Help for healing from the devastation of a sociopath
PDF Many people have asked Lovefraud to suggest a treatment program to help them overcome the personal devastation of a relationship with a sociopath. A friend of Lovefraud, Sandra L. Brown, M.A., offers a program for women who are recovering from such debilitating encounters.
Sandra Brown is the author of How to Spot a Dangerous Man, which was reviewed in a previous blog post. The book describes eight types of dangerous men—most of them are sociopaths, or partial sociopaths. Brown then explains how women override their internal warning signals and get involved with these men, even when their instincts are shouting, “Run away!”
If you’ve been in a relationship with a sociopath, at some point, of course, you found yourself devalued and discarded. He merrily moved on to a fresh new supply. You’re in a crumpled heap, a shell of the person you once were.
Many of you have asked Lovefraud: How can I heal? Will I ever be able to love again?
The answer is yes, you can recover, and yes, you can love again. Sandra Brown’s program may help you.
Healing retreats
Sandra Brown offers four-day retreats at her facility in the hills of North Carolina. The program is called Healing the Aftermath of Pathological Love Relationships.
First, Brown explains pathology 101—adults with personality disorders are hardwired to behave the way they do. They are not going to change.
Then Brown looks at the dynamics of a relationship with a disordered person. The lies, the manipulation, the crazy-making—this is nothing like a relationship like a normal man. The point is to help you understand that you were not imagining things. Yes, the guy really did lie to you. And no, he never loved you.
But then Brown helps you look at your own life to figure out why you were vulnerable to the sociopath. What did you learn in your family as a young girl? How do you view men? What was going on for you internally throughout your life?
Many women come out of the sociopathic relationship with post-traumatic stress disorder, which can be reactivated by future traumatic events. If this happened to you, Brown teaches self-care techniques and symptom management to help you in the future.
When to participate
The most beneficial time to participate in Brown’s retreat is after you’ve been out of the relationship for four to six months or more. “We are a good program for women who have figured out what he is, have left, and need some psycho-education that they did, in fact, make the right decision,” Brown says. The program then helps you identify internal traits that made you vulnerable, and issues from your family of origin.
The program is not appropriate in some cases:
- Women in crisis. If you’re recently out of the relationship, or if you’re still trying to decide whether you should leave, it’s too soon to gain benefit from this program.
- Women using online dating sites. After a relationship with a sociopath, Brown believes you should stop dating for a year or two, until you’re closer to being healed. “If you’re on Match.com, don’t call me,” she says.
Adult children of sociopaths
Some Lovefraud readers have realized that their parents were sociopaths. For you, Brown offers another program called Adult Children of a Pathological Parent.
Space in all retreats is limited—only six participants are accepted for each session. For more information, visit SafeRelationships.com.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
findingmyselfagain says:
Beverly – I had the same realization one night after I broke it off with him for the last time…. I was always so worried that he’d made a copy of my house key that he used once to come over when I was not home. I started putting a chair propped under the door handle until I could get the locksmith here and spent $100 on changing my locks. I slept with my revolver under the pillow next to me in bed for several weeks.
I thought to myself – I’m dating a man I have to fear for my safety? If he has the character of someone who I fear, whether broken up or together… what kind of man is this I think I love so much? I felt ashamed of myself for making it ok all that time to be in such a relationship. Yet we continue to go back to them even knowing those ugly revelations.
I ran into him in the hallway at work the other day. We exchange a bit of conversation for the first time in 2 months. I was happy to realize I had no longing for him. There was a faint sentimental feeling, but I stood there picturing him with his likely newest conquest and I felt numb towards him.
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Beverly says:
Free, my apprehension about hiding the knives was because I thought he would use them on me! When I first met him I had a sense he was cruel and I didnt trust him at all. He looked like he had been in alot of fights, lots of scars etc. But as we carried on, he reassured me that he ‘doesnt hit women’, and he never overtly physicallyhit me (other than in sex) so I became more trusting of him, until his strange ambient behaviour started. What I didnt realise at the time, was that he was setting me up to mentally and emotionally abuse me.
I am astonished to hear of how you have been abused at the deepestl levels and over a period of time. I feel a connection with you and it pains me to read your story. My exN manipulated me sexually too and he was into S&M, something that is alien to me. I didnt weather much of it though, it did nothing for me and I dont count pain as exciting. I went through it abit, because I thought he might go to another party to get his satisfaction if I didnt, but I couldnt weather it. He was into heavy duty stuff and I couldnt weather it past about 10 seconds. I just saw it as him gaining permission to physically beat me through sex where no-one would see it. On one of the few times, I was left extensively bruised all over my butt and I made him go out and buy me some lotion. If only I had listened to my first red flag warning about his cruel vibes.
Also as I posted on another thread here. Yesterday, ironically, at the very day and time I met him 2 yrs ago, I had breast recall and was told that I have breast cancer. I dont know at this stage what the future is likely to hold, but apart from 1 or 2 friends, people dont realise how deeply being with the exN for only a short time – just over a year – has harmed me on all levels. Life was not easy for me prior to him, but it was ok and it was improving. For years I put everyone else before me and I was at the bottom of my own list and never moving to the top and I was just beginning to make some changes because I had not really looked after myself since he and I broke up. I realise that I cannot put the blame at his feet, but the intolerable stress and anxiety I have suffered during that year and since have certainly not helped for me. Now suddenly, through this, I have to put myself at the top of my list. Infact I am now the only person on my list! Take care. God bless you Free
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jules says:
free; i relate to what you are saying mine was abusive with sex but mostly after we broke up and i stupidly kept sleeping with him we would have sex when he visited me, he was very into it but he would never hold me after wards or talk to me or anything just get up clean himself up and walk into the other room then not long after this he just left me and went out night clubbing with his male freinds that night and probably pick up girls. this went on for a lon g time nearly a year and i let it go that way. then when we had sex he would not do things to pleasure me that i liked and he liked too when we were together, he said i dont do that with someone if im not seeing them, i felt like a prostitute i was very sad about my self then. i also slept with him once or twice maybe when i was pretty sure he had been with other woman he had love bites on him and he lied to me about it. now when i think how cruel he was and how he used me in this way i feel a shamed and totally stupid. everytime he broke up with some girl he rang me with this charm and sympathy seeking and i was there most times. now hes with some other girl a new one and i have vowed if he breakes up this time even if i am still single i will not be there for him not this time or any time. he totally used me for sex and that was all saying he was my friend, he was no friend he did not even go any where with me not for coffee or anything a walk nothing he just wanted sex stayed a few hours then left. no more not any more willi do this for him, friends dont treat you like that i shouldnt even be a friend to him after the way he left me any way but i was just lonely and he abused that. if somone else told me they did these things i did i would think how sad a nd sick theymust be but its me i did those things to my self . now i am moveing on and going to meet a man who treats me the right way and if i dont meet someone like that i will stay by my self . i found with the s path as long a s i went along with things he was sweet and charming and he did treat me ok, but when i started to question and i had the feelings i should, he got nasty and thats when he started to punish me. the new girl is young but evntually if shes got any brains she will see what he is really like. one thing i found funny when i met some of his female friends he went to school with they called him hef as in hugh hefner and i was like what ! he tried to brush it off and i thought this is not right somethings up here with this guy then lots of other red flags and warnings i did not listen to. he always played the innocent and made me feel sorry for him. then when i started looking at his ph bills he really didnt like that and i think thats when he changed his mind ab out staying with me. i dont look at ph bills normally but the thing is there is no other way sometimes to find out what they re doing. and looking at those bills shed a lot of light for me to work things out and realise he was a big liar. so now i try to respect my self and if a guy doesnt like that too bad they are not worth my attention then. thanks and good luck to you free and all of you.
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jules says:
bev; i too have been wondering about the new girl. she seems very soft and easy going just the way he likes it, not self righteous like me and not experienced like me either i thank god i was like that other wise i will still be with him probably. but yes i wonder i dont think he will play up so quickly as i dont think he wants to be alone really and will dig into her for dear life to keep her right where he wants her until he gets bored and doesnt get his way or she starts peering into his life deeper to find stuff from his past ie me and all the others. although idont think he treasts all his exs like me because they didnt question as much they just left him, but he prob punishes for that too. anyway i know he will take his time with this girl espec if shes got things he wants. and i think he s getting tired of failure it prob makes him look bad to other s his friends and so on. he once said to me every relationship is different, now i know he means he adapts himself to how ever the girl is different to be right for her. little things they say now mean something completely different to me with the knowledge ive gained. thanks to you all.
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jules says:
bev i am so sorry fo your news. i feel for you right now so much. i often wonder if the stress i experienced and the anxiety which withme was pretty extreme and all the worry whilst and after he left what was going to happen to me, i wonder if i was doing my health no good i am pretty sure i was not. it was me reacting but what was i doing to my body. this is another reason why i want to let it all go and only experience good things that make me feel good cause i do think it is unhealthy to feel bad and upset all the time. i really hope this is not the case for you and all of us. i love your posts and the advice you give me helps so much, i aM GETTING STRONG JUST READING HERE. my thoughts and good vibes are being sent to you right now. those bad evil s paths and n s dont know what harm they do to anyone. dont hesitate to write to me about anything i understand most of what you write even if my experience was different in some ways it was the same in alot of ways too.
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Beverly says:
Jules. Reading your blog before last just sounds so very familiar – almost like I had written all of it. My exN was very tired of going through and through failed relationships and whilst he is going through his mid life crisis – doesnt want to die a lonely old man, I think he has found someone who is very passive, probably naieve. Whereas I was reactive and on the ball to some degree. Like you I also wonder how many of his ex gfs have actually figured out who he really is. As you say, I think some of them have bailed out because probably he just seems obnoxious.
Yes, I think he has hooked up with someone who is probably less worldly than me, younger, complacent and ripe fodder, whilst he has her right where he wants her. I think he has modified his approach, taking it slower, not making over the top promises and I dont think he has moved in. He usually tries to move in quickly, and I think he has modified his approach off the back of me. the end result is the same though – isnt it.
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jules says:
free; that is so true always someone believing their shit. never no one even if its a casual fling or a girlfreind. i remember in one of our first conversatons on the phone when we first met he asked me if i liked sex , i should have known then thats not something you ask someone right away. mine probably had a lot more secrets too i onlyfound a few things, i used to work every second weekend so he had a lot of free time. if that man cared about you and your son he would make sure you didnt have to catch buses to work and school, words are nothing its actions that show if they really love you. they are mimics like mine said every relationship is different. i hope you heal your sexual problems why should they take anything else from us. thanks to you free. j.
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STN says:
Jules, is that you? I think we were on the other website together (for women in love with a married man), and I just recently figured out that my MM was a total psychopath/sociopath/narcissist.
It certainly explains a lot, doesn’t it? And it certainly breaks the heart in the creepiest way possible. I still can’t feel normal now that I know nothing was in this guy’s heart as I gave him my promises of undying love. I am so glad that I left him cold one day, when he didn’t expect it. He’s almost totally deprived of NS (attention he’s addicted to) and to see what he’s doing to get more of it is just plain sad and embarassing.
But here’s my issue – I’m totally stuck living where he works. It’s horrible. I have to see him every single day. Worse yet, he has a female friend who is also a total psychopath (she loves the games, feels NO remorse, and lives to inflict emotional pain and humiliation on ME). He, on the other hand, just needs to feel important, sexy and better than everyone around him. So he doesn’t get that she’s manipulating him by giving him attention, he just loves the adoration she deliberately supplies; she does it so that he’ll keep trying to hurt me, and together they both try to torment me in any way they can. The lies, the games, the gossip -it’s getting so hard to take. What can I do? They are such good liars. I’m totally stuck here. [I live in the Middle East, in a compound for Americans, and it's small! I've got no place to run to get away from these psychos. The boss here is a total coward, always pretending real problem are nothing, so he gives them the perfect cover. All they have to do is put on the right smile, and they get away with ANYTHING]. Help, please! I’ll be glad for any advice at all. My career and sanity are at stake the longer I’m closed in with these people. I’m constantly on the defense instead of living my life as I should. Always trying to stay strong and together, but this means I get nowhere, all the time, I’m just holding my head above water, never reaching the shore…if you know what I mean.
Okay, I’m in a bit of a panic. Some days are better than this. But since I realized what a couple of Ps I’m dealing with, I feel scared, very scared, and trapped. They’re both out for revenge on me because I know their secrets, I know who and what they are…they know I’ve figured them out, and they do NOT want to be exposed. So they spend their time trying to hurt and destroy me with gossip, lies, abuse, etc.
Mostly I’m able to let it go and get on with my life, but I see the situation is escalating, they’re coming up with new tricks, new hideous games. I’m frightened for myself.
Please send advice if you can. Thank you.
STN
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lesley says:
On the subject of NC: has anyone had trouble with not being able to stop googling the guy? Mine’s a total creep, really scuzzy, and intellectually, I want nothing more to do with him. But then I’d go and google him and the OW, try and find out what they were up to; I was doing this a lot, till it dawned on me that emotionally, it kept me in contact with him. So I’ve forced myself to stop, but it’s hard. Our ending was so abrupt, I keep wanting more information, but that’s only keeping me hooked in. The web can be a dangerous place with psychopaths, both coming and going.
Beverly, very sorry to hear about your news. How are you doing? L
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Beverly says:
STN. Feeling closed in by our experiences is a struggle. I have been there many times. In retrospect, I think, that there is always a way out, its just that we dont see it at that time. Often in hindsight we see it later. I would suggest that you try to get as much as you can and learn what this experience is teaching you. Secondly, I would find a way to loosen your bonds, look for ways to relax your situation, can you make some adjustments, changes? Thirdly, try not to panic. Take control of your situation and ride the wave. If all else fails, listen to your deepest self, and do what you think is right.
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OxDrover says:
Lesley,
I thinnk there are TWO kinds of NC–the physical NC where we stay away from him, and the EMOTIONAL NC where we stop “renting them space in our heads” by trying to find out information. I think the googling is a form of self torture in a way, almost like “cyber stalking”—-refusing to EMOTIONALLY LET GO.
As long as you continue this you will not be able to heal, you will still focus on HIM. I know it is diffiucult to kick him out of your head, but you can do it. I have been there, believe me. But until I QUIT trying to find out about what my Ps were up to, quit obscessing about them, I could not start the healing process. Once I forced myself to do this, the healing started.
Wanting “closure” or “information” about “why,” I think, is a common denominator with the end of all P relationships, whether they are romantic, or otherwise…it doesn’t make any “sense” what their motives are, at least to us, we can’t fathom really what makes them do the things they do. Intellectually we can, but emotionally we can’t. It is like dealing with someone from Mars. Their “reality” is not OUR REALITY.
A lot of the things “they” do just don’t make sense. My P-son tried to have me killed to insure his inheritence of our family’s assets–if he had simply kept his mouth shut and not tried to hurt any of us, JUST WAITED, I was so in denial he would have actually gotten 50% of it–instead, his grabby behavior, his rancor, cut him out entirely so he will get NOTHING. Make sense to you? I guess not, but for some reason it did to HIM.
I actually think that if he had gotten out of prison and been handed $10,000,000 he would have started stealing within a month. None of the criminal acts he has committed were from NEED, they were all committed because he ENJOYED the “rush” the “high”—the predatory “chase”–even getting caught repeatedly and sent to prison didn’t “teach him” anything—except, I guess to be a better (but thank goodness not perfect) con man.
I used to worry incessantly about his welfare in prison. Was he being abused by another “badder” inmate? Was his life safe? Now, I don’t have a single thought about what he is doing now. How safe he is or what he is doing. I DO NOT CARE any longer. He is as dead to me as if he were in the grave. The son I gave birth to and loved IS DEAD, he died about age 12 or 13, and the man that inhabits his body is NOT my son, but a monster. Like a sci-fi movie where the alien takes over the body of someone…the son I loved is no longer in there. For the last 20+ years my “son” has been gone, the body inhabited by the alien monster.
The man you loved (the fantasy of what you thought he was) is just as dead–grieve for that death, but “peeping into the coffin” won’t let you heal. (((hugs))))
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alohatraveler says:
STN,
This may be dumb advice but is there a HR person that you can talk to. I think the one advantage we have after the fall is that we know what they are and we know what they do. Example: we know they will try to make us look crazy if we complain to anyone of authority. You know what… I think I am taking you down the wrong road here. It is such a task to educate someone about what a sociopath is. I think it would be impossible in the midst of a battle such as what you are going through.
Maybe you should apply for other jobs. I mean you must have had another job before you took this one. Get another. Get out of there. Wouldn’t it be great to just disappear off the radar. Out of site, out of mind.
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alohatraveler says:
Beverly,
I am sorry to hear your news about Breast Cancer. Hopefully it was detected early. Here is a video of my beautiful friend Holly. She was diagnosed with stage III Colon Cancer and she beat it.
http://www.youtube.com/results.....earch_type=
Also, my housemate in Hawaii has beat breat cancer twice. You have all of us praying for you, I am sure.
I started at “Tears And Healing” as well. I read the book and it helped a lot. Was it you that said that you feel that you over reacted to things with your ex? I would say, I doubt it. That is your BM speaking to you. I was accused of over reacting too. I started to be very deliberate with my words and contained my emotions so that I could replay in my mind things that happened… and be able to KNOW that I didn’t lose control. This happened early on when he began rewriting history and putting his twists on reality. I used to say that anything he said might have a grain of truth in it but it had be repackaged to the point that it would be unrecognizable.
Also, isn’t it strange that several people on this thread talked about a sense of fear they had with their Sociopath.. some even early on? I met a guy over Craigslist near the time that I had found LF. I don’t know for sure if it was right before or after. Anyway, he was from out of town but visiting a brother.
We agreed to meet in a public place, then we went to a beach (drove separate cars). He seemed nice but he did have a sad story. That night we kissed for awhile but the strangest thing happened. Every time I closed my eyes, I imagined him slipping his fingers around my neck. I NEVER had a vision like that in my life. I was still very traumatized by the BM at that point but still… I don’t know what that was about. The BM never did anything violent to me.
Free,
Your post was so chilling and honest. I applaud you for being so open about something so vulnerable. Sometimes, I am aghast at the things that people have to go through. I just wanted to say that.
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EnnLondon says:
STN, I was in the exact same situation as you six months ago. I took the opportunity to apply for another job in the company – anything to try and get out – and to my surprise my boss (who I’ve never really got along with) said ‘We can’t lose you at the moment’ (it was a placement, so she could say no) and without meaning to I just burst into tears and had to explain that I needed to get out. The ex was freelance so she just stopped hiring him. He had had other victims at work and somehow she heard through the grapevine about one of them. I told her there were others and I could see it in action. I am SO glad I told her – though I went into that meeting with absolutely no intention to. Her failure to see me as ‘a woman scorned’ makes me wonder if she’s actually witnessed a sociopath in action herself. (Incredibly, the ex is apparently in a huff about not being hired again – has totally failed to put two and two together…despite the fact he seemed to be shagging his way through the company, and upset others! They really think the normal rules don’t apply to them).
Beverly – all the best to you – I’m sure you can come through this. You’ve banished that horrible toxic influence from your life and you can beat this disease too. Hope you are feeling well.
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STN says:
Hi,
Thank you for your suggestions. I am trying to find a new job, and FAST. But it’s taking time, I work in a field where there are not so many openings. I may just move back to the States, give up my career and become a waitress or whatever I can find, just to get away from here. And then I torture myself with the thought that I will have allowed these beasts to ruin my career.
I guess I’m also writing just because I’m so thoroughly disturbed by what I’ve been learning. I already figured out the patterns on my own, and figured out that the best way for him to learn about pain was to leave him cold, by total surprise, with no comparable NS available. I wanted it to hurt him as much as possible, so that he could get a little perspective on having a need and the technique of deliberate deprivation; this is what he did to me. He made me an addict by deceiving me, and then controlled me by only giving me what I wanted (‘love’) when I gave him what he wanted (submission). Catching him off guard when I left him gave me a chance to regroup before he could counter attack. I did that, never even knowing the name of this disorder he has. Anyway, I’ve cut off all contact (except I have to see him daily), and my life is getting better on the whole, but there’s trouble coming my way again, I can feel it in my bones.
The good news is that my narcissist is not very bright. He gives himself away to others without realizing he’s doing it, and he has NO idea when someone else is manipulating him. So people are starting to see that he has a problem.
I’ve kept my nose so incredibly clean since I left him. I only do what’s right for me and right for the people who have shown me, with actions, that they care about me. No one I live or work with really knows my secrets though, because like you said, it’s too difficult to educate others about sociopaths when they haven’t been victimized themseleves. It would just make me sound like the crazy one.
Last week my N tried to test my resolve not to speak with him. He spoke with me, just to see how I’d react, not to apologize and make things right, of course. I said nothing, but I stopped in my tracks, looked him in the eye, fixed his gaze and gave him a look that let him know what a subhuman evil monster I know he is.
The good news is that it hurt him. He was in a bad mood for several hours, but then he actually brought another woman into work to keep him company. Imagine that, I mean, everyone knows he’s married and he’s not ashamed of doing this. His only concern is to try to hurt me. It’s astounding how unaware he is of how this is making him look. After that he went into a rage, publically about what a bad person I am. People feel embarassed by it, and they really don’t know what’s going on because he’s probably the most beloved, charming wonderful person many of them have ever met (at least on the surface, of course).
If his psychopath partner were around (she’s out of town) she’d at least be smart enough to make him cover up these obviously idiotic behaviors. She’ll be here again soon. She’s more sick than him, she manages to have about 4 ‘boyfriends’ simultaneously, while she’s married and to convince everyone around here that it’s normal. And they GO ALONG WITH IT, AS IF THIS IS NORMAL! And get this, the men are all about 30 years older than she. Can we say issues with daddy? My N is her youngest, neediest victim. He’s only a few years older than she. I thought both were my friends when things started…I never imagined the sick world I would enter when these two became a regular part of my life. I’m frightened by it’s absolute ugliness and emptiness.
I don’t love him anymore, not after I read what a real narcissist is and see that he is one. But I do look back and realize that there were real moments of love between us, when he managed to let his guard down after mostly just abusing and manipulating me the rest of the time. One night he held me in his arms all night long, just held me close to him. It was the sweetest time I ever spent with him. After that though, he went right back to old behaviors. Shutting me down every time I had an opinion, criticizing, hitting me, flirting with anything that moves, dominating, demeaning me, pulling me in just to push me away, you name it. It was all there.
Funny thing is I think he tried to warn me. He used to say that ‘when this is all over, you’re going to hate me.’ He knew what he was doing, but couldn’t stop himself. It’s so sad to me now, because I feel like if I hadn’t let the affair begin, I might have had a chance at helping him. I feel like if I hadn’t let that monster in him who’s addicted to sex and domination grow, he might have been able to control his bad side.
He used to tell me, “I always knew I was bad.” “You don’t know the real me. I can be very mean, so be careful.” And he was right.
It makes me sad b/c I think he was trying to control himself, as much as he was able. But he lived his whole life getting what he could from as many women as possible. And now that’s the part of him that’s taken over, completely, and a huge downward spiral has begun to accelerate. I have so much regret that I contributed to that. I lost so much happiness, I lost so much time and energy, so many opportunities to have a better life.
Spirituatlity has been my answer too. It is for people who’ve been to hell and who know what the darkest place in the world feels like. The only way I can make myself feel better is to give everything I have to doing what I know is right, to dedicating myself to a higher path with 100% conviction. Faith in that is the only thing that makes me feel safe and comfortable anymore. Yoga is part of that for me, and it’s changed my life for the better, it’s the only active way I can bring myself together, mind, body and spirit.
Why am I writing all of this? Because I have no one else to talk to here and I just have to get it out in a safe environment, where people won’t think I’m crazy for seeing things the way I do. Thank you for letting me do that, and for caring enough to give me some advice. There are no HR people here, I wish there were. I suspect the boss, who is the only boss around here, is at least partly a narcissist too. He bascially just shuts anyone up who expects him to care about the living conditions here. He likes to dominate and manipulate too, and takes credit for other people’s work all the time. And guess which people all get along famously? Right, the man I ‘loved’ (my narcissist), his psychopathic female ‘friend’, and the boss. They all see eye to eye about me and my opinions. They like to cast me as the ‘sensitive’ one, who doesn’t really understand anything and who needs them to make it all clear for me. They want to be examples to me, teach me how to handle my emotions without outbursts.
Meanwhile they all know that I’m on to them, and what they are. It’s such a circus, such an incredible circus, with me as the caged animal. But none of them ever imagined how strong I would get, or how clever, or how I’d plan my way back to a place where I had control again. My N was taken completely by surprise when I dumped him (he actually had tears in his eyes as I walked away and has been climbing the walls for weeks looking for another source of NS), and I just outwitted my boss who had been trying to keep data that I needed in order to get credit for my own work. I tricked my boss into giving it to me, and it’s the last thing I’ll ever really need from him again. Is it wrong for me to want to see them all fall, face first, into the dirt, with me standing on their necks? Because that’s what I want.
Anyway, thanks for listening, and for having made this a safe place to talk about these things.
STN
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STN says:
Dear Beverly,
I just wanted to wish you well separately (I wrote too much above and you’d never find a message for you in that mess).
My health also suffered terribly from the abuse. Something that worked for me that might work for you is a total detox of the body and the spirit. Yoga has poses just for this, and for healing spiritual injuries. Beyond that, a detox diet for the body worked wonders for me. Really. It’s what helped me begin to look and feel like a normal person again, inside and out.
It can be very simple and not too untasty. I’ll just give you my diet plan, but you could always devise your own.
1. For two weeks or a month (you decide)
First thing in the am, drink hot water with the juice of one lemon and honey if you’d like.
2.Drink nettles tea all day long and/or the lemon juice in hot water.
3.Eat plain yoghurt with flax seeds, flaxseed oil and honey as one meal (tastes a lot better than it sounds).
4. Eat bean soup, with vegetables and natural broth for another meal (any kinds of beans, a mix, whatever).
5. Eat as many raw fruits, vegetables as you’d like.
If you can get organic foods and spring water to do all of this with, so much the better. I did it for a month, with a set back here and there, and it flip flopped my whole system, into one that was so much more under control and full of energy again.
Yoga every day, with real commitment, can work wonders. There’s a great website with tons of free yoga lessons and info. (do a search for anmol mehta’s kundalini pages).
Even if this doesn’t appeal, I hope you’ll find a way to heal yourself from the inside out. I wish you all good things.
Love (from one abused but healing woman to another), STN
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OxDrover says:
Alohatraveler,
Your comment about him putting a “spin” on the truth, and it always had a GRAIN of truth in it, but was totally twisted.
Remember when you think about that kind of thing, that RAT POISON IS 99% PURE CORN MEAL. Someting that is 99% “truth” and 1% lie can be just as poison, but the amount of truth makes it “slide down more easily.”
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Beverly says:
STN, Thank you for that. I am going to start a detox almost immediately and I will incorporate your advice in my regime. it is very sound advice. I used to be very good at looking after myself and would eat sprouting seeds etc, but over the winter, I never went out and sat at home very down. Thank you.
EnnLondon, Yes, I got his toxic influence out of my life and as all survivors here know, it can be a battle on its own to do that and then the aftermath. My experience of things is changing quite rapidly at the moment.
AlohaT – Thank you for your positive support, that is good for me and I have had so little positive support for myself over the past 6 months, struggling through a crisis after a crisis, I really havent looked after myself very well. I think we all wish we had heed the first warnings. But we didnt and some of us are working through that knowledge too, as well as working through the severing of this type of relationship – no mean feat! I would totally support what you say about honouring those flashes, those pictures. I had alot of nightmare dreams when I was with him and I rarely have them. The first dream I had I never told him about. I dreamed that I had my laptop stolen and I found it in a second hand store where the thief had sold it. As I went to identify it, the shop staff told me that they had to clear down the hard drive and when they examined it they made an identification. They stuck a label onto the laptop and it said ‘This laptop belonged to a killer husband and an isolated housewife’. You can imagine my horror. I even asked him if he can killed someone and he flew into rage. I had more disturbing dreams. I dreamt that I was in a big house full of windows and that the devil who was dressed as a young attractive man, was throwing stones at my window. In my experience, every insight, picture, feeling or warning should be heeded and acted on. Now, my immediate action would be to remove myself completely.
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alohatraveler says:
STN,
It sounds like you are planning you escape. I am glad. I have had a very rough road back once I left Maui and landed back home, broke and shell shocked. I did not know I had PTSD for a very long time. And I had a friend that was calling me “obsessed” and “stalker.” Can you imagine?! After the nightmare I went through?! And she should have known better because she has studied the DSM IV but failed to sort out what happened to me. In retrospect, this “friend” has been toxic in my life and today I have been rumminating on that… and making meatloaf.
)
Anyway, it was a friend of this “friend” that pointed me in the right direction after hearing just 5 minutes of my story. That is how I found that book, “Tears and Healing” about Borderline Personality Disorder.
I understand your vision of standing over them with your foot on their necks. That made me laugh. I totally get that. The cause of my “obsession and stalking” on the internet was that I wanted to stop this man but I wasn’t sure what he did to me. I wasn’t sure if I contributed in some way. I was so confused and also, I wasn’t sure if he had done anything illegal and yet it felt so wrong. I was afraid of saying what happened because I knew the things he would say about me would put me in a tail spin. In fact, after I left the island, I heard through a friend that Captains that worked for the snorkeling boat tours that BM and I worked for at the end, wanted to know if I could help them with any information to get him fired. They were getting fed up with his Narcissism. He had managed to get himself hired as the “Port Captain” which means that all the other Captains reported to him and they thought he was a… nickname for Richard.
) Did you get that? Anyway, I was way too traumatized and declined to help them.
My point of this story is that it sounds like your Bad Man is starting to build an unsavory reputation for himself. People are onto him. I am sure they don’t know what is wrong but they know something is wrong. Get out of there if you can and then just wait. His reputation may close in on him, especially in the micro community you described overseas. As it turns out, it took more than a year but the BM is having more and more trouble finding anyone to play with. Maui is a small community. I am surprised that he has not been beaten to a pulp by someone’s big ‘Bra” (brother in pidgeon). I have also heard from a resource, that BM has been set up numerous times for dates where no one shows up. I LOVE THIS!!! He has quite a reputation on Craigslist in the islands and for awhile, he was taking an internet beating every time he posted an ad. I don’t know how he is finding ladies right now but.. I am currently in contact with a woman who moved to Maui, partially because of their online love affaird and is now being stalked by him. We have been emailing for a month or so and just talked yesterday for the first time. I have “met” some wonderful ladies over the web… just like here at Lovefraud. My dream is to go to Maui for a visit and meet all of his victims at Starbucks in Kihei and have him walk up and see me there with all these good women. God that would be BEAUTIFUL!!! He would run away crying.
Poor Bad Man.
( He hurts me no more.
Tell your story here if it helps you. I read every detail with full concentration and attention. I know what it means to desperately need to be understood. Feeling understood accelerates the healing. That’s my experience anyway.
You are part of a network of smart, articulate, WISE woman.
Aloha… E.R.
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shesaid says:
The abuser is long gone but the fun just never seems to end for me! After I got rid of him, the police told me he had confessed to drugging people. I discovered my mystery illness was that he was poisoning me with prescription painkillers for the better part of a year. Despite his own confession, the police did nothing about the crime – they can’t without catching him in the act themselves, apparently.
Meantime people at work don’t seem to want to let go of the past. Even though it’s been a year and a half since I got rid of him, they remember the drowsy person who couldn’t focus and could barely stay awake. Every time any little thing goes wrong, they are quick to jump all over me. Even though I was fortunate enough to not lose my job, it still cost me my raise and bonus that year and I get passed over for promotions. I’ll have to change jobs and start over elsewhere. Also since he called me at work and threatened to kill me last summer, I really don’t ever feel safe at work or at home. I find myself wanting to get away from any place he was familar with, and wanting even to change my name to feel safe.
I have people who have encountered him after me who don’t get it and who think if they are ‘just friends’ with him they won’t suffer any damage. Even if they don’t get conned, stolen from, or drugged – there is a vast array of other trouble and destruction he can cause. There was him using my name without my consent or knowledge in committing larceny – which could have brought me accessory criminal charges. There was him impersonating me on the internet, which almost got me sued for libel/slander.
I live under constant credit check – my credit is still great, but I will never be able to not have a watch on my credit. I’ve gone through the process of changing all of my account numbers, just in case he decides to steal my identity later on – he had gone through my important papers box and noted my social security number, account numbers, etc etc.
Fortunately, I never got any STD, but I have nervously gone for testing every six months anyway and I was just finally feeling like I’ve gotten my life back in my own control.
Ha!
HERE’s the kicker. While he was searching for jobs, he had a couple of job interviews in other states. He managed to convince companies to fly him here or there for interviews based on his fake resume and completely fake credentials.
I let him borrow my shoulder -carry on bag for those several trips. I usually travel with my other bag, the pullman, so my shoulder carry-on bag has sat inside another bag for most of the last year and a half.
Fast forward. Here I am today, arriving in a foreign country on a business trip. I think nothing of Customs wanting to wave their drug-detecting wand over me and my things; I’ve never used drugs; Ive never tried drugs; most kinds of drugs I’ve never even SEEN. I’ve never even tried smoking.
I was thinking they would find nothing more stuck to me than cat hair and the melted gummi bears in the top compartment of my luggage.
Well then to my complete horror the rubber gloved customs lady came back with her wand and announced that not only my carry on shoulder bag tested postive for COCAINE but so did my hands, and even my laptop.
Guess who I found out after I got rid of him had a cocaine habit. He must have been carrying drugs around in my luggage. The microscopic residue of his poisonous personality just seems to be on me no matter how much I shower. Now i wonder how I’m going to get back home to the US. I already took a shower with my carry on bag and shampooed the hell out of it. Does customs now have me flagged as a druggie???
I have been wishing for decontamination and a haz-mat suit. How do I get something I can’t even see off of me?? I think I will go to the airport an extra two hours early when I leave and have them test all my belongings and see what they have to help me get home.
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OxDrover says:
The Trojan Horse-P that my P-son sent to harm our family, went through my personal information as well. He took control of my cell phone account, and ran up the bill to hundreds andhudreds of dollars. He even got online with the on-line account he had set up there with a password that only he knew, so I could not set up my on-line account or access it.
He had my credit card numbers and would order things off late night TV–you know the “send $49.95 and I will tell you how to become a millionaire in realestate”—of course when these things arrived unordered, getting OFF their billing list is like trying to get out of the Mafia–you are n for LIFE. What they don’t tell you is that yea, the $49.95 is only the FIRST payment and they bill your credit cards monthly forever.
When you call to try to cancel, you get someone in Singapore who doesn’t speak English or have the authority to cancel the order. It is a nightmare.
I ended up abandoning my cell phone account and getting another…I had to file individual police reports on each of the things he “ordered” in my name on my card…this was all simple “harassment” that drove me BANANAS for weeks–months.
After I secretly fled my home and went into hiding, he came to my house and did vandalism, pulling phone cables out of the outside of the house, turning on the water and letting it run, locking some of my lifestock up without food or water, etc.
Fortunately I never stayed away long and always came with a companion, and at different times of day to check on things, so no major damage was done to the house or the animals. The terroristic tactics though, left me with night sweats about what might happen…I knew I was not safe in my own home as long as he was loose.
There is no end of their deviousness or their enjoyment of inflicting problems upon us. Even when he was in jail awaiting transfer to prison, he sat there concocting bogus harassments to try to make our lives more “interesting” and miserable.
just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean that someone is not out to “get you”—if they can imagine it, they will find a way to try to do it. Getting “revenge” against you for NS injury is many times their motivation for these things.
I will never again underestimate the depth of the malice in these people when they are frustrated in their desires.
Even after the TH-P was arrested, he sat in the court room smirking at me like he had “won” by making my life miserable for so many months. Well, it may not be much consolation, but he is now in the third worst prison system in the US, and his life time of prison terms so far will not even compare to what he is in for now. While he was in the local county jail awaiting transfer to prison, one of the local crack head/meth smoking pieces of trash heard about what he had done to our family and kindly broke his nose for him for being such a “bad guy” and bragging about what a bad a$$ he was.
I guess I shouldn’t gloat, but sometimes “what goes round comes round” in strange ways.
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STN says:
Aloha and Beverly,
Thanks for writing back. I’m glad you’re going to go for the detox Beverly, I think it can only help, and it might just help a lot.
I’m having a bit of hard time today. I couldn’t sleep last night until about 4am, just fear-based adrenaline was rushing through me because of what I learned about my N and his P, and realizing that my boss is an N too, but in a more veiled way. So when I got up today, I did yoga, and lots of it. I put myself in a great mood, felt so strong, and was just glowing from the inside out. But of course, I ran into my N. He was looking beautiful. So handsome, so well put together, he reminded me so much of the illusion of a man that I fell for. Somehow over the weekend he managed to go from acting like a raving lunatic, climbing the walls desperately searching for NS, to this stunning man I saw this morning. He was wearing the cologne he wore when I fell in love with him. I was stopped dead in my tracks. It was all I could do to keep from melting. I lost that good mood I was in, partly, and have been fighting to get it back by reminding myself that what I love is just a fantasy, a perfectly orchestrated illusion. Reality with him could never live up to it, in fact it shattered me when I tried being with him.
So it’s just an internal struggle in me between wanting the fantasy and accepting the reality.
It’s hard to see him bounce back though, because it means he found a new supply of NS, most likely by running to his friendly P, who has no doubt done all she can to drive a wedge between him and me forever. Last night that is all I wanted, to be safe from his bad behavior, and I knew that if he was getting his NS from someone else, I would no longer be a target.
Why is it that I don’t want that after encountering the same man this morning? I just want the good in him to rise to the surface, and see through that P’s act, and Iwant him to become aware of his own NPD, so that he can become a better man. Why is it that I’m still invested like this? I feel like he’s not all bad, and that I want the good in him to prevail. I know better in my head, but the sight of him in all of his refined, illusory glory really got to my emotions. It was the man I fell in love with. He’s back for the first time in about 6 months. For the last 6 months he’s been a total embarassing wreck, desperately searching out attention, i.e. since I dumped him and he had no back-up NS available.
Oh well, I’ve got to believe that this is somehow for the best, in the long run – because the short term sucks. Thank you for reading and caring, I appreciate it so much. I do believe that what they do will harm them the most, in the end. But it is hell clearing out the garbage that I allowed them to bring into my life. It has a way of sticking to you like glue. And everything they ever did that was bad somehow gets pinned on the victim (so I get what you’re saying about being characterized as the ‘stalker’). It’s insane how the longer you’re around them, the more their diseases are identified in you. I don’t get how they do that!
Anyway, one thing I do get is that the only way to prevail is to remain absolutely squeaky clean, and 100% committed to clearing sh*t out of your life and building only on good, healthy things. These kind of people only see the world only in terms of games, they don’t understand truth and decency and ethics. I feel like as long as I have truth, courage, wisdom and a clean heart on my side, they can’t win in the long run. And if I don’t give their garbage a harbor in my life, it will have to float right back to them, eventually.
But I tell you, it hurts to see the illusion of the good man, b/c that illusion represents all I ever wanted in a man. Ugh.
Hope you’re all doing okay today.
STN
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Beverly says:
STN. I think I have been down that route too. Knowing what a cruel manipulator he was, but also grieving for the loss of company. It is painful to think, that I will never have the opportunity to have him back, because he destroyed all possibilities of reconciliation and he crossed my red line. I think having a good clearing session in one’s life and bringing only healthy things is good advice. Some of us are working towards making the experience a turning point, lessons learnt, but of course the old painful feelings still arise.
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STN says:
Hi Beverly,
Thanks. I hit a bit of rough spot these last couple of days, and talking with you is helping. And I’m remembering what I learned and somehow forgot over the last few days. The best defense against these types is to be strong, and emotionally self-sufficient, because they turn any weakness in us into a strength for them. They use our weaknesses against us. So if I find myself longing for the fantasy man again, I’m going to be tough as hell on myself and remember that that’s all he is, a fantasy. The real man was a nightmare, like you said, he crossed the red line. I let mine cross it about 1000 times too many.
Anyway, I wish I could help you more with your situation. I did have a thought that might bring you something good. I know that lauging can dispel my bad feelings, so sometimes I rent my favorite comedies and watch them back to back. I like stupid stuff, like Austin Powers and the old Pink Panthers, and I make myself laugh at every lame joke, until I end up cracking myself up. It’s great, and it brings some much needed light into dark times. Maybe a movie marathon of your favorite comedies could help you too. It’s just a thought, but there it is for whatever it’s worth.
Hope you’re doing okay today.
STN
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Beverly says:
Hi STN. As I am writing this, I have just been watching comedy! I am attempting to cut all the negativity out of my life. Im ok thanks. I had some nettle tea, oh its bitter! Put myself on an ultra healthy diet and building myself up. Ive decided to quit my job and I will be going sick after this week and taking time for myself, but Im going to try and stay occupied. Thanks for your support STN
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STN says:
Hi Beverly,
You sound great, actually. While I’ve been healing, I’ve been fortunate in that I get to make my own schedule. So I’ve been able to rest when I need it, relax, read, learn, rebuild relationships and remake myself during the last year. Even after a full year, I can’t say I’ve gotten rid of all the crap in my life, but I have gotten rid of soo much of it. And it’s liberating…at least on the good days when I’m not freaking out about something. I hope your next year will be full of liberation and strengthening.
Adding a little honey to nettle tea might make it a bit better, and letting it steep for a long time helps with the bitterness. But you’re right about it, it’s not exactly delicious. Still, it’s super healthy, a tonic for all sorts of things… the Arabs believe nettles treat 75 illnesses, and if you ever meet a bedouin, they’ll be able to list all 75 of them for you:). People who saw me as I was last year, and how I am this year after all of this rebuilding I’ve been doing (including the drinking of nettles tea) keep commenting on how the light has returned to my eyes, my skin, etc., and they think I’m in love, because on good days I glow from the inside out. Ha. If they only knew it was about dumping the ‘love of my life’…. Still, learning to love yourself after betraying yourself completely is a big task, constructing healthy boundaries is too, and I think I’m doing better with it all the time. Progress seems cumulative, overall. It sounds like you’re on a similar track. I’m really impressed by your plan to quit the job and do the overhaul. Not working will give the space and time to do it right. I’m happy you have the chance to go for it.
I’m wishing you lots of good luck and energy for the road ahead. I think taking really good care of yourself and the people who truly love you is the most powerful, purifying, healing thing you can do.
xo, STN
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OxDrover says:
Beverly, I think taking off “sick time” is a very good and healthy thing for you to do at this time in your life, I applaud you for doing that good thing for yourself.
I retired about 6 months after my husband was killed. I had “always” worked, long hours and stressful job because I thought that is just “what you do”–but I realized finally, that I had to take care of myself first, and that I actually wasn’t able to continue to do the things that I had been doing, much less doing them “well”—I realized that the “Type A” race I was running was totally unhealthy for me—and that the amount of decrease in my income wasn’t going to put me behind a shopping cart on the street.
I am fortunate that I had that choice, but I am also glad that I MADE THAT CHOICE. Why I hadn’t made it before I don’t know. LOL In any case, good for you!
It is odd to me that sometimes the very thing we need to do to help ourselves is OBVIOUS and right there “before our noses” and we don’t even see it, at least in my case it was. I am now trying to make myself MORE AWARE of the things I need to do for myself, as well as the things I do do that are not healthy. Each day is a bit more progress in the right direction for me, and I think for you as well. God bless.
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OxDrover says:
Free,Somewhere I have a list of “19 things to look for a lie” or something on that order, I read and reread each of them and they all made sense. One of the things was that if you asked someone a question and they “skirted around the issue” it was a deception.
When the Trojan Horse-P showed up with a new vehicle (he had tried to borrow money to buy one from me and I had told him “no, you don’t have the income to repay it.”) I asked him outright if my mother had loaned him the money to buy it. His answer was neither yes nor no, but “I have friends in Texas.”
I knew right then he was lying. My mother denied loaning him the money as well…but later she forgot and “let the cat out of the bag”—he was taking advantage of my elderly mother. He had also, unbeknown to me started to drug her, and her mental and physical condition rapidly decreased to where her words were slurred, and she was completely unstable on her feet. He used the “loan” for the truck to convince her that I was “after her money” and “trying to control” her. Which, as many elderly people trying to hold tightly to independence was frightening to her, he even threatned to withdraw from her and “leave her alone and undefended” and of course my DIL, who was having an affair with him reinforced this plan until my mother had put most of her assets into bank accounts with my DIL’s name on them, revoked my power of attorney, without telling me, and put considerable amounts of money into CDs in my P-son’s name. She even put all her important papers, including the “loan agreement” with theTH-P and her will (of which there was no copy filed at the court house) into a safety deposit box in my DIL’s name.
Yes, I was upset that he had conned her into “loaning” him the money for the vehicle, and there was no lien on the title, only the “loan agreement” which in effect, legally gave him the vehicle “free and clear”–especially after my DIL tore up the loan agreement.
Elderly people are especially succeptible to being conned, and my mother in particular. These people had no intention of anything but greed and malice. There is no doubt in my mind, after their attempt to kill my son C (DIL’s husband) and their taking the money out of the account, tearing up the “loan” agreement, and trying to run, that if my son had not discovered the affair, that they would have at some point arranged an “accident” for my mother, which would not have been difficult since she had frequently fallen and broken bones in the past, and they would have had a nice “grubstake” for a “new life.”
After he was arrested, along with my DIL, among the TH-Ps personal effects we found passport applications, and information from “Russian Bride” agencies, as well as the incriminating letters that my P-son had written him from prison instructing him how to “manage” my mother and me for best effect.
Looking back on the “first point I went wrong” with the situation was that after I discovered the first LIE, I sat down with him and DISCUSSED how “inappropriate” it was for him to take money from my mother, and “gave him another chance” —I WILL NEVER AGAIN OVER LOOK A LIE. ANY lie, the FIRST lie, the first deception.
Interesting too, was that he kept “excusing” himself that it wasn’t “really a lie”—he DID have “friends in Texas.” He just didn’t answer the question I asked. DECEPTION is a lie, either by omission or co-mission—A LIE IS A LIE, no matter if it is 99% truth or 1% truth, or 0% truth, it is a LIE, people who lie are not all Ps, but ALL Ps lie.
I WILL NEVER AGAIN TRUST ANYONE WHO LIES. I will NEVER AGAIN “forgive” a lie and let that person back into my circle of trust. NO exceptions. I may still have to deal with that person in my life one way or another, but I will never take my eyes off them, never trust them. Never give that person the opportunity to stab me.
I will never again overlook any sign of malice or rage in someone.
Trust is something EARNED. I will never again so easily trust someone to be what they say they are. Betrayal of that trust or lies will forever put someone out of a circle of trust—no matter who they are. Or what their relationship to me is.
In the 40 years I knew him, and the 20 years my husband and I were married, he never lied to me or deceived me, and I never lied to him or deceived him. We had lots of disagreements over the years, but we NEVER LIED. You can have differences of opiinon without having a difference of principles. If a person violates someone else’s rights or lies to them, I can BELIEVE they will LIE TO ME when the time is convenient for them to do so. Therefore, if a man will cheat on his wife while still living with and married to her, he will cheat on me. If a person steals from others, he will steal from me. If he disrespects others and treats them poorly, but treats me well, He will eventually come to treat me poorly as well.
The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. People do change for the better, people do go to prison and reform, and people are addicts and go into recovery, but the vast majority of addicts and ex-convicts do NOT reform or go into recovery.
EVen the ex-convicts that do not return to prison do not necessarily live “successful” lives after returning to society, they just don’t want to go back to prison again, so they alter their behavior somewhat but that doesn’t mean they start singing in the church choir.
My DIL is out of jail now and on probation. She is scared to death of going to prison after 7 months in a jail facility, yet she is still trying her manipulations etc. JUST ON THE EDGE of the legal line, but she is still crossing the MORAL LINE, and even trying to get possession of the Trojan Horse’s vehicle which is still parked at my mother’s house, even though she KNOWS she is the one who tore up the loan agreement, and even though she KNOWS morally the vehicle does not “belong” to him or to her. Fortunately, my mother was able to file a lien against the vehicle for “storage” and will eventually get the title to it so she can sell it and recover some of her funds.
My DIL’s stint in jail did not “reform” her or make her see the “error” of her ways—it is still in her mind “someone else’s fault” and she is still trying to gain by deception. In a way it is good that she is doing this, because it is helping my son C heal from this P-encounter, from the 8 years he was married to her, and to SEE that there is nothing he could have done to have prevented all this, that it is NOT his “fault.”
He had committed to the marriage “for better or worse” and would have hung in there even though he was very unhappy and she had emotionally and financially abused him the entire time they were married. But her behavior, her lack of any demonstrated “repentence” (though she wrote such a beautiful letter of repentence to the church) her continued LIES and manipulations, have “freed” him from any obligation to the marriage or the relationship. So now he can heal.
Setting boundaries that are logical and reasonable is important in our healing process and I have consciously set my boundaries, and there will not be a “second chance” to those that cross that red line. Every time I have given someone a “second” chance for lies and/or malice, it has blown up in my face like a land mine. Never again!
The only lie I will ever forget is the one when I ask you if these “pants make my butt look big?” Then you BETTER lie! LOL
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gillian says:
Beverly,
I am so sorry to hear your news and am sending prayers and good thoughts your way.
STN,
As I read some of your posts I kept saying, “Oh my, oh my,” because I can totally relate to what you are going through. It is so crazy-making to remember so vividly the “reality” of the man we were in love with, to mourn the loss, to wish somehow we could have that back, to wonder if he’s thinking about us, how can we get through to him; who is he with (we know who he is with), what is he doing–is he holding her, loving her, kissing her, caressing her–and it is such torment because we can’t help but envy the way we know the new woman is feeling. It’s the highest high, the most sublime state, to feel so cherished, so special, so adored.
We want that back.
But we can’t have that back. We never really had it to begin with. And yet, coming to that realization can only do so much to ease the pain. Having been thoroughly duped for so long–in my case 18 years–I think it’s impossible to immediately let go of all we’ve been brainwashed to believe. It takes time for reality to seep in, for the translucent real image of evil to be superimposed and to ultimately replace the opaque false image of goodness.
It is such a, I don’t know if schizophrenic would be the right word, but for lack of a better one I’ll say a schizophrenic experience.
For me, still living in the same smallish town I’ve lived for all those years, I cannot escape the memories. Practically everywhere I go I’m faced with having to superimpose an ugly reality over a beautiful dream.
This was a favorite restaurant. That was our favorite booth. This was the mountain we’d hike up every summer. That’s the hospital where he and I met, and where our daughter was born. I can still see him lying on his belly, gazing at our baby in her isolette. I can see his striped brown shirt, his corduroy pants, his chin on his hands, the look of amazement on his face.
There’s the high school cafeteria where we attended many an awards banquet. There’s the middle school field where the cross-country team ran. There’s the movie theatre, the coffee house, the boat dock, the post office, the front yard, the back yard, the living room, the kitchen, the bedroom. All these places we inhabited together; and all of it no more than a dream.
I want that back, oh, how I want that back. I go there in my mind. I think of him happy in his new life, and me left behind, mourning my loss, and I ache.
Many say: Good riddance to him, and now what are you doing for yourself? I know they mean well but they just don’t get it. They can’t. Why, they can barely believe he’s guilty of the terrible things he’s done.
“Really?” they say. “Do you think he wants to kill you? Really? You think he did all that? Really? I think he wants to come home.” They won’t believe, they can’t believe, a story that sounds so utterly preposterous. It makes more sense to believe the lies coming out of the S’s mouth. That stuff is believable. That’s in their realm of experience, not the astounding things I’m telling them.
Why at times I can barely believe it myself. The horrors of what he’s done hit me anew and I think, that’s impossible! I never saw him do that, I only know it because of the evidence, his admissions, my imagination, but I never saw it.
It was one gigantic magic trick, which my mind hasn’t quite grasped.
He really sawed the woman in half. He made the Statue of Liberty disappear. Didn’t he? Well, didn’t he? I saw it. I know I saw it. Loads of other people did too. Could we all have been wrong?
Well yes we could have. As hard as it is to believe, we most certainly could have, we most certainly were.
My God, I made enormous decisions based on this Fraud, decisions that profoundly impacted my children when all along I thought I was acting in their best interests.
After 17 years, I divorced my first husband because he was abusive to our children. I soon got involved with my S, we married, he became Dad to my kids. They loved him, trusted him, turned to him, laughed with him, talked to him, leaned on him.
The duplicity is staggering and it makes me so angry to know that my children, who once felt safe and secure in this man’s “love,” are feeling bereft too, wanting to tell him off, but they’ll never get the chance because he–the S–doesn’t care.
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STN says:
Hi Gillian,
Thanks for writing. It’s true, the fantasy was the best love I’ve ever experienced in my life, I’m sorry to say. I mean, it was the highest high while it lasted. I thank heaven that the sociopathic woman I mentioned intervened and ‘stole’ the N away from me. At the time I felt utterly betrayed by them both, and of course, I was, but I now know that I’m the lucky one. I only invested about a year in the relationship itself, and started pulling out after that. I can’t imagine 18 years, with children involved. I mourn the loss of 12 months of the relationship, the desolated aftermath, and the 12 months of recovery I’ve been going through, but I am so glad for the gains, the insight it all gave me.
And yet I feel so wounded still, sometimes. It does take a long time to reconcile the parts into an integrated whole, to deconstruct the fantasies, see them as the lies they were, and to learn to focus only on what I can control about the situation. It is so hard, I fight a battle inside myself almost every minute of every day, and even when I sleep I know I’m fighting because of the kinds of dreams I have.
I don’t know your story, but really, having 18 years of lies, an entire life built upon lies, I cannot imagine the depth of the horrors that that must bring. I’m so sorry. How could he make it last with you as long as he did, if there wasn’t something more to it than the usual using, abusing and leaving without a care pattern? It boggles my mind.
BTW, something I read tonight really helped me feel better. If you feel like it, look up anmol mehta’s yoga/kundalini page on the net and read his take on the meaning of relationships. I had spent the entire day today losing my fight against the blues, but once I read that, I felt better immediately. Even if you’re not into yoga and that sort of thing, what he wrote about relationships hits home, and it at least helped me see the real value in all the pain I’ve gone through.
Okay, as you can see, I write a lot sometimes, so I’m stopping myself. But thank you for writing and understanding. It feels so good to be understood and validated, after so many people have been trying for so long to get me to pretend that nothing is wrong, or worse, thinking that I’m the one making problems. What an unspeakably horrible nightmare it’s been!! Best thing is that on good days I know the value and strength of my own opinion and intuition now. I didn’t used to before I had my encounters with the N and is S/P. But yes, in sum, it does hurt like hell to lose the fantasy, because the fantasy was designed just for us, they made it according to our idea of perfection and they played upon our most vulnerable needs. Can I ask you, do you think yours really adored your daughter as he stared at her with wonder and amazement after she was born? Can they love their own children?
Good night, STN
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OxDrover says:
STN, your question about “can they love their own children?” I do not think so, I don’t think that they are capable of “love” in the sense that they feel anything but OWNERSHIP of another person. As Dr. Robert Hare says, if you ask a psychopath if she loves her children of course she will say “yes” but she doesn’t equate the fact that she doesn’t FEED them with not loving them.
I have seen people I knew were psychopaths do things that were APPARENTLY, on the surface, “unselfish” and very caring. However, if you look at the MOTIVE they do these things with (which will eventually become apparent) it is for some self aggrandisement or setting up a victim “for the kill.”
It is ALWAYS about THEM. If they were to loan you money, it is not to help you out, but to get you obligated to them in some way in which they can use you.
When you “fall in love” with someone our bodies secrete hormones to help with the “bonding” so that hopefully our children will have two parents to help raise them. This is nature’s way of providing two adults to look after the offspring. These hormones last for about three years, I have read, and then they fade away, but hopefully, in the meantime you have established a “relationship’ that transcends this flush of “first love” and a couple will stay together out of mutual respect, caring, and friendship, even though that first “flush of love” is long gone.
I’m not sure if the P gets those hormones when they are in a new conquest or not, possibly. But they hold out the “bait” to you of the “best relationship every” and your hopes get built up that you are going to spend the rest of your life in this ecstasy and then, at some point, you realize it is ALL A LIE—maybe 3 months or 30 years, it doesn’t matter, but you realize that your DREAM LOVE was all “smoke and mirrors” and that not only to they NOT love you, they scorn you, totally disrespect you, care not a flip for your feelings…..and you crash like an eagle with it’s wings torn off, spiraling to the ground where you lie bleeding and wounded wondering what the heck happened to you—what airliner hit you?
You didn’t see it coming, once you were soaring so high, gliding on the thermals, and the next thing you know you are plummeting downward at the speed of light. You look up and you see your mate, your wonderful vision of perfection, flying off into the sunset, not even noticing that you are bleeding.
They pretend to be whatever it is that you WANT them to be, just like a fisherman uses a lure that resembles the kind of food that the particular fish he is after likes…it sucks you in, but it isn’t real, but the HOOK is REAL.
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righteous woman says:
OMG – OxDrover – that is a perfect analogy…that is exactly it. My S says he loves his children, but does not feed him. His son is an object. And I accept that…and my son – who will be 18 in 2-months, accepts that. Time will tell what effect his paternal bond had on his psyche…But, I had to make sure I raised a man fit for the world…not fit for his father.
I went through much turmoil with my son’s father with a belief that a boy needed a father. But his father wouldn’t even kiss him on the cheek when he was little. Shook hands with him like he was some guy from around the way when he decided to grace him with his presence.
STN I know what you have are good memories..shrouded with the realization it was all a work of art of a con. It is Easy for me to look back now and accept what my situation really was..It will become easier for you, also, with time. It is part of healing. Keep your head up.
RW
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tryingtorecover says:
Gillian, “My God, I made enormous decisions based on this Fraud, decisions that profoundly impacted my children when all along I thought I was acting in their best interests.” I feel exactly the same way. What you said about the memories everywhere – I go through that too, but not very often lately. If I remember, your a couple of months behind me in time. Everyone has a different time frame but the last 3 months have made a huge difference for me. I felt like I hit bottom and wasn’t going to climb out, but I did. I feel like I’m taking small steps in the right direction. I haven’t talked to my ex since Dec. That last time is what started the downward spiral. Now that I haven’t communicated with him other than through TM and lawyers I feel so much better. I found out yesterday my divorce is final. I’m looking at this as an opportunity to become the person I truly am and want to be instead of the person I had become after so many years of abuse.
STN, I agree with OxDrover. I don’t think they can love their children either. Bad Dad looked at our son with wonder and “love” for as long as he looked just like him. When he started looking and acting more like me and my family, Bad Dad started losing interest. I get complements all the time about what a nice young man he is. Even the nun who lunch monitors told him to tell his mother she did a good job raising him. lol – You have to know the stories about this nun. Legend has it she makes kindergartners cry on a regular basis. Bad Dad will never know what he is missing with his son or does he care to. Though I’m sure he puts on a good show for the people in his life he’s now fooling. I’m sure they think he misses his son terribly.
OxDrover, your last 3 paragraphs – great description.
There are so many of us out there. I recently found out an acquaintance has a P ex husband. Her story is much worse than mine, but yet the same. One “minor” thing he does is short her $5 dollars in child support every month. He has done much much worse, including physical violence, but when I heard that – it’s just so typical of a S.
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OxDrover says:
Shorts her $5! GREAT!!! I love it, SO LIKE A P!!!! At least that is one thing you can laugh about, but how pointless to do such crappy stuff, yet to them it is a VICTORY to just get by with ANYTHING crappy or tacky, or hateful.
EVen after the Trojan Horse P had done so many things to me, my house, and my animals (locking them up without food or water in the heat of the summer) when I wasn’t home, I think the WORST thing he did was to sit in the court room and SMIRK at me…like he had WON. He had “gotten by” with what he had done, and even though he was in jail, he still felt like he had WON!
I don’t know why I can’t get that PICTURE of him sitting in the court room in his orange jump suit and his jelly flip-flops, handcuffed to the criminall sitting next to him, and yet he SMIRKED—HE DID NOT CARE HE WAS IN JAIL…he still had “gotten away” with his petty crap.
I know it isn’t logical or rational that I should be so concerned or fixate on that darned SMIRK, but it was his final STAB at me was to sit there with the smirk.
Reminds me of one of those old stupid jokes, about the guy who’se house was invaded by a motorcycle gang. They robbed the house and terrorized him and his wife. They drew a circle on the floor with chalk and told him he had to stand in the circle or they would kill him. Then in front of him they raped his wife and tore the house apart.
When they left, his wife was crying and he was LAUGHING hysterically…his wife asked him why he was laughing that their home was ruined and she was raped, etc. and he answered “Well, while they weren’t looking, I stepped out side the circle.”
The holding back the $5 on child support is sort of the Ps way of “stepping outside the circle” and the smirk is also his way of “stepping outside the circle.” Just anything to “get even” with those of us who have given them N-injury. After all if we weren’t like we are, their lives would be wonderful, after what they have done for us, and for us to treat them like we do…..shame shame on us! LOL
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gillian says:
STN,
I have a little free time right now and then I’m not going to have much time to spend at my computer for the next few days, so I wanted to quick write something back.
How did he do it for 18 years? I sit here shaking my head, I can hardly believe he did it myself. He was so damn convincing. Actually, if it had not been for a couple of wild flukes, he would have gotten away with leaving me for another woman the end of last May and I would never have known why. He was planning on leaving under false pretenses, making something up, some need to be alone, whatever.
A friend’s husband says he doesn’t understand how he got away with so much for 18 years. He said there must have been red flags. My daughter from my first husband says that this guy doesn’t really know my husband; my husband (her step-dad) had everyone fooled. The duplicity is unbelievable. He was such a great actor. Phone calls to me several times a day. Ending every conversation with, “I love you.” Sweet cards at birthday, anniversaries and Christmas. All our friends thought we had the best marriage. He was affectionate. He made me sushi. He said the right things.
But it was all a lie. I never really knew what he was thinking or doing. When we were apart I couldn’t wait to be together; when we were together he couldn’t wait for me to leave.
He lied to everyone, kept a different story and mask going for any number of people. I realize now he can work with a large group of people who interact every day and each one of them sees a different man. One can be the woman he’s having a long-term affair with, one can be a casual fling, one can be a co-worker who sincerely believes he is a faithful, loyal husband. To some men he is a Christian, to others he’s a player.
I don’t know how he did it. I don’t know how he does it. I recently asked him how he could be so sure none of the women from work he had sex with would not talk to each other. How could he be so confident?
He said he always thought he was too smart.
Evil is more like it.
As for his sense of wonder at the birth of our daughter, I don’t know. It sure seemed real at the time, but then again everything seemed real, and now I know he doesn’t care about her.
He knew the brakes were shot on my car since the end of last October and he said nothing. He knew my daughter often rode in that car too, out of the mountains.
I think all he ever cared about is his image. To pass for normal. Maybe part of him wanted to be normal. Maybe he thought having more children would help. I don’t know. He definitely wanted a daughter; he already had a son. I think for his ego. I’m not sure.
But I do think the only reason he wants to have anything to do with her now is to use her. He has fallen in love with a new woman (he dumped the “other woman” in December), who is 18 years younger than him, and her parents live nearby, and they are probably close to his age, and I know what he’s thinking. He wants to marry this woman and he’s thinking it’s not going to look real good if his 17-year-old daughter doesn’t want to have anything to do with him. I guess he’ll have a lot of ‘splaining to do.
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STN says:
Hi Everyone,
What Oxdrover describes is exactly my experience. I saw through it in time to fool him, but I nevertheless went through it, exactly like the hell you describe.
It’s the hook, they want you to be hooked so that you will do whatever they want. And then they despise you for being dependent. Ew.
With mine, basically I caught on to the pattern late last year, but knew I was still hooked and couldn’t just walk away. So I tricked him into thinking everything was fine with us, and I fed him HUGE doses of NS. I wanted his addiction to grow,while mine secretly got weaker. Anyway, I had him right where I wanted him, eventually. Basically, he let his guard down in ignorance/arrogance. He thought he’d always be able to get me back, as long as he just pushed the right buttons. So he didn’t have any back ups, no one else was around to supply his NS, and I knew it. And that’s when I slammed the door in his f-ing face and walked away for good. I left him high and dry on purpose. And he’s spent the last several months climbing the walls, and re-grouping.
That said, it broke my wretched heart to do it. I saw tears in his eyes as I left. Now I have no idea what they meant. I wonder if he just realized that he’d been had. Can’t tell. Part of me thinks he did love me, in small portions, as he was able. But maybe not. I can’t tell.
Anyway, Oxdrover, you are so dead on with your description of the trap they set for us, the hook being deliberately diguised and then dangled right before us, how they tailor the hook just for us and what we want. They feed on our dreams and vulnerabilities. Ew.
Revenge: it happens that my N was targeted by a S/P and she’s playing him like a fiddle – she plays him exactly the way he’s played every woman he ever used for NS, and he’s too arrogant to realize that she’s driving away all of his backup sources of NS in his life. His bill for years of narcissistic indulgence and maniplation has just arrived, and smacked him down at least a few notches. It’s a nasty little co-dependency there, and it’s precisely what each of them deserves. What goes around does come around, if the victims just get themselves up off the floor and away from the mess. At least that’s what I believe.
I’m just glad that I got to be the one who outsmarted him and his manipulations, at least I outsmarted him long enough to send him into an ocean of pain, an addict without his NS, it’s exactly what he’d do to me to get me to submit. Monster.
The idealist in me holds out hope that he’s got enough decency in him somewhere that the pain will get to him. But I’m hoping from a clear distance now… I have no more investment in the outcome of his personal struggle, I can’t afford to stay invested. No way. My goal is to get myself to a secure place in life where this can’t happen ever again, to me or anyone I love.
Anyway, thanks for writing.
Bye everyone,
STN
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jules says:
gillian . ; MINE WAS LIKE THAT TOO SO DIFFRENT AROUND OTHERS AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. AND THE NICE LOVE TALK AND BIRTHDAY CARDS A MATTER OF WEEKS BEFORE HE LEFT ME IT WAS MY BIRTHDAY HE TOOK ME TO A NICE EXPENSIVE RESTURAUNT AND PAID FOR THE WHOLE NIGHT HE BOUGHT ME A NEW DRESS TO WEAR, AND ON THE BIRTHDAY CARD HE WROTE ; HAPPY BIRTHDAY AND I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SPENDING MANY MORE WITH YOU. THEN A BOUT THREE WEEKS AFTER ALL THAT HE LEFT ME. ALSO ON NEW YEARS WHICH WAS AT THE SAME TIME AT MIDNIGHT WE KISSSED AND TOLD EACH OTHER THAT WE LOVED EACH OTHER STARING INTO OUR EYES. SO YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DISBELIEFE WHEN HE SAID I AM LEAVING. ONCE WHEN I CAUGHT HIM OUT DOING SOME FLIRTING AT WORK AND ONE OF THE WOMAN TOLD ME I CONFRONTED HIM AND I SAID YOU KNOW WOMAN TALK TO EACH OTHR ABOUT THINGS THEY TELL THINGS SO DONT THINK WOMAN ARE STUPID AND WE DONT KNOW STUFF THATS GOING ON IT ALWAYS COMES OUT EVENTUALLY IF NOT SOONER. AND IT DIDNT MAKE HIM CHANGE HIS WAYS HE JUST KEPT DENYING HIS BEHAVIOUR WHENEVER I CAUGHT HIM OUT I WAS STUPID TO ACCEPT IT I SHOULD NOT HAVE I SHOULD HAVE ENDED IT THEN. ALSO WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TO SEE EACH OTHER WE WORKED TO GETHER AND I WAS HAVING A DAY OFF WORK BUT HE WAS WORKING, I CALLED HIM AT LUNCH AS USUAL, AND WHEN TALKING HE SEEMED TOTALLY DIFFERENT HE DIDNT SAY ANY OF THE ROMANTIC STUFF HE USUALLY DID OR USE MY LITTLE NICK NAMES HE USUALLY DID OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN FACT HIS WHOLE TONE WAS DIFFERENT. AFTER THAT DAY I LATER FOUND OUT HE WAS WITH ONE OF THE GIRLS AT WORK WHO WAS ON HER LUNCH BREAK AND SHE SAID HE FOLLOWED HER AROUND THE WHOLE LUNCH BREAK AND HE EVEN GOT A PHONE CALL AND STILL SAT WITH HER WHILE TALKING AND DIDNT MOVE AWAY LIKE YOU WOULD IF YOU GOT A PHONE CALL. WELL THAT WAS MY PHONE CALL AND I CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT IT AND HE SAID IT WAS NOT TRUE AND DIDNT FOLLOW HER AORUND THAT DAY AT ALL. AFTER THAT I TOLD HIM SHE TOLD ME HE WAS VERY DIFFERENT TOWARD THAT GIRL IN FACT HE DIDNT LIKE HER ANYMORE AFTER THAT. THIS WAS IN THE BEGINING WHEN I WAS JUST GETTING TO KNOW HIM I COULDNT BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE IN HIM ON THE PHONE AND HOW BLATANT TO SIT THERE WITH HER WHILE TALKING TO ME. THIS WAS A BIG BAD SIGN I SHOULD HAVE RUN AWAY THEN. ALSO THE GIRL I AM TALKING ABOUT HERE I GOT TO KNOW HER WELL THRU WORK AND SHE SUFFERED FROM AN EATING DISORDER. MAYBE HE COULD SENSE HER FRAGILITY, SHE TOLD ME SHE GOT A BAD VIB E FROM HIM SHE FOUND HIM CREEPY AND SAID HE WAS UGLY ALSO SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND AND DIDNT LIKE THE WAY MY EX STILL FLIRTED AND ANNOYED HER IT WAS INA PROPRIATE. I SHOULD HAVE LISTEND TO HER WHY DID I CHOOSE TO IGNORE ALL OF THIS I STILL WONDER I AM SMART, WHAT WAS I THINKING I MUST HAVE BEEN VERY LONELY . HIS BEHAVIOUR WHEN I THINK BACK NOW SEEMS ALMOST IN HUMAN LIKE AN ALIEN OR SOMETHING . HE WAS A GOOD ACTOR HE TOLD ME HIM SELF HE LOVED ACTING AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PROFESSIONAL. IT WAS OK FOR HIM TO OPENLY FLIRT BEHIND MY BACK AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE BUT I FI SO MUCH A S WAS NICE TO A WAITER HE WOULD GET JELOUS AND SULK. ALSO I DONT KNOW WHY THEY DONT WORRY ABOUT GETTING CAUGH OUT ITS AS IF IT DOESNT WORRY THEM. BUT ONCE WE HAD A DISAGREEMENT AND HE MADE ME ANGRY AND I THINK HE THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO LEAVE HIM HE TOLD ME HE FELT SICK THAT I WAS UPSET AND MIGHT LEAVE HIM AND OTHER TIMES HE CRIED AND BEGGED ME NOT TO LEAVE SAYING I CANT LOSE YOU. HE WAS REALLY EMOTIONALLY DISTRAUGHT, I THINK THEY HAVE TO LEAVE ON THEI R TERMS AND THEY DONT LIKE TO BE THE ONES GETTING DUMPED. DOES ANY ONES ELSE AGREE I WOULD L0VE YOUR FEED BACK HERE. THANKS A GAIN.
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jules says:
OX DOVER; WHAT IS N INJURY? SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING BUT I HAVENT HEARD OF IT BEFORE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME. THANKS
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Dodged_A_Bullet says:
Jules, if you wouldn’t use ALL CAPS, your posts would be easier to read…:) thanks!
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tryingtorecover says:
Ox Drover, I understand the smirk thing. It’s sometimes the littlest things that get me the most. Things that nobody else would even notice, but I know what they mean and he knows what they mean. Secret torment. People can’t understand unless they have experienced it. I didn’t understand what was happening all those years until I got slapped in the face with a betrayal I couldn’t explain away or deny. Although I think if he would have gotten dumped by the gf or cold feet before I grasped what had happened and he wanted to stay, I would have ended up some how saying I was sorry to him for making him so unhappy and driving him away. Thank God he left. I truly was so messed up and brainwashed. Healing is a long painful process, but so worth it in the end. (I’m not at the end yet so that’s at least what I keep telling myself. LOL)
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Beverly says:
Hi all. Just catching up reading all your news. The details of our encounters may be different, but we have all been through a similar nightmare and it doesnt stop even when they have gone, the aftermath just reverberates. My phone he used to phone his women (which I dont use any more, but I fire it up periodically) rang the other day, to message me from the telephone company for an upgrade. It wasnt my telephone company, probably one for his spare phone numbers. Eerie.
I dont know if any of you believe in signs from the universe. But one of the signs I had, and I had a few was standing in the shopping queue and there was a magazine with a huge headline advertising a forthcoming programme. It said ‘XXXX’s (his name) Shocking Secret’!
Thank you for your message Gillian, the more prayers the better! Dear Free thank you for your hug – I felt it! I notice when people have not been here for a while and think about them, hope they are doing well. I am ok at the moment, get days when my energy is low and not feeling well. Just had confirmation of the diagnosis and got to see the surgeon next week to discuss treatment. I was telling my friend that the people on here are just the bravest and best people ever.
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OxDrover says:
Jules N-Injury is Narcissistic Injury, it is a “slap” at their arrogance, it is a put-down, a revolt of some sort that they perceive as “hurting” them.
If they lose control over us it is an “injury” to them. They become angry, rage filled, etc. and that is what motivates them to “seek revenge” for the “terrible thing” that WE did to THEM.
My X-BF who was a P was N-inured by the womanhe was involved with before me (during the time he was pursuing me he was still tring to get her back)
She had asked him, after an 8 year affair while he was married, if he would ever leave his wife and marry her, and he told her no, that if she wanted a full time man to go get one.
Well, she did. In the meantime, his wife had found out about his MANY on-going long time affairs with his “harem” and kicked his butt out.
So he went back tothat GF and said’ “Darliing, I’m ready for a full time relationship now” and she said “Too late sucker, you told me to find someone and I have” He was so Narcissisticly “injured” that he literally burned down her house as he saiid to her “I will destroy your life” and he did.
After I put 2 and 2 together and realized he was a fake, and I kicked him to the curb, I had given him N-injury, cut off his Narcissistic Supply (NS) and he was furious zat me. I figured he would do something like trying to burn my house too, and I literally threatened him that if my house burned, even if it was struck by lightening and I saw the lightening strike I would still BLAME him and he had enough fear of my sons’ retrobution (he knows that they are protective of me) that he decided to use alittle more subtle approach to his revenge at me, and he succeeded in psychological revenge, but what he didn’t know was, that ultimately it turned out to my benefit.
He called me the night of the anniverswary of the last time I saw him, in the middle of the night to gloat about it…not being awake, I answered the phone before I looked atthe caller ID and was so groggy I listened for probably 30 seconds before I realized what he was doing. Then I hung up.
But, like the smirker, he had to GET IN HIS DIG. For several months after I kicked him to the curb, I grieved for the “fantasy” relationship—I felt old,fat, ugly, undesirable, etc. which of course made me very vulnerable to his “hook” and “bait”—but it was because my husband had just tragicly died, and I was still grieving for him, for my lost love and companion etc. and I wanted to think I could have that again.
Now I realize that I am 60 yrs old, and I do have wrinkles, and I don’t have the figure I had when I was 18, but I am a much better person than I was when I was “beautiful on the outside” I am beautiful on the INSIDE and that is much more important. I am OK by myself, and if I ever stumble upon a man I can love that will really love me back, he will NOT be afantasy man. I will NOT ignore the red flags because I am NO LONGER vulnerable and needy.
All the red flags were there, I saw them and still I fell for him, but like the fish that is starving, I would have grabbed at anything that even resembled FOOD for my starving soul.
NO MORE—I am feeding myself. I am taking care of myself, I am growing, learning, and becoming stronger each day.
I am listening to myself, about my o wn needs, wants and desires, and I am taking care of them. There is no one on earth who can do that for us, we have to do it for ourselves. No other person can be our “lives” because people die, people leave, and we must stand on our own. It is wonderful when you can share a relationship with another human being, your parent, your child, your spouse, but in the end, we are here ALONE inside our heads.
I loved my husband passionately he was my best friiend. Not perfect but wonderful. I miss that. I would love to ohave that kind of relationship again. But I will thrive without it. The memories of the fun we had, will always be there. But I don’t just have tohave some “warm body” to be complete. ONE is a WHOLE NUMBER. Not just half of 2.
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STN says:
Oxdrover,
I have to say, you and I reached exactly the same conclusions independently. Our experiences really drove home the same lessons in each of us.
I think relationships are a mirror, they let us see ourselves, who we really are, what makes us tick. I was so lonely and had sooo much trust in the world and people in general before my N. Now I learned the hard way that I have to have boundaries, to be emotionally self-sufficient, that I have to deliberately align myself with things and people and situaions that are good for me, otherwise the bad stuff will have a chance to gain power in my life. I really needed to take responsibility for the quality and purpose of my life, this was my big lesson (or at least one of them).
Another big help was to realize that the Ns and the S/Ps own the evil they’ve committed, not me. Whenever I have that black empty feeling inside, the feeling that only the victim of one of these monsters can know, I make myself send their evil back to them. I simply refuse to own it, tell myself it belongs to them, and that’s that.
And as soon as I really do that, with my heart and head, I feel a lot better. Just focusing on strengthening my own weaknesses and building a better life for myself is my priority. He will have to pay his own dues. But I do fear his retribution. The good thing is that he has an image to protect here and he knows it. I wonder how far his illness will take him tho. It’s disturbing to the core.
Jules, I agree, they fear being dumped more than anything. It’s all about their ego. That’s it, so it seems.
Beverly, I do believe that the universe shows us things that we need to know, especially when we have our eyes open for it. Hope you’re doing all right, hold on tight and do everything you can to release the poison from your system that this nightmare brought to you. I can see how much my health declined during the abuse. It’s not a mystery why. This is how the body reacts to corrosive emotional forces. The more light you bring into your life, the more healing I believe you’ll do. Maybe I sound like a nut, but that’s what I believe.
xoxo, STN
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jules says:
thanks to you all for your input i agree with it all and feel you all too. i believe in signs too and and i had a few this week they were funny but pretty easy to see actually relating directly to what is happening in my life right now. so i am being positive about it all and i will see what happens. havnt heard from the s path hes got a new lover so i wont be hearing from him and i wont be contacting him either. i just hope the new girl is switching on her radar to what is happening for her sake i bet hes wondering why i havent called or contacted him i know hed be dying to gloat at me, well that is bad luck isnt it its funny how when they find a new person they act like they dont need any of the old ones but i bet inside he is itching to know what we a re all doing now. his curiosity will be up. love to you all. free; i looked up the link you sent it was a good read and explained it to me so thanks. and i think we are taught not to judge someone and i think this is wrong i think we need to read people better and not be afraid of calling a spade a spade in life espec if it saves us from being hurt. my mother had a saying she said if it looks like a pig and it acts like a pig its a pig, mine was a pig for sure.
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OxDrover says:
Jules, I think that “judging someone” is trying to “mind read” and the Bible tells us “Judge not lest you be judged” and that by the “same measure ye meet out, you will be measured” which essentially is that the rules you apply to others will also be applied to you.
However, even the Bible tells us to be “wise” and to “know a tree by its fruit.” We can never truly know what is in a persons mind, BUT that said, we can sure SEE how they behave. We can “guess” at motive and intentions by observing BEHAVIOR, and the “best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.”
Most Ns and Ps are not so consistent over a long period of time that they do not “drop rotten apples” (in other words, RED FLAGS), it is that we chose to not examine these “rotten apples” and don’t see that the rotten “crop” gets worse and worse, until that is all it is. We keep hoping that there is something we can do to “improve the crop” all the while we are standing knee deep in “rotten apples.”
We stay in DENIAL because the “taste” of that one or two wonderful apples we ate off that “tree” was so good, and we keep hoping that we will get more.
In training animals by giving them rewards, INTERMITTENT reward is much more effective than continual rewards.
If a rat gets a grain of corn EV ERY time he pushes a lever and you stop giving him corn, he will pound on the lever for a little while but then he will give up. If you INTERMITTENTLY give him a grain of corn, he will NEVER STOP POUNDING on the lever, because he is SURE that the next time he will get one. The slot machine which gives intermittent “rewards” to people putting money into it works on the same principle and that is why it is so successful and if you walk into a casino and see hundreds of people sitting there “hoping to get lucky” and thinking that the VERY NEXT PULL will reward them.
The Ns and Ps giving us “intermittent” rewards in the form of a sweet tasting apple once in a while, but mostly giving us rotten to the core fruit, keeps us hoping that the very next apple will not be rotten and keeps us in denial.
It is only when we overcome our instincts to fall for the intermittent reward, just like the rat pushing the lever, and to use our LOGIC and INTELLIGENCE that we can overcome the Ns and Ps.
Believe me I have callouses on both hands from pounding on the “lever” hoping that my Ps will give me an apple that isn’t rotten. NO MORE.
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Beverly says:
Hi OxDrover. I am five years younger than you and you are so right when you say that self love and beauty from the inside are the most important, together with wisdom and truth. I have to say that I related to your comments about the rotten apples. Very very good point about the intermittent reward and pain strategy they use – maximum long term effect for minimal effort – and the response carries on after they have gone – clever huh! IT IS an illusion, a very real, technicolour, all singing and dancing ILLUSION!!
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STN says:
Oxdrover, I have to say again that that is EXACTLY how I see things too. And the nastiest part is that they know exactly what they’re doing. They lure us in with the good apples, and only when we give them what they want do they throw a morsel or two at us, just to keep us addicted to our malignant hopes. That is exactly it. I’m amazed how much we see eye to eye on this.
As with the judgine versus being smart, I think there’s a difference. When I saw someone is a monster, I’m judging him, condeming him. That’s prob. not the most elevated thing I could do. If I said that his actions are monstrous and that I need to protect myself (without descending into hatred or utter depression), then I’m just using my head. I think that’s the difference, and you are right, we are here to use our heads in life, to guide ourselves to good situations by figuring out what people’s motives are. Motive tells it all, because an N or a s-p can do things that an angel could do, but the *reason* they do it would be so utterly different. Motive. That’s really it.
xoxo, STN
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OxDrover says:
The “funny” (odd and laughable) is that I am so logical, so smart, and YET I let my emotional malignant hope keep me in denial for sooooo long….or if I got out, to whip me right back into it.
a combination of being “programmed” as a child that “forgiveness” meant “pretending it didn’t happen” and that if you didn’t do that THAT WAY that you would burn in hell forever.
Here I am 60 yrs old and only having learned that the Bible does not say that, and that forgiveness is not for THEM it is for you, and it does NOT mean that you have to turst them again, only that you ROOT OUT THE BITTERNESS IN YOUR OWN HEART (which is toxic to YOU not them) but it does not mean that you “pretend that none of their bad behavior happened.”
Changing the entire way you think and relate to people, learning how to set reasonable boundaries when you have been trained to let people walk on you, let people crap on you and that no matter what if they give you a “fake apology” even though your gut knows it is fake, you have to “pretend it didn’t happen” is so difficult.
Each day is another day stronger and on the road to recovery, but it is hard to recover when you are lying wounded on the ground, suckiing your thumb, wondering what the heck the license number of the train that ran over your life was. You didn’t see it coming because like a horse in harness, you had the blinders on.
Once you take off those blinders and start to SEE, really see, the evil that lurks in the minds of people without consciences, you start to get strong, to learn that you don’t HAVE to be a victim, that it is OK if not everyone in the world like you, and that as long as you stay within your own NEW moral construct you can, the world will not end if you stand up for yourself.
I realize that there are people in the world who will not even admit that there are “evil” people in the world. I have a friend like that and she “excuses” everything (she was by the way, married to an abuser) and after 11 years of being single, she just married another one—one that is not even a good faker in my mind…he “put the hit on” me before he moved over to her, but I wasn’t falling for his line, so after a few weeks of trying, he moved on down the line. I’m sorry to see her marry this man, I didn’t go to the wedding because I couldn’t make myself even appear to be joyful at their ceremony, because I knew what was in store for her. But, I KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT, because she did NOT want to hear the truth either from me or her best friend (who also saw the truth in this man–or lack of it as the case may be).
Learning to NOT give unsolicited advise is another thing I am having to learn to do. I cannot save others who do not want to listen. So zip it!
If people want my opinion I give it, but not to those who do not want it. And, I do not play the “games” (as in Eric Berne’s book Games People Play) of “oh, ain’t it awful” either.
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OxDrover says:
I just had to share a call I received from my son C, whose X-wife (the divorce IS final!) tried to kill him when he discovered the affair she was having with a DIAGNOSED P.
Like many of us, he was in the FOG and refused to “see” what was obvious in her character or in her behavior. He was absolutely committed to the marriage, and even after finding out about the affair, he offered to “work it out.”
It ended up that both her and her P-BF went to jail when my son managed to get through to 911 before her BF broke down the door (gun in hand)…she is out on probation now with a no contact order, and the BF is still in prison.
My son has had a difficult time getting his head around all this, even though he knows that his P-brother, who is in prison, had sent this “Trojan horse-P” ex-convict friend of his to infiltrate our family by renting a house from me. I know he has been doing well, and yet that he was hurting so deeply too. Wanting closure (don’t we all) wanting to know, from her own lips what her motivation was (all she did is lie–surprise!).
I have given him Robert Hare’s book, Without Conscience, and also sent him the URL for this group as well, and he has lurked here I know, and read some of the articles etc. I’m not sure if he has read my postings or this blog but he may have. In any case, today we really talked about his feelings and his relationship with her. He is on the road to healing, taking good forward strides toward closure with all this mess. It came to a “head” in early August when they were arrested, though the entire “episode” which included his wife stealing money from my mom and her BF establishing himself as my elderly mom’s live-in caregiver—which had been going on for 7 months prior to that arrest, but my son in these few months is so much further along in the healing process than I ever even hoped that he would be. I personally know how long it can take to accept that they will withhold closure, almost like a “parting shot” at you—
But I just wanted to share some happy news with this group! And to thank everyone here. I know that this group has not only helped me, and others, but my son as well and I am so proud of him, so relieved that the worst of his pain appears to be receding like the tides and he is on his way to a newer and better life.
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findingmyselfagain says:
OxDrover: first to say, I always enjoy your posts, you have such a great way of explaining things. Thank you.
So happy for your son – what a grand accomplishment – for him to see himself healing. For you, what a relief to know he is going to be okay. My son is 22 and in the Navy – I have to worry from afar ~ so I know how your kids, no matter how old are always your kids and you celebrate their every success.
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