Heeding the exploiter’s earliest warnings
PDF Editor’s note: This article was submitted by Steve Becker, LCSW, CH.T, who has a private psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and clinical consulting practice in New Jersey, USA. For more information, visit his website, powercommunicating.com.
In my work with clients involved with exploitative personalities, it’s not unusual to learn, together, that detectable, early warning signals went unrecognized, minimized, or both.
This isn’t to blame the subsequent victims of abusive partners; there are many instances where such clues were lacking (and even when not, blame is inappropriate). But it’s to appreciate, undefensively, that the honeymoon phase of a relationship is almost, by definition, one that invites a level of denial. The denial helps protect our fantasy that we’ve finally met our perfect love partner. It’s in the honeymoon phase, especially, that our need to idealize a prospective partner is at its strongest, correspondingly leaving our objectivity—and sobriety—at its weakest. This makes for a worrisome combination, specifically encouraging the ignoring of ominous signals that, even if subtle, are no less invaluable and critical.
In retrospect, my clients are often surprised to admit that the exploiter in whom they chose to invest really did “tip his hand” more than they wanted, later, to admit. Not all, but many sociopaths aren’t clever enough to fully disguise, even in the early stages of a relationship, their core self-centeredness and insensitivity, if our radar is sufficiently non-compromised.
The key, of course, is first to recognize these signs. But interestingly this isn’t the hardest challenge. The hardest challenge is then to heed them.
I find that many of my clients were in fact cognizant of odd, disconcerting behaviors/attitudes that their exploitative partners were reckless enough to reveal (or incapable of concealing). They may have even felt troubled by them. But in their intense need to want the relationship, and the partner, to be the elusive fit they so hungrily sought, they found ways to suppress their uneasiness: to ignore and/or minimize the significance of these signals; and rationalize the alarms their instincts triggered.
In other words, it’s not so much that their antennae are necessarily impaired (because often they aren’t); rather, it’s their weak response to what their antennae properly register that is the problem. It’s like a smoke detector that goes off in a distant room in the house. You hear it, or think you do, but you’re so slumberously inebriated that you convince yourself you’re not hearing what’s inconvenient to hear—maybe it’s not really the smoke detector—and so rationalize, at great personal risk, your inaction. The inconvenient, much less pleasant reaction (and action) would be to confront—and not ignore—the dimly perceived, but potentially lifesaving, signal. Among other lessons, this suggests just how inconvenient and unpleasant it sometimes is to have to take the steps necessary to protect ourselves.
When I work with clients who find themselves in, or recovering from, victimizing relationships, this theme takes on great meaning and becomes a source of self-empowerment. My clients are determined to become more confident, not only in their radar for uncovering the first dubious chinks in their partners; they are even more determined to learn how to heed these earliest warnings in present, and future relationships.
Whether the warning is more jarring, like a flash of previously unseen rage or coldness, or more subtle, like a disarming expression of entitlement, they’ll want to notice it (the first, and easier task); and then, confronting their powers of rationalization, they’ll want to examine it seriously and soberly for precisely the implications they’re so fearful of seeing.
written by Steve Becker, LCSW • Permalink •
bibleannie says:
correction in post, The doctor he plays Golf with not, gold. LOL
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Bible Annie,
Only people who WANT to change, who humble their hearts can be changed. God is not going to Zap goodness into someone who WANTS to do evil.
Psychopaths use masks or cloaks to hide their evil. They are WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING and Jesus warned the apostles that they would come into the CHURCH itself. False prophets. The Pharisees that Jesus confronted were the most outwardly “holy” of the Jewish people, yet they were psychopaths ripping off widows and orpahns while pretending to be “good” He warned us that they are like the tombs, whitewashed and beautiful on the OUTSIDE and full of rotten men’s bones INSIDE.
Jesus warned us to look at a tree’s FRUIT (in other words, BEHAVIOR) and we could see if the tree was good or evil.
I unfortunately have dealt with that exact same cloak and once you see through the fabric and see what it is hiding, only then can you realize that Jesus also said that we should DISTANCE ourselves from these people , and St Paul said DON’T EVEN EAT WITH THEM. If that is not what we call “NO CONTACT” here I do not know what is.
We must “forgive them” but that does NOT mean that we ALSO have to TRUST them. Read the story of Joseph who was sold into Egypt, he forgave his brothers before they showed up in Egypt, but he TESTED them severely before he would TRUST them again.
The church and piety are great cloaks that people hide behind while they do their evil. They may pretend to repent, but it is only WORDS, not changed or sincere behavior.
Keep in mind that real repentence shows a CHANGE that is more than words! ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you!
(Report abusive comment)
bibleannie says:
OxyDrover
Heres’ just one of “a whopper of a lie” that S pulled about 2 years ago.
He took a job working for a motorcycle dealership as the service manager. Immediately, he fired a technician who had been there for 20 years because according to S he was threat to him. S claimed he was going around sniffing and medeling where he shouldn’t have. S said the kicker to firing him was because this man had gone into his computer and was snooping around looking for payroll information. S said that he knew this because the next morning he went to log onto his pc and a page was displayed where he beleived this man was looking at private company stuff.
So, he fired this man. Personally I couldn’t believe he would do that without any proof. I believe my S set this man up.
Then as time progressed I would bring his lunch to hiim every day (a 20 mile drive) he loved this. He would sit back in his chair and just gloat in front of the guys (techs). They all were like a little army working for him. He even in front of me one day had all his guys do their daily work out session. They all got on the floor doing push ups and so on. It was like they were hypnotized, very bizzare.
Eventually he encourage them all the use his office computer and space to take breaks and hang out. Many times I would walk in and see them hoverd over his pc and when they saw me, they would get uncomfortabe. S would brag to me how he loved having them all under his wing to mentor them. WELLLLL, guess what I did, I swear I knew I was taking a big risk. S controlled all the computers in the department. Each guy had one of their own but S loved it when they all gathered in his office and used his pc. Guess why?????
It was cover for his own deviant, sick perverted lusts. He set them all up, just in case someone might find something on his pc questionable. That way, the upper management wouldn’t know who was going to these sick sites . I know this becuase I managed to get a very slim chance to be at his work while he was outside handling a customer and I installed a keylogger on his pc at work. Yes, I know it was wrong, but I was desperate. I did know that his pc was not hooked into the intranet structure.
The very next day, I saw the pc logs that were emailed to me and about fell off my chair. S always, alwasys went to work about 1 or two hours earlier than anyone and he often boasted about what a hard worker he was, the first one there every morning.
The log showed the times, pictures, websites visited everything. My dear sweet S was going to sites that were very distrubing. He contolled these guys to perform by promising them a trip to a “perverted pigs club” , that’s what I call gentlemens clubs anyway. This was how he manipluated these young guy techs to crank out work.
So, I eventually confronted him and had to become sociopathic to get around his evil ways. After he fired that man of 20 year, he told me that this man threatened his life, that he should watch his back cause he just ruined his. I was scared for myself. S didnt seem at all phased by this mans “so called” threats. That’s when I installed the program on his pc at work.
So, I told S that I was tipped off about things on his pc and that was given a print out of his activities by some unknown in our mailbox. It was thhe only way I thought I could expose him for what he was to be manipulative myself. When I showed him these papers of his activity, I suggested that this man might have been getting his revenge. S was like, no way, that’s impossible. The next morning, S went to work even earlier than ususal. Came home that night and told me that there wasn’t anything on his pc. Sure, he just went in there and erased all traces Im sure. He denied it forcefully that it was not him. How could I ever imagine or accuse him of such a thing, blah, blah blah. Well, about 1 month later, my s came home early, crying and told me he was fired. I asked what for, he told me that they accused him of fraud. Of course it was an honest mistake, he was just trying to help a friend out with warranty stuff.
And…there are hundreds more if this sort of sick deceit and this is all in just four years that I have known him.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Bibleannie,
It is obvious he is a LIAR, and that is what Ps do, LIE, LIE LIE. They ARE THE LIE!
What you did with the key logger in my opinion is justified and do not feel bad about doing it. You caught him red handed obviously.
Also the “helping a friend out with his warranty” was obviously STEALING from the company by getting them to do warranty work for free that was NOT justified. STEALING is stealing, any way you look at it.
Your X is a THIEF, a LIAR, and a DIRTY PICTURE ADDICT. So we know he doesn’t have any love for the Lord, because the Lord says that Satan is the FATHER OF ALL LIARS. Just as you try to follow your heavenly father’s plan for your life, your X is following HIS “father” Satan’s plan for his life—of lies and lust and theft. His heart is “hardened” against God, and his “mask” of pretending to be good makes him a Wolf in sheep’s clothing. Get away and STAY away from him. No matter how he jfools others, YOU KNOW THE TRUTH. GOD KNOWS THE TRUTH, and even if others don’t know the truth and won’t listen to the truth, or buy into his “i’m sorry, I’m changing” lies, stick to your guns. You don’t need others to validate the truth for it to be true. By its fruit you will know if a tree is good or evil. Your X is raining down a whole crop of ROTTEN FRUIT. ((((HUGS)))) and God bless you is my prayer.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrockovich says:
Bibleannie:
He acts like a common sociopath! And unfortunately, his actions are not shocking to me….(I am hardened)
DO NOT separate yourself into a ‘higher’ status with him……YOU are being used the same way as his tech crew….
Your his front, your his out.
I LOVE THE KEYLOGGER deal…..GOOD FOR YOU!
You doubted and you proved! No questions now huh? Sometimes, when we feel deceit we need to uncover the truth ourselves…..for our own confirmation
I am sure you have done other things to uncover who HE is…..and it won’t be the last covert thing you do…..I assure you! Do it with NO GUILT…..
Recon warriors stand tall!!!!
Decide what you need to do to make a successful out…..
and move in that direction!
In the meantime, your gonna have to keep your ‘inner sociopath’ close for protection!
YEs….Please delete your history and cookies after each log off….you DO NOT want him locating what you are doing on the computer!
(Report abusive comment)
bibleannie says:
OxDrover,
Oh believe me, I want to very much. It will take some time because in the past 4 years, he has sabatoged three jobs I had by constantly calling me at work interrupting my time with clients. My bosses would get exasperated and I would end up leaving to another place only to have the same thing over and over. He has ruined my credit history. 4 years ago I bought my very own new car. It was repoed within a year because he behind my back took money out of bank to catch up his truck payments, it was a snowball effect.
Now I am not working, the car I do drive he has it fixed so that the company he works for holds the title for it so it’s really just a loaner car. Now, my son is moving back here which is wonderful, and my S told yesterday that he was so happy that he was so he could become very good friends with him. Shudders went up my spine.
My s corrupts people.
Anyway, after we come back from Fla. for Thanksgiving to visit his folks, I do plan on finding a job out of town so he can’t stop by just anytime. I insisted he open his own bank account with Woodforest cause they overlook your banking history. He did reluctantly, I told him that we needed to give my account a rest and get it straightened out. He wansn’t happy about it but did it after I calmly explained that it would good to give my account a rest.
So, I am already getting the plan in motion.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrockovich says:
Bibleannie:
I am gathering your son is older….and this man is not his father….
Is your son close with YOU?
IS he aware of the S’s behaviors…..
Does he like the s?
ANy chance your son could be corrupted by the s?
This statement was a heads up….the same thing the thing I married (s) would do….he always offered me a ‘heads up’. Don’t take that lightly!
Think about this? If there is any chance your son would fall for it…..I would try to avoid bringing him into the mix!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear BibleAnnie,
Good girl! Because he will continue to cause you problems. You also may need to set a STRICT boundary about him comign by or calling your work, and tell him that you will NOT stand for it again. Don’t SAY what you will DO, just stomp your pretty little foot and make him know you MEAN IT. No specific threats, let him WONDER what you will do, but you need to tell him I AM SERIOUS.
Good luck, and keep your money safe from him don’t even let him know how much you make. Get a post office box if you can and have your mail, bank statement etc. sent THERE rather than to your home. Or to a friend’s house. Get a safe deposit box at a bank also and keep ALL IMPORTANT PAPERS in there so that if you must leave suddenly that you will have everything with you. Have the bank with the safe deposit box also send mail to your PO box, not at home, so he can’t find it.
Good luck!
(Report abusive comment)
carrolls10 says:
Wow! What can I say …I was just passing thru after having read the sociopath next door…it was so fascinating that I wanted to know more about this disease…with that said let me tell you how much my heart hurts for all of you..
I have had the broken heart that hurt just like so many of yours I recognize it..even though mine was not at the hands of a S just your normal charming snake..but I have been looking at sites about seperation anxiety and some of you write about pain that sounds very much like this disorder so please look into this..I am wondering if in your cases that these snakes haven’t caused the seperation anxiety or was it there before them and they recognized it with their evil genuis…and someone wrote of the hormone that gives you the same fealing as love and I had just read last night on another site that they are looking into giving this to people to heal the pain and longing of a broken heart..that would be wonderful I think…I also hear a lot of you discrediting yourself but assuming that these other women in the lives of these creatures are loved more than you where..please quit beatingyourself up…I don’t believe thats true you all sound absolutely wonderfull…I think you are doing this to torture yourselves..don’t please you have all been tortured enough..please go to ask.com and look up generalized anxiety and also yourpersonality.net I believe u might glean some info that you can use to heal…I also found out that both xanex and methadone can create the same chemicals that oxtocin the love drug produces..so it might help..
Having know a man like these before pleaes remember if He sounds too good to be true then he is! Normal men aren’t that charming, and they dont offer you the world as soon as they meet you…prince charming is just a normal somewhat boring guy…keep that in mind…and don’t fall for the rush into relationship thing..when people hurry you along it is only for one reason ever they are trying to get something by you and that holds true for everything in life…you say these guys use tv to mimic emotions they dont have well maybe you should do the same…watch tv study how real men act…just plain old normal men..husbands..good guys…I know they arent as exciting but I think you’ll be happier…and for OxDrover please dont keep that attitude…go to a christian dating site and you will have no problem finding a kind christian gentleman your age..my mother in law ended up with several suiters in her seventies by doing this and picked a nice wonderfull man named Richard who wanted to spend the rest of his life in the same manner has her and she is very happy..For the rest of you who are in agony please go to those sites I suggested..for someone reaason I started fealing better once I realized that some of what I was really fealling had nothing to with the bad ex…chemicals and irrational thoughts is what they are…study it…and please all of you stay away from bad men…you dont need closure take satisfaction that not hearing from you at all is a huge blow to his ego and that is the one things these creaps do have….with that said thank you so much for givng me a glimps into how horrable these monsters are…Iwont foget it and I’m gonna be watching for them…please know that somene in Missour U.S thinks you are all wonderful human beings…you just got sucked in by someone who wasnt human…my prayers are with you all..hang in there…and remember real men arent exciting at all…….Love you all…
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Carrolls10,
Glad you stopped by! Thank you for your post! Thanks for the suggestion about the on-line “dating site” but I think I will pass on the internet dating! I’ve known too many people who got hooked up with fakes on it. Unfortunately, too many bad guys mask behind “Christianity”—so I will just wait til I meet someone in real life that I can take some time and get to know, or if no one shows up, that’s okay too! No longer feeling “needy” or wanting someone to “rescue” me from being single, I am quite happy really, and in the meantime, I’m actually doing pretty well! But thanks an yway, I am glad SOMEONE got a good one off the net or anywhere for that matter! I had a great one once, but you know, they don’t grow on trees, and are a bit rare! But that’s okay!
Again, glad you stopped by and hang around and read some articles, there is some great stuff here. I think the beating ourselves up is part of the healin process and we don’t usually stay in it for too long! ((((hugs)))) and God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
If I’d only known then what I know now I might have figured it out.
Poor Pollyanna here had NO IDEA what one of these was/is or how to recognize them.
And, although I tried to find out, the info has not been easy, in fact it seems specifically to be impossible to find out. In addition to the homework I did and a few others, what turns out to be true is not even professionals have the ability to sus this one out.
So I took things as they were happening from the premise that he was truthful, not that he was not truthful and by damn he had good answers. Even when I questioned him directly. And I did question him directly. maybe I didn’t run it all down as far as I could have, but in the heat of the moment, the answers seemed believeable and authentic.
On this case, I’d have had to know the answers first. And if I had known the profile I understand now, I probrably would have stepped away.
There is no turning back from the path I’ve taken. He writes beautiful love letters. He says all the right things. Whenever I feel weak, I go look at the dialog still visible on the web between him and other women to whom he swore those same words of endearment. I know too much to turn back now.
The battle for my future is ON and I won’t give it up without a fight. I won’t go back. I can’t. He’s fired. He is not legally my husband. He is not my lover. He is not my friend. What’s to think about?
I really wish there was a way to have known before I had the experience. Because after the experience, its impossible to understand.
Why in the blue HELL don’t they teach about these guys and women too in psychology 101 or high school health?
How will anyone next ever know what might be out there?
All there is, is to walk away shaking your head and wondering what was up with all that?
(Report abusive comment)
erin1972 says:
Silver, I can relate to the whole Pollyanna thing and I’m pretty sure it came from my mother, who has recently received the boot from my life.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Erin,
I don’t know that I can attribute anything about just having no clue about this kind of person to anything but never having learned about them.
Its not to say now, that I can’t see that I have been in other toxic relationships but I couldn’t characterize them before.
I have been and suffered miserably without understanding it wasn’t ALL me.
My part in it was to be there and allow it instead of kicking the thing to the curb.
Now, I know better. I know what to call it and I know what to look for. And I have strategies in place to slow myself down and use more than my intutition to make the decision about engaging in a relationship.
I understand that I conceived some pretty permeable boundaries as a young woman because of the emotional crap that went on around being in an alcohol driven household.
It created some results that in turn provided the self image and the inclination to fill in the story for him and back down from confrontation that he used to TARGET me.
All those dynamics have changed thirty years down the road and we’ve all done work to try to come back from the awful years. My A parent has been years in recovery and now is my most supportive family member. They understand how hard it is to break away from this thing. Together, we ae working through som HUGE life lessons around the past and reprocessing it all.
But that work fills the days of a lifetime and this is another lesson in it.
I don’t hold anyone responsible for his lies except him. He did it. Even if I loved the man I thought he was, I will let him stew in his own juice now that he is discovered. Not MY problem.
What I take away from this is a lot of information that truly I wish I’d seen before and knew before I met him. But, the way things are is the way things are.
All I can do NOW is make the decisons to find my strength, apply it to healing and LET GO of the toxic relationship.
Sure, its easier said than done in a lot of moments but its what said which bears repeating over and over. And saying such that it translates into action and accountability for that action.
The action grows out of my core values- the things I really believe in. And to get in touch with those, I had to make my own personal Declaration of Independence.
“truths which are self evident: the right to liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
If you haven’t read it lately, the Declaration of Independence carries as much truth, wisdom and power now as it did in 1776.
Ring YOUR LIBERTY BELL and set yourself free of the toxics.
I know you can and that the sound of it, will be as sweet as it will be joyful.
And like in the Christmas Children’s Story Polar Express in which only those who still believe in Santa can hear, all of us will hear YOUR bell ring and know the sound of it to be something WE all believe in.
(Report abusive comment)
erin1972 says:
Silver-all I know is that for some reason I am a huge target for these people and I am trying to figure out what made me this way. I have been odds with both my parents for most of my life. My dad was a Marine and super strict, somewhat tyrannical and scared me as a child. His job also required constant travel so he was away much. My completely smothered me as the oldest daughter,so controlling, was always punishing me and using religion to try to dominate and control me but she was a big time Pollyanna and I now refer to her as Peter Pan living in Never Neverland. She is so obscessed with religion that it’s all she can talk about and is completely out of touch with reality. EVerytime we talk or spend time together it results in fighting with me in tears. She has never understood one day in my life. They both also fought so much that I prayed for divorce and they stayed together for the kids. I used to referee their fights to prevent them from becoming violent. It was always me protecting my younger sibs from that. I am just searching and searching for the reason that I am like this. What the hell is wrong with me?
(Report abusive comment)
muld00n says:
I had a nervous breakdown two years in to it and at the height of him dropping his fascade…..I now look back and know it was my brain trying to make sense of the mixed messages and trying to make me take heed at what I was basically putting to the back of my mind. Was having alot of anxiety dreams too.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Erin,
Our stories are not exactly the same, but they are very, very much alike.
There is a lot back there is the rear view mirror.
I guess I look now and say yeah, that’s all stuff that happened. But I don’t have to make any new decisions based on those events.
I have the right to pursue happiness and methinks, I will excercise it.
First by choosing slowly and carefully
second by letting go of the the story about me that now longer fits. I am not defined by what has frightened of hurt or bettrayed. I am defined by my own accomplishments and my own decisions and third by taking care of my problems instead of adopting other people’s.
And that, is just the begining…..All I can do is the best I can. Starting NOW.
Yes its still confusing to try to make sense of what has happened. Yes it is hard to let go of my feelings which were real.
But if I refer to the facts, it just doesn’t add up. And in love, live all other things there has to be a balance that adds up. Because things really are the way they are and that equations says A=A.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
So I just goT a letter and thought it would be an excercise is SPATH speak-
From jail he writes that he is sorry for everything except marrying me and that just about knocks me over because he was already married and he sat right in front of me pursuing other women on line.
The idea that he needs me is pretty clear. He is not employed not likely to be and the desire for a safe , warm place from which to conduct his activities is a supply fix.
The desire for physical contact is self explanitory, That’s how the trap is set.
What mitigates this? The same workds could be written from an honest and decent person who ACTIONS supported them.
Were it possible to find out that all of the things he said were true and it appears that may be, the issue is what did he do?
Did he do the things a good choice would have done and the answer to that based on HIS actions is no. Not even close.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Silvermoon,
Isn’t it interesting that he “married” you when he was ALREADY married? LOL NOT! But at least it will help you get lose legally.
Yep, S-pathole speak! From Jail No less. I have a foot locker full of letters written to me from jail and prison! So this can be the first of your collection, let’s hope he is in the joint long enough to write you -foot-locker’s full!
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
As I face divorce after a 21 yr marriage, I recall the warning signs and why I did not heed them.
Push-pull mixed signals. He looked at me with attraction, but when I asked to sit next to him on the bus, he turned indifferent.
When we got engaged, the ring would accidentally scrape against his hand, and he’d attack me, blame me for hurting him, and have an exaggerated pain reaction. It was HIS ring! He was not sweet and gentle lookign to find a solution to this, like let’s switch sides walking, or how about smooth over the ring edges, or take it off. Repeatedly, I felt mortified by his attacks.
Went to a concert, buying a drink, I wanted a small coke, and he insisted I should get a large and share it, and when I said no thanks, he freaked out like I was dense not to see his brilliant point and agree. I had a horrible time, and on drive back home, he sped in the car maniacally, scaring me to death, and I felt totally trapped and victimized. But somehow, I am sure I found a way to blame myself. And the risk of speaking up was too great. I did not want to lose the relationship. I had no friends/family/home in a new country, and did not want to go back home, where I escaped after a traumatizing sexual assault and oppressive family. I was between a rock and a hard place, and I picked being quiet in the hard place.
When baby came, his raging was regular. Punchign holes in walls, calling me “queen of s**t” and other names, shaking fist in my face threatening to bash my face in. Hello! Were these subtle red flags? I think not. But where was I going to go with a new baby, a refugee mom out of a war, having no job to support the three of us–mom, baby, me? So I stay put and hoped for the best.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Ox,
If it turns out that he was telling the truth with his wild stories and it looks like it might do I go back and reevaluate his behavior?
Um, I don’t think I can look at what he did any other way- even if it turns out that the lies he spoke of both omission and comission were intended to cover up what I have since learned by his being hauled off.
This is where the mind f*.* really feels creepy.
I guess the letter says gee, sex feels good. Vacation was fun. Can we do it again. Oh by the way will you send girlfriend’s contact info- I can’t remember them all in my head….
But that part that bothers me is what turned out to be true when I was about to walk away believeing it wasn’t.
Bottom line, I will never be happy checking out to see if dirt is brown or blue.
But its all really creepy now.
History of violence not possible to obtain.
I can not assert that there is any reason to sustain where he is without spending gobs of money I don’t have so I think that situation is only temporary.
This mistake is going to be expensive no matter how it goes.
That is a warning all women should know about.
Either we pay the lawyers up the wazoo to get away from it or we;re going to pay the movers or both. There is no simple route out once you get hooked in.
Eew.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dancing Warrior,
Ah, yes, that proverbial “rock and a hard place,” or “between the devil and the deep blue sea.” Sometimes Americans tend to forget there are WORSE things and WORSE places than what we see or experience here.
When I was young, I traveled a great deal, south & central America, middle East and Africa, and I saw some things that still haunt me…people without choices of any kind. Which kid to sell to feed the rest of them? Many times in our world we forget there are other worlds out there. Doesn’t mean our pain isn’t real, but just that there are times tough choices must be made…choices when there IS NO “right” answer, just the lesser of two evils.
Not so long ago in our country some women had no choices to leave or stay, there was no place to go. No legal rights that could be enforced, even if they were “on the books of law.”
I’m glad that you are doing better now, and sorry for the situations that put you inside a place where you had to choose either “the devil” or the “deep blue sea.” God bless your recovery and lead you to peace and safety! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
OxDrover,
“rock and a hard place” yes
Now that I face a future alone after a 21yr marriage, I see how I learned and convinced myself that I am helpless, so the future alone seems unbearable.
I left parents to marry him in the US (from E.European country). I idolized him–he knew everything, was older, wiser, and he adored me. I was in heaven I thought. I had never lived on my own, and I knew NOTHING in a new country, so I’d look up to him for advice about EVERYTHING. I can’t blame him bec. back then I was totally dependent on him. He loved it that way. I was like his little pet.
Now I still have that old mindset that I am helpless. Like the baby elephants that were tied to a post, when they grown big and can simply pull the post out of the ground, they still stay there, thinking the post is stronger. That’s how I am–I am not the same as 21 yrs ago–I have made some friends, I have a job, my child is grown, and I can survive. Deep down the bogeyman tells me without him, I am NOTHING. Wow. That’s so scary! It’s an unconscious belief.
That’s my Achilles’ heel that he can poke when he manipulates my fears, and I rattle easily.
Thanks for OxDrover, ((hugs)) back.
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Dear Dancing Warrior, Acouple of nights ago I read an article in the archives, called coersive persuasion and mind-control…or something to that effect. It was written by Dr. Leedom, and it opened up a lot of questions, in my mind, but also got me thinking about why I felt so helpless, and lacked a sense of self-sufficiency…Still do, but I never had an opportunity to learn those things…and perhaps there’s a window when we are wired to learn them…like feral children, who don’t learn language at the appropriate time, never do.
I don’t think we are quite that hopeless, I think we can still learn, but it probably requires more effort, and a whole lot of courage. I think you sound like you are doing very well, even if you had a number of obstcles in your way.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dancing warrior,
Back when I would train calves to be oxen, just like the elephants are trained, when they are adults and could knock you over with their tails, they are so gentle and know in their hearts that YOU are stronger. Of course you are not, but ONCE THEY LEARN TO REBEL and accomplish it, they will never give in again. They learn from their experience.
We too, once we know that the Ps are NOT “all powerful” must learn from our experience, and we can, but I think we have to keep on reinforcing it to keep from going backwards and feeling like we are “powerless”—learned helplessness.
WE ARE NOT HELPLESS any more! There may have been a time when you were helpless, but NOT NOW! I’m glad you are free! I’m glad you are now a warrior~! (((hugs))))
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Oxy, and dancing, that artical made me reflect on some of the core issues they say affects people with BPD, like lack of identity in so many areas, (I know, here I go again) but really, how does somenone form a core identity if they never really grow up? Dancing, this probably doesn’t have anything to do with you…it’s just some of the things that I am becoming aware of in myself.
I didn’t have abusive parents, and I’m not particularly angry at them, in fact I miss them so much, but, they seemed to waiver between benign neglect and ultra control. I was babied WAY TOO LONG…I wasn’t trusted to do anything right, my mom knew best…She told me how to do everything, protected me, did for me, made decisions for me….and while I know it wasn’t malicious, I’m sure it handicapped me.
Of course, then when seeking a way out from under that control, I picked a man who seemed very strong knowledgable, independant, organized, in other words, a control freak, and just continued surrendering myself over, because I never ddeveloped any independance or confidence or self-reliance…As time went on, it got worse and worse.
How does a person form an identity, when they aren’t even allowed to decide what brand of dish detergent they like, or how to arrange their cup-bourds…I’m not kidding. My x was career military and took for granted that he could do everything far better than I could….This was the husband I left 15 years ago…was he a P? I don’t know. I know he had OCD and was a died in the wool co-dependant…and I think he was pretty high on the N scale, but, that’s not really the point. I was looking for someone to rescue me, complete me, fix me, help me grow into myself, but, by virtue of my fears, and handicapps, I choose wrong.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
I just finished watching a movie called Ike. Its about how Eisenhower made the decisions to execute DDAY.
I’ve watched it a few times an its good not outstanding from a film perspective, but relative to the conversations we engage in here, the lessons in decision making ring loud.
I have been looking at these next weeks as the battle for my Independence. I’ve reread the Declaration. I’ve been digging into military history and it comes to making and executing decisions and battle plans.
Yes, things will not go perfectly. Yes, there could be causualties of relationships or understanding about how I will be proceeding because it will be different.
But the point is, I’m fighting for something. The rest of MY life.
like the General I have allies and political situations to navigate and all the responsibility for success rests on my shoulders. So I have to think strategically and act efficiently.
I have to begin with the end in mind and know if what I have no control over requires harder fighting in some aspect of the battle, then it is up to me to make the decision to mobilize resources and command action.
In the heat of it, once the lawyers are released, I become a spectator because in the court, its up to them.
In the end, I am the Supremem Commander of my life and if I decide to liberate from the toxic emotional swamp, then by God, I’m outta there.
And so General Ox, General Dances and others, I salute you as the allies with whom I fight this battle which rages daily while I try to reconcile the new landscape into which I emerge: The real world.
Knowing you guys are in it too give me the satisfaction of observing, It ain’t such a bad place after all.
Salute!
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Then I went to the other extreme, and found the spath. I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE RESPONSIBLE ONE. He wouldn’t work, wouldn’t pay a bill, let me do a job I hated,graveyards and over-time, while he played. #@&^. If I bitched, he left, for a day or two, or a week…I hate him.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Silvermoon,
As the LoveFraud unofficial “QUEEN of analogies” and the fliinger of the metaphor, I salute you!!!! Good way of looking at it, and you are soooo right, we are FIGHTING FOR OUR LIVES.
You can take this warfare thing to the limit. I also think about the DOUBLE AGENTS that we think are our friends and allies, and they are carrying information to the enemy and planting “bombs” to blow up our territory, hurt our allies, etc.
GREAT Way of looking at it.
Too many times I have been distracted like Washington at Brandywine when the British went upriver and crossed at a ford Washingtonn thought was too far away for them to use (he had all the rest guarded) and the British sneaked up behind him and soundly whipped the Americians who fled in panic.
Washington won the WAR though, and though he lost a battle here or there, he made some hard and unpopular decisions that won him the war. The Americans were also SNEAKY, fighting from behind trees in ambush (the British thought this was a cowardly way to fight!) LOL
I realize that I’ve lost a lot of battles, but Aa long as I can still stand to fight, I can still win the war! But keeping our heads is important and not letting them fluster us is a big part of winning!
Thank you for that enlightening post!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
libelle says:
Dear General Silvermoon. Thank you so much! I could not sleep, and your post is just what I needed right now. (Looked up Con artist, and by God I escaped one!)
General Dragonfly (Libelle means Dragonfly in German) is saluting you!!!
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Here’s one for General Washington and all his gallant men
Here’s one for the pretty girl I’ll never see again
Here’s one for the darlin boy I had to leave behind
Here’s one for the Blacksmith of Brandywine.
Self doubt is the insidious double agent.
Hiding in the corners of your mind. Hiding in the recesses and manifesting in the quiet lonely hour. Over a cup of tea.
There is no way to know what is true. You may only decide and proceed. The only truth is what you decide.
There is only one way. BE STRONG.
Know that there is no such thing as a sorting of lies into the piles of which ones ar ok and which ones are not.
None of them are ok.
And when Comission ond Omission mingle, the intent to deceive is the only clear thing.
Dragonfly is a symbol of transformation. A beautiful thing.
(Report abusive comment)
conomo says:
BUTTERFLY IF THIS WS YOUR LLST DAY??
(Report abusive comment)
libelle says:
General Dragonfly reports:
1.having written the letter of dismissal to the unfair offer of the spath-”partner”, that I will not work with him ever and will reach out for other goals and wishing him ALL THE BEST for himself, his family and his future office. Best regards, Libelle (that was it)
I got lots of positive reactions of patients as I told them the truth, why I will be unemployed, because I got busted very unfairly. They all told too to not go there! One patient told me “he wants the bread and the nickel and the baker!”
I feel really relieved now!
2. having told my immediate P-boss about the Spath-Ex”Partner” and why I am not going to work there, including the nasty bits of the con: the unfair contract and the taking advantage of my naivety the P-boss was always making fun of, and how my brave sister in the last possible moment came to my rescue. Then the “partner’s” reaction of devaluing my sister and myself.
My P-boss recognized it all at one instant! A con knows a con, for sure! He got outraged! Felt sorry for me! He really put on an act of pittying me! What a show, I enjoyed every bit of it, knowing his cruel D&D-behaviour some time ago towards me. I declined gracefully his crocodile looks and his feeling sad for my shattered dreams, remembering his reptile stare some month ago. Told him how glad I was, that everything will be fine, he will see! AND I MEAN IT!
The good part of it: It is like exposing the “partner” by announcing it on the front page of the official medical bulletin of our society as my P-boss is the biggest gossip I know and every inch a badmouth! He also thinks that my former “partner” will never find a poor soul to work for him under these premises. And I made sure he got the right version of the story and not the one of my “ex-Partner” (the one of the two sour greedy spinsters).
When I asked him why HE was dumping me, he said “Maybe I got a bit tired of you?” (Helloooo????? CLASSIC P!!!). What he did not say: And he wanted his girlfriend having my post.
I will leave there in 7 days even if they offer me to stay longer! (as I got tired of THEM!)
Anyway: I had a really great evening; it is so much fun playing by the rules of P-ness sometime! As the old LF-saying goes: “to beat the P you have to become (or act like) a P”! They can’t fathom it because they rely heavily on my naivity. Thanks to all you LF-teachers. I think I just passed my bachelor in Spathology!
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
All is fair in love and War.
In your spare time, what are al the things you can do to put them out of business?
Feint priase the most damnable lie……
Living well, the best revenge.
If he hires his girlfriend, I think you have a termination suit.
Does he have enough money to make it worth being sued?
Discriminatory and unfair terminations are punishable and the HR laws are out there. The business laws are out there and the ethics are monitored by the Department of JUSTICE…..
Hats off to your ongoing strategic accomplishments!
I salute YOU!
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
Kim Frederick–
So hard to stay firm in my decision. I DOUBT myself seriously now that he is constantly emailing/calling though I told him I won’t talk to him, to talk directly to lawyer.
AND I am afraid to set a firm boundary even tell him I’ll take other measures if he doesn’t leave me alone.
I DOUBT my decision now that he’s begged me not to divorce him. It’s HORRIBLE.
OxDrover–
“WE ARE NOT HELPLESS any more!”
Yes, I know. BUT, BUT, BUT… why do I get so scared now that he’s really harassed me with non stop emails and calls and voice messages? I had a long separation, tried therapy, followed legal process–I did everything reasonably. HOW can I be rattled so easily now just because he throws his drama at me?
WHY is it SO hard for me to tell him again, more firmly, to back off or else?
I FEAR that I made the WRONG decision. I doubt myself!!!! That’s the little helpless voice, scaring me, what if you don’t make it, what if he’s not there to “help you” when you fall, what if you find yourself in a worse situation after the legal bloodshed? And I PANIC!!!!
DO you have words of wisdom? And anti paranoia?
silvermoon–
WOW–I was amazed by the power in your general analogy.
” I am the Supremem Commander of my life and if I decide to liberate from the toxic emotional swamp, then by God, I’m outta there.”
I thought I had that clarity when I went to the lawyere to get the ball rolling.
NOW? He’s screamed like a helpless child, poked at my weaknesses, and I am a blob of indecisiveness and fear. Am I doing the wrong thing? Oh my god! What if I lose the home? What if I regret this later? What if he PUNISHES ME?
Thanks for your courageous determination! Salute!
(Report abusive comment)
Zen says:
the following is from an article I found on another forum. I do think it is an excellent explanation as to why we don’t see what is right before our very eyes:
“One might imagine that such a false and superficial front would be easily penetrated, but such is rarely the case, probably because of the assumption we all tend to make that others think and feel essentially the same way as ourselves. ”
Here is the link, it’s a very interesting article:
http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unburdened-mind
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Think Eisenhower wasn’t scared? He was the Supreme Commander who had to take responsibility for the success or failure of the whoe DDAY invasion. By himself.
I do not think any great leader fails to second guess themselves nor consider the consequences. But what great leaders do is examine in detail what the problem is that they are trying to solve and keep their focus on solving the issues that interupt the solution to the problem.
OK, so now he is screaming and poking. That is an issue- not a problem because the problem is getting free. And you did something that has to be done to save you.
YOu have to decide what is right. YOu can only make that decision in small portions in the monent in which you need to make them.
When you are worried about something you don’t know the answer to, go ask an expert. Worried about the home? Talk to a banker or realtor.
The battle for your life is ON. Fight for it.
You aren’t the first commander to have thoughts about what the cost of the war is going to be or the first soldier to get scared in the think of it.
But compared to what we are going after there are men and women I know and respect some who have been through FAR worse than we.
Even today I wondered what might have been if he had been real and ended up letting go of it because I know he isn’t and can’t be. No matter how much I might wish.
But, miracles don’t come from wishing. Miracles come from God and God is no further from you than the inside of your eyelids according to Eckhardt Tolle and the POWER OF NOW.
If you never have, the cd’s are WONDERRFUL to listen to……
Dance, we don’t have to live in fear. We don’t have to live in that dark place where evil feeds on us.
We hold these Truths to be Self Evident… There is nothing in the Declaration of Independence that require either men or women to be better than they were the day it was written.
Why would that be different for you today. Whatever warts I have, well so what. That is no reason to live in a swamp.
Nuthin from nuthin is equal to zero at the 42nd power. And he has nuthin on you compared to you figurin out he is a spath.
Poor Sumbitch probrably this minute thinks he’s smarter too.
Well, get busy. Do your homework. Plan YOUR life. Betcha you’ll decide that its worth what it costs to fight for it…..
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
dancing W., been there. I too wasa ball of mush. My ex even called round to dinne with me, bringing red roses, we had sex{NOT a good idea,} hada few glases of wine, I told him “Yes, Ill come home.” Rang my parents in Scotland to tell them, I was going back to him. They were pleased,{they really didnt havea clue as to the situation as Id told them almost nothing of the verbal and physical abuse. next morning, in the cold light of day, “I thought WTF have I done?”
Quickly rang my parents again, said, No, not going to happen, its all off”. rang him at work and ssaid,
“Im NEVER EVER coming back to you.”And I didnt. Its normal to see-saw.But heres what Id do now, with the benefit of hindsight.
Change BOTh your cell phone and main phone numbers.
Change your email address.
Go ex-directory, ie, he cant look you up in phone book.
Have you heard of Stockholm syndrome? Its when we start to side with our abusers.
He WILL NEVER EVER change! Write this on yellow “post it notes, stick them up all over the house.You can write some of the following,–
You have nothing to fear but fear itself.
do it afraid.
Fake it till you make it.
Yes I can!
I am worth so much more than all this!
he is only scared of losing his “supply,” ie, you, the source of money, sex, amusement such as torturing you for fun.
They have NO CONSCIENSE and NO SOUL. so DONT feel sorry for him. he isa loser, and a parasite, and a vampire. Got that??
How can he punish you? Dont believe his lies. get a separation order, and if he breaks the “no contact,” call the cops immediately.
Dont believe his lies!1 HE IS THE LIE!!!
Good Luck, you can do this, Girl!! Love, Gem.XXX
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
Silver,
OMG poor Sumbitch thinks he’s smarter too! You are so right! You know the Sumbitch very well, lol!!
I will definitely check out Power of NOw, thankyou. But I don’t get the miracles that come from inside of my eyelids–what does that mean?
Thanks Silver.
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
Geminigirl,
Tell me about calling cops if he breaks n/c.
Is emailing or calling on phone illegal?
I thought I’d send a certified letter that I insist he not call me or email me but talk to my lawyer. That was he’s been warned and notified. Then I can tell lawyer he is harassing me–but if it is not physical contact such as coming to the house, is it still illegal if I told him not to?
Love post it note idea.
I read Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway and recognize some of those.
Thank you thank you.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Write me back when you get the part about the eyelids. I will look forward to that.
I love these……
Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.
George S. Patton
Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable.
George S. Patton
Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
George S. Patton
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
Silver,
Ok, so god is no further from you than the inside of your eyelids, i.e. god is inside of me, and I just need to stay present within me to find my answers or my solutions or miracles? Know thyself kind of? Trust in my gut feeling and honor what my soul knows.
That it?
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Bingo.
(Report abusive comment)
DancingWarrior says:
K.
I’ll pay attention to what my subconscious tells me.
Been dreaming about keys, and keys falling in water, but I won’t go to retrieve it…
But after I decided, don’t sleep, and don’t recall dreams.
Just dread of facing the morning.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Don’t forget to get the facts too M’am…
You are going to be just fine.
Don’t forget sleep.
It counts.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
libelle – Towanda Girl!!!
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
Dancing Warrior – you have said so clearly what you want, and even though he is shaking you, and you full like mush, you are resolute.
this is awesome. keep walking, big strides ahead at 12 o’clock.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
unsent letter #4 to the ppath
I hear a song that you said was ours; and feelings rise, thoughts rise…but I do not know what the feelings are….i am not quick enough yet to catch them. The thoughts jumble grabbin’ at possibilities…what am I feeling; there is no context for what happened to me.
You made a fake boy. A fey kinky boy with a girl inside. For the community. To scam us with. What did you make for me, in particular? In response to my desires?
What can I possibly be feeling? I have no context for the deception, the lies, the deceit. There is no context for your kind. That, I suspect is why tangling with your kind is so disorienting. Like being dropped off the roof on your honeymoon; you can’t grasp who pushed you before your bloodied jaw cracks open on the pavement.
If you had come into my house, I think I may have killed you. In rage. I don’t know how she didn’t come after you. I will have to ask her sometime. She doesn’t share much. Scared of strangers and wary since you worked her over. I know I am less so – I talk to the people on lf…and sometimes remind myself that I will probably never meet them – so that might make them fantasy, too. I doubt they understand my relationship to the internet. Take the sweetest funniest kindest things ever said ot me on lf and wrap them all up together and throw in some smexy – and we have what you were to me. But not quite. No one will ever be that again. And I know that should be a good thing, ‘cause you were just a lie – but you are not just a lie, you are someone gone who I loved. Crack goes my jaw. I loved a lie of a person – but what I loved does exist – it exists in me, and therefore it must exist in others. I miss him. You took him away. And I miss him.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
postscript – and so i put the song on and dance around the kitchen, ’cause i know it has not a damn thing to do with YOU….estoy aqui….
(Report abusive comment)
libelle says:
Dear One, I am with you concerning the music that relates HEAVILY on the relation-ship that wrecked! I had really get to reconnect (rewire my brain) to some kind of music and also wear specific clothes to other events for months so I was able to listen to the songs or was able to wear the nice clothes again without bad memories.
Glad you did not kill this person! (it would have ruined your life!!)
“What can I possibly be feeling? I have no context for the deception, the lies, the deceit. There is no context for your kind. That, I suspect is why tangling with your kind is so disorienting. Like being dropped off the roof on your honeymoon; you can’t grasp who pushed you before your bloodied jaw cracks open on the pavement.”
Well, dare I imagine that you are not hitting the pavement? BUT plunge with style in the deep blue Maledivian sea as you fall off the rooftop of a hut in the midst of a lagoon, and the personal butler is rowing to get you swiftly in the boat, and in the boat the sharkish lawyer is rowing too: like ambulance chasing lawyers chase “just-married”-cars!! My sister always says whenever she sees a happy newlywed couple stepping out of a church: “New arrivals to my office ahead!”
And also I think LF is a kind of a weird but wonderful place, like a mirror VERY far away mirroring the very best and the very worst in ourselves. And it helps getting clear about thoughts, letting go obsessions, sorting them out, and maybe these thoughts might help somebody else (for me LF was and IS a huge help and a true lifesaver!) Thanks Donna!
It would be really a “trip around the world” meeting all these beautiful folks in person! And one more thing: when something is IN YOU, it is unique. Do not search elsewhere! Whether it is elsewhere or not is of no importance: You already found it. (((Hugs)))
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
libelle – what a glorious post to wake up to!
it’s so funny that you mention this beautiful scene in the Maledivian sea..i watched a show last night that featured the Bahamas and i a friend from Belize sent pictures, and i went to sleep thinking about being in the Caribbean…and it was wonderful!
the only thing about it being in me and wanting it in others, is that i want someone to play with!
have the best day…all smiley over here. thanks.
(Report abusive comment)