Researchers want to know about your experience with a psychopath
Plenty of scientific researchers have studied psychopaths. But few have studied the victims of psychopaths, so there is little documentation of what we have all been through.
Perhaps that is beginning to change.
Lovefraud has been contacted by a researcher from Carleton University in Ottowa, Ontario, Canada. She is conducting a study entitled Victimization, coping, and social support of adult survivors of psychopaths. The graduate student is working under the supervision of Dr. Adelle Forth, who is a colleague of Dr. Robert Hare.
The purpose of the study is “to gain an understanding of the victimization experiences of adult (18+) survivors of psychopaths, in an attempt to raise awareness amongst the general public, and mental health and criminal justice professionals.”
Everyone at Lovefraud is invited to participate.
The researcher has developed a web-based survey. The survey has both self-report scales and open-ended questions. You will be asked to rate the presence or absence of psychopathic traits of the most recent psychopathic individual you have been involved with on one scale. Questions revolve around demographics, your relationship and experiences with the psychopath, including being deceived and its impact on your mental and physical health, your ways of coping, and your support networks. The survey does not ask for any information that might identify you.
Completing the survey will take approximately one hour, and Lovefraud strongly encourages you to participate. If you are concerned about your safety, please be sure to take appropriate precautions.
Here—finally—is a chance to develop information that may make a difference in how victims of psychopaths are viewed and treated. Let’s take advantage of the opportunity.
Data is being collected from now until Dec. 31, 2008. Be sure to add your voice.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Indigoblue says:
How much does it pay
~
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 4:42pm
Stargazer says:
I tried taking this survey but couldn’t get past the “date” part on the first page. It kept asking me to fill in the date in a certain format, which I did. It did not progress to the next screen. Anyone able to get through?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 4:53pm
apt/mgr says:
Yes, I did. I kept getting that and realized that I was putting the month in front of the day. Then I was able to proceed. I wish the psychos could take a survey and give real answers. I’ve never been so confused by anyone in all my life than by the ones who called their actions love and care. Spare me. I still come here time and again, and keep seeing me. History really does repeat itself.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 4:57pm
psurvivorstudy says:
Hi all,
Thank you so much for putting this out to your readers, D. I appreciate it and look forward to educating the public with their assistance.
“Indigoblue” – Although a
~ might typically be seen in a humorous context, you still ask a very good question which needs to be answered.
The question of financial compensation did cross my mind, and unfortunately there is none offered, for a few reasons:
(1) it would be very difficult to conduct monetary transactions *anonymously* while ensuring it is given to the right person,
(2) it may pose a risk if participants receive monetary compensation and the dangerous individuals in their lives get ahold of such information (i.e., if they see an unexplained deposit in joint bank accounts, etc.),
(3) financial reasons on my own part – it would be very difficult to fund everyone for such a large-scale study.
-M. (pss).
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 4:59pm
OxDrover says:
WHICH PSYCHOPTH?
Father
mother
Son
X-Boyfriend
Daughter in law
X boss
X business partner
X father in law
X neighbor
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 5:21pm
psurvivorstudy says:
Dear “Stargazer” and “apt/mgr”,
Thank you for the feedback regarding the date. I have looked into the template and (hopefully) changed it so they can write the date in any way they wish (or skip it).
My sincere apologies,
-M. (pss).
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 5:23pm
Stargazer says:
I was able to take the survey but not sure how to answer some of the questions about the effect on my health. The reason is because I am out of the crisis period, and have mostly returned to a normal baseline. I tried to answer for when I was still in shock.
Also, it would be helpful if the screen scrolled up so you can see what answers you are checking off. (It’s probably and easy fix).
Will we be able to see the results of the survey?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 6:35pm
Stargazer says:
Naturally, writing about the P stirred up old memories. I honestly don’t think it was his intention to hurt or play me. I think he is just missing the part in his brain (conscience, empathy?) that makes a person realize how his actions affect others. After his last no-call/no-show (which was the last straw for me), I asked him why (why he didn’t show). His response was: “I don’t know. I wanted to. I just didn’t.” I think it was his attempt at being honest. It is probably the closest he will ever come to introspection.
I believe he had a history of pathological lying. But it was almost as if he couldn’t help it–he is just wired that way. It’s wierd. In some strange way, I think he did try to be a better person for me, but he just lacks the capacity. There’s just something missing. He never spoke ill of me even after we split, to my knowledge. He never said an unkind word. But lying to him is like breathing for you and I. You couldn’t tell he was lying. He was so good at it.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 7:04pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Psuvivorstudy;
One thing that was a BIT confusing to me was your questions about our moods, etc. It wasnt clear if the way we ‘felt’ and acted afterwards was right after or now that we have had some time to heal. i answered like it effected me at first (and for months and months afterwards) but actually NOW, this minute, i am doing well, but it has been a years long healing process, not something that healed over night. my entire world was turned upside down when i had to flee my home in order to not be murdered. In the end, though, I think I am a better and stronger person for what I learned from what I endured. in fact, it would i think be helpful to me if i were a researcher to know how the victims felt at the end of the relationship, how long are they out, and how do they feel now.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 7:18pm
Indigoblue says:
Survey Says???
I can’t fill in an answer do click it lick it or stick it ?
first page no box or circle to put my answer in ?
second page same deal?
I was jokeing $$$$$$ put the $$$$$$$$ in my pay-pal acct # 123 evil 456789
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:00pm
Wini says:
Indigoblue: I thought we agreed it was acct # evil as 7734?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:05pm
blondie says:
looking back, i really loved that bad man. i dont miss him today, i miss what i thought he was. i find that he really changed me. i find myself so much more aware of the people i meet, and there actions. i have no clue what kinda of person i want to date. im confused about my own feelings. i really thought i was going to marry him. happy i didt but my dreams are still shattered. its going on 5 months and i still have good days and bad.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:06pm
Indigoblue says:
Pay PAL Acct.# 666
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:08pm
Wini says:
Hi Blondie: Sorry to hear that you are waffling this weekend. It’s OK … it takes time.
I had no clue it was only 5 months for you … you seem like you were longer NC than that … I thought it was a couple of years for you … mmmmhhhhhh, you’re doing better than I would have thought for only being 5 months.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:16pm
Indigoblue says:
where is henry????
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:19pm
Wini says:
Indi, Henry is probably walking his 3 puppies… it’s not like having snakes wrapped around you (LOL).
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 8:20pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Blondie,
Wini is right. sweetie, you are making remarkably good and fast progress. The ups and downs are normal and they will go on once in a while for a while yet I imagine, but less frequently and less “down”—you are getting there!!! Happiness kind of ’sneaks up on” you, and one day you just realize that you are not in pain any more and that things are actually good and you are happy again. i don’t know if that makes any sense, but that’s the way it happened to me.
Blondie, I can only tell you that I am happier today than I have been in years and years! In the end, the P’s did me a favor! They made me look inside myself and realize what i wanted, and that I am not on this earth simply to meet their needs and to please them. They made me finally realize that I have a lot more worth than to be their victims, to be their slaves. i realize now that my happiness depends only on ME. no one can give it to me, and no one can take it away unless i allow it.
((((blondie)))))
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 9:20pm
Stargazer says:
Here’s a hug for you too, Blondie (((hug))). Seems I went through my last painful episode of longing about a month ago, and now it is an occasional dull ache. It will get better for you, too, I know.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 10:01pm
blondie says:
did you ever feel like you where never going to be comfortable with someone else? i still just feel so wierd going on dates. i cant image dating someone else, not that i want my ex back b/c i dont im much happier since the end of that relationship, i just cant image me dating somone else.. ahhh the life after the sociopath…..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 10:04pm
blondie says:
thanks for the hugs
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 10:06pm
Stargazer says:
It’s because you’re not ready yet. You will probably compare all the guys you date to him. Give it some time. One of these days you will be hanging out with a guy and you will notice you just enjoy his company. But maybe it’s not time yet.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 10:08pm
kerisee04 says:
Okay, I liked the survey, but had a few problems with it:
1. There is the general assumption that the P is out of your life. In my sad situation, she will be a permanent fixture for the next 16 1/2 years and counting, due to shared children with my husband.
2. There is no provision for any other type of relationship besides significant other or family member. What about supposed friend? Spouse’s ex? Boss?
3. Also, the questionaire portion had me monologue-ing in a bad way. It’s not just about the first time we met what I noticed, it’s about everything afterwards. The tons and tons of memories she brings up of false allegations, sleepless nights, territorial preditorizing (I’m sorry, really tired here), deceitfulness to anyone in authority, and managing to snow them all.
4. The emotional outcome for me: well, partly due to the emotional outcome for my husband. It’s all interconnected.
5. And the support network. Yes there are people who are there for me. Do they completely understand? NO. Do they wish I’d get over it? YES. Kinda like how people used to think people should get over depression or alcoholism (before it was an actual disease). They worry about the kids, yes. My family will not give me money or cars, etc. My husband’s family will. That’s because my family is a stingy lot, his isn’t. Has nothing to do with my ability to create close friendships or bonds with people.
Okay, off soapbox now.
Thanks for the survey! The best one I’ve taken yet!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 10:41pm
Glinda says:
My only concerns with the survey were the questions about the psychopath that started with “think” or “feel.” I don’t know what the xs thought or felt… I could tell you what he SAID, but I don’t believe he experienced any real emotions…and most of what he said he thought wasn’t true. I don’t know which 3 or 4 times he told the truth! LOL
And it was odd for me because of the timeline. My answers would have been quite dire and depressing the few months after I threw him out (late 2006). He’s been in prison since May 1, 2008 and I’ve felt GREAT since about July 30th! (I started feeling better around March 2007- with ups and downs, of course). But I’m a completely different person in many ways. I have survived. I am thriving.
I appreciate their quest for knowledge while protecting identity and anonymity, but I’m not ashamed of my experiences anymore. I’d be happy to answer whatever questions if I could save one mother with a daughter from the xs when he gets out of prison. I’d do about anything to accomplish that. If there was something I could do or say to save another from the non-reality of life with a socio, I’d be thrilled to make some sense from the ashes of his nonsense.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 11:13pm
Indigoblue says:
Disease shameise everything is a syndrome Bull malarky !
Ihave openthe fridge syndrome ! take a poop syndrome!smoke a joint syndrome! mastrebation syndrome !
Science has proved that we don’t exist ! Aliens have landed and taken over the sewersystem !
PLEASE, Ya Choose to drink ya choose to turn left or right
Syptems of the real cause , ya self medicate to relieve the pain ,thought ,whatever !
Stress can and does have Physical syptoms You name your favorite !
MAD cow I like that one! and Flesh eating thats a good one tooooo ! LOVE jere
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 11:15pm
alohatraveler says:
Hey Blondie!
From my experience I am going to say that not knowing what you want out of a date is a step in healing. I am only saying that because I was there.
Part of the Sociopath experience is that we think, even for just a moment, that all our dreams are coming true… and then *POOF*… they are gone and we are living some kind of nightmare.
I think that leaves us with a blank slate in a way. When I was finally ready to date again, I certainly didn’t want anything that felt like a dream come true… that would be red flag city!
I don’t believe in all that now anyway. What I believe in is taking the relationship I am in now moment by moment. I am not full of expectations but I am open.. and ALERT. Definately alert.
I loved my Bad Man too… the man I thought he was but we know the punch line… he wasn’t.
On a side note for anyone out there that knows me and my stories… the Bad Man’s wife has been in touch with me as well as his daughter and they found me via LF. This is so awesome. I am not sure what will happen yet but I am happy to be in touch with them. I know they are good people and they assured me that they are ok now.
This adds to my PEACE.
Aloha XO to all.
P.S. Perhaps she will do the survey too. I haven’t done it yet.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 11:43pm
alohatraveler says:
One more thing Blondie… like Oxy says, happiness will sneak back. For me, I recall a day when I told a friend, “I got my JOY back.”
I always say it so I don’t want to cram my way of healing on other people but the biggest hurdle for me was understanding this personality disorder thing. ONce I really got it, I was released.
While I don’t adhere to the “I AM A VICTIM” cry, I do know that I was in the midst of something over my head and bigger than me. And I did have my lessons to learn and my boundaries to strengthen. I did allow the Bad Man to treat me terribly. He always had an excuse for the inexcuseable.
It took a long time before I finally would no longer accept his excuses for his behavior or his blame shifting onto me.
Anyway, dear Blondie… keep going forward. The grass is greener on the other side of this painful disappointment.
Aloha
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 11:48pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Blondie,
yes, I’ve felt that I would never be comfortable with anyone else (even if someone was interested in me romantically). But what I have learned is that i am no longer NEEDING ANYONE TO MAKE ME HAPPY, I am making my own happiness. I think my entire life I have depended on someone else’s ‘happiness’ to make me happy—pleasing them, even when they were unpleasable (the Ps) now i know that even if I could have made them “happy’—which you can never make a p happy–it wouldn’t have made me happy. I can now trust myself, depend on myself, and that makes me happy, as a ’side effect” of being ME.
BTW, Aloha, glad to hear from you!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 12:29am
gillian says:
I took the survey and thought some of the questions were not worded very clearly. I can’t remember which ones now, and I’m feeling too tired and lazy to go back and peruse it. I do know I thought this several times, but just did my best to answer.
I also had the experience that overall I am doing so much better now. If I had taken this survey a year ago I would have maxed out on every psychological distress symptom. Now, not so much, although there are still moments….
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 2:22am
James says:
Sounds like a good survey and will take it asap. If I have any feedback I will post it after the survey has been completed.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 9:51am
Indigoblue says:
I finaly figured out how to take it the survey ! yeah ! but I am a different person now ! thanks to all my Angels ! If the survey was take 6 months ago , those depression questions would have been relavent!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 10:06am
blondie says:
i realized that im not ready to date again. im still comparing my life with the S, to other people i meet. one thing i do know is that, IM HAPPY BEING ALONE. being alone feels right for me right now. everyone enjoy your life living sociopathic free!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 10:15am
psurvivorstudy says:
Hello,
“OxDrover” – I realize that some people may have come into contact with more than one psychopath (or that they may fill several roles, in which case, it could be described under “other”) and Dr. Forth pointed this out herself in the planning stages of my survey. That is why the instructions ask to choose the most recent one or the last one you have had contact with.
“Stargazer” – I was trying to make the survey so that it could include a wide variety of situations, so that as many people as possible could have a voice. I realize that some may be in crisis at the current moment, and others may not be – and I wanted there to be room for both situations, hence asking about current vs. past involvement in demographics. You could think of the questions in terms of frequency ever since the last contact, and how you are feeling now.
The screen is showing up as scrolling up for me and ‘answers’ are shown on previews for each individual page, so I am not sure what you mean.
Yes, you will be able to see the results of the survey by March 1st, 2009. Send an e-mail (anonymous, no identifiers, account only you can access please) to psurvivorstudy@gmail.com with “want psurvivorstudy results” in subject line, and leave the message empty.
“OxDrover” – You had a similar concern to Stargazer to whom I responded previously. It’s perfectly fine to describe how you felt at the end of the relationship, shortly thereafter, and now as separate situations in open-ended questions. As you pointed out, all of that would be very useful for researchers to know. It is good to hear that you feel that you are a stronger person, and that you are safe.
“kerisee04″ – I attempted to write this survey for people who still had the P in their lives and those who did not, which is difficult to do. I can cross-reference all answers to the current/past involvement in my analyses. Still, your comments about the assumptions of the P being out of your life, more than the first encounter affecting your health, experience of emotional outcome also being connected with your husband’s, and your social support brings up an idea that perhaps I should add a comments section in case people wish to provide any. It will help me to look at the answers more closely to how you have, as well. I will see if I can include a comments section.
The demographics section asks about what your relationship to the P (employer, employee, family member, spouse, significant other, plus an other category, etc.) is, so again, I can cross-reference answers.
Thank you very much for participating and for your insightful comments!
“Glinda” – Choosing a good P scale was hard because the majority of them focus on things like “he/she thinks/feels…”, but the one in my survey had more behavioural aspects. The “don’t know” option was added to the original out of necessity. This brings to mind that there are currently none that are for victims to evaluate – P scales are mainly self-report or professionally administered. This may be very useful so I can make suggestions for future research in this area as well.
I have made comments about timeline in my responses to previous posters here. I am glad to hear that you are in a positive space now!
.
Protecting identity and anonymity is out of requirement (i.e., Ethics) and respect, and not intended to make anyone feel ashamed. I may be the one who starts the research, but I think participants, regardless of amount of answers given, have the real power. It is your experiences after all that will help others.
I really appreciate everyone’s feedback! Technical changes I can deal with fairly quickly. Major changes to questions would be difficult for me to do because what you see in the survey has been approved by my university’s Ethics committee. However, any comments that you have, I hope to put to use in one way or another.
Sincerely,
-M. (pss).
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 10:17am
OxDrover says:
Dear M,
Thank you so much for your response. We are a ‘mouthy’ bunch with lots of questions and opinions. lovefraud blog is a very healing place and those of us who have ‘been here” for a while have benefited greatly from the companionship, support, advice, and knowledge gained from this site. It has been instrumental in my own healing, and others have also stated the same thing many many times.
I am very grateful that people (like you) are researching this situation from any stand point, but especially from the stand point of the victim’s perception of how the relationship impacted them. My life has been filled with psychopaths, my family is primarily made up of psychopaths, and frankly i am not sure how I ended up NOT being one with the genetics in both sides of my family.
Thank you for your time and effort in this survey! We do appreciate it!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 10:42am
newworld view says:
dear m….i had no problems with the survey…could have been more lengthy in my explanations though….i too was not sure if i should answer how i felt immediately afterwards or at the present….i could barely function then, but have learned so much about myself and my role in this nightmare since….i am not sure when all the data is reviewed how exactly to extrapolate the meaning to us….some are fresh, some are yrs out….some responded as to how they feel now and some as to how they felt then…..very different answers i would think tks terri
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 11:37am
Glinda says:
Hi M!
Thanks for the reply. I DID take the “don’t know” option on a few. The questions that asked for observations of their behavior made sense and were easy for me to answer.
I too appreciate what you are doing. Oxy is, as usual, much more eloquent.
Good luck with your survey and results
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 11:44am
kerisee04 says:
Yeah, the questions on how they feel are ambiguous, because we never really know how they feel about things. For instance, my hubby’s ex-wife outwardly said she hates violent movies (for the kids, etc), but she has an impulsive sexual side, and introduces them to strange men and dangerous situations. So you see, what they say and how they actually feel are so completely different compared to the situation they’re in. They are like chameleons. She couldn’t believe it when I said a cuss word once. Then, recently she got upset at a daycare provider and spewed the F-bomb over and over again at her. But to people in the congregation, she acts completely another way.
Not to mention, I think they emulate our standards, not just to manipulate, but also because they have no natural emotions themselves, so they have to show something to people.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 1:12pm
Jen2008 says:
Thank you for the survery. I found it overall very easy to understand and had no problems really with the question/answer process. I liked the blanks that were provided for some of the questions so we could elaborate. I think it is wonderful that focus is being put on victims/survivors and what can be done to help. Thanks again and I look forward to seeing the results of your work.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 3 November 2008 @ 9:26pm
Elizabeth Conley says:
I took the survey, even though it seemed geared for people who had dated or married a Sociopath.
I wish the person/people writing the survey realized that Sociopaths cause trouble in families, churches, ministries and the workplace as well.
It seemed OK, for a survey. Servey’s aren’t always the best way to gain understanding of a complex topic. If the survey doesn’t ask the right questions, then the results are misleading.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 7:39am
Indigoblue says:
Elizabeth
It did ask (us) to relate the suvey to the latest psy/soc (we) where in contact with , did’nt it?
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 8:00am
Elizabeth Conley says:
OxDrover’s post on Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 7:18pm:
“One thing that was a BIT confusing to me was your questions about our moods, etc. It wasn’t clear if the way we ‘felt’ and acted after wards was right after or now that we have had some time to heal. i answered like it effected me at first (and for months and months afterward) but actually NOW, this minute, i am doing well, but it has been a years long healing process, not something that healed over night. ”
I had the same issue. There’s a big difference between how I felt and acted during recovery and how I feel, act and think now.
I once read that the victims of narcissists are often mistakenly seen as having a histrionic personality disorder. This assessment is invalid because after the recovery process, the victim goes back to being his/her strong, happy, reasonable self, only perhaps a bit wiser than before. I think that’s true for victims of sociopaths as well. It is from what I’ve seen anyway.
The before, during, recovering and thriving states are quite distinct.
One more thing:
Once you’ve been there, done that and declined the T-shirt with your first card carrying member of the “drama club” (DSM IV cluster B), you’re a lot harder to distress by subsequent encounters with similar characters.
I walked away from a volunteer position recently because a fellow volunteer was a sociopath whose acting out was escalating. Experience had taught me that it was time to quietly and graciously leave the organization. My old, naive self would have stayed longer, empathized more, felt worse and tried to explain the situation to anyone and everyone I thought would listen. Now I know better. This time I simply walked away with a smile on my face and a song in my heart.
Now I look back on my earlier experiences in organizations and recognize that I’ve seen other people do the same thing, but I hadn’t understood at the time. People who can spot a sociopath and know when to bail have “wicked, crazy people skills” I wish everyone enjoyed. It would be great if education shifted the balance of power against the Sociopaths and toward the rest of us.
The sociopaths are walking among us at work, church, civic organizations, in short – everywhere. Shouldn’t everyone know how to spot ‘em and deal with them?
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 8:41am
Indigoblue says:
I have a psy/soc detecter dog !:)~
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 8:51am
Elizabeth Conley says:
Dogs are brilliant creatures.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 9:02am
Jen2008 says:
Although I am not sure, I assumed that since early in the questionnaire we were asked how long we had been out of the relationship, that the questions related to our feelings/symptoms related to how we are functioning now during the time period out of the relationship, so that is how I responded.
Indigo, I believe dogs actually can sense evil in people. I think they are very intuitive and my dog could always sense a problem arising with my ex P a minute or two before I would realize it. It was as if she could read his vibes or something. I noticed this time and time again–my dog would react (literally go hide between an oversized stuff chair and the wall and begin to shake with this really paranoid look on her face. When that would happen, within minutes, all hell would break loose.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 10:30am
Indigoblue says:
Yes JEN
My cat was the same way ! when he was around the cat was not! LOVE jere
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 11:53am
psurvivorstudy says:
Hi all,
Just a few quick comments (I will be trying my best to respond to all your questions, concerns, comments, etc.!).
Your feedback is always taken into consideration and I try my very best to incorporate changes. For example, Dr. Forth and I have discussed the addition of a “Comments Box” towards the end of the survey today, and we will be passing this idea – inspired by your comments! – by Ethics for approval very, very soon. We feel that it is important as it will allow you to provide input about the survey itself and give us more insight into your answers; which in turn can be looked at in terms of themes for potential future research.
Also, I love reading the comments about animals’ intuition. I may be a “scientific researcher (student)” but as someone owned by three cats and the companion of an extremely intelligent dog who “works” for me, I am a big believer that animals are more tuned in to the events around them than we are…
.
Sincerely,
-M. (pss).
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:52pm
Tood says:
Took the survey…so, so difficult to describe the experience. My ex was not overtly abusive. There were no broken bones, no weapons, no beatings. In fact, I thought I had a normal happy marriage until the bitter end…he was using me as a cook, maid, ATM. But all the while he was raping my children. And he never, not for one moment, admitted any of it.
So I read my answers and it doesn’t seem like I’m even touching the raw truth of what it is like to have everything you KNOW taken away from you in the blink of an eye, in the dropping of a mask.
I could have filled out the survey about my father. Now there was a violent, murderous psychopath! He was easy to identify. He was open in his violence. (As a matter of fact, I had the false belief during the marriage that God had sent me my perfect mate as compensation for having to grow up the way I did, running for my life and dodging punches. Magical thinking.)
I could have filled out the survey about my child, who technically is the most recent I’ve dealt with. I could have told about the times this child tried to get me fired from my job, or arrested for something I didn’t do. I could have told how this child only a few weeks ago committed crimes while staying in my house and tried to get his younger sibling to go along for the ride. I could have told about the times this child tried to kill a sibling–once at age three, when he coaxed his big sister out onto the roof and was just about to push her off when I spotted them from a second-story window; another time by taking a younger sibling out in deep water on an inflatable raft and pushing her off; and another time by going after the oldest sibling with a hammer.
But I chose to fill out the survey about my ex, because of the three I have dealt with, he was the worst, even though his crimes were harder to see. He was smooth and oily and greasy and 100% made up of falsehoods. He targeted me. He worked very, very hard to get me. It took him years. And then he made me believe in love and truth and destiny and everything the movies teach you to hope for. He made me believe that he would be a good father to the troubled child, and that he would protect me from all the evil that is out there in the world.
But he wasn’t. He WAS the evil. He molested and raped my daughters. He stole from my sons. He would have killed me, I believe in my bones, had I not thrown him out when I did. I believe he killed an older relative for money, and I know he killed his own mother for money. When I confronted him about my suspicions, his only reply was a snarled “You can’t prove it.”
And up to almost the last moment, I thought he was a good man. I thought he was my soulmate. How do you put that in a survey? You can’t.
Thanks for the opportunity and the space in which to get a little bit more of the pain out of my system. Thanks for studying us…the victims who get no sympathy from a world which doesn’t understand…because it doesn’t want to look at evil and acknowledge it, the way each of us have been forced to.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 7:07pm
Wini says:
I started to take the survey last night … and then stopped due to how the questions were written.
I found the questions to be out of sequence. What I knew about my EX during the relationship is totally opposite of what I found out about what he really is after the relationship ended.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 8:42pm
Indigoblue says:
survey lady thank you !
My psyco liked pets I say that becuse I took care of them he did not ! He cut the head off one of his own snakes because it bit him when he was feeding it ! this is normal behavior as he knew, he was just off the chain ! he wrote in the snakes blood all over the walls of my house and left the snakes head in a pool of blood in front of my door to my space in the house! And who do you think got to clean this up???????????? hummmm I don’t know the maid Right! I still was hooked for friggin six yrs I was Hooked
No one but these people here can possibly understand this hookedness it’s inconcievable !? They have a power beyond understanding an evil power. they make us feel we are to blame for all their sins and behavior and all the trouble they cause them selves! and they are very very very very very very good at this ! LOVE jere
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Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 9:15pm
Indigoblue says:
Wow Todd
My best friends Name is Todd! he left this reality for the real one a couple of years ago at 40 he is survived by a wife and two sons I miss him but I know he’s smilling at me and happy that I have got it found it what ever you want to cal it I know whats up and now I can do something about it instead of being a victim ! thanks Todd LOVE jere
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Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 9:23pm
Wini says:
Indi: You should have said to him or wrote him a note “MOMMY does live here, clean up your own mess”… which I used to post all over my place of employment … yes, it was me writing these notes in the bathrooms, in the kitchen areas, especially the fridge … sinks … you name it … it was like, hey, did I get hired as your mommy, picking up after you pig pen?
Peace (LOL).
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 10:10pm
Wini says:
That’s mommy doesn’t live here … sorry, typed too fast… and this borrowed computer sucks.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 10:11pm
Indigoblue says:
You think I didnt say your mommy doesnt live here a million times the only thing he learned from mommy was to put the toilet seat down he was good at that ! that has to be a female thing !
~ us men look before we sit 
~ DUUUUUUUUH !:)~
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 10:13pm
brenda1213 says:
i took the survey and passed with flying colors, my ex could be th poster child for sociopath. when i met him 10+ yrs ago he had me convinced he had his own business(with cards and all) loved his family(he actually loathed them and does not speakto them) he actually would leave the house like he was going to work, no money, the customers fault. he had an answer to every question. to this day he still blames everyone from his dog to his brother for why he is in the spot hes in now….down and out. i believe what goes around comes around and his day is near. but i still wil NEVER let my guard down ever!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 10:29pm
Wini says:
Indigoblue: What part of selfish, self centered, self absorbed … of your EX’s personality did you forget about?
I would have turned him into to the Humane society in your area for killing your pet snake, because the pet snake, even though it was bought by him, was shared by both of you … and no animal has to be killed so carelessly and viciously like your EX did in a moment of having an adult temper tantrum and purposely destroying an innocent life of the animal … It is written in Proverbs that man will be judged how he treats the animals … not judged by man, but by God.
And yes, I am a activist for the elderly, children, the infirmed and animal rights. As should we all be in those major areas. The rest of us can take care of ourselves until we too become the elderly or infirmed.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 5:22am
Indigoblue says:
myself
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 5:31am
shattered says:
How do you know for sure your ex is a pyscopath, it’s not as though they volunteer for testing is it?
I’m convinced my daughter’s ex is, but he as never been assessed properly by a pyschiatrist. He did see a pyschiatrist four times and told us he has sorted his problems and was now fine. If only!!!!
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 10:46am
Indigoblue says:
Shattered
The best way is to observe behavior
the words will be the exact opposite of the behavior ! lies
emotional emptyness
Google Robert D. Hare read aftermath;survival after Psycopathy ! If s/he is these traits will all fall into place ! LOVE jere
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 11:02am
kerisee04 says:
Shattered-
There are behaviors that they manifest that follow a pattern of psychopathy/sociopathy/narcissism, etc. I’m sure most of these P’s haven’t been properly diagnosed, but most psychologists don’t want to touch the issue because not only are these people dangerous if you cross them, but there’s not a whole lot of research to go off of yet. They can’t even agree on what to call them. The only thing I can say is that all the people here have common stories. We’ve all been victims of the same attacks. We are all trying to heal from the same wounds. So, title or not, they are the predator, we have been the prey. Now if we join arm in arm, we together can be a bigger, more powerful force than dealing with the predator alone. That’s why we’re here.
Hugs.
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 11:09am
OxDrover says:
Dear Shattered,
Welcome to Love Fraud, it is a healing place.
I suggest tha tyou go back through the archives and read all he articles. It will give you aknowledge base from which to assess what your daughter went through and how they operate on the victims. I also suggest that you refer your daughter here if she is interested. She also needs to learn about the Psychopaths–the “diagnosis” terms are not important the important part is that they are TOXIC PEOPLE, just like a rattle snake is poison, so are the people who are predators on others. Knowledge=Power and learning about them will help both you and your daughter.
She needs your understanding and support for what she has been through. It may take her quite some time to get over it, long after she would have gotten over a “regular” break up. Because they devalue the victim and discard them. It takes a horrific toll on the self esteem and the souls of the victims. ((((hugs)))) for you and your daughter and God bless you both.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 11:32am
shattered says:
Thanks so much for your comments, I’ve studied and researched and know for sure in my heart. I’ve told my daughter about your site and others but she’s unresponsive to anything at the moment, but perhaps if I explain a little some of you may be able to help me, because quite honestly I feel my heart is breaking.
I know what she is going through because I’ve been there myself, and it’s only by finding these sites myself that I can now understand, and it’s like a light coming on. My ex still stalks me 16 years after splitting up. It becomes an obsession trying to figure them out, you know they’re not right but you don’t know why, and you honestly wonder if you could have done something different. Now I eventually realise he will never change and accept responsibility for the hurt that he caused.
I don’t deny it screwed me up, and I thought I was recovered, but it’s only now, that I understand that I would say I am whole again. Well I would be if I could help my daughter.
First of all I would like to explain that my daughters will admit that they were more or less unaware of what went on in my relationship, I managed to protect them from it (my ex knew it was the one boundary he dare not cross)
My daughters situation though is much worse.
My daughter and her two daughters, aged 10 and 14, the eldest from a previous relationship, escaped and came to live with me and my partner two years ago after being with her ex for 13 years. I won’t go into details of her relationship yet, but I will tell you what as caused her to be emotional broken.
Six months after escaping the youngest was effectively kidnapped by her father and kept from us completely for four months. During that time he has completely brainwashed her, and she is totally under his control.
She is a totally different child. She abuses us and does whatever he wants her to do. He uses her in any way he can to abuse my daughter and me (to a lesser degree).
I will not even mention child protection and courts, because they totally disgust me.
Any suggestions as to how I should be handling this, in order to help my daughter and granddaughters would be very much appreciated.
Thank you all in advance.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 1:11pm
brenda1213 says:
to shattered, i can relate to your story. my 12 yr old daughter has been emotionally damaged due to her father and what hes done to me and our family. i tried to get orders of protection for me and my kids but the judge(female, can u believe it) only granted the order to me, he can still talk to them and see them (which thankfully is not often due to his lack of a place to live) she to this day will still protect him and stick up for him, she is in intense therapy right now for extreme anger and ptsd and mood disorder. i pray for the day that she will relize the type of person he is , and how he represents pure violence and intimidation, but until then i am doing my best to protect them and get all the availalbe help i can get thru professionals and resources in my community. best of luck to you and your family. brenda1213
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 1:57pm
Indigoblue says:
Sigfreed & Roy
Theses guys are most probably the foremost Tiger trainers & etertainers in the world !?
well gueess what happened? yup ! Sigfreed gets Attacked +mauled and almost Killed by one of His own TIGERS!
Ok , The Tiger Union was never interviewed or even contacted
The Big Kitty welfare and ETHICS (animal services) was never questioned!
No investigation into alleged Genetic factors , Mommy Tiger or Daddy TIGER or all the Tigers before them!
No investigation into Wether this Tiger was just having a bad day!
Some of the evidence was collected that leads TSI (Tiger scene INnv.) to believe That fowl play is/was involved !
someone was reported to have been eating KFC in the audience ! TSI also stated that Fishy business was detected (Tuna sub rapper) besides just being in Las Vegas!
All the alledged Tigers pointed to the suspect !
All Tigers where born and raised and trained by People!
You can take a TIGER out of the WILD ! You can’t take WILD out of a TIGER!
LOVE jere
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 2:01pm
shattered says:
Thanks Brenda,
We only wish she was here with us to get her the help she needs, but unfortunately that is not the case, we only see her for a few hours a weeks if we are lucky.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 5:00pm
Stargazer says:
IndigoB,
That story about your ex cutting off the snake’s head because it bit him really sends a chill down my spine. It also makes me especially sad because I love snakes. My own snakes have bitten me several times in the past (usually feeding-related mistakes) but a few times with one because he gets nervous being taken out of his cage. I would never dream of hurting them!!!! That is just too horrible for words. I’m so glad he is out of your life, and please do not ever go back to him.
Speaking of snakes, you will all be proud of me. I made a decision NOT to go to the reptile show this weekend. I was planning to go because there is a frozen rat vendor there who can save me some money on snake food. But my ex is likely to be there. He goes to all of them (and he followed me around the last one). I actually could feel Oxy’s skillet boinking me on the head with the message, “Is it really worth saving $15 to risk PTSD?” HELL NO!!!
Thanks to everyone here for helping me stay sane and maintain NC. I’m doing very well with 4 months NC.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:01pm
Indigoblue says:
Star
The reason your snake gets nervous is probably because of the type of cage you have ! Correct me if I am wrong but You probably have a tank , that you go into from the top ???? To the snake , this is threatening comming from above ! If you have clamp closures . you could turn the tank on it’s side , so you go in sideways instead of from the top ! ~~~~~~~~~ Love Jere
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:12pm
Stargazer says:
Thanks, Indigo,
I’ve received much advice about my nervous snake on the reptile site, but who knew the best help would come from LF? I think you may be right. I am planning on buying their permanent (front opening) enclosures as soon as I can afford it. Something like boaphiles. I think they will like them better. Thanks for the great advice.
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:23pm
Indigoblue says:
STAR
another thing is because snakes don’t have eyelids we can’t tell if they are sleeping! My 71/2 foot Boa Gandolf never ever bit except once I startled Him form sleeping ! You probably allready know to feed in a different location and not in their cage ! thats basic! Love jere
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:47pm
blondie says:
i think im still caught up in my fantasy that the x had me believing who he was. has anyone ever been though that? for me regarding relationships i feel like i find myself looking to be with guys like the fantasy i have. it was this good looking guy, who had money, nice car, nice clothes, who had his life together. all kinds of trips and things to do. with my x even though he had those things, they were not his. that car was not in his name. he didt earn that money he scammed people to get that money. he never planned ahead or planned for the future. made promises he never kept. i think what i want is just a dream. before the x, i never wanted a guy like this.
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:47pm
Indigoblue says:
Blondie Please read Aftermath:surviving Psycopathy LOVE jere
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:49pm
Stargazer says:
IndigoB,
You should really join redtailboa.net. You would be able to help a lot of folks over there. I feel bad subjecting the folks here to all the snake talk. They are busy trying to deal with their own “snakes” (sociopaths).
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:51pm
Indigoblue says:
See the Snake has alwasys gotten the bad rap it just aint fair ! OH thats Life isn’t Fair Oh Oh the Psy/Soc Isn’t Fair see I can make anything fit in here
~ LOVE jere
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:56pm
blondie says:
is that a book or a website?
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:57pm
Stargazer says:
It’s true. Sorry to have insulted snakes by comparing them to sociopaths. lol
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:57pm
Indigoblue says:
Naw you did’nt insult them you love them! Star I had a Gaboon Viper she was 1foot when I got her and 5 feet when she died ! LOVE jere
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 9:05pm
Indigoblue says:
Web site Blondie
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 9:05pm
Stargazer says:
You kept hots?????? (That’s venomous snakes for the lay people). Gaboon vipers are some of the deadliest, aren’t they? A guy recently got bit in the face by one. I don’t know if he survived. You certainly like to live on the edge!
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 11:30pm
Indigoblue says:
I had 2 water mocasons 1cainbreak 6copperheads a gaboon and a corn and a garter the garter had 64 babies!
Psy/Soc are not Poisioness because you can eat them !
They are venemous and when you get bit your going to need LOVEFRAUD emergency treatment
~
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Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 11:48pm
Jen2008 says:
Stargazer said: “Sorry to have insulted snakes by comparing them to sociopaths”
I would have agreed with that statement until I came face to face with a snake in my attic. I was about 7 or 8 feet from him and he raised his upper body up from behind a board and just stayed in that position staring at me (or whatever snakes do). I froze for a minute, then slowly backed the several feet back to the attic stairs and got the heck outta there. Gotta get somebody out here to get rid of him. Guess this explains the weird noises I’ve been hearing lately at night coming from the attic. All this snake talk is giving me the creeps–lol. I don’t know which is worse now, sociopaths or snakes. I’m leaning towards snakes.
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 12:00am
Indigoblue says:
Jen the Snake is your friend they eat the rats or mice that make the noise in your atic LOVE jere
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 12:06am
Stargazer says:
Jen,
Of all the luck!!!! I keep hearing stories of people finding snakes in their toilet, in their washing machine, in their back yard, on their front porch………me, I actually go out into the wilderness LOOKING for the little darlings. Ya think I’d find even one? Never happens. I’m curious how a giant snake got into your attic though. He was probably somebody’s pet and probably waiting for you to cuddle with him.
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 12:48am
Unwilling Raconteur says:
I took the survey, and there were a lot of questions that I had to answer “don’t know” to about my sociopath because I honestly don’t know his full history. I mean, he was never sexually violent or intimidating with me, but that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t this way with someone else. I had to go on things that I knew about him, proof positive, such as the arrest that I did know about and an online fraud that he perpetrated once. It made me realize just how much I did not know about the man and probably never will know …
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 1:06am
Stargazer says:
Well, I’m no longer addicted to the sociopath. Now just addicted to the internet. How do you fix that? Do you recommend no contact with the computer?
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 1:16am
Indigoblue says:
Pour water in there where the disc goes in that works every time
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 1:19am
Stargazer says:
IndigoB, I think that’s a form of revenge. It would just instigate the computer even more. I’ll bet it would start smoking and manipulate me into getting a repair person over to fix it. I really think NC is the best.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 1:20am
Jen2008 says:
Stargazer said: I’m curious how a giant snake got into your attic though. He was probably somebody’s pet and probably waiting for you to cuddle with him.
Stargazer, I see this snake has already played “the victim” to you and has you pitying him. I strongly susect this snake is a psychopath and would score high on the Hare checklist. This snake is a predator as he assessed my vulnerabilities then slithered his way into my life as soon as he spotted a weakness in my boundaries such as a hole in my foundation or a vent or a opening around a pipe.
This snakes is is very irresponsible, never notifying me of his comings and goings, partying at night with the rats, and shows a total lack of empathy over keeping me awake at night. He lives a parasitic lifestyle, not contributing a cent towards the house payment or utilites, completely mooching off me, feeling perfectly entitled to eat any food I have around the house and he doesn’t even bother to check if I mind. Not only that, he is sexually promiscous, sometimes forming mating balls where he and several of his male friends all wrap around the female snake prior to sex (the snake version of an orgy). Once he has sex with her, he ditches her and likely never sees her again, but instead hunts up another babe to get it on with. Never mind that he never even bothers to see his offspring.
I also hear he is quite cold blooded, so I think it would be fruitless for me to attempt to cuddle with him. Oh he might mimic affection by curling in my lap, but then he would show his true colors and bite me sooner or later. I feel he is probably very criminally versatile, seeing as how he broke into my home, steals, and I suspect he has poisoned some he has come in contact with when he loses his temper and strikes. I’m sure he plays the victims and implies someone stepped on him or something, but as for me, I am through believing the psychopath. I feel there is no hope for him to change his behavior as I feel it is mostly genetic. After all he is a descendant of that lying, deceiving SNAKE from the Garden of Eden, so what can you expect. I am going proactive this time and I plan to seek justice for his crime. Since it is his first offense (or at least the first one he has been caught at), I will not object to him receiving probation as long as a restraining order is issued against him and he abides by it.
And no I have not been drinking.
Jen2008
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 3:08am
Indigoblue says:
Jen
describ the slithering serpant as best you can from your eve (nieve) point of view ! If you tell me what state or where you live I can probably Identify it with out seeing it!
~LOVE ya! jere
1. It’s in the atic= it is not venomis (harmfull to people)
2. it’s in the atic = it’s a climber= north american serpants that climb are in the rat snake family
3. snakes cannot hear
4.most snakes hunt at night
5. snakes are cold blooded= it’s warmer in your atic than outside!!!!!
6. rodents are also seeking warmth and snakes eat rodents= rodent extermination or control at no cost to you!!!!
7. snakes make no noise= stealth is there tactic
8. snakes don’t need light to see or hunt =smell+ taste the air!
9. EVERY light fixture! EVERY ceiling fan! EVERY Air vent! IS a doorway INTO JENS ROOM!
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 6:10am
Wini says:
Does anyone remember reading the story about the young women who went on Spring vacation down in Mexico a few years back?
Well, she partied with all her friends for the week they were out of school …having a great ole time … remember those days?
They found a lost dog … a little white Chi-hua-hua.
She took the little dog every where she went that Spring break… All the kids she met, they all loved that little dog. The dog became their mascot … it went everywhere the kids went. When they went to eat, she made sure the little pup ate… everyone kissed the little dog … every time they saw it. They taught him tricks .. how to sit, come, stay … do flips .. the dog loved to please.
Every night when the young women and her friends went to their motel room, they argued who was going to cuddle with the puppy that night. He was in his glory … all the kids loved him and he loved all the kids. The puppy was so proud … the roomies gave him a nice pink bow … the puppy wore the bow proudly.
Spring break was over and they were driving back over the border to the states. The young woman hid the puppy in her baggy sweatshirt … even though the sun was shining brightly.
None of the guards gave the girls a second thought about them wearing short and T-shirts and here sat the young woman with a baggy sweatshirt. The girls just flirted with the border patrol … and they were passed through with flying colors.
The young woman brought her puppy into the country and walked it each and every day. Everyone in her apartment building loved the little puppy, and the puppy loved them.
Then months latter, the little puppy wasn’t feeling well. The young woman immediately rushed her little pal to the Vets.
The Vet was out when she arrived in the emergency room, so she had to leave the little puppy with the assistants and come back in a few hours after the Vet returned to his clinic.
Worried, the young woman leaned over and kissed her puppy, petted him and told him it would be OK that the Vet would cure him and she would be right by his side.
The assistants took the little dog in the back room to wait for the Vet to return.
The woman decided to run some errands and she’d be back in those few hours to be by her pal.
The young woman ran her errands and returned to the Vets clinic. The Vet came into the waiting room with a flustered look across his face. The young woman swallowed hard and said ‘What is it doctor, what’s wrong with my little puppy’?
The Vet didn’t know how to tell her except to just tell her like it was …
The young woman didn’t want to hear what the Vet was about to say … she sank slowly into her chair.
The Vet said, there is no way to say this than to just come out with it … so here it is… your puppy isn’t sick and it … isn’t a puppy.
The girl couldn’t believe her ears … what was the Vet trying to tell her?
Your new Chi-hua-hua isn’t a dog at all …. your puppy is a RAT.
Moral of the story, even RATS need love.
Peace … true story.
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 7:02am
maniatissa says:
Henry: Thank you so much…I have decided that I am going to limit my interactions with those who aren’t supportive…I wish that there was an in-person LF group…
I am really thankful I found this site…
I was looking at one of Tood’s posts and thinking about something that I spoke about with my counselor, which also has to do with my friend’s attitude about “you should have seen it coming…I did”…I think we still live in a society that blames the victim. I almost said to my friend that if she was so upset about what happened then why doesn’t she give my ex-P a call? Is it because no one wants to confront the perpetrator? Can they not be held accountable? Is it just easier to blame the object of the abuse?
Just some thoughts…
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 1:20pm
henry says:
maniatissa You are welcome – more thot’s on the :friends:….I have some friends (a few very good friends) that told me after the fact – when they first met MyX – they knew he wasn’t right for me – one said – he was just different – they were happy for me of course that I had finally met someone – and my son who lives close by was involved in my dramatic relationship. At one point my son confronted me – asking what is going on Dad you look like chit….and I would try too explain the anxiety and depression – my son offered to kick (his) ass – but then guess what? I would take him back and beg him too understand – my son was confused wit me!!! But now 8 months no contact – I am not the least bit curious (well maybe a little) about where he is or what is goin on. Knowing he has so many issue’s – it is best for me to avoid him. I no longer have the need to try to make him understand how I feel or how I felt. Cause any sign of compassion I gave him would be just the chance he needed to fuck with my mind again. It’s like the movie ALIEN the first one was enuff I dont need to watch the sequel – there is no way we will ever understand them, but understanding that they are really really really ….really fucked up alien’s – and there is is is is something wrong with them.. maniatissa – its gonna hurt for awhile but in time you will see just what I mean….thank your lucky starz he is gone…..
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 3:05pm
OxDrover says:
Wini–ROTFLMAO, GREAT analogy!!!!
Maniatissa, it is a shame that the “blame the victim” thing is a fact, but in many cases it is, and believe me, I have done in the past my own arrogant “blaming of the victim” too—I couldn’t see why a woman wold go back and back to a man who beat her, I WOULD NEVER DO SUCH A THING—(feeling of superiority here) but you know what, my SON was abusing me and guess what, I would go BACK AND BACK AND BACK. LOL Now I realize that abuse is abuse is abuse, and it doesn’t matter if it is physical, mental, verbal, or emotional, anyone who stands for ANY kind of abuse is being abused. None of us are any better or worse than the others in the abuse we allowed (though some abuse may injure more or less) but we are all human, and for one reason or another, we allowed the abuse to continue more than once. “Chit on me once, shame on you, Chit on me twice, SHAME ON ME.” Sometimes in our pain we even chit back at them—Henry microwaved his X’s phone! LOL and I have done things worse, just not as funny! LOL ROTFLMAO!!! (sorry Henry–welllll, not really sorry!) (head hanging in pseudo shame) LOL
I’ve had people tell me how “bad” I am because I won’t have any contact with my abusive mother, “She IS YOUR MOTHER AFTER ALL” Like that gives her some pass to abuse me, almost get me killed. Or “how could you give up on your P-son, HE IS YOUR SON AFTER ALL” Like that gives him a pass to try to kill me. They also devalue my pain, my emotions etc. and try to say “well, it really can’t be THAT bad” Or just a plain “get over it.”
That hurts of course, at least at first, but I have learned to VALIDATE MYSELF and it doesn’t matter what ANYONE else thinks—I KNOW. The validation I got here at LF when I was in such pain though, was so VALUABLE to me, until I could get the strength to validate myself. SUPPORT is wonderful when you are down and out. I’m so glad that LF is here for me and for everyone else too.
A real llife support group would be wonderful, why don’t you start one in your area? Put a small add in one of your local papers, or put up some posters and get a booth or two at a local eatery, or rent the back room of one, or get a church there to give you a place to meet. PUt your cell phone number on the poster, and see if you can get a group started. I think that we all should do that and spread the word. You can print off some of the LF articles and hand them out and discuss them with the people who show up.
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 4:58pm
burnedbuns says:
HELP PLEASE:
I need someone of unassailable credibillity in the study of psychopathy / sociopathy to conduct a brief study and issue a short report. I believe it’s a very interesting case study of a female sociopath – not much research has gone into that area. The report could be conducted remotely, but a face to face discussion would help significantly. I’m in British Columbia, Canada. Any recommendations or referrals would be greatly appreciated. I think Dr. Hare in Vancouver would be ideal, but I don’t know if he provides this service. It is an interesting and somewhat unique set of circumstances that I think might interest a researcher.
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 8:10pm
OxDrover says:
Dear burnedbuns,
I suggest that you contact Dr. Hare at his web site. Good luck.
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Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 8:21pm
Indigoblue says:
Burnedbuns
Dr Hare’s site says he does’nt do that but ya never know? It’s worth asking!
we need to change your name!
How about Perfecttoast ! LOVE jere
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Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 12:02am
OxDrover says:
If you haven’t taken this survey, please complete it, it only takes a few minutes! Thanks!
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Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 12:39pm
Jen2008 says:
A few minutes!!!! lol Oxy, it took me well over an hour, but then there was all those text boxes to elaborate in on certain questions, which I did. I never talk about my P in real life, just the occasional blog here. Those little text boxes were just far too tempting for me.
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Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 1:22pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Jen,
I think that’s great! We want (at least I sure do) to help these folks with their survey so we can have a VOICE in telling what these Ps do to us!
I don’t think the victim impact has been researched enough (if any) or enough stuff given to the “powers that be” like judges etc. to let the see just what a HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE being a victim is. If this survey turns out well, then we can hope that this can be used in courts and counseling etc. to help victims and to also get JUSTICE for the Ps in courts of law.!!! TOWANDA!!!!!
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Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 3:55pm
Trinity says:
I finished the survey. I am interested to see the results.
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Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:41pm
psurvivorstudy says:
“burnedbuns” – I am familiar with many of the researchers in the field of psychopathy, so perhaps I can be of help with my recommendation of Dr. Katherine Ramsland (http://www.katherineramsland.com/). She is doing exactly what you hope someone would do with your own unique circumstances (case studies), in collaboration with Dr. Robert Hare. She has written many books in the field of forensic psychology and is a professor of the aforementioned field in Pennsylvania.
Sincerely,
M. (pss).
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Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 8:56am
psurvivorstudy says:
“Unwilling Raconteur” – People will answer differently depending on what they do and don’t know, and even if you answer don’t know to a few, or a lot, that is still helpful information – we can get a chance to see what kind of information you do know in order to create a scale that survivors can use to assess for the potential of psychopathy. Most psychopathy scales are self-report or professionally administered, although there are a few for observers.
-M. (pss).
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Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 9:08am
Indigoblue says:
psurvivorstudy
The Brain scans like PET and The one Donna Mentions in Her Artical are these accurate? or is it like a lie detector can a brain scan be fooled ? My Cat cannot be fooled
Love jere
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Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 9:11am
OxDrover says:
Hey, guys, especially you new folks, take this survey, let’s don’t let it get off the “radar” screen and folks forget about it. It doesn’t take long and we need to ALL get our 2 cents in on this one. Oxy
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Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 6:57pm
Iwonder says:
I did mine last week.
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Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 7:42pm
Indigoblue says:
This is Good so I thought I would bring it up front
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Tuesday, 23 December 2008 @ 5:43am
Indigoblue says:
I was curious as to wether our researcher was still reaserching
~ Or Did She GorGot 
~ LOVE JJ
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Tuesday, 6 January 2009 @ 8:13am
Jen2008 says:
Yes, you will be able to see the results of the survey by March 1st, 2009. Send an e-mail (anonymous, no identifiers, account only you can access please) to psurvivorstudy@gmail.com with “want psurvivorstudy results” in subject line, and leave the message empty……..
Has anyone received an email with the results of this survey yet?
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Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 9:14pm
OxDrover says:
Jen, Not that I know of unless it went into my spam box and got deleted. Maybe we should send another e mail.
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Sunday, 29 March 2009 @ 11:02pm
rwheaton says:
PLEASE have them add another category for “within 3 months”. Most of my answers fell in the “within 6 months” but ALL were within 3 months. Public education is KEY to public awareness more than any title\label because Hollywood has shaped our identity of what a psychopath is. Maybe Hollywood could help in the ‘education’ part.
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Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 10:04am
OxDrover says:
Dear R wheaton,
This thread were you posted is from an old survey done for another reason, the one you are talking about now is the one that runs to March 15th and the results will be submitted to the comments for the DSM V (the new diagnositic manual for psychiatrists).
In the past the term Psychopath, sociopath, anti-social personality disorder and several other terms were confused, even by researchers.
The current survey was put together by Donna Anderson, sort of “following” the variious proposals of what we (former victms) experienced with each of these indicators of the behavior of the “psychopaths” we have had experience with.
At the end of Donna’s survey, she will forward it to the committee which is determining the DSM V criteria for “officially” diagnosing what we know as “psychopathy” or “sociopathy”—in the past the professionals couldn’t even agree on a name.
Since “psychopath and sociopath” have both sort of been in the PUBLIC’s eye been seen as words denoting a serial killer type person, and fortunately, only a few of them are serial killers, most do their devestation in more quiet and secret ways, but their devestation is almost as overwhelming to their victims, whose “souls and minds” are serially “killed” instead of their bodies.
I agree that PUBLIC EDUCATION is the key, but the subject is so complex and the psychopaths (my chosen word) are sometimes so subtle it is difficutl to detect them until you start to BLEED either emotionally, financially, or physically.
Glad you are here, thanks for posting!
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Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 12:55pm
sherry winter says:
I work for the government. For the last year I have seen educational classes available to my co-workers about domestic violence, stalking, and sexual harassment. Very few people choose to go to them. The managers and lead workers are required to go to them… AND YET!
My manager had the training and refuses to see, that my lead worker was both stalking his employees, and if he hadn’t been such a good liar, he would have been hit with a zillion sexual harassment claims!
But as it is, he lies so good, all of his victims, except me, are closed mouth thinking they need to protect him because he’s done no wrong. Because he lies so well, all of his victims willingly took part is sexual activities. Because he lies so well my manager and his still believes that I must have imagined the whole episode.
According to DAS, the agency in charge of all the state’s HR departments, he can xyz every woman on his team. Unless they tell him NO, and he doesn’t quit, it’s no one’s business, and he hasn’t broken a single rule.
According to DAS, his manager could be fired for even asking him if he was dating any of the women he manages. Yet they let him have input into promotions, and allow him to help pick women for positions. He can use anything to make his choices including his libido, and as long as he can come up with a reasonable argument any one who questions his intentions can get fired for asking personal questions. Because he’s NOT management, it’s no one’s business and he has the power to control the lives of the women who work with him. He is not required to be accountable to the women he works with, or his managers, because it’s his personal life, even if he’s kissing them in the work elevator, or setting them up for a fall. If he promotes someone because he wants to go to bed with them, or if he holds someone back from a promotion because he doesn’t want them in the limelight where his lies might become visible, doesn’t matter… according to the big wigs in the state HR system, he can do anything he wants with any one he wants, as long as they can not prove he continued, after they asked him to stop.
According to DAS, he can give the virus that causes cancer to every single woman in our office, even if there was a test that could prove he was a carrier, “how convenient that men can’t be positively tested,” and as long as he is killing these women on his time, with their permission, it’s none of their business. In fact he went as far as to say, if they TRIED to stop him, they would end up in court, and the STATE WOULD LOSE!
And yet, if I have to go back to that office, and I warn any one of the potential dangers, both emotionally or physically, I could be fired! Right now as I post this I have 34 more days until I will be forced to go back or quit my job.
It is educated people who said this to me. They also let me know, that they can not call someone a sociopath or allow them to be called a sociopath, unless they have been tested and proven to be so. They let me know, they have no rights to ask him to be tested. They said even using the work could cost the state millions in a law suit that they would LOSE.
So their answer? Fire the victims if they cause too much noise, because their disruptive cry for help, and be proven to upset the work place, and the poor sociopath is just doing his job, and what he does to the lives of those he works with after hours, is none of their business.
Life sucks and then you die. At least that is the way it seems when you are trapped in an eternal loop with a sociopath that you can’t get out of your life.
Educate people? The emotional trauma caused by seemingly well meaning people who point out that “all he did was lie to me, big deal,” or who remind me, “no one tied your hands,” is almost as bad as the trauma from the sociopath.
Educate all you want, but all the people that I worked so hard to make him look good to, now are telling me it’s none of their business. I have in my efforts to protect and promote him have not only put myself in a place where I may get fired, but I have had to drop out of Amaranth because I was the one who talked my mentor into picking him as her Grand Royal Patron.
He will be the top man in the whole state for an organization of WOMEN. He will have victims falling over themselves to catch the “good one”. All because I believed in him, and because all of those I have tried to teach about psychopathy, would rather stay on his good side, and look the other way. I wonder how many women he will kill in Amaranth with his undeclared disease? No one can prove it, and every two years, every one seems to forget about the cries of “cad” from the previous victims.
People don’t want to know… Not even really those of us who have been victims. I would rather that I had never found out, how low someone you thought you loved could be.
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Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 7:28pm
autisticsouls says:
Shelly Winter,
welcome. this is an issue too, workplace psychopaths.. not only do they effect people involved in them but many do work and have careers and then the rest of us are faced with them. we also deal with the face of denial and disbelief in the workplace too.
i felt/feel very impotent with my situation but i think little by little the more folks get burned some leeway will occur eventually.
as long as i do my part even if it means my future in this arena is uncertain because of the rampant corrumption going on.
anyhow even fed up folks won’t dare to mention the world sociopath/psychopath or ASPD..
Pleased to meet you
Mike
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Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 9:15pm
autisticsouls says:
oops sorry,
i see it’s sherry winter, not shelly. cool visual though. winter and sherry. cherry snow. sorry i’m autistic i get a lot of visual input with certain things.
Mike
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Thursday, 25 February 2010 @ 9:18pm
greenfern says:
Hi,
I hope I did not offend anyone with my last post, is there are reason why it was removed?
I am just curious, so that I do not make the same mistake. Thanks!
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Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 11:49am
sherry winter says:
Don’t worry Mike, don’t worry about the type-o’s and such. When we post here, I know for my part, I’m usually emotionally upset. When you are like that, who cares about proper English or anything else!
I’m just so tired of the bad guys winning, and GOOD people CHOOSING to look the other way because they don’t want to know. They say it’s none of their business, and that it’s just between you and the sociopath. However, even when you can give them a long list of names the sociopath has taken advantage of, they still don’t want to listen. They would feel totally different if it was THEIR daughters, wives, sisters, or even themselves that was told by their doctor they had a 50/50 chance of living because someone had given them cervical cancer and knew he was a carrier!
I’m angry at the world and at myself. I’m angry that I let my life be ruined by this monster. I’m angry that I wasn’t strong enough to pull out when I started seeing the signs. I’m angry that the other women who he’s used and abused refuse to speak up. I’m angry for all the people I had thought were my friends telly me I’m just a woman scorned and that he’s a nice person. I’m angry for every one who would rather stick their head in the sand then to find out the ugly truth… even if knowing it could save lives. I’m angry that the bad guys always seem to win, and only the good die young.
I’m sick of losing, and paying for what this monster has done, and yet he is still officially my “boss” in that he’s the only lead worker in the unit I work for, and soon my rotational job will end, and I will have the option of going back and going crazy again… quiting before that happens… or finding someone who can give me a sociopath pill so I can NOT CARE how many women I see him abuse.
All of my life, I have forgotten the traumatic events and found it hard to recall even when I want to. I to this date have difficulty remembering when my mother died, even though I held her hand until it was cold. I have always forgotten the bad, it was the only good thing I got from having a bad memory. However the events of the last 3 yrs with the sociopath are etched in my memory like they were yesterday.
I actually have c-ptsd… and have flashbacks, nightmares, and panic attacks, and have since about 3 months into the relationship. I have been going to counceling, and I’ve been on meds for sleep and stress for a long time. I’ve gained 30 lbs from the stress, gone from perfect skin to constant stress acne, and even lost 2/3 of my hair at one point from the stress. I have aged 10 yrs in the last 3 yrs, because of the stress hormones in my brain that control the aging process.
All this, and I was targeted because I was in a happy marriage and the sociopath was jealous of someone who was actually happy! Not that he needed a reason, but he has shown a remarkable desire to take other men’s wives, and to get involved with those who would NEVER pick him. It’s a part of the GAME… the harder to catch, the harder he tries… Cat’s are interested in sleeping mice, but one that attracts their attention!!!!!
I’m just tired. I wish I could take a pill to make me forget about the last 20 yrs of my life, both when I was happy “because I don’t think I will ever have that again,” and when I was reduced to a victim by someone I trusted. I have remarried, and I like my husband… even love him, but my love, and trust are not what they once were… there are very little emotions attached to any of it. There is no joy in my life any more… I lost so much, and I feel forced to watch the person who took them from me, to be honored while he continues to rack up victims.
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Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 12:04pm
Donna Andersen says:
Greenfern
No posts have been removed. Maybe it’s on another thread?
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Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 12:13pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Donna,
Since the karma message showed up on top of the blog I have to refresh every time I log in or edit a message.
I get a blank page when I log in, and the edit feature says it is ’saving’, but doesn’t progress from there.
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Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 12:17pm
autisticsouls says:
Sherry we have a principal who was sexually harrasing and stalking female workers. after so much complaints against him and a lawsuit the only thing that happened to him was that he was reassigned to another school, that’s IT!!!!
and of course I expect he will continue to do what he has been doing because why the heck not? if all he gets is a slap on the hand? the damage left behind are females employees forced out of their jobs for making a rucus in what is best described as mobbing. read “white chalk crimes” to see what is happening in our public school system.
i myself have to continue to work with psychopaths, too. although some have gotten arrested for just taking stupidly crazy risks and being arrogant thinking they weren’t going to upset parents or other teachers enough to do anything about it since we’re all roaches to them anyway they just didn’t think that pushing folks too hard will actually blow up in their faces, so now they are on our newspaper headlines and we’re like hoping something good will come of all this scandal.
i hope so anyway. i still beleive in intelligent design, maybe i’m naive or just hopeful.
Mike (back to work lunch is now over. there are some good people here, Sherry, i hope you get to meet them and share and be able to regroup and heal from everything you have gone through..)
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Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 12:45pm
sherry winter says:
he was talked to… that was all. 2 yrs of lying to our boss about our relationship…. caught red handed with another…
He lied straight faced to the counselor when his wife caught him fooling around before I really got to know him. She printed out 5 yrs of receipts from his vacations with his secret mistress in Florida. Sitting with the bills right in his lap the counselor asked him to please stop lying about his affair.
If he had balls enough to lie when documentation of 5 yrs of infidelity were sitting in someone’s lap, why the heck would a talking to bother him?
He was on an interview panel this week. I don’t know WHAT those idiots are thinking putting a sociopath that has a proven record of ulterior motives for his employees on a friggen interview panel! THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS!
I know there are good people in the world. I think maybe my new husband may be one, LOL… though he has a lazy streak the size of texas. What I have decided though, is I can’t tell the good from the bad, so I simply decide to believe no one any more. I may say I do, I may act like I do, but bottom line I don’t. And as far as an intelligent design, that was stolen from me, when I gave up my life for a jerk thinking god wanted to use me to make the world a better place.
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Friday, 26 February 2010 @ 7:09pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Sherry,
I am so sorry that you are having so much in the way of pain after even all this long time. ((((Sherry))))) and I know that PTSD is no fun, and all the signs and symptoms (my biggie is no short term memory and word finding difficulty) and so on are so troublesome. Sometimes it seems it will NEVER end, but I think we must keep on trucking! We mustn’t give up. Sure, there are times it seems like lthe jerks always win, and people that we WISH to goodness would GET IT don’t, and they seem to “trivalize” our TRUTHS and we want to SCREAM!!! OPEN YOUR EYES, IDIOT, why can’t you SEE?
I have been there, and I imagine I will BE there again from time to time, but I don’t like being there, I don’t like feeling like that, so I keep on working and trying my best not to give up, to trust those that EARN it, and to keep my sanity about myself—to see the differences between honest Mistakes and deliberate dishonesty. I can over look the first, but NEVER the latter.
Hang in there, Sherry! You are in good company here! Keep coming here, without this place I think I would have “lost it” a long time ago and never have found it again! (((hugs))) and my prayers for your peace!
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Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 12:28am
autisticsouls says:
Sherry you got hit from all angles, the workplace where you were targeted and then where you became involved, you had no real place to escape.
in the workplace i think it’s harder because only the obvious signs of harassment and stalking is recognized.
my ex psychopath friend (i had no idea) singled out a stressed out married mother of two. after seven years the marriage was going through some normal strains from the new baby and all. she was vulnerable and fatigued and things were a little stressed. i offered up my nurse to care for the kids so they could spend some quality time together. because when things get strained sometimes there is a risk of good people reaching the breaking point.
my ex friend however targeted her in a way where he targeted her weaknesses and played up on it. i could see what he was doing and couldn’t do anything about it. because it wasn’t within the illegal parameters to do what he was doing. it wasn’t right, though. there were plenty of single people about why go after a married vulnerble one going through some trouble?
His interference broke them up and only then did he dump her on top of everything else she was going through. again nothing is ever his fault even though he did all he can to manipulate the situation and lie to her and paint a scenario that her husband was at fault for everything as he continued to build up a chasm between them.
Toying with people in this manner is not ‘illegal’ though. and when it comes to sociopathy and psychopathy or ASPD, whatever you want to call the cancer affecting all levels of society it isn’t disscussed, it isn’t mentioned, and there can be no real resolution to the problem with this continued state of denial we are living in..
people do all kinds of things to each other most times in moments of weakness, uncooperation or disagreements, and the regular stuff people do unwittingly, but it’s hard to fathom why someone would single others out for destruction simply as a pastime to do so. We never expect that kind of behavior for no real reason. it’s unfathomable and others make you feel as if it’s partially one’s fault because it’s just too hard to believe that someone would do this for no valid reason other than to just play with people. Who destroys lives for fun?
But it is happening, in relationships, in the media, in our sitcoms and movies, (that makes it all okay)in the workplace, in daily business interactions. one guy just got arrested recently for loan modification fraud. just a passerby could get pulled in without knowing… and yes we do lose our innocence and become wary of the world. when you get struck, you start looking for them everywhere. everyone becomes suspect. a sense of paranoia could sink in and WE end up looking crazy. and it gets all helpless and hopeless feeling when no one else seems to listen to what we are saying or others want to just keep shush and forget about things because they in a sense feel like it’s their fault too.
The damage is so pervasive but real.
and in that aspect i do share your frustration with how things currently are in regards to this disease.
but i am praying for a wake up call. the disease is too widespread that we can as a society continues to keep ignoring the issue.
i nearly feel we are in stage one of cancer where society is just hoping the ’signs’ are all in our heads and it will all go away.. I hope that we don’t, as a society, reach stage four of the disease when it’s too late to do anything about it because we’ll be a world of where you are either a predator or a victim… and the victims left too traumatized to do anything about them ruling everything and feeding off us all. sometimes i almost feel we are there already but i don’t think so quite yet.
For now we have to hang in there, take time to heal, talk (to people who will listen), and not feel crazy, support each other and do what we can until the rest of the world wakes up…
Mike
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Saturday, 27 February 2010 @ 12:28pm