After the sociopath, hard-learned truths
PDF Before I became entangled with the sociopath, I was an avid consumer of self-help books and programs. Although I was successful in my career, I could not get the relationship thing to work. This, of course, was the vulnerability exploited by the sociopath I married, but I get ahead of myself.
In my quest for answers—Why was I alone? Why couldn’t I find love?—I once participated in a weekend seminar called “Understanding Yourself and Others.” After some initial skepticism, I found the program to be helpful. One of the things I remember from the weekend is a pithy little motto:
“The truth will set you free—but first it will piss you off.”
In reference to sociopaths, truer words were never spoken. When we finally learn the truth about these people, after months, years or decades of deception, we are hurt—but we are also enraged. Then, as we try to dig ourselves out of the hole, we learn more infuriating truths about the inability of other people in our lives, and of society’s institutions, to help us. Let’s take a look at what we learn.
Truths that make us angry
1. The sociopath never loved us. We were used. He or she wanted our money, or sex, or a place to live, or business connections, or a family to make him or her look normal, or whatever. All the promises of eternal love were bald-faced lies. We were supply, that’s all. They toyed with our hearts, and we are furious.
2. Other people just don’t understand. Those who have been lucky enough to avoid entanglements with sociopaths cannot fathom how we fell for it. They don’t comprehend the elaborate deception, the psychological manipulation and our inability to extract ourselves. We hear, “Just get over it already,” and are angry at the callousness of people who say they are concerned for us.
3. Credit card companies don’t care that we’ve been defrauded. The con artists talked us into paying their expenses or giving them money. Unless we can prove identity theft, the credit card companies don’t care how many lies he or she told. Even if a court finds the sociopath guilty of fraud, we’re stuck with the bills—which is patently unfair.
4. Legal authorities cannot cope with sub-criminal sociopaths. Unless the sociopath commits murder or robs a bank, chances are slim that law enforcement will take action. Fraud and domestic violence charges are difficult to prove, so they often don’t get investigated. But even if the police do take action, much of it is undone in the courts. Between manipulating the legal system and lying under oath, sociopaths rarely get the punishment they deserve. Sometimes they actually get away with murder, and we are fit to be tied.
5. Media images of sociopaths are wrong. On television and in the movies, sociopaths are equated with The Sopranos and psychopaths are portrayed as Hannibal Lecter. Some disordered people are, in fact, demented murderers and serial killers, but the vast majority of them are not. By promulgating myths and not reporting reality, the media do a tremendous disservice to everyone. As a trained journalist, this one really pisses me off.
Truths that set us free
6. Evil exists. Many of us got into our predicaments because we did not realize that human beings are capable of the evil that sociopaths perpetrate. Now we know, and knowledge is power. We know to be on the lookout for these predators, so that we do not fall into their traps again.
7. Our intuition knows better. Most of us felt something was wrong with the predator early in the game. We got the tickling in the brain, the twisting in the stomach, telling us to get out. But we let the sociopaths explain away our concerns. Now we know—when it comes to protecting ourselves from evil, our instincts are usually right.
8. We cannot save the sociopath. Sociopaths do not seek treatment. But suppose, due to a court order or fear of losing their gravy train, they do submit to medication or therapy. Suppose the treatment makes them 50 percent less abusive. That’s still 50 percent too much abuse for a healthy relationship. No matter how hard we try to save them, sociopaths are incapable of empathy or love. Adult sociopaths will not suddenly develop a conscience. So we can put down the burden of rescuing them, because it is not possible.
9. We must learn discrimination. An important meaning of the word “discriminate” is “to distinguish accurately.” Our mission in life is to learn when to say yes, and when to say no, so that our decisions support our wellbeing. We cannot abdicate this decision to others, even to people in authority. Some of them are sociopaths. Even if they aren’t, the people in charge do not always have our best interests at heart.
10. We are responsible for our own healing. We’ve been exploited, injured, used, and now we are struggling to overcome the pain. But where did the pain actually begin? There may have been some vulnerability or desire within us—something as normal as wanting to be loved. Somehow we felt we were lacking, and that gave the sociopath an opening. He or she ripped open our hearts, and whatever old wounds were hidden in them. Now we must look within, force ourselves to take stock of everything that’s there, and heal. Even when we have support, it is a lonely journey that we must undertake ourselves. But it is the journey that truly sets us free.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
lostingrief says:
I’m concerned that he will tell all of our friends that our demise was my fault. His family — which knows he’s got issues — will side with him naturally, but since I’ve known them all for more than 20 years, I have problems with this.
Ultimately, I ask myself — Does any of this matter at all!??!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Lostingrief,
Welcome to the healiing place Donna has provided for us all. You are at the right place, I am just sorry you have suffered enough to “qualify” for needing to be here.
Your question “does any of this matter at all?”—the answer is yes and no.
He will smear you, that is so frequent it is called “the smear campaign” and he will try to divide your friends and family to “his side.” He will try to convince others that you are crazy, evill and all of the above. Does it matter? It matters as much as you allow it to. He may rip away your eitire family and most if not all of your friends, your children, your boss, your neighbors—-but the ONE THING he CANNOT TAKE is YOU. He may rip you down naked, but he can’t take YOU.
After the persecution is all said and done, some of these people may see the light, some may never see it, and then it is up to you to decide which,if any,of these people you want back in your life. With the vendictive Ps there is usually a lot of collateral damage to be expected. It’s difficult, it’s miserable, but hold your head high and as much as you can, stay FIRM IN YOUR TRUTH. You may be the ONLY one who knows the truth, but that doesn’t make it any less TRUE. (((hugs))))
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alohatraveler says:
LostinGrief,
Sometimes, silence is the best thing. Fighting back gives them more fuel and more words to twist.
I am sure the family can see him a little more clearly that you think… especially with all the babies everywhere. That’s not normal.
It helps to give up winning. Winning being having everyone on your side and believing you. That will be a long road and it will take too much energy. And, worst of all, it will keep you engaged in his lies and head games. More than a few of us have been called a “stalker” by these guys when we were talking to others and trying to clear out name.
This is hard to stomach, for sure. They just have an uncanny ability to spin things. I have heard it called “Distortion Campaign” which I am sure is the same at the Smear Campaign.
The thing is, there is nothing that will make you feel more crazy than arguing with a madman. He’s a madman. Let him go and focus all your energy… ALL YOUR ENERGY… on you. You deserve your own loving care. Okay?
Aloha
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Taken for a ride says:
I never dreamed of doing a backround check on the woman i fell in love with, but after being with this evil cold hearted person, i think it is the only way to have piece of mind, sad it has to be that way, but i had one year of hell and the next time i walk down the isle it will hopefuly be the last.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Lostingrief,
Aloha’s advice, as usual, is great. You can’t fight a mad man and they sure as heck don’t “fight fair.” Silence is the best “gun” and you retain your dignity. I tried to argue with my family whenn the P was smearing me, and believe me, I WAS crazy, and they all decided I was mentally ill or had some kind of brain tumor. I was trying to “protect” her from the Ps stealing from her etc.—didn’t work, they did steal, but fortunately went to jail. So, ultimately I was vindicated as the ONLY sane one! But still not everyone is that fortunate. But hold your head us, and like Aloha said, Just don’t “dignify it with an answer.” Good luck!
Taken for a ride, background checks can turn up a lot of interesting stuff—unfortunately they don’t turn up too much on financial since all this privacy thing unless they ALLOW you to do a credit check, but if they won’t allow you, that in itself is a RED FLAG isn’t it.??
Unless you have known the person your entire life it’s probably a great idea. I’ll incorporate that into my future plans if I ever date anyone else again.
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lostingrief says:
alohatraveler, oxdrover, et al … thank you all so much for your encouragement. but this blew me away: “More than a few of us have been called a “stalker” by these guys when we were talking to others and trying to clear out name.” AMAZING! I remember now he once said, when i was pleading for the TRUTH, that I was “like a fatal attraction bi#%h.” But you’re all right. Not another ounce of energy should be wasted on him. I’m still wondering where he is, if he’s really happy or not, wishing he’d call so I can have the last word, wanting some minor revenge so I can not feel quite so … uh … PLAYED!
Funny thing: All my friends knew he was like this. But his friends, who either want to be like him (men) or be with him (women), will most likely side with him. He’s the celebrity around here. I’m just — as he said — ”someone who did some stuff for me.” Boy, I wish I had even the time I spent waiting for him to show up (usually 1-1/2 hrs late) when he said he was on his way. Just that would give me a year of my life back. Okay, I’m rambling. Thanks to you all for understanding.
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henry says:
Thinking Out Loud – I never was much of a computer nerd. Didn’t spend much time on this thing. I don’t know how to copy and paste or find a file or a document. I have never text messaged anyone on my cell phone – don’t know how and don’t want to. I do know how to google! And now I know what blogging is. I got my first computer in 2000. I thought OK now I am going to get on gay.com and find me a man. That was a big joke. I learned real quick that is not a place to find a ltr (long term relationship) I never knew there were so many (topic’s) and (fetishes). With the internet the younger generation will never know what life was like without it. Oh the internet is a wonderful thing, but not for me. I want to live like I did before technology moved into our homes. Sound’s simple minded – but I prefer life that way. I want to work in my yard and listen to nature. Going to get me some chicken’s again – I prefer bantum’s. I want to go fishing with my son’s. Watch every sunset I can, I only have so many left to watch. Sunrises , well I miss most of them – oh well – I am a nite owl. I have learned a valuble lesson here. There are people, even our parent’s, children or spouse or lover’s or friend’s that will take advantage of us. They will use us to their benifit and discard us when we have no more to give. And we suffer so much when we are discarded. I know who really love’s me – I don’t have to second guess that. That is the kind of love that I want to nourish. It will be those people holding my hand when I take my last breath. I just don’t think it is in the star’s for me to have (a) soulmate. I have many soulmate’s. I have been obsessed with my experience with Mike. It’s been totally unhealthy emotionally – physically – and mentaly. Why has it affected me so much? Because GOD has given me an opportunity to open my eye’s and grasp at the goodness in every day every moment. I know I am a good person with good value’s and moral’s. I have to love the people that love me – not the people that use me. And I will never give another man more of me than I am willing to lose. I am not going to become a recluse. I am going to me again and I am excited about that. There is nothing wrong with me – I know that now that I have learned to avoid bad people…
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peterparker says:
I found out, far too late, that my wife had a history of defrauding men. I also found out he’s not alone.
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peter
Maryland Drug Treatment
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peterparker says:
I think that my girl friend is a love fraud but once a day i went to the other place and i didn’t came back for more than ten days on that time my friends says that on that time she started asking about me to my friends and she was crying every day on that time onwards she loves me like no one else
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peter
Maryland Drug Treatment
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OxDrover says:
Dear PeterParker
Sorry about your wife being an abuser and a fraud. I am afraid I don’t understand your second message, though, about your girl friend–fraud or not? I hope not, but just didn’t understand your message.
Welcome to LoveFRaud, there is lots of learn here.
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henry says:
peter parker = don’t be shy here, just keep talkin and reading and you will learn alot about your self……and bad people
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henry says:
oxy my last day to blog at random = after this it will be occasionally. Just wanted to ask u something – when i saw the new physciatrist, after talking to him for almost two hours and trying to put a life time of my history in those 2 hours, he said yes you have been through alot, and then he said it sounds like chronic depression does that mean i have been depressed my whole life?
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OxDrover says:
Henry, I just lost a 10-page response to your question. I have to go back to work nright now but will rewrite it and post it tonight. So look for it. ((hugs))))
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Blindsided says:
I apologize, in advance, for the length of this missive and any redundancies you may find. Before I begin, like so many others, I must say that finding this web site has been very helpful. I am not sure that this is the right “place” in the blog to post (for the first time) my feelings and experience. I have found that every area has a little piece of me and my story. I feel a sence of empathy and angst from most of the stuff I have read. It is a wonderful outlet.
“People do not get it”… “Rumination is not easy to get over”…”Hard learned truths”…”I cannot talk to most people about this”…”How do I forgive (& forget)” etc. –they all ring true with me.
However, I have not found one to be like mine. In fact, both of the marriage counselors that attempted the “emergency, triage, rescue” of our marriage said: “Yours is, undoubtedly, one of the very meanest and cruelest (and sad) cases we have ever dealt with.” These 2 doctors had a, combined, 60 years of marriage counseling experience between them. They were not prone to hyperbole. I realize this is not a contest – I just seek opinion and empathy and fellowship – just like everyone else. I have inferred that a majority of the contributors are women. I am a man. Also, what my spouse did to me and our 3 children was sudden — no, previous,years of psychotic behaviour. But wait…
What happened to me has made the papers in our city because of my ex-wife’s bizzare behaviour. I apologize for the length that I think is about to spew out of me. I will try to give the, “Cliff Notes” version to keep it as short as possible. I also ask that you accept what I say here at face value. It is so bizzare and freaky that I, literally, would have bet my right hand if someone would have predicted what my ex-wife did begininning in July, 2006. Even writing this is difficult. It is something out of a Franz Kafka novel.
I married “Sherri” in 1998. She had 2 children, a 4 year old boy & an 8 year old girl. I also had an 8 year old daughter and instant step siblings were created. It was a fantastic family and a fantastic marriage; I loved her and she loved me deeply. By every estimate and every opinion of,virtually, everyone — Ours was considered to be a strong, loving, giving marriage and we were best friends and lovers. She would have walked on glass for me and vice versa.. I raised her boy and girl as mine and she was step-mother to my daughter as well. The two step-sisters were inseperable and shared the same bed and went to school together for 10 years – graduating in 2007. I had brought “Sherri” into our small, affluent community. I had lived in another home here with my first spouse. I introduced her to the community and she was welcomed and became part of the community. We travelled around the world and she only had to work if she chose to. That was 25% of the time. I always earned enough to support us in a comfortable life style.
Then it all happened:
November of 2005 I had to (suddenly) begin chemo – for 52 weeks. Fortunately I had a very lucrative disability policy which allowed us to live in our beautiful home and not go bankrupt.
Sherri was also working at that time and travelling (in the company car) over a 4 state sales region. She was gone 3 to 5 days a week and never had to be my caretaker while I was on my back during chemo. She was earnng $85,000 at this time.
June of 2006 she came home at 10:00a.m., in her company car, and found me in the bathroom – vomiting from that day’s chemo treatment and announced: “I just quit my job and have met a (28 year old tatoo artist- she’s 46) at a bar 2 days ago that I love and I tried to steal $28,000 from our bank account — but they stopped me.” Something was obviously wrong.
As part of my chemo treatment, I was seeing a Pschologist and a Psychiatrist — they routinely prescribed the, anti depressants that chemo neccessitate. They also provided counseling on a weekly basis as part of my insurer’s, “Chemo Management Plan.” They had know me very well by this point and asked that I bring Sherri in to see them — immediately. After 14 visits (several with both Doctors in the same room) over a 10 day time span, Sherri was diagnosed as having the following:
“Sudden onset bi-polar – with a personality disorder, with metalogical to pathological tendencies” They suggested that, with proper medication and therapy she could, quite possibly, come back into the real world. It was not to be. She went into total denial, declared that there was nothing wrong and would not need any treatment of any kind. When told that they were advising me to divorce her as I could not fight cancer and her simultaneously, she replied, “I don’t give a F***!” A den mother and social committee volunteer! At this point I had lost 42 pounds from the chemo. At times my health was so fragile that it was really touch and go. I sure could have used her support then – but it was not be. It was the exact opposite. The battle plans of a crazed woman were launched. That what she did (in comparison to her, life long, behaviour) is so beyond normal experince I can barely describe it.
She began drinking, doing drugs and staying out all night. I would get the (3) children off to school – and she would be gone for 2 days! Remember, I was on chemo at this time! When I asked her, “Did you think you were going to quit your job, live off of my disability check and have an affair with this 28 year odl?” She answered, “Yes, yes I do.” A week later I filed for divorce.
After filing for divorce, I rented her a home 1 block away from ours so she could move there with her kids and they could finish the school year. The 28 year old boyfriend moved into her rental home that very same day! Imagine, my step-children had a complete stranger “replace” me on day one! I did not realize she would (in October, 2007) marry the 28 year old and purchase the home. That is correct, she lives 1 block away with the (unemployed) tatoo artist in our tiny, gated, community. I am forced to see them daily.
2 weeks after moving out of my home, she snuck over and stole my 2 dogs. When we separated, I let her take 99% of the furnishings; I was in a big, empty, house by myself. We had agreed upon separating that I would kep the dogs; she renged and announced, “I have changed my mind.”
She stopped all communication between her 2 kids and myself. I have not seen nor spoken to them in 2 years. She stopped all communication with my daughter (“Sherri” was her step-mother for 10 years)! When I told her that “Rachel” missed her and was hurt and puzzled that Sherri went incommunicado, Sherri replied, “F*** Rachel!” When the psychologist suggested that the children not be used as “Pawns” — Sherri replied, “They are my pawns to use as I like.”
But it got worse — much worse.
Shortly after separating and moving one block away, it became known that Sherri had ask her boyfriend to put a “hit” on me. Yes, she was caught (via e-mails) of hiring someone to kill me. When we went to court, the judge yawned, acted annoyed and refused to do anything other than issue a restraining order which read (in part): “Sherri shall not engage in threatening conversations nor share private information with others (regarding her husband)” That is it! Nothing more. Sherri dramatically ripped the restraining order to pieces in the, courthouse, parking lot and said to me and my attorney, “F*** you.”
Then the lies, defamation, slander and character assasination began in ernest. Over the course of the next 15 months, Sherri worked earnestly at telling every neighbor, friend or aquaintance that would listen, the following:
1) Ken was diagnosed with: “Sudden onset bi-polar – with a personality disorder, with metalogical to pathological tendencies” (BTW, the psychologist predicted she might do this – claim that I had the very same mental disorder she was diagnosed as having).
2) Ken is a, Mafia, hitman (I am in the financial sevices industry).
3) She and her children had to seek shelter at the center for battered women.
4) Ken is a (CIA like) computer hacker that traced and tracked anybody’s phone calls or e-mail messages at will.
5) Ken is not on chemo, he is away at (heroin) re-hab in Phoenix Arizona.
6) She told neighbors that if they did (financial planning) business with me, that I would steal their personal identity information and purchase homes around the U.S with their credit.
Incredibly, there were neighbors and (a few)friends that actually believed her story. As absurd as it sounds and contrary to everything they knew about me for 15+ years — I learned that there are “friends” in this world that prefer “dirt” to the truth. To say she cleaved our small community would be an understatement.
After 6 months of this, and many letters from my attorneys asking that she cease and desisit spreading lies — we had to haul her back into court. Once again, the judge took no real action. He issued another restraining order which said (in part): “Sherri shall stop spreading lies about Ken.” That is all. He never did seem to care and had an attitude of disdain. She also tore that restraining order to shreds in the parking lot of the courthouse and said to me and my attorney, “F*** you.”
Remember, I was still on Chemo at this point, spending what ultimately turned out to be $22,000 in attorney’s bills (just for myself) – to divorce this woman. I was extremely week and had neither the will nor the strength to go out and “counter” her lies.
In January 2007, I took an 18 day trip to Costa Rica. The chemo had ended 60 days earlier (it worked – I am alive and healthy). Upon returning, I had a sherriff knock on my door and hand me a document stating I had to be in court the next morning (January 19, 2007) at 8:00a.m. for an, “Emergency ex-parte stalking / abuse / restraining hearing” Sherri, in her own handwriting, went to the courthouse and swore out a complaint stating that I had come to her home on 6, different, occasions. Specifically, January 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th, 12th and the 15th. When we went to court, my passport and airline tickets showed that I was near the equator (in Costa Rica) from December 30th (2006) to January 17th (2007). Obviously, everything that Sherri claimed was a total lie. The judge did not grant her the (stalking) order. When my attorney asked that she be held in contempt of court for blatantly lying – the judge said “No.” When my attorney’s asked that my legal fees be paid by Sherri due to her, obvious, lies and the time wasted in court — the judge said, “No.” BTW, men getting shafted in court vis a vis divorce — is par for the course in my state. In the parking lot of the courthouse she, once agan, screamed “F*** you.”
Oh, have I stated that she went completely, 100%, incommunicado since the day she moved out. She has only spoken to me once. And, as I said earlier, Sherri cut off all communication between me and the children. She also forbade her kids from speaking with my daughter — their step-sibling of a decade. That is just, plain, cruel.
The divorce was finalized in, August, 2007. But the pathological lying continued, unabated. Finally, I had no choice but to file a libel / defamation & slander lawsuit against my ex-wife — and her homeowners insurance company (under the, liability, portion) Farmers Insurance. In March of this year they paid me a large amount of money to drop the case. She also had to sign a letter allocuting to all of her lies and had to give me the two dogs back (which she had stolen 18 months earlier).
It would be so much easier if I had 10+ years of an awful marriage; this simply would have been the end of a bad thing. But, that was not the case; we had nothing but great times and true love. THAT IS WHAT MAKES THIS SO HARD. It was sudden, unexpected and so very violent in her utter silence and going incommunicado.
10 days prior to her, personality, disorder surfacing, Sheri gave me a card in which she had written the following words: “If God were sitting next to me now I would thank him for sending you to me. You have been a wonderful husband and the most perfect (step) father I could have ever wished for my kids.” This type of letter from her was quite common and I felt the same way. When we were talking to the psychologist, he asked: “Sherri, 10 days ago you wrote these words to Ken. What happened in the intervening 10 days?” She could not answer; she would just stare out of the window and say, “are we done yet?”
And all of you are correct, nobody wants to hear about this. Most people say, “…just get over it.” Or, “after 2 years, are you still talking about this shit?” Or, “I can’t believe that; there are always 3 sides to a divorce, his side, her side and the truth.”
I never got to tell ‘em my side. I never got closure.
The Doctor’s called the multiple traumas I experienced, “Shakespaerean trauma.” I guess because it was so sudden and dramatic:
1) I was extremely ill and on chemo.
2) My spouse became (mentally) ill.
3) We were forced to divorce and our family destroyed.
4) When the chemo ended – I was unemployed; my job had been eliminated.
Four, major, traumas hit over a short period of time and I survived. Both psychologists said that there was one piece of good news. I, they said, am an “extremely strong” individual. They have had patient’s suffer nervous breakdowns and become hospitalized — who had less trauma than me.
It has taken me two weeks to write this. I must stop somewhere. And I haven’t even got to describe how women react when I date them — and they ask about my divorce. Thank you for listening and any comments appreciated.
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kat_o_nine_tales says:
Blindsided… WOW, every time I think we’ve heard it all here, a story unlike any other comes along. That must have been just indescribable for you. I have heard of stuff like that happening but never to anyone I know, at least while I’ve known them.
Welcome to this blog, you’ll find supportive friends here. Stick around.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Blindsided,
WOW! Is all I can say, but I do absolutely believe you 100%, your story is about as bizarre as my own, and I am sorry that anyone else has had such a sudden run of “bad luck.”
My first husband became suddenly Bi-polar and his father was a psychopath so he ended up with the help of his parents leaving me in the middle of a move to another town, when I got to the new house for signing the closing papers, he wasn’t there and the agent informed me ‘HONEY, HE IS DIVORCING YOU.” Have a nice day. I was left destitute and literally homeless with my two kids and the cat. (I had to get a court order to get the dog back from my inlaws, and the dog they gave me was NOT my dog, just one of the same breed.)
I’m so sorry you have experienced such hell on earth. It sounds like your wife was in a big manic state when she did all this. My husband had apparently been bi-polar for a long time, but just never had a big mania before. I didn’t see it coming either, but looking back our “perfect marriage’ had some “red flags” that I would have seen NOW, but at the time didn’t at all.
There is a correlation with psychopathic personality disorder and bi-polar according to Dr. Leedom and the research she has posted on here, so you might read some of that. She might very well have been able to “hold it together” until the mania hit. Mania makes them do some strange things that you would not have ever predicted.
My guess too is that her new BF is also personality disordered and is using her for a “sugar mama” so the relationship will probably fizzle out sooner or later with her turning on him like a mad badger as well.
It seems sometimes like when we are “down” (like you were with the chemo and cancer) that “everything in the world” falls in around us at the same time, sort of “kicks us when we are down” so to speak.
Don’t worry about how long your post was, it is obvious that you have a lot to say. If they kicked you off this blog for long posts I would have been gone a LONG TIME AGO@!
“Shakespaerean trauma” sounds like a great name for the train that hit you—with every box car on it! At least you do have therapists that “get it” and many don’t.
You have come to a great place for healing, so make yourself at home, and stay around a while, as Aloha says, and read and learn everything you can about this personality disorder. Even though your X also has bi-polar that doesn’t exclude her from developing psychopathic traits if not full blown psychopathic personality disorder. It is obvious that she is cruel and hateful toward you and your children, and using lies to seek “revenge” against you for whatever it is that she has decided you need to be “punished” for.
I’m also sorry that she lives in your neighborhood. I know that a sense of community is important and few of us have a community outside of LF that really “do get it”—how horrible the trauma is, not just a “nasty divorce” but a visitation from SATAN him/herself.
The fact that you have survived so many traumas in such a short period of time speaks volumes for your strength and good sense! Good for you! Hang on to that strength and take care of YOURSELF and your daughter. Welcome to LF, it is a SAFE place here, and there are lots of wise people here who will be here to support you. Feel free to post a novel ifyou need to.
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Blindsided says:
Kat & Ox…thank you. I just sobbed. I will write more in the very near future. I did not even mention that this ex now has gotten a “tramp stamp” tatoo on her lower back (from the BF). She was mowing the lawn today with a bathing suit showing this cheap piece of art.
I wish there could be “no-contact” but with her literally 1 block away (there is only one way in and out-the same, single street) I see her at least — and as many as 4 times daily. Each sighting is like a stab in my heart.
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newworld view says:
blindsided…i am so sorry for all your pain and distress….wow it is hard to fathom someone changing so abruptly….o one in their right mind could be so cruel…i feel for the children who must suffer through all this…..you have come to a wonderful place of healing…take a deep breath and feel welcome and safe and loved…this is where you come to get stronger and be refreshed and renewed……..give yourself and you daughter a huge hug….terri
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henry says:
Blindsided – Man my heart goes out to you. I think I would have to move if I were you. You are very strong. I remember the first time I posted I didn’t think anyone would respond. But this super woman named OX DROVER responded the very next day… I sobbed..and then they all came to hear me and help me….hang tuff….and keep posting and sobbing…..
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jxyzzy says:
Having read some of the comments here, in a small way, I guess I am lucky “so far”
first met A 21 years ago, just separated after a 15 year marriage. she was actually looking in my ex-wifes new car, that i purchased for her the year before. A was/is a classic beauty who would stop traffic on an expressway. being in a divorce that I did not want, I had the typical false ego of a man who felt like a complete failure. so i asked her over to my home to cook me/us dinner!!! though that did not go very well
within 3 weeks we did go out..and the firsr 30 min went well, until,,,as we are traveling down the highway in my new benz sl
topdown, beautiful night.and she comes out with “how much she misses JOE…??? second red flag was at dinner, she tried to humiluate me, for being so stupid for ordering her salid before her entree!! dropped her off with my head reeling!!
several weeks went by and I called her on easter sunday, asking if I could drop by, when I did I gave her flowers and a watch and the first thing out of her mouth was how much did the watch cost? wow this women is beautiful, but the mind is saying “something is wrong with this picture” I leave and amazing as it seems, as I pulled into a gas station, the guy in front looks and drives the same truck that A descrbed that good ole JOE had. I has to ask….and yes it was Joe, and he had dumped her awhile back, he wished me luck and that was all to the conversation.
a week later I recieve the most evil letter in the mail accusing me of ruining A’s relationship with this guy, I was shocked,upset and totally bewildered as I said or did nothing wrong…..no contact with A for 4 years…..shows up at my office all smiles with a very convincing business propasition.
I said let’s talk about it over at my house in the pool, this women is so georgous she could sell you any “bridge” over the next 2 months, we fly around the country and the business is a failure. she dissapears for several more years. and shows up at my door and wants a baby she is now 41 and invirto did not work, and looking at the gene pool she now wanted to do it the old fashioned way. did not work thank god.
this is getting boring and long so i will cut to the chase,
in 98 we went to tahoe for a week and I stopped seeing her shortly thereafter. was in a long term relationship 7 years. and two weeks after it ended I CALLED HER UP. much to my shock she agreed to see me that night,,,we have been together for just over two years, and it has been a living hell.
gave her money jewels, heart soul time gave her my best, feeling that this time i will not fail this relationship. last week while at a dinner party she told the host that i beat her all the time, the host who knows me very well asked her to leave
immediatly I took her back to my place and while packing up her things to take her home she called the local police and accused me of beating her up. I never touched a women in my life…I am well known and the police left my home with no report nor action..I took her home the next day and she shows
absoultly no remorse about the incident.
I am on a road less traveled as I still care deeply for her.
did i mention she was the physical abuser, or did I mention she has not had a job for 11 years.
Help me
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OxDrover says:
Dear Jxyzzy,
I’m sorry you’ve been through such hel with this woman, you ahve come to the right place to gain knowledge and Knowledge=Power, and taking back our power=healing.
REad, start with every essay here in the archives and read them one by one. You need to learn everything you can about these “things” that appear to be human but aren’t in my book. They are PREDATORS and users, and abusers. Good luck, you’ve come to the right place. We (the bloggers here) will support you, be here for you, listen and BELIEVE what you’ve been through–people who haven’t had this experience don’t seem to comprehend what and how terrible itis.
Sometimes I feel like I am trying to tell people I was “abducted by aliens”—they might believe that before they would believe what really happened with the psychopaths.
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alohatraveler says:
Blindsided,
Your story is… I don’t know what it is?! I am sorry for your loss because it truly sounds like you lost something and yet it is there under your nose. Painful.
Move Blindsided. I would. I know it’s easy for me to say that from here and moving and selling your house would be complicated. I just don’t know how I would move on if my ex was my neighbor.
Is there any chance your ex will snap out of this? I am just curious what your therapist have to say about that.
Anyway, welcome. I hope you find healing here.
Aloha
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kat_o_nine_tales says:
Blindsided, I’ve sat here so many times with the tears just sliding down my face. These people are gentle and wonderful. Again, welcome. I know how you feel about one part of your story. My first husband, shortly after our breakup, ended up renting the house RIGHT NEXT DOOR to us with the wife of one of our CHURCH FRIENDS. This was horribly traumatic for all of us. He would invite all their “friends” over and sit out in the back yard grilling and having fun, while our 4 children watched from the windows. We were practically starving and scrambling to get our lives in order after the failure of our 15 year marriage and business, and he just wanted to twist the knife.
I have never really been able to forgive him for this, even after all these years I can still see my little boy’s face pressed to the window, watching his dad who would have nothing to do with us playing with the other woman’s daughter.
Even though it was very hard for me financially, I moved away to the city where my parents live. Two months later HE FOLLOWED ME, and rented a house less than a mile from us. Supposedly it was to be near the kids, but that was ridiculous as he never took them for visits. No, I had just moved away before he was finished enjoying my pain.
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kat_o_nine_tales says:
Dear jxyzzy… RUN, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.
There is no way you could “fail” this relationship. She’s just plain crazy. I don’t care how lovely she is, nothing could make up for the way she treats you.
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lostingrief says:
okay, so i’m having a hard time with something. i’m obsessing. any help would be very appreciated.
our sex life was amazing … we were supremely compatible … and he would always say, even after all these years, that he would never give that up. however, when he started seeing the other girl, he completely stopped having sex with me, and didn’t want me to even touch him (unless he wanted it). why would he do that when he could have had both of us while he was doing what he was doing? i’m not upset about it necessarily, i just wonder: why would he give up our sexual relationship when he didn’t have to? was it guilt? was she so good he didn’t need me anymore?
it’s driving me crazy.
thanks
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lostingrief says:
p.s. i asked him, and he told me that he ”didn’t know” why he withdrew affection and sex from me.
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Blindsided says:
To all of you – Thank you. Kat & Ox — both of you described evil ex’s. There is a special place in Hell for those two. Moving is not an option right now. Just like most Americans, I could not give my house away in this economy — let alone sell it. I owe far more than it is, currently, worth.
Also, I am very, very involved in our (small) community. I am on the city council, & Home owners Association – among many other things. Also, I have lived here for 16 years; I “brought” Sherri to this community. My home is 5 minutes from my ofice, etc., etc.
No, she will never “snap out of it.”
Thank you all – must leave for work. My next post – dating after a nut case.
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Blindsided says:
Kat….wow, he moved next door and ignored his own kids?!?!?!?!?! Owwww. There is no shame with a P.
Ken
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Beverly says:
Yes, lostingrief, I asked myself that question many times. I think what they do, is that they build up the steam with you and when they find themselves getting too attached, they find someone else to unattach themselves and dilute the experience. Its because they are a risk of abandonment the more close you become – so they short circuit that closeness. They dare not get into direct contact with their vulnerable and shame feelings.
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Tood says:
To all,
No matter how much I learn about these disordered freaks, I am always amazed at how ALIKE they all are. It’s like they are all just manifestations of the same evil spirit.
Blindsided, mine had a habit of frequenting a certain coffee shop, at which one of my children (his step-child) worked. After our split, he moved from his usual stool at the end of the counter, to sit smack dab in the middle of the room, where his step-child, from the kitchen window, could see him every day. And he ignored this child, acted like she didn’t even exist. The cruelty of this one simple act was just astounding, and how do you explain this to others? He sat in a different spot, therefore he is Satan?
And lostingrief, mine also withdrew physical relations with me for about two years prior to our split. He had many physical problems, so his feigned impotence was plausible. Why did he do it? Of course I’ll never really know, but I suspect he felt he had “taken me as far as I would go,” and I was no longer any use to him. Plus, he got himself a Viagra prescription and I imagine he didn’t want to waste it on the wife when there were apparently so many (much, much younger) girlfriends to give the gift of his wonderfulness to.
If all of these psychos knew just how COMMON their pathologies are, they’d just shrivel. They really do think they are unique gems of nature, and they’re just chunks off the same cowchip.
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lostingrief says:
wow. you folks are wonderful. i feel so much better.
beverly, that makes so much sense that his closeness to me would render him unable to be with me sexually while he was ‘doing’ everyone else.
tood, mine told me he had physical problems as well, not to mention i was very much ‘on to him’ toward the end and wouldn’t shut up about it!
sigh. i hope i get through this. he actually called me yesterday and said he wanted to come over and talk. i said, ‘oh HELL no!, at which point he simply said, ‘then i’ll just go be with HER.’
what a guy!
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rperk6069 says:
Blindsided,
My heart goes out to you for everything you have been through. I know that some women can be very vicious. I used to work with a lady who, for her own reasons did not like me. That was just fine with me until after she got fired I found out from the other girls in the office that she had told them I should do everyone a favor and take a gun and shoot myself. Now I know her and I did not see eye to eye but I don’t believe I deserved something as horrible as that. I know this is something very small compared to what you have been through, I just wanted to say that your story is not impossible to believe, I think all of us here DO believe. We have seen/read/heard and lived through things that would have at one time seemed too unreal to be real. Not anymore, we know, we believe, we care. Take care
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Beverly says:
Some of them, drop you, mess it up – when the relationship is going well – its like – they want to drop you from the tallest height to get maximum thud.
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Beverly says:
Yes, messing up the Christmas holidays seems to be one of their favourites. Cancelling or disappearing, or the like to cause a nasty dent in your relationship.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Blindsided,
I’m glad you are feeling a bit better, and validated, here today. It is a long process, but though your X is diagnosed bi-polar, which is a treatable disease, you might as well accept that she is also behaving as a psychopath, and there is NO CURE FOR THAT. They EMBRACE EVIL, they ENJOY other people’s pain. Otherwise, she would not be there trying to cause you pain.
I’m sorry that you can’t move away so that you don’t have to see her, but with your situation, the only closure you will have is when the time comes that even seeing her doens’t make your blood boil. THAT YOU CAN ACHEIVE. I won’t tell you that it will be easy or quick, but you can do it.
Acheiving this level of closure is sort of like Jesus asked people before he healed them “DO YOU BELIEVE?” Only those that said “yes lord, I believe’ were healed. One man who was asking healing for his daughter said “Yes, I believe, Lord, help me with my UNbelief”
I know it will be difficult for you to always believe, but slowly you can believe that you can heal, even from this EVIL that has come into your life and blindsided you.
I suggest that the LEARNING ABOUT THEM (Psychopaths) is something that you spend every available minute doing. READ READ READ and learn. There is enough information and articles (essays?) here on this site to keep you reading for 100s of hours. Knowledge=Power and you have to take back the power from this woman to hurt you. To take back from this woman the pain she has stabbed you with.
It is all a massive grief process after losing “everything” we held dear. Losing all our illusions of “safety” and “security” and “happiness”—just GONE! We feel powerless, but we are NOT POWERLESS, we just have to take back our power, and to believe we can take our power back.
The absolutely satanic meanness in these people is “unbelieveable.” When I went to a new therapist, I spent two hours telling him “all my family is out to kill me” and my story was almost (not quite) as bizarre as yours and he very kindly and nicely asked me to BRING IN A WITNESS and DOCUMENTS to verify I wasn’t a “Paranoid delusional” I laughed at it, rather than got upset, because I can sure see how anyone hearing my story our yours would think WE WERE NUTS.
Fortunately, here, you will be believed, you will be supported, but finding others outside this safe haven to believe or support you may be difficult. There seems to almost be a NEED to talk about it, TO BE BELIEVED among victims and former victims. Our world seems to be toppsy turvie and “reality” is not “stable.” We seem to NEED someone to validate that we aren’t “crazy.” Even if they have driven us to the brink of emotional instability we are still NOT CRAZY.
We can be healed, they can’t.
I wish you well, Blindsided, don’t give up, it will take time, but you can HEAL, you can get better, the pain WILL STOP, and you will come out better than ever before.
Right now, though, you have been mentioning that “dating” is crazy during this time. I would suggest that for the time being that you don’t date, CONCENTRATE ON YOURSELF frist, dating and relationships take ENERGY and as badly as you have been burned, ENERGY is in short supply. Concentrate what you have, ALL YOUR RESOURCES onto YOU, healing you, and when that is accomplished you will have the energy to put into a new and HEALTHY relationship.
Many times when we go back into another relationship while we are still reeling from the previous one, it is a worse disaster than the one we were reeling from because we don’t have the energy and judgment and emotional stability to have a healthy relationship until we are farther along the road to healing. ((((hugs)))))
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bird says:
“Some of them, drop you, mess it up – when the relationship is going well – its like – they want to drop you from the tallest height to get maximum thud.”
Totally. Is there a school for sociopaths that they all went to, or something? Most healthy relationships you can see the end coming from a mile a way. The train is coming and you hear it, feel it, and see it. It gives you time to jump off the track unscathed. With the sociopath, the end comes like a silent train that wacks you out of nowhere. Leaving you to ask…”What just happened?”
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tryingtorecover says:
Tood,
I just said something similar to my therapist. (trying to explain to someone about something like changing seats) I was talking to her about ( if things would go further) needing a restraining order to keep my ex off of my property. I said to her, “What do I say? He was in my driveway laughing and smiling.” I’d look like the crazy one.
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lostingrief says:
Just curious. Has anyone else had the experience that their p/s actually would SAY “i’m the devil, you just can’t see it because you’re so in love with me” … or … “i’m a mean, cruel m…f…, and so what.” geez, hindsight sure is 20/20. when he would say these things i would laugh. i was FASCINATED by his ability to be so damn cool and above it all. it sounded so absurd, but little did i realize, it was true. where was i when this was all happening to me. it’s like i was so starry-eyed about his looks and what i thought was a spiritual love, that there he was WARNING me (for SIX YEARS!) and i never even heard him. what the …..?
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Tood says:
lostingrief,
Absolutely. “I’m a cold m-f’er.” “I can walk away from anyone or anything.” I didn’t hear it, at least not in the coldly literal way he meant.
And towards the end, when he was projecting all his own defects onto me: “You are cold.” “You are aloof.” “You are crazy.” “You don’t care for anyone.” “You are selfish.”
Now for my own question: Has anyone else reached a “core personality” for want of a better term, with them? That is, have you spoken to a “thing” with a voice different than the P/S’s normal voice? If you have, you’ll know what I’m talking about. (shiver)
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henry says:
yes Tood he sent chills down my spine more times than I care to remember Mostly his personality was endearing and child like but when he did something wrong and I confronted him it was a complete different voice. One night he didnt come home at all and at 7 am when he came in he said ( I don’t give a fu-k what you think, I will just leave it’s that simple ) but after he slept for awhile the little pitiful opologetic boy resurfaced. Oh what a fool I was……was….
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henry says:
and he permeated evil how ever u spell that word, his karma was evil i could feel it sense it fear it i was under his spell they are powerful those demon’s they are…
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lostingrief says:
OMG!!!! “I don’t give a fu%k what you think????” That was my s/p’s MOTTO!!!
and, in the end, before he admitted he was cheating and got his new ‘girl’ pregnant, all i heard was what a ‘whore’ i was?
are they pod people!?!? i feel like i’m living in a bad dream.
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henry says:
yeah he said things like I am tired of supporting your habits!!! excuse me? he wasnt supporting anything but his prick…… i could go on and on but I wont it was just all bullchit and they do what they do i am going to stop trying to figure him/them out my brain is fried got to stop
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henry says:
He threatened to expose (my habit’s) to my sons and employer’s excuse me HE was my habit now if I could just stop smokin
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henry says:
One thing I have learned about myself in all this is – I will never ignore my intuition again – it is there to protect me from myself….
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OxDrover says:
Dear Tood, et al,
Yes, they have this way of “telling the truth” –my P-son did it, and it was like a bucket of cold water flung in my face without warning. One minute he was saying “But MOM, what would JESUS do?” (the mask) then it dropped in a micro-second and the FACE, the LOOK OF EVIL was there and he BRAGGED ABOUT WHAT HE HAD DONE (MURDER). When I responded in a calm voice and a flat affect (it apparently didn’t start the fight he wanted to or apparently scare me) and he IMMEDIATELY went back to “But mom, what would JESUS DO?” AND THE SCARIEST part is that he SAW NO CONTRADICTIONS in the two back to back statements.
That NOT SEEING THE CONTRADICTIONS in their words is something Dr. Robert Hare mentioned in his book “Without Conscience” and I think that is almost a DIAGNOSTIC thing, Normal people try to keep their “lies striaght” and make them “beleiveable” but the Ps LIE WHEN THEY ARE NOT EVEN BELIEVEABLE, when the evidence that it is a LIE is right in front of your eyes, they still HOLD ON TO THE LIE. They don’t see the contradiction at all. The ways they try (and sometimes do) TWIST reality is (head shaking here) so twisted there isn’t any way a “normal” person can truly get our heads around it. I SEE it, but I don’t know how it operates.
Henry, I thought your internet was going this morning? Did you get a good rain? We got 2-3 inches still misting some today. Watered my raised bed garden I put in the other day. Mostly herbs and a couple of ‘matter plants for late crop.
Listening to our INTUITION and watching for the RED FLAGS, like when they say “I’m a bad MF” BELIEVE THEM.
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takingmeback says:
Lostingrief, yes I think they are pod people!!! LOL I couldn’t help but laugh at that. They are horrid!
I find this impotence thing so interesting. My ex definitely had problems. Our sex life wasn’t the greatest as a result. But I also know he talked about S&M stuff that I wasn’t into. I have a suspicion that he got his kicks in ways that he knew I wouldn’t play. He has a problem with being seen as perfect LOL. Yes, I know, they all do. Since I didn’t approve or respond with enthusiasm to the few sick fantasies he shared with me, I believe his little problem…and I do mean little (sorry I couldn’t help it but it’s so true) was a result of that. He wouldn’t push me sexually because I had already rejected his fantasies. If there’s one thing I am…it’s honest! His fantasies were about control and degradation. No surprises there huh?
I do know that they withdraw when they get too close or feel too “attached”. I look at them as having an attachment disorder in general. I believe they don’t attach emotionally because of fear of abandonment and fear of anyone having any “control” over them. My ex told me after we broke up and his attempts to control me failed, that he only felt “sane” spending time with those he had no attachment to. I believe this. Even though I was seen as a possession he was attached to me. His ego state was dependent on how I responded to him. Since I was constantly “threatening” him in his eyes by holding him accountable for his behavior, I was threatening to abandon him. He took that very much like I was “controlling” him. He needed to detach and seek attention elsewhere to heal his wounded ego. Took me awhile to figure that one out. Luckily he revealed himself very well through his own admissions.
As for their self-descriptions of being the devil, etc.,…my ex said he could be like the antichrist and people still came to him. He said it as if exasperated by the idea LOL. Oh he was so histrionic! His admission to sef-sabotaging and all was so true. They are very sadistic creatures who love the drama. A confusing bunch though. In one moment they cry and seek pity and want us to run to them. The next moment they are dark and fatalistic and we’re supposed to leave them alone to brood. It would be nice if they came with an instruction booklet LOL.
I don’t know about you but I couldn’t keep up. It’s like in the song, “Fly”. “It would take an acrobat and I’ve already tried all that. I’m gonna let him fly.” Now spread those bat wings and scurry off little buggers! LOL Sorry I just couldn’t resist!
Love,
“Lucy”
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Blindsided says:
Tood, Kat, rperk & Ox…..Wow and wow! All of you touched on extremely salient points (Tood-the rat, shifting seats, is awful). Again, no shame… I feel very welcome and good about the fact that I m not alone. One of the things that I see in common is the attitude from some neighbors and friends that my ex “looks so normal.” She, in fact, is quite stunning and does not act as I have described to others this way. Of course, the manipulation vis ‘a vis the children allowed them to see the behavior. The one time we spoke in the last 24 months, I asked her, “What did you tell “Franny” & “Doug” (my stepchildren of 10 years) about why they can’t see me or “Rachel” – and how you replaced me with a 28 year old bum you met 48 hours ago?”
She replied, “They told me they secretly hated you for the last ten years.” At least with you folks at LF I do not have to explain the absurdity of that lie.
Ox, you – you said some very special things that will allow me to segue into the next level of my pain. You are wonderful…really
Part of my mental pain has been the following: There is no man on earth that loves women more than I do. I love everything about them. They are our lovers and mothers and daughters and sisters. There is no man on earth that enjoyed being married more than me. There is no guy on earth that enjoyed being a father as much as I did. There is no guy on earth that loved his wife as much as I did.
The result? I will never get married again. This is another tragedy / trauma that I have to deal with in my brain on a daily basis. Love them, yes. Live with them, sure. Share everything and enjoy life, of course. Marry, never! As the Jews said of the holocaust, “Never again!” This was a, personal, holocaust for me and I can say, “Never again.”
As far as dating is concerned, please remember, I was separated 24 months ago and have been living all by myself ever since in a 4 bedroom 4 bath home on a lake. I am human and crave human relationship like anyone else. I have had no problem as (in my area, at least) I am considered quite a “catch.” Most of the women in our circle think my ex was insane to lose me – and they are often referring their, single, friends to me! Though a decade of my life was wasted with my ex and I am now 49, in the (K.C.) area I am constantly approached by a large number of women; getting dates is not a problem — and I have had a lot of fun with women 35 to 55. I HAVE BEEN SINGLE FOR 24 MONTHS.
The problem lies in describing my divorce. This question, a logical and normal one at that, is very difficult to answer. Every woman asks it. Do I tell a date the, Jerry Springer like, saga? While truthful, it casts an image of me that is not at all what I am really like! Worse yet, some will doubt me and say, “I am sure there is another side to the story (you are not telling me)” This puts me in a position of defending myself. Do I demur? If I do, they are suspicious. Moreover, I do not blame them.
AS mentioned by another post, I do have proof. I do have evidence. I do have court documents showing that I settled a defamation lawsuit against the psycho as well as signed documents wherein she said that she did indeed tell over 100 blatant lies about me. I do have letters and medical records from the Doctor’s documenting her condition and behavior. However, do I want to show them? Does anybody want to see them? As far as I can tell, no. They bring up bad memories. I so would like to move forward…And I think writing on this site helps me a lot. This might be the best step yet.
Which leads me to Ox’ comment regarding reading, learning and absorbing everything I can about these vicious people. I think I have done that — TOO MUCH. I have, for the last 24 months, done nothing but read, think and discuss this shit with my therapist(s). I think I have read every word at Lovefraud — and 100’s of other sites. I have read at least 100 books on the human condition, psychopaths, P/D’s etc. My life has been consumed by this. I want to move in a different direction.
Writing about it here just might be the trick : ) BTW, after a 12 hour round trip taking my daughter to college today, I returned to my home and, while driving by the ex’s – saw her smoking a joint with the 29 yr. old husband while sitting on their front porch. Isn’t that special?
BTW, did I mention that in month 7 of chemo my ex called CIGNA’s fraud hotline and told them I was, “not taking the chemo and was duping the system for disability money.” ? That caused all medical payments to my providers to stop while we filed a, 90 day, (successful) appeal and benefits were re-instated. Wasn’t that pleasant of her? : ) Next post, A “satellite” tumor pops out of my foot – due to the strain she brought on our marriage. I couldn’t make this up.
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takingmeback says:
Oxy, I have to completely agree that contradicting themselves is a huge component of the P or S or whatever they are LOL. My P clients constantly contradict themselves just as the S did. I find it baffling. If I reflect this back to them in session I watch them seethe yet quickly and without missing a beat either change the subject or cooly try to justify one stance or the other or both!
I had a client once tell me he believes he is borderline sociopathic. He said in all honesty that he has the makings of a serial killer. He is correct as he does. He not as far as I know. But the ingredients are there. He shared that he always has two streams of thought going at once. They are always in contrast to each other. However he believes that they are both true. He admitted that he will constantly switch from one stream of thought to the next. What does this do? It leads him to contradict himself all the time. It’s funny how he came to tell me this. I was doing an initial assessment and followed a hunch. I started to ask very specific questions including whether people ever reflected to him that he contradicted himself. He hadn’t done so yet in that session but when the gut starts talking now I listen! I didn’t say a word about sociopathy when he blurted out his own suspicions regarding himself. Interesting eh? They know they’re different. If only they’d stay in reality long enough we might have a chance to treat them. But they slip back into their ego defense mode and bam they’re gone!
I don’t know if I can generalize that particular client to all Ps but it makes sense. It’s based on distrust. This client trusts nothing and no one and can’t even trust reality or his own thinking enough to decide which stream of thought is actually true. So he holds on to both. I know many people say that Ps aren’t psychotic but they don’t trust reality. The truth can be right in front of their eyes but if it doesn’t match the desires of their ego they distort it until it fits. This is delusional as they create illusions by doing so. That is psychotic in my book.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Blindsided,
Being divorced 24 months (or any other measure of “time”) doesn’t mean much unless you are pretty close to being “healed.” (which, I think is a journey, not a destination)
There are those of us here who have been separated or divorced for years and still don’t feel ready to date or have a relationship.
I realize you have been horribly hurt. I am both a widow and also a victim of a P-XBF who caught me after my husband’s death while I was very vulnerable. That’s been well over 2 yrs ago since I kicked that creep to the curb, but I still am not interested in dating at this point, because dating and relationships take energy that I think is better focused on my own healing. My story is about as bizarre as yours, but no sense in going into all the details. Sufice it to say that right now my OWN SELF HEALING is the single most important thing in my life.
Too many times people jump into another relationship to “quiet” the pain (I did that after the loss of my husband in a plane crash) and it was a disaster. Many people get involved with “serial Ps” for the same reason. If you are not “healthy” yourself, you can’t be half of a healthy relationship.
You say that you love women but will never again “marry” one, live with, etc. but never marry. To me “the lady protesteth too much”—sure, right now you probably feel that way, but “never name the well from which you will never drink under any circumstances.” I’ve done that too many times and had to eat crow over it. LOL
You may have women crawling all over you as a “great catch” and in your age range there aren’t many men out there that ARE great catches—more of them are WINOS and REJECTS. (No Joke) So in your age group you there are about 100 women for every single male, and if you eliminate the winos and rejects, you have about 75 women (statisticaly) to choose from from 30 yrs old to 60 yrs old, so that leaves you a bunch to pick your choice from.
From your first post, though, i gathered that you are still HURTING QUITE BADLY and that her living near you is upsetting to you, etc. That was why I suggested that you might not want to get into a relationship right away until you were closer to having this episode come to “acceptence” and “peace” in your heart and mind.
Having Bi-polar diagnosed at her age is rare, but it does happen, I had a friend (a physician) who was diagnosed at 34 after a severe manic episode. Prior to that she had been able to cope and never had any “way out” behavior before. She sought and got treatment and is now quite functional on medication and continues her practice.
It is also quite common in my experience that many people with the bi-polar become so narcissistic that they actually LOVE THE HIGHS and don’t want medication to bring the back to “base line”–the euphoria is apparently better than street drugs for some. (I am a retired Registered Advance Practice Nurse [Nurse Practitioner] with some mental health back ground as well as family medical practice).
Patients with Bi-polar that are motivated and compliant with their medications are usually able to live normal lives, or pretty close to normal.
YOu say that you were “blindsided” and I do not doubt you one bit, but at the same time, I have the feeling that your wife may have been wearing a “mask” like many of our X’es were. They can wear them for years and appear to be the BEST person in the world, but boy O boy, when that mask slips and you see the SATANIC creature behind the mask, it is something that BLINDSIDES you. If you have never had experience in this kind of thing, like many people, hell, like MOST people, you “over look” the little tings that would give them away to an “experienced” person, because after all this trauma WE KNOW what to look for NOW. It was a “high tuition” course at the University of Hard Knocks, but we finally got a DEGREE! Unfortunately for me and many others, we had to repeat some of the classes with different “professors”–I started out with a Biological father-P, a P-son, a P-maternal Uncle, a P-x FIL, a P XDIL, a P-XBF, etc etc. not counting bosses and previous business partners. I finally got my DEGREE and “graduated” from that School. I’m still healing, treating the wounds, and working on learning more about all this.
God Knows that you have faced THE BEAST and MULTIPLE BEASTS, all while fighting cancer. There is no one on here who wishes you peace, harmony and a happy life than I do, you can bet the farm on that. I just know the toll that the kind of stress we get from facing MULTIPLE BEASTS for years on end takes on our souls, our minds, our emotions and our hearts.
When I change dtherapists and went to one closer to me for my PTSD from the plane crash, after two hours of giving him my story, he had me bring in a WITNESS to verify that I wasn’t some kind of paranoid nut case. He put it sweeter than that, but that’s essentially what he wanted to verify. LOL I laughed, because most of us have stories that are ‘TOO CRAZY TO BE BELIEVEABLE”—truth is stranger than fiction!
Your post (above) sounds more farther along in the healing process today. I’m not trying in any way to criticize you at all, I’m sure you got enough of that already from your X. I’m just giving my opinon for whatever it’s worth. Sometimes it is difficult to get the entire drift in a written form. But do stay around a while, no one is going to “dis” you here, this is a wonderfully supportive place and a great group of bloggers. Lots of good information as well. I’ve pretty well got it all down “intellectually” but still from time to time have trouble with the emotional acceptence that my entire freaking family except for my other two sons are Ps, or if not technically Ps, they are just as TOXIC. I’m also trying to get to the point that I don’t beat myself up once in a while for “being so stupid.”
Aloha calls that “informed denial”—-she’s so great with the phrases, cuts to the core of the BS in o nly a few words. I take paragraphs to say what she can say in fwo or three words. LOL Anyway, glad you are here, and hope your roads get less bumpy as the rest of your life goes on, I think you’ve had enough “excitement” to last a while.
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