Should I warn the sociopath’s next victim?
As many of us have painfully learned, before sociopaths dump one victim, they usually have already targeted another. In the following letter, a Lovefraud reader asked what she should do about the new victim:
I am finally away from the sociopath, although he still continues to contact me from time to time demanding money. He has a new target—as always, a financially secure woman, vulnerable and he has “given her a shoulder to cry on.” Her father just died, her mother has cancer and she stands to inherit some valuable land and she is already “hooked” thinking that he is “so caring” and “has been there for her and she for him.” He has told her I left him took all his money, etc.—the same story I got 10 years ago.
I’d like to be selfish in this, and just let him wander on to the new target, which means he will leave me entirely alone, but I feel so bad knowing he is going to ruin the life of a naive, vulnerable woman. My predecessor told me she “thanked God every day that I came along,” and part of me wants to do the same and let him “move on,” but I feel somewhere I should warn this woman. Had my predecessor told me everything she eventually told me, things would have been a lot different. I lost everything, including my social standing, my reputation, my integrity and self respect, not to mention my company and all my assets through his wild spending and lying about “business deals” and his abilities.
My question is this: Should I contact the other woman and tell her what I know? Or can I just “mind my own business” and let nature take its course. I wish someone had told me what I was facing.
Try to warn
This is a question I’ve heard many times. Should you warn the next victim?
In my opinion, if you can do it safely, I think you should try.
If you believe the predator fits the description of a sociopath, it may help to describe him or her that way. When people realize there is a personality disorder called sociopathy, and the disorder has distinct symptoms, it may make the warning more effective.
For example, if you said, “the guy (or woman) will cheat on you and take your money,” the next target, having already been told by the predator that you’re a disgruntled lover, may assume that you’re just bitter.
But if you said, “I believe the guy (or woman) is a sociopath, and to learn more about the disorder you should read Lovefraud.com,” maybe the person will go to the Internet, look up the behaviors and then recognize the symptoms.
Will the new victim listen?
The key question, of course, is will the new target heed your warning? We all know how good sociopaths are at flattery, soliciting pity and manipulation. The sociopath has already told the new target about all the terrible things you did to him or her. The sociopath may have the new target partially or totally brainwashed. Your words may or may not get through.
Still, you know what will happen to the new target. You know the pain and devastation the predator will inflict. You know what you’ve been through, and you don’t want to wish it on anyone.
In my view, you should try to prevent another casualty. But what do you think?
Should you try? Do you think the new victim will listen? Did someone try to warn you? Did you listen?
Please post your views on the Lovefraud Blog.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
buzzibee says:
I feel that an annonymous email with a few carefully chosen words, gentle and concerning, as you said “I believe the guy (or woman) is a sociopath, and to learn more about the disorder you should read Lovefraud.com” would plant a seed in their mind and alert them. It could create an awareness and hopefully a life-line they can grab onto before they fall into that dark abyss that we have so painfully experienced.
In this case where you lost so much I’d say “go for it” …. create a new email account for this purpose. There are loads of free and untraceable accounts available.
As much as this sounds devious and sly, we are dealing with very sick minds afterall. As long as the intentions for such practices are completely honourable and not vindictive I say go for it. In terms of the information you might offer to this new victim: “Use it or don’t, it’s up to you” BUT don’t get into a war with the person. If animosity comes back at you practice no contact. Be careful of what you say and how you say it. Don’t even reveal your true identity.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 6:05am
M.L. Gallagher says:
From what the woman wrote, it sounds like her conscience is bothering her not telling — I would tell and then let it go. I would also ask the other woman (the anonymous email idea is good!) to ‘test’ the man. i.e. Ask if she has been giving him money or if he’s borrowed any. Then suggest she put some boundaries around money — and wait for his response. Describe what she believes the response will be — and if she’s right, if he does react the way she described, the woman will have evidence that possibly he is who the woman says she is. While it may not cause her to put the brakes on entirely, she can at least be wary.
Like Donna, I believe attempting it is important — as long as it can be done safely.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 8:49am
apt/mgr says:
I wish that someone would have warned me about the man I met who wanted us to be friends. I was told that he will hurt me, but no one would elaborate and I was in the dark. He seemed so nice and caring and after where I’d been in my marriage, so broken and needy, I couldn’t think anyone could be so calculating. I wish someone would have told me what to look out for and what form it would take. I was so naive and broken, but I had no idea a man wrapped in such a nice package and coming from a very respectable family, could have done what he did. Sometimes I have this reality check, and it overwhelms me and I have to sit and ponder the events that led me to the point I’m at now.
I had no idea that someone would prey on my despair and use me. I’m actually more upset with me than him for not seeing it coming. I prided myself on being more astute than that. I had been told that he hits on women, but so do a lot of other men. I didn’t know he used women to further his means. Had I known what to be prepared for, I would have at least been able to stay one step ahead. But the most of us, I think we think that we are the one to make the difference. That there was something wrong with the other ones and they just didn’t understand him. That was my thought. What naive thinking! I plead ignorance and innocence as far as knowing what was happening. The sad part is that I really liked him and he really turned my head. They are so good at what they do, that you have a hard time determining which part is real and who is the real man. I only ever saw him in one setting, so after the fact, I started asking around. He didn’t like that. He said he could do that to me. I gave him carte blanch. I had nothing to hide.
I sometimes wonder had I been totally informed, would I have believed it. He heard me out and used my words against me, but I thought he was just caring and really had my interests at heart. This man/woman thing isn’t as easy as it should be. I’m so guarded anymore, that I don’t know who I can trust, besides my children. They give me hope that all isn’t lost. I feel so bad for the ones I hear about who have been where I’ve been. I want to say, I could have told you so, not to gloat, but to commiserate. It’s almost like a rite of passage. We can do it better. Not!
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 9:11am
apt/mgr says:
I would give someone signs to look for and just wait and see. I would bait him, just to test him. I have found if they make money and sex the top priorities, that is their motivation and ultimate goal. They flatter us to achieve their end. Flattering a woman is just a way to manipulate us. I know that, but when it comes from a really handsome man, who seems to have it together, we’re not thinking he just has us in his sights. I’ve learned that sometimes a wrapped package is just that. It’s a package filled with lies, deceit, cunning, manipulation, exploitation, etc. It’s their welfare they are concerned with. I was so blindsided by it all, that after the dust settled, I was trying to figure out how my lending him money, helped me. That’s how gone I was on his words. They really mess with our thought process. Total confusion.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 9:19am
pitanga says:
I don’t think it is a good idea to talk to her personally about this. We all know how sweet, loving and caring a psychopath can be at the beginning of a relationship, and we know this by experience. We’re blind and brainwashed by the vampire. She will not believe you. The best thing to do is to give her this website or offer her a psychopath related book. She needs to understand that this people exist and how they work and the symptoms to help her to recognize them. She needs to read the stories and different experiences that we all went through because of the involvement with a psychopath and came up with her own conclusions, or at least be alert of what she can expect from this relationship. I wished someone had given me this website seven years ago, maybe I would save myself from all the pain I’m going through right now.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 1:31pm
Free says:
I did warn the next woman. I told her some very personal things and posted it to her through her myspace account. She lives in another country by the way, and she has blasted all over her account how she is going to be the next Mrs whatever (I have since changed my last name legally, because his name wasn’t what it was cracked up to be). He met her online during our marriage and I knew he would use her to get her to marry him so he can move to the country, he has been wanting us to move there for years. She told me she was far too intelligent for someone like me to infiltrate her life with lies. She pointed out that our relationship was toxic, that theirs is a deep connection (that’s what I was brainwashed to believe also - but he’s as deep as veneer), that they have a mature love (this after she had only spent two weeks with him in person), he now lives there with her and isn’t working. She told me that she spoke to him about my lengthy email and that there are two sides and she believes his. When I sent her the email, I was terribly afraid for my safety from any repercussions of my warning her, however she has a young teenage daughter and I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t warn her. I told her in my email she may despise me and I think she probably does. But I am glad I have told her, because when her red flags start coming up… and they will… she will remember what I wrote to her. He was so devious and mean when he left us, it took me a full year to realise exactly how sick he really is and that it isn’t me who was sick (although I questioned my sanity every day). My son is devastated also. We have found an amazing spiritual counsellor and we are slowly rebuilding our lives. Would I warn her now that I know the effects that her words had on me six months ago… hell yes! You see, now I know what I have lost and I am free at last. I’ve got choices for the first time in 13 years and I can choose my own path and not have him hold me back anymore. I don’t believe he will ever amount to anything, because he needs to take away from the people who love him. That’s so sad, but not my worry anymore.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 3:13pm
Beverly says:
Im already working on it.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 3:19pm
Beverly says:
Yes, I think it is important to tell, especially if the next person has children. If you tell them and they dont believe you, that is their problem. I think if you dont tell, it is almost like you ae acting as an enabler to conceal the potential abuse.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 3:43pm
notquitebroken says:
I tried to warn several subsequent victims, and three of them have paid attention to the things I said and the warnings I sent them from dontdatehimgirl.com. He figured out what I was doing, and swore he could trace my actions (including an anonymous posting from an email address to one woman’s MySpace page) and it was terrifying for a while there, but he always stays out of legal trouble. He was very threatening, though. I’m too scared to post something to the new victim’s MySpace page, but she really deserves a warning, poor thing. She thinks she’s found the love of her life, just like every other woman he seduces, uses, “borrows” money from, dominates, and emotionally abuses. How traceable are warnings like mine? Could he really tell it was me, or was he just blaming every woman he’s damaged in scattershot fashion? She deserves a fighting chance to get out while she can. Someone needs to warn her or a member of her family who can talk to her. He is an internet predator of the worst sort.
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 4:00pm
Benzthere says:
I posted my information on dontdatehimgirl.com with the same photo I took and he used on plentyoffish.com. We met on the internet. He was informed by a “friend” his post said, of my post. So it worked. He responded with lies. I posted a rebuttal. Also ironically his lies had accused me of bank fraud, scheming, and that an investigation was underway. All lies. Last Thursday I was personally served a subpoena for information in an insurance fraud case against him. He is going to be charged with insurance fraud. His account on POF has been closed.
You reap what you sow. Because of God and Lovefraud I am well on my way to regaining my joy. Both brought me through a very bad time, wouldn’t be where finally I am now without either. I have nothing but praise and gratitude for both.
As soon as I clear it legally, I will post this update about him being charged. Of course I’ve heard from him. He sees the change in me. I expect him to use each and every one of his old behaviors. He’s already begun, first it was my fault, then I still love you’s, and then the sympathy plea as “he was just starting to get his life straightened out.” They no longer work, nor will they. My responses, when necessary are brief and direct. I have reestablished my boundaries and thus feel I have regained control of my life. He doesn’t like to get truthful public exposure nearly as well as he liked posting public lies about me.
Vengeance is not mine and I struggled with that, yet I felt I had a debt to repay to do something to warn others, based predominantly out of gratitude for my own well being. If his “friend” did see it and tell him, even if only one person is helped, then my posting and his wrath will be worthwhile. I will finish posting with as much valuable info as will fit that I gained here. I’ve already prepared my final post.
I found trying to warn a person individually didn’t work. Either I didn’t have any way of contacting her or when I did make contact, he was able to excuse me away. As DDHG becomes better known though my post has gotten a great deal of views, and if it doesn’t end up with a reputation for just trash talk, in my experience it was perfect. He’d used the net to trash me, I used it to expose him. I posted the truth, with verifiable and credible information, my email is there for any questions, I am not immediately seen as just yesterday’s bad news. It’s anyone’s choice to take it or leave it, either way I feel I’ve done my part.
So be sure and be strong before you open yourself up to “him” again. But do it–with an attitude of love for your neighbor whenever and however you can! It is bringing me the closure I needed. It’s not over yet, but I’m strong and confident that I can handle anything. Knowledge truly is powerful. I can pray for him, but that’s all I can do because the rest is up to him and not me any more. Thank you Lovefraud, you are fighting the good fight and it’s working!!
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 5:34pm
alohatraveler says:
I had a friend who told my story to one of the Bad Man’s female friends. I would say… she was under the Bad Man’s spell already. She did not believe the warning.
However, I know that not too long after, their friendship ended with her telling him, “Do not contact me again. Go get some help!!!”
My friend, who tried to warn this woman, was very upset by the experience. He has never had the experience of not being believed by someone. It was very upsetting but it gave him more understanding about what I was going through.
I do warn people anonymously via Craigslist which he uses to troll for new women. I have posted ads following his posts and I have been contacted by people from those ads. One woman that he dated for 5 months after me found me this way and we have compared our experiences. Her experiences were a little different than mine and I understand now that depending on what he is using a woman for… their experience of abuse varies quite a lot.
Anyway, it has been rewarding and validating for me let other women know about this man. I did get a email smack from him “Elise, you are and were the worst ever!!” I didn’t reply back so he does not know for sure that it was me because of the blind email system on Craigslist.
Also, the Bad Man is in the Hawaiian islands so I feel safe from CA warning other women. He is too cheap to come after me in person and he’s a coward anyway. He just liked to abuse people with email bombs.
Lastly, I think pointing someone to the resource of Lovefraud is a good way to go. Don’t bother to tell your story as you will end up sounding like a hystrical woman and the Sociopath has already set the stage for you to play that roll. Whatever you say, it will likely back up his story. People have no reason to believe that someone is lieing to them when they say you are a liar and a cheat and a disgruntled lover.
The best thing is to give them a little information, they won’t believe you at first, but when those nagging feelings that something might be wrong come up, it might put them on a faster track to realizing what is going on.
That’s my 2 cents for the day!!
Aloha…
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 8:14pm
alohatraveler says:
To notquitebroken:
Try getting a message to this victim but contacting one of her “friends” on MySpace. Let them know that you are not a jilted lover and that you want this person to know that their emotional well being as well as their bank account are in jeopardy. Also, let them know that you have chosen to go this route because you need to protect your identity. Let them know that it’s fine if they don’t believe you but suggest they educate themselves about Sociopaths for their own safety.
I did warn several women on Craigslist. In fact, I contacted women directly from their ads if I thought they seemed like someone he would choose. They all thanked me and several had been contacted by him or already went on dates and saw disturbing signs. Like Donna A., I don’t mind looking stupid to others if it saves them from what I went through. So far, the response has all been positive by using this means. Someone even found my posting on Dontdatehimgirl.com and I aksed he to remove the reference to it on Craigslist for my safety and peace and she respected that.
Good luck and always be sure to guard your safety and peace first.
Aloha.. Elise
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 8:26pm
notquitebroken says:
Thanks very much, Elise. I’ve done exactly that and contacted someone else who is listed as one of her friends and given them links to his postings on dontdatehimgirl and womansavers. I let this person know that a friend is dating someone who isn’t safe and said that if she chooses to keep seeing him, to watch out for her very carefully and not let him isolate her from everyone else. I told them to be there for her because she’s not going to want to believe a word of it, but those red flags are probably popping up everywhere. They for me, but oh my goodness, weren’t they just the most decorative things ever!
Tuesday, 11 December 2007 @ 11:36pm
Free says:
I don’t regret telling the other woman, however it won’t make any difference for a very long time. My ex-sociopath (aka The Pretender) knows how to be loving, caring, in short Mr Wonderful to lure a woman in with all of his lies, scheming and soft, sensitive voice so that you would never dream what lies beneath. I do feel sorry for her and her daughter, because she believes her dreams are attainable only now because she has met him. (Her words on her myspace page). I think that it is a very sad woman who doesn’t realise that she is powerful enough on her own to make her dreams come true. That is the kind of woman he goes for and that woman used to be me, he told me all of my dreams were the same as his, then he spent 13 years refuting them, which left me in a state of confusion, anger and devastation until I thought I was going insane. I feel sorry for her daughter, but the most important people that I need to focus on right now is myself and my son and our future. I cut complete contact a while ago from my ex and I have finally set up rules so I don’t receive any more lying emails from him. I don’t need him and his lies poisoning my life anymore. It is definitely over for me and I am glad. For a while there I wanted to send her proof of who he was, but I thought, what’s the point, it will endanger me and I will not have the healing that I need right now, and him telling her that they are all lies only does myself more emotional harm. I am saying no to anymore mental abuse in my life. She needs to believe her dreams are attainable and she is clearly needy. I did offer her family members she could phone, but she wasn’t interested. It is good for me to see who I used to be from the way she is, I can accept it now and know without a doubt it isn’t who I am anymore. It has been a hard, scary long journey and I am only getting stronger from this experience. I’m still standing, I’ve been through hell, but life has only just begun and I am grateful that I didn’t die while I was with him, because of the depression I suffered with all of his abuse. Don’t get me wrong, I still have nightmares and in the morning, it is hard to believe that I don’t have that emotional abuse daily anymore, but I get up and I put myself first. I think you should definitely warn her, but then let it go for your own emotional well being. You come first!
Wednesday, 12 December 2007 @ 2:32am
holehearted says:
Chances are the new person is in a crisis, has low self-esteem and is a perfect target.
So, after he tells her that you are the crazy one and took his money and etc. (like mine told his new love), what happens is… you trying to “warn” her…just solidifies and confirms that you are the crazy one.
Like… “see she is so nuts, she can’t even let me move on… she has to make up stories to tell you about me so you will not want to be with me…etc.”
It just makes you look crazy in that person’s eyes. You’d have to have solid proof… And usually even then, they don’t care because they are so caught up in his “love” that even if he did do those things to “you,” he would never do them to “me” because I am a better person and he really loves me.
I would say it’s a catch 22. Do you really want to save this woman from the pain and anguish you think she will endure? Or do you think somewhere in your mind that he might really love her and change for her and you don’t want to see that happen.
It’s a struggle that is not an easy one to deal with. I say count your blessings.
However, you could send her an anonymous letter or something.
Wednesday, 12 December 2007 @ 9:50am
SecretMonster says:
This is a perfect example of how most sociopaths fail. They get discovered for what they are. Their mask slips. Their cover is blown. It just complicates everything for them. This is a contradiction to a sociopath’s self serving nature, a contradiction I’ve never really understood. Isn’t in their best interest to never be discovered?
They are supposedly masters of shifting blame, and manipulation, but here you are, all of you, victims of so called sociopaths. That just screams FAILURE in my mind.
Fascinating. Is it in a sociopaths general nature to self destruct? Boredom? They secretly want to be found out for who they are?
SecretMonster
Wednesday, 12 December 2007 @ 3:28pm
Liane Leedom, M.D. says:
In my opinion the people who have a true duty to warn are the psychopath’s blood relatives. If you have a son, daughter, brother, sister, aunt, uncle or parent who is a psychopath, try to warn potential victims, if you can do so safely.
Family members should never be seen with a psychopath in such a way that they add any credence to the idea the psychopath is a “good person” Don’t let the psychopath use you to con others.
Wednesday, 12 December 2007 @ 8:07pm
knowbetternow says:
I won’t cross him in any way. He has hurt not only me but innocent people associated with me (to hurt me) when exposed in any way.
I wish it weren’t so but I believe that although maybe the lightbulb will come on earlier from a warning, it is rare that it makes a difference in preventing someone from getting hurt, and I know it can backfire on you.
I’m not going to poke the bear. I’m afraid of him and don’t care if he knows it.
Just my experience
Thursday, 13 December 2007 @ 1:21pm
Kitooze says:
A woman contacted me, through MySpace, about the sociopath I was dating. At first it was just a warning that he was two-timing me with her. I was sick and in SHOCK, but the psycho explained it away saying that he had broken up with her months ago and she just wanted him back and was trying to ruin our relationship. I believed him and wrote her back a nasty email telling her to get a life.
She was persistant and sent me several email warnings over the next few months. She always included evidence that she had just seen him (describing the clothes he wore on a particular day, what I had made him for dinner, the sunburn peeling on his back). He ALWAYS explained it away with hazy, non-sensical explanations, but I was overly trusting, and in love (lust), and I must say, she was acting like the crazy person. I chose to ignore all the red flags and chalk it up to him being brilliant and eccentric.
Fast forward — Psycho was pressuring me to marry him and have his child (I found out I was 2 months pregnant). I got a text message at 3am saying “I’m with him and we’re having a great time right now, you should join us.” I drove to his house and couldn’t find him. He wouldn’t answer my calls. Then he appeared out of the shadows saying he had gotten drunk and fallen asleep on the sofa in his parents’ house (38-year-old loser lives in the small rental house on his parents property–for free of course.) It took him a whole WEEK to convince me this time that she had manipulated the situation and that he was innocent. So the next time she called him, I grabbed the phone and threatened to kill her if she didn’t leave us alone.
The only thing that ended up saving me from a fate worse than death is that crazy B took a photo of him passed-out NAKED on his bed that night, and sent it to me and my ex-boyfriend (the crafty little snooper got his info from MySpace, too). Psycho could no longer lie. Isn’t it crazy that it took a naked photo before I would believe???
A year later I am at peace, content with my life, and EXTREMELY GREATFUL to the woman (unstable as she is) who saved me from him and a life of hell. I am only $3K in debt from him, so I know I got off easy there, too.
The woman keeps tabs on him and contacts me to tell me of every new woman or business he’s scamming. I too struggled with the question “do I just move on and live my life in peace, or do I follow my conscience and try to send a warning?” I decided one brief, to the point warning every time, and the possibility of being called a crazy myself, is better than not trying at all. I want to see him in jail where he belongs, so I look at it as my duty to take a little crap if it might help society in the end.
Thursday, 13 December 2007 @ 2:47pm
Espressogirl says:
My ex was sly and sneaky enough that I never learned about his other women until he was done with them. He left chaos in his path. It was so bizarre and confused that the telling would confound any intelligent person, so I’ll spare you.
He finally did marry one that was willing to be his slave. She mailed a few letters attacking me for unbelievable things he said I did - the exact things he really did! I never responded to any of them. It would not have done a bit of good.
I do wonder what condition she is in presently.
Thursday, 13 December 2007 @ 5:55pm
rgk22 says:
My four year experience with a sociopath, who took every bit of my self esteem, nearly destroyed me emotionally and professionally. It has taken me over a year to get to the point where I don’t think about him all the time. It has taken me that amount of time not to want him back…and I know most of you out there can understand that statement. It has taken me over a year to realize that I can live without him…and to have a clear view of how sick and evil a man he is.
Do I want to save every woman in the world from him? YES. Do I want to re-engage myself so that I am drawn back into the dark, dark world of a sociopath? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Finally…Absolutely not. Will trying to save the women of the world from him draw me back in…make me think of him…even stir up irrational jealousy of another woman…remind me of our life together? YES. Do I want that? NO. At long last…NO.
Everything I have heard from everyone who witnessed my near emotional demise from the intense mind manipulation I experienced over four years would tell me to STAY AWAY. And I get that. So my advice is STAY AWAY. You can save one woman, but you can’t save them all. SAVE YOURSELF INSTEAD.
Thursday, 13 December 2007 @ 9:57pm
CellStemCell says:
I am not sure if we have to warn the victims. First, they are caught in the web, they have already established “psychopathic bond” with psychopath, whatever you say to them will be used against you.
Second, do we have to? I am GLAD that I experienced the psychopath while being 30 yo, I have no kids no money and no property. I have learned a lot and feel myslef MUCH MUCH more secure now. So…we should let other people to get the life experience. Let them learn how court system works.
P.S. My ex wife charmed and seduced that poor 32 yo disabled guy on pain killers, who is good looking. He obviously so happy to believe that such a beautiful girl is “in love” with him. He does not know that he will simply be used as a way for her to get american citizenship, and then she will move on to her next victim.
Friday, 14 December 2007 @ 6:57pm
CellStemCell says:
Regarding sociopath’s being constantly busted and discovered, I think that it comes from their inability to plan ahead, their inability to integrate small pieces of information into one piece, it comes from their chronic irresponsibility and their deattachment (if I get busted I just move on to another victim). My ex even lies to her own mom.
I agree with Liane, blood relatives must be the ones who should warn, but it can never happen because it takes SO MUCH courage from the mother/farther to admit to themselves that their kid is psychopath. All parents are prone to those fake hopes, that one day their kid will get better…
Friday, 14 December 2007 @ 7:04pm
Barbara says:
Thank you soo much for this site. It has helped my put my experience into perspective and made me a better therapist, much better…
As for warning…I did warn the next victim. I wrote a very clear and concise letter telling her what happened to me and that I wanted to let her know. I’m sure he has already tapped her for money. How much, I’m not sure. But he is handsome, “caring” and really good at this. As a matter of fact, he is currently doing time in Chino State prison for fraud after defrauding me and my friends out of several million dollars.
I never heard back from the next girlfriend/victim. I have the feeling that she just couldn’t face the possibility that I was right because she has probably already fallen into his trap. She had plenty to loose, too. I happen to know that she had a home from a previous marriage, along with other assets. She’s a very nice person…just like myself. I pray for her.
Saturday, 15 December 2007 @ 8:44pm
Fighter says:
On our site we do exposes on cyberpaths. In the right hand margin under the heading EXPOSE THEM! there is a whole list of places to post your sociopath’s information.
Then all you have to say to the perspective victim is “do yourself a favor and google him”
Be ready for the tired ole’ “she’s a scorned woman” defense. And when you post them, make the information so general they may not know its from you. If you can link to court or jail information already online about them - that’s a plus.
Saturday, 15 December 2007 @ 10:19pm
Happy2BFree says:
After living 15 years with a socio-psycho, having been warned in the beginning, not listening myself, and now seeing his continued behavior even after jail time, a year of freedom and now back in jail, I wanted so desperately to clue these other people in. I came to realize that in most instances you’re not taken seriously, how could such a great, generous, loving……you name the adjective, be such a bad person, how could he really be like that, you are a woman scorned…..
I’ll offer information if asked, and like the comment posted by Fighter, just tell them to google the con, see what’s out there.
It’s not made national news, but our local news is having a grandiose time with the latest victims and particpants of my ex’s last esccapade…I’m just so glad that I was not a part of it, that I had already been freed from this relationship.
Sunday, 16 December 2007 @ 5:40pm
beentheredonethat says:
I warned. One heeded after a while, but perhaps she was more astute and didn’t buy into his crap. The others went right to him and said oh honey, look at these awful things being said about you. There were comments on a website from many women this man had decieved. Did she listen. No. She stood by his side thinking their amazing connection (after 2 weeks) was true, soul matched love. You see, she was already hooked and bought his lies about how it was the other crazy women who were full spite, no doubt.
But I felt compelled to do my civic duty on behalf of womanhood. I did not want to punish him or get back. I wanted to put it out in the universe because maybe, if someone had warned me I would not have had to experience the soul torturing hell of life with a narcissist/socio and the unbearable difficult healing…the lost time. The crushed spirit. I wanted to spare another soul. But they don’t listen. Would you? Would you really when you’re in the throws of the charm phase? Did you even listen to your own inner voice when the red flags appeared? neither did I. So why would anyone listen to a stranger. The bitter ex no less.
Yes, deep down we all fear she will be the one he truly loves. Well, you were once that woman to the one who preceded you. And looked what happened. It will happen again, but once he knows his current victim has been warned, he is like a virus and will mutate his agenda and game to be even better at it next time. So truth is, we might actually be facilitating his sickness onto another by helping him evolve to an even higher level of deception.
It just goes to show that these predators can always find the wounded zebra in the herd. And there are so many, we were once one too.
I would say, from experience, trying to warn just keeps you in the sick game. And it never works.
Sunday, 16 December 2007 @ 11:51pm
cls0755 says:
Shouldn’t you still try to warn women if the man has been convicted of felony domestic violence and multiple counts of misdemeanor injury to children? The man I was involved with had these convictions before I met him (he said he hit his wife by accident and he really hadn’t hurt the children any more than that a lot of other people who had unintentionally put their children in harm’s way - the conviction for the injury to the children was the result of a jury trial), and while I was with him, he was charged with a felony assault of a police officer - he later pleaded guilty to the charge. He also had been accused of molesting step-children from two different marriages (though charged, he was never convicted). Also, the breaking point in our relationship was when he broke into my home, raped me and during the whole ordeal, he repeatedly threatened to hit me, mutilate me and kill me. I did file a police report but nothing has been done. I briefly posted him on dontdatehimgirl.com but removed the posting after he contacted me and called me names, asked why I would hurt him like that, etc. The counselor I’ve been going to, who met with him and I together before this happened believes he is a psychopath, in part because of his violent past but also because he said he didn’t see what the big deal was - he was just being mean and he would have really never hurt me. I’ll never know because I complied with every sexual demand he made and eventually got free and ran out of my house without my clothes on to get help. That night, based upon his violent past and the look in his eyes when he alternately yelled at me or coldly told me he was going to slit me open, I believed I would be dead that night if I didn’t get away.
I have thought of reposting him. I only found about his past in bits and pieces. He has a sister whom I talked to when I first was going out with him. She would only tell me, if anything, he had a drinking problem. I do not count on her to warn anyone about her brother’s violent nature and that he is a full blown alcoholic. She told me a lot more toward the end of out relationship and only after I was finding out for myself he had a lot more issues than just a drinking problem.
I and others believe unless he gets help - which he says he doesn’t need, he will do this again to another woman and maybe even kill her. It hasn’t been an easy decision as to how much effort I should make to warn others and still be safe.
Monday, 17 December 2007 @ 2:35am
Espressogirl says:
I don’t think it does a bit of good to warn anyone. It just fuels the fire. Somehow that other person pulled a psychopath to them - maybe it is something they have to learn about, too.
My mother married a psychopath who did finally murder her. She had been warned by his 3rd ex wife. Nobody could have talked her out of being with the guy. It was like some final destination for them both, a downward spiral, sort of like that movie “War of the Roses”.
I ended up raising their daughter (my 1/2 sister) with no help from her father and was glad to do it - that was 30 years ago and it all turned out fine in the end, it really did. With everyone the wiser for it. (He ended up dying a toothless bum in some seedy hotel)
Tuesday, 18 December 2007 @ 9:26pm
wp says:
I think this topic is very important and ought to be discussed more.
I personally don’t think there’s any broadly correct answer to it. I think it depends… on many things, and every situation should be considered on its own.
Sure, I think one has a certain moral obligation to attempt to warn someone else of danger, if it doesn’t put the warner in danger, of course.
BUT. That the danger could come from the person you are warning!
I think people who are setting out to warn someone else should probably decide whether they’re healed from the situation enough to handle the potential reactions of the person they’re warning.
It can be emotionally devastating to have someone verbally cut you down because they think the sociopath is the cat’s pajamas… They may call you the scorned woman making up lies, accuse you of being jealous, or launch any number of verbal attacks against you… though it’s actually against the unacceptable information you’re attempting to report, and they just don’t want to hear.
And the danger could be worse. I have heard of women who committed criminal acts against ex-girlfriends of their new lover… thinking all the while that they were right & just, and that these exes deserve to pay… because the guy convinced them of it.
So in some cases, I think it’s more important to keep your own sanity, dignity, emotional stability, and certainly your own well-being, than to stick your neck out to warn other people.
Specific other people.
Instead of that, I generally spread the word about the tactics of sociopaths & narcissists when the opportunities present, and the person is actually interested, with anyone I know or meet if it’s appropriate or timely.
For example, I don’t go out of my way to try and educate people against their will. That’s just wrong, of course.
But if someone starts talking on the topic of strange or inappropriate behavior of people, or liars, or things of that nature, I will relate the interesting and useful things I’ve learned about sociopaths and narcissists from the books I’ve read.
If someone has one in their life, they usually ask me for full information on the books I’m talking about, and I give it to them. At least 2 people I know of have bought “The Sociopath Next Door” after the topic came up casually and I recommended it.
Maybe I don’t have the time, energy, or desire to go follow around the disturbed individuals I’ve known over the years, to try and warn the people they’re preying on these days…
But I know I’ve done the right thing, and continue to do the right thing.
And maybe it’s helped somebody. Even if it was somebody hurt by someone I don’t know from adam.
And therefore I do it without stepping personally into the active co-dependent cesspool that whirls & orbits around sociopaths, narcissists, and the like.
Because besides, I’ve found when I step into that quagmire, I wind up being hurt more than I’ve been helpful. I don’t go there unless I’m pretty sure the good will WELL outweigh the potential ill. The cost/benefit ratio just really sucks in that pond usually.
Thursday, 20 December 2007 @ 4:55pm
loux2 says:
Been there, done that - and the result was horrible.
As mentioned in the article, it could very well be perceived that you are a bitter, disgruntled ex… and that was exactly how his current victim viewed me.
Always keep in mind that they have ‘planned’ out their deception with current victims and/or future victims - they have already ’sold’ them that you are ‘crazy’, ‘unstable’ and that you may well attempt to contact them to ’slander’ them. They have already told them horrible stories of you, embellished with exaggerations and out-right lies… it’s called a ’smear campaign’… and they definitely WILL Use your disclosures to criticize, blame, or discount you.
He did that to me - described his ex’s as ‘nut jobs’ and even gave specific examples.
In response to my warning to current victim - she said she ‘knows all’ - including my ‘horrible’ emails, etc… Of course, when I learned the truth of what was REALLY going on my emails were ‘horrible’ (found out that while he was proclaiming his exclusive devotion and commitment to me and actively planning our marriage, that he was cheating on me behind my back with not only THIS person; but another as well). Who in their right mind would react kindly to such emotional abuse, lies and outright deception!
It is beyond my comprehension how people can believe what someone says soley on ‘face value’ and in blind faith without finding out the whole story - myself, I am guilty of the same exact behavior… I did this very same thing with exN. Learned a HUGE lesson there - if all of your ex’s are ‘crazy’, ‘obsessive’ and/or ‘delusional’ … what on earth attracted you to them in the first place?? If they weren’t ‘nutty’ BEFORE you… what exactly makes them so NOW? Definitely worth investigation b/d *sometimes* just sometimes if everyone in your wake is ‘crazy’… sometimes it’s NOT everyone else!
Take it from me - sometimes warning current victims IS NOT worth it. They are already ’sold’ (just remember back to that time when you were ’sold’ - would you have believed anything negative an ex told you??) For me, all it did was allow him to injure me ONE MORE TIME.
Sunday, 24 February 2008 @ 6:23pm
OxDrover says:
loux2,
I agree with you totally. I did learn this lesson years ago when I was very young and my “very first love” (READ: crush and infatuation) turned out to be a player. I was just crushed and I went to my “big brother” (a close male friend who was my parent’s age) and sobbed out my story of pain and betrayal and he smiled and said, “I knew” and I screamed at him, “WHY didn’t you tell me.?” He looked at me and smiled and said, “Would you have believed me?”
It took me a minute to realize that HE WAS RIGHT. I WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED HIM.
Years later when I was working in student health at a nice little liberal arts college one of the student’s I had become friends with (and who had formerly been dating a girl I thought was personality disordered) came tome and told me he had broken up with her, etc etc ya da ya da. I said someting about I am glad that you are doing well, and I think you might find a more suitable partner and that (said casually) “I didn’t think you and she would be suitable” and he said “WHY didn’t you tell me?” and I smiled, as my friend had done 40 years previously and said “Would you have believed me?”
The very sharp young man thought a minute with his head cocked to the side and then smiled and said “Nah, I don’t guess I would have.”
My step dad, a school teacher, was very adept at “reading people” and when I would come home with a new friend (male or female) with whom I was “enchanted” sometimes he would tell me later, very casually, and quietly. “Hon, she/he won’t do” and I of course knew better and what a great kid they were —-and he was NEVER wrong. And I never believed him until afterwards….he never said “I told you so” (for which I bless him, but he HAD TOLD ME)
And, to his credit, he never fell for my P-son’s “repentence” but he didn’t badger me about my “beliefs” in my son’s repentence. He was already deceased when I dated my P-BF but I have no doubt that if he had met him, he would have seen right through him.
I wish now that I had asked him WHAT he saw in these people that were RED FLAGS for him, it didn’t take much though, because he didn’t have to be around them more than a time or two to make his judgment that “they wouldn’t do.”
He might not have even been able to put a “name” on what he saw, but some how he did. I have known others that seemed to have some way of picking out the “bad guys” from the good ones, but not as well as he did.
I only give “advice” to people who ask me “what do you think about my new BF/GF?” then I will say an honest (if tactful) answer unless I know that they have a criminal record or something like that, or know that they have outright lied to their new “love”–but, no, I agree with Loux that most people won’t believe you if they have already made up their mind that this is “prince/ss charming.”
Sunday, 24 February 2008 @ 6:39pm
righteous woman says:
I did it!! I warned a potential victim and she took me seriously!!
The S and I are headed to court on Monday. He has a Myspace to promote his music career. He can’t pay child support but he has professional portraits done…a customized car. Sometimes he brags about connections and what not. I am trying to gather the proof anyway I can to verify that he has an income as a music producer…and is earning his living, tax free, doing it.
So I have been doing some covert cyber-snooping. He has 400+ friends and I have looked at everyone of their profiles to find his music clients. Turns out 10 are clients, 430 are ‘fans’.
He has his profile set up saying he lives in Georgia and Beverly Hills. Uh - He lives in San Diego.
So, there was this one girls profile I read..she seemed very sweet and had pictures of her kids and her mom and admitted to living in foster care. And I noticed she was leaving some personal comments on his page…comments that say “I am feeling close to you”. Well, He would delete these comments. So I KNEW she was a potential victim. He lives with a woman now, and he deleted his girlfriends comments too.
So I thought and thought…and finally decided to make an anonymous myspace page and I sent her an e-mail. I spelled it out without making it personal..I sent her the links to what makes a person a sociopath and to Lovefraud. Her first reaction was of course to assume that I was a former girlfriend..or even a current jealous girlfriend…Jealous period…But she remained open minded. She said that they were only talking online and he seemed nice - you know how that goes. I sent his current girlfriends myspace page to her with pictures of them together…So her eyes were opened now. So She sent him an email that said “So do you have a girlfriend” I told her he would avoid answering initially. He responded “Why? Do you want to fill out an application for the position?” And she hunkered down and asked “why didn’t you answer my question?” and he replied “No. Why? Do you want to try for the position?” ANd she was e-mailing me at the same time and I was breaking down what he meant and what he would do next “If you want to get personal, then call me XXX-XXX-XXXX and we can go over it personally. Call me Right Now.” Well, she didn’t call and and she didn’t respond to his emails. So then he starts sending her e-mails “What is wrong with you, what kind of game are you playing? I gave you my number twice and you didn’t call.” Mind you, it has only been 1 or two hours, this all happened this morning. He said” Answer why ur actin all funny? I thought u were cool?? But if u wanna play games.. i’m deleting u as my friend.. Don’t have time 4 bullsht…U got til tomorrow 2 answer.. then i’m pullin ur plugs!
So then he goes into CAPS MODE “YOU ARE A WEIRDO. IF YOU DON’T RESPOND TO ME, I AM DELETING YOU AND YOU WILL HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF FOR PLAYING GAMES” then he went to delete her from his friends and she had already deleted herself and he said “F-ING COWARD!! I SEE YOU ALREADY DELETED YOURSELF BEFORE i COULD DO IT To which she replied “Ah, I see your true colors are coming out, good luck with your career. Take care”
And He replied “No - your true colors are coming out. Mine stay out. So why won’t you call me? wtf? why are you being this way?” He turns back to sweet in mellow in 5 minutes. And that was the end. She got the picture. I was right there schooling her on deception and avoidance tactics and blame shifting and him attempting to make her distrust her instincts….And he showed off just like I knew he would. But I feel so great.
Sadly, there are about 50 other potential victims in his city listed as friends, and 380 in the world that have signed on and agreed to be his friends. There are some that look they don’t have enough self esteem to trust themselves or any other woman.
I just thought about this girl, and her kids, and being a single mother, and having your youth and your beauty and happiness, and I just knew he could rip it away from her. She is a really nice girl from talking to her period, and maybe I made a new friend out of it myself.
Bye for now…
RW
Friday, 14 March 2008 @ 6:16pm
Glinda says:
Congrats RW. That is a nice story to read!
Friday, 14 March 2008 @ 11:13pm
alohatraveler says:
To Righteous Woman.
Girl! I share your joy in this! It is scary creeping out on the ledge to help someone but you may have averted disaster.
I have had the pleasure of helping 3 women directly that found me or I found them through CL. Two of them I guess I kind of consider my friends in a weird sort of way. They are wonderful women.
One dated the Bad Man for 5 months and the other was lured to the islands and relocated there in part due to their online conversations… she thought he was the man of her dreams.. sound familiar? She lives on Maui now… in FACT.. in the STRANGEST twist of events, she lives on the same property where I lived with the Bad Man and works for the couple that we rented from at their “center for healing” which I will leave the name out. They are a piece of work too. So this woman has now made contact with three of the darkest characters on Maui. How sad is that?
And every day, she walks in my footsteps, and washes her clothes in the machine where I washed my clothes and works for the tweekers I lived under… and listened to their bizarre arguing.. bizarre in that they were relatioship coaches and they sounded like a couple of third graders fighting… but with bad words.. really bad words.
Anyway, it is powerful when you know your stuff inside and out and you were able to predict your BM’s every move before he did it. I am sure you had that woman’s attention. Tell her that there are probably 50 or so readers that are applauding her right now.. and you RW.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 2:12am
findingmyselfagain says:
I had the opportunity tonight! I battled inside whether I should say anything or not. He and I just ended in December. I have ended it for four times in two years now. He talks me back in and we go the whole pattern. Well, he always blames me for “probably have some man on the side I’m wanting to see, so I dump him”. It has nothing to do with any man, its been his cheating and lying! I was in love with him the entire time, hurts and all.
Well tonight I went to a concert and who should walk in all touchy, feeling, lovey-dovey.. but him and a woman. A bit later she walked out right past me to the restroom.. so I took a chance and went there too. As luck would have it, we had the sink area to ourselves and I told her I noticed who she was with and as a woman-to-woman I wanted to warn her of what she was getting into.. his treatment of me, and his ex wife of 22 years, and 3 other woman I that have talked to me or I to them about their relationships with him. All the same.. Sociopathic all over it.
She was shocked, she said they’d dated a month now and it seemed sooo very unlike him! I told her that during this time, he will treat you like a queen, you will be so wined and dined and catered to - that you think you found the best guy ever. But give it time, and the sneaky stuff begins..
Anyway - I feel good to have helped her out ( she is pondering it all very deeply. Could see it in her face during the concert) but yet I’m a little afraid of when he finds out. That is the scary part of it, is the S finding out. She was very thankful to me and appreciative. I dont know what she’ll do, but hopefully not go 2 years like I did before she sees it all.
His last girlfriend did me the favor and clued me in. He was actually sleeping with her all along. She didnt know he and I were that serious, she claimed. We were, for 2 years and spent tons of time together. He must have alot of energy for 56. I’m 44 and she’s 45 and how did he manage to live two lives, I’ll never know.
But Wow did it hurt tonight to see someone in “my place”. He took her to see music we used to see, all snuggly and happy as clams. yuck.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 2:39am
OxDrover says:
The question to warn or not to warn is a tough one. You feel bad if you stand by and watch someone pick up a poison snake. Yet, many times they look at you as “the woman scorned” (which isn’t unreasonable to think in their position). Also many times by the time you get the chance to tell them, they are so deep in the N-fog that they can’t see the truth in what you said, because of the “honeymoon” phase they are in.
If she tells him what you told her (and she may) it may actually provoke him to spite, malice, revenge and/or violence. They never forget a slight and seldom don’t try to get revenge for it. If per chance you do get some potential victim to listen and the P knows it was you that warned them, be on the look out for what they may do to you.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 3:20am
Free says:
Righteous Woman - You go girl!
No woman deserves to go through this, to have her soul shredded by such a man, nor does her children. Especially her children.
What you did was a good thing.
I still worry about the other woman’s daughter, but all I can do is say a prayer for her now, her mother did not believe a single word I told her about my ex and she didn’t believe me when I told her how dangerous he is and that he needs professional help. I hope like hell he never hurts her.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 3:23am
Free says:
findingmyselfagain - what you did was a brave thing. I really believe that, please take care of yourself and always put your emotional and physical safety first when it comes to that man.
I know we can come across as the scorned ex, but you know something, I couldn’t live with myself if I had of sat back and said nothing. There is no leaving a footprint if anything ever happens later on down the track. But we need to be safe in doing so. I believe that we need to look out for our sisters. I don’t think that is a naive thing to do. It shows that we appreciate another woman’s worth and nobody deserves that kind of abuse in her life.
I wouldn’t hesitate in saving a dog if it was being looked after by someone who had abused a dog previously, that’s why I had to warn the other woman.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 3:32am
Tami Newman says:
I have tried repeatedly to warn my ex s current victim. She just can’t see past him! I’ve directed her to the information and she’ll tell me that the info doesn’t fit him at all. I keep telling her that she doesn’t know him. She admits that he requires her undivided attention 24/7 but says she doesn’t mind giving it to him. Then, she tell me that it’s stressful for her. I’ve told her that he treated every woman in his past exactly as he treated me. He tells her that he treated me worse than anyone. She believes him–everything he says. She keeps coming back with “he says he REALLY loves me, he says he’s REALLY happy with ME”. It’s all about he says, he says, he says. All I can say is that the poor girl is stupid. He’s already gotten her over $30,000 in debt. He’s told her that he does believe that he has a problem and should probably see a counselor but doesn’t follow through. One minute he tells her that I was good to him and the next minute that I treated him badly and deserved everything he did to me. The girl is so blinded that she can’t even catch his contradictions! And, to be quite honest, she’s a fiesty little thing herself. Plays a lot of games. Flirts with other guys to try to make him jealous, etc. I’m starting to wonder if they aren’t two of a kind! When she told me that everyone thought I was crazy, I finally gave up–decided to just let her learn the hard way. She’ll see who the crazy one is in time!
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 6:34am
EnnLondon says:
You are very brave ladies.
So many of my ex’s victims were ‘warned’ (including me) but without a peg to hang stuff on (ie the diagnosis ’sociopathy’) many of us persisted in feeling sorry for him, persuaded by him and thinking surely NOBODY could be that bad/hard-faced.
After a period of wondering if I should carry on warning potential victims I realised that there were too many of them, that I would end up being seen as having ulterior motives, and that I had to accept that regardless of who I warned that he would find a victim somewhere. I just hoped that it wouldn’t be someone I knew and liked and worked with!
I think that it’s so important for us to educate everyone we know. I’ve lost count of how many people I’ve recommended this site to. The book I’ve been writing is now heavily focused on this sort of message. Even if only my mates get to read it then that’s something!
Good on you two for doing this, as it took real guts - not just because of the the potential of being regarded as ’scorned’ or the P getting annoyed with you, but the fact that any contact with these monsters brings up all sorts of horrible memories and feelings.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 7:02am
v.abraded says:
I am new to this group so would like to say hello to you all! I seem to have been totally preoccupied this week with trying to find out about sociopathic behaviour. For thirteen years I have been involved with what I now know is truly dangerous man and has turned out to be one of my worst nighmares, although it would appear that most of you have been involved with men who have taken you for financial gain, I have had the opposite the man I loved has been generous with money, frugal with the truth and a convincing liar, on his journey he has tainted my children, my family and my friends, and I have allowed it to happen. He is a powerful man and is well known in the business world. I now seem to be spending my days and nights asking myself how I could have been so naive, for so long. Initially he chose to target me when I was at my most vulnerable, my health and marriage were in tatters, I was an attractive victim, he claimed to be, unhappy, mistreated, misundertood, unwanted, bottom of the pile etc…. I finally divorced my husband and life although tough was good, my children were happy and accepted him into their hearts he became their good friend. Little did I realise that all the time he was leading a triple life. Anyway enough of this, I am in the position of now having finally exposed him and having written him a ‘your game’s up letter’ I hear he is now trying to rekindle his marriage his wife who has turned into a beautiful butterfly since their divorce three years ago she used to be rather dowdy with low self esteem due to being at at home full time Mother of four) is now having a fantastic life, she divorced him for millions however her children and family life mean the world to her, even though she has been humiliated by his actions he has seduced Mothers of his childrens friends, and a myriad of unsuspecting women. I have to somehow let her know and warn her, she is not a stupid woman and must know some of his history.. but not all, I could say let them get on with it but I do know what his ulteria motive is and it certainly isn’t because he loves her, it’s all about power and fortune because she has what he thinks is his and doesn’t want another man to have HER or HIS money. Unfortunately he did have a very deprived childhood this may be what has contributed to his phyche but he is never the less dangerous in every way… any advise would be gratefully received.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 7:41am
OxDrover says:
Dear V.abraded,
I read your other post about not knowing how to move forward. I assumed you were still entangled with this man, now I am not so sure what your actual situation is.
As far as warning his x-wife, my opinion for what it is worth, and not knowing the details etc, would be that you need to concentrate on YOU right now. She knows him if they lived together for so long, and if she is reenteraining a relationship with him now, I would be willing to bet that she knows a great deal of his behavioral history. If they have only been divorced for three years and you have been in a relationship with him for 13 years, I would be willing to bet that she would only see you as a scorned woman.
My advise to you in all aspects of your life is get free of this man, and take care of yourself. Get whatever help you can and support you can from your friends and read and learn about sociopaths/psychopaths. God bless you and help your healing. ((hugs)))
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 9:02am
v.abraded says:
Dear OxDrover He was so adept at convincing me and so many others that he had an open marriage, he even employed a close friend of mine as his PA and involved her with his family affairs and she confirmed that they did have a dysfunctional relationship albeit created by him. this man for all his wealth is so convincing, he tells such a sad story. I have so much to tell his wife, which involved his children in an extremely manipulative sick way.Yes he is dangerous, but only because of his influencial position, I have doubted myself for so long and totally forgotten who I am, with the I will love you forever scenario. I also realise that the letter I sent him could send him over the edge and without being dramatic I am fearful and know I maybe shouldn’t have done it but for my own sanity felt he had to be exposed, even now I am battling with the thought that he may be the one in the right and that it is me.. but deep down I know that isn’t the case and have to come to terms with it
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 10:27am
OxDrover says:
V.abraded, you may have allowed him to treat you that way, but you do not deserve to be treated that way. He is NOT right to treat you poorly or to use you. Don’t doubt that. Say it over and over if you must, “I deserve to be treated well” “he does NOT treat me well.”
We have all allowed them for some period of time to treat us poorly because we wanted to believe that they loved us, but they cannot love.
You believed a lie. That does not make you bad. Now that you know the truth, there are still consequences for having believed the lie, but you can recover now that you know the TRUTH. You can heal. You can get away from him. Godspeed.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 10:57am
Tami Newman says:
I totally agree. His ex wife has to know what he is capable of. I spent 8 years with my s and is girlfriend of 2 months wouldn’t listen to me–only to his lies. And, yes, I understand because I got caught up in his lies when people tried to warn me about him. There’s only so much we can do, and we can drive ourselves nuts trying. I’ve finally cut off all communication with the girlfriend because communicating with her about him only kept his mistreatment of me on my mind. I want to forget about him and move on. Now, that I’ve accepted that he is a very sick man and that I did nothing to deserve his treatment, I am SO very thankful that he is no longer a part of my life. Communicating with the girlfriend just kept him in my life. I cleanse myself of his filth and had to give up on her to do it.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 12:08pm
righteous woman says:
Good morning all -
V.Abraded - I spent 20 (’85-’05)years tangled up in a non committed relationship with a sociopath. He is my son’s father, and for a multitude of honest reasons, I didn’t start to untangle myself until year 17(2002)…then it took 3 more years to get the “spider-webs” off of me. Now, after 23-years, I am looking back and I am like ‘well, that was all for nothing.’
Since we were uncommitted, I dated men (looking for someone to save me). Meanwhile, he lived with 7 other women + me at one point, from 88 -present. And each relationship he had was as worthless to him as the next. He cheated on all of them…with me…and god knows how many other women. Meanwhile, these women loved him, some saw a future with him. A couple wised up quickly. There were some I ended up talking to…None of them walked straight away. They were living together and in too deep…Now, over the course of ‘our’ lifetime, I have talked to somewhere around 15 women that he was casually dating or living with. The majority of the remaining 8 headed directly for the exit. The ones that were living with him…he had it all worked out what he would say about me; after all, he had been through this with me before, and there was ammunition in that alone to make me an unreliable source of information. There is a brick wall outside, I wanted it to change colors…Well, it got painted…that is more than I can say for the women that lived with him.
All of the women that previously lived with him that I have spoken to, all have the same story. They asked him to move out, they wanted a break up: but he convinced them he would do better, do right, shamed them, and ended up with a ’stay’ on his eviction. Little did any of them know, he was already working on his next victim. And he slowly, but surely moved into the next victims house, and out of theirs…and didn’t even bother to tell the previous victim. They were going out of their minds, wondering what part of the earth he had fallen off of? Where was he sleeping? Why didn’t he come home? They became little investigators and found out that he had moved into another womans home. Why didn’t he tell them? Because that would have given them closure, and he needed to make sure that door was open in case he wanted to come back.
When I was reading about the ex-wife, V.abraded, I was picturing this web from a similar spider. My S wasn’t a money taker from me (not to say that there was never money provided stupidly), so, in that sense..I always felt I was treated better (LOL). But he has WITHHELD 40k in child support…anyway, that is neither here nor there. Back to the ex wife. Warning her? You can’t warn someone who has studied the leopard already. You can have a woman to woman chat with her. Call and ask for an opportunity to talk with her, apologize for your part in whatever hurt you caused her. And have the discussion based on closure for yourself…not on jealousy. They may not have ANYTHING going, he could have lied to you about her willingness to take him back. You could inform her of the actions about the children. Bury that hatchet and work together. She is healing too..she looks great and now HAS A SELF ESTEEM, because the person who was telling her she was worthless is NOT a MAJOR FACTOR in her life. With a sociopath, there are always several things you don’t know. They use diversion and manipulation…and you are still in very deep, emotionally. He will never give you the closure you need. You have to make your own closure…just like when there is a sudden death from car accident or airplane crash…that is the kind of loss you are experiencing, except your ‘dead’ one is coming back and picking at your scabs.
Sounds like you have started to take some steps forward, keep on that path. Pick up the phone, or have her mutual friend do it (That is how I became friends with my sons,sisters, mother, the kids are 9 months and 7 days apart in age, do the math, and you can figure the sum of the hurt). You never know, you may find someone who strengthens you. She is NOT everything he ever told you. She is probably not even a quarter of the things he told you. He is a LIAR. Everything he says is a lie and serves some ulterior motive. EVERYTHING. There is always a game in play. Settling down and having a wife, is to serve some other purpose, not because he wants to be settled down.
I will be curious to know what you decide and the actions you took to implement the beginning of this part of your healing process….Keep us “Posted”.
RW
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 1:00pm
v.abraded says:
Thank you all so much for your comments and input, have spent the day mooning about (British Time!) taken my sweet dog out and generally felt sorry for myself, why is it that when the sun goes down thoughts turn to that complete waster? One thing I didn’t mention is that for the past year he has been impotent, and I even blame that on myself although I know he is taking various drugs for his heart condition and have looked them up and yes impotence is a side effect… so the thoughts and blame go around and around making me feel less and less like a woman, but I know I am not unattractive apart from scowling at every man I come into contact with .It all reads like a really bad novel, a ball of string, however hard you pull the end the ball becomes tighter. Part of me feels sorry for him because he has made such a complete hash of his life, regardless of money and power he really doesn’t have anything tangible in his life, and even buys his childrens affection with generous allowances, none of them has ever worked, all public school educated, and one of his sons was sent home for bullying and drugs, he almost found that funny and wasn’t in the least embarrassed by having to visit the headmaster, and yes I did make the comment to him that I hoped his children hadn’t inherited his traits. He spends his time with people who don’t know him flies around in high circles, I’m glad I haven’t got to see him again because quite honestly I think I would smack his veneered teeth down his throat, but that is the anger in me it has to go somewhere so I put it into words. One day maybe I will see the funny side because there really has to be one? Take care all of you
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 1:24pm
righteous woman says:
Impotent? - Awesome! - That is as good as having it fall off!!!
Don’t blame yourself for anything he feels, wants, needs, desires or lacks. Think about what You FEEL, WANT, NEED, DESIRE AND LACK. And don’t have it have anything to do with him. S/N do the blame game so well..and plant it in your mind…like farmer that drops seeds onto the soil…simple as that. You are not a pile of dirt. A good con man can turn anything into your fault…just remember, if not for him chasing after you in the first place, and the 1st lie and the second lie and so on…YOU wouldn’t be in this situation…Not your fault…HIS fault. Don’t take responsibility for anything for him.
I wish you well…Have a beautiful evening -
RW
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 2:24pm
Tami Newman says:
LOL! The girlfriend that I’ve tried so hard to warn says that my ex S is having ED problems so she’s not really worried about him cheating on her! Yeah, right….then she says that she can’t even brush her teeth for him copping feels! Boy, Can I ever relate to that. The two must surely deserve each other!
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 9:12pm
Glinda says:
Hm, I would think it would be humbling for a sociopath to have to admit to being impotent. Being “Mr. Big Shot,” seems to include big studly sexual prowess. The xs told me that he was struggling with the same thing. Only it seems that he just wanted me to stop pestering him. For the 3 yrs he said he was impotent, he was sexually assaulting my daughter. The ED was just another ruse.
While a sociopath unable to perform is a pleasant notion, I wouldn’t just take their word for it.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 10:57pm
righteous woman says:
Oh yes…I meant to comment on the lying aspect of the impotence thing and it slipped my mind…How right you are..It was probably a big fat lie.
Saturday, 15 March 2008 @ 11:31pm
findingmyselfagain says:
I often wondered why my S was often impotent- and in the beginning I atributed it to being 56 and having some heart/circulation problems, but often it entered my mind that between having an active sexual relationship with me and how much did he cheat on the side to the point that by the time we were together in the week, he was worn out already. By the end of our relationship I could pretty much be sure he was using up all his energy burning the candle at both ends. So ya, who knows if an S is actually impotent or not. The answer is a big secret, along with everything else.
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 1:03am
v.abraded says:
And the questions go around and around.. regarding impotence… it would be interesting if the phychologists could answer this one, not sure how this site works and whether there are any professionals who read it? And guess the other scary thing is the S/Ps who read the site too, could we be feeding their egotistical sick minds.. I am sure the ones of greater intelligence have the ability to manipulate the norm, which probably makes them even more dangerous. Have to leave this subject because it goes around and around. I think we should have a thread which could make some of us laugh, because amongst all of the grief and heartache we must have some funny stories to share? I know I have a few! So what do you think
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 2:32am
Tami Newman says:
Ladies, I think we may be onto something here. My xs girlfriend, the one I kept trying to warn about him, told me that she wasn’t too worried about him cheating on her because he had started having problems with ED! He just turned 40! She told me this about 4 months after he left me. I know one thing for sure, if he is having ED he CERTAINLY wan’t having any problems when he left here! He seemed to be able to perform 2-3 times a day–with everyone he could find and then come home to me and want more!
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 3:31am
v.abraded says:
Tami.. so.. what can we all do about it, finding answers is part of the cure, solidarity and support is something we all need even though most of us are thousands of miles apart, networking/help groups on a face to face basis has to be helpful, there must be a way to set something up. It took me a while to find this site and it shouldn’t be so difficult, there are literally millions of women out there who are in this ghastly position, who are utterly crushed and lonely, and there are millions out there who are waiting to be victims. When my girls attended their secondary school it was ran by a fantastic guy who would not tolerate bullying in any shape and he used to expose the bully by calling him to the stage during assemble and warning the other pupils, exposing the bully and recommending that everyone stayed clear. My nephew was a target of bullying and he finally had a severe nervous breakdown. Why should these extremely dangerous men get away with it… God I’m angry but also would love to be proactive in some way
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 3:53am
jules says:
so how do we find out the answers to what they did, i am healing but there is alot of stuf i still do not know. it doesnt really matter but i still think it would help more to know. how do we find out some of the things they do and lies they tell .how did everyone on her find out things. i cant access his phone bills anymore i did at first cause they still came to my address but not now. it did shed a lot of light though and it helped me to see him for who he really was. any sugestions. thanks.
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 8:49am
v.abraded says:
Its the us not knowing that really may give them a huge kick, after all they are without conscience or emotion, but some of them are so cunning and clever, yes its good for us all to air our thoughts get things off our chests, but even when they are exposed they still continue with their games, still go on to do further damage. I seem to be spending a considerable amount of time asking the ‘whys’ to the detriment of not being able to focus on the future which I now have to do. Its the people who really don’t realise what they are dealing with, we are the strong ones the next victims are the weak ones and should be helped. We have some great editors who would probably delight in a juicy story, we don’t have to individualise past victims but publication would be an achievement and could change things and make us stronger in the knowledge that there is solidarity? Comments please V
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 9:15am
findingmyselfagain says:
jules I know the “needing to know more” thing is haunting. I only count myself lucky in a sick sort of way to have stumbled onto the truths that I did. I dont think there is a way to really go seek the truth about what the S did with his time in reality. It has to just accidentally come out somehow, thru weird circumstances only did I find out some real truth about what all was going on at different times.
My opinion is that whatever you do already either know or feel thru intuition is enough for you to have ended up on this site. Therefore, try to let the past be the past and move forward on your knowledge, though you will always wish you knew more, as if it would somehow further prove to yourself that he is a creep.
As my mom kept telling me, just to know he is a creep, is enough to move on, based on the fact that he is a very high risk relationship. The odds that he is cheating, lying, manipulating etc… are too high to even think maybe he’s not such a creep afterall.
Human nature is to really really want to know more - but in my opinion, its best to try to control that urge, and move your energy forward to better thoughts, gaining a healthier you and not allowing any of the sick thinking he brings into our heads, any more space there.
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 10:18am
OxDrover says:
Findingmyselfagain is 100% right on. I KNOW the psychological need to know “all the details” all the lies, etc. is there. I felt it myself, I OBSCESSED ABOUT IT. But until I quit doing all that I couldn’t move on FORWARD, all I could do is look BACK.
Yes, we know enough already to know they are TOXIC, what more do we need to know? What difference is it if he had an affair with 5 women or 6?
We can’t go before him forever and warn the women he will meet….that keeps him in our heads and our lives, makes us literally stalkers.
The only thing we can do is to distance ourselves (and our children if we can) from this TOXIC person, and focus on OURSELVES and what made us a victim to start with?
Learn the RED FLAGS and watch for them in any future relationship and when we SEE ONE, to distance ourselves from that person as well, knowing that THEY are also probably TOXIC…we don’t have to “give them the benefit of the doubt” If they wave a red flag, RUN.
Use WISDOM and COMMON SENSE rather than emotional “logic” which is built not on real “logic” but on fantasy.
We are NOT required to accept bad behavior from anyone. We need to set boundaries and enforce them. I would be willing to bet doughnuts to dollars that 99.9% of us were chosen as victims because we were giving caring people who did not have solid boundaries. When the bad behavior started we felt bad, but we didn’t set solid boundaries and say THIS BEHAVIOR WILL NOT BETOLERATED.
Yes, some of them were cunning and held out fantasy carrots to us, and we grabbed for the carrots, but when they began to twist the “blame” for their problems on to us, if we had solid boundaries we would not have accepted the “blame” and “responsibility” for their problems. At least in my case that is 100% true.
I am no longer “responsible” for another’s happiness. I am no longer responsible for doing something for someone else that they should be doing for themselves. If they have a problem because of their own poor planning or bad behavior, it is not my responsibility to FIX it. It is amazing how “powerful” people can become and how self reliant when you refuse to do for them what they should be doing for themselves. Whether or not they are Ns or Ps or just people who want someone else to take responsibility for their lives.
Being helpful to someone who is taking responsibility for themselves is fine, but we need, I think, to learn the differences in enabling and helping someone who is really doing the best they can.
To me, I know my Ps were TOXIC and all the details in the world won’t make them any more toxic, but does keep me from focusing on the future–on improving my own boundary setting and defenses in a reasonable manner without becoming paranoid or bitter. The past is past and now on to the future, to a new me, a better and more confident me.
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 12:14pm
alohatraveler says:
To Jules, OxDover, Findingmyselfagain, v.abraded, tami, everyone…
I have to say first to Jules, it is correct.. let go of the details. This is what I was trying to convey in one of my essays for LoveFraud.. that the details don’t matter once you have found your story here. Basically, it’s like this: yes, he did that… only in your town and not mine… but it’s the same.
Details do bug us and keep us circling. No one wants to be lied to and deceived. I think sometimes that if we don’t know everything… we feel like a sucker. And that is a crappy feeling. We just have to know because it makes us feel smarter because we figured it out. But, dear jules, we are not suckers. We are victims of a very sick person. One so out of the ordinary that it really does a number on us. So, be patient and create a little letting go meditation for yourself, whatever that means to you.
Here is what you really need to know:
You are not alone in obsessing over wanting to know.
You are not alone in having many unanswered questions.
You are not alone in having fallen for a person like this.
You are not alone.
You are understood here even if we don’t know the details… we still know how it feels and we understand.
Thanks a million to Donna for creating this space of healing for us.. this imaginary place where we feel comfortable to talk about the most intimate things and to pour out our grief, share our broken dreams, and have the courage to start anew.
So jules, my advice is to try to limit yourself on the obsessing. Say… “Today, I will only allow myself 30 minutes to wonder about who, what, where, when, why.” Have a plan for something to do when the time is up. Start a movie, go for a walk with a friend, have lunch with someone and make your Bad Man experience off limits.
Give yourself a rest. You probably need it.
And to all the other good readers… when I first found this site, it was Donna, and M.L., and Dr. Leedom shining the light and leading people toward recovery. Now, I see it is many of us… it’s so cool to see this. I feel like I am sitting around, eating chocolate and drinking wine and maybe even laughing sometimes at what a nightmare that was and THANK GOD I am on the other side of it!
And who was it that posted yesterday that she just left? Wasn’t that awesome?! That made me feel so good. I hope she peeled out, tires screeching and all… HAHA! This is how I am picturing it… TRIUMPHANT!
Is my life still a mess? Yes. Definately.
Do I still have boundary issues? Yes.. but at least I know that now… I mean now I know about boundaries! Good Grief! Before, I just didn’t know. I really didn’t know. I thought I was being caring, compassionate, flexible, easy going.
I see evolution here in people’s lives from the sharing and it makes me feel a part of something good. This is an appropriate place to excerise caring and compassion.
Anyway, I had such a good time making meatloaf last weekend that I am going to do it again. :o) It feels great to chop all those ingredients to bits. Just to be crazy… here is a link to the recipe I am using. It’s LoveFraud Meatloaf night. LOL!!!
http://www.epicurious.com/reci.....ews/107599
Sunday, 16 March 2008 @ 4:20pm
peggywhoever says:
I agree with “beentheredonethat”, who warned the next victim and “Did she listen. No. She stood by his side thinking their amazing connection (after 2 weeks) was true, soul matched love. You see, she was already hooked and bought his lies about how it was the other crazy women who were full spite, no doubt. But I felt compelled to do my civic duty on behalf of womanhood. I did not want to punish him or get back. I wanted to put it out in the universe because maybe, if someone had warned me I would not have had to experience the soul torturing hell of life with a narcissist/socio and the unbearable difficult healing…the lost time. The crushed spirit. I wanted to spare another soul. “
I warned my Sociopaths next victim. Within 4 months she is buying him a house worth over a million dollars. Her family has money. He, who doesn’t even own a toilet, thinks he’s really hit pay dirt. Heaven knows what he has said about me…but I know what horrible things he said about his ex-wife, (all untrue) because she has become a very good friend of mine, and I am trying to “fix” some of the extreme emotional and financial devastation he has wreaked upon her…she spent 33 years with this man, and she (God help her) may never be “normal”.
My S’s new love called the police on me after I contacted her, and her brother, in an attempt to warn them that they should NOT invest with the Sociopath or they will lose it all. The Sociopath has a history of failed business and has ripped-off every former friend and business partner. I told him they should look at his tax returns. He lives like a millionaire, but in fact I saw his social security tax statements and he never made over $8,000 since 1980!! Of course, he is committing income tax fraud and money laundering as well. My conscience is clear that I did try, but she was in denial, disbelief, and hostile. Of course she doesn’t know she is a victim.
I have removed myself from this situation…I cannot save the world but have done my civic duty. One of my best friends tried to warn me, but the Sociopath had an immediate response for everything and although I did have some red flags, I believed him over her (her boss was his former best friend and business partner). My friend and I have rebuilt our relationship and are actually better friends than we were before.
“beentheredonethat” also sa