Updates: More proof that sociopaths just don’t quit
True Lovefraud Stories, on Lovefraud.com, is a series of case studies illustrating how con artists and people who would probably be diagnosed as sociopaths ply their trade. Months, and sometimes years, have passed since these individuals were profiled. But according to updates we’ve heard, they’re still pulling their scams.
If you are still trying to believe that the predator you were involved with will see the light and change his or her behavior, read these stories. You’ll see that it’s not going to happen. Once a sociopath becomes an adult, he or she does not change.
Dennis SanSeverino
Since February, Trish Rynn, who lost her home and inheritance to Dennis SanSeverino, has been trying to hold him accountable. Back in 2006, SanSeverino pled guilty to theft by illegal retention, and was sentenced to five years probation. He was ordered to pay Rynn restitution of $275,000.
Well, he hasn’t been doing it, and Rynn has been trying to get SanSeverino prosecuted for violating his probation. The prosecutor’s office in Cape May County, New Jersey, wasn’t exactly interested in pursuing the case, but Rynn was persistent, and Judge Raymond Batten finally found him guilty of violating his probation. SanSeverino’s sentencing hearing was scheduled for September 26, 2008. He never showed up.
That day, SanSeverino’s latest girlfriend called the court and said SanSeverino was in the hospital. The judge didn’t buy it and issued a warrant for his arrest. But the con artist has apparently left the state, and authorities don’t seem to consider this case worth the time and expense of extradition.
Brian Ellington
Lovefraud has been hearing from all kinds of people about Brian Ellington. Apparently he’s been making the rounds of North Carolina golf courses, pretending to be a pro and betting $1,000 a hole. When he wins, he makes out. When he loses, he doesn’t pay. He also runs up bar tabs and leaves, forcing whoever had the misfortune of being the evening’s drinking buddy to foot the bill.
Then we got phone calls from someone with official connections saying that Elllington had been arrested in New York. He had a court appearance for a petit larceny charge scheduled for September 22, 2008, in the Bronx, but did not show up. A warrant was issued for his arrest. Ellington was also supposed to be in Manhattan court in August for a disorderly conduct charge, and we doubt showed up for that one either.
Phil Haberman
Lovefraud has written extensively about Phil Haberman, first profiled by the Dallas Observer as “G.I. Jerk.” Haberman married Kristen Rhoad before shipping off to Iraq so he could collect separation benefits from the military. When he got to Iraq he claimed special forces training, diving skills, medic training—yeah, right. The army shipped him back after 24 days.
Eventually, he received an Other Than Honorable discharge—his second one. Since then, however, he repeatedly tried to enlist in National Guard units that are shipping out to Iraq. His most recent attempt was last week in North Fort Hood, Texas—the largest active duty armored post in the United States. Commanders became suspicious of Haberman’s stories, and the man they asked to check Haberman out was already intimately familiar with the con artist’s scams. According to posts on ProfessionalSoldiers.com, Haberman was “shown the front gate of North Fort Hood and told to never come back.”
So what did Haberman do? He went to the Dallas JAG office and filed a complaint against the commander for kicking him out.
By the way, Haberman posted a video of himself during parachute training on YouTube.
Lance Larabee
Lance Larabee, who has conned women into buying him houses, boats and planes, has declared bankruptcy in an effort to avoid paying the judgments against him won by one of his victims, Debbie White. When White contested the bankruptcy, Larabee filed a claim against her for invasion of privacy. Apparently Larabee didn’t like what was written about him in Lovefraud and other places. Hearings are coming soon.
James Montgomery
I was contacted recently by a woman in Australia—my ex-husband, James Montgomery, is on About My Age in Australia, “The online community for over 50s.” Montgomery claims to be a “retired academic and screenwriter.” Yeah, right. This woman got suspicious about his Ph.D., Googled him, found Lovefraud and dumped him.
I checked out my ex-husband’s listing on AboutMyAge.com. He’s posted a photo that was taken in 1997, when he was married to me and was a guest on a local radio station, which is reproduced below.
When I first met Montgomery he lied to me about his age, claiming he was “a genuine baby boomer”—49 years old—when he was really 55. I wonder what he’s claiming now. Here is a current photo, taken in March, 2008. It is not posted on AboutMyAge.com.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
holywatersalt says:
And they escalate. Thanks for the story “update”
here’s another sad, sad story
http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....8483.story
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Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 7:46am
holywatersalt says:
ps
That woman must have just about passed out when she found this site.
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Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 7:49am
bird says:
I had a realization today. I have been so angry lately and fantasizing about the serious pain I want to put the other women into. Then, my mind switched today. And I said to myself “I have been seriously hurt!” I was first so obsessed with him and what disorder he might have. He’s a malignant blah with antisocial blah. Then I turned to the other women and wishing HUGE pain on her. Today for the first time I saw the hurt I am in. I saw it! It’s my turn. It’s my turn to be obssessed with my healing. It’s been six or seven months. I think I am ready for me now.
I was really hurt! and it really feels good to say it and to finally realize it.
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Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 7:12pm
OxDrover says:
Dear dear dear, Bird!
I am so soooooooo glad that you are going to focus on you and Birdie now and not give the anger any more time to etch itself into your heart.
Anger after what you have been through is so NATURAL, so expected, and I think probably most of us have felt that same horrible horrible anger, rage, wrath, wish for revenge….it is just part of what hits us when we have been so INJURED.
But moving past those natural feelings, and to let go of the negative and search for the positive, the positive in ourselves, the good in ourselves, to see the blessings we have and the strength and stamina we have, and what wonderful, caring and loving people we are. That we are WORTHY and GOOD. To focus on doing and caring for ourselves, rather than focus on the Ps and what they did.
You know, I think it is important at first for us to name, to describe and to go into DETAIL about every nasty thing they did to us, but I think that gives us validation that they are EVIL, just plain and simple EVIL. But, then we have to move on to let go of that pain and focus on the GOOD in ourselves, to find what about ourselves, our good selves, that let them use and abuse us, then to “plug the leaks” in ourselves, and start enjoying being P-FREE.
Now, the “details” of he did this, she said that, he did that, etc. are no longer important to me, I am VALIDATED already, so now, what I am focusing on is to take each day—not yesterday, not tomorrow, but TO-DAY, and make it a GOOD day. To enjoy the things I see, the things I feel, the simple and wonderful things that God has provided for me to enjoy TODAY.
Not to feel hatred toward them, or anger toward them, just not feel anything for them (indifference) but to feel LOVE for myself and love for those that love me. Just let go of the anger and malice, and leave them to God to deal with.
I can’t change the past, and where is the “future”? Is always one day away, but I HAVE TODAY TO ENJOY, an I want to make each day wonderful.
The past couple of weeks I have been watching some wild flowers that are blooming outside my bedroom window and each day I notice someting different about them and their subtle violet color against the background of the brown ground and leaves falling. A simple thing, but something that gives me such JOY. It had been so long since I had felt joy, all I could feel was the pain.
If you smash your toe, and are in intense pain, it is difficult for you to appreciate a rose, no matter how beautiful it is. If you are angry at anything, it is difficult for you to appreciate anything no matter how wonderful.
Bird, you have the most wonderful thing in the world to watch BLOOM right before your very eyes, you have the Birdie to watch grow and bloom. And sure, it is hard being a single parent and working and nurturing a child alone, but yet at the same time, the joy of a child’s smile, the joy of watching them learn new things each day and how they can watch a shadow cross the room and take immense pleasure in seeing it change.
I am doing my best to look at the world with the FRESH eyes of a child. To take JOY where before there was only anger, loss and pain. I’m glad you are on the road my love, here, take my hand, take the hand of everyone here on Lovefraud that thinks so much of you and your lovely spirit and cares so much for you and Birdie….let’s make that journey to JOY together! I’m sitting here as I type with tears of JOY streaming down my face for you! That’s the only kind of tears I want to cry now, tears of JOY and HAPPINESS (I’m a sentimental slob even if I do have an iron skillet to boink with! ) ((((hugs)))) and a cheek pinch and squeeze and big hug for Birdie! Love Oxy
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Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 8:35pm
bird says:
I don’t know what I would have done without you oxy. If I don’t write it enough, I want you to know that I thank god for you daily.
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Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 8:53pm
henry says:
Bird we are at the same time of NC six or seven months – who knows how long – in another thread I was saying for the first time I have had moment’s when I realized he was no where in my mind – just a moment here and there – and you are so right about staying focused on what they did and what they are. It is time that helps us – Time time for us Bird
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 12:02am
OxDrover says:
Henry, I and so proud of you too, I hope you know that. I know I have bashed you until the top of your head must be flat by now, but belive me when Isay I have also got a flat head as well from bashing myself when I got too negative.! (((hugs)))) Bro!
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 1:41am
James says:
“here’s another sad, sad story”
One thing about any type of abuse…
Is that in the end it touches us all……
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 4:54am
eyeswideshut says:
Huge step Bridie and it will serve you well to focus on your own healing, your own pain, the you that needs care and nurturing. You go girl! Actually recognizing our pain is the beginning of getting through it I believe.
About how the P’s just don’t quit.
I was recently telling a friend (also a victim of my P to the tune of several hundred thousand $$) about how my ex is pushing to not only get EVERYTHING (after raping the company I own and hiding funds god knows where) – not only does he want all of the little that is left, he wants to force me to assume $$ions of debt that I had no part in creating or any awareness of until years after the fact.
We don’t understand how he could have that kind of hubris. My only answer is unmitigated greed and a need to destroy his enmies, which now includes me.
My only analogy is the story of how some African monkeys are trapped. A clay vase with a narrow neck is staked to the ground with a piece of rope. A few peanuts go in the bottom. The monkey will insert his hand to get the peantuts, and then not be able to remove his now swollen fist. Rather than let go of the prize, he will stay hungry and thirsty and be captured, before letting go.
In the case of the poor monkey it is just a slightly maladapted survival instinct.
With the P’s it is their arraogance and sense of entitlement, they have moved and scored in the shadows of their lies for so long, that they think their real self is invisible, and invincible.
Because most of us cannot fathom the depth of their greed and malice, they skate, with a little false charm and humility, through life, taking as they please.
At present I am still holding back, in terms of retaliating with legal issues that would make his life very uncomfortable – to say the least. I am holding back because of the hell I know would be unleashed on me and likely my kids if I act to really defend myself.
Nevertheless, just the fact that I won’t let him take it all RIGHT NOW has him twisitng with frustration, using family and friends and the legal system for ambient abuse wherever he can. Who knows what he will do if I take the gloves off.
So, no, they only quit when they are jailed or die, best I can tell. But by all accounts they usually end up in a downward spiral of failure and isolation.
I do hope one day through research and education we can find a remedy for this wasteful, hurtful,dangerous condition in other human beings. Many of them would have so very much to offer, were they not so bent and twisted in their false life with their false self.
Meanwhile, like Birdy and Oxy and James et al, we can focus on healing and recovering our joy.
speaking of which, check out
brightnightgallery.com
for some extraordinary shots of our milky way and so on. Magical.
Peace and love
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 7:05am
Liane Leedom, M.D. says:
We have reason to believe that Barry Lichtenthal is also up to his old tricks. If you have been victimized by Lichtenthal we invite you to contact us.
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 7:20am
OxDrover says:
In 1969-72 I lived in Los Angeles where Charlie Manson and his “family” murdered Sharon Tate et al and saw it unfold on the daily news, so I have always been a bit fascinated with Manson. He also looks a great deal like my P-bio father in the face and both have that same Satanic STARE (“the LOOK”).
In any case I stumbled across a book written by one of Charlie’s jailers, a prison administrator who was in the prisons he was in for almost 20 years and was fascinated by him as well, and became “friends” of a sort with Charlie just to observe how Charlie manipulated the other inmates, and also the system itself to “get what he wanted.”
He called Charlie a “psychotic” at times, though he admitted that Charlie knew just what he was doing at all times, and other times referred to him as a psychopath. He never really understood why charlie would do things without any “reason” or gain apparent to anyone else, and that actually harmed Charlie himself.
No, they NEVER DO QUIT, not even in prison. In some ways prison is I think an IDEAL environment for them as there are so many ways they can “break the rules” (since to start with there are so many rules) and “breaking the rules” just to be “breaking the rules” seems to me to be something that gives them enjoyment. My P-son always seemed so joyful and gleeful in breaking ANY rule inside prison. Of course if he got caught which according to his parole report he got caught 19 times and thrown in solitary for serious infractions of the rules, busted down to max security from general popluation, and transferred to “hell hole” prisons from rather “nicer” ones, but it didn’t seem to phase him at all. It may have made him mad, but over all he still felt like he had “won” even when he finally got caught because he got away with it for so long.
He would always come up with some “excuse” to me why he got into trouble that was of course not the truth, but in reading the letters he wrote to his Trojan Horse Psychopath that he sent to kill me, he bragged about the REAL reasons he got “busted”—the book about Charlie’s prison life also talked about Charlie doing the same thing, as well as “taking credit” for various things that happened in the prison that he may or may not have been able to have “accomplished” to embarass the warden.
The prison administrator who wrote the book obviously had an ax to grind about some of the wardens and other staff, guards and “goons” (staff) as well as some insight into the way the worst of the worst convicts lived their lives inside.
Was kind of an interesting book from several angles though I didn’t “buy” it as 100% good insight, or even as 100% “true” but sure did reinforce that no matter where they are, they NEVER GIVE UP. And Parole boards NEVER SEEM TO GET IT THAT THEY DON’T.
The one thing in the book that I thought was very interesting was how being around Manson, the Psychopathic guards, and the whole system had adverse effects on the administrator, who had been in Catholic seminary for 6 years before leaving seminary and becoming a prison administrator. The stress of being around this kind of person at work, and the brutal “goon squad of guards” who would beat a prisoner without any remorse, he saw how it effected him, and at one point he actually became violent with one of his own teenaged children.
The Bible says “evil companions corrupt good morals” and I think that just being around “evil people” even as an administrator who had compassion for even the worst of the inmates tends to have a corrupting influence on even the best of people. A soul searing “contagion” as it were.
They never do give up.
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 12:09pm
takingmeback says:
This article and topic speaks to the fact that personality disorders are not curable. As we know, sociopaths are severely personality disordered people. They are diagnosed as such because their behavior fits a pattern that doesn’t change with time or experience.
I remember when I was trying to figure out what happened to me last year. I had never had such a harrowing experience in any dating relationship before. After it was suggested that perhaps my ex was a sociopath I was still in denial. I also have to admit that I had limited knowledge of his past and didn’t know if what happened was exclusive to me or not. I had been lied to so much.
As I was trying to put the pieces together and praying to make some sense of all of it the answers came. I was blessed to speak to someone from his past who shared that what he was doing wasn’t new. Then I watched him repeat patterns by dropping his blog on one website (because I confronted him for lying on it) and starting up on another. Literally dropping one identification as an athlete in one sport and starting another as an athlete in another sport. Dare I say that he takes the definition of athlete to another level with his big ol’ self. But he virtually “reinvented” himself. Or at least his public persona. To think of the lies he told the other people on the first website about why he was leaving. It was tempting to tell them the truth but how far would that have gotten his agenda regarding me? He had already been slandering me to them and got me kicked off by lying. Oh well. Didn’t hurt me any. I knew I did nothing wrong to deserve that. But it served him to protect his identity. That was his goal.
He also withdrew from life for a time and took a year off of work and sold his house (at least I guess it sold as I know he put it on the market a long time ago). It took me time and research and healing myself to realize what he was doing. I don’t feel too bold to say his behavior was a way to avoid anything and anyone who could criticize him as he had become increasingly homicidal last year after failing with his then current identity. At least he admitted this to me and stated that he only felt “sane” around people he didn’t know. So to leave and “reinvent” himself was his answer. But I am saddened to know that in “reinventing” himself he has not changed at all. Is it fact? Well, I am not in his life to know for sure but I won’t hold my breath. His former aliases, two birth dates and watching him abandon one website audience for another was enough for me. Along with the lies and abuse I endured. When someone is so bold as to lie to your own family and long-term friends….well, he was desperate to protect something in doing that.
In writing this I don’t feel redeemed or validated by having seen the pattern or gathered the evidence. I am frustrated. Frustrated that people do this and they continue to go on and inflict harm on others. But what do we do as previous victims? I felt that warning the next victim was the best I could do at the time. Since then I have tried very hard to move on. Not only have I had the emotional trauma to work through but the physical. I have been home for weeks now recovering from meningitis that has affected my vision this time. That is two times that I’ve had it in one year. It had been eight years from the last episode. Four now in total.
What I know is that the trauma and abuse they inflict does not just hurt us financially and emotionally. It hurts practically every area of life. I don’t doubt that the virus that’s dormant in my system, which brings on meningitis, is wreaking havoc on me this year because of what I went through. I am praying that the damage to my eye sight is not permanent. I also never found it surprising to learn that my ex’s first wife died from cancer at a young age. Once it was discovered she died within less than a year. I’m also not surprised to hear that a good friend I met in the hospital last year, who was also there after being victimized by a sociopath, has recently learned that her ovarian cancer is back. The pain she’s been having over the past several months wasn’t due to an upset stomach or IBS. It was her cancer.
So what do we do? Besides moving on and focusing on healing ourselves I have that nagging feeling of responsibility to protect others. I see the damage done to me, done before me and I know what he can do after me. I see what’s happened to others here with their health, their finances and of course their emotional torment. But what can I or we do?
For me, I fear that re-engaging in anything regarding my ex would be detrimental to me both mentally and physically. Afterall, I’m still healing from the abuse from last year. But leaving the wolf out to prowl without alerting the masses seems like an awful alternative. I know I am not responsible for what my ex does but I hate that I feel that I have no way to prevent him from doing what he did to me to someone else. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. I also don’t like feeling that in the games they play they continue to win. Even if in the end they make themselves miserable. I can’t help but think of the amount of people they hurt in the process.
It’s sad to see this article. To see predators out there doing the same things over and over knowing that others are at risk for being harmed. I am open to hearing what’s helped others who might feel the same way.
“Lucy”
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 8:23pm
kerisee04 says:
This is all really sad. I don’t think I’m ready to admit that the p in my life will never quit. I know she won’t– in my head, I know. But it’s just hard to believe that I will spend the rest of my step-children’s childhoods with her– never quitting. Even after this custody trial is wrapped up, she’ll never quit.
(Sigh)…
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 9:09pm
Letgoletgod says:
I do realize that everyone on this blog is from around the world and may believe COMPLETELY different things, but I do believe that we all, to some extent, belive in a GOD or some higher power. And because of this, I think therein lies the difference between US and THEM.
The last time I saw my X-S, I started talking about God, although this wasn’t the first time. Other times, he would talk about reincarnation. This last time however, he spoke of NOT BELIEVING IN GOD.
Ox- when you spoke of them ‘getting away with it all,’ or ‘never giving up or quitting,’ but mostly that they feel as though they “WON” somehow, is because,I wonder, that simply do not believe in GOD, at all. They lack FEAR, or consequences, and as we all know, a conscience. They believe they have “WON” and they will continue to do this forever, even in jail, until they die, because they do not see somehow that there is more beyond the RULES of this EARTH that will eventually and inevitably judge us. They do not comprehend that they will die eventaully, and none of their power (or whatever) will not come with them, but ultimately become their destruction. And if you do not believe in A GOD, I think that means you believe YOU are the God, and that is why they think they can do whatever they want. They see no end, no rhyme or reason to stop. In their evil eyes, they are ‘winning.’ We can do whatever we want to them, throw them in solitary for as long as we want, or even euthanize them, but they do not believe in an AFTERLIFE or JUDGEMENT, so it doesn’t matter WHAT we do. AS LONG AS THEY ACCOMPLISHED THEIR EVIL GOALS, THROUGH THEIR EYES, THEY HAVE WON.
I think we all know that is not the case, however. And that is why God says we should pray for these (people). For some reason, only GOD knows why, but they just DO NOT GET IT. We have all suffered, and we have all made mistakes, but we will eventually find peace someday. The “RULES” that our conscience tells us to follow, IMO, is something they don’t know. These “RULES” are something GOD has placed inside of us since before we were born. These ‘Rules’ are the difference of what is RIGHT, and what is WRONG. IMO, our conscience is simply being AWARE that we are alive, we will die, and there is a GOD (whether or not we practice religion or have a stong spirituality).
But these people will NOT simply GET AWAY WITH IT. If for some, this may be a justice to help them sleep better tonight. But for myself, I will sleep better knowing that we have someone who needs praying for, more than ourselves. I will be OK. All of us here will. Them…well, I’m really not so sure what GOD has in store for them. If they deserve what WE would do/give to them IF we were the God…I’m definitely sure they need someone to pray for them tonight!
LOL!
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 10:51pm
Letgoletgod says:
I would really like other’s opinions on my last comment.
Do any of you remember your x-S/P/whatever ever talking about GOD? And if so, do you really believe they actually or sincerly MEANT IT? Especially knowing that they DON’T MEAN ANYTHING THEY SAY?!
I think these are the people that really do need to fear for their own SOULS, since they do not FEAR GOD.
And that, IMO, is why they will never stop. They have no reason to.
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 10:56pm
James says:
I know that my or any other P/S won’t quit. Never allowing any type of closure and why should they? They never gave anything that they didn’t had to in the past so why should they change now? I have done all that I could to “weather proof” my life from my ex p. But in reality I know that the rain always finds a way in if just a few drops of moisture. So that I know I will always have to be steady and continue to maintain our vow to NC. I do thank God that because we (my children and I) know about people like their mother who lack empathy and any real type of personality that we can now see them way before they become a part of our life’s. To be forewarned is to be forearmed….
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Tuesday, 14 October 2008 @ 11:17pm
OxDrover says:
Dear LetgoletGod,
I do believe that a “spirtual” aspect is foreign to their concepts. They do not fear consequences (in advance at least), though they may hate the consequence at the time it is happening, but they don’t learn to fear that consequence in order to STOP the behavior to keep from getting the consequence.
When my kids were toddlers I ironed everything, sheets, etc. and they were always reaching for the iron. I was afraid they would pul it off and hurt themselves so I would say “Hot, don’t touch” but they kept it up, so one day I got the bright idea to turn it down as low as it would go, and I tested it withmy own finger, it was HOT but didn’t blister my finger, but it DID smart a bit for a couple of seconds. so I LET THEM TOUCH IT and said HOT!!!! So from that day forward if I didn’t want them to tuch something I said “Hot” and pointed to it—in fact, I pointed to lots of things I didn’t want them to break! LOL
But the Ps as adults don’t learn from a jail sentence or an embarassment, or a beating or anything else. You are right about that.
They do seem to think that tey are “special” and “better than” others, not bound by “ordinary rules like ordinary people”–and sometimes they do “get away with” doing bad things and not get “punished” by going to jail or losing their job or any other kind of punishment here on this earth, but I do believe that there is an afterlife and I do believe that we will hve to account to a just God for our behavior on this earth. I’m glad I don’t have to concern myself with God’s judgment, but I know it will be JUST.
In this life as well, there are consequences. If you drink too much you have a hang over. If you steal, sometimes you go to jail. If you cheat, your spouse catches you and divorces you. Maybe those things aren’t fearful consequences to the P, but they are consequences. Because they can’t love, they miss out on lots of good things that they don’t know even exist. Love and caring, selfsacrifice and concern for others.
Wini would say they live in their EGOS (Erase God OUt) and that is a lonely, dark place to be as far as I am concerned.
My mother says she is a Christian, and I have known other Ps who claimed to be Christians, even my P-son can quote scripture with the best of them, but even Satan can quote scripture for his own purposes. Living a life that is Christ-like, caring about others, repenting of your own faults and trying to do better, forgiving others and not being hateful and bitter within your soul, those are to me “religion” and “spirituality”–and it doesn’t matter to me if you follow Islam or are Jewish or “mother earth” or what your particular beliefs are, but all the religions that I have read about or know about encourage people to be good, kind, caring, selfsacrificing, honest, etc. and not to behave toward their fellow man like the Ps do.
There are some people of almost all religions who twist that religious teaching into a HATEFUL thing, if “you are not like us, then you deserve to die” kind of thing. I am sure that some of my ancestors were burned at the stake, and I am sure that other of my ancestors were the ones that lit the fires. People have always twisted religion into something to use to “burn others at the stake” but that is NOT spirituality or religion of anhy kind, in my mind, but one in which people use it as an EXCUSE to harm others. My own mother twisted what the Bible SAYS into what she wanted it to say, fortunately, I no longer believe what she taught me, and I feel closer to God today than I have ever felt. I feel like He has led me “through the valley of the shadow of death” and “made me to lie down in green pastures” and I am grateful for that.
My P-bio father even hated the idea that there might be a God. He died last year, and I am sure that by now, he knows for sure one way or the other. Eventually we will all know one way or the other. Frankly I would rather live a good life trying to follow the Bible and find out later that there is no God, than to live a life likek the Ps, and after death find out that there IS a God to whom I am accountable. Living a kind, good, caring life on this earth the best you can is a GOOD way to live no matter what else is true or not.
I think your name says it all, we need to LET (THEM) GO, and Let God handle them.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 12:03am
alohatraveler says:
Hello Bird (and Baby Bird),
I don’t get to write much these days but I wanted to say congratulations on your revelation.
Sometimes I think our mad-as-hell stage is just a means to hold us together until we can really face the pain we have gone through. As we all know, there really is nothing like this.
The antisocial-blah and the psychopathic-blah (haha) is something that binds us together because we understand eachother in a way that others can’t. Somewhere out there is another group of people that went through something that we don’t understand and they are thanking God for eachother too. That’s kind of neat.
Anyway, I think even if the “other woman” seemed to add to or cause some of your pain, remember that she is so-under-the-spell. There was a time I can imagine I might have done some pretty crazy things when I was under that spell.
For your own well being, it’s best to release all that anger focused on her and the Bad Man and pour all of that energy into healing your wound up. But you just figured that out, didn’t ya!?
I love that people are healing. I just love it. We are resilient and we are loving people.
I am tired so I am not sure I am making any sense but anyway, I just wanted to chime in and show my face and say good for your sister!
Aloha……… E
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 1:01am
alohatraveler says:
LetGoLetGod,
My ex, whom I believe is a Borderline/Narcissist with some some sociopathic tendencies (exploitation) was formerly a Minister for Assemblies of God in Seattle.
He did talk about God but said his beliefs had shifted and that he had “thrown off the templates.” His God talk was kind of cunfusing and twisted. I think his beliefs shifted to support his exploitive lifestyle.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 1:11am
James says:
I do have a question for the ladies of this forum, well more for the mothers of this forum. The question would be:
If you had more then one child and then became pregnant again how long before you knew for sure you were pregnant? I mean to me if a woman knows the signs of being with a child wouldn’t she have a good ideal way before she tested herself to see if she was indeed pregnant? This question has something to do with what my ex P told me and I never believe she was being honest with me concerning this issue. I hope I am not out of line with this type of question but it has been bugging me for years… Well thanks in advance for any input!
James…
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 7:51am
OxDrover says:
Dear James,
I will give you my best answers. The DAY I had unprotected sex with my husband and my second son (the P) was conceived, my back started to hurt on the left side afterwards…I knew I had ovulated and that I would be preg. I WAS.
With my first son I wasn’t even suspicious until I missed my period 2 weeks after conception, but they didn’t have the “home” tests in those years you just had to have blood drawn about a month or so after the missed period.
For some women they can tell when they ovulate (an egg is released) others can’t. My periods were very regular, some women’s aren’t.
Usually in a few weeks after conception your breasts and nipples may become tender as the hormones change, but it really varies from woman to woman.
I know a woman who had a preg at age 44 and she didn’t know til she was 7 months along. She was quite heavy and in menopause so just didn’t “connect” that she was preg.
I had a patient once who was VERY obese and she was DELIVERING and didn’t know she was preg. She weighed like 500 pounds and had a ten pound baby.
I know these are all examples on the EXTREME ends of the poles, but it just varies really. Some women can tell quickly and some not for a long time so the answer is not really possible for an individual woman without knowing a lot more details about her hormonal cycles.
Unfortunately James you will probably never be totally sure about her honesty on that issue. But my guess is that she lied if she used pregnancy to “hook” you. That is a common thing with the female of the P species.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 11:23am
Letgoletgod says:
Ox-
I agree with your reply. They jsut don’t seem to even care about the consequences that would bother a person who knows what love is, or pain, or empathy..you know where I’m going….Someone who has real emotions and feelings.
In the past when we would even talk about God at all, he would say that people who believe in God, or have a type of spirituality, are WEAK, that they need to believe in something higher than them because they can’t handle it themselves. WEAK, huh? I would be nothing without GOD! It’s unbelievable what the S’s or P’s ‘believe!
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 12:08pm
kerisee04 says:
James-
My husband’s ex-S seduced him during the divorce because she knew she was ovulating. She knew her cycle like the back of her hand. I’m not that adept, but then, I don’t try to trap men by getting pregnant. To add insult to injury, she said she didn’t know who the daddy was, so we had to wait 9 months to find out.
I’ve had three, and the first one, I didn’t realize I was pregnant till my period was 3 weeks late (I was moving, etc). The second and third, I was taking tests every day because I had had unprotected sex with my husband and suspected. Usually a woman gets pregnant smack in the middle of her cycle (day 14 from start of last period). She will know about 2 weeks later if she’s late and takes a test.
Your question is vague, but I’m guessing if the woman is a S/P, and was trying to trap you, from my experience, she probably trapped you. Sorry.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 12:45pm
James says:
OxDrover
“Unfortunately James you will probably never be totally sure about her honesty on that issue. But my guess is that she lied if she used pregnancy to “hook” you. That is a common thing with the female of the P species.”
Thanks OxDrover and yes I agree with you that she indeed “hook” me a second time when having one of our children. She knew I didn’t want anymore children with her seeing how our relationship was just after having our first born. She also knew how I would never leave any of my children and this allowed her yet more control over me.. My ex wasn’t obese or very late in her years in fact she was around her middle Thirty at the time. Again thanks so much. One thing I would like to add is that she had her “tubes” tied and until it would be reversed she can’t have anymore children… I think? Well let’s hope so because she is the type of person that “uses” children for her needs and cares less about them or their needs. For me anyway any person that would use a child to gain from that child is nothing less then child abuse.
James
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 8:52pm
kerisee04 says:
I completely agree. I still don’t know how I’m going to explain to my step-child that she was a trap– nothing else. Of course I won’t, but she’ll be able to do the math one day, and no matter how much assurance we give her, she’ll always know. Her mother cares nothing about her. At one point, when her 3rd husband was telling her to leave, she plopped her 11 month old down in front of him and said, “How could you do this to her?” She knew how much that man loved that little girl (he’s a good guy, despite being stupid). She used that child as a last-ditch effort at manipulation, even after she brought her into this world as a last-ditch effort to save her own skin. She’s not a mother, she’s a monster. One who needs her tubes tied.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 9:09pm
James says:
Letgoletgod and kerisee04
Thanks for both of your replies.
Letgoletgod, yes I know many people sees us (Christians) as weak to believe in a God when there is so much wrong in our world. But as I tell them God has nothing to do with how we treat others and the state our world is in he gave us. I would like to see how they can explain just how “weak” those Christians were who gave up their lives and suffer much in his name! Also I do know they see “love” as a weakness as well. Well if loving God other people and myself is a sign of “weakness” then count me in as being “weak”.
Kerisee04
Thanks for your reply and information and I do agree with you. One thing about my ex P is that as time went on she found it very very hard to lie to me. Which is why she became more secreted about what she was up to in the end. Like missing time and how she “really” spend her free time which she (she only worked part-time when she did work) had plenty of. Because I don’t believe on spying (wish I did more concerning her but remember I didn’t know anything about PD) on people and controlling them (but I was continually told I was “trying to control her“) I did allow this type of deceit to happen longer then I should have. Anyway thanks again Kerisee for the information and yes I do agree with you that I was “hook” and that she used that as a way to maintain her “control connection” over me.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 9:15pm
James says:
To whom it may concern:
One member asked me about Personal power verse Power over. This book deals with “Verbal Abuse” in relationships. Anyway I did find the book that break this down and explains how some of us have “personal power” and other believe in Power over. Also it tells the reader how some people in relationships can really live in two different Reality’s. The writer refer to it as Reality I and Reality II. It is a great book for research if one doesn’t understand what verbal abuse is all about. Then this book is for you. This is the 2nd time I read this book and plan on buying it..
THE VERBALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP
How to recognize it and how to respond
By: Patricia Evans
Also after reading this book I saw how I and my oldest son were in this type of relationship with my ex P and his mother for 15 years. Only wished I read this book about 10 years ago!!
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 9:28pm
OxDrover says:
James, thanks so much for that book information, it sounds like a good read. I will look it up. There IS a lot of good information out there in “self help” books, and some that are “fluff” and not real helpful but the more you know about dysfunctional crap the better armed you are against it.
One of the “best” P lines I ever heard was a friend of mine’s step daughter who has had (Now) 5 children, the last born in jail, was advised by her father and her step mother who was raising all 4 of the first children to have her tubes tied, and her typical P reply was “No, I might want to have more children some day!” HOW LOW CAN YOU GO.
When the 5th child was born in jail, the father of the “girl” called her mother and said “MY wife and I are raising the first 4, you get this one.” She did get her tubes tied after the 5th one.
The lady who is raising the first four of her step daughter’s children is also raising the two young sons of her step-son who shot and killed himself, and the mother of those two children was literally STARVING them. (they were 45% underweight for age and starture) I vote this woman for SAINTHOOD, her and all the grandmothers and stepmothers and fathers and grandfathers who are busting their butts to raise these “at risk” kids who are the product of uncaring parents.
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Wednesday, 15 October 2008 @ 11:09pm
hardlesson says:
James, I’m also the victim of female “p” “s” or “aspd” and her using her children and our child “my 44 cal. baby” as weapons. As far as the pregnancy thing, after our 2nd sexual encounter she told me she thought she may be pregnant. I witnessed her take a brand new EPT test from the package and go into the bathroom and return with it and watched as the test indicated positive. I later learned she had obtained urine from her pregnant sister in law to perpertrate this fraud. And of corse if you’re pregnant there’s no need for birth control. Thus that’s how she became pregnant with our child. Very long story short I endured a year of inconceivable abuse trying to save my daughter from being from a broken home. I’m now in my 3rd year of a custody battle trying to save my daughter from her mother. After being jailed twice for false sex allegations,two evaluations,a psycho-sexual eval for me and psychological for her, indications our we may finally win. Should be in the last few months of the custody battle. Plan on posting entire ugly story once my daughters future is assured. Best of luck to all of us who have to deal these people.
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Thursday, 16 October 2008 @ 2:24am
James says:
hardlesson
Thanks for the input hardlesson and I guess it is nice to know I wasn’t the only one. Silly of me to think so now. Can’t wait to hear your story and thanks again for sharing.
But I do have another question for parents here at LF and of course you as well hardlesson. The question is as followed:
After being in NC for almost 3 years now and not dating believing I needed all my free time to heal and learn from this experience I decided to try dating again. Well again being a single parent thought maybe on line dating might work. Anyway I meet two ladies while searching for a dating partner. The first one was nice but alas we had very little in common and of course no real chemistry between us so the relationship didn’t hold. Now the second one I was attractive to and she seem to understand about relationships and how one should be (later learned this was just word salad on her part) which included but not limited to understanding communication etc..
All was great in the first two weeks but I started to see some red flags in her. One was how she tried to define me and how she started to “project” some of her qualities on me. This of course is what we call “psychic boundaries” and I thought maybe by using communication and understanding we both would learn how not to violate these psychic boundaries. Sorry to say this didn’t happen. But when this person violated my personal boundaries I really started to see a bigger problem and one I wasn’t ready to deal with. What happens is one day I get a call from her before I was ready to leave for work. She started to explain how she had some thing to do that evening so I told her ok maybe we can see each other some other time and how I had to leave for work. While I was at work I received a phone call (cell) from my oldest son telling that she “just came over to see my them and talk to them”?? Now we have a family rule that no friends of my are to “just come over” to visit my children unless I am at home with them. My oldest understand this rule and know me well enough that if someone was coming over I would tell both of them about it first but again this never happens. I told my oldest that because I was at work I couldn’t do anything about it but please don’t let her in. Of course my son didn’t but asked me if I knew she would be coming over. “No son I didn’t know”. Then later I get another call on my cell and it is her asking me if I was at work? OMG what is happening?? Now I know she knows I am at work because she just talked with my son that told her that!!! God was I mad! Why would she just “come over?” I kept asking myself over and over again. Well I left work ASAP and got home as quick as possible. I waited to calm down before calling her to ask why she just “came over to visit my children”. I told her maybe (she didn’t have children of her own) she didn’t know about the “no friend visit rule” and please don’t do it again. Her reply was that I gave her permission to come over.. OMG!!! I couldn’t believe she just lied to me on the phone. I would never Give her permission and if I did because I just lost my mind I would at least have told my sons she would be coming over!!! I couldn’t believe this was happening!!! Now I am really upset so I don’t call her for a couple days to calm down before talking with her about this not wanting to say anything I would regret later. So on the second day again she just “stop by” holding some type of cake for my children (which I threw away) and wanting to talk to me. to see how my children were? I told her my children are no concern of her! Well dear readers enough is enough! I told her never to come back and please leave my children and I alone! Now I believe she did in fact violate my psychic boundary and then move on to violate my personal boundaries as well. Okay the question to parents on LF is did I behave unreasonably and what would you do if this happen to your children and you? Now to be fair this person never had children a decision she made years ago. Maybe she doesn’t understand just how “protective” we (parents) can get whenever there is a issue concerning our children. But then violating my psychic boundaries is one thing but violating my personal boundaries are yet another issue altogether. Plus lying to me really gave me some EM’s (emotional memories) BIG TIME!!!! Was I wrong to “slam” the door on this relationship”. Really I don’t believe I was and still believe I did the right thing. But I would really appreciate your comments on this event and what would you have done?
Thanks James.
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Thursday, 16 October 2008 @ 9:12am
kerisee04 says:
Okay. Applause to you! This lady reminds me soooooo much of my husband’s ex-s. She violates personal boundaries, then blames somebody else. She loves up to kids, etc, too. Until she’s got you. She lurks online finding men as well. This woman sounds like somebody you need to NOT see again. She needs to respect your position on the children. They don’t need any more instability in their lives. And if she doesn’t respect it now, she won’t later either. She sounds like she feels the ‘right’ to do what she wants for the kids. Most normal women would be shy around the kids and let the father take care of them until they are comfortable in the relationship. She’s taking far too many liberties. BEWARE!!!
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Thursday, 16 October 2008 @ 10:52am
Unwilling Raconteur says:
alohatraveler,
You said that your ex-S was a minister. Mine was a minor celebrity (recording artist). On his site, he sold c.d.s and a book that didn’t even *exist!* Many people were refunded, but a lot just sucked up their $20 or so — they still believe that he had nothing to do with the blunder, that it was the fault of someone in his “organization,” and continue to support him. I’m gobsmacked.
It never ceases to amaze me that these people aren’t shy about putting themselves in the public eye. This should normally cause others to look at their dealings with some scrutiny, right? But somehow, it seems as though they manage to fool even their most devout followers and believers. Reading this “update” depresses me. It gives me little hope that there is real justice in the world …
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Thursday, 16 October 2008 @ 12:33pm
JaneSmith says:
It’s been quite a while since I have posted a comment, except for the one regarding Dr. Steve’s article on..”Sociopath next door? Probably not.”
I felt compelled to state my opinion on that particular subject as I have declared war on these evil subhumans. Not a war of their choosing (manipulation, deceit, cruelty, selfishness) but one of MY choosing. I will either take a passive stance with them, meaning disinterest, no contact or I will be directly confrontational.
For example, I confronted a bully, a tyrant, an intimidator about a month 1/2 ago. He was my supervisor at my place of employment. For three weeks I maintained my equanimity, my serenity in the face of his irrational, angry outbursts. I am a patient, calm woman and I logically realized his misdirected anger was HIS problem, not mine. I wasn’t the least bit afraid of him nor was I intimidated by him, which probably irritated him completely. It finally came to a head when I simply realized I had had enough of his crap after he was yelling at me that I should do my job, as if I hadn’t been working my butt off for him allready.
I resignedly said…”ok, I’ve had enough. I quit.” This man was so accustomed to terrifying his employees to bend to his will, treating them less than slaves, forcing them to succumb to his tyranny, that I believe he was surprised I could leave so damn easily. My anger was calm, controlled, rational and justified and I harbor NO guilt, NO qualms about leaving a situation that could possibly be damaging to my spirit.
Stranger than strange, is when I went to pick up my last paycheck, he behaved as if nothing had transpired between us and that he was now such a “sweet guy”. Barf! I was actually a tad bit queezy after leaving the building. I have no idea (nor do I care) if he is a PDI or not. But it strikes me as truly amazing how incredibly deluded, how reality unaware some folks are and I just shake my head in disgust.
I didn’t write my above tiny victory to gloat or brag to you all. I wrote it to remind each of you that you have tremendous personal power and you absolutley DO NOT need to deal with anyone’s bulls**t!
If I can confront a bully then so can you. But after confronting, leave. Don’t waste any more of your precious time and energy on trying to reason or enlighten those who simply don’t give a rat’s patooty about you.
Your life belongs to you. Your happiness, your serenity, your grace, your self awaraness, your strength belong to YOU and noone can take that away from any of you.
Keep the faith
Peace, love and joy always and forever….:)
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Thursday, 16 October 2008 @ 5:52pm
kerisee04 says:
Well said, Jane.
I have all too often allowed my S to cause me grief, stress and bitterness. There have been many sleepless nights due to her insults and unbelievable accusations. And I’m sure she slept just fine.
You have acquired a trait that is admirable, and I am in pursuit of your level of calm. Thanks!
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Thursday, 16 October 2008 @ 6:30pm
OxDrover says:
My dear dear Jane,
We have missed you so much!!!! Please come post more often! Hope you are well and GOOD FOR YOU!
I had a boss like that once and she (she was a psychopath) and I had been WARNED but chose not to listen, but she “went off on” me (as she had every other employee there) after about 6 months of ever decreasing respect.
I immediately turned in my resignation, I didn’t even tell her, just put it in her box the next morning. She came into my office and said “Oxy, I think we need to talk.”
I looked at her and smiled and said “I think you said quite enough yesterday and we have nothing further to discuss.”
I worked out my notice and never spoke to her again. I think she was totally suprised that anyone would actually quiit over one of her tirades. I was then and still am as “independent as a hog walking on ice” as my farmer grandfather would have said (with people not in my family) and quitting that job and finding another was a matter of 2 days, but if I had had to live in a tent and eat out of a dumpster, I would not have worked for that woman one more day than was necessary.
YOu are SO RIGHT. No one can take away your peace UNLESS YOU ALLOW THEM. I refuse to be a slave to anyone any more, or to allow anyone to abuse me.
Jane I have had so much healing in the past few weeks and have actually moved back into my home and feel at peace here. I’m even going to celebrate Christmas this year after many years of not celebrating because I had such a “bad taste” in my mouth from the many years of turmoil and verbal guilting and abuse that I allowed my mother to associate with the holiday. I am going to do it up RIGHT this year and son C is coming home for 10 days or so between Christmas and New Years and we are going to decorate every surface of the house and yard and whoop it up!
Son D “threatened” to call my psychiatrist and tell her I had become “manic” because I am so JOYFUL about everything lately, every little thing gives me pleasure now. And I told him “Honey, save your dime, it is just that compared to how depressed I have been since the plane crash that killed your dad, you have just forgotten what I’m like when I am happy and not depressed.”
I think (hope and pray) that I have finally turned the corner in my healing from all the chaos, trauma, abuse, self abuse and stress, and starting to feel the JOY that life should be! (((hugs dear Janie))))
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:14am
Wini says:
I’m proud of you JaneSmith. I had to sue my bosses … all anti-social personalities … destroying everyone’s careers and lives. When it was my turn … I kept turning the other check and turning the other cheek … for years, I just turned the other cheek. I got demoted twice without justification, she just did it cause she could … then (they — all the bosses) violated my civil and constitutional rights … put it in writing … so the war was on. I never in my life witness so much evil … I couldn’t even make this stuff up or even imagine how low they could go … but, no matter how low they went one day, I knew they’d go lower the next. They dumped all the evils that they did over the year on me … flooding my personnel file with viciousness and lies … had everyone stop talking with me … spinning lie after lie after lie about me … and co-worker’s bought it hook, line and sinker … go figure? Hey, who cared if I saved their jobs earlier by being their union rep????
What was the results … yup, you got it … they all aren’t allowed to work there … but, were only given a slap on the wrists. Like, next time, don’t get caught. What’s this world coming to? My personal opinion, of course, they should be serving time in prison for doing this to anyone (not only that it was me) … anyone. They just went to other famous institutions … yup, making the same high salaries … and I’m sure, destroying folks that work for them at the new places … they never change … never change. Clueless wonders … the spiritually stunted infants of the universe.
Peace. I’m glad you walked. I hope the idiot holds back his venom with the next victim that works for him.
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:36am
henry says:
Jane it is good to see you here again. I always liked your spunk! Good for you….! Oxy I am glad you are going to be in the xmas (mood) this year. And I have watched you heal when you have been busy holding so many hands here on LF. With your past and what you have lived with all your life you are my inspiration that I will get there too.
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:36am
Wini says:
Heny … I never worried about you. Even though your heart got broken … you still have SPUNK.
Hey, look at the bright side … at least you have a heart to break.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:42am
henry says:
Hiya Wini Yeah I have a big heart and lot’s of compassion. And I give the best ole bear hugs and you just got one ))))hug((((
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:46am
Wini says:
See Henry … that’s making lemonade out of lemons (LOL) … a big bear hug to you too!
I knew we’d find the positive out of all this malarky.
Peace.
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:52am
Wini says:
Henry: I’m busy with writing GA courts regarding the idiot attorney that took my money and didn’t represent me on the foreclosure of my home. He’s lying, lying, lying through his teeth of course … what else is new?
Then … finally, the Lieut from the PD internal affairs called today regarding my complaint about the 2 detectives that refused to contact me on my complaint about my ex …
Who knows … maybe someone will do something? Ya think they do something for their paychecks these days … I’m putting it in God’s hands … to thump them with the frying pan over their heads.
And everyone must know, that I hate rehashing all this crap over and over again … with the courts, the cops, anything … I have to look at the evidence again and I absolutely hate looking at this stuff. It’s like it never dies and goes away … like a bad penny, popping up over and over and over again.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 12:57am
henry says:
wini when these things stress you out – come here and vent – we will listen – I will be happy for you when this is all behind you peace 2 u
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 1:20am
Wini says:
Henry. Most of the time I do very well for myself … on the psychological level. I pamper myself, I surround myself with good friends and family. I take care of my pets … it just when I have to actually deal with this crap, whether it’s the police department or the courts … or even his cousin … yes, yes, yes, I spoke and wrote his cousin (who works for a church by the way) … it puts me back into the doldrums … and I hate that. I snap out of it really quick these days … so that’s good … it’s just going back into the abyss and abyss they all are.
But thanks. I do blog some of the stuff that has happened to me and other things that I remember while I’m blogging … just to throw it out there so others know that they aren’t alone in this … but for the most part, I’d rather write positive stuff or joke around … except when the Newbies join the blogging … then back to helping them get through the worst of it … cause the first part of the horror is so unbelievable … it practically chokes the life from you.
Thanks Henry … I always enjoy blogging with you … your fun.
Peace and hugs … hugs and peace.
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 1:55am
Unwilling Raconteur says:
Wini,
I’m a blogger, too. I have not explicitly blogged about my personal experience for various reasons, but I do blog about the danger of sociopaths in a round-about way using real-life court cases as examples of some of the things that sociopaths do (I’m a geeky court opinion reader). Readers seem to enjoy the blogs, and if I enlighten just one person, that’s one person saved …
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 3:16am
James says:
kerisee04
Thanks for your reply. I don’t see this woman anymore because of that situation concerning her uninvited visits concerning my children. If this isn’t a BIG red flag then I don’t know what would be. I just feel bad about the way it “had” to end. And no I don’t see this person any longer.
About sociopaths in the workplace. I do agree they are there alive and well. I notice just like interpersonal relationships they will treat their employers the same. Insomuch they tend to attach themselves to a company and bleed it dry. And if a employee complains or file a complain they will just turn around and accuse you of the same thing or something else. I myself quit some jobs because I refuse to work for anyone that refuses to respect the individuality and rights of others. If they are indeed a sociopath or not that isn’t what is important. We all have the right to be treat as people not robots or slaves. It causes me much discomfort and anguish when I see others being abuse and disrespected by these so called managers and supervisors. Many are single parents that need these jobs and positions and quitting just isn’t a option for them especially with today’s economy. I believe anyone in HR should have to take some type of class concerning this problem in the workplace.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 8:54am
James says:
That is one of the reasons I believe reading the book on verbal abuse that show us what “power over” and “personal power” is all about. Many of these employer’s that display power over others get a “high” from displaying these behaviors. The book calls them “anger addicts”..
“When the abuser vents his anger on this partner (employee), he/she releases the underlying tension he/she feels from his sense of Personal Powerlessness. As a result, The partner (employee) feels bad and the abuser (employer) feels good.”
“Most verbal abuser are filled with inner tension, which they periodically and unpredictably release with angry outbursts directed at their partners. The tension then builds again until the abuser releases it again with another outburst. This build-up of tension and its release become a cyclical pattern of behavior. As soon as the tension is released, it begins to build again. I call the cycle the cycle of anger addictions and the abuser who follows this pattern of behavior are “anger addicts.”
I believe if we understand this “cycle” of abuse we can learn to deal with it better and stop allowing them to use us for their release of “anger”…
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Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 9:20am
OxDrover says:
Dear Henry,
Thank you for that compliment sweetie, from the first time you posted I felt so much empathy for your pain and so much hope for your recovery and healing.
It was only because I knew we respected each other that I felt free to BOINK you on the head when I thought you needed it. LOL I knew that even if I offended you with the BOINK you would forgive me, but I’m glad my BOINKs didn’t offend you and that they were taken with the LOVE that they were intended with. “This is going to hurt me more than it is you” (yea, right, I always believed that ! NOT!) LOL
The wonderful thing about the healing I think, Henry, is that when we are more or less “done” with the grief process over our latest P-experience, we are more able to go back in time and heal the UNhealed wounds that we put band aids on, but are still festering, from the past.
I can’t believe how DEEPLY IN DENIAL I was about my mother’s past behavior. I was vaguely aware that she had “ruined christmas” for me by “spoiling” it every year with one of her tirades about how I was “ruining” HER CHRISTMAS by not having it with Uncle monster when I would CRY and beg her to quit doing this to me and she would then throw the guilt trip on me about how because I “hadn’t really truly forgiven him I was going to hell, and besides, I was ruining her Christmas by refusing to have Christmas with Uncle Monster.” EVERY year until I just got so fed up I would NOT even celebrate at all. No tree, no decorations and so on. My christmas decorations are in storage in a trunk and I can’t honestly remember when I got them out last or what is in there.
It seems to be a minor thing, really, just putting up a tree and so on, but it had BIG emotional meaning for me. I would tell people that I didn’t “celebrate” or decorate cause “it is for kids” and we don’t have any little kids in the family, so why bother. That was an EXCUSE and I KNEW IT. But it sounded plausable. ha ha
You know the ten commandments out of the Bible, well years ago I INVENTED AN 11TH COMMANDMENT, that is violated more than all the other 10 put together.
It is:
THOU SHALT NOT LIE TO THY SELF
and you know, I have violated the “11th Commandment” so much that I now know why I invented it, I PERFECTED IT.
After my divorce my therapist told me that I had the BIGGEST AND THICKEST PAIR OF ROSE COLORED GLASSES SHE HAD EVER SEEN.
I didn’t realize at the time just HOW RIGHT SHE WAS. Those Rose colored glasses were made and sold by the “Denial Rose Glass company, Inc.”
I also had a “Sweep it under the rug” BROOM.
I had ALL THE TOOLS to keep me BLIND, DEAF and DUMB to abuse to myself. I could accept the abuser’s blame that it was ALL MY FAULT cause I wasn’t perfect, better than anyone I knew, and to “keep up a front” that my life was “rosy.”
I had no problem confronting abuse to others, but couldn’t do it for myself.
One time when I was 12 I was riding my horse in a parade in our local little town of about 5,000 and this guy had hauled his horse in a pick up (that was all we had to haul them in in those days and had to back the back tires into a ditch to get the horse off and on the truck–my horse was traiined to jump up in there on a flat) anyway, this guy brought his horse to town, and then pushed it out of the truck on a paved street and when the horse fell out, it’s front feet bent and it was on it’s knees on the pavement. A horse can not get up from that position. They have to get up front feet (not back feet) first, so the ONLY way to get the horse up was to let it lie completely down and then get up froont feet first. Instead this ass started beating the horse so it couldn’t lie completely down and then get up.
I was so insensed that I jumped inthe middle of this guy’s back and “bit a plug out” of the back of his neck. (no blood drawn) I got in big trouble with my family for doing so but to this day I do not regret doing it. While the guy was fighting me off, the horse layed down and then got back up on it’s feet.
BTW a cow gets up back feet first. JUst a little bit of animal trivia.
I have always been willing to fight to the death to defend someone else, but never truly willing to fight FOR ME, especially against members of my “circle of love”—but now, I am learning that those people who would abuse me should NOT BE ALLOWED to be held in my “circle of love” because they DO NOT LOVE ME any more than than man was “loving” his horse with a whip when it was down and couldn’t get up.
I literally begged my mother and my P-son to get off my back and stop whippping me when I was in such pain I couldn’t get up, and they kept saying “get up” and whipping me. NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN!!!
I may just be BARELY smarter than my parrot–after 17 years I figured out a way to keep him from making messes outside the cage on the floor—but you know, I AM smart enough NOW to take care of ME, and not worry about taking care of someone who should be taking care of themselves. No more enabling, no more abuse, only JOY and CELEBRATION and THANKSGIVING TO GOD for PEACE AND LOVE. What more could anyone want in life? If I had a magic wand and one wish, I would wish that everyone here on LF had even half as much joy as I am experiencing now in my life.
BTW–the little violet colored flowers are still there under my bedroom window. I don’t know how long they will last with frost coming on, but it doesn’t matter, I will enjoy them every single day they are there, blooming just for me!
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 10:43am
Wini says:
Dear Unwilling Raconteur: I believe that if we spill our guts about anything that “they’ve” done to us … helps the next person to know and understand, they are not alone with what is happening to their lives and it is not their fault. I think those are the 2 big hurdles to get through … understanding that you are not alone in this … and understanding that you are not to blame for what another person did to your life to destroy it.
Yes, I understand that knowledge is power and to arm ourselves to prevent future encounters … but there is nothing that will prevent another anti-social coming into our lives and being fooled by them. My EX perfected his game … he actually comes off like a loving, caring, sympathetic, “normal” person … and then Kaboom … he’s off down the road out of your life … already having done his damage. He can talk about anti-socials and warn you about them … never realizing that he too is one of them. That’s how good he is at what he does.
My situation is a little different than most … while my EX did me in … he was smiling to my face, acting loving and kind … and I was focused on keeping my head above water with what my bosses and their cronies were doing to me on a daily basis for 6 years. So, he either played me for everything he could get from me … knowing that I was devastated over what my bosses did … or he was a ringer for my bosses to destroy me on the home front, while they destroyed me on the career front. There’s just too many situations that merged perfectly for them to do me under …
The way I look at it … and what I know about anti-social personalities, they have to win at any cost. This makes sense to me … so if my bosses couldn’t get me in the career realm … my EX was doing me under in my personal life. They win, I loose.
But, who really looses here? … I’m still standing … no money and no career … but, I’m still a loving, kind, considerate person in touch with my emotions. That means more to me than any monetary, superficial stuff out there. So they won on the career issue and the money issue … but their lives are the real mess by not being able to LOVE … and my life is getting back to normal of being happy again… battered and bruised, but NOT done under.
My theory:
It’s easy to be an as#h**@ in life using and abusing others to get what you want.
It takes backbone and courage to be a decent person while you go through life.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 11:13am
JaneSmith says:
Kerisee,
Hon, my qualities are no more admirable than yours or any of the lovely folks who write on this site. We ALL are wonderful, sweet, loving people with an abundance of tenderness and compassion for the suffering of others, whether we are intimately acquainted with them or not.
That’s why we are targeted by soulless fiends. They want what we have and when they realize they can’t have it by mingling with us, they strive with all their petty power to destroy us. It’s been the way of evil since time began: annihilate that which is good and pure.
My battles are different from your battles. I’m not a mother nor have I ever been a stepmother. I would think that trying to help, comfort and support children of PDIs is a monumental task, especially in the process of gaining full custody in order to protect those babies from further harm and damage.
I truly and deeply admire all of you women and men who fight constantly to do the right thing, even when you are frustrated and filled with despair at the lack of goverment social service intervention. It’s a sad, sorry state when folks who are PAID to help the innocent are either completely oblivious to consequences or just don’t give a damn.
I guess that’s why the underground railroad for exploited and abused children was created. To assist the good parent in establishing a nurturing and safe environment for the children. Like I said, I don’t have children but if I did I would do everything within my power and more to see that my babies were safe and loved. As all of you are doing.
I applaud your strength, your perseverance, your stalwart spirits as you continue to daily face such adversity. Just believe in yourself and truly know that you are doing what’s right and just.
God bless you……:)
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 1:41pm
JaneSmith says:
Hi Oxydacious, you dear lady…..haha!!
And the adorable Henry and the ever wise and lovely Wini….!!
Yes, I missed you also and all the beautiful LF peeps. Although I do read this site at least one hour a day or every other day to stay abreast of the articles and essays submitted by the LF team and to read the comments.
I still consider it a necessity and my duty to read the tragic life stories here so I can empathize. Because I care deeply for any person who was a victim of a psychopath or is still involved with one. They deserve so much better in this life as we all do. And I am also saddened when I read that some of the peeps are suffering health problems, like Takingmeback and her bout with meningitis. How awful! Poor gal, my prayers are with you.
But I am also heartened and honored to read when the healing of the hearts, minds and spirits has started and each of you is reclaiming your identities, your passion, your confidence, your belief in yourselves. My own heart swells with glee, I tell ya!….haha.
Yes, it’s a long, arduous struggle/journey and it never ends until we take our very last breath but I share your joy in recovery. I share your new found peace, self respect and love. Love for yourselves, love for others and love for the world in which we live in.
We will endeavor to cast off the chains of tyranny, the chains of self doubt, the chains put upon us by the nastiest and evilest “people” among us.
As ML King so eloquently stated…”we shall overcome”…
That applies to any beautiful man or woman who has been ruthlessly and systematically abused and neglected.
This is our time to shine in the sun. This is our time to rise above the pain and suffering inflicted upon us and breathe deeply the cool, invigorating air of twilight. This is our time to live and be happy.
Peace, love and joy for all…..:)
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 2:13pm
Wini says:
Hi JaneSmith: I became a sponsor for a little 8 year old girl in Ecuador. She saved my life. The sweet little girl, she writes me letters and draws me pictures of her and her sister … and a pet. I asked her if it’s a dog or a cat (LOL). My luck, she’ll write me back and tell me it’s a goat … oh well, pets are unconditional love no matter what they are.
She makes me focus on how great kids that age can be, she loves math. Do you believe the generation gap … a little girl at the age of 8 loves math? How open and loving they are at that age and the world is just opening up for them.
It’s the best, best, best gift ever … and I never know when a letter and picture will arrive in the mail from her. No matter what I’m doing, I take time out to read what she writes me.
I’m glad you blogg in once in a while …. hey, send some of that sunshine to our new bloggers … they are at the beginning of this bumpy, bumpy ride.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 6:21pm
justgotburned says:
I have just gotten out of a relationship with a woman who has pulled over $12,000 from me. It all started out normal enough, she is a single mom with three children, and we were doing pretty well.
As I started pumping money out to get some things done for her, like securing a new place for them to move, suddenly several things came up where she needed more. Initially, I was more than willing, but it was like a hole that you just couldn’t fill. Then she lost her job…and stories became inconsistent. We went on a vacation in Las Vegas, and through some text messaging, I realized she was also seeing another man.
Total devestation.
After running a background check, I finally accepted what I was dealing with. I tried to keep my cool for awhile to get some documentation signed to cover the loans. Well, that is still not complete, I am hoping to not have to spend time in court.
Never having been in a situation anything like this, I can’t even begin to tell you how deeply it has affected me, but things are improving. At least I can sleep at night again. Amazingly (or maybe not), she is trying to blame me for all that has gone wrong. I am starting to write my first novel as a result of it.
This is a note for all to slow down and if anything doesn’t add up, check it out before you are in too deep. Fortunately for me, I caught on before it killed me, financially and emotionally.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 17 October 2008 @ 11:42pm
OxDrover says:
DDear Justgotburned,
Welcome to Lovefraud, Donna Anderson’s wonderful site. Thanks for sharing your story as well.
Learning about psychopaths and how they operate and what goes on inside OUR heads that makes us fall for their LINE with the HOOK on the end.
It is a bumpy road to healing, but KNOWLEDGE=POWER, and POWER=PROTECTING OURSELVES but not letting it turn us into bitter untrusting angry people, but instead to be WISE and to ACT wise and CAUTIOUS.
Welcome, you will find people here who DO GET IT, who DO understand what being CONNED and worked over for our money, our this or our that. They are like vampires that “drink” our emotions and our lives (as well as money). God Bless.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 12:41am
Unwilling Raconteur says:
justgotburned,
I lost about that much, too. I didn’t take out loans, but it came out of my savings (I had a divorce settlement) and my paychecks. And like you, it started out with an innocuous request to give him a loan when he couldn’t make his mortgage. It snowballed from there, and next thing you knew, I was paying for hotel rooms, plane tickets, expensive meals, new wardrobes, loaning him my spare car, a computer … I also “co-wrote” (better word: ghostwrote) a book for him to get him out of hot water with his “label,” and never got paid one dime. So he took my intellectual property too, and made a lot of money out of it. Continues to do so.
All because he gave me promise of a future together forever. It happens. You don’t think that is does … and you think that people would at least square things away when they want to break up or see other people. No. Not the case. I’m so sorry you went through this. Good thing that you did a background check … heaven only knows where it might have gone if you didn’t.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 3:28am
holywatersalt says:
Wini-
That little girl sounds like a sweetheart. I have been meaning to sponsor a child overseas- thanks for the reminder. Yell your friend she’s helping others! She really brightened my day.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 8:09am
holywatersalt says:
Tell!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 8:09am
Wini says:
holywatersalt: She is a healing gift, that’s for sure. I will never tell her about the circumstances in my life that lead me in her direction. The people who oversee the organization know. As for her, I just pay attention to what she writes me about her life, school, her friends, family. It’s the innocence of babes … that is so refreshing.
I write back to her how nice the day is, what my family, friends, pets are doing. All the niceties of life. Just two people connecting.
Since, I know that she, like most children, love to draw, I will be sending her down art supplies for her and her sister.
I do believe this is one of the best things that I’ve done in my life, including being on the elderly board and rescuing animals. Your heart just naturally expands.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 11:48am
JaneSmith says:
Too cool, Wini!!
I loved the comment about the mystery pet….haha. How absolutely adorable! Ok, now my ovaries are jumping….haha.
I’ve been wanting to sponser a child (or children) for years, but I wasn’t sure that the organization was reputable or not. Wanted to be totally sure that the money and gifts I send would be sent to the child and his/her family.
Do you think you can offer the name of the organization you’re working with? I would really, really, wish to help out also.
Like you and many others on LF, I have so much flippin love in my heart that if I don’t start spreading it around I’m going to explode!!…haha.
Thanks oodles for everything!….:)
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 2:50pm
lostingrief says:
justgotburned: sorry for your troubles with an s/p.
you wrote: “it was like a hole you just couldn’t fill.”
i call that the ‘hungry ghost’. in buddhism, i think it’s the lowest of the realms where these souls are insatiable for everything pleasurable: sex, money, power, possessions, etc. et al, ad nauseum.
that’s what i used to call my ex. the hungry ghost. no matter how much i gave him — of EVERYTHING — it was never enough. even before he had ‘consumed’ what i had given (and without thanks) he’d be on to the next thing he NEEDED.
incredible.
healing is here at LF. this blog literally saved my life.
i’m a professional editor. let me know if you need help with the book!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 2:53pm
Wini says:
JaneSmith: I went onto the Net and put “charities” in the search engine.
Then I researched what these organizations were all about.
I picked “Compassion” because I was focused on that’s what I needed to work on in order to heal from my EXs and my bosses and all those that had something to do with destroying my life … as I knew it. So I went with that.
But, you’ll feel what is right for you … it will hit you what you are working on.
Notice all the names of the charities … it’s intense and the names will draw you to where you want to give/sponsor.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 2:58pm
justgotburned says:
Thank you for the comments. The positive thing for me in this, is that I only gave up that much money and not too much time. (Mine also came out of savings). It surely won’t hurt me too bad.
Seeing that people have been involved in situtations like this for years is hard to imagine.
I can still win the case if I take it to civil court, I’m just not sure I want to spend the time, energy and money to make it happen.
The other option is pushing a criminal case. She did break the law, but I am having a hard time potentially putting her in jail for fraud….not for her sake, but for her children’s.
Of course, I can just walk and write the book…..that is the easiest of the three. It would just be nice to stop her from at least ONE more victim.
While the last month and a half has been a nightmare, it also has been interesting from a stanpoint of playing detective and piecing some things together.
Again, I do appreciate the feedback, and [lostingrief], I might take you up on the offer with the book. It’s barely started but I have ben typing like mad
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 4:22pm
Stargazer says:
Welcome to the site, Justgotburned.
Sounds like you have a good attitude about your experience, which will help in your healing. My experience with the P was fairly short–only about 3 months–before I figured out something was amiss. I was still very traumatized by it. BTW, I can help with the copyediting part of your book if you need it.
Dear lostingrief, I think your comment about the hungry ghost realm is right on. The image in Buddhism is a ghost with a huge belly and a tiny pinhole for a mouth. It can never get enough into it’s tiny mouth to fill the enormous belly. Good analogy. Normal people can sometimes fall into this realm when they become obsessed with greed and lust. But the sociopaths seem to reside there permanently.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 7:56pm
Stargazer says:
Oops, here I’m offering to copyedit, and I misspelled “its”.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 8:29pm
Unwilling Raconteur says:
justgotburned,
I would definitely pursue the legal angle, if I were you. Mind that your statute of limitations doesn’t run out — that’s what happened to me. By the time I was ready to file, I found that I could only file for the money he “borrowed” from a certain date onward, and most of it was lent during that first year. As long as you plead, you can always drop the case. Sometimes that’s all it takes to get them into mediation. For that much money, which you had to borrow, it would be worth it, to my mind. There is no way I’d just get stuck with that, sorry!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 9:10pm
Iwonder says:
Justgotburned: Was the money a “loan?” Was she supposed to pay it back? Only asking because she may say in court it was a “gift.” I was going to sue my ex for the money i paid to lawyers for him to file a divorce from his wife that he never followed through with. I spent $250 on the first lawyer visit, $250 on the next consultation and gave the ex $1250 for the atty to do the filing, another $65 to the courthouse where we filed on our own and he never followed through. I wonder if I can get that back? But, remember, you can’t get blood from a stone. All you’ll get is a judgment you can’t collect on. But $12K is worth it to see her salary garnished down the road. You may get like $40 a week from her paycheck if she ever works. What a nightmare these people are.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 10:33pm
Unwilling Raconteur says:
Iwonder,
That’s what I was told — that it would come down to a he said, she said situation and that he could argue that the money was a “gift.” That would have been b.s., but I can see how a court of law might have doubts, if there’s no signed contract between two people.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 18 October 2008 @ 11:22pm
OxDrover says:
I figure it must burn you to lose any amount of money to the P, but unfortunately unless you are suing for huge amounts of money and they have assets they can’t hide it is futile to get a “judgment”
Look at the OJ thing, his wife’s family and the Goldmans sued and won a huge wrongful death judgment, but as far as I know they never got a dime and he still lived high wide and handsome until recently when he went to prison. WHOOPIE!!! There is justice!
Anyway, sorry for that little aside—okay, I’M NOT SORRY, I SHOULDN’T LIE ON THIS SITE! LOL
If you really want to take her to court and get anything at the least amount of cost and trouble to YOU–take her to small claims court. You can usually file each “loan” individually and there are usually limits on the amount of each suit, but you can file MULTIPLE SUITS.
I did this and succeeded. The small claims courts are a bit like “Judge Judy” and the amount of evidence you have to produce and the amount of weezeling out of things they do is limited. I am in fact, going to go to court in small claims against a large natural gas drilling company that ruined my water well for my farm. I am suing for the loss of the well and also for the damage to my fixtures in my house–I now have brown toilets and bathtubs and sinks, they started out white.
The limit in my state is $5,000 so two X 5= $10,000. It won’t cover all the damage to the plumbing and the mess I’ve had trying to get filters installed on my well to make the water safe to drink and not look like tea with chunks of shale in it.
Cost will be about $100 for me. So, the thing is that then I will be able to collect from a COMPANY. I used to have rental houses and learned early on that NO JUDGMENT is collectable unless YOU spend an inordinate amount of time to try to run them and their assets to ground. So I quit trying to collect bad rent, but I did get the rent most of the time.
And, you need to keep in mind, “You can’t get blood out of a turnip” (or a stone) no matter how you squeeze it. Ps seem to me to have a particular talent for being like a slimy worm and squeezing through narrow cracks in the legal and moral systems. Sometimes it’s just not worth the hassle for the money.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 12:02am
justgotburned says:
Again – great feedback. Each of these were considered a loan.
We live in two different states, so I would have to see which one to file in for small claims.
I didn’t know you could do multiple suits, but the largest amount was $3K. There were three for $2K, one was a [cash] deal for $1K that I might not get, and the last were 5 separate $500 ATM withdrawals by her.
I had an agreement drafted three weeks ago, with very good repayment terms, which she ended up not signing.
Supposedly, and I emphasize, SUPPOSEDLY,
she is having a different one drafted right now.
I think (other than being obligated to repay), she might have been having an issue with the change of name or address by either party being reportable immediately clause.
But who knows? I have really crawled into her logic n the last month and a half, can usually anticipate the actions, but not always.
Since she is not working right now anyway, it might make sense to wait on the suit(s). Interestingly enough, she had a period of no employment last year for three months..,makes me wonder if this is the ‘annual vacation plan’.
As far as the book goes, this whole thing beagan early in the year, but didn’t really ramp up until summer…..so I am just getting into the meat of it right now. Looks like it will be a little shorter than expected.
Will keep you posted. It would be nice to have another person win once in awhile from the sociopaths.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 12:42am
OxDrover says:
Justgotburned,
Your comment about having someone “win” once in a while against the sociopaths, —-usually the “win” consists of getting out with your life at least. So, I did WIN, but just barely. LOL
Money is usually a lost cause, their “vacation plans” are more liberal than ours. LOL
Two o f my Ps went to jail/prison (my DIL and her BF) and my P-son is still in prison, and my son C is shed of his P-”wife” so the amount of money it cost our family (my mom and me) is totally WORTH it. I look at it as “tuition” in the University of Hard Knocks. But, this time I got the LESSON.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 12:56am
James says:
Welcome justgotburned
“This is a note for all to slow down and if anything doesn’t add up, check it out before you are in too deep. Fortunately for me, I caught on before it killed me, financially and emotionally.”
Words to live by! Thanks…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 11:23am
Stargazer says:
Justgotburned,
You said you ran a background check on her. If you don’t mind sharing, what were the results? Does she have a criminal background?
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 12:33pm
Wini says:
James and Everyone: I don’t understand why the courts and cops understand that this is the new way to rob a bank to get their money. Why is everyone keeping this type of fraud and theft in the civil courts? Oh, yeah, cause it costs us (the victims) money instead of the state money if it went to criminal courts were it belongs.
Answered my own question.
At least these cops and courts can keep a database tracking the jerks. At least do that.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 1:40pm
blondie says:
hello everyone
i just want to thank everyone on this website. thank you donna for creating this website. this website has saved my life. if i never found this website, or if i never commented on this website, i think i just might be in that bad relationship still. whenever i needed an opinion or i was confused and feeling trapped in his lies, this website snapped me back to reality. this is the only place anyone knew or understood what was happening and what i was feeling. I learned how to do deal with my x from this place. i hope that others feel the same way i do, and i hope that others will get away from there sociopath, and this place helps you along your journey. its help me along mine and it will continue to help me.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 2:37pm
blondie says:
i dont know what happen to my other post but its missing…
anyways what i wrote was that its been 4 months NC and i got and email today from the x saying ” thanks for ignoring me”. i just want others to see that they dont change. they dont ever get it. not one word about what he did to me or our relationship. no responability from him. i have every right to ignore him. why would i want to speak to someone who as a girlfriend and especially when its the OW. if this was last year im sure i would of responded back telling him why i dont want anything to do with him. but he doest make me feel guilty anymore. im not falling for his mulipulation anymore. i know its all a game and i refuse to play anymore.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 2:43pm
Stargazer says:
Wow, blondie,
You really got the NC thing down. I would be so tempted to email back and say “my pleasure.” You know you can get him blocked from emailing you, though I don’t know how to do it.
BTW, your name (Blondie) reminds me of my favorite Clint Eastwood movie. Bonus points for anyone who knows which movie and why the name reminds me of it. LOL
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 2:54pm
Gemini_Fairy says:
blondie,
I’m convinced that mine won’t try to contact me again (or rather I’m convinced but not really – if that makes sense) but everyone I speak to keeps saying “oh they don’t quit even if they have someone else. I guarantee he will.” And when he does it will simply be as if nothing is wrong.
When mine did contact me this last time he started out telling me “no matter what I consider you my friend, and if you ever need anything, blah blah blah – it started to sound like the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoon. Once he got done with his boo hoo I still care about you he actually said, “why don’t you let me come over.” It’s 1:00 a.m!!!! Do you not think I don’t know why you want to come over And was confused? when I told him he couldn’t.
Before that he called and said, “we should just go ahead and get married.” I think I responded that when I got back to the area we’d “jump all on that.” Yeah, that’s really going to happen.
I thank God everyday I didn’t end up getting pregnant with this fool! Believe me there were many opportunities for this to have happened.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 3:44pm
Wini says:
StarG: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Clint played “Blondie”. LOL. Do ya feel lucky?
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 3:46pm
henry says:
Hi Blondie I am comforted too see you so positive. You came to LF just shortly after I did and I remember your dispare and confusion. Time does help and also looking at reality. Do you still feel depressed? I just cant seem to shake this depression/loss thing. Been 7 months NC. I don’t think I will ever see him again. And that is good because I still don’t trust myself when it comes to his pity. I also don’t know what I would of done without LF and the peep’s here that have been so supportive. I went on a camping trip this past weekend with my kid’s and grandkids. I had a good time. But I feel so sad all the time and find myself wishing he was there with me. I am so sick of myself and his memory. But all in all I am sooo much better – guess I am just a big whiner….
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 4:23pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Blondie!!!
Wahooooo! I’m glad that you are doing great and that you are NC. Good, no, GREAT! for you!!! (((hugs))) You’ve come a LOOOOOONGG WAY BABY!!!
Henry, dear sweet Henry, are you still taking your antidepresants. I think the last time I talked to you you were off them cause you “wanted to do it yourself”—that’s like a diabetic saying he doesn’t want to take insulin cause he’s gonna try real hard to regulate his blood sugar and even though he eats right and exercises it goes to 700 and he feels miserable and his health starts to decline and he feels awful, he still insists on not taking medication.
I have worked so much with depressed patients who the medication helped but they would stop it and then complain cause they were DEPRESSED and “just couldn’t shake it” and I would put them back on their medicaiton and darned as soon as they started feeling better, they QUIT cause “I don’t like to take pills” and RINSE AND REPEAT AND REPEAT AND REPEAT.
BOINK!!! BOINK!!! That’s the sound of my skillet hitting the top of your flat head brother! But it’s all in LOVE so if I fracture your thick skull, don’t complain, “this is hurting me more than it is you” NOT!!!! Hee hee ((((hugs))))
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 5:05pm
Gemini_Fairy says:
Ox, I too was on antidepresants for a long time. And I would do the same thing. When all of this happened and I started seeing my therapist again she actually had to refer me to a psychiatrist because she is only a LCSW. So I was seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist. He put me on Lexapro with a month’s worth of samples but I ran out when I went home for those 2 months and I wasn’t working so I couldn’t afford (w/out health insurance to keep getting it)
Since I’ve started working though I have thought about having my doc put me back on. I does help. It’s not the be all end all solution but it does help. I feel like I probably should get back on it soon. Weekends for the most part I do okay but I have a new job and more responsibility and having lost jobs in the past do not want to do anything to jeporadize this new one due to overwhelming depression. Just thinking about having to get up and go tomorrow is getting me all sad.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 5:11pm
Stargazer says:
All right, Wini, another Clint Eastwood fan! You win the bonus points.
I hope I can deal with this funk I’m in without anti-depressants, as I cannot afford them nor the copays for a psychiatrist. They never helped me in the past anyway. I’ve heard Lexipro is a good one. It also helps with anxiety.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 5:40pm
Gemini_Fairy says:
The co-pays ARE expensive. I am ashamed to admit it but I’ve been on just about all of them.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 7:01pm
OxDrover says:
Medication is NOT the “panecea” that fixes everything or “numbs” the pain, it doesn’t, it just corrects a chemical imbalance in our brains.
There are programs were those without insurnace etc can get some help and there are also cheaper meds than Lexapro. My medication has gone generic now and that helps keep the cost where I can afford it. Some of the older medications that work well are cheaper as well, and there are some psych medications on the Wal Mart $4 Rx plans. There is a BIG variation in prices from one chain to the next and there are some drugs available by mail from Canada that are cheaper than US drugs.
My Rx at Wal GReens was $184 a month genetic, at Wal Mart it is $114. I have to take it twice a day on generic instead of once (long acting) but no big deal I just have one of those pill minder boxes and keepit where I can’t miss seeing it.
Every time I go see my psychiatrist (every 3-4 months) she gives me a month’s worth of samples so that at least pays for my gas to go see her plus a little.
There are several generic antidepressants that are really cheap, and they might be ones that would work for you. It would be worth a shot anyway if you are depressed.
Even with “situational” depression for big losses, they will generally help even if taken for only several months. I think personally that a study would show that many of us were probably depressed before the P-encounter and that made us more vulnerable to the P attack in the first place.
I know I was depressed when I started dating the P, because I was suffering from PTSD after the aircraft crash that killed my husband. Made me a perfect “easy mark”—
My dose of antidepressant is now less than half of my maximum dose, and with my doc’s permission and consultation I may try to wean off of some of it next spring. I will do it slowly and cautiously and monitor my mood closely.
Since some people who are minimally bi-polar will present to a doctor when they are depressed and NOT when they are manic, sometimes it is difficult to distinguish the bi-polar person from a depressed person cause you dont’ see them when they are manic. Taking antidepressants only when you are bi-polar (and may not even know it) can throw you into a manic phase almost over night. Also some people who are severely depressed and don’t have enough energy to kill themselves will be Rx’d antidepressants and it will improve them enough that they GET THE ENERGY to KILL THEMSELVES, so with patients I was very careful to make sure that they were closely monitored by a therapist as well. I had a former foster child who was Rx’d antidepressants by his family doc and ended up “improving” enough to kill himself. It does happen, so it is not to be taken lightly at all. Also abruptly stopping medication can have adverse effects and throw you into a deeper depression.
If you and your health care provider determine to give it a try, keep in close contact with your provider and/or therapist and a good eye on your moods. Antidepressants take a while to “get to work” where you can tell a difference and it changes your moods slowly. The goal is so that you are not depressed but don’t even “feel” any effects of any kind with your medication.
I also think it is a good idea to keep a “mood diary” or journal of your moods so that you can look back and see changes. Since we tend to cycle up and down some any way, and if you have not reached menopause your cycles will influence your moods as well if you are a woman. The phases of the moon also seem to influence mood as well, and if you have ever worked in a psych hospital or a jail you can know when the moon is full without lookng out the window by how the “inmates” act.
I jsut personally think that we need to use ever avenue open to us to improve our health mentally and physically and to keep us on the road to healing and getting better. (((hugs)))) to you all
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 7:13pm
blondie says:
Henry~
healing takes different times for all of us. i dont get depressed, about him. sometimes i do get sad, and miss the image i thought i had. i dont miss the real him. i dont miss anything in that relationship. if i miss anything its only things i thought that i had but those things weret real. they where real for me but they weret for him, he was just putting on a show.
another thing for me is ive always been the type of when its over i let go. im not the one who will call my ex, or email them, or try to get them to see me. i just start moving on. if they dont want to treat me right or dont want to be with me then thats there lost, i am not wasting my time.
the thing with my x. it was over for a long time. he chipped away at my love for him little at a time. every time something would happen, it just wore at my love for him. i wast sure how to get him out of my life. at one point i loved that man so much. but that loved faded from all the drama he caused and the selfishness he has in himself.
anyways henry you will get though this. i promise. we all love you here. one day at a time. its good that he is gone, he is not good for you. one day you will meet someone who deserves you.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 7:14pm
kerisee04 says:
Stargazer-
I have been prescribed Celexa, which is sorta like lexapro, and it’s only $4 at walmart. Something to think about…
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 7:29pm
Gemini_Fairy says:
kerisee04. I believe that Celexa is a component of Lexapro. Thank you for mentioning that. Even with my new health ins. Lexapro is expensive.
I was thrilled when I found out how much the generic version of the Ambien was with my insurance. I take it because my insomnia began to get increasingly worse while I was with the S. I know it’s not supposed to be used long term but I just cannot get to sleep without it. Unfortunately I have a medical condition called Interstitial Cystitis where I can’t even drink tea to help relax me at night so it’s the only solution for me right now.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 7:49pm
OxDrover says:
GF, you might try melatonin, it is an Over the Counter “hormone” like medication that is similar to the natural melatonin (which helps us sleep) our body makes.
It helps me and my psychiatrist also uses it instead of the Ambien. Google “sleep hygine” and get some more ideas from the net. The study of sleep, the different stages, how our anxieties work or don’t work with it, and how exercise, body rhytumn and time of year (amount of sunlight we get) all play into sleeping or not, and how restful our sleep is as well. Because I have severe sleep apnea and anxiety and grief totally wipes out my sleep cycle, and I am natural nocturnal too (awake at night) I worked nights for years because of this and have no problem day time sleeping.since I was a small child I have had trouble going to sleep and gettin gup in the mornings. Each person has their own “cycle” and actually I guess the one I am on now is probably my “natural” one, I go to sleep between midnight and 2, awake about 9 a.m. No sleep aids (medications) except the occasional melatonin or an asprin for “old joint pain” from doing too much.
I exercise quite a bit, mostly working and walking, and my stress level has decreased 99% so sleep is markedly improved.
Without sufficient sleep we are unable to heal, think, recover…in prisoner of war camps sleep deprivation is a frequently used “torture” and believe me it IS A TORTURE. After I found out my son killed the girl he was arrested for murdering, I did not sleep for 14 days straight, and at the end of that time I was “babbling”–after a few days of no sleep you can even hallucinate or be “insane”–out of touch with reality completely or partly.
Lack of sleep, coupled with stress and other problems that we have all experienced takes a toll on our bodies, minds, and spirits as well as our immune system.
Bottom line–take care of yourself in every way possible, diet, sleep, exercise, meditation, or anything else you can think of to pamper yourself. YOU deserve it!
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 8:53pm
Stargazer says:
I think I need to get out more. I need to take a dance class or just start going out and doing stuff. I haven’t even danced in my living room since forever, and I love to dance. I’m in a rut, and I feel isolated. I have many friends, but I don’t feel like I can really share a lot of what I’m going through with them. So it’s just easier being alone or on the internet. I have so many wonderful internet friends. But that doesn’t get me out of the house. I’ve just kind of been imploding on myself this week. It’s not healthy. One day at a time. Tomorrow, I will get some exercise. I do think it will help.
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Sunday, 19 October 2008 @ 11:09pm
justgotburned says:
stargazer:
The background check did show one criminal (drug) conviction from the mid nineties
The main things were financial, none good
Tons of address changes
Some interesting things with possible associates
Sorry if that is all kind of vague, but I don’t really think I can share too much detail in an open forum like this.
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Monday, 20 October 2008 @ 2:37am
Gemini_Fairy says:
Stargazer,
You sound like me. I wish some of us were in the same area. I used to be heavy into salsa dance about 6 years ago (so much so I attended the Worldwide Salsa Congress in Puerto Rico). I literally come into my condo and head straight to my bedroom (where my laptop) is and either am on the computer or watching dvds on my laptop. I have a few friends but either I can’t share what’s happened with them, they’ve basically heard enough.
It’s hard for me to push myself to do anything outside of work and sometimes when I do force myself to go out I’m just as miserable.
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Monday, 20 October 2008 @ 9:23am
jules says:
hi all, no they dont give up, not at all. my ex s path of three years we broke up in late 2005, he left me. he says he felt i betrayed him. ironic really. well he still contacts me every now and then after alll this time and both of us having had other relatinships. this usuually happens when he has just broken up with someone else and is needing someone so he calls me. this last time he calls e the other nght at 12.0 am sat night. i was asleep! his number showed as a private number which is the first time he has done this i got a fright cause i have elderly parents i thought maybe tnem so i answered it. he comes over all sadd and lonely asks to see me. obviously broke up his last girlfriend of 8 months. every time he does this to me. he never says he wwants me back though. he never says anything about his feelings for me just that he left me cause he felt i betrayed him and his feelings changed. when i asked him why he broke off this time with his girlfriend he says he just didnt have thoe feelings for her. go firgure it took him 8 months to realise. i tried to be friends with him but these calls now late at night he just uses me. also i work weekends and he didnt care he was just calling me anyway at that time. so he still doesnt give up on me always there, he only leaves me alone when he has someone else and doesnt want me to know about them. the private number thing is new i askd him why he hide his number he said he was calling someone for work an forgott to change it back before calling me! he just has no fear either at this timeof night i could have had a nother man there for all he knows. i hadnt heard from him this time for 2 + months then out of the blue there he is again. when i said on the phone i was tired he says i will wake you up trying to be all sexy, what does he think this is free sex too. just unbelieveable. when he started to see this girl this time he and i were friends or tryng to be, he just brushed me off to see the new girl, then no contact for a while then iget random calls, if she was away for the weekend or whatever. why do they think we are a reserve or replacement.anyone else had this expeerience with the hidden or private number calls at unexpected times? it catches me so off gaurd too as half asleep so was not prepared for his smart behaviour if you know whati mean please add a coment. the things he says are so random and strange, you need to be ready for it. but i was not. i also wonder who else he does this to as he usually has a few girls dangling.talking to him doesnt bother me just wish i had some quick responses when he says weird things to let him know im not scared or confused by him anymore. i half wished i had a new man to answer the phone when he calld in the middle of the .night…….any coments welcome.thanks.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 10:02am
henry says:
Morning Jules – I changed my numbers too unlisted numbers shortly after he left the last time. Not only to prevent him from calling but to save my self the grief of seeing the “private number” on caller ID and also to prevent myself from trying to call him. It was hard sitting next to a phone that never rang, but it gave him the message that I was “done”… Att will change your number for free if u tell them u are recieving harrasssing calls……also you mite get a male friend to leave a message on your answering machine that says “sorry Jules and I are not available please leave a message” and you can explain to any new friends or family why you did this — not a bad idea anyway!!!!
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 10:23am
Gemini_Fairy says:
Don’t know if anyone knows this but for a small charge from your provider you can get something called privacy management. Basically, if someone tries to block thier call or call from a “private number” it gives them a message that “the person you are calling does not accept calls from callers who block their numbers…etc., etc.”
Henry – I too am considering changing the number mostly to keep myself from sitting next to my phone as well. It’s a pain cause that’s a lot of people I have to give my new number to.
And yes, jules, the last call I got from mine was a 1:00 a.m phone call and he too tried to be all sweet and syrupy. Once he called me – I was knocked out on Ambien and I vaguely remember talking to him and his saying he was coming over to see me. Another time it was a ” call me no matter what time you get this message. I hope you are enjoying yourself with your family sweetie, BLAH! BLAH!BLAH!!
The Ambien is the only thing that saves me. Once I’m on that I have no choice but to stay away from the phone bc being on that is the equivlent of being drunk and believe me I’ve done my fair share of the “drunk” calls.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 10:34am
henry says:
geminifairy ambien i love it!! anyway at first when he left I was upset when he didnt call and i was upset when he did call. one time i hit redial and he answered and we talked about a minute and I said do you know who this is? and he said very sweetly yes this is Robert~~~~~~well I aint robert but that bout killed me so I changed numbers that day. Yes it is a pain in the butt but worth it …….
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 10:50am
Gemini_Fairy says:
Oh henry, I was just like that. Nearly wore my friends out with the constant. Do you think he’ll call? Yes, he’ll call you but why do you want to talk to him. It was the same way. I think bc you get nothing resolved form NC or with contact bc you know with contact you’ll hear the lies, and w/out it they aren’t thinking about you and wanting to be with you and why don’t they? I love Ambien to but I have to be careful with it. Supposedly I called him while I was on it one day. Now he could have just said that bc he knows I take it but that was enough for me. All I need is to call him asking him to come over.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 10:57am
henry says:
some of us are slow learners including myself..but we have to stop the madness – if we have come to a website about pyhscopaths etc. and we know with out a doubt that is what they are. we have no choice we can never see or talk to these people again – zilch – nada – it hurt’s but for me that is my only choice – or else I will die……….
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 11:08am
OxDrover says:
Guys/Gals,
After my husband died, and the “death of a relationship” is just as traumatic as a physical death–the grief is the same, maybe worse—I sat like a zombie for 3 months, tried to go back to work for 2 days a week, that didn’t last long–then sat like a zombie, not caring if my floor was covered in mud/dirt and god knows what! Not caring if I age (lost 35 pounds) etc. and was in that shape when I ran into the P—and instantly I’m alive again, all “happy” and going places etc, thinking I am all over the trauma of my husband’s death, my son’s kicking his GF to the curb (we realized she was very dysfunctional) he said it was worse than the plane crash he was in it too, anyway, then after 4 months of bliss and 4 months of misery, Ikicked the P to the curb and I was back to SQUARE ONE like I was after my husband died. Talk about a set back!
It is imperative that we truly HEAL before we start looking for another relationship or we will wind up with another P. How many of you see friends or acquaintances go from bad relationship to worse relationship and to bad relationship again? How many of you have DONE it? I know I have for sure, because I wasn’t truly through the grief process and healed, plus, I had some enabling issues I had NEVER ADDRESSED until this chaos and madness with my family hit.
So, I am better, much better, but even yet, I’m not seeking another relationship and I am no longer “needy” for one. Thank you Jesus! I do have my sons and a couple of good close friends that I could talk to if I needed to, but thank goodness I no longer need to go over and over and over it (except here) and even the “details” are no longer important.
At first EVERY lie, EVERY injury, etc etc was important to dissect over and over looking for new information about it. Now, the details are NOT important any morel. They were P’s they betrayed me. PERIOD. They are out of my life. Period. Now I am healing—-now I am better, stronger, wiser, and filled with JOY! Joy I never felt like this before. I can set boundaries and not feel guilty. I can say “no” and not feel bad. I am, I think, finally becoming an ADULT and a COMPLETE human being. Isn’t that an amazing thing, and in December I’ll celebrate 61 years of being a child and one year of being an ADULT.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 1:05pm
henry says:
oxy It is rainy and cold here today. I was wanting to talk at ya a bit before I go plant some pansy’s in the rain. I still think about him. But it does not hurt. I don’t miss him. I don’t feel needy. I don’t want another relationship. Has took me 6 month’s. But I think what kept me holding on to hope was “maybe I am wrong”. I feel it in my heart and soul now that I was not wrong. He is a cluster B. I can not help him. I feel sad for him. But never want to see him again. I have stopped looking out the window for him. I seem to have come to a place of peace with what has happened. Also I don’t feel like a bad son for not kissing my mother’s butt anymore. I know I am a good person. I know I was being used. I will stand up for myself and take care of me. And I don’t care what other’s think about me. Life goes on OXY….oh btw put yer skillit away – I have permanent brain damage already….have a good one OX
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 1:29pm
Gemini_Fairy says:
Hey Oxy, It’s Gem! I am not even CLOSE to wanting to get into another relationship now. I spent almost 4 years with one pathetic S and bounced right into this last one without even pausing. The thought that I have spent 4 years of my 30s on nonesense when I’m supposed to be living it up (that’s what I heard at least) and now I’m having to deal with this crap and trying to get through. All my friends want to set me up or tell me to get out there and date or whatever. I went out with a friend once! To a simple house party and this guy just thought “wow! I’ve met someone who likes music as much as me.” He stayed attached by my side all night – and it was annoying.
Yeah, I definitely need to work through my own stuff before I attempt. Anyway, Everytime you post you make me miss my mom. Sometimes we meet each other at a halfway point from where she is and where I am. I may have to have one of those soon. I’m such a big baby! 34 years old and I still cuddle up with her when I see her.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 2:37pm
Taken for a ride says:
Here is the latest from the sp she has sent me text messages over the cell phone with a picture of the mask face from the movie saw and it has a message that says if i dont send the message to ten people i know that at 12 pm i will or my loved ones will have something bad happen to them, needless to say i deleated it and ignored it this was 2 nights in a row. Yes they do not quit. I went to church the next day and lit 2 candles and prayed for peace and love. I yi yi !
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 3:02pm
southernman429 says:
I agree Oxy… I was the perfect “victim” of a sociopath after my wife died.. I was lonely and vulnerable and wanted so very much to repair my broken family.. giving my son another mother figure and myself another wife….. I moved him and me out of the house we shared with his mother and bought a new house.. it was our new begining… After the sociopath, this new house feels tainted.. She spent much of her time here with us.. so there are so many memories of her here… that part really makes me angry because we moved out of the old house because it was too painful to live there because of all the memories of my life with my late wife….
Over the past year, it’s gotten better, and I am starting to regain a joy about this house, but still… it’s still here… the weird memories of life with the socio… even though she (socio) left over 2 1/2 years ago, it seems like it was all a bad dream…. like it happened a long time ago …..same goes for my wife.. this January she’ll be gone 6 years… but it feels like a 100 years…….I don’t know…. seems to take a long time to heal from things….sometimes it feels like i’m stuck living with one foot in the past and the other in the now…..I know that isn’t good, but it’s memories and things in my mind that seem to come up…. and even though I’ve grown so much since my wife and the socio, I sometimes don’t recognize me anymore… it’s like I feel lost sometimes… not really knowing where and what to do….sort of like just floating with the current… although, that’s not such a bad thing to do…living a simplified life with as little struggle as possible… could be a self-preservation thing…..it’s a little unnerving though.. before the socio, I was driven.. with a strong purpose.. clear goals…. focusing on what’s ahead…. Oxy, do you think it’s normal and healthy to sort of fall back and just drift for a while because of the losses and their toll upon my psyche?…. I hate that I didn’t take my wifes illness and death very well, but I hate it even more that I took the fallout from the socio even worse….
To love another takes courage,
To love at all is to be vulnerable.
But always remember,
you never lose by loving,
You lose by holding back.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 4:11pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Southernman,
“Healthy to just drift?” No, quite the contrary, I think it IS HEALTHY to just “drift”—to come to a place that is calm, no expectations, no stress. We need that “down time” in order to heal.
If you had pneumonia and went to the hospital and got treated when you got home you would still not be “well” you would be weak from the inactivity while you were sick, your lungs would not be up to where they were before the injury of the illness, so would you go right out and start digging ditches the first day out of the hospital? Of course not! Your body and mind need REST–pampering as Wini would say. Do as little of the “have tos” as you can get by with, and as many of the “want tos” as you can and let the rest go until you want to do it. Til you have the strength to do it. Keep your life as stress free and change free as possible. Celebrate the moments, the little things. See the joy in your son’s eyes when he sees a butterfly, or learns to ride a ten speed, or whatever progress is there. Spend time with the boy and enjoy him, bond closer to him and him to you.
Forget the dishes and the unswept floors (as much as is reasonable) and go for an icecream cone instead. Or go pitch a ball to him, visit a friend, etc.
Take joy in the small every day blessings that sometimes we are too “busy” to see, spend more time in prayer, in rejoicing and thanking God for your blessings. Celebrate the moments every single one! Build your strength, you’ve had the double, triple WHAMMY, losing your wife, then losing your “fantasy” of another “great love”—so you need time to heal. My husband has been going nearly 4 1/2 years and I am come to peace with that, he is “here in this house” where ever I look, but it is not an unhappy memory. I can see the place his plane crashed from the hangar door, but it doesn’ give me pain. I feel the GOOD and HAPPY times with him here, and I am at peace and closure with his death. Sure I still miss him but there are no tears of sadness any more.
Ditto with my step father.
The P X-BF is a distant memory now who brings no pain with it. The feeling of peace has again returned to my house and I am able to live here now quite happily and am redecorating and rearranging, making minor repairs that have been neglected, cleaning out the old offices and making an art studio, cleaning out the 2 story barn and setting up my wood working shop with a home of its own…prior to now my tools were scattered wherever someone could find a spot to stack them, now with the “clean out campaign” just about done, they will have a HOME OF THEIR OWN and I can find them anytime because I will know where they live. LOL
I mop the floors now when they need it, but it is not the priority of my life any more and if they need it and the weather is nice and it is beautiful outside and I would rather go outside, I don’t feel guilty about leaving them til a rainy day! LOL I work when I feel like it, do the most pressing thing that has to be done, and when I don’t feel like it, I let the rest slide. I AM PAMPERING MYSELF, PUTTING MY NEEDS FIRST.
I am setting boundaries for those people in my life who would, if I let them, walk on me to one degree or another, and I am not feeling guilty about setting those boundaries and defending them.
It seems in some ways like my husband died last week, and at other times like 100 years ago. Time is not just by the “clock” but time is fluid and sometimes things seem to take forever when they are actually quick, and other times seem quick when they take weeks to do. Just let time flow, and don’t worry about “how long” it takes by the calendar, just as long as it takes.
You also might consider a hospice grief counseling group, they usually last about 5 weeks one night a week, and I highly recommend them.
Most of all, Southernman, take care of yourself and your son, pamper yourselves, how “well you took your wife’s death” is individual, and however it was is how it was. Period. It is YOU, it is your individual feeling, it is not “well or good, or poor” it just IS. (((BIG HUGS))))) AND ALWAYS PRAYER! Oxy
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 6:51pm
ANewDay says:
Hi Everyone,
I can’t tell you all how happy I am to have found this site. I wish I had found it a little sooner because I was so depressed for weeks trying to figure out WTF happened and why I was dumped. It is such a sad relief to realize there are others out there who have experienced this similar situation. I’m so sorry for all the suffering you’ve all had to go through. When I read all the posts so many of them make me cry because I can relate so well to the pain and quite a few I could have written myself. So many stories seem similar to mine; being sucked in so quickly and then hung out to dry.
All I can say is he saw me coming and took full advantage. I met him when I was at my lowest. My marriage was on the rocks and my career faltering. There were so many warning signs, many from his own mouth. I keep asking myself why was I so blind and why did I allow it to continue? He rushed in and swept me off my feet, it all seemed so romantic. He is a true charmer, not much to look at and honestly at first I wasn’t interested but he was persistent, so I gave him a chance. I regret giving him that chance, a part of me was always wary of him from the start and I wish I had listened.
Now looking back I can see what his MO is; he finds women who are unhappy in their marriage because they’re in a vulnerable position. He even told me about a woman he had been involved with before me, that actually left her marriage for him. That he had ruined her life because he wasn’t ready to get committed again. The real truth is I think he abandoned her when she left her husband. I’m sure he never intended to be with her. He probably promised her as he promised me. He would speak often of marriage and a life together but as time went on it became obvious it was just a lie. He was very charming and generous in the beginning just long enough to hook me but then the disappearances began. They would happen without warning or mostly now I see at times when I was the happiest or around holidays, birthdays, special events… Life would seem wonderful and then without warning he’d be gone, it became a horrible rollercoaster. It would leave me wondering for days what did I do or what was wrong with me. Or he would talk about these wonderful trips we could take or surprises he had for me but nothing ever materialized. When I could no longer take the disappearances and broken promises, I would confront him. It was always all in my head, everything was always in my head as if I was the one with the problem. He was very good at getting out of the worst situations until March.
In March after another withdrawal I discovered his away message one night said “please contact me LILY.” The first initial was that of the other woman he had abandoned, ILY=I love you. He was trying to win this other lady back, so I broke it off but stupidly allowed him to weasel his way back in. Then I found another woman’s name on his online bud list, she’s just a friend I was told and she’s married. I added her to my bud list to find they are always on together 10 min of each other signing on and that would be when his messages to me would slow or he’d suddenly be tired. I’ve been itching to email her some of his missives to me but I’m sure she’s been informed of me already. After all he told me about his “crazy” ex wife who I’ve met and seems pleasant enough. In the same time this woman’s name appeared on his list, a friend from his past suddenly popped back into his life. Seems his marriage is an unhappy one. Can you see where this is going? Sure enough my S began spending lots of time at their house and guess what they are now divorcing. He of course claims to be staying out of the whole mess; uh huh I’m sure. Over the summer I had rescued some kittens and the woman’s daughter wanted one. I asked to go with him to drop it off so I could see for myself. When she opened the door it was like looking in a mirror, she could even be my sister! When we were ready to leave, she asked him if he’d be stopping by later. The look on her face when she asked was all I needed, it was the glow of being under his charm. That week I was away and discovered he was at her house every night. He would never give me a direct answer as to how often he would be at the house alone with her. That was it for me. We were supposed to spend time together when I got back from vacation but as usual he was MIA. A job opportunity came up and I took it. He was furious because now he had no more control over me. He could neither be with me when he wanted or depress me by ignoring me (something I’ve learned he loves to do to hurt me). I took the job purposely to start breaking things off with him. I had promised myself his next disappearance would be his last that it would be over. I was sick of all the “married” women in his life, the lies, the broken promises, the disappointments.
During my first day at work I called him to tell him how great my day was going. He seemed really put off that I was so happy and commented several times at how happy I sounded. This man I’ve discovered hasn’t worked in 7 years. Always has some sob story about why he can’t work, is always coming up with some hair brain scheme or scam. When I first met him, he supposedly had lots of money but is now being chased by bill collectors. I’m so glad the few times he asked if he could use my credit card because he had misplaced his that I said no. What a mess that would have been!
Last year I was almost in financial ruin because of my relationship with him. He was just all consuming and I lost a lot of business because I was unable to handle the deadlines and was making a lot of mistakes. It was all caused by him. Either he would stop by at times when I told him I was really busy or call me on the phone. When I would try to explain that it wasn’t a good time, he would make me feel guilty for not wanting to be with him and punish me by not answering the phone or email for days. I would then fall into a depression and wouldn’t be able to keep up with my work. During this time he also helped to further alienate me from my husband. I know I can’t entirely blame him for all the heartache I brought on myself. I am after all a grown woman and made my own choices. In the very beginning I did tell him I wanted to work on my marriage that I wasn’t interested but he was like I said persistent. My marriage deteriorated further and we separated. He of course came on so strong it was so hard not to fall for him. I went from being worshipped to totally discarded. After my happy phone call from work to him, he completely disappeared offline, stopped answering the phone or email. It’s just a shock that something could come to an end so abruptly. It was so hurtful but I expected it and blamed myself for taking the job because I believe it pushed him away. Deep down I knew it was what I wanted, to be free of him, to go back to my husband, to get my life back but it still hurt. I remember the fun times we had, his voice, his scent, how he pursued me, how romantic it was at one time…but I know it was all fake now. It’s so hard to realize all you shared or thought you shared was all just a lie. Even now I wonder if he ever loved me at any point and it hurts to think he never did.
Currently I’m working on my marriage, my career has picked up and has helped keep my mind busy from dwelling. I’ve been trying to maintain NC with my S but he’s either called, emailed, stopped by the house. What’s difficult is he lives a few houses down from me and I do try and avoid being outside if I see him out as much as possible. The bad thing is he has always kept close tabs on my schedule (he obviously watched my comings and goings) so knows how to run into me when he wants to. I have tried to mix up my schedule when possible but sometimes it’s too much of an inconvenience. I have talked to him about it but of course he claims the runins are a coincidence or it’s to give me some magazine or my favorite chocolate.
I have been struggling with myself. Day to day it’s a different mood, anger, weepy, apathy. Sometimes I hate myself for being such a fool, for hurting my husband, for being so weak… I also feel at a loss because I know of this other woman but know I can’t warn her it makes me feel helpless that he may ruin her life. One day life will be normal again and hopefully I’ll be wiser.
Thanks for reading!
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 7:51pm
Wini says:
Welcome ANewDay: Yes, all our stories are the same … my Ex doesn’t work and lives off the women he sees, pretending to get a phony business off the ground. Why he doesn’t work … can’t show an income cause he owes his EX wife back child support payments. Yes, yes, yes, this guy invented a new mouse trap.
Peace.
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Wednesday, 22 October 2008 @ 10:32pm
Indigoblue says:
I am going to type this and see what you think
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Thursday, 23 October 2008 @ 9:46am
Indigoblue says:
It seems to me that the Female/mind is likly to be more DAMAGED by( it) than my smaller less active male pea! Ooops !Brian
~
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Thursday, 23 October 2008 @ 9:49am
jules says:
thanks for all your advice and i think we ll feel the same in this situation. i was just thinking about it all and a thought came to my mind and i thought i think he wishes he could love me but he doesnt know how and he thinks i betrayed him so he feels coming back or admitting he feels anything for me is giving in and he wont do that. i dont knowwhat hee thinks anymore really and i shouldnt care but a tiny bit of me does. anyway thanks for all your advice. he will find someone else, did seem strange he has started to hide his number first time has done that. will latch onto someone else he is working a a gym so he will probably find someone there, and then he wont call me again. anotheer funny thing he said was itold him i had gone off the pill as i had a tummy ache when he called i thought this could be why, he said why have you gone off the pill all curious, like its any of his bussiness anyway.i just said i want to llook after my body.
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Friday, 24 October 2008 @ 8:52am
Fighter says:
We heard that Ed Hicks has changed his name a couple times, tells new victims he’s “writing a book about the TRUTH”, that he plans to sue ‘Dr. Phil’, ‘Very Bad Men’ and has wives for telling LIES about him and it’s “false all false.” He’s back online trolling the online dating sites… goodness knows what names he’s using now.
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Saturday, 15 November 2008 @ 3:17am
Easy says:
Skylar
I brought this up for you!
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 4:46pm
skylar says:
thanks easy, You knew I needed this reminder.
As I was reading the comments, I remembered the time I was willing to stand up to a man who was abusing his wife while my P-brother-in-law, the cop with a gun, was going to just walk away until I made him look like a scared little girl.
Later, I told my P about it. Now I realize that he just used the information to assess me better. He realized that when confronted with violence, I don’t back down, so instead he used a different tactic: the appeal to my good nature with his pity ploy. Every time I turned around, he or my P-neighbors and my P-bil, (all of whom he had trained and was manipulating) would call “needing” something. They were having such a good time yanking my strings and watching me dance.
That’s ok, they never realized I only dance when it serves my purposes as well.
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 5:48pm
Easy says:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 8:44pm
Easy says:
Skylar
We are all Human! every single flaw! We are all beter because we have LF and real people who care!
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 8:47pm
skylar says:
Today, I was at the hardware store looking for something to fix a broken item. My P could fix anything. I started missing him so much. He is evil but he is a genious. An evil genious. It’s why he is so dangerous. I miss him. I shouldn’t miss him because the last few years, instead of fixing things for me, he would sabotage them. He cut my brake lines and jammed my engine thermostat. But I still remember how easily he could fix anything, make anything, solve mechanical problems the way you and I breathe.
I could pull up in the drive way and he would smell the air and say, “your engine is running too rich.” just by smelling it, he knew. Like a blood hound knows when someone has walked on a trail, he could smell the status of an engine.
When he was a baby he got spinal meningitis and almost died. His doctor said he would have brain damage. I wonder if that is when he became a P. Not being distracted by emotions, it’s possible that he developed his aptitude for mechanics instead – and for evil.
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 9:04pm
Easy says:
Skylar
Hitler was a genious! And evil at the same time!
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 9:09pm
justabouthealed says:
Just saw this anonymous quote and thought I would share it:
No man is worth your tears, but once you find one that is, he won’t make you cry.
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Friday, 11 September 2009 @ 10:25pm
henry says:
another anonymous quote – ‘he found me in my emptyness’
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Saturday, 12 September 2009 @ 2:17am
henry says:
or was it ‘ I found him in his emptyness’?
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Saturday, 12 September 2009 @ 2:57am
ErinBrockovich says:
Henry, the later was more appripot……
And you left him there too!
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Saturday, 12 September 2009 @ 3:38am