BOOK REVIEW: Hi Gorgeous! The first words of sociopathic seduction
PDF Melissa K. Dean was a new lawyer in a new job. All she needed was a new romantic interest. So she posted her profile in Match.com, and received more than 30 responses in the first two days. One of the men started began his message boldly, writing, “Hi Gorgeous!”
For a woman who had long doubted her feminine appeal, the words were irresistible. More words followed—words that seemed to indicate mutual interests and goals, words that appealed to the woman’s sympathies.
Melissa K. Dean tells the story of being seduced by, married to, and then abused by, Jack Cass, a man who claimed to be a former Navy SEAL. It’s a classic story of sociopathic victimization.
Exotic dancer
Dean tells her story in a new book available in the Lovefraud Store, Hi Gorgeous! Starry Eyes and Toxic Lies.
They communicated online and by phone for a short time. Then they met for lunch, which Dean describes early in the book:
Conversation superseded our interest in our salads as we prattled on about various topics, including the characteristics we valued and disliked in potential mates. He spurned spoiled princesses and victim-oriented women, a group that included his mom—a counselor “ahead of her time,” yet victimized by by his Baptist father’s verbal abuse and infidelity with Jack’s piano teacher. He hated civilians, abhorred dishonesty and disloyalty—especially infidelity.
My bleeding heart was moved by his tale of woe, which he fully anticipated. Here was a man who’d been wounded on the battlefields of war and romance. “I let women walk all over me,” he proclaimed. The three purple hearts to which he laid claim paled in comparison to the heart he said was repeatedly broken by women who’d either cheated or bilked him out of money. “Learning to trust is a difficult task for me,” he said.
Can anyone say manipulation?
At one point before meeting Cass, Dean worked as an exotic dancer—that’s how she earned the money to take a prep course for her bar exam. Cass was fascinated by her former stint as a stripper, and after he manipulated Dean into marriage, saw his future in marketing his wife as a sexy model and dancer at biker clubs.
He, of course, had financial problems, child support payments and no steady income. But he had big ideas, which he convinced his wife to participate in. Gradually, he became more and more impatient with Dean’s contributions, and displayed his displeasure through emotional, psychological and sexual abuse.
Message of hope
In their letters to Lovefraud, many people have said their experiences with a sociopath were so outrageous that they should write a book about what happened to them. Melissa Dean has done it.
Many of you, who thought you were the only person on the planet experiencing the abuse and crazy-making of a sociopath, will take comfort in her story. You are not alone. In fact, many of you will recognize yourself, and the person who victimized you, in the tale.
Dean’s book has a happy ending—she escapes and begins to rebuild her life, her way. Her story is proof that you can recover from the abuse. It’s the message of hope and healing we all need.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
eliza says:
Healing Heart,
I think that is bizarre what you said about the “angry place” mentioned by your S. Mine would always do that to me, as though there were no reason whatsoever for me to be hurt or angry. He acted shocked that my friends hated his guts. “why are you so angry? you are definitely quite mentally unstable.” These are the things that he would say. It pisses me off just thinking about it. He tried to act like he was the more mature one in the situation,eeew what an effing idiot, blah.
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Healing Heart says:
Hey E – I read that the one place where Sociopath’s actually seem psychotic (seriously distorted reality testing) is in what they expect others will forgive. That they are genuinely shocked when someone won’t easily forgive or overlook their transgressions.
It’s interesting, because my ex S would go berserk if he found out I had lunch with a male colleague – even if it was someone who would be no threat whatsoever (like someone elderly) but couldn’t understand why I would be so upset that he had sex with multiple other women. This is such warped reality testing.
It’s mind boggling, and infuriating
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Jen2008 says:
Healing Heart said: “And when I went full NC, he went nuts (obsession with me) and began the stalking, etc. He would alternate between calls and emails desperately telling me he loved me and we belonged together, and at other times telling me I was a cold hearted b-tch.”
My ex did this too. And sometimes in the same sentence there would be the I love you’s followed by what a cold hearted b*tch I was and how much he hated me. Kind of an interesting contradiction, being it was all sandwiched in the same sentence. lol
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eliza says:
It seems interesting how they seem to harrass through texting and e-mail, not really in person. Cowardly. I blocked the S from e-mail and changed my number, and it has only been a week, but I haven’t heard a peep from him.
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Healing Heart says:
I think my ex S wants to stalk me, but doesn’t quite care enough to make the drive across the city to get to my place. Not convenient. Once he sent me text messages saying he WAS outside my place one night – but he definitely wasn’t. It was like he wanted to stalk me and scare me, but really couldn’t be bothered to put in too much effort.
Or it could be that he really was worried about the neighbors – it was a nice, quiet, community. Also, I very specifically said that I would call 911 if I ever saw him near my home, work, etc.
When my ex S stopped altogether – and its really been only a month, I was 97% relieved, and 3% sad. He’s really gone. I actually cut the chord, effectively. It took a lot to get rid of him, but I finally did.
He will try come back someday – but I will be much stronger then and it won’t have the emotional charge it has now. It bothers me that there is a small part of me that misses the attention of the harrassing behaviors. I liked that he was desiring me and couldn’t have me – it was a very nice flip on the dynamics of our relationship.
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eliza says:
HH,
Good I am glad that is a normal feeling, I sometimes wish that I could hear from him so that I could ignore him. But I can’t risk getting sucked back in so I am glad that I took the measures that I did. I don’t think he would go out of his way to come to my house. He is too lazy. Plus he is petrified of my roomate because after one of our fallouts she posted a bumper sticker on my myspace that said something like “Your friends are there for you when you need a shoulder to cry on, but best friends are waiting with a shovel ready to bury the loser that made you cry!” And my other friends glare at him if they ever see him out. I should buy my roomate a new shovel.
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Matt says:
Healing Heart:
When I met my S, he was hot — thanks to the Iron Bar Hotel diet plan (serve 10 months and lose 70 pounds). By the end of our 15 months together he was at least 60 pounds overweight.
He was as fat as a can of Crisco. At the end I would have wrung his neck — if he still had one.
He also was living proof that you can be a cocaine addict and still put on weight.
Then there was his presentation. He wore all this god awful diamond encrusted jewelry. He’d have have on 5 rings, 4 bracelets, 3 necklaces (two French hens and a partridge in a pear tree) all at the same time.
I now laugh when I remember a woman in an airport complimenting me on a vintage watch I was wearing and the look on “Diamond Lil’s” face.
Now I look back at the whole package he presented and wonder “what the hell was I thinking?”
Love is blind and a relationship with a S is a hell of an eye doctor.
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Jen2008 says:
Matt said: “I would have wrung his neck–if he still had one”
l have been trying to catch up on several days worth of posts and I just have to say I have seen several posts by Matt from the past couple of days that have some of the wittiest one liners I have ever seen!
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Healing Heart says:
Matt – I know your relationship with S was very painful, and not funny at all – but your last post is funny as hell.
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Matt says:
Healing Heart:
That I can see the humor in the crazy situation with S is progress in my book.
They say that comedy comes from a well of pain. I guess I drilled myself an artesian well with S.
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keeping_faith says:
Matt,
I laughed so hard out loud at work today when I read your earlier post that my department came running into my office. “Diamond Lil”. I love it !!
The XS/P only wore his dog tags and Navy diving watch and various rubber military fund raising bracelets to show his support since he was such a military man (NOT) but it made the stories so much more believeable……. He bought all of it on line.
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shabbychic2 says:
Matt: “partridge in a pear tree”… you are a scream!
If you guys want to hear something funny… I still think my S/P is going to pay me back! I have been wondering if he is a P or not, even though he is a liar, I know he’s been hanging around with his friends and some other girls, and he cares so much about me that he ignored me at Christmas!
The other day he said he was going to be waiting for me to get home, and that he would be lying in my bed, that he knows how to get into my house. Now that I am reading your posts I am getting a little nervous.
I haven’t heard from him since last Tuesday when I wouldn’t loan him any money. Do you think he will call? I hope not. I’m not calling him, thank God. Maybe I’ve come to my senses a bit.
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Plowman says:
Healing Heart, you mentioned the part about sociopath’s expecting forgiveness from us. I’m glad you mentioned that because I think my ex THOUGHT I forgave her for the BS she was pulling but I really didn’t know what was going on. As far as the cheating thing, the pattern went the way:
A) She admitted it.
B) I cut off all communication.
C) She began making serious effort to contact me through work, friends and family.
D) I contacted her and forgave her.
E) She said it was a misunderstanding and it never happened.
I guess she was waiting for me to forgive her before she turned it around on me and made it out that I over reacted. How in the hell do you over react to someone who blatantly tells you they cheated on you?!?!?! I guess, in her own demented way of thinking, she admitted it and I accepted it and forgave her for it so she figured I knew the facts. The ‘over reacting’ part was her way of throwing yet another sales pitch to me and me buying it. From what I’ve read, sociopaths are known for this sort of thing, claiming all of their screw ups and lies are misunderstandings. I knew when she would go to court she would purposely show up looking shabby and turn on the tear machine so the judge would take pity on her. She would complain she was working as hard as she could but in reality, she was never doing anythuing different: she was still blowing money like an idiot, she was borrowing it from me and was never making an effort to try and make extra money – except for the escort service thing.
In hindsight, she knew I would do anything for her and would try and help her out as best I could and once she saw that opening, she took complete advantage of it. I guess that’s all happened to us where some good for nothing yokel saw throught our sensitivity and took advantage of us. Well, as they say, ‘A fool and his money are soon parted’. I hope she doesn’t break down on the side of the road somewhere and expects me to take her someplace. She can stay outside and freeze for all I care.
I’ll always wonder if her husband knows about her past, too, the does, I wonder why he doesn’t see these things are major red flags. Oh well…….
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Healing Heart says:
Hey Pman – I think we are the lucky ones, the strong ones, the smart ones – those of us who get out. Her husband is in the trance and may never get out – unless he is like us. And very sadly, most are not.
I can’t believe how many times my Ex S’s exwife has forgiven him and taken him back despite the fact that he has cheated on her hundreds (quite literally) of times and abandoned her and the kids when they needed him most. Yet she keeps forgiving and taking him back – as have many of his ex-girlfriends. I think this was one of the reasons that he is so shocked that I won’t take him back. Every one else seems to have. HELLO?!!??? What is wrong with this picture??? EVERYTHING.
My ex-S was just like yours with the lies. Doing it, admantly denying, and then admitting when there was blatant proof…….and then later denying it again. HUH? Didn’t you just admit to his a week ago? And now you are saying I imagined it? WTF? I would say: “Do you think I’m stupid?” And he would just stare at me blankly and it genuinely looked like he had no idea what I was talking about.
Your ex worked as an escort. This may sound glib, but I wish mine had. Then he would have made some money – and probably the caliber of women would have been higher than those he WAS sleeping with (if they could afford and escort).
I hope you can stay away from her, P. It’s hard not to get sucked back in, because they make us addicted to them. I’m pretty sure I finally got a handle on my addiction. I haven’t seem him since July, and have had NC since October. Though he kept getting to me through text, email, greeting cards. I shut down one avenue, and he’d find another. And as people will say on this site ANY contact is contact, and triggering. That’s why they do it. Rat Bastards.
Finally – you are right about the judge – she would probably prevail. Whenever we go up in front of a judge, a cop, or a couples therapist, with these S’s, WE always end up looking like the crazy one and the S get’s sympathy. Because they are cool as a cucumber and know exactly how to play the situation, and we are so frazzled from months of crazy-making that we look like the lunatic, and the S looks like the victim.
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Plowman says:
Healing Heart, your ex cheated on his wife at least a hundred times?!?!?!? Does she not have any self respect? Does she not think she’ll find someone better? I feel for her if that’s the case.
With regards to my ex and the judge, the last time she went in front of him, back in late May, he’d had enough and she was locked up and resy to go to jail until her mother called ‘Frank’, the first guy she met through the escort service. He shows up with $8000 and pasy the restitution. You’d think that would wake her up a little bit. LIke I said in an eralier post, she came to me asking if I would help her pay him back and I agreed until she wouldn’t give me any of his information. She knew he would blow the whistle on their relationship. Now, let’s keep in mind she’s seeing ‘Todd’, the guy she eventually married, and ‘Frank’ who she was seeing for a good year at least AND me! Just like my friend and her husband told me: ‘She’s screwing ‘Todd’, borrowing money from ‘Frank’ while she’s screwing him AND screwing you, too?!?! You wanted to marry this woman?!?!?!’ I am not at all proud that I was associated with a woman that worked for an escort service who I thought I loved and I thought loved me. I do agree with your part about them making us so crazy thaty we look bad and they look like the victim. That’s a very good analysis but another of which will keep me from getting back at her – although I want to in the worst way. I know what you mean about your ex acting like he had no idea what you were talking about when confronted. When I would ask her things that she’d admitted she did and she would have this reaction like I was speaking in a foreign language. I mean, I would mention when she brought it up, where we were and she would laugh and say I was confused. She was either not telling the truth or trying to throw me off and forget about talking about it.
The other thing, HH, is that I have not heard from her or received any type of contact i.e. holiday cards, letters, e-mails, texts, calls, airplane banners, etc. so I suppose that’s a good thing. She doesn’t care about me anymore. She made it clear when the slept with the first guy. She made it more clear when she slept with the second guy and accepted his marriage proposal after knowing him for only 3 months and then to tell me, after 10 years, PLZ DONT CALL ME NEMORE in a text message? She was planning all of this and that’s why when her friend accepted the position of maid of honor, that pretty much told me they were okay with it. If she wanted to remain nuetral, she could’ve told my ex she didnt feel comfortable being her maid of honor after doing what she did. That, in my opinion, was not the way to remain nuetral. That was her giving my ex the green light to her gateway to marriage and telling her what she put me through was okay because she found someone she wanted to marry. As much as I hate to do it, I hope the marriage fails and she feels every bit the hurt I did for twice as long.
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Healing Heart says:
Hey Pman – as painful as it probably it is, it’s great that your ex-S is not pursuing you. Though honestly, it would have probably broken my heart if my S didn’t keep trying. In fact, the first couple of months he dumped me fairly easily – still was in touch, but wasn’t trying too hard. Then after a few months he started pursuing me adamantly. On one level that really pleased me, but on another, it sure made things messy and difficult. Because any communication from him (or her) is a hook. And we need to get unhooked.
Your exS sounds like a monster. They all are. It’s unbelievable that so many people get conned, and keep going back for more. Including us. Though hopefully all of us on this site get out. If you read posts dating back to 2007, you see that some people just disappear, and some disappear and come back saying they went back (and it ALWAYS goes poorly, btw, and the person regrets it terribly).
This is such an awful, ugly, seductive web we get into. And its infuriating to feel this strong desire – physically, emotionally, to be back with the monster. It’s such a betrayal of ourselves! But we have to resist.
I think people, like our friend (maid of honor) can sometimes see that the person “has problems” but believe they are “not all bad,” or would never do something directly hurtful to them. I think only us, as lovers, partners, really see the horror. And its infuriating that others don’t see it, and we look dramatic, reactive, crazy. I just keep blogging. I’m so grateful to this community. It’s a lifeline for me – I feel so detached from every one else. Even though I have kept up relationships with friends and family, none of these folks understand. Even if they try (which most really don’t want to), they can’t get it.
And our sociopaths never feel the hurt that we do. But they feel a lifelong emptiness and frustration. They will never get what they are looking for. We will. But she will never hurt like you, Pman. And that’s too bad for her. If she could hurt like you, she’d be human, and she’d learn. Her life is going to only get worse. Aging is a very unkind process to N’s and S’s. Most people get happier with time, they get less happy. She’ll be miserable, you’ll be happy. Those are the two clear trajectories. You are the winning bet, she is the losing one.
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Wini says:
Plowman: They all watched Gone With The Wind too many times and replayed how Scarlette O’Hara got anything she wanted, anytime she wanted, whenever she wanted. That’s their MANTRA in life … Just watch the first 10 minutes of the movie and you will see your EX in her full glory.
Hey, Hollywood should make a big tadoo about remaking this classic and that they are looking for unknowns to play the leads… you’ll see all the Ns of the world flocking to the casting directors like bees to honey.
Peace.
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Matt says:
shappychic2, keeping-faith and jen2008:
Thanks for the compliments. The further away from S I get, the more I realize just how absurd what he did and what he said is. I still say we need a place on this site dedicated to the absurd things they say “HE SAID WHAT?!” and they do “HE DID WHAT?!”
Plowman and Healing Heart:
I remember at the end when my S was working me over really good trying to get 10 grand out of me. He ran a full-blown pity play in a bar — tears, the works. He tossed into the word salad “A friend of mine told me I should go work as a prosititute.”
His objective? To once again tug at my heartstrings and get the cash.
His result? I thought “I wish you would. Then you’d bring in some cash.”
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Plowman says:
Wini, I wouldn’t be surprised if the S’s of the world did that very thing! Sitting around watching all the heartfelt scenes of every movie going in order to know just when to cry, put their faces in their hands and when to start beating themselves up to get sympathy from someone. Hey, we all know them to be schemers, and they do plan these sorts of things out, don’t they?!?!?!
Healing Heart, your thoughts about your ex still pursuing you were the reason why I wish my ex would’ve tried to pursue me – at least it would’ve shown me she still had some type of interest and heart. But, she already attached herself to someone else so there was no reason for her to want to stay in touch with me. That’s how she operates. One of the characteristics I noticed about her, HH, was that she’s really not interested in keeping friendships. I guess she figures they come and go so why bother trying to maintain a friendship? That’s one characteristic I notice of a sociopath is their inabaility to keep or maintan friendships.
Matt, my ex did what your ex did: use the old tear machine for their financial gain. SOmetimes, I’d be on the phone for 15 minites listening to her whine and moan that she had to help her parents and her paycheck was gone and she had no money for 2 more weeks. This was all done to have me ‘offer’ her the money as opposed to her ‘asking’ for the money. She wanted to go out with her friends. She was probably out with ‘Frank’ or ‘Todd’. She may not have been out with either of them or she may not have even been broke; just more compulsive lying, I suppose.
Just because I think it’s part of our genetics, I asked my ex’s middle sisters fiance’s Mom ( *laughs* I don’t mean to laugh but that’s a lot to describe someone) what this guy looked like just because I think most people are curious as to what the other person looks like who our ex cheated with. She met him at the bridal shower and basically described him as stocky, having a round cartoon face, not very personable or pleasant. Actually, her middle sister said his family is all that way, so in her words ‘the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree’. The two families weren’t even conversing that much there. Wouldn’t you think they would at such a happy occasion?
I’m still kind of shocked at the whole ‘rush to get married’ thing. I naver said I would never move in with her again or marry her, so if she thinks that’s why she had a reason to do what she dd to me, she’s flat out wrong. But to rush a marriage to someone after knowing them 6 months? Guess she wanted to either trap him with marriage or felt like her biological clock was ticking and maybe I wans’t good enough. Like I said before, this guy is apparently not man enough to tell her no and the people that are like that eventually lose a lot: friends, money, and personal life. Why I still think about her is a mystery. It really is…….
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Healing Heart says:
I look forward to having a day when I don’t think about him for a full day. I think I’ve gone 5-6 hours…but never a day. They establish such a strong bond with us (betrayal bond) that its really hard to detach. I hate that part of me that is still so attached to him. And I wonder a lot about what he’s doing, who he’s with, how he’s feeling. I wish I didn’t care. I hate the guy. He repulses me, he enrages me – no one has ever treated me so cruelly. But I opened myself so entirely to him, and let him get into every cell in my body – that it’s really hard to shake him. I’m so glad we don’t share a child with him. I can’t imagine having to deal with him every day. I wish we could exterminate them.
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Plowman says:
HH, I feel every bit the anger you do and every bit the curiousity if my ex is happy or if I come across her thoughts during the day. The hardest part of all of this was imagining them having intimacy, particularly in the honeymoon suite after they’re reception. My therapist says that it’s normal to think that, though. I mean, for her to have to go outside of the relationsip for attention, affection and sex really, really screwed me up. These were moments I was sharing with her. I know you feel the same way with your ex: Why would he do that with someone else when he had it with me?
Friends of mine will tell me ‘Don’t think after 10 years she just forgot about you.’ Well, that might be true to a very small degree but you don’t just betray someone you know will be very hurt unless you’re getting them back for something or you simply just don’t care about their feelings. This is the hardest part of the healing is trying to understand why she would so this. I know we’re all asking ourselves what we did wrong to deserve this. It’s not as if we knew what we were walking into. Our friend told me she thought I didn’t want to look for the signs it was over, and I asked her what signs was I to be looking for when my ex was giving me signs she still told me she loved me and wanted work things out with me?
I’d still like to know what this guy looks like. From what I’ve been told, he’s ‘goofy’ looking and not attractive, and I would like to say that love doesn;t go by looks but I don’t think this woman knows what love really is. It’s not an attachment to someone hoping they’ll make your problems go away or hoping they’ll make you a better person and with the divorce rate in the US being at 60%, planning a marriage after dating for 3 months isn’t exactly the smart way to do it.
Trust me when I tell you, I can’t wait for the day that I hear that the marriage is in ruins and there’s no hope for fixing it and divorce is their only option. It’s not my styple to do this, but I want to be there to say you say ‘You see? I told you you’d be sorry you left me! Glad it worked out for you, you , deceiving, dirty, repulsive, escort service workin’, no confidence havin’ felony record havin’ stupid ho-wench!!!!!’
Ohhhh man, I live for the day when we can all watch Karma take place on those that have beaten us down and left us for emotional deadness and celebrate after we watch and hear about them getting their’s. Oh man, I can’t wait!!!!!!!!!
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Alaina says:
Darnit where did my post go lol I had a looong post and dangit it didn’t post…basically I was saying I just now realized after finding this site that my childrens dad was a psycho. I’m glad I cut him off 8 years ago and all this time I just thought he was crazy from the way he acted and the things he would do and say. I also realize that my brothers are the same way because they do THE EXACT same things I have been reading in this blog.
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stormee says:
Plowman,
My X-S asked me to marry him after only three months (thank God I declined!) That is the typical Sociopath’s M.O. They can’t stand to face the total emptiness within themselves so they jump into relationships really quickly, again and again and again.. And their relationships fail again and again and again… Believe me, my X-S was probably with his next target before I could even say “carnie”..(My daughter’s nickname for my X-S in honor of his resemblance to a typical carnival worker….
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Plowman says:
Stormee, that what’s makes it all the more confusing to me! I never said I would never move in with her again or marry her; SHE was the one telling me she would never get married before she met this guy. I guess this guy either got so whipped he fell head over heels for her OR she kept putting the idea out there that he was the one for her. Either way, A LOT of people, particularly her family, wanted to know what the rush was all about and she told them ‘Well, we don’t want to wait.’ I’m glad love had something to do with their decision! Now this is 3 WEEKS after we were last intimate. I’m certain if ‘Todd’ knew all of what went on between ‘Frank’ and myself behind his back like I know what went on behind MY back, this marriage never would’ve happened. How anybody can sugar coat a felony record, working for an escort service and screwing three guys while telling me she’s not talking to anyone else, telling ‘Frank’ that he’s basically old news (after he paid the $8000 to keep her from going to jail) and telling ‘Todd’ she’d marry him is sickening and disgusting. I suppose if anyone can do it with no regards for someone eles’s feelings, a sociopath can do it. Her friend, her maid of honor, claimed my calling her a sociopath was my way of looking for a reason why it didn’t work out between us. I told her ‘No, it’s the reason why she did what she did to me and, to a lesser degree, it perfectly explains why it didn’t work out between us. She doesn’t know love and she doesnt know communication. All she knows how to do is lie and then justify her lies when she gets caught.’
I remember the last few times we went out, she was CONSTANTLY texting someone on her phone, and she’d say it was one of her friends. After I found out about ‘Frank’, she told me one night he was at a party with his wife and was bored because everyone ther was drunk except him because he’s not a drinker. I said to her, ‘Is this worth interupting our date when we’re supposed to be working on our relationship? I think what you’re doing is rude’. She then turned it around and said she was bored. That was her way of justifying why it was so important to ignore me. That same night, we kissed goodbye and she told me she loved me. When I asked her if I could come up to her room and lay down with her, she said no, she had to be up early to take her Mom to work. Well, many dozens of times I’d taken someone to work in the morning so someone else could either sleep in or get to work on time. In hindsight, this was her time to keep talking to ‘Frank’ or get to know ‘Todd’ better and if I was there I would just be someone in the way of that.
Stormee, I think you’re absolutely right when you talk about the emptiness these types of individuals have within themselves that they cannot stand to be alone. They constantly need to be with someone to FEEL like someone. This explains why she has never, ever spent any type of time alone to try and find herself and to make herself happy before jumping into another relationship. I remember how downright annoying she could be if we didn’t or couldn’t go out. She was so irritable when she was bored it was pathetic. I would have to hear about how bored she was, how we never do anythng fun, how I’M not fun – all this while I’m kicking the crap out of myself 7 days a week to pay for a townhouse that we never should’ve been in to begin with. This is why most of her family think she’s going to miss me because I went the distance many, MANY times to help her out and to try and make things better for the two of us. In the end, it was all a waste. My mom made a great point by tellking me 2 things: 1) It’s hard from someone to change around someone who knows everything about them; it requires no effort to change around someone new and 2) Her mother and father are probably glad to see her out of ther house now, so they would do anythng they could to see that this marriage happened. Well, they way her mother overextended herself for them was atrocious because I NEVER saw that type of incentive when we were engaged. I know this marriage will fail because it was done so quickly and done without these two people knowing each other first. Like I mentioned, I can’t to wait to find out when it falls apart.
I just hope for the day that she doesn’t cross my mind and when that day comes, then I’l know I’ll be ready to make the next move. Thanks for your post, Stormee. I’m going out for coffee – anybody want anythng while I’m out? It’s on me.
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Plowman says:
“…..I just broke up my “The broken apply here” sign and I am out of the “FIX-IT” business…..”
OxDrover, I really must use this analogy!! May I? Just tell me where to send the check!
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stormee says:
My X-S is a 41 year old who had no ability to spend any time alone either..He would be climbing the walls with boredom ….despite all his “great talents” he couldn’t seem to find anything to do…He was very emotionally needy (and annoying as hell) and in retrospect I can see those were the times he probably cheated on me…Don’t have absolute proof of that, but certain things add up… and when it comes to Sociopaths I think 10 out of 10 cheat….
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greenfern says:
Something I found interesting that Stargazer wrote:
“The “I’m in love with you” one day, then “I never loved you” the next day is very common with these types. We’ve all been dumped before, but when you’ve been discarded by a sociopath, it’s different.
Yes, definitely. I think sometimes I search within myself too deep looking for answers, why the S behaved the way he did…I attribute me sticking out with him for so long because of my own fear of abandonment, disturbed upbringing etc.
But then I have to look at other relationships I have had where the break up was painful but got over it and moved on. Those relationships did not leave me spinning, questioning myself, feeling like a shipwreck.
In the case with the S is different. The slow uncovery of the lies, the deceit shook me to the core. When I finally saw that the person behind the mask was a fraud, an empty shell, it left me completely breathless. Everything was a lie. The deception that I lived in for years collapsed within days, left me with no answers or rhyme oe reason. The blame was all projected on me by the S. He was projecting his sociopath behavior on me, making me look like I was the crazy person.
The last year of the realtionship I have started questioning him (as I should have, always) He no longer was getting the unquestioned submissivness, sweet adoring agreement he was used to, so his strategy was to discard and look for new source.
I guess I said in an earlier post that I did not love him. Let me descibe that “unclear feeling” that kept me being with him. Maybe I was completely deceiving myself of what the definition of love was for me. I have talked myself out of what MY definition of love was, and allowed the S to define it for me. Perhaps because of my upbringing I have thought that to be in love = pain, and enduring pain in order to be loved.
Just some morning thoughts after reading through some previous posts
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greenfern says:
One more thought.
Maybe sociopaths are so good at deceiving is because they groom us and teach us how to talk ourselves into deceiving ourselves. They do not do the work, they just set the damage into motion. Maybe the pain comes from the fact that we have allowed our own inner voice to be silenced and have that self deception to be instilled by the S.
I hope this is not an offensive idea, I am not suggesting to put the blame on us, but just to point out how subtle the game of the the S can be.
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keeping_faith says:
Matt,
My therapist explains all of that as flashbacks from the post trauma we experienced and it’s our bodies way of helping us to get past something that our mind is having a hard time grasping. I almost think the flashbacks are necessary to heal……… AND the more we can laugh at some of it the better we will be and the more vigilant we will be next time. There will be a next time because I have a hard time believing that good people who have the capability to love will EVER be lonely or without significant people in their live. And for that WE WIN !!!
If I ever run across a grown man again who wears his dog tags 30 years later…… I guess I’ll know better. Here is something to consider….yours and mine were not subtle in different ways. My S had the loud vehicles yours had the loud jewelry…… maybe there is something to be said for that.
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Matt says:
keeping_faith:
You asked me to check out your original post and tell you what I think. I found your original posting today. I was struck by the number of similarities in our stories. I’ll let you know more later on tonight.
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keeping_faith says:
OK thanks…… considering researchers have such a difficult time studying psychopaths….. maybe they should tap into their victims instead. Maybe I should get rid of some of the anger before I tell them what i think LOL……….
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OxDrover says:
Dear Plowman,
Of course you may use it, and I’ll give you another one I absolutely LOVE—
“I feel so much better since I gave up HOPE”
I used to have a sign in my office that said that, and I gave it away to someone I thought needed it more than I did. LOL Little did I know I would need it badly! LOL
But as long as we HOPE that it can be fixed, and keep trying to fix it, WE ARE ALWAYS DISAPPOINTED, AND THEREFORE FEEL BADLY. If we give up that MALIGNANT HOPE we immediately feel better!
I’m glad you came here Plowman, there is a lot of support and good information here for both the “Acute state” of the painful separation from THEM and also for the LONG TERM healing as we start to examine ourselves and see were WE WENT WRONG with our excess empathy and our malignant hope.
I was born into a family filled with psychopaths, and their “psychopaths by proxy” enablers (fixers) and became a “fixer” myself until the pain got too bad and and I finally broke away. I gave birth to a psychopath as well as had one for a biological father, etc. I’m 62 years old now and learning the things I should have learned when I was 15-16 about boundaries etc. but “better late than never.” They are all out of my life now either throug NC, prison AND NC or Death and NC so I am P-free for the moment, though I am still in some danger from attack from my P-son even though he is in prison. It would be a big financial boon to him if I were to die before my mother does (due to poor estate planning on or parts) but I also have no doubt he would like to see me dead just because he hates me as I am one person he has not been able to 100% control throughout his life. The last one that “got him” he killed her and that is why he is in prison now.
Your screen name is interesting. I am a female Ox trainer (Drover or Teamster) and so I have picked that name because there isn’t another one on the internet, and there are that Iknow of only me and one other FEMALE in the southern US that train oxen (Or did, I no longer do that, but do plan to get another pair of oxen before too long) I am also a retired registered nurse practitioner, and also a farmer/rancher, though my ranch has been cut down to 4 cows, 2 mammoth jack asses, and 1 border collie and the farming to a few raised bed gardens. LOL Still not too bad for an “old broad” to enjoy digging in the dirt or training and messing with animals, but not so much I am worked to death either, or a slave to them. If this 7 days of bad winter weather doesn’t abate soon though I am going to need a straight jacket! I love LF but I can only take 12 hours a day of it before I want to scream!!! LOL
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Kathleen Hawk says:
Oxy,
We’ve got the same mess here. Another six inches of snow today, wet stuff that going to become icy overnight. Last night, I tried to go out for desperately needed supplies (milk, peewee pads for my mini dachsy who won’t go out in deep snow), and the car battery wouldn’t turn over the engine. Night after night of deep freeze took its toll.
But I have a lot of indoor work to do, so in some ways, it’s just the same old.
When I get the book about healing finished, it will be deeply enriched by the discussions here on Lovefraud. I feel like, as a group, we’ve made a lot of progress on articulating the longer term healing process (what I call late-stage). I’ve been putting together a lot of pieces that I intuitively grasped before, but they still hadn’t quite found their place in the structure.
I am also struck by how many of us have background issues that predated the sociopath. And how this healing process relates to healing those older issues.
I’ve always talked here about my gratitude for the experience with the sociopath, because it forced me to examine my behaviors, my life patterns and the early traumas that shaped me. That process freed me from a lot of old “rules” that actually were self-destructive and enabled me to finally grow up into being a more authentic person, to care for myself, and to trust myself.
What I am just now coming to appreciate is how tightly intertwined all of this is — the damage, the sociopath and the healing. I’m still working on what it means and how to talk about it. But once again our discussions have really moved me forward.
I’m so grateful to you, and to the other people who are working this part of the path. I never cease to be awed by what an amazing place this is to heal and learn.
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Rune says:
Greenfern: you said, “They do not do the work, they just set the damage into motion.”
Don’t get distracted and put more blame onto yourself. They “enjoy” damage, whether they cause it directly, or get to enjoy it while you twist yourself up with guilt and self-blame and whatever else causes you pain.
Yes, we ultimately have to take responsibility for our healing, and I’m all in favor of going back as far as it takes to get to real healing.
But we must remember that we are dealing here with trauma induced by people who generally have different motivations and who enjoy creating pain.
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Taken for a ride says:
Hey folks, i hope you are all doing well, Plowman welcome to the place of love and empathy, well here is my latest S/P tale it looks like she finaly ran away with the guy she never left for 9 years, she told me i would have to marry her again or she would be gone, she said they made some great business deal out of state and was going for it, i have maintained no contact and have goten mail and more recently a very dissturbing book, the gift of fear, i am so grateful for what Donna has done here, my road to recovery is a long one, but i am dealing with it, all i can say to those who are here follow the great information that is given and remember these S/P’s are monsters and we are loving good people dont talk to them in any way and hopefuly they will go away, the first time i met her and fell in love with her she told me she was running away with him to Kona i should have let her go then, but i married her out of love and hope now hopefuly she is with this guy and may they live a long life together i must say this was the worst thing that has ever happened to me i advise going to see a good person to talk to and have good friends for support, i just hope that some day they do something about these monsters as far as the guy she was always with i dont know what his problem is but i guess i should thank him for being him, if she did not have him she would be going after me or trying to play us against each other, no contact is the rule know it and live by it.
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Matt says:
keeping_faith:
I agree they should tap into the victims. I finally gave my therapist a copy of my original posting. He read it and said “I think I could use this in a class I teach on sociopathy.”
Of couse I had to respond “why bother teaching a class. They’re incurable. Your efforts would be better spent coming up with a form of therapy that helps the victims since obviously what’s out there isn’t working for mostg of us.”
And like concrete through the hourglass, so go the days of our lives…
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keeping_faith says:
Matt,
LOL….. but you are right.
“Your efforts would be better spent coming up with a form of therapy that helps the victims since obviously what’s out there isn’t working for most of us.”
I have found a very good and very supportive therapist….still I think time is the only way to heal and going back over the pain again and again and again until we choke on it. It sucks but if I could have gotten past this faster I know I would have regardless of the cost.
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eliza says:
Greenfern,
I believe that you are correct about the subtlety of the S’s game. Mine in particular was very covert. He shed his mask slowly and left me staring in shock at the ugliness that he revealed. It is quite traumatic.
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Plowman says:
Hey good evening everyone. Hope everyone had a good day today!
Greenfern, I like your post with reagrds to the part you mention about how you were heartbroken in other break ups but at least the other person had the decency say something up front rather than pull a Brinks job on you. Loss is not an easy topic for me & I told my therapist that although I’ve done my share of breaking up with women and been broken up with I at least, after the grieving, could take comfort knowing that it was told to me, cut & dry. In some cases, I could tell the woman was uncomfortable having to go through with it but some time later, we would run into one another and have a civil conversation and I felt a lot better that we did have that conversation. This type of break up was completely out of left field for me – not your typical break up. I mean, we’re all here because our ex’s didn’t follow through with a ‘by-the-book’ way of breaking up with us. No, the methods they used are dirty, cut throat, vile and totally irresponsible and those that try and justify these actions i.e. parents, siblings, friends, etc. aren’t any better. To think someone would actually take the time to scheme and plan those sorts of exits is disgusting, and because of our good natured dispositions, our big hearts and our willingness to give someone our hearts, this is how they treat us? Then to think someone would actually defend someone who did this makes me laugh and cry at the same time. Well, I got news for the sociopath’s of the world: there are more people like us than there are of you, and I don’t recall seeing any sites that promote the activities of the sociopath and I hope they all never, ever find what they’re looking for and all remain lonely till the end of their days. I think that’s sufficient punishment for these third-rate scum bags who purposely take advantage of people who looked out for their best interests time after time after time. I can’t wait for the day, if it ever comes, when I see my ex and listen to how miserable she is and she wants to talk to me again. Well, after I scrape her off of the bottom of my shoe and tell her to go back to whatever test tube she came from, I’m gonna have a drink and celebrate that Karma has finally come full circle. Then, I’m going to pary to the Karma God and ask it to help out all of my crew here at Love Fraud. (I dont think they’re actually IS a ‘Karma God’ but it sounded good *laughs*)
Kathleen, please let us know when you’re book is ready for public purchase – love to read up more on this!!!!
Take care to all of my heaing friends heara at Love Fraud!
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keeping_faith says:
plowman,
I believe in the karma God too !!!
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Healing Heart says:
I hope that these guys do have to pay for what they have done to us. I wish I didn’t care – that I was indifferent, but I’m still mad as hell. I still shake my head and say “how could he have done that to me?” I know how – he’s a sociopath. And even though I shouldn’t take it personally – it happened to me!!! How much more personal could you get?? I know, I need not to take the blame for it – its not because of anything I did or didn’t do to him, he’s a monster.
I do hope that he has to pay for what he has done to me, and so many other women. But there are always people who will take them back, aren’t there? I think my ex S has a bevy of exes who are happy to get a piece of him whenever he is willing to deliver. That makes me mad – how is he going to learn if he isn’t held accountable??
I wish I didn’t care about him. But its been less than a year since I kicked him out, and only 5-6 months since NC on my end. I actually can’t believe it’s been 6 months since I’ve seen him. He certainly takes up a lot of space in my head for someone I haven’t seen in 6 months.
Sometimes I’m afraid he might be reading this blog and taking pleasure in knowing that I think about him, and our relationship so much. Why would he read this? It would bore him, I think. I did tell him he was a sociopath multiple times when we first broke up even though I wasn’t sure at the time. If he googled socio, he might end up here. I guess it doesn’t matter.
Damn! I wish I didn’t think about him! All this musing about him! I hate him!
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Matt says:
keeping_faith:
Is your original posting “Not one thing about him was real”?
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Matt says:
OxDrover:
Regarding “hope” — I always say “The good ship HOPE has sailed and sunk.”
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eliza says:
Healing Heart,
I think about that, what if they google socio and find you? A couple of days ago I posted something on here about him being lazy and he wrote something about laziness on his myspace status, and it freaked me out a little bit. I wish I didn’t think about him too. I honestly just think it is just because it takes a long time to process all of it because it is so abnormal. All day to day I tried not to think about him. I would feel ok for a while, then miserable, ok, then kind of want to hear from him and misery again. I am just sooo sick of myself, I don’t even want to hear it in my head anymore. BLAH BLAH BLAH I hurt I hurt I hurt. I would just like his whole world to collapse on him somehow and then I just know I would feel better.
My last boyfriend was a complete d*** head. He did some miserable things and had a nasty temper. When I couldn’t stand it anymore, I walked away, and I haven’t missed him since. I want this to be like that. In many ways I was so much more connected to that boyfriend, and I believe that at one time he genuinely loved me a great deal. How could I possible get over him faster than the S??? It is just so wrong.
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eliza says:
I just want to say I AM SO OVER IT. And then actually really be so over it.
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Healing Heart says:
Hey E – I know! I have never missed an ex like I missed this guy after the breakup. Never hated one so much, either. And never wished for revenge before like I have with this one. I’ve had multiple long term (let’s say longterm is one year plus) relationships that have ended…..and they’ve all been tough at the time, but my recovery was about 100 times faster and easier than with this one. Seriously, a 100 times easier – and they weren’t super easy.
This is one of the sources of frustration for my friends and family – they think “He was horrible, game over, moving on.” They don’t understand how this isn’t easy to get over since he was SUCH an **shole. They think this should be my easiest breakup. It’s black and white – he’s a psycho, I need to be out of the relationship. But the dynamics of these relationships are so harrowing that it is a horrible and long-lasting ride.
After work today I came home and worked out – felt good, and then in the shower I just started crying. I was feeling so hurt over *one* of the times he cheated on me. A particular day when I had a major loss and needed my partner (and I never asked for any comfort from him after the 3 month mark) and he basically said f–k you, deal with your problems yourself, and left me alone the entire day to have sex with one of his ex Girlfriends. I’m so mad at her – but I guess she doesn’t matter.
The point is, I still feel so much hurt.
How long does this friggin’ pain ride last? It’s been a year that I have felt really lousy. This was the end of the devalue and discard (I tolerated about one more month) and then the hell of recovery began. WHEN DOES THIS PAIN STOP BEING A REGULAR AND PERSISTANT PART OF DAILY LIFE?????
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eliza says:
HH,
I am so scared about how long this process is going to be. I am dealing with the same thing from family and friends already. They are like” geez dude get over it that guy is a psycho. He said he would shoot a kid before he would shoot a dog, and you have a kid. THINK OF YOUR KID.” And I know it all in my head, kind of, except for that I still don’t really feel like I know anything. And if I seem sad and someone asks what is wrong I can’t say because I know I will sound like a blithering idiot. I almost had a breakdown in the produce section of the grocery, yeah, the shower is a better place for that.
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eliza says:
Dear Sociopath,
You said that you were going to get in shape for the entire last year but you still have quite the gut. Especially for a young man aged only 26. Also I think you should give serious consideration to growing a chin at some point.
You are short.
Goodnight I hope you dream a graphic dream of being cannibalized,
Eliza
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Healing Heart says:
I am totally with you on the fear thing, E. How long does this need to go on? I broke up with him in the very beginning of March. I remember (naively) thinking “I’ll be better in April” and then “I’ll be better in May,” then “It’s going to be a good summer, I’ll be better then.” And so on until here I am in the end of January still feeling like crap. Though, to be honest, and grateful, the nature of the pain has changed and its not as horrible. It’s getting better. There were times in June and July where I seriously thought I was going to die of pain. I didn’t know if my body could handle such a tremendous amount of pain.
I remember, early on, going through the check-out line at the grocery store and being surprised that I was actually able to do so – able to function in such a basic every-day way when I was utterly crumbling inside from the enormous weight of the pain.
It’s not crushing any more – but its still there. And its changed as I’ve learned more about “what happened” (it’s ugly) and also as I’ve been blogging. The LF community has helped me face the pain and to stop thinking “Okay, it will be better next month…..” I’m just taking it as it comes.
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Healing Heart says:
AHHHHHH!!!!!! Just read your post, E – that’s awesome!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!
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