Exploiters seek partners who dread to displease them
PDF It is no accident that narcissistic and sociopathic personalities will seek, and often successfully attract, partners who have their own issue: a tendency to dread the idea of disappointing or displeasing them.
This is admittedly a generality, but it’s a pattern I’ve observed in my clinical experience, and it makes sense. The exploiter, who regards others as existing principally to satisfy his or her wants on a continual basis, must by definition find in a mate someone who is highly motivated—and especially, highly afraid not—to satisfy him or her.
Thus one often finds the pairing of an exploiter complemented by a partner who is prone, perhaps compulsively, to look inward to himself or herself as the cause of the exploiter’s dissatisfaction.
Clinically the goal is to encourage the over-accountable, overresponsible partner to examine this aspect of himself or herself. This is necessary given the fair assumption that sociopaths and narcissists are unlikely to genuinely reform their characteristically manipulative, selfish ways.
I’m often surprised in my work by the tenacious investment exploited partners make in solving the needs and complaints of their self-centered mates. Of course they’ll never succeed, but as long as they continue owning the exploiter’s blame for the latters’ discontent, they can keep trying, keep striving to be a better mate—to become, finally, the good-enough mate the exploiter has claimed to deserve all along.
Let us emphasize the futility of this scenario—the exploiter really doesn’t want a satisfying or, for that matter, even a perfect, partner; rather what he or she wants is a partner who, in his or her insecurity, will continue to accept on some level blame for the exploiter’s unending, habitual exploitation.
The exploiter, in other words, is looking much less for the perfect partner than the perfect scapegoat. For this reason the sociopath and many narcissists will recruit these qualities in a partner—qualities, for instance, of high self-doubt, high guilt, high fear of incurring others’ wrath or displeasure, and a strong tendency to self-blame.
Moreover individuals possessing these qualities will tend to be drawn to individuals who seem to be their counterpart in many ways—for instance confident, self-assured, powerful-seeming, unself-doubting, and perhaps unself-reflective. They may harbor the fantasy that the latters’ seeming strength and confidently entitled attitudes may prove a salutary complement to their self-questioning, self-doubting natures.
And this is certainly possible—this complementarity can theoretically work—in situations uncomplicated by sociopathy or narcissistic personality.
But when the more confident partner is a sociopath, or narcissist, this complementarity of personalities becomes a set-up. The less confident partner, whose tendency is to self-destructively accept the exploiter’s blame for the latter’s rages, discontent, abuse and general misery, becomes the perfect foil, the perfect dupe, for the sociopathic or narcissistic partner, who has it made, so to speak.
Again and again I encounter wonderful, thoughtful, emotionally generous individuals who are trapped less by their exploitative partners than the intolerable idea of themselves as failed mates. The result is their often intensified efforts to be found satisfactory by, and to obtain validation from, the exploiter.
The exploiter is, of course, incapable of appreciating his or her partner’s devotion. But even if not, he or she would intentionally withhold such recognition anyway; his or her object, remember, rather than to uplift his or her partner, is calculatingly the opposite—to engender hopelessness and depression in him or her.
On and on the cycle goes, until the vulnerable partner, just as the exploiter has sought, finally feels so low, incompetent and disempowered that he or she can’t seriously imagine a different future.
By now a form of despair has set in—the despair of expecting to be found just as wanting in future relationships as the present. Dangerous resignation follows this hopelessness—again, exactly the outcome the exploiter wants.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2008 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
DancingWarrior says:
ErinB,
You mean Skype? What’s CRS?
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kim frederick says:
Dancing, CRS is a serious condition that many of us suffer with. It stands for, “can’t remember s$%t. In Oxy’s case though, it should be CRC. As Oxy doesn’t forget s$%t, but Chit.
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OxDrover says:
Warrior,
CRS=”I can’t remember chit”
I do agree that he is using your daughter to try to get to you. The article about the family communication program is here on LF. Good luck.
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kim frederick says:
See, I told ya.
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OxDrover says:
Smartie Alaic! BOINK! Gott’ya kim!
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kim frederick says:
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ErinBrock says:
Warrior:
NO…it’s an online program called “Our Family Wizzard”.
It’s used for ‘difficult communication’ persons….It’s a way of documentinng and communicating, it’s court recommended.
I haven’t used it personally….but it is hightly recommended.
There is an article with info on it on LF.
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DancingWarrior says:
Today he leaves a message–”I hate to do this to you, but would you please call me I think I’m having a nervous breakdown. I know it’s not your problem and you caould call your attorney and shut me down, but would you PLEASE call me”
I was going to file taxes married, jointly. I feel stuck about having any communication.
Do I send him a certified letter not to call or I’ll take other measures?
Do I tell lawyer to make him stop?
ErinB thanks for the Our Family Wizard suggestion. I just don’t know if I want to talk to him about anything–it’s just too stressful.
And thanks to all for the translation of the obscure and technical jargon, CRS–I could use some laughs!
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ErinBrock says:
Since you ‘share’ a child…you’ll be required to communicate on some level. If you set up our family wizard…NOW…this would help you later…
As far as his messages….ignore them….he’ll up it up as time goes on….you ain’t heard the last of his ‘medical ‘ conditions…..Next he’ll be sure he has terminal ailments…
Whether this is true or not….You can’t caretake him during the divorce….it’ll play on ya too much!
I think you can handle this on your own, not sure the attorney can do anythign….he’s dramatic….
I’d just keep ignoring the calls. That’s it….eventualllllly….he’ll get it.
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DancingWarrior says:
ErinB,
Good idea to ignore them. Any knee jerk reaction would just give him the attention he damands.
I took him for endoscopy in Nov–he called at midnight that he needed to go to the emergency and sounded like he was dying, but I didn’t hear the message till the next day and somehow he lived!
I’ll go get the family wizard. ARRGHHH I feel so icky from his calling.
Thanks Erin.
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DancingWarrior says:
I am feeling upset, angry, frustrated. I went to therapy bec. I couldn’t DEAL with his convoluted , manipulative, bullying mind. I wanted real proof of things changing. We saw three therapists: a woman, whom he hated bec. she challenged him, a different woman he ran after 2 visiss bec. she was conflict oriented therapist, then the man who used to be his indiv. ther. and he was bad bec. he called H’s father an “a***ole”
HE wanted to end tharpy as he couldn’t wouldn’t do any more work.
I flet devastated bec. finally the truth was here, and I had to acdept the loss. I avoided divorce as long as I could.
Felt terrified driving to lawyer’s to get it going. Now that the divorce is in process, he won’t let me go.
I do really feel such a terrible grief and am like a zombie each day, lonely, frightened, lost. But I am willing to go through the pain, and then move on. But I can’t even feel what I feel as he is like a horse fly after me and annoying me constantly.
The worst of it is that I actually SECOND GUESS my decison with his taunting me.
That’s my freaked out self talking. The reasonable self –tell him you’ll talk to him about taxes only. Tell him to get Family Wizard for child communication. Tell him you won’t respond about other things. Step it up with lawyer if he goes beyond emails. i.e. phone calls.
Please humor my need to ven about his last coupldof days emails:
1)Sunday he wrote:
I really know how hard all this is for you. Daughter cancelled a couple of appointments with me and today she said she can’t go to b/f’s. It’s good that you want to meet him. I met him and he seems like a sweet boy. Do you think we can keep some direct line of communication open? I think it would help us in our divorce, raise D. and how we relate. I sincerely understand how difficult all this is. Please understand that.
THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT THIS–I feel angry at his selfishness:
**translation**
“HOW HARD THIS IS FOR YOU… BUT i DON’T GIVE A DAMN BEC. WHO CARES WHAT YOU FEEL, i AM MORE IMPORTANT. DAUGHTER BLAH BLAH BLAH I SOUND SENSITIVE AND CARING DAD. PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT I WANT FROM YOU AND THAT YOU ARE THERE ONLY TO FILL MY NEEDS. DON’T YOU GET THAT YET?”
2)MOnday he wrote:
This is all true (referring to the do not call email i sent him); but I have never felt worse , have you? so maybe it is the wrong decision? I am sorry too but I am in love with you and respect you and want to save our family and I need your help. Please talk to me and try to help me understand and love you and, if it doesn’t work, I will understand that we have no choice. Your H.
THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT THIS–still angry at his control:
**translation**
“I FEEL TERRIBLE AND THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS SO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. NOW!! YOU ARE A DUMB SUCKER SO I’LL SAY THE CODE WORD THAT’LL HYPNOTIZE YOU–I LOVE YOU–HELP ME UNDERSTAND YOU BLAH BLAH BLAH ARE YOU SPELLBOUND YET? I WILL UNDERSTAND “WE” HAVE NO CHOICE TILL i’LL GET IT THRU YOUR DUMB HEAD THAT YOU’LL NEVER GET RID OF ME. NEVER, SO DON’T EVEN TRY.
3) Tuesday he wrote:
You deserve better than our last session at Therapist’s. Please allow me to talk with you.
THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT THIS–I feel like I live in a different universe! Last session at therpist’s HE said he couldn’t do anymore work, all sessions he was jerking me around, attacking therapist, inventing things to be angry at me about
**translation**
YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN OUR LAST SESSION–I CAN DO A BETTER ACTING PERFORMANCE NEXT TIME, YOU’LL SEE. I CAN PRETEND REALLY WELL TO BE A CARING SENSITIVE HUSBAND WHO CAN LISTEN. I’LL EVEN PRACTICE IN FRONT OF THE MIRROR BEFORE EVERY SESSION. HONEST. PLEASE ALLOW ME IN SO I CAN GET UNDER YOUR SKIN AND ALL WILL BE WELL AS BEFORE WHEN I CAN HAVE YOU UNDER MY COMPLETE CONTROL. C’MON. YOU KNOW THAT’S THE BEST FOR ME!!
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ErinBrock says:
Warrior.
He’s a needy clingon…..maybe it would be better to NOT read his emails for a while….
your D is teenage…..so it’s not pertinent currently.
You’ve traslated his emails welll……
But, I don’t want you to fucus on HIM or his words…..
And besides….he’s gonna have a heart attack soon, or a mental breakdown, or a terminal illenss…so what he says is redundnat anyways ;
Stay strong….your in it for the long haul…..
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DancingWarrior says:
ErinBrock,
What if he doesn’t respond to lawyer till next court date with family masters?
Can he drag me through this endlessly?
Should I just file my own taxes separately? Forget him? Or try to get him to send me his paperwork?
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witsend says:
DancingWarrior,
You really are doing so WELL. You just need to see this in yourself and validate yourself for being so “right on”.
You answered your own question. Your quote: The worst of it is that I actually SECOND GUESS my decison with his taunting me.
Thats ALL he is after….He wants you to second guess EVERYTHING. And he wants to keep you off balance.
That’s his game, taunting. Keep seeing through him and you will do just fine.
Don’t be sucked in by his guilt trip. The writting is on the wall (in his emails).
You can do this
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DancingWarrior says:
Witsend,
Thank you. And that’s why I feel angry, feel something is wrong, but my poor mind is so confused and stressed, that I wonder which was is UP!
This article about exploiters says what you say:
“The exploiter is, of course, incapable of appreciating his or her partner’s devotion. But even if not, he or she would intentionally withhold such recognition anyway; his or her object, remember, rather than to uplift his or her partner, is calculatingly the opposite—to engender hopelessness and depression in him or her.”
His object is to engender hopelessness and depression and weakness in me. That’s why each time he prefaces his calls with “I hate to do this, but” or “I know how hard this is for you, BUT” or”This is all true, but” and so on–these phrases so anger me.
Please hear this dream I had:
I was with some unknown friends, but turns out I needed to have a sudden ob-gyn exam and as the doctor examines me in the personal way–what seems to be my husband, is lying right there underneath me during the exam–totally weird. And the dr. leaves but leaves the instrument in, and then the husband is leaning his horrible weight on my hip, and I keep telling him to GET OFF ME, but he is heavy and won’t go. Then I pull my strength and scream out GET OFF ME when I woke in that nonverbal middle of the night scream that goes “AAAHHHH!”
thanks witsend.
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ErinBrock says:
Warrior…
I’m goinmg to move this conversation to another thread….look for my answer there….
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Deceived says:
Reading this is an AH HA moment for me. No matter how much I loved, how much I gave, how much I forgave and how much I conceded it was NEVER enough. I was never good enough. Pleasing him and making him happy became a full time job all by itself.
At the back of my mind I have wondered what it is that everyone who is here on Lovefraud have in common. I do not believe that everyone who is here have low self-esteem issues . But reading this blog by Steve may have answered my question. The overriding need to please our partner.
I never thought that was a bad thing. After all, when you love someone you do everything in your power to make them happy AND keep them happy. But I learned that so much giving can be so easily used aginst you too and work against you. It seems like people who are on LF are here becuase of the inability to set proper boundaries in their relationsips. I know I am such a people pleaser to my own detriment. But I have always equated love with making sacrifices for the ones you love. So my question is how do you know where to draw the line? When does too much giving become a bad thing? Now I’m confused.
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Deceived,
Good post! I agree that we all don’t have a low self esteem before spath. In my case, I was promised so much that I became an “spath pleaser” in order to satisfy the idiot, only to find out that I had been deceived and the promises I was told were not true and were never going to be able to materialize because he is an spath. As much as he may have wanted to in his little “fantasy mentality” be my Prince Charmimg, his lack of ability of truely being so, it wasn’t going to happen. To sum it up, I think we think that if we are perfect we will get what we were promised!!! LOLOLOL WRONG!!!! We have boundaries, we are convinced to expand them…. in the name of love! We are chasing the pipe dream we are promised. It’s almost like a dog waiting for his treats after following a command and never receiving the treat and the dog tries again(without being given a command, becuase he wants the treat so bad) for the treat with a different trick you have taught him and on and on and on. No matter what the dog does…he will never get the treat…… the TREAT is not really in your pocket and you have fooled the dog. THE DOG HAS BEEN TRICKED/DECEIVED!!! Like we have been!! The treat is not really there! Quit doing tricks and jumping backwards through hoops was my answer.
soimnotthecrazee1 !!!!
Thanks for letting me vent!
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Donna Andersen says:
Deceived,
The answer is that a good relationship involves both giving and receiving. If the relationship is unbalanced – with you doing all the giving and the other person all the receiving – it is not healthy..
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Deceived, I think this a question we all struggle with. Giving so much has landed most of us in hot water – time and again.
I think we have to evaluate this giving/receiving paradigm. I am a very giving person – and now that my ability to trust is so ruptured and i am walling people out as my boundaries are so messed up, I see my impulse to give is disconnected from my feelings. They will come back together at some point.
I walked up to a stranger on the street today – she was wearing a backpack and looking at a map – i offered to help. last week a young guy on a bike asked me if i knew where the youth shelter was. I stood well back from him and as i was giving him my answer i was evaluating him, and the danger level. There was some – don’t know what it was, but i was ready to sprint. My ability to sus people out – well, i don’t trust it these days – i am highly suspicious of people. of everyone. even people i know.
i think we have to take a close look at what being giving has meant to us – look at literature on compassion in buddhism, look at the book the betrayal bond, look at work on codependency and addiction (ACOA or Al Anon)…read and think, and see where it takes you.
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Deceived says:
Thanks Donna. I agree. But I guess this can only apply if you are in a relationship with someone who is emotionally/psychologically healthy?
Because I have found that the lines got blurry when I was with the ex. I felt compelled to work so hard to please him and concede to him just to save the relationship. I had to keep proving myself and my worth that I was worthy of his love. I have never ever reacted this way or been this way with any other man until I met this person. I don’t know what it was or what caused me to behave this way but with him I was fearful of displeasing him not out of fear of being abused physically because he never abused me physically.
Until now I don’t understand what it was about him that made me so fearful and so consumed in pleasing him and meeting his expectations – no matter what they were. He never threatened me physically and yet with him I had to “perform” and jump through hoops for him and for the relationship.
What would cause someone to behave so differently and endure so much for this one person when they were never that way in their past relationships? It still doesn’t make sense and as a result I have learned to keep men at bay and I have closed myself off from any other possible relationships. How do I know I won’t behave that way again? I have become fearful of letting other men get close to me again.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear deceived,
This may sound crazy, but I am an animal trainer (among other things) and INTERMITTENT REWARD is what is used to train animals to do “tricks” or behaviors.
If a rat pushes a lever and gets a food pellet EVERY time he pushes the lever and then 2-3-4 times go by and he gets NO pellet, he will quit pushing it and give up.
However, if the rat gets a pellet every other time, or randomly every 2-4 times he pushes the lever, even when he has not had a pellet in 1000 times he will keep on pushing it thinking “this NEXT TIME IS A PELLET FOR SURE.”
That is the same principle on how a SLOT MACHINE works and why people keep putting money into them.
The psychopaths INTERMITTENTLY REWARD us with an “atta girl” for “pleasing” them, but then when we DON’T get a reward we “pound on the lever” over and over thinking NEXT TIME I WILL GET THE REWARD…
I use this when training animals to do tricks and they are ever so hopeful of getting a reward that even though they may not have had a “treat” or food reward in YEARS they are still hopeful and will continue the behavior.
Humans are animals and we are suceptable to the same systems of behaviors vs rewards and reinforcement that any other animal/mammal is.
There is also the “trauma bond” that people can be bonded with, google “Stockholm Syndrome” in which release of pain is used to train people (or animals) The bit in a horse’s mouth causes a small amount of pain, and when we put pressure on the reins and cause that pain, the animal’s REWARD is that when he turns and goes in the direction we want, we RELEASE THE PAIN as his reward. That is a sort of trauma bond.
If you do what I want you to, I will stop hurting you. There is a good book here in the Lovefraud bookstore about Trauma Bonds.
I hope that gives you some idea of where to start looking for possible information about why you reacted the way you did with THIS man and not others. Keep digging, it takes time to find the answers we seek and if we keep on turning over stones we will find those answers eventually! (((hugs))))
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Deceived says:
Oxy, thank you for illustration. Do you think these people are aware that they are doing that to us or is it possible that they are unaware that they are doing this? Sometimes it is hard for me to say I was abused when he never was physically abusive to me. He cheated on me repeatedly and lied to me but truth is I would not leave him and kept staying with him no matter what he did. Because he kept saying he loves me and he will never do it again. I wonder sometimes if I was abused when I was the one who chose to continue to stay with him regardless of his misdeeds. Was I really abused? When I try to make sense of what happened, what he did and how I responded many times I just end up even more confused.
Do you know if there has ever been a study of people who ended up on love fraud who ended up getting hooked by another abuser when they got into a relationship again ? That thought terrifies me.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear deceived,
YEP!!! Many of “us” get into MULTIPLE SERIAL abusive relationships, that is why it is SO IMPORTANT to learn what it is about OURSELVES that makes us potentially vulnerable as victims of these people.
Do they know? My answer to that is yes and know. Do they know it is called operant conditioning and B F SKINNER wrote about it? Nah, probably not, but they know what WORKS.
“Abuse” is how you define it. Is abuse ONLY physical violence? I don’t think so. To me abuse of TRUST is ABUSE and is emotional RAPE (use of our emotions without our informed consent.)
Yes, we “stay” even after they hurt us, we stay because they SAY “I love you” or “I’m Sorry” but the truth is that they are lying and WE are choosing to believe their lies—over and over again because it is TOO PAINFUL to face the truth….that they do NOT love us and that they are not trustworthy.
Our reaction is called DENIAL. Denial is a normal and natural response to a LOSS SO HUGE WE CAN’T ACCEPT IT IN ONE SWALLOW. So we nibble at it but DENY it is completely true.
For example, if I told you that you had to EAT an ENTIRE COW you would say “I CAN NEVER DO THAT” but actually in your life time you have probably already eaten SEVERAL COWS if you are a meat eater at all….ONE BITE AT A TIME.
I was trained from childhood that my opinion didn’t matter, that I had to be PERFECT in order to count, and since I never could get to be perfect I wasn’t OK. I was also trained that I had to FORGIVE (pretend that it didn’t happen) when someone else did something bad to me or others—and I had to do that or the PENALTY WAS HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM A VENGEFUL GOD.
Set me up for becoming a “people pleaser” and to put others before my self to the point of self abuse, and self neglect.
So, when the psychopaths happened along, even my own P-son, I couldn’t give up the MALIGNANT HOPE that they would “repent and get better” and stop hurting me. I stayed in DENIAL, “Oh, it isn’t all that bad, they are really sorry” over and over and over….and blamed myself if someone was angry/abusive at/to me, rather than put the responsibility where it squarely should have been ON THEIR BAD BEHAVIOR, I kept trying to find ways that I COULD FIX THE PROBLEM.
Well, I can’t fix their bad behavior no matter how hard I try. I can only change my RESPONSE to it.
NOW I choose to not have anything to do with DISHONEST and abusive people in my close intimate circle of friends/family/trust.
Sure I have a psychopathic neighbor but I stay away from him as much as I can…which is pretty close to NC. I live on the same farm with my egg donor, but I am NC except occasional business e mails confined to BUSINESS only. I have very little contact with my biological son C since almost a year ago he LIED TO ME. He sent me an e mail asking me a medical question the other day and I answered him, but he is NO longer an intimate part of my life, because I realize I can’t trust him to be truthful with me, and it wasn’t just the ONE lie he told that made me exclude him from my intimate circle of trust, but the one lie was the FROSTING on the “cake” of the thousand other previous lies he had told me that I had “forgiven” or “overlooked” or accepted a half arsed “apology” for…but he KNEW WHEN HE TOLD THIS LAST ONE, that the BOUNDARY was there, that there would be NO MORE OVERLOOKING ANY LIES OR DISHONESTY.
A philosopher (cant remember who) said “It isn’t that you lied to me that is the problem, it is that I can now no longer believe what you say.” (or words to that effect)
I do not want or need in my life ANYONE who is dishonest or lies (we are talking about adults here now) and there are no second changes for those who lie as far as I am concerned now.
I expect that people treat me as well as I treat them. I expect that people treat me with respect and kindness. I no longer give people a chance to treat me with disrespect or rudeness a second time either.
Recently my best friend was passing through this area (she lives in another state) and her sister was with her, and they spent the night here….the sister is a “drama queen” and while she was here she had her little dog with her. The dog pooped on my back deck, she didn’t clean it up, the dog chewed up and scattered a paper food bowl out there too, she didn’t pick that up either. She left the light on and the fan going and the bedroom she slept in a mess.
Nothing BIG mind you, but just “not good manners” to say the least. Just this sense of entitlement I guess you could say that someone else could clean up behind her and her dog.
I didn’t say anything about that to her or to my best friend, but it will NEVER AGAIN BE CONVENIENT for that woman to stay in my house over night again. She mentioned when she left here that she intended to come back up here and ride my horse sometime in the future. Not ASKING if she could but INFORMING ME of her intention.
Well, to start with, I do NOT LOAN MY HORSE OUT to anyone any more than I would loan out my toothbrush or other intimate personal equipment and if I DID, it would NOT be to her! LOL
I understand your terror at thinking you might get involved with another one of the psychopaths. I HAVE HAD THAT TERROR. However, I realized that the terror came from my LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN MYSELF TO KEEP ME SAFE, so now, I am REGAINING that confidence in MYSELF, learning to trust ME again.
It takes time, so give it time. Too many times I see people who have had a run in with a psychopath JUMPING RIGHT BACK INTO A NEW RELATIONSHIP in an effort to make themselves feel better and it SEEMS TO ME that more times than not, they pick another psychopath because they didn’t really LEARN what the RED FLAGS are. The signs that you are dealing with a psychopath.
GIVE yourself TIME to heal. Don’t be in a hurry to get into another relationship. Set boundaries for people in your intimate circle of friends and relationships.
Matt, one of our posters here set the TION list.
They must have an educa-TION
Transpor-TATION, habita-TION, etc etc. and eliminate all people who are DIS-honest, liars, ex convicts, druggies, etc. Not that there are NO reformed addicts or convicts but WHY TAKE A CHANCE? What’s the odds? Most “ex” convicts are STILL DISHONEST. Why have someone who is dishonest in your life? Not any good reason I can see.
Give yourself time, and learn to trust yourself again, it isn’t easy but as you take baby steps in that direction it will get easier.
Right now you are gob-smacked and not sure what truck ran over you, and that’s okay…it WILL GET BETTER. Knowledge is power, so get all the knowledge you can! (((hugs))))
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tobehappy says:
Deceived…I was a sociopath magnet. I’ve gotten involved with a bunch of good looking, charming, lying sociopaths in my life. I read The Betrayal Bond and learned why.
The key is to work on your self esteem and get tough and strong.
I always KNEW they were lying and yet I gave them chances over and over….
I have to go out..will write later.
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Deceived says:
Finally I found people who understand me and is listening to me. I felt so alone for 2 years until I found LF. This is all new to me. I have never been involved with someone like the ex who was such a liar, cheater and consumate manipulator so this is all new to me. The sickening behavior of the man I was with and your ex’s treatment of you is bewildering to me and none of this makes sense to me. a Oxy and Tobehappy – thank you so much. I am learning so much from all of you. And as you all share your own stories, I am encouraged and strengthened. I thought I was all alone. You women inspire me. I thought I was all alone and I am shocked to learn that there are so many others out there who have been treated so horribly like me. It is SHOCKING to know that there are so many of us with such similar experiences. I had no idea. It had been a lonely road to travel. No one seemed to understand what I was going through and why I found the lies, betrayal and manipulation so devastating. I have been told by others to just get over it and move on. If I could just get over it, don’t they think I would have done that already? But I want to…I NEED TO understand what happened to me, why I was treated this way, why I allowed it and why he thought it was okay to treat me that way. For the first time I have found people who don’t tell me to just suck it up, get over it and move on. I am getting feedback from people who also felt the same hurt, anger, betryal and outrage at what was done to them too. I am glad I found this group here at LF. I feel like finally someone understand me and is listening to me. Thank you all.
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jazzy129 says:
Dear Decieved, Welcome! I know where you are coming from. I had no idea what a sociopath was until I was fooled, slandered, and stalked by the ex-spath. I thought he was my FRIEND! I don’t even remember how I found Lovefraud, but it has been such a blessing.
It was NOT your fault! Just because you were targeted by a spath I’ll bet you are just a darling sweetheart. We all have had bittersweet endings to love affairs…but NOT the betrayals like this! They are CRAZY, evil nasty people.
So glad you are here! I post in dribs and drabs, but I often come here to read and get strength and validation for my horror and anger at what has happened to me.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Deceived,
When I came here to LF and realized I was NOT alone, there were other smart, educated, strong women who had also been hood winked and who were having difficulty “just moving on”—It was such a BLESSING to realize I was NOT ALONE.
I wasn’t in the company of a bunch of “losers” I was in the company of a group of SUCCESSFUL women (and men) who had been beaten to the ground by EVIL DOERS without consciences.
I knew instinctively that there was a common theme of why we stayed, just like there was a common theme of why they do what they do.
No, we are not identical people, and they are not identical, but there are similarities between each of us (former victims) and the way they, the ABUSERS, are similar to each other.
We can draw on those similarities to help each other, to reach out a hand in understanding and compassion…Donna has given us a great venue here to do just that. I am glad you are here as well, because by reaching out to each other, we reinforce our own healing and growth. It is a process, and not one easily or quickly accomplished but DON’T BE IMPATIENT WITH YOURSELF, cut yourself some slack and start out just being kind to yourself. Take care of yourself. Put yourself first. The healing will come.
LEARN LEARN LEARN, about them, and about yourself. (((Hugs))) and My prayers for your healing!
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dancingnancies says:
“But when the more confident partner is a sociopath, or narcissist, this complementarity of personalities becomes a set-up. The less confident partner, whose tendency is to self-destructively accept the exploiter’s blame for the latter’s rages, discontent, abuse and general misery, becomes the perfect foil, the perfect dupe, for the sociopathic or narcissistic partner, who has it made, so to speak.”
I’m slightly at odds with the terminology here. Forgive me for being nitpicky- lol that’s not my intention. What i mean though is because I think this is often a misconception, that sociopaths prey on unconfident people, not that you implied that here, but I also wanted to add that the sociopath’s so called “confidence” is pathological confidence, and as such I don’t believe can be construed or viewed as true confidence. ( And as such, can’t necessarily be interpreted as “greater” than the healthy individual’s ) I don’t think for instance, masturbating to a false image of yourself is confidence.. but anyway there’s a lot of nuances of pathology that can exactly be expressed in the most correct of words, can only be hinted at or kind of given to analogy.
But people with high empathy ( as per the usual victims of sociopaths ) are also given to caring about others, you might say more than your average person- or at least more willing to make efforts, and so thus more willing to go to lengths to make that person happy. Even if those lengths are extraordinary ( which is unfortunate ) . I don’t think that high empathy tends to mix in with low confidence. But given, once you care about someone ( empathy ), of course you are going to be more susceptible to self-doubt when exposed to a pathological persona… “What am I doing wrong?” .. so I think for the most part saying that sociopaths prey on less confident people primarily is incorrect ( again not saying you made the implication because you haven’t. Someone who believes in their right of way and is absolutely not given to any disagreement- that might be interpreted as confidence. And surely, will foster self-doubt if this type of individual became intertwined with an empathetic one ). I do think they look for vulnerable people ( if you have PTSD or anxiety you would be vulnerable ) and people that generally have an innocent worldview. Like you said in another article they are cowards because they take advantage of a healthy inclination in other people ( the desire for a relationship )
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dancingnancies says:
And just to add- the idea that S/N/Ps prey on unconfident people is a huge misconception. I think this is addressed in Women Who Love Psychopaths though so..
( In the aftermath of the Psychopath, you see a frail, “weak” woman, who has been subject to much mental and emotional torture, and researchers erroneously interpret this as their having been unconfident… well of course they would because they didn’t know these women BEFORE the psychopath had entered into their lives! That’s why so many people refer to S/N/Ps as vampires.. because S/N/P’s attempt to bleed the vital, healthy, vibrant, gregarious energy out of their victims… to leave a hollow shell that doesn’t even know what hit it, so the S/N/Ps can merrily and without second thought move onto their next victim )
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skylar says:
nancy,
interesting article. The part that stood out for me most was, “they can keep trying, keep striving to be a better mate—”. That’s what I did.
But I always knew I was a better person than he was. and he KNEW that I knew. It made him hate me all the more. The reason I kept striving to be a better mate to him, was for me. Knowing that I was the “adult” in the relationshit, I took responsiblitiy for making it and him and me, better. Not knowing the depths of his disorder, I thought I could carry the burden of keeping us emotionally and financially afloat. Really didn’t mind, I wanted to make “us” happy, and knew he was not capable of doing his share of the work but, just like I did my sister’s homework, even in college, I took on this extra burden.
So what you said, Nancy, is true. I had an EXCESS of confidence in my abilities. In the end, he cut me down to size. I was willing but not able. Oh well, at least now I have more humility.
The thing about P’s is that you have to follow the 180 rule. Whatever they say, or represent, it is 180 degrees to the truth. Everything is backward with them, like a mirror image, it is the reverse of the truth. They appear confident, but they are just a shallow lie. We appear unconfident, but it’s because we have taken on more than we can handle. They project their evil on to us and slander us. the 180 rule. remember it because you can count on it.
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lesson learned says:
OMG…..this is so completely right on…..
I see myself completely with my Spath. I thought he was GOD”S GIFT in the beginning, that he had something to offer that was so special and outstanding…..and he chose ME. He KNEW that and fed off of it and I fed off his approval of me. That was in the beginning…but when the abuse started three months in, in a way that was completely devastating (is three months the magical marker or WHAT), I automatically assumed it was me. I had no idea what I’d done wrong. I had no idea I was being set up and that it had nothing to do with me at all. I just couldn’t figure out why my little God was so unhappy with me…
I wanted his love and acceptance because I loved him dearly. He knew that……………
Wow, he knew that….and it was that very thing that kept me sucking up and trying to please him…and i remember GREAT fear in displeasing him!!
UGH
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Lesson,
I think this lesson is one of the top “hardest” lessons learned while recovering from an spath. Because we live in denial and keep trying and trying and trying to please a person that can NOT be pleased and will NOT allow you to please them. They love their web of misery and want us tucked in it with them.
Soimnotthecrazee1!
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Denise Guiney says:
If the X is demonstrably and substantially ill (and this is usually I gather from drinking too much for too long) then it is hard to deny them medical help this was my major downfall and it happened to me twice. I’m a bit programmed to help the disabled. However i did not try too hard to please in other ways, and very quickly got sick of the drama and endless demands and opted out But man has he held on like a limpet. Saying he had weeks, months at most a year to live, Filling my house with his essential papers mixed with a truck load of newspapers, to try to block eviction, trying to move in his girlfriends and a brother even now he’s been moved on still leaving a truck load of stuff behind and continuing to have mail addressed to my home. They are cocky when they have your adoration, when they have lost it, and they know they have lost it and you will not even attempt to be pleasing, then they resort to infantile and obvious means of harrassment and attracting attention. In the back of your mind you probably fear this final stage of stalking, blocking, stonewalling, or whatever form the end game takes, plus the effort of surgically removing them from your life and this is another reason for trying to please and trying to repair.
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GoingThroughTheMotions says:
Skylar,
you just described the dozen years I spent with my spath perfectly, echoing my thoughts about being the adult, and working to make us better, and knowing that I was more capable, and knowing that he knew it too, and thinking somehow, that if I kept loving and supporting and celebrating him, he would move past that outer confidence to a place where he could find his inner confidence, and realize that I was not a threat, but an ally. Silly me, little did I know his failure to reciprocate, his failure to support me, his tendency to withold praise or assistance, or throw spanners in the works did not stem from a lack of confidence hidden by bravado. But really, I couldn’t see how it could be anything else at the time – I simply couldn’t imagine that he acted that way on purpose – I rationalized that if he acted like that, there must be a reason, and it must be from a place of hurt, not a place of rage and jealousy…Silly Rabbit, Trix are for Kids. LOL!
And Dancing, thanks for your post – as Skylar mentioned, I had previously had a decent level of confidence in myself, while also being a pleaser. And while I may not have been the most gregarious in the group, I don’t think your average person perceives me to be particularly lacking in confidence. But, I realize a tendency to embarrassed by attention, and a tendency to be be self-deprecating, and I think a spath would hone in on that, and play on it, and be attracted to someone who would get the job done, and happily share the limelight, and even stand just outside its glow. Perhaps it is not just an obvious lack of confidence these predators look for, but perhaps a combination of capability, that exists in conjunction with some other innate or situational vulnerability – such as my previous experiences with a narc father and subsequent “pleaser” behaviours, or the death of my mother shortly after our introduction….
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candy says:
Denise – He drank, he knew the consequences, he had a choice. He chose to drink and the consequence of that was that he was ‘substantially’ ill. His problem, he had the solution.
The mail keeps coming for a while. I just had a phone call from him from a car company, I just say he no longer lives here. He took out a couple of car insurances in this address so I rang the companies and let them know the score.
I like your phrase ‘surgically removing them’
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skylar says:
Going through the motions
funny thing about that post is that I only vaguely remember writing it and although it is true, what I wrote, I had forgotten those feelings and that lesson. I can see that I’m starting to slip back into that old habit of taking on more than my share of the burden. There’s nothing like seeing your own words Telling you what you need to know and remember.
Another interesting thing about this article Is that steve said the psycho is not looking for the perfect mate, he’s looking for the perfect scapegoat. That is what is wrong with all of us. we were brought up to the scapegoats. and we are more than happy to shoulder more responsibility than is actually ours. isn’t that the literal definition of a scapegoat?
my god, the aha! moments just keep coming and coming.
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Claudia says:
Sky, that’s so true! Every time I pushed the envelope to please my psychopath, after a brief few hours or days of glee, he demanded more boundary violations. Same thing with his wife, who bent over backwards, exercised like a race horse for 4 hours or more a day, left her job, moved to another state to set up a second house: all of these sacrifices and efforts just to please him. Ultimately all her efforts are in vain since he emotionally abuses her anyway. They love seeing their victims jump through hurdles because it shows them their power over us. How did you manage to resist 25 years of jumping over hurdles for him? You must have conserved your energy some of the time, otherwise the psychopath would have sucked all the life out of you.
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True-to-Self says:
I found this article and BINGO. This is exactly my problem. I have been going around and around with my mother the last few weeks to the point of almost being depressed. I was starting to believe she was starting to take some of the blame or at least understanding how she set me up for abuse by her constant criticism, but no, I was feeling guilty today and wanting to apologize to her.
I always wanted to please my dad. I believe now that when she would say things like “Your father thinks, or your father is not happy with… such and such that it was she who was not happy and was just using my need to please.
When she remarried, I was 50. She tried that crap on me with my new step dad. He was painting the inside of my house after my husband left. Yes, he was doing me a favor, but one day I told my mother that I just needed a break and wanted one day to myself. She said “Do you want me to tell XXXX that? I said YES. Why should I want to please him? Her manipulation and mind games run very deep.
I am starting to see now how I tend to fill in the gaps and explain away bad behavior in men, or brush away red flags. I want to be helpful. I want to please them. Even when I KNEW that my boyfriend was a sociopath, I felt more nervous canceling the 4th of July Weekend, not because I was afraid, but because I didn’t want to displease him. When he hung up on me on Christmas Eve, when my husband left and hung up on me almost every time I called him…….When my mother insinuates that I am interrupting their dinner, or Jeopardy, or I ALWAYS call at the wrong time, I put up with the damn abuse and kept going back for more. Why the rejection? They were rejecting me because they couldn’t use me anymore, not because there was anything wrong with me. How is my mother using me? She isn’t now, but she did when my dad died and I had to babysit her. Now that she doesn’t need me anymore I am in the way.
I don’t need to fix it, I never did. I don’t even need to apologize to my mother for making her feel bad. (I wish I could really believe that) The part about my mother.
True-to-Self
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True-to-Self says:
More…..the article talks about spaths and narcs sometimes just need a scapegoat. I believe I successfully learned to quit taking the blame for BF’s and husbands, but I sure make a good scapegoat for my mother.
The thing I finally stood up to her about was that I am tired of being the butt of the joke. She may or may not realize that she is doing it. She asked me why I was bringing this up after all of these years, and don’t blame her for my bad marriage. I actually told her that I did blame her for setting me up for abuse because I was used to criticism. I have walked on eggshells for years trying to please her. It is very sad that now that she is old I feel like I am picking on her. The truth is, I really am tired of being picked on.
TTS
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skylar says:
yeah, me too.
my dad started crying last time I saw him. This from the macho “head of the family” who once told me that the only god I needed was him.
Mom on the other hand, just sits there looking somber. no emotion except when she started to talk about a soap opera and how in the story, the young man finds out where his mother was buried. His mother had died in child birth and he finally finds out where, but the grave marker is gone and he starts to kiss the dirt. Then he feels his mother’s caress and love. So my mom was telling me this and she starts crying.
WTF? Is this a spath thing?
My uncle, several years ago, was also relating the story of a soap opera he watched and he started crying. This from the man who cheated on his wife to torment her into cancer and death. He did it to her face. And he treated me like shit when I was young too. He was supposed to pick us up after school but if I was late coming out of the classroom, he would make me run behind the car to catch up.
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Hope to heal says:
TTS – QUOTE: I was used to criticism. I have walked on eggshells for years trying to please her. It is very sad that now that she is old I feel like I am picking on her. The truth is, I really am tired of being picked on. << your words really struck a chord with me, like a blast from the past!
Oh my, these words, almost exactly have come out of my mouth SO many times. My husband, who rarely says anything negative about anyone, has commented on the way my mother treats me.
I too, was there for her when my dad was sick and dying. Taking time off from my job to drive them to Dad's appointments with the Oncologist, then of course, to the infusion lab.
I have made comments to her at times with regard to the way she is always so critical of me. Nothing I do is ever quite good enough. Although, I'm always the one she calls upon when she needs help with anything. Even though her darling son lives right next door to her, and I live over 300 miles away.
I remember one Christmas… actually, I'll never forget it. She had bought a pair of re-tread snow tires for me, and a king-sized water-bed for my 13 year old brother. Gee, do you suppose there was a bit of favoritism there?
That was the most blatant example when we were kids. There have been many more throughout the years since we've been adults.
The scars are still quite raw sometimes. Although, most of the time, I'm able to live in the present and not dwell on the past hurt.
I guess that all we can do is try to remember that we are not the unworthy or unloved people that they make us feel we are. They probably don't even realize what they do. Too self-absorbed, I think. (((hugs)))
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Hope2Heal,
My egg donor plays the “poooor little sweet old lady who is mistreated and abandoned by her only child”"”"”boooo hooooo booo hooooo wahhhhhhh Oh, pity her!!!! (excuse me while I PUKE!)
Well, just because they are old and/or infirm doesn’t make them suddenly SAINTLY….just pathetic. My egg donor canceled my power of attorney and told her doctor that I could not see her medical records though for years I had either BEEN her medical care provider or I had supervised her care and been to every medical visit for 10 yrs, was her “live in nurse” driver and maid for nearly 18 months when my step dad was sick (I did it for him because I loved him) but I also did it for her out of a sense of duty that I am her only child. But you know something?
When she canceled my ABILITY to care for her (canceling the power of attorney) she also CANCELED MY RESPONSIBILITY to do so. So SHE SHOT HERSELF IN THE FOOT AND I AM NO LONGER OBLIGATED TO TAKE CARE OF HER. I am sure she thought I would beg her to get the POA back and the medical oversight, in fact she called me some times and tried to tell me about her latest doctor’s visit. I simply told her I no longer needed to know about this as I had no permission to know it any longer.
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skylar says:
Yes Oxy,
that’s what I’m trying to say: they cry for themselves, they’ll cry for a character on tv, but the scapegoat never gets any tears. We are seen as able to shoulder the responsibility. We are stronger and bigger and should just let everyone else’s blame ride on our shoulders.
This is such a crock. I won’t do it anymore.
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Hope to heal says:
Dear Oxy ~ your egg donor actually sounds very much like the lady that was my mother’s best friend for 30+ years. Only had one child, a son, who sat very high on the pedestal where she raised him to be. She was one of those women that treated all males as if they were royalty, and all females, with the exception of my mother, as if they were the servants.
I am very glad that your egg donor removed the legal obligation from you. It would not be a good thing to have the responsibility of POA for someone who has treated you so poorly. Talk about FREEDOM!!
It amazes me, the chit these people will try to pull to keep us under their control!! You are an incredibly strong woman. I wanna be like you when I grow up!! (I’m just shy of 51, not sure I’m ever going to grow up)
All kidding aside, I really admire your strength and very much appreciate your insight. You are truly inspiring! I’ve been spending at least a couple of hours reading here each day. I am gaining strength and with that a feeling of calm. In the past week, I have slept much better than I had in the previous 6 months!
THANK YOU to everyone for sharing stories and insight. I wish that I could remember all the names… Oxy, Star, Sky… and many more… believe me, I appreciate you ALL!!!
(((hugs)))
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Hope to heal says:
Sky ~ I so hear you!! I have also been the one expected to shoulder the blame and been held responsible for the mistakes and /or misdeeds of others. From my mother, to some of my in-laws. Thankfully not MIL & FIL, they are great.
I WILL NOT DO IT ANYMORE!! Song lyrics just popped into my head:
“We’re not gonna take it! No, we ain’t gonna take it! We’re not gonna take it anymore!!” (from a song written by D Snider of Twisted Sister)
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Hoope2,
Thank you very much….don’t “feel” strong sometimes, but we are ALL stronger than we even realize ourselves….
Yea, the egg donor (I think) did not realize that she would end up alone. She couldn’t control me so she devalued and discarded me in favor of the Trojan Horse and my son C’s P-wife to be here slaves, but then when they got arrested—she wanted to come back to me and have me “get back on board” but I refused. She literally told me “let’s just pretend none of htis happened and start over.” NOPE!!!!! NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
But I also realized that my OBLIGATION as her only child to care for her was CANCELED when she made it impossible for me to legally do so. My cousin had taken on the “responsibility” of her POA and I refused to take it back. She did it to “punish” me and as a sign of “no confidence” but I would not PRETEND it didn’t happen. I had no authority, and without authority you have no obligation….she did it, but it “back fired” on her when the psychopaths turned out to not be trustworthy. Oh, well…that is the consequence of her choice. It was a load off my back though when I realized I did not have the responsibility any longer.
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True-to-Self says:
I am also an only child. My mother has 5 living sisters who live in a southern state. She also has some grown step children now. The interesting thing about having step siblings is I finally get some validation as she treats them somewhat the same way.
Her husband had a really bad first marriage…..so bad that he got custody of the children. When he married my mother I believe he got another Narcissist or BPD not sure which. I didn’t know any of this until very recently. Heck she could be a spath fo all I know.
When my father was alive, he seemed to be a buffer between my mother and myself and did stand up to her. My step is an enabler. I actually am starting to feel sorry for him now.
It is interesting what you say, Oxy, about your mother taking away your right to handle her medically. That is my greatest fear is that I am going to be responsible for her. If something were to happen to her husband than all of a sudden she would be my best friend again. Oh well, I will worry about that bridge later as right now I am having enough problems dealing with my own health and have my autistic daughter to think about.
TTS
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Ox Drover says:
Dear TTS,
YOu know I did not realize it before all this, but we are NOT RESPONSIBLE for either our parents or our children after they are 18 unless we have a need….and just because we gave birth to them or vice versa does not make us “responsible.”
Your daughter who is autistic is one thing, but your mother who is abusive is totally another thing.
My egg donor taking away my POA at first hurt because it showed she “didn’t trust me.” But later I saw it as a BLESSING because it also made me see that I had NO responsibility, no obligation to take care of her…she is well enough off financially to hire someone to take care of her when she is unable to do for herself…or she can go to a nursing home. It isn’t like I am throwing a helpless old woman out on the street to starve. SHE REJECTED ME….to start with….but even if she hadn’t rejected me, I have NO obligation to care for her, legal or moral. It just so happened that her rejection of me SHOWED ME THE LIGHT. Made me realize that I really don’t have an OBLIGATION to care for her. I’ve supported myself since I was 17…I am and have been totally independent from her since then. I do not OWE her anything financially, and I have gone NC because of how she has treated me, because of her CONTINUED lying to me, etc.
Just like my oldest biological son C has lied to me, again. He knew that I will no longer tolerate lies and he chose to lie to me, showing me that he did not respect my boundaries. I asked him to leave my house, and then he lied to his friends, our friends, and his boss about why I asked him to leave. Another lie. I have no contact with him that is not necessary to coordinate our mutual efforts to keep his P-brother and my P-son in prison. I do not owe him anything, and he doesn’t owe me anything, but because he has chosen to lie to me, I have chosen to be NC with him. He isn’t a psychopath, but he is not the kind of man I want in my life—the fact I gave birth to him doesn’t give him any special dispensation to be in my life as well as lie to me. Ditto with the egg donor, blood doesn’t count above behavior.
I am glad that I finally “saw the light” as far as my obligation to others for THEIR PROBLEMS and bad behavior, for their needs etc. I am NOT OBLIGATED to endure abuse and then “pretend it didn’t happen and endure more.” That may sound pretty hard nosed, but there are consequences for abusing others and being shunned (NC) is one of those consequences where I am concerned NOW. I’m done with the enabling.
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True-to-Self says:
Oxy,
My Autistic daughter is in a good group home. She comes home every other weekend. I am happy about that. I have even talked to them about would she be able to stay there if something were to happen to me. They said yes.
I am an only child and she is an only child.
My mother has been smothering through the years. She was not the kind of abuser that anyone would notice. What she did instead was not teach me how to do anything and then treat me like I was stupid for not knowing how. Although she prides herself on always telling the truth and instead “catches others in lies” I caught her in one the other day. She was again making me the butt of a joke. I told her I heard that. She said she didn’t say it. I told her that was “crazy making” to deny something that happened two days ago. Her favorite thing now is “Why am I bringing all of this up after all of these years.” The reason is twofold, she is still doing it, and in reading books on Emotional Abuse, I realize that she was the original abuser. The hardest thing I had to deal with that may have been somewhat similar to yourself is that my stbxh before he was my ex and my mother seemed to gang up on me in their put downs.
It was very surprising to my husband that she took my side during the divorce. She did help me financially with my lawyer and buying my H out of his share of the house, but I feel I earned every penny of that money. I also did not put her on the title to my house as she thought that I should.
The truth is I have had a lot of growing up to do in a very short time. I pride myself on still being sane. However, she may be the one who will finally send me running to therapy.
TTS
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