Psychopaths in everyday life
PDF In honor of the 4th of July we celebrate but also reflect on how to make our nation and world a better place. I therefore thought it would be fitting to review for you a book, Psychopaths in Everyday Life, by Robert W. Rieber. I highly recommend the book to readers who have some background in psychology. The book explains Dr. Rieber’s view of psychopathy and also discusses how psychopathy relates to what he calls “Social Distress Syndrome.” He says that America is plagued by this Social Distress Syndrome and therefore is breeding psychopaths/sociopaths.
First Dr. Rieber’s view on psychopathy. I was also fortunate to meet with Dr. Rieber to discuss his ideas in detail. He has interviewed many serial killers and has written extensively about psychopathy/sociopathy. By the way, he also has a lot to say about the case of Sybil and the idea of multiple personality.
His view of psychopathy is very similar to my own, and I should say, my own view was shaped prior to discovering this work. His view of psychopathy also appears to be very similar to that of Jack Levin, Ph. D., another psychologist who has worked with serial killers.
Dr. Rieber states, “In my view, the following four salient characteristics, thrill seeking, pathological glibness, the antisocial pursuit of power, and the absence of guilt, distinguish the true psychopath.” He further emphasizes that psychopathy is not a category but a continuum (a point I have also discussed previously see Psychopathy verses sociopathy again… ).
Drs. Rieber and Levin both have an opinion that sets them apart from other psychopathy experts. I want to share this view with you because I think you should be aware of differing opinions. Based on my personal and professional experiences, I also think their view has the advantage of helping us make sense of our first-hand observations.
If you read expert writings on psychopathy, you will see that the mainstream experts seem to hold the opinion that psychopaths/sociopaths lack guilt and empathy. Mainstream experts also teach that lack of a conscience is responsible for the disorder. Any therapist, teacher, minister or observer of humans will tell you that many people have a deficit in empathy and/or guilt and yet these people do not necessarily engage in an “antisocial pursuit of power.” I believe that the focus on the deficits of psychopaths has prevented us from seeing the most important aspect of the disorder- the antisocial pursuit of power.
The minute we say that victims are harmed, not because of a psychopath’s deficits, but because of his or her aberrant motivation, we have a good perspective on what we went through. We need to understand power motivation in order to understand the psychopath/sociopath. It is also power motivation, I believe, that ties psychopathy/sociopathy to the problems of our society.
There is a great quote from the book that leads into an explanation of another point that both Drs. Levin and Rieber make. It is, “The true psychopath compels the psychiatric observer to ask the perplexing, and largely unanswered question: Why doesn’t that person have the common decency to go crazy?”
So why don’t psychopaths have the common decency to go crazy? Dr. Rieber explains, “Since psychopaths act as if they were perfectly normal, i.e. sane, they must be skilled in a cunning manner to dissociate any real guilt that they should feel about their antisocial behavior.” He also says that since psychopaths dissociate, they don’t go crazy. He believes dissociation prevents them from experiencing guilt. He also says that many psychopaths do have some level of guilt they are dissociated from.
Dissociation is a difficult concept to grasp. It means to block out a thought or emotion. The ability to dissociate is related to hypnosis which is an induced dissociated state. Dr. Rieber told me that he does not believe that a person can be completely without guilt or empathy. He instead sees the psychopath/sociopath as being able to block out these from his/her experience. This view is shared by Dr. Levin who asks another interesting question. If psychopaths are unable to experience empathy, how is it that they enjoy hurting other people so much? To enjoy hurting they have to know and to some extent feel, they have hurt.
All of us have seen that psychopaths seek out ways to hurt people. They don’t do it by accident. They therefore have to have enough empathy to know when they have succeeded in their power goals and to feel gratified by the act of hurting. Dr. Levin terms the ability of a psychopath to be cut off from any negative emotion during the act of pleasure, compartmentalization. The concept of compartmentalization is basically the same as that of dissociation. When we discussed these terms, Dr. Rieber told me that Freud called the same process repression.
There is some interesting research from the lab of Dr. Joseph P. Newman demonstrating that psychopaths have an extraordinary ability to focus on a source of reward and ignore punishers. So there is experimental evidence supporting the link between psychopathy and dissociation/ compartmentalization/ repression.
But how is psychopathy related to The Social Distress Syndrome? Dr. Rieber puts together a nice argument demonstrating that the breakdown of all of our social institutions is associated with an increase in the prevalence of psychopathy. He says psychopaths and psychopathy permeate our society. However, the book does not discuss why or how social distress is causally related to psychopathy developing in individuals and in institutions. I will present my own opinion about that for you to consider on this July 4th.
If the pleasures of power and thrill seeking are behind psychopathy, and psychopaths can easily ignore everything within and outside themselves to focus on these pleasures, then we have to ask, “How is it that these pleasures become the most important thing in a person’s life?” The answer to that question has been in scientific writings for a long time and in religious writings for even longer.
The great primate researcher Harry Harlow made the observation nearly 30 years ago that the motivations of love and power are in an opposing balance. He discovered that thankfully in primates including humans, the love motive develops before the power motive. Because the love motive develops first it is stronger and puts the brakes on the power motive. A baby starts learning to love at birth or even before. The desire for power doesn’t start until the second year of life.
Now we can see the link between social distress and psychopathy/sociopathy. When all of our society’s institutions are broken, including the family, we are robbed of the capacity to fully experience love and to develop the ability to love. Instead of being motivated to love and care we become motivated to compete and take. The motivations of love and power are mutually exclusive, so a person can’t be simultaneously motivated by both. Also the pleasure of love has to be practiced to be maintained. There is no vaccination against evil. Love during childhood doesn’t prevent psychopathy for life. If love is not practiced during all phases of life relationships become power focused instead.
The answer for ourselves, the psychopath and our country is simple and yet extremely difficult. We need to restore ourselves to a place of love for our fellow humans. If love is primary we will still engage in friendly competition, but we will not get pleasure from cutting each other’s throats!
Love motivation has to permeate our families, our places of worship, our schools, our work places, our government and our foreign policy. When love rather than power becomes our most important pleasure, then we will all have a path toward social and personal well-being.
Until our collective pleasure balance is in the right loving place, we will all have to cope with the Psychopaths in Everyday Life.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
DEar Stillsorting,
Welcome to the “club”–but sorry you have the “qualifications” to “join”—LOL This is a healing place and sounds like you are already on the healing road. Again, welcome, and sorry you had to experience this painful relationship, but in the end, if we finally get there, it will be a valuable learning experience and hopefully render you not vulnerable to the next one.
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JaneSmith says:
Still sorting,
Yes, welcome to the LoveFraud fellowship. Yet again another wonderful, good woman dealing with the pain & suffering of a predator. You also described my x PDIs implicitly.
If we only knew then what we know now…..
My X Music Man was terrible in social situations also. He seemed to expect me to cover territory that either left him subject to ridicule or he really didn’t trust or like people at all. I suspect both reasons. Can we say…HUGE RED FLAG?
So many red flags, in so little time that I think I actually began rationalizing his behavior, believing he was a tortured human being. Whatever. As Oxy reminds us repeatedly, many of us had less than stellar upbringings (as you spoke of yours living with a narcissist AND a sociopath..awful, just horrible) and preceeding destructive relationships with PDIs, yet we don’t ever inflict our own emotional pain on others.
They project and discard their own human weaknesses, their pain onto us in a selfish effort to rid themselves of what they consider beneath them, that they are above such ridiculous character flaws. They unlovingly bequeath us with their crapola because they’re emphatically incapable of being responsible, accountable adults.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience. We are here to listen and support each other through the total mess they create for us.
stupid psychos…
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stillsortingitout says:
Thanks Jane and Oxy,
I really appreciate the support. I agree about all the stupid red flags. Healthy people spot these right away. I’m not sure why, even when I think I’m looking out for flags, I don’t see them for what they are and get taken in. I was reading a couple other threads on this site about society changing and extoling the virtues of greed rather than love, and another thread about the voice of a psychopath. Listening to that guy Dimitri was so strange! Part of me was laughing at what a loser the guy was. Sadly, a small part of me was putting myself in Olga’s place and would secretly have felt great that someone considered me “elegant” and worth his valuable time!! This is the part I know I need to fix.
I also have existential-type thoughts about how society has changed. How the majority value steam-rolling people for profit and how things actually should be. If we see someone hurting or in need we who have empathy and compassion should be able to help them. Isn’t that the only way to change things? How can we do that, though? I’ve learned to look out for many traits, but I keep getting sucked in by the wrong people. I’m working on this in therapy. I have a wonderful psychologist. Her theory is that there are those of us on earth who are types of “angels” (her term, not mine!). We angels attract people who have many sick qualities that they need to fix. We angels show them the high road and invite them to come with us -because we see the potential beauty in them and want the best for them. But, for whatever reason or weakness in them, they choose to take the sick and easier path. They’ve lost an opportunity to change and grow. I like the thought of that, and try to hang on to it. Sometimes, though, the pain they inflict is just too much for me. Maybe that’s what a group like this is for. Fellowship and support. Thanks again!
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Wini says:
Dear Henry: You should read the book “A New Earth”. I believe you would love this book. Especially, if you think you can’t get over something. You can log onto Oprah.com give yourself a password and download all Tolle’s taped detailed discussion about the 10 chapters of the book. It’s FREE. Just log in and start listening to what this man has to say. I highly recommend this author for anyone who wants to understand themselves better.
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Wini says:
Dear stillsortingitout: The reason WE attrack anti-social personalities is easy to answer. We are nice, decent, thoughtful, caring, loving, kind, etc. etc. The other women don’t, cause they are B – t – hes. Plain and simple. You can tell your therapist that.
Peace.
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eyesopened says:
Henry
I’ve read all your posts since you started posting and I think you’re very “right” and so do your boys and your grandkids, your dogs and Miss Puss…in fact, I bet you’re a hero to all of them.
I know you’re doing some soul-searching right now and I’m happy for you but I just wanted to say I think you’re pretty ok!
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JaneSmith says:
Free,
I crack myself up many times. It’s always been rather easy for me to giggle at me over something I said or did. Usually when I’ve just tripped on a little pebble and fallen in front of a huge audience…haha. My clumsiness keeps me humble, keeps me from being a vain brat!
And YES!! I applaud you, sister! I’ve been reflecting on my past experiences with negative, unfulfilling, just plain awful people in my life. All of them since ditching the Music Man from my life. As Donna wrote…”struck gold” is what I did. And I am so, so very grateful for discovering all that buried crap I felt for sure was finished, gone, dust. It wasn’t.
Now, I consider myself super rich after striking that ignored gold. Like you, I am a tough, smart woman today. I have altered quite a bit of my own behavior, attitudes and it’s been so beneficial for me. I actually challenge people now if they intrude on my boundaries, my space. I say..”No, don’t do that. It’s not right.” And, it works! They back off.
I was also a chronic apology giver even when I wasn’t the one who was at fault. Not anymore. Those days are done! I still apologize to my cats and my furniture when I bump into them, but noone sees this except the Lord, and He’s not telling…haha.
You’re so awesome, Free. I love reading your comments to me and to all the LoveFraud peeps. I can actually feel your positive vibrations in every word you write.
Now, let’s go get a carrot juice cocktail and tofu salad. Then we’ll swing by an animal shelter and love up on all the critters. Maybe take a few of the babies home with us….haha.
***BIG HUG****
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JaneSmith says:
Wini,
What’s wrong with being a b*tch? Feminists (which I consider myself one of a much maligned group of women) consider it a favorable description for empowered women. A term of grudging admiration. A compliment if you will. I agree wholeheartedly. When a predator can’t force you to comply to his selfish wants (like saying…”smile!”) he calls you a b*tch. So? Good! Stay away, sicko predator!
Anyway, b*tch is short for Babe In Total Control of Herself. So cool! So true!
I asked my best friend (x bf -5 yrs) if he would call me a b*tch, because it’s been YEARS since anyone has. I can’t remember when the last time I was referred to in that way. I think maybe I’ve been submitting to Kathy’s “cult of nice” and allowing too, too many people to stomp on me at their pleasure.
He was horrified! He said…”NO! I can’t call you that! Even if you think it’s a compliment!”..haha.
sigh….darn that man for being such a gentleman and not calling me a b*tch!…haha
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OxDrover says:
Wow, FRee, great post!
I too do the “emotional autopsy” on relationships, or if they are still possibly viable sometimes “exploratory surgery” –LOL
The boundary setting with those close to me is still in its beginning stages, but having been okay with boundary setting with those not so close to me, I have some practice, and I AM getting better at setting boundaries for those close to me.
The thing we have to realize is that when we set a boundary, we have to be prepared for the END of that relationship if it is not respected. I think in the past I was never prepared to “end” a close relationshp for “something so small”—well the “somethings small” seem to pile up into a huge mountain if you dont’ “nip it in the bud” so to speak.
Abuse starts small, and if it is not “noticed” or “confronted” early on it will escalate and before long you don’t even notice but the relationshp has become very painful and the abuse obvious. How did that happen? When did that happen? SLOWLY is how and when.
Now I am finally prepared to let ANY RELATIONSHIP go if the person is abusive to me. I dont walk on egg shells around anyone. I try to be fair, honest, and open with those I love, but when I feel that I am having to “walk on egg shells” around them, I call a halt, take things into perspective (so I don’t just fly off the handle cause I’m having a bad day) but then I ACT on it in a cool, rational, and calm way. Setting a boundary and having set it, I am prepared to defend it. Even if it ends the relationship.
I can’t remember here who pointed it out to me, forgive my poor memory, but I was talking about setting boundaries over “small” things, and she pointed out that it isn’t the size of the boundary it is the DISRESPECT that they show, so no, you are not cutting someone out of your life for eating the last piece of cake, you are shutting them out for “showing disrespect”—and there is a big difference there.
Have a good day!!!!!
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James says:
I would like to play the list game but mine comes with a twist…
I can love, you never will!
I can feel empathy for others, you refuse too or can’t!
I enjoy my emotions (feeling) you block your!
I can accept my part of responsibility and accountability. You never will!
I can heal from this pain, you live in denial and never will grow or heal from your pain!
I can learn to like myself for who I am, you only have a fault self and never will know yourself!
I will go on to have a normal loving and caring relationship, your will always be dysfunctional and without compassion!
I will learn to trust others, you can’t trust anyone but yourself!
I know my children love and care for me, does your?
I will grow old with my children, were are your children today?
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OxDrover says:
Jane, a friend of mine calls me an OSB which is short for “old school bitch” which is the highest compliment she can pay. My preferred term is CRONE, which is an old English word for “wise old woman” and I wear my crone-hood proudly.
There’s a cute little book called “Crones Don’t Whine” written by an MD whose name I have forgotten (CRS–there goes my memory!) but it is quite a nice little book and celebrates the wisdom and knowledge that we crones have gotten in our lives. You can of course become an old, bitter, not wiser woman, but I choose to become a Crone and be proud of that. No hair dye for me, no dressing up like “Botox Barbie” or trying to pretend I look 20 instead of 60, but to be MYSELF, and not be ashamed of the wrinkles or the droops.
Actually I wouldn’t be 20 again for all the tea in china unless I could KNOW WHAT I KNOW NOW—and that ain’t gonna happen. POWER TO THE OLD CRONES AND OSBs. LOL
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Wini says:
Sorry JaneSmith: I thought it was a snotty question for a so-called professional to have asked you. Especially in the condition you were at during that session. I used the wrong terminology and realized it after I sent the e-mail. I was trying to think of a word I could use, but the “B” word came to mind, since most of the women (not all) that are in my life keep asking me the same question. My eyes are rolling back because I’m sure people are going to say that we asked for all this, for them to come into our lives, power of attraction and all that. Well, I have a question. What if our Ex’s were using power of attraction to capture us? Ha!. Why is it always dumped back in our lives. That’s because I don’t think there is an answer for this. But, I’d like to see one of these so-called experts run into any of our Ex’s and see how well they do. I bet they won’t post here to tell us about it. Have to keep their image up and running. Mea Culpa.
Peace.
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JaneSmith says:
Wini, I think you gots me confused with Still Sorting.
I don’t DO traditional counseling. Reading the Word, prayer is my therapy. Chattin with you fantabulous people is my therapy. Dancing my fancy moves til my muscles ache pleasantly, my cheeks flush and my hair is plastered to my head from sweat is my therapy. Writing my poetry, short stories is my therapy. Kissin, huggin on my kitty kats is my therapy. Sharing thoughts, support, care, fun with my best friend is my therapy.
I did visit a social worker once who was also a counselor, for possible medicine treatment due to lingering depression after conquering generalized anxiety. She shared much more than I did as I’ve always been hesitant to discuss my personal life with strangers. We talked for a couple of hours, about her problems with family and her work. I think she enjoyed herself being able to have someone listen to HER for once and not the other way. It was a great time!…haha
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Wini says:
JaneSmith: I hear you. Yes, some do need to talk. My sister insisted (nice words) that I go see the counselor where she works … freebie of six sessions she never used due to her job. Long story short, I’m sitting in this office chatting. If you were a fly on the wall, the counselor’s face went ghost ashe … pulling herself together, she added “I’ve seen this on TV, in the movies and books, but I’ve never met anyone ….”. My heart went out to her, great therapist … but I couldn’t sit there and rehash what I already knew. It was over and done with and … now was time for me to heal. Plus, she finally admitted that I was FORCED to live with and through forced Post Traumatic Stress. Daaaaaaaaaa. D’You think? It was refreshing that a health professional finally admitted it (you could tell she was in touch with her emotions). No one ever admitted this while they were putting me through it, only insisting that I (or anyone) have to endure this. That’s the thing about anti-socials, intellectually they know what they are doing to a person (they read too) … it’s the emotional (putting the breaks on) part that’s missing. If they could feel what they were doing to another, they would never venture down this road.
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OxDrover says:
A while back I sat down and made a list of the people I have known in my life that I think, in retrospect, were psychopaths. Starting of course with my biological father, that I didn’t get to know until I was a teenager and went to work for him.
The list ended up quite long and included my x-father-in-law from my first husband, my mother’s brother, probably my grandmother (she was at least a high level malicious Narcissist in not a full fledged psychopath) Her father (seemed to have all the life-style of one, a bigamist for one, multiple marriages (4 at least, 2 at the same time), My mother’s paternal grandfather, several of his ancestors back to the 1800s,
A guy I dated once for a short time when I was first out on my own who hit me, and when I kicked him to the curb, stalked me, came back and put me in the hospital, and then went to jail, then continued stalking me afterwards for several months.
Several bosses I’ve had, several people who worked for me, several business associates, a neighbor or two, a couple that rented houses from me, Some co-workers, a physician I worked for a short time for. My hospital transferred me to her clinic where she had gone-through 3 LPNs, 3 Advanced Practice nurses, 3 office managers, and a nurse’s aid in 2 years time. I worked for her for one day, and then told my boss that they could fire me but I would not work for that woman. Fortunately, my boss said “well, I couldn’t work for her either” so she let me stay where I had been with the same physician for 10 years (and never had a cross word over anything) it ended up they closed the clinic because they could not “fire” the doctor and wouldn’t sanction her (and she was an EXCELLENT physician, just a poor excuse for a human being!) and no Advance Practice Nurse would work for her and the clinic had to have an APN as it was a “rural health” clinic and medicare mandated that there be an APN there at least 20 hours a week. Thankfully, the APN community in my state at that time was small enough that “everyone” in it knew which physicians you couldn’t “safely” work with.
There are LOTS of psychopaths in “everyday” life—many times until you get to “know” them by working with them, dating them, living next door to them, or whatever, you don’t recognize them for what they are, because many times they are able to “hide” under the “cloak” of professional success or degrees or religious affiliation or just superficial “courtesy” but when you get to know these people on any intimate level by living near them or working with them, it behoves us to be CAREFUL, they can destroy your peace, your professional career or a hundred other problems they can cause. They can dupe others to help the do their malicious deeds and all for no reason other than CONTROL, POWER, or just plain old MALICE and the enjoyment of “winning” against someone and seeing that person “bleed.”
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Wini says:
Dear OxDrover: Funny that you mentioned putting a list together. I put a list together drawing a line down the middle what I liked about my ex husband and what I didn’t like about him. Pros and Cons list. The I added all the guys I ever dated, listing all their pros and cons. Then I added my dad on the list because I needed to write more on the positive side – the list was getting lopsided. Not stopping there I added my mom, my siblings, my friends, aunts, uncles, grandparents … the list basically was of many people I knew. I did this to remind me (bring it out of my subconscious to my conscious level) what I liked about people and what I absolutely would not put up with people. When I met my EX and would talk on the phone he hit so many of the positive sides to the list I couldn’t get over it. I was going to introduce him to my best friend because I was so busy with school that I didn’t have time to focus on a relationship. Long story short, last spring, when the weather cleared up I cleaned out one bay of my garage (My ex’s crap took over my garage). A friend came over to help (Ok, he’s an ex boyfriend from HS that we stayed friends all these years, nice guy). Anyway, I’m leaning against the fence and my friend is carry a garbage can full of junk out. As he’s lugging this can I noticed a paper stuck to the bottom of the can. I pulled it out and looked at it. It was one page of my pros and cons list … in the garage. When I clean out the other bay of the garage I will find the entire list. My EX studied this list. That’s why he knew everything to make me happy (so I thought). That’s why I never got to see what he was behind the mask. Incredible. True story.
Peace. I’m taking deep, deep, deep breaths now. Another true story. Things that my bosses did at work to me that didn’t bother me that much. Stopped. Things that I told my EX about that drove me nuts … amplified. D’ya think? Me too.
Final note, I accidently was looking through my EX’s attache case for a magic marker … and found one of my manager’s business card. He left our relationship soon after that … using business out of state excuse.
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southernman429 says:
Wini…
I just started reading Tolle’s “The New Earth” I had bought it and “the Power Of Now” a year and a half ago… Read the Power of Now, (Hard read)… win what part of “The New Earth In what part does it talk about getting over something that you think you cannot?…… I have had a “bad” day today.. some of the “ghosts” have channeled back to me… I am very surprised by this… it’s been months since I felt this way.
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Wini says:
southernman429: It’s quieting your mind by focusing on your pets or a flower or a tree. Listen to your breathing, breath in and exhale, inhale, exhale etc. etc. for a few minutes just keep focusing on your breathing. Keep focusing on every breath and it will eventually bring you into the “now”. This moment, right now, is all we have. Not yesterday, not tomorrow, right now. Don’t worry if you can’t focus right away, it takes practice to turn off your ego (thoughts in your head). The more you practice it, the better at it you get. Just breath.
I’m glad you got the book. It’s a definite must read.
Peace.
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Wini says:
southernman429: I forgot. You can go on Oprah’s site for free. Oprah.com log in, give yourself a password. She’s keeping Tolle’s taped classes on line for a while because she knows everyone needs to read and hear him. There is 10 detailed discussions with an audience from around the globe. Just download them to your computer or IPod and listen to this man. He is unbelievable. There are others on there too. They’re all intense.
Peace.
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newworld view says:
southernman….i attend a book club and we meet every thurs and that how i found out about the books and oprahs site….but for me the book is too hard to focus on and i have the cd’s….much easier to listen to while driving or at home and amazing the peace that it brings to you…just concentrating on this moment …not the last one not the next one…just deliberately enjoying this one, even if at a red light….it is very calming and peaceful…for some the tapes are better
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JaneSmith says:
Oxy aka OSB…haha.
That’s funny. When my best friend refused to call me a b*tch, I told him..”Fine. I’ll just antagonize some random guy out on the street, maybe HE will call me a b*tch. My luck though, he’ll ask me out on a date!”
Ya know, I’ve read that in pagan mythology, people would worship the 3 goddesses: The Maiden, The Mother, and The Crone. The Maiden for virtue, purity, thirst for knowledge; The Mother for bringing forth life, compassion, nurturing spirit; and the Crone for good ole wisdom, what she gained through a lifetime of experience and shared with the youngsters.
I worship only the Lord, but I think it’s important to celebrate the cycles of a woman’s life. Don’t you agree?
I also wanted to say I read your comment ^ there about the psycho list. Maybe I’m being skeptical but I really believe that the statistics are too darn low for psychopaths AND the entire spectrum of PDIs. If the lousy psychiatric associations can’t even agree to a decisive term, then how can we expect them to do any valid research? And if they have “performed extensive research” just where did they locate the subjects? What tests did they administer to determine if subject A has a definitive PD.
I’m just gonna do what you’re gonna do: STAY the H*LL away from them if even one iddy biddy red flag pops up on my radar. I’m taking no more foolish chances with my sanity, my physical person, my valuable precious life!
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OxDrover says:
Southernman,
Go read the essay thread on “triggers—mean there is anger and pain you need to process” it is really a good one. I recently went through a new set of paiin over my NC with my mother, and I thought I had that “ghost” put to rest, but obviously there was still some lurking pain and anger I hadn’t processed. I THINK I am through it now, at least consciously I FEEL like I am, thinking about her, visualizing her in my mind, etc. and even realizing today how she used “mind reading” to accuse me of things, or to excuse herself for the things she did to me, like not telling me about my aunt’s memorial service “Well, I didn’t think you’d want to go” etc.
I realized she had done that to me my entire life, but (roll eyes and shrug shoulders) so what, just more of “the same” stuff she’s done that I hadn’t even noticed as “abuse” but now can see that it was a form of abuse.
We all I think have some back and forth “progress” and I think it can be expected, but of course it still hurts, but each back step allows us to run forward when it is over. (((Hugs))))
“
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Wini says:
Dear southernman429: That’s a typical reaction from being violated by someone you loved. Take a deep breath. Focus on your breathing. Listen to your breath inhaling and exhaling. Don’t focus on anything else but listening to your breathing. As soon as you only focus on your breathing … a total calm will come over you. That is God’s calmness, tranquility, peace and love. That is what we were suppose to get from those we loved .
… Oh, by the way, even the obnoxious (that’s what Tolle calls them, obnoxious with heavy pain bodies) is our expressing our love for God. What we see in others is our love for God.
Remember this while you heal yourself. Be kind and good to yourself. If you don’t want to answer the phone or the door, don’t. If you don’t want to see someone and they insist on coming by. Don’t. Now is the time for you. I liked soaking for hours in a steamy hot tub with my favorite music playing …. one night I couldn’t even get out of the tub. I was going to freak, but I chilled and managed to climb out. I was like a floppy doll. (LOL) ….ooooohhh, oooooohhh, oooohhh, I just remembered what Tolle said about sleeping. Lie directly in the middle of your bed … arms and legs stretched out, flat on your back, no pillow … and go to sleep. He said, that’s what we are suppose to do while we sleep. You are going to sleep like a baby. And after you do, thank God for this (smile) that’s God pampering you.
Peace.
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rperk6069 says:
Not to break up the thread or anything, but I kind of need some advise. An old friend of mine, who also knows the P, told me tonight that he heard that J, is supposedly doing wonderful. The woman (girl, who is 27 by now and he is going on 44) whom he got pregnant while he was with me, is now pregnant again by him and supposedly off the meth, has a good job and is living within 7 miles of me just doing great. This is what J told his hairdresser who told my friend. Now my perdicument is, that makes me feel like crap. He treated me so very bad and now I don’t know what to do with my feelings which I know are wrong. Can someone give me some insight in why I am feeling this way cuz I am too close to the situation to figure it out myself. I haven’t seen him in over a year and haven’t spoken to him since the last day in Feb. of this year in which he told me how unhappy he is with “her”. Please help. Thanx
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henry says:
Hi Perky.. I am sure some of the wiser bloggers will come too comfort and advise you. But from my point of view, it’s sound like a lot of gossip and I would ask your friend not to tell you anything about him, you don’t need to know what is going on, good or bad, you need to enforce your no contact by telling this friend this. I don’t know any body that know’s my X’s whereabout or what is going on but if I do come across a mutual aquantance and they udder the word MIKE I will stop them right there and tell them I dont want to know….next subject…
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OxDrover says:
Dear rperk,
I’m so sorry you are going through this right now, I do know how hard it is..but Henry’s suggestion is the right one, now that ou are NC physically you need to go NC emotionally. That means no talking about him, and no listening about him.
But keep this in mind, “she’s off meth”–I’m glad for her, but do you really think she will STAY off meth with the P in her life? Probably not. “Having another baby”—boy that makes me hAPPY—NOT!!! A meth head for a mother and the P for a father, that child in cursed before it is born without even one good functional parent.
Hun, he will never be “doing wonderful” for very long, you can BET on that. She is not better than you are, and my guess is that she is just strung out enough on the Meth that for this minute she thinks he is “wonderful”–by getting preg again we can tell for sure she isn’t “wise” now can’t we?
You got the best of the deal, my dear,you got RID of HIM!!
(((((BIG HUGS))))
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Beverly says:
Dear Rperk, when I first broke with my ex, he cleverly used mutual acquaintainces to send me information about how well he was doing and how he had met someone else alot younger blah blah blah blah. At first I was annoyed and jealous, and then I thought, yea he has deliberately done this to wind me up at a distance and to try and give me the impression that he has a ‘new life’ with someone else and not to get involved. Perfect ploy – he final stab in the back.
But after I calmed down, I resolved NOT to speak to any mutual acquaintances about info on either side, either coming from me or him. He still doesnt know I have had cancer, as although I know he will never contact me again (he did too much), I will never contact him for any reason, even to let him know that.
Finally, I know that whatever relationship he is in, will never work out long term (unless he finds a willing slave) and that as soon as he is up to his tricks, most women will put him out with the trash. So take heart Rperk, its just a way of winding you up and engaging all your thoughts on him.
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rperk6069 says:
Thank you all. Last night I was upset, mostly because of the way I felt when I heard about him. I was kind of shocked that I still had even a little bit of feeling left toward him. I don’t like the fact that he is back in my area and too close to where I live and hope he stays away from me. I guess the warning is good so I know to keep my eyes open. (He likes to drive by peoples houses and check up on them).
I feel sorry for the new victim and the children she is having with him. Especially the children. They are innocent and he has 4 older children already with his ex-wife that he doesn’t take care of or support.
I see I have quite a bit farther to go in the healing process, just thought I was farther along then I truly am.
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Wini says:
If, every time you knocked on my door I punched you in the nose … how often would you visit me? Think about this. What I just explained is physical abuse. Mental abuse is the same except you can’t see the bloody nose.
Remember this whenever you think of your EXs. Remember the punch in your nose and they will continue to punch every time you open your door (aka, your heart, your mind, your emotions). You can only knock on their door when they too, go through self evaluation, feel the emotions, grow, forgive, be compassionate again, learn how to love and respect every one and everything.
Peace to your heart and souls as you go through the process of recovering after the abuse.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Rperk,
The triggers that come back from time to time do tell us that we have more healing to do (there is a thread here on that, go back and reread it again. I do quite often)
A few weeks ago when my contact with my XDIL-P and my mother triggered a “break down” and tears etc. I realized I had some more healing to do, and I THINK I got it right this time, but if another trigger zings me I will go back and redo it again, eventually as we make baby steps we start to be able to make bigger steps, so don’t let this little set back make you think you haven’t already done a LOT of healing because you have, and these little back tracks are just to “sweep” the corners again where we missed a little something with the “broom” of our healing. I find when I sweep my kitchen with a real broom that I always have to go back and do it again because somehow no matter how carefully I sweep there is always a pretty good pile of stuff I missed the first time through, so I do it a second time and am always amazed at the pile of dirt I missed the first time through. I think our healing is the same way emotionally, and we miss a pile of pain here or there, little ones, but as we “keep sweeping” we get it all “cleaned out” ((((hugs)))))
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