BOOK REVIEW: How to Spot a Dangerous Man
PDF Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader:
I have been involved with a man for the past seven years. We don’t live together but he has stayed at my home on and off. Anything rotten in a relationship I have had to deal with–lies, cheating, humiliation, emotional abuse and financial, not that he took money from me but sponged off a single mother. This man makes good money and has never made a commitment to anyone, lots of broken promises and excuses. He has a problem with breaking the connection with me, always trying to get back in and regain his supply. I believe this man is a psychopath/narcissist. I have reverted to just trying to remain friends but I don’t think for him this is possible. He always tries to get back in. My married ex was also a psychopath and I was involved with another man, he was also a psychopath. How can we change this–always attracting the same?
It is not possible to remain friends with a sociopath (or psychopath or narcissist). The only way to deal with them is not to deal with them. No contact. At all.
But this letter asks a more important question, “How can we change this–always attracting the same?”
How to Spot a Dangerous Man
The first step in avoiding involvement with a sociopath is knowing that they are out there. If you’re reading Lovefraud, you’ve probably already had a painful run-in with a sociopath and are well aware that they exist.
The next step is to figure out why you allowed a sociopath into your life. For women who have been victimized, I suggest reading How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved, by Sandra L. Brown, M.A.
Brown describes eight types of dangerous men—men with mental illnesses and personality disorders that cannot be rehabilitated. Lovefraud readers will recognize most of the types as various shades of sociopaths. Brown describes their behavior, provides case studies of women who were involved with them, and includes red-alert behavior checklists. If you see the behaviors on the list, you should end the relationship.
Overriding our warning system
But many Lovefraud readers have intuitively known there was something wrong in a relationship, yet have had difficulty ending it. This is where Brown’s book will be extremely helpful.
Every woman, Brown says, has an internal system of red flags and red alerts that act as a warning system that someone is dangerous. Unfortunately, many of us ignore the signals.
“Somewhere between childhood and adulthood we have allowed many of our built-in alarm systems to become dismantled. Years of overriding internal warnings with reasons to move ahead anyway, combined with the ability to numb the feelings triggered by our own system’s messages, have deadened many women to the symptoms of being in a dangerous relationship. This perilous cycle can lead women to date four or five dangerous men before they begin to notice the spiritual, emotional and physical messages they have been ignoring.”
Brown then explains why women ignore the signals. Sometimes it is because of society’s expectations that it’s more important for women to be polite than to question the behavior of men. Or it’s more important for women to accept everyone unconditionally than to expect people to prove themselves as trustworthy. Or it’s more important to love the unlovable than to realize it’s not safe to love everyone. Or that it’s more important to believe everyone can change than to accept that some people can’t.
Dangerous Man Workbook
So how does all this apply to you? How do you figure out where you’ve been making mistakes? To answer these questions for yourself, I suggest that you also get the How to Spot a Dangerous Man Workbook.
The workbook prints lists of universal red flags—check the ones that you’ve experienced. It lists family traditions and early conditioning—check what you’ve been taught. And it lists loopholes for downplaying the dangerous behavior of men—check the excuses you’ve used.
In the next section of the workbook, you answer questions about your own experiences with dangerous men. How did you meet? Were they similar to your father or another influential relative? What were your first red flags?
If you honestly fill out the workbook, you’ll see your patterns and where you need to change. Because changing your expectations, enforcing your personal boundaries and realizing that you deserve better are required for you to stop attracting sociopaths.
Both books are available on Amazon.com:
How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved
How to Spot a Dangerous Man Workbook
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
Iwonder says:
erin1972, Henry, Ox, CAMom & Rosa:
You know, I also have a gun. I’ve got a Walther P22 .38 pistol. It has a red laser beam too. Can’t miss! I find shooting at the range is great therapy. Plus I feel that American Citizens we have the right to bear arms. I live alone. I have no dog. I feel safe knowing I can handle myself should the situation arise.
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hens says:
I applaud you Iwonder for packin a gun AND KNOWING HOW TO USE IT…I am afraid society is going to explode and we may need to defend what little food we have………………~~~!!!!!!!!
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PureWaters says:
OxDrover,
I just read 2 of your posts about your son…. wow. I just want to say, that I have A LOT to learn from your story.
I sometimes fear that my son with be a sociopath. At 1 year, he shows genuine attachment to me, cuddles with me, likes to drink his bottle with me, crys out to me when I’m around him, is happy when I’m near…
But, one of my worst fears is going through what you went through.
Could you tell early on that your son was a sociopath???
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OxDrover says:
Henry, load those balls with something besides paint! LOL
I am not one of the newly emerging group of “survivalists” that are mid way between the right wing radicals living in bunkers and the “save your confederaste money boys, the south’s gonna rise again,” but fairly NORMAL people are realizing that our way of life can’t go on forever and each of us should be somewhat self sufficient, YET COOPERATIVE! Go green! The old Boy Scout motto BE PREPARED!!!
I believe no matter where you live, you should keep at least a month or two’s supplies of dried staples (rice and beans folks) and some WATER put away for earthquake, invasion, tornado, floods, or whatever happens. I remember in 1971 when we were in Los Angeles when the big earthquake in Feb hit (I was 8 months preg) bread went to 4 x the normal price in 24 hours, and so on. It never hurts to BE PREPARED with food and water stored. Especially if you live in an area that is prone to earthquake or other kinds of storms. Keep some CASH on hand too, keep your car tank FULL all the time, have a “rush and ready” bag handy in case you have to grab it and GO—with extra medications for at least a few days, copies of importnat papers, shot records for kids, a couple of changes of clothes. Most of us have never been through a major emergency, but just like lyou carry a jack in your car and a spare tire for emergencies, IT IS BEST TO BE PREPARED.
You may keep a fire extinguisher jin your kitche ( I do) and a huge box of baking soda for grease fires (I do) and hope you never need it but still it is an “insurance policy” in case you need it.
Same way with the gun, it is my “insurance jpolicy” that I will not be caught off guard witout any defenses. I hope I never need it AGAIN but if I do it is my best friend! I’d carry a cop, but they are WAY TOO HEAVY (too many donuts!) and WHEN SECONDS count, help is only MINUTES AWAY!
I also have an emergency medical kit in each vehicle, a few tools, a space blanket, etc. Never know when you might need them.
BTW–today I went outside to blow the leaves etc off the front porch and I have a big cast iron bell on the front porch, there was a wasp inside with a nest and I pithed her off, And I am VERY ALLERGIC to them. I KNEW WHERE MY KIT WAS AND IT WAS IN ARM’S REACH—got one in every building on the farm, and in each car glove compartment of every vehicle! I got stung twice in the face, and had my needle in my leg in less than a half a minute! Only been stung (this is 3rd time in last 30 years) infrequently, but it only takes once to do you in if you don’t take care of it!
I think maybe today was my 8 th and a half life, ErinB—getting close! LOL BUT I’m prepared!!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Purewaters,
DO not worry yet! Okay? Love your son and be there for him 24/7, also get on Dr. Liane Leedom’s web site “raisingn the at risk child” ORDER HER BOOK, “Just like his father.” She will have another one out soon.
It IS somewhat genetic but ALSO environmental too. I didn’t see ANY problem with my son til one episode at age 11, then when he hit puberty he did a 180 degree turn and became a monster.
I’m fasr from the only one here who has a P kid or one that has some P tendencies, Gemini has two daughters (40+) that were monsters by teenaged years, Witsend does as well, her son is 17 and morphed a couple of years ago. Some of them start acting out EARLy (I am a retired medical and mental health professional) at 8-10-12 yrs, but others don’t show up til puberty. It is difficult to tell what is “normal rebellion” and what is psychopathic acting out. Believe me, I keept hoping that it was just teenaged crap, but it got worse and worse untikl he was in prison for a felony robbery at 18, then back in prison at 20 for murder. STILL I didn’t give up. I didn’t acknowledge I couldn’t help him and he wasn’t going to help himself. He also KNEW HOW TO CON ME. I finally wised up!
LEARN everything you can about parenting, development stages of children, and give your child love, direction and acceptance—the rest is up to him. HE has choices ande he may choose to walk the dark side, but at that point all you can do is to WALK AWAY and let him go. It IS HARD! But I wish I had known then what I know now.
In the meantime though DO NOT WORRY OR FRET ABOUT IT just be the best parent you can be and that is ALL you can do. It is enough. ((((Hugs)))) oh, and PRAY A LOT!!!!
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PureWaters says:
OxDrover,
Gotcha! hehe. It’s so funny to realize how “I think” I’ve got everything under control, but deep under, I can still panic instantly. Tehehehe.
I love my son so much. And, the most surreal part of giving birth was, he looked exactly like his father! Just the wrinkled version, haha.
And, so somewhere inside of me, I worry… and watch. I know there is nothing I can do – that it’s in God’s control… every one’s life is, for that matter.
But, God is funny in how he works… because as much as it would seem disturbing to tell people that a man who abused me terribly, would give me a son that was his spitting image – and that love would come so easily for this child. But, it did. It’s just instinctual.
And, somehow, loving my son has healed a big part of me that was hurting from my ex’s abuse. It wasn’t my son’s job to do that, by any means (to heal me) – but, it happened from the moment I got to hold him, until now… everyday, really.
Now, as time passes, I can almost forget what the ex’s face looks like… and when I look at my son, I realize it’s HIS face (my glorious, innocent son)… not the socio
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GettingIt says:
PureWaters,
There is a concept out there that we “attract what we fear”. To this extent, if we want or DON”T want something, it comes to be. So, try not to associate any fear with your son. It’s hard for me too, but I try to catch myself every time.
It may sound crazy, but I did “bring it on” and I should have known better. God does not punish, they say. God teaches.
Peace
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PureWaters says:
GettingIt,
I do agree that you can bring things on by fear, etc. I’m aware of that, but honestly, I feel fear sometimes. I don’t want to think that my son could be the monster his father was…
I know I can’t control that. If it’s genetic and good parenting won’t help him develop empathy… there’s nothing I can do other than submit my will over to God, and trust in Him.
I don’t want to live in fear continuously, and I think for the most part, I don’t think about the freakish stuff, anymore. I just live my life, and accept it for what it is…
But, the only other option would be denying my fear when it hits. Or, being afraid of fear… oh, boy.
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OxDrover says:
Dear PureWAters,
I sit here and read your posts and I SMILE because I hear your voice in my head from your posts and I know how I felt when I first came to LF—I FELT I HAD ARRIVED AT HOME! In a group of loving people who DID UNDERSTAND what I had been through! It felt so LIBERATING AND WONDERFUL!
We all have fears, and those of us whoo have kids with/without the genetics we do the best we can to teach them, and to impart a love for themselves and for others.
The story of King David was the greatest support for me. Read about his sonn Absalom. David ENABLED his son,, who was a psychopath (there are many stories in the Bible about psychopaths) and then his son eventually tried to kill him (civil war) and when it was over David grieved FOR HIS SON, not for the 20,000+ other people’s sons that had died saving his kingdom and his life.
David was a sinful man but he was called a “man after God’s own heart” and I think his example is for US—he sinned and the consequences were AWFUL to himself and othrs, but when he was CONFRONTED with his sins, he REPENTED and OWNED THEM. When his general confronted David about his grieving for his Psychopathic son and not for his FRIENDS he got up, washed his face and did WHAT WAS RIGHT!
We can look at David’s life as an example for us. We all make mistakes and we all do things we know are WRONG but we can and DO repent, psychpaths do NOT repent.
I’m not sure what if anything I did wrong with my P son, or if I even did anything wrong that pushed him toward the dark side, HE HAD FREE WILL, and I do believe that though they tend to have issues that are inborn they HAVE A CHOICE to be EVIL or not. To DO evil or not. I also believe that when they HARDEN THEIR HEARTS BY CHOICE, they reach a point of NO RETURN, and they are out of the hands of God into the hands of Satan. We all have that same choice.
Don’t DESPAIR even when you feel the FEAR. Acknowledge that FEAR and then pray and give it to GOD.
There are so MANY times that God gave me the wisdom to RUN when I needed to run to save my life, just like Jonathan warned David to run from King Saul.
I know that God could have kept Saul from trying to kilol him and DAvide wouldn’t have had to run, but there was SOME LESSON THAT DAVID NEEDED TO LEARN DURING THOSE YEARS HE RAN FOR HIS LIFE. Believe me,, I LEARNED A GREAT MANY LESSONS IN THE “WIlDERNESS” when I was running and hiding from my own son trying to kill me.
I think there were lessons I needed to learn and I hope I have learned them, and one of them is that I have to believe3 and trust that as the Bible says ‘ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD TO THOSE THAT LOVE THE LORD.”
We don’t always know how, or why, we have to learn to trust but we must…trust God, trust our instincts, trust ourselves to do what is right even if it is hard.
Keep your faith strong, even when you are afraid….((((hugs)))) and God bless.
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PureWaters says:
OxDover,
‘ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD TO THOSE THAT LOVE THE LORD.”
That verse from the bible, when I heard it at a funeral for my unborn nephew, “saved” me. My whole life changed from that moment on, and I saw a little glimpse of God’s plan for us.
Thanks for passing on God’s words and love. They are more special to me than any text book advice could ever give.
Keep me in your prayers! I’ll keep you in mine.
I have a long way to go…
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ErinBrock says:
Oxy:
Now just WHAT are you suggesting hens loads his balls with?
Just curious?
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OxDrover says:
Dear ErinB,
I’m not even going to bite at that one!!!! BE GOOD GF!!! LOL
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ErinBrock says:
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Hopeforjoy says:
One thing I have learned in this process is that there are no quick or easy anwsers. I must have the self help section memorized at Barnes and Noble but none of those books truely prepared me for the pain in this journey.
To hear my daughter singing, is a great joy, and I take comfort in the joys in my life. Sometimes I don’t stop and look at the truely wonderful people in my life because I’m overwhelmed by the negative situation of living with the spath.
LF has been a blessing, has opened doors for me more than the self help section ever has. For that, I am eternally grateful.
Tomorrow is the last session with Dr. S. and I am going to let him know that I want a divorce, periord. I’m filling and it’s for the best, I hope we can be amicable and work out the best situation for our children. I’m terrified, as always. I used to write letters to the psychologist when we were in couples therapy, because I was too afraid to speak aloud. He only went ‘for me’, cuz it was my fault afterall. Wow, I was a sissy.
Anyway, hope tomorrow goes well and my anxiety is for nothing.
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behind_blue_eyes says:
“LF has been a blessing, has opened doors for me more than the self help section ever has. For that, I am eternally grateful. ”
I second that…
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one_step_at_a_time says:
hope4joy – you will need to be as strong as you can for the appt tomorrow. please don’t hold out any hope that the process will be amicable. it won’t.
you will have to fight. so, be prepared in your mind that it will be difficult, BUT that you CAN do it. we are here, and we will help all that we can.
be strong.
take good care – you are worthy and you and your family deserve a good life, not what you have been living. keep that in mind, and hold the image you created to remember what he is.
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ErinBrock says:
Hope:
Do you need to tell him? Or are you hoping counseler will guide you through separation?
Don’t plan on amicable…..
I’d make sure attorney is ready to fire right away with docs.
His niceties will surely change….
He’ll flip flop between kiss ass and nasty and back and forth.
Make certain you have everything important out of home…..things will disappear or get broken.
Good luck….i;m sending you some EB mojo!!!!
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Buttons says:
{{{{Hopeforjoy}}}} EB has it spot-on, kiddo. It is not going to be amicable. It’s just not. The counselor being a witness is fine and dandy, but once you’re both out of the office, it’s going to get ugly. The games will begin in earnest. If you believe that the soon-to-be-ex was being nuts, recently, it’s going to get much worse before it gets better.
Now, I don’t say these things to frighten you or to cause you to waffle on your decision. I’ve been precisely where you are with the same type of Thing that you’re dealing with. It is a pattern – when they believe that they’re goint to lose their property and source target(s), they turn nasty very quickly. It may be a pendulum thing where he’s lovey-dovey one minute, and explosively vicious the next. And, it does change from moment to moment.
The one thing that the counselor told me when I had made my decision to divorce was this: I did not HAVE to engage in conversation or discussion with the ex spath. Even where the children were concerned, there would be no semblence of reason. The children were property – TOOLS – to use to cause harm and damage.
Just be prepared, Hope. I’m with EB and sending you positive vibes and healing energies. Brightest blessings.
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hens says:
EB I think you need to bottle that mojo of your’s and sell it by the ounce. EB MOJO. Glad the subject got changed since your post this morning..you can tell OX and Onestep I am still upset that they called me stoopid.
HopeforJoy and Blues Eyes – I agree with your feelings about lovefraud, it’s a great place.
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ErinBrock says:
Hens….I say…..get the paintballs ready and aim at Oxy and One……
One likes rainbow colors…..
Oxy….well……she wants them filled with something special…..
your guess!
XXOO
EB
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Buttons says:
Somebody needs to bottle SOMEthing!
I’m coming down off of a bout of….vertigo! Can you believe that???? The meds had me so gooned up that I didn’t know what planet I was on, most of the time. I’m sure I posted a few things that made absolutely no sense in the past couple of days! LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Holy shitballs – where’s the Tylenol!
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ErinBrock says:
Buttons:
I hope your feeling better….I hear Vertigo is a bear!!!
Feel better darlen!
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Buttons says:
EB, thanks – it’s like being on a really, REALLY fast carnival ride. And, the drugs that they prescribe are nuts. If I had found a bib around my neck to catch the drool, I would not have been surprised!
I’m GONNA get better!
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hens says:
Buttons I wont ride carnival rides that spin round and round cause I will puke and be dizzy for hours .As a kid I couldnt even ride the merry go round at school..I think vertigo would be a very bad thing to deal with, hope you get better soon..
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erin1972 says:
Ya’ll the shooting range is the best therapy and stress reliever-ever and I do feel so much safer as a single woman living in the most dangerous city in the country. When I go out alone at night, it’s next to me in the car.
Once I become a police officer I will get a taser also-too go with my guns. As part of my police academy training I have to get hit with the taser myself and get pepper sprayed in the face. The pepper is just as bad as the taser. They tell you to go and you run out and they spray you in the face and then you have to fight a member of the SWAT team. It’s cool cuz there’s no rules. It is a test to make sure that you don’t lose your gun. The object is for the SWAT team guy to take your gun after you get pepper sprayed. You fail the test if he succeeds and you only two times to pass it or you don’t graduate. One of the girls that I know of actually bit the SWAT team guy. That’s why I’m getting ready to start martial arts. I have been given hints by some of my friends in my original class about managing it.
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Hopeforjoy says:
Buttons,
I am feeling so guilty right now. I can tell that husband is sad and I feel like a jerk. He has been love bombing for the last month, or more, seems to care about the kids and for once in our marriage has been really ‘trying’. Guilty, guilty. He may be a narcissist and is experiencing narcisstic injury, I don’t know.
Tell me how it went with you. He has not be physically abusive and actually listened to me when I told him to please not hug me. I sound really messed up, because I am. It’s the loss of a dream, it’s just a loss. I can’t fix this, I have to keep reminding myself, this isn’t my fault. Buttons, tell me how it was in the end, when you were firm with wanting him out. I just want someone to hold my hand through the whole thing, even if it’s a virtual hand. Thanks
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Hopeforjoy says:
Also Buttons,
Sorry to hear you aren’t feeling well. My girlfriend had vertigo and said it was horrible. Something was wrong with her inner ear. Take care, feel better.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Buttons,
High thee to a medical practitioner! With the vertigo, it might be something simple, might be a medication reaction or could be worse, so don’t take any chances, get your butt to the doctor!!!
Henry, just shoot me with whatever color you want to splat on me!!!! My son C does that paint ball stuff and he has scars all over his arm and even head and neck from being hit at close range with those things! BTW you can FREEZE the paint balls and they are lethal!
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OxDrover says:
ps Henry,
None of us here are STUPID, but I think we’ve all been STOOOOOOPID from time to time, and I am not leaving out MYSELF in that opinion!!! (((hugs)))) LOL
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hens says:
Ox and Gang I have something to tell ya, a man bought some property down the road from my son, he is building a house, he is single, he is 75, he has taken a liken to me, I thinks he’s “interested’ in me, he asked for my phone number but I didnt give it to him..I have not felt so young in years~!
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erin1972 says:
hens-OMG that is so sweet. That makes me happy!
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hens says:
erin72 I thinks he’s a nice man, a good man, but I have no interest other than a platonic friendship and I will maintain that with him but I can tell he wants more and I just am not interested..
Erin back to your other post about friends..when I realized my X BF was a sociopath and I did so much investagation into physcology and personality disorders and learned alot about myself I realized most of my casual friends were toxic relationships as well..so I dont have too many friends these days..just a few. It’s funny how I used to believe what ever came out of a persons mouth to be the truth, now I am like ok tell me another lie asshole..
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OxDrover says:
LOL ROTFLMAO Well,, Henry darling, that’s great! You know you could be the “YOUNG SWEET THING!” Is he rich? LOL
Yea, that’s the problem with me, all the over 80 set thinks I am young and sexy and the guys my age are wanting a gal 40 or so. Hey, maybe you could be friends with him anyway, it doesn’t mean he might not be a nice guy. I have a cousin lives down the road from me who is 75-80 and was married for years and when he was 45 or so He got divorced and took up with the gay crowd. Moved back to home country and bought a cute older house and fixed it up like a doll house, and has been a really active part of the community. His health is going down hill now, but hey, he’s a great guy and everyone likes him.
Besides, folks are living longer healthier lives these days, so you never know. You could at least see if you and he have anything ELSE in common besides a sexual orientation for guys. LOL
And hey, I’m “interested” in you and we both have in common that we like GUYS! Does that make me gay? LOL ROTFLMAO
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hens says:
no ox your not gay – just a horny ole lady
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hens says:
p.s. yes he’s rich and I admire anyone at 75 building a house~!
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erin1972 says:
hens-you’re so right about the whole friends thing. I used to believe everything that came out of peoples’ mouths too and now I am exactly the opposite. I don’t trust anything anyone says anymore. People really have to prove themselves to earn the right to be my friend. I have really learned to watch peoples’ actions instead of their words. This last man that I thought was the “love of my life” had brought me out of the vicious cycle. He was the last of the sociopaths that I seem to attract. I will never fall for another one of them.
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OxDrover says:
Well, Henry, I have some friends who built a house at age 82 for them both! So you know, lots of people have good health and minds at older and older ages, so I say go for the gusto!!!!
Well, since I slept til noon today (didn’t get to sleep til daylight cause of the cortisone shot for the wasp sting keeping me awake!) I think I’ll go back to cleaning house, might as well get some use out of this energy and being awake this late.! Was sweeping off the back deck today and found another nest inside the BBQ, but got them suckers before they got me, and sprayed that sucker!!! GOOD!
Done so much though that my back is complaining and old bones creeking! Wish I was rich and could hire a maid!
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shabbychic says:
hens, cool !!!! you are the silver haired fox.
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ErinBrock says:
Hens….
Sounds like a great opportunity to make a nice friend!!!!
Nice friends sometimes lead into something beautiful.
Don’t burn the wedding dress just yet…..just get to know the old fart!
He might be needing a landscaper at very least!
And besides…..can you see the look on your DIL’s face when she finds out your doing her neighbor!!!
PRICELESS!!!!!
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Wini says:
Erin, I just read your Saturday post. I love being by water too. That’s a great idea taking your family and dog walking near the water. I think it takes us a long time to get out among others again because of the severity of our injuries. If we were in traction in a hospital bed, people would visualize our injuries. Because our injuries are not visual, people who haven’t been through what we endured … can’t quit comprehend all of it. They think they know, but unless they go through it, they really don’t grasp the depth of all the levels it hits us on … especially the level of personal safety among others. I think that’s what I detested the most, was loosing that trust in others for simple situations (e.g., being in a bank line just doing my banking). For years after my violation I would look around to see if a Spath was coming in to rob the bank.
I saw something this past Saturday … at a friend’s picnic. I saw pain on so many men’s faces. Of course, overhearing or personally listening to their stories of divorces (years ago) from former wives who took them for everything and left them high and dry with no reason but simply took off with another man … I said one sentence to them “Oh, don’t blame yourself, you know she doesn’t know what love is and therefore, can’t love”. That was it. I didn’t get into detail and overwhelm them with what we’ve learned on this site. The picnic went on for hours … around 11:00 p.m. some of those men made their way over to me in the kitchen (while helping my friend clean up) … and said to me … you made total sense to me. How in the world did you come up with that fact? I just said, it’s not your fault. Stop blaming yourself for your Ex’s bad behavior.
Hey, something good had to come out of all this pain. It’s true though, once you go through this type of devastation, there is a certain look on our faces and when you see another who’s endured the same pain, it’s like looking in the mirror. Then we can reach out and help another member of our society of LFers.
Peace.
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Rosa says:
Henry:
I agree with Erin Brock in that this could be a great business opportunity for you.
Single, 75, rich, building a new house, AND he likes you.
This new house is going need some trees, shrubs, and flowers to finish it off, and make it beautiful.
Give him your business card, and tell him you would love an opportunity to bid on the project.
Keep it strictly business, though….because it sounds like he’s hot4U.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Hey Rosa….
Maybe you just gave Hens an idea for his new, shiny Tundra’s licence plates…..
Hot4U!
I can see it now hens…….Flaunt it baby!!!
Like it!!!!
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ErinBrock says:
Wini:
Your post made me ponder….
The guys you met at that party……still pissed off from their (years ago) divorces and the ex taking everything etc….
WELL……One of those men could have been my ex spath.
I am sure he is one of the men you ‘met’…..and this is his story…..the story of being victimized by the biatch of an ex, who went crazy and ‘stole’ everything , including his kids….she poisened my kids against me yadayada. Everything I worked for I lost to that biatch.
NOW…..how do we know if these men were the victim OR the PERP.
I am certain all the folks my spath comes into contact with think he was downtrodden, robbed and destroyed by his biatch ex wife and HE is the victim.
I am certain he doesn’t share the real facts with them…..like he kept them secret from his attorney……he will maintain victim status to draw folks in.
IF he was one of those men at your party, the advice you gave them would not be accurate AND provide him another excuse for his list.
SO……In that situation, I remain silent. Most men I meet who are divorced, dont have anything else to say, but ‘I was robbed’ type stories to tell of their ex……and I know not ALL of them are honest about it…..and i’m thinking very few are telling the real truth……most re-write history to become a victim to suck peeps in to their pity ploy!
WHY are they still talking about it years later at a party?
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sistersister says:
Famous last words, from above:
“Sometimes the first clue that you have a problem with them is when people come up to you and ask how you could possibly be so cruel to them.”
Ironically, your first clue is when somebody’s telling you there is no clue. That other person is fine!
I have experienced this so many times, especially in group situations, that I react as with a reflex. Gone in 60 seconds. The whole group loves somebody; the only one she/he has a problem with is ME.
So there must be a problem with me. Right.
Talking about “gaslighting.” The whole world says you’re nuts.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Sister,
AH yes!!!! My P son wrote the trojan horse P that he got along with everyone in the the family, and I didn’t so therefore the problem had to be ME!@!!!!! ha ha ha
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hens says:
ErinB and Rosa He aint that rich…~!
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Buttons says:
{{{{{HOPEFORJOY}}}}} I wish I could clap my hands and either give you an easy answer, or wish away your situation. But, there IS no easy answer. And, if wishes were fishes, world hunger would not be an issue.
Your soon-to-be-ex is making you feel guilty. Make a list of what you SHOULD be feeling guilty about. Should you be feeling guilty for any of the following reasons:
* taking blame to keep the peace
* tolerating his perversions as “acceptable” to make it “work”
* enduring emotional neglect
* enduring the withold/reward tactics
* carrying the weight of the relationship on your shoulders, alone
* all of the above
* none of the above
“For once he has been trying?” ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? It takes for a threat of divorce for him to finally “TRY?!?!” Oh, the ex spath did the same thing – went to a few marriage counseling sessions, and realized that he couldn’t continue the facade and went back to his patterns with a vengeance.
Finally listened to you when you told him that you didn’t want him to touch you? FINALLY???? Remember the past – the very recent past, Hope. Recollect the sick, twisted, warped games that he played with you up until the immediate past. How many years? And, now – suddenly – he’s had a personal epiphany? NO…..NO……and, NO he hasn’t. He’s playing “The Game” of keep-away. Let’s keep Hope away from recollecting his past, predictable patterns of behavior, toss out the bone of possibilities, and reel in that gaping fish!
Hope, at the end, it was surreal. When I moved out into my own place, the ex spath actually helped me move. But, not before he went through my 5-6 boxes of belongings and extracted everything that he had once given me as a gift. “I bought this – it’s mine,” and so forth. Hell, I didn’t even WANT a Waterford crystal mantle clock, EVER, but he purchased it on an account as a gift for me using MY name! Oh, take it back, you jackass! Take all of it – it’s just Things, and I’m saving my soul from you. A fair trade, in my eyes.
Then, after I had been gone for a couple of months and his first two internet fish had flopped dead on him, he said to me (and, I quote), “Just come back home. Whatever has happened will remain in the past. Just come home.” Remain in the past? My dear god, but he blamed me for generating doctors’ bills when I broke my back, over and over, again. I can remember him clearly screaming at me, “YOUR bills are KILLING us!”
No, Hope. The soon-to-be-ex is not sad in the way that you or I or OxD or EB or One_step or any other member of this site feels sadness. It’s a ploy. It’s a facade. It’s a 100% fabricated ACT. He’s “acting” sad because that’s what he believes is appropriate. When that doesn’t work, he’ll resort to threats, insults, getting mean.
Throw that guilt back in his face, Hope. You have NOTHING to feel guilty about. You haven’t failed – you did everything short of selling your own soul to make it work. You are saving your very soul and your daughters’.
I’ll walk beside you along with everyone else on this site, Hope. But, you have to take those steps on your healing path under your own power. And, the most important steps for you to take are securing your safety and security by getting that Thing out of your home and your life.
Brightest blessings to you, dear heart. Remember that you are valued, beautiful, and so very, very important to many, many people.
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OxDrover says:
Dear Henry, Well maybe he could still hire you to seed his lawn and put in some shrubs…wouldn’t hurt to give him your business card, who knows, he might break a leg and need some professional help on his place. Doesn’t hurt to make friends any way even if you aren’t “interested” in him. Just set a boundary if he makes a pass and tell him, “Hey, let’s just be friends, okay? I’m not available right now.” He doesn’t know if you have a BF or not.
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