Sociopaths are filled with empty promises that never turn into healing action.
PDF Recently, I ended up in the hospital twice over a short period of time. (Which accounts for why I have not posted here in awhile.) The first stay was to have surgery to remove my gallbladder. The second was a week later when they had to perform an additional procedure to remove the stones that were left behind.
The man in my life was there. He supported me. Held my hand when I was in pain, rubbed my back. He drove me to hospital. He spoke with the doctors. Involved himself in my health care when I was too sick to care to ask the questions I needed to ask. He ensured I was well cared for, ensured I had what I needed to recover. He came to visit me in hospital. Sometimes I’d awaken and find him sitting by my bed, reading the newspaper, holding my hand. He brought me what I needed and when it was time to come home, he picked me up and tucked me into bed at home. He cared.
What a different reality than the surreal world of being with the sociopath. When with the sociopath, I had to have knee surgery at one point in our relationship. He promised to drive me to the hospital, and never appeared. I took a cab. He promised to pick me up and bring me home from hospital and I had to call a girlfriend to come and get me as they wouldn’t let me take a cab by myself (which I was insistent I could do). Whenever I was sick, he’d promise to bring me ginger ale and I’d go thirsty. He’d promise to take care of me, and find 1,001 excuses for why he couldn’t turn up. And I let him off the hook every single time.
The reality was, his words were empty promises that never translated into healing action. And in my blind faith, my misplaced love, I’d deceive myself into believing his inaction was not his fault. I’d make the unacceptable acceptable by telling myself, ‘it’s okay. He’s got lots on his mind. He’s busy. I shouldn’t feel hurt by his inattention. He loves me.’
To quote Sir Walter Scott, ‘Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.’
In that relationship I desperately wanted to believe what he was expressing was love. I desperately wanted to believe he was my shortcut to happiness and so I convinced myself his inaction was not important. His assertions of undying love were what counted most. Truth is, lost on the road to hell, I was blinded from the truth of what he was doing and what was happening to me because I was fixated on believing he was my Knight in Shining Armor and couldn’t see he was truly the Prince of Darkness.
In healing from that debacle I know, promises mean nothing unless followed up with action. All the empty promises in the world cannot make dreams come true. Empty promises cannot turn up in times of need, they cannot rub an aching back or hold a trembling hand. Empty promises cannot be filled with love.
Once upon a time, I gave my heart to a man who was untrue. He is gone. In healing, I have opened my arms wide to the joy of loving a man who turns up when he says he will and is there in times of need. I am blessed.
written by M.L. Gallagher • Permalink •
peggywhoever says:
neverneverland, OxDrover:
I love the list and your categorizing it.
Here are a few others, some of which I have gleened from Tricksters http://www.infowest.com/busine.....sters.html
They have few (if any) friends
They seem “too good to be true”, overly kind, generous, and offer to loan you money (and as you mentioned in #1 above, the immediate push for exclusivity in a relationship)
They don’t have much of a sense of humor, and if they do they seem to laugh at other people, never at themselves
They cannot tolerate ANY suggestions or criticism; their authority must never be questioned.
They are are often fitness oriented, as they need to maintain their image.
They love to draw up and sign agreement contracts as a way to help “protect” you, i.e., wills or life insurance
In addition to lying (#8 above), they tell half-truths, and/or evade direct questions.
They rarely accept responsibility for failure. They are always the victim, it was always “somebody else’s fault”.
They spend a lot of time on the phone and the computer, and you are allowed access to neither
They seem very secretive or paranoid about business/finances and personal matters
Nothing about a S surprises me anymore.
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FinallyFree says:
I wish I had had all of these lists before. I am absolutely not ready to date yet… but I am thankful I will have such great guidelines when I am. Thank you to everyone!
I am working through this slowly. I love being able to come to this site whenever I feel weak. He started pulling out all the stops the past few days, bringing up songs we used to listen to together, parts of movies I loved, and tons of flattery. Where was all of this while we were dating? I have been writing down all of the nasty things he said and did to me… reading anything that gives me hope for a normal future is really appreciated. Thank you again to everyone posting, it gives me strength.
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OxDrover says:
Finally free–
DON’T LISTEN to a word he says. NO CONTACT. No conversation…you know it is all a lie, all a bait to catch you back into his web…STAY STRONG, he only has the power you give him. Don’t give him any control over you….take it ALL BACK! (((hugs))))
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alohatraveler says:
LilOrphan,
I am glad my words speak to you. It helps me to write them.
)
Dating… OH DATING! Not really doing it but I should.
Who was it that said that they write down the bad things that their Sociopath said? That’a great idea. I saved a few horrible emails from the BM and specifically, I saved a nice little sequence he sent after I left. One was a long letter about how he “get’s it now” about how people “do life”. He was big on framing things as if he was somehow learning to lower himself to our “pop culture” standards as he saw himself way above this being a former Minister. This, of course, would make me go nuts! Like he is learning my skanky ways….ARGH!!! The whole email was some kind of back handed… I don’t even know. Then, a few hours later he sent a complete FLIP FLOP email attacking me and I believe one of the lines was something like… NO NO NO NO… NEVER NEVER NEVER.
He is SOOOO Borderline. I swear.. I think the Bad Man is ALL three with nothing left out: Borderline, Narcissist, Sociopath. My first “diagnosis” pointed to him being an “extreme” Borderline because the literature said in “extreme” cases, rages lasted days but usually only a few hours. His rage fits lasted 48 – 72 hours. For me this meant for several days, a barrage of hateful, vicious email.
BAD MAN! YOU ARE SO BAD! YOU REALLY SUCK!!!!!
I never said that before. It was childish and yet… Fun!
Anyway, I am being silly.
It is a great idea to write down the horrible things they said. We want to forget them but part of the struggle to get over them sometimes is that we do have lapses in our memory where our mind tends to drift to the fanstasy they created and we start to forget the reality of it.
I have a little story about this. It just so happens that shortly after I returned home from Maui, a friend of mine was breaking up with a guy that I think was BM Junior. She started revealing stories about the relationship and I was recognizing that his tactics sounded quite familiar… hmmmm? She had to leave her “island” too. She had been living in a small mountain community and had to leave it because she was afraid. This was devastating to her and she still misses her mountain life. One of the things her Bad Man did that mine didn’t do was punch things and use aggressive posturing that scared her… now fast forward to at least a year later. My friend is visiting me. We are in the kitchen and she is at the table. She is starting to go down that road of missing him. She is over there at the table blah-blahing about how much she misses this psycho so I did something… While she was yapping away about missing her psycho, I suddenly slammed my fists on the counter and shouted, “F—ing Melanie!! (not her real name). She jumped in her seat and then after a moment of silence she said, “Oh yeah. I forgot about that.” I said, “I know.”
Her Bad Man wasn’t as verbally vicious but she was physically scared of him. But she had a tendency to forget about that. This moment I re-created was a moment that she had told me about long ago.. One where he slammed his fists on the counter and shouted the exact same thing I said.
Anyway… I still have a file with some horrible words he wrote to me. I haven’t looked at them for a long time. For a very long time, I wouldn’t let go of his bad emails because I was still trying to figure out if he did something illegal to me and/or would my emails serve as some kind of evidence for someone else… to back up their story. I don’t worry about that anymore and the Bad Man seems to have gone silent for awhile I haven’t seen an ad on CL for a long time. Perhaps he has finally found another woman that will put up with as much as I did so he is busy happily abusing away.. or he got his butt kicked by someone’s big Samoan Uncle.
One never knows.
Aloha
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alohatraveler says:
Okay… that was mean. I don’t like to think of anyone getting beat up… not even the Bad Man. But I wouldn’t mind if he was in jail.
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LilOrphan says:
Woke-up about 20 minutes ago thinking the same thing you wrote: that I need to reread my journals because the craziest thing happens…time passes and I completely stop seeing the bad. Like it just didn’t exist, emotionally, though logically I still carry vague recollection.
That makes me feel brainwashed, somehow.
You, or anyone else, find this bizarre phenomenon to be your reality, at times? That you almost utterly dismiss the bad things without even batting an eye?
My closest friend hasn’t been around much the past few months. We did reconnect over the weekend, though. She was always good for reminding me of the bad…like you, slamming your fists against the table, she’ll often mimic the things he said to me. Over the years she got tired of me trying to figure out what this hold was…I know she, like my kids, just wishes I would meet someone who is consistently good and kind to me and leave this memory in the dustbin of history.
Life can’t have been meant to play out this way, wasting all this time and love on an illusion when there’s surely someone worth giving it to who will reciprocate fully.
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jules says:
ox drover and never never; and others thanks for your replies though ox dover i think you adressed my questions answers to free but its cool i got what your saying which is the main thing. i agree with the list and yes i dont really want to test him that was not the right word to use. the only thing i was not agreeing with was that they want sex right away cause my s path was onto that, and he made out he was not in a hurry cause i wanted to wait till i was sure so that one doesnt work they just pretend its ok to wait for sexual intimacy. i am a bit scared of getting to know this new friend, that is what the s path has done to me made me a bit paraniod. which is a shame. i would say having there phones locked would be a big sign. and if they dont like their parents much or dont have good relationships with them doesnt seem normal to me. i am concerned i got a phone call this evening and was rushing out so didnt answer it no number was showing on the caller id it was my home ph not many people call me on it but the s path does. i hope it was not him glad i didnt answer in case it was, he often would get in touch on the long weekends and public hollidays. now i am worrying. i got caller id put on my ph fo rthis reason so i could tell when he called me and know it was him. but now i think maybe he blocks it. probably not hes too busy conning the new victim. thanks all great blogs.
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OxDrover says:
I am of “mixed emotions” in many ways when I have a friend who is a “repeat” victim..who goes from Bad Man to bad man, and if you lined up 10 nice guys and 1 bad man would go for the Bad Man like a homing pigeon.
I had a friend once who did just that, and when her bad man started beating the crap out of her, she would send him to jail, then come over and cry, then bail him out the next day.
Eventually, I told her “I am your friend and I love you, but you are chosing to repeatedly go back and take back this man after repeated abuse (and prior guys just like him) and when we are together we WILL NOT talk about how he has treated you.”
Our friendship went down the tubes when I would no longer commiserate with her about what an A-hole he was (when he was in jail) and agree with her (when he was out) what a nice guy he was. Looking back now, with 20+ years of Ps under my belt and me doing the SAME thing, just with my P-son, instead of a BF, I actually don’t know any more how I should have handled that situation.
She eventually quit her secure and great job of 22 yrs, married the creep and moved with him out of state. Since then I lost even information about her.
I look back on her situation in light of what I know now, and I still don’t know if I did the right thing or the worst thing I could have done to her under the circumstances. Of course she didn’t want me to really “help” her and nothing I could have said, I believe, would have made her see the light as she was deeply in the FOG. I do think though, that is why many people say “oh, well if she didn’t enjoy being mistreated she wouldn’t stay”
I KNOW for a fact, she didn’t enjoy the abuse, but like me, there was something I thinkk there that kept her in the fog for so long—one P after another. I pray for her and hope that she eventually got and stayed out of abusive relationships.
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FinallyFree says:
LilOrphan,
I know exactly what you are talking about. Sometimes I feel like things are “normal”… normal being I am with him and pretending nothing is wrong. I used to “compartmentalize things”. I would “put things away” instead of dealing with them. I could move on from anything. I caught him in bed with another woman our second year into dating, and it was like I dis-attached from myself when we got back together a month later. Looking back I don’t know how I did that! Why I did that… He was my first love, and I had fallen hard. I was a mess over him, and desperate to make it work. I would overlook things like they never happened. By this year (after five years with him) I knew I needed to finally break free and be myself again. Get away from the shell I had started to become.
I visited a palm reader this year after I broke up with him in September (before I lapsed in January). She looked at me and said the man that you just got out of your life needs to stay out, he is making you dead inside. I felt so sick. She hit it right on the head. You can’t supress pain like I was doing, like I am sure we have all done, for that long. It eats away at you.
He complimented me on my resilience once… I was like one of those punching clowns.
I can appreciate your closest friends role in your life. I am that friend for a lot of my friends… I remember every little bad thing their men did. If they start to fall back I remind them. Not in a “shove your face in it” way, but a “you’re better then that” way. Its amazing that I went through so many awful things with my s. But I would be in any guys face in a heartbeat if they did what he did to me to any of my friends. I am very protective of the people I care about.
Sometimes as I am working through these feelings after breaking things off, it is too much. I find myself floating above it. Then I quickly pull myself down, I can’t risk being in that state anymore. He would always talk me down into his reality… instead of mine.
So to say I understand what you are talking about is an understatement. And you are right, life is not meant to be lived this way. We will find that great guy! I know it…
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FinallyFree says:
OxDrover-
Thank you for your support the other day… it was just what I needed! Its like he knows when I am starting to heal, but I am fighting it now! I feel stronger every day.
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OxDrover says:
Finallyfree,
I am glad to be supportive, I know how much it means to be validated by someone who has “walked on those coals” and knows how hot they can be. I do hope that you do stay strong and go through this worst of the healing phase and pass on to some peace about it all.
I can recall how crushed I was when I kicked my BF-P to the curb. I cried for days, missing him, hating him, loving him, wanting him, and …well, you know the drill…LOL
I can promise you though, that “this too shall pass”–it will get better and the wounds will scab over–just don’t “pick’em off” and start the bleeding over again..I got that Tee shirt too!
I had wiser heads than mine tell me to STOP! But I didn’t want to hear their warnings, and I am glad they didn’t give up on me and I finally got the message. I know you can do it, because I did it–well, eventually I did it–but life is GOOD now and the healing is far enough advanced that I am not in pain any more–from any of them! I’m not only post menopausal, but POST-P, AND DEFINTELY PMS–Puttin up with men’s stuff! LOL Really just a joke I don’t hate men, just P’s. have a good day!
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tmassar says:
Hi all. FinallyFree, reading your posts made me think so much of my own situation – the desperation to make it work and the ability to somehow compartmentalize what was happening. I haven’t posted since mid-March, when I left my husband.
Since then, things are both simpler and more complicated. I did move out into my own apartment, and I’m changing jobs (which has to do with him only insofar as I’m trying to move on, regardless what happens..)
The odd thing is, he has asked to remain in my life, ceding to ALL my demands – therapy, more help around the house, more transparency (he had an emotional affair which triggered a breakdown in me and forced out all these past issues and led me to believe he has some very narcissistic traits, if not a full-fledged disorder.)
He has done a complete 180, and I confess it is freaking me out. It has been about 3 weeks – we see each other on the weekends, and he visits here at my place once a week, as we try to work things out. He says that it’s true, he realizes he has been verbally abusive, that he has neglected my needs and treated me unfairly. My problem is, is it REAL? Can someone who truly recognizes these things be just pulling the wool over my eyes? He is doing ALL the right things, supporting my career and all my independent decisions right now, with no signs of envy, jealousy, or insecurity. He’s being the way I’ve always wanted him to be. Is this real? Or is there another shoe that’s going to drop? Could i have misread him – perhaps he’s not as bad as I came to believe? I would never, ever stay for more abuse – NEVER. But the way things are right now – it’s literally perfect. But i am terrified that i’m repeating a pattern. At the same time, he has NEVER before confessed that he did treat me badly. He has not tried to make excuses or back down from this. Is there hope? My mother is so hopeful – that my leaving scared him enough to make him realize he couldn’t take me for granted anymore. I know both my sisters fully expect that he will relapse – they don’t trust him or the situation.
We are to start therapy next week (took us a while to find someone), he will know the right things to say in there – I think the real test will come when he’s with me. I’m ever more fearful of being disappointed again, especially since, judging from his behavior, he is damn capable of being a decent person.
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OxDrover says:
Tmassar,
THE BEST INDICATOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR.
I don’t recall all the “details” of your relationship with your X, and some people do show more “traits” than others do–some are VIOLENT and some not, some are physically abusive and some more emotionally abusive.
ONLY YOU can decide about what kind of “abuse” he dished out to you in the past.
I too “believed” my son’s REMORSE for killing the girl he killed in cold blood (and still enjoys remembering how vicious and horrible it was) but he had me BELIEVING for YEARS.
I’ve believed a lot of “remorse” and “repentance” scenarios from various Ps through the years—who knows, you may win the lottery, the odds are only 13, million to one, and who knows, maybe your X is really not a psychopath, but again, I think the ODDS are pretty high—
The one thing I can suggest though, is that there is a CLEAR boundary that ANY signs of abuse, name calling, hateful behavior, malicious behavior or EVEN ONE TINY WHITE LIE is a THIRD STRIKE, YOU’RE OUT OF THE GAME FOREVER.
Personally, for me, I wouldn’t believe or trust him for maybe 20 years of PERFECT behavior, and then I might, maybe, possibly start to trust him a little bit.
In the end, the decision is yours and yours alone, but we will be here if you guess wrong and need this place again. Good luck and God Bless you, I wish you all the best and I wish you well…I really do hope that things go well for you and him, and maybe I am too DIStrusting, but ONCE BURNED, TWICE SHY.
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Ariadne says:
Hi Tmassar,
It’s so good to hear from you! I had been wondering how you were doing.
Again, I know how you feel on this one. I actually ended up getting back with my ex (sort of ) 2 times. After we broke up, we started something like what you are doing, seeing each other only on weekends, on my request. He was being really nice to me during that period. I think the reason is he was afraid of losing me. They go back into wooing mode to win you back. I think the reason he never admitted the abuse before was because you never left him before. He thought he had you for good. He needs a new strategy because you are getting wise to what he does.
At that time in our relationship, after the weekend arrangement I decided to go back with him “for a trial period.” As soon as he thought I was with him to stay, he started with his old patterns again. In the beginning it was subtle but the last straw was when he got the flu. He was really making such a big drama out of it, calling relatives and friends(!) to come visit him and all the while treating me like his nurse/maid. He thought he had me by then. It was on a holiday and he completely ruined that holiday for me. I didn’t go anywhere, not even to take a shower so I could take care of him. I bought him medicine, brought him to the doctor and even gave him a freaking sponge bath. Then, when his fever got worse (he was piling on two comforters to make it so) he blamed it on me. He said if his mother had been there she would have taken better care of him. That was enough for me. I was gone the next day.
I had so wished he would change and I wanted him so bad to be the man I knew he could be with other people. That is the sad part. You know he can be nice to you if he really wants to, but he wasn’t nice to you for the length of your marriage. It is not their natural state. Being kind takes too much effort for an N to sustain because they never learned how to do it sincerely. They only know how to put on a show, a quite convincing show, but a show nonetheless. Unfortunately, I think your sisters are right to be skeptical.
But like Oxdrover said, whatever you choose, we’ll be here to listen. Take care
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rblue says:
Hello everyone its me again playing the whole stupid role. He got me AGAIN!!!!! Then ofcourse when all seems to be going okay….the other woman emails me a email to send to him regarding money he owes her. Then it started back up with her saying that he is calling her begging her back, telling her that he made a big mistake and he doesn’t want to die alone. Ofcourse he denys all of it and says he “HONESTLY” hasnt spoken with her in almost a month. I am so much in the triangle that I JUST DONT KNOW WHO TO BELEIVE ANYMORE. She has proof in the beginning but now neither one has proof…just words. (and frankly words arent meaning much lately) He says she is pretending to be my friend to get info that she is just playing me for a fool. I am the fool…I am being played by both I am sure. Why is it I can just forgive and forget as if nothing ever happened and when it happens again I find myself just doing it again…forgive and forget!!!!!!!
I should just get a tatoo with a welcome mat placed on my forhead since i seem to let anyone and everyone just walk all over me.
He does this whole why cant u once stand by me crap….If you love me….be on my side once and stand up for us. He says that she wants what we have so she will do whatever to destroy us….she said he told her as well that I just want what they have…that they will always be close. (yes he denied that too) But he honestly makes me feel as if I am doing something wrong for listening to her and then to him and then not knowing who to believe. Makes me for guilty because I am doubting him…..says that I am his one and that we are going to get married and such…even said he wants to get married when he comes down here for a visit (then will go back to his state til his transfer goes thru) just to show that we are one.
Honestly both of them have a point in everything they say to where it really is hard to dis-believe either of them. Dang I am sooooo gullible….!!!!!
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OxDrover says:
RBLUE,
My dear you say “it is hard to dis-believe either of them”
WAIT A MINUTE HERE!
Turn that statement around and look at what you have said.
He had LIED TO YOU REPEATEDLY,
WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE HIM?
I can give you the answer–because you want so desperately for what he is saying to be true that you keep brushing away the instincts of your gut that tell you he is lying, and who knows, she may be doing some lying too, but the BOTTOM LINE IS that you will never get the truth out of him.
HE IS THE LIE. HE__IS__THE__LIE. Say it over and over and over, until you finally GET IT WOMAN!
Quote: ” i seem to LET anyone and everyone just walk all over me”
Look at the word in all caps–LET–that is the critifcal word here. YOU LET this happen because not doing it is for now, painful to what you want to believe.
The truth IS painful, but the TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.
ONce you are through the fire of the reality of the truth, you will be pain free, but as long as you LET people walk on you, you will be in pain. It is your choice darling, we can’t make it for you. You just have to put on your “big girl panties” and make your choices.
We’re here for you when you need us, but all we can do is to hold your cyber-hand, you have to live your life. (((hugs))))
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FreeBird says:
RBlue,
I agree with OxDrover…you MUST follow your gut that tells you that HE IS LYING.
I know that it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL….I finally and for the last time, kicked the S out of my life, ONLY 13 DAYS AGO.
Reading your post, as with so many other posts, I can swear that we are all talking about the same man….the same lines, the same fake devotion of marriage, the same “you are the only one and will always be the only one, until I die”, the same “you are EVERYTHING to me, I cannot bare to live without you”, the same “YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT than my life”….well, I can go on and on. Very, very classic.
Trust me, I am hurting immensely inside for all the deceit and grieving the loss of “all our dreams together”…. each day is an upward battle of dealing with so many emotions. HOWEVER, I KNOW that THESE SAME EMOTIONS ARE GOING TO LEAD ME TO MY PATH TO HAPPINESS….to FREEDOM…to FINDING MYSELF AGAIN….to FEELING NORMAL AGAIN.
MY ALTERNATIVE, which is the situation that you are in now, was to continue to feel MANY of the same emotions (anger, grief, resentment, etc), and NEVER FEEL ANY BETTER…..Continue in this crazy tailspin of his crazy games/lies/cons……which was driving me absolutely crazy (didn’t know if I was coming or going somedays) and would have UNDOUBTED driven me TOTALLY INSANE, when all was said and done.
I have and will continue to turn to my cyber-hand support EVERY DAY….read EVERY DAY….I will survive….and trust me, so will he….you are not the problem here. Try not to wilt to his LIES of true devotion to you….they are ONLY LIES…he has proved that to you before…..this YOU KNOW (deep inside) is TRUE ….. HE IS A LIAR, period.
CHOOSE TO LIVE….FOR YOURSELF RBlue….i know I am….and it already feels better.
Big Hugs and YOU CAN DO IT….Trust me!
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almost_free says:
Tmassar,
I was shaking my head while reading your post, saying ‘no, no, no, don’t do it!’ We can read and read and read until we can’t see straight anymore about what is happening to us with these s/n/p’s, but then when we get entangled with them again, all that we have learned goes out the window. What they do best is manipulate us. It was my wedding aniversary yesterday and my husband sent me an email noting it is our aniversary, with a sad face after it. I immediately started thinking, ‘oh, maybe he’s actually feeling sad. Maybe he sees the error of his ways’. But, NO, it is his way to continue to have power over me, to plant the little seed of hope in me, so that he can crush that hope soon after. And, that he did. The next email were the changes he made to our divorce settlement – I will not be getting what I asked for, as in his eyes he should not be “overly generous”.
It is all so painful. I am reading the book ‘The Emotional Rape Syndrome’ which someone recommended on this site. It is fantastic. It is unfortunate that emotional rape goes unpunished. We are left to recover on our own. They rape our souls, but we can be restored.
We each have to learn our own lessons and make our own decisions. I am so grateful for this blog because even when we continue to make poor choices we can come hear and know we will have the support and help of this group to get us through.
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LilOrphan says:
RBlue :
You know when a triangle ceases to be?
When you snip off your line. Then it becomes a right angle.
Snip the line, Rblue.
Then sit back and watch as the real fun begins: without your part in the drama, the N will explode all over the OW. Their relationship is held together by you holding up your end of this sick triangle.
Drop it. You can, you know. Free country, free will, free YOU.
Let them go all right-angled and then let their lines collapse into each other. They need someone to play their sick game with; you don’t need THEM.
Hugs, love and strength to you. Don’t let them do crazy circus acts unless you paid admission and find it entertaining.
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OxDrover says:
Congratulations almostfree and freebird,
Good for you both, I know it is tough but the first step has been taken to your freedom ladies, and you are on your way to being FREE…we are here for you…
Rblue, listen to these ladies, they do know what they are talking about. HE IS THE LIE.
Come here when you need support or strength, otherwise you will continue to hurt. I am a nurse and I kind of think of it lke lancing a large abscess–filled with corruption—painful, and won’t heall until you grit your teeth and lance it, but the pain is over quickly and the healing starts, it will NEVER heal unless you empty it of the foul things within. Until you can empty yourself of the foul evil in this man you will continue to hurt and hurt and hurt. The pain of NC (like lancing the boil) is small compared to a life time of pain and illness of the soul. (((hugs))))
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alohatraveler says:
rblue,
What I would LOVE to see is you AND the OW both drop the game, just like that. Then he would have no one to play with.
I do not know a single married couple that started out in a drama such as the one you describe. This is not how solid, secure relationships begin… two women battling over a man that is playing them both against eachother. This is absurd.
I mean really… do you REALLY feel loved by this guy? Or are you just being seduced by your THOUGHTS OF LOVE? I can say this because I DID THAT! Wasn’t it a month ago that he was going to rush right down to your town and marry you? He is still promising that? Do you really think that once he does, everything will be peaceful like after the eye of the hurricane? But even in that peaceful eye, take a look around at the wreckage.
DO NOT ENTWINE YOURSELF WITH THIS MAN! You are lucky he has not married you and you are struggling with your thoughts of this man while you are NOT married.
Let this man go. Imagine that he is a kite flying high, swirling around in all kinds of turbulant winds and you are trying to control it… and then you c-u-t… the string. Bye-bye Bad Man. Cut the string, leave the triangle, close the door, hop on the bus Gus, make a new plan Stan.. just set yourself FREE.
Getting married to a manipulative disordered dude will not make your life for you. You will not live happily every after. You will have MORE problems.. not less.
You are lucky that you are struggling with these revelations about this man now.. before you are legally bound to him. He knows that being married means a lot to you so he will forever dangle that sh-t covered carrot in front of you. Sorry about the bad word but you have to get it…. what he is offering looks pretty bad from where I am sitting.
The sooner you put this behind you the sooner you can work on loving yourself to the point where you will not accept this kind of bahavior from a man ever again.
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alohatraveler says:
rblue,
For your entertainment. I think you could use a laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKcY_DNF8aY
Come on now… cut the string and let the Bad Man fly away…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..weeeeeeeeeeeee
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LilOrphan says:
“that sh-t covered carrot”
Speaking of great metaphors earlier, this one deserves a special achievement award. That’s exactly what they offer to us who want marriage, a partnership, the real deal…that’s what they dangle.
Don’t apologize, it’s perfectly APT.
I wanted so much to marry my S, as I’m sure you all wanted with yours. I spent over ten years thinking he was the only man I would ever want. You know, if he hadn’t still been talking (or more) with his ex, if he stopped playing games with my head, if he stopped moving goal posts, withholding his thoughts, affection, time and everything else, that’d still be what I wanted.
But that’s NOT going to happen. He is what he is and he never really loved me. Every time I say it, it still hurts, but it also carries with it something undeniable and beautiful in its own way: it carries the truth . Which is something he would never give.
Shit-covered carrot. I really like it.
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rblue says:
Thanks I need all this reallly I do…reading everything here it gives me the idea and the want to leave him alone….we havent spoken since tuesday. He tried a couple times yesterday but I missed the calls and didnt call back. But since then he hasnt called or emailed. Now the other woman has. She said that he called her telling her to stop sending me things because it just upsets me. (cause im not talking to him) then says that he must be in our emails……and said that he drives by her house and such. He has told me that he will show up here if I dont talk to him…but he isnt calling now so maybe he will be done this time too. He did say that he was getting tired of me going back and forth and not trusting him enough to stand by him. So maybe he is done. He lives in another state…but came bought a ticket to come here once without my permission and then we made up so it was okay to come here. So i wonder if he would really show up….that would be a waste of money wouldnt it??? Plus i threaten to call the cops if he ever did show up…maybe that will scare him enough not to do so….
I cant say it enough that I am soooo greatful for this site. Im sorry that I cant quite give advice yet since I myself dont know what i’m doing half the time lol…. But you are all wonderful ladies and I do hear every word u say…..i just have to actually listen to it know!!!!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Rblue,
Be strong my friend, he is LYING, USING, MANIPULATING. He gets off on having two women fighting over him. Whatever you do, do NOT answer the phone, if he shows up at your door do not open it. Call the cops.
He will NOT “give up” easily, he MUST BE THE ONE TO DUMP YOU, if you dump him and go no contact he will be “injured” because HE is NOT IN CONTROL. It is all about CONTROL and sexual supply at his command—you are an OBJECT to him, he thinks he OWNS YOU, just like a SLAVE….or a dog and you have to do his command or he will punish you. One minute he is calling you in a sweet voice “come here sweet doggie, I love you” and as soon as he has his hands on your collar, he is beating the crap out of you for running away in the first place.
Every time you hear from him, don’t listen to the message, don’t answer the phone, delete the voice mail do not listen to it, don’t read the texts or e mails. Block his e mails so you won’t be tempted, or don’t open them if you can’t block them.
At this point, ANY contact, voice, text, whatever is NOT GOOD. There will come a day when you can stand up strongly and spit in his eye, but not yet—you need to heal first, to get the sound of his voice out of your soul. To give up the fantasy that he is telling the truth. When you start to slip, remember the things he has said to you that were nasty–THOSE WERE THE TRUTH, the only truth he can tell.
Just like the guy with the dog that ran away, he is just trying to appear nice to get his hands back on your collar and the BEATING is coming, believe me. Don’t go near him. Protect your self. Call a therapist, a shelter and speak to a counselor, do something for support for yourself and your child! But whatever you do, be strong, stay away from this man, he is EVIL. You deserve better. Listen to Aloha, and the other posters they are telling you the truth, they have been through this and we all have.
HE IS THE LIE—-chant it over and over! (((Hugs)))))
By the way, speaking of “standing by someone”—how has he stood by you? EMPTY PROMISES ONLY. HIM not trusting YOU? Give me a BREAK—PUKE—he is the one that can’t be trusted and he is projecting all these things, these EVIL things, that HE IS on to you—but only if YOU LET HIM. Take back your power, throw off your chains of slavery to this liar, break FREE. We are not possessions.
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LilOrphan says:
rblue:
This is part of a much larger essay that you can probably find by copying the excerpt and pasting it into Google. The whole thing is too long, but here are some thoughts to consider, a way of measuring his behavior:
“Take him at his word. If he doesn’t speak lovingly, he doesn’t really want to be with you-let him go. Life is too short to spend it trying to get someone to love you. He either does or he doesn’t, and if he does, he’ll either show it, or respond to your pleas to learn how. If he doesn’t, get out before your soul is damaged further. If it’s not safe to leave, go to a shelter! Stop wasting your life feeling bad, guilty, and stuck. You are beautiful and deserve to be loved, respected, and you will find it by insisting on it, and teaching other people how you are to be treated. It is a privilige, not a right, for others to keep company with you! Make him earn it with sane, sober, civil, sweet behavior.”
It is a privilege to be a part of someone’s life. Not only am I saying it is a privilege for someone to be in relationship with us (of any kind) but also for us to be in relationship to them, if they are sincere, good human beings.
He is not honoring that privilege. He is hurting you.
My S hurt me many, many, many times. The final straw was the night he told me in no uncertain terms that he did not love me. And he smiled while he said it, smirking as though he had just revealed the biggest master-stroke of genius ever created.
But you know what?
He did me a favor. No, not on purpose. He did it to hurt me, but ultimately hearing him say those words to me and enjoy the pain he was causing cemented the demise of our association.
He didn’t love me, but I do love me. Enough to save myself for someone better. Enough to keep looking for someone who will also love me.
Do you love yourself? If this were your sister, mother, daughter or best friend in your shoes, what advice would you give?
If you don’t know right now, because your S has made you feel unloved, unlovable and unworthy as they all try because they are small, pitiful, jealous toads…we understand. We’ve been there. Hang out here and we’ll help you through to clearer place where you’ll not be tormented anymore.
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rblue says:
okay this is where I am confused, he says he loves me and does things to show he loves me…sends cards, sends money….does things for me…his last trip he had alot of car maintenance done for me and is constantly wanting to do more for me. He says that is what a real man is suppose to do. I know I mention the other woman alot but if you put the three of us on the phone or the three of us emailing back and forth he totally sticks with me and says to the both of us he loves me. She ofcourse says that he says different things when its just him and her talking…..so am I mis judging him by calling him a sociopath since he isnt taking money from me or using me for anything…i mean my credit sucks, i live in a very average apt…drive a very average car and there is no money coming to me for anything…..could he just be a liar from the start but now wanting to prove that its me that he loves……okay am i being really crazy right now for even thinking this…….he isnt tried to call me now since tuesday and well why is that bothering me….ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im hopeless i know
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OxDrover says:
RBLUE,
Some but not all sociopaths take money from women/men. Some USE MONEY to BUY control. “I gave you money, therefore I can control you” “I do nice things for you, so you have to let me control you.”
IF HE REALLY LOVED YOU (He does NOT) he would come there, take you and your child and care for you—sending a few bucks and fixing your car does NOT make him a caring person. He is just playing a GAME between you and her. I do not doubt that the woman is telling the truth. Even if she weren’t, this man is NOT YOUR FRIEND, HE IS NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU, he is trying to CONTROL you, anything “nice”he does for you is just “bait” like a fisherman casting a worm out for the fish to bite—-IT HAS A HOOK IN IT, and when you swallow the bait and the HOOK, he will tear your guts out and you will be in worse shape than you are now. DO NOT TRUST HIM.
Even if 99% of what he says is true (and it isn’t) but if it were, the other 1% is a lie, and the lie is like rat poison.
Rat poison is 99% pure good corn meal, but the 1% that is not is POISON AND KILLS THEM. So think of what he says as like rat poison. There may be 99% truth, but that 1% will KILL YOU.
Regardless of what he SAYS he is not ACTING like he loves you. If he did, he would not be treating you this way, you would not be unhappy, he would actually BE TAKING CARE OF YOU, but he is NOT doing that. He is lying, he is talking, but his actions say he is a psychopath.
No, you are NOT hopeless, you are normal and you want to believe, but it is time that you faced the unhappy truth, this man is TOXIC and messing around with him, even listening to him is like playing with a rattle snake.YOU WILL GET BITTEN. It is not a question of “IF you get bitten” but WHEN and how bad. Please for your sake and your child’s put this snake down.
He does not have to be a serial killer or a thief to be a psychopath—everything you have said about him makes him definitely a psychopath, so why keep asking yourself over and over? Because you want to believe he is not, but it is time to face the truth my dear—you can refuse to face it, but either way, what happens is what happens because of the choices you make.
Sure, he hasn’t called, he is playing coy, wanting to make you “miss him”—all part of the game. Quit while you are ahead. (((hugs))))
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LilOrphan says:
rblue:
When words and actions don’t align, always look to actions for the truth. His words say he loves you, but keeping this other girl around…
It’s called triangulation. And it’s what psychopaths and sociopaths do. They just…do. Don’t ask me why. I can’t begin to wrap my head around it.
Look at the MSN Narcissist boards (google them, too) and read as much as you can at Lovefraud. Both sites are excellent resources.
He has turned your head upside-down. They are masters at getting us to distrust our own feelings, eyes, beliefs and to believe them regardless of what we’re seeing or feeling. We end up for a time believing more in them than ourselves.
We can’t diagnose him, but if he’s lying to you, if he was involved with someone else and hasn’t made a complete clean break or was involved behind your back, that’s not loving you or treating you right.
There are good men out there. I think.
Spent too much time on the bad one to know this for certain. But I totally suspect there are great guys out there who don’t cheat. My ex-spouse never cheated, for instance. Not that he was a great guy in every way….but…still.
As my boss says: there is a bar for acceptable behavior. We cannot call lying and being with others acceptable behavior. So, he’s not even meeting the minimum standard requirement for respectful behavior.
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shabbychic says:
All your words really speak to my heart… but I have to ask a question no one can answer… when will I start to feel better? Here it is, over 3 months, and I am still crying. I don’t want to be here by myself, I’d rather my N was here, I just do not want to be alone, I hate it. I can’t get over the fantasy of the good times. My entire self-esteem was wrapped up in being with him. There is no me.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Chic,
My dear I wish I could answer you, but I do know that there IS A YOU. A very IMPORTANT YOU. I’m sorry that you feel right now that you have given this over to the N, but you can gain this back. I too, gave myself to others, gaged my own self worth by what others (the Ps) thought of me, but now I am blooming on my own–feeling better than I have ever felt in my life. I too cried for months, I too didn’t want to be by myself, but slowly, I found out that I am wonderful company for myself. Being alone is not the same as being “lonely”–and right now you obviously feel lonely. But you know as well as I do that being with him wouldn’t really make you less lonely.
Come here often my dear, read, learn and post for support. It will help, you will get better, the “time” in days and hours, weeks, I can’t tell you, I wish I could (((hugs)))))
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LilOrphan says:
Hey Chic:
Of course there’s a YOU. There was a you before you met this guy, right? That’s the person you were for all those years before he came along and while right now it may not even slightly resemble the person in your mirror, she’s still inside you.
How was your entire self-esteem wrapped up in being with him, or rather, what exactly do you mean? Can you try and explain?
For me, my self-esteem was eroded from being with him. He had parts and times where he was excellent, a great friend, he took me out often, did nice things for me around here, he wasn’t totally bad.
But the cost was extraordinary: for every nice thing he did, he did something hurtful, too. Compared other women to me, told his friend in front of me that we weren’t dating, criticized me out of nowhere, said nasty things, called me a psychopath and other things out of nowhere, introduced me to other women as his “friend” when we were supposed to be together, told me he “was a good actor” shortly after saying he loved me…just really hurtful, crazy stuff, culminating in the last night I saw him where he dropped the big bomb.
All of that eroded my self-esteem, at first. Because it’s impossible to rectify the good guy with the bad guy doing all the seemingly deliberately mean stuff. And it took literally MONTHS for me to discover through abuse websites that this was a form of emotional abuse.
Then I found this site.
It took awhile, but I do finally own the part I played in all of it: I didn’t complain as it happened, let things go, didn’t hold up my boundaries, didn’t ask him kindly to stop (not sure if he could stop, even if he wanted to).
Fundamentally, though, I know he’s not ok, between substance abuse and other demons. I also know there’s tons of work to be done on me and that’s all I can fix.
Bottom line, though, nothing I did made him treat me that way. He started early on, just as he did all the other times we were together – weird comments, verbal abuse and yelling, and it escalated from there.
Nothing you did caused him not to treat you well. It’s not a reflection of your worth; it’s HIS issue. All of it, the lying, the games, the keeping OW on a string….whatever he did was about HIM, not you. All you own are your reactions.
You are worthy. You deserve love because you are a human being who deserves to be treated well.
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alohatraveler says:
ShabbyChic,
This experience will grow you a lot if you open your heart to the lessons. Recovery does take time. For me, I have learned a lot by looking at who I was BEING.. during my time with the Bad Man.
Healing does not lie within him. It lies within you.
You will stip crying at some point. Think of this time as an investment in yourself. This is, by the way, a far better investment than with a Sociopath.
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alohatraveler says:
rblue,
You were feeling all strong when you thought you were ignoring him but now that he seems to be ignoring you… you are starting to slip. Hmmmm.
You still want him to want you. He doesn’t want you. He wants to control you, torment you emotionally, and see you writhe in pain.
Get your head around that and you will be GLAD the phone isn’t ringing!
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LilOrphan says:
Ha, as usual aloha said in two sentences what I was trying to get to in paragraphs:
“This experience will grow you a lot if you open your heart to the lessons. Recovery does take time. For me, I have learned a lot by looking at who I was BEING.. during my time with the Bad Man.
Healing does not lie within him. It lies within you. ”
So true. Time is the only way through these things and there is some emotional backsliding for everyone. It’s amazing how much better you feel when you get away from the P’s influence on your feelings about you. They project a whole lot of nasty, negative garbage….and we’re really good at internalizing other people’s feelings. Which is great in some ways (makes us more empathetic humans) but awful in others.
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Beverly says:
I have absolutely no feelings and barely no thoughts for the exN WHATSOEVER. I am sleeping through, my energy and zest is returning. When I think how I was 8 months ago (check my writings new ladies), I was distraught, torn apart with grief and anger, mourning the gaping void he left. Now that is all gone and I am truly feeling like I am moving on to better things. I saw him recently and wondered why did I ever give him a second look. I have got my head screwed on properly now! I got good news that the tumour was stage 1, so treatment will be radiotherapy. I want to thank you all so much for your support through those months of hell. But there truly is an end to it, IF you stick with no contact. Anyone who attempts to drain or exhaust me or take from me or abuse me will not be granted entry into my life. Period. Anyone who leaves you feeling exhausted and doesnt add value to your life is not worth your precious life energy – that is what I have learnt.
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OxDrover says:
BEVERLY!
Fantastic news about your tumor!
Also fantastic news about your healing! You are an incredibly strong and vibrant person and it has been my pleasure to get to “know” you.
Your resolve to keep the toxic ones out of your life is what we all have to make and CARRY THROUGH, listening to our inner self, our gut feelings, and not ignoring the red flags when we see them. YOU are an inspiration to us all. ((((Beverly))))))
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Ariadne says:
Dear Beverly,
You sound like you are in a good place! Congrats about your improving health and well-being! It’s so nice to see people here slowly progress and it is wonderful to read posts like yours. I’m sure you’ll recover very quickly because you sound really confident and hopeful. It’s like a rebirth isn’t it?
When I was with my N, I started getting digestive problems, high blood pressure, varicose veins and my hair was actually falling out! I thought I was doomed to die early. I’m sure if I had stayed with him, I would have. Now my health problems are completely gone. With just a little self-care, I feel like a new person.
Continue to care for and love yourself, Beverly. You are a strong woman with a new lease on life.:)
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alohatraveler says:
Thanks LilOrphan,
I think I get my one-liners from my Dad. He’s in AA and he says they call it __________isms. (I am leaving his name out.)
But you get the idea.
)
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shabbychic says:
I guess what I mean about my self-esteem being all wrapped up in him is… I did not like myself and felt unlovable when I met him (have always felt this way). I was so thrilled someone wanted to be with me, someone I was really attracted to (now I know I didn’t even have that). So he must have just picked up on my desperation. I have read that a lot on this site, that they can spot us a mile away.
I read my story in other postings… that I just tried and tried and tried everything… and kept trying for him to respond with actions that would show he loved me. I did not want to be alone, I did not want to feel rejected, etc etc. And now everything has happened, everything I was afraid of.
I didn’t see red flags in the beginning, I saw bright red lights as big as a barn flashing. I ignored everything… I had a boyfriend! I don’t know if I am explaining this very well. I do not write well. But he left, and I’m alone, and I hate it.
Yes, I am now looking at myself, and I don’t like what I see.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Chic, (I won’t call you shabby!)
Being alone is not the same as lonely—sometimes the worst loneliness I have felt was with someone that I knew didn’t value me. That is worse than solitude. It is the PITS for me.
My dear, I am 61 years old, and I don’t like the wrinkles I see in the mirror either and I don’t wear the lovely size 6 I used to either–but you know, I am very satisfied with the face in the mirror now–WRINKLES and all! Because I am a good person and if people judge me on my wrinkles and don’t want to like be because I have wrinkles–it is THEIR LOSS.
Since I don’t go to work every day any more and just kind of hang here,I don’t take a lot of time with my hair or put on make up, or “dress up”–but I am clean and comfortable and that is ME–again, it is ME and I am starting to like ME. Like I am.
Another thing I notice too, is that how you feel about yourself is how others will perceive you. If you like yourself others will like you, they will honestly think you are “good looking” because you present an aura of confidence and charm.
People who are always aware of their looks, even if they think they are beautiful, and even if they ARE “beautiful” by media standards are not well liked as a general rule because if your LOOKS is all you have to offer, it isn’t very much.
When we meet new people, now think about this, we don’t recall what they had on, we remember their eyes, their smile and how they sounded…because that is where we focus when we are talking to someone.
My husband’s ex secretary, if you saw a photo of her you would think she was really homely–but when she walked into a room, every man there THOUGHT SHE WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN THERE, because she lit up the room with charm and confidence so that you perceived her as BEAUTIFUL…really. I have known one other woman like that too. Both of them were so confident in themselves as PEOPLE that they were so charming. We are often our harshest critics too. Other people may think you look great andyou look at every little freckle and think it sticks out like a baseball bat on the end of your nose. LOL
Sugar, my late husband was 40 pounds over weight and had a nose like a banana and you know what, every woman in the world from 9 to 99 was in love with him, and thought he was so sexy–you know why? Because he made THEM feel beautiful. He made ME feel beautiful, though it had been a loooong time since my mirror told me so. LOL
Learn to love yourself my dear, be happy with who you are, the person you are, and you will find the one to love you, but if you don’t like you, why would anyone else want to be with you? I think it is because we didn’t value ourselves as much as we should have that left us vulnerable to the Ps. I know my P XBF found me at a time when I was vulnerable because I had lost my husband the year before. ((((hugs)))))
ps: you express yourself in writing VERY well and I agree with free!
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Ariadne says:
It is amazing how much your inner state affects how you look. When I was still with my N (and when I was a kid too), even when I was happy, I guess the pain showed on my face and people would constantly ask me what was wrong.
Now I feel like I’m finally ok with myself. I cannot count the number of people who have come up to me since then and told me how good I look. I am not a beauty queen and I’m not waif-thin but I feel beautiful for the first time in my life because it shines from inside. Attitude can really make the difference between average and gorgeous.
“When you treat yourself with honesty and integrity and you show others that you love yourself and have self worth, it shows and people… good people are attracted to that.”
I totally agree, Free. Ss look for those who have even a glimmer of self-doubt and feed on it like vultures. Loving yourself and showing it and setting good boundaries are the two most important tools to repel them.
For those of us who have been in more than one abusive relationship in the past, this is the key to breaking the cycle. In some of our families, the cycle has been going on for generations. So many years of dysfunction and abuse in my family, and it can stop with me. We all have the power to stop the cycle but I think it takes some doing because then we have to enter the unknown. Learning how to live life a different way and giving ourselves the love we deserve is a new concept and it is kind of scary to reject our old attitudes and ways of thinking, but the alternative is worse.
It’s funny how we look for unconditional love outside of ourselves but many of us never learned how to love ourselves unconditionally. Maybe it’s because we need to take a good look at ourselves and see who we really are, what are fears are and what are weaknesses are. That isn’t easy. Then, on top of that, we need to love ourselves anyway. Flaws and all. If we can do it for another person, we can do it for ourselves.
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OxDrover says:
Ariadne:
AMENNNNNN! To that!
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Beverly says:
Ariadne, Well put!! What you describe is wholesome inner goodness which is a fine defence against predators. Remembering that dark forces/predators exploit vulnerability. Even caring nurturance without boundaries can be seen as weakness to some exploiters.
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OxDrover says:
Beverly,
I agree with you that “caring nurturing” can and I think frequently IS used against us as our weakness—the critical thing I think too, is the “WITHOUT boundaries.”
caring nurturing is absolutely a wonderful part of us all (former victims) I think, however, not having proper boundaries also seems to be one of those “commonalities” among most former victims as well, again, in my opinion.
About 6 months before my step-dad was diagnosed with cancer, I had thought about things are realized that I had a step father in his early 80s, though in apparent good health, a husband 70, again in good health, and a mother in her 70s, apparently in good health but physically declining, so I got a change to get an excellent part time job that would give great benefits and I would only have to work two days a week, so I took it, knowing that sooner or later, it would be a godsend.
It was also good for me in that I got to spend much ore time her at time farm with my husband, my family, and my dogs. Great deal all around and only a small cut in pay.
When my step dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, I was there to take him to doctors, procedures, etc. and I did this very willingly. When he became quite ill from the two doses of chemo that he had, I was there…when he started having various complications, I was there…I literally shut down my kitchen and moved into my mother’s place and my husband and son came there for meals. On the weekends when I had to work, my son D came there to sleep so that if dad just needed to get up to the bathroom he could take him, but if there was a crisis, I was there on the spot.
I did this willingly. Then my mother had surgery, which had post surgical complications and I had two hospital beds set up there….so for months I did this, totally willingly. After my husband’s death I went back to doing this, again willingly, but with less strength. After my dad’s death, and mother’s recovery though, when I went to SET BOUNDARIES for what I was willing to do for her when she could do these things for herself, or delay doing them until I could do it without stress or not taking care of my own business–which I desperately needed to do—the chaos ensued partly because of her anger at me setting boundaries. She reached out to the Ps to be her servants, and fell in to their trap. Of course, in the meantime I had also figured out that my P-son was NOT repentant at all…so he joined in the family smear campaign about how “mean” and “uncaring” and “controlling” I was—especially after the Ps started getting large sums of money from my mother and lying about it to me—and HER LYING about it.
When I realized that her “caregiver” was a Trojan Horse P sent by my son (my best friend found his photo and history on an Internet OFFICIAL site in TExas for sex predators.)
he even convinced my mother that I had used my computer skills (which I don’t have) to make this up on my computer. It was all a lie. Then he said, “well yes, there was a bit of a problem, but she was 17 (instead of eight) and she was a slut anyway and asked for it, and she really looked like she was ‘legal’” etc. (Yea, they put guys into prison for more than 10 years for consensual sex with a 17 year old all the time and just say that she was eight) LOL
With a combination of all the elements, the psychopaths can make black look white, and convince even the most rational of us that we are the crazy ones—and when you START to set some boundaries when you do start to see through the FOG or if you get a GOOD view through the fog (like the sexual predator site) they go into HIGH GEAR with their FOGGING machine to make YOU look like the crazy one.
I almost had to laugh at one of my mother’s comments, “But they were SO RESPECTFUL to me” I was BAD because I had raised my voice to her in frustration, and they were GOOD because they would never raise their voice to her—LOL ROTFL. It never occurred to her that I felt free to raise my voice to her, to make her mad in an effort to convince her what was going on,, but that was because I wasn’t trying to steal money from her. If they had made her mad or raised their voices to her she wouldn’t have let them have the MONEY. (shaking head and rolling eyes here!) LOL
Setting boundaries where in the past we have never had boundaries changes the composition of the relationship, and we need to be prepared to let go of those relationships because the people we have nurtured and cared for when they couldn’t’ care for themselves because we love them, may insist that we go on caring for them when they are perfectly able to care for themselves. Or if we have enabled them, and cared for them, taken responsibility for what they should have been responsible for, then when we quit, when we do set boundaries—the relationship is likely to go with it. My dad had a little saying that I liked, about the guy that had been enabled and given things for years by his friend, and one day when the friend asked for something, the guy said NO. Then the enabling friend said “Well, Joe, I have paid your house note, I have given you a car, etc etc. why won’t you do this little thing for me?” And Joe replied, “Yes, I know all of that, BUT WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY?”
I think that learning to set appropriate boundaries, WITHOUT losing the caring and nurturing part of ourselves is a thing that I know that I need to do. To be able to give freely, without expecting a “return favor” from people. But at the same time, not to give and give and give to exhaustion to people who do not treat you with “respect” UNLESS you are giving and giving and giving.
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shabbychic says:
Thank you to all of you for posting some fabulous responses to my questions. I do need to do a lot of work on myself… and you have given some great advice! Thank you so much for being here and for being such caring/loving human beings.
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tmassar says:
Hi friends. On the subject of setting boundaries: I’ve been doing that and I’m amazed at what’s happening. But also still not settled. Is it possible that my narcissist H is not as ill as I thought? That I was too much of an enabler? I’m not blaming myself for his miserable past behavior, don’t get me wrong. But since I’ve moved out (we see each other weekends & once during the week now), he’s kind, he’s keeping the house in order – cleaning, gardening, you name it – making NO demands of me, supporting me in my new job, calling me in the evenings, reassuring me where I need it (he’d had an emotional affair through last November which was the catalyst for all this other stuff that came out…about his verbal abuse & other bad behaviors – ultimately the reason I was not liking him anymore)…
Anyway, having brought all this to the surface, now he’s being what I need. But I don’t feel the same way anymore. I’m such a changed person. I’m wary, not trusting. I am strong and independent, I feel good about myself, and somehow I thought that if he continued with this good behavior, we could put the past behind us and things might even be better. But I’m doubting that I can go on with him – and I don’t even know why. Perhaps just too much damage has been done? It’s been a month now since I “left”. My mom thinks maybe i’ve made things too convenient for him – i’m in his life, but not too much..maybe this arrangement just suits him fine. But I don’t even know what this is.
He maintains that he messed up – he knows he was abusive and needs to work on his temper. What more can i ask for, if he actually follows through?
I feel like I’m waiting for him to fail so I can just close the door for good, with a good reason. This can’t be right. This isn’t fair to him, despite how unfair he’s been to me in the past. Am I wrong?
This feels like a long journey with an as-yet uknown ending. I don’t even know if i belong on this blog anymore – some of your situations are so much more extreme than mine. My heart aches for all the sadness caused by these situations.
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tmassar says:
Sad update. I finally pushed him last night to TALK to me about what was going on behind this facade of kindness and respect. I said ‘i’m happy you’re treating me this way, but we’re not connecting, we’re not TalkINg about anything that matters, i don’t know how you’re feeling.’
It took a while to break down that wall, but then the flood came out – he said he feels like a ‘caged animal’ in the relationship, he said he’s paranoid that i’m going to be mad at him all the time, that the things i said when i left really hurt him. He said he realizes that his feelings about feeling ‘caged’ are irrational but he has them anyway. He said he feels nervous everywhere that i’m suddently going to show up and yell at him. (?? i’ve never done this.) He also said he doesn’t want to talk about any of this – that was the deal-breaker i guess. I said how are you ever going to work through this stuff if we don’t talk, if you’re not honest with me, if you don’t want to “work” at it.
He said he doesn’t want to -that he even regretted opening up to me now. Then he said ‘i think we should separate.’ Of course i have already gotten my own place so this is no longer difficult – we were partly separated anyway, but now i guess we will not have contact for some time to come.
This is a tragedy. None of this encounter was angry or cruel -for once, it was honest and peaceful. He said all the things i told him about himself (being abusive, etc.) was true, but that he needed to internalize & deal in his own way. That he wasn’t going to talk about it with me – couldn’t, won’t.
I can’t operate like this – i need openness. For a month i’ve been thinking that he’s been working on things, but it was an act. And of course he was getting resentful that he was being “forced” to act this way.
And so: I go. And I think this is the last time. I don’t know WHAT diagnosis this man would get, but I know I really gave it my all, until I broke. If he won’t talk to me, even in the face of recognizing his own problems, what else can I do.
I’d love some feedback, support, if anyone is out there.
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OxDrover says:
Tmassar,
What difference does the “diagnosis” make? In the end, none really….what you call it whether it is just “dysfunction” or “psychopathic” or “Borderline Personality disorder” etc. doesn’t really make a difference as far as the ACTIONS and the situation are.
My mother, is what I call a “Psychopath by proxy”—she doesn’t fit the criteria for a psychopath, but her BEHAVIOR in defense of my P-son who DOES fit the criteria, is about as bad and as abusive as his is.
In addition, she REFUSES TO TALK ABOUT IT, to acknowledge anything she has done, she wants to “pretend none of this happened”—well, that’s not good enough for a relationship in my book. OPEN HONESTY is essential to me, to have a trusting relationship.
I’ll “just bet” your H doesn’t want to talk about the abuse, because he would have to admit what he had done.
Him “feeling caged” and that you “suddenly show up and yell” etc. are HIS problems not yours, and are his attempts to lay the blame off on YOU—
Of course he feels “caged,” he is NO LONGER IN CONTROL, no longer has the UPPPER HAND. You are no longer willing to tolerate his previous behavior and HE IS NOT WILLING to STOP it (at least for long).
Quote: “he was getting resentful that he was being forced t act this way”
VERY GOOD ANALYSIS of the situation. Good for you!
I would advise you to watch out, though, when the property division etc comes, he may blind side you so don’t trust him too far. Good luck.
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Ariadne says:
Tmassar,
Don’t worry about comparing problems here, you belong here because you have been in a damaging relationship like the rest of us. Like Oxdrover always quotes for us, “Pain is like a gas, it fills us up no matter how big or small it is.” Your pain doesn’t sound insignificant- logistics aren’t that important anyway.
It must be really hard to face the fact that he doesn’t want to work on your relationship, and that his niceness was an act. I know it was hard for me. Even with all my cajoling, he never opened up to me like that. I told him the night before I left for good that I just wanted him to genuinely care about me and he just nodded like he was listening to a lecture and taking notes. That was the moment that I knew things would never ever change and it really hurt.
I know you feel like all your hopes for a good relationship WITH HIM, your husband are dashed. That in itself is a huge loss. Because we, as caring, loving women, like to believe that those who we lavish our love and affection on will love us back and show their affection for us. I think the hardest thing to accept is that the answer to your question, “what can I do?” is nothing. We can’t do anything to fix a relationship with a disordered person, although we might break ourselves trying.
I know that this is probably not going to make you feel better but I understand what your going through and you are not alone. Keep writing it out, you need to feel the pain to get over it, and you will get over it eventually. *hugs*
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