Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me
PDF Hello my friends…
It’s so nice to be here, to discuss the subjects of narcissism and sociopathy.
I’d like to begin by asking each of you, one at a time, to tell us a little about me and what you hope to give me in our short time together?
Uh huh…hmmm…very interesting….
As we continue circling the room, if it’s alright with you, I’d like to hear a little less about you, and more about me?
Okay, now that we’re done with the introductions….
Let me formally begin by stating something fairly obvious: Narcissists and sociopaths are people you’ll want to avoid. Does this make sense? Are we in unanimity about this?
By the way, I want you to feel free during this presentation, at any point, to stretch my legs and get me a cup of coffee, to ensure my good circulation and alertness? (Incidentally, I like my coffee light with six sugars.)
My friends (and no, I’m not John McCain), I wonder whether any of you, right now, can look yourselves in the mirror and honestly say that you are completely attuned to me and, more important, humbled by the vast expertise I bring to this subject matter?
But I digress….we are here, after all, to discuss me, not narcissists and sociopaths. (Excuse, I meant that the other way around!)
The gentleman over there, yawning, who is texting as I speak? You must be a sociopath, sir; or, at a minimum, a deranged narcissist, to have the gall to enter my audience and so blatantly disrespect me!
I’d suggest, sir, that you think less about that text message and more about the insulting message you send me with your contemptuous behavior?
By the way, my friends, I point that man out over there not to single him out and shame him gratuitously, but rather to identify live, spontaneous examples of narcissism and sociopathy right before your eyes.
Remember, my friends, by some estimates upwards of 4% of the general population are sociopaths! I believe that estimate comes from Martha Stout who, for purposes of her book sales (The Sociopath Next Door) lobbied for 26% as the figure, but after a noisy fight deferred to her publisher’s attorneys.
By my math, this means that, conservatively, at least four of you in the audience are clinical sociopaths. Well, I believe I’ve exposed the first!
Sir, sit down…where are you going? You can’t leave!! Sit back down, sir!!
Excuse me? You’re outraged? Did you say you were “outraged?”
Did you hear that, folks?
Listen to me, you arrogant jerk! Sit back down!!
You’re lucky I didn’t call security on you already for disrupting my presentation with your text messaging!! Now you compound your rudeness by deigning to escape with the blithe impudence of a sociopath?
My friends…this is the narcissist’s (or in his case, more likely the sociopath’s) contempt on full, alarming display!
Let me tell you something, sir, if I wasn’t so consumed with who I am, I’d be more interested to know who you are, if only to use my clout to ensure that you are permanently banned from all continuing education seminars—not just mine—in perpetuity!
You scoff, sir?
There it is…right there, my friends. Again…notice the contempt! See it for yourselves.
Fine…let him leave. We’re better off without him.
Now where were we?
Oh yes…just a reminder…we will break for lunch at 12 and I’d like you back no later than by 12:10.
That should give you enough time to scarf something down, and prepare for the brilliant material to come this afternoon.
And by the way, in order to avoid the congestion of those of you trying to crash my dining-room table to lunch with me, I will draw, in advance of our lunch-break, five names from a hat to establish who my dining table-mates will be.
This will be a random drawing, and I must warn you that I am not open to bribes, although I will note that those of you who buy my books—especially many of them—in the next hour or so, in the hall right outside this conference room, can expect special consideration.
Excellent…excellent.
The narcissist and sociopath…
Who are these individuals, my friends?
The scary thing is that they are our friends, our family, our colleagues, our doctors, our lawyers, our stockbrokers, our mates, and most chilling, our mail-carriers.
What else do we know about them?
We know that individuals with these warped personalities tend to regard others as “objects.”
As a matter of fact, if you leave here with nothing else, with, let us say, just a single, critical concept, let it be this: I know what I’m talking about.
As I was saying, these deviant individuals treat others not like individuals, but like objects. Remember this, because the implication is paramount: when you view others as a something, instead of a someone, it becomes easier to treat that person as a thing, not a person.
Hey you! Over there! Yeah, you! What are you, deaf? Do me a favor and turn the thermostat down, over there by the door. Yeah, right over there, by the door. Knock it down at least several degrees. I’m hot. Extremely hot.
Jesus Christ, yeah, you! That’s right…get up…out of your seat…then walk over to the wall, and jack the thermostat down. Get it, Einstein?
We know, by the way, that the narcissist will have little genuine interest in your experience while being pretty much entirely consumed in his…and his comfort.
What, people? You’re cold? That’s ridiculous. How can you be cold? You must be hallucinating! Because it’s hot in here! Nobody in their right minds could be cold when it’s so obviously, intolerably hot and stuffy in here.
Excuse me?
I’m invalidating your experience?
Sweetheart, what hypersensitivity drugs are you on? I’m merely stating an undeniable fact.
What? Don’t call you sweetheart?
Jesus, is this a feminist convention, or a continuing education seminar?
By the way, nobody touch the thermostat now that that cretin over there finally figured out how to adjust it.
I’m just kidding, calling you a cretin. God, you’re a hypersensitive crowd.
But seriously, if anyone so much as dares mess with the thermostat, you’re asking to see a side of me I’d prefer not to reveal.
My friends, sociopaths are fascinating creatures.
My god, have you ever had someone lie to your face, someone who makes an art form of lying convincingly, regardless of his patent guilt, for whom the very act of lying audaciously is a form of entertainment, satisfaction?
What I’m saying, my friends, is that, for the sociopath, the payoff is often the getting away with something; it is often the thrill of the game; the thrill of perpetrating fraud against others!
Come again? My doctorate? Are you questioning my credentials?
Read my lips and look into my eyes, and tell me if I’m lying: My doctorate is legitimate.
How dare you insinuate otherwise!
As the blurb on the seminar brochure says, I graduated at the top of my class from the College of America in 1985, with a Ph.D., MD., and JD. That makes me a psychologist, medical doctor, and lawyer—in other words, someone you don’t wanna mess with.
Now let me go a step further, as I look every single one of you in the eye from my podium: Not only are my doctorates legitimate, but so is everything in my biography.
That’s right, I dare any one of you to disprove a single assertion in my biography, including my claims to have studied closely with Carl Rogers, Gordon Allport, and Louis Pasteur.
Sure, I’m smiling. I’m smiling from the enviable position of a man who knows that he’s betrayed (excuse me, I meant conveyed) his integrity.
That was a Fraudian slip, people. Excuse me, I meant Freudian…that was a wholly innocent mistake. Don’t even go there.
Grandiosity…grandiosity. Let me look at my notes on grandiosity.
The narcissist and sociopath often have serious grandiosity issues….hmmm.
Speaking of grandiosity, I routinely like to humble the clinicians I supervise by sharing the story of how Rogers—that’s right, Carl Rogers—once told me, “Len, you’re my favorite. You’re my favorite student. My most brilliant student. You will carry my work forward.”
Yes, this story tends to curb my students’ grandiosity.
You’re all shaking your heads…in appropriate awe, no doubt?
My friends, for the narcissist, even more than the sociopath, his grandiosity is a defense. The narcissist requires, like an addict, the experience and perception of himself as special, as above others.
Unless the narcissist is catered to, and treated as a sort of celebrity, he feels depressed, worthless, which typically takes the form of his anger and rage.
You two!! Knock it off!! How dare you whisper to each other while I’m speaking!!
Do I need to remind you people that I don’t have to be here. Don’t you get that? I don’t have to be here, people. You do; I don’t.
Last warning; this is my last warning. You people really are testing my patience.
Where was I, before your latest rude disturbance?
Anyway, I’ll tell you an interesting, and perhaps even edifying, story.
Once upon a time there was a married couple. And the wife periodically confronted the husband, “You know what? You’re a goddamned psychopath. That’s what you are. You put on a good front for the public. But make no mistake, you’re a masquerader. I know your deal. You’re a psychopath. And I’m gonna let people know. I’m no longer going to suffer your abuse in silence.”
And the husband laughed with great contempt, because he had great contempt for his wife. And he appreciated neither her scathing tone, boldness, nor, of course, her threat.
And the very next day the wife went missing. And was never to be found.
And the husband told each of his subsequent wives, of whom there were successively three, that they could never measure up to the first, his missing wife.
He’d probably never get over her loss, he’d tell them, with watering eyes.
His undiminished love for her, his first wife, probably was, he’d admit tearfully, holding him back. But he couldn’t help that, of course. His missing wife, after all, was the love of his life, and so maybe he was, he’d suggest, simply too scarred to ever get over it.
And his seeming vulnerability and seeming raw, emotional honesty made it much harder for his later wives to hold him accountable.
Why do I tell you this story, my friends?
Is it my story?
Not really. I know where my wife went…I’m convinced she returned to her family somewhere in eastern Mississippi where, I believe, she assumed a new identity and hence as if just dropped off the face of the earth.
Oh no, my wife is alive and well somewhere…she just doesn’t want anyone from her past to know about it.
I know exactly what you’re thinking, my friends: She, not I, is the psychopath?
You are a good crowd, very shrewd…yes you are.
And her successful disappearance proves just that, does it not? That she, not I, is the psychopath!
After all, only a psychopath, my friends, can just up one day, abandon her family, disappear permanently, and unconscionably leave a cloud of suspicion hanging over her betrayed husband!
Forgive me my tears….I’m a very emotional man who, as you can see, has very deep feelings about this, still.
God, I miss her…that woman.
And every day I tell my kids, who are still young, “Don’t worry…she won’t be coming home…” Excuse me, that was another Fraudian slip…I meant to say I tell them, “Don’t worry, children…someday, when mama’s ready, she’ll reach out…and announce herself again…meanwhile, you must ignore those scurrilous, persistent rumors that have hounded me all your lives, rumors of my…uh…‘involvement’ in your mother’s disappearance?”
I don’t mean to spin off on this, my friends, but you understand, don’t you, that that student intern with whom I took up just prior to my wife’s disappearance…you do realize that the timing of that was, of course, entirely coincidental?
It’s a funny thing, my friends, how in this cynical age we live in, nobody believes in coincidence anymore. How sad…how jaded…how tragic.
Where was I?
Sociopaths…yes, sociopaths are eternally intriguing personalities, my friends.
My friends, we are nearing time for a bathroom break. That is because, naturally, I have to go to the bathroom.
Before we break, and please be ready to resume promptly in no later than 40 seconds, I want to say something about the legendary psychopathy clinician Hervey Cleckley. Cleckley, you know, wrote the classic on psychopaths called “The Mask Of Sanity.”
If you haven’t yet read it, although it now costs about $850 for a used copy, you’re an idiot.
Anyway, I should tell you I was supervised by Dr. Cleckley himself as part of my externship right out of the University of Alabama. I sought Dr. Cleckley out myself, on my own initiative, and let me just say that after we spoke privately in his home office for exactly half an hour, he said, and I quote, “Young man, you are clearly a gifted young clinician. I was unprepared to take on another disciple, but I must say, now that I’ve met you, I wouldn’t think of missing the opportunity. By the way, have you read all six editions of my book?”
I answered, “No, Dr. Cleckley, just the five,” impressing him that I wouldn’t fall for his trick question (the sixth edition wouldn’t appear for some years later, until after his death).
As an aside, you might be interested to know that Dr. Cleckley referenced me frequently in his lectures to other psychiatrists and psychologists, referring to me as “my protégé Len.”
Who’s laughing?
You! Over there! Stand up!
My friends, here you have Exhibit A, standing naked before you, of insecurity, compensation, and envy!!
Your laughter, young man, is obviously a compensation…a compensation for the shame you undoubtedly feel at lacking the ability to grasp—to even begin to grasp—the profundity of my clinical wisdom and the intimidating gravity of my experience. This is all transparently obvious, young man. You are a fool.
I’ll tell you what, my friends. Let’s end this lecture, for the present, right here. It seems as good a moment as any. Besides the call of my bladder, I’m feeling some hunger pangs of surprising intensity and tenacity.
It is now 10:55; let’s reconvene no later than 11:05.
Remember, my books are displayed in the hall outside the room. My assistant Connie will be happy to assist your purchases.
Finally, it’s possible that, if we manage to cover the afternoon material efficiently enough and….if you should happen to clear the table of my books for sale, I may consider ending the seminar a little early?
Enjoy your lunch.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
Matt says:
lostinfear:
You are in the right place to figure out what you are dealing with and getting away from it.
Things that jumped out at me — his blaming you for his blood pressure, his abusing you, his throwing you the occasional crumb so you think things are better and then they get worse again (push-pull behavior) — all are classic sociopathic behavior.
You don’t need a new fight to leave — you alcready have plenty of reasons to leave. The hardest step is for you to finally take control and cut him off. And thact is where no contact comes in. Your wish for no drama from him is magical thinking. It is always ugly with these creatures. But, it does get better. You have to cut them off cold — emotionally, financially, every way.
The one thing I learned at the time I drove S off was that to get rid of a sociopath, become a sociopath. That means you have to shut off all your emotions toward him and focus solely on you.
Knowledge is power. Read the archives. Also the books “Without Conscience” by Robert Hare, “The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout and “Women Who Love Sociopaths”.
t
EVerybody on this site knows well the path you are just stepping onto. We are from all walks of life. Some people are far down the path, others somewhere on the middle, others just stepping onto it. The path I am talking about is healing.
Healing. That is what you have to focus on. Your healing. His problems can no longer be your problems.
Speaking as a lawyer, since your fear of physical harm sounds well-founded I would contact your local women’s abuse helpline. They can steer you toward resources that can be used to protect you. Since he lives out of state, there may be federal statutes that come into play.
Again, NC (no contact) is your only alternative to drive this non-human vehicle of discord from our life. There is no reasoning with them. No easing them out of the relationship. They only way you can get him out of your life is NC.
It’s a tough road, getting rid of and over a sociopath, but a road worth taking. Welcome.
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Jen2008 says:
Lostinfear,
You already have an excuse to go no contact. Sounds like he is playing to your guilt, that if you break it off and he offs himself or others it will be your fault. My advice would be to bow out of the drama with the other woman, and just use the reasons you already have to break it off with the guy. Then don’t accept any form of contact from him whatsoever so he can’t manipulate you into feeling guilty.
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Jen2008 says:
Lostingrief,
I just wanted to add I do understand where you are coming from though in feeling like you need a “new fight” to walk away. I went through that myself, but each time a new fight came along and I would try to break away, I would allow myself to get sucked back in, then I’d wait for another “reason” and on and on and on–a coupla zillion reasons or excuses later, I was still involved with the guy.
But the sad thing was there was “reasons” all the time, because even when things were seemingly going “well”, they were actually pretty bad. It just seemed like things were going “well” when I compared those times to the REALLY bad times. When I finally made my final break, there was no big blow up that gave me an “excuse”. I just made the decision I had had enough and I did it. And yeah, all hell broke loose, complete with threats, but I survived it.
And really, you have a pretty good advantage over him that is in your favor in dealing with him since you live in another state from him, thus there is distance between you. But still, once you make the break, take precautions. –Jen
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Lostinfear,
Welcome to LoveFraud. I’m sorry you have to be here, but you’ve come to the right place. We’ve all been through it.
If you click here — http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....ng-speech/ — you’ll find an article by DrSteve on the way sociopaths talk. You might find it interesting. I think there might be another one somewhere about “gaslighting.” That would also be good for you to read.
If no one has mentioned it so far, visiting the blog archive and reading some of the articles can be helpful. You don’t have to go through all the blogging under them (though there’s a lot of good stuff there too). But the articles can give you a lot of information about what you’re dealing with, and how to handle yourself.
What you describe is classic sociopath behavior. Not all of them are physically violent, but if your is threatening physical violence, you should take it seriously. All of them are verbally abusive, in the sense that they threaten, belittle, and try to make themselves powerful and us afraid.
The reason “no contact” is so important is two-fold. One is to give you a chance to start detoxing from the controlling input. The other is to stop giving him a way to get back into your life and your head.
It’s great that you want to get him out of your life. And even better that you found us. That’s what we’re all doing — extricating ourselves from these relationships and getting over it.
We’ve all been through it. We’re totally sympathetic. You deserve better than this.
Kathy
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Stargazer says:
Jen, thank you so kindly for the attention I’m getting here that I so rightfully deserve! ROFLMAO! Is it so selfish of me to want a thread all for myself? (Oh yeah, I guess that’s the very definition of selfishness, isn’t it? ha ha ha ha). Your image of me isn’t too far off. Except that I recently had to cut my hair to shoulder length because it is thinning. And also I bought a Victoria Beckham (Posh Spice) wig that is very short and totally changed my image. I really wish we could all exchange photos. I’d be glad to give you a link to my pics on the former dating site, but I’d want to see what you all look like as well!
Jen, I’d be glad to star in your erotica. I’m certainly not getting any action in my real life. LOL I actually have done some writing myself, about a time when I was a private exotic dancer. Makes for some pretty interesting reading, and maybe some day it will be published.
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Stargazer says:
Okay, back to business: Lostinfear, welcome to the community first of all. What are you afraid of if you just cut him out of your life? Are you afraid of physical violence, of losing him, or of him hurting himself and you feeling responsible for it? It sometimes helps to identify what the thread is that keeps you tangled in the web. Sounds like you know he is a sociopath. Sure sounds sociopathic to me. You know, it’s really okay to just walk away. You don’t owe him anything. You have a right to save yourself and get out of that situation. You don’t ever have to say another word to him. When I left my sociopath, I asked him not to ever contact me again. Then I walked and never looked back. Best thing I ever did in 2008.
Blessings to you.
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learnthelesson says:
Jen/Star – Might wanna hold off on those pictures… As Entertainment Coordinator of the 1ST ANNUAL LF CONVENTION (which I voted on and elected myself… this is the me, me, me thread , right?!…. I thought we would do a fun game at the convention!
Name that LF BLOGGER! We all bring a picture of ourselves and each get a shot at matching the names with the faces! (Jen and Star the photos must be pg/ not erotica style…thx!) And whoever gets the most amount correct – wins the award…a real live picture of themselves on Fat or Hairy with Oxy on the back waving her golden skillet!!!
This of course will take place prior to Kathy hooking up an IV to Steve with a drip bag of Vodka…and prior to Henrys Dirty Joke Act…so nobody leaves….(kidding Henry)lol…
…Maybe we will start the festivities with Name that LF BLOGGER!!! If you have any suggestions keep them to yourself because in case you didnt get the memo…Im running the show!!!!
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Stargazer says:
Ha ha ha ha, learnthelesson!!!! No worries about me posting erotic pictures of myself. I am 48 now, so they’d first have to be photoshopped. Oxy better come back soon. It will take her forever to catch up on all these posts.
You guys are so wonderful. I have so much warmth for all of you, including the newcomers, too. Newcomers don’t realize what a wonderful family they have stumbled onto!
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Stargazer says:
We could also play LF Scrabble, using such words as “extox”, “towanda” and “skillet”. LOLOLOL
You are all welcome to visit at my humble condo in Denver before I go into foreclosure. I recently purchased some extremely comfortable italian leather furniture off of Craig’s list in the event that I should ever have a big party. If I ever end up homeless, at least I’ll have a nice sofa to sleep on in the street. LOL
I’m serious about my offer.
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learnthelesson says:
LF Scrabble “Oxyish” “NC” that would be an acceptable word its in the LF Dictionary!! oh and what was the really popular screenname that came across the posts .. we all got a big kick out of it!! Cant remember, cant see, cant type lol…
Star – I have family in Denver – I will def have coffee or a cosmo with you when I visit…either on your couch in your livingroom or on your couch on curb at the Garden of the Gods!!
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OxDrover says:
I’M BACK GUYS!!!!!!!
WOW! Talk about WITHDRAWLS from ADDICTIONS—the first day I cleaned house for 8 straight hours!!!!
The old computer DIED, the “black screen of death” but my son, the great “faith healer” laid hands on it and PRESTO, he raised it from the dead!!! He also walks ABOVE WATER not just on it!!!! (at least I think he does!) Got it back up last night but waited to get on til I got a FULL Current back up done! So, am back! I have been reading as much as I can between chores, but sure was frustrated to not be able to post!!!
You guys have had some great comments and advice!!!! It does me old heart good to see so much great insight and healing and support going on!!!!
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learnthelesson says:
Welcome Home Oxy !!! Heres the skillet back. WOW!!! How in the world do you do it!!!!
Hugs to ya, MISSED ya.. We all tried to hold down the fort while you were gone…and I even got to boink Henry (flirtatiously) and was thinking about stealing him from you — but thought that would be way too awkward when you returned 
) Now all we need is Jim unless he summoned for the princess to join him permanently in Scotland !! 
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OxDrover says:
Dear Learned,
Thank you for taking care of the skillet, and for keeping Henry in line with it. Henry is a hard one to keep in line, sometimes, anyway! LOL Poor guy, his head is almost flat by now I am sure!!!
Yes, he is a flirtatious guy, and our “romance” is off again, on again sometimes when I start flirting with someone else, but you know how that goes with these handsome dudes and dudettes! ha ha
The best thing about today is that I got back to LF again! You guys have been busy with some great posts. Today was kind of a “downer” for me as I had a quarrel with an old friend of mine over a broken promise. Not a P relationship thing at all, totally a “normal” thing….but plenty of projection on his part and righteous indignation on my part.
It is funny, I almost looked at it from a point outside of myself. It is odd how a “disagreement” between two people (who are NOT Ps) can have some of the same elements of a quarrel with the Ps.
I also, like Kathleen talked about the quarrel she had with her friend who was being negative about her behind her back, I saw where his defensiveness was coming from. He had been married to two Ps. Any “accusation” from a woman of him “not being 100% honest” (breaking a promise) sent him into a blind defensive position, striking out and projecting all the things he “though read” that I was “saying” (I didn’t say any of them with my mouth, or even think them, but he projected those thoughts and feelings and TOLD ME HOW I FELT.)
Of course, he is not a mind reader, and I tried to focus the discussion on the BROKEN PROMISE (which disappointed me in him). “Listening” to what he was saying and projecting, though, was very interesting, given his back ground with two marriages (totaling over 30 years between them) to two P women. He really wasn’t responding to ME, He was responding to THEM and their accusations against him, their blame placing on to him.
It was all unnecessary drama and over something “minor” really, but because I stood up for myself and told him how I felt, he became VERY defensive and aggressive (not physically). I guess a friendship of 25+ years is probably down the tubes, and I AM sorry for that, but at the same time, I ‘HAVE SOME ISSUES” about people who don’t keep their word to others, who try to “weasle” out of a promise at someone else’s expense. My friend isn’t a “bad man,” by any means, but he was not considerate of me, my wishes, or respectful of the promise he made me. When I confronted him about this, he did not respond well, but instead responded poorly. I realize that part of the reason he responded so poorly was the past experience he had with his x-wives (Ps both!) So though my anger at him shouting at me and calling me a “Liar” and a few other not so nice names is gone, I’m not sure at this point that I even want the friendship to continue unless he is willing to acknowledge his broken promise, and show some growth about changing his behavior. Will see what happens, if anything. The good thing though, is that I am willing to let the relationship go rather than just “suck it up” when someone disrespects me, and swallow the anger and enable them to “pull a fast one” on me, and not have it acknowledged or confronted—but with a sincere caring and tact. If they don’t respond to that, not my problem.
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henry says:
OK OXY – Good to see you back, we have been having some fun talking about you…I have been staying in line….and blogging too much as always – but hey it’s free therapy, what can I say…too much I am sure…you guy’s know more about me and my (blissful romance) than you prolly want to know..LOL I figured you would sell Fat and Hairy and buy you a new puter if your son couldnt get the old one fixed… Hey we are expecting a huge snow storm here friday – some parts of the state mite get 20 inches of snow – can you believe that? Every thing is up and blooming and now I have to go cover my mater’s………
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Wini says:
Henry, Henry, Henry … I’ll buy you a broom so you can sweep your huge snow storm away. That’s if the sun doesn’t melt the few flakes first!
You folks down there have no clue what SNOW is.
LOL.
Peace.
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Stargazer says:
Yay!!! Oxy is back!!!! If ever a name was mentioned over and over around here…….. We invented a new word: oxyish. And we added it to the Scrabble dictionary.
I started to say sorry to hear about your 25-year friendship. But really I’m not sorry because if you speak your truth and demand respect, and he cannot treat you with respect, he does not deserve to be in your life. In my experience, as I’ve gotten stronger, many so-called “friends” have dropped off along the way, and this has left room for some better quality people. Remember the massage client I was so ambivalent about? My life is so much more peaceful without her in it. But at the time, I didn’t want to throw away the frienship we’d developed (or so that’s what I thought it was). I go through similar stuff with my mom, Oxy, and it tears me up sometimes. But I feel that as we get stronger, we become like mirrors, reflecting to people what they need to see. A mirror does not bend forward or backwards. We can stand without giving in too much or being angry. Just speaking the truth. It is up to others how they want to deal with that.
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Stargazer says:
Learnthelesson, you should definitely drop by. But we won’t be going to Garden of the Gods because that’s in the town where my extox lives! Of all the places………lol
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OxDrover says:
Well, last year we had a huge wet snow storm in April…two years ago it FROZE big time after the oak leaves were the size of your palm and it is SUPPOSEd to be “freezes over” by the time the Oak leaves are the size of a squirrel’s ear (so you can plant your corn) CRAZY weather!
Nah, I would NOT sell Fat and Hairy, maybe rent my kids out or something, but NEVER sell the “boys”—they’re my buddies!
Not sure what the heck was wrong with the ‘puter, it really did “faith heal” (I used to have a TV like that, that would “faith heal” when the repairman came, and as soon as he left it went back to acting crazy) But it is working fine now. I did hook up one of my son’s so I could read on line, just not post. BUT I DID GET THE HOUSE CLEANED on a rainy day, no LF so had to clean! My sons said they are going to steal the cords so I will clean more often inside the house, I’d actually rather be outside working, but it was raining those days!
Star, I did get a BIT upset (tearful and hurt and somewhat angry) over my old friend’s behavior, but at the same time, I do feel A) that I was justified in not appreciating a broken promise B) I was willing to give him a chance to acknowledge it and we could work it out. However, I am NOT going to let his behavior ruin my life. I am sorry he responded that way, but that was HIS CHOICE. I even understand a bit about why he responded that way, but MY Choice is not to “walk on eggshells” when people don’t keep their word, afraid to “upset” them, but letting them upset ME. It is about boundaries.
There’s no “formula” for setting boundaries, unfortunately, as each case, each situation, each person requires a different way of doing things. I can be understanding about him, but it doesn’t mean that I want a repeat of that behavior, or that I will just “pretend it didn’t happen”–it DID happen, and I wanted to sort through it in a “friend-like” way, and I actually think he doesn’t know how. In all our years of friendship we have never really had a serious disagreement/argument of any kind. This was a first. (and who knows, maybe a last) I am really more disappointed in the nasty way he “fought” (name calling etc) than even in the broken promise.
At least though, I AM getting to the point in life I can get through these “drama-ramas” with NON-disordered people and not get upset for a month. When you are “low on fuel” even a little hill to climb like this depletes your stores of energy completely. As you said, Star, as we get “stronger” and have more “reserve” energy we can get back up more easily when we stumble over a rock on the “road to Healing.”
I CAN look myself in the mirror and say “I stood up for myself, in an HONORABLE and adult way, and am not ashamed of the way I behaved at all.” That is important to me that I BEHAVE APPROPRIATELY even if someone else doesn’t. It doesn’t mean I can’t confront them, though. Just in an honorable and good way. If that “way” is NC, that’s okay too.
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learnthelesson says:
OXY – Sorry to learn of your bummer day with your friend. I was just going to respond to your post and good thing I scrolled down first and was able to read you second post — or I would have repeated all the same advice that you already positively concluded for yourself.
The most important lesson in your story for me is we must do whats right for us in the moment, and trust ourselves with what what are feeling. As long as there is no impulsiveness, bad selfishness, deceit or harm involved. It doesnt matter if disordered on non-disordered we can never again make excuses or ignore red flags. (just because you have knowledge that he had 2 prior P relationships and could conclude why he was reacting the way was — BRAVO for you – for not justifying it!!!) Repeat after me: When we ignore red flags we eventually will find ourselves back in the bottomless pit of dysfunctional relationships.
I actually do think there is a “formula” for setting boundaries! Its
CONSISTENT SELF-TRUST, SELF-RESPECT, SELF-LUV, SELF-VALUE…EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY – EXPECT OTHERS TO TREAT YOU THE WAY YOU TREAT YOURSELF. A MATURE RESPONSIBLE ADULT.
And lastly as long as we approach any uncomfortable situation with our real friends with compassionate awareness – and open communication – and it is reciprocated then the friendship is strong.
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learnthelesson says:
I would like to add a few thoughts to what Star so insightfully shared about it being time for us to make our choices and become more mature responsible adults! Im not sure what thread its on, so Im posting here.
This is for one year healing journey veterans or those feeling very close to Poof Place….(when you want them out of your head – after you have gone through the healing process/stages) something I would like to share…
Really for any of us at, near or over the one year mark of NC – first really give yourselves huge accolades – its a feat in and of itself that must be acknowledged! And those of us anywhere from one day of NC to several months – we must acknowledge the progress and pat ourselves on the back each and every day!! and recognize how important it is to take back healthy control of our lives via NC!!!!!!!
At any point any one of us can do this — but at or around the one year mark – I personally have to start to understand that this is no longer about the bad man, the bad memories, the bad story. This is now seriously becoming about ME, ALL OVER AGAIN, MY CHOICES, MY COMFORT LEVEL WITH HANGING OUT WITH THE BAD MAN IN MY HEAD, IN MY THOUGHTS, IN MY DAILY ROUTINE. Franklly it now will become a RED FLAG for myself everytime I let him into my head – it will be time to seriously start to put that happening and responsibility on myself. Because at some point it becomes a comfortable distraction – one that I want gone.
Coming to LF and sharing, and helping others is a different story. And one that offers solace and comfort in moderation. I can accept that. And after we have had many many months to share our hurt and pain – at some point we have to get tough with ourselves and eachother – or we are only treating ourselves and eachother the way we treated the S. Making excuses, saying its ok, allowing ourselves to stay in this place, telling ourselves one thing and doing another….it equates to as Star said not really putting boundaries in place FOR OURSELVES WITH OURSELVES.
Such as. thoughts pop up out of the blue ( not because he is there in the room with us anymore — but because we were either triggered by something or bored or stressed or still in pain) doesnt matter what the reason is!!! Point being the fact its over a year and he is still in our head is our own personal red flag — stop and change direction (change thoughts – take control – do something about it ourselves! Or at the very least we must TRY! And then SHARE here how we did it!
Example – I had a trigger when Rascal Flatts released there new song— Here Comes Goodbye…. MUSIC is the single most weakest trigger I have – our running joke was how many times I actually said Goodbye to him. He would always jokingly add to my goodbye a number to it …think it got to 1,250 ! lol…. I just wanted to text him last week when I heard that song… I was down and out for the count last week as soon as I heard it- all that progress I had made and I was literally pulled over off road crying uncontrollably – BECAUSE I MADE THE CHOICE TO, I GAVE IN TO MY EMOTIONS AND LET ER RIP…AND I CAN CHOOSE TO DO THAT FOR THE REST OF MY DAYS…AND IF I DONT START TO RED FLAG MYSELF – THEN THATS GOING TO BE ME FOR THE REST OF MY DAYS. ROADSIDE EVERY DAMN TIME. DUH ME. ITS UP TO ME, SERIOUSLY, ITS UP TO ME. SO I NOW CHOOSE TO SMILE – I CHOOSE TO SMILE WHEN I HEAR THE SONG. I CHOOSE TO – KEY WORDS. I CHOOSE TO . I EXPECT MYSELF TO BE ABLE TO MAKE CHOICES THAT BENEFIT MY HEALTH AND WELL BEING. WILL I FALL SOMETIMES? YES…BUT MORE TIMES THAN NOT ILL BE PROGRESSING IN MY HEALING PROCESS BECAUSE I CHOOSE TO PUT MY WORDS INTO ACTION AND TRUST MYSELF AND NOT LET MYSELF DOWN. I CHOOSE TO MAKE BETTER CHOICES WITH MYSELF – FOR MYSELF. NO BARGAINING, NO ONE MORE CHANCE, NO MORE DWELLING — TIME TO GET BACK TO NOT JUST LIVING BUT LIVING WELL. MAKING STRONG BOLD CHOICES WITH ME, FOR ME. ITS JUST TIME TO DO IT AND GET IT RIGHT. RED FLAG OURSELVES STOP AND CHANGE DIRECTION WITH OURSELVES OUR THOUGHTS.
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OxDrover says:
What I meant, learned, about each situation about setting boundaries is “different” is that sometimes with some people, you know off hand that they will NOT respect your boundaries so setting them is a waste of time so instead of confronting them or their behavior (again, depending on the situation) you just “fade out” of those people’s lives without any confrontation. I am doing that now with a woman I know now is a HARD CORE game player—no confrontation because it would NOT do any good, just faaaaaddddeeeee away.
I actually thought with my friend that I could DISCUSS his broken promise, but turned out I was WRONG. He reacted, over reacted, really, very defensively, and I understand WHY (most likely anyway) but I took a risk of losing the friendship when I had set the BOUNDARY and confronted his broken promise. The broken promise wasn’t even over a “big deal” really, but it was a thing that GREATLY inconvenienced me and cost me about $50 bucks. It also suprised me that he would even CONSIDER breaking a promise to me, much less doing it, and then rationalizing that he hadn’t “broken it” just CHANGED IT. LOL In retrospect though, I should have realized how he would respond and not been so “shocked” at his response. I would have done the same thing though, even if I had known before hand how he would respond, I would have confronted it, but having confronted it, witnessed his inappropriate behavior (both for breaking the promise in the first place) then trying to JUSTIFY it afterwards, I’m not all that broken up about the “loss” of the “friendship.” If someone would treat me this way, then they didn’t really put much of a value on our “friendship” even though it was of long duration. We had never had a cross word in our decades long relationship, which was just “buddies” with a lot of the same interests. I obviously cared more about the relationship than he did, but that happens. So really all I “lost” was MY perceptions of how “valuable” I was to him. $50 bucks was my “value.” A cheap lesson in the end for me. He isn’t a psychopath or even a “bad” person. He has a moral compass, but he can manipulate it somewhat (as we all can) to justify his behavior to himself somewhat. Some things he said to my sons after our verbal quarrel (out of my hearing) though, make me think he realizes he was an A$$…and if I did ever mean anything to him as a friend, he will “make it right” but if not, that’s okay too. We all have choices and make them to meet our own needs. If his “need” to be “right” and to not acknowledge his own poor behavior is paramount in his heart, he will hang on to that to justify how he treated me, or he will come and apologize sincerely. Whichever is up to him and the ball is in his court. I did what I had said I would do. I kept MY part of the bargain (at the expense of $50) even though I might have been “justified” in not keeping my promise because he renigged on his–but I pride myself on doing what is RIGHT in a situation (keeping promises) even when others don’t. Them being an A$$ doesn’t justify me acting badly.
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lostinfear says:
Just wanted to say thanks for the words of advice from my previous blog. I am so torn in this but I guess that is a normal feeling for the beggining of this journey. Why can’t he just want to leave me so then I can just easily walk away. Why do I still feel the need to hear promises, lies, manipulation, guilt and even the emotional abuse and stay connected to him. I saw a therapist today to help me with ME. Maybe with her I can see why I feel so little of myself. Why I let the lil good times we have out way all the questions, lies and disbeliefs I have regarding the relationship. He is sooooo good with the guilt. How is life is so good now, he is finally eating and getting rest (that is said when I finally chose to speak to him) then its back to the I dont eat, sleep and I cant work words. How can you do this to me, I thought you were a christian woman, how can you chose to believe what someone else tells you (mind you the “other woman” has had much proof) I am going to continue to read articles on this site and blogs as well and maybe I will begin to learn more of you and learn how to be strong on my own and know that what I have is not the real thing but just something that was painted in my head.
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lostinfear says:
Also, I have a question. I am reading here that they take your wallet and everything in it. Well, actually he pays for things and has helped me along the way with bills and such when needed. BUT I must say it is used against me with the guilt as to “After all I do for you or All the money I spent, all the this time spent…and so on. Does that not make him this type of person talked about here or does it just make him a lil different of one.
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muldoon. says:
Just to say Hi..still alive lol…nah seriously, things are ok, but as predicted I live on the knife edge, thinking hard before I speak, wondering if this is the day something I say sets him over the edge…Early days yet, still waiting diagnosis of my lump and weight loss. He has been here since the 28th Feb, so far only three hair raising days, one assault and a couple of screaming fits (him not me lol)He is when he rememebrs attentive and dare I say cioncerned, but whereas before I thought ye3s its all going to be ok, I cannot help but see the insincerity of his words, I see the words are not heart felt, they are placatory and what he thinks I want or need to hear, the words no longer do it. I know I have made a mistake and in time I will bitterly regret it if I survive, but I dont know how to undo what I have done.
Regards to all..
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OxDrover says:
Dear Lost in fear,
They don’t all TAKE money, sometimes they give it as sort of a “payment” or “bribe” to get you to do what else it is that they want….but they do NOT give gifts, they use it as a control mechanisim. “Beware Greeks bearing gifts” is an old saying that any “gift” is not a “gift” but a bribe and you will PAY WITH YOUR BLOOD for it. Your self respect, your esteem, etc.
GET AWAY FROM HIM, the “after all I have done for you” guilt trip is nothing but a way to control you. YOU DO NOT OWE HIM ANYTHING.
Muldoon, I hope your lump turns out okay, but whatever happens with THAT, I DO BELIEVE YOU KNOW HOW TO UNDO WHAT YOU HAVE DONE (letting him move back in). You go back to the beginning and tell him to get out, or YOU and the kids get out. You don’t stay with him. Whatever your “excuse” to be with him is, it doesn’t “hold water” and it never will. He will always abuse you, and the kids as well.
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Jen2008 says:
Lost in fear,
Oxy is right that they don’t all take your money. I just posted on another thread about how all con artist aren’t even sociopaths or psychopaths anyway. (still people to be avoided though). I read an article about this very thing by Katherine Ramsland, I believe it was, and she is a researcher, univ. prof, and also author of The Human Predator.
Muldoon said: “I cannot help but see the insincerity of his words, I see the words are not heart felt, they are placatory and what he thinks I want or need to hear, the words no longer do it. I know I have made a mistake…”————
Look, girlfriend, You’re Damn right you made a mistake. (just like I did all those times I allowed myself to get sucked back in)….Whereas you see the “words” are not heartfelt etc…WHAT I SEE is:
He has been here since the 28th Feb, so far only THREE hair raising days, ONE ASSAULT and a couple of SCREAMING fits (him not me)……………………so, there LESS than a MONTH and already all of the above!!! Sounds as if he is on his best behavior, eh? I know it is difficult Muldoon, but you really sounded sooooo much better when he was gone (once you had been posting here a little while). I really hope you find the strength to get him out of your life for good. I’ll try sending you some positive energy and prayers. –Jen
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learnthelesson says:
Muldoon –
Glad to hear from you Muldoon. No matter what happens, please keep posting and giving us updates on your health and progress (or I guess set backs, huh)
Lots of “tough love” is coming your way, Im assuming you may need it since your post was with mixed emotions about where you are in your life.
I thought I would show you a preview of whats to come down the road, if you keep staying in and with the mistake you say you know you are making.. Its a potential note to you from one of your kids one day…
Hi Mom…Just to say Hi..still alive on the outside. lol…seriously, things are ok, but as predicted I live on the knife edge, thinking hard before I speak, wondering if this is the day something I say sets him over the edge…so far only three hair raising days, one assault and a couple of screaming fits. He is when he rememebrs.. attentive and dare I say cioncerned, but whereas before I thought yess its all going to be ok, I cannot help but see the insincerity of his words, I see the words are not heart felt, they are placatory and what he thinks I want or need to hear, the words no longer do it. I know I have made a mistake and in time I will bitterly regret it if I survive, but I dont know how to undo what I have done. Love, me
Muldoon, if not for you…..consider doing it ….for your kids..
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OxDrover says:
Dear Muldoon,
I hope you are reading here again today! Learnthelesson is totally right, Muldoon, if you don’t get out of this relationship ASAP your girls are goniing to tell you the same things like the “Hi, Mom” paragraph that learned took out of the post you made.
The ONLY way to get a real life is to get away from them and stay away from them. I know you are most likely frightened by the wondering about the health issue, but he will make it worse not better. ((((hugs))))) I guess I am just an old “professional mom” but I do worry about you and your kids and how not only your life, but your kids’ lives will be negatively impacted if you keep on with this evil man. (((hugs))) and my prayers for you, sweetie!
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keeping_faith says:
lostinfear,
The XS didn’t take money from me. His generosity in terms of paying for things was overwhelming sometimes, mostly because I had not been used to it. he liked the show it put on for others. i.e. he sent a flower arrangement to my home after I broke up with him on a day he knew i had a house full of friends and relatives.
He took something more important….but i am working to gain it back. He took my ability to trust completely. he took my self esteem through abuse, his lies, his deceit. He took an innocense that i will probably never have back again. Hopefully this painful experience will make me stronger. it’s a long road. Get away from him now and cut your losses.
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teacher123 says:
Ok I know this is an old topic, but I have just been reading some of the old articles and posts. I wanted to share about narcissists not reading books as hummingbird 1418, hopeful, shabbychic2, and SocioFree commented about. The one I knew was a teacher, and claimed she doesn’t own a book. How stupid is that? According to her, her lifestyle was too adventurous to stop and read. Once in an email I was sharing to her that I was teaching my students about Mt. Vesuvius and Pompeii. She didn’t know what that was about. She was a Science teacher. I believe this woman also hit on everyone male and female alike. We had some openly lesbian teachers that also wanted to, or maybe were sleeping with her. She had everyone, principals, teachers of both sexes, and students all mesmerized by her charm and beauty. But she was so good at making me feel like she was interested only in me. Then she would withdraw and did the silent treatment even though our routine was to meet and talk every day. This did hurt and shame me as I had one very bad experience in college of a girl sleeping with me and very blantantly ignoring me to my face the next day. She was talking with my roommate on our bed, but acted like I was not even alive. I know this happens in college, but I had also just had a talk with her before we slept together about how I didn’t want this to change our relationship. So this type of behavior really hits me to the soul.
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geminigirl says:
Dear Learn the lesson,-re Music getting to you, and an old familiar song tipping you over the edge and starting you off crying,-I so relate to that. The one that gets me in every time, is “daydream believer’, by the Monkees. My little girl,{as she was then, around6 years old,couldnt say it right, and used to sing “Dreen dreen deliever!’, and she LOVED Mickey Dolenz. She is the daughter{now 43,} I havent seen in 17 years, still dont know why she froze me out. I only have to hear “daydream believer” on the radio, and Im a wash with tears.Takes me back to that dear wee chubby girl,with the blonde fringe, who adored her Mummy,-then.. Not any more, just memories.Gem.I guess we should be GLAD we can still feel!
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pollyannanomore says:
Ha ha! Excellent Steve – this just sums it up perfectly! What sublime arrogance. I love it when you get inside their heads – it gives us such a view that we were never able to get inside those sick relationships
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style1 says:
Well, that was interesting and makes me feel better about myself..
as I have grown and become more aware.. I am often that person exiting early..
at earlier times, I stayed too long at the fair…
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style1 says:
lostinfear..
Mine paid for things and bought me things..then towards the end threw it in my face…
they all have different MO’s with the outcome the same…
I felt that mine was doing what he did to disarm me so that I would let down my guard concerning my finances. he could tell that I had a good support system and that he would be revealed fast and that a woman like me does not give money to men.
So I never did let down my guard..
And in the beginning he said things like what is yours is mine and what is mine is yours.. but the deal is as it unfolded I realized that he had little but debt…
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lesson learned says:
LMAO!!
Way toooooooooooooooooooo true!!!
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