The psychopath’s bewildering ways of talking
PDF A reader says: “I kept wondering what was going on in his head. I could never follow his thinking. I think he might have been into alcohol and drugs and that in itself messes the brain, and along with his other personality disorders, sure makes for a confusing relationship.”
The thinking patterns of the psychopath are indeed weird. It seems there are biological and intentional reasons for this. In others words, he is unable to think very logically PLUS he intends to mislead. No wonder he is hard to follow!
Below I list several factors which together make the psychopath a most bamboozling character.
The odd speech of psychopaths
The psychopath makes “frequent use of contradictory and logically inconsistent statements”, says Robert Hare in ‘Without conscience.’ E.g. “A man serving time for armed robbery replied to the testimony of an eyewitness, “He’s lying. I wasn’t there. I should have blown his fucking head off.” It is as if, says Hare, they have “difficulty monitoring their own speech”.
Psychopaths may also construct strange words: ‘unconscientious’ for unconscious’, ‘antidotes’ for ‘anecdotes’. Perhaps there is something about the brain of the psychopath that contributes to his odd speech.
Drug and alcohol abuse
With their poor ability to tolerate frustration and their high need for stimulation (same thing?), the psychopath is likely to abuse drugs and alcohol which obviously affects the ability to think. Chronic abuse damages the brain.
But, as M.L. Gallagher recently writes, he speaks in riddles purposely too.
The intention to deceive
This doesn’t need much elaboration here. The psychopath wants to get something. He may simply take it by force. Otherwise he will use his cunning to fool the other person. (Interestingly, the illogicality of his arguments doesn’t stop him successfully conning one person after another.)
Logical fallacies
Most of us use logical fallacies when we argue or try to persuade. Some of these are errors in our own thinking, some are conscious manipulations. Just accentuating a different word can make all the difference: “Mom said that we musn’t throw stones at the windows” (i.e. she didn’t say anything about hitting them with a tennis racket).
We can fully expect that the psychopath, with his flawed thinking plus his intention to deceive, will use every logical fallacy in the book. Bear with me for a couple of paragraphs.
Take the example the logical fallacy, the ‘ad hominem argument’. It has two types, circumstantial and abusive. In the circumstantial ad hominem argument the circumstances of the other are confronted instead of the evidence: “Of course you don’t accept that it’s OK to be a loan-shark. You’re a Christian and Christ drove the money lenders out of the temple.” (But that’s irrelevant; if I was Jewish what would your defense be then?)
In the abusive ad hominem argument the opponent is attacked instead of their argument: “You criticise me for loan-sharking, but three years ago you were arrested for drunk driving.” (What does that have to do with loan-sharking?)
Paramoralism
But the psychopath uses fallacies with an evil twist. Whenever possible he’ll use a logical fallacy as a paramoralism. In other words, he won’t use a fallacy only to win a point but also use it moralistically in order to corrode the other’s moral thinking.
How would a psychopath argue ad hominem? Several readers have mentioned precisely this example: “What kind of Christian are you to accuse me of this?” (Again, the other’s Christianity is irrelevant to the topic at hand.) Can you see the difference? Unlike the examples above where the opponent’s Christianity is used to score a point or bring the argument to an end, here the other is being denounced as a bad Christian. An open-minded person is likely to say to themselves, “Maybe he’s right. Perhaps I’m the bad one here.”
Perhaps you have an example to share of the bewildering speech of a psychopath?
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For glimpse into the wacky thought-processes of the narcissist see this article.
style1 says:
One step .. you make me laugh…
He just had this Oriental style long robe that he would wear on occasion and when he did he would walk around with his hands resting on his lower back.. like some Monk or Oriental zin master… the rememberance of that site makes me chortle even now…
Oh according to him the Kriya yoga ws the only true yoga and he had been taught by a real master.. and he has left his body many times and viewed it from above.. and he easily goes in and out of worlds… I always wondered if he can do all that then why does he have bad credit and so much turmoil and pick such terrible women and have so many issues with his children… but that is KARMA don’t you understand…
and he and I knew each other in a past life.. we were married and it was long long ago in the Orient. I was his Queen.. and according to him was also a buddhist monk in some lifetime because of the say that I sit cross legged on the floor or kitchen counter…
GEEZ! Okay guys… laughing laughing laughing…
I mean I am open to lotst..
But I would say look we are in Tx. it’s 2007… get a grip…
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style1 says:
yes.. he was way into ritual..
I am a Christian.. and he would have us holding hands and praying before every meal.. it felt controllng to me…
I talk to God all the time and don’t need to make a big ordeal out of it…
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Oh according to him the Kriya yoga ws the only true BLAH BLAH BLAH yoga BLAH BLAH BLAH and he had been taught by a real master BLAH BLAH BLAH .. and he has left his body BLAH BLAH BLAH many times BLAH BLAH BLAH and viewed it from above.. and he easily goes in and out of SANITY.
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Stargazer says:
Style, guys like the one you are talking about are among the most manipulative because they can use your own spiritual goals against you by telling you what you have to do to become more spiritual. The kundalini teacher I dated wanted to sleep with other people (men and women). When I got jealous, he told me my jealousy was unspiritual, petty, and something I needed to get rid of. Turns out it was HE that I needed to get rid of.
The positive side about dating one of these strongly manipulative characters is that you become very strong when you break free of them. I have dated a few. It took a while to see through them. I was attracted to them because they had qualities I wasn’t owning in myself (confidence, power). Believe it or not, falling for the last few sociopaths was actually a step up for me because these guys at least presented as normal, down-to-earth, guy-next-door types.
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Stargazer says:
…”presented” being the operative word.
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style1 says:
You got it one step… he could do all that… but interesting he talked continually about his big business deals that were going to make him a really wealthy man… WACKO!
Star.. I prayed for a spiritual man.. because I am… very.. I didn’t care what disapline but I wanted an aware man.. and that is one of the reasons that I got caught in his web.. He one on level ‘appeared’ so good and aware…
But he was controlling with it.. and wanted me to do what he wanted which I didn’t.. I prayed.. but I noticed when we went to church last Christmas eve, he seemed very disinterested… and he claimed to be a Christian.. it was just all too much with the meditation.. the guru.. the praying … the listening to religious music all the time in the car….
It was obsessive and like he was hiding from something.. I guess, himself…
It’s all a balance.. I work towards balance..
and I feel close to God..
and interesting as ‘spiritual’ as he is… I laid in bed next to him.. praying that God protect me and reveal what it is that I needed to know… and it was..
One thing interesting about him.. he appeared to have no fear.. he didn’t really plan for the future.. and he changed on a dime.. loved me in an instant.. marries in an instant.. gets out of it in an instant… moves here and there…
no roots… he said that his real home is in another world… and that he can fly and soar in his sleep to other worlds…
Did anyone seen the movie WHAT DREAMS MAY COME.. it’s based on Dante’s Inferno..
well, I really liked that movie and so did he.. this was way before we met..
and when we met .. he called me Annabella.. like in the movie.. I have long dark hair and am the same type as that woman…
and my name is close to that…
and he had a child and stepchild that died..
it was like he thought we were that movie….
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Stargazer says:
LOL, style, they ALL come from another world. If only we could all save up enough to ship them back there!
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style1 says:
Star..
Yes.. they set themselves up as some standard that us mere mortals must rise to… yep, that’s it!
One thing, he could endure lots and he had tons of energy.. and he did stay positive.. but it was that irriational optimism deal going on.. and when I would talk about REALITY.. I was according to him being negative…
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Kathleen Hawk says:
I’m not sure if this is relevant, but one of the decisions I made after my round with the S was that it was easier, cheaper and worked better to hire people, rather than becoming emotionally involved with people that I hoped would help me. Or enlighten me. Or do business with me. Or anything like that.
I have a book written for Buddhist spiritual teachers (it’s around here somewhere, but I can’t remember the title) that talks about ethical and spiritually correct behavior. People do fall in love with their teachers. In fact, that’s one of the signals that the student has found his or her teacher, because the student just wants to be around the teacher all the time. However, the burden is on the teacher to facilitate (not force) the student’s growth, and not take advantage of the student’s feelings. (Like for money or sex.)
I know I was attracted to my ex-S as teacher. He knew how to do and be so many things that were just impossible for me. I was a people-pleasing wimp and he seemed incredibly clear and firm in his goals and nothing distracted him. I did learn all that I hoped to learn from him, because I was determined to do that. But he was also corrupt. His other values were disgusting and he took advantage of my feelings in every way possible, including using my high opinion of him and my desire for his approval to destroy my self-esteem.
Later, I realized that, if I wanted to learn those things, I could have paid someone to teach me. Found a life coach. Maybe a therapist too. Maybe an assistant for the details of recreating my life. But all of it on a paid basis, with nice clean contracts of what they’d do for me and I’d do for them. It would have cost a lot probably, but it would have cost a lot less than I lost financially, and at the end of it, I would have been okay with myself. Not so emotionally sickened that it took me years to get over it.
My ex isn’t the first romance I’ve had with a teacher or mentor. I was an abused child, and in retrospect, I think I was always involved with parent figures.
Fortunately, the rest of them were more reflective and ethical people, though this kind of relationship always has a strange kind of trade built into it. And the risk that the protegee will outgrow the mentor — not necessarily learning all they have to teach, but outgrowing the interest, perhaps, in that particular form of mutual usage. The end of these relationships is often ugly with both parties feeling resentful and used.
I’m not exactly sure where I’m going with this, except that I have lost interest in getting intimately involved with people who fall into the position of my teacher or my student. And if I even suspect that I’m looking sleep with someone I want to change my life, I go “Whoa, girl,” and walk away. If I want someone to change my life, it’s my job.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Kathleen – this is interesting, can you elaborate: “though this kind of relationship always has a strange kind of trade built into it.”
Style – did he like the movie before you told him you did……?
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style1 says:
Mine ‘wanted’ to be my teacher.. and I didn’t sign up for the course.. nor do I think I needed what he was offering up as as subject matter.. therefore, once again I thwarted his power over me…
yes.. we both liked the movie.. and he called me Bella.. there were many things that we did like and similarities… and of course, there had to be something or we wouldn’t have been together… but he was drawn to me.. or so he said.. and I never felt that drawn to him.. I felt it more after he left.. he yanked it away fast so I felt the void… even though I wanted him to go so badly..
Even on the third date, I was thinking what’s the deal with this guy .. when is he leaving? Then I told him that I wanted to go workout, so he needed to go on.. and I was moving into my new house the next day…
I even remarked to a girl while working out.. ” Have you ever been on a date and you couldn’t get the guy to leave…?i It was hard to get this man to leave..”
That right there was my warning and I should’ve heeded it..
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Hecates path says:
As I was reading Kathy’s initial description of meditation, I caught myself thinking “that’s totally jon kabat zinn…” and then a few posts later Kathy’s reccomendation of his book FCL.
I’d like to add that JKZ’s other book “wherever you go there you are” was one of the first two books my therapist reccomended at my first visit post initial breakup w s-ex… when his crazymaking served as trigger that catapulted me into a constant state of anxiety and panic, unleashing all the “issues” from my entire life. ( the other book of course was walking on eggshells – from my first description she had him pegged as a borderline – sociopath would be my discovery later)
Anyway the WYGTYA book was lifesaving — as was learning how to be in the moment and breathe. Learning how to be aware of and ultimately take control of my panic and anxiety was the first step in empowering me to re-gain control of my life. I am not exaggerating that importance or the value of the book.
Along with LF and my therapist, mindfulness meditation has been among the greatest gifts of my recovery. And, most importantly i find even at times when I am not actively meditating, those skills are more present in my daily life. as a result I am more able to be “in the moment” in every day life and see many things more clearly/as they are… people’s intentions, motivations, my reactions, triggers… just by being open to the message and observing.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
The N I dated also wanted to be my teacher. She was the one who was obnoxious to the cab driver to get him to drive faster so that we could get to mediation more quickly. umm, no.
In her letters post POST breakup, she mentioned that I was her teacher in this way and that way. uh huh.
She was getting more deeply into yoga again after we separated. When she came to visit a year ago she was consumed with what her body was doing in yoga- could speak of almost nothing else. She wanted some sort of stroking that I wasn’t giving. I would get really quiet inside when she got into trying to pump me for the 3rd or 4th or 5th compliment about the same thing in an hour. A part of me would just watch my response to her and not stroke. My mom spent all her time stroking my dad. it’s a no go with me.
Doing yoage several times a week, meditating in yoga, ‘it’s like i dont have to sit in (buddhist) mediation anymore, I just do crow and i…blah blah blah.’ And she left my house last year after she raised her fist to my face. (I looked her square in the eye and said, ‘i’ll charge you’, and didn’t flinch)
I don’t respond that well the Ns; now, GIVE me a spath in need of sympathy and Well, my gawd i am in like flinn!
night night.
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Kathleen Hawk says:
The trade…
Well, I was fascinated and attentive and eager. And they wee flattered and delighted to have a serious listener. And then I was willing to help them out and be a kind of apprentice, or do little services in gratitude for their opening up a new world to me. And they were willing to take the time to teach someone who was at a lot lower level. And of course, I would massage their ego in other ways to keep them feeling good about themselves, but also to keep them interested in spending time with me. And they would usually be older and more established, so I would be a kind of trophy girlfriend or wife while I got the benefits of their position.
If this just makes you want to go “yuck,” what can I say? I didn’t see myself as a cynical user. I was just hungry for life, knowledge and a chance to be something, and I really did fall in love with these people.
At some point in my life, I became established and my learning from people became a lot more casual, just picking up information wherever I saw something worth learning. Then later, a switch turned and I started mentoring other people. And learned what it was like on the other side of that.
In these romanticr relationships with mentors, I always was the one to leave, because I didn’t feel like they respected me as an equal. (I wasn’t, but I was tired of it.) In the relationships where I was the teacher, it was more likely that I got left, but in a painful way that indicated less gratitude than I felt I deserved for how I’d changed their lives. (While they, quite understandably, felt that they’d done the heavy lifting of learning and changing themselves.)
I’m not sure if that answers your question. But I know that I’ve gotten much more boundaried about both types of relationship, and more clear about what I’m willing to give and what I want back.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Hecate: One of my favorites is ‘going to pieces without falling apart’, by Mark Epstein. It has spoken to me for a long time – his vulnerability shines through, on his path to be a shrink he became a buddhist.. he recognized the neurosis of being human early on.
good night.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
Kathleen – thanks for the considered response. Yes, it’s clear and I understand.
And can write my own transition from young one to adult to teacher. I think I miss the ‘student of life’ period of my life…the firsts, being new to something, the enthusiasm.
much to think about.
I really like your writing on anger. It’s magical. Not lip service to the learning that anger can bring. I need some help in this area. I need to stand outside of systems – religious or otherwise and really learn about how to be in my own skin again, know and live my values.
Right now I would like to smack everyone who…well, actually I just want to smack everyone. I want to defend myself and I really wish that force would work. No more listening and trying yada, yada. Just: fuck you, pow.
I would like to hurt the spath. hugely angry with her – and I am not sure what to do with it. I have meditated enough to see that I can be paranoid – it is rising and falling right now – I am up and down, and trying to just allow myself that; to be erratic. I find it really difficult to focus on my work. or anything. except walks and being here. and being here triggers me, and it is also compulsive. if i am typing, I am not eating…but neither am i going inside deeply.
I am working my way through the betrayal bond. it’s very good.
okay, i am going to bed now.
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Stargazer says:
Kathy,
You just reminded me of the time I met a fledgling meditation teacher who was managing a 3-month retreat I was at. At the end of the retreat, we started a romance, with me eventually flying across the country to spend a weekend with him. I actually left my boyfriend for him, and he was really just playing with me. I was pretty upset about it, and it still upsets me to think about it. I wish I’d exposed him. It’s too late now; it was about 23 years ago. Geez, no wonder my relationships with men are so whacked. I have years of exploitation from men to overcome.
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style1 says:
In my experince anyone that is overdone on some religious or spiritual practice has major issues that they are hiding from or they use how elevated that they ‘think’ they are to control others… I was sucked in by this guy because he was really differnet in his approach.. although I wasn’t totally sucked in..
those that are overdone on some spiritual practice, I find to be lacking in many things…they use it as an escape..
Here this guy was with little money, many ex-wives, children with all sorts of issues and he is living in myhouse telling me how I should be and that we are soulmates .. when little about us was similar and I never felt the ‘soulmate’ connection with him.. I thought him a handsome man but was never attracted to him really.. it was like he brainwashed me for awhile.. the issue for me is that I allowed it for awhile. I allowed his mess into my life… and now, at times.. my life seems a bit empty because he and his mess is not in it..
That is what I need to look at in myself.. I am fortunate.. I have a peaceful life and I worked to make it so… I got out of things.. healed.. had no children with sickos.. just to have children.. I wasn’t living blind and hopeful but in common sense reality.. and learning as I go..It was him that needed what I had.. I didn’t need him for anything but companionship.. and when that companship was controlling on my doing things not viable and even uncomfortable for me.. I didn’t allow it..
And he realized I wasn’t buying what he was selling.. although I did by the dream for awhile…
I didn’t need a ‘teacher’ although we all learn and teach each other.. I didn’t need someone designating themselves and my teacher.. I need an equal and we share.
and he was not my equal .. he is a mess on most levels, and his life decisions created something that I don’t choose to live.
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Kathleen Hawk says:
onestep,
You sound exactly like someone who has just lifted the lid on a lot of unexpressed anger and un-attended-to need to defend her own boundaries.
You’ve read my articles on anger, so I won’t go back through that. But I’m not certain I was ever really clear on exactly what we learn in this phase and what we have to master before we move on.
Before I write that, I want to add that there is a great deal of conflicting information on anger. And in judging it’s value to us, it helps to understand that anger looks very different, depending on where we are on the path. When we’re in the early stages, it looks scary. When we’re in the middle stage of being angry, it feels like a good and important thing. When we’re in the middle-late stage of internal house-cleaning, we recognize it as a valuable piece of our emotional system, but something that massively alters our perception and leaves ash behind in our system. And finally, when we get to self-love and compassion, we see it as a symptom of rules, demands, attachments, etc. that need to be re-evaluated for their usefulness in our lives.
So I’m writing here from the perspective of the angry phase, inside it. It has it’s own story arc, from introduction to mastery. And these are some of the steps we have to go through to move through that arc:
1. Getting over our fears related to anger — like whether we will be stuck there forever, whether it will make us unlovable, whether it is unfair to other people — and allowing ourselves to experience our internal reaction to threat to our integrity and well-being.
2. Recognizing the focusing effect of anger on our thinking and perception — the increased energy, the narrowing of vision to our issue with something that threatens us, the increased incisiveness of angry thinking (the nature of the threat and threatener, the potential harm to us, the inceased awareness surrounding circumstances, and options we have), and the fact that it is an internal demand for us to do something to ensure our wellbeing.
3. Gradually learning to manage the “old” anger by looking into our memories to discover the original cause, so that we stop displacing it on things that remind us of the original cause. Sometimes we can take action on that old cause, like changing a circumstance (perhaps with our families) that continues to threaten or harm us. Sometimes it’s an event from the past that is long gone and unfixable, and then we may have to do a full trauma-processing on that to resolve it.
4. Practicing with using the energy and focus that anger gives us to deal with threats. Discovering what works and what creates more problems for us. Developing more defensive skills of avoidance, diversion, confrontation. Developing more offensive skills of assertiveness, verbal clarity and conscious awareness of our enviroments. (The offensive skills become a lot more refined in later stages, when we’re more engaged in proactively seeking what we want in our lives, rather than eliminating what we don’t want.)
5. Realizing the anger, unlike previous strategies for dealing with threats (denial, bargaining), is a “separating” feeling. In anger, we draw a line between our interests and other’s interests, and we start to understand the concept of entitlement to take care of ourselves, rather than accommodating others in a way that requires us to sacrifice our well-being for theirs. (Again, the concept of caring for ourselves becomes a lot more advanced when we move beyond self-defense to creating a life that reflects what we want and who we really are.)
6. Developing a clearer sense of this “line” as a natural boundary that is part of our integrity as a person. It is something that doesn’t only exist when we are in bad circumstances, but that is literally part of our being, defining the edge between me and not-me.
7. Seeing the birth of a new kind of understanding that what is inside the line, the “I,” belongs to us. Taking care of ourselves is an entitlement but also a responsibility. What goes on outside that line is not necessarily within our control, though we can become better at influencing it and/or choosing what we want to have around us. But what goes on inside that line belongs to us, like a house in which we live. And inside, we can and must arrange ourselves for our own peace, happiness and ability to be our best selves.
We graduate from the anger phase when we understand what it’s for, how to use it, and develop sufficient self-defensive awareness and skills that we feel more confident about our ability to handle new threats. All of this brings us to the next stage of facing the truth that past loss is real and unchangeable (grief). That not even the most clever and focused efforts of our anger can change the past. That we only feel loss for what we valued and loved, and we must learn that loving and letting go are not incompatible. That the ashes of anger keep us in grief, and we need to do some internal housekeeping to move on. And that in letting go, two wonderful things happen. One is that we make room in ourselves for some new lovable thing to arrive. The other is that we discover the gift of knowledge and wisdom that remains when we stop obsessing on the loss.
The process goes on from here, but it’s not relevant to this discussion.
I call this whole path trauma-processing, and I’m sure there are other things to call it. But before leaving the topic, I need to mention that this “path” is something we do all the time in large and small ways. It’s just limbic or emotional learning, triggered by real-world events. If we burn a finger getting a piece of toast out of the toaster, we go through a version of this, and eventually come out of the experience with a new understanding of reality, a better ability to manage it, and an increased ability to create the life we want (melting butter on the hot toast, rather than toast growing cold while we run water on our finger).
That is, unless we refuse to admit we burned our fingers and therefore have to do it a few more times before we grasp that a potentially painful reality exists. Or we decide that we can bargain with this reality, maybe unplugging the toaster to see if we can get toast without risk. Or we get stuck in blaming the toaster or the people who made it as evil and uncaring. Or we get depressed about the fact that our dream of toast with no burned fingers isn’t showing up for us, and we think that God doesn’t really love us and therefore we’re probably not worthy and shouldn’t try to do anything at all. There are lots of little seductions in the path, but fortunately we’re made to heal and eventually that healing energy compels us onward to letting go and getting the wisdom out of our experiences.
But relationships with sociopaths are not single-trauma events. There are lots of small things to process in the big thing, and most of us discover lots of hooks into our past, old traumas that are related to this. It’s why getting over these things takes so long. There are layers on layers.
Fortunately, once we break through to anger, we’re also breaking through to reality, the acknowledgement that something bad happened to us. And that it originated from the outside world; we didn’t make it up, we didn’t ask for it, and the source had its own momentum that had nothing to do with us. At that point, we’re out of la-la land and working on our own survival, wisdom and ultimate triumph in turning the apparent loss into life-changing personal growth.
Another very long post — apologies — but I hope it’s useful.
Kathy
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style1 says:
Good Post Kathy..
Anger is a healthy normal response.. if it’s not expressed in some form than it is turned inward and do harm..
so writing on here, talking to friends..thinking .. talking to self… working out in any form helps to move it through the body…
Stuffing it with food, liquor or drugs does nothing, of course, but harm and delay its release…
Nothing is wrong with saying that you are angry.. we have for some stupid reason decided that to be angry is wrong when it is normal and healthy.. people don’t like to feel our anger.. so what..
owning, admitting and expressing anger gets us past it.. and not stuck in it…
Sometimes.. I am really angry at myself for things that I have done to myself.. in my just not being aware enough to set boundaries.. and I get angry at others for what they did or how they took advantage or tried to take advantage.. that feeling of anger makes me know that something is wrong.. then I look at it.. process it.. and let it go.. sure it comes back at times.. but owning it gets you past it..
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style1 says:
Talk about how ‘they’ talk..
I had a couple of dates recently with an attorney.. that would say a fairly well-known quote or write it and claim that it was his.. I called him on it and he didn’t respond.. and he kept doing it..
I guess, he has gotten away with it before and didn’t realize that I was so well-read.. or something….. but it was bizarre… and he sent me a poem and claimed it as his own and it was song lyrics from a well-known song..
What is someone that does this.. delusional.. delusions of grandeur.. claiming someone else’s obvious work as theirs..
There are so many wackos in this world that it is unbelievable.. I guess that it is the sign of the times… the break down of humanity…
People just lie and lie and con and con.. and try to impress and mislead…
That is what is making me sad.. there is no honor .. truth…. or plain integrity….
and that last spiritualman gave a good impression of it.. ‘acting’ so good…
It just makes me feel so alone.. like I am one of the few in this world that is real.. or something.. and it is a feeling of being really alone..
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Stargazer says:
I woke up still struggling with anger toward the co-workers and it is stuck and starting to turn into depression again. Story of my life. I wish I could just process this before going back to work tomorrow. I’m afraid I will go back and be too nice again because the anger has gone underground and turned back into depression. I think I will try and call someone today to talk this out. It’s so difficult.
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style1 says:
Star.. talk it out.. but my suggestion and what works for me at times, is a vigorous workout in some form.. cleanse your system by perspiring and movement.. it is a great release.. and what you do on the physical level.. manifests throughout the body..
……….
Parasite; scrounger.
==new answer== Confused. this person would have little idea of their own importance in the scheme of things. Each person has contributions to make and many are simply unaware that they have anything to give and so the only avenue seen is to take. I like to look to identify something in each person which they can give and look for ways to stimulate them to do so. Insistance only causes withdrawal.
Answer
A freeloader.
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Cat says:
one-step, yes, he did indeed show his true colors. He is banned from every household (for the time being) in my family. All of them are searching to see what they are missing and oh my, things are popping up all over! This one is missing this, that one is missing something else. My sister had actually fired the girl that cleaned her house, thinking it was her doing the stealing. NOW, my sister is going back to make amends to the girl wrongfully accused.
EB: Yeah, it was ALL for me! How generous can a person be? NOT. I’m laughing at your response because he is exactly all that and more. My father was a cop at one time and has been the ONLY one who nailed his personality. Now, of course, he too is proving to others that he was right. The ex will not be invited to anymore family events. He will not be allowed to cross anyone’s threshold. He is bile, scum, and regurgitated food all rolled into one.
Ox, you gotta love it, don’t you? He isn’t being charged because of me? My response to that is that he be charged fully for what he did. He has already admitted he did this. He already has a court date in January for stealing my debit card, which he will be sentenced for. The jackass had the nerve to tell me this had nothing to do with me (this is after his telling me he had done it for me!) and that I should “stay” out of it. OMG-I am rolling here! Here we go with the twisting and turning and the lies. I AM out of this. I am not contacting my family because I’ve already heard that some of them feel “sorry” for him and the mess he’s gotten himself into. I don’t look at it like that at all. I see him as exactly how I described him to EB.
You know, the interesting part of all this? I had prayed that God somehow help my family see him for what he really is? God did exactly that, but there’s no controlling this pity crap he’s trying to dredge up. So, some have gotten it and some haven’t. God is awesome.
Now, I have to go shopping for jewelry.
Hugs!
Cat
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Hecates path says:
one step – thanks for the book recommendation. sounds interesting – will check it out!
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witsend says:
If you have ever been to a 12 step meeting you might have heard what is commonly said around the tables. That recovery is a journey and not a destination. Oxy says this and reminds us of this often here at LF.
In real life when we go on a journey or a trip we usually pack a suitcase, if it is a long journey we might pack several bags.
I watched my 17 yr old son do that a few weeks ago as he was preparing to leave on his birthday. He took everything he owned and packed his bags.
If I thought that I had already felt every conflicting emotion possible, and that I was somewhat prepared for his departure I was wrong.
Ironically today when I think of the long recovery journey ahead…I liken it to opening up my own suitcase and unpacking the layers and layers of things in there.
I may set aside a wool sweater as I unpack it, because it can’t be “washed” with the cotton shirts but I still have to deal with that sweater later. I have to wash it by hand.
Isn’t that what we try to do in recovery sometimes. Set aside the “hard” stuff? I know I do.
Kathleen speaks in her above post of the phases of anger.
Anger for me is the wool sweater I set aside. Only now I have a pile of wool sweaters that I have set aside.
Each of us has to face our own monumental task of dealing with the layers. Anger for me is where I become “stuck”. I have developed to many defensive skills (avoidance) and not enough offensive skills.
Although I recognize that I am stuck here I don’t seem to be able to have the ability to know what to do about it.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Cat,
Yes, I believe GOD IS AWESOME! And I also believe that the things that we NEED TO LEARN come at us in “lessons” like the one your family got—(Letter from God to Cat’s Family)
“Dear Cat’s family,
Cat has been trying to tell you this man is dishonest, but you didn’t want to believe her, so I am sending him to your house at your invitation to demonstrate by stealing your things that he is DIS-honest.
I tried to give you the message via Cat telling you this, but you didn’t want to listen, so I am giving you a lesson that you can’t miss.
Love, God”
Yep, I have had plenty of “letters from God” and the subsequent lessons and remedial lessons that went along with them when I didn’t listen to the easy lessons and had to do it the HARD WAY. LOL
Witsend,
Yes, unpacking that suitcase adn “sorting that laundry” is definitely something I am guilty of, putting the hard stuff aside “for later” and then later goes on and on.
Erma bombeck, the comedy writer, talked about her “mending basket” where she put navel binders to mend and then threw the kids’ College Foot Bal uniform on top of that and the stack in between. I am soooo guilty of that in real life with mending clothing, but also with “emotional” mending as well, but a while back I got out the sewing machine and did all the mending in the basket (literally) sewing up rips and tears in my sons work clothes, and so on, fixiing a hem in a skirt that had lain there for months, and you know, it felt really good to accomplish that and see the BOTTOM of the mending basket, and I’m working as well on the “emotional mending basket” as well.
Taking out the remenents of my childhood and mending the tears in the fabric, getting out the paint and stains and fixing the holes. Some things I am deciding are just not “worth” mending, or it doesn’t fit me any more so I am getting rid of it, or I don’t have a need for it any longer.
Looking back on the paths I chose as a young adult and middle aged adult, putting it all together into a whole fabric of my life, what was, what is, and what is to come, God willing, for my future. Sometimes my path looks like the circuitous path drawn in the cartoon “Family Circus” when the author shows where a kid has been in a day. It sure has not been the straight line I envisioned when I started out on my life’s independent journey, it wasn’t nearly as independent as I thought it was, and I kept coming back for reassurance at some pretty toxic places I should have avoided all together.
Now, with my feet (I hope) FIRMLY planted on the journey toward Healing, I see that I am making some progress in life, in working toward and traveling toward where I WANT to be, and ENJOYING THE TRIP as well. I’m no longer looking “forward” to being “happy” I’m happy today. Content, satisfied, but continuing to journey and carrying my mending along with me, and lightening its load as I go.
HAPPY AND HEALTHY NEW YEAR GUYS! (((hugs)))
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ErinBrock says:
WITS:
See… my parents are wool sweaters in my suitcase….and I left them at the airport unclaimed for 2 years……the airlines eventually found me and dropped the suitcases off at my house….so I unpacked the ‘forgotten’ items I had taken on my life trip.
I decided to put the wool sweaters out in the bottom of the compost pile……but my mother found the wool strands, eroded and knitted me a stupid ugly miniature afgan with it…..
So I guess I can’t recommend to you that you put your wool sweaters outside either…..they will come back and show their ugly faces….in another form.
Even if you leave the suitcase at the airport…..for someone to steal…..unless Cats ex is around…..to steal the suitcase…..no one wants our old ‘clothes’…..so we gotta deal with em at some point huh!?!”
XXOO
EB
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OxDrover says:
Dear EB,
Well, I guess I SET FIRE to my pile of old ragged family clothes. LOL Poured diesel fuel on them and struck the match back when I took my egg donor to court for incompetence. It was the ultimate “airing family the dirty laundry” in public. But you know, all in all, I would do the same thing again.
Let the whole thing STINK to high heaven cause you know, the ONLY way you can get the STINK out is to let some FRESH AIR AND SUNSHINE OF LIGHT AND TRUTH come in. Covering it up doesn’t make it stink any less than a cat box does just cause the cat covers it up. There comes a time you have to clean up the mess, air it out and start over and my life smells a lot better now, and feels better, so examining your relationship or lack of it with your “family” may be in the offing at some time in the future.
YOu at least ALREADY know they don’/t love you, it is a control issue, a public-personna issue, and I didn’t even know that much when I started on this cleaning out the cat box. I just knew something STUNK to high heaven. I have been pleased to say, too, that both of my non-P sons get it that their GM doesn’t give a rat’s behind for them, even though they have been the ones to be there FOR HER night and day, day and night while their P brother has never been there for her except as a MOOCH AND LEECH.
Well, actually, she is putting her money where he delusional mind is, protecting the psychopath at any cost to anyone, including herself. It’s a shame, but it’s HER shame, not ours.
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witsend says:
ErinBrock,
Yeah, those dang wool sweaters….And now you got a “to small” blanket and scarf to set on the pile of sweaters.
Your mom is classic….Family dynamics really ARE something aren’t they? NO ONE can push buttons like family.
Many, many years ago my parents had come to visit me for the Thanksgiving Holidays. My parents lived in another state but only about 2 1/2 hrs away from where I was living.
Day after they left I asked my husband for a divorce. (my oldest sons dad) We had been together for 16 yrs. Now mind you I had been unhappy for 8 of those years and tried everything I knew how to make the marriage work. I LABORED over the decision to divorce or not divorce for the last 2 years of our marriage.
I had the “talk” with my husband and had told him I was filing for a divorce. The “talk” wasn’t easy…..He had cheated on me for years and had a drinking problem but naturally he promised me the moon, the earth and the stars all rolled into one if I stayed. I had heard this all before, even though I never asked for a divorce before and it was quite frankly to LATE. I didn’t love him anymore.
I called my mother right after I had the talk with him and I was still upset…..I told her I was going to file for a divorce on Monday and already had the appointment and had saved a retainer fee. Blah, blah… I told her how difficult this decision was and how scared I was (had a craapy job and a child to support) etc…..Pouring my heart out…..
And she said to me : “You know you picked a really BAD time to ask for a divorce”
And I said: “Pardon me?” What do you mean?
And she said: “Well you know with the holidays coming and all….I have already purchased _____ (my X’s) Christmas present”
I was dumbfounded. I am like WTF? I responded in a very sarcastic manner something to the effect of…Well the next time I get a divorce I will check with you first and see if its a GOOD TIME OF THE YEAR for you.
The thing is I really loved my mom….And she was a tortured soul in her own right, being married to my dad…..But that was my first BIG lesson of family dynamics and how they affect us, even when we are “adult” children dealing with parents.
This happened almost 20 years ago. And my mom has passed away since and I have long forgiven her for not being supportive when I needed her during that time.
She was a great grandmother to both of my children. And she was not “happy” when I remarried and had my second child. But although she never “warmed” up to my second husband she was a good grandma.
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eileen says:
Just a comment on the discussion that followed this article – Jules and others felt that they had trained their sociopaths to behave better in relationships, and feared their next victims would be taken in…I had the same feeling, and the same happened to me: from being a very lousy boyfriend and lover, my sociopath improved his behaviour, as part of his game and to keep me hooked. I was delighted of course…now I know that the better he behaved in our daily life, the more he was cheating etc.
And I don’t think he’ll be any better with his next girlfriends – he was 38 when I met him and I have no doubt that his numerous previous girlfriends (like other sociopaths he claimed he had very few, but of course that was a lie) had also tried to teach him to behave decently. At the time I met him he must have known how “normal boyfriends are supposed to behave”. But for them, even if they know the tricks…it’s just too much hassle, they can’t be bothered!! I remember him protesting when we were having arguments: “but I shouldn’t have to…”. On the one hand, they know how to pretend, but on the other they are so arrogant that they don’t think they should have to bother!! So I have no doubt he won’t treat his next victims any better.
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icanseeclearlynow says:
I’m pretty sure this is an example of paramoralism that the ex Narcpath did:
Me: I will not accept that kind of behavior. There ARE some things that are inexcusable.
[note: He never apologized for a vicious rage and attack on me - only made excuses]
Him: You’re with me aren’t you? You say you love me, but you can’t forgive . That’s exactly your problem. Your inability to forgive and to trust. What else am I suppose to do if YOU won’t trust me? A relationship needs trust and you obviously have a problem with it. This goes way back for you I’m sure. We are finished and doomed if you refuse to forgive and trust me. When you came back, you said you had forgiven me, but it’s clear to me you haven’t. That makes you a liar and a hypocrite. None of us are perfect, yet you EXPECT perfection from me. THAT’S hypocritical. YOU YOURSELF have flaws, but you WON’T see them, only mine. I’m the one tring to connect here and you’ve disconnected. YOU are the one always disconnecting. I’M THE ONE HURTING HERE CAN’T YOU SEE THAT!!! You’re the one who should be apologizing!!!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
icanseeclearly now – and he didn’t like, MELT, when he said that, no house dropped on him? wow. the laws of oz mustn’t have been functioning.
thanks for good wishes. am done for the night now. bed beckons.
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icanseeclearlynow says:
haha No kidding. He really by all rights should have. I’m sure I had visions of flying monkeys many times :/
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pollyannanomore says:
I can see clearly = I got paramoralisms like that too = would usually end up apologising when he managed to twist the argument to a way that suited him. The verbal volley was incredible when we had an argument – I would walk into the discussion calmly and raise the point I needed to make, then it would all get twisted, I’d get upset and everything would go to pot. Just dreadful the accusations he made against me.
Towards the end I actually started pulling apart his statements and then he would just walk out or accuse me of abusing him or shouting at him – funny when he was the only one shouting. I can’t believe the circular arguments that went on and on with no progress//
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icanseeclearlynow says:
pollyannanomore – Yes. They are a twisted lot. Their thinking pattern is twisted worse than that big ball of Christmas lights in the movie, “National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation”
I’d like to share an example of the way the exSpath that I did time with expresses himself.
The following which I have copied and pasted to share here is taken from an online forum that he joined with another one of his aliases/personas. This is the first time in public that he has shown his true dark side. In other places online he is the charmer or the fake victim.
He joined the forum that this excerpt is from last fall after I had left him to come and attack me for outing him. He also got another person (sock puppet) to join the forum to attack me. I went through weeks of convincing the admins and them monitoring the activity of both of them before they were permanently banned. I left the forum for my own sanity and for NC.
I knew he would be back there after moving and getting a new IP. He needs to vent his rage and has no target for it now. Sure enough, at the beginning of this month there was a new member on the forum stirring the shit and provoking things there. This time he has chosen to go full dark provoker with his persona. I do believe he thinks that I am still on there lurking and he’s affecting me somehow with his socioshittalk. The thing is that I only just checked in there yesterday and found his twisted stupid game.
So, to give some background. The forum has a psychological theme and there was a topic thread started by another member which was basically about rape and teaching women self-defense. A dialogue ensued for a couple of days in which forum members talked about issues of education re: teaching respect for women to young boys as well as teaching women to defend themselves. A bit of a debate started that got slightly heated but still remained within forum rules. Then the ex sociopath joined the debate. The following is an excerpt from the forum. I think this is an excellent example of how sociopaths’s view sex as a tool as well as showing the paramoralisms and their twisted projecting way of speaking.
This is it:
Anonymous Member#1:
So it would more or less be equal if boys got taught that women are not objects for their own amusement.
Sociopath:
Ah, but women are that, to boys.
And no amount of brainwashing is going to change that.
Brainwashing takes time to be effective.
Sex drive takes not nearly as long, and it bypasses all the cerebral guilt/aversion stuff that brainwashing relies on.
But rest easy: men soon do come to realize that women have become far too dangerous to risk messing around with.
Many an upcoming old-maid is going to rue the day feminists began to get their way.
Anonymous Member#1:
It’s rare that I say this. In fact, I think this is the only time I’ve said something on this board:
Your statements are so messed up and twisted that I can’t in good conscience respond to them.
Sociopath:
My my.
That’s just a wee bit judgemental.
I am sure your view is the only possible one.
In which case, my humble apologies, for whatever transgression I may be guilty of.
Anonymous Member #2
You just said women are sex objects…. seriously..
Sociopath:
Don’t any of you have the faintest clue why males are attracted to women in the first place???
What, are we all so mired in the appearance of things that to speak truth gets us a ticket to the gallows???
Males see women as sex objects.
Get over it.
This is called natural.
It is why we are not extinct, quite yet.
Face it: why else would a male even bother with a female, at least when his juices are still vital.
Females talk gobbledygook, act funny, look strange and can’t spit.
What boy would be interested if he didn’t think she was pretty?
It’s the sex that keeps it all happening.
Really.
What manner of madhouse have I wandered into here?
Maybe I should add these little factoids about myself:
Just so you all know and are not horribly shocked:
I know what a man is.
I am a man.
I am not a woman, a gay, a sissy or an androgyne.
I am not a feminist.
I am not a leftist.
I am not a rightist.
I have no desire to make anyone exactly like me.
I am afraid of nothing.
I don’t care what you believe.
That should go a long way to explaining the truths I am prone to express.
If you can’t deal with facts, truth or reality, too bad.
Phew…
And that’s as emotional as I am going to get.
Anonymous Member#2:
I don’t know how you treat the women in your life. But I will say that despite jackhammering the point in that you are a man– you are not typical.
Maybe sixty years ago you’d be an average joe, but if you said anything like this to any of the men I know, you would be laughed out of the room.
Sex is vital to humanity’s existence.. Duh… But I’m not going to fuck every man I talk to, and I hardly expect the majority of men I talk to to expect such.
Did you just hop out of a time machine?
Sociopath:
Clearly there is a reality disconnect at work here.
A common thing for me to get treated like a non-member of humanity, for my views.
They are my views.
You have yours.
I do not treat you like you are less than a flea for holding them.
I realize that you are the product of your society.
I have moved around the world too much to be as brainwashed as I might be.
Yes I did just step out of a time machine.
The sort that allows one to remain human in spite of everything.
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pollyannanomore says:
Wow – just wow – that’s quite an example. He actually had the audacity to articulate it. What a shocker. I am so glad he got shot down in flames by others and so glad you got away from him – looks like you had a very narrow escape from a real sicko.
My ex would never go on record with views like that – he just enacts them in relationships behind closed doors. The sad thing is that in real life nobody cares – as long as the abuse isn’t happening to them they don’t like to think it is happening to anyone else. The ‘just world’ theory is correct – people don’t like to think there are millions of dangerous people living in the world ready to take out anyone for their own benefit.
This must have been an enormous relief for you to see in black and white when you already knew this attitude was there all along. I think they should all be locked up somewhere – they certainly are not fit to be wandering through regular society. There must be something we can do about them – every day there are more and more victims of these monsters and all most people do is shake their heads and say ‘Well why did she stay so long with him if he was so bad as all that?”
It seems to me there is no end to the nightmare. Even when they are gone from the relationship the torture continues by proxy – now I hear stories about what a great guy he is and see him partying all around town but he can’t contribute to medical expenses for the dog that is in HIS name because he’s too poor to do that. What a guy. If they knew this and other things I wonder if they would think he is so great.
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icanseeclearlynow says:
pollyannanomore –
That’s only one example. He was on the forum for a week before being banned and made hundreds of posts. It started out that most other members ignored him and his inciting, cryptic “riddle-me-this” posts. Probably they were bewildered and taken aback and didn’t know how or what to respond to his bait. After a bit he was called a troll, passive-aggressive and a strawman by a few members.
The thing about his audacity is that it’s all anonymous. I’m certain he is using an IP screener (or whatever they are called – his real location cannot be tracked), as he did the last time. I however, KNOW it’s him. I know from the names and images and icons he uses and I know from the way he speaks and the things that he targets.
I’m not shocked by anything he does anymore. He has shown me what he really is. He no longer has the other real life source of supply he was using as well as me and needs to spew his venom somewhere.
It is vindicating for me in a way to see him do this in public. The downside is that he is still out there playing his game.
Yes, I did have a narrow escape from a sicko and thank you for being happy for me. I don’t know if happy is how I’d describe myself yet. Relieved and grateful is where I am right now.
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pollyannanomore says:
You get to be quite familiar with their phrases eh? Quite amazing that he was banned so quickly and the members were so perceptive – mind you that’s the power of the written word and having other witnesses – we had no witnesses to what happened to us behind closed doors.
I am the same as you — not quite in the space of being really happy yet but relieved to be away from him. My Pex is handing out old scripts to ‘friends and admirers’ – the same sort of activity he did when we first got together. He doesn’t direct them to studios or script readers for any kind of constructive comment because he doesn’t want that – he wants people to fall over themselves giving him praise – people who believe his lines that he’s going to be famous some day. It is such a joke. He was laughed out of the few studios he submitted to – not even a bite. I bet he doesn’t tell the admirers that though. It should be fairly self evident as he gets older that he’s a loser – if you haven’t made something of yourself in film by a certain age, you simply aren’t going to. I wonder when he will get real about himself and this lie he tells that he wants to be a great film maker – wait – he actually says on his profile that he IS a film maker, writer, editor, camera man and director. The only true ones are camera operator and editor. The rest are fantasy.
It’s sick to see exactly the same ruse being pulled over people. They don’t seem to know that these scripts are now fourteen to sixteen yrs old and have gone nowhere – they haven’t even been rewritten or edited – they are crap. Wonder where it will all end up though – I can see some people volunteering themselves to help him ‘reach his dream’ – oh how sad. That’s what I did too – bent over backwards to help him make it and he didn’t – he’s just a loser.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
I am prety sure that i found another ‘profile’ for the spath i tangles with – a couple of months ago or so. it was on the same webiste (which has a community) where we met.
I really just happened upon it – but it struck me as familiar and i looked more closely – read the posts to one of the forums i belonged to…two or three people answered ‘him’ and then they started treating ‘him’ suspiciouly. I messaged ‘him’ in my anonymous guise and made it quite clear i knew what ‘he’
was – and the response i got TOLD me it was her.
i messaged the others who were suspicious and said – keep it up, you are right, don;t trust this one. she has had a hard time gaining a toe hold for this ‘character.’
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kim frederick says:
I found this in the archives,(been reading a lot of great stuff there, all morning) but thought it timely and interesting. It’s hard to tell who is and isn’t a P…but a red-flag is a red-flag…
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OxDrover says:
Kim, the “contadictory” views that they will put out there, or the ” WORD SALAD” which is a very “high sounding” list of sentences or part sentences, strung together to sound very introspective or deep, but if you actually look at the CONTENT you say WTF? What is he/she saying here? Then they get defensive about you “questioning” them, their thoughts and so on. Many times will accuse YOU of starting a fight, or of “refusing to discuss” something. Either way, you can’t win with them.
Because many times their word “salad” is just like a bowl with lots of different salad ingredients all tossed together it is difficult to pick out the ingredients and put them backk together to get them to “make sense” because they just don’t go back together easily!
Picking them out on here usually isn’t too hard if you really look. They will come on ARGUING or disagreeing with some article and then say that the underlying idea of the article is false. LIke saying “Not ALL psychopaths are cruel” (so broad a statement, we’re not able to prove objectively that that statement is 100% FALSE, so it will get an argument started)
Then once the argument is started, it heats up, and so on. My gosh how they love arguments and feeling like they “WIN” over “us” just to show us that we “ain’t as smart as we think we are.”
Most of us here that have been through these “Troll wars” from time to time, aren’t usually sucked in for LONG, if at all. The thing that I “fear” the most from them is that they will get a row started with someone who doesn’t know what they are. I don’t want someone new who is raw and heaing to be triggered off and hurt. I think that most of us here that have hung around for quite some time quickly “get it” about them and recognize a RED FLAG from a Potted plant or a gray rock.
I think you have been around long enough Kim to remember some of the more verbal of some of the troll posters, but also to remember some people who said they came here for “support” and blogged a long time, who in the end, acted pretty much like a troll themselves, slinging abuse at others–there actually were several of these–and that is why we’ve got our lovely “report abuse button.” (thank you, Donna!)
Yea, LF has some interesting articles, even if you have read them before, it is always good to go back and re-read them again.
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kim frederick says:
Thank you for that validation, Oxy…I was starting to doubt myself…still have to conscously restrain myself from engaging, however….sigh.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Kim,
Me TOO!!!!
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silvermoon says:
I got stuck on the part where he said “I will love you always and endlessly” . That’s the one that causes the ouch.
If it wasn’t for that, he’s just talking head. And walking away would be easy.
Once you swallow that hook, its much more work to get free.
It is a language invented to convery a seperate reality.
Maybe there is a parallel Universe and the little green guys will come and take them all back?
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OxDrover says:
Dear Silvermoon,
We (victims) seem to fall for that “and we will live happily ever after” part because we have been raised on fairy book tales and “good wins out over evil” and “there is good in everyone” and “it takes two to fight” and “there are two (valid) sides to every story” and ETC. PUKE!!! Where is that puke emoticon when you need one! ? LOL
Yes, just like when a fish swallows the bait “hook, line and sinker” there is little chance of them getting away without ripping their intestines out. Even if they do get off the hook, many times it is at the cost of their lives. Unfortunately, that is too close an analogy for the women (and men) who die every year just in the US of spousal abuse. In many other countries it isn’t even a CRIME, it is a given that the male controls the family, whatever it takes, iincluding killing a woman who “shames” the family in any way.
While women are the numerical “winners” in the physical abuse contest in the west, that seems to be changing in this country at least. Higher violent crime rates are being found for women at a steady increase and the prison population for violent women is steadily increasing.
Learning isn’t just a western problem, it is a world wide problem and though we preach “no violence” unfortunately, I think our culture still condones to a large degree domestic violence–”if there is provocation.” For example, frankly, I LAUGHED when I saw the forwarded joke of “Tiger Woods Christmas Card” with the picture of him with teeth knocked out, her holding a golf club, bent, across his head and two golf balls stuffed in his ears. In reality, this is NO laughing matter while frankly, I empathize with his wife wanting to beat him unconscious. She was surely provoked enough I have no doubt. It still doesn’t make it RIGHT for what she did.
SNL did a skit on Mrs. Woods beating up Tiger–Ha ha NOT!—but you know, the unfortunate thing is too many end up like Nichole Brown Simpson.
I have done and mostly SAID some pretty inappropriate things when I was “provoked,” that today I think and hope I would never repeat that kind of behaivor or verbal abuse, NO matter how “provoked” I was (Unless it was a life-threatening situation and then I WOULD protect myself.)
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kim frederick says:
On that note…………………….
What do you tell a psychopath with two black eyes?
Nothing. You’ve already told him twice.
Just kidding.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Kim, I couldn’t help but laugh! I’m a baaaaaddd girl! BOINK ME!!!!! LOL
I went up and reread this whole article and the part about the PARAMORALISM is so true.
Back a couple of years ago when the entire family cut off communication with my P son, my gosh did he PANIC. AT that time the $$$$ was also cut off so he went into HYPER DRIVE with the drivel “communication.”
He would write people and tell them he was “worried” about my egg donor, and ask them to call and see if she was “Okay.”
Then he would write and play the pity play, then the angry play, and the you have let me down play, and I am worried play,etc. finally in frustration he wrote to a minister friend of the family that he knows and write this letter telling the minister what BAD Christians we are because we would not “give him unconditional love.” HUH??? UN-conditional love for someone who tried to KILL ME????? Yea, right! Of course his definition of LOVE=$$$$ didn’t seem to fly with me, and at the time, the egg donor wasn’t sending $$$$ either, but she now “loves him” (sends money and lies for him) so he is happy now that she has UN-conditional “love” for him. LOL
The minister sent me a copy of my son’s letter and his answer as well, which was 10 pages hand written of ‘DOUBLE SPEAK’ or a lesson in how to “say nothing in 10,000 words or more” LOL I was absolutely amazed that the minister could pull that one off! LOL He is a wonderful, very caring and loving man, but He has learned, through me and my P-son what psychopathy is all about. He is now very active in some DV programs as well as his prison ministry too. But he no longer swallows the idea that “there is good in everyone” and has come to see psychopathy for what it really is. The prison ministry he is in though has only a 10% recidivism rate instead of 60+% of the gen pop of prisons. So it is probably doing some actual good, but I also imagine that there are those like my P-son who are “conning” there as well.
In fact once my P-son was called out of church to be put in solitary for infractions! He was livid because he said (to the Trojan Horse Psychopath in a letter) “you know, they tell us we wouldn’t have been arrested and be in prison if we’d been in church—so that proves that sure isn’t true!” LOL
Looking back over just about every relationship with every psychopath I have known, if you will LISTEN to what they say without “interpreting it” into “normal speak” they will usually TELL you by their paramoralism and inconsistencies and so on what they are. Some of them are better than others, but the bottom line is they really don’t SPEAK HUMAN, there is always like they are “translating” from one language to another.
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Like I never got good enough in spanish or any other language that I didn’t have to “translate” from english into spanish and then say the few words I was trying to remember. It wasn’t FLUID, and I thinkk many times the Ps patter is not as fluid as it was if “emotional language” was their “native tongue.”
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kim frederick says:
Oxy, I think, for me the main thing that distinguishes psychospeak from human interactions is that the p displays his need for dominance and control, in language as he does in everything else….he’s not seeking a solution, or any kind of par understanding, or clarification, but, as always seeks to win.
Always the antithesis, never the synthesis.
If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
If, we, as problem solvers try to engage, we will probably lose, because we play by the rules…like logic, sticking to the point, trying to make ourselves very clear…they will deliberatly obfulscate, confuse and when it’s not working, cry victim. Sigh.
Better to recognize them for the potted plants they are.
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kim frederick says:
although, I like potted plants. They are nature, and provide oxygen to the envirnment…so, let me retract that and correct by saying instead, plastic plants.
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