Lessons after the sociopath: Real love is easy
In posts to this blog, and in e-mails that I receive, many Lovefraud readers wonder, after the devastation of a sociopath, if they can love again.
Yes, you can.
I am living proof. In February 2000, I was divorced from James Montgomery, who took a quarter of a million dollars from me, cheated throughout our brief two-and-a-half year relationship, had a child with another woman while married to me, and then married that woman 10 days after I left him, committing bigamy. I was devastated.
After I left Montgomery, I had one nice relationship with a man, although it didn’t turn out to be permanent. He was normal, not disordered, and supportive of me. I was sad when the relationship ended, but it was a step along my path towards healing.
Then, in April 2001, I met Terry Kelly. We married in 2005. We are totally happy and in love. Here is something that I’ve learned from my new marriage: Real love is easy.
Signs of real love
In real love, there are no mind games. There is no manipulation. There are no guilt-producing accusations like, “Don’t you trust me?” or “Who are you sleeping with?” There is no pleading to be forgiven, no promises to never do it again, because there are no violations of trust that require forgiveness.
I do not wonder if my husband really loves me, because I know he does. I can feel it.
Here’s what you get in a true, loving relationship: Enjoyment of each other’s company. Honest caring for each other. Consideration of each other’s feelings. Real partnership—not a one-sided deal, with you as the giver and the other as the taker.
Sure, there problems that need to be solved. Guess what? Issues are resolved and life goes on. There is no drama.
I will say this—after the disaster of a marriage to a sociopath, I am highly appreciative of my new husband. He, too, was previously married, and although his ex wasn’t malicious, the relationship had become empty. So we both appreciate each other. In fact, we find joy in each other.
Making the transition
So how does this happen? How do you make the transition from wounded victim to a whole person ready for love?
As I’ve written before, I believe your emotional pain needs to be processed. When my heart was broken, it allowed all the trauma from my bad marriage, and all the pent-up pain from other disappointments in my life, to be released. Slowly, over time, it came flowing out, through tears, yelling, screaming and punching pillows.
You don’t want to inflict this display on other people—my releases were witnessed only by my therapist and my dog. And they really upset the dog.
The emotional release takes time, because we all have many layers of pain. But as the negative energy dissipates, there is room in your being for something else. That something else is love.
So if you’re in recovery after a run-in with a sociopath, give yourself time and permission to heal. Trust that you’ve learned the red flags of personality disorders, and by listening to your instincts, you won’t be deceived again. Believe that love is possible, and someday, it will find you.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
JaneSmith says:
Awww…..you look so beautiful and happy in that picture as does your husband.
I believe that as I am a caring, loving woman that the possibility of finding a man who is also caring & loving is more than likely. As long as I rely on my beloved intuition, my renewed self-respect, my erected boundaries and my valuable knowledge regarding predators and their nasty machinations I can and will find a good, decent, normal man who truly cares for me. The law of probability is in my favor. And one thing I am is stubborn. I absolutely refuse to allow bitterness and fear to take permanent residence in my heart. Uh-Uh…No way, jose!
Thank you for sharing your lovely wedding picture and your inspiring thoughts with LoveFraud. Greatly appreciated!
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 1:32pm
EnnLondon says:
Nothing to say apart from to second that - you both look great. Beautiful photo. Lovely, elegant dress too!
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 4:07pm
lesley says:
A picture’s worth a thousand words. This picture really gives me hope. Thanks!
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 4:31pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Donna,
Yea, you are so right! REAL love isn’t painful.
My husband was not handsome like yours is, but he was so charming that women from 6 to 96 fell “in love” with him almost instantly, but never did I ever wonder when he was traveling on business who he was with–because if he wasn’t working he was on the phone with me. There was never a night that we spent apart that we didn’t talk on the phone for an hour or more, usually more, because each detail of our day was important to the other, and we discussed almost anything from politics to mechanics.
We each had our interests the other didn’t share, but even then we talked about them to each other.
We disagreed, but like you said “there was no drama” and no “meanness.”
Thanks for sharing your beautiful photo, and congratulations on finding the “real thing”—if anyone in the world deserves it, YOU and your handsome man DO!
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 6:27pm
southernman429 says:
Beautiful…..simply beautful…
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 7:08pm
alohatraveler says:
Donna,
Thanks so much for sharing this. I need a little hope.
I was dating someone but it didn’t work out. In retrospect, we just weren’t clicking at all and I was being very paranoid. He was keeping things so casual and he didn’t understand all the things that were getting stirred up in me.
I really would like to meet someone. It has been almost 3 years since I left the Bad Man. I am still working on stablinzing the details of my life. And I am closing in on the debts I accrued in Hawaii. I can’t wait to put that behind me forever.
Anyway, thanks so much for sharing. I love the happy look on your face and the way your husband is looking at you. How sweet! I hope this happens for me sooner than later. I have waited a long time.
:o)
Aloha
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 9:38pm
southernman429 says:
alohatraveler….
I believe that as long as you keep your dream alive.. and be expectant, it will come to pass. If you are spiritual, then by all means give this to God above and let him work those details out as far as finding someone. He picks much better then us…. smiles… Be easy on yourself, get your ducks in order, and when it’s the right time….it will happen. You have worked so hard and have come so far….be patient, be expectant, be discerning, and most of all.. take God’s love and forgiveness…and give yourself the gift of your own love….Others will be able to see that in you…Confidence, self assurance, wisdom, and love…. those are the things that will bring to you the man who is befitting of your beautiful, wonderful love.
~Rick
Monday, 23 June 2008 @ 10:27pm
alohatraveler says:
Thanks Southernman… I needed that. :o)
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 12:34am
Wini says:
Dear Donna,
Good luck and the best to both you and your husband. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.
I know for myself, the next relationship I should get involved with I will insist both of us will be reading God’s word via the Bible daily for about a half hour per day. God will ensure that we are on the right track through God’s love, not man made ego and man made illusions of what man/women thinks is right or wrong. I will also ensure the new man in my life reads Tolle’s “A New Earth” just to understand how the ego takes on a life of it’s own.
God Bless you Both
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 4:27am
Free says:
Donna, thanks for sharing your story. Your picture shows your some kind of wonderful that we all deserve. I needed to read a happy ending today.
I do not wonder if my husband really loves me, because I know he does. I can feel it.
That is key isn’t it? To feel it when you are with someone. Because, that feeling is something I didn’t feel in my life until I realised that I had to love me first before others can. So, I am beginning to understand what love really is. I have learnt that you need to love yourself first so you recognise when someone isn’t or is loving you.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 4:32am
Free says:
Aloha, I firmly believe that you will attract someone to your heart. When I read your posts, I see that you are still healing your life.
You may not realise it, but you have taken a gigantic step towards healing by walking away from a relationship that was not equal to the warm, wonderful, vibrant woman that you are. You are a wonderful woman, don’t forget that, even on the days you are feeling blue. It takes time to meet your equal. The wait will be worth it. In the meantime, keep doing what you are doing, love yourself like there is no tomorrow. xxxxx
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 4:46am
HoneybearII says:
I, too, after a 32-year marriage to someone with a narcissistic personality disorder, have remarried. So I, also, know it is possible to have a REAL relationship after the devastation of living with a liar and a manipulator.
It took a couple of years of really intense therapy to work through what my ex had done to me but I determined that I would come out on the other side of that trauma without bitterness and without believing that all men were pigs, LOL. I, also, wept a LOT of tears and had to delve into a lot of my own issues, but it was well worth the pain of those months and months of therapy. When I met my husband, I was standing on my own two feet and in my own truth.
I cannot even begin to explain the difference between this marriage and the 32 years of living with the jerk. It is a marriage based on mutual love and acceptance. He doesn’t expect me to be perfect, he doesn’t expect me to make him happy, he doesn’t expect me to always be supportive and accepting. And I have no such expectations of him. We are two imperfect people who still find each other loveable and that was an amazing discovery for me. Living with a psychopath, you are not allowed to ever show any kind of imperfection so you live your life twisting and turning yourself into a pretzel in order to please and you NEVER achieve your goal - being loved just for yourself. That is because the issues are NOT in your unloveableness, but in the other person’s inability to love.
Honey
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:15am
iradessa says:
I needed that. I have been craving to hear a victory story. That we go through this and we can still live they cannot take that from us. I have gone through so much over the past 9 1/2 years in dealing with this man. We were divorced 41/2 years ago and that didn’t heal me right away. I needed the time and it is taking some doing on my end. But I am willing to do what needs to be done for me. My children and I are worth it today. Always were. I am so happy for you that you found true love. You are a ray of hope for us all and you were very responsible, noble in sharing thank you.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 9:42am
sinus25 says:
beauty, i have left her in december, my inside is more full, now im with another woman, yes..we all will be happy:)
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 11:01am
selena says:
you haveno idea how much your story is saving me. I got out fast and I know I am a lucky girl. the fact that he wanted to marry me so quickly was such a tip off. The only reason I didnt marry “the evil one” was the fact that the warrent out for his arrest got him before I walked down the isle. He is not the first sociopath ive loved. Your site is teaching me so much about real love and how I got trapped in the first place. Im so happy for you that you have good love now. I hope to heal and get healthy enough to have that someday. I seriously love all of us. We are beautiful souls who have been shown the truth. Thank you for the hope after the tears and anger.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 12:36pm
Benzthere says:
1Co 13:13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love (NLT). Thank you for your inspiration, God’s blessings to you both!
Benz
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 1:50pm
alohatraveler says:
Wow Free! You made me cry with just a few lines.
It was better for me to just let this man go and I had been thinking of asking him to not contact me anymore but he beat me to the punch. He sent an email that said, “Please don’t contact me. I am sorry things worked out this way.” Well, that did not feel good at all especially in the context of what “no contact” means to us here.. It means the person on the other end is nuts. I had to sit with that for a few days.
I started wondering, am I disordered? My lifelong friends assured me I am not.
But this man, right from the first time I met him, was akward. WE were akward together. Almost every interaction left me feeling somehow kind of rejected. Like he sounded bored on the phone so I would wait until he called me… then he would STILL sound bored and cut conversations short. He kept our dates really short too. I started to think “to hell with it” and just when I was forgetting about him, the late night text message would come “just checking in.” Checking in on what? I would classify this as the most non-relationship relationship I have ever had. His delight in me was underwhelming to say the least. Like there was nothing to bounce off of… Try flirting with a manequin. Not much coming back at you and you feel kind of silly, right?
So, in the context of Donna’s premise above… it was not easy being around this person. It wasn’t all that difficult either. It was just nothing. There was no energy there. Nothing at all. And I kept wondering constantly, “Is he boring? Or am I?” I certainly didn’t feel loved. I wasn’t even sure if he liked me.
Why didn’t I tell him that it wasn’t working out? It really wasn’t.
I don’t think there was anything disordered about him. I just think we weren’t a match but neither of us would say so.
I need to be willing to say “this isn’t working out for me” even when there is nothing new on the horizon. I need to have faith that someone will come along when I am ready.
That is probably my biggest struggle right now… having hope for that.
Anyway, thanks for the pep talk. I do appreaciate it!
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 2:09pm
Beverly says:
Dear AloaT, I remember when you mentioned him before that you felt out of sync with him. You said he acted bored. Well, my ex Narcissist wasnt like that at first, he lovebombed me then he was exactly like that - putting no energy into the relationship and being bored with anything to do with me, that is narcissistic behaviour. I know that the ending of any relationship can be uncomfortable, but look at it Aloa that you gave clear NO GO signals to someone who was not right for you. Sometimes, when we say NO to what is unsuitable, this opens the door for our YES. You know in your heart of hearts that you deserve at the very least, someone who is interested in you for you.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 2:53pm
blondie says:
im just wondering if anyone has ever felt like this?
after i dicovered another lie by my sociopath, it just felt like oh im used to this, same shit again. it doest even hurt anymore bc im so used to the lies and the cycle. i think im hurt under all this pain, but i cant find it. once i found out the truth it all made since. and all the lies finally added up in my head, like ever thing i suspected came to light. since i finally said i had enought of you lying to me and cheating on me and left him, i really havent cryed. i feel sad, but also feel like im just used to him hurting me like this.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 3:26pm
OxDrover says:
Blondie,
I have felt:
Anger
RAge
confusion
sadness
alone
lonely
betrayed
afraid
terrorized
depression’
resigned
acceptence
rebellion
vengeful
contrite
repentent
duped
dumb
stupid
embarassed
shameful
unloved
unloveable
and probably some more that I can’t even remember right now, but it sounds like you just feel numb—and maybe that’s part of it. I guess just “resigned” and “numb”—maybe those are the feelings—it really IS hard to describe feelings isn’t it?
But, maybe after a while, you do “get used to” being hurt, but I don’t think that makes it hurt any less.
For now, don’t worry about what you feel, just take care of yourself, you’ll get to “try out” all the other feelings in the world as you bounce around through the healing, but they are all toward getting better, getting back on your feet and LOVING YOURSELF AGAIN. (((HUGS))))
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 5:06pm
EMJ170ORD says:
Aloha T,
Another reason why this site is great. Everybody mentions something I can relate too, and it helps each other knowing that we aren’t alone. I thought it was strange that I always did all the talking. He would call - I’d tell about my day - there was silence on his part - it was like pulling teeth to find out anything from him - and then the conversation was over. I would get off the phone and wonder what just happened. Same thing when we were together. I thought how strange to be with someone who claims to love you, but never wants to touch you. I too felt like a manaquin. At the end I told him I felt like one of those women in a porno movie - just a body being used. Little did I know then, how right I really was. All the mysteries have been solved and it is a great feeling to know that I was NOT off my rocker, and yes something very strange, and wrong, was going on. It now has a name, Sociopath! I am still a healing work in progress. We will get through this!!
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 5:30pm
apt/mgr says:
I, too, felt like I was having a conversation with a window dummy. It was. Minus the window. The man I met who I truly believed was going to provide a real life for me and my children, turned out to be just what you describe. I wondered what is wrong with this picture? I would ask him about something, and all I’d get for my effort was a vague answer or just a shrug. This man paid so much attention to me at first that I knew it had to be real.
Then his mask kept slipping and I was avoiding facing the truth, because I was so afraid I was right. And I was. “To thine own self be true”. I realize now the reason he focused so intently on me at that time, is because I was so enamored by him and he ate that up, and spent the time away, figuring a way to get money out of me, which he did. There was no sex, but he knew I was attracted to him. When I told him I wanted my money back, he suggested we exchange sex for the money. I was floored. I’ve since found out that that is his modus operandi. I was just a chump he could use to play out his sick mind games, because I was so naive and vulnerable I didn’t see through. I would end up apologizing for something he did. Because we only saw each other as friends, I didn’t see the real him. I only saw him in one setting, but soon looked behind the scenes and found what I wished I had to begin with. I was spared the whole routine of going with him, marrying him, to only divorce him, like all the others. Boy I was a chump. But I lived and learned, and found out he’s the one with the problem. He has to live with himself. His looks are leaving, but I think with men like that, some women don’t care. He still has the gift of charm to manipulate.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 5:54pm
eyesopened says:
Apt/Mgr
What is it about charm that is so magical? I can’t put my finger on it and, indeed, it may be indefinable. I would just love to unlock that mystery.
Any guesses anybody?
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 5:59pm
apt/mgr says:
Look at some of the big stars. Hugh Hefner comes to mind. They grow old, still have money and charm, and the girls swarm around them. I wish I knew too. Is it their stature, voice, the way they dress? I don’t know. I know that it’s been harder to break away from a measly friendship with this knight-mare, than from my marriage, that lasted the most of my life, so far. The use their assets for all the wrong reasons and really don’t care if they get rejected, because they know there’s another around the corner just waiting for someone like him. They couldn’t care less if they were loved, because they know they can get that anywhere. They know how to make a woman fall in love, but they, themselves don’t need it. They just need the thrill of knowing another bit the dust.
What makes me sick inside, is that I was so weak and vulnerable. This man could never have even formed a friendship with me, had my husband wanted me. In my work, since ‘91, I’ve met hundreds of men looking for an apartment and he was the only one who turned my head. I want to rant and rave at God and say why me? Why couldn’t I have had someone who knew how to do life and didn’t play such stupid games. It’s like to them the only way to prevent boredom was to play mind games. Once the woman caught on, they grew bored and had to find their next victim. The older ones seek out the younger thinking they haven’t been around and learned the ways yet. I wish the word could get out. But these men have such a way about them, they could convince anyone they are sincere.
As bad as my marriage was, I think I could say this friendship is one thing I regret. I regret that I was so blind-sided and allowed him free reign with my feelings and money. I think that’s what frustrates me most days. I want to take it all back and redo and know, of course I can’t. There’s just that evil in me that would like to see him humbled somehow.
All in all, it just disappoints me there are so few real men that I’ve met. Maybe some are, but they just don’t appeal to me. I still have my standards and teeth are one of them! But life keeps on keeping on.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:13pm
eyesopened says:
Yes, I think teeth are good
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:18pm
alohatraveler says:
eyesopened,
The charm is… charming. Like Shirley Temple. You just can’t help but like her.
A friend once told me, “The way we feel about someone is directly related to the way they make us feel about ourselves.”
When someone is doing their charm act, they make you feel like you are the most delightful, interesting, adorable, sexy, blah blah blah, person that ever lived. Once they get you batting your eye lashes and believing it.. even if it is just for a moment, they don’t have to charm you anymore. Then… they pull the rug out from under you and you will do anything to feel that way… ABOUT YOURSELF… again.
That is why being with a Sociopath or any pathological partner of these sorts leads us back to ourselves. How they made us feel, points exactly at the sore spot in our being.
I know this and yet I STILL look for a man that will make me feel better about myself. This last man made me feel like a pile of crap every time we interacted because he seemed SO UNINTERESTED IN ME. I kept trying to be my sweet, interesting, kind hearted, blah blah self but no matter what… it was flat line city.
I don’t want to write a bunch about this man but he is not disordered. I am sure of this. And I know he felt confused about my questioning his motives and wondering out loud if I was being toyed with. I think that is why he called it quits. The problem for me was the silence.. the more silence the more I start filling in the gaps with crap. And my thoughts were running amuck. He said, “Whether I call you or don’t call you, I just can’t win.” If he didn’t call, I felt abandond and if he did call and sound bored out his mind, I felt rejected. But I continued to try and bounce off of nothing. We made a mistake. We should have just met for coffee once and admitted there was nothing there for either of us and left it at that.
But, I didn’t and he didn’t and so we dragged out the most boring “relationship” until we were both pondering saying something like.. let’s just pretend this never happened. As I said before, he said it before I did.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:11pm
alohatraveler says:
This was just more of my lesson until I get it….
I am nice , kind hearted, a good gal, fun, a “quality woman” and blah blah… even if everyone doesn’t think so.
Back to the salt mines for me… I still have work to do.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:13pm
eyesopened says:
Somehow, I think there must be something more intoxicating, more ethereal to charm than just making us feel special…sort of like fairy dust that they sprinkle on us. I wish I knew what the mysterious ingredients are.
There are lots of people who make me feel special and interesting, but the one who bewitched me, captivated …and captured….me.
All of a sudden, the Prince Charming of fairy tales, doesn’t seem so innocent.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:20pm
alohatraveler says:
I don’t think there is anything magical about it once you understand it.
The Bad Man used to be a Minister. When we would go to a religious event, he explained that there was a formula to getting people to come down to the alter… the alter call. Some people call it the holy spirit.. the Bad Man told me you learn it in school to be a Minister.
Think about it. It’s like an infomercial. Don’t they make us want that thing so bad?! No fairy dust involved.
That, of course, is just my opinion.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:43pm
OxDrover says:
Aloha, I have been reading through a book that’s kind of interesting.”Smart women, Foolish Choices, Finding the Right men and avoiding the worng ones” Dr. Cowan and Dr. Kinder,
It doesn’t specifically “name” psychopaths and Narcissists, but it does describe them, and how the SUCK US IN with their “plays” that are “by the book” on how to hook us, just like you said your Bad Man would suck in people in the audience with his “sales pitch” for Jesus.
All salesmen have ways to make us WANT the product they are selling. They play to our wants, needs, emotions, desires, etc. The Dale Carnigae course “How to Win Friends and Influence People” which is an OLD sales technique is a great tool to use to learn how to persuade people to do what YOU want them to—buy their product or climb into bed with them.
The book also talks about how we find the “bad boy” image more alluring because we get a “thrill” out of the WANTING and persuing love, more than the HAVING love. So the Ps play to this aspect of our own psyche and use it against us. They play the “you’re wonderful” card along with the “slightly distant card” and we are off chasing them like a Greyhound after the rabbit–then THEY CATCH US and the game changes!
There are so many aspects to our personalities, our lack of boundaries, our gullibility, our kindness and our caring natures, and factor in their predatory natures and it is just another case of PREDATOR and PREY. We are their natural prey and they are our natural predators unless we get lucky and just happen to miss them as we skip along in life.
Of course some of them are “slicker” at it than others, and some more ruthless than others, but the bottom line is that they are ALL predators, and because we are NOT predators, not killers, WE ARE PREY. True, we may fight back, a cow is a prey animal, but she may fight like hades when she is cornered, and sometime she may get lucky and gore or kick the predator and injure or kill him, but she will never be a predator, she will always be only on the DEFENSIVE to defend herself, her calf and her herd from the predator.
I won’t say that given the right circumstances I wouldn’t kill to protect myself, I am 99.9% sure I would, but I am NOT a predator any more than the cow is. I won’t go out stalking the Ps, I won’t seek them out to kill them any more than the cow would stalk the wolf. The rabbit isn’t capable of killing the fox or the wolf, or even the cat, it’s only defense is to run and hide from the predator. Some people aren’t capable of defending themselves, or wouldn’t defend themselves with deadly force even if they were cornered.
We have all been in a “fight” with the predators and we have been wounded to one degree or another, but we are healing, and one of the very best things about the encounters is that we will NEVER forget the lessons we have learned. We will be wary and cautious and more aware, we will not negate our own gut senses that there is a predator in the area, and we will disengage with them before they have a chance to snare us again. We are MUCH WISER NOW, and we know that we don’t ever want to be in the clutches of a predator again!
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 9:45pm
gennyrabbit says:
i love this blog. this is exactly what i was just asking to hear. thank you very much, donna.
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 3:17am
Free says:
Aloha,
This last experience with the guy who you have just stopped seeing, is probably meant to have happened. You have gained even more insight into yourself which even though hard and painful, is what we need to do to break through. When we are with the wrong person, we question ourselves. Am I too boring? Am I not bubbly enough? Am I not pretty enough? Am I not this? Am I not that? All red flags! That is your intuition telling you: ‘No way baby! He ain’t the man for me!’ When we are not quite ready, we question ourselves too.
When you find the right person to complement your life, there will be no awkward silences, you won’t doubt yourself and you will feel comfortable just being you, without concentrating hard on being you… because it will just come naturally.
He said, “Whether I call you or don’t call you, I just can’t win.”
I think the right guy will be patient with us and wait until we are ready. I think it is a mutual thing with the right guy. It takes time to trust another person, it doesn’t happen overnight and I believe that the right person who is a healthy individual gets that too.
Keep doing lovely things for yourself and remind yourself how wonderful you are… You are worthy of being loved.
xx
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 4:30am
apt/mgr says:
Dear OxDrover,
It’s funny you should mention the Dale Carnegie course. The ex-friend I’ve mentioned, wanted me to read those courses. He thought I was approaching life in a negative manner. I realize now that he uses other people’s ways to approach life and not something within him. I told him I’m a very positive person who’s been slapped with so much negative and I’ve spent the most of my life trying to turn a negative into a positive. He likes to think and will expound on his virtues of positiveness, when he’s the one who plays mind games, is rude, arrogant, obnoxious, curt, abrupt, etc. He thinks he’s right all the time. At one time he accused me of always wanting to be right. I said I’d just like to be right once.
I don’t know what all he learned from those courses, but I handed him back his books. If they taught me what they taught him, no thanks. I’ve always believed God is the purveyor of the positive and if I would follow his precepts for living, I could do the norm. That works for me, but not as far as relating to others. I’ve been handed a truck load of negative actions. I told this friend for every action there is a reaction and if he doesn’t like the way I react, then he needed to change his action. You don’t treat another person like a non-entity to get anywhere. But he is a classic manipulator and he knows all the moves. They worked on me for a spell, but suddenly the light dawned and I saw first hand what I suspected.
As sad as it is, we really do need to constantly be on the alert. There is someone out here who wants to rob us of our joy. I see a common thread of all who write here and that is a keen sense of humor. Proverbs talks of a merry heart as good medicine. Once we get past the initial hurt, to survive, I think we need to laugh in the face of this evil that pervaded our space. I see that here. Once the dust settled, we can see how we’ve been taken, and we turn it around and use it as an object lesson. I’ve been asked if I hate the ones who tried to break me. I said no way. I don’t hate them. I can hate what they did to me, but maybe they are the ones who are counted in the crowd when Christ asked God to forgive them since they didn’t know what they were doing. They still walk in darkness, doing the deeds of the dark. Someday, hopefully, they will be exposed and finally realize the extent of the damage they caused to lots of hearts. And then again, maybe not.
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 8:40am
OxDrover says:
Aloha,
Humans are gregarious (herd) animals. I have noticed that even with my cows, each one has a “favorite” friend, and prefers her own offspring, even her adult offspring, to others.
If a cow is deprived of her favorites or her offspring she will “become friends” with just ANY cow (as long as that cow is not abusive and they generally aren’t)
I notice with myself sometimes if I am feeling the need for human interaction, I will start down a list of preferred people, and if they are not available I may get down to the “bottom” of the list of people that are “Okay” but not my “preferred” company, just to be with another human.
I am needing that less and less, though, as I am becoming more comfortable in my OWN SKIN and my own company. I’m not as needy for “just any human”—and of course there are those Ps that I would rather be in solitary confinement for the rest of my life than even see their ugly faces. LOL Looking back at them now it is so difficult for me to remember why I CRAVED their company, felt I could’t live without it, that they FILLED my life–yea, with pain!
I look back at the cow, long gone, named Gina that was a dominant cow, larger than the others, and she was ABUSIVE with her dominance, which cows usually aren’t. She would take her long horns and painfully hook another cow just for the heck of it, just to hurt it for no “reason” that any one could see, it wasn’t about dominance for feed or space, she would go out of her way to hook another cow just because she couldl.
Eventually 3 of the other cows ganged up on her and whipped her to a fair-thee-well, I thought they might kill her, but after that she was the OUTCAST of the herd, having no friends to groom her, and the only other animal in the herd that would associate with her (except the bull of course and then only when she was in heat) were her own offspring. It was actually pitiful to see her play with her calf like a “friend”—to watch her lie out to the side of the herd when everyone else was contentedly lying in the shade chewing their cuds and doing whatever cows do when they congregate like that in contentment.
All but one of her calves was aggressive with humans, and I still have that beautiful sweet baby who is now a beautiful magnificant cow that is very social to other cows and to people as well.
I think the Ps will eventually do the same thing with their lives, they will abuse others until some day, some way, they lose it ALL and they are alone not only with no one to love them but no one that they can abuse either. How pitiful is a P without a victim! LOL They are LOST and don’t know what to do with themselves.
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 11:56am
Benzthere says:
Oxy, it’s instinct. And I gotta say, when you throw in the ability to reason that humans have, sometimes the animals have the advantage (pointing the finger at myself too). My dog didn’t even like him, I should have taken her cue.
They’ll find someone to feed off of, they’re just like buzzards.
Benz
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 12:58pm
chaos says:
Dear Donna, Thank you for sharing your story and the beautiful photo. I would like to express my appreciation for your great work, creating this site, educating the public, and giving us a hope for the future.
HoneyBearII, your story is so inspiring. My mother has been married to my narcissistic father for 40+ years, but she has no clue about this disorder. When I told her about it, she accused me of labeling my own father as a disordered person. I do not think she would admit it. I wish she had courage to leave my father at some point of her life.
When we had courage to face the reality and we are determined to heal and grow, a miracle happen, I think.
As for love, now I have a different kind of love. A puppy came to my place two months ago. Since then, I am in love with her. This is not a fake. She helped my recovery tremendously. I just did not have time to think about my ex p at all. She somehow liked to pee and poop (sorry!) on an expensive wool rug my ex p left in my place. I could not throw it away, because it was too nice. But she completely trashed it!! So it is gone now, out of my sight, thanks to my puppy!!
I have been having bad days lately because I realized that I now have some health problems due to emotional distress.
However, for the first time in my life, I feel content. I do not need anyone to make me happy.
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 4:57pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Chaos,
YOur puppy KNOWS! GOOD FOR HER! She knows instinctively where to put the stuff! Right on anything that belonged to HIM! Good dog, give her a bone for me!!! LOL
Yea, Benz, I think sometimes animals do have the advantage over our “superior” minds! LOL It is interesting to me though to see the generational interactions between the animals and their offspring-2-3-4 generations down the road and to see the “family traits” that are passed on from mother to baby. Even if the babies are half sibs (as they usually are since I only kept one bull) you can see the mother’s influence on the calf and when you go to halter break them, they are very much like their mother’s were at that age, some very gentle and some that will kick at you for what seems like “forever”–some you “kickk back” and some you just ignore the kick and pretend it didn’t happen.
When I moved back here after being gone for years and years, I could see a kid that Iknew I couldn’t possibly know, but I could tell by how he acted, and his facial features which local “family” he belonged to. The actions and face might not be the same as the last name because it was his mother’s family he resembled, but I could pick out the different “families” by the offspring even though I had been gone for 30 plus years and maybe I didn’t even know the parents, just the grandparents.
The families we called “trash” then are still pretty much the same today, drinking, drugging, beating their wives, stealing, etc. or “solid citizens”—the funny thing though is that many of the people you would EXPECT to be trash are not–they are poor, uneducated, not really bright, but they are the rock solid people that are GOOD people and some of the more well-to-do people are the ones that are still TRASH, and unfortunately there are those like my family that APPEAR on the surface to be “upstanding folks” and in actual fact, are anything BUT “upstanding.” They just MASK IT.
Most of the time in a community like this you can know who is who witout a score card, but there are those folks that are TOXIC like my mother, who reserve their venom for the SELECT FEW closest to them…deliberately hiding their fangs behind the benign face they show to the public.
I had no problem finally in acccepting that my P-son is a monster, just like my P-bio-father, but I bought the MASK as the person of my mother even though I had SEEN the fangs. Now I know that the FANGS are the REAL person and the benign “saintly woman” is the MASK. That was really hard to accept about one’s mother, more so than about one’s child even. Acknowledging just how twisted and dysfunctional my upbringing was (though I did have a wonderful step father) is almost like denying my entire life’s ideas of “truth” and starting over from scratch.
Yet, at the same time, my whole life I have somehow felt inside my gut that “something wasn’t right”—and then my mother would tell me that I had the wrong “truth” and I would try again to twist my own reality to fit hers, without a lot of success. Now that I am out of the FOG, though, I can SEE that I was “right all along” there was something very “rotten in Denmark.” (EnnLondon, I don’t know where that phrase came from either. LOL)
Now all I have to do is clean up the mess and move on. I’m getting there, but there are still a few emotional pot holes on the road. LOL
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 5:41pm
henry says:
OXY THAT IS A VERY GOOD POST. I have been living with and surrounded by predator’s my whole life. It took this latest bout with evil, to open my eye’s and become aware that they are what they are. They feed off of our soul’s because they don’t have one. They break your spirit, they turn off the bright light. They do this for a reason. They take and take and take and never give anything back, when you are broken down and of no use to even yourself, they flee…Yes I realize I am a target, but thanks to this website (thank you Donna) and me educating myself on personality disorder’s will save me from ever doing this again. I am finding my spirit, I am looking forward to tomorrow again.
Wednesday, 25 June 2008 @ 9:33pm
Beverly says:
Dear Henry, When we piece the PsNsSs in the context of our lives, and hold that up as a barometer against our other relationships, we realise where we were in the dark, so to speak. I realise how naieve I really was. I was telling a friend last night, about some of his childish antics, before I finished the sentence she gave the diagnosis ‘he was rubbing your nose in it and getting off on it’. True, but at the time I did not see that at all, because I dont play mind games. The one great thing the experience taught me, is how much I have been manipulated by other people in the most subtle ways. Like you, Henry, I am much more switched on these days. Thanks you for your words of support.
Thursday, 26 June 2008 @ 3:57am
Beverly says:
Dear OxyD. I have lived in lots of different places, and wealth and status do not guarantee the quality of the persona. I lived in a well to do area, where when people get angry, they do it so politely, usually throw the weight of their connections behind their threats. Im going off camping for a few days on ‘no mans land’ - and thank you so much OxyD for your support. (((hugs))) and God bless.
Thursday, 26 June 2008 @ 4:06am
JaneSmith says:
Oxy,
Not to sound like a literary snob, cause I’m not, but the quote..”Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”..is from Shakespeare’s Hamlet. Kathy, (rest in peace, love. We miss you so much) was constantly quoting Hamlet in her posts. Hamlet was dealing with some troubling situations in his life, as his stepfather murdered his beloved father and was now sleeping with his mother, the Queen. His stepfather was the classic manipulative, cunning, covetous psychopath and Hamlet was torn between whether to kill the man outright or to wait until he acquired evidence to oust him to the kingdom, hence…”to be or not to be”…
I’m a big time lover of Shakespeare. Not only are his beautiful plays and sonnets timeless and can be continually performed even to suit “modern” times, but his birthday is the day before mine!…haha. How cool is that!
Bev, sweets, I so agree with you about rich people. Yeah, I’m not going to generalize, but the one’s I’ve met had this annoying, irritating sense of entitlement that drove me bonkers! So true that money can’t by class, honor, dignity, ethics, and all the other admirable qualities that make us exceptional human beings.
Have a blast hangin in nature, celebrating your serenity, peace, and love for yourself. You deserve it, you lovely woman! ****hug****
Thursday, 26 June 2008 @ 2:09pm
Beverly says:
Dear JaneSmith. Well Ive packed up my car and will set off tomorrow morning. I will miss you JS, I will miss reading your posts and I will miss all the ‘gang’ here. When I read your posts JS, I have this ’sense’ that you have a noble and articulate way of expression. (((Hugs and Love)))
Thursday, 26 June 2008 @ 3:08pm
OxDrover says:
Dear JaneSmith,
Thank you for reminding me where that came from! I love Hamlet! It is a great play! But with my CRS (Can’t remember Chit!) I have trouble remembering quotes from the Bible, quotes from many other places too.
I even have word finding difficulties, and almost stutter if I am under the least bit of stress with a conversation. My psychiatrist says it is from the PTSD from when my husband was killed here at our airport in an accident, and that the stress of all the other “events” over the past 4 years on top of that has added to it. I got so worried I had my therapist administer an IQ test cause I felt like I was really not able to depend on my brain any more. I scored where I always score, actually 1 point higher than I’ve ever scored—so my brain is working, it just doesn’t seem to be hooked up to my mouth—DUH! Boy that is a true one! ha ha Or, in this case, to my fingers.
Thursday, 26 June 2008 @ 3:57pm
JaneSmith says:
Hey, Oxy, I forgot who said the phrase. I had to google the answer. It was a guard who saw the ghost of Hamlet’s father.
And I can be a right space cadet sometimes….haha. I’ll be chatting with someone, then deviate from my original thought, moving on to a newer, shinier thought, THEN ask the person..”umm..what was I talking about before?”. My mom’s the only one who can really understand my transient, mercurial speech as she does the same thing! I’m sure that we probably give others headaches trying to ascertain the twists and turns of our conversation.
Oh..and the stuttering? Ha! When I’m super angry that’s exactly what happens to me too! I’m like…”you….grrrr…just go away!” This is the time when I seriously need to distance myself from the offending party unless they wish to deal with the little tornado I become. Until I calm down I’m useless for a rational/logical discourse. All flailing arms and spitting like a cat…haha.
Bev,
You’re last post to me was so very thoughtful, so very kind a thing to say. Yes, I melted. Into a liquid puddle of gratitude. I sincerely treasure such high praise from a woman of your superb caliber, your phenomenal strength and perseverance, your loving and gentle heart. If you ever wish to visit the NorthWest US, you can stay at my pad as long as you’d like. Anytime. That’s a promise. **cheek smooch**
Thursday, 26 June 2008 @ 10:45pm
OxDrover says:
When I was studying the effects of stress when I was in college for my BS in nursing, I became very interested in this, and continued to read and learn more about the subject on my own. I became aware of the effects of stress in my life at various times under various circumstances—sometimes under my control, sometimes not.
Of course medical science has advanced a long way in the years since I first became aware of stress effects, so I have tried to keep up some with the advancements—someone said once though that “trying to learn and keep up with medical knowledge is like trying to drink from a fire hose, no matter how thirsty you are or how fast you swallow, most of it gets by you” and that is quite true.
After the trauma of my husband’s death, the effects of stress were more than I had ever EVER experienced. I couldn’t READ. I couldn’t write down a telephone number—It was so bad I had to write down numbers one number at a time, with each one told me separately, then I would write it, then the next number in the phone number.
Even 2 years later I could only do 5 or 6 forward and NONE backwards—this was a huge change, as a “parlor” trick I used to do was recite 100 numbers in a row read to me, and do them backwards, forwards or any combination there of, skipping numbers, or whatever was asked. I became so worried about my mental competency that I actually stressed myself more worrying!
I’ve always had a terrible time remembering names of people I knew a long time ago, My facial memory was perfect, but my name memory was terrible. Always was. My husband used to purposely and jokingly embarrass me when I would be talking to someone he knew I knew but knew I would NOT remember their name so he would approach and then say to me, “Oxy, introduce me to your friend.” After me threatening to cut off his toes if he ever did that to me again, knowing I didn’t know their name, he stopped his joking! ha ha but my lack of memory of names was the “family joke”–in fact once I forgot my mom’s name when I went to introduce her to someone whose name I DID remember.
But my total lack of recall –even episodes of amnesia for short periods of time–scared the heck out of me, but of course was the effects of the PTSD from the airplane crash. But yet, I expected to pull my husband out of that awful accident and keep my composure the same way I would have expected me to keep my composure if it had been a stranger that I was pulling out of a fiery crash.
My expectations of myself to “be logical” and to be “professional” and to be “Mr. Spock” and not have emotions, and for sure as heck NOT ADMIT IT IF I DID, even under the most traumatic of circumstances, I think made it all worse than it even had to be.
In the four years since my husband’s death, there have been further traumas, and then there was the X-BF-P episode and then the year long “P-experience” with my P-son and the Trojan Horse P trying to kill me, so all in all, though I still have some short-term and some longer-term memory problems, I am aware of these, more accepting of them being there, but at the same time, realizing that I am not A NUT CASE per se, and that I won’t let people use that memory deficit as a way to GASLIGHT ME. After I had mentioned that to my P-son in one of my letters to him, and told him how it bothered and concerned me, he used that “But mom, you just don’t remember such and such…” to gaslight me. He used it as “proof” to others that I had a BRAIN TUMOR…I’m soooo glad they let him attend medical school while he has been in prison, lo these many years! Talk about rehabilitation! LOL Reading that letter he wrote to my Mom and the ones he wrote to the Trojan Horse-P “Diagnosing” my BRAIN TUMOR as the ONLY possible explanation of why I had “suddenly turned on him” actually made me LAUGH OUT LOUD!
The Ps use our NORMAL stress-related deficits of good judgment and KEEP US STRESSED as a tactic in their MANIPULATION. We, on the other hand, may NOT be AWARE of our reactions being so “far out” because we ARE stressed. Knowing that you are stressed and reacting in a stressed way is not something that you can “self diagnose” easily UNDER STRESS. I KNEW I wasn’t “acting right” and my “memory” was poor, and YET I couldn’t DO the things I needed to do to GET AWAY from the very thing that was stressing me.
It was only in EXTREMIS of FEAR, when they pushed me to the point I did realize my VERY LIFE was in danger, that I actually did the REASONABLE thing and FLED. Even then it took several months for me to come to the conclusion that I NEEDED and MUST RUN or DIE.
I have always considered myself a “can do” person who can still function under trying conditions and do well, who is “tough” and doesn’t give up easily when confronted with obstacles, and those very qualities that make me a GREAT PERSON were the ones that were turned against me by their manipulations. My own expectations of “super human” strength and competency were part of my own down fall into the pits the Ps dug for me.
I see so much of myself in each of you, with your strengths and kindness which is twisted by the psychopaths to enable them to USE you more effectively, and for longer times. I could make a list of the good qualities I see in each of you that were TWISTED and molded into something to use AGAINST you.
This thread is SO RIGHT ON, because REAL LOVE is NOT PAINFUL. Looking back over my 40 years of friendship and 20 years of marriage to my husband–we had our differences in personality, ways of looking at some things, etc etc and we had some “lively debates” over these things, but I NEVER ONCE in all those 40 years thought for one moment that he didn’t have my best interests at heart, or that he was being deceptive, or mean. I KNEW HE LOVED ME. The highest compliment that I guess was ever paid to me was one of his employees who worked for him the last 3-4 years of his life said to me one time, “Do you have ANY IDEA how much that man loves you?” Considering that my husband was not one to bare his emotions to his employees or male friends, or even most female friends, I can sit here today and say totally and completely, that “Yes, I DID KNOW and DO KNOW how very much he loved me” because it was NEVER EVER PAINFUL, even in the midst of our most “lively debate” or when he, like most engineers, was being his most insensitive or obtuse, I still KNEW he loved me, and in the end even the most “lively of our debates” never came between us, we came to a consensus at some point. LOL
Friday, 27 June 2008 @ 9:06am
blondie says:
Help!!!
I want to go back soo bad to him. its killing me. im trying with ever ounce of my body to keep moving foward. this is so freaking hard. he knows exactly what to say to me, to keep me hook, i hate this shit. He sends me a message last night saying, i miss you here, the cats and i miss you here at night with us. GOOOOODDDDDD. I’m so sad today
I need to do something or talk to somebody before i make a bad choice. i just miss that feeling, i miss laying there next to him, but i know that it was never real. AHHHHHHH!!
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 7:36am
eyesopened says:
Hi blondie
Just don’t. It’s so hard, but just don’t. This is the part of the journey where you know better now and you’ve come to a fork in the road where one path leads back to him and the other to freedom, sanity and peace.
It’s a test of your strength. You know what you need to do - are you going to cave in to someone who will use and reject you again or are you going to protect yourself?
Save yourself.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 11:15am
alohatraveler says:
Hi Blondie,
We have all been there. You must go complete NO CONTACT for exactly the reasons you stated above:
“he knows exactly what to say to me, to keep me hook, i hate this shit. He sends me a message last night saying, i miss you here, the cats and i miss you here at night with us.”
How adorable… the cats miss you. I bet you love those cats. Don’t worry. The cats will be okay without you and so will he.
It has been close to three years since I left the Bad Man and it does get better.
I used to miss lying next to the Bad Man but what it means to me is not what it was. You know what I mean? At least in his sleep he wasn’t abusing and mentally torturing me. At night was when I could pretend everything was okay. But it wasn’t and it never would have been. I had enough evidence to know that was true.
These kinds of relationships lead to SELF DESTRUCTION.
Look at it this way… leaving this man behind is the only way you may ever make your dreams come true.
He is a fake.
Goo luck Blondie. Hang in there.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 11:22am
henry says:
Good Morning Gang, It is raining here in oklahoma today. I was reading the old post about OPTICAL ILLUSIONS; AUTOSTEREOGRAMS and SOCIOPATH’s. Blondie I dont know how to tell you to get that post but man it has helped me so much this morning. The most profound senctence was this ( This is the purpose of frequent pity-ploy’s. It is emotionally impossibe to simultaneously PITY yet suspect deceit. Your mind can only do one or the other.) Read that it will help you understand your confusion. What I want to know is do sociopath’s do this knowing what they are doing and planning it out or do they do it instinctively like an animal?
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 11:43am
henry says:
Eyes opened let’s go to the movie this afternoon, my time is 4:30 can you make that time frame? I am going with you not anyone else so check your times and let me know…..When I went out to feed the cat this morning, I called her Miss PUSS……..she is as home here…..
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 11:48am
henry says:
she is (at) home here
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 11:49am
catherinejane3 says:
The sadness and anxiousness is maddening. Counteract his seductiveness. Pray. Journal. Write a letter to him and never send. Write a letter to self. Write a letter to friend, sister about you and him, never send. Column what love is/ what love isn’t. Column what you want/don’t want in a relationship. Read love fraud entries–pay attention to NO CONTACT advice of entries. Read books, “Women Who Love Too Much”, “The Verbal Abuser”, “From Panic to Power” cry. Read spiritual books, “The 2nd Half of Life”, “Path to the Heart”, The Bible. Physically: get on your knees–speak to yourself/God kindly and imploringly, ask questions, cry out the questions. Listen carefully to the answers, you will hear them. They could be muddled w/ what you want to hear…listen & to the “…wisdom to know the difference”. Go for a walk, go to a class, a group, exercise. Drink water for cleansing & it does help “clear” the mind & body. Stay away from coffee, even though going for a latte is a good diversion–have something else instead, clear & cool (as you want your body & mind to feel. Align. Your sexual energies can entrap, as it sounds from your comment. They are strong, yet deceiving, short-lived, and further emesh you in a negative energy bind. The feelings of “laying next to him” are so dear, so filling of our need not to be lonely, alone, unwanted. My heart actually aches when I write these words. Detach. Pray. Don’t give your energy to your own lust. I found this the hardest as I’m so sexual–I thought of myself as professional, creative, healing, strong –not instead of sexual but in addition [& at this time, more important than]. These temptations could be your hardest struggle. Don’t resist, go THROUGH the struggle, your integrity, character, and spirituality will be stronger and blessed. I found myself often prostrate on the floor–it seemed to buy me some time, moments where I could stay on my path of NC and the right choice. Well, I’ll just write him an e-mail explaining my love for him, or no, I’ll text him something short & sweet, no, I’ll visit him, no, I’ll text him, what about: “Doesn’t commitment trump crisis?”, no, how about, “I’ll always love you”, no, let’s see, how about, “Love you still.” NO, DON’T! Give him the space & time. NO–give yourself the space and the time to sort, to think, to love yourself, to be yourself. Although, I hate reading about loving oneself; I am so imperfect. If you’re able to divert your attention to levity channels, do–I was never successful at this but it might work for you. For example, anything that can make you laugh–a movie, a funny book, a sit-com, etc. Remember love is spelled l-o-v-e not s-e-x. “Never real” doesn’t feel good as you’re experiencing, do you want to feel that way? A resounding “NO!” Should you feel that way? You deserve better, blondie. I am, truly praying & thinking about you. Be strong, be true to your TRUE feelings. Best of…everything and what works for you. You can be with yourself today and reap the comforts your struggle will uphold. To thine own self be true.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 11:57am
eyesopened says:
Henry
Great…I can go..and it’ll be close to that time. I’m thinking of getting a popcorn and coke. I’ll be thinking about you.
I liked your suggestion to Blondie above. It was so helpful because our feelings can cloud our thoughts and separating pity from suspicion.
It reminds me of a concept that Apt/Mgr or Bev once synthesized so clearly for me: “Never feel sorry for a man.” Once you “get” that, you keep your balance.
Henry - thanks for the update on Miss Puss. I hope she keeps that name…it’s sweet. See ya at the movies! Glad we’re going.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 12:10pm
henry says:
ok it’s a date, i like lot’s of butter on my popcorn!!!!
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 12:19pm
OxDrover says:
Now I’ve heard of everything, a cyber DATE! LOL you guys are tooo much! LOL Great, actually!
Dear Blondie,
NO CONTACT—it is the only way. It is like they KNOW how to lure you in and if you allow them near they will play on your heart strings, but their only intentions are EVIL and CONTROL. YOU KNOW that, you CAN RESIST THAT–take back your power, don’t listen to his Siren Song. BE STRONG, just for ONE day. Hugs and prayers for your strength.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 12:51pm
lesley says:
Blondie,
I hear you. Two days ago, eight months after I found out my S was living with a woman and had been for years, eight months after he denied it to my face then dropped off the face of the earth, I just got a long email from him, saying just about everything I’d longed to hear. I’m the most wonderful, beautiful woman he’s ever met and the time he spent with me was the happiest in his life, etc. etc. It’s tearing me up, but someone would have to get a gun and shoot me in the head before I’d answer him. Because that’d be what I’d be doing to myself if I did. A little sweet talk doesn’t erase the nastiness of what he’s done. Talk is cheap and so is texting.
You know what’ll help you get through? Get ahold of that old Gloria Gaynor song “I Will Survive” and play it about 250 times:
>
Hang in there. You’ll be victorious and happy and loved down the line, and so will I.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 4:40pm
newworld view says:
good for you lesley…i wish i had done that…but from now on i will
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 5:55pm
Free says:
Blondie, those words he is saying to you are a trap. To see if he has still got you in there. I completely agree with Lesley with the “I will survive” song, play it a million times… I did… it got me through… yell it out, scream it out, it’s great when it’s in the car.
Love yourself completely, go do something for yourself that you would want someone to do for you if you are in a relationship… do it for you.
The cats miss you…. that is manipulation 101. Stay strong… stay focused. Think about it this way…. do you really want to lay next to the enemy and all that it entails?
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 6:41pm
blondie says:
thank you everyone for all the support. its what i needed. to here everyone stories, makes me feel like im not so alone. everyday is so hard. to think there are such horrible people in the world just make me sick. just keep me in your prayers, so i can make it out of it this time!
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 8:01pm
lesley says:
I’ll pray for you, Blondie.
Saturday, 28 June 2008 @ 8:33pm
Heather says:
I am so taken aback and finally so clear on what I was dealing with for 7 years. Blondie..oddly enough, so am I- and I almost wonder if you and I know the same person and not each other…maybe I just identify far too entirely with your emotional upheaval and your story that has stuck out in my mind since the first second I layed eyes on it. IT IS IDENTICAL. I’m sure in fact by reading, the other monstrosity of complete deceit you don’t include..I can feel because it leads my mind to memories of countless pain I couldn’t list after many many years…including marriage, unpaid loans, living off of me, babies I dont have I never got to mourn(it was ALL about him), your the most beautiful woman in the world/your ugly, emotional, manipulative abuse, verbal abuse, physical(never admits to it), empty promises, taking my money, leaving me for dead, begging and pleading it will never happen again and laughing in my face when asked about various suspicious women(never admitted to that either…he knew that was all I needed to know to leave-mind games or not) lying,dissapearing entirely, throwing me away, not paying back student loans my retired grandparents co-signed for, being precious and thankful to being a scary tyrant from hell, controlling, smear campaigns around town to make me look crazy, did I mention crocodile tears?????!!!!!!!! The list goes on. Derek Anderson is a complete monster and sheer evil at its sickest. I truly loved this man and feel so wrong for thinking it was ever real, especially knowing now that it never was. What did I love? A ficticious shell of inhumane abilities that were inconceivable to me or any other normally functioning human being in the free world. I’ve got a lot of healing to do. I virtually MUST start over in every aspect of my life….My best friend for 12 years was his sister and biggest enabler..she sold me out when I gave an incling of information on my anxiety ridden and detached behavior and refused to believe it calling me a liar and giving him fuel to further abuse me. I was hoping for support and clarity considering he used to beat her black and blue. I SO SO SO much want to expose this person for all of the evil that he is and my years of (though I sometimes spoke of it) virtual, controlled, depressed, hopeful, silence!!!! It is enraging and I cannot stop crying as he goes on his merry way as though I never existed…except he deserves an oscar when he needs sympathy-turns those tears right on. I should’ve known. Though I’m trying to believe for myself, none of us are stupid, like we’ve been made to feel. These people are 100% defective, I know. I pray constantly that GOD will release me from the warzone in my head and my completely shattered heart so that I can do something I have yet to have been able to do in my 29 years of life….FOCUS ON ME, instead being expected to “fix” a sociopathic, lying, sick, pig, bastard that pretends to be oblivious to my crying after he pacifies me with promises and immediately YANKS VIOLENTLY the calm from within me. They enjoy your complete genuine anguish. It astounds me the ability they have to play games so violently with everything that you are like a suck-u-take-ubus from the depths of hell..
using your prayer and desperation and spirituality to make more promises as though they even posses the ability to live that life in any honorable way in which it was intended….they use counceling and your last resort of therapy to further frame you and deplete any resource of self worth you may have. I must say after that degree of beatdown of every fundamental element of humanity, I was completely suicidal…til I realized he’d rather see me dead than happy.
Wednesday, 2 July 2008 @ 8:45pm
blondie says:
heather
I’m here for you. i feel your pain.anytime you want to talk im here. everything they do is about THEM. they only do things if they get something out of it. its kinda sad. i know its hard for you but you have to focus on you. thats what im trying to do. im doing this all alone. i as well like you have to rebuild my life, he was my whole life, and now i have nothing. it hurts to know i dont have anyone to cry to, or talk to about what is happening in my life. i dont really have a support system.
i will keep you in my prays, take it one day at a time.
Wednesday, 2 July 2008 @ 9:27pm
Heather says:
Thank you blondie….I based my entire life around this person too and have even tried to leave on a number of occasions to “start over” and literally could not find the strength I needed when my entire world and love was obliterated…it was so easy for him to be back in my life making empty easy promises with seemingly so much conviction. AND…the guilt, oh the guilt that I have felt was the most stammering prevention that in my mind, I could do everything I possibly could to “make this work.”
It has taken me sooo long to admit or even be able to wrap my mind around him particularly, having no consience…I know other people may not but I DID NOT want to admit the man I loved more than anything was one of them-even enjoying my pain after I had been served my “dose” of hatred and betrayal…leaving me crying and accusing ME of being cruel when all I had to do was point out that what he had done or said was so hurtful.
Everything was a projection…anything he ever did or was-he would accuse me of.. I had lost my sense of self thinking I was the bad person that “made” him treat me like garbage. I believe its what is called the mindf*ck(for like of a more perfect word)
Admittedly, it takes a lot to get me pissed but when I am, its less than what someone defending their sick game could even tolerate to hear. Betrayal and cruelty to me is inarguable for excuses and the fury inside of me that would build while having to listen to why ALL of his actions were My fault for being who I am was the most exhausting, defeating, horrifictly hurtful experience of my life. I guess I kept thinking that if I explained it to him he would recognize how selfishly twisted he is and not want to hurt me anymore. NOPE.
I put up a hardcore, determined fight to save a relationship that only mattered to me. Now I have nothing and had to completely remove myself from any of the people that I have considered “friends” my whole life so far. I am taking this one day at a time and all the while being aware that the vunerability I try to hide from people I dont know could be a dead give away to another sociopath. I am pretty petrified to trust anyone after this and the fact that I will eventually have new friends makes that even scarier.
There are so many things going on in my mind and in my heart that I just feel completely physically raw.
I guess we are all here to be each others support systems because before I found this site and all the other links to help me heal and solidify what I knew in my heart was true by seeing EVERY sign written and every story similar….I really truly thought I was going to lose my mind!!!!
ONE DAY!!!! They are going to die, we all are and maybe their hell will be sitting in front of a television screen feeling like their victims did and watching every single second of life and the hell and anguish and lies and deception they put us through crawl by, for all of eternity they must finally feel all the pain they caused and watch themselves do it, while they physically and emotionally feel our hearts break while we STILL bothered to love them…. over and over and over.
Thursday, 10 July 2008 @ 1:49pm
blondie says:
heather
I swear on my life we were dating the same man! oh geez! your story is the same as mind its kinda creepy. i have had to let go of friends that i thought i had, they were mostly his friends, but i can not have any contact with anyone that is connected to him. i always felt like i was being mindF***. everything is turned around on me, like he never did any of those hurtful things. like well “im sorry you feel that way” what the hell is that. they just dont care how you feel. it was also one of those guys who i never felt i knew what he was up to or doing. like he life was always hidden. like if he said oh iam going to the game with so and so or iam going out with so and so, and i never believe it, and he would say do u want me to call you, and prove to you. then he would call from the bathroom or away from who his was with. it disgust me how freaking serective they are. they dont even know how to build trust they dont get it, its like banging your head againest a wall. i give up
take care hun!
Thursday, 10 July 2008 @ 2:20pm
Beverly says:
Dear Heather, I feel for you and remember those raw raw feelings of betrayal and rage and that feeling of losing your mind.
I kept telling his sister, ‘I dont know what he is doing, but he is making me crazy, and I have never felt crazy in a relationship like that before. She basically told me that I was not clever enough with men, and that I should suggest things by reverse!!
Thankfully I only went out with the Narcissist for a year, but in that year, I was fast tracked through all his acting out behaviour. He left me so physically and mentally depleted during the menopause, I swear I contracted cancer because I was so low. However, what really resonated with me, when you said, they punish you for speaking up. I had plenty of that. As soon as I brought something up, or questionned what he was doing (or not), not in an angry way, but more in a concerned way, he would either walk out, and would punish me some while later, when getting me back with him (I didnt realise that is what he was doing - I thought he wanted to be with me, but he was punishing me)
Thursday, 10 July 2008 @ 2:47pm
OxDrover says:
Blondie and Heather, they may not be the SAME guy, but they use the same “play book” for their moves–I think it was written by SATAN!
If you use football as a concept, they know just how to block us, tackle us, and hit us from behind when we aren’t looking.
After a while though, when we get out of the FOG we can see the PATTERNS in the plays and almost predict which will come next.
Our only DEFENSE is to get out of the game, get off the field, and not look back. There isn’t any way to “win” as long as we stay on the field with them. Our wounds will heal and we will find that life is so much better when we aren’t trying to “teach a pig to sing” (a psychopath to learn about love) all it does is frustrate us and piss off the pig! LOL Hang in there, I can hear the strength growing in your posts!!! You are on your way!
Thursday, 10 July 2008 @ 4:56pm
uksurvivor says:
Hi
I’m hoping there’s someone out there to talk to right now.
It’s Sunday evening and I’m sitting alone in my house again for the millionth time. Well, not quite alone, my little boy is with me, he’s watching the TV.
I am in my mid forties now and have never had a good, loving, supportive relationship. My 1st ex husband is not a S but neither is he Mr Wonderful. He’s selfish, tight fisted and a hopeless father. Two years after we split up, I met the S, married him and had a son with him. He did untold damage to me which I wont go into now, but it’s all the usual stuff so you know what I mean.
Last year, when I finally managed to get the S off my back, I started dating again but I just ended up getting involved with the same sort of men as before. I know why I do it. It’s due to a lack of self esteem which came about due to my upbringing. So, I stopped dating and went to see a hypno/psychotherapist who worked with my unconscious mind to try to rid me of the self esteem issues so that I wouldn’t keep attracting low life men.
He did some good work and I hope that it was enough to mean that I wont get sucked in again.
But.
I have deliberately kept away from men for quite a long time now because I didnt want to end up in yet another bad relationship and now I find myself feeling desperately lonely. I went out with some new friends last night. All of them are in relationships but werent with their partners. We wnt to a restaurant and then a disco. All around us were couples, couples, couples. I watched people kissing, holding hands, cuddling etc and I just wanted to cry.
I so very much want to have someone loving to share my life but I know that, the way I feel at the moment I am very vulnerable to being swept off my feet by the 1st moron that comes along. So, to save myself from that, I stay in and don’t let myself be chatted up. But by staying in, I become more lonely.
I feel that I am stuck in a vicious circle and I have no idea how to change this.
Sunday, 13 July 2008 @ 2:24pm
apt/mgr says:
Dear uksurvivor,
I hear me in your words. Battling the desires of the heart is sometimes a life long battle. Many years ago, I set my heart on being the best wife and mother anyone could be. I wanted us to be the difference. We were going to show others how to do it.
I lost. So to speak. I realize now that I set myself up for a major fall, as I took everyone’s words and claimed them as my own, and built my dreams on them. They didn’t mean what they said, mostly my husband. He didn’t have me in his future. My children followed their hearts.
We used to talk of how it would be when they became adults and were married. We would talk of coming together for the holidays and making holidays of other days. I’d envision my meeting them for lunches to catch up. My life is so far from that ideal.
They all moved away. All in the same year. My husband retired to do what he wanted to do for others. My children followed their hearts and dreams, and I was left alone, with piles of bills and vulnerable to any man who came along. I was left feeling like the most unlovable, most ugly, middle aged heart broken, spirit broken woman ever. There was no one who cared about my wants, needs and desires. I was a mess. Wanting and needing someone’s touch. I needed to be affirmed and accepted.
I met a man who I thought had my well being as his intent. Because of being blinded by my despair, I almost fell. I lost money and almost lost my sexuality to this man. It was through that terrible emotional uproar, I found myself. I found that I needed this time alone to find out who I really am. I’ve learned if I can’t be alone with me, how could I expect someone to want to be with me. I finally like me and don’t mind being alone. I miss my children and I miss my dreams, but I’m learning to accept my position in life.
I still would love to have someone to share life with and to have someone across the table from me who wants to be there. I don’t want someone who will just tolerate me. But sometimes rather than spending time looking for someone, maybe you could try and find someone to do something for. A shut in who would love your company. Maybe volunteer at a hospital or nursing homes, and minister to someone who has no way of getting out and has no family who cares. It was through helping others, I found out that I could do this. It led me further into independence. If someone should come along who really strikes my fancy, I’m open to it, but if it doesn’t, I still have to exist. I’ve had to learn to not lean on other people.
I try to lean on God’s understanding and finding purpose in my living. I felt all purpose left when my children left. That was such a dark time and I feel for so many who are left in the dark. It helps to find out we aren’t alone, even though there is no one tangible to touch.
I, too, wanted the physical. But that, too, doesn’t last forever. I had to find my depth. I’m not totally there, but should I never have another who would want me, I want me. I have the valleys, but I keep striking out for the mountain again. I still have some jaded ideas, like as long as I stay in the valley, I don’t have far to fall. I’m enough of a realist to know that I can’t be bouncing off the walls happy all the time. I find the things that bring me happy! I wish that for you,too. Try not to lower your standards and just settle. Be the very best you, you can be. You could try a new hair do. Maybe change your taste in clothes. Develop new tastes. There really is life without a man. I’ve actually had other married women telling me I’m so lucky. They aren’t happy in their marriages and kind of envy my freedom. There’s something to be said about that.
You could think of what makes you, you. What do you like to do, by yourself. What gives you satisfaction, sans men? I’ve found that being needy, I leave myself open to being used. I won’t ever let that happen again. I would wish for all who are needy, to not look to a man to satisfy that neediness. They take it and run with it. Seek the help of another. And through that neediness you can find the best. YOU.
Sunday, 13 July 2008 @ 2:56pm
OxDrover says:
Dear UK survivor,
Even though I lost my husband through an aircraft crash, I too felt lonely and alone, unloveable, etc etc. and all around me it seemed that everyone had this great couples relationship and I was ALONE. Soooo along comes this P and sweeps me off my feet, I am dancing on air, happier than I have ever been, until I started to see after about 4 months that he was not prince charming, the verbal abuse and the lies etc. started and I was devestated. Took me another 4 months of hell to finally get the courage to kick him to the curb. Then I was REALLY lonely, and my son who lives with me was gone off working for 8 mnths and here I was soooo alone. I realized too, that for the first time in 40+ yrs I had never lived alone. I’d always had kids, or my husband or some combination sharing my habitat.
My son is gone for the summer working off, and I am alone now, but NOT lonely. I have finally come to the healing stage where I depend on ME for my happiness and my entertainment. I have friends and we go out some, talk on the phone, e mail each other, etc. so I am not without human companionship but even if I am Alone, I am not lonely.
I would love to find another partner, but you know, I may not. There are not that many “free” men in my age range that I could connect with and I sure don’t want a loser or a P. So I know and accept that the “pickings are slim” but I won’t settle for less than the best. I miss the heck out of my husband and tomorrow will be the 4th annivarsery of his death. It’s been a bit of a difficult week, but I’m managing to cope pretty well, but I don’t feel despondent any longer that I may very well be alone for the rest of my life as far as partners are concerned. It’s okay.
I agree with Apt/Mgr that you make some new friends, get out and do some volunteer work, take a class in some art form (I took pottery classes and it was great!) I get my hugs from my sons and my friends. I realize that human touch is important to us as a species and I make sure I get that, just not from a partner now. I used to HATE to sleep alone, now I have a little dog that sleeps with me, and belive it or not, it is very comforting to have him there, even though I SWORE that I would never have another dog in the house much less let one sleep with me. LOL And sure, he’s a pest sometimes, and I have to change the sheets more often and vacuum up the short little hairs, but I think it is worth it for just feeling another living being with me when I go to sleep at night.
Finding positive ways to meet our human needs, from companionship, to love, to touch, without a partner per se is something we have to THINK about, but when you are feeling “needy” and “lonely” find a positive way to fill that need. I have found if I FOCUS on being needy and don’t do anything to fill that need, I just feel more needy and more alone. But by focusing on FILLING that need with something positive and enjoying that positive interaction with others, the needyness subsides.
Sunday, 13 July 2008 @ 3:17pm
apt/mgr says:
I’ve found too, that neediness is as much a state of mind than anything thing else and it will pass. I’ve found when I get that needy feeling, if I do something to take my mind off that neediness, it passes. That tells me that I’m really not needy, but I was having a needy moment. I love the touches, hugs, etc., but rational thinking says that you can’t hold that pose forever. A hug from someone gives a momentary good feeling, but it won’t last forever so we have to do something when we don’t have those touches.
I think too, like Oxy, just having something living around is good. Even a plant. It’s something living and we can watch it grow. It’s all about our emotions and processing these pesky feelings. We look to someone to satisfy that need that we should be able to fill. I think we ask too much of others to fill us. They can’t be there 24/7 and if we want that, we might as well go to a nursing home and pay for it!! I’ve learned to not rely on others to satisfy my wants, needs and desires. If we can’t find a common ground, it’s not written in stone that I have to defer my longings in preference of another and they shouldn’t for me either.
We are all individuals with differing tastes. Yes, I’d love to share life with someone, but like Oxy says, when you get to be our age, pickings are very slim. They are either taken, or so well used there’s not much left. I still have standards. I don’t want to settle and might end up with someone needier than I. So I keep looking for my niche in life because I’ve been left with that choice. I didn’t think I had one before. I am allowed to think for myself. I tried it someone else’s way and I ended up being the forgotten one. Because I was too needy.
Sunday, 13 July 2008 @ 4:12pm
uksurvivor says:
Thank you both for your kind words and suggestions.
I know that having another person in my life is not the answer to finding happiness. I know that I need to make me happy. I know that the reason I am unhappy right now has nothing to do with the fact that I dont have a man by my side, it just feels like that’s the problem. Even though I know these things, it still doesnt make the feeling of loneliness any less real.
I wrote to you tonight because I needed to hear the things that you have said to me. Even though I know these things already, I needed to hear someone else say them. So thank you for that. I was feeling so very, very alone and I just needed someone to talk to.
Lo and behold, as I was typing to you, my eldest Son came online. He’s almost 20 and has been living in Japan for 18 months. He’s currently in the UK with his Japanese fiancee for 1 year so that she can improve her English.
We talked for a long time. He knows how I feel and he knows how difficult things are here for me (I live in Spain). He wants me and my youngest son to move to Japan next year when he goes back. At first, I dismissed it out of hand. It seemed like an impossibility. But the more we talked, the less ridiculous it sounded. I dont know how feasible it would be, we have to do some research, but at least now I have something to focus on which will take my mind away from wishing I had ’someone’. I hadn’t heard from my son for several days, so for him to contact me at this time was really fortuitous. Even if this idea comes to nothing, talking to him tonight has made a world of difference. He has made me feel very loved and that was exactly wh