After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 2-Painful Shock
PDF Imagine a book, a novel, that begins with an explosion on the first page. The explosion disintegrates big things into fragments moving away faster than the eye can follow. There is no way to understand what it means, or know what the world is becoming. The people in the book are either immobilized, their stunned brains on autopilot, trying to gather information. Or they are rushing everywhere, trying to find something to save before the dust even settles. In the background, other people may be fainting or crying. But this book is about the people who are alert, struggling to maintain their identities in a falling-apart world.
This is where traumatic healing begins. The trajectory of healing begins at the point of trauma.
The essence of trauma is loss. We may not understand our trauma as a loss at first. It may feel like a painful blow. Or an experience of confusion or disorientation. Or possibly being stretched beyond our comfort zone, and then beyond. Or we may perceive one type of loss, and then discover a more important loss that only becomes clear later. These reasons are hints of why it takes so long to process certain types of trauma.
The personal stories at Lovefraud give evidence of many types of losses. We have lost money and possessions, jobs and careers, family and friends, years of our lives, physical and mental health. And we are the survivors of relationships with sociopaths. Many of us know someone or know of someone who cannot be here with us, because they gave up on their lives through suicide or got lost in depressions, psychotic breaks or self-destructive behavior.
In some ways, what happened to us is like a situation of unrequited love. We loved someone. They didn’t love us back. It’s a sad, but everyday occurrence. In some ways, it is like an investment that did not work out. Another everyday occurrence. There are certain types of losses that are considered “normal,” expected, and things that people just get over, preferably sooner rather than later. Because they are just part of the randomness of the world that sometimes gives us what we want and sometimes does not. And we are expected to have the everyday skills of dealing with losses and moving on.
But this is not what happened to us, and we know it. We may not know what exactly happened, but we know it was momentous. To us. Because we can’t snap back. Our everyday strategies to minimize losses – saying it didn’t matter, turning our attention to something more positive, making a joke about it, finding some quick fix of our favorite “little drug” to make ourselves feel better – don’t work. We are destabilized at a fundamental level.
What happened?
If asked about what happened to us in a love relationship with a sociopath, most of us would probably sooner or later use the term “betrayal.” Or being conned. Or being used by someone who didn’t care about us. Or being led to believe in a love or partnership that never really existed. Or being targeted for exploitation.
But all of these descriptions of what happened emerge from later thought, after we try to figure it out. To understand what happened at the time, it might be easier to just work with the terms “shock” and “disappointment.”
Like the people in the first chapter of the imaginary book, something happened that simply astonished us. In a bad way. The explosion took place in beliefs that are fundamental to our identity. A destruction of the most basic source of our emotional security – our ideas about ourselves and our world that we take for granted.
Reactions to trauma
Whether or not we consciously grasp the fundamental nature of this trauma, our primitive survival system does. And it reacts instantaneously to restore a semblance of stability so that we can go on. Instantaneous emotional responses fall into two basic categories – expansion and contraction.
Anyone who has ever been attacked by verbal or physical violence is familiar with the “contraction” reaction. There is a feeling of retreating inward and condensing our consciousness to a small, tight, still, watchful point inside us. We shut down emotionally and separate from what is happening to us.
If this state continues, we become split inside ourselves, often at war with ourselves because part of our experience is not acknowledged as part of us. The parts that “don’t count” or “aren’t real” can become internal restrictions on what is safe to remember or feel. The fear of experiencing the trauma becomes converted to alienation, anger and aggressive defense.
The “expansion” reaction is related to awareness that our previous boundaries of identity have been breached and partly demolished. Our relationship to the rest of the world, in we were defined by our boundaries as separate and “owned” by ourselves, becomes diffused. We may initially feel euphoric, “spacy” feelings as endorphins flood our brain to counteract pain. Our sudden difficulty in determining where we end and the outside world begins may be perceived as ‘destiny” feelings of being chosen or that we belong in the abusive drama.
If this goes on, our separate feelings, values and desires may become increasingly difficult to identify, articulate or defend. In our dealings with external reality we may becoming increasingly ungrounded, “fleeing to higher ground” where we cling to high moral or spiritual principles with a diminished ability to recognize or integrate information that does not match our view of life as it should be. Except for these principles, we may become increasingly dependent on others for information about who we are or our role in relationships or the world at large.
One of the reasons that relationship experts strongly suggest terminating a relationship in which we are shocked and disappointed more than once, is that each time this happens, a trauma occurs. They may be relatively small traumas, and we may think we are managing them. But these little explosions can do more than hurt our feelings. If we internalize their implications about who we are or our role in the world, they literally undermine the structure of our identity. Whether we expand or contract in response, we are slipping farther away from an open, healthy understanding of ourselves as separate, self-governed beings with full use of our emotional resources.
These instantaneous reactions occur at a deep layer of consciousness, where we may not be aware of them. Even though we are adults who, in reality, are free to act on our circumstances and to choose the meaning we ultimately assign to a trauma, these first reactions are the equivalent of the emergency workers who rush to the scene of a fire, extinguishing it no matter what kind of damage they do to the structure in order to stop the blaze. They provide temporary re-wiring to help us get through the immediate disorientation. Later comes the clean-up and rebuilding.
Why we are vulnerable
If we have early history of trauma, as many victims of sociopaths do, that emergency rewiring may already exist as a result of earlier events when our higher levels of thinking were not yet developed. That primitive adaptive wiring may still be in use, because we did not have the independent circumstances that enabled us to act freely or assign our own meaning without concern about outside influences. First-response emergency reactions may still be embedded as the “best response” in the working structures of our personalities, coloring our fundamental views of our position in the world and our life strategies.
The model of trauma response that I am describing to you is based on a synthesis of early childhood development theory, neurological research, and theories about the environmental basis of personality disorders. It is also the beginning of the entire model of grief processing, where the nature of the challenge that we face is to learn something.
In the event of trauma, the first thing that we learn is that we are surprised and disappointed. The context of this learning is that something happens from outside of us that challenges our beliefs about who we are and our role in the world. Throughout our entire life, every person goes through these challenges. It is part of growing up and maturing as a human being in this world.
However, certain types of challenges are especially painful and difficult to process at any age, no matter what internal resources we may have. The characteristics of these events include:
1. Disrespecting – we are not recognized as worth caring about
2. Devaluing – we are used for someone else’s purposes or experience a “force of nature” event, and therefore not separate or special
3. Abandoning – our world does not prevent this from happening
One of the reasons that an understanding of early childhood development is so important to this model is the concept of “good enough parenting.” The infancy and early childhood years are the period in which we separate and develop a separate identity from the “source of all good,” our mothers or surrogate mothers. In developing this separate identity, we also learn freedom to explore and develop independent knowledge and skills.
Ultimately, we come to recognize too that we are not the whole world. And that we live with people whose feelings and intentions are not always the same as ours, as well as material circumstances – like traffic, the force of gravity and things that are not good to eat – that limit what we can do without damage to ourselves.
If we make it through the “good enough parenting” successfully, the “source of all good” that was in the beginning survives in our view of the world and our perceptions of ourselves as part of it. We learn that we have the power to transform vision to reality through our own efforts. Although our world places limits upon us, sometimes discovered in pain, our foundational belief is that we live in an essentially loving and supportive place. The style of nurture we receive is internalized to become skills of comforting ourselves after an unexpected disappointment, extracting meaning that empowers to better navigate the world, and moving on to new goals.
Unprocessed trauma – that is trauma that is not treated with comfort and support of learning and moving on – literally stops that developmental process. Or throws us back into regression, undoing what we may have already learned. If we don’t have the internalized skills of “good enough parenting” a resource, for whatever reason, our built-in need to complete this developmental “thread” of growing up makes us like homing devices seeking the missing pieces to complete it.
Seeking security. Seeking encouragement and support. Seeking freedom to act without risk of abandonment. Seeking emotional comfort. Repetitively seeking the same missing elements and recreating the same relationship patterns as we try to “make right” something that failed in our histories.
Fast healing
In trauma at the identity level, there is only one way to resolve it immediately. That is to fully recognize that the “problem” is external. To activate self-comforting mechanisms to soothe the pain of the shocking disappointment. To extract meaning from the event that empowers us to better navigate the world. And to move on.
These skills are what we see in people who react quickly to everyday traumas, who recognize threats to their wellbeing or early hints of dysfunction in systems or relationships. These are people who respond with apparent coolness, clarity or rationality to suffering around them, or to other people’s projection of meaning upon them. They are centered in their own identity maintenance processes. It occurs naturally for them. Because they are compassionate with themselves, they have no lack of compassion for others. But they also have perspective about what is “about them” and what isn’t.
All of this depends on unshakable belief that the world, including ourselves, is essentially a benevolent place. As all of us know, the learning opportunities of life become increasingly challenging. As our lives progress, we invest ourselves in relationships, careers, children and possessions. Every life includes losses and failures. The more we have invested, the more we believe that something is part of our identity, the more painful a loss or failure is. Every life includes huge challenges to our beliefs that we can survive, that we are good people in a good world, that suffering and pain are the exception rather than the rule.
Unmanageable trauma
Beyond the characteristics of particularly painful and difficult-to-process trauma noted above, there are certain circumstances that magnify the challenge we face.
1. The sense that we have been targeted
2. The intensity or scope of the loss
3. The persistence or repeated nature of the trauma
Of these, the last one is the most debilitating. If we have a pre-existing weakness in our trauma-processing skills, do not respond quickly as we recognize a threat to our wellbeing or cannot escape from the situation for some reason, repeated and continuing identity trauma has the effect of cumulatively weakening both the foundation beliefs of our identity and our ability to process loss.
This is the true risk in an ongoing relationship with a sociopath or with anyone who threatens our core beliefs about the essentially benevolent nature of our identity or our world. Many of us make choices to be educated in ways that challenge our beliefs. Attending a philosophy class or learning to ski or starting our own businesses are all equivalent to volunteering for significant learning experiences that we can expect to push us beyond our comfort zones. But we go into them voluntarily, bringing our identity maintenance skills with us, and have the intention of consciously integrating what we learn into who we are.
A relationship with a sociopath is different. The learning challenges we face in the experience are completely different from what we volunteered for.
Not one word of this piece has discussed the sociopath’s characteristic behaviors. This will be discussed in later parts. But from the perspective of our own wellbeing, in particular our healthy maintenance of our identities and our relationship with the world at large, a relationship with a sociopath subjects us to a series of traumatic blows that become more and more difficult to process, and that essentially cultivate diffusion of identity for the sociopath’s purposes.
The next step of healing
Just as the first step of healing occurs while we are “in” the trauma, the second step is likely to begin when we are still in the relationship. Either literally involved with the sociopath as our partner in life, or still attached emotionally to the sociopath with hope for a good resolution. However it also includes internal activities of trying to reframe the situation intellectually, because its apparent meaning is too threatening to our beliefs about our identity and the nature of the world.
This next stage is when we first begin to process beyond the emergency reactions. In the model I am presenting to you, it incorporates both of the “denial” and “bargaining” stages of the Kubler-Ross grief model.
Until then, Namaste. The deep secure wisdom in me salutes the deep secure wisdom in you.
Kathy
P.S. Here’s a fragment from one of my poems, written in the midst of my recovery process.
They say you can’t learn
until you lose what you love.
They say you can’t get there
until you give up trying.
They say that the way
is through flinging yourself
toward all you ever wanted and loss
that breaks your heart,
dries your spirit to jerking sinew,
and then burns your hope
on the sidewalk in front of you.
They say, through all the waiting silence
you just don’t hear, that it’s not until
nothing is there in the mirror
but a monkey playing its toy violin
that you see
with eyes like windows into another country.
That you see.
written by Kathleen Hawk • Permalink •
one_step_at_a_time says:
Hi Star
I just read your other post to me, also.
okay, I had to RENT a car to live out of for awhile this summer
it was actually quite lovely – and definitely better than my toxin laden apt.
the more I focus on my job and the hellish mess that is my housing and financial life the less i want to go near this other stuff…it just sucks the energy out of me, robs my focus, hurts my heart, makes me crazy.
I have brought others in to help. they are setting up to watch her online. I beleive i found another of her sockpuppets and gave him a slap last week. i still want to out her. but the way i feel these last few days I want to fade away from the site, and the fucking world she spun me into.
I’ll wait and see if i have the energy for this or not. today, I don’t. today I am more focused than i have been in weeks. trying hard to concentrate and get things done. been sitting here working for 12 hours. tired. tired.
I am very reactive to chemicals and have some very challenging enviromental conditions at home and work. it’s dragging me down and lessens me cognitively, and makes me unbalanced emotionally. can i say again, how tired i am.
One of my motivations for contacting her other dupee is to find out how much she was harassed after she went public. And I started this process before i found love fraud – the other reason i wanted to reach out to her was I wanted contact with someone else who knew what this was. I still would like to check out connecting with her – cause we share a very specific spath and i bet we could do a whole LOT OF LAUGHING when and if the time is right.
and maybe, I can help with the case. dunno. too tired and sick to contemplate it.
but am very interested in how it goes. this woman is a shit of major proportions. i just need a really good nap before i smack her.
thanks for replying.
night night
one step
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geminigirl says:
Oxy, Thanks darling heart for your kind and sensible words. I rang my SIL this evening. Finbar,[my grandson} is home now with his dad and 2 sisters, he is on crutches, leg in plaster, fractured ankle but not a bad break, mild concussion so he still has a headache, but it could have been MUCH worse.Spath daughter back in the flat she is “minding” for a friend. I should feel sorry for her, but my sympathy has almost dried up, she has thrown away everything valuable in her life,ALL BY HERSELF. I have a poster in my kitchen, a bible quote, which says, “The wise woman builds her home, the foolish one tears it down with he hands”. This is what she has done,-torn down a loving home, and chucked it away. What can I say? Nothing is ever her fault! Our new Iranian kids are coming over for Sunday lunch, they have managed to rent a tiny flat[condo}, for a reasonable rent, not far from Royas Tafe college, and it now takes them 2 hours each way to come and visit us, but they said,”Mama, we would come if it took 5 hours to see you and Dad! We love and miss you! “We are so lucky to have them in our lives. Thanks again Oxy, and {{HUGS!!}} Gem.XXXX
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geminigirl says:
Dearest One step, I wouldnt waste any more of your precious life blood and energy on this sicko. She has taken up space in your head for way too long! She will only make you sicker, and you will never win with spathholes! Remember, they have NO conscience,you will never get closure,you are on a hiding to nowhere! save your precious energy to sleep, eat right, walk, heal yourself.Never mind helping this other victim, help yourself!! Why not just stay away from this site? We can get addicted to all the drama rama, remember! But its sick, not healthy for you, you will never win. Just write it off to experience, God will give them their reward in the end, and it wont be a good one! Sometimes we only win by quitting when were ahead. Love and {{HUGS}}} Gem.
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Cat says:
luv716, thank you for the link! I just listened to this womans’ story and she has been through it and then some!
I found the comments interesting as well. I read just a few, but for the most part, they weren’t kind which tells me people really just don’t get it at all. I needed to hear what she said and read what they wrote today. I’m right where I need to be, here on LF.
one step, geminigirl is right. They have NO conscience and it’s not something one can make another have. I spent countless days, months and years trying to figure out my ex Spath. In the end, I was tired, exhausted down to my very soul. HE. on the other hand, was raring to go while I looked like a death camp survivor, literally. When you have no conscience, you have no emotion. They have neither. I understand your need, however, for having to have the whole book written, so to speak. The problem is, there is never a final chapter until WE decide to close the book for good and let whatever characters there are go on living their lifeless lives. Sending you prayers and hugs,
Cat
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huytongirl says:
Life is so boring now I know I’ll never see him again. The thing is, I still could. I could go back and make some sort of apology and he’d be happy to chat. I probably wouldn’t even have to apologise. An ordinary person would be very unwilling to speak to me again after all the pain I told him he caused, but since he doesn’t see me as human, why should he care? There might be some fun in it for him, after all. He might even touch me again, if I’m very lucky. There must be some way, some way, to get back to all the – yes – fun we had.
I hate feeling this craven. I’d rather be flat out with depression or crying in the street than feel this way. I have never felt so sexual with anyone, so drawn to anyone, so excited by anyone. Hate this.
Also, I know precisely what he’ll tell other people. He won’t call me a bitch or get angry. He’ll just say he’s very sad about what he did. He’ll be all wry and sheepish and own up to his faults, but in a way that will make others value his “honesty” and sympathise with him. And then, a little later, he’ll grin and divulge some titbit – something I said when I was angry or loving – to make them laugh. I have seen him do this before, when I was still part of his cult and worshipped him. It makes me absolutely sick, but part of getting over him is realising I have no control. Nothing I can do, except refuse to discuss the matter with anyone who asks me. Still – stressful. It’ll pass though. He’ll get bored. He has my ex-friend to victimize now.
I wonder if he can go on though. They’ll throw him out if it happens too often. I don’t want anyone to suffer but that WOULD be nice – to be left with only the most minute chance of ever running into him again.
Not feeling craven any more. I can spare myself the “fun” that leads to suicidal despair. Give me boredom, lots of it. I can, quite literally, live with that.
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lesson learned says:
Excellent article…
So much to process….so much makes absolute sense…
I want to share that this past summer, towards the end of my son’s therapy treatments, in which I partook, my son’s therapist got into family history, helping my son and I connect dots in what creates anxiety that leads to acting out behaviors, etc….
This article brought that moment rushing back to me. The therapist asked me to go back as far as I could in my childhood, to every trauma I could recall….and he wrote it all down on a blackboard in front of us. He was astounded. My son was astounded….and I was completely emotionless, it was like observing the list of another person…a state separate from that child, from all of those traumas…
And i’ll never forget the look on that therapists face, nor his response when I was finished….”Oh my God, LL,…you’re a miracle. A survivor. This is why I believe your son will also be a survivor…”.
That list was endless. Absolutely endless…..and the child that was portrayed in that list, was one who NEVER experienced protection, love or welcome to the world, exploitation by every single adult in my childhood, mainly sexually, and if not sexually, emotionally….I see soooo many things now…and the reasons that I too, built relationships with more than one Sociopath. I feel completely grief stricken…
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Matt says:
Lesson Learned:
I remember the first time my therapist told me I was not only a survivor, but incredibly strong. Not only was it an eye-opener for me, but it completely changed the way I thought of myself up to that moment, which had been a victim. And like you, when I, like you, connected all the dots from my past, I realized he was right. Like you I had been victimized by every adult in my life.
That, for lack of a better phrase, self inventory, helped me to finally understand the patterns of behavior that defined my life and gave me the knowledge to change the course of my life.
The last 2+ years of my life, since I drove off my S-ex off, have been such an amazing transformation. Too bad it took me 50 years to get to that point. But, finally seeing that I was strong and didn’t have to be victimized helped me weather a year of unemployment, having to move from a city I love because I was offered a job (which I love) and yes, finding a healthy, wonderful relationship (18 months and getting better and better) has been such a gift. Too bad it took me 50 years to figure it out. Wish I had another 50 years to enjoy me life as much as I did the last couple, but know that’s highly unlikely. But am grateful that I finally figured out what was going on so I can enjoy the time I have left. I feel in my gut that you and your son are going to end up in the same wonderful place I am.
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Matt,
Good response and sharing. Time for me to change threads. You are lucky you realized that and I am in the process of learning that I am a survivor and that NO one will shoot me down anymore. NO ONE!!!! The past has a way of sneaking up on us as we are grown adults.
Thanks for your post!
Soimnotthecrazee1!
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Matt,
Actually, I have realized that…
the people that want to insult me and one up me are nothing but a low life sptah and they need medication mangement!!! Backspath!!!!!
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Matt says:
soimnotthecrazee1:
It is such an amazing feeling the first time you draw that line in the sand and hold your ground/fight back. My boss, is what can nicely be called “difficult”. I choose my battles carefully, but, I draw the line when I have to. The first time in my life that I’ve done that.
I think FDR said it best — “Better to die on your feet than survive on your knees.”
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Matt:
Good quote!!! and thanks for sharing and not criticiziing me like an spath would!!!
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Matt,
Let me correct that comment: Thnaks for not being an spath that needs med regulation on here!!!! Wow!!! some need to see a DR. big time!!!
Best to you!!
Be successfull in life!
soimnotherazee1!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Matt,
Glad that things are still going well with you and that you haven’t forgotten your friends here at LF!
Well, what do you expect out of your boss, he’s a lawyer isn’t he? DIFFICULT!!!!!????? LOL (sorry about that Matt, the devil made me do it! It’s HIS FAULT I said that!) ((((Hugs))))) Some good advice you dispensed there too.
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ErinBrock says:
This deserves a look folks!
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panther says:
I just am wondering if anyone else had/has problems with crying. What stage would that put me in? I am having a hard time accessing any emotion at all lately. It’s like I just went stone cold, and I am worried that I am not dealing with it properly now. Should I just be patient? I cannot let myself cry. That worries me.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Panther,
The crying/not crying thing is part of it. The GRIEF PROCESS is a cycle of several “roller coaster” emotions from DENIAL, SADNESS, ANGER, BARGAINING, and eventually ACCEPTANCE. But you do NOT go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (healed) you go 1, 4, 3, 2, 4, 1, 3, 5, 2, 1, 4, etc. in a roller coaster of back and forth emotions, and eventually you get to acceptance (healing) but you will then bounce back to stage one, denial….etc. etc. but eventually you will get to acceptance and pretty well stay there, so GIVE YOURSELF TIME and don’t worry about Not crying, or crying, I can almost guarantee that you will get to a place (again) where you will cry and can’t seem to stop…so just give yourself time and room to FEEL whatever it is you feel. ((((hugs)))
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tobehappy says:
Panther, when I was younger..I cried everyday over something…in my twenties.
After my divorce…(at 40ish), I could never cry..unless it was about my one of my children…if they were upset or after I yelled at them because of my own stress….
After I broke up with the xbf 2 yrs ago and found LF…I still couldn’t cry after the original meltdown, when I cried for hours.
Then I was talking with my neighbor..(like a mom to me), and we were talking about my dad…I BURSt OUT IN TEARS!
Something obviously deep rooted …..
So, don’t feel badly and that you are “cold”…your body is protecting you from breaking down…
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
the roommate has been delayed in another country. and will stay overnight in another city – this came in two separate email today.
i have to tell you – this is EXACTLY what the spath did when i went to another country to meet ‘him.’ creepy.
going for a walk now – to the water. not sure how far my knees will allow me to go, but i haven’t had a proper walk in three weeks because of my injuries.
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TooLate says:
I wish I could heal.
It seems like I have no inner resources left for managing or coping. I left my spath 2 years ago. I am functioning somewhat normally on the outside (working, getting the kids to school, paying the bills), but inside still feels like Armageddon … a complete wasteland. Small stressors still send me reeling for days.
Every once in a great while, I feel stronger, empowered, and optimistic … but I can’t seem to hang onto those feelings for very long. I want to, but it just slips away and I am right back to day 1.
How long is this going to last? Why can’t I just let go and move on? How do I get my life back?
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Toolate,
You are going through the normal “recovery” process….and that TIRED time, that lack of having any reserve resources is NORMAL…just like a person who has walked 1,000 miles needs more than one day to “recover” you have also used up your reserve strength just to stay alive….so my suggestion is, that you read here about healing….and read some more. That you take care of yourself, that you eat right, exercise, sleep, do NOT take on any more projects than necessary…REST, keep change to a BARE minimum (change=stress) that you do not get involved in any romantic relationships right now (they take energy and resources) and eventually your emotional and resource “bank account” will start to get a reserve and you will find yourself more able to handle those little stresses without using up every reserve you have.
It really is sort of like a bank account or a family. When you are very poor and you have an unexpected expense of say $100 it uses up all your reserves, but eventually a dollar at a time you build up your account until you can handle a $1,000 emergency and so on….but it takes time, work and marshaling your resources so that you don’t waste any on unnecessary things. When you are “destitute” in terms of emotional reserves after a psychopath, you have to “save up” your strengths and be good to yourself for quite some time before you get back to where you were. Good luck and God bless.
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skylar says:
Panther,
this kind of trauma has so many components, that there isn’t just one emotion involved. So many different emotions come up and it can be so confusing.
Nothing ever prepared me for the feelings and thoughts that came when I finally knew my ex was a spath.
First, relief. OMG, so much relief. I finally knew that everything that was going wrong in my life was due to sabotage, not to bad luck. and I had survived anyway.
Then, anger. How DARE that MOFO do this to ME!
Then, humility. I knew if I didn’t draw upon my source of humility, he had already won. I knew narcissism was his target. If I took it personally, and wallowed in “why ME?”, then he woud win. That’s what he wanted. Everything he had done was to make me think that everyone hated me. (Though it’s true, it’s only true because they are spaths, so it’s not my problem)
Then intellectual curiosity. An unemotional state, I was intrigued.
Then, sadness. I felt a sense of loss, for those years and the love I wasted on him. That’s when I cried.
Then I went through all these stages all over again. And I still do sometimes.
You are a strong person, that is apparent. And you use your intellect to figure things out. When you are using your mind to learn new things, the emotions get sort of toned down. That’s one reason why I carried a puzzle in my pocket for the first year. When I felt overwhelmed with anxiety, I could focus on solving the puzzle and not feel any emotion.
Hopefully, when you do get the surges of crying and sadness, there will be someone to hold you and take care of you.
((hugs))
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tobehappy says:
Too late….
Sometimes we are too busy to process it all and then grieve.
Ten yrs ago, I divorced my xhusbsocio…(he left us with NO money or credit cards or car!…my three babies and I…ages 2,3,4.) I was able to get a teaching job in February…(miracle!) and hire a childcareworker..bring in a roommate…
While he filed motion after motion…in court…omg.
Then I start the job and 3 days later, my mother dies!…I was in charge or her estate…etc.
Then I bought out my sibs…bought her home..and moved 100 miles south with 3 kids and no job there!
I went thru three major life stressors within 3 months!!!
So, after I moved and settled in and found a new job..about a year later…I had a “breakdown”…
I was SPENT, exhausted…and couldn’t function well.
Thank God for a wonderful life coach I met who got me back on track..
So, sometimes we just need time alone to PROCESS it all and grieve….
Self preservation kicks in to help up keep moving with our kids…etc.
But, if you take time to read and process things and understand that it may take longer than you think…you will accept this and heal.
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Ox Drover says:
Tobehappy, your post above to Toolate is a very good example of how we survive. We have too much to handle to grieve and process, so we must get by the best we can until things settle down a little bit and we can lick our wounds and start the healing process.
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TooLate says:
I appreciate all of your responses. I will have to read them over and over before they sink in.
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panther says:
Thank you for that feedback.
Ox, what you said makes sense. Rollercoaster is what I’m going through and I don’t know what to expect, so your answer helps me figure that out a bit.
Also, Skylar, I don’t think a puzzle is my style, but I know what you mean.
Today was the day.
I cannot take even 2 more seconds of this at the rate it’s all happening.
I got a phone call from is best friend since childhood. His friend told me that he attempted suicide and was in a coma in the hospital.
I have spoken to his mother, uncle, and other best friend. All confirm this. His family is at the hospital with him.
My first instinct was to go straight back to Turkey and sit at his hospital bed until he woke up, and then bolt for the door the moment his eyes opened. I just want to be safely away from him. I never wanted him to hurt himself.
I got his family and friends to hear out what is going on. I am hoping that those people in his life who maybe have the resources to deal with this can be there for him, because I have nothing left and I am terrified of the way I still care. I told them the truth. They don’t believe me. At the same time, they admit that they kinda already knew and didn’t want to face it. His mom was bawling, asking why I left him. That was so hard. I loved her too. I didn’t want to be the one who has to tell her what her son has done. She cried more when I told her, but then tried to negotiate, though she knew it was futile. She has seen that side of him as well. He admits that he’s taken out a knife on her before.
I’m completely shell shocked right now. As I type, he’s in the hospital, unless he actually got all these people to lie for him. I don’t think his family would tell me he’s in a coma if he was just sitting there manipulating them, but I am half worried that this is a possibility still.
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skylar says:
Panther,
can you call the hospital to see if he is registered?
Please realize that only a really selfish and evil person would put people who love him in this situation.
Now there is even MORE reason to stay away from him. If he would do this to himself, imagine what he might have done to you if you were around him. By not showing up at his bedside, you derail his plan to manipulate you and anyone else in his future (if he has one).
Don’t let him “win by attempted suicide”.
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panther says:
I don’t know which hospital he is at and his family seems too busy with the drama of this to talk to me a lot. I asked his mom where he was, and she said only the city. Also, if I call the hospital, I will need to navigate with my rusty Turkish.
“If he would do this to himself, imagine what he might have done to you if you were around him.”
I did think exactly that. This scared me in part because now I know what extremes he is ready to take this to in order to get what he wants. Absolutely no boundaries. Either that or his heart is really broken? Well, if it is, honestly, he broke his own heart.
No, he won’t win by attempted suicide. I just cannot rip out my emotions and totally not care for him. It’s inhuman for me. I am holding onto my own hand here and handcuffing myself to the apartment because I know that this is, unfortunately, a dark road and I refuse to walk it with him.
But the emotions alone are ransacking me. He doesn’t stop even for a second so that I can catch my breath here.
I hope he will be okay and I wish I could just flip off the “give a damn” switch.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Panther,
This of it this way, WHAT KIND of an EVIL, mean, hateful, rage-filled MONSTER would do this to his family and to people he claimed to love? This is not a kind thing to do, it is an EVIL thing. He is willing apparently to hurt himself (I don’t believe he really intended to kill himself, just make himself gravely ill, but thinking he would recover and in the end he would have gotten his own way and you would be back) in order to control you. In order to hurt you.
Suicide under these circumstances, “YOU do what I want or I will kill myself to make YOU feel bad” is the ULTIMATE NASTY EVIL THING TO DO….so you can’t change what HE did, and you are NOT responsible for what he did, so it is “unfortunate” that he did this and that all these people who love him in spite of the fact he is evil (his mother etc) have to deal with this monster and the pain he causes, but YOU ARE NOT RESP0NSIBLE FOR HIM and you are NOT TO BLAME for his evil actions.
Chant that over like a mantra until you get it through your head and into your heart. HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN EVIL ACTS. **HE IS RESPONSIBLE*** ((((hugs))))
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panther says:
Okay Ox…I’m gonna start chanting it.
It’s hard to view suicide as an act against other people, since its self-harm, but I think this is really the case here. Two days previous, he sent a mail demanding a response, or he’d kill himself. This pretty much proves that he did this because he couldn’t have his way. In his mail, he demanded that I admit he has “changed” into a perfect angel and that I am simply too incapable of the compassion needed to forgive all his mistakes and grant him “grace.” He said that he was seeing a therapist to survive the emotionally abusive silence I was selfishly upholding. <—- Excuse the word salad. I am trying to paraphrase an even bigger word salad aka the original paragraph.
It sounds like manipulative drivel, I agree. I just wish he were bluffing. I will not budge. NC is NC. I spoke with his family, but that's as close as I'll get. He didn't die, so now I need to just shake off his latest drama and get back to my rollercoaster of healing.
His best friend whom I spoke with initially told me to change my phone number (after I explained what was going on). His friend said to run like hell and he'll deal with it from here. Thank goodness!
Too bad alcohol is so unhealthy. I could use about 500 beers right now.
Thank you Ox and Skylar for having a level head of advice when I am seeing pure fog.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Panther,
I agree with his “friend”—and I think you should disconnect from his family as well. It is NOT your responsibility and you need to get him out of your HEAD as well as your life. What happens to him is not your responsibility and following this thread of “what happens to John” is NOT going to be healthy for you. First off there is nothing you can do to help him. There really is nothing you can do to help that dysfunctional family, and I do not doubt that his mother hurts, but you can’t fix her or fix him, or fix that whole farked up mess. They will start to look for someone to “blame” for this suicide or attempted suicide and guess what? SOONER OR LATER IT WILL BE YOU! If only you had not dumped him, if you had given him another chance to change then ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN WELL, and they would not be hurting…ya da, ya da, ya da.
So, you do not need contact with ANY of them….you do not need more information. You do not need to know even if he lives or dies. He made the decision to try to PUNISH YOU, and if you feel guilty over it all, HE HAS SUCCEEDED.
Guilt is actually a good thing. It tells us when we have done wrong and when we should change our ways—but sometimes we have INAPPROPRIATE GUILT for things that are NOT our fault or responsibility. This is one of those time for you.
Get out of the FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt)
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
Dear Panther – You now have the opportunity to take the crash course in detaching. Do you want to know the number of fake operations and fake suicide attempts and FAKE DEATHS I endured with the spath????? they are master manipulators.
turn off your compassion. god, i wish another posted whose husband killed himself was here to talk to you. she never wanted him to kill himself – even though he was destroying her. he meant so much to her in many ways.
i am sorry you are in the fog, it’s a painful place to be -all panicked and trying to find out info and fix things…STOP. disengage. this is a show put on to blame and hook you. is he truly suicidal or was this just a ploy. who knows. that is not your responsibility or concern. he IS trying to use it to snare you REGARDLESS , and you must recognize that this is manipulative and NOT to be trusted. go nc, work on your panic and fear and FOG – but go nc.
he’s a moron.
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Ox Drover says:
Hey One/Joy, great advice to Panther.
How is your foot? Are you off the antibiotics? Hope you are feeling better….I found out yesterday that a friend who had been having horrible problems with WEAKNESS for several years–without a diagnosis though having had 100s of tests—has chronic Lymes disease! But it is treatable and hopefully he will recover! He called me to share the JOY at finding a diagnosis, even a bad one! LOL I was over joyed when I found out my weakness was caused by Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever in the summer of Chaos (2007), instead of cancer or worse! So sometimes even a bad diagnosis is better than none! LOL Anyway, feel better and hope your roomie appears soon. Love Oxy
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ErinBrock says:
Panther…..One step gave you great advice. Disengage! NO CONTACT!
I found….when I was in the ‘fog’ of a spin……that I decided I believed anything that anyone expressed about him in negative light, there was nothing I wouldn’t believe at that/this point….so any new info was not news…..and that I was so overwhelmed with my own emotions and situations, that it was NOT me which had to caretake HIM…..I was NOT his mother…..I was NOT his caretaker and I was no longer his acting wife. He was responsible for HIS actions and I refused to OWN them.
I was able to ‘shut it all off’ for him with the overwhelming facts which came to light. And I was DONE!
Don’t put it past the family to lie……whether he is or is not in a coma or suicidal…..it could easily be a pity ploy……very dramatic. Even if he DID attempt suicide……and no ones lying…..it’s still a PITY PLOY! It’s easy to kill oneself when you are resolved to die…..lot’s of ways…..pick a successful one if your serious.
He apparantly didn’t. Bummer for him. YOur not going to come running!
Pretty dramatic on his part…..If it’s true. But again…..bummer for him! I say….How’d that work for ya buddy?
Find your adamant……and work off of adamantcy! Let that guide you. Decide what YOU know to be “TRUE” and trust in that……and don’t let his drama, whatever games infiltrate your emotions. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM OR HIS ACTIONS. DO NOT OWN THEM!!!!!! Start there.
Remove yourself from HIS shit…..WHATEVER it may be……and allow yourself the time to heal YOUR emotions and gain a footing on YOUR life……without allowing him to take you off balance!
It’s like being in a fire……when it’s surrounding us…..we can’t think of where our purse is or the cat or the kids…..we can’t think clearly…..we just need to get out. Once we are out……it’s only then that our brain will allow us to process…..OMG….the cat was under the bed, the purse was on the counter…..kids down in the garage playing…e.tc…… we can’t see anything or think clearly from inside the burning building.
LET HIM GO DOWN WITH THE BUILDING……it’s HIS choice….NOT YOURS. YOu can calmly walk out and watch the flames from a safe distance…..and then remember why it was important for YOU to get out of that burning building!!! Those who run back into a burning building DIE! Remember that!
Keep your head up……
DON”T OWN HIS ACTIONS!!!!!!
XXOO
EB
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
beautiful post EB.
I really like the burning house anology.
xo
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Ox Drover says:
Well, keep in mind that ***HE*** SET THE FIRE…THAT IS THE MAIN THING RIGHT THERE.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
Oxy – day 1 no antibiotics!
wound is not yet healed, but it gets a bit better everyday. such a small wound, but it’s three pronged.
i am damn near lame….this antibiotic affect tendons. my knees are blown out and the plantar fasciaitis is worse. lots of pain, but i am trying to give my kidneys/ liver a break and not take anything.
even with all of this it has been a good day!
I have approval to hire a pt time assistant! And I told the one person i work with about the spath, AND SHE TOTALLY GOT IT! IMMEDIATELY! She even said, ‘they are like children (when i explained that the only people who do what my spath does are either teenagers or spaths. and that was her response.) I was rather floored. And i asked her how she KNEW that and she said –
‘no life experience.’ wow.
so this is very positive.
AND the roomie finally showed up – 24 hours late. and looks nothing like the spath. HA! she seems nice, and smart. I have never rented a room to someone closer to my age and from an english speaking country. She might be someone I could be ‘roomies’ with, not just have her as a ‘boarder’. So, we will see.
got my hair trimmed, too!
i have to say, i am feeling a bit happy tonight.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
too bad he isn’t better at self-immolation.
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Ana says:
One Joy,
I happy to hear things are going well with you and you are happy today! Besides the physical stuff going on, you sound good. Hey! the roomie showed up and you like her. YaY.
An assistant? FINALLY! I hope the person is virgo (he he).
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ErinBrock says:
One…..build on the ‘happy’ momentum!!! Kudos to you!
One thing i’ve learned, and just discussed again with a friend this am……that when we rent…..as enticing as it may be to become ‘friends’, due to close proximity or ‘liking’ a person…..I keep it business first. It’s easier to maintain boundaries this way. There are always times when you need to show that YOU are making the rules here, your not their mother…..and it just makes it easier to keep a ‘safe’ distance in order to avoid the stress of feelng akward if those discussions are ever needed. (and usually in time they are…..sometimes sooner than later).
You’ll do just fine…..just had to stick my nosey nose in!~
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
Hi EB – i have always kept it business with my boarders (i have had about 8). Most of them came to me though a particular group and they had people in place in this town to help them out and show them things. it was very business like, i gave them keys and a map and showed them on the map where the grocery store was. I was very strict with them.
the few adults i had for short periods of time, i always had dinner with, etc. (She’s an adult, post doc. doing research)
I know i have to play it a bit cool, and bide my time to get to know her, but i just don’t feel the need to put up the same strong boundaries. And although i am nervous about having someone in the house in general, I am also very happy about it.
I also have no problem kicking people out.
none whatsoever. I kicked out one couple on one days notice.
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Ox Drover says:
One, good deal, because sometimes it isn’t long before you have to kick them out. “My house, MY rules” is my motto on even a rental property, much less a roomie situation. Just like with my son C, the rules for living in MY house are XYand Z, and the rate of payment is $X per week/month. As long as my name is on the deed I make the rules, don’t like them, the door swings both ways. LOL
That is the one thing I love about son D is that we have NEVER had any problems living together….he is the GREATEST roomie in the world. Whether we were living in the RV or in this big old barn doesn’t make any difference.
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ErinBrock says:
One…..just say…..SHUT UP EB!
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
now, why would i do that, when you have just stuck your lovely face back in the room???!!!
all warnings and experience shared by EB is greatly welcomed.
now that she has unpacked the mold is wafting off her things. sigh. I have a fix for it, hopefully. now i have to g tell her she’s moldy. haha…that conversation sometimes doesn’t go so well.
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panther says:
OX Thank you for pointing out that HE set the house on fire. Somehow I keep forgetting that and end up in pure FOG.
One/Joy You endured FAKE DEATHS? I am so sorry. After what I have just experienced emotionally in the past couple of days, I cannot imagine how hard a faked death must have been.
Ox, you were 100% correct in your foresight. His mother immediately told me that I am killing her son. Then he tried to use the family and the incident to make me marry him!!!! I really REALLY cannot understand on WHICH PLANET people reward abuse, lying, manipulation, and attempted suicide with marriage. His family is apparently buying him a house now to make him feel better (so I guess that’s what planet this crap works on). My goodness! I am changing my phone number the INSTANT I get my first paycheck (cannot afford a new line yet).
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Ox Drover says:
Panther,
The whole suicide attempt was to GET YOUR ATTENTION so he could reel you back in on his hook and line. Of course his family would blame you….who else they gonna blame, HIM? HELL NO!!!! YOU are causing his problems because you won’t give in to him.
Yea, you are right, it is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, and if you get sucked into the vortex you are lost.
Check with your phone provider and see if they won’t change your number if you tell them you have a stalker calling you. I’m not sure if they do that where you are but in the US they do.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
panther – glad to see you posting. i was concerned about you getting snared. yup, faked deaths. it’s what she ‘does.’ it was lovely.
phone providers here will let you change your number for free if you have called the police and reported being stalked.
i could REALLY use a house. i wonder if this shit would work on my n sire?
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panther says:
Ox and One/Joy
I have a prepaid card in my phone. That’s the German way for the most part. I just need about 20 euros to buy a new card, which I will definitely have within the next 28 hours. Until then, I am making use of the phone’s very high-tech OFF SWITCH and IGNORE button. They are fabulous mechanism. Very new age
Ox, it is a different universe. And the idea of being sucked into it like a vortex is exactly how it feels.
OX, on another note, I just wanted to run something past you. This has been on my mind since I learned about your personal story with your son. My ex spath once asked me what I would do if my son came to me after having killed someone. He said this was one of the most important questions he would ever ask me, because it would tell him what kind of a person I am. He asked me if I would protect my son from the police or if I would turn him in. I actually thought about this for a moment, because that’s a loaded question. I ended up telling him that I’d have to turn my son in. He flipped, went into a rant about what an uncaring and cold human being I am. He told me I don’t care about my own blood. I really tried to argue (with an spath? better off arguing with a squirrel). I asked him why he never considers the family that lost their child, brother/sister, mother/father, or whoever this victim was. Why should I protect my son when he has destroyed an entire family and network of friends? He raged more, furious, telling me that I should put my “blood” before all else, even morality.
I now take this as a very strong statement about his character, and I wonder if your son seemed to have this same basic belief somewhere deep down. Do you think spaths literally expect to be able to get away with murder? I think so.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Panther,
I think your X was trying to find out if you would PROTECT HIM if you found out he had committed murder….this is what we call a “tell” where they are actually TELLING you what is going on in their minds (maybe not directly but indirectly) He didn’t CARE about your SON, he was finding out what you would do to HIM if you found out he would commit murder….he either HAD DONE IT, or planned to do it. That is my bet.
I turned my son in for robbery the first time when he was 17….someone else turned him in for stealing when he was 20 (they were involved in it together) and he killed her for “ratting” him out. Supposedly to keep from going back to prison for the new stealing, but he didn’t even try to cover up the murder, didn’t even TRY to cover it up, and of course got arrested the next day. Has been in prison ever since then (1992).
And yes, I would turn YOUR son in if I knew he did a robbery or murder, so why should I NOT turn in my own for the same crimes? My son still holds a BIG GRUDGE against me for being so “disloyal” to him. I asked him once, “I was trying to scare you straight and keep you from winding up in prison, where you are now. Tell me what I should have done INSTEAD?” He said “I don’t know, but you shouldn’t have turned me in to the cops.”
I don’t think it is any “morals” or “loyalty” on their part, I think it is just that THEY ARE SPECIAL…if someone robbed THEM they would INSIST THAT YOU TURN THEM IN, but if they rob someone else, it is a different story. There are two sets of rules, one for them and one for the rest of us.
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panther says:
I think you are right. It comes down to “they are special” in the end.
I was thinking about that letter from a sociopath that was posted a couple of days ago. I found it very disturbing that she was angry at her victims for retaliating against her. The reason this creeped me out is because I am sure SHE would retaliate if someone did to her what she as doing to other people. The complete lack of basic logic is what astounds me, even more than the lack of empathy. One needn’t empathy to understand that black is black no matter who is wearing the black t-shirt. That’s why I find arguing with an spath to be the most frustrating practice in the entire world. The t-shirt is black on that person, but if he puts on the exact same shirt even straight off the other person’s back, now it’s suddenly green, and I am blind for not seeing that clearly like he can. How does one argue with that? It’s completely ridiculous. With my ex, the part that infuriated me even more was that he truly seemed to believe himself. He was either very good at seeming like he really thought this when he knew it was BS, or he was so sick that he actually thought the “shirt” had changed color just because he was wearing it now.
To be perfectly frank, I think he actually believed at least half of the things he tried to make me believe.
If not, then he did such a good job of fooling me that I thought he believed himself, which made him seem schizophrenic rather that sociopathic.
I really hope my ex hasn’t committed murder, but I agree that it was a tell, and I knew that’s what he was basically getting at. It didn’t make matters any better to know, however.
And I hate how that works. I hate how finding out what’s really going on and what the truth really is doesn’t improve the situation one bit. It actually makes it more intolerable and traumatizing. The only benefit of “seeing the light” is that you can finally start to walk towards it.
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Ox Drover says:
Panther, I think many times they DO believe what they say about how we should treat them (though to us it doesn’t make logical sense). Son P doesn’t get it that he STOLE MY CAR to haul the loot that the stole from my Friends and that THAT behavior was a betrayal of my trust and my friend’s trust….but he at the same time BELIEVES that I betrayed him, but he did not betray me or my friend he robbed.
You are right, you cannot argue with them, cannot get them to SEE your logic…the ONLY thing we can do with a psychopath is to get away and STAY away from them.
From the things you have said about your X, etc. I actually think the man is capable of murder…and I think the question to you was definitely a “tell”—of course the ONLY way to be sure of this is to wait until he kills someone, but “better safe than sorry” and I would do my best to make sure he couldn’t find me. It is not too unusual for this kind of control freak to be a stalker, so CAUTION I think is the word, but don’t live in terror, just be careful. ((hugs)))
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