10 tactics for child custody battles with sociopaths
PDF Last week Dr. Liane Leedom wrote about the tragic case Dr. Amy Castillo, whose children were murdered by their psychopathic father after several judges issued rulings that failed to protect them. I hope this terrible and extreme case will be a wake-up call for family courts.
Lovefraud frequently receives e-mail from men and women involved in child custody disputes with sociopaths, who hopefully, are not murderers. Here is one of them:
I am involved in a custody case with a sociopath, however, my case is being fought in Europe where I recently relocated to (I am American, he is European). After being the sole caregiver of my children for five years, I had no choice but to leave them with their father and return to the States. When we separated he took their passports and left the country for a year. It was NOT possible to obtain new passports for children without BOTH parents’ signatures.
By the end of that year my financial situation was desperate and I had no choice. I came back to the States, got myself back on my feet and recently I started my own company as a Virtual Assistant, allowing me to work anywhere in the world. While in the States I came back to Europe every six to eight weeks to visit my children. Well one month ago, I relocated back to Europe to live and continue my fight for custody of my children.
The court case had already been ongoing since January and in typical sociopath style he has lied and forged documents. Even so, my ex was recently given sole custody (temporarily while custody is decided) and that I must pay him 900 euros (around $1,300 USD a month!). As if that could not be bad enough, he sends me on a regular basis (the most recent being today) faxes full of lies and accusations that he then turns around and uses as evidence in his court case!!! Furthermore, I do NOT have 900 euros a month to give him. I just relocated and started my own business and this is a real slap in the face with all of the financial damage he has done to me as well as my credit in the U.S.
I have fired my attorneys and hired the best Custody/Family attorney where I live. He has been in practice for 30 years and not lost a case! Also he is known to be a very strong and tough attorney. I wish I would have had him in the beginning. So with this I feel confidence.
The reason I am writing is because although I have a very positive outlook and feel that I am a strong person, as I know that most of you can agree, it is very difficult dealing with a sociopath. When I receive these horrible faxes my stomach just drops and it can make me feel very anxious for hours after. So now I have stopped reading them at all. I do not know what I am looking for by sending this email. I think I just need the support of knowing there are others out there going through the same things as me and that this is manageable and that I will make it through. I would greatly appreciate hearing what others have done in a situation like this. Thank you.
Like most parents fighting a custody battle with a sociopath, this woman faces a difficult times. Below are some general suggestions about child custody and sociopaths.
Get him or her to walk away
If your ex is a sociopath, at best, he or she will be a lousy parent. At worst, he or she will intentionally try to damage your children. Therefore, if at all possible, it may be best to cut the sociopath out of your children’s lives.
You may want to consider offering the sociopath an incentive to walk away. Tell the sociopath to give up parental rights, and he or she won’t have to pay any child support. You may feel that you need the child support payments, but chances are that you’ll never get the money, or it will always be a struggle to get it. The money isn’t worth having the predator in your family’s life. Figure out a way to support your children without it.
Sometimes this works—there are sociopaths who care more about money than kids. But many times it doesn’t, because the sociopath considers children to be possessions. Or, the sociopath just wants to win the battle with you, and destroy you in the process. In those cases, you’ll end up in court.
Tactics in custody battles
I am forever grateful that I never had children with my sociopathic ex-husband. I avoided the most tragic of circumstances involving these predators—a child custody battle. Therefore, the suggestions I make below come from my research and what Lovefraud readers have told me.
If you’re fighting a custody battle with a sociopath, here are some tactics to follow:
1. Document, document, document.
Keep a journal of everything that happens. Often, the craziness is so intense that you don’t want to remember what happens. Your journal will be important when you need to tell a cohesive story of what has been going on with the sociopath, especially if you need to tell it long after events have transpired. Save every scrap of paper, every e-mail, every fax, every receipt. Develop a way of organizing the information, whether chronological, or by topic. Keep copies in a safe place.
2. Have witnesses
It is best not to deal with the sociopath alone; every interaction then becomes he said/she said. Have a trusted friend or relative present during child exchanges or other interactions as much as you can. You may even want to consider tape recording and videotaping some of what goes on.
3. Get your own information
Do not allow the sociopathic parent to control information about your children. Make sure you get information directly from schools, doctors and others.
4. Hire an aggressive, competent attorney
Child custody cases with sociopaths are not normal cases. The sociopath will not play by the rules. Your attorney must understand this. The sociopath will lie in court, although his or her performance will appear heartfelt, like he or she is “just concerned with the welfare of the children.” The sociopath will make outrageous accusations. The sociopath is also likely to retain an attorney who is also sociopathic. Therefore, your attorney must be up for the challenge.
5. Do not allow lies to become part of the court record
Sociopaths lie. Sociopaths lie convincingly. You cannot allow unchallenged lies to become part of the court records. Once they are, they take on the aura of truth, and put you in a very bad position. Some lies, like accusations of child abuse, may haunt you forever.
6. Be cautious in stating that your ex is, in fact, a sociopath
Unfortunately, many judges really do not understand what this means to the welfare of a child. Like the general public, many judges equate “sociopath” with “serial killer,” and may consequently believe that you are overreacting. So it may not be in your best interest to prove that he or she is a sociopath. Focus on proving the behavior.
7. Stay calm in court
You must present a calm, professional image when you go to court, even as the sociopath lies. Do not allow the sociopath to make you emotional. The sociopath will accuse you of being unstable, and you will prove it by your behavior in court. Keep your emotions in check, at least in front of the judge.
8. Make sure court orders are explicit
Insist on detailed court orders. The order should not say, “parent has visitation every other weekend.” It should specify exactly which weekends, starting at what times, returning at what times, who is responsible for transporting children, who is responsible for bathing and feeding them—everything must be spelled out in detail. If there is any ambiguity, the sociopath will exploit it.
9. Make the sociopath abide by court orders
If the sociopath fails to honor the orders, do not cut him or her any slack. Record any violation. Call the police if necessary. Continue to document everything that happens, because you may need to go to court again. If you ever decide that you need to cut the sociopath out of the child’s life, you’ll need evidence to do it.
10. Take care of yourself
You will need all your resources to deal with the sociopath. Therefore, make healthy decisions in your own life. Eat right, avoid drugs and alcohol, get enough sleep, exercise and develop a support network. In order to care for your children, you must care for yourself.
Post your suggestions
I previously reviewed the book, Win Your Child Custody War, on the Lovefraud Blog. This book is full of information that may help you, from how to gather documentation to how to hire an attorney and private investigator.
If Lovefraud readers have any more suggestions that may be helpful to others involved in custody battles with sociopaths, please post it in comments below.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
ErinBrock says:
Since I just ‘spewed’ the advice out, randomly picking my brain……I will clean it up, add to it and submit it in article form when I have a moment to spend on it.
I’m glad you have found it helpful…..and I agree….I wish I had a ‘shortcut’ of advice that I didin’t have to research every inch myself during my divorce.
I don’t know ‘what’ guided me……but geeze….some good Karma and timing of decisions, documentation presentation and/or keeping things close to the hip and things I chose to do/when/how/where were KEY for me.
…..we can survive!!!
(Report abusive comment)
aussiegirl says:
I’m with you on that EB:
Once we have figured out what we’re dealing with and learned to anticipate their potential next moves/scams, it’s like a quiet wisdom that just descends and settles all around us. Like snowflakes softly falling on our shoulders- all sparkly and pure and clean and white. At least, that’s how is for me. I have no idea where I get half the things I come up with these days – it’s just there, inside of me and it floats naturally to the surface.
Depending on what your spiritual bent is, there would be all kinds of ways that various individuals would explain this phenomenom.
For me, it felt like my guardian angel was gently showing me where to look and turning my head in the direction I should be listening and whispering “shhhhh” at me when I was being busy too loud or too busy.
Hope that all makes sense to someone out there
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
That’s great news EB. So many newbies come here asking those questions. We need a place to point them.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Aussie;
Oh…..I ‘get it’……can’t explain it……I just get it!
I call it my ‘do, do, do’ feelings. I’ve learned to listen when ‘told’…..and ‘turn’ when turned.
Just can’t explain it!
(Report abusive comment)
Thisisme says:
Thank you all for your contributions to this site and to Donna for creating it – it has kept me afloat. You keep me company most nights and early mornings while I read the contents hoping to piece together the perfect way to beat the demon I invited into my life.
This morning I felt like being sick, I was reading the start of this segment and one of the comments said that a psychopath would let the cows starve even with food in the barn and I had a flash of my little one saying to me ‘mommy why doesn’t daddy feed me.’
A combination of trying to be as fair as possible and knowing that my oldest son loves his dad and they do so much together that I sit with this dilemma with my youngest son from a different father (From reading this blog and his continued comments and actions I believe him to be a P). The Dilemma is that I do believe sons need their dads (but not abusive psychotic dads) but before I had a name for him I tried to take my feelings out of it and taking the advice of the family advocate (HUGE MISTAKE) and think what is best for my son. Now through a court order he is allowed to phone every night and gets to see and overnight with my little 3 year old often even more so over the holidays.
I looked at my little boy who had crept into bed beside me and I wanted to scream am I SO pathetic that I cannot protect this dear little soul that has been entrusted to me.
My oldest son loves watching the animated version of avatar and I became quite engrossed in it too. In the last episode the avatar is fighting the fire lord and instead of compromise his belief in not killing he takes the fire lord’s power away and he is left alive but powerless can we not do the same to these demented creatures.
(Report abusive comment)
SuvivorAgain says:
OX, Milo, KatyDid and Sheila: THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING.
Erin: I have tried everything I possibly can. I have sent countless cards, birthday presents, easter baskets, valentines day candy and cards, halloween candy, Christmas gifts. Never forgot an important event or accomplishment in their lives. Talked to teachers and even looked at their grades. There is nothing that I have not done for my daughters. My life was my daughters and has been my life. I have to let go.
I never expected anything in return. The hatred I have seen in their eyes for me is frightening. I do believe, if they all (spath included) had the chance, I would be gone forever.
I understand the rights I have as a Mother. However, I have made some terrible mistakes by wanting my daughters to have a relationship with their father, even though, at the time, they wanted nothing to do with him. I have paid the price dearly — they are just like him. I believe they are lost forever. I am afraid of them. They have stolen from me, hit me and I even believe drugged me.
I have also been accused of being “mentally ill” by the spath. My daughters told me that they were to be “very careful” around me because of my illness. I am not mentally ill at all. I was told all of this prior to my filing for divorce by my youngest daughters. I am wondering how long the spath had been working on them.
I was told by my spath’s attorney that he told him If he could not have me nobody would. Hence a retraining order was put in place by his attorney. It did nothing to prevent the spath from following me and harassing me. It did not matter.
The spath also told me that if I ever left him, he would destroy me, he would leave me penniless, homeless and I would never see our daughters again. Erin, I lost everything — I mean everything. But, I will say, I have Freedom and am learning Peace. I have an unfailing Faith. He may have won the battle, but I won the war. I am gone.
The spath lied under oath, changed his story 3x about his raping me. One version with our pastor (the truth), the second under oath in court, another version and again with a family investigator yet another story. All of the versions, were written down, and when presented in court nothing was done.
I can’t stress to you enough the about of tears I have shed, kleenex I have used and lost sleep over my daughters and how my health has suffered over the worrying. There is absolutely nothing more that I can do. They are now 16 & 18 and are very capable of making their own decisions. I was not invited to my oldest daughters HS graduation, even though I sent her a graduation gift.
I am beginning the process of acceptance. I will probably not see either of them graduate from college, ever see them at a college function, meet their boyfriends, have those mother-daughter chats about life, or be at their weddings. I cannot loose any more sleep or heartache any longer. It is destroying me. I have to let go.
When this whole mess started the first time, they were 5 and 7. I filed for domestic violence and child abuse. He hit me, pushed me down the stairs and I ended up in the ER. He hit our daughters as well. He was in jail for 2 days. I foolishly took him back against my attorney’s better judgment. Attorney told me that these people do not change, but I thought mine was the exception. He was charged with 2 counts of child abuse and 1 count of DV. However, he pleaded to a lessor charge and was court ordered to attend DV and anger management classes, none of which he finished.
Why do my daughters stay with their abusive father? I understand from the neighbors that he pushed my oldest daughter down the stairs, spit on her, took her drivers license and froze her bank account. She wanted to leave the state and go to my family, but he would not let her go. Why does she stay?
Plenty of people have tried to talk to my daughters about their father and the lies he has been telling them about me and the divorce. But, no matter who is it, grandparents, counselors, guidance counselors at school, friends all she says is “my father would never lie to me” Its all my mother’s fault. There is no way of convincing them. It is total brainwashing.
My daughters are now young adults and very capable of making their own decisions. They have my address and know that I love them. I cannot do anything more. I will continue to communicate with cards. BTW, they are always sent restricted delivery so that I am certain they are received. This also infuriates the spath. I want to be certain they are receiving the gifts/cards that I send to them.
Both of my daughters have been to counseling with their father. What I have been told is that the spath tells the counselor whatever she wants to hear. Within minutes of leaving the office, the spath tells our daughters he is going to do whatever he wants. My youngest has given up on all counseling. She told one of my friends that it is a total waste of her time and that she sees hope and then the spath does whatever we wants. He manipulatves the system again at the expense of our daughters. They are now figuring it out.
I am a loving mother with a lot to offer. I will always pray for them every morning and every night as I do now and have done in the past. I will now give my love and affection to some child at my church who does not have a mother who cares about them. I will help them, encourage them, nuture them. It will be good for my soul. It’s Christmas time the season of hope.
I have to learn to forgive my ex-husband my daughters and move on in this new year.
Please, I hope to hear back from all of you. I will always love my daughters, but for now I cannot be a part of their lives. They are toxic.
(Report abusive comment)
MiLo says:
survivoragain ~
You have done everything a loving mother can do, and then some.
Know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Survivor again,
I agree with MiLo, you have done all you can and your continuing prayers are for your benefit as much as theirs….sometimes God calms the storm, and sometimes He calms the frightened child.
Forgiveness I think means to get the bitterness out of your heart about something, it does NOT mean that you must reestablish a relationship or trust as well.
Your X has probably “trauma bonded” the daughters to him, as happens in many abusive relationships. You were trauma bonded to him for a while (like when you went back to him against your attorney’s advice.) If your daughters are not psychopaths, they may eventually realize the truth and break the bonds like you did.
I suggest that you read “The Betrayal Bond” which is about trauma bonding and how it works. It may answer some questions for you about why you stayed, and why they stay.
Keep your faith strong. We don’t know the “whys” always, but we do know that we can accept what IS that is something we cannot change. Focus your love on someone who will willingly receive it, someone who needs it and wants it. ((hugs))) and God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
sheila says:
To Survivor,
Now that we see a lot more details, you’re right. You really have done as much as you could possibly do. You don’t have to feel guilty. You can only pray that they will get understanding of what their father is really like and one day come back to you. Or if they are spaths, to leave you alone. That’s a great idea about trying to help another needy child.
(Report abusive comment)
sheila says:
Erin, I just have to say that you’re a real inspiration! Where do you get your strength from? I am not in immediate danger, and my husband is a more subdued spath, though still toxic. I want to leave and don’t think the kids would go to him, though of course he’s going to fight it with all he’s got. I’m not financially stable and am working on that. My oldest is 15 and when she’s with her dad she’s a terror, but after a few days of not seeing him much, she’s back to being as normal as a teenager can be.
Thanks for the credit card history info Survivor and Erin. We don’t live in the States, so I’ll have to find another way.
(Report abusive comment)
strongawoman says:
Thisisme, how heart wrenching was that plea! How do you protect your little one? He is just a baby but you know babies grow up ….of course. And it may not be much of a comfort to you but it’s not always a given that they grow up irreparably damaged by their experience of bad parenting. Have faith in you and the love that you show your son. My children are grown up now. They have had their fair share of carp bestowed upon them by shiat parenting. You sound like a good mum. You care for and love your son. We naturally want to protect our children from bad people. Trouble is the bad people we want to protect them from have rights …..and our children have none it would seem. Crass, unjust society that feeds this belief that sees a child as another commodity. We don’t own them. We owe them. You keep fighting the good fight my dear.
Stay strong and best wishes
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Thisisme,
Sorry I missed your post above until I saw Strongawoman’s reply to it.
It is frustrating, but with the “family courts” being what they are it is difficult to legally cut the ties with a parent no matter how much we know it is emotionally or otherwise abusive.
All I can suggest you do is to teach yourself as much as you can, and Dr. Liane Leedom’s blog (and books) about “parenting the at risk child” are good starts. Your child, as the genetic offspring of a psychopath has some genetic tendencies in that direction. Dr. Leedom’s son is from her P-X-husband so she is working really hard to teach him empathy and impulse control.
Read her articles here on LF as well, she is quite a wise woman.
Keep loving your son and SHOWING him your love. (((Hugs))) and God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
SuvivorAgain says:
You all have been so wonderful to me, just a stranger, in the same sad circumstances. But together, we can pray for each other, assist each other from our wins and failures.
Thank you all for your kind words. It is a sad world that we live in, thinking we own children. You are absolultely right, we OWE our children, protection, love, kindness, morals/standards, consistent and loving discipline.
Please continue to keep me and my daughters in your prayers. I am truly learning to completely let go and let God, for I do not have any more answers or strength.
I will keep in touch when I have some more news. I wish you all a very blessed Christmas Season full of hope, peace and joy.
(Report abusive comment)
MiLo says:
thisisme ~ I am sorry, I didn’t see your post at first either and I wanted to make sure I commented.
I think one of the questions is why do these evil, good for nothings, fight so hard (in court) to have custody or visitation with children they can’t even bother to properly take care of. When will the courts start looking out for the best interest of the child instead of “parental rights”. They should not even hold the title “parent”.
I know it must be so hard for you to know that your little son is not even being fed during his visits. I am so sorry. You probably already are doing this, but if not, start a journal and keep track of everything surrounding the visits. What mood your son is in prior to and after each visit. Is he very hungry and/or thirsty when he gets home. Is he dressed properly when returned. Is he showing up on time and dropping him off on time. Date and time of each call, i.e. is he going days without calling. Journal everything. I use a date planner with room to write on each date and I do it immediately so that I do not forget.
In this way, if you ever decide to go back to court to have visitation order amended, or even to a mediator who deals with visitation, you will have notes on everything.
Keep loving your son with all your heart and I admire you for fighting so hard for him.
Thoughts & Prayers to you
(Report abusive comment)
Thisisme says:
Stongawoman, Ox Drover, MiLo – Thank you I have taken note of all your advice.
Like a magician does his tricks with a slight of hand, smoke and mirrors so a P plays the Legal system. People see the illusion and for all that have discovered the truth it is an uphill battle to convince people that they are being conned.
The hardest thing for me, on an intellectual level, is that he is so illogical and my modus operandi is to identify the problem and make it better for all involved; I was also taught that you need to put yourself in someone else’s shoes but all of that is null and void in this situation. All my points of reference love, kindness, generosity; sincerity (to name a few) and I guess structure are nonexistent in this abomination who happens to be my son’s father.
My little boy is going to his P for five nights this evening – please keep him in your thoughts.
I wish you all strength and wisdom; it is comforting to know that in this LF community I have a voice – Thank you.
xxx
(Report abusive comment)
MiLo says:
thisisme ~
“Put yourself in someone else’s shoes” just does not work with these people, apparently they don’t wear shoes.
I understand how hard it is for you to let your little boy go for the next five nights. We will keep him in our thoughts and prayers.
(((hugs)))
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
This is me,
Your comment about wanting to “put yourself in their shoes” is another great addition to the FALSE “TRUTHS” that we are taught….Milo is right, they do NOT have shoes! The phrase of course means to look at how that other person thinks, but it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to know how they think—without them having empathy, without compassion….etc. it is impossible for us, with empathy and compassion, to know to even figure out “how they think.”
(Report abusive comment)
callmeathena says:
Ox Drover
I talked to my therapist about that last night.
I can’t understand what it’s like to be my spath because there isn’t the “ORDER” in their brains that there is in ours.
I was also trying to put myself in the shoes of somebody close to me who has a PASSIVE personality. I’m not passive. But “passive” is closer to normal than SPATH. And I couldn’t put myself in the shoes of somebody PASSIVE either.
It’s really, really hard to actually see something from somebody else’s perspective.
Athena
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Athena,
That is true, empathy is hard sometimes. But if you see someone who has lost a family member through death say, and they are crying, empathy is when you feel SAD WITH THEM. YOU have not lost anyone, maybe you don’t even know this person but it is someone on a news program, but you see and feel the sadness that the other person is experiencing. That is empathy.
The psychopath on the other hand can see the same thing, someone sad because they have lost a loved one, but the psychopath, without empathy, isn’t able to actually FEEL that sadness.
Understanding the psychopath, getting inside their heads, and being able to “connect” with them is very difficult, much more difficult than connecting with a normal person I think, because their value system, their moral compass (or lack of one) is not something we understand.
(Report abusive comment)
callmeathena says:
Oxy
Don’t I know it! I found an email I sent my spath in 2009 – I hadn’t known him that long…. I wrote this long letter to him encouraging him
“have a conscience”
“understand the difference between right and wrong”
“live in a manner such that you’re unafraid to have everything and anything you do printed on the front page of the wall street journal”
It cracks me up when I read it again, in retrospect.
I hadn’t figured out that he was a SPATH, and I didn’t know what a SPATH was.
And here I am, silly little ole me, thinking an EMAIL would CHANGE SOMEBODY. Like he’d read it, and say, “oh! I need to understand the difference between right and wrong. OK! Done!”.
Ha ha ha ha ha, it just kills me!
Athena
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Athena,
I know. I’m guilty of the same thing.
We know that we can learn to be more empathetic, so we imagine anyone can.
But I like Milo’s analogy about spaths not wearing shoes. It’s because they HAVE NO FEET! Where would they put the shoes? We can’t imagine what it’s like to not have feet, at least, not easily. God knows I’ve tried. The spath just wears prosthetic legs so we can’t tell that they aren’t real legs.
Actually in the Reich Lowen tradition, they do say that the psychopath “lacks grounding”. They say that this is manifested in the psychopaths body by very small feet.
My spath had very small feet. You know what they say about men with small feet…it’s true.
Spath also said that when he was growing up, he walked on his tippy toes. Reich Lowen also say that spaths’ feet don’t really touch the ground – that there isn’t firm connection to the ground.
Anyone else notice small feet?
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Yea, Athena, I think many of us have been sort of Pollyanna-ish in thinking that everyone has some good down in them, or that they think like we do, or have empathy, or simply that they WANT to do what is right. I also think that some of us (me at least) are a bit egocentric as well when we think that we have the POWER to find the right words to “change” someone else. LOL ROTFLMAO Yea, it is “magical” thinking to think that we are so powerful that we can change someone else.
Would be nice if we could. I honestly remember thinking “Oh, if I could just find the right words to get inside his head so he could see what he is doing to himself, my son would stop robbing, etc” LOL BOY was I naive to say the least! STOOPID might be a better word! LOL
(Report abusive comment)
MiLo says:
OMG Sky – my daughter always walked on her tippy toes when she was a child.
Oh, before I forget, I wanted to mention that if the spath dirt bag sends you money, why not donate it to the Poison Control Center. Then they could write him a thank you note telling him how he is helping prevent poisonings…….
(Report abusive comment)
callmeathena says:
.
The spath in my life didn’t have small feet, but he looked like he was on stage, being held up by a big hook in his back (you know, in Peter Pan and some Operas where the character is swept across the stage by a hook in his back?).
It didn’t look right, and it sure wasn’t the posture of somebody relaxed and self confident. His neck was crunched, his shoulders hunched and too high.
I think it was the FEAR that is pervasive in SPATHS that manifested itself in a physical way.
With people who are born deformed, when you can see it in Downs Syndrome, or Cystic Fibrosis, or MS, or whatever it is, you can really see it and say, “oh, there it is”. With a spath, their deformity you can’t really see. It still boggles my mind every single day, and he’s not even in my life any more.
Athena
(Report abusive comment)
coping says:
Today I’m exhausted and heatbroken. Yesterday I recieved the Family Court Supervised visitation report. It took everything within me not to completely break down. I’ve been working so hard to re-establish myself financially and raising jr i couldn’t allow myself to stop last night..
All I can say is I’m shocked and upset and don’t know what to do.
The spath was granted 12 supervised visits… He cancelled 3 times and by the 2nd cancellation they SHOULD have closed the case…
Instead this report stated “he is a nurturing and caring parent…and on the last visit called his father dada” Jr. just turned 1..and cannot distiguish those he knows closely…let alone someone he only saw 10 times over a 5 month span…
The report further CRUSIFIED me…I knew the case worker did not like me and the spath had her duped!! Big time…
I don’t know what to do. I finally thought maybe just maybe he would be gone. I fear this report will give him the fuel to carry the fire…
I don’t know what to do or what to expect. The report is so bias and factually incorrect. I know that an attorney could question it …however I cannot and do not have $ to continue with this (I can get it but don’t know if I should get an attorney onboard now or wait to see if something happens) He still continues to bleed me dry financially without even being part of my life anymore. I don’t know if he needs to petion to the court to have the case reviewed or if the state automatically sets a court date. I believe it’s automatic…
I’m in tears..this will never end. He pays no child support, owes me thousands in attorney fees, we were never married, no DNA test, not on birth certificate,he only filed a petition after he was served with a restraining order when jr. was 5 weeks old. All he did was spend $120 to file a pertiion and show up to court. He has complied with nothing required by the attorney….and SOMEHOW managed to dupe and get around the visitation requirements.This is my punishment and a new identity he has now created for himself.
I am floored. I feel like I’ve been kicked in the gut…I cn’t do this. I finally reached a point where I was starting to move forward..now this.
i don’t know what to do? Do I just be patient and wait? Do I get an attorney again? This report is beyond belief…I can’t spend money when it’s not necessary…I can’t be afraid of him and live like this worrying about my and Jrs future…
He does not care. This costs him nothing!! This state does not require child support with respect to visitation…IF i have to get a GAL..who pays for that. Jr. will not me safe with him.
I don’t know what to do.. right now nothing is happening so I guess I need to calm down and continue to focus on OUR lives. The spath has gone under the radar since the visits ended..after my car was vandalized. He is still around however all of his TELLS are gone. Somehow he knows something…I really don’t know what to do..
I’m afraid of what will happen..this CANNOT go on like this. Why won’t he just go away?
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Coping,
I suggest that though it will be a financial stretch that you consult with an attorney….an office consultation shouldn’t be all that much and at least should let you know what YOUR RIGHTS ARE….with him not being on the birth certificate and no DNA report…I think it is time you DENIED he is the father….and therefore HE WOULD HAVE TO SPRING FOR A DNA test….but I am NOT an attorney, so consult with an attorney to find out what your rights are, what you can do and then at least the ANXIETY OF NOT KNOWING would be lessened.
Put it on to him to PAY OR not play, then, move as FAR AWAY as you can AS FAST AS YOU CAN DO SO LEGALLY….NOW if the attorney says you can do so. As long as this guy is in your life, you and junior will be at his mercy! Good luck and God bless.! (((hugs)))
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
ps Coping I just thought too, if it is “illegal” for you to move away now, ask your attorney what the consequences would be if you did, it might actually be easier on you and Junior if you just moved away and then LET HIM HIRE AN ATTORNEY AND GO TO THE COURTS TO TRY TO FIND YOU….with Junior having him on the Birth Certificate, as long as you don’t ask for welfare where the welfare office would then have the right to go after the father, you ought to be in my estimation safe. YOu must make sure he cannot track you though, even if you can move legally.
TALK TO AN ATTORNEY though for advice, I am not an attorney for sure. Good luck!
(Report abusive comment)
coping says:
Ox-
I did consult an attorney a few months back about relocation. Basically in this state I still need to petion the court to move. DESPITE the fact he has NO custodial rights…the supervised visits establshed minimal rights…DESPITE the 7- year restraining order-this state does not link DV with parenting. If I do not what would baically happen is he CAN go to court and get whatever he wants…which means I might even have to PAY to have Jr. come visit him. I would not be here to defend myself or Jr…and the case would go on without us.That would cost me 3-7K in attorney fees alone.
I was planning to save all I can and leave anyway…but can’t do it right now…
Now it enter the “new phase” of what he gets and how often. Protecting us will surely cost 3-7K easily…
Remember he does not WANT jr…just Monday and Tuesday and EVERY holiday (including mothers day). That in itself is a joke…
I don’t know. I feel so lost..he is playing a game., however this game is destroying me and Jr. (We are getting better but it continues) I need to think outside the box. I need to do something differntly. I’ve been following the rules…whereas he has none. I need to THINK like a spath.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Dear Coping,
I’m so sorry.
You said he didn’t do anything until AFTER you filed a restraining order. That speaks volumes. You made it clear that you were afraid and wanted NO CONTACT with him. You showed what you wanted and what you valued. So he went after it. His intent is simply to DEFY your desire for NO CONTACT.
This is why I’m having second thoughts about telling people to go NC. I think the GOAL should be NC, but the tool to get there should be GREY ROCK.
The idea of being boring was not my own. It was what a man I met in a sushi bar told me to do. I later called it gray rock.
He explained that any attempt to get a way from a spath would simply make them chase you.
The point of being boring is to make the spath think that it is HIS idea to leave you alone. Fight or Flight just excites the spaths. Freezing is a better option.
You can’t run, you can’t hide because you are the mouse and they are the cats. The only thing you can do is play dead – or boring. dead mice are boring. They kinda look like gray rocks. Cats walk away if there are no signs of life. Sure they will bat at you a little bit, but it gets old fast.
I’ve seen this work with mice, the mouse scurries away when the cat leaves.
Every time I had left my spath he would chase me down. Only the last time did he finally leave me alone – eventually. I never went NC, I just made any contact he had with me “unsatisfying”. No drama, only dry derision and mask removal came from my lips. I alternated between telling him how concerned I was for him because of his socipathic PD, to laughing at him for being so predictable. Each ploy was met with disgust.
Now he’s back to emailing me and I didn’t respond. I hope that was the right decision, but so far, all it has done is make him up the ante. I’m wondering if it was the right call. Maybe I should have responded with grey rock. Unfortunately, it’s too late now to change tactics. If I respond at all, I’ll just confirm to him that his increased prodding finally did the trick.
Coping, my point is that you have to do nothing that will confirm to him that he is getting to you. Behave as if you don’t care. I know it’s hard because it’s about your baby. But YOU HAVE TO, if you want to save your baby. Remember, everything about spaths is 180 degrees the opposite of normal.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Skylar and Coping,
Read the Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker who is an EXPERT at stalking….he goes over and over and over why NC is the only way, and yes, they DO up the ante when you first go NC…Sky remember the most recent stalker I had, she upped the ante then apologized then upped it again when I stayed NC….and that is what they do.
As deBecker said they will push and push and push and up the ante and you stay NC for 30 times, but then on the 31st they get a reply and they have taught themselves that it takes 31 TIMES to get you to reply, so they will never give up if you reply. Some still won’t give up, but it is the INTERMITTENT REINFORCEMENT PRINCIPLE that psychologists learned in how animals respond, it is why the SLOT MACHINE which gives you an Intermittent reward works.
WE MUST STAY NC, and not FEED THE TROLLS….I know in a situation where there is legal contact (like in co-parenting) there are times we must legally respond or break the law, but FEEDING the trolls even with gray rocks has been proven over and over and over again by people who DO GET IT that it just makes them come back for more. ANY Attention, even boring attention FEEDS THEM.
(Report abusive comment)
coping says:
Skylar-
Thanks..we might have posted over each other. We haven’t spoken for a year since the RO went into effect. He makes no effort to contact me…yes my car was trashed…email hacked…ect. however he will not make DIRECT contact unless he cracks. That would mean jail for him and thats not something he wants or would benifit him. I believe he enjoys the illusion he has created of himeself as being the loving and caring father…who pays $1000 a month in child support.LOL…yep he gives it all away to the ex-bch. Thats why he is always so broke and can’t do anything or pay anyone back…ect., ect.,
Bottom line is I need to THINK like a spath. I cannot have emotions of any kind about him…erase the fear…erase the enxiety of the future….Work…focus on Jr…and save EVERY penny and then run like hell.
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Oxy and Coping,
the problem is that they have memories of us being very good supply (I was the BEST).
Those memories will not go away, they have to be replaced by new memories of “no fun there”.
Coping, you need to “plant a seed” of disinformation. When he has visitation dates, make it seem like you’re in a hurry to drop off Jr. because you have another appt.
Make it seem to the spath that these visitations are benefiting you because you are using the time to do other things which you otherwise couldn’t do.
If he doesn’t show, pretend to be exasperated and inconvenienced. – but not too much drama. Chance are he will make it a habit to show up even LESS than he does now. And remember, that is your goal, right?
Everything you want, pretend you don’t. Everything you don’t want, pretend you’re benefiting from it. Spaths can’t think things through, they only behave contrary to what they perceive as your emotional response.
(Report abusive comment)
coping says:
Skylar-
How do you make a spath go away when part of thier “current illusion” is being part of something like fatherhood or false fatherhood. Remeember he has 2 other kids from different women he does not care about or support. It was only after he Petioned the court for visitation of Jr…AFTER the restraining order…that he contacted the mother of another child- after 7 years of ignoring her. He duped her and she is now one of his biggest supporters…if only she knew.
Skylar…should I be patient and wait for this illusion to go away? Will it eventually go away on it’s own? December 13th was my official 1 year NC date…yet we are still linked together….
He stays in my mind due to fear and uncertainty…wheras we are NEVER in his mind EXCEPT for what he can get. Does that make sence?
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear Coping,
He is “renting space inside your head” and that is what you and ONLY you can do something about.
The worry, the anxiety you feel, the “borrowing trouble” and wondering this or that….those feelings seem to come out of no where but YOU CAN control them.
When you find yourself thinking thoughts like this. STOP!!!! Hold your hand up and say to yourself “STOP!” That is NON Productive thinking and renting him space and I will not do it.”
The brain actually is only programmed to “see” one “file” (thought) at a time, so we must actively think of something else to get the “bad thought” out of our focus.
It doesn’t have to be anything “big” just sing a nursery rhyme in your head or count your ABCs, pick a memory you love and think about it…..and focus on NOT thinking about him, about NOT allowing intrusive thoughts of him into your mind.
Hang in there! It does get better! (((hugs)))
ps. Sky’s advice about making him think you don’t care about the visitations is a good one, don’t give him any notice that he is causing you distress….when you DO have to have contact, then be boring, but in the meantime, don’t let him intrude on your thoughts!
(Report abusive comment)
coping says:
Ox-
I like that…thank you.
Realistically the report is ONLY a piece of paper. As of RIGHT NOW it means nothing. I cannot not change it, I cannot be afraid of it, I cannot control the outcome of what “might” happen 4 months down the road. I must wait..Patiently wait..while living MY life. Securing a home and giving love to Jr., if I don’t stop and think like that life will never move on…I will never be a good mother and I will never be able to re-build all that has been lost.
A time will come to address this…At that time it will be addressed. It doesn’t seem fair and it hurts but as I have seen life just isn’t fair. I will just add that piece of paper to my mental mental list of spath dupes…
I can’t do anything now. So why worry? Right now we are safe…that is the most important thing. Time will move on regardless…I guess it’s just my attitude that needs to change (towards him).
Thank you.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Coping, RIGHT ON!!! You can’t change him, you can’t change what he does, you can only change your attitude about it! Right now, the most MOST important thing is that you be a good mother to Junior, and I bet that he doesn’t mess with you much, he will find a new victim sooner or later (look at his last patterns of behavior) just keep your head low, and in the meantime, love that little boy!
Check in with Dr. Leedom’s blog about “parenting the at risk child” and be the best mommy that any little boy ever had! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
skylar says:
Coping,
Spaths are story driven characters. They NEED a story in order to feel “real”. Your spath has created the story and it is now his facade. He’ll tell it to everyone he can. The more people believe it the more “real” it becomes. This is why they are such sick f*cks, they are not even beholden to reality.
You have to change the story line. Tempt him with new characters, new plots and new drama and adventure. The word “tempt” is appropriate because it is an appeal to his narcissism.
I don’t have a specific idea or advice. Only to watch for opportunities to “add to his story-line”. You will have opportunites to “wear a costume” or “add a prop”. My spath did this all the time, in order to pull off his cons. It’s called “frame control”. The person observing, makes assumptions about what they are observing.
My evil spath even got some goons in black SUV’s to follow me around at the end of our relationshit. He wanted me to believe that we were under surveillance by Homeland Security. This was to scare me and to make me sign out business over to him.
When he did this, I played along. I called him and sounded scared, “spath I’m being followed by a black SUV with all kinds of electronic equipment on the dash, I’ve taken video of them. But don’t worry I won’t drive to your hanger so they won’t know where I’m going.” LOL!
He was convinced I was falling for his BS. Then I could do other things like not answer the phone and when he asked why, I would say, “because, I think it’s bugged.”
Remember, they are just like children living in neverland. sickos.
(Report abusive comment)
Louise says:
skylar:
It’s funny you should say that because mine told stories all the time…talked, talked, talked…all kind of stories about anything and everything. He talked all day long yet never said a thing!
(Report abusive comment)
MiLo says:
Coping ~ I just saw your post. What do I say. I’m so sorry. Just a couple of things I will add. You are right that the report is just a piece of paper, however it is an inaccurate, false and misleading document. If left unchallenged, it could come back to bite you. If the court stated that 2 missed visits cancelled the case, then this needs to be challenged. 3 out of 12 missed visits should be HUGE, in the eyes of the court. I don’t care how “nurturing” he pretended to be, HE MISSED 3 out of 12 visits. Anytime anything is found to be “false”, it should be dealt with right then, because if not it is viewed as Oh Well, she didn’t seem to mind at the time. Or, that fell through the cracks.
Coping, when discussing these missed visits use the word CONSISTENCY a lot. Social workers, GAL’s, judges respond to that word. It is universally known that kids this age NEED consistency, even if just in visits.
I know it is a financial hardship, but I think you need to talk to an attorney sooner rather than later. Often times it is easier to put out the “small fires” before they grow. I think there are a lot of issues in your case that need looking into, again before he files something else.
You asked about who pays a GAL – usually the fee is split between the two parties, not always (our case), but most of the time.
Again, I am so sorry, I wish there was more I could help you with.
(Report abusive comment)
strongawoman says:
Coping,
Just read your post. So sorry you are going through all that with your ex.
Try some present moment living. No “should have done/ could have done” this or that OR “what ifs” …..they’re particularly unhelpful.
Living in the present moment.
Wishing you and your son blessings and peace
(Report abusive comment)
coping says:
Dearest Ox, Milo, Sky and strong-
. I’m sorry its taken me so long to respond but life has been non-stop.
Thank you so much for your input.
Thank you for pulling me back on track.
Ox- I am going with your point of view and it’s working well. LOL.. I’m working so so many hours its tough…but all is ok.
Milo- I agree it needs to be dealt with..sooner than later. I’m going to consult an attorney the beginning of Jan…
Sky- For the first time I really got it…the illusion the mask…ect. It’s so strange I fibnally got or finally accepted it. Its still such a strange concept fot me…but thank you..dots finally connected…it’s only taken a year lol.
Srong- yes we must live in today
God bless and goodnight.
(Report abusive comment)
endthepain says:
It has been quite awhile since I have posted on here..altho I have checked in often to keep myself grounded….
My ex has not seen his child nor myself in over 2 yrs. he has recently attempted to get his mother to contact me and get info…the courts are after him for contempt for not paying support…I received this letter today…..I can definitely read in between the words as I am stronger now…but any advice insight would help….please:
Hi
I am writing this letter to you so we can decide what to do about Dylan. I am willing to do what you think is best. I have tried calling and sending text. I miss him and know I am missing out in his life. I am giving you an opportunity to make this easy for all of us. You just ned to let me know what you want me to do. I dont want to disrupt Dylans life. Or Yours! But, as you know my child support payments are adding up. And if they continue to do so I will begin court proceedings and fight for time with Dylan. I know neither one of us want that. Please let me know your thoughts. I just want to talk, and see what is best for Dylan and his future.
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
See my answer on the other thread.
(Report abusive comment)