BOOK REVIEW: Legal Abuse Syndrome
PDF “Victims are created in two ways: by violence or by deceit. Either type of assault immediately renders the victim hostage to the perpetrator.”
So begins the book Legal Abuse Syndrome, by Karin Huffer, MS, MFT. Lovefraud strongly recommends that anyone who has been victimized by a sociopath read this book, whether you have faced your perpetrator in court or not.
The book explains how people who have suffered injury at the hands of some type of predator often face further injury inflicted by lawyers and the courts, who can be, at best, disinterested, and at worst, corrupt. Legal Abuse Syndrome, Huffer says, is a form of post traumatic stress disorder caused by prolonged contact with the so-called “justice” system.
Along the way, however, the author answers many of the questions that those of us victimized by sociopaths have asked:
If I am the victim, why do I feel guilty?
Why can’t I share my devastation with my family and friends?
How can I recover from this assault?
Conscience-centered and power-centered
Huffer does not call the perpetrators of assault, and the complicit people in the legal bureaucracy, sociopaths or psychopaths. Rather, she describes everyone as fitting somewhere on a continuum of motivation between “conscience-centered” and “power-centered.” The extreme power-centered individuals, however, are clearly sociopaths.
Huffer writes:
Trust has usually left the conscience-centered vulnerable. If deception is to work, there have to be those who trust. Convergence of power-centered and conscience-centered people, in their purest forms, will inevitably result in the conscience-centered person being victimized. It is a marriage of deathly complementary value systems upon which the power-centered thrive. They literally tend a garden of trusting relationships while perpetrating hidden agendas.
Those who value truth, honesty, and a moral and ethical code make up the majority of people. These masses are the conscience-centered who collide head-on against a slick minority of individuals, the power-centered. PC’s pull out the “big guns” of moral turpitude for power motives, regardless of damage to others or society.
Of course, everyone on Lovefraud knows exactly what the author is talking about.
Eight steps to recovery
Even more important than describing the experience of the victim—”the kidnapping of the soul”—Karin Huffer offers a path to recovery.
- Debriefing: Writing down, in a particular format, exactly what happened.
- Grieving: A natural and healing reaction to the most profound loss—a loss of trust.
- Obsession: Figuring out what happened occupies a victim’s life.
- Blaming: Guilt, rage, anger and wrong need to be directed at the offender.
- Deshaming: Victims must get rid of inappropriate shame.
- Reframing: Reframe the experience with insights that empower and affirm the self.
- Empowerment: Taking ownership of the ravaged experience.
- Recovery: Emerging from victim as a veteran, with honed wisdom, courage and tools.
Huffer’s point is that it is possible to recover from the destruction inflicted by power-centered individuals, i.e., sociopaths, and grow as an individual. It is a message of hope.
Overcoming devastation
This book’s full title is Overcoming the Devastation of Legal Abuse Syndrome. It provides case studies of people who have been defrauded by criminals, lawyers and judges, often operating in cahoots. Only one case involved a typical Lovefraud story—a deceptive husband trying to cut his wife out of the marital assets. And it does offer advice for people who are in litigation with predators.
But I think the book could be called Overcoming the Devastation of a Sociopath. From cover to cover, it is filled with insight into what we have experienced, and how to come to terms with it. It is invaluable help for anyone who, after gross deception and injustice, trying to recover a sense of self.
Buy the book in the Lovefraud Store.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
OxDrover says:
DEar Midnight, YES! YES! YES! You totally get it!!!!
My problems were not because I didn’t get it so much as I would get it, but NOT DO IT. I always got sucked backk by the Siren Song.
An analogy I thought of long ago was if my sons and I were in a river and they were tots I would let them ride on my back as I swam for shore, I would drown myself trying to save them by letting them ride on my back. BUT when they are able to swim for themselves I cannot/should not do that.
It was like we were as a family in the row boat and P-son was chopping holes in the bottom of the boat, sinking it, and I just kept bailing it out as fast as I could until it sunk, then HE DEMANDED TO RIDE ON MY BACK BECAUSE HE WAS IN THE WATER. When I tried to get him to swim for himself, showed him that I could not support his adult weight on my backk and swim too, the pushed my head under water in revenge.
Yea, I got it long ago, I just didn’t DO it. I just didn’t push him and the ax he was using to chop up my life overboard and let him fend for himself, let the ax drag him to the bottom, but not drag us all to the bottom.
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Quantum Solace says:
Easier said than done!
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ErinBrock says:
This is something they do….they just do it……..
We victims MUst stand up and fight for our rights….even if we go pro se…..
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OxDrover says:
I read this book and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT TO ANYONE who has dealt with a psychopath in any way.
It covers ABUSE out of court as well as IN court. It is a MUST HAVE for your reference library.
I am developing a pretty good REFERENCE library for myself on psychopaths and am no longer “loaning” out my books as I can’t be without them, I re-re-read them or parts of them from time to time. If someone wants to borrow one, I will buy them one, but I’m not loaning them any more….besides, I think we all need to develop a “reference” library, as just as if we had DIABETES we would buy every good book on that and keep on reading and referring to them.
THIS BOOK IS A MUST HAVE FOR EVERYONE!
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gathersnomoss says:
I am a professional with a graduate degree, and have been working in my town for over 12 years. I am a proud member of this community, participate in my children’s activities, give to charity and pay my taxes.
In April of 2008 I made the grave mistake of marrying my second husband, a man whom I believe now to be a psychopath, a pathologic liar and habitual drug and alcohol abuser. The marriage lasted only 16 months (with no children produced from the marriage), and ended the day my husband was arrested in my home by the Sheriff’s Department, with their weapons drawn and against his head on an Obstruction of Justice charge. I realized then that my husband’s behavior would never change, and filed for divorce in August of 2009.
In stark contrast to my first, amicable dissolution, I have been misused and abused repeatedly by the legal system in the course of this current divorce. My own former divorce attorney ignored repeated requests, pleas, and indeed begging to help me settle the case and was paid over $26,000 in legal fees without any resolution of the case. I firmly believe that my first attorney was participating in what is known as “churning”, colluding with my soon-to-be ex-husband’s attorney to wring every last cent out of me. I apparently have the deep pockets in this case.
I paid $10,000 of my husband’s legal fees on the advice of my former divorce attorney (a friend, it turns out, of opposing counsel) without any formal order to do so by the Magistrate. I was then ordered by the County Domestic Magistrate to pay my husband $4,000/ month in spousal support, even though he has an income as a rock star impersonator in a Tribute Band (sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction). To put this amount into perspective, my soon-to-be ex-husband is paid under the table for most of his performances with very few 1099’s issued, and has a court order to pay child support for his 15 year old daughter of only $300/month, an amount arrived at using his under-reported income. So my payment per month of spousal support for a 16 month marriage is more than my husband has to pay per year for child support for his biological child.
At no time has anyone in the legal system compelled my husband to produce a single financial document in the course of this divorce, instead choosing to believe his farce of the penniless, helpless “house-husband” who in reality did nothing in terms of domestic chores, and certainly never paid a single household bill during the 16 month marriage. If anyone followed up on his records (bank statements, performance contracts) I am certain that it would be established that he has ample income to pay his own bills as he apparently did prior to our marriage.
I decided to switch attorneys one month prior to the divorce trial, having lost confidence in my first attorney, who instead of working towards my goal of settlement told me many times how much he looked forward to the “scorched earth” campaign of a heated trial. I was denied a 45 day continuance by the Magistrate, even though I was nowhere close to the one year guideline for case resolution for a Divorce without Children for my county. With everything to lose (and my husband everything to gain), I decided to dismiss my divorce charges in order to allow my new law firm time to become completely familiar with my case prior to trial. I re-filed the divorce charges May of 2010, and now have just learned that I am to pay additional legal fees of $7500 to my husband’s attorney.
This was a 16 month marriage, one that I entered into too quickly, and certainly one that I regret with every fiber of my being. I have already paid my husband over $23,000 in temporary spousal support, and my total attorney fees to his attorney will now total $17,500. I feel betrayed and used by the legal system, and feel dismissed out of hand by a Magistrate who I believe does not take the facts into consideration, and instead just rewards my husband for his lies and omissions with my hard-earned income.
I don’t understand a legal system that takes an honest and hardworking person, who is understandably vulnerable due to the circumstances of divorce, and takes advantage of her faith in, and innocence of the legal system to financially and emotionally abuse and devastate her. Where are the checks and balances of the divorce court? Who monitors the attorneys to ensure that they are working in their clients’ best interests, instead of lining their own greedy pockets? What is my legal recourse? How can this system continue in this manner while failing so miserably the people it purports to serve?
How is this fair and just?
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adamsrib says:
Gathersnomoss,
If it makes you feel better, it is also very f ***ed up in my state. I took my ex to court for unpaid child support and he played the same pity party role-the “I am uneducated and can’t make more than ten dollars an hour” role and he got away with a very small CS payment FOR A 16 YO HIGHSCHOOLER!!
Driving instruction, car payment, auto insurance payment, clothes, activities fees, food (he’s a huge boy), housing on and on and on. The whole time the SOB ex is sitting an a $300,000 inheritance from his mother and the CS agency CAN’T touch it because it is considered an asset and not income. WTF????
I am in the process of researching the will of my late mother-in-law to see if she left some of that money to my son. My ex spath is such a con, I don’t doubt for a minute he would cheat his own kid out of his inheritance.
There is a very hot place in hell for the likes of that SOB…
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Gathersnomoss,
The re-abuse (continual) of the victim in court is so twisted. I am sorry that you have had this experience….costing you both money and “emotional blood.”
I suggest that you continue to educate yourself on the psychopaths and also about healing yourself in spite of this trauma, “re-trauma and re-re-trauma!”
This isn’t because you are stupid, it is because they are cunning and crafty and 99% of the lawyers give the other 1% of honest lawyers a bad name. “Churning” my arse, but yea, sounds like it doesn’t it! God bless.
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gathersnomoss says:
Dear adamsrib and Ox Drover,
Thank you for your kind comments. I have been doing my research on psychopathy. I have attended Sandra Brown’s retreat and plan on getting training as a peer counselor once the divorce is final. I have been invited to be a guest on a radio show that Sandra Brown will be guest hosting later this month, anonymously, of course, about dealing with the psychopath in a high-conflict court case. The letter you read is something I plan to send out to local media……newspapers, TV stations, any magazines and any blogs that will publish it once the divorce is over. I sterilized all the details (county, state, type of tribute band) for the purpose of publishing to this blog, but I plan to do everything in my power to use this experience as a platform to change what is wrong with divorce court in this country. I will be sending this letter to the disciplinary council to my state’s Supreme Court and the State Bar Association, and will send individual complaints about my first, greedy lawyer, opposing counsel, and the magistrate. With half of marriages today ending in divorce I think I will be able to reach many people who relate to my situation and who believe change is not only desirable but necessary.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Gathersonmoss,
I am glad that you intend to be proactive rather than reactive. I hope it will a) make you feel like your painful experience has at least benefited others if not yourself and b) that it WILL benefit both you and others as well.
This must have been (or still is) a harrowing situation to be involved in and to probably feel helpless, but hopefully, your “helplessness” won’t continue and you can use it to accomplish changes! The “good old boy” system in politics and the court house makes me want to grind my teeth as well!
God bless and godspeed in your quest to make changes!!!
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adamsrib says:
Oxy,
How the H are ya girl?
Had a thought while reading these new posts this morn. Do you agree that many lawyers are spaths and this is why the system is so unbalanced? Maybe spaths are drawn to the legal field?
Sorry if I offend any lawyers here. I know as in any group of folks there are good people. I am wondering about this because the “legal” system seems so lopsided with “white collar crime”.
I am curiuos what you think on this because as you know I respect your opinion and take it very much to heart. You always get me to thinking whether I want to or not (menopause makes me fuzzy)!!!
AR
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
How am I? Well, let’s see, my left ankle sort of smarts today, that old injury I re-clobbered day before yesterday…..etc. LOL
Actually except for still being fat and old I’m doing well, Blood sugar and Blood pressure still good and staying with my REVISED eating plan (1200 calories) and increasing exercise each day, but STUCK on the scale at one spot! It WILL move, just got to stick with it!
Yes, I think lawyers as a GROUP are HIGH IN PSYCHOPATHS, and I think military and politics as well. With politics, look at how many are lawyers to start with, then go into politics. Corner Offices are rife with psychopaths as well– Enron, Bernie Madoff, etc.
I DO know a couple of honest lawyers, but I think they are the exception not the rule. Also any profession where there is a lot of POWER to be had. Cops is another one. We’ve talked about that here on LF before. Dr. Hare’s book he co-wrote “Snakes in Suits, when Psychopaths go to work” is a great one for everyone who is still working. I’ve seen it in hospitals and other places I’ve worked. Didn’t know what it was most of that time, just knew “hard to get along with” but as I grew to know what a psychopath was, DING!!!! I started to see the connection!
I don’t trust politicians as a group, I think too many of them are just like Bloggo, but with a “bit more class” and “manners” but ultimately underneath the polish of more manners, they are just as EVIL and selfish.
I have a friend now dating a physician psychopath who is married who has MUCH MORE MANNERS than the last married physician psychopath she dated for 4 years who abused her horribly. This current one admits he has cheated in the past on his wife until he gave the wife an STD then he confessed and went to counseling, but somehow, it was ALL THE WIFE’s fault, and THIS time he is sincere with my friend. My lovely sweet friend wants to believe him, and I sit and watch helplessly, but when she asks I tell her, “if he is cheating WITH you, he will cheat ON you.” The only difference between the two men is that one has better manners than the other, but both of them are LYING CHEATS.
My friend is very smart, cultured, very educated, world famous in her field, and above all BEAUTIFUL in body and soul, and it is difficult for her to find a man who equals her status or smarts or ability, so that makes her more vulnerable to a liar who has status, smarts, ability, and education, etc. Like all of us though, she must come to the conclusion that NO ONE ELSE CAN MAKE US HAPPY. That may mean we never have another “relationship” but hey, if all that is available is a high status psychopath, is that such a bad thing? Personally, I am quite content without a psychopath in my life, without a liar or a cheat in my life!
If I change my mind, I can go to the wino shelter and pick me out a wino that will marry me—any day I choose I can have one of those. LOL Hummmmm? I think I’ll pass.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
I suffered abuse not only from a sociopathic emotional relationship but one at work as well, mostly from one sociopathic/narcissistic senior manager, but also from the way this well-known Wall Street firm treats “undesirable” employees as well.
I was laid-off immediately upon return from short-term disability. Interestingly, this was one week after meeting my x-spath…
Prior to being illegally terminated, I suffered various retaliations and threats, all while the firm knew I was quite ill, but still functioning well in my position.
I was lucky to seek counsel prior to my termination, as this did give me some sense I had some rights and protection. This was 2 years ago.
However, despite the facts in my case and my evidence, which included legally recorded and quite damning conversations, settlement of my case has not occured.
I have not talked about this much here but I intend to as my case is nearing its end-game, one reason being I am nearing the satuate of limitations for several of the charges.
One thing I learned is that even with a strong case, the legal process is slow moving. In addition, the little guy is very much facing a David vs. Goliath situation.
More to come…
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Ox Drover says:
Dancingwarrior, I saw your post on the other thread but couldn’t read it as my browser is air card and won’t open a thread with this many comments. Hope all is well, just wanted to touch base with you and let you know I am thinking of you!!!!
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DancingWarrior says:
Oxy, I said:
DancingWarrior says:
Legal news:
I got a packet of stuff after the motion to compel. Missing info on prior employers’ retirement accts and what happened to the $ from there, and another recent employer’s pension, also his expense acct.
My fin planner is back next Monday to look this over and then tell me what else to get (17th).
My lawyer said he asked to have a four way before pre-trial. What could I gain by that?
Would you guys tell me what you think on this:
He emailed if i’d mail him his insurance reimbursement check. My insurance won’t make checks out to him since I carry the ins. I kept one of these in lieu of c.s. before. I actually emailled him back to send me June and Oct c.s. and I’d send him his check. He sent Oct c.s., not June. I sent him his check which is bigger than c.s..
Am I stupid for not keeping it? I didn’t want to play tit for tat.
Also I sent my lawyer a list of joint expenses I want him to split around $4500 for daughter’s camp, sports travel, driver’s license/car insurance, and house maintenance bec. trees were rotten about to fall on house. He doesn’t even say boo aout that, and here I am being fair and sending him his check. Is that dumb?
And he sent a NEW fin. affidavit that now lists that he wants half of my tax credit bec. I filed separately as head of household and claimed child and house payments. Is he even entitled to half that?
Gosh, I am hoping that my fin. planner can help me add and subtract and calculate all of this somehow so I just don’t have to haggle and bicker about ANYTHING.
Why do you all think he insists on having a four way meeting before court? Could I go to hear what he has to say, and simply get up and leave if I am not interested? In an ideal world it would be best to negotiatte and reach an agreement. In reality, he’ll think for number one.
Went to D’s game today. I’ve missed ALL her games this season bec. I’m afrraid of seeing him–emotionally I fall apart. I had to pass by him face to face, and he smiled and nodded walking with two moms, and I didn’t just kept walking. It’s very awkward.
Question on timeline — Planner gets papers on 17th, I meet with her on 21st to go over plan–provided she has all info needed, then court 27th. From 21-27th–will that be enough time to prepare for court?
I can’t shake the sadness and grief. I am consumed and just can’t break through. Legal papers in the mailbox crushed me–it’s all about money and it’s over. I hate the whole thing. I become little and want to run back and have my family, my home, my…yes..husband, my security, my identity, life as I knew it. I am TERRIFIED of going into the darkness alone and just so forlorn and lonely.
No one to call up to just hang out and do something. Only therapist once a week–doesn’t sustain me the other six days. I don’t know how I’ll make it through to the end.
Any support here much appreciated.
Thanks guys.
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Click to EditRequest Deletion
Saturday, 9 October 2010 @ 6:07pm
DancingWarrior says:
P.S. Got court notice for a date re. motion to compel. He already sent most of the stuff. This is for the 18th. Should I still go to court if stuff is missing? Can I use this to also make him pay c.s. directly from his paycheck or is that a different subject? Would it be good to just make him look bad and go to court anyhow?
I’ll have to ask my lawyer, but wondered if any of you knew how to deal with this motion.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Dancingwarrior,
“Am Ii dumb to have sent it back?”
I won’t answer that on the grounds it will INCRIMINATE YOU! LOL Darling, you are TRYING TO PLAY FAIR with the viet Cong, with the Taliban, with Hitler, and so on….DO NOT KEEP ON TRYING TO BE FAIR!!!
Fighting DIRTY is the ONLY way to be “fair” with these creeps!
You know we’re behind you, keep pressing the lawyer, but QUIT trying to be “fair”—no I don’t think he is entitled to any part of your tax return and he doesn’t think he is “entitled” to it either, it is just another UNFAIR ATTEMPT to put you on the defensive.
GO FOR THE THROAT!!!!! TOWANDA!!! And my Prayers!
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DancingWarrior says:
Shaking head.
Why don’t I have a mean bone in my body?
I get mad for two seconds and show teeth, but then I’m a little pussy cat again. I don’t stay a fierce tiger able and willing to pounce.
It’s the belief that he’s my “family” and my old conditioning NOT to confront or stand up to my family even when they aren’t nice. That’s the achilles’ heel he knows how to use.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
DW- how about getting a protective bone?
he’s NOT your FAMILY. family are the people who love and care for us – who act in our best interest; for god’s sake, snap out of it.
one step (shakes head and looks for her own skillet)
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adamsrib says:
DW,
He IS NOT your family. He is your ENEMY and you never let your enemy know what you are going to do. Ever. Just do it.
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adamsrib says:
Oxy,
I gave up on the scale for that reason exactly. I use a BMI read out to gauge my progress. When I plateau I raise my calories (up to 1350) so I am not so hungry and exercise more with a different routine-bleh!! It NEVER ends Bleh, bleh!! Hang in there you are on a good path.
I had an inkling that you would say this about lawyers. I had the thought after I posted my question to you that yes they do go on to become judges and politicians and policy makers so they can convolute to system for their own good.
Just like the STOOPID
I love that word of yours, law here in my state that says my ex can”t pay the CS he owes out of his assets (hahahaha I know what you are thinking Ox) because that is not considered income. A PSYCHOPATH created that law!!
Wow I really feel for your friend. Sounds like she has a lot going for her and she is on an emotional treadmill. That is sad. What a waste. Ironically, she could probably find happiness with a blue collar type quicker that someone of her own strata. Makes me realize that what could I get??
HaHaHa I’ll meet ya at the wino shelter Ox 
Seriously I am concentrating on making myself happy. The hell with these weird spath guys. Since I have embraced the gospel of the Sociopaths in Our Midst, I have had luck helping my girlfriends identify their own spath problems. For a loooong time we were stumped until I came on here.
Thank God!!
Thanks for the insights Oxy, I always can count on your wisdom.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Dancingwarrior,
GROW A MEAN BONE FOR THOSE TRYING TO HURT YOU AND YOUR OFFSPRING!!!
One, here’s my BIG SKILLET, whomp her from the left, I’ll hit her from the right!
DW, I’ve let “family” walk all over me like I was a door mat, and I do know about that feeling of “keeping the peace”—but THIS IS ABOUT SURVIVAL!!!!!!
Now, you go for the throat!!!! GRRRRR!!! Me, and One-step are behind you!!! and when EB shows up she will be too!!!! (((hugs)))))
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Got the left wing oxy!
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
I have two sets of stairs inside my barn from the ground floor to the second story, and two sets of “half” steps from my deck to the ground, so I have stairs for both wet/cold weather inside the barn, and for nicer days, so I am using the stairs as exercise equipment.
Went out today and went up and down the deck stairs until I was out of breath, did a bit more than yesterday. Sticking to the FOOD plan and it is coming along, but have hit that plateau where I am not losing weight any more….it takes time for our bodies to adjust just like a thermostat to the weight it wants to keep “steady” so will just have to increase the exercise until it decides to stop hoarding fat and give it up again! Can’t let myself get “weak” and “give in”—I’m gonna be HEALTHY if it KILLS me! LOL
Just have to apply some of my “wisdom” to MYSELF! That’s been the problem all along I think! Taking my own advice is harder than giving it to others! LOL ROTFLMAO
Yea, I dearly love my sweet friend, she is GOOD TO THE BONE, but I can’t save her, only she can save herself from the consequences of believing in a psychopath when she knows they are lying.
But, hey, who am I to throw stones at anyone for “believing the lies”? I’ve done it all my life over and over and over, and it is only by force of will I am not doing it TODAY! There’s not a STOOOPID mistake been made by anyone on LF that I haven’t personally done as bad or worse, so not criticizing anyone else for what they have done! Just that TODAY I am doing better! TODAY I am revising my food intake, my exercise, and my healthy choices in other ways! Just for TODAY! And for TODAY I feel good about myself, so I think I will put off our meeting at the “wino shelter” for ANOTHER TOMORROW! But not today! LOL
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adamsrib says:
Whew!! Did not want to go to the wino shelter (wiping her brow)
Hey Ox thanks for your kind words on my response to Consantine (he is awesome isn’t he/she?). I am humbled.. that coming from you…salam, salam, (I extend my arms and bow)..you are the post meister….thanks Ox..
I am better today versus yesterday. Menopause is kicking my BOOTAY big time. I have suggested to Donna an article on the vulnerability of menopausal women and the lure of sociopaths. She has sent the idea to Dr. Leedom . Hope she writes it!! I have been emotionally loopy lately, not able to do the research right now. BTW, I LOVED your article on the Snake Oil Guy. I think he’s my oldest son’s dad hahahaha…seriously, Ox every post you write is like a mini-article. You are the WOman!!!
BBE: THANK YOU!!! for saying that meeting your spath has been a blessing in disguise. Had I not got involved with Grandpa Gym
I would not be en guard today with this menopause emotional stuff. My skillet is primed and ready!!
(((Oxy)) back at ya girl
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Adamsrib,
Darling you make my head SWELL! Thank you so much, I’m glad you appreciate my humor and my “snake oil” article. Yea, that guy just pushed my BUTTONS and I got furious at him! Of course I am laughing now about the peel and sticks on the dog’s face!!!That has got to be the funniest sales pitch I have ever seen!Q Yea, I think it was your kid’s dad, come to think of it, they ALL RESEMBLE each other!
Boy, am I glad to be through with the menopausal thing…back in my day we took the hormones (probably will kill us sooner) and that did help! The first REAL hot flash (power surge!) I had I thought I was DYING on the spot. I think you are right too, that the hormonal changes we have do leave us more vulnerable. I used to have PMS sooooo bad! And went from homicidal to weepy in a twinkle and back again, for about 3-5 days a month I was WORTHLESS. As bad as being preg was, it at least kept me from having a period and those hormonal flip flops which were terrible.
The emotionally loopy can be from the menopause or from PTSD, depression, stress effects or any number of things, but with all of the possibilities, there is no saying you can’t have them ALL, just cuz you have one doesn’t mean you can’t have 2, or 3 or 4! Isn’t that a happy THOUGHT! LOL
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adamsrib says:
Ox,
Not just a load of bull puckey my dear, I sincerely mean it. You help a lot of people from that keyboard of yours. Hope you know it and give yerself a pat on the back from time to time. Which is ok when we “Walk in Beauty, Walk in Balance”…
I hear so many gals on here say they are an emotional mess due to the spath in their lives. Add the hormonal stuff and what a keg of gunpowder. Yikes.
And these guys know EVERY button just like that Snake oil dude. My son’s dad was a carney in his youth and I could not help but make the connection because they ARE all cut from the same bolt of putrid cloth!! (spaths NOT carneys ).
Better say g’nite. I am wrecked!! Sleep tight and don’t let the bedbugs bite and if they do, shoot em!!
My mother used to tell us that when we were kids
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DancingWarrior says:
I’m not into skillet behavior modification.
Let him have his insurance reimbursement check. Why do I need to sink in the gutter and play the dishonest game?
I can influence the situation by not participating in the cycle of one-upmanship. I wanted my kid to participate in sports. I wanted her to be able to drive. I paid for it. Fuck him if he won’t be a responsible father.
As for my feelings of sadness. These feelings are true for me and real for me. This is my loss, and this is how I experience it. There ain’t no shortcut, no button to turn them off.
Shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance–everyone goes through grief in their own way…and this is mine.
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Ox Drover says:
Thank you, Adamsrib, I don’t doubt your sincerity in the least! And I do give myself a pat on the back from time to time, but at the same time, it takes a COMMUNITY here to stand behind us, and I have GOTTEN wayyyyy MORE from this community than I have given back. Each of us contributes to the WHOLE and the whole is what helps us survive and thrive.
Your mention of the “carneys” reminds me that many of the people who follow a nomadic lifestyle in this country do so because they wear out their welcome in one area and move on to another. The traveling carnival life, or oil well drilling life, long haul trucking, or whatever presents a living with a nomadic life style is a perfect cover for psychopaths because they can do their evil and then move to another area with fresh victims. Of course nomads are not all psychopaths but that kind of life IS a good “cover.”
G-nite!
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adamsrib says:
Dear Dancing Warrior,
I understand exactly how you are feeling right now. I have been there, I am still there in many ways.
You are wondering why you need to “sink in the gutter and play the dishonest game”. There is nothing at all, at all dishonest about protecting yourself and your little one.
Every time you strike back you are sending a message that he cannot hurt you any more. It is form of positive/negative reinforcement. Each action teaches him he cannot scam you. This is the only game he understands and if you don’t do it first, he will.
It is honorable to take the high road when the one we are dealing with is wired right. When they are not, it is not safe for us.
Sometimes we do have to just allow our self to feel the pain, to ride the wave of despair but when it threatens to snuff out our Light, then we must act to hold on with everything we’ve got. Like I said, I have been there. I still am. It ebbs and flows and probably will for the rest of my life.
Next Friday I have an appointment with my Dr. for a Rx for an anti-depressant. Not only will it help my sadness but it will give my boy’s mother back to them.
These candles are lit for you DancingWarrior (((iiiiiii))). I am holding you up to the Great Spirit who sees all and knows all. Blessings to you, dear one.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Dancing,
Darling I was not meaning to say that you should SINK TO HIS LEVEL, but at the same time, don’t be easy prey either! I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings if I did. Of course we all experience our grief in our own ways, but money is money and if you had “his” money and were at the same time owed for CS then I think you should have kept it in lieu of the childsupport.
YOu don’t have to become a predator and attacker, but be a defender of yourself and kiddies! God bless and my prayers for you ****hugs)))))
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CAmom says:
.
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gathersnomoss says:
Dancing Warrior,
You are absolutely right. You need to grieve in your own way, on your own timetable. I had a terrible time dealing with the betrayal of my husband, and learning to accept the fact that the man I had married was a mirage, that nothing, NOTHING about him was real. But what you can’t do is just lie there and continue to expose your jugular. It’s hard for women like us to get angry, but you need to protect you and your children. It seems daunting to be on your own again, but consider it a huge leap away from pathology and towards your own mental health and freedom! As one of my partners frequently says….”If if doesn’t kill you it will make you stronger!” I’ve been dealing with this mess for 14 months, and while I still have bad days, the trend is positive, and compared to a year ago I’m a different person. I’m stronger, and certainly smarter. I pay attention to my red flags, and NO ONE will ever take advantage of me again like the scum bag did!!!!
I just had a court date 2 days ago for a status conference/ scheduling conference. The psychopath has been staying out of state, mainly with his new victim, a woman who he met on a millionaire website (where he met me!!), who is a veterinarian. He had the nerve to bring her to the courtroom with him. I left from court to go to work, and when I got home my dog was gone (invisible fence). This dog was his prior to the marriage, but he abandoned her. He has had a total of two half-hour visits with her in the past 14 months, and has given me no financial support for her upkeep, food, vet bills, etc. He is under a restraining order to stay off my property and is not to remove anything from my property. I filed a report with the sheriff, and since I am not allowed to contact him because of the mutual restraining order I had the sheriff call him (to confirm that she had been taken, not run away). He did not answer, so I was able to find the veterinarian’s cell phone (from the months that I was forced to pay his cell phone bill) and the sheriff called her. She admitted to having the dog.
Doesn’t it seem odd that a veterinarian would aid and abet in dog-napping?
If he had gone through the court and the court found in his favor, even though I believe he does not have the right to this dog anymore because of his abandonment, I would accept losing this animal that I truly love.
But he broke the law, stole her from my home, and didn’t give me or my 11 year old son a chance to say goodbye.
I think I will be contacting the Veterinarian Medical Board in the state in which the vet resides to inform them of her part in the theft and criminal trespassing. Any other suggestions? Perhaps making a complaint to the local newspaper in her town, or the Better Business Bureau????
Any suggestions are welcome.
But I digress.
Hang in there, Dancing Warrior. You are not alone. You will get through this. You will be whole and strong again.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Gathersnomoss,
What a wonderful post of support for our DW. Thank you.
As for the Vet helping him to steal your dog, go for the throat!!!! That was totally illegal and more than anything IMMORAL. It wasn’t that he really wanted the dog (or he would not have abandoned her) it was he wanted the VET TO THINK he did. So deprive you and your child a chance to say goodbye, and then STEAL the dog—great way to accomplish two things, hurt you and impress the vet.
I think since she admitted to STEALING the dog, I would file CRIMINAL CHARGES OF THEFT (a felony). And since HE got someone ELSE steal the dog and to go on your property, HE IS ALSO GUILTY OF VIOLATING THE RESTRAINING ORDER (by proxy) AND RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY (a felony). Don’t wait too long to file charges or the law will ignore them.
That ought to make the divorce judge take notice. Good luck. (((hugs)))
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adamsrib says:
CAmom,
What wonderful advice!! Going to Starbucks. Thank God for Starbucks!!
What a horrible experience with the ex shooting himself and all. Sounds like you have been through HELL my dear.
Thank you for your wise words CAmom!!! Reading your post comforted me in my own melancholy.
Adamsrib
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DancingWarrior says:
Thank you all for your caring posts. It is moving to hear your stories of courage and endurance.
Adamsrib,
Good luck with the help you get from the Dr. and the Rx. Your boys do need their mommy. Thanks for the candles, that is so sweet of you.
Oxy,
I have been defending myseld, girl! You shoulda seen me in the garage with a screwdriver, on a ladder, changing the remote control combination and changing the locks so he can’t get back in. I call that putting up the gates and defending MY and my kid’s turf. Inside I am a big mushy softie and I melt in a puddle at the smallest “boo”. But…I have held my ground in demanding fin. documentation, and hired professional help if I’m unsure how to interpret it–not to take advantage of HIM, but to make sure he doesn’t take advantage of me and the kid. As for the missing c.s.–it’s only one month at this point, and he’ll have to pay it, despite his shenanigans and creative accounting to explain how he’s already paide me more than “statutory child support” he loves that word.
CAMom,
Big (((hugs))) to you for the scary things you’ve lived through. I am so glad you are okay and I can’t imagine how terrifying. Thanks for your support–I like the idea of just getting out there in the world, even Starbucks. I am going back to school now, and as hard as it is with work, and lonely as it evokes memories of the honeymoon past when I was a hopeful young bride in a new country, disoriented, alone, and he was my shining armor protector…it’s lonely to walk the campus and be a different woman. But being in a community of classmates may help forge new friendships maybe.
Gathersnomoss,
I am sorry that he took your dog. Good luck with whatever recourse you can have with the vet. And thanks for your support.
DW
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Ox Drover says:
DW, good girl!!! Protect your turf!!!! You do have the RIGHT to protect yourself! (((hugs)))))
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adamsrib says:
DW:
you made my day…
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ErinBrock says:
Warrior:
If somehting YOU allow doesn’t make you comfortable…..change it.
It’s not about making pattycake in the gutter.
If you are dealing with unreasonable…..you can’t be reasonable.
Decide on what you want the ‘outcome’ to be…..and find your adamant to make that happen!
Your in it till the duration!
There is no sense losing 20lbs, just to gain it right back again.
Change your ‘habits’…..for life.
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Hopeforjoy says:
Dancing Warrior,
I understand that you don’t want to change the ‘core’ of you to fight the spath, and you don’t have to. Just stick up for yourself and your child, know that you have to protect yourself from spath with all your courage and strength. He will take and take without remorse. Don’t change the beautiful parts of Dancing Warrior that make her special and unique, that’s not what this is about.
Care enough about you to know that this man, who you thought would protect you forever after, will NEVER protect you. He is out for himself alone. He was a fairy tale, albeit an evil fairy tale.
You can stay true to your belief system and still fight the spath!
I am also going back to school, hope to have my degree in Human Resources in two years. I love the ethics of it and want to protect employees who have been victimized by spaths. Although I won’t be putting that on my work applications!
Stay strong, we have your back!
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ErinBrock says:
Gathernomoss:
I hope you filed a report! If ‘she’ is going to do his dirty work….she must be prepared to get muddy.
You can put a STOP to this through her…..teach him you can’t be messed with, on any level and will report ALL violations.
My spath periodically sends dupes to stalk us…..I report ALL of them and they quickly run. When he ‘sends’ them they don’t realize ‘who’ I have become….they think i’m easy….I”M NOT!
It not only runs them off…..it creates a message to him throguh the police.
I WILL FOLLOW THROUGH.
Go getem girl! Get rover back home where he belongs.
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gathersnomoss says:
Dear ErinBrock,
I have filed a complaint with the local Sheriff’s office, and hope to get him prosecuted for violation of the civil protection order, and her for theft. I posted a plea on the local craigslist where she has her vet practice, gave her name (apparently a no-no) in hopes to raise some public outcry. Have already received a threatening e-mail from her, claiming that I am “unprofessional”. I’m just trying to get my dog, a valued member of my family back. My attorney is filing a motion for contempt, and I will be filing a complaint with the state board/ veterinarian association about her theft, as well as notifiying the local law department in her town. I don’t know what else to do. I don’t think I’ll ever get the dog back (and she was the best dog I’ve ever known), but I’m not just going to lay down and let them abuse me over and over. I’ve just started a battle with her, I know, but I’m in the right with the law on my side.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear Gathersnomoss,
You may never get your dog back, but what they did is theft, and is breaking the protection order, and I am glad that you are serving them notice that you are not going to lie down and take more abuse.
I hope that you can get your dog back and it may take the court to order that, but hopefully you can at least get some respect (if not fear) out of the vet and your X that you will not lie down and play door mat to them.
YOU GO GF!!!! TOWANDA!!!!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
gatherneomoss – good for you. go after them both legally.
bet she feels like she’s been used, acting in ‘hi best interest’; maybe she will start guarding her reputation bit more closely.
and i suspect that may be coming home to you.
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ErinBrock says:
gathernomoss:
Kudos’ to you for finding your adamant!!!!!
Its not about ‘starting’ anything…..it’s about FOLLOWING THROUGH.
Two choices……lay down and keep being stepped on and feeling cheated…….or stand up, report it to the law and take NO prisoners!!!!
Careful about the postings on CL…….and DON”T ENGAGE with her directly.
How far away is your dog located?
Can you go there during bus. when noones home, hours and take your dog back?
Take the police with you,(IF they will go)?
each time the spath would break into my home and take stuff….I’d head right on over to my rental where he stayed, when I knew he wastn’ home…..and take it back!!!
Ya gotta be careful though……I owned this property……he had no actual rights to it…..and i’d go in the middle of the night……so no neighbors saw……I disengaged the motion lights so they didn’t work and I’d park around the corner…..total recon mission!
I’d wear black and a beanie…….it’s funny to think about now!!!
But….yeah…..you can only do reverse spathback IF…..your certain NEVER to be caught and NEVER lead a trail back to you.
Like he took ALL my fine wines……my whole cellar……he’s a boonsfarm connoseur…….so i bought some cheap shiat…..and swapped my wine out with that…..he never knew.
I took my kodiak bear rug…….he had it stuffed in a hefty bag…..I stuffed the same hefty bag with old comforters and sealed it right back up…..he never knew……
I’d take digi pics of ALL documents in the property…..his calendar, financial records……
One time I even took his trash, which he had torn up (his idea of shredding) pin numbersand id’s for accounts….
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
He never suspected!!!
I took photos of his ‘drug’ bro’s wallets they left in the bedrooms…..with all id’s to give to Police……
A wealth of info…..
AND I took the cash in the dressor~! For payment of my ‘time’!
He blamed his bro for stealing his cash…..that was a great backspath to him……
I took cash a few times…..not much but a few hundred……
and each time he blamed his bro……it split them due to the accusations!
HA! BACKSPATH…..all the tactics back on him!!!!!
Anyays….got a bit carried away……but i’d use all means legally to attain posession of your dog. Also…..I’m assuming you have shot records or licence on the dog…..if not….legal means could be difficult……may need to resort back to dognapping right back at him…..
AND THEN go get the dog licenced IMMEDIATELY!!!!!
And change all vet records into your name only!!!!
Good luck……your doing the right thing!
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