BOOK REVIEW: How to Spot a Dangerous Man
PDF Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader:
I have been involved with a man for the past seven years. We don’t live together but he has stayed at my home on and off. Anything rotten in a relationship I have had to deal with–lies, cheating, humiliation, emotional abuse and financial, not that he took money from me but sponged off a single mother. This man makes good money and has never made a commitment to anyone, lots of broken promises and excuses. He has a problem with breaking the connection with me, always trying to get back in and regain his supply. I believe this man is a psychopath/narcissist. I have reverted to just trying to remain friends but I don’t think for him this is possible. He always tries to get back in. My married ex was also a psychopath and I was involved with another man, he was also a psychopath. How can we change this–always attracting the same?
It is not possible to remain friends with a sociopath (or psychopath or narcissist). The only way to deal with them is not to deal with them. No contact. At all.
But this letter asks a more important question, “How can we change this–always attracting the same?”
How to Spot a Dangerous Man
The first step in avoiding involvement with a sociopath is knowing that they are out there. If you’re reading Lovefraud, you’ve probably already had a painful run-in with a sociopath and are well aware that they exist.
The next step is to figure out why you allowed a sociopath into your life. For women who have been victimized, I suggest reading How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved, by Sandra L. Brown, M.A.
Brown describes eight types of dangerous men—men with mental illnesses and personality disorders that cannot be rehabilitated. Lovefraud readers will recognize most of the types as various shades of sociopaths. Brown describes their behavior, provides case studies of women who were involved with them, and includes red-alert behavior checklists. If you see the behaviors on the list, you should end the relationship.
Overriding our warning system
But many Lovefraud readers have intuitively known there was something wrong in a relationship, yet have had difficulty ending it. This is where Brown’s book will be extremely helpful.
Every woman, Brown says, has an internal system of red flags and red alerts that act as a warning system that someone is dangerous. Unfortunately, many of us ignore the signals.
“Somewhere between childhood and adulthood we have allowed many of our built-in alarm systems to become dismantled. Years of overriding internal warnings with reasons to move ahead anyway, combined with the ability to numb the feelings triggered by our own system’s messages, have deadened many women to the symptoms of being in a dangerous relationship. This perilous cycle can lead women to date four or five dangerous men before they begin to notice the spiritual, emotional and physical messages they have been ignoring.”
Brown then explains why women ignore the signals. Sometimes it is because of society’s expectations that it’s more important for women to be polite than to question the behavior of men. Or it’s more important for women to accept everyone unconditionally than to expect people to prove themselves as trustworthy. Or it’s more important to love the unlovable than to realize it’s not safe to love everyone. Or that it’s more important to believe everyone can change than to accept that some people can’t.
Dangerous Man Workbook
So how does all this apply to you? How do you figure out where you’ve been making mistakes? To answer these questions for yourself, I suggest that you also get the How to Spot a Dangerous Man Workbook.
The workbook prints lists of universal red flags—check the ones that you’ve experienced. It lists family traditions and early conditioning—check what you’ve been taught. And it lists loopholes for downplaying the dangerous behavior of men—check the excuses you’ve used.
In the next section of the workbook, you answer questions about your own experiences with dangerous men. How did you meet? Were they similar to your father or another influential relative? What were your first red flags?
If you honestly fill out the workbook, you’ll see your patterns and where you need to change. Because changing your expectations, enforcing your personal boundaries and realizing that you deserve better are required for you to stop attracting sociopaths.
Both books are available on Amazon.com:
How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved
How to Spot a Dangerous Man Workbook
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
ErinBrock says:
“when I spot a RED FLAG, I STOP, LOOK and LISTEN and then I ACT ”
Now I react like I do when I’m on fire….
I STOP….DROP…..and ROLL…..right on outa there!
Not willing to be ‘burned’ again!!!
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robxsykobabe says:
I guess I prided myself on not wanting to ‘judge’ him and in doing so, I opened the door. Things that he exposed to me, which were the ‘red flags’ I tried accepting as ‘what he did’ not as ‘who he is’. I guess my mantra was ‘he hasn’t been (mean, rude, a cheater, lieing, etc) to me, so who am I to judge?”
The mysteriousness about him intrigued me, although at times, it felt downright disrespectful. I would ask and ask and ask for him to SHARE with me WHO HE WAS as, anyone who knows me (and maybe some of you have picked up on this as well) knows that Ive got nothing to hide and am an open person. I can see now that him avoiding sharing himself in that way with me was a way to keep me intrigued and mostly off balance. If I knew about what he ‘did’ either in other relationships or just in general life, I HOPEFULLY would have ran as fast as I could away…
This brings up another memory…One time I emailed his mom because I was so frustrated with hearing how ‘bad’ he has been and ‘was’ that I wanted to know what was sooooo ‘bad’ that I didnt know about. His moms response (because he did and STILL DOES live at home….at 36) was this…”I would caution you over knowing too much. I dont necessarily think knowing everything would help your relationship as much of him was a nightmare.”
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT! Well, Ill tell you, its another red flag! She knew the level of destruction he is capable of causing…and now that Im thinking about it…I seem to remember other emails she and I had, particularly when he did something really stupid where she would ALWAYS end her responses to me with ” I dont blame you if you want out….” or “I understand if this is too much for you to handle…”
Ok…the signs were all there and I didnt take heed…however-I WILL NOT beat myself up anymore for HIS idiocy and manipulations…
I got rid of his things today…and smiled!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
robxsykobabe –
one of the ways i was set up was that the character himself, and the other sock puppets talked about how damaged he was. he was also so lovely. so whenever he went on about how damaged he was, i went, no, no, no, you are so lovely.
it meant i accepted a spirally worsening scenario as he got sicker and sicker (not so much directed AT me, but general conditions which meant i worked harder and harder and got less and less).
duped duped duped.
and about what your spath ex’s mom said – not a red flag, but a legion of red flag carriers coming right at you.
and the bag is gone! good for you!
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robxsykobabe says:
One Step:
I agree…a legion of red flag carriers coming at me, although none of them could divulge any information. It was like I had to ‘find it out’ on my own, but they were all there with their sirens blaring…
I also understand though that I was possibly manipulated by his mom as well. She would tell me over and over and over again how PROUD she was over the MAN he had become…how much PROGRESS he had made…how he is that WONDERFUL PERSON she always knew he could be…
And then she would write me those emails saying ‘I dont blame you if you left…”
What a whirlwind! I said to him after we broke up “you know, it was like I watched you spiral further and further down as an outside observer”…I was right!
Thanks One Step
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robxsykobabe says:
This IS his pathology…I got to see it first hand! I was a witness to who he is and what he does…just like my family and friends are witnesses to who I am and what I do…but for good…
He’s such an ass!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
robxsykobabe – i’ll call you ‘ass’ and raise you a ‘creep’.
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shana31 says:
I will add this title to my ever growing list of material.
I think that we need to do a better job of educating our youth that there is evil in the world. They have been taught tolerance and acceptance to the degree that they may not be able to distinguish the really bad from the somewhat different. In trying to alert my kids to things, I get the “oh, Mom!” routine, as if I am paranoid or crazy for doubting. The whole Don’t Talk to Strangers movement seems to have flown out the window in this computer age. You “trust” people you have never met, and get an idealized view of the world. Some of the required reading that my teens have come home with leads me to wonder why we couldn’t incorporate some of the more broader topics like Without Conscience or The Sociopath Next Door. Heaven knows, we wouldn’t want to offend anyone with gender specific titles. Although I’m sure there would be a major backlash if we were to try and incorporate this type of teaching, it sticks in the back of my mind.
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bluejay says:
I read about Joran Van der Sloot (suspected in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway), in my opinion, a dangerous criminal (a spath). He has recently been arrested in the murder of a twenty-one year old girl, authorities finding her in his hotel room in Peru, with a broken neck. How could anyone break someone’s neck, just thinking about this makes me very uncomfortable, sick. What a way to leave this world.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
All his date rape fantasies will come true in prison.
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bluejay says:
I personally think Joran Van der Sloot killed Natalee Holloway, dumping her body in the ocean. Now he’s murdered another young woman, being callous about taking another life.
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Wini says:
bluejay, I don’t know what to believe YET. They still haven’t found a body or body parts washed ashore anywhere. Not a bone, not a skull, nothing. I’m sitting back watching this fiasco. And, what’s up with the law enforcement in these countries hating Americans? Oh, yes, come to our countries spend your money, but don’t expect us to allow you to be safe.
Anyway, this Kook can be a scape goat to focus on and not look into the black market of sex slaves.
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bluejay says:
Wini,
For quite a while, I have suspected Joran Van der Sloot of harming Natalee Holloway. I figure that he killed her, dumped her body in the ocean, and her body (if it had blood on it) could have been eaten by a shark. If you’re saying that she could have been kidnapped and sold as a sex slave (I hadn’t considered this possibility), how awful for any person to endure that hell. What man will do to his fellow man sometimes is astounding and disturbing.
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Wini says:
bluejay, I am praying you are right. I can’t help thinking there is something more sinister going on with pretty Natalie than meets the eye. She’s the girl next door, blond haired American beauty. The other girl was an exotic Latina beauty who most likely would have disappeared, but probably fought them off and lost her life in doing so.
Without a body, I wouldn’t give up looking for her. I just hope law enforcement in the USA doesn’t close the file on this type of disappearing issue.
Peace.
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CAmom says:
About Joran—
On a Peruvian newspaper website I found a criminal atty states he believes it may take 2 to 2 and one-half years until trial, and Joran will be sent to prison to await trial. (1 of the possible prisons named is notoriously horrific—didn’t even have to google it–it’s that bad)
(Also found some concern Joran’s case may be used as political football given Stephany’s dad is a [minor]politician–so for good or bad this could be a factor)
Also found a recent article there regarding psychcopaths. A prominent Peruvian psychologist, called a “specialist”, Dr. Carmen Gonzalez, states she believes:
(I roughly translated the article and paraphrased where not in quotes)
There are genetic factors…but she believes the *major* factor is their early home life…concluding that “cruelty is home grown.” (comes from the home/early childhood)
Continuing…
1. Psychopaths are the result of loss of maternal love in early childhood, causing children to construct a false self to hide their impulses, frustrations; they later exploit their false self.
2. There are 2 types of psychopaths–the “extreme” type–murderers, serial rapists, etc.
The other type she calls “everyday” ones–who act out “with their spouse, family, children, and in the workplace.” Dr. Gonzalez states for those pyschopaths, “the value of others is non-existant. They treat people as disposable objects. They have no morals or feelings of guilt. Everything they do is for their own benefit, and if they appear generous it’s because they are ‘investing’. They can have adapted behavior; as such it’s difficult to identify them, and they have the ability to be convincing.”
And…
“There are no known therapies. Rorchach can identify psychopathic defenses and traces in order to treat them as children and adolescents.”
Dr. Gonzalez stated it’s “very important to know” that those who associate with psychopaths “can be women who are quite naive, childlike or have very low self-esteem.”
Glad to see the distinction Dr. Gonzalez makes between serial killers and “everyday” psychopaths. And that she considers the role of genetics, although asserting it most often arises from childhood.
I would consider myself to have been very naive when I met my spath ex-husband (a clinical psycholgist). And I had very low self-esteem. But don’t believe that is true of every woman who gets tangled up with a spath.
My dad’s mom died when he was almost 3; she’d been in the hospital on and off since he was born. Doubt any mother/child bond was established. He fits the profile of a spath.
But my sister does as well, is an extreme spath, and our mom was in the home, and was loving and maternal. So not sure what to make of that…except my mom did tell me once that one day she “realized I’d been leaving (sister) in the playpen too much, I was too busy with you other kids. So I got her out and put the playpen away.” Don’t know if that was enough to prohibit bonding—my sister was about 12-15 months old I think.
No answers–would my dad have been a spath if his mom hadn’t been gone/died? His dad wasn’t a spath, and my dad’s older sisters (ages 5 and 10 when my dad was born) were both great; his mom was described as being “warm, loving, always laughing, sunny disposition.”
Wini—regarding sex slavery: I met an American woman who’d attended university in Madrid in the early 80s. One of her friends there was the daughter of a US Senator. The friend was kidnapped and found just as she was about to be smuggled out of Spain and into North Africa. Nothing was in the press in the US or Spain, and the Senator’s connections were what saved her. She was a victim of sex traffickers. As soon as she was found she returned to the US and never finished her studies in Madrid.
In that same time period I lived in a port city (Las Palmas) in the Canary Islands, where articles appeared regularly in the local newspapers about sex slavery, and where several northern European women (over a period of time) had simply disappeared while on vacation there, never to be heard from again.
I was warned to stay away from certain parts of the island. At that time there was much-publicized investigation (in Europe)into a triangle of sex slavery–believed to be France (Marseilles), Canary Islands (Las Palmas), and somewhere in the Middle East. Until shortly before I moved there from France I had no idea sex slavery (called white slavery in the press) even existed. A Paris-based friend who is an investigative journalist was assigned to write an article on the triangle a few weeks before I moved—he strongly advised me not to go.
So when I heard about Natalie and sex-slavery theories I thought it possible. But agree with bluejay that it’s more likely she was killed. The white-slavery rings are too highly organized for a low-life scumbag like Joran to be involved with, and many other vacationing women would have to be missing in order for that to be a realistic scenario.
And Wini, I did see and experience some awfully strange and frightening stuff while living in Las Palmas. At that time *something* was definately going on there. No idea if that ring was eventually busted up. Hope so.
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bluejay says:
Wini and CAmom,
I have to get ready for work, so I don’t have a lot of time. Bits and pieces that I’ve picked up over the years (about the Holloway disappearance) by way of various news sources, led me to suspect Van der Sloot – he always seemed so unemotional in t.v. clips that you’d see him on (unaffected by what was going on in the moment for himself). The stories that you’d hear about him didn’t give the picture of a person with good character, more like having a criminal bent. When I look at pictures of him, it looks like there’s something missing from him (a void), not a lot of depth beneath the surface (if that makes sense). This doesn’t prove anything. He looks and sounds like someone I wouldn’t want my sister, daughter, etc. to get near.
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bluejay says:
Wini and CAmom,
I saw a picture of Van der Sloot’s mom (from an interview that was done with her husband years ago) – she looked like she’s had a hard time, her face speaking volumes. That poor woman. I don’t know what she’s endured in her lifetime. She probably knows that her son is “not right”, beyond her help. What she must be going through now I can only imagine. I feel for her. Tragic.
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Wini says:
bluejay and CAmom, now it makes sense to me why this investigation finally got some meat to it … being that Stephany’s dad is a politician. They (the politicians) all stick together. Notice how everyone ignored Holloway’s mom’s plead. She must have spent her life savings paying for the media to constantly broadcast her plea. Not that the media didn’t make big bucks off the Holloway family’s misery.
So, this kid could be just a kook, taking his aggressive failures in life on women.
CAmom, I agree that childhood plays some role in why Spaths become Spaths, but we shouldn’t focus on blaming the parental figures, siblings etc. as the entire reason why Spaths are created because Spaths, as with everyone, are responsible for their thoughts, words, actions in life. Yet, we all know on this site (LOL), the Spaths that destroyed our lives never accept responsibility. I do believe that jealousy (envy) plays a major role in blinding the Spath from early childhood. Never learning how to get rid of their anger issues over perceived or real violations. Not riding this first injury allows the injury to fester as the Spath goes through the cycles of life experiences. It’s as if they keep this hidden score board and no one knows that there is scoring being conducted, not to mention, how we are being scored for anything we do. I would guess they are the ultimate in the Win/Loose personalities. They will always win and everyone/anyone looses. Never to comprehend that there is other mindsets out there … of win/win.
Peace.
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OxDrover says:
Dear CAmom,
I was in Europe and Africa in the mid 1960s (doing wild life photography) and boy was I naive! We were a group of Americans traveling by private plane and even though everyone except me was an experienced world traveler, there were some “interesting” episodes, one in the Sudan where a minor local official tried to buy me from my P-sperm donor, but from that experience and hearing about others, I did learnn about “white slavery” of women and children being taken and sold for harems and “sex workers.”
I imagine it has ALWAYS gone on, especially in those areas, and goes on TODAY as well in areas where there is money to be made from it, and women and children are generally viewed as possessions for men by the predominant culture.
Stephany and Natalie both were very naive young women to go off with some boy they didn’t know alone and thinking that this was safe and also exciting, being way too trusting, and it cost them their lives. Of course lots of young women have done the same things and NOT been murdered, but if it is YOU that picks wrong, you don’t get any second chances to learn.
So it is up to us to teach our youth that there is EVIL in this world and that they should be cautious—but not all will listen. I’ve been warned about particular psychopaths and I didn’t listen and I was an ADULT. Fortunately I never ended up like Stephany or Natalie but I COULD have!
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bluejay says:
OxDrover,
What a life you’ve had! You must write a book, no joke! I agree that Stephany and Natalie should not have gone off with Joran (a stranger) – they obviously didn’t suspect that this average-looking person had a dark side, paying a huge price, their lives. You’re right about communicating (really stressing) to our youth about what kinds of people are on this planet, that there are people (who look like you and me), willing to carry out wicked, evil deeds (eg. rape, murder, theft, etc.) in our world. Always err on the side of caution.
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CAmom says:
Wini and Bluejay,
Saw a mug shot of Joran–taken either in Chile or Peru (no caption)–he looks horrible, huge dark circles under his eyes, appears *much* older than he is. And he looks unaffected, blank. (That void you mention, Bluejay)
No, he’s not someone I’d want around anyone I cared about, not around anyone period! Don’t believe in the death penalty; but life in prison may be worse…
Read that Joran’s mom is devastated. I remember photos of her back then too, she did look physically and emotionally wrecked. To know your child isn’t right and there’s nothing you can do is horrible. And I don’t think her husband was quite right either. She looked beaten down, wore out. Can only imagine what life was/is like for her.
The fact Stephany’s dad is politically connected–what irony. Joran had ‘home court advantage’ before; now his victim’s family will. Her dad’s political activities–could be good, and could be bad–some feelings in Peru the case might be used to settle scores–chance for enemies to retaliate against the dad; chance for dad to retaliate against his enemies. Horrible travesty if justice for Stephany gets lost in political power plays.
Wini–I hear you on childhood and know there’s no definitive answer on what makes a spath–the old nature vs nurture debate. Tend to think it’s more nature than nurture…not necessarily genetics, although no doubt genetics are involved, but so too is some sort of brain disorder. And I don’t blame/fault anyone with a spath family member. I know extreme abuse in childhood often results in adults with all kinds of issues, from garden variety neurosis to (possibly) spathiness, but we’re all responsible for our actions nonetheless. Not sure spaths understand that concept as they deny everything if possible, and if caught at something, tend to blame their victim. And the early jealousy/anger/injury angle is a good insight also. Can see that at work in my dad, my sister, and my ex.
Interesting observation about score-keeping and they don’t see win/win as an option, they can’t comprehand that, see no value in that. Really distorted outlook on life–no nuances, nothing except winners and losers (who *they* consider winners and losers by their twisted standards) and doing whatever they want with no thought for anyone else. My sister is extremely successful, but the cost to others for her to be where she is now is revolting and scary. Huge number of people she’s left damaged, and more to come. I think tenacity is a good quality, but in a spath–no! They are relentless. The only ‘good’ spath is a lazy to the point of catatonic spath : )
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OxDrover says:
I can relate to the devestation of Joran’s mother, and she has my complete sympathy and understanding. When you realize that your son that you love is TRULY a monster and that there is little or no chance that it is a “mistake” then you enter the GATES OF HELL!
At first you don’t want to believe (denial) then you start to SEE and it is too painful, so you bargain with God and the Universe “Oh, maybe it isn’t true! Please God make it not true” and then you wish you could change places with the mother of the dead girl, you wish the community would come together to support you and yoiu could bury your child and know that they were not suffering any more—but your child is in a prison with HORRIBLE CRIMINALS who will hurt him, and there is nothing you can do to protect him. You go to sleep worrying about him, and you dream about him, and you wake up dreaming about him and worrying.
I empathize with Joran’s mother totally because I have been there. The world condemns her because “she raised a monster” like it is her fault—not taking into consideration that he had CHOICES. My guess is too, that his father was probably a P and that Joran’s mother has been LIVING IN HELL for a long time, but is really going to go DEEPER into hell now unless she can realize the TRUTH, the truth that her son is a psychopathic monster. Even then it will be difficult for her to detach, painful for her to detach–but there IS LIFE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT FIREY realization and detaching from them.
I think that Joran is probably off the streets for good and is going to be locked away in a prison in Peru for a long time to come, so that’s at least a good thing. I pray for his mother and that she can find peace in her own life.
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CAmom says:
Oxy–Wow! Agree with Bluejay–write a book!
I was a very trusting traveler too and could easily have ended up a statistic many, many times. Usually traveled alone, still usually travel alone. Got stranded in a small town in Baja California once for a couple of weeks. A contingent of Americans working for Texas Instruments was there–contracted by Pemex to look for oil off the Pacific…long story short I trusted them. And went with one of the guys about my age to an isolated beach for the afternoon. He tried to SELL ME to some fishermen. It was the most helpless feeling…he wouldn’t let me talk, so I looked on as they negotiated and debated. The men decided the price was more than they wanted to pay. Honestly thought I would die, that he would kill me and no one would ever know.
Had no clue he was nuts. He was really polite, had those southern manners, etc. Then snapped. Strongly agree we need to share stories and teach youth what can and does happen.
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CAmom says:
Dear Oxy,
Your post made me cry. That’s a lonely place to be–the parent of the perp. And to feel judged, condemned. And to worry about your child when no one else is. Very sorry you lived through that, and very happy you came out on the other side intact.
My daughter is autistic. Not all that long ago autism was blamed on the mother–she must have done something wrong. My daughter was born when that belief was coming to an end, but before the autism awareness we have now. Even knowing it “wasn’t my fault”–I still felt guilty. Did I not take enough vitamins? Eat right? Not get to her in time when she cried? On and on and on. Took a really long time to lose the guilt–and think there may be a bit of it still, even though I know better.
It’s not even close to what you went through. I’m so sorry, for you, and for all the forgotten, tormented moms.
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OxDrover says:
Dear CAmom,
The summer of 1981 after my divorce in 1980, I took my kids and we traveled and camped the three of us all over the north western states for the entire summer. It never dawned on me that we would be in any kind of danger that I couldn’t handle! DUH!!!! (remember that mother and daughter and daughter’s friend who were killed in the what was it, Yellow stone? and put in the trunk of her car?
The ONLY close call I had that I knew of was when we were camping on a very remote river in Wyoming and two oil rig workers drove by in the middle of the afternoon fishing. They cvame back about an hour or so before dark and were talking to us. I have always carried a pistol on my trips alone (still do) and had my .38 on my belt under my sweater but it was obvious what it was. They were drunk, the older one more than the younger one, but the older guy kept asking to “see” my gun, and I kept saying “No” and I was gathering wood for a fire and he went to “help” and ikept tryhing to get on my right side where the gun was and I kept turning it away from him.
They finally left about mid night that night and the younger guy told me he would “check on you in the morning and make sure you are okay.” Well, by DAY LIGHT we were packed and on the road.
You know, even with all the travel I had done, and having lived in Los Angeles CA you would have thought at 30+ years old I would have had better sense than I apparently did! I think God protected me from my own stupidity.
My little pistol has saved my “bacon” on 3 occasions, once when I broke down on the side of a freeway on Sat. night with a friend in the days before cell phones!!!
I no longer am trusting with strangers, though if I see a woman broken down on the side of the road I will pull over and see if she has a phone to call someone, but I advise her to get back into her car and LOCK THE DOORS and wait for help to come that she has called. If she doesn’t have a cell phone I will call for her but not let her into my car. I may even pull up and wait in my car WITH THE DOORS LOCKED until a cop or tow truck arrives, and then drive away, but In the past, I would have jumped out to help her, or taken her into my car. NOT ANY MORE.
I don’t pull over at night at all for anyone, though I will call 911 and report to the highway police that there is a car broken down on the side of the road at Mile marker X.
As for you being in Baja and the guy trying to sell you, OMG! I have been there so many times, and I used to love it there, but the way things are in Mexico now, I would not go to Mexico at all now. I no longer go on “unscheduled road trips” alone, I don’t usually drive alone after dark any more (we have lots of natural gas drilling in our area now and lots of “oil field trash” in the area) and I am armed even here on the farm or in the car if I am traveling. I always carry some cash, and a charged cell phone as well.
Actually, looking back over my life I think I must be feline because I have sure had “9 lives” and I think I’ve used up 8 of them!!! So I am being careful and cautious, but I REFUSE to live in terror!!!
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CAmom says:
Dear Oxy,
Yep, have gun, will travel! (have a .38 too–2 of them in fact) The incident you refer to happened in my part of CA–Yosemite National Park. Still talked about up there…
I had a lot of close calls. None as dumb as going to the beach with a stranger (I did learn something!) but just the perils of being young and alone and on foreign soil. I hate that women are prey, but have accepted it. Men are also, but not as much as women. So have had many, many, many close calls. Even though I was careful.
And I’m very careful at home too, but, like you, refuse to live in terror. A lot of people don’t like guns, but one career criminal told me decades ago he and his buddies liked that–and considered *anyone* who didn’t own a gun a *chump.*
My dad (retired cop) actually gave me my 1st gun, one of his old service revolvers. Hope to never use a gun, but glad I have a couple and know how to use them properly.
And I must be on my “9th life” too! LOL!
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OxDrover says:
Dear CA MOM,
I just recently got the BESt home defense gun I have ever heard of. It is a Tarus Judge–heavy pistol and I got the 6 inch barrel because it kicks a bit less than the 3 inch one, but too big to carry either one, but shoots .410 shell home defense load (four 9 mm pellets) or it shoots .45 long-colts ammunition. I keep it loaded with the .410 loads because it makes sure it won’t shoot THROUGH walls, but at close range (where else are you going to shoot for home defense but at close range?) it is EL PERFECTO and even with only 5 rounds you have 20 projectiles and you aren’t going to miss with shotgun shells even at 5-8 yards which is where you would most likely be shooting from. Even at 15 yards the pattern would be more than close enough to stop a man.
I keep it on my bed, under my Bible! The .38 travels well and I have two of them as well. My sons like semi-automatic pistols but I’d rather have a revolver as I trust them more and if an auto jammed I’m not sure I’d react fast enough. The down side of a revolver is I have not found a red dot laser site that works well on one that I can afford. I bought one and it was a waste of money, couldn’t get it to mount right. For nights that would be great.
Yea, I think we both need to take care of ourselves, that we are probably on our last “lives” LOL
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CAmom says:
Dear Oxy,
I’m in awe! You really know your guns! I’ll look into the Taurus you mention. It sounds very accurate–a .38 even at close range, because no doubt I’d be trembling, is no guarantee I’d be ‘on target.’ My dad and my uncle (a Constable and rancher) both prefer revolvers because of the jamming problem. I keep a gun at hand, on my bed, at night too.
My dad’s old service revolver is a longer barreled Colt .38, more accurate than the short barrel Taurus .38 I have. I hope no one finds these gun posts upsetting. You grew up in the country I think? And I spent all summers and week-ends and my sophomore year of high school on my uncle’s ranch. Since he was the only “lawman” up there in the mountains he felt he (and my aunt and me) was a target (no pun intended!) and wanted me to be able to protect myself. There were guns hidden all over the house and barn. I think when you grow up with guns, and have seen them used and cared for with caution, you have a different attitude about them.
And I lived in the mountains off and on as an adult too. Now I live in gangland, so while the critters are different, they’re still a threat.
Like the time the rattlesnake…and then there was that rabid skunk…and that poor cow we had to put down…and can’t forget the squirrel-for-dinner-hunting! (Seriously–my uncle was a combo of Grizzly Adams and the Marlboro Man–eating rodents? Hell yes! And you better clean your plate!)
And on that note…gotta go bottle feed kitten formula to a couple of tiny motherless kittens who are demanding to be fed!
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bluejay says:
CAmom and OxDrover,
You both should write books, each one of you having an interesting and compelling story to tell!
OxDrover, a possible title for your autobiography could be, Nine Lives (and counting): A Woman’s Journey through the Minefield of Sociopathy. I’m sure that you could come up with a better, more appropriate title.
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bluejay says:
I really hope that people would show compassion toward Joran Van der Sloot’s mother, knowing that she needs help at this time of her life.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Bluejay,
Actually that’s a great title! Not sure I could live up to the writing though! I’ve done a couple of local history books and am actually embarassed to claim them now, writing is difficult!!! It is work. I admire those that do it for a living. I doubt that there will be a lot of compassion for the woman. Scot Peterson’s mother I think is a P herself, from what I have read she seems to have a great many of the traits.
Yea CA mom, definitely. I also have one of those Tarus .38s as my colt detective (short barrell) special got to be worth more $$ than to be treated Like I treat a travel gun, so My son got me the Tarus 38 so if I ever have to use one (you never get them back) it would be a cheaper one, plus not so much holster wear on the other one.
I’m not a big gun “collector,” just those 3 pistols and my grandpa’s old double 20 g and a muzzle loader rifle and a navy 1851 muzzle loader 6 shot pistol, that’s my entire collection. The boys have more but even they aren’t like big collectors, and we have reloading stuff for all the guns we have so we can afford to shoot. Ammo is very expensive now.
I’m a self taught “instinctive” shooter, just learned it as a kid never even thought about how I did it, so maintain reasonable accuracy without a lot of practice. Don’t hunt any more as we don’t need the meat.
I don’t think I could live in gang-land, I get paranoid and antsy when I go visit my best friend in town and she lives on a quiet street in a quiet texas town very little crime etc. I used to live in L.A. and never worried and in Dallas and Miami (I did get paranoid there!@) but now I like the quiet of the country.
I’ve been reading some things about the healing power of “silence” and “quiet” and “solitude”–though actually there are lots of SOUNDS at night here, the frogs, crickets, circadia, coyotes, etc. actually quite loud at times. But it is relaxing sounds not potential threats.
I like having my son live here even when he is gone a lot or like now, off the place working for several weeks, he’s a great room mate and if he gets married or takes off for other parts I will probably see if I cant find a roommate–sexual orientation and gender don’t matter– not looking for a partner, just a roomie. I have several friends that might be compatible roomies. Actually if my son C hadn’t lied to me (in December and I sent him packing for the lie) he was a great roomie, helped out around the place with his share of housework and yard work and all that. My place is big enough too that there’s plenty of space inside and outside for adults living together, so you don’t get under each other’s skin.
My son D’s friends like to come up on weekends, and If we’re doing something, I’ll put them to work! Treat them like my kids–if you eat here and I need something done, get yer butt movin! First time you’re a guest, after that, you’re family.
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libelle says:
Wow! I travelled lots of times alone through the backlands from US, from Salt Lake City to Albuquerque via Denver, from Mephis to New Orleans, and I hiked in the seedy suburbs of San Antonio, Texas. I loved it and it felt safe all the time. I slept in Motel6 which was just fine.
After reeading these posts I can’t help thinking that I must have had a squadron of guardian angels flying in shifts! I even did first aid once in the Delta near New Orleans, a biker was run over by a truck. I made sure that he moved away from the road (he was in the middle of the highway) and that he was o.K., and left without giving my address as the paramedics arrived. Lawyer-paranoia perhaps?
I read that in the Delta the ratio gun pre capita is highest in the whole US, but YOU USE THEM TOO???
Well, for my next holiday maybe a retreat in a SPA with Ayurveda or the like would be more nerve-friendly
I seriously hope nobody of us here has ever the necessity to use a gun! ((((Hugs))))
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libelle says:
Ups, should be “guns per capita”
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OxDrover says:
Dear Libelle,
Not every gun owner is some crazed terrorist, most of us are law abiding people. I hope I never have to use my gun even to frighten someone much less put a hole in them, I have twice pointed my gun at men, and once just having it I think saved me, but at least two of the times I think having it saved my life, and probably all three.
There’s video floating around on the internet of an 11 yr old girl home alone who nailed two gun toting robbers who broke into her house, her dad had taught her to shoot!
There’s an old saying that “God made men and women” but Mr. Colt (a gun manufacturer) made them EQUAL. I’m not nearly as strong as even an unarmed man, andn if I was not allowed to own a gun, I would find SOMETHING that would help make me more equal in a fight and keep it handy.
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hens says:
I am a gun owner, I am glad tho that the bill did not pass to allow gun owners to carry them exposed. There are too many gun owners that have no business with a gun but how do you regulate that?
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OxDrover says:
Dear Henry,
you can’t regulate away stoopid! LOL I open carry here on the farm, but that is legal, you just can’t do it off your own land. The one time lately I didn’t have a gun on me the dog had this HUGE water moccosin coiled up in the yard and by the time I got a hoe he was gone!
Haven’t seen any copperheads last couple of years so guess these giant moccosins are eating them! LOL That’s about all we have seen the last few years, makes me want to hire a dozer and fill in the pond by the house! Son D killed one huge one so far this year, guess it was the mate to the one the dog coiled up. Glad he didn’t bite the little dog that would have been the end of the small dog.
Guess I shouldn’t be talking about killing snakes, Stargazer may be lurking out there and BOINK me with my own skillet!
BTW, I got out of the house today, went to the community retirement party for our postmistress, then went to my friends’ farm and got the 2 kittens I had spoken for (for my barn) they are so cute, no tails, and SEVEN fingers on all 4 feet. I’ve got them in a crate in the house til I get them more gentle, they haven’t been handled much so they’re kind of SPITTY! Speaking of which, Son D’s House cat is REALLY SPITTY with these interlopers in HER HOUSE! The dog thinks its cool to have another self animated mobile toy in the house.
You guys have a good night, I’m off to bed, didn’t get my nap today! This retirement is really hard, get up at 9, coffee til 10:30 then take a break, then LF till lunch, take a break til 1:30 then take a nap till 3, then more LF, and then supper at 5 and feed the dogs, then relax till bedtime, then read an hour, then go to sleep! Ah, what a rigorous schedule! Don’t know how I keep up! LOL Nitey nite!
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hens says:
See how you are Ox, call me stoopid and go to bed. You are the only person I know that would be excited about gettin a cat with 28 fingers..now that is weird. spitty.
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ErinBrock says:
Rosa thinks it’s cool to have ‘another self animated mobile toy in the house too’!
From what I recall, hers has 7 fingers and many feet too!
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hens: re guns – it’s not possible to regulate stoopid.
if it was, none of us would be HERE.
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Rosa says:
I had no idea so many people were “packing heat”.
See….I’m not the only one who likes “gadgets”.
Looks like everybody’s packin’ somethin’.
When it comes to firearms, I would be happy to have a taser.
I need something that would allow me to shoot with reckless abandon, without causing too much damage.
I think tasers are the cat’s meow.
“Don’t tase me, bro!”
This is more of the effect I’m looking for, just until the police arrive….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMkGOpAF4s
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erin1972 says:
Hey ya’ll. I went to the range yesterday with my two guns. I’m going to be a cop so I have to practice. I am very seriously considering going active duty army beforehand-after I in get in shape. I used to be the naive one too-thanks to mom. I was the people-pleaser. I trust NO ONE now. It’s amazing how much I’ve changed for the better since the spath dumped me.
I have my glock 27, which is a subcompact little .40 caliber and I am good with it. My back-up is a little snub nose S&W .38 special revolver. I love going to the range to practice. It is such a huge stress reliever for me. I have been under chronic stress for years due to my low self esteem. I am hoping to start boxing/martial arts soon. There is a gym near me that is dedicated to both.
Yes, I am overweight but I am excited about the future and will hopefully start taking it off soon. I finally replaced by stolen bicycle yesterday and I’m so excited. I had been without one for a year and a half.
After the experience with the spath, I am finally getting my life together-the way I want it to be. I am so happy to be at the point where I rarely think about him anymore and when I do, there is no sadness or left over attachment-it’s just something that happened and now it’s over. It’s in the past.
I think of my sisters who are anorexic. One of them is meaner than a dog shittin tacks. One of my friends said: of course she’s mean-she’s hungry. LOL! I would rather be how I am now, with a lot of weight to lose, than to be her anyday.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Rosa,
I’m not sure those tazers aren’t meaner-n’a gun! At least if you shoot someone they die and don’t twitch to death! I got into a really well grounded electric fence once and believe me I NEVER WANT THAT TO HAPPENN AGAIN!!!! LOL
A friend of ours who is a cop brought his DVD of his being tazered over to show us. Every cop who uses one has to be done himself, they also have to get pepper sprayed as well. I think I’d find another job rather than go through with that! LOL
Actually I think they are great police tools for some situations that need a non-lethal “reach out” control for some people where the officer is not put at risk having to physically bring down the “subject” who may not be armed, but might be strong.
Yea, Rosa I can think of a few Ps I’d llike to tazer too! (You bad girl for giving me ideas like that!!! I’d never shoot them unless they were actually threatening me, but I MIGHT tazer them just for FUN! But YOU put the idea in my head, so it is your fault I am sitting here having this VIVID VISION in my head of them laying on the ground twitching and begging while I pull the trigger–over and over and over and over and over and over and over….LOL)
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ErinBrock says:
A cop highly recommended a tazer to me.
Yes….the visual of the convulsions on the porch…….okay….that’s enough eb.
the barbs are like whale harpoons…..they are designed to ‘stick’. YIKES!!!!!
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Hopeforjoy says:
Question about the auther of this book, “How to spot a dangerous man”, Sandra Brown. She offers retreats to those healing from a relationship with a disordered person, have any of you been on one of these healing reatreats? I have an aquaintence who went to Tennessee for a healing retreat because her dad is a sex addict and narcissist. It was beneficial to her in her journey and helped her see that there was nothing she could do to alter her dad’s behavior.
Wondering if any of you have gone to a retreat like this and if it was helpful for your recovery.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hopeforjoy – man, i wish i could do a retreat to help to heal from this!
as far as i know no one here has done anything with Sandra Brown. Might want to email Donna directly and ask if she knows of anyone who has.
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Hopeforjoy says:
Dear One stepper,
Wouldn’t that be nice? Retreat with friends plus healing workshops? That is my idea of a destination vacation. Thanks for the advice, I’ll drop Donna an e-mail.
How is your garden? Hope your vegies are coming in, and most of all, I hope you are feeling better.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hope4joy – garden is GOOD! green things in tummy!
doing some good work in the community through it also.
helath sucks. badly. new insult to action every freakin week.
thanks for caring.
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hens says:
I agree with Rosa, a tazer is the best way to go. I honestly think killing them would only be doing them a favor. Beside’s there is always the chance somebody else will do the deed for us.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
Here http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/ are some good resources, particularly http://saferelationshipsmagazi.....agwarnings:
RED FLAG WARNINGS are clues that emotional, physical, financial, spiritual, and/or sexual danger may be on the horizon. Consider that not every red flag listed below means you are dealing with a pathological. It means you better look deeper. The more red flags an individual displays, the stronger the indication is of a potential pathology.
Emotional Feelings
•You get overcome by an anxious feeling when you are around that person
•You get a feeling that something isn’t quite right, but you cannot figure it out.
•You feel uneasy allowing him or her to be alone in your house, but you’re uncertain why
•You get a creepy feeling when he or she stares into your eyes
•You feel drained after spending time with this person
•You feel anger or hostile when he or she speaks
•You feel very self-conscious or inadequate around him or her
Physical Feelings
•Your teeth clench and jaws get sore
•You get nauseated when dealing with that person
•You get headaches around that person
•Your heart rate elevates in his or her presence (mistaken for attraction, rather than fear)
•You get twitches or sweaty palms when in close proximity
From Others
•A friend makes a negative comment about that person’s character or behavior
•Your family members say they are not sure if they like him, or admit actual dislike
•Someone asks you what happened to his wife when you did not know he was married
•Your friends begin to disappear from your life when he/she is around
•People do not seem to warm up to him/her easily
Circumstantially
•S/He is living with parents or renting a room from someone
•S/He does not have a car
•S/He does not have a job
•S/He has been in several short-lived relationships
•S/He has just come out of a relationship
•S/He has no furniture
•S/He is incredibly tight with money and wants you to pay often or all of the time
•S/He does not have many friends
•S/He is abrasive, controlling, and inflexible
•S/He seems to be insincere in compliments given to others
•S/He seems to have no concern for others
•S/He is secretive or mysterious and has unusual beliefs or habits
•S/He asks you early in the relationship to loan money
•S/He is drinking or drugging excessively or new to a 12-step program
•S/He has come from an abusive home
•S/He enjoys others shortcomings and acts superior to others
•S/He is very charming at times, but can be very harsh with a short fuse
•S/He seems unable to empathize with others
•S/He is a victim of something with an awful hard luck story
•S/He never takes blame for anything; it is always someone else’s fault
•S/He twists and turns events into something favorable to him or her
•S/He can change moods on a dime or is combative towards others
•S/He has lied about the past, hiding children or ex-spouses
This list is not exhaustive. You may come up with your own red flags. The key is to pay attention to them. They are your best protection as they help you to get out early or at least to know what you’re dealing with.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
I experienced the following:
•You get a feeling that something isn’t quite right, but you cannot figure it out.
•You get a creepy feeling when he or she stares into your eyes.
•S/He is drinking or drugging excessively.
•S/He is very charming at times, but can be very harsh with a short fuse — however, he was not violent or combative.
•S/He can change moods on a dime.
•S/He has been in several short-lived relationships.
•S/He has come from an abusive home
•S/He is secretive or mysterious — he had the tendancy to disappear for a day or two.
•S/He is incredibly tight with money — never saw this on any other list but Jamie admitted to being “cheap.”
•S/He does not have a car — another one new to me. While car ownership is less common in Europe, I was surprised to learn he never learned how to drive.
•S/He never takes blame for anything.
•S/He seems unable to empathize with others.
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lostingrief says:
had every one of the emotional feelings … ewwwwww.
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