After the sociopath, learning to trust again
A Lovefraud reader posted the following comment awhile back:
I just have one question for everyone here. Does anyone trust people after these sick people did what they did to us? Unfortunately for me … I have run across a few of these sickos but NONE like my ex. Whoever I meet now I’m thinking to myself, who is this person really? Do they have a secret life like the Scott Petersons and Ted Bundys of this world? I don’t let my children out of my sight and I’m already training my kids and they all know the signs of a sociopath especially my girls. I feel like I’m in a prison sometimes in my mind as I try so hard but just can’t trust anyone.
Yes, it is possible to trust again. Remember, sociopaths account for 1% to 4% of the population, depending on how the personality disorder is defined. Let’s bump the number of disordered people up to 10% to account for those who have sociopathic traits, but maybe not the full disorder.
That still means that 90% of the population are not sociopaths, and may be deserving of our trust.
So how can we feel trust again? How do we determine whom to trust? I think there are four components to being able to feel trust, and deciding who deserves to be trusted.
1. Educate ourselves
One of the statements I’ve heard over and over again, through e-mails and phone calls from victims, is this: “I didn’t know such evil existed.” Well, now we know.
We’ve all learned, mostly the hard way, about sociopaths. Now that we know they exist, we need to educate ourselves about the warning signs, the patterns of behavior that may indicate someone is disordered. Lies, irresponsibility, vague answers to questions, no long-term friends, new in town, magnetic charm, lavish flattery, statements that don’t add up, flashes of violence—if we start seeing the signs, we need to put up our guard.
2. Believe our own instincts
Just about everyone who was victimized by a sociopath had early warning signs—a gut feeling that something wasn’t right, an instinctive revulsion, questions about what was seen or heard. Unfortunately, we ignored the signals.
We didn’t believe the signals for three reasons:
- We didn’t have the empirical knowledge that evil exists (see above), so we didn’t know how interpret them.
- We viewed ourselves as open-minded individuals, and believed that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
- We allowed the sociopath to explain away our questions and doubts.
Never again. We should never doubt our instincts. In fact, we should train ourselves to pay attention to our instincts. Our intuition is absolutely the best tool we have for steering clear of sociopaths.
3. Make people earn our trust
I had a blind spot. I am a forthright, trustworthy person. I would never think of lying to someone. Unfortunately, I thought everyone else was like me. Big mistake. My younger brother’s life philosophy is probably more useful. His rule of thumb: “Everyone is an a**hole until proven otherwise.”
The point is that we should not give our trust away indiscriminately. People must earn our trust by consistent, reliable and truthful behavior.
Important caveat: Sociopaths often appear to be trustworthy, dependable and honest in the beginning, while they’re trying to hook us. So if the good behavior slips, and bad behavior starts to appear, we must recognize the change as a big red flag.
4. Process our pain
I think the biggest roadblock to being able to trust again is our own pain. After an encounter with a sociopath, we’ve been deceived, betrayed, injured, emotionally crushed. We are angry and bitter, and rightfully so. But if we want to move on, we can’t keep carrying the pain around.
To get rid of the pain, we must allow ourselves to feel it.
I recommend that, either privately or with the guidance of a good therapist, we let the tears and curses flow. Expressing the pain physically, without hurting yourself or others, also helps. My favorite technique was pounding pillows with my fists. You may want to stomp your feet, twist towels or chop wood.
For more on this, read Releasing the pain inflicted by a sociopath.
Trust and love
It is important to be able to trust again. Doubting and disbelieving everyone we meet is a dismal way to live. If we cannot recover our trust in humanity, the sociopath who plagued us will have truly won.
The difference is that after the sociopath, we must practice informed trust. We know the red flags of a sociopath, and in evaluating a person, we don’t see them. Our intuition is giving us the green light. The person has proven, and continues to prove, to be trustworthy. These are the intellectual aspects of trust.
By doing the work of exorcising our pain, we clear away the roadblocks to feeling trust emotionally. It’s crucial to be able to feel trust, because that’s what paves the way for love.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Indigoblue says:
I think Love and Trust are two Seperate Cognitive states of mind!
It is my Opinion that Trust is what I have for God!
Love is what I have for Mankind!
It has been my experience that trusting people will always fail me! Does’nt matter who, my parents , my siblings , my best friends , esp.employers! The Cause: Everyone of us is going to see circumstances , events , reality , from our own self/point of view. And Judge our loyalty on how it benifts us personaly! Case in Point; My Psycopath exp. My Mother who is the closest person to me . Says Put the past behind you and move on! While this is what I must do ! Her timing and my timing are not the same! They , my Folks , have’nt a clue what it is like to DOUBT your own worth as a person , because or in part to having loved a person who’s intent was your destruction!
God has NEVER let me down! ever!
And it is because of this that I don’t fear men , the world , or anything!
You can take my Life! and you may think you have won!
You Can NOT take What does not belong to me! MY SOUL ! That Belongs to GOD!
LOVE JJ
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 7:13am
Elizabeth Conley says:
There’s trust and then again there’s trust. Trust is earned over time.
My husband, my friends and most of the members of our family are trustworthy. There is one untrustworthy member of the family, and my husband has chosen NC. I support him in this.
In the workforce one runs into a few cluster Bs, and it’s necessary to cope. I’ve been a housewife for a while now, and picking my associates has been one of the perks. In recent years, my troubles have been confined to church. I’m church shopping for the first time in my life, looking for a congregation that isn’t entirely dominated by its cluster Bs. I want my children to grow up in a healthy church. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but we will not be participating in dysfuntional dramas every other week.
This weekend I visited a very nice church. We won’t be back. The church service was everything I hoped for, the location is convenient and the congregation is super friendly. SUPER FRIENDLY! In fact, I’d say that they are willing to violate their own boundaries and mine to make the point that they are super friendly. They hugged me, not just a few people, but a full dozen. Stiff, awkward, forced hugs. They gave me a mug and a stack of pamphlets intended to attract me to the church. Then there was the pastor. He spent significant time during the sermon telling the congregation about his own generous holiday giving plan. Was he a narcissist? Hard to say.
I felt nervous. Am I hyper-vigilant? You betcha. I’d be nervous no matter what. On the other hand, there were definite signs that I should be nervous. Those signs are present in many churches, but not all. That’s why I’m shopping around for a sane church for the first time in my life. For my entire life it has been my responsibility to “bloom where I’m planted.” This time I’m going to take it easy on myself by selecting a good location to put down roots.
Last weekend we visited a church where none of those signs were present. Sure, one member of the staff wore a permanent scowl, and at least one member of the congregation was painfully shy. Those things are just fine. There was no “love bombing”. Everyone seemed to be more or less playing themselves that morning, instead of a “loving church” drama production. The pastor’s sermon was not about himself. We’ll be going back next week to take a closer look. They have lots of youth programs, and my children were happy in Sunday school that day. They have several adult Sunday school classes. Chances are there will be one that will be safe for me. I’m not kidding myself, in a church of 200 there’s bound to be about 8 cluster Bs. As long as their agendas don’t predominate, the kids and I will be fine. It will take at least a year for us to risk joining them, but if the social climate isn’t toxic we will give it a whirl.
No, I’m not going to trust my new congregation with more than I should. If they can just behave themselves most Sundays, everything will be fine. In a few years I may even have built 2-3 good friendships. What more could anyone ask for? I’ll be thankful if that’s the outcome.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:21am
Indigoblue says:
Elizabeth
What Denomination where you brought up in?
I have been an Episcapalian all my life! The last time I went to Church was out of respect for My Best Friend and His Family! He Left at 42.
I am going to do as you say Shop , I would say Interview! The Epicapal Church has Just Split Over the LGBT ( Lesbian,Gay ,Bisexual,Transgender) issue of Human Rights! There is no Shortage of churches , almost like 7-11s used to be on every corner! Now it’s CVS , Walgreens , Ekards. LOVE JJ
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 10:01am
Elizabeth Conley says:
Methodist.
I’ll stay that way if I can. I think that Methodist churches relatively well prepared to manage their cluster Bs. Some newer denominations and nondenominational churches practically revel in dysfunctionalism. In general, old style liturgical churches are relatively drama resistant. I wouldn’t be to eager to leave the Episcopal Church. They’re a pretty sane bunch. Until you’ve heard grace spoken in tongues and seen people writhing around talking to demons, you just don’t know how wacky religion can get in the good ol’ U S of A.
There are checks and balances in well established denominations’ church governments that generally operate to thwart the worst excesses.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 10:13am
Indigoblue says:
I was not sugesting I wanted to leave , infact I will check them out First .
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 10:19am
Elizabeth Conley says:
Good plan. If you stay in the culture you grew up in, you’re more likely to agree about where the interpersonal boundaries are. It saves a bit of energy.
For instance: I could probably find a niche for myself in a organization full of stranger-huggers. I’ve done it before. Trouble is, it can be a bit awkward, and I run the risk of being labeled snobbish, standoffish or just plain mean. That or I live with the low level anxiety inherent in having strangers and distant acquaintances constantly intruding on my personal space. That’s considerable emotional labor, and to what end? What’s in it for me? As a military wife I’ve had to go along to get along with a new group of people every 2-3 years. Those days are past, and I don’t miss ‘em.
If you don’t have to deal with these awkward issues, then don’t. That’s my take on it – for what it’s worth.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 10:48am
OxDrover says:
This is a good article and one which I think all of us need to take into our souls.
I just read some good articles on the net (thanks Blogger T) about false consensus bias and cognitive dissonance, and it is normal for us to think that others think like we do, but that is NOT necessarily the way it really is.
It is also natural and normal for us to be leery of others when we have been burned by “others”–again, a normal way to think. If a dog bites you, you may become afraid of ALL dogs, and so if a “person” (P) bites you since you can’t see who is a P and who is not, you may become distrusting of ALL people.
We CAN see the RED FLAGS though, just like we don’t need to be afraid of ALL dogs just because one bit us, we just need to learn to be cautious and watch for the RED FLAGS that a dog might be liable to bite, so we need to watch for the RED FLAGS of a P and then determine that s/he might bite and avoid them, like you would a dog that had the body language of one that was aggressive.
With large animals capable of hurting someone, such as the horses, mules and cattle (oxen) I have trained, I trust them to a certain extent depending on past behavior, but I NEVER trust them 100% because I know they are large animals capable of hurting or killing me, so I am cautious around them somewhat no matter how trustworthy they have been in the past, but I don’t FEAR them, I respect their capablilty for injury and act accordingly.
With people, just like with my animals, I CULL them at the first sign of untrustworthyness and aggression. For years I have culled out any animal on this farm which would act aggressively for no reason. I exempted a mother protecting her young, or one acting in total panic, but ANY animal that showed even the least bit of aggressiveness or meanness WENT to that great barn in the sky.
When I was boarding the horses left homeless by the tornado for a while earlier this year, one of the was totally aggressive and bit the breast of her owner and almost amputated that appendage. I would have immediately gone to the house, gotten a gun and shot that animal. No ifs ands or buts. She is dangerous, but her owner (even with my coaching) could not accept that her small children were endangered by this viscious animal and that she was endangered by the animal.
Animals have a “pecking order” of dominance just like humans do, and animals will dominate you if they are allowed to do so, whether it is your pet dog or a horse. An aggressiveness in a 5 pound dog can be “managed” but aggressiveness in a 1500 pound horse is another matter entirely. To me, and my way of thinking, I can manage the 5 pound aggressive dog without any major risk, but the 1500 pound horse or cow must be submissive to me. So around here we have what I jokingly call the “Bigger and meaner” rule.
If an animal is bigger AND meaner than I am, it goes. It can be bigger and not as mean, or smaller and meaner, but NEVER BOTH BIGGER AND MEANER. LOL
With people, even people I have known for some time, I am “culling” out those people from my environment who I am aware of that do things I think of as “mean”—that includes anything that is illegal or immoral that hurts other people to their benefit. A long time ago I culled out people who drink to excess or drug, anyone who drinks/drugs and drives, people who steal even on a minor level like taking things home from the office instead of buying them for themselves, and people who are in general just “unkind” to others, people who are overly critical of others, people who don’t exhibit compassion for others….and the list goes on.
Sometimes at work, or in life, you have to associate with these people, otherwise you’d have to go live on a desert island by yourself, but at the same time, you can pick the people with whom you are INTIMATE FRIENDS. I have a fairly large circle of people who I consider intimate friends, and trustworthy, but even with those people there are “levels” of intimacy and trust. Most of those people have also been friends “through thick and thin” and are “tried and trusted” through years and years of observation.
I agree with Elizabeth, dealing with awkward issues is generally not necessary if you “cull” out those people who are willing to walk on your boundaries or violate good morals.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 11:22am
Stargazer says:
I’m finding that I don’t even give guys a chance who are interested in me. I don’t even feel an ounce of interest. If they compliment me in any way (tell me I’m beautiful, etc.) I shut down now. I think my reactions are a little extreme. Most guys are at a loss when trying to get a woman’s attention. I used to always give them the benefit of the doubt. Now I don’t even give them the time of day. I’m guessing I won’t be dating for quite a while.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 12:57pm
Wini says:
StarG: I know exactly how you feel. I’m still looking at folks now in the mindset of “what’s in it for you”! “What do you want?”.
It be nice is some guy just says “hey I want a date for Saturday night, that’s it” … or, “I have to show up at my bosses party as a couple … and I find you attractive, so will you go out with me to my bosses party … that’s it, we don’t have to see each other again … cause I’m a selfish jerk and I don’t have room in my life than anyone else but me”.
That would be refreshing.
Peace.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 1:12pm
Stargazer says:
LOL Wini. Yes, if everyone just told the truth, we could all make informed choices. The selfish jerks would still get laid occasionally, because there are people out there who like that sort of thing. I am much more tempted to give a dollar to a street person who is holding up a sign that says “Why lie? Need money for beer.” At least it’s honest.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 2:05pm
Wini says:
StarG: One winter … about 15 years ago, I was walking to the dirt lot were I parked. Many of the city’s alcoholics sat in that dirt lot day after day. This one man came over to me and said “I’m so sorry Miss, but I am so hungry, can you spare some change”. I said, I’ll give you money if you promise me you will buy something to eat and not go buy a bottle”. He said that he promise.
The only thing I had was either a $10 or $20 bill. I forgot which is was. Anyway, I handed him the bill. He thanked me and walked across the street. I got into my car. I had to wait for traffic …as I waited I could see the man through the window of the diner across the street, sitting at a table. I don’t know what he ordered, but I was glad he got some food to eat.
God made the heavy traffic that held me up from leaving the lot … just so I could witness this miracle.
Peace.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 2:44pm
Elizabeth Conley says:
Awesome story Wini. Thanks for sharing that. We all need to be reminded that there’s decency in the world.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 4:37pm
Stargazer says:
What a beautiful story, Wini. You have a very kind heart. I hope the people you have in your life from now on can appreciate that and never exploit it. I have a similar story. Many years ago, I waited all day for food stamps. I was a poor, starving grad student. After waiting all day for my $80 of food stamps, I walked out of the food stamp office and saw a homeless woman begging on the side of the road. I tore my food stamp book in half and gave her half. I don’t ever remember a person being so grateful in my life. To me, her smile was worth so much more than $40. Plus, you can’t buy beer with food stamps, so I know she put it to good use.
On the other hand, I once saw a street person holding up a sign that said, “why lie? Need money for beer.” I gave him a dollar for his honesty. I figure it’s not my place to judge a homeless person’s addictions. I’m sure if I were living on the street, I’d want to get drunk every day, too.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 5:03pm
southernman429 says:
This is a little off topic.. sorry…
Last night I was watching “Old Yeller”.. the disney classic, which I hadn’t seen since I was a kid on the old Sunday night Disney show…those of you familar with the ending of the movie, Old Yeller gets rabies for a fight with a infected wolf. At first, the dog seems ok, but the family quarantine Old Yeller, just in case…. As the weeks go by, the dog seems fine, but one night when the boy goes to feed him, Yeller snarles and growls at him..and looks at the boy with hate in his eyes….The boy knows in his heart what is wrong with the dog, but can’t accept the heartbreaking facts… As I sat there with my son, watching this unfold, I couldn’t help but think about my sociopath, and how she, like the dog in the movie did a “about face” with me… on the outside, she looked the same, but on the inside there was something wrong, and then just like with Old Yeller, she too looked at me with hate in not only her eyes, but in her heart….. Later, after having to put the dog down, the boy seems to be in a haze.. the light is gone from his eyes… The father comes home and tells the boy, (after the boy had just buried Old Yeller) To try to forget about it… the boy looks at his father with tears in his eyes and said “How can I ever forget about it.”… The father tells him that there are things in life that will knock you down and knock the wind out of you.. but there is also wonderful things in life, and sometimes it takes having been knocked down to see the good in life….. In my mind, as I watched this classic movie with my son, I thought how true and smiled to myself that I received a seed of wisdom from childrens movie that was 45 years old.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 6:10pm
Elizabeth Conley says:
Toughguy (Southern Man),
I have no idea how you got through Old Yeller. Nobody in our house could have done it without bawling their eyes out. If you can make it through that, you can survive anything life throws at you.
Blessings!
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 6:17pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Elizabeth,
I’ve never gotten through Bambi, or even a half hour Lassie show without bawling my eyes out. LOL “The Yearling” always makes me blubber too, for hours. LOL I can’t even put “The Grapes of WRath” into the player before I start crying! In spite of being willing to put down an animal if I have to or need to, I’m a complete softie for sentimental movies and sentimental stories.
But you are right Southernman, there are lessons to be learned in some of these old movies and old stories. They never get old, they are “timeless” lessons.
Oh, and “Where the Red Ferm Grows” is another one of my favorite “popcorn and Kleenex” movies.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 7:17pm
southernman429 says:
Elizabeth…..
I’m no tough guy, but I buried my wife, raising my son alone now for the past 6 years, saw my business flounder in the worst housing slump in 30 years, and I got bitten by a sociopath, yet….. I survived and I have a thankful heart.
I invite you to view a video I made for one of my blogs on Myspace. It is a healing video. I think it turned out rather well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpdljN7xz-0
“But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
“Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” 2 Corinthians 12:9-10
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 8:15pm
sstiles54 says:
Donna.
This was a good post. I am still in the educating stage, I think. I’m a lot like Oxdrover right now. I tend to prefer the company of my 2 dogs over people right now. 3 of my 4 kids want me to get rid of my dogs, & start getting out more. They JUST DON’T GET IT! I don’t trust anyone whom I perceive can hurt me, which includes them. My youngest daughter who is in college, needed some money last month. I sent her $300 , knowing I would be broke. My reward for helping her w/out question. was for her to criticize my house, my life, & me in general. My heart is still freshly scarred from the ex s. I really don’t think I can take anymore. Reading & posting here helps me get thru my day. I thought I had processed my pain w/ my therapist. I don’t think so now. I was in bad shape this weekend. I am in a new job w/no insurance.yet, so my depression med. cost comes out of my pocket. I have been trying to stretch out my meds, & skip some days to make it last. I went into full blown withdrawal sat. nite-the shakes, so dizzy I couldn’t stand up,etc. Then daughter calls-”did u go out for coffee w/friends yet, did you get rid of the dogs?” Sometimes I wonder if I will ever heal. I want to be the old me, but I can’t find my way back home.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:07pm
Iwonder says:
OMG Southernman:
That video was so great. I cried. I really did.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:17pm
Indigoblue says:
sstiles54
Pray ask and you shall recieve knock and the door will be opened! He is who is suporting you right this very second! Trust in Him! You are not alone !
Tell the Daughter if she cannot support you that she should just keep her opinion to her self and Shut the Fudge UP! Be BLUNT She don’t get it so tell her she can support her self! Get a friggin Life winch! Be Blunt take Charge If you don’t she is going to walk all over you as she has been doing Please! Don’t take abuse from anyone at all Period! LOVE JJ
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:23pm
BloggerT7165 says:
I was reading an article today that had a quote, attributed to the Talmud and it is simple, direct, and profound: “We do not see things as they are; we see them as we are.”
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:24pm
Indigoblue says:
SOUTHERN
WOW! AWSOME! EXCELENT! Worthy! Inspired! LOYAL! DEVOTED! LOVE! Faith,hope and Love and the Greatest of these is LOVE! THANK YOU JJ
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:34pm
Iwonder says:
Hi sstiles54:
I know how you feel. I so want to feel normal again. The way I used to feel 2 1/2 years ago before I met the sociopath. For the 1st 6 mos when the relationship was new I fell madly in love. Over the next year, he slowly changed me…or should I say I allowed him to change me. When all was said and done, I definitely was not me anymore. My soul was empty, I couldn’t sleep. I would wake up 1, 2, 3 am sometimes vomiting…no joke. This man who promised to love me for the rest of my life had used me for a place to live and took all my money and almost got away with my car and 1/2 my home. .all the while he had another woman right in town…in the shadows…just waiting in the wings. Everyone knew about her…his son, the school, people where we shopped. I felt like the village idiot. He and the OW had planned everything. He was going to leave me for her this past June, as soon as his son finished the school year. So there he was, taking her out in the car I paid for, his son covering for him, sometimes leaving his son with me to babysit while he went out on dates telling me he was going out with his guy friend. He quit his job in Feb leaving me to pay all the expenses up to the very end. It sickens me to know the OW was in on the plan and didn’t give a flying sh.. about me either. Unbelieveable. Now I sit here thinking how happy they are together …gloating that their plot worked like a charm. I keep asking what I did to deserve such treatment. I keep trying to let it go but it still stings. All the abuse turned me into someone unrecognizeable. I am slowly recovering. It’s been 7 months. It took me 5 entire months to get him to sign off the deed papers to my condo back into my name. I even had to blackmail him to do so. I feel so stupid. It was a big red flag when he asked me to put his name on the deed. That was an extreme request. But I did it because we were engaged and wanted him to feel like the place was both ours ..I wanted to share my life with him so I thought it was fine. Little did I know the underlying plan.
I’m very cautious going out on dates now. I still don’t feel right but I am pushing myself out the door…it beats sitting home feeling sorry for myself. I’m watching to make sure the guys I date are paying for meals, etc. I’m telling you…one red flag and I’m outta there!
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:51pm
Iwonder says:
Indi:
Didn’t you cry?
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:52pm
henry says:
sstiles54 – I don’t think you want to be the old you. Yes I was lost and all I wanted was to find the old me again – where did I go? Well it is the old me that got shit on all the time. I am working on the new me – learning from my mistakes – changing pattern’s – defining boundaries….Let’s not look for the old us – we were to comfortable and vulnerable back then. A new us !!!! Hang in there sstiles and give yer poochie’s a kiss for me and I think you need to have a talk with your daughter!!!~~!!
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 9:53pm
Wini says:
Elizabeth Conley: Good NEWS for You. Tonight on Larry King Live …. his guests were Joel and Victoria Osteen. Both said that NEW attendances to the churches are at an all time high.
They said that during crisis times, people question and want to find relief …. they also spoke about horrific situations in life … it either makes you stronger or … you can make yourself bitter.
Peace.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 11:07pm
Stargazer says:
Trust again? The thing is I have never completely trusted anyone to begin with. That was probably my saving grace and why the relationship with the P only lasted a few months. This is not the first time a man has hurt me, and believe it or not, it’s not the worst. Every time I get hurt, it scars me a little bit, even though I seem to move on with my life. I honestly don’t know if I will ever find a man patient enough to teach me that it’s okay to trust. Heck I can’t even LIKE men right now, never mind trust one! I feel so envious of happily married women with wonderful husbands who love and adore them. I feel like there is something wrong with me that I can’t find that, too. It’s like I’m a defective model or something. I mean, I know my stepfather abused me, and my bio father abandoned me. But somewhere in my psyche, can’t I even IMAGINE what it would be like to be loved by a man? Apparently I can’t. At least I’ve learned what is not love. Lust is not love. Got that loud and clear this time around. But when you take that away (as my looks are fading anyway) I don’t even remember what is left. I don’t even know what trust means, because I’ve never had anyone in my life I could really trust.
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Monday, 8 December 2008 @ 11:47pm
Wini says:
StarG: That’s because you are looking at yourself from your human eye…. it’s when you learn to see yourself with your spiritual eye is when you will see the beauty of the world.
You’ve got your health? Correct?
You’ve got your mind and your creativity? Correct?
Those are two great, great gifts to have! The rest we can build on your shattered self esteem. The shattered self esteem is the human part … that we’ve been talking about is superficial and has a time limit to it’s expiration date (0-100 and something years old). It’s your spiritual part of your soul that will make you come alive.
Peace.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 12:09am
Stargazer says:
Yes, Wini, it is my spirit that has kept me alive and even vibrant through all of this. I have my intelligence, creativity, and DAMN, my sense of humor just won’t die. These are my greatest qualities, and I know they will help me overcome. But sometimes I wonder what it would be like to experience that sense of close biological human family that others experience. That’s something I will never have.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 12:19am
Wini says:
StarG: What you are seeing in the last 40-50 years is the collapse of believers in our Holy Father. Therefore, I personally don’t know that there are many married couples that are truly happy and believe what the Bible teaches. I know a few, but not many … most couples cheat on each other … then pretend for their children’s sake (whatever that means, I think it’s an excuse they use because their marriages are convenient for them) … but … to truly love each other and care about each other … I DON’T THINK SO.
I think there are more people like us … except they like to keep their heads in the sand … and not rock their world by walking out of their lousy marriages.
Hey, and I’m not a pessimist … I’m just calling it like I see it. I’d love to tell the wives that think they have such great husbands how their husbands have hit on me over and over again through the years … then, I wouldn’t be friends with them anymore, would I? They’d kick me to the curb than allow their bubbles to burst. I have told really close friends … and eventually they divorced … but it was when they were ready.
Peace.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 12:38am
Stargazer says:
Well, while I believe there are other expressions of spirituality besides Christianity, I do agree with you about the erosion of marriages and families due to lack of spirituality in people’s lives. And being an ex-stripper, I can attest the the numbers of so-called happily married men trying to cheat on their wives. I say “trying” because until I met my P recently, I never slept with a married man. They only tried with me.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 1:04am
Indigoblue says:
I NEVER CRY!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 5:43am
tryingtoheal says:
I remember my Sociopath telling me that he wore many different hats! These evil people know exactly what they are doing. Even though it has been 2 months since I told him to go after he threw a rage, he has phoned a friend of mine who happened to be sitting with me at the time, full of anger and saying how he wants me to suffer and making threats, he has also been phoning the police regularly about me saying that I’m ringing and texting him constantly and that I am compulsive obsessive! I phoned the police and put them straight!
Because we are not medically qualified to speak of personality disorders, we have to tread a fine line, it is very frustrating to say the least!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 6:47am
Elizabeth Conley says:
Henry,
I like what you wrote:
“Well it is the old me that got shit on all the time. I am working on the new me – learning from my mistakes – changing pattern’s – defining boundaries….Let’s not look for the old us – we were to comfortable and vulnerable back then.”
You’re dead right. We can bounce back and be happier and healthier. We gave too much, we trusted too quickly, and we accepted to much belittling, negating treatment and outright abuse. We can do better in the future.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 7:39am
Elizabeth Conley says:
Ox Drover,
The Green Mile always does me in.
Mostly I stick to comedies and action adventure stories, ’cause “Girls just wanna have fun”.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 7:57am
eyeswideshut says:
Perhaps trust is overrated.. One of those “virtues” that the P/S/N/s can smell like a shark smells blood in the water. Is it really necessary to “trust completely”?
Modern marriage and co-habitation laws bring the whole thing down to a business contract, coldly splitting whatever regardless of who did what to whom. No fault.
If as and when I begin a new relationship I plan to enjoy, but not trust. I think an iron clad pre-nup or co-habitation contract is a good idea. It replaces trust in terms of financial matters and allows the parties to demonstrate their sincereity with no ulterior or second agenda in the works.
“If you really loved me you would trust me” has left a lot of shattered victims in its wake. When it comes to matters of fidelity, of course there is no piece of paper that can protect a person from abuse on that end. But as for all the rest I say why go there? Be independant financially, legally, on paper.
I would have scoffed at this many years ago, but had I had that advice perhaps not be as vulnerable, actually up the creek withut a paddle as I am now. My lawyer says I could write the book on why not to trust your husband when it comes to signing documents. Tempting time waster. The working title could be “Marriage for Dummies”.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 8:31am
presseject says:
oh Lord….TRUST… It has been seven months now since the S-meltdown, the horrible devalue/discard nightmare. Trust was the first thing I lost, in amounts immeasurable. Seven months later, is it back? I don’t know exactly. But instead of trust I have been operating on faith. Not a faith in others or of myself but of a higher power. Faith that I am healing, faith that I have learned a new set of values and that these will help me.
We go through these stages I think… trust may have been the first thing robbed of us, it may take the longest to restore. But the idea of faith intervening, of allowing a force greater than ourselves to help direct us seems to me to be the way out of the mental turmoil.
So each day, I do what I can to live in a more humble state, grateful for the small things I have. I lost my S “dream lover” seven months ago. I lost my “dream job” two weeks ago. Do I still feel victimized? Less and less actually. I have been shaken to my core and in this process I have discovered my inner strengths, my creativity, my ability to endure and grow.
My values are changing, my faith is deepening and is and remains my foundation. I have begun to date again. A short while ago, I met a man close to my age, (in person this time, not “on line”) who is kind, compassionate, caring, loving. There is no inflated ego at work here, neither of us are trying to prove anything. It isn’t all about escape and sex. No “pity ploys”, no manipulating, no impulsive “gifts”, no idolizing, instead it feels like peace between two individuals, both of whom perhaps have been tempered somewhat by life but who are both willing to share and give.
Having had so much taken from me, I was, in effect, liberated. I am free now. I was able to allow myself to feel free from trying to love a sociopath, and, just recently, free from working for a sociopath! Free to enjoy my new understanding of my past blindness and how this new knowledge will only serve to help me become happier.
I am feeling this happiness at times, (if not overwhelming happiness, it is at least a change from despair and the long period of grief!) despite all that was taken from me this year. I have a new person in my life who shares love with me. It is simple in this respect. I am able to experience his kindness in faith, not with any great measure of trust at the moment, but with simple, unassuming faith.
Perhaps in time, trust will find its place. For now, instead of carrying so much hurt, I feel God is close by and extending His love for me, a pathway He has set in front of me that I may choose to follow, in faith. Faith has very little time for feeling hurt anymore.
PressEject
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:23am
Indigoblue says:
Trust GOD love mankind!
~ LOVE JJ
I think Yall Got it!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:55am
henry says:
Dear Elizabeth Conley – Thank’s – I think it is important that we learn from this, that we look back on our lives and see what it is that made us accept such bad behavior from other. i n my case my Narcississt mother is the root of my conditioning to live my life to please other’s regardless of how they abused me. It was the relationship with my X that brought me down and made me realize I had to change and treat myself better, no longer will I be a doormat for anyone. You mention Cluster B in some of your post. After months of reading talking to therapist – physciatrist – I have diagnosed my X BF as a cluster B. He is a sociopath for sure but the Cluster B is so pityful and so very evil and they have no idea what they are.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:07am
Elizabeth Conley says:
Well Henry,
I’m kinda in the same boat, only I can’t blame my parents. They’re good people, and super nice. They tend to get trampled too. My sister is the same way. I think sometimes it’s just a culture clash. Y’know those two cartoon chipmunks, Chip and Dale? Each always deferring to the other was part of the comedy routine. When people pleasers mix with people users, it’s no longer funny. Personally, I’m trying to stay decent but not be a total doormat any more.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 12:43pm
Wini says:
Henry & Elizabeth: The way I look at all that’s happened to all of us … is that we lived our lives properly, the way God wants us to … we just loved to love … not having any ulterior motives behind it … and the others did wrong, hence why we are all blogging. Don’t beat yourselves up so much, there have always been TAKERS throughout history … it’s how we keep peace, love, harmony and the rest of God’s virtues in tack after we encounter the selfish likes of them is what counts.
Peace.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 2:50pm
Indigoblue says:
CHIPNDALES
~ LOVE JJ
I Love that Review sept I always gota dress like a woman and wear makeup!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 3:08pm
presseject says:
Wini, you said it so well just now, thank you. (I still have this need to spill so many words when it comes to this whole subject.)
PressEject
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 3:09pm
Indigoblue says:
What is Cluster B?
I heard of Clustertuck!
~
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 3:10pm
Elizabeth Conley says:
DSM IV
Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders)
Antisocial personality disorder: “pervasive disregard for the law and the rights of others.”
Borderline personality disorder: extreme “black and white” thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior
Histrionic personality disorder: “pervasive attention-seeking behavior including inappropriate sexual seductiveness and shallow or exaggerated emotions
Narcissistic personality disorder: “a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy”
I say “cluster B” because it covers the laundry list of personality types that can really rock your world. Like Histrionic – it doesn’t sound serious, but it is. Histrionics often slander people. They do this because they genuinely feel they’ve been abused, but their lack of malice doesn’t mitigate the damage. Borderline and Narcissistic don’t sound bad either, ’til you tangle with ‘em. The anti-social personality disorder is your P and/or S.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 5:28pm
Wini says:
Well Elizabeth, now I know what to call the place I worked … A CLUSTER B building. (LOL).
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 6:20pm
Indigoblue says:
Wini
~ so don’t ask me if I did’nt!
~
did you see Opra today and did you see the OCD with dr. OZ
Remember I don’t CRY!
Awsome! Awsome! Excelent! Opra for Presidente! Ole!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 6:24pm
Indigoblue says:
My Psyco fits all of the above 110 0/0
similar to devideing 1 =1/2 +1/2 or3rds or 4ths or 5ths Oh Star I need that Card # and Pin I need a Fith and some Smokes ! Pronto!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 6:28pm
Wini says:
Indi: I saw some of it … then turned on another channel … most of these idiots cause their own insecurities and hardships just by never opening the Bible and reading to build their own self esteem.
I don’t know if you know this … but their is the reverse narcissist out there. They are narcissists believing in their own big egos … but it’s reversed on them and they have some of their weirdest conditions going on.
Don’t write me anyone else on this blogg with the mental health definitions and statistics on this folks … I already read them…. they still need to get off their duffs and read the Bible.
Peace.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 6:34pm
sstiles54 says:
Henry- you’re so right! I don’t want to be the uneducated old me, maybe I miss the smile that used to come so easy for me. I am definitely navigating now with full radar on all the time. U R very perceptive! Thanks!
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 7:56pm
Iwonder says:
Hi Presseject:
I am also 7 months post devastation and dating again. It is extremely difficult to let someone new into my life. I’ve had to slowly re-build an entire new circle of friends and also re-connect with the neighbors I cut out of my life when isolated by the ex S. I look at everyone with a keen eye. But, if I see any red flags a-flying, I’ll just push those people back out of the circle. God forbid I ever let myself be treated like I was. I was used..just for a free meal..free car..free everything..for a lousy few crumbs of affection here and there.
Wini’s right. If they followed the Bible, they would “do unto others…” But they don’t. So sad. I actually feel pity for my ex. I can’t even be jealous of the OW because she is now a beggar for a few morsels of love in between a lot of abuse.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 8:02pm
Wini says:
Iwonder: In time the OW will be blogging on here too. That’s if she’s lucky enough to be of a curious nature by typing the key anti-social personality words in the search engine.
Look how ALL of us got here … researching on our own what anti-social personalities were all about. I think they should have links to the key words of BIG EGOS, GREED, SELFISNESS, LAZINESS … just so people can get to this site quicker (LOL).
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 8:13pm
stormee says:
Wini,
I hope you don’t mind if I add a few more “search words” to your very appropriate list: BRAGGING, FAKE-ASS, SLEAZY,SELF-ABSORBED, PERVERSE…. (LOL).
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 8:45pm
Wini says:
stormee: Between you and Indi today. You both are making me laugh …. I wish you would ask Donna for our home e-mails … you’ve got to see the joke Indi sent regarding a man that is retired. LOL.
Yeah, we can have all our EXs take a group photo … and when you look up in the dictionary any of those keys words … there are all their mugs looking out at the page at you (LOL).
If Donna added all those key search terms … imagine, we’d be waiting in line to blog on (LOL).
Hey, she can even get nominated for Noble Peace Award.
Peace.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 8:53pm
stormee says:
Wini,
Love the idea of the group photo of the X- S’s… Seriously though, the thought of EVER seeing him again fills me with anxiety…
The other day my daughter and I were looking through old photos and came across one of the X-S… We could both literally see the “emptyness” in the eyes as he looked at the camera… Hindsight is always 20/20…
I will ask Donna for your e-mail (and Indi’s if that’s ok with him…)…I didn’t know we could do that…
And she definately does DESERVE a Noble Peace Prize for all the good and healing this site provides…
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:05pm
henry says:
I deleted and burned all his photos – it’s not just the cold empty stare that haunted me it was the look of disgust he always gave me for taking the picture in the first place – I think he thot of them as evidence
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:29pm
Indigoblue says:
Yes Stormee anyone who wants my email can have at it and my Pay-Pal Acct # is 666 evil 999 Star I still need a Fith and Smokes Pronto!
~ LOVE JJ
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:37pm
stormee says:
Henry,
I ripped all of his old photos up also after his mask slip which led to the final scene and the “D and D”. That photo was a lone survivor….about made me puke from shock and anxiety when I came across it….
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:42pm
Indigoblue says:
Grog say woman no do what Grog say!
Thag say What you do?
Grog say What can I do She do all work!
Thag say All?
Grog say YuP!
Thag say Why you not do any work?
Grog say why work when woman do it for me !
Thag say You smart Grog! LOVE JJ
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:43pm
stormee says:
Indi,
what kinda smokes???
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:44pm
Indigoblue says:
Cloves and a Fith of regal !
~ BIG SQUEEEEEEEEZ for Star
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:46pm
stormee says:
Indi,
cloves or herbs???? (lol)
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 9:58pm
Stargazer says:
You want my ATM pin number, Indi? Try this one: B*I*T*E**M*E. If that doesn’t work, try this one: I*N**Y*O*U*R**D*R*E*A*M*S.
One of those should work for you. BTW, if you find any actual money in my checking account, you are probably accidentally in the wrong account.
XOXOXO
StarG
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:02pm
Indigoblue says:
Ok now
Am I gona havta get out of this chair and stop what I am watchin on TV and go to an ATM ? Not! I think you should just go get my herbs and Beer and My Bottle for me Now I don’t want to have to put my pants on and Barrow your car! So SweetHeart PLEASE ! Do It Now! LOVE JJ
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:08pm
stormee says:
Indi,
You can borrow my”beater” to get your sh**t , but you’ll havta put on your pants and come to Mormanville (aka the Morman ghetto) to get it… I’ll wait up for ya….
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:17pm
Indigoblue says:
Moron Getto ?
~
That sounds Charming ! Like Anthrax Island ! Turns nest there! Quick Pro Quo You tell me things and I tell you things Clerice!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:22pm
stormee says:
Indi
You got the wrong ghetto…I said “Morman” ghetto….the Moron ghetto sounds like much more fun…
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:28pm
henry says:
stormee – it’s funny but the first thing he asked for when he moved in with me was for a ring and ‘get our picture taken’ – i gave him a ring – he threw it at me one nite when he came home drunk at 3 am and I asked where he had been. We never had our pictures taken together. But I did take lot’s of pictures of him on trips etc. He never looked happy in a picture or otherwise. I think the ring and picture thing was his proof of belonging too someone. Bless his heart I really did try to love him – but I knew something was wrong with this picture!!! I always felt (used) – nothing was genuine about him – he would say one thing and do another. He would repeat thing’s I had said like a parrot – he mimicked my love – copyied it. I guess when they say they mirror us – it must mean we are in love with ourselves? He lived my life just for security. he can’t love – he just pretend’s too. But that is all he knows – with me anyhow – maybe he is in love with this new guy – he knows more about it now than he did when he came here. That is what hurt’s – I improved his social skills – his act is better thanks to me…geez I need to get laid……
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:42pm
Indigoblue says:
Hahahahaahahaaha
Henry , you have to know! The Honeymoon phase will only last a short time! and He will be Tourturing the new guy! It does’nt matter who ! They treat everyone the same!
Mine could never keep a job Because of someone else there did this or did that . He would tell me the story but I could tell he left out the truth! And Blamed it on the other guy! LOVE JJ
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 10:48pm
stormee says:
Henry,
I felt the same way… He did exactly what you describe your X did with the mimicking and copying of the things I said and did… He’s NOT in love because they aren’t capable of it… I know what you mean about you improving his social skills and thinking he will use it on the next one in order to manipulate…I feel the exact, same way..However, sooner or later the mask WILL slip, and when it does it will be another D and D on to the next and the next and the next….
God Bless…
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:00pm
Stargazer says:
Indi,
Sorry, babe, you will have to try harder than that to threaten me. lol
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:05pm
Stargazer says:
Well, I just reread this article that OxD wrote, and now I’m thinking about trust again. I feel I’ve gone to the end of the line as far as healing over the recent S I dated. I’ve shed all the tears and don’t have much emotion left. But trust is still a big issue for me, as it always has been. So I have a question for everyone. How do you learn to trust when you don’t have anyone steady in your life to build trust with? I know they say you should trust yourself, trust God, trust life, etc., etc. But I would like to know what it is like to trust a human being. If you don’t have a therapist, parent, sibling, or close person to begin to trust, how can you learn to develop this trust?
I have been chatting with a few guys on the dating site. Just casual chat. I find that I keep having to push them back to a level of casualness that feels comfortable for me. When they start right away telling me I’m beautiful, etc., I tell them I feel uncomfortable with that. When they talk about just being friends, I feel more comfortable. But every time they earn my trust just a little, I feel like I want to cry. I’m not sure why except that I think I’ve never really trusted another person before, especially a man.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:31pm
henry says:
star you gotz trust issues – i trust lot’s of people in my life – I have learned that you can not trust everybody – and I have learned that painfully – i can not trust my mother – my brother – but i can trust people – I think it’s an instinct knowing how too trust – sometimes we meet evil people that convince us we should trust them – but did we ever really trust them at all?
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:47pm
stormee says:
The two people I trust most in this world are my two daughters… I am at 4.5 months of “No Contact” with the X-S, so the Lord only knows how long it will be before I can trust another man. To be honest, I didn’t really trust him, and I ignored far too many Red Flags …
I do totally trust God, but I am often frustrated with His timing, and I get myself into trouble with my impatience in waiting for the Lord…
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:48pm
Stargazer says:
Well, the catch 22 about working on trust issues is that it doesn’t happen in a vaccuum. You need someone to build a trusting relationship with. Even when I met my ex, the S, I was testing him. I did not totally trust him. If he had been on the level, I would have put him through hell and back testing him to see if he was trustworthy. (As you can see he failed the tests early on). But when it ended, I no longer had anyone to test. So it’s just me and my trust issue again. I would like to start a relationship where I can work on this issue. But ironically mistrust tends to scare people away. It will take a very special person to get through.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:53pm
henry says:
indi go blue my x would come home from work and tell me all these things that went wrong – and he would blame it on some woman ‘ i forget her name’ and say she was sabatoging (sp) him – and then he would say how everybody thot he was just the cats meow – i wonder if he still works there – usually about 3 years is as long as he keeps a job…he did work!!! but changed jobs alot….
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:56pm
OxDrover says:
DEar Star,
Learning to trust is just like anything else, a bit of trial and error I think.
Starting off, meeting people on the internet to “date” or even potentially date, I think is very risky, and you are more likely to find a LEMON than a DIAMOND in that venue. It is difficult to know someone behind a screen. Here I feel very comfortable because this is a venue where we are not likely to “hook up” and there isn’t any down side to being honest and trusting here. About the worst that could happen is someone could flame you, and I’ve had that happen a time or two here, but Donna keeps a good blog, so that doesn’t happen often and it is stopped immediately.
Now, learning to trust people in RL is just trial and error.
Okay, you meet someone and they tell you something about themselves and you say to yourself, “this person seems nice.” That is a start of trust. Then you start seeing this person (not just a romantic interest but anyone) and they say to you “let’s do dinner friday, I’ll meet you at XYZ’s at 7 p.m.
and so you go to the place at 6:45 and they never show and they never call. Well, that sort of negates the “trust” you had started to have for them.
The next day they call, from the hospital—they were in a car wreck and had to go to the hospital for a couple of days, so that sort of restores your trust in them (after you find out they really WERE in the hospital and their car is a mess).
It is a matter of them doing what they say they will do=—repeatedly, and not lying, not abusing you or others.
Let’s say you go on a date with a new guy you met at a reptile show, and he is hateful to the waiter and you think to yourself, “Hummm, this guy sounds and acts pretty rude and angry. If he is rude and angry to others, he might be rude and angry with me. I think I will dump him after tonight.”
Trust is watching people, seeing how they act, looking for signs of dishonesty or honesty. If they tell you how they have scammed others, abused their x, or gotten even with someone, you start to think, “I can’t trust this person”
If they are kind, caring, and always keep their word, aren’t rude to others, and aren’t caught in a lie, then you might start to trust them some, but it is built over a period of time, not a matter of days or weeks, but over months and years.
Trusting people TOO SOON before we hve had enough time to spend with them to OBSERVE is I think the biggest problem.
I know I started to trust my X BF P before we had spent any real quality time together. I WANTED to trust him so I gave it to him, not made him earn it.
I have also given people “second chances” for lying—WON’T DO THAT AGAIN. Lie one and you are OUT. Doesn’t matter what the lie is about.
Sit down and make a list of the things you will NOT tolerate in your close friends, then when you see someone do those things, X them out of your circle of intimacy.
We all have over lapping “circles” of trust….trusting a few people completely, trusting others only when we are watching them…just like if I have a horse that kicks ONCE IN A WHILE, they are OUT to that big barn in the sky as that is NEVER TOLERATED, AND ONE STRIKE YOU ARE DOG FOOD.
Bad behavior isn’t engaged in ALL the time by anyone, even the worst P, like my son, so when you see SIGNS of it once in a while, they are not trustworthy EVER. Trust is like dead, you are not just a little bit dead, you are either trust worthy all the time, or you are not trust worthy ANY of the time. Being predictable is the thing you are looking for, how this person will behave in any situation. I wouldn’t buy a horse on just spending a few minutes with it and think it would be trustworthy, so I would be cautious around it for quite some time until I ws pretty sure it wasn’t a kicker or a biter with anyone. But ONCE it kicked or bit in anger, it is dead meat! I could never trust it again.
TRusting anyone I met on a dating site is not something I would EVER do. I am waaay too cautious for that. Too many horror stories===like my DIL hooking my son on a dating site, looking for a meal ticket.
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Tuesday, 9 December 2008 @ 11:59pm
Indigoblue says:
Storme
Me Too but as I learn to be patient and wait and do without I see the reward , and I have learned alot in a very short time! LOVE JJ
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 12:02am
Stargazer says:
OxD, What I meant was how do you do it when you don’t have anyone in your life and you are not dating? It is extremely rare that I meet a man in RL who gets my attention. It was 2 years of not dating before I met the S. Do you work on trusting the air? I hang out on the internet because it expands my options. I’ve met a lot of nice people on the internet. You guys are all on the internet! Hey, wait a minute……there are at least 25 members on this site. You know what that means….1 in 25……
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 1:12am
wiserandhealing says:
Hey everyone…so, I did trust again…
I wrote last maybe three months ago explaining how thankful I was for all of you and for God to finally, finally release me from the clutches of satins claws. I had gone through the hell of which all of you know too well for 2.5 years and finally finally somehow retreived myself and felt like me again.
I know I wasn’t fully completely back as my pre-socio self but I actually felt light and joy and colours and felt connected to humans etc. OUT OF DARK MAN!. It Finally happened.
I really beleive there is an end to the darkness of the S because I did find it and I will stand by my point that we can recover from these theives.
But….get this…speaking of trust….
So I ended up meeting through a dear freind one of the most purest, truest sweetest humans I beleive I’ve ever encountered and we fell quick into eachother. (I know the quickness should be a sign but beleive me was I ever on guard and there were NO inconsistancies)and he has a long character reference check for me)
We talked endlessly 6-8 hours everyday and he came to visit me and we spent 2 weeks 24 hours together and I actually felt like this was the true deal. The ACTUAL dream as opposed to a facade. Was on friggen top of the world. He was everything miraculously that the S was but so much more because there were no games, no drama, just pure consistant love. And we were so intimate in so many ways other than physical. Just so powerful and exciting. Like we just got higher and higher every second with each other.
I actually was very conscious every step of the way of how real this felt and was and always questioned myself if this was just my hope or could this actually be the rel deal…..but I was convinced..there were NO>>ZIP>>NONE..NO signs of craziness. IT WAS HIM!!
So…long story short here…
Just one week short of him moving here from the other side of the country….was supposed to arive this Saturday. actually.
well..he has suddenly ’snapped’ and no longer knows me.
He knows who I am but has absolutely no feeling for me.
He talks to me through e-mail as if some other being is speaking. He may very well be going though some significant illness which I’ve told him I will support etc. But my God. I find it very very difficult to beleive that I just no longer exist basically…within one night…last Thursday…he just literally left. He is GONE!!!!
All I have now are feelings as I did for when the S came out but I still don’t feel like he is an S. I truly do beleive he has serious problems related to his past but guess my point is…
Are there maybe some people that the the cozmo’s just want to get entertainment from? Like…what are the chances? I mean really, I finally trust again after the Soc and the guy, my ‘true’ prince, my love forgets me.
So, guess trust comes down to you.
I think this experience has taught me more than anything that I will keep going on trusting because I refuse to live a life in refuge. It just is so against my grain. The chances I get this duped are pretty comical really but all I know is that I was authentic and pure throughout all of them and I will continue to be. It’s all I can do. I may and at this rate…probablt will get duoed but i’m just gonna be me cause options are slim. I trust myself now. That’s the lesson. I trust that I have what it takes to get beyond other’s betrayal’s. Hurt’s like hell. Hate it actually but still when I look at all the options of not going for it…I’d rather go for it than possibly let the real deal pass by. The real deal will always be me because I put the realness into it and if they are to unevolved to be real…well I just hope my realism planted a seed…somewhere.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 7:27am
Indigoblue says:
Wiser
wow!
I’m still Curious ? No nothing? No explanation? No reason?
There has to be something! Or did you Know in your being that it was all a Play?
Cat & Mouse ! Remember the cat does’nt always win! LOVE JJ
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 7:39am
wiserandhealing says:
Ya…only explanation is basically that he’s ’sick’. “I’ve snapped…I’m in a dark hole”.
He’s half heartedly admitted to possibly having Dissociative Identity Disorder. Which would be the ONLY thing I could maybe accept.
But now that I see his Facebook page that he has just reactivated after all this drama….he has deliberately taken off that he is in a relationship and put down ‘interested in women’.
His only identity that he is disassociated from is the clown.
If he really thinks he’s not a big joke at this point I may just send him some big rubber balls for his nose for xmas at this point. I mean really…he KNOWS I’m going to see this and notice this…how sick is that? Now starting to beleive perhaps he’s not so sick afterall. Or obviously wants to inflict pain.
Whatever…I’m just DONE DONE DONE with wondering.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 9:01am
Indigoblue says:
Ok Thanks! Wise
You Do know ? that it is not You Right? LOVE JJ
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 9:06am
Indigoblue says:
Wiser
I can read the lies from the very start! He likes to boost of his Boxing and mixed martial Arts! Ha ! He is a wana be street thug! I once watched as he was Having his -ss beat by a guy twice his size and weight! He would get up from being beat down and ask for more! The big guy finaly left because there was no purpose in beating him down more! I would love to read your clowns profile after what youve said! LOVE JJ
My Psyco has a profile on a website too!
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 10:08am
OxDrover says:
Dear Wiser,
THE BIG RED FLAG that you failed to notice was the INTENSITY of the relationship and the “2 weeks 24/7″ part of it. They RUSH you. It takes TIME (in days and weeks and months) to establish a trusting relationship that is at least a good risk.
Anyone can “fake it” for 2 weeks, or 2 months, or sometimes longer, but being around someone in many different circumstances and being able to observe them under “every day” conditions, not on a vacation or a trip is REASONABLE CAUTION.
What they “get” out of it is a “conquest” and once they have it, it is over. Some of them are like that, they love the big build up and the “hunt and kill” part of it, then once they have you in the “bag” (or sack) they move on to new conquests.
This can also be a learning experience for you, too, and at least you didn’t waste several years with him. I am sure that doens’t make the hurt much less, but at least you saved the “time” ((((Hugs))))
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 10:47am
stillsortingitout says:
Dear Wiser,
I whole-heartedly agree with everything OxDrover just wrote. Reading your post, my jaw began to drop midway through. I’m so terribly sorry girl – you’ve been duped. I actually think this sort of guy – the kind that’s after “a “conquest” and once they have it, it is over” – is one of the milder forms of predator.
I dated a guy like this for several months and I fell head-over-heels for him. He was like a drug. Our chemistry was incindiary, just being in his presence made me crazy. We finished each others sentences. The “him” he showed me seemed genuine. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t.
He left very abruptly too. I was in shock and agony for years (crazy, huh? after only being with him less than a year?).
They get their conquest then move on, but they don’t seem to want to destroy you. When I’ve run into this guy, he’s genuinely happy to see me and hoping for the best for me. He explained that he knew he wasn’t right for me. I don’t think he had the courage to live up to all that promise.
Wiser, I hope that is what happened with your guy. I think this “type” wants to be all the things they claim to be but when it comes right down to it, they know they aren’t capable of being what they pretend to be. They are somewhat spineless, so they just disappear instead of doing the adult thing.
In my experience, this is a far cry from the S/N/P that targets you for your loving (sucker, to them) qualities, then systematically exploits you till there’s nothing left. Enjoying your degredation all the way.
You’ll get through this one, and eventually remember it for being wonderful while it lasted.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 1:18pm
JaneSmith says:
Wiser,
So sorry to hear you were hurt by another Lovefraud agent. That can’t be good at all after recovering from your ex psycho. And I think the statements made by Oxy and Stillsorting are wise, comforting and encouraging.
Doll, please don’t beat yourself up for falling in love again with someone who, quite frankly, did not deserve a wonderful woman like you. Yes, your heart is huge and generous but you need to take precautions in protecting that beautiful heart and your own mental/physical/spiritual welfare.
I truly know how difficult it is to put the brakes on an intensely emotional and physical involvement with a man. But you call the shots. A man who truly wishes to be with you, who respects you, will agree to slowing the relationship down so you’re able to analyze, discern if what’s going on is beneficial and safe for you to continue.
Spending oodles of time alone, without his smothering attentions, will allow you to comtemplate his behavior, actions, words to see if they are sincere. You might possibly compare and contrast them to your past relationships with men, in the negative and positive.
I’ve learned to not toss out my logic, my reasoning, my common sense skills while conversing with interested suitors. I also am the bestest of friends with my beloved intuition. She protects me like the most vigilant body guard and I am indebted to the Creator for supplying us with this most trusted advisor and protector.
Please don’t lose all that self trust, self love, self respect you so dearly earned after the pain and suffering the ex inflicted upon you. Have faith in yourself as a kick a**, fantastic woman because you are so damn important, so damn valuable and we all (LF peeps) will support, comfort and love you just the way you are.
Peace, Love and Joy….
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 5:00pm
lostingrief says:
stillsorting:
i had to laugh when i read your post: “… they don’t seem to want to destroy you. When I’ve run into this guy, he’s genuinely happy to see me and hoping for the best for me. He explained that he knew he wasn’t right for me.”
more excuses, and this isn’t ANY different from the s/n/p … it’s part and parcel of their manipulations. my ex used to say the EXACT same thing to me. after four months NC, he called and left a message about how he hopes, ”life is treating me well and i hope your new boyfriend is, too.” puh-leeze. he was just calling to see if he could ‘get me’ again. i don’t have a boyfriend. at the time, one of my LF friends reminded me that he doesn’t know if i have a boyfriend or not, he just wants to bait me.
yes, they DO want to destroy you. and he’s not ‘genuinely happy’ to see you. it’s just that he’s in public and has to maintain his IMAGE (all FAKE) by being the good guy. what a crock. it’s so easy to see through it when you’re on the outside looking in, not so much when it’s a subjective call.
the ‘incendiary chemistry,’ finishing each other’s sentences, the intensity of him … FAKE, FAKE, FAKE. they’re masters of getting what they want by shape-shifting into ANYTHING at ANY moment. and this, for me, is the freak-out. what they do, what they are capable of, is so insanely unbelievable. it still just boggles my mind to know what he was up to all those years. you can knock me over with a feather, still.
stillsorting, what you describe is the s/p being ‘nice.’ it’s still fake, it still sucks, it’s disgusting and creepy. but it’s certainly perceived as ‘nice’ by most people. they are sooooo good at what they do. FAKE, FAKE and FAKE. the ‘nice’ one probably just didn’t think the target had enough to hand over to make it worth his time. NEXT!
peace
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 5:12pm
Stargazer says:
Dear Wiser,
It sounds like at least this guy was honest with you about his feelings. I think it’s easier to deal with a let down when there is no deception. Love never comes with guarantees. I’m glad you have not closed your heart to trusting. However, this instant intensity can be a set up for a let down. I don’t believe those intense feelings you get right away with someone are real love, but a combination of lust and fantasy. It takes time to really love someone IMO. Sounds like it is not in your nature to put the brakes on when you start to have that special feeling for someone. It’s not natural for me too. But maybe it’s better to take things very slowly and let the friendship develop.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 9:53pm
sstiles54 says:
It just amazes me that a “human being” can be so profoundly capable of lying so effortlessly. I just can’t get my mind around that concept. They truly are so fake. How do you keep your own lies so straight in your own head? Other than the court hearings I’ve attended, I’ve been NC for 23 months. Even my dumba– lawyer believes his crap. I’m supposed to be getting a cash settlement from the ex s. He came to all the court hearings saying he was indigent, & only had food stamps for an income. I called my lawyer, & told him to get the warrant out for the s.’s arrest, & lawyer tells me the s. left a message at the law office, about some bullcrap story about unemployment extensions. O.K., now I know I never went to law school, but isn’t the term PURGERY coming to mind here mr. smarta– attorney?–the same attorney who said he couldn’t believe I had gotten mixed up with such a creep?! OMG, hello- makes you want to go into the scarecrow song-”……if I only had a brain, da,da,da,da,da,da…”
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 10:17pm
lostingrief says:
star:
‘a combination of lust and fantasy’ … well said.
that’s exactly it.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 10:24pm
Stargazer says:
Sstiles, I think this is the reason mine couldn’t sleep at night. He claimed it was from his head injury (which doesn’t exist). More likely from trying to keep all his lies straight. I have been the main witness to testify that he is faking medical symptoms to defraud the army (I never saw any symptoms). It is my word against his. He is actually claiming we were just “friends” and that I am making all the stories about him up. Amazing. This guy can lie convincingly at the drop of a hat. I’ve heard psychopaths can pass lie detectors tests because they actually believe their own lies.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 10:26pm
sstiles54 says:
Stargazer,
If it wasn’t so hurtful to think about, it would almost be a hoot! Mine had laser brain surgery over a weekend to fix an aneurysm (that didn’t exist)& didn’t even have a scar or a band aid, heart attacks (his sister is a nurse that checked his records-nothing to indicate any heart attack tests or treatments), panic attacks & PTSD from serving in ‘Nam(he never left the states-he was a recruiter), the list goes on…
They truly do believe the crap they make up, they have no actual reality. That’s scary enough, what’s scarier is that so many others believe them.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 11:11pm
Stargazer says:
OMG, sstiles, was yours 6′3′ with a shaved head? Could be the same person? Or at least went to the same sociopath school! Mine got his alleged head injury because an IUD went off in the vicinity of where he was in Iraq. He claims he fell and hit his head and spent 6 months in the hospital (this was a lie). The army has been testing him for probably over a year and cannot find any injury. When he was around me, he acted fine. But down there on the army base, he walks with a cane, cannot drive, and slurs his speech. He also claims he cannot perform sexually because he has no feeling from the waist down. I laughed so hard when I heard that one. The extent of the deception is incredible. I had no idea this was going on. I only found out when I turned him in to the army for adultery. And here I thought I was dating a hero.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 11:23pm
sstiles54 says:
Stargazer, I about had a heart attack when I started to read your post–mine was 6′3″, but he had a full head of hair & mustache. He was very vain about his hair, since his 2 brothers went bald, & they were younger than him. I thought I was dating someone “larger than life”-his term to describe himself. ..a so called martial arts expert, body guard with his own company, world traveler, special service op in the Marines (doing secret missions to rescue downed pilots), a legend in his own mind. His own family can’t believe the bull sh-y stories he told me. They have all disowned him, & have chosen to remain close to me. The only one in his own family that has anything to do with him, is is psycho brother. I think they must swap fantasy life stories.
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Wednesday, 10 December 2008 @ 11:47pm
Stargazer says:
You know it wouldn’t surprise me if some of us dated the same psychos. Hair can be shaved and shaved heads can be grown out. Identities can be changed, and stories can be fabricated. Mine shaved his head because he is in the military. Apparently, this is one of the few truths he told.
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Thursday, 11 December 2008 @ 12:01am
wiserandhealing says:
Thank you guys for your undertanding and TRUTHFUL feedback. Yep, I know…anything that intense to start off is really a major clue. But for me…one of my closest freinds introduced us. I knew all about his history and was assured by my freind …”he is really the only one out of all people I know and have ever met that I would ever suggest would be for you”.
So, with this reference foundation I easily fell into the immense intensity of it all and it all felt just so right and normal and finally like…ahhhh…made it home. I wouldn’t have let this occur…BELIEVE ME please if my freind wasn’t such a reference. I’d have probably run run run right after hello actually as I knew it seemed so oddly to good to be true. NOT blaming my freind here as he is quite shocked from all of this as well but I do know that this ‘quick attachment’ should have been a warning sign. I hear you Oxy…I really was conscious of this but boy did he ever present like a direct image from my soul, impossible to look away with the reference I had. He was all the soc tried to mirroe x’s a million.
Indigo, thank you…ya..I know it’s not me…still not convinced he’s a soc but only 2 options and he’s playing the ‘ill’ option quite well.
Stillsorting…thank you. Yes I do agree with you and I don’t think this one was intentionally seeking to destroy…perhaps have a ‘holiday’ from his own darkness but not intentionally trying to cover my light. I will BE FLABBERGASTED if I find he’s done this to others though or has moved on or something. Time will tell. We’ll see how long this ‘illness’ consumes him.
Jane…thank you. Ya…duped regardless of explanation. You are wise and very wise words to Doll. That’s the one thing I can truly say that the damn S gave me is 100% confidence in my trust in myself and when we are all through and over it…nothing will dent this. As much as I’m shocked and hurt by ‘ill’ boy…I still feel confident and strong…these streets I have walked before so I know the way now.
Stargazer…yes, thanks. I know…the beginning intensity is not real…just a drug really and I had a pipe ready to go. Was just so so hard to discredit this soul who seemed to know me for centuries without any prior knowledge. Really felt ‘Real’. We both just seemed so eaqual in our love…like the mirror just got us higher and higher because there was really no end in that reflection. Until the ’snap’. lol.
I mean really…a ’snap’ is the only other possible half accepted excuse other than being a soc. I think he is just cowardly and the stress of a major move triggered undealt with past trauma and now he is stuck. My problem is that even though he is stuck there how the hell can you not have any feeling any longer? From 100 degrees to mi nus 20 in one day. He did half heartedly admit to Dissociative Identity Disorder which would explain this I guess but he still can e-mail me like he knows who I am but as thougb I am just some freind he’s had for a long time…definately no lover! BIZARRE!
Regardless of all this craziness I have relearned to trust myself thanks to the ‘definate soc’ and know I will overcome this disappointment regardless of the cause of it. For that…I am SO SO TRULY thankful for and that is one thing I was never able to say about the soc before this experience. I have been trained and evolved. We are all evolving and we are family.
Thank you everyone for being here…this place is always our home our TRUTH.
p.s. star and stiles…you guys crack me up…don’t know how many times I wanted to e-mail someone who blogged CONVINCED we were or had been with the same guy. They are all the same man! Just differnet masks!
‘
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Thursday, 11 December 2008 @ 3:44am
Wini says:
Wiserandhealing: Well, I’m confused. You said this great guy moved all across the country to be with you! Am I correct? If so, how would a friend know him well enough to make the perfect connection for you and him? Unless, of course, that friend of yours was from the same state as your EX?
Or, maybe I read your post wrong.
Peace.
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Thursday, 11 December 2008 @ 4:19am
wiserandhealing says:
Hi Wini,
No the ‘great guy’ was due here this coming Saturday. He is in another Province. Up until last Friday I have gotten the same consistant loving guy…actually text messaging me each morning with the exact hours it will be until his plane arrives.
My freind grew up in the same town as him but has lived out here in the West for several years and unfortunately moved to Alberta last year. My freind came to visit earlier this fall and that is how he introduced us.
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Thursday, 11 December 2008 @ 4:47am
JaneSmith says:
Wiser,
Hi sweetie! How are you doing? I surely know how you feel. Oh, yes I do! But I’m not you and you’re the one hurting right now.
You know, I was involved with a guy like this a couple of years ago. He even told me in the beginning that he didn’t have the energy, the desire for a relationship. This was before we even started hanging out together. I was still in my fixer phase and arrogantly thought I could “love him to mental/emotional health”. That I would enchant and seduce him to fall for me..snort…what an ego I had, huh?!
Anyway, I stubbornly refused to just let us be ships passing in the night and told him I wanted to be with him. A couple of months later he deliberately picked a fight with me and I called it quits (this the day after he confessed to falling for me). He wanted me to be “bad guy” and break up so he could ease his conscience without any guilt attached. (hindsight is 20/20).
Well, I called him every foul name I could think of (alone, to myself, of course) and I could still bad mouth him on LF, but what’s the point? He just wasn’t for me and I realize that now.
My experience with him is a cautionary tale for me. If a guy says he’s not interested in a relationship, I will believe him and not pursue him in an effort to appease my stupid ego.
I got burned but I’m relieved it happened after a short period of time and not months, or even years later.
These troublesome involvements with “dangerous men” only reinforce our own personal strength, personal power, our grit and determination to protect ourselves from future harms. I truly believe that, and you stated above that there’s no way in hell that ANY man can undermine and destroy the healing and recovery you’ve sought to help yourself.
You go Girl!!
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Thursday, 11 December 2008 @ 2:32pm
Iwonder says:
Hi Wiser:
Just be glad the big boss upstairs was watching over you and didn’t allow you to get sucked into a long-term thing with this guy.
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Thursday, 11 December 2008 @ 5:53pm
nic says:
I guess the holidays are getting to me a little. This will be my 2nd holiday without my husband. He has gone straight from my home to his mistresses home. I am glad he is gone but I am still somewhat jealous. He called to take my daughter to navy pier today which he never asks to get her on a weekend. So I guess he is going to parade around with her 4 kids (they have one together that is one year younger than ours) and our child. That is so sickening. Between the both of them they have 6 kids and she is only 30 and he is 35.
We use to take the kids to navy pier and now he is trying to play dad to her kids. He had been cheating on me with this woman for half of our marriage. I didn’t find out about their baby until the baby was 7 months old. I hate this man but yet I still care for him. How can he do this to women and children? That is how people get seriously hurt. When I tell him about himself he gets mad and doesn’t listen. He believes he is a nice guy. We have finally agreed on a settlement so it is just a matter of weeks and we will be divorced. I wrote and told him that I am sure he will be happy when we are divorced. He replied, “I am sorry you feel I am that cold.” This man is crazy.
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Saturday, 13 December 2008 @ 3:08pm
lostingrief says:
nic, exactly, he’s crazy.
this is the kind of mental illness that normal people can’t wrap their brains around, and so it’s infuriating, jealousy-provoking and maddening, all at the same time.
my ex is on baby number four with woman number three. he was cheating on me for 7 months; lying, deceiving, and getting some other chick pregnant.
save your breath. telling him about himself is like talking to a one year old. they don’t care who they hurt as long as they get what they want. let her deal with his nonsense. she’ll be crying soon enough, and he’ll be talking the same smack to her and about her.
you’re free to be your true and authentic you, without having to make excuses for his sorry ass.
peace.
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Saturday, 13 December 2008 @ 5:09pm
Stargazer says:
Dear everyone,
It is just really unfair that these assholes hurt people so much and just get away with it. I am feeling pretty angry about this today. I feel so helpless about it. You can’t warn people. You can’t tell people. No one believes you. Everyone thinks you are a drama queen. All you can do is walk away from your friends and the things you loved because they are tarnished by a stupid f’ing psychopath. It SUCKS. I’m tired of him having the influence over my life. Why can’t he just go away???? The worst part is that they have moved on with their lives as if we didn’t even exist! Just happy as a clam, gobbling up all my friends and turning them into his friends. I f’ing hate him. How dare these creeps do this?
Okay, can you tell I’m angry? The WORST part is that I have no one I can talk to about it. I can only do it here. No one understands. That’s the part that sucks so much.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 1:33am
OxDrover says:
Dear Stargazer,
Sweetie, yes, he screwed you over, and screwed his wife over and tried to screw the army over, but you know what? He will NEVER EVER HAVE WHAT YOU HAVE, A SOUL AND A HEART THAT CAN FEEL LOVE.
Yea, being mad is part of it, and that will come and go, so rant away–heck, USE ALL CAPS IF YOU WANT TO “SCREAM” TO US! LOL
But your “friends” are not much “friends” if they dump you because of him. They may be acquaintences, but not FRIENDS, and you know what, he will never ever have real “friends” cause he uses people. All he will ever have is acquaintences. And,yea, your peeps don’t understand, but WE DO, so scream to us all you want! That’s why we’re here! ((((Hugs and prayers)))) Oxy
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 1:51am
Stargazer says:
I wouldn’t be so mad, Oxy, if my friends on the site all stuck by me and believed me. But a few of them have stabbed me in the back over this, and the whole thing is very upsetting. What if you found out some people here were secretly friends with your S’s? How could you ever post on this site again? So I don’t really want to go back to the reptile site again, even though I have loved it so much. It’s so relaxing at the end of a hard day to come home and goof around with people there. But there is this dark cloud hanging over it for me, and that is the influence of the stupid pathological creep! One of the girls on the site I think may have recommended him to snake sit for another member in Colorado. I’m not sure, but this is the way I took her cryptic message. So fine, let them all be conned off by the loser. I hope he steals their snakes and their identities too. None of my f’ing business! They can all go screw themselves. That’s how I feel. There are lots of other reptile sites, but it’s a lot of the same members and they all know each other. I cannot tell you how much this all pisses me off!!! I’m sure there is a positive side to getting off the internet. But I think I should do it on my own time frame, and not because I’m driven off my some f’ing nutso creep that charms everyone around him. UUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHH. I hope the army buries him! I really wish he would end up in prison where he will get all the action he wants and PLENTY of “snakes”. I think if they took away the air he breathe and lets him slowly suffocate to death, it would be too kind.
Thanks for letting me vent. I’m pretty sure I’m not done yet. Just a warning.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 10:11am
Wini says:
StarG: GOOD SUNDAY MORNING TO YOU SWEETIE!
I think why the hurt keeps haunting you is that you got into your relationship with your EX because you wanted to love him and vice versa. Unconditional love on your part. That you finally wanted that person in your life to love you unconditionally too … settle down with him, be there for him and he would be there for you.
Except StarG … “they” don’t love unconditionally! They have ulterior motives for why they get involved with any of us. “We: getting involved with them purely out of love and respect and assuming they did the same when they met us. Never in our wildest imagination could we fathom the depths that there are so many others out there that have such cold, calculating and diabolical motives for meeting others, believing in worldly goods.
There is NOTHING that any one has NOT gotten already from God. God gave us every thing that we would ever need … all the rest is superficial, man made stuff. Why so many in this world want to insist on being of the world, is beyond me. We are spirits visiting this world, we are NOT of this world … we never will be.
It is because humans want to believe in their own egos which ends up believing in the superficiality of this world.
StarG, your EX, like all our EXs and others that are like our EXs need to understand this concept. From dust or human forms came into this world and to dust our human forms will go when our spirits leave this world. We brought nothing into this world except our spirits … to be housed in physical form for a short while to experience human life down on Earth … and we will take nothing with us when we leave this Earth … we even leave the physical form when we go … our spirits go on … without our human form!
Peace to your heart and soul StarG, for your soul is your spirit.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 10:33am
Stargazer says:
Wini,
As usual, your post has a lot of wisdom. I am going to reread this later when I’m done with my busy day and see if I can get some peace in this situation. I think the venting has really helped a lot.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 10:52am
Matt says:
Iwonder:
I just came across your post from last Tuesday “God forbid I ever let myself be treated like I was…I was used…just for a free meal…free car…free everything…for a few lousy crumbs of affection here and there.”
I was thinking back to the last trip I took the S on to my family’s home in Greece. That trip will go down in hisory as a disaster to rival the Chicago Fire, the sinking of the Titanic and the massacre of the Huegonots.
I remember towards the end of the trip going into a nightclub with the S and looking at all these happy couples –straight and gay, obviously in love, and thinking “why can’t he give me that when I’m giving him that?” When he actually took my hand later that evening I almost felt like it was being done for show. But I pushed that thought out of my mind because I was so happy for that crumb of “affection”.
The day before we left I was sitting by the swimming pool of a hotel and looked around at all these happy couples in love. That was when the magnitude of how empty our so-called relationship was hit me full force.
I remember starting to cry because I finally had to admit to myself that I had settled for S throwing me an occasional bone of affection — which I would then make into a fabulous feast of love in my mind. The problem was I was slowly starving to death emotionally. It was then that I realized that was all I was ever going to get from S.
Last night I went out to dinner with a friend who said to me about S “I don’t get it. You offered him everything — a lifestyle he couldn’t even remotely afford on his salary — a great apartment in a doorman building — travel — the works. And then he turns around and steals a piece of clothing from your neighbor’s in Greece? What is he crazy?”
Not crazy, I know. But the most impaired, hateful person I ever met.
As lonely as I am at this moment, I realized that I would rather be alone the rest of my life than ever be alone in a relationship like the one I had with S — settling for crumbs. If Dante had known about relationships with an S, he would have added an eighth circle of hell in his Inferno.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 11:17am
nic says:
Matt, I had someone say the same thing to me. My husband and I had a big house, rental property and we were a “power couple” so why would he just leave and abandon everything? He now is living in an apartment with his mistress and her 4 kids by different men including my husband. Is it just me or is it expensive raising kids and now he is with someone with all of those kids. He thinks spending money means I should be ok. Between his oldest daughter and our daughter my husband spends over 2800.00/mo. in child support. If this 3rd woman takes him to court he is going to be in trouble. That is why I think he is trying to hold on to her even though he still tries to be intimate with me. I feel lonely but I was thinking back when we were together and I was lonely also. He would come home at 6 or 7:00 a.m. from a “friend’s house” and then try and do things with me. I later found out it was another woman but my point is I was lonely and didn’t realize it.
Stargazer, I am so mad also. I was worse a year ago but I am getting better. It was pretty rough this weekend. My S will be 35 tomorrow and I am just wondering how he will celebrate. I know I need to stop thinking about him at all. I don’t want to make myself go crazy thinking about him and what he will be buying her for the holidays. And yes everyone thinks I am crazy. They also think his first child’s mother is crazy because she had him locked up, she broke out his car windows, busted his lip, etc. I found out she did all of that because he cheated on her. Oh well, he still hasn’t learned his lesson.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 11:46am
OxDrover says:
Dear Matt,
You are so RIGHT, we are “less lonely” ALONE than we are with them. Yet, some of us (victims) will bounce from “relationship” (with Ps) to relationship and just wind up with another P because we don’t realize that NO ONE can fill our “closeness” need, we have to become WHOLE within ourselves before we can be part of a healthy relationship with anyone.
My late husband and I had a great relationship, but yet I did depend too much on that relationship for my happiness. AFter he died (accident) I was so “lonely” that I opened myself right up to a P who wanted another “repectable wife to cheat on.” (having been caught by his wife of 32 years and cast out).
For several years after my husband’s death, I was NEEDY for someone to fill the VOID within me, but I have now realized that ONE IS A WHOLE NUMBER, not just part of two.
I can be very WHOLE and very COMPLETE without a partner, and I sure don’t want a bad relationship. If we LOWER OUR STANDARDS ENOUGH, any of us could be “married” by nightfall by just going to our local wino shelter, and picking us out a partner and taking them home. While it is easy to see this analogy and laugh and say “I would never do that!” Yet, in a way, some of us do just that thing. We lower our standards of morality, responsibility, etc. in the partners we would “consider.”
We pick up on someone who is “beneath” us in every way, who is not responsible, doesn’t want to work, pay their bills, provide a living for themselves, uses drugs/alcohol, is sexually promiscous and say to them “Hey, if you will come home with me and pretend you love me, I will meet your needs, provide you a house, a car, money, clothes and heck, I will even let you abuse me.” WHAT A DEAL!
Then when we “do all these things for them” and they quit pretending to “love” us, we feel like we have been ripped off! Yep, they didn’t keep their part of the bargain. When the psychopaths that were ripping my mom off for money were arrested, she was FLABBERGASTED and said “But they were always so RESPECTFUL of me!” She just didn’t get it that because they had been so “sweet” to her while they were ripping her off that they could possibly have had bad motives.
I, on the other hand, in trying to warn her about them, was “disrespectful” because I raised my voice to her! LOL ROTFLMAO
We don’t deserve some “bum” who wants to use us, abuse us, and betray us, we deserve to be treated with respect and care, so it is up to us to demand the treatment we deserve and not “settle” for the “wino” because we are needy.
We are capable of being WHOLE people within ourselves and then, when we meet another WHOLE HUMAN BEING, not the hollow shell of a psychopath, we will be ready for a REAL RELATIONSHIP between TWO WHOLE PEOPLE.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 12:50pm
Healing Heart says:
Hello Matt – thank you for writing about your relationship. What you said, how you described your relationship, resonated with me on so many levels. You are a criminal lawyer, and “shouldn’t” have been fooled. I am a psychologist – how the hell did he dupe me? I’m a shrink!!!! Good God. And living your life waiting to be thrown a bone of affection….and thinking you might get back the man you fell in love with and the relationship you once had….so, so, so, painfully familiar.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 4:26pm
lostingrief says:
matt: great post.
yup, crumbs. a crumb here and a crumb there, and for some reason everyone who is associated with the s/p/n — all of whom are getting crumbs — think it’s a wedding cake!
he was so built up in my mind; the mayor, the man about town, the hot street brutha, the upright professional, the doting father, the sexual god, the charismatic do-gooder. he was everything to everyone, and he was all mine. (yea, right.) i felt like a queen. and so did every other girl he had at his beck and call.
i miss everything i thought he was. nothing in my life ever felt more real … or more intense. now, with a little objectivity, he is just another man-whore with too many kids by too many women — a dime a dozen. he’s not gorgeous; he’s a little too short, his head is really small, and he’s losing his hair. his personality is reprehensible; a user, a taker who is nothing but a phoney, smooth-talkin’ fake smilin’ loser. nothing about him was real, but he deserves a friggin’ academy award, that’s for sure. i got scammed and played for 25 years by the master of the underworld. and that makes me one powerful, strong woman. any one less would be long dead.
their kind of sick is beyond the comprehension of those of us who possess a soul. therefore, the only way i have found to heal is to remember in every lonely, sad moment, that what he wrote on our brick wall was the only truth he ever shared: thug for life. in the moment he wrote that, he knew somewhere in that empty being that he was that alone — a no-good thug without one bit of concern for anyone but himself. and so they go …
as we heal, we MUST remember that in order for each of us to move forward in to the new year, we must leave behind this old year, and with it the anger and resentment and grief. let’s remember our new promise to ourselves: to be a bit more careful to notice red flags in those we meet and let into our lives, and to love ourselves fully, knowing we simply loved.
we are all strong, amazing spirits … with conscience. let’s forgive ourselves in every corner of our being for whatever we think we did wrong, and know that we only blame ourselves because our s/p/n’s didn’t let go of us until they were sure that every ounce of our being believed the lies.
we hold the trump card. NC.
in truth, we are free.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 4:33pm
OxDrover says:
Healing heart,
it is amazing to me how many MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS and other “social” professionals, lawyers etc. are here on this site. I am a nurse practitioner AND a mental health professional. You would think that our education and experience would help us be more immune to this hype, but it seems that we, of all people, seem to be more vulnerable! LOL
Being on the “wrong side” of the clipboard was very difficult for me, believe me!!!! When I went to a new therapist for my PTSD, he spent 2 hours on intake interview and then at the end, very KINDLY asked me if I would bring in some PROOF or a WITNESS that what I was telling him was TRUE! LOL The poor guy was suprised when I LAUGHED and told him “NO PROBLEM, I’m NOT a paranoid delusional nut case, this is all TRUE!” LOL So the next week I took in my son and court documents and we had a good laugh about it all, but my “story” is about that bizzare, and most of us can relate to that part of it all.
And you know, when I was on the “right” side of the clip board I had heard some pretty bizzare stories from my patients/clients. I think, too, that I was so arrogant that I thought I was not likely to be “taken” like these patients had been. I realize now, that I didn’t let my husband beat the crap out of me and go back and go back, but I DID let my SON, so what’s the difference? Of course, nothing! I am no longer arrogant about it. I realize I am just as vulnerable and human as anyone else in the world, and so now I am using my hard won “humility” to help me build up my defenses.
I am putting all my “larnin’ ” to good use on MYSELF and not concentrating of fixing others when my own world is falling down around my ears. I have a Ph.D from the University of HARD KNOCKS now, and I think that is the most and best education I ever got. I’m just sorry I had to take “remedial” classes in Psychopath 101 MULTIPLE TIMES.
At least I can laugh about it a bit now!
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 4:36pm
Healing Heart says:
Oxdrover – wow – you too?
My God! You are right, I think we are more vulnerable types – probably because we are attracted to the “caring” field for the same reason we are attracted to sociopaths.
You know what? When I started dating the ex and heard the story of his childhood, I said to him “You should be a sociopath, but you’re not, I can tell.” My God, my god, my god. Such foolish arrogance!!!
I remember saying to him early on (this was my TRUE, wise, self speaking) something like “I know I should be afraid of you, but I am feeling no fear at all.” I thought that meant he was okay…..that my gut was telling me he was okay. In truth, what was happening was that I was going into a trance- his trance. I let him put the morphine drip into my arm and I didn’t want to look at the truth until I absolutely had to. I WANTED to believe his lies. I chose to believe them – until I simply could not any more – they were so outrageous, and there was no way any moderately conscious individual could pretend they didn’t realize they were getting their ass kicked. I can’t believe what I allowed myself to believe…..
Wow……I hope I don’t need to take psychopath 101 again! I’m hoping I passed this time! I recognize that I’ve failed the class a few times already……at least I know now that I was enrolled as a student in a class.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 4:45pm
Indigoblue says:
Crumbs
I Can Relate . More like dust !
HAHumMM , Beer , Cigaretts ?:)~ LOVE JJ
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 7:43pm
Stargazer says:
Nic,
I hope you do something nice for yourself tomorrow–go to a movie, have lunch with a friend, make a little voodoo doll that looks like him and stick pins in it…….anything to distract yourself.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 8:44pm
Matt says:
Lostingrief:
Not only do those of us getting the crumbs think its a wedding cake, I was so deslusional I was ready to take the S out to California and do the whole 9 yards including the wedding cake. A friend of mine who is a matrimonial lawyer told me point blank “If you’re determined to marry this clown, I am going to put the mother of all pre-nups in front of him and force him to sign it.” Obviously he saw the S’s true character way before I did.
Guess I dodged that bullet — because prenup or no prenup I know it would have cost me a fortune to get rid of that parasite.
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 9:08pm
Healing Heart says:
When you are starving, a tiny little crumb tastes amazing…but you’re still starving, and its just a tease, it makes you hungrier and crazier. Well, at least it did that to me. In the end I would be so happy if he just smiled at me, or laughed at one of my jokes. So sad. In the beginning he put me on such pedestal (I enjoyed this unhealthy dynamic greatly and allowed it to go on), and lavished me with love and attention, that I was shocked that he could end up being so hateful of me. I was the same person he adored! First I was a goddess and then I became this straggly, hungry, filthy, stray dog who would wag her tail with glee when given just the smallest pat on the head. And I let it happen to me. But I’m out now. I need to put myself on that pedestal and adore myself – and not seek this affirmation from a sociopath
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Sunday, 14 December 2008 @ 9:28pm
henry says:
I will be honest – I miss the companionship, the comradere, it was and is difficult to let go of that, but my lonliness was my downfall – I am so much better now – to those of you who think you will never heal, you will. I am starting to recognize myself again, funny that they can do such deep mind games that we lose sight of who we are or were..GOD I am so happy he is gone – I can deal with the rest, just getting him out of my home was an ordeal.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 12:34am
OxDrover says:
Henry,
Was the “Companionship and the comradere” really all that great, you told us before that he didn’t like to be outside with you planting or taking care of the yard, so was it REALLY all that great or are you just remembering the “good” parts or putting a coat of paint on the old jaloppy?
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 1:59am
Healing Heart says:
Huh – putting a paint of coat on the old jalopy – I like that, I DO that. His compationship was fantastic in the beginning, but abusive at the end. At best, he was just this empty, vacant, shell of a person, showing up only when he had to. At worst he was actively abusive, yelling, swearing, and looking at me with the disdain and revulsion. SHUDDER.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 7:29am
OxDrover says:
Dear Healing heart,
Two or three years ago if you had asked me what kind of childhood I had, I would have painted you a bright picture of an IDEAL childhood and family in which I grew up, with a loving mother etc. Now, I realize that I had looked at my “childhood” through a pair of rose colored glasses a FOOT THICK.
I think all of us (humanity) in generally try to “put a coat of paint” on the ugly parts of our lives, especially where we look at our relationships. Especially as children, we think our life (no matter how twisted) is “normal” and “the way it should be” and if there is an unhappiness in it, in order to survive, we “paint” mom/dad as loving even though the way they treat us may be FAR from a loving parent. It is too painful to realize that the person who should love us and care for us does neither.
I think that sort of carries over into our relationships and we paint over the rust spots to make them look prettier in retrospect.
I do realize I had some good things in childhood, it wasn’t all bad. I did have unconditional love from my grandparents and my step father, and mother saw that I was adequately clothed and fed and encouraged me to succeed in school as far as an education was concerned. It wasn’t ALL bad.
I had a therapist tell me once that she had never seen such a thick pair of ROSE COLORED GLASSES as I possessed. I didn’t pay much attention to her at the time, but she was RIGHT ON! I realize that now that I had had them broken. Sometimes I feel like I have shards of the glass from those glasses stuck in my eyes, but my vision is still trying to adjust to life without them, without becoming the kind of person who wears “Chit-colored glasses” since their rosy ones are broken. That would be as bad or worse I think.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 10:28am
Iwonder says:
UGH. Trusting again is such an issue for me. You know I’ve just started this new relationship with this guy and I asked him before getting into his car if I could trust him…if he had a knife or something. Later, I asked if he was looking for money or something from me. Can’t believe he wants to see me again.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 12:33pm
Wini says:
Iwonder: You have the right to feel at ease … just make sure you pay attention to his friends, co-workers … and if you are lucky, his parents are still living so you can observe how he relates with them. Speak up and ask his mom and dad what their son is like. Don’t make any excuses for what they say. Jot down your notes, dates, times, who said what and how they are related to him or know him. Hopefully, he has siblings that you can pick their brains about regarding the new man in your life. Keep your ears and eyes open.
You have work to do!
Peace and good luck. Oh, and try and have a good time … with meeting new people … you don’t have to get serious about anyone … just meet them as friends and you’ll never go wrong.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 12:51pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Iwonder,
Go to the main home page on LF and there are articles there about how to “scope out” a person–I go there every once in a while and re-read these articles. All of them are good advice.
“Trusting” is NOT, repeat NOT, something we should do easily with people we don’t know. It should and does take time to see a person in all kinds of situations and see how they act.
Last year, a man from my living history group (a large group) that I met in October seemed really nice and attractive. He started calling me and we spent a lot of time on the telephone talking. Seemed we had a lot in common. When all this mess came down with my mom, the Trojan HOrse, My DIL and my P-son, I talked about it with him because he had been married to a borderline personality disordered woman and we had shared confidences. I felt like he understood me and my situation.
When it became apparent that I had to “get the heck out of dodge” he happened to be between part time jobs (he is retired) so offered to help me and I gladly accepted. He owned a small house in a resort area about 35 miles from me and he invited me to park my RV on one of his 4 lots there right across from the water. He even helped me tow it, and set it up and hook up to utilities. Couldn’t’ have been a nicer man.
I lived there in the RV for six months and he was really super nice to me, but I started to notice some “cracks” in his “feet of clay” and realize that this man had some SERIOUS anger issues and dysfunction.
While I had trusted him (to a point) and wasn’t afraid of him physically, I realized during this time that he was not a person I wanted for a “permanent” friend. At the time I saw the first crack, I was sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place and literally couldn’t go home again, plus I was also quite sick from Rocky Mountain Spotted fever and so weak I could hardly stand up, so I let that one slide, and the last episode was the week before I moved the RV home, which had been planned for a couple of weeks.
While I am VERY grateful for all this man did for me, I have not contacted him since I left and he has not contacted me. I don’t hate him, and he didn’t “hurt” me because I was not romantically involved with him, but I COULD HAVE BEEN if I had not kept my emotions in a RESERVED mode so that I did not become involved with him until I KNEW HIM BETTER.
A person who has bad behavior will not have bad behavior EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. So you are looking for a behavior that only comes out once in a while and one that will usually get worse with time as they see what yo will tolerate.
I don’t think this man is a P by any means, but he is dysfunctional and does not handle anger appropriately and is not willing to discuss his inappropriate behavior or to apologize for it. I think he was a victim, both to N or P parents, and to a wife who was at least an N or a BPD or maybe worse. He did NOT LEARN THOUGH about his situation either as a child, or as a husband to an abusive woman, and so he has NOT HEALED. IN fact, he is very lonely, confused and still angry and bitter. He is not easily triggered, but if he is triggered he responds with anger….inappropriate anger. It is a shame, but because I did not quickly give him my complete trust, I was not hurt. Of course I would have wished better for him, and for us as friends, but I realized THANKFULLY that the problem of his anger was HIM, NOT ME.
I am just more “cautious” about who I trust and how much. Going back to “trusting” people on what they present to me on first meeting WILL NEVER HAPPEN. So if you are wanting to return to these days of naivete and instant trust, I think you need to change your goals. CAUTIOUS trust is the name of the game. It doesn’t mean NO trust, but just be cautious and rational and reasonable.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 1:28pm
henry says:
Oxy _ Well it is another day and I have no clue why I said I miss the companionship and comradere. Maybe I sometimes focus on what it could of been instead of what is was. And yes there were good time’s here and there – even if it was a game for him – I was under the impression I had met my soul mate – duh~~!!
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 2:16pm
henry says:
in other words I had my head up my ass – have gone through most of my life in that painful position – nice to see the sunshine again tho!!!!
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 2:23pm
Wini says:
Henry, Henry, Henry: Now, now, now … if we didn’t have loving and giving people in the world … what a fix this world would be. I for one am not ashamed that I loved my EX. He’s the one that should be ashamed for what he did/does! Same with your EX … but I guess they will never feel that shame.
Peace. How’s the weenie doggies?
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 2:57pm
Wini says:
Henry: If it’s any consolation … I too was under the same impression about my EX. Actually, I used to tell my friends how healthy minded he was … I couldn’t believe I found someone that wouldn’t freak out over the simpliest of things in life. He acted very mature.
Now I know why.
Peace.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 3:00pm
Healing Heart says:
Mine too – I thought he was so calm and mature and serene. Nothing I said seemed to bother him. I thought it was a buddha-like unconditional acceptance. HA! Truth is he just didn’t care…..at all. Though he did log some of the stuff away to be used later against me.
I’m going to have to turn texting off on my phone. He won’t go away. Why the hell doesn’t he run out of steam? I’m not feeding the vampire.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 6:27pm
OxDrover says:
Henry, that is called
RECTRO-CRANIAL INVERSION (head up your a$$) LOL ROTFLMAO
From now on we will call it “RCI” And besides, when you are in that position, it makes it hard for me to BOINK you! LOL
And yes, it is a darned painful position. My neck has a permanent crick in it I spent so much time in that position.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 7:02pm
Healing Heart says:
Oxy – the rose colored glasses – my mother said basically the same thing to me. She said she worried about me because I wasn’t “judgemental enough.” That I saw only the good in everybody. And though that was an exaggeration – she was on to a basic core characteristic of mine that served me well for a while (when I needed it to surive) and then was the gateway for the sociopath. I don’t want to lose the loving, kind, trusting, parts of me. I like them. But I do want to lose the naivete, and the people pleasing qualities that made me such a beautiful victim – served up on a platter for psychopath breakfast.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 7:27pm
henry says:
hey it is soooo cold here today!!! I think I miss companionship and comradere in general – but I got you folks so I am not alone…
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 7:27pm
Indigoblue says:
I was in just my shorts this afternoon Hnery
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 7:45pm
Indigoblue says:
RCIsyndrome
this is when a woman will not go get her man beer and Cigaretts:)~ LOVE JJ
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 7:47pm
Wini says:
Healing Heart: That’s the way humans are suppose to act … you are living life correctly … it’s the others … well, enough said!
I’m shutting up now.
Peace.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 8:10pm
Wini says:
Well Indi, I turned off my heat yesterday and today … maybe tomorrow or the next … I’ll have to turn it back on. So … nah, nah, nah, nah, naaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Anyway, I figure if it gets really chilly up here … we can all fly down there to see you buddy tuddy! LOL … then you’ll have to go out and get your beer (smile).
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 8:13pm
Stargazer says:
Well, I’ll probably be here a lot more now that I’ve finally been driven off my reptiles sites. The ex’s hooks are just too deep into the online reptile community. He is friends with too many people I used to know and trust, and I keep feeling stabbed in the back over and over again. Plus who knows which of these women he’s flirting with and dating or trying to date. Ugh. This is extremely hurtful to me how it all came down. I’m sure once I’m off the main site for a few months, he will return, ensuring that I will never be able to go back anyway. He is now a major player in the reptile world. He amassed a collection of collector snakes in a very short time, and now people worship him for it. He has them all fooled. MEANWHILE, the army is thick into their investigation. They came up today with typed papers for me to sign. They also visited 3 of my friends with the typed papers. Tomorrow they will be visiting another girl the ex knows in CO Springs.
He will probably just get kicked out without pension after all he’s done. Then he’s free to go out and defraud someone else. It really makes me sick.
I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around the hurt and betrayal I feel from the reptile community.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 10:25pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
Just saw your posting. Am feeling like you are at the moment. My brother called me today and told me the S had sent him photos he had taken in Mykonos. My brother emailed him back with a simple “thank you.” The S then responded “Is it politically correct for an ex to contact his ex-partner’s friends, colleagues and family?”
I immediately realized what is going on — I sent XMAS cards to one friend of S’s who I became friendly with and whom I see at church, and to a couple he’s friendly with who had invited me to an event the weekend before last. Every nerve in my body is telling me that he’s gearing up to hit me again. And the smear campaign continues.
Some way to live, huh?
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 10:32pm
Stargazer says:
Oh Matt, you have my deepest sympathy Your S seems to have his hooks so far into your life. Are you finding that you really can’t have ANY mutual friends with the S? It’s just too painful. It’s like getting hit with aftershocks of and earthquake over and over. My “friends” that he knows are only internet friends. They are not close friends by any means. And yet just the fact that he’s lying to them and charming them all makes me feel so frustrated and helpless. At least it’s easy to walk away from the internet. Cutting ties in your situation is probably much harder.
Mostly, I just feel imploded. I’m in so much pain, I can’t even sort my feelings out. It’s a combination of anger over betrayal, jealousy, and helplessness. Also grief over losing my internet community. All of it. The same people tend to hang out at all the sites, and they all know each other. His influence is everywhere.
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 10:56pm
Healing Heart says:
SG – sounds like you are in so much pain.
I can empathize. Although my ex S didn’t invade my community I feel so incredibly violated by him, and feel like I lost so much. And I am FURIOUS and then I miss him terribly (WHAT??) and then I want revenge, then I want to weep, then I am incredibly jealous and hurt by his betrayals….and then I am just floored by it all. All of the strong feelings. Yours really did a number on you in 2.5 months, didn’t he? Sometimes I am just amazed that my ex S could do so much damage to my psyche in 9 months. I’ve never been hit like this.
God, Matt, is it possible to severe all common ties? It sounds just awful to me that he is emailing your brother. That feels like such a violation. I know I’m not in your shoes, but if I imagine my ex writing to one of my sisters, it makes me furious. I don’t want him to get one more thing from me – one more drop of energy from my life. They are such vampires…..trying to get something out of you through your brother…trying to wring one more drop of your blood through your brother. Thankfully my family is so repulsed by my ex S behaviors, and they feel violated themselves (they welcomed him with open arms), so he is 100% unwelcome. But mine still has his hooks in me. Sometimes I can feel them….but they are definitely weaker, and there are fewer. I hope you can shake his ugly hooks off you
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 11:12pm
Indigoblue says:
And we are off to see the Wizard ! The Wonderfull Wizard of OZ! If I only had a Brain! LOVE JJ
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 11:41pm
Indigoblue says:
Because, because , because , because , because, Because?
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Monday, 15 December 2008 @ 11:42pm
Matt says:
Stargazer and healing Heart:
Found your posts this AM. Thanks for the support.
Stargazer: After getting totally bent trying to anticipate the S’s next crazy move, I finally decided we can’t have any friends in common — at least not now. I have to find new playmates and a new playground. If the friends I made through the S want to pursue the friendships we developed, that’s their call. But, that is going to have to be way down the line. Right now I see I can’t put myself in the line of fire by giving him ammunition.
I’m also amazed that the S could do so much damage in 15 months — it took my parents many years to accomplish what they did. And even then, the sense of betrayal at what the S did is so much worse. I feel like he murdered me but my body still hasn’t hit the ground and keeps on going.
I’m relieved that he’s not part of my life, and yet I miss him. Totally twisted. If I let him back into my life, I may as well just give him power of attorney and let him clean me out.
Healing Heart, like you my family welcomed S with open arms and is now totally repulsed by what he did. When S contacted my brother, he is still so enraged over S’s stunt in Greece, stealing from our neighbor’s villa, that my brother said not only is S banned from our house, but if he has anything to say about it he’ll get the S banned from our complex, the island, and the country of Greece.
After spending the better part of the night wasting energy worrying about what S is up to, I started thinking about all the hateful things he did to me. Anger is a powerful disinfectant — it wiped out all the other emotions I was feeling about him. I realized that S may be having some momentary “fun” at my expense. But the amusement will fade very quickly when he realizes what I’ve got in store for him with the IRS. I guess that’s a case of taking my power back.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:07am
Elizabeth Conley says:
You’re doing a great job Matt!
I’m sorry about your friends. Yes, an S can destroy your social life. You’re a smart guy, and yet I bet you can’t build a projection over an individual and plant it in the minds of your entire circle of friends so seamlessly that the individual’s identity is lost. You’re smarter than your S, but he’s got crazy skills when it comes to seeding his dysfunctionalism in other people and getting them to do his dirty work.
I’ve always been somewhat analytical, but I owe my tendency to pick apart group dynamics to the Ps, Ns and Ss of my past. I’ll never be able to do what they do, or even devise an effective counter. All I can do is watch in wide eyed amazement.
Maybe your S has done you a favor. It’s possible he’s given you some people-watching insights that could be useful in the future.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 10:35am
Matt says:
Elizabeth Conley:
That is one of the things that drives me crazy. I have always managed to figure out a solution to my problems. But, I can’t figure out a damned thing to do to counter the S’s moves. Maybe, at least in my case, NC has to extend to a pretty wide net of people around the S.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 10:46am
Healing Heart says:
Matt – its amazing, isn’t it, how much damage they can do it such a short period of time? I’ve been through some tough things in my life, and definitely had parents who won’t win any prizes for parenting, and qualify for some slots on Dr. Phil…..but this experience with the S mind screwed me, and heart screwed me, and just turned my psyche inside and out in a way I didn’t know was possible.
There were times that I felt utterly trashed by the experience. Times where I didn’t know if I would ever come back. I have never, even when quite depressed, been suicidal, but was for the first time after being apart from the S for a few months (with intermittent contact). The damage they do is spectacular.
But, as several people said – we are the lucky ones – we are out. My S’ ex wife has been in an in-and-out dance with him for 20 years. I had less than one year with him, and already 9 months of recovery, and it has been BRUTAL. But I’m on my way. We all are.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 12:32pm
Matt says:
Healing Heart:
You’re right — we are the lucky ones. Two of his exes both put up with him for 8 years each.
I used to get angry at the most recent ex — he kept telling anybody who would listen that “I’m going to win S back.” I hope he does, although this is a case of be careful what you wish for. I now see that S was playing us against each other. I hope he does, although I think he’s too far gone and too caught up in cocaine himself to think clearly.
The other ex was the one who became the priest my ex sandbagged on the altar. When S started to take an inordinate interest in him, you can imagine the wonders that did for my self esteem.
Here’s my question. People on this site have spoken about contacting exes of their S. How do you go about this? Writing them a letter telling them of your experience? Warning them of your concerns?
I know some bloggers have said contacting other victimes of the S validated their experience. In my case I know exactly what the S did and what he is, so that’s not the case. Maybe I need to let sleeping dogs lie. But, any thoughts anyone has are welcome.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 1:30pm
henry says:
matt – I think every victim of a sociopath has to learn the hard way – like we are. I don’t want to talk to my X’s former victim’s. I think these people come into our live’s to teach us a lesson about ourselve’s. No Contact for me means no contact with anybody that know’s him. And these spaths are dangerous, this is why I just slowly let the experience fade and work on me. I believe in Karma what goes around comes around. We are fortunate that we were not married to them or did not have children with them. Spath’s are very vindictive and vengeful – hopefully my x has forgotten about me. I never want to see him again or know anything about him. Silence is golden.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 2:25pm
henry says:
HealingHeart – You are much stronger than you realize. You are fighting for your life and you are winning. At some point you will realize the lesson here….
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 2:27pm
Iwonder says:
HH:
I had to turn off my text messaging. I have verizon wireless and it was .10 a text. My phone bill was outrageous the first few months. I just turned it back on last month.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 2:34pm
henry says:
Matt – If his current victim seek’s me out for answer’s – I would talk to him and that would give me some validation but I am not going to go knocking on any door’s giving advice or warning anyone.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 2:38pm
Matt says:
Henry:
Thanks. You’re right. I just need to let go and work on me. At the end of the day I don’t think anything will be gained by swapping “old war stories” with the other victims.
And thank God I didn’t go to California and marry S — I suspect S would have killed me for my money (or what I have left courtesy of the “aggressive loss funds” I invested in).
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 2:39pm
henry says:
I remember a few month’s before his final exit – I woke up one nite like at 3 am and he was not in bed – he was in the computer room – and I remember saying to myself ( well maybe he will meet somebody and leave ) he did….Ho HO HO merry xmas and thank god and greyhound he is gone….
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 2:53pm
Healing Heart says:
I thought, too, about contacting exes. I couldn’t find the last name of his most recent ex girlfriend (long term gf, like me) and didn’t want to contact his ex-wife. They were still involved (this woman KEEPS going back to him despite the fact he has cheated and abandoned her time and time again), and I didn’t know what the hell she would tell me, and if it would be helpful. It was clear she is a sick puppy (had different children with different psychopaths – she is an S junkie). At this point I just want to be away – I had enough first hand experience with his evil ways that I don’t need any more validation. I could have used it when I was still with him, however. During that period of “could he possibly be cheating on me….” and “is he abusive or am I crazy…” a second opinion would have helped me get out faster. Now, I think it would only give me more information to feel traumatized about. I know the guy is a loser and a monster.
Iwonder: I am going to have to turn off my texting. he won’t go away – and he texted me today saying he was looking to buy a place close to my neighborhood. I don’t think he has the money, and certainly doesn’t have the credit rating to do so….but the thought of it freaks me out, and I’d rather not hear from him AT ALL. It’s a hook – even though I am not responding, his reaching out is a hook. And you can’t block texts! He was so rejecting of me when he was with me, and now he keeps trying to get to me. It’s making him crazy that I’m not his possession any longer.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 5:58pm
Healing Heart says:
Henry – mine would get online looking for his new conquests while I was in bed, too. God, that hurt. Though now I’m grateful – so grateful he had new targets, new women to focus his evil energies on. I feel bad for them – hopefully they will survive. I feel some bitter pleasures at the thought of the OW (plural, women) being saddled with him now – but I suppose that’s not a very spiritually sound thing to do and doesn’t help me.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 6:01pm
henry says:
HH _ No Contact – it is essential for recovery. One reason I have no desire to connect with him is I know he would lie and tell me how perfect his life is with out me and how happy he is. And who know’s maybe he is happy now – and I don’t need to know that, truth or lie. I see no benifit in speaking too him – either way it would hurt. What would happen if I told him what I thought? He would laugh and say that I am crazy – and when he stand’s in front of me I am. There is no closure with them – all we can do is fill that big empty hole in our life with new life – no closure – time and living a good life is our only salvation. I know there are some people who can not change cell number’s or phone number’s because of business etc. Too me changing number’s is a no brainer – just my opinion…
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 6:28pm
Stargazer says:
Henry,
You hit the nail on the head. There is no closure with them. And isn’t that why we are all here? Trying to find closure on a problem that has no answers. All paths of trying to find answers lead to dead ends. I think eventually, having genuine connections with other people will wean us off the addiction we had to the S’s in our lives. But the catch 22 is that once you’ve been burned that badly, it’s hard to trust enough to form those genuine connections.
I have no idea what my S would say to me if I ever saw him again. But whatever it is, it would be a lie. He may pretend to still love me. He may pretend to hate me. I actually believe he is indifferent to me and only is irritated inasmuch as I am preventing him from defrauding the army. Other than that, I doubt I even exist to him.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 6:46pm
henry says:
after the detachment is physically complete with a spath there is the nagging abyss of was that all for nothing? It’s a terrible loss and there is no where to go with that loss. It’s static. It doesn’t evolve into lost love. It just remains as a loss. Grieving a s/p/n is a burden, it’s a hole in one’s life.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 7:00pm
OxDrover says:
Guys,
You seem to think tha tthere will never be “closure”—depends on how you “define” the world “closure.”
At the time I kicked my P-XBF to the curb, I was hurting badly, I was in a terribly needy frame of mind, needing something or someone to comfort me.
I FELT LIKE there could be no closure, but you know what, I have come to the place, at least with that creep, that now there IS CLOSURE. I no longer long for him, I no longer long for anything to do with him, and recently he just got remarried and I actually FELT SORRY for that woman, cause I know she is “happy” now and thinks she has the world by the tail, but I KNOW WHAT HE WILL DO TO HER, and I know that right now he thinks he has the “world by the tail” a nice attractive woman who married him, so now he can keep the harem women from wanting him to leave her and marry them, and talk them into just staying “friends with benefits” and you know what, he will not quit sleeping with any of those women. He will tell thelittle wife, who is a working nurse, that he is going to X state for a living history event, or a concert, or to visit friends, but he will be seeing his “friends with benefits” and so on. HE WILL NEVER CHANGE.
Eventually the little wife, if she is not a total fool, will start to “catch on” and she will question him about something and BINGO he will go into one of his “you can’t order me around” rages and they will have a terrible fight. Or she will forget to say pa-leeeeze before she says “pass the salt” and he will go into one of rages. Or he will come home drunk one night from some place and crash his car and she will have to take care of him for the rest of his life.
Nah, I do not need anymore CLOSURE THAN THAT. I DO have closure. I no longer desire him, II don’t hate him, I don’t care about him. I AM TRULY INDIFFERENT TO HIM. I am getting that way about my mother, though I am not 100% there with her yet, there is still some resentment there. But I am so close to closure now that I can almost smell it.
With my P-son, my X-DIL, and the Trojan Horse P, I am within “spitting distance” of complete closure. I don’t trust any of them, of course, and I realize that my “X-son” will be a continued threat to me but I am no longer panic stricken, I’m going to live my life one day at a time. So folks, I do say there IS CLOSURE. It just takes some more time and work.
DON’T GIVE UP ON CLOSURE. The opposite of love is not hate or anger, it is INDIFFERENCE. Where if they were on fire, you wouldn’t even want to piss on them.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 7:20pm
Iwonder says:
HH: You can’t block a particular text number but you can have the entire text messaging turned off. You can turn it back on anytime. That’s what I did.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 7:31pm
henry says:
ox? that doesn’t sound like closure to me – it sound like indifference and I will accept that. I am not saying I am going to grieve for him the rest of my life. But no closure to me means that I will never understand their action’s, so I have stopped trying to find closure or understanding with them. Indifference is the next best thing, maybe even better than closure. or maybe they are one and the same?
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 7:36pm
lostingrief says:
henry and matt:
i vascillate regarding wanting to talk to my ex-s/p/n’s wife. she knows a lot, but when he discussed divorcing her, she freaked. she’s very dependent on him; she doesn’t work, doesn’t drive and has no education (but she’s gorgeous, so…).
i think she would assume i’m lying. also, what is there to be gained? i have no interest in hurting her any more than the suffering i know she goes through with him.
but, it would be nice to trash him together. i think i’ll keep it as a fantasy …
that would be a violation of NC, right?
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 8:03pm
henry says:
LIG yes that would be a violation – but go ahead I won’t tell…
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 8:06pm
justabouthealed says:
Dear Wiser…My situation was similar….A friend didn’t refer him, I did! That is, he was my first love 40 years earlier, and I had met other old high school friends and they were just as they were then, so I thought he was a find upstanding person since I had knew him “way back when” and loved him then. And he became a doctor and mega-millionaire, so I figured he must be “okay” and that made me ignore all KINDS of red flags that I AM POSITIVE I would not have ignored otherwise, and I almost didn’t ignore them this time! The trouble is, at 15, actually age 16 when he dumped me, I didn’t realize that crying for a year from the hurt was a signal that this was not normal hurt, and I didn’t realize that it wasn’t that I wasn’t good enough, but rather the sudden reversal “dump” was part of his personality disorder, and so were the several sick, cruel things he did….not just boyish immaturity. So the problem was, he hadn’t changed a bit, I just didn’t know what I had on my hands back then!!!!
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 8:17pm
OxDrover says:
Henry,
To me “closure” means that I don’t wonder about him any more, and I feel like I “understand” them as well as any “normal” person can, and there is not more allure, no more anything except indifference (the opposite of love) Just really NOT GIVING A BIG RAT’S BEHIND about them. I don’t want them to hurt, I don’t want them to be unhappy, I don’t want them happy, it is just more like I don’t know 99.999999% of the people in the world so I don’t think about them, I don’t really care about them, they just “don’t exist” for me except as “humankind.” I’m having a hard time describing what I feel is “closure” but I know it is what I am feeling.
I can talk about them, talk about the things they did etc and the EMOTIONS of pain etc are not there with those thoughts any mroe.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 8:47pm
sstiles54 says:
I agree that NC is the best thing. Unfortunately for me, his new GF works at the local Walmart, so as long as I check the parking lot for her vehicle, I can pick a safe time to shop. (I live in a really small town, w/only 1 “Wally-World). Other than that, all contact is made through my lawyer, speaking of which, another OMG-you’ve got to be kidding me- turn in my “case”. I had thought a warrant was sworn out for ex s.’s arrest for contempt of court. Come to find out, my lawyer said the judge just doesn’t to have the “poor guy” arrested, we need to go to court 1 more time- I think I’m up to 7 hearings now for the same thing. It don’t get any better than this-hehehe.
..about contacting former wives, GF’s, etc., my ex s.’s ex wife called me after I divorced the creep, I think wanting to compare notes. I almost felt sorry for her, she put up w/ his BS for 20 yrs. He did the identical things to her he did to me. it was really creepy when she called me. Thank God I never heard from again. As far as his current GF goes, I say she deserves what ever she gets. This was a girl I went to school with, & had known all my life. They became involved when they worked together. All the times I took him a hot lunch at work, & spoke to her, they were having an affair right under my nose. I say, “Have a nice trip, dumb ass!”
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 8:56pm
henry says:
i agree – if she was with him when you took him hot lunches – they were both playing you for a fool (that stinks) so she deserves what is coming………..Oxy I get what you are saying (you don’t give a flying fuck) yes that is closure – can’t wait untill I get there.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:07pm
Stargazer says:
On the subject of trusting, I have been chatting with this guy on a dating site. Just chatting. No flirting, just conversation, to pass the time. He does tell me I’m beautiful, and that he’s intrigued by this or that, but I am not responsive to flirtations right now, especially over the internet. He seems very nice and stable. He lives several hours from me, so it’s unlikely I’ll meet him anyway. But when I looked in his profile, something caught my attention. Everyone gets 2 virtual roses to send every 30 days. I noticed he had sent one. And it wasn’t to me. So immediately I’m thinking he is showing even more interest in someone else than me. Why shouldn’t he? We’re just talking. But it bothered me, and I probably won’t write him any more because of it. I really just need to get off the internet. My trust issues are just all over the place!!!
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:35pm
Healing Heart says:
I can’t wait to get to the indifference stage too. All this anger and hurt sucks. I just want it to be over. I wonder at what point you have to deliberately try to “thought block” around the experience – you know, NOT let yourself think about it, and every time you do, block the thoughts. I know its important to process the experience, and grieve, but at what point does it become obsessive compulsive to be thinking about the S, and what happened so much.
Calling Verizon to turn off my text messaging. Unfortunately changing my number isn’t so simple…my mobile is what I’ve been using for my private practice line for the past 6 years. All patients past and present, as well as colleagues and all mh contacts, have this number. I can, and will, change it – but it will take a lot of inconvenience – which pisses me off. I hate losing anything else because of him.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:49pm
Stargazer says:
I was at the indifference stage for several months. Then my imagination got the best of me with something I observed, and the pain all came back again. I, too, wonder if it ever ends?
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:52pm
Healing Heart says:
I had someone else tell me today that I was only hurting myself by holding onto negative feelings. Great. Thank you for that information. I guess I’ll just “drop” all these bad feelings on a whim and get on with my life………thanks so much for the helpful tip, lady.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:57pm
Healing Heart says:
I’m talking about someone out there in the non-LF world. Someone who doesn’t understand…not one of you great folks
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 9:59pm
Matt says:
healing Heart:
I agree with your statement that you could have used validation from your S’s ex just to make sure you weren’t going crazy. That’s exactly what I realized, before I got to the next step which was “if you have to ask that question, you’re not crazy, but you’re well on your way and better get out.”
Since S has gone, I find more and more memories coming back of hateful things he did — they fill up the void in me very well. I’m adopted that old saying “living well is the best revenge” as my motto at the moment. The S saw me out on the town on 2 different nights with a guy my brother fixed me up with — he’s gorgeous — former Ford Model and telenovella actor. And he’s a genuinely kind man.
When the S, who has become as fat as a can of Crisco saw us together, he nearly choked. Satisfying? You bet your ass it was — and it helped to replace that void full of bad memories with some nice new memories.
Today I pulled out my American Express statements for the past year. When I saw how much I shelled out on the avaricious piece of sewage otherwise known as S I had a whole truckload of closure dumped on me. Dollars and cents are easy to quantify, not emotions. When I looked at the damage I mourned all that good money I threw after bad. and all I kept getting was diminishing returns from the S.
At the moment, anger at S keeps me focused and I do what I have to do to deal with him. But once the collection letters are sent and I put things in the works with the IRS, then I plan to move onto indifference.
Someone once said that the opposite of love isn’t hate, but indifference. I agree. To hate or love requires strong emotions. By indifference I can consign the S to the netherworld.
When the sociopaths really realize there’s “no there there” when it comes to us, they move on looking for fresh buzz or fresh supply. Just like the zombies in “The Night Of The Living Dead”.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 11:17pm
henry says:
StarGazer – Sweetie – you and I also have issue’s other than our encounter with a sociopath. I think I have always had lot’s of Drama in my life. But at this point I am not sure if I am the cause, or was I conditioned by my inviroment. Narcisist mother – incest victim – sexual abuse – mental abuse – forced religon – guilt – being gay is not easy – or am I even gay or just totaly fucked up? Star I think we analyze everything to death. I spend way too much time on the internet and I get nothing but rejection or I attract user’s. I think internet dating or chatting in a forum other than one like this is a waste of time. I have tried the dot coms – meat racks – fetish sites – hobby interest etc etc. In the 10 years I have had a computer I have never met anyone worth seeing a second time. I think we must have eye to eye contact – you can feel the vibe’s a person is giving you or not, in real life. On the internet we have no real way of connecting. I have chatted with guy’s for week’s and I get this feeling something mite just happen with this one, but then the phone call and he sounds like PeeWee Herman – or I agree to meet for a drink and wish I hadnt’. The internet is another way of filling our fantasys. I don’t like trying to sell myself to the masses with the perfect profile etc. In real life what you see is what you get and if you don’t like it keep on walking. You can not experience chemistry, sexual or intelectual on the internet. I know I am rambling here – but this experience has forced me to take a long hard look at myself. Nobody can fix me, other than myself, and I am working hard on it. I had lot’s of issues before my X turned me upside down – it literally about killed me – but maybe God put me in his path to teach me something – I think so. I can not blame my X for my problem’s – maybe I should thank him for making me see the truth – I have to change me – I have alot of people counting on me to get better. To sum it up – I have to get it right next time – and I don’t need to rescue someone to feel loved or needed.
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Tuesday, 16 December 2008 @ 11:43pm
OxDrover says:
HENRY—-TOWANDA!!!!! WAY TO GO, BRO!!!! All these months I have been waiting to hear you say these things! That is what this healing process is all about!
Sure, you start to heal from THEM, but you realize there was something about YOU that made you allow all this BS…and you know, I know now that the worst part of it all was inside ME. Or I never would have allowed all this crap. EVER.
I have been so afraid all my life I think of making someone else unhappy, or not making them “happy” when there is NO WAY ANYONE CAN MAKE YOU UNHAPPY UNLESS YOU ALLOW THEM TO. By the same token, no one else can make you “happy” either—it is one of those things you have to do for YOURSELF!
I used to tell my diabetic patients when I worked in the rural medical clinics, “I am your coach. I cannot be a diabetic, and I cannot control your diabetes, I can only coach you how to do it. It is a DO IT YOUR SELF TREATMENT PROGRAM” It is the same with healing your own problems and with being happy or not.
Someone else can “coach” us (a therapist or a friend or a book) but WE ARE THE ONES that must manage our “disability” and I think there is some disability in us (at least at the time we get hooked in) maybe more in some people (me) than others, but the point is that there is some CHINK IN OUR ARMOR that they put a spear through and pierce us to the heart.
It is up to us to see where we are vulnerable and stop up that “hole” that leaves us open to being preyed on.
I think part of mine was the way I was raised, the “should’s
and should-nots that were drummed into my head as “truth” when they were not “truth” at all but OPINION of someone who was dominant over me. I was programmed to be submissive within the family.
I could have changed this sooner, and should have, but it wasn’t the right time for me to be able to SEE clearly, I was in the FOG. I may be 62 now, but dog-gone it, I am going to live the rest of my life, one day or 50 yars, whatever it is, in peace and joy. I am going to enjoy my life. I’m not going to worrry about “companionship” or feel needy about it. I am WHOLE and I intend to continue to grow and learn. To increase my enjoyment of life. Keep toxic people out of my life. I don’t need it.
My “circle of friends” is smaller but it is a good circle of people who love me, and my sons.
Internet “dating” I think is pretty dangerous. I know there must be some “nice” people out there, but you know what, I think it is like putting your hand in a big barrel of snakes and picking out one and HOPING IT ISN’T A RATTLE SNAKE. By the time you figure out you have picked up a poison snake, you are bitten. WHY TAKE THE CHANCE?
One of the things I learnd a long time ago out here in the country is not to put your hand under something where you can’t see where you are putting it. I don’t know how many times I have turned over a rockk or soething else to find a copper head or a water moccosin under it. If I had stuck my hand under there I would have been bitten.
My opinion is that the “internet dating” thing is just as much a crap shoot as turning over rocks out here is—and you are just as likely to be bitten, and belive me (and I think you all know too) that being “bitten” by a psychopath is at least as painful an experience as being bitten by a rattle snake.
I’m not “terrified” of snakes by any means, but I do respect their ability to hurt me, and I don’t take any chances with the poison ones. That and the fact that my son met his lovely “X-wife” that tried to kill him on the internet, another friend met a con woman from Texas and actually married her (lasted 3 days) but when she went back to Texas, she opened dozens of credit card accounts in his name and SS#—and I could go on, but you get the idea.
People will earn my trust in the future. Just like if I was around a hhorse that I didn’t know well, I am not going to poke it in the butt or give it an opportunity to kick me or bite. After a time with an animal I begin to trust it more, but until I know what it is going to do in MANY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS I won’t give it my complete trust, which means to keep out of strikiing range.
Plus, like Matt said about his “4-ations” if someone has a markedly “screwed up life” I don’t need them in mine.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 1:38am
Indigoblue says:
I think YOU’VE got it!:)~
And If you don’t get it , that’s fine too! It may take a life time to get It!
It’s not the destination , but the Journey! LOVE JJ
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 5:55am
stormee says:
HENRY:
Your awesome !!! I totally understand what you mean about not being sure whether you are gay or straight etc. My brother and one of my daughters are like that …It’s just that you love someone for who they are and sometimes it’s a male or sometimes it ’s a female…Not at all in a sleazy Brittany Spears/Madonna attention seeking way… It’s just you fall in love with a person, not a gender. Hope that makes sense…
God Bless…
OXY,
Love your post about internet dating and the snakes…Right on!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:08am
Matt says:
Along with the “4-ations”, I’ve developed a rule regarding on-line dating — we exchange 2 or 3 emails, and then there must be a phone call, followed by meeting for coffee. I’ve adopted this rule because too many people “present well” in their on-line profiles and are dazzling while they type away on-line(polite way of saying they lie).
Time is a precious commodity. If the person you are on-line with is unwilling to meet for coffee for a face-to-face — GONE.
I never cease to be amazed at those guys in on-line profiles who said they lived in my city and it turned out they didn’t. Putting aside the geographical factor — let’s be honest, if they’re not within a reasonable distance, but cross-country — they’re basically looking at you as either a (a) hotel when they visit or (b) a crash pad to relocate until they can move onto bigger and better things.
Or how about the photos? Then you meet them and the photo is (a) 20 years out of date; (b) they are now 200 pounds overweight; or (c) they turn out to be psyciatric candidates. I don’t want to sound like I base it all on looks. But when they show up and have so blatantly misrepresented themselves, all I could think is “And now you’re going to do what? Dazzle me with your winning personality?”
Unless you get the face-to-face meeting right up front, you have no way of even getting a remote handle on what they’re telling you is true. Someone on this site once said “don’t waste major time on minor people.” I think that’s what it all boils down to.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:54am
stormee says:
Matt,
You would be amazed how many men seem to shrink 4 or 5 inches in height from the time they post their profiles and the time in which they present themselves in person…LOL
At 5″8 I have been taller than dates who claim to be 5″11 on their profiles… Actually after the X-S” rollercoaster ride” (he also lied about his height) I have sworn off ALL dating for a “season”…
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:07am
Indigoblue says:
I do Not Lie about the size of my willy!:)~
~ LOVE JJ
I say above average and that I have never had a complaint!
It’s sad but average is less than 6. I have heard it said that Humans have the Largest willy in the whole animal Kingdom when compared to body mass. I think some where in my family history there is an Elephant behind the wood pile
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:14am
stormee says:
Indi,
I just KNEW there was something extra-special about you….LOL
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:19am
Iwonder says:
Matt:
Your on-line dating approach is the way to go. I met this guy on a dating site. We exchanged a few emails and then talked on the phone several times before meeting for 1 drink after work one day. This way, I got to see if his post and photo were accurate. They were. I then googled his name and found his profile for the company he works for…exactly the occupation and place he said he worked at. So then we went out again for dinner and had a nice time followed by coffee at his place. I cased the joint for clues of women…nothing. . nada..zip..even the decor shows no woman ever lived there. He is making me dinner tomorrow at his place. There is chemistry so who knows where it will go.
I think it’s so funny about what you posted about photos. I purposely only put a head-shot of me on-line. This rules out a lot of guys that just are looking for a bang. I also would recommend staying away from posts where photos show the guy has his shirt off, or is posing in front of a fancy car, or photos showing he is a party animal drunk out of his mind in a bar. The pictures crack me up. Even some of the names they use on the dating site tells you something. You can also tell by the emails you receive if they were “cut and pasted” and sent to like 100’s of people…they are very generic and don’t even mention one word about what you wrote in your profile post.
I wouldn’t rule-out on-line dating..I would just be very selective like you are doing. I know 2 men who met their wives on line so I don’t want to rule it out.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:22am
Indigoblue says:
Hahahaha
~ LOVE JJ
I was talking about my nose!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:23am
Iwonder says:
Indi:
You’re crazy. I love your sense of humor. There definitely is someone out there for you. If you weren’t gay, you would be mine.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:25am
Indigoblue says:
Your so sweet! Thanks!
Never look a gift hourse in the mouth!
Never refuse a compliment even if it is backhanded!
You have only one shot most of the time to make a good impression! Don’t Blow it!
I am Very happy for you and your date! I am sure you will do fine! It’s him I am worried about! He has’nt a clue How Much you know now and how wonderfull you are! LOVE JJ
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:30am
stormee says:
Or mine (sorry Iwonder) …even with your looooong “nose’….
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:30am
Indigoblue says:
Like wise
You Both and many others here around our Fire are very desirable because you are real! I never Cry! Ever!:)~
This site proves that there are GOOD PEOPLE out there and that they are approchable ! Ya just GOTA grab your Nose and go for it ! the only thing to Fear is Fear its self ! LOVE JJ
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:36am
Healing Heart says:
Hey Iwonder- you are a good example for the right way to do online dating. I met my S online – where he could really dazzle…you don’t see the back story online, nor do you have access to friends, family, employers for references and reality checks. You only have what he puts out there. HOWEVER, there definitely are good people on line. I have several friends, gay and straight, who have met really good men online. They just have better radars than I do! Some of them have offered so screen for me – but I’m determined to learn to do it myself…its the only way I will survive. Thank you for your good example! I may just try again………….
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:10pm
Wini says:
Healing Heart: I don’t know if you ever answered my question or not. I haven’t read back through the blog of what State you were in when your EX found you off the net?
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:17pm
Healing Heart says:
Hey Wini – what state I was in? Do you mean state of mind, or state of geography?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:28pm
Indigoblue says:
LIke Purto Rico!
~
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:29pm
Wini says:
Healing Heart: Was it Texas? The reason I ask … is that the guy who cleaned me out, left his home state (where I am … which is also my home state), met someone off the Internet … went down there … back and forth, telling me that he was getting his business off the ground … after a couple of years back and forth, went down to TX, married her.
So I was referring to geographically.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:36pm
Healing Heart says:
Hey Wini – No, it was in the north – he has never left. They all sound alike though, don’t they? I read so many blogs and think “Omigod, its him!” and then I realize, through some bit of information shared, that it can’t possibly be him. But it seems like they all have such similar M.O.s, and we all tell such similar stories, it could be the same friggin’ guy.
I never married mine. He did have a lot of money – and no count for where it came from. He claims to have been very hardworking in the past – though I never saw that in the present. He got a chunkload of money from somewhere – probably some kind of swindle. I can’t imagine that he got it through hard work – I don’t think its in him.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:42pm
Wini says:
Healing Heart: I’m in the North East … and my ex conned $250,000 total from me … and $125,000 each investor (their were 2 for his start up company).
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:45pm
Healing Heart says:
Wow. That’s horrible. What is the age range of this ex? My ex was early 40s with very two very young children. I doubt its the same guy – as there was no Texas ever in his story. But who knows – their stories are so laden with lies.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:55pm
Wini says:
Healing Heart: My EX is 59 this year. 2 daughters. One graduated college a few years ago (Embry Riddle) and the youngest is now in designer school (Europe).
Yeah, the reason they have money is they get it from the other people in their lives.
We are their business.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 4:58pm
lostingrief says:
healing heart: i must have given my ex-s/p/n $50,000 in the past 10 years alone. there was always some emergency. now i realize he was using the money to trap other women, to support his kids, buy presents for his harem, to pay his mortgage on his house (where his wife and kids live), etc. he never bought me one friggin’ thing … ever.
you’re in good company here. he would always tell me that if i didn’t give him the money, he’d ‘get it somewhere else.’ i knew this meant he would be with some other female, so i always relented so he wouldn’t cheat on me. how big an ass was i??? he was doing that anyway!
we’re all in the same boat. don’t try to understand their behavior; it will make you crazy. just remember that NC is the only way to recovery from these parasitic serpents!
TOWANDA!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 7:58pm
Healing Heart says:
Hi Lostingrief. Thank you for sharing. I’ve been reading your posts for a while, and have really appreciated your shares – they have helped me considerably. I threw my S out of my home in march, and have been checking out LF since then, reading everything – articles, blogs, etc. The blogs were especially helpful and shed so much light on my situation and helped me get out and stay out. I didn’t log on myself until just a few days ago. Somehow I was afraid to do so. But I’ve been reading all about you and the other folks on this blog for so long, I wanted to actually join you realtime. Thank you for listening, and caring. And again, thank you for sharing. You’ve been helping me for a while – without even knowing it.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 8:58pm
sstiles54 says:
…if only the one(s) who duped us all was only one person. I still find it hard to believe that so many evil beings can exist. Mine was born in WA, moved to MI, & was working in my home state. From all the posts about locations, they’re just every where!
I definitely feel ALOT better since starting to write here, & empty the poison out of my heart & soul. I, too have learned quite a few coping tips & healing advice here. You are all a great bunch of people.
I am in the process of reading “Without Conscience”. Very scary info about the spaths in there, but very good to know, also.
All of you have a peaceful evening, & stay warm if you live in the northern part of the country.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 9:24pm
brenda1213 says:
these sociopath should live in their own “world with the rest o them that refuse to take meds and live in a normal society and just leave us normal residents hard working people alone….but then who would their prey be????? anyone know the answer to this question???? let me no
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:01pm
Wini says:
brenda1213: Good question. We have been trying to figure out that answer for a while now. Oh, they would prey on each other, that’s a definite … but, you’d probably see them very sweaty, very nervous and jumpy all the time (because they are real cowards you know) … the stakes are high at the extreme level … they’d all have the adrenaline flying sky high … cause they all have the killer instincts and their radars would be going crazy at all times. WARNING, WARNING, WARNING … RED FLASH, RED FLASH, RED FLASH!
That’s why they like to play with all of us. We are not a threat, we are easy pickings … the ones that don’t have the predator instincts, we aren’t sharks searching for blood … we’re the BAMBIS of the world. The Peacemakers.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:29pm
Stargazer says:
Henry,
I’m thinking about what you said about the internet. It really does suck away so much of my life. The reptile site has been such a big part of my life, and look what it has gotten me in the relationship arena. That’s where I met the S and all of his backstabbing cronies. On the other hand, I read that 1 out of 8 couples meet on the internet. So there must be some redeeming value. The real problem is not the S and all his backstabbing friends, but the fact that it has all become such a big part of my life. I am really experiencing so much emptiness and a huge void in my life. My jobs do not really make me happy, and I’m not really sure what my goals in life are. I tend to get a lot of emotions building up all the time with no way to release them and no one to talk to about it. I just feel like a mess. My life has always been so much about healing. But when my own healing process gets stuck, my life just stagnates. I cannot help others. I lose my sense of purpose. It’s not the S’s fault I go through this. I read that people with Venus in Scorpio tend to have this intense build up of emotions all the time. It really sucks when I don’t know how to deal with it.
And I think it was OXY who was talking about sticking your hand in a barrel of snakes……….let me just say that I would LOVE to have a barrel of snakes to stick my hand in. That would be heaven for me! Don’t you agree, Indi? (fellow snake lover).
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:45pm
Iwonder says:
My ex is 40 years old. Seems like they get better at their game with age.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:54pm
Indigoblue says:
I know Whats what when it comes to Snakes as far as the P/S/N s go , I have to use what I have gained here to try to detect them and not let my eyes decieve me again!
I recently asked a friend who was the first to say to me way before I got involved with the P. He had told me beware something is just not right about this guy! I asked him how or what gave him the insight. He said just talking to him he could tell. That was not insightfull but then he said to me , That I was blinded by lust! I don’t like to admit it but he was right and I thanked him for his attempt to help me BUTT of course I did’nt listen ! LOVE JJ
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 10:58pm
henry says:
Star – I am not pointing a finger at you. I am just as guilty as anyone when it come to internet addiction. But I remember life before internet. I think it is great in ways but other than LF – it has taken so much of my life. I had it turned off for about a month after the X was gone. I went through withdrawl – if I went to someone’s home that had internet I had to get on and see what the peeps at LF were talkin about. If something bad happens and we lose internet we lose our friends here. Then I would get off my butt, get outside and dig in the dirt or go camping or spend time talkin to real people face to face. Internet has it’s up’s and downs – personally I think TV and internet have made the world to small. And as far as dating? well in the gay scene if you are over 29 you are a troll
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:13pm
Indigoblue says:
I like it here under my Bridge
~
we all Float down here !
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:16pm
Wini says:
StarG: Have you read Tolle’s book yet “A New Earth”? If not, please do so. I think learning how to go into the “now” would work wonders with you. He deducts all the basics down into this one book. Go onto Oprah.com put Tolle’s name into the search engine on her site … he’s got 10 hours worth of discussing all 10 of his chapters. Oprah is keeping them on line for people to listen to … and they are FREE. The book costs less that $15.00 and I’m sure the waiting lines at the library are down to nothing now … so you can check the book out for free there.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:19pm
Stargazer says:
LOL Henry, it’s okay to point all your fingers at me. I am a big internet addict. I don’t watch TV so there is that much more time for my addiction. I have vowed to leave the reptile site. I only posted once tonight and logged out. Pretty soon (this is predictable), all my reptile forum friends will be messaging me telling me how much they miss me and how boring the site is without me. That is the point where I usually get sucked back in. But I have to be NC with them, too, because they share other forums with the S and are acquaintances, if not friends, by proxy. I guess it took something this drastic to get me off the internet!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:23pm
Wini says:
Boy Henry is your glass half empty TONIGHT! Troll, that’s a good one. If you are a troll, then what are we? And, don’t answer that! (SMILE it is contagious you know)!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:24pm
Stargazer says:
That book is on my list, Wini. My problem is with releasing emotions and learning how to express myself. I don’t know if he addresses that in the book.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:25pm
Wini says:
StarG: Believe me, the book is all positive. It will bring you back to who and what you are as a spiritual being. Now isn’t that better than to be reading everything you can get your hands on about the likes of our EXs. Tolle’s book will turn your whole look on life around … for the better!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:30pm
henry says:
well when your X was 12 years younger and leaves you for someone 12 years younger than him – kinda makes me feel like a troll – oh well sorry wini – guess I better log into gay.com (mature) my next BF will be older and richer….or at least have his own f– vehicle
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:31pm
Wini says:
Henry: My EX looked like he was my father … so what … they are still EX and have absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with who we are! PERIOD.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 17 December 2008 @ 11:37pm
Indigoblue says:
I got ya beat Henry mine was 18 yrs younger by numbers Mentally he was about 10 with a 22yr old body!
~
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 11:50am
lostingrief says:
henry: mine was 12 yrs younger than me, and left me for someone 12 years younger than him, too!! LOL …!
toward the end, he was making me feel like the ugliest and most undesirable woman in the world.
he was gorgeous (and so was i when we first met). but now, when i think of him, he is incredibly ugly, inside and out. he’s shallow and superficial, and he’s so beneath me i can barely see him anymore as he floats down and down and down toward the hell he has created for himself.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 7:37pm
lostingrief says:
… but how do i know he’s not completely happy without me?
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 7:37pm
stormee says:
Because they are NEVER completely happy…That’s way too boring …It’s only a matter of time…
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:05pm
Stargazer says:
Lostingrief,
Remember, they are not capable of experiencing real happiness or true connection. They only get a rush from playing their games. And they have to play the games over and over again to get that rush. They are forever damned only to getting the high addicts get when they get a fix. This is the best life has to offer them. My ex is apparently a permanent fixture on all the reptile sites. He has nothing else to do. He pretends he is too sick to work, and so he is bored out of his mind.
As I’ve mentioned many times, I wasn’t with my ex long enough to really get to know his character until the final discard, when it all came crashing down. But there were little glimpses along the way. I’m remembering now. One time he was waiting for me to get ready to go out. He was sitting on my sofa listening to Cold Play. I got this eerie feeling–I remember it very clearly–that the person I was falling in love with doesn’t seem to have any depth or substance. It was the way he was sitting there, nervous and preoccupied. It was as if when I left the room, he didn’t exist. I got little glimpses of the lack of passion or connection when we were spending time together. It’s hard to explain. When you scratch beneath the surface of the act, there really is nothing there.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:12pm
lostingrief says:
star: you’re right. one time my ex was leaning on the mantle staring at himself in the mirror — HE WAS ALWAYS LOOKING IN THE MIRROR … (i wonder why?) anyway, i said something like, ‘are you so empty inside that you have to obsess about your appearance?” he replied (in a serious voice) “i’m COMPLETELY empty inside.” i was shocked.
hmmm…maybe he did speak truth once or twice in his 40 years.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:38pm
lostingrief says:
stormee: i’m kind of obsessing lately about how happy he probably is. new, hot, young girlfriend. new apartment to live in. new sexual partner. new money to pilfer. new baby on the way.
AND, he still has his wife (as far as i know), his beautiful kids, his house, his career, his friends, his family. and i’m all alone.
it really bothers me that i get dumped after years and years of commitment to him, and i don’t even get a ‘thank you’ or an apology for all the shit he put me through.
and he moves on his merry way, not a care in the world.
there is no justice, is there.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:41pm
Stargazer says:
LIG, you keep getting stuck on thinking he is “happy”. I think a skillet is in order here. BOINK!!!! He may act all happy and confident, but it is just the mask. Don’t let the mask fool you. You should pity his poor baby and the new woman he’s cheating on his wife with. He will destroy their lives just like he tried to destroyed yours. I say “tried” because you WILL get over this. You just need to see him for what he is. Only humans feel happiness.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:48pm
lostingrief says:
star: thanks for the whack in the head. oxdrover will probably be comin’ around to second that!
i do get stuck there, don’t i?! and i HATE the thought that he’s happy. after four months of NC, i’m more curious than ever if he actually left his wife. i can’t imagine he can have a baby with a new female and his wife not know about it, right?! geesh.
but they’re young and beautiful women and i was with him for 20+ years. why would he leave them. he hasn’t left his wife and he’s been with her for 16 years. if he was making her miserable, what’s she still doing sticking around?
eh, i’ll never understand this. just have to maintain NC. i think i’m doing pretty damn good for only four months spath-free!
TOWANDA!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 9:53pm
Stargazer says:
LIG, you seem to be doing awesome. You just keep getting stuck in these little thought bubbles that make you feel bad, and also they’re not accurate. You have got to find some way to rewire those thought patterns in your brain. OMG, when I start to notice how much younger and beautiful all the girls are in Denver, I can get pretty depressed. What good does it do to focus on that? So why focus on your ex and what kind of fun he’s having? Who cares? He is doomed to fail, no matter what. This is not even something you have to make happen. He will do it all by himself. The laws of karma are a given and you can trust in them. So you are free to focus on yourself. Even if your self-esteem is low sometimes, at least it is your issue to focus on. You are doing great, LIG. Believe in yourself, and believe in the laws of karma. (((hugs)))
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 10:14pm
lostingrief says:
star: yea, karma. he’s been leaving a trail of destruction behind him since i met him. i just never thought he’d do it to me. karma has never caught up to him once in all these years. he’s still as carefree as he was when he was 15.
but i have to believe in some sort of justice, and in the laws of the universe unfolding in perfect order.
i’ll go meditate on that before i sleep ….
thanks.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 10:19pm
Stargazer says:
He will get his, LIG. Sometimes it take years. I am truly sorry for all the pain he has caused you. No one deserves this.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 10:25pm
Matt says:
Lostingrief:
“But they’re young and beautiful women and i was with him for 20+ years. why would he leave them. he hasn’t left his wife and he’s been with her for 16 years. if he was making her miserable, what’s she still doing sticking around?”
Whoa! Grab the reins, girl. Time for a little perspective. We’re here on Lovefraud BECAUSE WE FINALLY GOT IT!!! We couldn’t stand the abuse and the cheating and walking on eggshells and on and on and on because we finally realized if we didn’t get out we would die.
Every marriage or relationship has tradeoffs, and she’s no doubt made her deal with the devil. She is staying in this marriage for the money or the status or whatever her reasons. Her tradeoff? She has probably shut down emotionally. Or worse. That was something we couldn’t do, thank God.
We all have a chance to heal and move forward onto real, fulfilling relationships. She will never have that option as long as she stays married to the sociopath.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 10:32pm
Healing Heart says:
I used to wonder if my ex S loved and treated his ex-wife better than he loved and treated me because she stayed around – and kept taking him back. It turns out he treats her a helluva lot worse than he treated me. He abuses her terribly verbally and emotionally, cheated on her constantly, abandoned her when she had baby twin newborns…was just a monster. But she keeps taking him back. She will dump any guy she’s with the second the S wants to come back (and its always when she hooks up with a new guy). At times I had such ill will toward her when she was sleeping with my ex when he was living with me – and I was jealous. But the fact is, I’m the survivor, I got OUT. Although my self esteem isn’t fabulous, it’s good enough that I got out. And she’s stuck – and what a miserable life it is. She definitely made some deal with the devil. And any deal made with the devil is a raw deal. The devil doesn’t make fair deals. The devil ONLY rapes.
LG – his “beautiful” wife has an unimaginably horrible life. There’s no question, there’s no good life with an S. You are so much better off, your life is so much better than hers.
We are lucky. And from what I have seen (at least with my ex) we are in the minority. Most people seem to stay in the dance for a very long time, most people seem to lose their life to the dance.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 10:47pm
Matt says:
Healing Heart:
Isn’t that the hell of it? My ex would express concern for his most recent ex — mediating fights between the ex and his newest boyfriend. When he saw two exes ago who had become a priest, he was all concerned that the guy needed new clothes and he should send him some (they hadn’t spoken in 8 years).
The last time we spoke I told him point blank that I thought he was still in love with his ex (not that they’re capable of loving anybody, but he clearly held onto him). I now look at how I listened to this crap and I get furious at myself for not getting rid of him.
My self-esteem was obviously nonexistent at that time. But man am I grateful my self-esteem kicked in and I kicked him out. Instead of staying n the dance, I now have a new dance card. No sociopaths need apply.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 10:57pm
Healing Heart says:
I like that! NEW dance card! With no slots for sociopaths!
I think that S never really leave any relationship. Because we are their possessions, they never want to give us up. I think my S actually idealized his ex-wife when he wasn’t with her, but then devalued and discarded her everytime she took him back. And although he seemed to be repulsed by me in the end of our relationship(that was so painful), now he seems to be idealizing me again (we’ve been broken up for 9 months, I’ve been NC [on my side] for 3.5). I bet his current girlfriend(s) is tormented by thoughts of me – that he loved me more, treated me better because now he is devaluing her and discarding her – and now he’s back to thinking that I’m his soulmate.
It’s interesting that LG talked about her ex being with someone young and beautiful. I am younger and better looking than his ex-wife and his last gf and his next gf, yet I still feel sometimes, that they are all somehow better than me, more desirable in some way…..but it doesn’t matter. It has nothing to do with us, how young we are, how goodlooking, how smart. They will do what they do – which is idealize, exploit, discard, and then attempt to re-engage so they can exploit some more. It has nothing, whatosever, to do with us.
I’m so glad you got out. i’m so glad I got out…..and that I have you all to help me stay out. THANK YOU
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Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 11:09pm
Matt says:
Healing Heart:
One of my friends has a wife who is borderline. He says that she “garages” a couple of her exs — when she has a falling out with him or somebody else, she pulls one of the garaged exs out for awhile. And these men are all willing to go along with his (still dancing the dance).
My colleague I had dinner with tonight made an intersting observation. He said the next time S is arrested, any odds I want to make, he’ll cover, that S will call me for bail money. And the seeking out, sucking dry and shoving us away, contnues.
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Thursday, 18 December 2008 @ 11:34pm
Stargazer says:
Remember, there is really no substance to a sociopath. When I was with my S, he always took my side and defended me when one of our reptile friends mistreated me. He would swear that he “had my back” and would not ever talk with or blog with that person. I think he believed what he was saying at the time. The very next day, I would see him talking with the very people he said he would never talk to. When confronted, he always had some sort of excuse or pretended he didn’t know it was the same person. His excuses seemed so believable. It’s as though he really believed his own lies.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 12:17am
lostingrief says:
matt:
why, though, do you think he mediated fights and wanted to buy him clothes? if they don’t love, then what is their reason for defending anyone? why would they talk about how much they ‘love’ their exs or their kids or their co-workers … people they basically torture … or not?
i thought it might be that they think of anyone they have had anything to do with as their possessions.
interested to hear your take.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 6:18am
lostingrief says:
star:
yea, i heard for years how my ex ‘had my back.’ geesh. he used those exact words, too. what they must have meant is that they would do ANYTHING behind our back!
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 6:19am
Matt says:
Lostingrief:
I think 2 things are at work with them.
First, they do view us as possessions. I think my S’s reason for trying to get enmeshed in the lives of his exes was: (1) control and (2) that his own internal life was so empty and he had so few friends that anybody who would give him access he’d take the opening and run with it. Of course, give him an opening, and he’d be back to his old tricks in no time at all. Bottom line, there’s no love from him, just viewing people as supply.
Second, when they reconnect with an ex, they feel that the past they had with this person has been obliterated and they can go back to getting what they want from the victim. It’s like the movie Groundhog Day. Unfortunately, the sociopath always reverts true to form and the victim always wakes up again to what is going on. And the devalue and discard takes place again, and so it goes.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:24am
Iwonder says:
Healing Heart: You are so right about the wife. She’s living in hell so you can’t be jealous of her. Remember I wrote about how I contacted my ex’s x-wife? She confirmed her life with the S was a living hell of verbal, emotional and physical abuse. Same crap.
LIG: I remember your ex spit in your face like mine did to me. Guess what? He spit in the face of his ex-wife too. She told me so. Therefore, the other women are getting spit on. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather not let that happen to me again. I certainly do not miss it.
This current victim my ex is with is a little younger than me but not as attractive. But looks, brains, personality, age have nothing to do with choosing a new victim. Their targets are those whose hearts are beautiful, loving and giving. It’s like taking candy from a baby. Their “I love you” means “I own you.” “I am entitled to everything you own.” I feel so sorry for the current victim. She is giving everything and yet getting nothing back but empty promises.
You are fun, intelligent, good-hearted, and pretty so stop beating yourself up comparing yourself to the other victims. They are being duped. You gave everything you had out of the kindness of your heart. You finally had enough kicked him to the curb. You are the winner. Think of what you can do with all the extra money you were spending on the jerk. You can buy yourself new clothes, get manicures, pedicures, go on a trip, whatever your heart desires to nourish your soul. Hell, my ex was costing me $800 – $1000 a month extra in living expenses. Now that he’s gone, I can afford the gym and the new wardrobe from losing the weight from the gym. I am spending the extra money on sprucing up my condo with a new paint job.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:56am
Wini says:
Iwonder: Don’t forget the anti-social personalities in society hide behind getting “normal” people to do the same destructive behavior … young teenage boys being patted on the back for sewing their wild oats … young teenage girls thinking it’s normal to have many boyfriends. Through the years, normal society thinks anti-social antics are a right of passage and that the teenagers or children will just grow out of it in time.
Where is the school system setting these children right? Where are the clergy? The employers? The whole system has let every anti-social personality slip through the cracks. There has to be a checking system from early childhood on … to report, report, report! Don’t let me get started how college is the worst violators …and encouraged anti-social personalities … cheat on your EXAMs or sleep with your professors to get that 4.0 average. Lie, cheat, steal ideas to get ahead. Write your papers the way we want to see them and you’ll get an A (just stroke the Narcissistic professor) don’t get anything for original ideas. What a cookie cutter shame the college system is!
Peace, I’m doing my breathing now.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:24am
Healing Heart says:
God, I am so grateful for this blog. The last 24 hours has been challenging for me, and this has been a tremendous outlet and source of support.
A couple of you said that your ex S used the statement “got your back.” Mine did too! Those exact words – which I remember thinking was a bit weird (immature, and outdated expression) in that he was 42 years old. And SO not true. He didn’t have ANYBODY’S back but his own. After I threw him out, he said he “would take a bullet for me.” Again, just weird. He would lie, cheat, abuse…but would take a bullet? I remember saying “that’s totally meaningless” and he looked surprised and hurt, like he thought the had just said something profound and couldn’t believe I didn’t swoon.
I wish all of his ex’s, and “garaged” ex’s, in particular, would stand up to him. Maybe he’d learn and would stop hurting so many people. He doesn’t pay too much for what he does. And he’s this goodlooking and charismatic guy that always attracts women. He’s usually juggling. In spite of being attractive, he tends to seek out women without a lot of prospects who would be dependent on him. Women with multiple of children, women without careers, women without a lot of choices. I think one of the reasons I CAN leave him is that I do have a lot more freedom, opportunity, and choices than most of his targets. And enough self-esteem….and enough resilience and determination for survival that I would find a supportive community (You awesome people) who would hold my hand and help me through.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 1:09pm
Stargazer says:
HH, in retrospect, I think when my ex said he “got my back” he meant he drew a little X where the knife was to go. But it’s funny how he tried so hard to convince me that he “wasn’t like other guys”, how he “didn’t play the games they play” etc., etc. He got that right. After the break up I easily forgave the other guys who had hurt me because compared to him, they were like angels. He really did come off like a mature, laid back, and nurturing man. Most amazing likeness of a human I’ve ever seen.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 4:07pm
Healing Heart says:
I know, SG! My ex came across, at first, as the nicest, most thoughtful, guy! He really come across as compassionate. Which is remarkable, because he totally lacks compassion. HAS NONE, and admitted it at one point after our break up. But he came across as truly compassionate!! I thought he was actually MORE compassionate than other people. But, that mask slipped as soon as it was really tested.
You said something in a past blog about having an eerie feeling that your Ex S didn’t exist if you weren’t in the room. I totally had that same feeling at times. My Ex is so empty that he HAS to be with someone else in order for there to be the presence of soul and self in the room. I think that’s why he almost manic about making sure he is always with a woman. He is so empty that he doesn’t exist alone. They are such emotional vampires – feeding off other people.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 4:15pm
Matt says:
Stargazer and Healing Heart:
Yeah, my S also got my back — with the big old knife he stabbed me with right after he got done ripping my heart out.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 4:21pm
Healing Heart says:
HA! That must be what they meant by having our backs – for stabbing…. They DID have our backs…in fact, they did a lot of things behind our backs and then did a lot of stabbing of our backs. They were all about our backs….
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 4:40pm
Iwonder says:
Matt:
I can relate to the garage theory. My ex is good at that. He actually told me he would work on himself and come back. He also left things in my garage for 5 months. This was his way of having an excuse to re-connect. But i took the stuff up to his GF’s house and put it on the lawn. So I can’t be “garaged” anymore….literally.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 8:57pm
Stargazer says:
And the funny thing is all the while he was stabbing me in the back, it never once occurred to him that I would turn him in to the army and foil his fraud. So confident was he that he had me wrapped around his finger and that what he did to me was no big deal. I just want to give you an example of the craziness. On July 4, he told me his divorce would be final in a few days (which was a lie). We were intimate that night. He professed his undying love and made a date to bring his little girl up to see me the next day. Instead, I saw him posting on the reptile site. No call. No show. Blew me off when I confronted him. Said he had no excuse. I received the following email 2 days later, leading to final series of emails below:
S: Sherri, I’m sorry. I have no excuse. You deserve better. I’ll always love you though.
Me: What a mean and cowardly way to break up with someone!
S: I’m not breaking up with you. I just figured you’d never want to see me again.
Me: Can you just tell me why?
S: I don’t know. I wanted to [come over]. I just didn’t.
Me: There are many things I could say to you. But I suspect karma in your case will be a real bitch.
S: I hope we can work this out. (!!!!! Side note. He wants to “work it out” but didn’t even tell me why he stood me up!)
Me: [no response]
S: [2 days later] So does this mean you never want to talk to me again?
Me: No only that, but if I ever hear from you or see you posting on RTB (reptile site) again, I will contact your platoon sargeant and wife and turn you in for adultery. I have saved all your emails and voice mails in case you don’t believe me. You are a horrible and deceitful person who doesn’t take responsiblity for his actions and their effect on others. Go play your games elsewhere.
*********************************************
That was our last communication. He continued to post on the reptile site as if nothing was wrong. A month later I turned him in. That’s when his army sargeant told me they suspected he was faking a medical condition and called me as a key witness.
So the S shot himself in the foot. Do you see how crazy the communication is? Anybody else have crazy conversation stories to share? Where you’re left scratching your head and wondering, “What the hell was that?”
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:00pm
justabouthealed says:
Oh god yes!!! Tons of them! Like the time he planned a vacation with me for three months, we started out, I gave him an early birthday present that cost $500 to add to a collection he has. He went to breakfast while I finished dressing, and he came back and told me to go home! And I said “What?! If I had gone to breakfast everything would be fine???” and he simply said “Maybe.”
I told that story to my therapist and she said “You do realize that isn’t normal behavior don’t you?” And I said “Maybe.”
I was still in the fog…..
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:08pm
justabouthealed says:
PS Stargazer….I got almost the exact same words…the I’m sorry, you deserve better, love ya!
YUCKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And good for you! My last message was a threatening email also, to go to the authorities also if he ever dares even show his face, email, phone, write….any of that. And I pointed out that two girlfriends have copies of the evidence!
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:14pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
That pompous, pedantic prick I was involved with was a veritable font of crazy conversations.
For example, one day S proclaimed self-righteously “I have no baggage.” I said “You don’t get to adulthood without acquiring some baggage. My only concern is whether it’s organized in the baggage compartment.” He proceeded to browbeat me saying “I left all my baggage on the platform when I was sent to prison.” I’m pretty sure there’s an oxymoron in that last statement.
Or the moment when I swore that I was having an auditory and a visula hallucination when he told me “I love dogs.” and proceeded to shove a sock over the head of a friend’s Yorkie and thought it was funny.
Maybe we need a section on this site called “He said WHAT?”
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:18pm
Stargazer says:
Wow, I swear these S’s all went to the same school. They must have had to write on the board 1000 times: “Sorry, you deserve better. I’ll always love you though.” Before I even knew what an S was, long before I found this site, I knew he had discarded me and refused to take responsibility for for the discard. It was the craziest thing I’d ever seen. I knew there was just no way I could take him back after that, even though he wanted to “work it out”. What is there to work out? His pathological lying? Thank God I realized this and got out before I got smeared and devalued.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:22pm
Stargazer says:
Matt, I laughed so hard when I read your post. ha ha ha ha ha. Mentioning he had no baggage in the same sentence as him going to prison…..ROFLMAO!!!!!!! How could you keep from laughing? It’s good that amidst all the devastation they leave in their wake we can laugh as some of the totally ridiculous things they say and do.
Here is another good laugh for you. I’m sure most people here have already heard this story. I did run into my ex 3 weeks after the discard. My friend and I saw him at a reptile expo. He did not say one word to me, but followed me around and stood beside me at every vendor’s booth. It was very creepy. At one place we stopped, he came up behind me so close my friend thought he was trying to smell my hair. (I did not know he was there at the time). So my friend, who happened to be carrying my newly-purchased snake hook jabbed him in the crotch with the hook. When it didn’t work, he jabbed him harder and almost caught his zipper. LOLOLOL The S then backed off with his hands up in the air and quietly exited the show for the day. When my friend told me what happened, I laughed so hard I almost choked on my lunch. If they weren’t so tragic, S’s could be very entertaining! I really had to restrain myself from starting a blog on the reptile site called “Player gets hooked”. I really had a special moment to myself thinking how the last time I saw the S, he was getting jabbed in the crotch with a snake hook.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:30pm
Indigoblue says:
Here is the Game
It’s Poker! Sweet!
Ok Your Father has stacked the deck for you and the Game is allready Won!
You don’t have to count your Money because You did’nt need any to begin with!
In the game of Life you are constantly counting your money to see where you are! But the game is’nt over! And your Father is the Dealer. Who has already stacked the deck In your favor!
So stop counting your money and start enjoying the Game! LOVE JJ
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:31pm
Stargazer says:
OMG, we should totally start a blog called, “He said WHAT?”
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:32pm
Iwonder says:
Here’s a good one for you. Mine said to me one time, “I could never cheat on a woman while living with her.” What a liar. I can’t believe this OW who knew he was living with me and accepted it was ok to be with him. What is she thinking?? The behaviour was staring her right in the face. One big red flag waving. One huge sign posted “warning” and she didn’t get it. I’m sure she’s getting it now. He’s all comfy cozy in her home. By now he has infiltrated and annihilated. He has his paws on her car, her money and has probably isolated her and brainwashed her into a walking, talking puppet.
When he first moved into my place, he went through my home with a fine tooth comb…looking for any history of mine like photos of exes, checking the computer emails, checking my cell phone, looking at my bank account records, even my health records. I’m telling you, this guy is good. He wants to know EVERYTHING about you. Of course, he had no paper trails or records because he moves from place to place with a garbage back of clothes and a minimum of tangibles.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:33pm
Matt says:
Iwonder:
When you mentioned him looking for photos of exes, etc, you just brought another entry for the “He said WHAT?”.
On the night of our final showdown, S walked into my living room and said “What happened to the photo of the two of us that was on your mantle?” As it so happened, my maid had knocked off my mantle while dusting and the glass had shattered.
S didn’t believe me. So, I pulled the photo, still covered with shattered glass, out of a drawer. His response? “Oh, at least you were able to save that lovely frame.” Right.
Yet another example of “And other than that small incident, Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play?”
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:54pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
Cracked up when I read your story about the snake hook. Assuming your’s screwed around behind your back the same as mine, there is a certain … poetic justice on a snake hook behind used on his …
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:56pm
Matt says:
Sorry for the typo. Meant to say …poetic justice on a snake hook BEING used on his …
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 9:58pm
Stargazer says:
Matt, mine was married but told me they’d file for divorce through the army, and it would come through any day. He said they were living separately for months. All lies. And yes, who knows who else he was screwing around with while he was “in love” with me.
Really, I think it’s just cheaper and easier to go out and find a blood sucking leech and attach it to your skin. I wish I’d done that and saved myself the trouble.
We should be lucky our exes did not steal our identies while they were in our homes going through our stuff. I don’t think mine was after my money because I don’t have any. He was just after the sex.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:03pm
Stargazer says:
I think the all time best lie, though, is “I got your back”. They forgot to add “with a knife”, which would make the statement true.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:04pm
lostingrief says:
hi y’all …
got two ‘private caller’ calls today, and no one left a message. i know it was him. probably too snowy to drive back home to the wife, and the prego girlfriend is probably getting on his nerves by now (or figuring him out and is already nagging and hating him).
Iw: my ex spit in his wife’s face too. his mom told me that before she passed away. when i told her he did it to me too, she cried. poor thing.
now, as he lives in a bigger apt with his new pregnant gf, i wonder why he was so happy that this girl got pregnant? i thought they hate responsibility. but i guess that solidifies her as his property.
i’m doing better today. as i hope all of you are …
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:12pm
Iwonder says:
LIG:
Good to hear from you. I’m telling you, he’s going to spit in the GF’s face too, and he will lose interest in her too. The pregnant GF is in for a lot of heartache. I thank God i did not get pregnant with my ex…he wanted to. I said no. Not unless we are married first. See, he was just trying to hook me by having a baby with him. If he truly loved me and wanted to start a family, he would have married me first. See, he has 7 kids out there with 4 different women and never married any of them. What was going to make me different???
Please don’t be jealous of the GF LIG!
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:23pm
Stargazer says:
LIG: So he’s got a pregnant gf, and he’s calling you anonymously. Yeah, I’ll bet she’s really happy about that. Oh wait, she doesn’t know. He’s doing it behind her back. Sounds like a set-up for a truly happy relationship to me. Don’t you wish you were her? NOT! Be glad, glad, glad it’s not you.
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:28pm
Matt says:
Stargazer:
I wouldn’t put identity theft past any of them. Here’s my test: if your S has ever been involved in any fraudulent activity, then protect yourself.
Although I never saw my S’s FICO score, it was, if possible, a negative number, since there were 15 adverse judgments and his endearing little habit of never paying bills on time, if at all.
My S was the master of accusing me of “poking into his business.” Of course, master mirrorers that they are, that means they have probably been poking around into YOUR business. If you walked out of the room and left your S alone with your wallet, the odds are, you will become a target for identity theft.
After I came back from Greece, I not only changed the locks. I proceeded to cancel every credit card in my wallet and had new ones issued. Then I put alerts on my credit reports with all 3 reporting agencies. In 90 days I’ll have to have the alerts reissued. I’m not so sure at that point I won’t spend the money and have credit locks instituted with all 3 agencies.
Is this an overreaction? Perhaps. Is it worth it to avoid the horror of having to undo identity theft? Absolutely. The peace of mind I’ve gotten from making sure he can’t take my identity from me? Priceless.
When the S found out about the lock change he went ballistic. He also realized that the gig was up even before I did. I just happened to beat him to the punch with respect to the credit cards, credit reports etc.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:33pm
Iwonder says:
Matt:
I agree. It’s no joke. My ex took my credit card (a week before I caught him with the OW) to buy $100 worth of crap at GNC but I don’t think he was smart enough to write down my card numbers. Anyway, his new GF probably has cards.
I saw my ex commit workers comp fraud. He told his employer he injured his shoulder at work and got surgery. When in fact, he injured his shoulder from working out. I also saw him commit Tax fraud. His sister moved from PR with her kids and asked him to claim the kids on his return and split the money with her. He claimed they lived with us. The IRS isn’t that stupid. He didn’t have the documentation required so he had to pay the money back. This guy is so slippery. He keeps getting away with petty crap. After we split I asked him, “what turned you into a sociopathic petty con?” Answer: “pray for me.”
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:39pm
lostingrief says:
Iw and SG:
I LOVE you guys!
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 10:39pm
henry says:
I hope I can relay the humor I saw in a commercial just now. It is a preview of ‘Scrubs” a puppet is in the hospital bed and the docter says well I am sorry for the bad news but you have a hand up you. The muppet’s say’s ” That explains so many thing’s….!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 11:27pm
henry says:
muppet = puppit ~~~()
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Friday, 19 December 2008 @ 11:28pm
Stargazer says:
Henry, LOL!!!! In our case it would be “You have a knife stuck in your back.” “Ooooh, that explains so many things!”
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 December 2008 @ 3:14am
Indigoblue says:
I got Your Back?
Irony ! Oh, I got your Back! WHAT THE SHUCK!!!!! HUH??
Psycopath Translation = You CANNOT count on me for CHIT!
LOVE JJ
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 December 2008 @ 4:07am
justbec says:
Since I was 15 I lived and later married whom I now understand could be a sociopath. I have wondered why I was alwas stupid dumb f* mother* idiote etc. I have lived walking on egg shells. The only peace I get is when he is commenting on how hot a girl is or how that girl would easily sleep with him as he is genguinly a charmer. When we go out he extravegantly tips gets to know the managers and has bought birthday cakes for the managers. He tells me that this is the way its done”just like the italians do it”. You have to greese the hand. He tells me that’s why me with out him, I’m nobody. I have always been unassertive and eager to please. He also rubs his religion in my face. He says things like, the world is ending and all I care is about work and education. After he is done unloading his anger on me, lasting days at time. He’ll say pimpy I love you I just want us to be happily married couple. Then he’ll say that I have to be more amorous towards him and things will change. Its been 18 years now we have children. We still live with his mom, he won’t move until I find a way of buying a house with some super free govt grant that I’m to lazy to find. Yea I’ve had it but with kids now my options seem bleeker. As I write this I’m feeling guilty as I will “bring bad” to our relationship if I write or discuss my feelings. I’m starting to feel a little less in touch with reality. This has been draining. Thanks for letting me post
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Wednesday, 7 January 2009 @ 7:42pm
Healing Heart says:
Welcome JustBec! One of the things we have all been encouraging each other about here at LF is embracing the idea that we all DESERVE to have a happy life – we all deserve to take care of ourselves, make healthy choices for ourselves, and to love and take care of people who will reciprocate the love, respect, and kindess, we show them. And, importantly, the most critical relationship that we should just immerse and surround with light and love, is the relationship with ourselves.
I just met you, justbec, but I know, for a fact, that you deserve a beautiful life with love, respect, and kindness.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 January 2009 @ 7:55pm
Matt says:
Justbec:
Welcome. I can so relate to your situation — and I’m a gay man. But, as you learn on this site, gay, straight, the sociopath’s playbook is always the same.
For me I knew the end was drawing near when I finally realized that I couldn’t walk on eggshells anymore. At that point I was ready to crack like an egg myself.
Mine ex-S, like your’s was extravagent — always with my money of course. And even though I am very successful professionally and my S was not (and an ex-con to boot) he still always made me feel like I was nobody without him.
And the accusation about being concerned about work and education — that’s a classic. Basically, he’s turning your ambition to create a better life for yourself (and him, the lazy ass), but turning it against you because he’s losing his control over you. See the movie “Educating Rita”. You would really relate to it and see a lot of yourself reflected in it.
My shrink always tells me that I have the rare ability to size up a person in 10 seconds. And I always could and it served me well in my profession. Something tells me that you will find a way to get that house for yourself and your kids. But, you’re not going to do it until your S is out of your life.
Sometimes we have to put our dreams to the side for a little bit to finish up old business. The fact you’re on Lovefraud tells me you’re taking the first steps to finish up that business.
If you need something to think about to make things seem less bleak, start researching those housing programs without telling him. Knowledge is power. Get your plans in place to buy your place. When you’re ready to make your move, dump his sorry ass and file for divorce. Then buy the house.
Think how satisfying it will feel to know you showed him what you did while he was demolishing you and what you can do now that you aren’t surrounded with his negativity.
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Wednesday, 7 January 2009 @ 11:01pm