Guidelines for posting comments on the Lovefraud Blog
In the three years since Lovefraud launched, it’s grown from a website to a community. I am always amazed and appreciative that so many people are contributing. New readers arrive distraught and asking for help; other readers respond with caring and heartfelt support. People start to recover. It is beautiful to watch.
Thank you all.
As we post, there is an important fact that we must all keep in mind. Here it is: Linguists estimate that 65 percent to 90 percent of the meaning in human communication is transmitted via nonverbal cues—tone of voice, facial expression, body language. None of these cues, of course, are available over a computer. That means when we post written comments on the Lovefraud blog, 65 percent to 90 percent of our meaning may be missing.
So what happens? Without the benefit of those nonverbal cues, people interpret a post to mean what they want it to mean.
Sociopaths take advantage of this phenomenon all the time. When sociopaths are sending flowery e-mails that are full of lies, we interpret the e-mails as truth, because we want them to be true. We believe what we want to believe.
Assume honorable intentions
Here on Lovefraud, this can go either way, depending on the reader’s frame of mind. If a reader is looking for consolation, he or she may interpret another poster’s advice as supportive. If a reader is on edge—a common occurrence with victims of sociopaths—he or she may interpret another poster’s advice as being critical.
I believe this has led to some problems over the last few weeks. Some bloggers have described their situations, other bloggers have offered advice, and the original bloggers have taken offense, when none was ever intended. Reading words on the screen, the offended party could not hear the caring in the Lovefraud blogger’s voice.
Everyone who posts on this website does so to seek information and support for healing, or to help someone else who is going through the trauma. Since Lovefraud launched, I can barely remember a troublemaker. Even the two self-proclaimed sociopaths who posted were respectful, and most readers found what they said to be enlightening.
Therefore, I ask everyone to assume that all of us are posting with the best, most honorable intentions, and that we are here to support each other. If at any time you feel that a blogger is not posting with honorable intentions, please let me know.
We are a group of opinionated people, and there are going to be times when we disagree. That’s fine. I think an animated discussion of different points of view is healthy. However, all discussions should be respectful, and no one should be personally attacked.
Posting guidelines for the Lovefraud Blog
Lovefraud has gotten so big that I guess it’s time for formalize some posting guidelines. So here they are:
1. The goal of the Lovefraud Blog is to provide information about sociopaths and their effects on victims, and to help victims recover from entanglements with sociopaths. Please post all comments with the intention of promoting healing, and read comments with the intention of finding the healing message.
2. Keep in mind that Lovefraud readers are extremely diverse. Our readers are men and women from all over the world, representing different races, ethnicities, religious and spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof), education levels, economic circumstances, political views and sexual orientations. Please be respectful and tolerant of all.
3. If you find a comment objectionable, please do not respond to it. Notify the blog owner, Donna Andersen. If you suspect that someone is a predator, alert me immediately. Send e-mail to donna@lovefraud.com.
4. Please refrain from using offensive language—such George Carlin’s seven dirty words. However, feel free to imply your feelings with those wonderful characters **#$$#!!!!
5. Each article posted by the Lovefraud Blog authors starts a conversation. Please post comments related to the conversation, unless, of course, another reader has posted a comment asking for support. Then, feel free to offer it.
6. We cannot name people believed to be sociopaths without documentation. If you want to describe your personal story, please do not include names or other identifying information. If your story is already in the media, however, you may post links to it.
7. Please do not post copyrighted material such as articles from other websites, book excerpts, song lyrics or poems. This is a violation of copyright law, even if you cite the original author. To draw attention to information outside of Lovefraud, you may summarize it in your own words and post a link.
8. Please do not copy any article from Lovefraud or the Lovefraud Blog and post it on another website. This is a violation of Lovefraud’s copyright. But feel free to post links to Lovefraud content.
Once again, I thank all Lovefraud readers. Your contributions and insights about the terrible problem of sociopaths in our society, and your willingness to help others, makes the effort of maintaining Lovefraud worthwhile.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
rperk6069 says:
Thank you Donna. I think this makes for healthy boundries.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 3:57pm
holywatersalt says:
Donna-
Thank you for this site. Thank you.
And Dr. Steve and Dr. Liane and Ms. Gallagher– not to mention all the posters. I really believe this site makes a difference and saves lives.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 3:57pm
sassysarah says:
I cannot begin to tell you how much the words from each of you have already helped me so much. I have been involved with a sociopathic man for three years and didn’t know it until a friend sent this to me. As I read about all of your experiences I feel as if I am the person you are describing. God, I need someone to tell me I am not crazy. I can’t possibly tell the entire story of what I have been through but I want to highlight it and beg for anyone to please help me get through this nightmare. I have lived with this man on and off for three years. It started off in Aug. of 2005 and the hell and torment haven’t stopped. I have seriously tried to kill myself three times because I thought I was the most horrible person in the world. The last time was late June 2008. This jerk was angry with me because I drank too much and when he came to join me at the pool, a male neighbor was talking to me and after that, all hell broke loose. He waited until the next day to lower the boom on me, insulting me, degrading and beratting me as if I was as he called me, “a piece of shit”. No one in my life had ever talked to me like that before but he has for three years and I let him do it because he had me convinced it was me, I was the crazy one. I sat there and took his abuse and begged him to calm down and just talk to me. I tried to hold him, he shoved me away, called me horrific names. He threatened to call the police to “have me removed from his condo”. This condo was what he promised would always be my home. He’s thrown me out of “my home” more times than I can count. This time I knew I couldn’t endure another episode so I quietly went into the bedroom and swallowed a bottle of pills, everything I could find. He came after me, knew I had taken the pills, held the phone in the air and said “get your fucking ass out of here”. He called the police. I could barely walk but I managed to get to the top of the steps where I fell hitting my head on a rock. I tried to get up three times but kept falling. The police came, I was dying, he knew I had fallen and gotten hurt but he never once even walked down the steps to see if I was OK. EMT was called and I was taken to the hospital. All of the condo community was staring. I was humiliated, hurt, ashamed, embarrassed and all the while praying to die before they could pump my stomach. It didn’t work. They saved my life and thank God I am here today to beg any of you for help to not let him sweet talk me, lure me back in and hurt me again. He even had me thinking I was an alcoholic. I put this man in front of everything in my life. I let him dominate me, manipulate me and destroy me and I didn’t have a clue he was doing it. I should have seen this pattern of behavior coming. The first week we were together he left me, just left me. He didn’t come back for four days. He never called. I was crying frantically thinking something had happened to him. I was out of my mind with worry for this jerk. When he showed back up he told me he just needed time to think. He let me go through hell for five days without one tiny bit of regard for me and how I might be managing. The truth is, he didn’t care, he never loved me, not one bit and now I see it. Oh my God, I see it now. This jerk lived across the street from the hospital I was taken to and never once called to check on me, didn’t come to see me, never even asked about how I was. I am a very intelligent woman, 51 years old, a master’s degree, a professional (teacher), just retired and here I am with nothing. I am in a home I own but I have so many repairs to make. I don’t have hot water, no air and my plumbing is just about gone but thank God I am still here and by the grace of God, I will never go back to that hell again. Episodes of him getting angry and leaving for two or three weeks are almost countless. Episodes of him throwing me out are too many to count. He packs up my things in trash bags and dumps them in my x-husbands yard. He has cut up my clothes before, shoved me brusing me so bad that on one occasion the police were called in to talk to me but I refused to press charges. He has a way of getting me to do exactly what he wants and I don’t know how he did it but he did. There’s so much more to tell but if anyone could just help me be strong, I need the help and I need it desparately.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 4:05pm
sassysarah says:
Everyone around me kept telling me what he was but I refused to heed their advice. I knew something was wrong with him but I loved him so much I would have done just about anything for him and I did. I did things against my values. I let him strip me of everything and everyone in my life. I feel like a shell and sometimes want to crawl back in and never come out but I pray to God I will continue to get help and hoopefully get better and maybe one day I will get my life back. People who have known me all my life have told me for the last three years I was only a shell of the person I used to be. I used to have confidence, respect, admiration, character and integrity and he took every bit of it. He convinced his family, friends, neighbors that I was crazy. He would push me into episodes that would so inflame me that I would just loose it. That’s when he had me. Now I see. He used all those opportunities to make me look like a crazed bitch. Hell, no wonder I drank. I never drank alcohol until three years ago and I am not drinking it now. I guess I drank to be able to ignore his abuse and dominance. I don’t know what to do or where to turn except this site. I never imagined I could be so easily fooled but I was.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 4:16pm
JaneSmith says:
Sassysarah,
Welcome to the LoveFraud fellowship. We are here to listen, support and learn from each other and I think you’ve taken the first triumphant step towards your healing: realizing the man you love/loved was a cunning, manipulating, deceiving predator with only his self centered, selfish desires paramount in his mind.
You’re story is heartbreaking and I personally flinched reading each and every word. I cannot express how truly sorry I am for you being treated with such disrespect, such malicious abuse. I can firmly state that you never deserved any of the abuse inflicted upon you. Never.
Please take the time to read the articles and personal stories on LoveFraud in an effort to begin the slow, yet eventual path to healing and recovery.
We are here for you, Sassysarah, and we do sincerely care for your health and welfare. Vent, rant, rave, cry your beautiful eyes out. We won’t judge, we won’t condemn nor criticize you, but only be there if you need to talk.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 5:40pm
sassysarah says:
Jane, thank you so much for your encouraging words. They made me cry. I almost feel guilty to have anyone even be nice to me. I am so confused. I don’t know how he did this to me and I am not sure I can walk on but I do want to. I really do. It’s like he robbed me of my whole life, everything I had and was. It’s gone, all of it. I used to be so strong. How can such a shallow jerk do this to an intelligent woman? I don’t understand. I am in torment all the time and it is killing me. I hate myself because even after leaving me to die on more than one occasion, I still am afraaid he’ll find a way to get me back and I don’t want that to happen. I am so weak right now. You guys have had some time, all of this just hit me in the face. I knew something was wrong but I couldn’t put a name on it. I can certainly say that now, I can.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 6:04pm
sassysarah says:
Also, I have been reading how some of you want to strike back at your S. So do I. When I would strike back, he made me feel like the most horrible person in the world when I talked to him, like everything was my fault. I did strike back and I don’t regret it now. He is so evil, he had it coming. Yet I know that striking back still ties me to him and I need to stop that entire thought process. He isn’t worth it. I know I need to move on and I want to. I know to avoid all contact but there is so much I want to say to him. Again, though, after reading all of these blogs I understand that even if I had the opportunity to tell him what I want to tell him, it would do no good. He isn’t capable of seeing himself as being wrong and he would only take what I said and make me think it was all because of me, that it was all my fault. Oh my God, I have been on this site all night and all day and I am blown away. Why didn’t I recognize this sooner?
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 7:10pm
JaneSmith says:
Sassysarah,
I surely did not wish to make you cry, but I can understand implicitly that yearning for simple human kindness and when it is given with no ulterior motives whatsoever, it feels wonderful, doesn’t it?
And I will link a few powerful, valuable articles that I hope you read. And the comments are also wonderful, inspirational and healing:
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....sychopath/
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....sociopath/
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....-betrayal/
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....i-move-on/
If you’re feeling a little overwhelmed with the surplus of information, knowledge added to your already overwrought precious heart, just take your time. You don’t need to rush anything.
Simply take deep, full, pleasing breaths and be extra, extra gentle with yourself. Please don’t beat yourself up any more than you’ve already been beat up. You’re a good, wonderful, loving, intelligent woman who had the dismal misfortune to fall in love with a predator.
Bless you, SS, I will say a special prayer just for you tonight. *big cyber hug for you*
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 7:24pm
JaneSmith says:
Seems I’ve broken Rule #4, Donna.
Forgive me as desparate times call for comfort and consideration.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 7:41pm
sassysarah says:
You hit the nail on the head when you said I yearned for simple, human kindness given unconditionally. I have only had that from my precious children. I have four and they are so wonderful, successful and good. One is a professional football player that beat the hell out of this guy but I still continued with him. What hurts me so much now is that this jerk was able to make me think my kids hated me. Nothing could be further from the truth. When I am not with him, they want me with them all the time but they saw through him way before I did. They hate him, HATE him for all he has done to me and somehow I chose him over them. I am so ashamed to say that but I have to. I was so absorbed into him that I thought I could do the impossible and make everyone love each other. Wow!! What a joke. I almost lost my kids forever. They were so much smarter than me. They refused to have anything to do with him because of how he treated me, left me to die, literally walked over me, trashed me, abused me, ruined me. They were right all along. What I don’t understand is how I couldn’t see it. Why didn’t I see it?
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 7:57pm
takingmeback says:
Thank you Donna for the guidelines and for this site. My words don’t even break the surface in describing how much LF means to me and what a vital role it has played in my recovery.
I’ve only recently started to share but have been reading off and on for several months getting reassurance and learning new information. The men and women on here have hearts of gold in their courage to share openy about the abuse they’ve endured and to allow others to walk with them through their pain and along their road to recovery. Their insights, self discoveries and thoughtful words of encourgement are so valuable.
Thank you for giving us a place to learn, to vent, to cry, to share, to stumble and fall and to get back up. A place where we can learn to laugh again and to love knowing that we are not alone.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 @ 11:33pm
uksurvivor says:
Donna
I too would like to thank you for this site. I was already a long way down the road of my recovery before I found it but I have still found great comfort here. Reading other people’s stories helps to reinforce what I’d eventually managed to work out - that is, I’m not the psychopath, no matter how many times he told me I was. He is the psychopath.
I cant find words to describe the feeling of finally finding people out there who ‘get it’. I once felt completely and utterly alone and my whole being would cry out for some understanding. Now, that feeling has gone, gone forever and the joy I feel to know that I wont ever have to feel that loneliness again is indescribable.
SassySarah
My heart goes out to you. I remember feeling the things that you are feeling now. Just reading your post brings it all back like it was yesterday. When I was first with the S, I had 2 small children from my 1st marriage. The S didn’t like having them around and I was always tying myself in knots trying to keep them from annoying him so that he’d be happy. I didn’t realise then that he would never be happy, no matter what I did. At one point, I almost let them go to live with their father just to try to please the S. I thank God that something held me back. I felt ashamed that I could even consider such a thing but over time I have come to realise that there is no need for shame. The S twists your mind so effectively that it’s impossible to think straight. Dont ever feel ashamed. The shame is on them.
It has taken me many years to reach the point that I am at now. That’s mainly because I had to do all this on my own. I didn’t know about this site. So stay with us Sassy, keep talking and talking and talking. Ask questions. Let it all out. You will gain so much comfort here and one day you will look back, see how far you’ve come and you’ll be amazed.
It’s good to meet you.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 12:35am
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Sassy, I just gotta say I understand exactly where you are coming from. My first husband was very much like the one you are describing, and always somehow made his failures my fault. My second drove my kids away, and somehow I was too terrified to get away and choose to put them first. And they are now the most precious things in my life. Reading your story brought it all back in a painful way, but I hope you will hold tight to the suggestions and prayers you will find here at this site, these people are wonderful and caring.
Jane, your compassionate words never fail to comfort me, even when they are directed at someone else. I would have liked to have a sister like you.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 2:04am
wiserandhealing says:
Sassy
My heart goes out to you …right through the abyss and into the core.
I am so glad you found this site. What you just described is exactly what myself and likely most readers on this site experienced and understand to the point where we think you are actually describing our own partner/experience.
It doesn’t make sense…does it. None of it. At least it doesn’t at first but slowly through this site, research and endless self refection the senselessness slowly but SURELY dissipates.
The rude awakening (understatement) is realizing the existance of this kind actually isn’t just Hollywood. It’s face smacking and makes you question if you’ve been living a sheltered life all these years.
How could this possibly happen to someone whose entire life has been noble, truthful, contributing and loving? Logically, (or factually) we’re strong, intelligent, giving, compassionate, enthusiastic, humble, caring…the list is endless…and at the end of the day these same traits have been used as weapons towards us.
It’s so hard to comprehend that one person, in such a short amount of time, can carve up these qualities in us so much so that we can’t even see any longer what the hell the original art was.
I ask myself all the time…what kind of power is that ? How is that possible? to make me question such truth? and then…for me to sickenly..embarrassingly.. ask…was I really that inconfident to begin with? What power is this? To make me doubt myself.
Now that’s power. Goal number 1 for them.
I had a fairly normal upbringing, married in my late 20’s once for 10 years to a great guy but we just married too young so divorced very amicably 3 years ago. I’m a professional, independent and very successful and happy with my career choice. After being out of the single scene for a decade was a bit scared a but so excited and optimistic.
9 months later I met..”The bad man”. I am quoting another blogger on that name because on every level..that’s the best name …the guy I shouldn’t have taken the candy from. (nevermind gotten in the bloody van)…(sorry Aloha..hope you don’t mind me using it…love it)
Looking back…my Prince charming would have been “bad man’s short little cousin for me…but that of course could have been because I was in a sparkless marrige for ten years but regardless…I was ripe and he came galloping by. I was so swept up by his gorgeous looks, charm and uncanny ability to make me laugh uncontrollably.
Prince bad man started unravelling fairly quickly in hind sight… but initially I never realized I was actually a component in RISK. Before I knew it I was left defending one country (my soul) while the entire time his strategy was making me look in the sky while his army’s invaded. I was being told how precious and unique and beautiful I was. Constantly heard “you’re the only one who knows me. I’ll never find another you”. Text messages daily as I awoke “good morining beautiful”. All day long I’d get “I miss you” texts etc. Now…NOW I know that is/was all the strategy in taking over the countries. And now I think…How bloody vein can you be girl? I just loved the attention.
Then there was the sexual aspect. God it was like the guy was my in my own body…never felt close like that to anyone…suddenly the cocaine addiction he induced moved to crack.
All the while this goes on I’m finding myself having no problem giving him money. He always had an excuse for why he was victimized from either his employer, family or friend. Once he injects my veins with the crack lies (diversion of truth) I’m just a pity machine because how can such a caring sensitve man be so hard done by from society.
So I started giving him a bit of cash all in the understanding he will pay back once …A…B…C…occur. But that’s when things started getting worse…
Next thing I know I am wearing shirts which he feels are too provocative. Beleive me…this was like telling me I look like Grover all of a sudden. (”wait…I’m not even wearing blue I say!”) That’s the last thing someone would likely say about me…I’m somewhat jockey..kind of conservative and..in a profession where I need to be quite self aware. I’m a nurse…if that means anything..but you only see those in porns…which I later found in his closet.
Then..the male friend thing became such an issue that ..of course I was sleeping with them. He tried to ruin every relationship I had…males first but also female.
That’s when I first found out about the other women. He was soooo busy accusing me of infedelity that I was so sidetracked defending myself I wasn’t questioning him. I thought “boy does he ever care about me to be so concerned” He was my Prince.
Keep in mind all this was intermitent. I was being fed the crack in between all the invisible bombs and stabbings. I think that is their greatest skill. God I loved that crack and I know that now I see it for what it actually was. A diversion. Before I saw it as his true feelings…he thought so highly of me…appreciated me…loved me..”I want to marry you..you are my true love’. God if I hear “You are my true love” ever again in my life time …well lets just say I feel sorry for the guy who says that to me.
I could go on and on and as I’m sure every blogger could….and I already know I have enough. In brief, it got nasty…it got scary…it got insane. I don’t say those 3 words lightly…it really got to a survival mode that I only could have previously conceived being in if I was abandoned on some desolate island. At least the island I ended up on in this reality had police.
I knew I had to get out…and I did…but then ridiculously would miss the hell out of him (the crack) and I couldn’t understand why. I couldn’t talk to anyone because they already thought I was insane to have kept in this game for as long as I had. I’ve had relapses…but just about everyone in recovery has those and each time I have become stronger and stronger.
This sight has been my sanity. Everyone here understands. We’ve all been seeing the same person…male or female. They are all the same give or take minor details. Liars that get off on feeling powerful.
I used to want payback too… big time.. but realized firstlty, that’s not me and gonna take alot of work, secondly, that to do that only continues the game…which is exactly what they want.
The best payback is to end the game because it cuts off their oxygen. Once there’s no game…no air. That’s why they so quickly move to the next host without a second thought. Survival.
I have been reading this site now for two years. I don’t write much cause I feel repetetive with the same bloody story basically but I read and learn. I think about what life was like just over ten years ago without internet and how the heck people got through these experiences.
I am still moving through the fog but I see colour now more and more and I know that’s more and more of me.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 6:00am
Donna Andersen says:
JaneSmith,
I’ve modified rule #4. When a someone posts asking for help, feel free to respond. And thank you for responding to SassySarah.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 7:20am
Benzthere says:
Thank you Donna. Still looking out for us after all these years . . .
Benz
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 10:42am
JaneSmith says:
Kat,
Ok, you caused me to have a great big lump in my throat and my heart to swell. All I could say to your words is…”awww..that’s the sweetest thing to say ever!”
Thank you, doll, and I would love to be your sister even if only a cyber LoveFraud sister. **Huggs**
WiseandHealing,
What you wrote was powerful, brilliant and so comforting to me and hopefully to SassySarah. I wasn’t here two years ago, so you reliving your story is appreciated and is so very important for me and I’m sure, for all the lovely peeps on this website. Thank you.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 11:36am
CellStemCell says:
yep, I remember 1 year ago it would take 3-4 days for one post to get 10-12 comments, now by the end of the day each post gets 10-20 comments easily…
By the way, how many people visit this website every day Donna?
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 7:22pm
blondie says:
i feel like im addicted to this website. this website is part of my daily life. it has helped me alot and it helps get though everyday. this is the only place i can get my thought and feelings out to others who understand
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 7:48pm
alohatraveler says:
CellStemCell,
I think Donna said awhile ago that it was 700 or was it 7000? Lots! To all of the folks who don’t comment…
HI! How are you doing?
To the person who has been thinking about saying something but you are in too much pain… go ahead! Get it out!
:o)
Blondie.. it’s better to be addicted to LF that to a Sociopath. At least you know that the people here are commited to your well being and not to the destruction of you for entertainment,
Be addicted to LF for as long as you need. Pathological partners can really get under our skin and it takes a long time to get the toxin completely out.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 8:16pm
bird says:
Hello everyone. My name is bird and I am addicted to Lovefraud. (audience “hello bird”) I read it everyday because I will forget if I don’t. I will forget his nature and then one day he will get a hold of me and I will think he is normal. Therefore I read Lovefraud everyday, so I don’t forget.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 10:24pm
OxDrover says:
Hello, Bird, how is my Birdie baby? ((((Birdie))))) And my dear Bird, LF is a positive addiction, it keeps you from falling into “bad company” and keeps us all on the “straight and narrow” path to healing!
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 10:35pm
bird says:
baby birdie is so cuddly and fuzzy soft:)
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 11:03pm
henry says:
Hello I don’t want to call it an addiction, I prefer to call LF (life support). I will read here daily, to stay focused. I come here for support. I hope I can offer support and comfort to other’s. It was after I came out of the fog that I realized what evil I professed to love. I still think I am shell shocked at where I went. I was so desperate for support. I still can’t comprehend how another human can do what (they do) but they do and life goes on for all of us. We have to find (our) way, and nothing has ever helped me as much as LF.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 11:04pm
tulip55 says:
All of your stories have me gobsmacked. It’s like I’ve already told mine………..same but different if you know what I mean. I once went to an AA for Families meeting because my 2nd husband is an alcoholic. I sat there and listened to each and every one of those women tell their story and I could relate to them all. This is very much the same. It’s been 7 years since I left him and I’m still looking for answers. After reading a lot of these entries I now know that it wasn’t just the alcoholism. This might very well be what I’ve been needing. Not a single day goes by without me thinking of him, and I hate it. The changes he made once I was gone didn’t fit the sad, depressed, pathetic creature he depicted. Like many of you I thought it was my fault that he was depressed even though he was like that when we first got together. He married a very young woman 18 months after I left. They worked together and she was married at the time as well. He used to tell me about her marriage woes and I’d say that she should leave because she’s young enough to start again. How dumb can one be??? I trusted him completely. He denies anything was happening before I left of course. Isn’t that part of the pattern??? There’s so much more but I don’t want to overdo it my first time on. You’re all amazing and I’m sticking around.
Thursday, 24 July 2008 @ 11:54pm
alohatraveler says:
Hi Tulip55,
Glad you found us.
Our stories seem so strange until we stumble onto a community where there are so many that are like our own.
It does help with the healing…. :o)
Aloha
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 12:47am
CellStemCell says:
OK…I am getting it out - sociopaths BURN in HELL.
Seriously… bible proverbs say somewhere that “there are people who cannot sleep well, unless they did something evil that day” something like that. Just plain evil, something without the integrity, all they can do is to destroy other people’s lives. This is what they do for living.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 2:49am
Donna Andersen says:
Cell Stem Cell
Lovefraud averages over 1,000 visits per day. About half of visitors are repeat visitors.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 8:06am
OxDrover says:
LF is not alone on the net as a support group for suvivors either, there are HUNDREDS of them. Some more specific as Adult Children of Narcissists, etc. some Christian based, and other groups. I just think that LF is THE BEST and the most supportive with GOOD INFORMATION. The bloggers here seem to me to be above average in intelligence and knowledge and also in caring and compassion.
It is nothing but a “gut reaction” to me, but it seems to me that when a “newbie” comes here and posts that they seem to “get it” and to start to recover FASTER than on any other of the blogs I have seen. Of those that do post, it seems that within a very short time, they are actually giving good advice to others. That isn’t “scientific” at all, but just my observation.
It is quite often too that people do post something like “I’ve never posted here before, but I’ve been reading for a year” and there isn’t really any way to measure or know just how much knowledge and support those silent people have gained, but obviously they have gained something or they would have been “reading” for X period of time.
For many of us our “healing” has been over a period of years from “the P experience(s)” and though many of the experiences were romantic, there are others that have been friendships or parents or all of the above. The thing that seems the most “interesting” to me is that the INTENSITY of the experience for any victim is so much more than anything we have experienced in any other capacity.
I have a close friend whose only really “big” experience with a P was when her P was promoted to be her boss, and immediately fired her because she had previously rejected his drunken romantic advances when they were professional peers. That’s been 7 years ago and she is still reeling from the humiliation and anger. No one likes to be fired for any reason but the INJUSTICE of it, the public humiliation, etc. is something that still grates on her self esteem. Ultimately she got a much better position and it was an unwitting favor this man did for her, but still….it’s something she will always remember with anger and humiliation.
The support toward healing that LF provides for anyone who has dealt with or been victimized by a psychopath in any role is without price as far as I am concerned. I have directed several people to this site, none of whom have posted, but I know from talking to them that they have received supportive and beneficial help from this site. One of them has been my own son C, who just one year ago next week survived the attempt on his life made by his X wife and her lover. The recovery and healing he is experiencing I think is very much benefited by the things he has read here, that we then can discuss. There is no way I can express my gratitude enough for this site and the wonderful people here. I daily thank God for this site.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 10:59am
JaneSmith says:
There’s a part of me that is relieved that so many people have found LoveFraud, in seeking answers to their relentless pain and suffering.
But there’s the other part that is saddened by the fact that a website like this is even necessary. And that there are so many confused, hurt victims still out there trying to understand why they are being ruthlessly, systematicly annihilated by a predator.
As Aloha said, for any readers out there who really want to write in but are afraid of being criticized or alienated by the members, that ain’t gonna happen. Ever. You all have something important to say, you all have your very own distinct lovable voices and this is your time to begin the path to healing. Today.
Someone will always be there to listen and care.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 11:14am
little says:
no one will believe a word i say. i’ve been laying on the floor thinking that i would surely die . . . that no one could keep enduring this . . . that pure stress, no blood was the only thing in my body . . . but every day I wake(?) up to the same miserery. i went to my doctor to get some help to sleep. i tried to tell him i was in an abusive situation, and he just told me that “marriage is difficult” and “it takes two people” and “forgiveness” is the best medicine. he finally prescriped something to help me sleep, but it was the same thing as prescribed several years earlier and it hadn’t worked for me. i tried to tell him this, but he didn’t want to hear me. while i was at this appointment i found out my H called another of my doctors to get a refill of my pain meds for himself. i went to a therapist and he told me i was too sleep deprived to talk to. he told me to call my doctor again for different sleep meds. i told him i had already tried. he just told me to get sleep and call him in 3 weeks. i called back to my doctor to get different sleep meds and they called my H at work. he finally prescriped something different, just a few pills.
i finally slept last night . . . but i’m in the same nightmare . . .
i can’t get any help. my H is diagnosed as a sociopath but no one understands what it means. everyone thinks i’m unstable. my own dr (who knows about the diagonsis won’t talk to me - but calls H at work).
i don’t know how to get a handle on things . . .
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 12:43pm
JaneSmith says:
Oh, and if you feel associated shame in loving personality disordered individuals, fuggetabouit. I feel no shame, nada, zilch, zero, in loving not one, not two but at least four PDIs in the last 20+ years.
I also tolerated way too much bs, and forgave way too easily. I also allowed these men to treat me less than a dirty dish rag. I also believed these men in thinking I was ugly, stupid, worthless, useless, beneath their assumed superiority and arrogance.
Guess what? I am NOT what they would have me believe through their calculated abuse in an effort to destroy me.
I am a good, kind, loving, smart, witty, honest, compassionate, caring spirit and so are YOU!
Don’t let any man or woman rob you of the truth of yourself. You truly deserve the best that life has to offer you.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 12:51pm
JaneSmith says:
Ok, Little, I’m here…
I feel so incredibly sad for what you are suffering right now. I’m not the wisest member on LF, nor am I a professional therapist, but I’m hoping you have a friend or family members that can offer help, maybe a temporary sanctuary from your S husband?
Living with a sociopath is nasty, terrifying business as all the LF members can attest to. You’ve taken the first step by commenting on LF, now we need to see if you can maybe take the next step: finding some relief from your harrowing situation. Is there anyone that you trust that can help you?
You are in a scary place right now, and yes I DO believe every word you are writing. Emphatically. Predators can literally wreck a person’s mental, psychological, physical state to the point where we think we’re the crazy ones. Not so, Little, you are NOT crazy. Don’t believe it.
And it seems to me that you’re doctor is unfamiliar with Personality disordered people and receiving advice from him is counterproductive for you in seeking answers, help, comfort, support from your experiences. You say that he is aware of your S husbands diagnosis but he doesn’t seem to be aware of the extensive damage he is causing you. hmm.
Maybe you should locate a more compassionate, learned doctor and give this one the boot. I can’t tell you what you should do but I can offer a suggestion with the intent of helping YOU.
We are here for you, Little, and I hope you realize that we do care and we do believe anything you write as so many of us on here have lived some insane times with PDIs.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 1:10pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Little,
I am so sorry that you are experiencing such stress and pain and that no one will listen to you. I am a retired advanced practice nurse, and it saddens me that your physician won’t listen to you. Is there a way you can go to another physician or a psychiatrist. Someone who WILL get it and be able to help you.
I suggest that you call a shelter for abused women, you don’t have to go there, but they will UNDERSTAND AND BELIEVE YOU and be able to get you some support emotionally. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing, and that alone was used as TORTURE for prisoners of war, and if you are not a “prisoner of war” with a psychopath I could not find a better description. You have come to the right place here for support and understanding, but I think you need MORE than we can give and aren’t getting it obviously. Call the police to get the name of a shelter near you, they will know the number if it is not listed in the phone book.
Keep coming back here though and post and let us know how you are doing. The people here DO CARE and we DO UNDERSTAND cause we’ve been there. ((((hugs))))) and I will keep you in my prayers.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 1:16pm
alohatraveler says:
Little,
I agree with OxDover. Call a Women’s Shelter. You need a human being to believe you and validate what you are experiencing. They should have experience with the kinds of things you are going through.
Nothing makes me madder than that thing they do where they make us look crazy.
By the way, I would talk to the Police at this point about the situation. They do not have training with this. The Bad Man made me look crazy to a Police officer and it is quite a mind-F as we say.
Start by finding someone that believes you. You do need to leave this man before you completely self destruct.
We totally get what you are talking about. I don’t think I had it as bad as you but I recognize what you are talking about… sleeplessness, no where to turn.
Also, when you get help, it isn’t helpful to go back the the Sociopath and tell them… my therapist said…. blah blah blah about you! They don’t care and most likely he will attack you for getting help and make you feel like you have violated his trust by exposing personal problems or something whacked like that.
I am telling you think so that when he says it, you will realize it’s just part ot hte mind twisting formula… it’s not the truth.
You have a right to seek help and to rescue yourself out of this mess.
You are a person and your instincts are kicking in that you need help… this is what is right. Be prepared that whatever the S says… it’s not right even if it sounds a little bit right.. it’s not. NOT!
Hang in there….
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 1:29pm
alohatraveler says:
I meant to say.. I WOULD NOT talk to the police. By that I mean, I would not tell them all that is going on or try to get them to understand.
If you leave and you need a restraining order, I believe all you have to say is “I feel unsafe.”
Best yet, when you leave, let the Women’s Shelter assist you with these things. I didn’t go to a shelter.. I got on a plane and left the state!
It worked for me!
The Women’s Shelter people will listen to you and they will also likely know doctors and therapists that know how to work with victims of a Sociopathic abuser.
Good luck Little… We do understand you.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 1:33pm
JaneSmith says:
Little? Are you there? Please feel absolutely free to express any thoughts, feelings, any of the experiences you’ve had with your S husband, if you feel comfortable enough to do so.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 3:22pm
little says:
JaneSmith, oxdrover, alohatraveler,
i am here. thank you for responding.
i’m not sure where to turn. it scared me to death to call a shelter line . . . my H had me arressed 4 years ago (claiming domestic abuse). he withdrew his claim and the charges were dropped but i remain on a list of “abusers” in our county. after reading your posts, i tried to call 1.800 crisis and shelter numbers, but they just referred me back to my county (where, again, i’m listed as an “abuser”).
i’m truly at a loss of where to turn.
i appreciate your posts to me.
this is such a nightmare.
i’ve been married 16 years and i feel like any chances i had to leave are gone now. i don’t have a job . . . or any money . . or anyone who believes me . . .
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 4:10pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Hey Little, we believe you.
When I finally kicked my first husband out of my life, we’d been married 16 years, the police, social services, all our friends and even my own parents took his side.
How I managed to get away I don’t even know to this day, but it happened when I started acting calm, sane, and together. I wasn’t really any of those things by that point, but I knew my despair was making me look bad.
Two things I know are crucial…. distance, and a support group. If you distance yourself from your husband, you will feel so much better and less crazy every day, you will act more like your own self, start to remember who you are, and moreover, other people will have a chance to see him for what he really is.
If you get involved with a support group, even if you have to start with this online group, you will feel better and know you aren’t alone, and that you are believed.
Thirdly Little, and I hope you take this seriously, give YOURSELF permission to get out. You don’t need anyone else to believe you right now.. you have to believe in yourself enough to give YOURSELF a chance to get out. Otherwise he will consume your very life. Gotta love yourself girl.. please get a different doc. And you might sleep better if you get the hell out of there. Go stay with a friend or a relative if you have to… I had to take 4 kids to my grandmother’s house, but it was better than being with him. Good luck girl.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 5:48pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Minor correction we were married 14 years when I first started getting away but it took two years to completely separate from him. I had no job either and we were both wrapped up with our small business. I had to sort of divorce the business as well.
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 5:50pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Little,
Call the shelter locally, they know how the sociopaths work, and how they try to get US (you) labeled as an abuser for just defending yourself…don’t worry, call the LOCAL SHELTER and talk to them, tell them up front that your husband had you labeled and why. They have dealt with this before.
You are not a PRISONER and you have HUMAN RIGHTS. I wish I could reach out through the computer and help you, but unfortunately I can only give you advice, and I am with Aloha that you need a HUMAN BEING to validate you and help you.
The psychopaths want the victim powerless, no money, no friends, no family….so that they can keep you under their control. It may feel like you have no where to turn, but the local shelter will advise you, just be up front with them. They are your best resource now. Come back here any time and talk to us, we will be your “cheering squad” and will give you our best advice from the heart, but it’s all we can do to help you, except to pray for you and I know I can and will do that. (((hugs)))) BTW I believe in you!
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 5:52pm
alohatraveler says:
Little and Kat_o_nine_tales,
Kat… this sounds like you would have the best advice for Little. I wasn’t married, don’t have kids, and didn’t have that many years with Bad Man.
All I know is that there should be someone that will understand, once they speak to Little, why there would be a record on her being an abuser. Ooooo that makes me so mad at the butt face!!!
Little, I admire your strength. People think it is a weak woman that stays with an abuser but we know that it takes so much energy to cope with what you have been through. You still have some strength in you because you are reaching out. You are in the thinking process of making a plan. It’s not easy to leave one of these guys.
I have not worked for a Women’s Shelter but I did work for a Homeless Family Shelter and I bet it has some of the same elements.. like a case manager to help you get on your feet.
Take care Little… You can do it!
Friday, 25 July 2008 @ 7:08pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Well in my experience with the women’s shelters I tried.. they suck.
They seem convinced that every woman who comes there is a brainless victim.
Anyhow, no matter who you talk to.. except for your therapist, don’t let em see you sweat. Be calm, be firm, and be committed to getting away.
Little.. if you are anything like me one thing that is holding you back is sheer inertia. I barely had the energy to get through the day back then, nevermind try to organize a move. In fact if I hadn’t been convinced he was practicing to murder me, I don’t think I would have had the guts to get out.
But in the end, if you go under by his attacks, don’t let it be because you knuckled under and didn’t fight for your rights.. you have to fight, Little, you have to demand what’s yours.
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 1:42am
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Get angry Little.. get fighting mad.. part of depression and not sleeping is holding a terrible anger in check all the time, and fighting anxiety. Get mad.. and let anger do what it’s supposed to do.. protect you from being walked on.
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 1:44am
wiserandhealing says:
Little,
Please do not loose hope. Whatever you think and as alone as you may feel, there is a way out. Disregard the bars you see…they are an illusion. You are not stuck.
I’m so glad you found this site because even if it’s all you have right now, it will anchor your strength.
It sounds as though you are in a small town which undoubtedly makes things more difficult, especially if you already feel discreditable. Having no money is most definately an intimidating reality but that fact should not control your future…it is only temporary. First things first. Safety/sanity.
Oxy is right about the women’s shelter. The staff should be very aware of the many facets of abuse. They should also have a ton of resources for getting people the appropriate services they need whether it be housing, finances or counselling.
I am only familiar with how our services/systems work in Canada but can only hope if you are not from here that they are similar where you are.
I hope you will keep coming here for support.
This site is truly what kept me from loosing myself completely…which, if I hadn’t found it, would have most certainly resulted in becoming a vegetable or suicide. Noone truly understands what transpires in the clutches of this alien experience. Whether it’s mild or harsh, 3 months or 30 years in those socio clutches, the shock of living in it, through it, and suddenly realizing somehow you’ve disintegrated into dust specs… is just inconceivable to a person who has not encountered it. And that’s how the stigma goes on…the thinking that men/women are weak being in abusive realtionship. “why don’t they just leave? or…why does she/he stay?”. Aloha is so right that it is just the opposite living and enduring it….that takes bloody strength…the same strength that will propel you out.
We are here, beleive you and understand.
(((((Hugs)))))
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 1:52am
newworld view says:
little….i am so sad for you……do you have any family anywhere that you can stay with and get on your feet………if they are in the same county or another, you can still go to the womans shelter and with persistence will find a soul that DOES believe that you are being abused and isolated and will certainly realize that many spouses will accuse the other in an attempt to get the focus off themselves……….i had several police officers involved in my situation and although the first and captain of them was such a jerk and actualy immediately took the side of my ex creature and even wrote a report that i was ugly to him when i had him removed with nothing but essentials, the others were either impartial or supportive……..although he may have isolated you from family and/or friends, im sure there is someone who knows you are a good person and will elp……..if not, a church or a shelter will……….i agree your doctor and therapist are of no help….many times it takes several choices to find the right one……..frustrating, but true…….i find the courts usually are affiliated with therapists that are reasonable, less expensive, familiar with sociopathic behavior and will not turn someone away..they will try to find help for someone……..dont give up………………………additionally, until finding the right support, i have seen many people on this site……get farther along in their healing and developing strength to dig their way out of the situation…than in some that use a paid therapist……………one of the other posters mentioned to NOT tell your husband that you are seeking help…..SOOOO important….and hard to do…because they notice subtle changes and then become nice, to sucker us into believing them and sharing what we are doing…..dont fall for this, like so many of us did…………….finally, uou mentioned that he called one of your doctors and had a presription that was for you filled out for him…….i would immediately call that office and MAKE them make a note of that in YOUR chart……..that is ILLEGAL and you have put them on notice that if you want a mediction, only you are authorized to call for it…….unless you have given wrtten permission, they are NOT allowed to share any of your medical information even with a spouse……..you will put some fear in tthem and i would definitely find myself a new primary physician and when finding the right compassionate one, or a nurse practitioner, tell him/her about this………………sometimes having some action to take, makes you feel stronger, and i do hope you realize all this is said because we really do care about your life
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 8:44am
newworld view says:
in re reading my post it may have been confusing;;;;i understand that he had a prescription that was originally written for you, refilled in your name, but for him to use……..
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 8:48am
OxDrover says:
Dear Little,
One of the things I think that no one has mentioned that is very importnat is
DO NOT TELL HIM THAT YOU PLAN TO LEAVE. Start on your PLAN.
Right now, you need to start to get your plan in order, calling a shelter for help is only the first step. Unless you are in IMMEDIATE DANGER FROM HIM, in which case, run out of the house, call the cops, leave even if it means sleeping on the side walk. DO NOT LET HIM HURT YOU.
Don’t give him a clue that you have any plans, though. If possible, get some money, even a dollar or two and hide it in a place you have access to it.
get your personal papers, birth certificate, social security card, etc together in an envelope and put it where you can easily get it in case you have to flee quickly. Also, if you have access to his papers and he has assets that are in his name only, wirte down to name of the banks, the account numbers, make, model and license number of all vehicles he owns, and which company he is making payments to, account numbers ect.
Put your essential personal hygeine items in a spot all together, preferably in some sort of container that can be grabbed quickly, along with any medications you routinely take.
Get a “get away” package of clothes together and put it where he will not find it, or see any sign that you have a PLAN.
Little, I know when you are depressed it seems almost too much to get the energy up to get out of bed, much less put together a plan. Everything seems hopeless, and that is what he wants you to feel. he wants you off balance so he has all the power.
Getting MAD is good, it will give you strength, but don’t let your anger cloud your judgement. Keep everything secret from him. Don’t tell a soul that he knows.
Another source of help might be to call AA or Alanon, these people also deal with abuse and might be a good resource.
If your husband is taking the drugs (pain pills) that are prescribed for you, he is taking these narcotics illegally, so it is obvious he has some sort of substance problem.
Hang on, even by your fingernails, Little. and KEEP LOOKING for some help in this situation. THERE IS SOME HELP OUT THERE FOR YOU, you just have to NOT GIVE UP! (((hugs))) and you are in my prayers.
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 10:00am
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Yes Little,
If nobody will help you.. help yourself.. keep it a secret, and be firm.
Oxy.. I mentioned anger because right now she seems to be in despair of finding anyone to believe her and give her permission to get out. I remember that feeling so well. The anger is there, have no doubt about that. But at this point I’d almost rather see her run screaming than stay there.. she is so much like me I’m afraid her husband is also setting her up to lose her life.
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 8:13pm
James says:
Thanks for the posting guidelines! It is always nice to know the rules which keeps us all safe and happy.
I too take this (written text) into consideration when posting on LoveFraud or anywhere else. Misinterpretation is very easy whenever we write our feeling and thoughts. The best intentions can and will sometimes be misunderstood. So when I do comment or reply I try hard to proofread and spell check it as much as possible. Of course time is always a factor and I do make mistakes.
One question would be is it alright to “tell” others about this site and give them the link to the site which I do all the time. For me LoveFraud is a God sent. It has so much information and yes I too have seen some very good things come out of this site. I just wish more people who need this site would be able to find it faster. There are a few “sites” that I highly promote and Lovefraud is one! I have at times also posted the link on a blog when ever I hear a “cry” for help. If these people ever come here I don’t know and believe that isn’t what is important. Anonymity sometimes is best and still other times is of great important to the writer i.e. poster which I respect greatly.
As for me James is my real name and am proud to be a part of this site!
Saturday, 26 July 2008 @ 9:51pm
Donna Andersen says:
James,
Of course - tell anyone who can benefit about Lovefraud.
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 8:27am
Rose says:
Greetings. I’ve just registered with this site and I am overwhelmed with gratitude to find an up-to-date site dealing with this issue which has taken my 40 year old heart and turned it to stone. Mine is also a long story, and although I left our home in the USA 6 months ago to return to my home country and family, with our precious little child, the pain of what I went through in the past 7 years and mostly the past year as all the lies began to fall into place, is incredible. I look forward to speaking with you ( I have never written in to any site before) although I am feeling hesitant to even post this comment. I’m going to take it slowly. I just wanted to say thank you for being here and for the possibility that I have found people who will truly understand.
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 3:29pm
Beverly says:
Hi and Welcome Dear Rose. Well, you’ve made your first posting and well done for crossing that bridge. Some people here find it very therapeutic to post their story and their feelings. We all have different stories, but we find a solidarity in the fact that some of the details are similar, so take it at your own pace Rose and there are plenty of people who are very understanding here.
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 4:13pm
blondie says:
this lovefraud is my life. i find comfort in this website. i feel like im glued to the computer now a days. we have been broken up for a month and almost two weeks, and i feel like ive been walking in a daze that whole time. i still dont know who i am, dont know where i fit in. for two days now my cell phone has not rang with anyone calling. how sad is my life
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 5:46pm
JaneSmith says:
Hello Rose, and as Bev says…welcome to the LoveFraud fellowship.
Feel absolutely free to write what you wish to begin your own healing and recovery. We don’t judge, condemn or criticize any member on this site. And the possibility of causing disbelief is minimal, but we will be concerned for your safety and wellbeing.
We all have been through the wringer in loving personality disordered individuals, some experiences much more harrowing than others, but we all have the ultimate goal to learn the predictable patterns/behaviors of PDIs, to spend some quality time learning about ourselves through self examination as to how we became susceptible to PDIs in the first place, and then growing to learn to love ourselves implicitly.
This self love builds self esteem, confidence, strength and the utmost desire to generate positive, loving, fruitful future experiences.
This is the place for you to share, learn and grow from the relentless mental and physical anguish of loving a predator.
You are cared for and supported here, Rose.
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 9:28pm
JaneSmith says:
Blondie,
Girlfriend, do I need to come to your town/city and prove to you personally how wonderful, beautiful I KNOW you are?
Please, doll, give yourself a break. What? Hasn’t it only been like a month since you broke up with your X? Wow….I mean..wow…you’ve accomplished much more and much sooner than I have been capable in my many years of dating.
You are so very strong, and don’t you forget it. Do what you gotta do to make YOU happy. Depending on another person to provide that happiness is a fruitless endeavor. Trust me, believe me, I spent 20+ years waiting for that to happen. I didn’t and it won’t. I had to discover that happiness within myself, through the Loving and gracious Lord, who helped me realize that I can be happy today, not tomorrow, if I only gave myself a chance to believe in myself.
Hon, I am so very single and I have been on and off for the past 3 years. I seem to have a much better time when I’m not involved with a man, whether he is a pdi or not.
You can do this. You can restore the Blondie that was before your x. Give yourself plenty breathing room, plenty of genuine self love to further you along the path to freedom from duplicity, manipulation, LIES, unfaithfulness, just a serious bad, bad time for you.
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 9:43pm
blondie says:
Thank you JaneSmith!!!
i guess im kinda unsure what self love is? i feel like ive been doin what is best for me, lovin myself, but i think there is something deeper i must work on.
hope everyone had a good weekend!
Sunday, 27 July 2008 @ 10:26pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
Hey Blondie.. I know just how you feel. I try to think of it as if I was in a car wreck. Yeah it sucks sitting around feeling bad, but it’s temporary and helps you heal.. this site is my air sometimes. I loved my cheater bf so much I feel like I’m suffocating without him… talk about sad. Just last night I was so incredibly weak, and just the thought of all you fellow “freedom fighters” kept me from writing to him.
Rose.. so glad you are here.. I’ve only been here a short while but feeling so much stronger now (most of the time)
Worried about: Little.. how are you hon?
Southernman.. whazzup dude I miss you.
Monday, 28 July 2008 @ 9:10am
newworld view says:
its true about the freedom fighters ….i have felt the strength of this group and it has kept me from even considering going where i shouldnt……i want the irs to do something like cheryl said on another thread…i want so much ugly to happen to him, but then i think even if it did, would i feel less pain…and i think not….i would still be so befuddled that my true love, was just a dream….sigh
Tuesday, 29 July 2008 @ 6:52pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
You said it. I think I really just want to wake up and find out the whole thing was a nightmare. I want to hurt him, but not really I just want him to notice my pain, and to give a shit. But then again.. I just want to slink away, crawl into a hole somewhere and die.
Tuesday, 29 July 2008 @ 7:35pm
JaneSmith says:
Kat,
You better not disappear on us, woman. And no crawling into a hole, ok?
The pain you are feeling now is so very normal and natural. Eventually the anger, the fury will surface and supercede any and all grief. Go with it, hon. That anger is healing. It proves to you that you truly respect and love yourself and you are realizing that you didn’t deserve to be mistreated, to be used-abuse-devalued-and discarded.
Yes, it’s happened to me more times that I like, but I have made a solemn oath to myself that I will not allow such nastiness, such cruelty to be a part of my life ever again.
I remind myself of this oath daily, hourly, minutely so I don’t forget the crap I tolerated, endured, accepted at the foul, selfish hands of a predator.
You are super duper strong, super duper lovely and super duper great!! *hug*
Wednesday, 30 July 2008 @ 11:19am
susangrisanti says:
Oh how I wish my best friend had read this article
last year! In Jan 2007 she married a man
she met on the web, & only knew him ONE
DAY in person before they got married! yes,
only ONE DAY in person! After 4 months of pure
hell she managed to get out with her mind
& body intact, but it has taken well over a year
for her to begin to recover from the emotional
scars. I kept telling her ‘you can’t possibly really
know someone until you actually meet them in
person’ OH the things we do for ‘LOVE’
Thankyou for this wonderful website & keep the
articles coming!! Susan
Wednesday, 6 August 2008 @ 6:39pm
donnac1218 says:
I hope it’s okay to post my story. I am just feeling a HUGE connection to those who have posted on this site. I don’t know if I “qualify” as a victim, but hopefully I can gain some insight from everyone. My LONG story is below…
Met a guy in 1990 when I was 17, dated for 5 weeks, blah, blah…broke up because we were at different high schools, he moved out of state a year later in early 1992. Fast forward to the summer of 2004. Through Classmates.com, I connected with this man again. Turns out, we were both in marriages that had gotten a bit “boring” in our minds. We are both flirtatious by nature, so we commnicated via email every few months for over a year, nothing major.
Feb 2006…life changed for me forever. He was in Massachusetts visiting his daughter and called me up to meet. Why not, right? We met mid day at a restaurant with his 11 yr old daughter and her 9 yr old half sister, who calls him Daddy, also. Well..eyes locked, and I was transported to 1990. Within an hour of meeting, we ended up in a passionate kiss. (After the girls were home, of course) He met me the next day for a few minutes, kissed again and planned to meet for drinks with his friends the next night. Thanks to a lovely blizzard, that did not happen, however, we did exchange cell phone numbers and he went back to Arizona the following day.
We took our telephone/IM/Email/MySpace relationship to a deeper level, while we were both married. Not proud of it, but I couldn’t fight my feelings. We could talk for HOURS…and did, every day for a year. The I love you’s started early on and we felt our feelings from high school never fully vanished.
March 2007. He visited again. His daughters and my daughters met and spent the day together. I met his friends from high school. He stayed at a local hotel and I spent every night there until at least 2am. Things got emotional and physical…and in the truest sense of the word, I CHEATED on my husband. From that moment on, I knew things were serious. I sent him gifts like a digital camera to take pictures to send to me of the children, gifts for his children, gift cards, clothes, Red Sox, Patriots and Bruins stuff..several thousands of dollars worth of stuff over the months. I wanted to see him happy, so I thought those things might make him smile.
I traveled to Arizona in August 2007 with his daughters and spent a week there. My husband, not thrilled, but thought I needed a vacation. Well…I got one. Spent a week in a hotel suite with his daughters, as well. Met his three other children (2 from his marriage at the time, 1 from a previous relationship) and many of his friends. I also got to meet a friend from MySpace that I met through him which was great! We went to the Daughtry/Nickelback concert, which I will never forget. We also exchanged “committment vows” in Sedona, AZ on August 17, 2007 and exchanged rings, to be each other’s soulmate forever. Tears were shed when I left with his daughters on Aug 19th. Forgot to mention that just prior to my visit, his wife threw him out…so his sister graciously took him in. Though while I was there, he stayed at the hotel with us. Mind you, this whole trip and plane tickets for all three of us was paid for by ME…as well as the hotel and a rental SUV for the week.
Enter Dramageddon 2007… John (yes, that’s his first name) had a good friend that is a female from work, whom I was always a little suspicious of their relationship. Thought it was more than he let on…he always denied it up and down. In early September, it was “announced” that this friend was pregnant, and expecting in just 4 weeks. John laughed at the thought that this child could be his, because they had never been intimate! Suffice to say…that was not the case.
The blessed event happened on October 1st and their daughter was born. He denied for weeks that this was his child and she never revealed anything, either. Well…then John went away for a long weekend in late October with his children to Mexico…oh, and the wife, as well. During this time, the “baby’s mom” contacted me to let his eldest child, who lives in MA, know that if she wants to know about her little sister, she could ask anytime. WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait, what??? Yes, she confirmed this latest child, (his fifth biological with a fourth woman) was in fact, his. He had been at the hospital when she delivered and promised to take care of them both. He denied this child up and down to this point.
Ok…so all hell broke loose. The baby’s mom and I compared notes, including the dozen purple roses he sent me just one week before at work and the ring he bought me in Sedona. I learned all about the baby and how he spent many nights at her apartment with she and the baby. After much chaos, he admitted the truth to us both, and we told him to go to hell, or so we thought. A few days later, I broke down emotionally. John’s sister, whom I had developed a very close friendship with and whom he was living with, even flew to Massachusetts for the weekend because I was so upset. On my way to get her at the airport, my husband called. Apparently, the relationship with John and I was revealed to him by a friend of mine and confirmed by another. So, I was at the airport picking up his sister, BAWLING my eyes out. I was on the phone with John when I got there (and he was trying to work things out between us at this time) and his sister handed me a box. In this box was a 1/2 ct. past present future, 3 stone diamond ring set in white gold. I broke down in tears. I asked him what it meant, and he said he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. Oh…this was getting intense.
That same night, his wife was told about the baby by the new baby’s mom at a party. Apparently, there was also some “new family time” at this party. So now he is trying to make it work with me…and the new mom….while not letting his wife find out too much. Makes sense. NOT! A week later, I decided that I had to face him in person and make hardcore decisions about our relationship. My husband said I should go, assuming I would be breaking it off. Truthfully, I didn’t know WHAT would happen. I took a week off work (unplanned, which led to the demise of my career) and went to Arizona. I stayed with him at his sister’s apartment, spending much time with his children and family. We had a big fight, but in the end, he proposed in person, with the ring. I left teary eyed again, but with the promise that we would be married. I got off the plane, called my husband and said we would be going through with the divorce and I was planning to be with John, most likely in Arizona.
Early December, I am very suspicious of his actions. He was testy, defensive and we fought all the time. We agreed to take a 3 day break from speaking, then decide where we were headed. Oh that was a hellish 3 days. It got worse, because on the 3rd day, he said he wanted to be with the baby’s mom. I was crushed beyond belief. I couldn’t believe this was happening just a few weeks after he professed his love for me with a ring!! We agreed to be friends. In the meantime, it was Christmas season and I was without a fiance and in the process of a divorce. My husband, who always wanted it to work, called off the divorce. We agreed to make it work, if I cut contact with John. Yea…that didn’t last.
**********
Within a week of John’s decision to end our relationship, we were talking every day and admitting our love and attraction was still very strong. He claimed the baby’s mom was not Miss Right, but Miss Right NOW. He said he was with her for the sake of the baby…period. His sister came to visit again on Christmas day and we had a wonderful time! He sent gifts for me and his daughters, along with birthday and Christmas cards for me, professing his love and calling me his angel, as he always had.
Mid-January…he was tiring of the baby’s mom. She was suspicious of every move he made and every time he spoke to me. With GOOD reason, I say! He couldn’t take her “insecurities” and supposedly broke up with her in the third week of January. The same week, he lost his job over this drama with her, so he claims. I sent him hundreds of dollars to pay his sister for rent, pay his phone bill…even use my credit card as an authorized user. My husband found out about $1500 in money transfers to him and called the lawyer to restart the divorce…but after a few weeks, decided to work things out with me again. I didn’t know what was happening and was confused, so I went with it.
In late February, he came for a 3 day weekend to visit. (I paid for the plane tickets and hotel, as well as all meals and entertainment) It was just me and his friends, as he felt just seeing his daughters for a few hours would be too emotional for them. Now I have to wonder why I agreed to that theory. His friends, well OUR friends, and I had a birthday party for him at his hotel. We had dinner with my friend from high school and her fiance. We also went into Boston for a great night with a friend of HIS from high school and her fiance. He proposed again with the ring at Nantasket Beach. When he left, it was to take care of business so we could be together…most likely in MA. This whole time, he is only talking to the baby’s mom for the sake of the baby…or so he says.
His sister, at this point, is sick of him not working, not contributing and causing emotional drama with the baby’s mom, the soon to be ex-wife, the children, me…it was A LOT. She tells him he is going to have to leave. In the meantime, he agreed to move to Boston to be with me and be closer to his daughter here and her sister, his “pseudo-daughter” as he affectionately calls her. Drama was mounting leading up to this move. It got really bad, I couldn’t concentrate at work…and though it was a “business decision”, I was laid off in mid March. He was still coming to live here, though! So…I had to prepare financially, as I was already over $20,000 in debt, mostly for things for him.
I raced to get a place to live, and rented the first floor of a house about 20 minutes away. The woman who lived there needed the extra money, so we got a bedroom and living room to ourselves, while sharing the kitchen, bathroom, laundry, deck and yard. $750 plus security deposit. I then needed to get a bed…$480. I paid for John to fly here on April 7th. Told my husband I was leaving for a while, needed to figure out where my life was headed and that yes, I was still in love with John. (Enter, divorce back ON) John and I got our little home set up and spent hundreds on a TV, internet access, cable, food, linens, organizers…. I was paying for every meal and driving everywhere. Didn’t matter, I wanted this to WORK! I was in love and we were going to make this happen. He introduced me at a wedding as his fiancee to everyone we met. He told his daughters that we were going to get married and showed them the ring that he, once again, put on my finger.
April 21st…he gets a call saying he needs to be back in AZ for a divorce hearing in 7 days. WHAT????? Ok…nice notice. I had no desire to have him leave, but what could I do? He had to go because, as he said, he can’t marry me without getting divorced first. He swore he would be back in less than a week. His mom said she would put him on a plane herself if she had to! I reluctantly paid for another plane ticket on a Wednesday evening, and he left that next morning. While he was gone, I stressed over the fact that he wasn’t keeping me informed of his plans on coming back. Said he was going to drive back in his car. I had given him my Target card to buy formula and diapers for the baby while he was there and gave him my debit card for the trip. (I had taken out my 401k savings of almost $7,000 prior to him leaving) I told him to spend whatever he had to to fix his car for the trip. His mother (who had been foreclosed on because, as SHE says, I didn’t give her $5000 to keep the house) was moving that same week. He had a court meeting on a Monday and planned to leave on Tuesday. I knew something was strange when he didn’t call me and got very angry when I tried to call him to find out the status. Needless to say, I told him he better not break up with me over the phone and make me ship all his stuff back and move out alone. He assured me he wouldn’t. Well…I purchased ANOTHER plane ticket for him to come back to Boston that following Monday. I swore I wouldn’t pay for another one, either. He would have to find another way back to AZ if he left again. That night he arrived, we had dinner and agreed to “make this happen”. Strangely, his suitcase was almost empty. Just 2-3 changes of clothes. He claims it was all still at his mother’s house and he forgot to pack everything.
I bought picture frames for the walls to put pictures of his children in. We spent a day at the beach having lobster and talking about how we would make our marriage work. Though during this time, he was insistant that he should get back to AZ for me to arrive, because Boston wasn’t going to work for us. I wanted him, so I agreed AZ was the place to live, once again.
Mother’s Day weekend…oh, it gets interesting. He was depressed, said he missed his children (oh, no feelings for the ones HERE that he barely sees?) but we agreed that we would book him a flight on Sunday for that week and I would prepare to move to AZ. We got tattoos in RI that Saturday, I spent close to $900 on them, as I got a purple rose on my ankle and a Celtic angel he chose for my lower back. He got a Boston Bruins/tribal armband and an angel kanji, for ME. I paid for a nice hotel that night as we had dinner and drinks with friends…another few hundred dollars.
Mother’s day, we had breakfast and a huge argument that day. I told him I wasn not convinced that he was not still with the baby’s mom, as he always hid every sign of me from her…and her “myspace drama” was all about how they were still together. Soooooo…he gave me his word that he would make US work, that he would convince HER that there was nothing there and that she can’t threaten to not let him see the baby unless he’s WITH her. I reluctantly booked another flight for the next day back to Arizona. I left him at the airport on May 12th…the last thing he said was that he was getting things ready for me to move there and to give him a few weeks to get a job and get a place for us to live. I had to pack up the place we were staying in…after paying another $750 for the month of May…had to leave the brand new bed there as I had no way to take it with me and couldn’t deal with the girl who lived there anymore. Billy (my husband) agreed to let me move back to my house. The girls never knew, since I put them to bed every night, and drove to the house at 4:45am every day so Billy could go to work. I also drove John to see his daughters while I was there every evening.
Within a week, things were just not right. More myspace drama with the baby’s mom saying that they got an apartment for them and the baby. WHAT????? He denied that one up and down. I mailed him some of his things that he left behind in Weymouth, along with personalized Red Sox, Pats and Bruins hats and a photo of Fenway Park for the wall. He became more distant and argumentative as the days went on, still denying any relationship with the baby’s mom. Worrying how he was going to pay child support for the two children from his recently divorced wife, as well as back child support for his two other biological daughters. He never applied for unemployment in January, either….and to my knowledge, is still not working.
So…early June 2008…turns out the baby’s mom and he moved in together. He still attempts (and succeeds) to talk to my on his last break at work. (He’s making barely minimum wage working stock overnights) He claims he still loves me and calls me his soulmate and angel…STILL!!!
Should I be angry? Yeah…probably. I mean, I am. I am just so hurt that he seems to have left me, used … and hasn’t even admitted to me that he moved in with her, but I know he has from his family members and her myspace drama. (She delights in posting how wonderful their little family home is and how they are talking about moving to the next stage in their relationship) Yea, it hurts. It’s painful to a level I never knew before. How can she win? After all I did to make us work? It breaks my heart to think I wasted so much time making things right for us. Down to paying his cell phone bill for several months…even after finding out he pays for the baby’s mom’s cell on his bill, too!! He just FORGOT me! Was I that bad in the relationship? I forgave him for so much and tried to help him in every way I could. I guess it was never enough. I have been driving my friends crazy by not being more upset or just let him go. I can’t forget so much. Just over 4 weeks ago, we were still engaged and I was moving to Arizona. Now this??? To top it off, my husband, Billy, STILL wants to work things out with me. (enter, calling off divorce again)
So, now I get to file for bankruptcy. I have to take my daughters out of the private school that they love because I now have too many expenses to pay and can’t afford it. The worst part? I still miss this guy!
Wednesday, 6 August 2008 @ 10:01pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
know how you feel but gotta say.. red flags everywhere that guy must have been one hell of a talker. I would be real thankful you didn’t get pregnant.. and I know you’re hurt.. but I think your husband sounds like a bigger victim than you hon.
Wednesday, 6 August 2008 @ 11:23pm
kat_o_nine_tales says:
OH and Jane.. I love ya gf.. you made me smile. Is it ok to give out my email on here? it’s not a very big secret.. kind of an all purpose email.
Wednesday, 6 August 2008 @ 11:25pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Donna,
Welcome Donna,
We’ve all been scammed by one or more of the psychopaths. I suggest that you read and read and read, and learn as much as you can about psychopaths. They are pretty much cut out by the same cookie cutter as far as the fact that they are LIARS LIARS LIARS, and that there is NO HOPE that they will get better. They are USERS USERS USERS. They hold out this “great hope” of a “soul mate” to us and we fall for it until it all comes crashing down on our head.
You’ve come to the right place to learn and to heal. Knowledge=power and we have to learn in order to heal and get back on with our lives.
Good luck, and welcome.
Wednesday, 6 August 2008 @ 11:49pm
holywatersalt says:
Donna-
Stop thinking of you. Start with the husband and children.
I don’t know if you shoudl go back to your husband- I mean if he’s a decent guy, he hardly deserves what you’ve done and continue to do.
And your poor children- wake up. The psycho user is the least of your problems…get a mirror. I say this sincerley- stand up and be a mother- get some character and do the right thing by people who obviously love you.
Thank you for another example of why I should run like hell from my psycho.
Wednesday, 6 August 2008 @ 11:58pm
donnac1218 says:
kat_o_nine_tales, thank you! You are absolutely correct in that my husband was a bigger victim. It’s nauseating that I cannot just be HAPPY with HIM, but that’s work that I will need to get to once I get over this disaster. I mean, I feel like I need to get past it before I can move on in my marriage…that is, if that makes ANY sense. Yes, I am SO thankful that I did not end up pregnant. Sadly the current girlfriend/baby’s mother is