After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 1-The Path
PDF A relationship with a sociopath is a traumatic experience. The definition of physical trauma is a serious injury or shock to the body, as with a car accident or major surgery. It requires healing.
On an emotional level, a trauma is wound or shock that causes lasting damage to the psychological development of a person. It also requires healing.
To some degree, we can depend on our natural ability to heal. But just as an untreated broken bone can mend crooked, our emotional systems may become “stuck” in an intermediate stage of healing. For example we may get stuck in anger, bitterness, or even earlier stages of healing, such as fear and confusion.
This article is about my personal ideas about the healing path for full recovery from the emotional trauma caused by a relationship with a sociopath. I am not a therapist, although I have training in some processes and theories of personal and organizational development. My ideas are also the result of years of research into personality disorders, creative and learning processes, family dynamics, childhood development, recovery from addictions and trauma, and neurological research.
After my five-year relationship with a man I now believe to be a sociopath, I was physically and emotionally broken down. I was also terrified about my condition for several reasons. In my mid-fifties, I was already seeing evidence of several age-related diseases. But more worrisome than the premature aging was my social incapacitation. I was unable to talk about myself without crying, unable to do the consultative work I lived on, desperately in need of comfort and reassurance, unable to trust my own instincts.
I had been in long-term relationships almost my entire life. My instinct was to find another one to help me rebuild myself. But I knew that there was no safe “relationship of equals” for me now. I was too messed up. No one would take on someone as physically debilitated and emotionally damaged as I was, without expecting to be paid for it. Likewise, I was afraid of my inclination to bond sexually. The only type of person I could imagine attracting was another predator who would “help” me while draining whatever was left of my material and financial resources.
My challenge
So, for the first time in my life, I made a decision to be alone. Knowing that the relationship with the sociopath had involved forces in my personality that were out of my control, I also decided that my best approach to this recovery was to figure out what was wrong with me and fix it. At the time, I did not understand my role in fostering this relationship, except that I couldn’t get out of it. But I knew that what happened to me with the sociopath wasn’t just about him. It was also about me.
I also made a decision to manage my own recovery. I made this decision for several reasons. One was that no one else really understood the mechanics of this relationship. My friends offered emotional support, but they were as confused as I was about his hold on me and why I could not extricate myself. Second, I found no meaningful assistance from therapists who seemed unable to grasp that this was a traumatic relationship. Third, everyone I knew wanted me to get over it and get on with my life, which was simply impossible to do.
So I was not only alone, but proceeding on a path that no one else supported. I’m not sure where I found the certainty that it was the right thing to do. But I was certain, and I held onto that certainty through the years it took. Today, when I’m essentially at the end of the process, except for the ongoing work on myself that has little to do with the sociopath anymore, I look back at it as the greatest gift I ever gave myself. It was the hardest thing I ever did. And in its own weird way, the most fun.
Here is where I started. I knew that I wanted to discover and neutralize the causes of my vulnerability. I knew that my vulnerabilities pre-dated the sociopath, although he had exploited them and made them worse. I felt like my battered state and particularly the sharp emotional pain gave me something to work with that was clear and concrete, and possibly the emergence from my subconscious of a lot buried garbage that had been affecting my entire life. Ultimately, I did engage a therapist to assist me in uncovering some childhood memories, and then went back to my own work alone.
My personal goal may have been more ambitious than others who come to this site. I not only wanted to heal myself from the damage of this relationship. I intended to accomplish a deep character transformation that would change the way I lived. Before I met him I was superficially successful, but I was also an over-committed workaholic with a history of relationship disasters. Except for a lot of unpublished poetry and half-written books, I had made no progress on lifelong desire to live as a creative writer. I wanted to come out of this as a strong, independent person who could visualize major goals and manage my resources to achieve them.
Because I had no model for what I was trying to do, I did things that felt very risky at the time. For example, I consciously allowed myself to become bitter, an emotion I never allowed myself to feel before, because I was afraid of getting stuck there. I’ll talk about some of these risks in future pieces – what I did and how it came out. I learned techniques that I hear other people talking about here on Lovefraud, things that really helped to process the pain and loss. Some of them I adapted from reading about other subjects. Some of them I just stumbled upon, and later learned about them from books, after I’d begun practicing them.
Though not all of us may think about our recovery as deep transformation work, I think all of us recognize that our beliefs, our life strategies and our emotional capacities have been profoundly challenged. We are people who are characteristically strong and caring. Personal characteristics that seemed “good” to us brought us loss and pain. After the relationship, our challenge is to make sense of ourselves and our world again, when what we learned goes against everything we believed in.
What I write here is not a model for going through this recovery alone. I say I did this alone, but I recruited a therapist when I needed help. I encourage anyone who is recovering from one of these relationships to find a therapist who understands the trauma of abusive relationships, and that recommendation is doubled if, like me, you have other PSTD issues.
The healing path
Given all that, this article is the first of a series about the process of healing fully. I believe that Lovefraud readers who are far down their own recovery paths will recognize the stages. Those who are just recently out of their relationships may not be able to relate to the later stages. But from my experience, my observations of other people’s recovery, and from reading the personal writings on Lovefraud, I think that all of our recovery experiences have similarities.
Since my own intention in healing was to figure out what was wrong with me and fix it, this recovery path is about self-healing, rather than doing anything to or about the sociopath. However there is a stage when we do want that. We want to understand who we were dealing with. We may want recognition of our victimization, revenge or just fair resolution. There is nothing wrong with feeling that way. It is a stage of recovery, and an important one.
My ideas owe a lot to the Kubler-Ross grief model, as well as to recovery processes related to childhood trauma, codependency and addiction. I also owe a great deal to the writing of Stephen M. Johnson, whose Humanizing the Narcissistic Affect and Characterological Transformation: the Hard Work Miracle provided invaluable insights and encouragement.
Here is the path as I see it.
1. Painful shock
2. Negotiation with pain
3. Recognition with the sociopath
4. Anger
5. Measurement of damage
6. Surrender to reality of damage
7. Review of identity after damage
8. Rebuilding life strategies
9. Practice
The words here are very dry, and I apologize for that. The experience, as we all know, is more emotional than intellectual, though it taxes our thinking heavily.
From what I’ve experienced and seen, some of these stages may occur simultaneously. We may feel like we’re in all of them, but working particularly in one stage more than the others. In my case, I often found that I was “going around and around the same mountain,” returning to a previous stage but at a higher level than before.
There is no specific mention of depression in this list. This is because I regard it as a kind of brown-out of our emotional system, when we are simply too overwhelmed by facts and feelings that conflict with our beliefs and identities. Depression can happen at any time in this path, but feelings of depression are most likely to occur in Stage 6. Terrible as depression may feel, I believe it is evidence of a deep learning process, where our conscious minds are resisting new awareness that is developing at a deeper level.
This path is a model of adult learning. It would be equally valid in facing and surmounting any major life change. If you are familiar with the Kubler-Ross grief model which was developed to describe the challenges involved with bereavement, this model will look familiar. It is essentially an extension of Kubler-Ross into a post-traumatic learning model. The trauma may be the loss of a loved one, a divorce, a job loss or change, or any of the major stressors of life.
This is all about learning and evolving. If the path is traveled to its end, we emerge changed but improved and empowered. We have given up something to gain something more. The fact that this change is triggered by trauma may cause us to think that it’s a bad thing for a while, but ultimately we come to realize that we have not only recovered from a painful blow, we have truly become more than we were before.
What drives us to heal
The future articles in this series will explore the stages, their value to us and how we “graduate” from one to the next.
Our struggle to get over this experience involves facing our pain, which is the flip side of our intuitive knowledge of we need and want in our lives. Those needs draw us through the recovery process, like beacons on a far shore guide a ship on a stormy sea. To the extent that we can bring these needs up into conscious awareness, we can move through the path more directly, because it programs our thinking to recognize what helps and what does not.
Here are a few ideas about where we think we’re going. I hope they will stimulate some discussion here, and that you will add your own objectives to the list.
1. To relieve the pain
2. To release our unhealthy attachment to the sociopath
3. To recover our ability to love and trust
4. To recover confidence that we can take care of ourselves
5. To recover joy and creativity in our lives
6. To gain perspective about what happened
7. To recover the capacity to imagine our own futures
Finally, I want to say again how grateful I am to be writing here on Lovefraud. As you all know, it is not easy to find anyone who understands our experience or what it takes to get over it.
I have been working on a book about this recovery path for several years. The ideas I’m presenting here have been developed in solitude, and “tested” to a certain extent in coaching other victims of sociopathic relationships who entered my life while I was working on my own recovery. But I’ve never had the opportunity before to share them with a group of people who really know and understand what I am talking about.
I respect every stage of the recovery path – the attitudes and voices of those stages, their perspectives and the value they provide to us. So if you find me more philosophic, idealistic or intellectual than you feel right now, believe me that I have been through every bit of it. If you had met at different places on the path, you would have found a stunned, weepy, embittered, distraught, outraged or depressed person. I was in the angry phase for a very long time. I had reason to feel that way, and it was the right way for me to be at the time.
I believe the stages are a developmental process that builds, one stage to the next, to make us whole. I also believe that this healing process is natural to us, and what I’m doing here is describing something that has been described by many people before me, but not necessarily in this context.
Your thoughts and feedback are very important to me.
Namaste. The healing wisdom in me salutes the healing wisdom in you.
Kathy
written by Kathleen Hawk • Permalink •
superkid10 says:
I’m in day 12? I think? of no contact, I am determined to make it stick this time….there are some moments I’m feeling very sad for my loss (not of who he is, but who I hoped he would be).
Why does he keep pinging me? Wouldn’t it be easier for him just to find substitute supply? Does he feel pain too?
SK
(Report abusive comment)
Hope to heal says:
SK ~ Congrats on 12 days!!
Why does he keep pinging you?
Simply put, because he CAN. You don’t say what method he is using to “ping” you. Whatever it is, change it if you can. That will put a stop to it.
Easy for him to find new supply? Not necessarily. From what I have seen, they go after the “prey” that is available.
When he gets tired of no response, he’ll stop.
Does he feel pain? Physical, yes… emotional, probably not.
Hang in there on the NC. YOU can DO it!!! (((hugs)))
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Heaven Roaming,
I am so sorry you have been through such hell….and really I think the statistics are that “arranged” marriages have a better chance of success that “love” matches. But, when we ignore our gut feelings on these things we usually should have listened to it!
NO ONE should treat someone with emotional and/or physical violence and we must not tolerate it either. Being a “kind and giving” person is the kind of thing that is esteemed in many cultures and in some to a very high degree…and in some cultures to allow “family” to do horrible things and still “forgive” them is also part and parcel of the culture. Keeping up a “front” of being “successful” and “happy” is also another part of some cultures (mine as well) and in fact, the truth may be the opposite really but the “mask” is kept up in public at least. Divorce is frowned on and no matter what the person does divorce is the LAST option…or no option.
I am glad that you are doing well now and I hope that you will find a good, kind and caring partner for marriage in the future. You probably can’t change your parents’ thinking about helping every person who comes along with a sob story, but maybe you can at least keep them from jumping off a “cliff” with it. LOL
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superkid10 says:
Hope2heal
Thank you for the encouragement. Shortly after my earlier post, I received an email from my SPATH, and then a few moments later, he showed up at my office building. He’s an executive, a handsome man, and was dressed to kill. He’s such a handsome man, I observed the surface and I kept telling myself he’s a TRAIN WRECK inside that beautiful body.
He immediately started talking about his friend the bartender who he fucked and then made sure I found out about it, he mentioned how the bartender initiated the entire liason “she asked me to fuck her, so i did”, he mentioned how this bartender was the identical twin to his former lover whom he still hasn’t gotten over. I couldn’t believe I was standing there listening to this.
He came to insult me? To abuse me?
I did keep it brief, I did say “you’re not the man I hoped you were”, I did ask him to leave. I didn’t cry. I still haven’t. I think i might be numb.
Even that limited dialogue was too much, I’m upset, he has hijacked my brain, and since he didn’t get the reaction he wanted, I’m wondering, now, what will he do next.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
superkid,
he feels things that we are blessed not to feel. Rage, slime, evil, envy, etc…
That is what he wants you to feel. Everything that he is making you feel is the tip of the iceberg of what he feels every day of his pathetic life. Everything he does is for the explicit purpose of making you feel these things. It’s called “acting out” it’s what little kids do.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Superkid,
Next time darling, don’t listen. ((((hugs)))) He will show back up again, because he wants you to feel pain, he enjoys your pain. (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
Hope to heal says:
SK ~ He can just “show-up” at your workplace??? I don’t like the sound of that at all.
As far as the e-mail thing goes… is there some reason that you’d be required to read his e-mails? If not, my suggestion is to mark them as spam. That way you never even have to see them at all.
The guy sounds pretty pathetic to me, and also a pig, I might add. He’s bragging about farking some bartender, just because she asked him to?? WTF??
He is not worth your time or effort. I’d call him a jackass, but that would offend the jackasses of the world. Ask Oxy, she has a couple of them. (they have 4 legs and a tail)
Tomorrow is DAY 1… a new day of NC for you. You can do this SK, I know that you can. There is a real man out there somewhere for you. You shouldn’t be settling for some SPATH to treat you like dirt!!
(Report abusive comment)
lesson learned says:
SK,
Sometimes it’s just so hard to read experiences like yours because I’d really like to beat him up!!!
When I read that, the first thing that came to mind was the obviousness of his disorder, RE: He wanted to hurt you, watch you react. There was NO OTHER reason for that. NONE. Tactics like that are GLARINGLY obvious with the intent. I’m curious, you said he was “dressed to kill”…he uses that against you too. If he has any INKLING at all that you find him remotely appealing, he’ll use that as a WEAPON against you. Emotional abuse, economic, status, All for effect.
ALL of it, just to torture you.
I understand that it’s hard, especially when they ARE good looking, but really, that fades real fast when the behaviors and acting out happens. My ex gets uglier by the day in my mind….
Yours will too. Just stay focused on what’s on the inside of that “armani suit”, an empty, soulless, cruel human being.
Yuck! You can do this
LL
(Report abusive comment)
Stargazer says:
Hey everyone, I’m just dropping in to interject some comic relief from my Spanish class this evening.
So in Spanish class tonight our homework was to write an imagined dialogue between these people in some cartoons and read them to the class. In one of the cartoons, there was a man and a woman with their suitcases. It was meant to be a travel dialogue about planes and trains and buses, when they arrive, etc. I know it wasn’t intentional, but it looked like the guy had his hand on the woman’s breast. So my dialogue went as follows (in Spanish of course):
Man: Would you like to have dinner with me later this afternoon?
Woman: Sir, you are very handsome, but would you please take your hand off my breast?
Man: I’m so sorry. I’m embarrassed! I was trying to reach for your suitcase.
The class about died laughing. The teacher turned red as a beet.
True story.
(Report abusive comment)
Stargazer says:
Superkid, he actually found you at work to tell you that? What a sick creep. He can screw whoever he wants, but unfortunately, he will never be able to love anyone. Good that you didn’t react.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
SuperKid,
Hmm, just had an idea…
what if next time that he shows up to say raunchy things to you, you just happen to accidentally have your phone off the hook and maybe it is a conference call with a speakerphone on the other end… and several people can hear your conversation? By accident of course.
(Report abusive comment)
hens says:
.
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Stargazer says:
You know, superkid, I think you said your spath works with you. That type of conversation is considered sexual harrassment. FYI in case you want to get him out.
(Report abusive comment)
Hope to heal says:
OMG – SK – you WORK with this spath??? OH yeah, what Star said… Sexual Harrassment…
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
As Judge Judy says,
“Beauty fades, but Dumb is forever!”
MamagemX
(Report abusive comment)
hens says:
I luv Judge Judy.
(Report abusive comment)
superkid10 says:
Stargazer, too funny, I’m glad you lightened up the mood at your class!
No, I don’t work with my SPATH. He showed up at our office building, he came up to my floor, and walked in. We have no reception area. I now realize it is a security risk. We’ve never had a problem before.
He sent me a text message last night “I’m sorry. Good Night” and another this morning” I made a huge mistake, I’m really sorry, you deserve a better person….”. I feel abused and hurt.
So you’re right, Hope To Heal, today is day 1 of no contact, starting all over again. I’m a bit afraid. If I don’t react, he’s going to be angry, vindictive, plot some sort of revenge.
Thank you for the support and keeping me strong.
Superkid
(Report abusive comment)
hens says:
.
(Report abusive comment)
agreenbean says:
superkid
theres a chance that if you dont react, and continue to not react, he might just give up. that type of person won’t waste their time on someone who doesn’t give them what they want, they’ll find someone else to treat like shi*t instead.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Superkid,
“I’m afraid if I dont react….”
BY THINKING THIS WAY YOU ARE ALLOWING HIM TO CONTROL YOU, AND YOUR THOUGHTS.
SO, ****TAKE BACK YOUR CONTROL*****
They control us with the FOG (FEAR OBLIGATION and GUILT)
You have apparently gotten through the O and G and no longer feel guilty for not giving him another chance or obligated, so now get through that FEAR part and the FOG will be gone.
Since there is no way for him to be blocked at the front door….let’s think about other options.
Do you work with others in your place of employment? If so, tell them “My X boy friend is harassing me.” He came here on 4/7/2011 at 10:30 a.m. and shouted at me, cursed at me,….or whatever.
GET A DIGITAL TAPE RECORDER (they are small and you can keep it where you can TAPE RECORD any future outbursts he does there.)
Keep a journal and a long of ALL threats, curses, ugly things he does, texts etc. DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. If this goes on much longer then you report it to the police and have them go have a talk with him. If it continues after that, then you file a restraining order or order of protection.
DO NOT REPLY TO ANY OF HIS TEXTS OR OTHER ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATE. Even a “go to hell” response is a reward to him because it shows you are noticing him. ATTENTION of any kind is a “win” for him. IGNORING HIM IS A BIG LOSS for him. Attention is a + and being ignored is a big MINUS.
Keep in mind that he may get worse before he gets better—many times, if not most times, when you ignore them they ramp up the carp until they get a RESPONSE of some kind. So every time you respond it reinforces his behavior of ramping up. So TAKE BACK YOUR CONTROL!!!! You can do it!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
superkid10 says:
Thank you. Three phone calls today (all ignored), one text message “I need to talk to you” (ignored) ….I notified our office manager that he’s to call security if the guy shows up again…. my adrenalin is going, of course, this is the drama, right? Trying to get back to focus on my job.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Yes Superkid,
it’s the drama he wants. remember gray rock. in fact, go get one from outside to put on your desk as a reminder. And it will also serve as a weapon if you also keep a slingshot handy!
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Superkid,
Good for you!!! Many or most states now have an anti-stalking law, and in many of them it is a FELONY to stalk someone. So keep your records, copies of any and all texts, or e mails (just don’t read them but keep copies) and dates and times he has come around so that you have DOCUMENTATION to back up your claims that he is “stalking” you.
You do not have to allow him to come to your office and you did just right in telling your manager and if he does come he needs to be escorted out by security ASAP.
If that happens, have someone walk with you to your car when you leave and use the “good sense” cautionary things to keep yourself safe.
Get that digital recorder and keep it in your pocket or close so you can secretly record him if he gets to your office or comes to your door. if he comes to your door, call the police IMMEDIATELY and tell them he is your x boy friend and he is stalking you and won’t go away. BE FIRM and stick with your NC because if you take him back or talk to him now, it will encourage him to NEVER QUIT stalking you. He thinks he owns you and he doesn’t want you to have any control over your life.
(Report abusive comment)
Hope to heal says:
SK ~ Yep, totally agree with what the others have advised. Keep ignoring him. You can do this, you KNOW that you can. Hang in there baby (((hugs)))
(Report abusive comment)
candy says:
Superkid10 – Well done for arranging security and YES get someone to walk with you to your car and LOCK it from the inside. I have been in the situation you are in – do not underestimate spath.
My ex spath sat outside my office for 4 hours – we HAD security so he could not get in. I let everyone know who he was and that HE was a nut job!! (backspath!)
My daughter met me at the back door and he tried to ‘talk’ to me. She pushed me back inside and he went away (but he wasn’t done).
I was given a personal alarm – they are rubbish. Get a can of oven spray.
He turned up at my house and i got a thingy with the power of arrest. Then (boink boink) I spoke with him. BIG mistake because when he started pushing me around the police could not touch him because I had ‘invited’ him.
So be very careful. If you involve the police STICK TO YOUR GUNS co if you don’t there is nothing they can do.
Thankfully SPATH thought I could still have him arrested when I called the police so he ran off.
NEVER underestimate him. He WILL return and you have to be ready.
Keep everything so you can show it to the police and whatever you do DO NOT COMMUNICATE with him AT ALL.
These spaths are like chewing gum in your hair – they take some getting rid off but once they are gone we can restore some sort of normality.
Good luck. Stay safe.
(Report abusive comment)
Stargazer says:
Superkid, I cannot add to the excellent advice you’ve gotten already. But just to reiterate, you really need to commit yourself to NC if you want to get past this. Just do it. Eventually, the bond with him will break, and you won’t be tempted any more. But it takes time.
(Report abusive comment)
superkid10 says:
stargazer, I am sure your’re right. I feel so down. I let him in last week. I now need to recommit. Damn it.
(Report abusive comment)
superkid10 says:
candy, are you saying carry a whole can of oven spray?
(Report abusive comment)
candy says:
Superkid – What I’m saying is other people ‘mean well’ but they don’t get the danger we are in. My manager gave me a rape alarm – what use was that when he turned up here, in the middle of nowhere pushing me around? No good at all.
Whatever you use to protect yourself be aware that it could be taken from you and used against you – so be careful.
Being prepared is essential. It’s been said here before, many times…..ALWAYS have your phone ON YOU always have your car keys ON YOU.
Keep your doors locked, lock your car when you get in it, if he appears DO NOT STOP keep going.
You owe him nothing. NO CONTACT.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Superkid,
When I lived in Florida it was not wise for me to carry a gun because I worked in a hospital and couldn’t carry it inside, and leaving ANYTHING in a car was dumb because people would break into your car and steal things….so yet, because of the danger of car jacking which was COMMON down there (I knew several people who had been car jacked) I thought about what to carry that was CHEAP, LEGAL, AND “LETHAL” and came up with a can of OVEN SPRAY….IT IS VERY TOXIC and will actually blind someone if sprayed into their eyes, and Erin Brock, on here likes WASP SPRAY because it shoots a stream about 20 ft. of VERY nasty chemical insecticide.
Where I live now, I carry a GUN–I don’t ever have one less than 3 feet from my hand and that is only at night when I am in bed. It is legal and I know how to use it and wouldn’t hesitate to use it. SO…what Candy is suggesting is that you protect yourself but keep in mind that if you have a weapon of some kind, whether it is a can of oven spray (for up close) wasp spray (for about 10-20 ft distant) or a gun, if you don’t use it, they can take it away from you and use it ON YOU.
Your psychopath may NOT be the kind that would be really violent, but he might be as well. If he hits walls or threatens, then BE AFRAID OF HIM because he has the potential to hurt you and h as demonstrated that. So be careful, but keep in mind that you cannot appease them, just keep yourself safe.
Do not talk to him at all. Do not listen. As soon as you hear his voice, hang up the phone. HANG UP IMMEDIATELY. As long as you listen you are “feeding him” and hurting yourself.
(Report abusive comment)
Stargazer says:
I heard wasp spray works very well too. Between the oven spray and wasp spray, I’d go with the one that is smaller and less obtrusive.
I cannot compare my situation with my spath to yours because it only lasted a few months. But I was very clear with him at the end that he was to never contact me again. I told him this very clearly in an email, and I threatened to turn him into the army if he did not get out of my life and stay out. There was no ambiguity, no room for him to get his foot in the door. It was very black and white. He tested me on this once when he showed up at a public place where he knew I would be. He stood very close to me as a power ploy. I completely ignored him. I pretended he wasn’t even there. It worked. He eventually got the message and went away. Some spaths will act up when they get this message and up the stalking quota. So be prepared. But by all means, do give him the message, however you choose to do it, that you are no longer available to him and that you have moved on.
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Ox Drover says:
Star either one is a pretty big sized can….we’ve been using a bunch of the wasp spray around here lately, shooting it up toward the eves of the house (I’m allergic to wasps and we have TONS of them around the house) it does spray a nice LONG stream and if you get down wind of it even a little bit is AWFUL so I think it is probably as close to toxic and paiinful as the oven spray is.
I had the oven spray in the car and didn’t think about the wasp spray back then….but I think now the wasp spray would be pretty good as you would have a chance at hitting them from a greater distance where the oven spray is for up close use. (also a large can)
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Stargazer says:
Oxy, I’d be afraid to keep a can of this stuff in a car in summer when it gets really hot. Is there any danger of the can exploding? I’m thinking it might be easier to just keep the oven spray by your bedside and carry mace around town.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Star,
Yea, that is a valid point….but some places I think mace is illegal. I never left a can of anything spray in the car though, I’d just take along with me inside in a bag…I mean it isn’t illegal and if someone does steal it for $3.95 you buy another can! LOL
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FightAnotherDay says:
The “mommy” issue.
Hi again. My attorney is encouraging me to communicate the inappropriateness of having Jr. call daddy’s GF mommy mainly due to the fact that it is frowned upon by the court.
(It is commonly included in custodial agreements in my state but was removed by his attorney in the final copy.)
In the following, I am trying to communicate the inappropriateness without emotion and based on principle.
“Jr. has called [Jerkette], “[Jerky]” since he could speak, but he has recently been referring to her as mommy. When I ask him, “Who told you that?” He says, “Daddy.” My attorney has informed me that it is not appropriate for us to be encouraging him to call anyone beside us, mommy and daddy. Jr. has only one mom and one dad, and he needs both of us to reinforce this.”
PS: I did some searching on the web regarding this, but opinions vary widely and do not consider BOTH facts: 1)Jerkface is telling Jr. to call her mommy.
2)Such an act is discouraged in our state.
During a recent conversation with my son, I asked him, “Who’s your mommy?” and he said, “[GF's name].” Then I asked, “Where is your mommy?” and he pointed to me.
Only a few minutes later he called my by my first name! The form which is rarely spoken in my home.
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lesson learned says:
FAD,
I understand that this upsets you. I really do. How old is your son?
But this is exactly what spath is doing to piss you off, upset you, have you focus completely on this and nothing else. It’s WORKING.
I think even if the “court” were to intervene on this matter, what goes on in spaths home with gf, isn’t gonna matter to spath anyway and it certainly would not be enough to remove his parental rights.
Seems this is another game that your spath is using to hurt you and doesn’t seem bothered by confusing what appears to be your young child. I think asking your son stuff like that shows that you’re playing the game too. Don’t play. If he calls you by your first name, remind him gently, seeing what the game is that you’re “Mommy”…”You came out of mommy’s tummy so that makes me your mommy”. Something to that effect then let it go.
As the child grows, FAD, he’s going to be completely aware of who his real mother is. I think this is a phase that will end, and I think it’s quite easy to assume that your ex will probably not keep this gf as a life partner and if he does, well, we know how that goes. It never lasts.
But as long as you play into spaths game, he’ll come up with something else to irritate you using your son to do it, which keeps the focus just where spath wants it. ON HIM.
LL
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skylar says:
FAD,
I agree with LL. Furthermore, I would use this to your advantage if possible. This is such an OBVIOUS ploy to undermine your authority in the eyes of your son, that any judge will see it for what it is. If there is any way that this can go into a legal record of some kind, as part of a court proceeding transcript, it would be permanent ammunition against your spath.
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lesson learned says:
Sky,
If the attorney on the opposing side does not bring this up and does not have it documented, can this be something brought forth in front of the judge as something to put on record by FAD’s attorney?
LL
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skylar says:
LL, I don’t know HOW to get it on record, but it would certainly be good to do so. Even getting it video taped when jerkette picks up the boy and he calls her mommy, would be good. It’s just so obviously offensive. And why did the opposing attorney have it removed from a commonly used custodial agreement? I mean, it’s more effort to remove it than to leave it.
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lesson learned says:
Sky, I wondered that too.
LL
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FightAnotherDay says:
Thank you girls. : )
Lesson Leaned,
I hope you can tell, that I have pretty much gotten over this, but it is my attorney that thinks I should bring it up. I am okay leaving it be.
My son knows who his MOTHER is. I have his heart and his trust. Just this last week, he was crying when I had to give him to his dad. He kept saying, “I don’t want to!” and “Mommy!”
I have definitely considered, how my obvious attempts to thwart their brainwashing may be causing Jr. even more discomfort.
From now on I will just keep kindly correcting him when he calls her that, and including them in our prayers at night. ie: “Thank you for Grammie, and Papa and Daddy and Jerkette…etc.
Thanks again.
FAD
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Ox Drover says:
Dear FAD,
LL is right if you bite on this one then he will find something else to irritate you….and I actually think that Jerkette won’t be around all that long in terms of years…Jerkface is going to go through women one after another sooner or later…..so as Junior grows he is going to realize who his mother is and who mommy is, and I would just sweetly and calmly correct him when he calls you by your first name….names and titles are a bit dicey for kids at that age….I remember when I was about 3 I knew I didn’t have a “daddy” and the kids next door asked me who my daddy was….and my “Pop” grandfather wasn’t a daddy I knew but I remember asking if he was and egg donor explaining that he was “sort of my daddy” he was “egg donor’s daddy” but I still wasn’t sure what a daddy was except it was a man who lived where you do. Then egg donor married stpfather when I was 3 1/2 and when I was 6 he adopted me and I started calling him “daddy” and he EARNED the title….I never called sperm donor “dad” but you know, I only saw him once or twice before I was 17….he never paid any child support….so he was simply a DNA donor. Never a “daddy”—–jerk face is just trying to push your buttons and he’s been really successful in putting you into the SPIN CYCLE in the past with this kind of carp and he is just continuing to try to get you spinning again. If your attorney thinks it is important, then tell him what we’ve said and you can always bring it up later. (((hugs))))
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NoContactRules says:
Kathy,
Your writing is extraordinarily effective and helpful. I just had another encounter with my ex and am currently licking my wounds as a result.
Contact results in pain.
Contact results in pain.
Contact results in pain.
Contact results in pain.
Contact results in pain.
Contact results in pain.
Peace Sisters.
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lesson learned says:
FAD,
Seriously, while I think you’re over the marriage to a degree, it’s clear he can still get to you. I think in the bigger picture here, this is such a small level issue. I realize it may feel big, but it’s like kids fighting over a ball in the play yard, and that’s exactly what spath would have you do. Try to take your ball away, run with it and watch you react.
I wouldn’t even react to this, FAD. Even that notion is likely to get him thinking about what else he will do to irritate you. He’s going to use Jr. in many “creative” ways unless you’re willing to blow it off and ignore it. Perhaps if he stops getting reactions out of you, you won’t be fun anymore and he’ll go create his drama elsewhere, although from what I’ve seen here, as long as your coparenting, he’ll devise these neat, new exciting little dramas to piss you off and create disruption with your child.
As long as you remain calm, cool, collected and allow petty things like this go, you RUIN HIS FUN. Which is the idea. It”s YOU and your SON that should be enjoying life now. Not wasting time on ex spath and his petty set up dramas.
Peace!!!
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
I am gingerly opening up some documents to work on what I need to finish re the spath…and I found this, written on Dec 21 2009:’ I am so lonely I am numb. Life is not enough.’
if you EVER doubt that this will change for you, read that last sentence. because it’s BS.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear One,
GOOD POINT! It WILL change as we heal.
You sounded “crazeeeee” when you first came here, (like most of us!) but you have been sounding SANE for quite some time now! That is the thing that we must work on, to regain our sanity!
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
hmmm, I couldn’t find the usb drive i need tongiht, but found a CD i burned of a bunch of spath stuff.
reading the email from the 2nd to main sock puppet is really weird- and so is reading my email to him. wtf was I thinking?
I don’t know how to define love anymore. and i could break down all the components of the feeling si had for the fake boy – but i will just say that i really felt love for him. i was completely wrapped up in him, enraptured with him, and the idea of him. these are my words about him to the fake bf: ‘beautiful smart quirky deep wild eccentric young man’; thump bump went my heart and psyche……
…..for what turned out to be a sad sack 50 something year old lying sack of shit career con spath woman in Illinois. suuuuuch a far way from what I thought i was dealing with.
boggles the mind.
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skylar says:
One Joy,
it’s not much different from what I ended up finding when I woke up from the dream. A pervert, souless, evil monster filled with hate for me because of issues with his mommy and daddy. WTF?
The only difference is that your spath did it all from behind the electronic curtain. My spath needs to make his lies more real for himself and his audience by actually going through the motions. He had to actually touch me and have sex with me and make eye contact. He needed to see my facial expressions with his own eyes to know that I was being duped and believing everything. He needed vast quantities of money from me to “prove” that it was real.
Maybe it’s a matter of which level of reality you require to believe.
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Ox Drover says:
One until I read the book about that kind of thing happening, I had NO IDEA about such things happening…it BOGGLES the mind for sure. I thought how can anyone be so fooled by a FAKE person on the internet….but apparently it happens REPEATEDLY and FREQUENTLY so you are NOT alone, and NOT crazy etc. the only reason I was not taken in by one is that I didn’t have the “opportunity” to be taken in by one….LOL
Looking at things NOW I can see how I could have been taken in just as you were if things had only been a TINY bit different. The fact that my FAKE BOY was the issue of my body is beside the point! LOL HE WAS JUST AS FAKE.
Yes, it has been a long, twisting, rocky, broken path…but at the same time, I am feeling much more content with that path, and where I am headed now than I was even a year ago….
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