“Women Who Love Psychopaths” in the new Lovefraud Store
PDF Scientists and researchers have written many books and papers about the psychopathic personality. But little has been written about the people who get snared by these predators.
A book by Dr. Liane Leedom and Sandra L. Brown, M.A., fills the void. It’s called Women Who Love Psychopaths—Inside the Relationships of Inevitable Harm. The book is available in the new Lovefraud Store, which launched today.
Although we recognize that both men and women can be psychopaths, this book is about psychopathic men and their female partners. It discusses the personality traits of the psychopath, and how he snags his victims.
Groundbreaking research
The really groundbreaking work of the book is the original research that the authors conducted with the women who fell in love with the psychopaths. They conducted a survey, and more than 75 women participated. The survey included four different assessments. They were:
- Partner Rated Assessment of Pathological Men, which the authors developed based on the symptom lists for antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder.
- P-Scan, a tool that allows non-clinical people to rate the symptoms of psychopathy in another person. It was developed by Dr. Robert Hare.
- An opportunity for the women to tell the stories of their relationships.
- Temperament and Character Inventory, developed by Dr. Robert Cloninger, which the women answered about themselves.
Risk factors
Analyzing the survey results, the authors determined that the women were indeed involved with psychopaths. But the most interesting part of the research was about the women themselves. It showed that that the women who got involved in these relationships did have traits in common, and they’re not what you would think.
The women were:
- Extraverts. The women were outgoing and excitement-seeking. Psychopaths are also extraverts, and this is what made them appealing and exciting to the women.
- Invested in relationships. The women became deeply attached to their romantic partners, which is why they didn’t give up when the going got rough.
- Cooperative. These women value getting along with others and were willing to compromise their own interests for the larger picture. Needless to say, psychopaths took full advantage of their willingness to be cooperative.
These traits are, in fact, risk factors, which may lead a woman to be targeted.
Answers the questions
After describing the traits of the psychopaths and the women who love them, Brown and Leedom discuss the relationship dynamics—how the predators hold on to the women even when it was apparent that the relationship was unhealthy.
For women who have been in these relationships, Women Who Love Psychopaths answers the question, “How did this happen?” And by identifying the temperamental characteristics that make women susceptible to psychopaths, it may prevent you, or someone you know, from falling into the trap.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
darwinsmom says:
I will have to reread some of the latter chapters, but I liked the book very much, because it is very victim focused.
First you get an explanation on the several Dramatic disorders, why there are such discussions about it, how the several disorders overlap and that one with one disorder often has another of the disorder as well. And eventually gives Hare’s non-clinical list of pyschopath “traits” for people who cannot perform a clinical test. And the author indeed stresses, that all discussions on clinical diagnosis and laymen aside, it is very important that victims become aware that someone with psychopathic traits will do them inevitable harm, that it’s not their fault, that they cannot help them.
Sadly enough the Hare psychopathy trait list is not freely published on the internet (you can buy it, or like in this book). It’s exactly what imo should be freely available for victims having questions about their partner. Including the explanation that several of those traits can do a lot of damage to the other partner.
Then there’s a overview chapter on the theories of what causes it and the brain of someone with psychopathic traits.
Chapter 7 and 8 are about the victim profile: temperament and character. You’ve seen my response on reading the temperament part. And how shattered I felt when looking in the temperament mirror. The character part was less devestating to me, because that is mostly about our eagerness to please, and that is something we recognize already, and that is more obvious why were targeted. What becomes very clear though is that we fell for the creeps and stayed with the creeps exactly because we were strong, healthy, self-loving women. This was hurtful for me, because up till now I had thought that it was that strength that made it hard for him to damage me deeply. And now it turns out, it was the trap more fully and completely than I realized until now.
Then the author explains in depth what exactly happens during the attraction, attachment and bonding phase. Basically, yes, a hormonal coctail bond is created that makes us addicted and imprints us, to forever have good memories with strong feelings, that will overcome the bad experiences. Add the chapter on how they are naturals in trancing us out, hypnotizing us and using suggestibility… and you get the image on how they imprint and wire this “feel good” phase into our neural paths. Mine would of course use words, and gazing, but he was especially good in hypnotic touch. Bad at massages, but just brushing his fingers over my face or my arm together with his sultry hypnotic voice… bam and the chemical coctail is released again in the brain to feel “it’s all gonna be alright again.”
The chapters afterwards are about the stages, and mostly how it affects the victims… how certainly the middle stage becomes damaging because the victim is having 2 relationships (one with the fake good guy, and one with the glimpses of the evil behind the mask) and how this causes cognitive dissonance within the victim, even if he’s not gaslighting her. Combined with understanding the chemical coctail bond originally created within the victim, I now more fully understand why I was unable to actually leave him, when I had decided to. It’s hard in a “normal” relationship, especially for our temperaments. It’s even harder in a psychopathy bond.
Eventually she specifies what particularly a therapist ought to be made aware of when treating the victim: that it’s about cognitive dissonance and PTSD, but also that an encounter with a new P is not just PTSD but an actual new trauma. I have an appointment with my therapist (who group therapied me for ID-crisis when I was 24) for next week, and I will be able to tell her why I think I need to see her again after so long a time, and what I probably will need help with.
All in all, I felt this was a very helpful book to help me understand what was happening in the relationship, why, and what may be the aftermath effects of the relationship (rather than the break-up)
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Ox Drover says:
Darwin’s mom,
There is some circular logic in the PCL-R in diagnosing a certain sub-set of Ps (criminals mostly) and it is useful for that, but not necessarily even useful for “free world” psychopathic diagnosis.
The DSMs are not intended for use by the general public either, and neither is the PCL-R, just as Moseby’s Diagnostic manual is not intended for use by the average person on the street. Words that are used medically in a way that is different from most common useage by people on the street.
While the DSM IV is on the internet, too many people who are supremely UNQUALIFIED to interpret the information there are using it to “diagnose” mental disorders and illness.
That is why therapists are not qualified to prescribe or dispense medications, and psychiatrists are….As an advanced practice nurse I was qualified to diagnose and to prescribe within certain bounds, but I never thought that made me the equal of a psychiatrist in ability, knowledge or practice. I frequently consulted with psychiatrists or with physicians in my practice of medicine and therapy….usually on a daily basis.
Funny thing too.. Dr. Leedom is a wonderful psychiatrist and well trained and insightful, and SHE got conned by a psychopath in her personal life, and actually, when I first came here and “met” her and learned about her story, I was pretty DOWN on myself as a professional getting conned personally. Yet, it was comforting to me to know that someone with MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGE OF PSYCHOLOGY AND MEDICINE was also conned. It wasn’t just me being a STOOOPID or UNEDUCATED professional. I was NO ALONE.
So I can only imagine how someone without any knowledge of psychopathy at all would feel after being conned. Now, I am doing my best to LEARN about psychopaths, but also to learn about ME, and why I became a victim, even though I could “spot” it more readily in those not close to me, and why I was BLIND to the dysfunction in my OWN LIFE….I’m human is why. I’m just like any other person who wants to believe the best about those thy love and who uses denial to remain BLIND to those things that are too emotionally painful to accept as a defense mechanism to all me to not face that unacceptable and horrible pain that goes along with knowing your lover/parent/child/beloved friend is EVIL.
It is a long hard road to accepting the truth, and internalizing it. A long road to healing the wounds that are inflicted and finding new ways to function, to set boundaries and to love and care for yourself FIRST. I’m still working on that road and though the grade has leveled out some in the years I have been working on traveling that road, there are still pot holes in that road, ditches to of all into and broken glass to cut my bare feet as I walk it, but I know now that as long as I am DETERMINED, I can over come whatever happens. Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book “Man’s search for meaning” which he wrote after coming out of the Nazi camps about how we are EMOTIONALLY wounded by abuse and how different people react to that abuse differently, was the key to starting me on the road to healing, that and LoveFraud…Donna and Dr. Liane Leedom’s guidance and beacons helped me. I will forever be grateful to them for that.
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adamsrib says:
KD,
I would like to respectfully disagree with this statement:
“Throw out the bottom feeders. If you know they’ve dated someone sleezy, they are not for you”.
I know what you are trying to say but in all reality everybody here on LF has dated “someone sleazy” and we are all pretty good people that would love to have a healthy relationship.
I was worried about that exact backlash after I dumped the turd but let me tell you all of his friends came out of the woodwork wanting to date me. They know what kind of woman I am. Some are good guys some not so good. I know them all well but I did not go there…noooo
I discussed this with my sister and she said if someone really likes us they won’t be so quick to judge.
Just looking at it from a different angle.
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darwinsmom says:
Ah but the list in the book is not the PCL-R test. That one I know is to be used by professionals for clinical diagnosis. Hare also developed a P-scan, the The Partner-Rated Assessment of Pathologic Men (PRA) Checklist48. It was developed by Hare to help partners assess Psychopathic Traits in their partner they start to have doubts about (note “traits” not the diagnosis of the disorder itself). Hare does not say that the checklist is a good basis for diagnosis on the disorder or any other dramatic disorder, but is a tool for someone who experiences the relationship with someone with a high prevalance of showing traits and behaviours that also belong the Drama-disorders.
It is quite possible that the person is a borderliner, or narcistic, or antisocial, or is psychopath, or has a bit of the wide range of the spectrum.
But it is important for ther partners to realize that they are at least with someone who will certainly end up harming them some way or the other and are themselves unable to help the other as they might originally hoped. It’s a list of red flags…
Arrogant
Charming
Easily bored
Thrill seeking
Frequent lying
Conning for fun
Conning for profit
Lacks guilt
Lacks remorse
Stealing
Impulsive behavior
Constantly on phone
Constantly on Internet
Always upbeat or angry
Hyperactive
Poor sleep
Controlling
Disrespects authority
…
and a whole other set of behaviours mentioned in a
laymen language… 43 in total
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Ox Drover says:
Yes, just because the PCL-R is for professionals and really more for the criminal element, doesn’t mean that we can’t look at things from a realistic (if not clinical) standpoint and see that someone is TOXIC….or high in the TRAITS of a dysfunctional person who is not a good relationship bet.
I can look at a guy who gets drunk every night and see that he is not likely to be good “relationship material.” LOL So yes, seeing a PATTERN in behaviors that are counterproductive to any relationship is a good thing. I definitely agree that it is reasonable for the average person to use.
Unfortunately, too many of us, WAAAAAY too many of us have been groomed to think that we are RESPONSIBLE for fixing these problems in this person and THEN they will be happy and we will be happy. NOPE, NOT GONNA HAPPEN. LOL
I have made up my own “list” of “deal breakers” that is short, sweet and straight to the point —and no one who violates these rules, no matter what other “positives’ they have gets past the FORCE FIELD that guards my “inner circle of trust.”
1. Honest–if they are dishonest, ZAP they are out.
2. Kind–if they are UNkind, ZAP, they are out
3. Compassionate–if they are Not compassionate people–ZAP they are out
4. Responsible–that means do what they say they will do, takes responsibility for providing for themselves, live up to the responsibilities to society, family, job, etc. Not unduly risk taking. If they don’t, then ZAP the force field fries them!
Any ONE of these things is enough to qualify someone to be FLUNG out of my inner trust circle no matter how long they have dwelled there in the past.
My standards are pretty high and I don’t apologize for that high standard. I’ve lived my entire life making excuses for those who treated me dishonestly, unkindly, irresponsibly, and without compassion. NO MORE. LIFE IS GOOD. LIFE IS PEACEFUL. LIFE IS CALM. LIFE HAS INTEREST, BUT NO DRAMA.
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darwinsmom says:
I watched for those 4 too. The problem was that by the time I could see that he was not always honest, not always kind, not always compassionate, not always responsible, I let them fly under the radar or accept his excuse for it, or eventually make my own excuses for him based on previous times it happened. Even his stealing in the supermarket became something twistedly positive, because he told me he was doing it to spare my purse.
But that P-scan list would have helped me big time when I was aready in the relationship and I was starting to have doubts, whether I was right in being upset with him.
Last year when I searched for information on sociopaths and psychopaths based on the remark someone made on a forum about her relationship I could have used that list tremendously. And I would
have had to check at least 27 items on the list.
I was actually doubting very much at the time whether
the relationship was any good for me. But the clinical lists seemed so vague, that I wasn’t sure that what I was seeing was within normal or unhealthy range.
And though the bond was there, he hadn’t been around me for months, and I was not even sure whether I wanted to even visit him. He was obviously worried at the time I’d slip away, chasing me every day over the internet in the hope of finding me. And his chasing was even having the opposite effect somewhat. But I found it so hard at first glance to find a useful list with example behaviour, that I pushed
the possibility aside. Eventually I decided to visit anyway. Wasn’t sure whether I still wanted to be with him, but at least I wanted to be fair and do it face to face. Big mistake!
So yeah, I see a good helpful tool for women (or men) who haven’t got a clue, are split between well he/she was wonderful, but the rest seems over the top. And if had I come across that checklist freely and easily as the nr1 link in google, I might have had enough reasonable grounds in my own eyes to throw in the towel. Of course, now I recognize everything, but well only after being discarded.
So, I find it a great pity that when people attempt to educate the public that the P-scan is not freely available, while the clinical one that no non-professional is supposed to use is freely out there.
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candy says:
Been watching the Waltons – a real tear-jerker of an episode but with a happy ending. I love their simple story lines. Good old fashioned entertainment. Now that’s the kind of ‘drama’ I like. Empathy is working overtime here.
Someone pass the tissues please…… sniff, sniff, sob, sob.
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candy says:
Darwin – how about we put a copy of that list on the back of every public toilet door?
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darwinsmom says:
hehehe…
I have this book of “He’s just not that in to you,” but of course with the lovebombing that book was totally useless for me in that relationship, because it’s written from a perspective of dating healthy men.
Of course we must listen to our guts. And now the honesty and responsibility are absolute dealbreakers for me. But last year I was not informed enough. Heck I even felt a little bit guilty and weirded out to check for the pathology. I was a totally unsuspecting victim. And even if a site mentioned to buy a book on it, I was not gonna buy a book on something that I wasn’t even sure on it being the problem. And I was not gonna search a whole day on the internet either.
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candy says:
Darwin – Your post is conjuring up funny images of you and him, a candlelit dinner and all the while you have the book under the table ticking off your check list – brilliant:)
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darwinsmom says:
roflol
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darwinsmom says:
but they kinda help when you have your head in the clouds :p I used to get so confused by dating. I absolutely abhor the Mars and Venus books. It only gave me this silly idea that if I dated according to the advice the guy sitting opposite from me would fall in love. The “he’s not that into you,” is helpful to just get rid of that hope… on healthy guys with issues, or not that much interested. But a P ain’t healthy, and he does things differently.
Emotional derogatory comments were a dealbreaker for me. There were 2 moments where I felt he was trying to put me down, but I calmly and assertively told him “to never do that again, or I would walk.” And I seriously meant it. He never attempted it anymore.
Twice he tried to blackmail me:
1 threatening to leave and I ended up helping to put his bags outside the door, as he walked off with his bags packed still inside.
2 and once he tried to say that by not welcoming his sexual initiative when he came home drunk in the week at 4am waking me up I was pushing him to sleep around. My reply to that was, “If you truly think that, then you are free to take your stuff, and stay with the other girl you can find who wishes to take you in.”
But everything else was so unfamiliar to me and so unexpected, and sometimes seemed so explainable or harmless. Now I know there are no harmless lies, and that even if life is tough that somebody who really wants out of their troubles will actually do something about it.
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myheart says:
Ex spath used the word “conditioning” a lot. Initially he started on children, and he said wih a lot of proud, that children can be conditioned to do what do you want them to do and they will do this unconciously. Then he turned on me, and I asked him, so are you trying to condition me as well. Yes he was, and he did it in more subtle way.
Today even he is gone from life 10 months ago, certain friends I don’t call, because he disapproved them. And subconciously I don’t want to make him upset. Isn’t this crazy????
So now after reading the posts here, I realized he was doing all this intentionally, it was not like this was something good he believed in, I did mention to one of my freinds about his conditioning, she said, yes they did it in Vet war, so kids can kill without using emotions, it was to make them killer not human.
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darwinsmom says:
Thanks Katydid and one/joy and adamsrib for the support and the reminders.
It was a harsh confrontation for me last night. And while I knew what you were saying was true, I could not feel it at that moment. All I saw was the 100% unconditional love I felt for myself when I met the sleeze, and how I had given myself in the hands of the sleeze to use it as a murder weapon on my identity. I saw and felt the bullet smash the mirror with my reflection, and for a moment it felt like with the reflection myself was being shattered. That was why I was weeping as I picked up the shards of all the hard work I did for myself and my life since I was 24. I was afraid that it was all for nothing after all.
But slowly, today, I was able to internalize that I am still who I am, because well it’s my identity. And there’s nothing wrong with who I am, quirks and flaws and all. The only thing that got hit was the reflection. Even without the mirror, I still exist, know who I am, know who I need to be, know what I want out of life, and know that I have to love myself. I’m alright and I survived.
And so sharing a song on loving ourselves…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq86e4Fhja0
This made me smile today.
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adamsrib says:
Darwinsmom, that was really nice. India Arie. LOVED IT!
My BFF Adam told me today “when we know who we are, we can let others be who they are and that’s where happiness in a relationship comes from”.
So glad you are in a good place luv!!!!!
YES WE HAVE SURVIVED WOOHOO:)
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nolarn2bcop says:
I loved the India Arie. She’s one of those artists that makes me happy to hear her and watch her. I saw her in concert once and she was great.
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adamsrib says:
Saw this on Huff Post today:
Five Reasons to Be Concerned Your Husband is a Psychopath
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....61092.html
Number 5-constant reading of Hare’s material=oh my (quoting hens)……
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adamsrib says:
Has anyone read “When You Love a Man Who Loves Himself” by Dr. Keith Campbell?
I can’t get it at my library but Amazon used has it. Is it worth the read?
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I_survived_The_Bastard says:
At Ox Drover re your comment about the Game on page 1. In some ways I agree with you but in some instances its quite helpful for the vic ‘feeling’ better as they have got one over on the spath.
For me, having already kicked him out and about 2-3 months into rebuilding my life I found a page of his bank statements which should, while I had been struggling to keep us afloat in terms of paying rent, bills etc, he had had over £1,200 in his account but I hadn’t seen a penny of it. Well as you can imagine I was REALLY annoyed, to say the least lol.
I had been receiving debt collection letters for him at my address and just been sending them back with his new address on it. After having seen the bank statement I decided to open one and ring them. I spoke to a very nice man and told him the situation and said did the company want his new address, which of course they did want. I then asked if they wanted all the aliases that I had discovered, to which the man said Yes please.
I heard through a friend that the Baliffs had turned up with the police, taken all his possessions including MY laptop which he had taken and for which I was still paying for and arrested both him and his new girlfriend. Apparently I was now The Bitch from Hell.
I can tell you it felt great, fantastic and I laughed so much and felt a lot better.
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Eva says:
I survived the bastard,
Laughing is so healthy. And “malignant “laughing is sometimes so healthy and fair, too…
And what about laughing at the long-term patsies.. That must be something exquisite…
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Ox Drover says:
Dear I survived,
Actually, what you did by telling the companies he was cheating where he was and the fake names he was using is JUSTICE not revenge….your motive might have been “revenge” but ultimately you were helping him be caught for committing a CRIME of fraud.
I see nothing wrong with turning in someone who is committing a crime or is about to. I have done it….I turned my P-son in to the police for robbing our friends’ business (and using my car which he had stolen out of my yard to use to haul the loot) He still hates me 23 years later for this “betrayal”—LOL The next person who turned him in he killed though….
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geminigirl says:
Dear I survived, Oxy and all of you know that recently I “outed” my spath daughter, by telling her boss about her lies. She is a so-called Journalist,{actually has no qualifications at all,} but she does write well. } She was writing this column ina kids travel mag, all about her lovely blended family, her “significant other,” and how she makes elaborate cut lunches for the kids every day, tiny sausage rolls, small quiches, indiv. fruit salads in Tupperware,she actually only gets to see her kids at weekends,as her ex has FT custody of them.I put a comment in the box under her article, re her lies,-she was sacked the next day.Now my ex SIL wont talk to me, and is in the huff about this, so Ive even LESs chance of seeing my Gkids. havent seen them for 2 years. Am I sorry I outed her? No. I got so sick of reading all her lies. Ive prob done a lot of people a favour. Everyone now knows shes a fake, a con, a cheat and a liar.She stole $28,500 from one company and laundered it thru the other one she was working for,-she was promptly fired from both. Her life of cons, lies, and fraud is unravelling very fast.
Love, Mama gemXX
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eb92044 says:
Mama gem:
Woo hoo!!! Good for you!!!! I am glad you don’t feel guilty about it. She deserved it.
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Ox Drover says:
Gem, I’ve said this before, though he is a better parent to your 3 GKs by your daughter than she is, he is NOT FATHER OF THE YEAR himself. You have not had so much as a phone call from the GKs in 2 years that you have sent gifts for birthdays and christmas etc. and he wouldn’t drive 10 minutes out of his way to bring them to see you and WHEN HE NEEDED MONEY you sent him a couple of hundred $$$—and now he is MAD AT YOU FOR OUTING HER???? LOL He wasn’t getting any child support from her anyway, so he was just looking for an excuse to be mad at you….LOL So what have you “lost”? Your weekly NOT VISIT with the kids? LOL ROTFLMAO
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KatyDid says:
Gem,
What a terrible person you are to deprive her of possible victims. There were people to fleece and underlings to walk on. Now what’s she to do?
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