8 steps to recovery from the betrayal of a sociopath
Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader; we’ll call her Lisa. In one short paragraph, Lisa conveyed the betrayal, rage, pain and hopelessness that we’ve all felt:
If a stranger broke into my house and stole all my valuables and then burned the rest. If I was left homeless and broke. I would be angry. I would be damaged. But I would recover. The person who did this slept in my bed and held me tight and told me he loved me every day. He told me that we were moving overseas and that everything should go. Stop paying the mortgage. Sell your furniture for cheap. Burn the rest. I did it. He disappeared with my jewelry and cash. I feel that I cannot recover. I am devastated. I am bitter. I am obsessed with my hatred and can’t smile or laugh. I need a psychiatrist. I dream of stabbing him. I am a loving and forgiving person that can’t find grace. I try to forgive and recognize my own fault. I fail. I need help with this.
Had an unknown criminal ransacked Lisa’s home, she would be justifiably outraged, and perhaps afraid for her safety. But the man who plotted and schemed to crush her was a man that she trusted, a lover who talked about their exciting future together in a faraway land.
It was cruelty beyond belief. It was the shattering of trust.
A few months back I wrote about a book called Legal Abuse Syndrome. The author, Karin Huffer, writes, “the most profound loss is loss of trust.”
That is what makes these experiences so painful. We trusted someone with our hopes, our dreams, our love. That person probably spoke eloquently about trust to us, in words full of shining promise. And it was all a lie.
Now we don’t know whom we can trust. And we’re pretty sure that we cannot trust ourselves.
So how do we recover?
8 steps for recovery
Huffer provides an outline for recovery in her book. Although the steps are geared to helping people recover from the outrages of the legal system, which has a tendency to make our bad situations even worse, I think the steps are useful for anyone recovering from the betrayal of a sociopath.
1. Debriefing. That means telling someone what happened, and that person listening without judgment. This is what we try to do at Lovefraud. We all listen to your stories, and we know what you’re talking about, because we’ve all been there.
2. Grieving. Grief is usually associated with the death of a loved one. But as Huffer points out, it is legitimate to grieve the loss of possessions, or our lifestyle, or our place in the community. Sometimes well-meaning friends or relatives say, “Oh, it’s only money.” This isn’t true. As Huffer writes, “Possessions are the outward manifestations of our inner identity.” We didn’t just lose things. We lost part of ourselves.
3. Obsession. Lisa is obsessed with her hatred of the guy who violated her. Her feelings are certainly justified. The problem with obsession, however, is that it wears you out, and interferes with your ability to regain control in your life. Huffer suggests coping with obsession by compartmentalizing it—only allowing yourself to dwell in it for specific periods of time. “Schedule your way out of it,” she says.
4. Blaming. This means putting blame where it belongs: on the perpetrator. We often feel guilty for allowing the situation to occur in our lives. But we have nothing to be guilty about. We were normal, caring, loving individuals who were deceived. The guilt, anger and rage needs to directed towards the person who deceived us.
5. Deshaming. Before our encounter with the predator, we had certain beliefs, such as “there’s good in everyone,” or “if someone asks me to marry him, he must really love me.” Unfortunately, the dreadful experience has taught us that some beliefs are false and need to be changed. When we do this, we also change our attitude, from “I was a fool” to “I’ve been wronged.”
6. Reframing. The first five steps of the process must be accomplished, Huffer writes, before a person can move on to reframing. At this stage, you can look at your experience, define it differently, and then articulate the wisdom you’ve gained.
7. Empowerment. At this point, you feel focused energy. You take ownership of your problems, determine how you are going to cope with them, and go into action.
8. Recovery. With recovery, you are able to move forward in your life. Sometimes recovery involves forgiveness, but Huffer says it is not necessary. It if far too early for Lisa, who wrote the e-mail quoted above, to attempt forgiveness.
The long journey
There is no expected timetable for moving through the recovery process. We all have different personal histories and face different circumstances. We’ve all had different levels of violation.
Anyone who has been targeted for destruction by a sociopath must understand that it was a profound assault, and it will take time to recover. You may slide back and forth among the stages. So be gentle on yourself, because the journey may be long. If you keep going, in the end you will find peace, built upon new depths of wisdom and understanding.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
blondie says:
i need help today. im so confused on what to do with my ex s. i mean my head knows what to do but my heart keeps hanging on. my ex, he wants to meet for lunch and wants to talk about us, and start trying again. im so worn out from talking about our realtionship. i feel like i put so much into this realtionship and i tryed to make it work for soo long, that im burnt out. i dont want to talk anymore, i just want to be me and do what i want for awhile. another part of me feels like its all control right now. when i want nothing to do with him, he wants to work on us, talk about us. when he feels im hook on him i think he goes back to being his JERK self again. im very afraid of him hurting me again, my heart is scared of him. I dont know what to think anymore. how long will it be till he hurts me emotionally again!!!?
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 8:44am
OxDrover says:
Dear Blondie,
Listen to your gut, dear! He WILL hurt you again, and again, and again as long as you allow it.
I know this is like a broken record, but NO CONTACT, NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, absolutely NO contact is the only way you can come to peace. At first it will just be “physical” no contact, and you will stillkeep thinking about him, wondering, maybe even doubting your self, but it will evolve into EMOTIONAL NO CONTACT where you will realize that you can NOT be around him without ripping the scab off your wounds.
Each time you listen to his pleas about “working on us” or how much he “really loves you” etc. you will go back to square one with your healing.
I can’t promise you it will be easy to start, but NO CONTACT will get you out of the range of his hooks. He is all about CONTROL, like a fisherman bringing in a “big catch” on a line, he wants to make sure his hook is set, and start reeling you back in. If you don’t take the bait, you can escape, but if you take the bait and let him back into your head, heart, and ears, he will hurt you again. That is just the nature of what they ARE. You can’t change him, he won’t change himself, so it is up to you how long you want to prolong the agony. The only way out with this guy is NO CONTACT.
LF will be here to support you all the way, but you are the one who has to make the choices and act the acts. DON’T DOUBT YOUR GUT, it will protect you if you let it. (hugs))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:11am
Beverly says:
Dear Blondie, I think you answered your own dilemma. Why dont you take time out for yourself for a while, concentrate on you, get your strength and vitality back, so then you can take the most appropriate action.
It will probably do you good to get out of the push n pull cycle. Best Wishes.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:44am
Beverly says:
How r u doing Oxy? How are the shingles? Itchy? You poor thing. I thought about you the other evening, there was a programme on tv about tick fever and it is quite dangerous. We all have our low spots, you will be bouncing back, I just know it. (((hugs)))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:49am
henry says:
Hello Gang… would someone tell me the Website of This Kathy Harjo, not sure what her name was but she has been talked about alot in here and quoted. She was talking about Narcisist. Does she have a website where I can look at her writings? Blondie , Our ultimate salvation is this final discard (no contact). We set the limit. We end the dance. They have no limit’s and are unable to do this. The abyss is bridged when we realize that there is no going back in any way. No friendship, no enmity, there can be nothing at all.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:54am
Beverly says:
When people say that their head says one thing and their heart says another, I think it is because the energy of the heart when loving, is warm, steady and slow burning - like a candle. When that energy is disrupted - blown out - as it were - the energy keeps on smouldering for a while. This is often the phase when people are tempted to go back and also to avoid heart pain. What do others think?
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:56am
Beverly says:
Hiya Henry, I dont know who else is on line at present, but I vaguely think its something like Operation Doubles.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:58am
Beverly says:
Yes, Henry, it is, I just checked its operationdoubles. Hope you are keeping yourself well. I was saying to the others, I got myself out and about this last weekend, went to a two day music festival and it was alot better than sitting at home. Have a good day Henry.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:03am
henry says:
Thank you sweetheart. Glad you are gettin out and about. I am planning a trip to Colorado sometime in August. I have a good friend that has a summer home up in the mountains and she want’s me to come spend sometime there, of course it will be a working vacation but I cant wait to go…….thanks Bev
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:17am
Beverly says:
You’re most welcome Henry. But I’ve done a naughty thing, Ive put myself on one of those websites for the over 50s. Fifty already. Gorgeous.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:19am
Beverly says:
Henry, I shall just sew the odd seed here and there! Nothing too full on. LOL (((hugs)))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:23am
henry says:
Bev. You be careful doing that, I think it is good to mingle and meet new people. But if you get hooked up with another physco, I am gonna come find you and kick you in the head. Be carefull and don’t forget what you have learned. That operationdoubles is about tennis. I want to find her Narcisist website. Maybe I am confused…take care Bev. And look for a guy that has a home, a car, a good job and lot’s of money and if he has a friend send him my way…..
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:25am
Beverly says:
Ha Ha. I know, there’s no hope is there?? Ha not the tennis one, if you google it and look abit down the page HENRY, you will see the one on Narcissism!!! Lol (((Hugs)))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:32am
Beverly says:
I think its time for me to go back to work. Im starting to get bored at home, and when I have time on my hands, I get into mischief.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:41am
blondie says:
why is that i forget what he did to me? we have been apart for a month now, and my feelings have changed back and front. i guess i just want things to be different with us and i dont want to accept that he will hurt me again. i want to trust him, i want to believe he loves me, but i guess its all a dream.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:42am
Beverly says:
Blondie, What I learnt through my experience, is that, we cannot control how we want others to behave and wanting someone to be a certain way and them being that way is bound to be different. When we hook up with someone, we are always on our best behaviour, that includes our partner. After a while, a person’s negativities and shadow side comes out and that is often why we want the person to be like they were at the beginning. But to look at them realistically, we have to see all their sides and see them with their failings too, then you can make an honest long term decision.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:47am
Beverly says:
I suppost it’s abit like having a nice new shiny car, which I have high hopes and expectations for - looks good and behaves well for the first few months. Then starts breaking down all over the place!!!.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:53am
newworld view says:
henry…i just typed in her name kathy krajco and found it…………..blondie, since your asking for help, that tell me the smart side of your brain ( as opposed to the emotional side) is already telling you what to do……..what is amazing is the struggle to keep thinkine MAYBE this time its for real…but its not….the pattern is already there….the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior with these guys as the familiar and true saying goes……….anyway, what is amazing is that when you follow NO CONTACT…the first dy you may feel unsure….but thereafter…you realize the POWER you have recovered…now it is YOU in control of YOU….he will never be again….. it is an AWESOME feeling…..stronger most days than the sense of loss……one minute at a time…….i promise……..terri
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 12:00pm
holywatersalt says:
Google “narc attack”
it’s Kathy Krajco, she pased away in April 2008 btw
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 12:00pm
henry says:
ok I found it !!!! thanks ladies…..
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 12:33pm
rperk6069 says:
Henry,
I have been reading your posts since you first started posting and you seem like a very kind and caring person. If you do come to CO, which is where I live, if you can, make a detour and go to the Butterfly Pavilion in Denver. So pretty.
Rita
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 12:37pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Bev, thank you for asking! I’m doing better pretty quickly thanks to modern pharmacology!!! The lesions are drying up and the pain is subsiding. I’m one of those lucky souls who get them repeatedly (and usually under stress) my doctor was convinced it was some other form of herpes and he actually did some kind of test or culture and it confirmed that it IS repeated shingles. It’s rare, but “I”M LUCKY!!” LOL
Today is the anniversary of my husband’s death 4 years ago and I’m doing okay, though the last couple of days of it have been rather mopey–is that a word? Feeling a lot of anger rise up in me about silly stuff, I guess it is a good thing I am here on the farm ALONE so there is no one but the dogs to strike out at and I would never do that! In fact, my little Terrier is actually I think knowing something is different with me and though he is usually by my side, he seems to be comforting me or trying to more the last few days.
I’m glad you are getting out and about Beverly and doing some things you enjoy, that is good for all of us. I went out to eat Saturdaynight with a friend to one of my favorite eaterries, and we made pigs out of ourselves, and also ran into several other friends we visited with, so have had a day out recently.
My chief pleasure now is “building” my art studio out of the old offices behind the hangar, painting and making the sow’s ear look a BIT like a silk purse, at least less like a sow’s ear. I have two room almost finished so I have my loom set up and ready to finish warping for some more rag rugs, and my art supplies, brushes and canvas set up with my easels to paint when the mood strikes me.
My son D will be home to stay in about a week or 10 days now so we can get back to work in earnest completing our projects. They seemed overwhelming at first but are slowly being worked on enough to see some progress in them all. That was a big stress on me, and it kind of kept eating at me, the mess the tools and the working areas were in from us and various hired hands who were not willing to work after my husband died. I can imagine he is smiling at me now and saying “well, you finally get the opportunity to rearrange everything YOUR way!” LOL For a man and a woman who disagreed on so many things, we sure had fun! It’s a very good thing that we were BOTH very tolerant of the other’s peccadilloes or we would have been like the “Bickersons” LOL
When I compare the way my H and I settled differences to the way that the X-BF-P would “show out” and act like an ass it amazes me that I stayed with him 4 months before I really started to “see” and that I then stayed another 4 months after I started to hurt from his verbal assaults.
My husband was a brilliant man, and the X-BF-P was pretty smart himself, but he was, unlike my H, very DEFENSIVE about his “being right about everything”—even things that were in my life of expertise. My husband was proud of my accomplishments and my smarts, and my knowledge, but the X-BF-P was “threatened” by them. Even when it was just a matter of opinion–I like Brussels sprouts and you don’t—big deal, right? Nope, not the X-BF-P, if he didn’t like Brussels sprouts and I did it was because I was stupid or crazy.
Big difference in the way the disagreements, even the most minor, were handled. I think the reason is that my H loved me, respected me, and didn’t disrespect me because my ideas or opinions were different from his. We would vigorously debate them if it was a more objective kind of thing, but we pulled out the science books or whatever to back up our arguments, not “well, you’re just stupid to think that” and we came to an objective conclusion and each learned something and we both went away happy and satisfied that we had found the answer, not matter who was “closer” to right in the beginning. Not so with the X-BF-P, it was all about “being right” and “being superior” to him. Being “in control” and “control” over everything was never an issue with my H and Me. It was shared on some things, and other things he had “control” of how something was done and in others I took the lead because I knew more about the subject than he did. If we were building airplanes, he was the “boss” and if we were handling the cattle, I was the “boss” simply because it worked better that way.
Looking back too, I realize that my X-BF-s’ close friends were fairly “low class” and my H’s were a higher class of people not so much in money as in education and culture, where X-BF seemed to like to be around people he could look DOWN on, people who did manual jobs for a living, and had less money than he did, less education, etc., my H liked to feel more equal to his friends, people who were intelligent, educated, and had common interests like aviation or computers.
When I look back and compare X-BF-P with H it is amazing that I thought AT THE TIME that I had so much in common with the X-BF when in reality I had little except our mutual interest in Living History. Even his interest in that though was all about HIM, having more things that were authentic but that he had BOUGHT instead of made, and lording it over others with less money to buy their accouterments but who learned the skills to make them. I can almost laugh now at how blinded I was by the FOG and my own neediness at missing my wonderful relationship with my husband. Even my psychiatrist said that I was like a “junky looking for a fix”—and I think that is pretty right on, I just couldn’t see for the FOG.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 1:21pm
henry says:
Perk I will be going through Denver on the way to colorado springs, i wrote down butterfly pavillion, hopefully we will get to go see it. Have you ever been to (garden of the Gods) it is awesome. Oxy, I am giving you a big ole bear hug. And yes dog’s do know when we are upset or depressed. My 3 dachshund’s know when I am depressed and I swear Crickit, she is a little minature black and tan, she will get up in my lap and push her self into my chest and rest her head on my shoulder. It is the best hug in the world, and Harley, my little fat man, he will set next to me making sure he is making physcical contant, Posey, well I think she is a Narc, she just want’s food or attention but she is sweet. I try to be in good spirit and play with them and take them places with me. When I was in the bad fog depression they were depressed also. When the Booger man was here and we argued (alot) they would hide under the bed. But the four of us are doing great now. Oxy you are so fortunate to have had your husband, hang in there and focus on the good time’s…
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 1:37pm
Beverly says:
I’m glad you are better Oxy. Yes mopey is a word, and I just sense the flatness. Anniversaries are always sharp reminders and you have so brought us into your world and all the things that have happened to you and your family that I just cant help but feel some connection. I think probably you are thinking about your husband, but that has also brought into light the comparison how wonderful he was, against the behaviour of your exP.
Loss is painful Oxy and you have had your fair share of trials and tribulations. On a positive note - you and I have also ‘gained’ a group of friends here, a ‘cyber collective’. Take it easy Oxy. (((hugs)))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 2:07pm
OxDrover says:
Thanks, Bev, you are so right. I know the “losses” have been big, but I have also gained a great deal of peace, especially with the “loss” of my Ps. They are OUT of my life and that in itself alone is a BIG GAIN for me. Not having to deal with the constant crises and “drama” is very comforting and reassuring of my safety. I am starting to feel safe here again, and though I AM cautious, I no longer live in terror.
I also have gained a increased perception of how many blessings I have and how many really wonderful friends I have, including the people here at LF. I’m also starting to love myself and to be able to set boundaries which decreases my stress once I have done that. I’m consciously trying to cut things that are stressful and unnecessary stress out of my life. A flat tire is stressful, but it isn’t the KIND of stress that you can predict or that is “aimed at you,” it just is one of those “things that happen to everyone.”
I realize too that healing is a continuum, not a specific spot that you can aim for and say “I’m Healed” It’s like “being healthy” is a continuum, you can be healthy or more healthy or less healthy but still be “healthy” or you can be “sick” or “very sick” or REALLY sick, but you are still on the sick end of the spectrum. I am approaching what I think is the “healthy” end of the healing continuum but I also realize that there are still things I need to work on, will always need to work on, but as long as I can stay in the + end of the journey, I think it will all be fine. I do have a much more positive attitude than I did when I was in such pain I thought it never would stop.
Just being in a place where NC is not a daily fight is much much better! I’m and have been for a while, at a point I don’t WANT to see them or know about them. I’m not even curious any more about them or how they are doing. It just doesn’t matter to me any more what they think about me as long as they leave me the hell alone. I know it is the first really difficult step we have to take in order to heal and with my family members it was really difficult to do, especially with my mother, but I never could have made it without total NC.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 2:34pm
Beverly says:
Even the strong ones need support sometimes Oxy. I have always fended for myself been independent. I never really realised what support I had, until my friends rallied around during my surgery. Even my estranged brother, contacted me out of the blue a few months before diagnosis - if that wasnt a miracle in waiting. I see that God supports us all the way and when I was sitting in my garden, during my recovery, I was hit by the realisation that the world is such an abundant place, that God has provided a garden of abundance in one form or another - that realisation blew me away, I was then able to see more of a connection in life.
Life for me, Oxy, is Work in Progress, always has, always will be. Love and Hugs to you Oxy - you have come a long way.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 3:09pm
Beverly says:
Yes, Im with you now Wini. I have read Tolle’s book and my brother lent me the Power of Now, so I am on a steep learning curve. I soak up this knowledge like a sponge. Yes, after we get past the shock, then the realisation, then the hurt, anger and pain kicks in. After the turbulence subsides and we are left nursing emotional and physical wounds, after that - another perspective takes place - doesnt it? Suddenly I realised how the whole scenario linked with my past, what was in the dark was brought into the light. When thinking about whether I should go with the relationship, i remember searching myself deeply and giving myself the green light - I must have done this for a reason, and it wasnt about feeling lonely - I think that this is the deeper intelligence and perspective I was conscious of. The pain gives way to growth, knowledge and self empowerment towards the collective. Right?
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 3:30pm
Beverly says:
Dear Wini, What I now see is a benevolent abundant God - for some of us, this is a spiritual experience as well. Wow.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 3:36pm
rperk6069 says:
I would like to share something that my sons grandmother sent to him today that I was fortunate enough to read also.
I do not know the author so I hope I don’t get into any trouble for re-typing this.
The Great Mandala & What I Believe
I believe-That just because two people argue, it doesn’t mean they don’t love each other. And just because they don’t argue, it doesn’t mean they do.
I believe-That we don’t have to change friends if we understand that friends change.
I believe-That no matter how good a friend is, they’re going to hurt you every once in a while and you must forgive them for that.
-That true freindship continues to grow, even over the longest distance. Same goes for true love.
-That you can do something in an instant that will give you heartache for life.
-That it’s taking me a long time to become the person I want to be.
-That you should always leave loved ones with loving words. It may be the last time you see them.
-That you can keep going long after you think you can’t.
-That we are responsible for what we do, no matter how we feel.
-That either you control your attitude or it controls you.
-That heroes are the people who do what has to be done when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.
-That money is a lousy way of keeping score.
-That sometimes the people you expect to kick you when you’re down will be the ones to help you get back up.
-That sometimes when I’m angry I have the right to be angry, but that doesn’t give me the right to be cruel.
-That maturity has more to do with what types of experiences you’ve had and what you’ve learned from them and less to do with how many birthdays you’ve celebrated.
-That it isn’t always enough to be forgiven by others. Sometimes you have to learn to forgive yourself.
-That no matter how bad your heart is broken, the world doesn’t stop for your grief.
-That our background and circumstances may have influenced who we are, but we are responsible for who we become.
-That two people can look a the exact same thing and see something totally different.
-That your life can be changed in a matter of hours for the good by people who don’t even know you.
-That even when you think you have no more to give, when a friend cries out to you, you will find the strength to help.
-That credentials on the wall do not make you a decent human being.
-That the people you care about most in life are taken from you soo soon.
-That you should send this to all of the people that you believe in. The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 4:19pm
rperk6069 says:
When I read this today, it really got me to thinking about the person I have become that I don’t really like. I have been hiding out away from everyone, my neighbors came over last week and asked me if I had been on vacation for the past month since they did not see me at all. Nope, no vacation for me, just hiding out in my house, which I told them and just about crapped myself cuz I just couldn’t believe I said that out loud.
I used to be a big people person, now I am afraid, I even send my son out to do my errands quite a bit because I cannot hold my head up in public. I have a very hard time reaching out to people when I need help or just companionship. This is the person that is me now. I just hope that if even one person out there, who is like me, reads the above and it helps them a little bit, that it was worth it to me to step out out my box.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 4:30pm
blondie says:
thank you everyone for your comments. im tryin really hard to do this no contact, but he makes me feel like iam making the wrong choice. he told me well in two weeks you will wish you had listen to your heart and followed it. he also said we cant even be friends???? BE FRIENDS? how do u be friends with someone who cheats on you for over a year and have a whole another relationship. you dont just get over it. he acts like this is NORMAL realtionship problems. people who are all about themselves is not a normal realtionship issue! im back at squre one again, i hate this.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 4:57pm
Beverly says:
Dear Rperk6069. I was thinking about what you posted, just before you posted it. I was thinking, well I have time on my hands, I spend quite abit of time in my home. When I was first devastated, I felt very vulnerable going into town and I kept my head down. But then, that feeling evaporated, it is a temporary phase. I did nothing wrong, I have nothing to hang my head down about - if anything I have come through that and alot more - I can hold my head up. All these moods are temporary cycles, sometimes minimal contact with people helps us to conserve energy for a while, that is the advantage of being a hermit for a while. Look at it, that your life, your field, is fallow at the moment, it is dormant, it is resting.
Dont worry RPerk, you will be out and about when you are good and ready and not when your neighbours or your mind prompts you.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 5:17pm
Beverly says:
Dear Blondie, The benefit of having no contact, is that we cannot be twisted by their words anymore and thrown off balance, persuaded, enticed. He probably knows what to say which will get to you. Have you agreed No Contact for a set period of time - because it sounds as though he is still speaking to you and giving you a guilt trip on the No Contact? I remember the exNarcissist, said to me that if I gave him up I would regret it, I would never find another decent bloke - its all baloney - despite the pain, I havent regretted giving him up for one millisecond.
Being back at square one is not bad, like snakes and ladders means that next time, you get to go up the board abit higher.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 5:25pm
Beverly says:
Rperk, We are all in transistion, undergoing transformation and these things work on the underground, silently and powerfully, it is like getting over a trauma. Mind and body needs time to recoup and settle, but although I say the ‘field’ is dormant, it is also very active in preparation for new beginnings. So please see this phase of non activity as productive. My neighbours look through my windows and wonder what on earth I am doing for hours and hours!! I may not have lots of action going on, but their is alot of silent progress going on in my place. Ha.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 5:32pm
newworld view says:
blondie….of course hes going to tell you that…thats why no contact mean even bt phone or email or any way…he is trying to manipulate and hurt you by saying no friends….hes trying to do ANTRHING that will get a response out of you…you finally have a bit of control….it will never stop, until you stop contact…….you are naturally doubting yourself…and if it didnt sound like the same story each of us has shared, i might believe it too….but sociopathic creatures ALL ude the same words…….mine said the same stuff…….. NONONONONO contact wil help you start the new beginning you deserve….you are doint the right thing….and we are here to give you strength as you asked……terri
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 5:41pm
rperk6069 says:
Beverly, Thank you so much. I never thought of it that way and what you wrote makes perfect sense. I just kept telling myself that there was/is something horribly wrong with me, that I could not pick myself up one more time. That I am in a terminal break down that will some day kill me. Thank you for your insight and thoughfulness. Rita
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 6:04pm
Beverly says:
You are welcome Rperk. Now you can welcome and enjoy the phase you are in and get the most out of it, instead of resisting it. ((hugs))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 6:11pm
takingmeback says:
blondie…I found it helpful to write down all that he did to me. I started doing it to help check my sanity at times during my contact with him. I realized that I kept going back because I wanted so badly to believe he was the person I first met who was loving and kind…but it was a lie and there is no change. What he did to you before he WILL do again. If you haven’t written it all down I encourage you to start now. Read it as often as you need to. The hard part is our belief that people like Ns can change and have something good inside. The only thing inside is a desire to control. You staying in contact gives him control. It justifies what he’s already done and he continues to win the game he’s created. He’s a master manipulator. My S could tell me the sky was green and if I was in his presence I’d have considered it. It’s eerie how powerful they are at persuasion and it feels hypnotic. Take care of yourself and stand up for yourself and say no more! You deserve that!
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 7:24pm
blondie says:
thank you thank you thank you!!!!
I feel like he does give me a guilt trip for wanting to end it. i tell him no contact and he doest listen. i did write down all the things he did, i just dont seem to look at it everyday, but i think i need to, to remind myself of what he did, and the decison i made for myself.
has anyone ever felt like when you were not around you sociopath or Ns you didt think it was all that bad, but when you saw them again it all came back to you and thats all you could think about?
another thing, i feel like iam never going to get away from him, he will always contact me.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 7:53pm
rperk6069 says:
Blondie, Hell yes, that is exactly the way I felt. And he still tries to contact me even after a year and a half saying he misses our friendship! What friendship? I have changed my phone number numerous times and changed it again recently, my family can think what they want, I tell them I was getting alot of other peoples calls cuz this they can handle.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 8:12pm
takingmeback says:
blondie,
Absolutely! I would forget everything and put things in such a perspective that I’d have hope that could move mountains that things would be different this time. Then we’d talk or I’d see him and it was all right back again. I believe that what they do to us is so harmful that denial sets in rather quickly to protect ourselves. Our minds have a way of trying to establish that equilibrium so we can keep going on. But what we end up doing is walking right back into the fire over and over as if we have a death wish. That’s part of what was crazy making for me. I had to struggle to stay in reality and recognize who I was dealing with.
I was lucky my N/S moved on and had another target he was working on. He wanted to keep me around too but I wouldn’t let go of asking why he did the things he did. It drove him crazy that I wouldn’t let it go. That saved me in the end. His excuses were too irrational and the therapist in me wouldn’t let go of the questioning as his behavior did not match his words. It made it worse in the end as he got homicidal towards me but it is truly what saved me. He ended up admitting that he isn’t capable of love or forgiveness or change. He said he knew what was wrong with him but didn’t want to do anything about it. He said he was probably the one that made me sick thinking I was crazy. He admitted to only giving gifts to make himself look good and to fit in. He also said he could only feel normal at times around others who truly didn’t know him and he had no attachment to. He would always be miserable and always disappoint people. I believe he has been told what he is. I also believe he’s back into denial again and getting enough NS to keep him filled. But I caught him at a low point and got some answers I never expected. He had told me he was depressed for so long I still had a hard time seeing what he was telling me. But it all clicked in when I had distance from him and I saw sooo much more. No Contact is a must to healing and taking yourself back!
If you continue to let him know you’re not interested he may finally figure out he can’t use you. You NEED to be consistent in not responding to him. You are feeding him each time you do. Ignoring him may make him try harder but I hope it will eventually wear him out and he’ll move on to other easier sources of supply.
Be strong and don’t forget what he’s done and the fact that he’ll continue doing it if you let him!
YOU DESERVE SO MUCH MORE!!!
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 8:20pm
blondie says:
takingmeback, i feel like your story and my story and the same. thank you for the support im going to need it badly.
i also need to know how to deal with him, when we have items together that he is payin me montly on. do i just take the items back and pay for them myself so there is no connection? i just dont know how to deal with these type of guys with business stuff.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 9:38pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Blondie,
Let me add my 2 cents worth here to this, every time you listen to him, read a text or e mail, it rips your scabs off your wounds.
Do not answer the phone, don’t listen to voice mail, don’t read e mails, don’t answer the door. don’t talk to anyone who will telll him how you are. If he follows you on the street, call the cops, if he knocks at your door, don’t even yell through the door go away, just call the cops.
For a while you will still doubt, you will still second guess, but you will get over that phase and start to not want to hear from him.
He may keep it up a day, a week, a month or a year, or show up 10 years from now and knock on your door. They are like that and yoiu can’t always predict when they will turn back up, but the NO CONTACT give syou time to heal, to listen to yourself instead of him. HE IS THE LIE. EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS A LIE. HE CANNOT LOVE YOU, HE WANTS TO CONTROL YOU.
With NO contact, YOU ARE IN CONTROL, THE ONLY CONTROL YOU CAN GAVE OVER HIM–GET OUT OF MY LIFE.
You have nothing to feel guilty about, this is not a polite cocktail party it is ABUSE and you do not have to “be nice” or “be polite” or “not make a scene”—-he does not deserve polite. He has lied to and abused you. CUT HIM OFF.
Hang in there babe, and before you contact him, come here and post, we will support what you already know is the right thing to do—listen to your gut woman! It will protect you, and right now your heart is confused. (((Big Hugs))))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 9:38pm
Indiechick says:
Takingmeback…wow…this is EXACTLY what my S was like.
Blondie, its weird, but after 3 years with him and 10 days of no contact, its getting easier and things he said, things he did are popping into my head in retrospect. Being away from them makes you see how really sick they are. But I think if he did call me I’d start to get weak again thinking that maybe THIS time it will be different. It won’t and I have to believe that intellectually, not emotionally. My hope in people and changed lives dictates and HAS dictated that I always gave him another chance. Chance after chance after chance, but it always ended up with the bomb dropping when I least expected it. Nothing is going to change if it hasnt by this time.
He too would say, “I want to be friends with you. I cant stand not being in your orbit”. CHEESY!!! now that I think of it and look back on it. Friends??? I said to him. I dont want a “friend” who lies to me and manipulates and hurts me. He will never be a “friend” because he never was. He was always a “frenemy”: an enemy disguised as a friend.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:06pm
OxDrover says:
Indiechick, I heard that word, “Frenemy” for the first time the other day and I htought it was SO appropriate for the Ps—enemy disguised as a friend. What could describe them better!!
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:10pm
blondie says:
Thanks OxDrover so much!
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:13pm
blondie says:
indiechick
its been a month and we have not talked for like a week, but i have’nt seen him but twice. my life has already changed a little bit, ive been doing what ive been wanting to do. i havent had to worry about him. my life feels somewhat less stressful. ive been spending more time with my mom and family and ive missed them, if feels nice to be around them more, and i dont want to go back to that life with him, bc it was always about him, ive never really spent the time with them, bc he always wanted me to be with him. I to always gave him chance after chance, and then boom i would find some email or a text message or find out some lie about where he was or what he was doing and who is was with.
he just texted me that he is crying bc im doin this to him and im dating someone else. haha i just laugh bc its so far from the truth and he just wants a reaction. the sad truth is when i told him to get out of my life for all these things he did to me he didt cry to me or in front of me. they always make it about them, never what they did to do.
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:29pm
henry says:
RPerk Thanks for sharing that message. I am like you, I have become a recluse a hermit. Except for going to work and visiting with my son, I pretty much keep a low profile. I avoid my neigbors because I am embarrased by some of the thing’s he did out here. Driving like a mad man when he was in a rage. Screaming at the top of his lung’s. I threatened to call the police and my son and he would say go ahead I will tell them what f–up person you are. I am so was humiliated and embarrassed at being conned> I feel like such a fool sometimes. When we first got together I wanted everyone to meet him. I told them what a good guy he was. (excuse me while I puke) Anyway I am gettin it back, I made a big mistake, but who doesn’t? If you are concerned about what other people think, the truth is most people are busy thinkin about themselve’s. So we got get out there and get busy living. Sometimes we have to be willing to let go of the life we had planned and start living the life that is waiting on us. I just wish I could get him out of my head. He just torment’s me all the time and I havent seen or talked to him in months. He is out of my heart but I keep going over all the lie’s all the deciet.. Maybe it will stop someday but anyway
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 10:38pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Henry,
In my community where my family has lived since 1833, it is ALL about what “the neighbors think” in my family, and you know, I say SCREW WHAT THE NEIGHBORS THINK! Their lives may not be any more “dramatic” than my last year or so has been, but you know, they are NOT focused on me and my life, and if they are, they are leaving some other poor soul alone.
They don’t support me, and you know, I am the one that got out of bed in the middle of saturday night movie to get the fish hook out of their kid’s ear, or the bug out of theirs, or sew up some guy’s hand when he caught it in the milk gate.
I am NOT going to live my life for the neighbors and my dear you better not either! As I used to say to my kids when they would squabble in the car–DON’T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR! So Henry, my dear dear friend, don’t make me have to come through this screen after you! LOL You get out there and quit giving a flip about what the neighbors think, YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO ACTED BADLY. You know, I have felt shame all my life for OTHER’S bad behavior and I think it is time I quit, what about you? It hasn’t done us a bit of good to feel shame for their behavior cause THEY sure DON’T!!!
And, Henry, dear Henry, it will stop someday andyou will get it out of your head. I would drive down the road for what seemed like the longest time “talking” to him out loud in the car alone. Aloha said she did the same thing too. I guess we finally just get it all SAID even if we aren’t really talking to them. We might as well be talking to the air as to them because the air gets it just as well as they do!
I’m not exactly Ms. Social Butterfly either, but I do keep up with my friends and even went out for a while tonight to visit some friends for a couple of hours. I’m actually staying off the road as much as I can with gasoline as high as it is. People out in the country because we drive bigger vehicles and because we travel further use more gas than the townies do, just to get our shopping and errands done.
It’s nice to talk to these folks too because they DO get it about the Ps. This woman had a daughter murdered by her P husband 10 years ago, and she is raising the granddaughter of another one that is in prison, and her own first husband was a P, and the father of the little girl she is raising is one, and her life story makes mine look like a “normal family”—but she and her husband are both super neat people and she has over come a lot of trauma in her life. To be taking on an at-risk 3 year old when you are 60 is a big task, but that is the most beautiful and loving little girl I have ever met and she adores me too.
Henry, dear, no one felt more humiliated and embarassed than I did about this whole thing, and about being on the “wrong side” of the professional clip board, but I got over that and realized that the ONLY person on this earth I have to answer to is ME. The only one off this earth I have to answer to is God. What the rest of the however many billion people on earth think about me doesn’t matter. If you get right down to it, how many people really CARE what goes on in any one person’s life? Really, not very many that you know, and none of those you never met. So kick that guilt and humiliation in the butt pronto, and don’t make me have to come through this screen! LOL (((Big Hugs))))
Monday, 14 July 2008 @ 11:51pm
alohatraveler says:
Dear Blondie,
You asked, “How long will it be till he hurts me emotionally again!!!?”
My guess is… not long.
But answer the question for yourself. How long do you think it will take for him to hurt you again?
When he does hurt you again, will you have enough strength left to pick yourself up and go on?
How much inner strength do you have left?
How tired and beaten up do you feel?
If you took the energy you have left right now and you cut it in half, would it be enough to pick yourself up and go forward when he hurts you the next time?
If you still have a glimmer of hope for something better for yourself.. what if that glimmer of hope was cut in half? and in half again? and again? and again?
How long will it take before you will not have enough of you left to fight for yourself… and by fighting, I mean the fight that we have internally to recover and take back our joy, the spring in our step, our laughter, our peace, our life?
Blondie, the fact that you are saying you need help today tells me that there is a part of you that still has enough energy to put up a fight for yourself.
Good luck Blondie.
Aloha….. :o)
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 12:56am
alohatraveler says:
Blondie,
Here’s the answer to the question you asked above.. how long before he hurts you again.
Well, a wise woman once said, “im starting to realize that i continue to let him emotionally abuse me, i keep letting him hurt me. Im also realizing that i just have to cut him out of my life. nothing is ever going to change with that man, no amount of talking will change anything. he will say he is sorry for making me cry but im sure if i let him, give it a day or two and i will cry again.”
So, I guess the answer is: a day or two. :0)
You already know the answer. You just have to be ready to accept it.
XO Aloha
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 1:03am
henry says:
OXY If we could come through this screen I would be sittin at your kitchen table right now. You are right, I know you are. I was reading Takingmebacks post and her pain and confusion described what I felt so well. I am just not good at putting it into words. We have all felt that pain and confusion. And nobody get’s it unless they have experienced it. Not even my therapist, I have moved past the (P) experience with her- the therapist- and I am focusing on depression and self esteem issue’s. I have educated her enuff about PD’s. Actually I may just cancel her all together. I have you and all these nice wounded people here to recover and grow healthy with. It’s been three month’s and I think I am sooo much better. But he is like a ghost around here. I will eventually stop thinking about what he did. I guess I need to give my self more time. I just want to be over this right now!!! And some here have had years between them and the (P)’s and still have scars. I guess living with him three years and changing my whole life too acomodate his, everything was about him bedtime mealtime this time that time. Why dont they just tell us- Hey I need an address, a place to sleep, sex when I want it, and I won’t pay you any respect and don’t ask where I have been and when I get bored with you I will find a new address….But in the end I did put my Big Boy Britches on and told him to go live his life somewhere else. And even after he had moved in with his new victim he wanted sex with me. So no he hasn’t found true love with anybody. And I have learned a whole bunch about me and I am a good person, my self esteem wasnt as low as I thot it was. A evil spirit seeped into my life, took my dream’s and presented himself as that. Thanks Oxy -My Dear Sweet Redneck Girl Friend - I love ya!!!!!
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 1:06am
Odette says:
Hi Oxy
Sorry to hear you have Shingles. I had it last year and hopefully never again!
To Blondie
I wish I could find your ex-P and give him a good hard smack and tell him to stay away from you. I’m not long separated from my ex-P so the feelings are still raw. I feel your pain when I read your words.
A little practical advice you might want to mull over. Think about consulting a lawyer to handle the business issues you and your ex-P still have. In my experience psychopaths use anything to get back at you and having a neutral someone to negotiate on your behalf would safeguard you and your finances.
On the emotional side…these past few days I don’t feel qualified to advise anyone on what to do because I’m going through a very bad time. I suppose all I can say is hang in there. Look after yourself…get enough sleep, take vitamins and treat yourself to something nice…a facial or a massage or just relaxing in the sunshine with a good book.
You’ve been battered by this man, as surely as if he beat you with his fists. You need time and tender loving care to help you recover. There’ll be good days and bad days but you will survive, I know you will.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 1:38am
Beverly says:
Wini, I have many many books and as my knowledge increases, I read them again and again to fill in the gaps, expand my understanding, but of course, much of the progress done is not in the reading, it is in the doing, checking in on oneself, allowing the divine intelligence to lead, surrendering ‘oneself’ to that. See my post 14 July, here. We have a Buddhist monastery here a couple of miles away and in 1991, I used to go there alot and I recognise that alot of the information in Tolle’s book is reframed in a way that is easy to understand. I have many Buddhist books and Sufism, so I have read this information before, but it is the understanding and internalising of it, which is the difficult part. Usually, the test is through the experiencing, usually through painful circumstances, that brings us to the ‘knowing’. Best Wishes (Angela)
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 5:10am
Never again says:
well one way or the other a S is always going to hurt you. my ex b. was a liar who didnt tell me at the beginning that he was married (he left that woman after he used her). he didnt tell me when we met that he had two girlfriends. he didnt brake up with one after a month we started dating, cause also he needed her for some things. (even after she called him constantly on the phone while we were together). then, after two months an ex from a another country called him and wanted to see him. during this period we had some great time and that kept our relationship going. he was great in bed.
we were constantly fighting cause my faith in him was fading. and somehow and i dont know why we stayed together for a whole year. than i had to leave the country, he never came to say goodbye (he was busy with his work). there was always an excuse for his bad behavior. while we were separated we used to chat a lot, talk and somehow i never believed in anything he said. he is mysterious, actually a lot!!!!
after two years dating (one year being separated), one day he called me and told me he need to get operated. didnt want to tell me why and what. i was furious and broke up. feeling really bad and hurt a lot after two months, while i was on my vacation in this country where he is living, i called him. wanted to see him and he agreed. he told me he had a girlfriend, but he wanted to get back with me. after that meeting he said he needed to go abroad for business, so we couldnt see each other. calling me everyday, telling me how bad he wants to get back with me, planning his future with me etc. not after three days he called me and said that he is actually home and that evening he is leaving on vacation with his girlfriend!!!! oh my God, i was hurt, mad at my self for letting him hurt me again. and actually that is why i left this post. he can do and be whomever he wants to be, but you are the one who lets him do to you whatever he wants.
today, i am in a relationship with a man who is loving and nothing like a sociopath. so i know there is a way to find a true love. in the beginning the sociopath used to call me, telling me he broke up with the girl, wanting me bad and telling me that he is going to die for our love. nothing i believed him, and i left him to die there. never again with him!!!!
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 8:25am
blondie says:
it amazes me how many people’s stories relate to mine. ive never in my life thought there were so many bad people out there. the thing that gives me chills down my back, is when i read other peoples stories about there bad man having another women around. they always need another women around for something. they cant be with you faithfully. they dont break off those other realtionship, bc they need her around for something. its always excuse why they cant break it off. there is an excuse for everything. its just exactly how my ex use to be.. he would say and still says “im ridding myself of her” WHAT THE F does that mean????? but it doest even matter bc thats just a lame excuse and just words u say to me to get things back. there is no real effort into ending those other relationship b/c they dont want they to end.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 9:13am
Wini says:
Beverly: I don’t know if I mentioned this to you before … but Tolle reminds me of one of my former professors. He taught Calculus. 24 of us took his summer class. He was so in tuned with individuals that he taught each of us the way he could get through to us. Checking to see when the light bulb went off in our eyes. 24 individual students, 24 different ways he taught. Tolle is like this, teaching everyone at their own pace. Explaining to each of us what is important and what isn’t … that of living in your obnoxious ego. He explains every one has an ego … but, is that ego in check or out of control. Out of control egos he calls OBNOXIOUS which is a nice way to phrase their personalities for the rest of us that are more in line with being humble.
I like reading wisdom from whatever source offers it.
Peace.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 12:32pm
takingmeback says:
Indiechick…I am still laughing about the “frenemy” I totally love that! So true about the Ss out there!
Henry,
Please DO NOT be humiliated or embarassed by SOMEONE else’s behavior. We are not responsible for what other people do. Let me repeat that so we all have this clear…WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO.
I don’t know about your past but I know that I was brought up being told that somehow I was at fault when other people acted up or hurt me. WRONG! Everyone is responsible for their own behavior. We may influence others but ultimately the choice in how to respond is theirs. Especially for the S/P/N who can make life so histrionic. For me, even though I had worked through all those lies I had been told growing up, the old script came right back out when my ex entered the picture. Gee I wonder why? He was good at manipulating and making me somehow feel responsible because it couldn’t be poor innocent him with all his woes. He was a poor depressed widower afterall. I seriously wonder if he didn’t have something to do with his wife’s death. I wish I were joking but I’m not at all. Anyone who says, “I’m just sad that she HAD to die so we could be together and I could be happy” is suspect. I hadn’t seen him in 12 years or had any contact with him. How did I get squeezed into that equation? OK I’m gonna get sick so let’s move on….
Unfortunately sometimes we replay old pieces of our past and this time I’m getting closure like never before! I’m saying no more! As for getting him out of your head, I have the same problem. Well, not getting your S out of my head, but my ex out of my head (j/k sorry I couldn’t resist). I know it’s from the PTSD as my brain is trying to make sense of what happened and when I get triggered it just starts going and words, phrases, memories…they all come back. The good thing is the emotional pain does not come back with it anymore. That is progress. But it is annoying.
What’s happening is actually our body’s way of protecting itself from a threat but it’s VERY uncomfortable. The amygdala is stimulated in that fight or flight mode trying to make sense of things. For me, I try to distract myself and not react. I try not to spend too much time engaging in thinking about him. It’s VERY hard and it takes discipline to try to retrain your brain. But that’s somewhat what we need to do. EMDR is a specialized treatment that has helped others with symptoms of PTSD. Obviously talk therapy helps too depending on the therapist. But for me the flashbacks and triggers are still there and some days it’s exhausting. It has decreased though. I still see a therapist and still address it as it comes. But it does suck. The good news is that it WON’T always be this way! We will heal.
Give yourself time and give yourself a break…pahleeze. No shame, no blame, no guilt. Get rid of it!!!! If you experience any of these give it back to him where it belongs. That’s projected onto you by an S/P/N- whatever you want to call them. I suggest you give it all over to God to do what He needs to in order to be done with it. It’s been misplaced onto you. That was the most freeing experience I’ve had so far in my whole journey. God said put it at my feet and I did. It’s gone! Realizing it wasn’t my fault and no longer feeling guilty rocks!!!
THEY’RE sick plain and simple. And evil. M. Scott Peck also wrote in “People of The Lie” that you can’t interact with evil without having a little brushed onto you. In my experience that’s where the PTSD kicks in. Getting rid of the evil. Trying to make sense of it in a body that can’t relate because it holds a heart that is good and true. A heart like yours. When it gets difficult just remember you’re healing. Each day will bring new insight and each sunrise will get brighter and brighter until you are ready to step fully back into the light.
PS- social anxiety is common. I’ve gone through it too and I’ve been able to be out in public and around others more and more lately. This too shall pass. Just take baby steps like in “What About Bob”. Take it slow but don’t avoid. You don’t want to develop any phobias. Get out little by little and spend time with safe people in safe places before hitting new ones
And keep talking and sharing please. It is so helpful to hear from everyone.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 2:52pm
takingmeback says:
Henry,
I know I’ve never written to you before so I hope I wasn’t too forward. I just want to encourage you to keep those Big Boy Britches on!
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 5:08pm
takingmeback says:
blondie,
As for business stuff you have together. I suggest that you cut any connection you have. If there’s stuff you pay for together I would do as you suggested and get rid of it or pay for it yourself. That leaves no ties for him to manipulate you with. It’s all about control for them.
Here’s what helped me. I looked at it as if I was dealing with the devil. I felt my ex was as evil as they could come as I had never dealt with anyone who had absolutely no empathy, zip, zilch, nada and could be so cold and such a calculating liar. ANYTHING that tied me to him felt like a tie to the devil. I got rid of all of it and cut my losses on some things he had or relationships that were connected to him. Although he made sure to tell me who was on my side and who I could have. THIS being way efore things came to an end. This was the beginning of seeing his paranoid side. I could not believe that as I was supporting him and his “woes” he started to push me away and tell me I could have his family and his therapist and our friends and everyone on “my side”. Uh…thanks? It was bizarre. But he was crumbling under my relentless questioning of his behavior. His mask of sanity had cracked and was falling off. Much to my horror but much to my benefit in the long run.
So free yourself woman! No more ties! LOL Sorry it just came out
But seriously don’t forget it’s about control and manipulation.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 5:27pm
Indiechick says:
The obsessing is the hard part. I want so badly to stop thinking about him. As soon as that feeling comes over me that maybe I should call him I have to read this blog and remind myself of what he really is and that things are not gonna change.
I joined a health club last week thats not in my town. I work 30 miles away from where I live and I prefer to go there because I also live in a small town and everyone knows everyone. I hate it here. Im moving soon. But I find that the more I focus on me, the less I focus on him. Its a foreign feeling to me. What Ive discovered is that as the oldest child from an alcoholic home I was always the caretaker, the fixer, the rescuer. I’m done with that and for the first time I’m really doing something for me.
The health club is my sanity right now. Its a different environment than anything I shared with “him”. Its solely my own experience apart from him. I find that when Im there, I dont think about him. Maybe the solution to obsessing is to try to focus on our own wants, needs and desires for once. Do SOMETHING for yourself…whatever it may be….whatever you like….something new and different.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 6:07pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Taking me back,
That was a wonderful post to Henry! Now, Henry dear, you have stereo “nags” !!! ((Hugs)))
Are you taking the EMDR treatment for your PTSD. I had never heard of it but had about 6 months of it and it helped me tremendously. I’m not sure WHY it worked but it seemed to not only take care of the PTSD from the plane crash but from other situations that I think I probably also had PTSD from.
I still have some significant short term memory defecit but even that has been getting MUCH better. I retired about 6 months after my husband died (I didn’t go back to work for 3 after he died) but the stress and the pace of the job was more than I could have handled in the shape I was in, and especially with the PTSD I didn’t think I was safe to work where people’s lives depended on me being in “top form”
Indiechick, great for you, the health club sounds like a wonderful thing for YOU. Good going!
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 6:32pm
takingmeback says:
OxDrover,
I’m so sorry to hear about what happened to your husband and all you’ve been through. I’m glad though to hear that EMDR has been beneficial. Traumatic loss is soooo difficult. I can’t truly relate but I was diagnosed with PTSD once before after finding a client who ODd. That was just a couple of years ago. The shock of finding the body hit me like nothing before. However, this was not a loved one and I know my experience pales in comparison with yours. I can’t imagine what that was like for you. But on the other hand you are one amazing woman to have survivied all this. I am so thankful for the wisdom you share and your story of survival is inspiring to me.
I have recently asked for referrals from a trusted colleague regarding an EMDR therapist. I would like to try it. I actually went to see someone last summer before realizing my ex was a S when I started to have flashbacks to childhood abuse. What I didn’t realize is those flashbacks were happening for a reason. I was being abused again and just didn’t see it. It was covert (gaslighting, emotional manipulation, projection, etc.) I was uncomfortable with the therapist who didn’t want to start with EMDR and so I left as my ex and I started to “work” things out.
Anyhow, I too am no longer allowing abuse in my life and learning to recognize all the signs of it…overt and covert. I now see it and say no more. Thanks to people like you who have been encouraing me over the months as I’ve been reading these blogs!
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 7:56pm
OxDrover says:
Good for you takingmeback again, I do recommend EMDR, at least it worked for me. My therapist didn’t start directly off with it either, there were several months when we just talked. I have to laugh though, after listening to my “tales of woe” of “everyone in the world is out to kill me” my therapist asked me to bring in a witness and proof that I wasn’t a paranoid delusional “nut case” ( my words not his) LOL He was so afraid I would be offended. Actually I wasn’t in the least offended, sometimes I can’t believe this much chit happened to me either! LOL
ONe of the biggest worries I had was my memory just went ka-put! I couldn’t remember anything. I actually thought I was getting SENILE. My therapist finally tested me on a 1:1 basis and I scored 1 point higher than usual (which isn’t significant of course) but it did make me see I was doing OK just had a short term memory loss from distraction and stress.
Stress has been one of my interests and the effects it has on the body, the immune system and of course our cognitive functions. Needless to say I was under a LOT of stress, and sometimes I am amazed that at least on the “outside” i seemed to be functioning pretty well, but it took a lot of energy to keep up that FACADE of “Normalcy”–energy I could have been using on a lot of other things that needed energy at that time, like healing!
When we were kids there were all the negative jokes and comments and the cruelty jokes like “mama mama why is daddy running? Shut up and keep shooting!” etc and one of the was “I was so depressed and out of the darkness came a voice that said “cheer up things could be worse” so I cheered up and , sure enough, they GOT WORSE” or “the light at the end of the tunnel is an on-coming train” etc
For so long it felt like that everytime I felt I was out of the “woods” another range of forest loomed ahead. I was always “waiting for the other shoe to fall” and sure enough it did.
But at the same time, I really don’t have a lot to whine about compared to others here. I have a home, am not in debt, I could retire when I NEEDED TO, and by living frugally, I’m okay. I have wonderful supportive friends and two sons left that I am very very proud of. My stress level has pretty much gotten to a reasonable level and what I have now is mostly internal, which I am working on.
I’m learning to set boundaries, and be willing to let those relationships go if that’s what it takes. I’m not assuming responsibility for anyone except myself, everyone else can float their own boat. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t help a friend if I could, or a stranger for that matter, but I have the choice to say NO. It is okay to say “NO” and I am not worrying all the time about “hurting someone’s feelings”—I dont’ mean that ugly, just that I am no longer willing to “walk on egg shells” in order to avoid making someone not like me or be angry with me. I’m going to be honest and up front when I say “NO” and those that can’t stand the heat can get out of the kitchen. I do not have to be abused by anyone in order to avoid “hurting their feelings for their bad behavior.”
LoveFRaud has helped me a great deal as well. I’m still definitely a work in progress but I’m moving on…
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 8:36pm
henry says:
Dear Taking Me Back… Thanks soo much for your response. I enjoy reading your post, I love your wit and humour. And don’t worry about your spelling. I think we are all forgiving about that.. Scincerely that was a powerful post. your comment ( The good thing is the emotional pain does not come come back with it anymore. That is progress. But it is annoying.) That is where I am, my heart is over it for the most part, but reliving all the gaslighting and manipulation goes on and on. I guess I am re living the truth- now that I am out of the fog. Maybe this is progress also. You seem like a wonderfull person with alot of wisdom, I am glad you are here. As one of the blogger’s said one time, This website can not be bought. Thanks again for sharing YOUR pain and story, I thank you so much…. Oxy if you are out there- I love you too and you can harp on me all you want…hope you are feeling better…
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 10:55pm
OxDrover says:
Dear sweet Henry,
Of course I am here, it beats watching TV! LOL I’m so proud of you and the response you gave to Rperk on the other thread, you said just the right things. To think you were a basket case only a few weeks ago and you are now really getting into helping others! What a spectacular rate of growth you have young man! I’m just here on LF cuz I’m addicted to you Henry, and if you ever go straight you’re gonna marry me! Ha ha But you know, at 53 you’re probably too old for me, since I am only 61, so I guess I’ll have to break our engagement, Henry, besides all these other gals would be mad at me for taking you off the LF “circulation” LOL
Yea, I am feeling better, I’ve been pigging out on fresh corn on the cob, my doggie is disappointed I won’t “share” but Fat and Hairy like the cooked cobs so there’s no waste at all.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 11:07pm
henry says:
OXY You crack me up..lmao I have a garden full of tomato’s and green beans and squash and okra, I have been enjoying the tomatoes, I have a wonderfull recipe for tomatoe pie.. Oxy I don’t think I will go straight just gayly forward………….hmmm so you broke our engagemet, well I guess I better go find me a man next time haha luvs ya ..
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 11:13pm
OxDrover says:
(raise eyebrows and moan)
Oh, Henry, “gayly forward”—gosh I thought I did bad puns! You take the cake but you made me smile! Thanks for the smile my friend! I really am glad you are doing so well and your advice to the others is really nice. Thanks.
Tuesday, 15 July 2008 @ 11:20pm
Never again says:
first step for recovering was actually telling myself that he is not the only person in this world who can make me happy. (and even after two years he never made me truly happy, that was most funny) i know it is hard to acknowledge that, very hard. but hey all you people out there, you are worth more to yourself that some punk who doesnt even care about your needs. and if you dont take care, who will??
it is even more sad to learn that a sociopath cant feel love. that is why they talk about love that much.
just turn around and never look back. i am here today willing to help everyone who is having trouble with recovering. i never posted anything while i was hurting, and know that every single time i tried i would burst in to tears. but today i am grateful for this blog and you lovely people who helped me with your stories!!
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 3:23am
henry says:
this is neither here nor there, but I just woke up from a bad dream about HIM. he was in prison for killing someone, not sure who, but I was really upset because he got life and I would never see him again, hmm wonder what thats about.—– I have had this bad case of (i dont know how to spell it but it is pain in the left hip all the way down to my ankle (sigh at tic a) physatic, that nerve that goes down your hip and leg, sometimes the pain is unbearable, especially at nite. I have been to the doctor and got shot and pills but it has been persistent for 3 months. it is wearing on my spirit, I have pyhsical pain and emotional pain adding to my depression, I am such a whiner no comment necesarry
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 3:38am
Never again says:
to blondie:
i know how it feels. my ex also used to call me whenever i was sick and tired of talking about relationship, and willing to go on with my life. and just the same, when we would get back he would play the same part like before, being a real jerk.
just say no to him. even if you have to be alone for awhile, even if you have to date some man with whom you dont feel as great and who dont please you as he used to. i know how that feels. but trust me one nice day you will meet someone who will be crazy just for the beginning. who will make you smile and will understand you.
just say no, no, no, no. he will hurt you again, i am 100% sure. you love yourself more than he will ever know how to love. just love you and being you.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 3:38am
Never again says:
to henry:
yeah!! it is best that he stays there, in prison. that is nice sign that you shut him down and now you have to go on with your life.
i remember that i would get sick in my stomack when talking with him. i would get headaches and in the last period of our relationship i would shiver and my leg muscles would crumple. that was a sing for me to just kick him out.
P.S. i apologies for my bad english. i am trying my best (sometimes
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 3:47am
Beverly says:
To Never again. You just reminded me that I was overcome with a tremour, my whole body shook and at first I thought I had flu, I had a fever and I said to my daughter I dont know what is wrong with me. This happened quite a few times, however, he wrecked my health, as you know I was well when I went in and had cancer and arthritis of the spine, balance problems when I came out. Hey ho.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 5:24am
Never again says:
to Beverly:
oh, I am so sad to hear that. i think if i stayed that i would get the same problems. it’s just that treatment and pressure he would put on me that made me feel this way. it was always no matter what i said he would not understand what i am trying to explain or he would say he did and then would go on being terrible.
you know that kept me stay in the relationship, what wondering why doesn’t he understand what i am trying to say!!!! there is no need for me to understand anything about him, it just sad and boring anyway.
sociopaths are boring people
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 5:39am
Never again says:
i have a question for everyone.
did your ex sociopath doubt in everything and everyone? did he like doubt in every little stupid thing you would say? he would ask me 100 of question about a dvd i got for birthday from a friend… where was it bought, in which language are the titles, who is the friend, what is his name, address, telephone number etc. just cause he couldn’t believe that someone would say the truth, and i say you all this with no joking at all.
he didn’t have much friends. actually only one friend who used to have drug problems. even that person wasnt good for him, but here and there they would go see a movie.
most of the time my ex needed to be alone and rest. no people and no distractions around him, he would say. he would get upset if i turn on my hair dryer or listen to music.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 6:04am
Wini says:
Dear Never again: When people cut other people down … it’s to build their low self esteems up. The one friend issue, I believe is insecurity mixed with arrogance. I had a child hood friend that never wanted to join the rest of the crowd (a circle of about 9 girlfriends) when we went to the beach, or had bar-b-q’s in each other’s backyards … whatever it was … she had to do solo events with me … never a crowd. When I was younger I thought it was insecurity on her part … as I got older I realized it was arrogance. Why arrogance. Arrogant that she didn’t want to share space with 9 others … give and take air time when speaking (10 women?), had to focus on her, her, her … and no one else. That’s why she always wanted to do one on one activities … didn’t want to compete for people’s attention. Funny, she always complained about the other 9 girlfriends calling them stuck up, snobs, etc. when in reality, she is the one that has these traits. I asked her to read the book “A New Earth” by Tolle, to understand the egos in the world. To this day, she refuses. I find that extremely informative when someone refuses to do something you as a friend are asking them to do. I see the same M.O. with your EX, not making friends, but blames other people for them not wanting to be in his life when it’s vice versa. Controlling … instead of sharing his life with you and enjoying you for who your are … has to belittle you and control you. All insecurity issues … that take on a life of it’s own. What you think, is your reality. Don’t down play when someone reveals something to you … oh, he/she meant this … not what they said … he/she is not really like this … they meant to do this or say this or that. When someone opens their mouth, they are revealing themselves. Do NOT make excuses for them.
Peace.
Peace.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 8:24am
Wini says:
Hi Everyone. Yes, I agree with all the steps we go through to recover … may I add one more … when we get to the point of focusing on our good qualities about ourselves, what we are all about, focusing on us again by writing a list of ALL our good qualities (bringing reality about ourselves from the subconscious to the conscious level) … so we can heal and be the best that we can be, even with this/these BUMPS in the road, we can still pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and move on better, stronger and wiser than before … and let’s not forget growing in our compassion and forgiveness qualities so that we can bring peace and tranquility back into our space.
Peace to everyone taking this journey.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 8:43am
henry says:
Dear Wini…. Good advice, I do need to focus more on my good qualitys and less on the evil he brushed off on me. I read all your post’s, you help me stay focused..thanks
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 10:56am
Wini says:
Out of the mouths of babes. Enjoy everyone.
Kids in Church
A Sunday school teacher asked her class, “What was Jesus’ mother’s name?”
One child answered, “Mary.”
The teacher then asked, “Who knows what Jesus’ father’s name was?”
A little kid said, “Verge.”
Confused, the teacher asked, “Where did you get that?”
The kid said, “Well, you know they are always talking about Verge
n’
Mary.”
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3-year-old, Reese:
“Our Father, Who does art in heaven, Harold is His name.
Amen.”
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A little boy was overheard praying: “Lord, if you can’t make me a better boy, don’t worry about it. I’m having a real good time like I am.”
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After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, “That preacher said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to stay with you guys.”
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I had been teaching my three-year old daughter, Caitlin, the Lord’s Prayer for several evenings at bedtime, she would repeat after me the lines from the prayer. Finally, she decided to go solo. I listened with pride as she carefully enunciated each word right up to the end of the prayer: “Lead us not into temptation,” she prayed, “but deliver us some E-mail.
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One particular four-year-old prayed, “And forgive us our trash baskets as we forgive those who put trash in our baskets.”
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A Sunday school teacher asked her children, as they were on the way to church service, “And why is it necessary to be quiet in church?” One bright little girl replied, “Because people are sleeping.”
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Six-year-old Angie and her four-year-old brother Joel were sitting together in church. Joel giggled, sang, and talked out loud. Finally, his big sister had had enough. “You’re not supposed to talk out loud in church.” “Why? Who’s going to stop me?” Joel asked. Angie pointed to the back of the church and said, “See those two men standing by the door? They’re hushers.”
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A mother was preparing pancakes for her sons, Kevin,5 and Ryan 3. The boys began to argue over who would get the first pancake. Their mother saw the opportunity for a moral lesson. “If Jesus were sitting here, He would say, ‘Let my brother have the first pancake, I can wait. Kevin turned to his younger brother and said, “Ryan, you be Jesus!”
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A father was at the beach with his children when the four-year-old son ran up to him, grabbed his hand, and led him to the shore where a seagull lay dead in the sand. “Daddy, what happened to him?” the son asked. “He died and went to Heaven,” the Dad replied. The boy thought a moment and then said, “Did God throw him back down?”
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A wife invited some people to dinner. At the table, she turned to their six-year-old daughter and said, “Would you like to say the blessing?” “I wouldn’t know what to say,” the girl replied. “Just say what you hear Mommy say,” the wife answered. The daughter bowed her head and said, “Lord, why on earth did I invite all these people to dinner?”
Peace and laugh hearty, it is good for your heart and soul.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 11:27am
blondie says:
why do they want to control you when your not even with them anymore?????
all they do is play games, try to isolate you from everyone. make up stories, that are lies. they try to blame you, they never take responablilty for what they did.. ahhhh its all drama. this website keeps me sane. thank you everyone for the support and stories.
NC DAY 1~ i blocked him from texting me. no more calls or emails.
Wednesday, 16 July 2008 @ 11:41am
Wini says:
Dear henry: Just go with it. Emotional pa