Sociopathic children and psychopathic traits during childhood
PDF This is a very tragic story left by one of our readers:
My daughter was misdiagnosed with ADHD. Then bipolar disorder, then Oppositional Defiance Disorder. I stormed out of her psychologist office when she told me that she saw something “dark” in my child. That was when she was 7. When she was 8, her sociopathy increased and she purposely drowned my poodle. She also tried to smother my baby by my second husband. The strain of her and my carrying the baggage from my last relationship has driven he and I apart and we currently trying to file for divorce.
She steals daily, has even stolen as much as $500 from my wallet. I lock things away, and she will simply pry open the lock, break the lock or disable locked windows so she can climb in for access to everything. My son sleeps with his father at night at his own home, while I sit here at night, catching her lurking through the dark, stealing whatever she can get her hands on (i.e., money, jewelry, food, perfume). If I try to discipline her, she simply runs off and screams to the top of her lungs “don’t kill me”, which causes the neighbors to call the police. Just this morning, I discovered money missing and brand new snacks I bought last night for the baby and all of us to share GONE. Every single day she steals. I have to sleep at night and when I do, she lurks in the dark, prying open things, destroying things.
It’s like if she is alone for a moment, she does something way over the edge. Like this morning, I caught her chopping blooms from cacti I planted with a mini shovel, I mean she looked like the LAST SAMARI. I am being victimized everyday and feel like she is the hunter in my home and I am the hunted. I have arranged for an IEP at her school and it is my goal to get her placed in a facility in Utah where they house and treat child psychopaths or excuse me, Oppositional Defiant children because liberal America will not allow her to be called what she truly is until she turns 18.
The issue of likely outcome is more difficult in child psychiatry than it is in any other aspect of medicine. Think for a moment, if a child has cancer and we know that 65% of children with this cancer die, what does that tell us about our particular child? I chose the number 65% because that is the percentage of conduct disordered teens that went on to develop antisocial personality as adults in one study.
When we consider studies of conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder and symptoms of psychopathy in children we have to consider that most of these studies are done on a special population of children that are being treated at University based clinics. So the information about prognoses we get is likely pessimistic. Sill not even these studies show that 100% of children with these symptoms have them into mid adulthood.
I would like to tell you about three children, I watched grow up. These children show us that we have to be careful about trying to predict adult personality function on the basis of what we see in a child.
The first child is a neighbor of mine. When she was 7 she was so fearful and shy that she refused to go on play dates. I spoke to her mother about this and her mother indicated that symptoms of anxiety tended to run in their families. Well, I saw that girl again at 14 and I can tell you she is “popular” and not at all shy. I asked her mother about what happened. Her reply was, “Yeh, she grew out of it.”
The second child is a boy who was a sibling of one of my daughter’s friends. At 7 he was a mess, very impulsive and easily angered. So much so he got into trouble in religious school. At 13 this boy is controlled and polite, a fine young man.
The last child is a boy I grew up with. I was always an animal lover. This boy’s behavior disgusted me because at 7 he captured lizards, stuck sticks through their mouths and killed them. He then put his kills in the street for cars to run them over. I hated that kid! Well, he did not grow up to be a psychopath. He is a loving husband, responsible father and business owner.
Video of 7 year-old Latarian
After introducing this background, I would like you to watch the video of Latarian Milton, a 7 year old who stole his mother’s car. (This video was recommended in one of our reader’s comments and I appreciate that.)
Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itgcNy3L_Xc This boy demonstrates for us what psychopathic personality traits look like in children. He shows no remorse and says he enjoys doing bad things. He doesn’t care about the consequences of his actions because for him the fact that he gets enjoyment justifies everything. The comments left on Youtube reveal that many people have one of two incorrect views of psychopathy in children. The first is that it can be cured by beating the child. The second is that it invariably leads to a disordered adult.
If there was only a 10 percent chance that a child’s cancer could be cured, most people would still advocate that the child get aggressive cancer treatment. The odds for disordered kids are at least that and yet many people say they should be written off and secretly believe they should either be euthanized or imprisoned for life.
What should be done to help psychopathic children?
Psychopathic children do have the same issues as psychopathic adults. Namely, their pleasure system is warped and their impulse control system is defective. The difference is that these two systems are more changeable in a child than they are in an adult.
Psychopathic children enjoy “being bad” (to quote Latarian in the video above) more than they enjoy anything else. What they need is to be taught how to enjoy loving human connections. If they can learn to enjoy loving, then they have a chance at developing a modicum of empathy and conscience. This is where our pessimistic view of psychopathic children can become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Studies show that the parents of such children often dislike them. The people who advocate writing off these kids do not help these parents. Parenting an at-risk child is the most difficult task many will ever have to face.
We have to support the parents of psychopathic children and encourage them to try to find something in the child they do like and can connect with. Psychopathic children require constant adult supervision and affectionate adult companionship.
Psychopathic children also need to be taught about the nature of impulses and morality. They need verbal lessons as well as real life lessons in the form of consequences. Studies show that when parents of psychopathic children dislike them, they often pull back and do not provide the consistent teaching of impulse control these kids need.
There is also another side to the prognosis coin. That is that many children who appear to be “normal” grow up to be psychopathic. I know this from two sources, scientific studies and people who write me. Dr. Hare has said the antisocial behavior that leads to sociopathy/psychopathy begins during childhood and adolescence. I agree with him, but the problem is that this antisocial behavior can take many forms. For example, lying, stealing and being aggressive toward a sibling are all behaviors that many sociopaths showed during childhood. Many children engage in these behaviors and so again we may consider them “normal.”
How can we prevent sociopathy in adults?
Behavioral science has revealed a great deal about what we can do to give all children the best chance. I was at a conference this week and one of the speakers noted that the State of California bases its estimate on the future need for prison space on the reading scores of children in 3rd grade! In addition to effective parenting, at-risk children need to have quality education. Right now our practice is to take troubled children and group them together for school. Not only do they all then get a substandard education, but they get to teach each other more antisocial behavior!
As a society, we are far from doing our best for psychopathic kids. Some children will develop disordered in spite of the best parenting and professional help. YOU WILL NOT KNOW IF YOUR CHILD IS IN THAT GROUP UNTIL YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM THE BEST PARENTING AND PROFESSIONAL HELP AVAILABLE. Medication may be necessary for some children. If you have done your best as parent and your child still has problems, forgive yourself. Rest assured that his problems would be much worse if you had not done your best.
I want to end with what I believe are the 10 attributes of effective parents:
Summary of Effective Parenting
- Effective parents are warm and empathetic.
- Effective parents reward good behavior.
- Effective parents establish clear rules and enforce them through limit setting.
- Effective parents model good behavior.
- Effective parents teach impulse control, respect and values.
- Effective parents surround their children with positive influences.
- Effective parents protect their children from entering into situations they won’t be able to handle.
- Effective parents teach age appropriate life skills.
- Effective parents have fun with their children.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
skylar says:
That is a fascinating description, one.
And yes, spaths make up words, don’t ever misunderestimate a spath….hmmm.
The word, “queeb” that my spath used, is a word he made up to mean “act scared”. Why would he make up a word for that emotion? because he is obsessed with creating fear in others just so he can watch it. He fixates on certain words and often times will morph it. He has a hard time understanding the concepts behind words, but he knows when he likes the “ring” of something. Like Cleckley said, “they know the words but they can’t hear the music”. They can’t quite grasp the emotional connotations of the words. How could he? he’s only two. Cleckley compares it to semantic aphasia, but I’m starting to think it should be considered MORE than just an analogy. Perhaps it’s a RED FLAG.
The idea of them as children isn’t really my idea. I first read it in, “why is it always about you?”. But I’m taking the idea and noting how well it describes what I’ve seen in my spath.
As you said, “from the perspective of child development”, the more I learn about it, the more it describes my spath.
There are other areas of study that seem to shed light on spath thinking, such as the study of primitive peoples. So much to learn, so little time!
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Ox Drover says:
I remember that story about the little girl, I think it was Creampuff’s daughter who did that (might have been Gem’s but I have CRS so bad!) LOL But yes, it is like the panic that the mother (whoever it was) felt in seeing the child out in the street with cars barreling down, I felt the same way, I felt like my child was standing in the street with buses and trains and trucks barreling down on him and he was just laughing at my panic. It was like he didn’t even SEE the danger. I actually don’t think he did see the danger.
And they don’t learn much from painful consequences either. I remember when I was little putting a bobbie pin into an electric plug in the wall, I SPARKED things up pretty good, but I NEVER DID THAT AGAIN. It was like he kept doing it over and over and over and never learned not to “stick bobbie pins in sockets”—even now, he doesn’t have any concept that HE is responsible for where he is or that HE IS A LOSER, he still feels like he is a WINNER, just temporarily down on his luck, my fault of course, but HE IS STILL SMARTER THAN ANYONE, and a success in life—because he conned an extra slice of bologna out of the con on the serving line and the guard didn’t catch him. Yea, a BIG SUCCESS, but that’s the way HE sees all these little “successes” in his life, like he is sooooo special. (head shaking here)
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one_step_at_a_time says:
i guess it doesn’t matter if you get sent to your room as long as you have the toy truck.
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Ox,
It must be so disheartning to give birth to a child that turns out to be an spath. SPATH’S ARE SICK PEOPLE!!!! They don’t get it!!! in life!!!! What do they miss out on? I loved my spath to an unbelieveable degree!
My sister went through and survivied a bad divorce where she lost custody of her own children. He is an spath!!!! I have had a reuionin with them… she is too much like her father… the spath. I love her and miss her… but red flags… she is too much like her father!!!!
I want to be close to her but.. she is too much like her father… mikeo, the pshco!!!!!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Notcrazee,
Yea, it is painful, but like a lot of things, if you work hard enough and give it enough time, it will heal.
No matter how much you love someone, if they are toxic, there is nothing you can do except accept it and move on with your life, and NC with them. I have finally come to realize that “BLOOD is not as thick as water.” Just because you are related to someone by blood doesn’t mean that they are good or that you have to associate with them.
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lesson learned says:
Ox…
I’ve been through hella lot lately. Recently dumped exSpath…recovering my my eldest son’s offenses, then healing…second son two and his trauma and subsequent healing…
But to see my son this way, kills me.
I’m pretty strong in some areas of my life, but when it comes to a man I love or my children and very close friends, it’s a different story.
Time will tell about son number 3. I’ve been tossing around some scenarious to get help for him again…but you’re right,it’s up to him, ultimately………
It’s just a very painful thing to deal with right now.
God Bless you all. And Merry Christmas to you and your families
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jlarue says:
I am so grateful for this site. People who have not experienced this can not understand. It is beyond their comprehension. When I found this site, I was desperate. I couldn’t get anyone to understand who or what this child was. It wasn’t until I found this site that I was able to hear and connect to people who have been through this or are going through it. I am finally free from my niece. She has not contacted me but my guards are way up. I had to accept long time ago that that little girl I loved to spoil was dead and this person who invaded my life was someone incapable of genuine emotions or feelings. I think that is very important in dealing with them. You have to separate the sweet infant from the monsters they have become. Grieve for what was lost and what could have been. Protect yourself and your other kids if there are any) from this monster.
Therapy:
The therapist we used was recommended because she was very good with teens…the best. However, that was normal teens with basic problems. It didnt included ( I think) sociopaths. We did get the bipolar diagnosis. Many times I was put on the defensive because of so many lies my niece would tell.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
jlarue – you articulate the separation process, aka the road to sanity, very well. I am sorry that you lost that child, but so glad that you found your own bearings again.
i think some therapists have the same problem we do, maybe even more so – they start out thinking there is good in everyone and that people can grow and change. none of us know what they are until we have no choice but to know.
keep your guard up – her showing up at church is a sign of ‘some’ stupid thing going on in her mind.
And have a good Christmas!
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jlarue says:
So quite. Where is everyone?
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Ox Drover says:
I’m in and out between working on my “piling system” to turn into a filing system.
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shabbychic says:
jlarue, maybe everyone is out at the after Christmas sales!
I’m glad you figured out what your niece is,
you’re right, once we comprehend what’s going on
and take steps to protect ourselves…
then the healing can begin.
I just wrote something about this last night,
how we can “shut down”, as quest said,
because these people are so different than we are
that we don’t “get” what’s going on and we can’t
process it in our mind because we don’t have the
correct knowledge.
Doesn’t make it any easier to grieve for a lost niece,
I know you must have loved her very much,
but it helps all of us to understand how critical
it is to accept “what is”. God Bless.
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jlarue says:
I discovered to day that the person my niece claimed beat her up and threatened to kill her is a friend on her facebook account along with the woman’s niece. We even went to court to get a peace order and it is still in affect. I wonder is there is any legal action I could take to get her thrown in jail? I am still paying the attorney’s fees for all of this stuff.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Jlarue,
The best thing I think you can do is to NOT STIR THE CHIT! No matter how we go about it, if we stir it it just makes the stink worse. NO contact, means don’t look at their face book, don’t read what they send, don’t don’t listen to the the voice mails. Just NO CONTACT of any kind, either directly or indirectly.
Your choice at the time was to spend the money to hire the attorney and get a peace bond on the other person, but your niece is the one who is choosing NOW to associate with her on FB, just the fact that you paid the money for the attorney doesn’t really make it any of your business NOW. DISTANCE yourself from your niece and ANYONE who has anything to do with her. I understand your frustration at having spent that money, but that was what you thought THEN was the right thing to do, NOW you realize you can’t help your niece and she is going to make her own road hard, but you can’t do anything to fix that. ((((hugs)))) and PEACE. NO CONTACT!!!
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jlarue says:
THANK YOU. I needed to hear that.
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jlarue says:
I am beginning to write a book about my experiences and one of the things I realize is that I was set up like a pedophile sets up his/her victim. There is a grooming process. I wonder how many have felt this way. I guess when you have no conscience, it is easy to set people up.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Jlarue,
I would say 100% of us, we call it the “love bomb” and that is between the time they are starting to groom us and when have us hooked enough that the abuse starts.
Any time you meet someone and they “love bomb” you or “friend bomb” you—–LOOK OUT! you have either met a psychopath or a Borderline Personality Disorder, they both frequently use the LOVE BOMB and other similar tactics.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
I wonder if one of the things that makes it hard for us to see the love bomb for what it is, is that is how kids and teens bond – ‘all-in’ from the get go. So, would that mean we have immature boundaries? Ummm, that sounds about right. And ‘immature’ boundaries in general are signified by undeveloped discernment.
our whole lives we are learning things and making decisions about what to let in our lives based on our experience and core beliefs (which is where I would say our betrayal/ trauma bonds sit); about what is acceptable to us and ‘good’ for us. for those of us who have been targeted by spaths at an early age, I’d say our trauma bonds probably trump most of what we learn as we develop our boundaries (especially at the deep level that spaths manipulate); and for those of us who didn’t experience this evil until later in life, I think it is our naïveté about the existence of evil that most affects our ability to discern what we are dealing with, and not let it into our lives. For most of us it is a combo of the two that makes us good targets. We have to heal both wounds/ weaknesses, AND sort the destruction left by the spath.
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shabbychic says:
one, well… you just described me to a “T”.
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Ox Drover says:
One, I think you just described exactly what we have to do.
Those CORE beliefs that we are taught at home and at school, either verbally or by example are MANY TIMES not true.
“It takes two to fight.” meaning that both parties must be wrong, (WRONG)
“There is good deep down in everyone” (WRONG)
“There are two (valid) sides to every story.” (WRONG)
“If you are good to people they will be good back to you” (WRONG in many cases)
“Parents ALWAYS do what is best for their children” (WRONG)
“Blood is thicker than water.” (WRONG)
“Families should always stick together no matter what.” (WRONG)
“Only people who go to our church are going to heaven.” (WRONG)
“You but always forgive (and trust) someone who asks you for forgiveness even if they are still doing that thing.” (WRONG!)
And so on…..there are hundreds of “core beliefs” that we are taught from birth that are the basis for what we believe and function under that are not necessarily true, or are even completely WRONG, yet it is difficult to figure out these beliefs because they have become “part of us” and our thinking and we base things we do and say and think on these core beliefs with “I know I SHOULD feel/DO_______, because______”
It is only when we become aware that these core beliefs are false that we can examine them and realize that they are wrong or twisted.
One of my core beliefs was that “Mama would never do anything to deliberately hurt me.” Everything I did in relationship to her was BASED on that core belief that nothing she did even if it hurt was DONE DELIBERATELY TO HURT ME. The day she actually told me she had DELIBERATELY HURT ME, lied and accused me of something she knew I wasn’t guilty of DELIBERATELY TO HURT ME, I was stunned. I had functioned on the CORE TRUTH that she would never deliberately hurt me, when in fact, she had done so many times but I had glossed over those things with the salve of “Nah, she wouldn’t deliberately do that to hurt me.” So I could ACCEPT the pain and since it was not deliberate (according to my filter “core truth”) I could continue to trust her.
Once I saw the TRUTH that she could and would and had deliberately hurt me, the things that she had done in the past to deliberately hurt me came in to sharper focus and I realized I had been seeing them through that “rosy filter glass” of my belief that she would not deliberately hurt me.
As long as I used that FILTER on everything she did, I got no critical feed back in my relationship with her to judge what was actually going on.
Examining our core beliefs and prejudices, the philosophies under which we function and judge events and other’s behaviors determines how we interpret what is going on in this life. How we respond.
For example, if someone you do not like slaps you on the shoulder very hard and knocks you down, and you break your arm, you are most likely MAD AS HECK. If however a friend slaps you on the back playfully and you fall down and break your arm you still have a broken arm, but you do not attribute MALICE to the friend, where you would probably attribute malice to the person you didn’t like that did the same thing.
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flowerpower says:
I know this is off topic but in a way it isnt. I have a psychologist involved to “monitor” our kids. It helps me to havea professional see their behaviors and sort out normal from red flags as they grow. They have strong genetics from the ex side for mental illness.
I dont read or post much on this blog but have received so much help when I do. Today I need advice. I have no contact in place except for this:
My ex and I see a psychologist together to “discuss” the schedule and any other problems related to our 3 children. The cost is split. These meetings accomplish very little.
I see that the ex refuses to communicate and basically “creates” problems to discuss in this forum; then does NOT follow thru to resolve the problems…that way we can “meet” again. This has ranged from putting kids in middle of situations to refusing to pay support. Some of these “problems” eventually get resolved but it takes repeated meetings to do so.
I have decided not to go along with this game further. It is humiliating, frustrating, costly and feeds the sickness. Basically it is the abuse repeated in a professionals office -and at my expense! Attorneys worked this one out between them at settlement.
Please advise how best to do this-I have 3 options:
1.the “everything” is fine option. No problems to discuss. Schedule will be emailed with a default date to respond.
2. straight up call it a game option. I am not playing anymore.
3. email the issues (right now it is providing insurance for children) and tell the psych. to handle this in a private meeting with ex. Not my issue since ex is court ordered to provide.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
flowerpower – are the sessions court mandated? if you don’t go are their legal repercussions?
i’d vote for door #3 – it achieves door #2 without having to say it, and potentially saves you a lot of hassle. (#3 sets a boundary without having to have a confrontation about his BS – which is not really the point; the point is, you want him to do what he is mandated to.)
Will the physchologist go for this? Does he/she know what he is? Could he/she mess things up in any way?
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one_step_at_a_time says:
oxy and shabby – will be back later tonight to respond! xo
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skylar says:
flower,
your description of your meetings reminds me of the meetings we had in our water association with the board members. The secretary was a board member for 12 years, as other board members came and went, so she would bring up old issues and ask the board to solve them but never actually finish. As new members came on the board, she would bring up the old issues as if they were new issues and continue the cycle…
I think meetings bring this out in lots of people. They feel like they are getting attention because they are important. So they go into a fantasy land and create issues to get more attention.
If I were you, I would choose #2. and explain to the psychologist that your P is just trying to get attention and create distractions. He is looking for a psychological reward that has no meaningful resolution for anyone but him. Once your psychiatrist sees this, you can both just give the P a dirty look and commence discussion of the real issues. When he stops getting his psychological reward, he will stop pulling the lever and pushing your buttons.
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flowerpower says:
thanks skylar and one-step:
Yes the mtgs are part of settlement agreeement signed off by court. I dont want to appear uncooperative..so I tend to want to set a boundary rather than a refusal. An if…then scenario.
I can email and say that if last issues are not resolved–even if new “problems” are there, then psych should meet alone with ex. since joint mtgs are not accomplishing the task.
This also makes it clear that:
1.there should be resolution in our joint mtg-ex is rewarded with another joint meeting IF problem is resolved (in this case, insurance provision)
2.I am not interested in rehashing old problems
3. ex is responsible financially for meeting alone and that plus not having me there might motivate resolution
thanks! will try it and let you know.
BTW-the psych. is in place to keep us out of court bc my ex threatened to “bleed me dry” there. He is very wealthy
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Flower,
I think you are right the “meetings” are his way of getting to you and continuing to make your life miserable. I think I would say, “There’s nothing to discuss–there IS NO PROBLEMS—the court already ordered him to pay the insurance, so I see no problem to resolve.”
You may end up having to go back to court if he continues to use this to get to you and make you appear “uncooperative” and that looks like what he is doing.
Maybe you can use that internet program here–can’t remember the name of it, but there is a thread about it on here—where everything is handled and timed over the internet, an schedules made and so it keeps no contact pretty much –FAMILY WIZARD? that might be the name of it.
Well, he might actually “bleed you dry” so that is another thing you have to figure in the deal. What a mess, I am sorry you are going through this drama-rama! (((hugs))) and God bless.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
i just have a few minutes before the last ‘friend’ standing shows up for dinner.
sigh.
when i met her she smoked pot. 8 months ago she ‘quit’, but i understand that she is smoking again. she was the lone person who gave a ratts butt about spathy, and actually read ‘the s next door.’
we have had some rough bits the last couple of months. i know, in part, it is do to a seasonal/ situational depression on her part; and to my PTSD. okay.
so she has been avoiding me a bit lately, and i have been feeling rejected. today, we made plans for dinner tongiht. while on the phone i heard an unusual sound comign from her place and i asked her what it was. she said, ‘a bong.’
o is for umbrella. I asked, ‘a what?’ couldn’t believe my ears. thought i had been very clear about not smoking dope when in conversation with me, or before meeting me.she can do what she wants, she just can’t do it and be around me.
she got defensive when i talked to her about it…oh yah, the sign of addiction. i am angry. i think this will be one of the last times we spend togehter. she said she’d take my ‘concern under advisement’. hell no! it’s a deal breaker for me.
another one bites the dust. sigh.
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jlarue says:
The only way to deal with an addict is to cut them out of your life..TOUGH LOVE…I too have lost many friends to drugs…some died and the others are still using.
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flowerpower says:
Oxy,
Isnt it interesting that setting a boundary of not going to meet with an uncooperative, noncommunicative, even threatening person is mandated by the court as being “in the best interests” of the children”?
I think the intent was for all of this to settle and reduce conflict. It actually gives the ex a forum to create it and I have to go there and “pretend” the conflict is absent. Remember that it takes 2 to fight? That is not true— when one side continues to fight, the other becomes the punching bag…
Drama it is…I shall go in an accept my oscar for acting like all is well. Meanwhile, no insurance, no respect and no one can make this person behave and that is very obvious. Maybe my next role will be as the disappearing person…
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skylar says:
One,
I understand that you did set a boundary and that you don’t like to be around drugs. but is there any particular behavior that you don’t like about this person when they are high? Some people act the same they are high as when they are not. Also I think that this particular drug is usually used as a coping mechanism for stress by people who have never learned other ways to cope. Perhaps it’s time to address what kind of stresses she is dealing with. Maybe she’s tired of hearing about socios. My BF very rudely told me for the upteenth time that he doesn’t like to hear about sociopaths every day. Well he has listened for over a year…but its on my mind 24/7 and takes up 95% of my brain processes so its bound to come out when I open my mouth. But it is a very dark and stressful subject for most people, so I can understand.
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jlarue says:
My niece was in therapy and she would drag me in there for something stupid. She would say that I didnt let her have friends when in fact she just wanted a bunch of boys to have sex with.
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ErinBrock says:
There is a statute of limitations on how long peeps will give an ear or ‘sympathy’ on others life issues.
Whethre it be illness or bad relationship or financial issues……
Even the best of friends don’t want to hear it after a short while…..it affects their lives and they get tired of being dragged down.
Like spaths do……we must ‘water down’ our life issues and healing between friends, learn to censor ourselves to certain ones……and just ‘pretend’ all is well in the presence of others.
I don’t know why this is…….but in my experience it just IS!
I know when my cancer treatments went on and on……..people would call and say…..i’m so glad your better…..as i had just had another treatment…..I just played along.
They’d be shocked when I would leave town for Houston, they would say…..well why are you going back there…….
Ummmmmmm…..for kicks?
People really don’t want to know! Other peeps lives tend to only be gossip after a while…..or a way to gage how well that person is doing….like….gee….glad I don’t have her life!
My cynical viewpoint for the day!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear EB,
Welcome back!!!! I agree with you most people don’t really want to know how you are REALLY doing. But my definition of FRIENDS is someone who will “mortgage their house and come with the money” when you call and say “I need you! NOW!” so anyone else is just an “acquaintance”–doesn’t mean they don’t care about you but they are just not going to INVEST big time in you. The FEW friends we have that we are INVESTED IN, that we would mortgage our houses for, those are the ones that are willing to listen forever. Those people are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.
The cyber-friends we have here listen because we are all INVESTED in the SAME interest, healing and learning. My best friend and I are there for each other whatever the problem. She was there for me when my step dad was dying, when my husband was killed, when P son went to prison, when I went through all the carp! I was there for her with her paralyzed son and we’ve been like sisters for 30+ years, but you know, there are not many people like her in the world. We only lived near each other for 3 years and since then there has been between 350 and 1,100 miles between us, but we talk on the phone, e mail and visit frequently, we stay part of each other’s lives. We like the same things, and get interested in each other’s hobbies and families and friends. She has seen my kids go from teenager to adults, been there for the robberies, and the murder, the heart ache of deaths and the joys of successes.
I cherish those kinds of friendships, and the rest I just realize they are not deep or committed relationships that will endure as long as I live. They are kind of here today and gone tomorrow and based more on something like living near me, or kids went to school together, or worked together etc. but not deep commitment.
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ErinBrock says:
My bear is here to stay…..apparantly!
Last evening….i was in my office and I am hearing loud thumping……the censor light didn’t trip, but the noise conitnued…..
(just kidding!).
After a bit, I got up and looked out the window….nothing.
Noise contiued.
I go to the top level……look out the kitchen window…..and low and behold…..theres that damn bear….SITTING ON THE 3rd level corner DECK RAIL…..got one foot dangeling and scratching his crotch! He’s just hanging out on the DECK RAIL????????
I’ve never seen anything like it……its about 30 ft. off the ground…..and NO EGG NOG available…..he’s just perched there checking out the world.
Kids and I were CRACKING UP!
Jr tried to take a pic…..but his flash didn’t work.
So…..I think I may have created an issue with this guy…..he likes it here!
I’m going to have to have a conversation with Mr. Mr……and let him know….i don’t mind him visiting…..but next time OPEN THE GATE…..Don’t just SMASH RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF IT!!!!! And btw…..the gate also won’t hold your weight if you try to step over it either!!!!!! I’ve got a smashed/collapsed gate on the deck now!
Tonight…..I’m going to place a salmon at my neighbors house……get him to go next door and hang!
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skylar says:
EB
we warned you!
You have to take counter measures just like you would a spath. Put out food with hot Capsicum pepper and hope he doesn’t develop a liking for it. Once bears find good food they make themselves at home
. Only several consecutive bad experiences will untrained them.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear EB,
I would call the game and fish people and have them trap him, because he can and very well may do some SERIOUS damage or hurt one of you guys or Holly. Sky is right, he has learned there is food there SOMETIMES so he will continue to wait for the next serving time.
BEARS are Narcissistic ALL the time and can be dangerous to boot!@
I fed an egg sucking dog a pepper laced egg once and he licked his chops and asked for more, so I’m not sure that hot pepper effects them like it does us.
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jlarue says:
ok a bear, sitting on a fence scratching himself…lol..lol…lol…lolTOO FUNNY…LOL
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jlarue says:
LOL…STILL LAUGHING…LOL
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Ox Drover says:
I just went back and tried to watch the video in this article and it is “blocked” by Hearst TV for copyrights…bummer.
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Hey EB,
Although the bear situation could be dangerous and you do need to be careful… I am ROTFLMAO at the way you verbalize your bear stories. Sounds like my xspath after the bait and switch on me. scratching his crotch and looking for food!!! LOLOLOLOL
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jlarue says:
LOL…LOL
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ErinBrock says:
Oxy….these bears are ‘humanized’……I taught him that I got good food here…..I’ve been throwing rocks at him and making it uncomfy…..got some amonia spread around, just didn’t realize i’d need to put it 3 flights up on the RAIL!
The bear Non Profit peeps said to keep doing what i;’m doing…..and let him know i’t my territory.
I can’t have him trapped……NO WAY! I won’t call DOW, they’ll kill him off……they say they relocate…..but they don’t.
I don’t mind him hanging in the culvert down by the road…..just not on my deck.
Black bears are not known (although perfectly capable) of hurting humans around here…..they are scared of us, but want a free meal…..so i just gotta treat him like spath and let him know THIS IS MY TOWN homey!
I’ll be on bear watch tonight…..got my bucket of rocks handy and i’ll test my aim.
I’ll let Holly off after him too…….no cubs around, so he’ll run and not swat at her…..she may get as far as the egg nog snow spot and hang there…..and share it with the bear……that’s as far as she has gotten all week when I let her out. She runs off over to his dining spot and licks! We watered it down to dilute….but, like the bear, she knows it’s there!
Diversion tactics will continue.
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ErinBrock says:
NCZ;
Yep….it was quite a sight! Perched up there taking care of business.
God knows what he was thinking…….Gee….great view, got some cookies today?
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jlarue says:
LOL..I JUST NEED A PICTURE OF THIS…ITS TOO FUNNY..Seriously, he’ll get bored or enjoy the show.
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
EB,
ROTFLMAO!!!! I have a heart for the animal also. I hate it when they kill alligators down here. The only reason the gaotrs are in the peoples backyard is becuase the people built a subdivision in the gators living room. There is darn literally no where else to build down here. The Everglades have shrunk and now that they did all that there is some kind of deal with the state for restoration of the glades. That is how they kept the construction industry down here going for so long. Let’s build another city over here… etc. The wildlife are the one’s that pay for it in the end.
NCZ!
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
Although gators aren’t as entertaining as your Yogi!
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
EB,
I agree with with “j”. You need to get a good pick and have Donna give you my email addy!
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ErinBrock says:
I’ll tell ya…….WHATEVER damage he does…..will NEVER compare to spaths damages……
I’d take a 400lb black bear ANY DAY! Shiat…..even invite him in.
Hey….maybe I should continue feeding him…….feed him good…….(i;ll wait for spring though)…..make good friends with him, build him a comfy, padded ded….enclosed of course, with blankets and bedding, pillows and a welcome sign and his own stocked fridge………..and when spath comes to dig up the yard……he’ll be greeted by my buddy…..the well fed, territorial bear!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear EB,
Try some PINE SOL water (pretty strong) poured over the egg nog snow area.
Does Junior have a “wrist rocket” sling shot? He can put some STING on those rocks you are flinging if he tries, a lot more than just tossing them.
We have black bears around here too, they are the same thing as yours and when they get humanized and unafraid of humans they become a pest and a danger to property and livestock.
When I butchered cattle (with the long horns) I hung the heads in the trees over in the woods to let the meat rot off so I could have the cleaned skulls, the local bear here began to climb the trees and cut them down, and destroy the heads to get to the brains. She got to coming up in the “yard” area as well, and I think it was the same one that was eating dog food on the back porch of my cousin’s house….so they get pretty gutsy. I did find out though that they do like FRESH meat, not rotten meat, thank you.
I wouldn’t have any problem killing it, I’m kind of territorial that way! LOL So far my score this year is 6 possoms and 1 skunk! But the skunk sprayed the dog, so I guess the score is 7 to 1 in our favor. So far the ducks are still all alive and the barn cat is not coyote food yet, so I guess we are ahead of the game!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
EB – tie a salmon around one of the spath’s trojans!
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soimnotthecrazee1 says:
LOLOLOL@ One!!! Here comes that sense of humor!
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