Emotional and psychological abusers: Coping with chaos and losing your balance
PDF By AlohaTraveler
I work at a children’s shelter. One day last summer, we were playing dodge ball with the children and it made me think about the Bad Man. When we play dodge ball, we divide the teams children against counselors. To play the game, we divide the basketball court in half with the mid line being the divide between territories and we use six balls. When the referee blows the whistle to start the game, balls begin flying in every direction, someone is “OUT!” and the heated arguments ensue (from the children of course, we adults keep our heads) about the rules and who threw what? Was their foot over the line? Was it before or after “TIME OUT” was called? Which player was “out” first? In other words, it is complete and total chaos. I hate when they defer to me and ask what I saw. Ummm … I saw people running all over the place and balls bouncing and then someone shouted “TIME OUT!” Whom that was, I don’t know. Which team was it that was tagged first? What color was the ball that made the first impact? Sheesh! This is hard. I am a terrible referee! I can’t process all this information at once. EXACTLY.
Mental Gymnastics otherwise known as “Being Kept Off Balance” or “Crazy Making”
This is how it was with the Bad Man. Complete and total chaos. “Balls” coming at me from every direction and constantly being told I crossed the line somewhere. Just like with children, the rules and the lines were changing all the time. Breaking the “rules” was totally unavoidable. I couldn’t keep anything straight. He claimed I yelled at him. Did I? I don’t remember that. He claimed I was “out of line” and “out of control.” Was I? I wasn’t sure. I admit I was upset. I admit I was hurt. I became confused in the midst of the chaos. There was so much coming at me!
At first, I reacted to everything. However, it didn’t take long before I stopped reacting because I didn’t know what to react to. I often woke up to tirades over email and the sheer volume of accusations were just completely mind boggling. Sometimes, I tried to understand where he was coming from. Other times, I attempted to apologize but for what, I was not sure. Apologies never worked anyway. Bad Man would say, “You didn’t even apologize for the RIGHT thing.” Or “You missed something in your apology.” If I asked, “What did I miss?” he would tell me, “I am NOT going there with you.” Okay.
After one or two episodes in which I dared to be angered by his outrageous attacks and accusations, I changed my tactic because being angry and arguing my side made things worse. I began to be very careful. I had a sense that he was taking apart my reality but at the time, I didn’t really have words for that. Instinctively, I started stepping ever so carefully. It was not because I thought I could avoid the attacks coming out of him. I gave that idea up quickly. I became careful and measured with my words and my tone because I wanted to be sure of whom I was being in the moment. If I was mad or outraged, then I would be unsure of what I said and how I said it. So, I became a ZEN master of sorts. I stayed in the moment. I was careful not to lose my head in anger or frustration. That way, I could be sure, at least for myself, that I had not been out of control. Not that this made any difference.
A big part of emotional/psychological abuse is something called “keeping the victim off balance.” The abuser is always changing his demands, his rules, his desires. You will know you are being abused in this way when you are trying with all your might to make your partner happy, nothing you do is good enough and “everything is your fault.” You will know you are being abused when you are in constant defense of your character. You will know you are being abused when you ask yourself, “If he hates everything about me, then why does he stay?”
Reality Show
When I was with the Bad Man, I started to wish that everything that was happening between us was being recorded. That way, I could go back to the tapes when he started rewriting history to suit himself. I often asked myself, “How could he possibly say that is what happened?” If this sounds familiar, it’s a sure sign that you were deep in the throes of “Crazy Making.” As you start to doubt yourself, you begin to feel as if you are losing your mind. An Abuser’s version of what happened will be fixed like super glue with no room to budge an inch. Not one. This nearly drove me mad! The Bad Man was always imagining himself as the victim of me! And no amount of talking could convince him that he had any part in breakdown-of-the-day. ARGH!
I believe that anytime you notice these kinds of dynamics with anyone, a boss, your mother, a lover, it means something is wrong with them, not you. This is just my unscientific opinion. We all have room to grow but when suddenly, everything in the world is wrong with you, well, that doesn’t seem fair does it? Also, it’s fairly unlikely assuming you are a full grown adult with a life that was functioning before this person came into your life.
No Coping Strategies Will Work
Fairly early on in the relationship, I began to try to modify my behavior in order to please the Bad Man. I became very measured in my words and watched my tone of voice. I focused all my attention on being a pleasing machine. I tried to meet his outrageous demands and… (if you are easily offended, please don’t read the next phrase) had sex like a circus monkey. Even that didn’t work. Nothing worked! Nothing stopped him from getting mad at me. Nothing stopped him from living in his warped reality where I was evil and he was the victim of me and my “horrid” ways. It was so tiring.
I left the Bad Man and his chaos in search of my own peace and an answer. I found the answers I needed here at LoveFraud. Really. I am not trying to get points here. I needed this explanation and thank God I found it. I still don’t know all of the Bad Man’s secrets but I know the biggest one. Bad Man definitely has a personality disorder, or two. Since I am not a clinician, I am unsure if he qualifies as a sociopath. I am SURE he qualifies as a borderline and a narcissist. Not too long ago, I believed that but still felt a little uncomfortable stating it because I wondered if saying he was an abuser made me the “drama queen” that he said I was. Now I know that calling me “drama queen” was a way to discredit me to others and to make me doubt myself and my own perceptions. That’s just one of the things I know today. I also know something else. “Drama” and chaos seem to follow the Bad Man wherever he goes. To this day, anytime I hear a man say he is looking for a woman with “no drama” it makes me wonder… about the man.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
learnthelesson says:
OMG – I thought CRS was a name for a real medical condition….Oxy and whoever else uses that term…you got me good with that one!!! LOL
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
learnEDthelesson….no tv…LOL You go girl! Leave ‘im in the dust!
Well..the Princess called…got to pick up her and her BFF…put on my Transportation/Security/Accounts Payable personna…and figger out how to keep ‘em happy for 4-5 hours….later
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Jim in Indiana USA says:
ltl….”parting shot” you aint old yet…Can’t Remember Stuff…er..Sh*t….you need to get out more.
Oxy…if I can’t find my cup…microwave…yup, last place I look….that’s because when I find it I stop looking for it!
toodles
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learnthelesson says:
Jim – so I was right when I told you to look on top of your head for your sunglasses! And Im just now, at 42, needing bifocals to read the fine print on kids medicine bottles and my sons insulin needles!!! O-L-D-E-R Im getting by the minute. Its a rule…turn 40 and within a few years the bifocals, losing keys/sunglasses and “CRS” starts to set in! As long as Im 18 on the inside, i can take whatever aging throws my way!!! Clairol and all – MATT!!! And I did Pilates class from 1 – 2 today…there I was learning/coordinating this funky quadrant breathing with something called butt/belly and bending to the ground in four big breaths — and what do I do — on the exhale breathe — DROOLED!!! Well we all laughed at least, and so I guess that means Im officially aging gracefully!!!
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Matt says:
learnedthelesson:
Sugar, you aren’t 42. After 33, we are all thirty-through. Leave well enough alone.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Jim, Matt, and LTL,
I was REALLY REALLY REALLY worried about my mind when I realized I couldn’t READ–not one paragraph, and not even a long sentence. That got better slowly, and I got where I could concentrate for a page or two. Got my therapist to actually admin an IQ test and I scored 1 point higher than I ever have, so my MIND is not gone, there are just some SHORTS in the curcuits. Ha ha
The other day my son D was convinced the filter for water under our sink was on the HOT side, and I said No, it was on the cold side, so as he was crawling under there and saw it was on the COLD side, he shouted “WHO MOVED IT?” I told him, “D, it has ALWAYS been on the cold side for drinking water.” Then he remembered—he’s 31! He installed it for goodness sakes and has changed the filter every few months for over a year. It actually made me feel GREAT that his mind has a few “shorts” too.
I think sometimes our plates are so “full” of “stuff” that things we normally would pay attention to and remember in the short term box just slide off and we are not noticing them because we are thinking about something else at the time we put the coffee cup in the microwave or the car keys in the refrigerator. (yea, I’ve done that too!)
I used to could “multi-task” with the best of them and keep 3-4 even 5 balls in the air, now, on a GOOD DAY I can keep ONE BALL OFF THE FLOORL MOST OF THE TIME….but juggling 3-4 or 5? Not a chance, single tasking now and don’t make me lose my train of thought, I can’t jump back on the boxcars like I used to.
In fact, there are lots of things now I can’t do that I use’ta do. I had to get a fancy extension stirrup for my saddle for when I ride tall horses, my little short legs don’t bend like they use’ta and I have to put the horse in a dtich to get my short leg up to the stirrup. This thing is great, you touch a button and the stirrup comes down about 6 inches. When you get up on the horse, you take your toe and pull it back up and it latches in place.
I don’t need the extra help getting up on Fat and Hairy as they are shorter than the BIG horses, but sure do need help on a tall horse. To think there was a time “not so long ago”—I think last year when I was 30, Matt—LOL—I could grab the saddle horn, forget about the stirrups, and swing up on the tallest horse, but not now! LOL
Gettin’ old sucks, but the alternative isn’t what I want right now either, so will make a few concessions like an “easy up stirrup.”
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nic says:
Any lawyers or people that could help? I think my husband and I will be going to trial. We had a rental property and home during the marriage. I was suppose to keep the home and he keep the rental property. Well, since we are going to trial I want to give up the home. It is too much. I am still trying to see how he was not responsible for paying 1/2 of the expenses after he left. My home has lost value and I may have to put money into the sell. Shouldn’t he be responsible for it also? I posed the question before about he benefits of getting a home and having a child during the marriage. All I am getting is child support. I could have got that having my child out of wedlock.
Does anyone have any experience with that? I know I have heard of judges ordering the sell of marital property. My husband has lied throughout the entire time. He is denying living with his mistress and caring for the child they have together. Illinois is a state where I can claim marital dissipation (the spending of money on nonmarital things such as his son out of wedlock and his mistress). I just want this to be over with but I also want justice.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Nic,
I am not an attorney, Matt and Pearl are though, so maybe one of them will chime in.
However, I do know a bit about property in a joint property state.
I would start by having both properties appraised for their CURRENT VALUE by a PROFESSIONAL. That will give you a good idea of what the properties are worth TODAY, AS IS.
Your lending institutions should be able to give you the PAY OFF or what is owed on them.
You may or may NOT have anything over the amount of debts when it is all put together.
My suggestion is that you see how the debts vs the assets stack up. He should then be required to take responsibility for half the debt….but….if he refuses to pay, the lenders can come after you for all of it.
Ir you know where you stand in debts vs assets when you go to court you would have a much better idea about how you could deal. Also, that would leave you free to get a more inexpensive place to live more appropariate to you now.
Good luck!
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nic says:
Thanks Ox. He just refinanced the income property and I believe he got back over 15,000. I don’t want that building at all. He has a lot of student loans and credit card debt. I don’t have any debt but the mortgage and my car. He makes a little more than twice what I make. I would hope that I wouldn’t be responsible for his credit card or other debt that he has used to pay for his mistress and her kids. Plus I don’t know what is going on with his finances now. They were messed up when we were together and they probably still are.
I am so confused. I hope Matt or Pearl could help.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Nic, a CPA or attorney can tell you what is what IN YOUR STATE, so your attorney should be able to give you some advice on this.
What happened to the money he got out of the refinance of the rental property? Did you get any of it? did you AGREE to that refinance? Who is getting the INCOME from that property?
There are lots of questions you will have to answer.
You may not be responsible for his credit card debt after your separation o r you may be. Ditto on his student loans. Were you married to him at the time they were made or was it before you married?
There are SO many questions that my advice is to talk to YOUR attorney, and to get the property reappraised ASAP. I would also get a list of your debts together as well, and get your attorney to demand a list of his debts. It is my understanding that debts made during the marriage are joint debts, in a joint state, but that MAY BE WRONG. YOUR attorney will know the laws that apply in YOUR state.
Good luck, sweetie!
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Matt says:
nic:
The first question I have is did you or did you not sign a property settlement agreement whereby you agreed to take on the house and he agreed to take on the rental property. If you did, you are in all likelihood bound by its terms.
If you did not, then the house and the rental property go into the “marital community pot”. You need actual current values on the property, before you can even apportion ownership/debt interests in the property.
Assuming he incurred the student loans before you were married, in all likelihood those will be his responsiblity.
Regarading the credit cards, any debt traceable to each of you before the marriage is your individual responsibility. Anything acquired after the marriage goes into the community pot.
You are in the uneviable position of asking yourself exactly what you want out of this. If you are looking to avoid being saddled with marital debt, your best bet is to go into this with the approach of “we sell everything, net it against the debts and clear it.” You do not want to find yourself with an agreement that says “my ex will pay 50 percent of the debt.” He will not pay it and you will be on the hook for it. The banks do not care what your agreement is between you. They want their money.
This goes back to the problems you have been having with regarding visitiation of your daughter. From what you have said, you have been letting him violate the terms of the agreement letting him have Wednesday visitiation when the agreement very clearly says he has visitation every other Saturday.
Your ex has conclusively proven he will not follow any agreement he enters into. You have to decide what exactly you want RIGHT NOW. If you don’t get it up front with him, you will never see it and you will be chasing him forever. More to the point, if you settle up front, he will get bored and move on from your life. And you will get the happier future you deserve.
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nic says:
Thanks Matt:
I will be speaking to my atty tomorrow but I just wanted to know if anyone knew any info. The settlement we came up with did divide the property but he isn’t signing it and his lawyer isn’t responding. So now I want to get rid of the house and I don’t want to be held on the hook for it by myself. We bought this house together. I would have never bought this house on my own. Trial dates will be set next month.
I don’t see how him taking out student loans during our marriage would be joint. I am not benefitting from his student loans. He has been in school forever…and get this his mistress is in the same program. He is making all of the money and I am not getting anything but court ordered child support. He has been living it up with credit cards…vacationing, he bought a new lexus, etc. so that would be extremely cruel for me to have to take on his debt.
Ox: I didn’t get a dime of the money from the refi. The judge ordered me to sign his refi papers. I guess I will sleep on it and wait to talk with my atty tomorrow.
Thanks
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OxDrover says:
Dear Nic,
RE_read what matt said ANY DEBT INCURRED DURING THE MARRIAGE IS A MARITAL DEBT.
The thing is that you agreed for him to take out the student loans while you were married, presumably so he would get an education and make a better living….but baby, you are boinked by those unless you get a senile judge or your soon-to-be-x grows a halo! That is the thing that people don’t see when they get married (or not) and mingle their finances with total trust—with legal authority. Whew!
Talk to your attorney and Matt may be right, you may be better off selling everything and putting what assets you have from them into the pot and hope like heck that they cover most or all of the debt. Sometimes, like here in Arkansas, debts that are made by one party AFTER the filing for divorce are NOT counted as marital debts, but just after the separation (however it happens) if there are no papers filed it is every man/woamn for themselves, and you know what the Ps do—they start making the grab.
After my son’s then-wife was arrested for trying to kill him and was in jail, since everything they had was in both their names he sold the car he had borrowed the money from my egg donor to buy, repaid the egg donor the proceeds of that sale (lost a bundle on that one) “sold” his car to my egg donor as well, to get it out of joint names, emptied the house of what he wanted and the rest went to the dump or a garage sale, paid the utility bills she had not paid for 2-3 months, etc. and took off. Since their house was on the family trust lands, the he and the then-wife were actually renters so she had no claim to the house (we set the trust up that way when we built the house, she had no money in it except the rent they paid monthly to the trust.) But, in the process she had taken $24,000 of my egg donor’s money (we got back most of that) and he was on the hook to my egg donor for the money for the two cars, back rent, utility bills and moving expenses. He has been paying on that since he left and is about paid out now to the egg donor. We just sold his car and transferred title and that money will go to the egg donor to pay off the rest of his debt to her. He doesn’t owe anyone anything else.
He’s working for me now for room and board and walking around money (not much) but he is using his time wisely and for his healing process and working at odd jobs for others when they come up. He needs the time to “contemplate the lint in his navel” which he has not had since the day of her arrest. He has worked 60-80 hour weeks since then until he came home.
I strongly admire you people who go through this and still hold on to a job, take care of your kids and fight this out in divorce court. I am AMAZED at how strong you are to go through all of this day in day out and NOT end up in a rubber room. You all tell me how “strong” I am, but you know, I have had a lot of advantages that you haven’t. One is I have not had to contend with a very demanding job, and I have not had to comfort small children when they are frightened in the night, or deal with a teenager learning to drive. I retired after my husband died (I tried to work for 3 months) and I couldn’t do it and function with people’s lives in my hands. I thought long and hard about retiring, because my profession IS A BIG PART OF WHO I AM, but at the same time, I knew it was dangerous for me to work with NO Short term memory and not much judgment from the insanity, and that was ONLY AFTER MY HUSBAND DIED, not with this crap with my egg donor and my sons and DIL and the Trojan HOrse Psychopath who were out to kill me. Sheesh, you guys are amazing@!!!!! I feel like putty compared to you all!
I don’t have any problem “man handling” a stubborn donkey, cause I know it isn’t the end of the world but you guys take care of your children and do your jobs and “keep up” a front of sanity when you feel like sucking your thumb in the fetal position! I am amazed at you all and I want you to know how much I admire you all for keeping it together like you do. Even when you feel like you are falling apart, you still get up, comb your hair and go to work, or the lawyers etc.
Hang in there Nic, you will make it, you are stronger than the old bat weilding the skillet and riding the jack ass! You are ONE TOUGH WOMAN!!!! TOWANDA!!!!!
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alohatraveler says:
Dear Akitameg,
You wrote something about anxiety days… days in which you start to doubt yourself and wonder if it was all your fault.
It wasn’t yesterday and it isn’t today.
Don’t worry dear one. I used to loop through those kinds of days. I do believe in time it will be gone.
Through my own healing process, I have become stronger and my ability to assess people and call “it” as I see it… even if I do it quietly inside myself… has improved. My “picker” has improved too.
I know a dangerous person when I see one… and I know the difference between “me and you”… by that I mean… when I feel bad vibes between me and anyone… I am now more sure of myself. I back away from people that seem off and I don’t get sucked into thinking I need to change or try to understand where a person is coming from… when they are being abusive, narcissistic, inappropriate… blah blah.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that I had those days too where I started to wonder if I made this all up… or was it really me.. and those days lingered for a long time. But they are gone now.
Those kind of doubting days will eventually go away as the lessons sink in and you evolve into the wonderfully confident woman you are meant to be.
That’s what I think anyway.
)
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alohatraveler says:
One more thing… I think you all are so amazing and incredible and wonderful!
I am so inspired by the learning and the healing that is here a LF and so thankful to be part of this community.
Where would we be in our healing if this forum did not exist? I shudder to think!
All the best to all of you and I will continue to try to keep up ion things… but I think I need glasses now from all this late night reading.
Aloha
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peggy2176il says:
This is my first post. I was married to a S for over 19 years and escaped only because he ended up in jail from stealing from my parents living trust. The kids and I had 3 years of freedom, a new home and on welfare and food stamps. My Mom had passed in 2003 just shortly after my now ex went to jail.
Sadly he found us again and took the kids and I had the option of never seeing them again or going as well so stupidly I moved to another state.
He of course said he had been in treatment, taking his meds, and yada, yada, Bu!!$— and now here we are stuck in a house with him living downstairs and us living upstairs. The kids have fianlly seen the light. Now granted they are now 18 and 22, but years and years of emotional, psychological and living with a S affected them greatly, as it did me as well.
Yes I was stupid to come up here and give up everything, we finally got a section 8 home, but I was afraid to lose them and never see them again. I had already lost my oldest as he did not understand why I stayed so long in this crazy relationship, and why when we finally escaped, did I go back. I have tried to tell him I did not go back to him, but to keep brother and sisters safe, well as safe as I could.
Anyway, we have been begging and pleading with the trust attorney to give me my inheritance. Mom died in Jan 2003 and I have received nothing. She has made me pay back the 150,000.00 he stole from the trust by not giving me anything until she feels I have paid for what he stole. We have realized that once again he has sung us one too many songs. I am on SSI and can not work, in fact I almost died last year. I asked again for my inheritance and all I got back was a letter, and of course the trust was billed for that, sayong that there is a spend thrift clause in the trust and she won’t give me the money. How in God’s name is wanting a normal life in a different state with something we own, like our own home, peace of mind and freedom from him finally, spendthrift?
She is just as controlling as my ex was and is, and now we are really trapped….does anyone have any suggestions other than hire an attorney because I have no money and legal aid does not handle probate matters……
I volunteer at a domestic abuse shelter, because on top of being a S he has abused us every way you can.
For 18 long years he ruined my credit, used my SS number for more credit cards, my kids SS numbers as well. We lost everything we ever had and 3 years ago started to pick up things through the grace of others, but I can not do this again.
How do I convince this attorney to give me my inheritance so we can go back to where we know we will be safe?
This state is is not it, as he beat on my third oldest, she is 22 and the cops did nothing…….now what? I get so upset over all this, as the kids and I do, because it is so unfair.
peggy2176il
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OxDrover says:
Dear Peggy,
Welcome to lovefraud, you are in the RIGHT PLACE. This is a safe and good healing community. Glad you arrived here, just sorry that you have so many reasons for being here.
There is an attorney on this site, Matt, who is a good guy, so we will put out a plea for his advice. ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you!
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OxDrover says:
MATT, HELP PEGGY!!!!!
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Mobetter says:
I Met Patricia Meggin Ryan-Morrissette of Milwaukee, Wisconsin through yahoo personals in Sept/07. Dated and eventually married in June/08. She lied about her financial condition. After married 30 days, she advised me her home had been foreclosed several months prior and was up for public auction in 48 hours. I took my lifes savings out of my IRA and paid the mortgage delinquencies in excess of $19,000. She contributed nothing. After 30 days, Patty kicked me to the curb, filed false child abuse charges against me and initiated divorce proceedings. She hasn’t spoken to me since. She is wicked, ruthless, cunning and evil. She is a drunk and has an extremely violent and abusive temper. Her 17 yo daughter Imani, who didn’t even live with us seems to have been complicient in the scheme.
I didn’t do a financial check because I believed in her. I fell unconditionally in love with her and still am. I have forgiven her, but she won’t even give me the courtesy of acknowledging or responding to my attempts to communicate with her. She won’t even tell me if she ever loved or cared about me or allow me closure. She broke my heart into a million pieces, yet I still miss and want her. She has no idea of what true love and committment is all about and refuses me any compassion at all. I wasn’t a perfect husband, but I was a good one. I was loyal, faithful, supportive and loving, yet she is able to ignore all that I am for her. Her focus is only on trying to destroy my reputation and good name in order to validate her actions. Imagine being told by someone they love and adore you only to be back stabbed after three months of marriage. She violated confidential information concerning my past mistakes by spreading lies about my use of drugs, reckless spending and infidelity. All of which is untrue and can be proven. She accused me of living off of her, when bank statements will show, I contributed three times more income to our relationship than she. They also show her wreckless spending of money and non payment of debts. A practice she has continued for many years. She is incapable of committment and loyalty. She is selfish, has no humility and completely void of any compassion or self evaluation. Yet, I still love her. Why, I couldn’t say. My Priest insist that I’m in love with the notion of her. Thats probably true. I was angry at God for taking her away from me, but now I realize he has saved me from yet another destructive situation. God is good and looks out for all of us. All the best.
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Elizabeth Conley says:
Blessings Mobetter,
I pray it gets better from here.
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Matt says:
Peggy:
As I seem to recall, a spendthrift trust is one that is created for the benefit of a person — generally because he or she is unable to control spending. The trust documents gives an independent trustee full authority to make decisions as to how the trust funds may be spent for the benefit of the beneficiary. Creditors of the beneficiary generally cannot reach the funds in the trust, and the funds are not actually under the control of the beneficiary.
A spendthrift provision in an irrevocable trust prevents creditors from attaching the interest of the beneficiary in the trust before that interest cash or property or both is actually distributed to him or her. Most well drafted irrevocable trusts contain spendthrift provisions even if the beneficiaries are not known to be spendthrifts. This is because such a provision protects the trust and the beneficiary in the event a beneficiary is sued and a judgment creditor attempts to attach the beneficiary’s interest in the trust.
Without seeing the trust documents, I am assuming your mother told her attorney, who is the one disbursing the trust of her concerns regarding your involvement with the sociopath and the fact that the sociopath embezzled money from the trust.
The fact that you are living in the same house from the sociopath and continuing to have involvement with him is no doubt giving the trustee ample grounds to deny your requests for the proceeds of the trust. Her concern, no doubt, is that if she gave you the money, the sociopath would just promptly grab the house and sell it and abscond with the funds.
I would say your best bet is to ask for a meeting with the trustee and determine exactly what you would have to do to get some of the proceeds and ask what conditions your mother attached to your getting those proceeds.
With respect to a house, if the trust proceeds were to be used for it, I suspect title to the trust would remain with the trust. You may ask if that would be an acceptable alternative to the trustee since that would keep your sociopath from getting access to the title.
Your best bet is get rid of the sociopath. It sseems to me that you and your kids continue to protect this creature.
He has stolen your social security number and your kids social security numbers and trashed your credit. You are all going to be paying the price for that a long time because your credit scores will be destroyed. The best thing you could do for your self and for your kids as their mother is for all of you to swear out charges with the district attorney’s office for identity theft and fraud.
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Wini says:
Mobetter: “They” are the lie, from hello to goodbye.
You are her business, she, like what “they” all do, work us for what they can get. Period. We are stepping stones to what they want, when they want, where they want to go. Which, by the way, no one can figure out where they are going? … it’s this perpetual motion thing happening with all of them. Which is opposite of going silent, being still, listening to the holy spirit to renew yourself (aka God). They never slow down, never go still, never go silent to listen within to the Holy spirit. Therefore, my conclusion is they are the FOOLS of the world.
Stay with us on this blogg. The more you read, the more you comprehend what an illusion they all are. Knowledge is power … and this knowledge, though it will hurt you to your very core, will set you free.
Remember, there is no substance to any of them. We can call them shameless, ruthless, careless, immoral … etc. but in reality … they are NOTHING. Not a THING.
Peace to your heart and soul as you heal through this horrific of traumas. You will get stronger as you progress through your healing. I promise you that. We all promise you that.
Remember, you are not alone, WE are all in this together.
For now, pamper yourself. Be good to yourself. Put some nice jazz or whatever kind of music you like on. Take a walk (hopefully you have a dog by your side … if not, rescue a dog (or 2) from the shelter), get some fresh air and sunshine (God’s natural healing). When thoughts of her pop into your head … pray to God to help you get over the shackles of her lies and deceptions. Stay with us and blogg about anything you want, any time you want. Who ever is on line at the time, will gladly write you back.
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Jen2008 says:
Blindsighted said:
“He acted like our relationship would be ongoing. We even went away overnight to a “conference”. By then I was in love and fantasized that we would someday be able to be together- I thought he felt that way too. ………Throughout all this,he always insisted he and his wife were happily married and never even remotely implied that he would ever leave her. I accepted that although if he had said he was leaving his wife, I probably would have left my husband for him.
July 31 began the same as…..He said his wife was busy that evening and so he could take me out to dinner. …….. he looked at me and said ” I think I have been giving you the wrong impression, I know you are in love with me , but I’m not in love with you.” When I asked if he was breaking up with me, he said no- he just wanted me to know this, but he still wanted to see me. Needless to say, I was blindsided and absolutely destroyed. ……………..while looking through the archives I saw a article about “the mask coming off”……t. Its just amazing how that is exactly what happened. Devalue- ” I think I’ve given you the wrong impression- I know you are in love with me, but I’m not in love with you”. Then discard soon after and moving on to a new conquest. I keep trying to deny that he is a “true” sociopath, but the more of your stories I read, the more convinced Iam that he is a true S…………..”
I’m sorry for your pain and I have no idea if the guy in guestion is a socio or not. But from your post, here is what stands out:
(1) He was married and you knew it upfront
(2) You were also married and you knew you were married, plus he knew you were married
(3) YOU say throughout your affair he always alleged being happily with his marriage and said he would NEVER leave her and that you accepted this -but you say YOU are in love with him and would leave your husband for him (BTW, You don’t mention YOUR husband much or how HE FEELS about his wife being unfaithful to him)
(4) He tells you he is not in love with you, then begins to break away
I understand people are motivated to have affairs by different things and I am not getting into the morality issue of that because different people feel differently about it. But when ANYONE enters an affair with the KNOWLEDGE that a man is married, he tells you upfront he is NOT going to leave his wife for you, and YOU ARE ALSO MARRIED—-then you “fool around and fall in love” and he ain’t[‘t in love and drops you and moves on—————–HOW DID THIS GUY EVER HAVE THE MASK ON? Maybe he’s a socio, or maybe he is a jerk who just likes to screw around alot on his spouse for whatever his reasons, just as the women he hooks up with (the ones who are also married) also screw around on their spouse for whatever reason.
Like I said, I’m sorry for your pain and I’m sorry that you fell in love with a married man. But frankly, I don’t see that you were BLINDSIDED at all and get a little tired of the “group think” and hopping on the bandwagon that everybody who gets dumped and gets their heart broken because they chose to break their own marital vows and hook up with another married person is the victim of a sociopath.———–
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learnthelesson says:
Jen – you raise a very good point. Not just between married people having affairs, but romantic relationships in general…. sometimes its not sociopathic, but just a relationship failing to thrive, or losing interest, or someone making a bad choice/ bad judgment and cheating on someone, or frustration expressed because of the stress involved, etc., etc.
With S/P’s and disordered people in relationships there are clearly underlying issues of pathological deceit toward you as their partner, false advertisement as prince charming/cinderella and MOTIVES to confuse you, D & D you, as well as humiliate and harm you.
I think, but I cant speak for Blindsided, just share my interpretation that perhaps she got caught up, as many have –whether married or not – whether aware or not — caught up in the fantasy of it all. Perhaps believing in time they would end up together. And you are correct in pointing out that he did not actually verbalize to her that would be the case and he did not verbally false advertise in any way
And the difference is the ones who verbalize deceit from the getgo (i.e. dont say they are already married, or give false names, addresses, etc., and seduce people into relationships for personal/financial/sexual gain.
Having an open marital affair – with the cards on the table – is a different situation. And perhaps blindsided “fell in love” with someone who just wanted to have his cake and eat it too – ie. an affair — and that was the reality of it — but she was with somone whose actions of spending time together, travelling and perhaps saying words in the moment, and displaying a perceived real interest.. but all the while reiterating “but im not leaving my wife” — still allowed Blindsided to poss get caught up in a fantasy about the potential for more??
Any way you slice it… affairs are dysfunctional situations. Not necessarily sociopathic situations – but still ones that require support and personal enlightenment and personal healing and growth afterward.
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Jen2008 says:
Learnthelesson says: “Any way you slice it… affairs are dysfunctional situations. Not necessarily sociopathic situations – but still ones that require support and personal enlightenment and personal healing and growth afterward.”
I completely agree. But at the same time, IMO, I just don’t think the board should be a “Yes” board where no matter what the situation everyone always slams the other party. I ithink the support on this board is great, BUT I also think it needs sometimes to be balanced–although usually there is alot of contrasting opinons here anyway which is good.
But yes, like you said Blindsided needs support–after all her heart is broken for whatever reason–but for me, that support can’t extend to soley blaming him for engaging in the same behavior she engaged in–with her being the victim, or for not living up to her fantasy of staying with her foever.
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learnthelesson says:
Jen – I agree with you about trying to be fair to all parties involved. And I reread Blindsided’s first post. She spoke about she herself not setting out to leave her husband or have and affair.
And mentioned many red flags about his seductive manner, and pity story about his wife, and seductive involvement in her life…. as well as the deceit she found out about previous “affairs” even one while she was involved with him and unethical work practices…etc…
Someone, perhaps, Melanie mentioned before every situation is different and some more complicated than others.
For me, if someone ends up at LF , as I did, they are at least seeking to understand their personal situation…including their xtox and hopefully gradually starting to understand themselves and work on themselves as well. So, for me personally its not so much categorizing whose to blame, but recognizing that it was dysfunctional, unhealthy, and stagnating lives.
At the same time, I recognize your concern about how we address the other party involved at times! Thanks for the reminder!
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OxDrover says:
In “moments of weakness” I think we all, at least I know I HAVE, done things I knew were wrong. Made decisions and rationalized that what I was doing might be “wrong” but in “this situation” it was OK. It’s not.
I am ASSUMING that Blindsided had not had a SERIES of unfaithful relationships, her X apparently had a PATTERN with this series of unfaithful relationships.
I also think from some of her earlier posts that she admitted she knew it was wrong (I didn’t get that she was married at that time I read it) but that she knew he was married.
My “take” on it, from what I am reading of her posts, is that yes, she knew he was married, she knew it was wrong, but she “fell for” his charm and pitied him.
She also, I think, read more into what he was doing than he intended. He was just looking for some “strange” and apparently was “up front” about that….still doesn’t mean he is not a psychopath or a Narcissist, he is surely an A$$h01e if nothing else. He doesn’t have to have a psychological “label” to be TOXIC and obviously he was/is TOXIC.
Yes, she should NOT have knowingly gotten into an affair with a man she knew was married…but at the same time, having done things myself that I KNEW AT THE TIME WERE WRONG, I cannot “cast the first stone” at her—-and all I can say to her is what Jesus said to the woman taken in adultry, “Go and SIN NO MORE.”
Right now she is in PAIN, probably I would guess, both for being dumped by this man she “bonded to” (I won’t go so far as to call it “love” though it may FEEL like love to her right now) and she is also probably beating the heck out of herself with an emotional equavilent of the cast iron skillet.
Jesus didn’t condone the woman taken in adultery for her sin, and I am pretty sure she had some more consequences to face in life even though she didn’t get stoned to death which was the custom then, I can’t even imagaine what DID happen to her—did her husband cast her out on the street to starve, did he forgive her and take her back, what about the people of the town where “everyone knew” what had happened to her?
There ARE consequences to bad choices, such as adultery, etc. even if “no one finds out”—and even if you personally, don’t believe it is a “sin”—there aren’t many moral people who don’t think it is a “bad thing” even if they aren’t religious.
I feel for Blindsided’s pain, even if there is some of her own bad decisions involved in it, decisions she knew were “bad” and did them anyway. Right now, she needs, I think, support for her efforts to heal that pain, so that she CAN go on and “sin no more” and learn from the decisions that SHE made.
I don’t know if any of what I am saying is making a lot of sense or not. I don’t “love the sin” but I do “care for the sinner” and right now she is in pain…and my hope is that she can forgive herself as well as heal from the painful relationship and that she can go out into life making better decisions and be a stronger and better person for this painful experience. Hugs to you all, and always my prayers.
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Jen2008 says:
Qxy, Although you didn’t read she was married, she opens her post with an explanation:
“In the Fall of 2006 I was a 52 year “empty nester”- my only child, my daughter, had just gone off to college. I was ,and still am ,stuck in a loveless marriage with an older man with many ailments”
But at any rate, yes, I understand she is in pain. I understand we all make mistakes. My only point (and I guess I am being an asshole by making it) is that she also said she was willing to leave her husband for the man, yet in spite of him TELLING her he was not going to ever leave his wife for her, now she is saying he dropped his mask and had been misleading her alll along. So, my point is she went into the relationship with FULL knowledge of his lack of long term intentions towards her, so she was NOT blindsided in that regards, whether the guy is a sociopath or not. Oh well, sorry for my rants–well, not really. Jen
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alohatraveler says:
Jen2008,
Remember, under the influence of a Sociopath, reasonable people do unreasonable things.
That’s all I’m saying.
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henry says:
I have to chime in here…Blindsided you are human and you made a bad choice – sorry you are in a loveless relationship, that makes the lure of true love even more powerfull–
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justabouthealed says:
I too made the same bad choice. And you know what? It makes the grief WORSE because you feel you have no right to your grief.
And Jen, victims tend to blame themselves. We don’t know the whole story. But one thing I love about lovefraud is that it has been such a nonjudgmental place.
There is always a lot that is not known about our histories. YOU don’t necessarily know my husband gave me permission. YOU don’t know that I had my urinary bladder removed and part of me wondered if anyone could find me attractive with a urine bag on my belly. YOU don’t necessarily know that I thought I had weeks or months to live. YOU don’t know that I was dealing with giving up eating solid foods for life, I’m on a liquid diet forever. YOU don’t know the problems my husband had beyond alcoholism. YOU don’t necessarily know that even his sisters told me to have an affair. I didn’t want to leave him, I care about him. He knows about the affair and HE DID NOT JUDGE ME FOR IT. IN FACT HE WAS UPSET ABOUT THE PAIN THAT P PUT ME THROUGH. HE knows me, you don’t. He knows how ethical and caring and empathetic I am. He knew it had to be a monster who got me to abandon my values. Our problems are over and our marriage is wonderful now. I don’t think that might have happened without the nuclear bomb of the P.
The signs of emotional rape are 1) there was a hidden agenda 2) there was a sudden reversal 3) the victim is devastated, much like from a physical rape.
You also don’t know what I did to make amends to his wife, and I won’t write about it here, because I want there to be no way for the P to find out, but let’s just say she and her family are very grateful to me.
So let’s not judge on LF. If someone gets our support who doesn’t deserve it…well, I’d rather error that way than push someone into further despair by other victims judging them.
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justabouthealed says:
An analogy….if someone gets physically raped and beat up or even murdered, does it make the crimes any less illegal or less wrong if it happened between two people having an affair?
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Jen2008 says:
Justabouthealed: You are absolutely right about the judging, therefore, I will try not to judge the victims on the site OR the other party involved, who might also have their “reasons” or “story” to tell.
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justabouthealed says:
Meant to say that what stood out for me from the post from Blindsided is that there was obviously a hidden agenda on the guy’s part. There was a sudden reversal, and blindsided is devastated in a way that is far beyond the usual breakup of an affair. The hidden agenda is hard to prove, especially with the P’s who like to squirm out of responsibility by saying things that they can point to later (e.g. “I told you I wouldn’t divorce my wife”), but not telling you other things (e.g., his TRUE sexual history) and try to get you to assume the shame that belongs to THEM, not you. They target people in pain, who are loving, caring people, who don’t suspect that someone has ulterior motives, lies, manipulates, etc.
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justabouthealed says:
Oop Jen, I posted while you were posting. Thank you for your kind remark.
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confused25 says:
Dear Aloha Traveler,
You wrote a post years ago about a man you met on Maui named Jeff Wood. I think I met him while on Maui and might have had a similar experience as you. I tried to find your story on http://dontdatehimgirl.com/, but I couldn’t find it. Can you post it here so that I can see if it is the same person? I would be most grateful for your help!
Confused 25
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alohatraveler says:
Dear Confused,
Donna has alerted me of your comment. I would be happy to help you and I have already emailed Donna back to say that she can give you my email address. I am sure it’s the same man. I have been in touch with 4 or 5 others that have had the misfortune to meet JW.
I recently removed the post on DDHG because I noticed that he found it and posted a ridiculous rebuttal. I am afraid that he would attempt to try some legal action against me as he stated in his rebuttal that is was defamation of character.
I attempted to remove the posting about a year ago but the site is not moderated and I received a notice that my account was suspended… how strange? and then no explanation as to why.
Anyway, one random night last Dec. I was able to remember my password by some miracle and my account was working again so I took it down. So, you barely missed the ad.
Looking forward to hearing from you. I hope I will be able to offer support that will help your healing.
Aloha… E
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sabrina says:
Aloha, this has to be one of my favorite articles. You are so real and down to earth in your spot on observations. I did get a real kick out of your comment of “having sex like a circus monkey”. I think we’ve all been there!!Ughhh! And “mental gymnists-great stuff, true,well written, and I appreciate the humor in your comments!
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alohatraveler says:
Hi Sabrina,
Thanks! I have a few articles buried here at LF. I was trying to reach this person that posted a comment to me.
“Sex like a circus monkey”.. yeah… it wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. BM had a lot of demands in that department. I thought I would try to keep up but you know, sex on demand is not all that fun. At one point, I noticed that if I was with him every night, I was somewhat okay. But if I took the night off, then he would start with the email bombs. The safest place to be was in his bed. Now I can see how this all related to abandonment (Borderline Issue) and his demand to have all his demands met (Narcissism) and he was just a jerk… Sociopath. No just kidding. That doesn’t prove he was a Sociopath… but he was very exploitive of people for his own purposes (Narcissist/Sociopath). GOSH! I am so smart now!
HAHA!
School resumes on Wednesday so I will be MIA again but I am here with all of you in spirit, always!
Aloha
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sabrina says:
Aloha, Only now after about 1yr and a half away from the S do I realize what a slave I had become to pleasing him. Endlessly working out, to never measure up his expectations, trying to always look “pretty enough” for him, when his jealousy was so obvious, and cut downs so frequent. Sex was ALL about him, I know your feelings!! NO MORE CIRCUS MONKEY for me!!!lol
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peggywhoever says:
Aloha:
I totally ‘get’ your analogies in this post as I did not ‘get’ it before.
My last boyfriend (following the Sociopath) was definitely a Borderline (possibly with sociopathic tendencies).
Crazymaking. Changing realities. I never did figure out the rules, because as you said, they changed constantly.
Thanks for the great article!
Peggy
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Peggy,
You know, sometimes going back and reading through some of the older archived posts will give you an “ah ha” moment even if they didn’t the first time or two your read through them. Sometimes we don’t “get a message” the first time we hear it, but when the time is right, the message gets through.
I realize that sometimes a certain “truth” won’t resonate with me, or I won’t see the validity of it as it concerns me, but another time I hear the same words and it RINGS THE BELLS with me and I GET IT. That is why I never tire of reading and rereading and re-re-re-reading some of the articles here because I see NEW slants on things each time I go through something.
It is sort of like I felt re-reading the old Bible stories of Joseph in Egypt and King david hiding from Saul in the caves, I see a wider, broader, and different perspective on the meaning of the story than I did when I read it before…because I am more open to the meanings hidden in the story maybe…not sure just why, but new insights. Glad you realized that the next BF was TOXIC whatever his “diagnosis” was—and yep, they constantly change the rules for us, you can’t ever meet their expectations or satisfy them. TOXIC, poison. Deadly!
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peggywhoever says:
Dear Oxy:
You warned me about the last relationship…’be careful’…and you were right.
I had a crush on him 40 years ago. He came out of a 30 year marriage. Handsome. Charming. Charismatic. Sweet. Attentive. Helpful. Lots of future plans. Over the top compliments.
Yes, I saw red flags. Yes, I withdrew and he pulled me back in. Unpredictable behavior. Rollercoaster ride. Intermittent anger, then bang…RAGE! Namecalling. Wow.
This is the first time I have encounered a Borderline…perhaps with sociopathic tendencies. I tried to help him, but of course…everything is my fault, and nothing is wrong with him!
He is currently on the smear campaign. I’ve gone NC. Still miss him sometimes, he sure was a good cuddler.
Oxy, you are very wise. I reread the article because have had some long phone conversations with Aloha lately; my last Bad Man was very similar to hers. It has been 3 years since the Sociopath, and sometimes I’m not sure I have gotten any smarter.
Blessings and Peace,
Peggy
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Deceived says:
Jen 2008 – I like what you wrote when you said “Remember, under the influence of a Sociopath, reasonable people do unreasonable things”.
I can attest to the truth of this … I am a living proof just as many on this site are.
Aloha – I have also posted a warning about the man I was involved with for 2 years on DDHG. He begged me to take it down after his initial threat to take legal action against me failed. There was nothing that would move me from taking that post down. I may have been duped but at least I am giving other women a fighting chance against this man IF they took the time to do their homework and do some research on this man. If you enter this man’s name on bing.com, the post about him on DDHG comes up.
These animals HATE being exposed for who and what they truly are and will issue threats against you for posting a warning about them. But I have no regret what so ever – NONE for the post I made against this man on DDHG.
The important thing is you told the truth on that post and more importantly you can back EVERY claim you made against this person. I have consulted a lawyer about this.
The most important defense to an action for defamation is “truth”, which is an absolute defense to an action for defamation.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Peggy,
Yes, it is sooo easy to be sucked into a relationship with these guys. It sounds like your guy is very similar to my X-BF-P that targeted me after my husband’s death…he was in a 32 yr marriage but cheated on her the entire time, with hookers and a harem of “regulars” that he had scattered all over the place. She caught him when he had an affair in the town where they lived. He seemed to like nurses as most of them were nurses.
He started out so sweet and giving and caring, and great cuddler too…then the anger, then the rage when I began to realize he was still seeing the harem and realized he needed another “respectable wife” to cheat on, and keep the harem from wanting to be exclusive with him.
I haven’t dated much since then, not really been asked all that much, and haven’t been out looking either, but the few guys I’ve had a few dates with waved red flags early on in the relationship and I LOOKED AND LISTENED and at the FIRST red flag of any kind of dishonesty or anger issues, GONE!!! One guy I really had a big crush on him, and we had a “friendship” but not romantic relationship but it would have turned romantic at any time…but after about 6 months of “close friendship” and frequently doing things with him there were some instances of UNPROVOKED and UNEXPECTED RAGE outbursts over crazy chit….the first couple of times it happened I felt (notice I said FELT, not thought) I provoked it or tried to trivalize it but the third time it happened, I didn’t say a single word, just turned and WALKED OUT of his living room and never spoke to the guy again. Total and complete NC. Then, looking back over his relationships with his kids and even his stories about his two x wives (a kid by each) I realized that while his wives might very well have been borderlines, HE WAS AS BAD OR WORSE and very narcissistic and blame placing all on them, assuming nothing for himself.
I bought into his “innocence” there for a while, but in the end, I SAW by watching what he did rather than “listening” to what he was saying–and ACTIONS speak WAY LOUDER than words.
Borderlines are quite similar to psychopaths in the rages that they have, and in the manipulation, so in effect they may just be a different variety of the same species, like a wolf vs a coyote, still predatory, just one bigger and more dangerous than the other one, but still able to do damage to the unsuspecting prey.
I’m glad that you got out of the relationship when you did without more damage than you did, and glad too that you came back here. I think part of my own problems with REPEAT offenders in my life is that I thought I was more healed than I was and therefore didn’t keep my guard up as well as I should have. I got too cocky. Sometimes we know we’ve been “had” and we know we got hurt, but we aren’t SURE just what hit us so we don’t really know what to look for the next time.
I remember feeling sort of superior to the women from the DV shelter who came to my clinic for pro bono medical care. I WOULD NEVER GO BACK TO A MAN WHO BEAT ME. (that made me superior to them) YET, I went back to my SON who had abused me. So why was I feeling “superior to them?” DUH??? Talk about arrogance—I had not learned, and I should have been smarter than that, but I wasn’t as smart as I thought I was.
NOW I realize that I need to be VERY cautious with ANYone in my life and HONOR MY INSTINCTS AND GUT and watch how they act, not what they say. If people treat me poorly, I DO NOT NEED THEM IN MY LIFE. Period. No second chances, no excuses for why they abused me, lied to me, stole from me, tried to trick me, or disrespected me or my boundaries. I treat people well, and I expect—I DEMAND that people treat me with the same respect. Makes life much more simple in deciding who is in my life or who isn’t. NO CHEATS, NO LIARS, NO ABUSER, NO THIEVES, NO EX CONVICTS, NO ADDICTS, NO MOOCHES. Gosh, how simple can life be when you eliminate those? LOL
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Deceived,
Your quote from Jen is right on!
I am glad that you were able to warn others of him and that you didn’t have to take down the post. I hope who ever is exposed to him will use your warning. Many times people don’t because they smear us and the next victim wants to believe the lie. You did the best you could.
Glad you are here and healing! It is a journey none of us would want to have to make, but in the end, I think we come out stronger and better if we take this opportunity for growth!
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Deceived says:
Hi Ox. Many times I wished I didn’t have to make this journey. It really does make your heart and spirit grow tired and weary, doesn’t it? But I cannot undo the past and poor decisions I made that brought me here.
Thanks Ox for reaching out and encouraging so many of us who are here on LF. You are tireless in your encouragement and support to so many – thank you.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Deceived,
Thanks, sweetie, I wouldn’t have chosen this path either, and I had chances to go another direction and I didn’t see that the snakes in the grass had plenty of room to hide and bite me on the path I did choose. I can still be bitten I am sure now, but I AM more cautious where I set my feet, and I don’t put my hand under a rock I can’t see what is hiding under the rock any more! LOL Literally and figuratively watching for poison snakes! CAUTION but I am Determined NOT to live in TERROR any more.
Whether or not you believe it, I GET much much more here at LF than I give back…every day I learn something new, something that uplifts me, or moves me to tears, but the net result is that it is helping me with my own healing journey and if I can by example or by chance help someone else, that gives me satisfaction too. I know how much people here, and Donna and Liane,, Kathy Hawke, and many other bloggers have helped me, encouraged me when I felt I could NOT go on another step. When I felt my heart would burst with pain and sorrow.
I hope those days of chaos, confusion, sorrow, pain and crazee-ness are gone for a while, but I know that whatever I have thrown at me, I can survive and there was a time when I wasn’t sure of that.
A joy shared is doubled, and a burden shared is halved.
Many people here have lightened my burdens and sorrows, and I hope I can do that for others, and share their joy when they break free, step out and step up and heal! God bless all!
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panther says:
What a great article!
Every single part of this is 100% relevant! It hits the nail on the HEAD. I am just BAFFLED at how this KEEPS HAPPENING here on LF. How many articles will I read that are EXACTLY written as though I COULD HAVE SAID THAT!!!! Just shocked over here!!! YES YES YES I agree.
My ex would tell me that I BLACKED OUT and did HORRIBLE things to him when I was blacked out, things that he was suffering tremendously from and that these were the reasons he was “acting out” to deal with the pain of all these things I had done while “blacked out.” It wasn’t until I LEFT him that I started to wonder if I had actually done or said any of it at all…..truly….I had no memory of more than half the things he’d accused me of, which had made me think I was completely nuts before. He had me thinking I was blacking out and doing things I didn’t remember doing! That made me so nervous! I remember thinking, “What if I black out at work?” I was so nervous!
What really got me thinking even before leaving him was that he kept calling me unstable and crazy and emotionally abusive yet….
I figured that IF I really was all of these things, then WHY is it that only in my interactions with HIM do I seem to display such characteristics? What I mean is that I did SEEM unstable when he was around, because he was throwing zillions of balls at me and moving the lines, just as this writer said. I started to reason, however, that I ONLY responded to HIM this way, and that in every other relationship in my life (except my P father) I had a stable interaction with the person. This means my mom, my close friends, sisters, brother, ect. Why didn’t any of my closest friends think I was bipolar? Why is it that the sisters I lived with for many years had never told me about my “blackout” episodes? How naive was I!?!?!? Whatever he said, I just ate it up, because he TOLD me it was true. Duh!
And about that last part….when a guy says he is looking for a woman without drama, I immediately think he’s dangerous. I already had this sense before reading this, before the spath actually. Unfortunately, spaths aren’t even THAT obvious. Rather than saying they want a woman with no drama, they will say something much more tricky, like, “I am looking for a woman who shares my vision of a mutually respectful, peaceful, and loving relationship. A woman who is confident in herself and has a good sense of who she is.” Next time a guy says this, I’ll be tempted to say, “And what movie or book are you quoting?” Then I’ll look nuts….oh, well….
ouch….yes…it’s such a dead-on article that it hurts.
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skylar says:
Panther,
You hit the nail on the head when you said that your “craziness” only came out around him. That’s how you knew he was the cause.
Years ago, spath and I had a major fight. I was all broken up wanting to die and he just sat there emotionless. Then I noticed something. I noticed that I only ever felt like I wanted to die, when I was around him. And I remembered that he told me one of his ex-gf’s had killed herself. I then knew, that he was the cause. It really helped to restore my sanity to know that these feelings were not coming from me, but from him. The clues were all there.
Years later, I remembered the incident again and then another thought came to me: I was wrong. There actually had been another time when I couldn’t stand living anymore, and that time it was because of my parents.
So that is one way you can know you are with a spath: they make you wish you were dead.
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