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BOOK REVIEW: How to Spot a Dangerous Man

Sunday, 4 November 2007 @ 9:49am • My Weblog

Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader:

I have been involved with a man for the past seven years. We don’t live together but he has stayed at my home on and off. Anything rotten in a relationship I have had to deal with–lies, cheating, humiliation, emotional abuse and financial, not that he took money from me but sponged off a single mother. This man makes good money and has never made a commitment to anyone, lots of broken promises and excuses. He has a problem with breaking the connection with me, always trying to get back in and regain his supply. I believe this man is a psychopath/narcissist. I have reverted to just trying to remain friends but I don’t think for him this is possible. He always tries to get back in. My married ex was also a psychopath and I was involved with another man, he was also a psychopath. How can we change this–always attracting the same?

It is not possible to remain friends with a sociopath (or psychopath or narcissist). The only way to deal with them is not to deal with them. No contact. At all.

But this letter asks a more important question, “How can we change this–always attracting the same?”

How to Spot a Dangerous Man

The first step in avoiding involvement with a sociopath is knowing that they are out there. If you’re reading Lovefraud, you’ve probably already had a painful run-in with a sociopath and are well aware that they exist.

The next step is to figure out why you allowed a sociopath into your life. For women who have been victimized, I suggest reading How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved, by Sandra L. Brown, M.A.

Brown describes eight types of dangerous men—men with mental illnesses and personality disorders that cannot be rehabilitated. Lovefraud readers will recognize most of the types as various shades of sociopaths. Brown describes their behavior, provides case studies of women who were involved with them, and includes red-alert behavior checklists. If you see the behaviors on the list, you should end the relationship.

Overriding our warning system

But many Lovefraud readers have intuitively known there was something wrong in a relationship, yet have had difficulty ending it. This is where Brown’s book will be extremely helpful.

Every woman, Brown says, has an internal system of red flags and red alerts that act as a warning system that someone is dangerous. Unfortunately, many of us ignore the signals.

“Somewhere between childhood and adulthood we have allowed many of our built-in alarm systems to become dismantled. Years of overriding internal warnings with reasons to move ahead anyway, combined with the ability to numb the feelings triggered by our own system’s messages, have deadened many women to the symptoms of being in a dangerous relationship. This perilous cycle can lead women to date four or five dangerous men before they begin to notice the spiritual, emotional and physical messages they have been ignoring.”

Brown then explains why women ignore the signals. Sometimes it is because of society’s expectations that it’s more important for women to be polite than to question the behavior of men. Or it’s more important for women to accept everyone unconditionally than to expect people to prove themselves as trustworthy. Or it’s more important to love the unlovable than to realize it’s not safe to love everyone. Or that it’s more important to believe everyone can change than to accept that some people can’t.

Dangerous Man Workbook

So how does all this apply to you? How do you figure out where you’ve been making mistakes? To answer these questions for yourself, I suggest that you also get the How to Spot a Dangerous Man Workbook.

The workbook prints lists of universal red flags—check the ones that you’ve experienced. It lists family traditions and early conditioning—check what you’ve been taught. And it lists loopholes for downplaying the dangerous behavior of men—check the excuses you’ve used.

In the next section of the workbook, you answer questions about your own experiences with dangerous men. How did you meet? Were they similar to your father or another influential relative? What were your first red flags?

If you honestly fill out the workbook, you’ll see your patterns and where you need to change. Because changing your expectations, enforcing your personal boundaries and realizing that you deserve better are required for you to stop attracting sociopaths.

Both books are available on Amazon.com:

How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved
How to Spot a Dangerous Man Workbook

Bookmark to:

written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •

gr8ful70x7 says:

Man, it bothers me that we as a society has regressed to the point such publications are necessary. Yet, as a male I feel the need to avail myself of such resources anyway. In my life I know that by living outside of the will of God and be doing that which my Lord does not condone, I open myself up for another lesson or set of lessons to learn!

Would I stay on the path, I’d not have to suffer such consequences for my poor choices. Nonetheless, the universe does offer correction and it appears perpetual.

While I don’t mind learning and growing, it seems in some ways I am retarded. However, when one considers the context, the society in which we live, it’s a wonder that more evil doesn’t occur.

The only thing that bothers me about this review is that the work appears to be rather sexist. I guess this is one to add to the feminist psychology literature. But that stuff doesn’t help women & men to relate, to unite, to form strong bonds and healthy relationships. My concern is that this book might add to the schism(s) between women & men and make it even harder for a woman to trust and to have a positive fulfilling relationship with a man.

Somehow, we’ve got to get back to the team work that prevailed between wife & husband BEFORE the early 20th century, before all the lies were spread that women were oppressed and men always oppressed women. There was more equality on the early American farm homestead than at any time since its demise in the last part of the 19th century when the Industrial Revolution kicked in and kicked families apart.

(Report abusive comment)

Wednesday, 14 November 2007 @ 1:02pm

blakewhite says:

to gr8ful70×7
your comment is interesting. I am stuck with a possible sociopath. and i have struggled with the very same conflicts that you mention. it is perhaps the reason i am stuck. i start thinking about what people had to do during the Great depression to help others have a roof over their head. what amount of tolerance did people have. tolerance of being harmed by the person they were trying to help have shelter. putting up with it because one probably felt too guilty kicking someone out onto the streets where there were so many other already homeless people. the economy is bad right now. i can’t get myself to make ANOTHER person homeless. it reminds me of the whole thing where the women’s lib movement led women to do soul searching and find the perfect career, spending lots of time doing self help stuff, etc. when men have had to work, especially in hard times, they did not have the luxury of soul searching. it was find work or starve. sometimes i think too that people resort to bad behavior just to survive. lying about qualifications to get work so that the heat can stay on. also, how much of the behavior is actually do to satanic forces. I didn’t believe that stuff before…but i do now. the bad economy right now and health problems of me and those around me are really puting all this into a different perspective for me personally. And you have verbalized some thoughts i’ve been unable to verbalize. thank you

Wednesday, 14 November 2007 @ 9:38pm

Fighter says:

I would also recommend reading up on Abandon-oholics… if you are one This web site says something VERY VERY significant to the admonition to ‘listen to your gut.’

How about following your gut?

If you’re an abandoholic, following your gut is probably what got you into these patterns in the first place. Your gut gets you to pursue someone who makes your heart go pitter pat, not because he’s the right one, but because he arouses fear of abandonment. And your gut gets you to avoid someone who is truly trustworthy, because he doesn’t press the right insecurity buttons.

Enrich your mind. Follow your wisdom. But until you overcome your abandonment compulsion, don’t follow your gut – it will only get you into trouble – because your gut tells you that unavailable people are attractive.

If you are a vulnerable person, your gut is flawed in the first place. That’s why websites like LoveFraud are so INVALUABLE!

Wednesday, 21 November 2007 @ 6:51pm

akitameg says:

Has anyone else experienced their sociopath conning a therapist or doctor/psychologist to try and keep them in relationship– as part of their deceit? i do not know if I can get over this part. If he could con a 60 year old psychiatrist– imagine how easy it was to con me? And then when he was “done” with me– the sweet girl working in a nursing home– he played “vicim” to me by crying and going to the therapist and telling him how mean I was and that he just could not take it any longer!!!

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:14pm

Dear Fighter–
Amazing– what I just read from your post.
I am adopted and this man knew of my traumatic past/severe abandonments. Unfortunately he used them to help keep me in his web.

will I ever get over being attracted to the unavailable?

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:18pm

Indigoblue says:

MIRRIOR effect The Con ! and THE HOOK! They are all so much alike and all (our) stories are all the same just different game pieces ! LOVE jere

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:22pm

the opposite of LOVE is use not hate !

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:24pm

letting-go says:

OH MY I was adopted as well and my ex used that against me too. Said no one wanted me because of the way I am…and what not. All because I didnt wnat to take his crap anymore. I just thought that was cruel and uncalled for. I now know both my biological and ofcourse adopted parents and both sets are wonderful people. Theses s/p can just be so mean with things they say…so why do we want to still be there in it? I once told him to not even come to my house…he leaves in another state and his reply was I wouldnt come to that lame place ever again…but still wants to get married and be a family..???? um am I missing something????

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:29pm

Elizabeth Conley says:

“Has anyone else experienced their sociopath conning a therapist or doctor/psychologist… ”

Oh yeah. Classic ploy. Narcissists and Sociopaths are both absolutely in their element when they’re swimming in drama. Sometimes the first clue that you have a problem with them is when people come up to you and ask how you could possibly be so cruel to them. They will actually start generating public sympathy against you BEFORE they sucker punch you!

Consider this: If they can fool you, why would you be surprised that they can fool mental health professionals, pastors, judges, police officers…yada, yada, yah.

By the time you consider trying to get help to deal with the problems the Sociopath or Narcissist has created, you may already have lost your reputation to their pretensions of victimization.

If I were you, I’d look at this phenomenon in a positive light. The sociopath/narcissist has fooled some pretty smart people, so you’re in good company. Sociopaths/Narcissists don’t bother to fool people they see as no challenge or having nothing to offer. It’s a kind of compliment that your Sociopath bothered with you, possibly the only sincere compliment he’ll ever offer.

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 4:57pm

“Every woman, Brown says, has an internal system of red flags and red alerts that act as a warning system that someone is dangerous. Unfortunately, many of us ignore the signals. ”

With me it was simply a good old fashioned Methodist background. We’re supposed to police our own behavior and question our own motives, constantly trying to be better Christians. We’re not supposed to scrutinize others. We’re supposed to accept them as they are and try to help them any way we can.

Now I try to remember to ask myself what I think of the people I encounter. It takes a conscious effort. From time to time I realize I’m acting like a doormat again, and I give myself a swift kick in the pants! People don’t have to be Sociopaths to whipe their feet on a doormat. It’s normal behavior. “Don’t be a doormat!” I remind myself several times a month.

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 5:06pm

Wini says:

Elizabeth Conley: Did anyone mention that “they” are spineless cowards and ooze with slime.

You know, if we built an ark today … to wash the sins and sinners off the face of the earth again … the likes of ‘them” certainly wouldn’t have a place in the ark … but then again, God promised he wouldn’t do this again … oh, well, we are a few centuries too late (LOL) .

Enough said.

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 6:56pm

OxDrover says:

WOW, so great comments from folks we haven’t heard from before! I wish everyone who reads here would post more!

Brown’s book is quite good, because unfortunately, society does teach women (and some men) that there “is good in everyone” (NOT true) and that our society teaches that “if you’ve had a bad break you just need someone to love you enough” (NOT true) and women are also ‘judged” by what their “attachment’ status in the society is, and unattached women are ‘not ok.’

As far as ‘making someone homeless” and feeling guilty about it, that is another thing, it is not YOU who are making them homeless, but THEIR BEHAVIOR, you are not required to take in every person who would mooch off of you or feel guilty. (I can relate to that one)

I recently had to ask some “friends’ to leave who by their poor decisions had come to live in their recreation vehicle (a motor home) and don’t have enough income to rent a space, so I let them live here on my farm (them paying their own electric bill) and they became ‘entitled” to walk all over me, not respect my boundaries, not behave with common courtesy and clean up after themselves, but to leave messes for me to clean up without any apology. To allow their dogs (which were dangerous to the life of my dog) to roam at will and potentially kill my small dog.

After confronting them on these boundary crossings, when there was no improvement in their behavior, I asked them to leave. I felt really “guilty” about doing this (I was still working hard on learning to set and maintain reasonable boundaries) but it WAS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE THEM A PLACE TO LIVE and ALLOW THEM TO ABUSE ME IN THE PROCESS. Now, I realize that it is not my responsibility to provide for anyone other than myself. I don’t have to feel guilty if I don’t let my friends and family abuse my hospitality. If these people TRULY care about me, they will NOT ABUSE ME. Therefore, since these people were abusing me, they obviously didn’t care enough about me to NOT ABUSE me. So, what have I lost? A friend? I don’t think they were much in the way of friends if they were abusing me, so I really haven’t lost anything except a continual pain in the neck and an irritation.

Like Elizabeth said “I”m no one’s door mat” and I am not required to be anyone’s door mat.

Like, you, Elizabeth, I like to help others, and I don’t mind helping anyone at all, but to have people accept my help, and decide that they are ENTITLED to have me assume their responsibilities for providing housing and a lively hood for themselves, is not “helping” it is ENABLING, and I am not going to enable others by taking over responsibility for them. I do police my motives, and I do try to be a better Christian, but even Christ didn’t encourage us to be door mats.

As far as “scrutinizing” others, Jesus advised us to “by it’s fruits ye shall know”—if a tree’s fruit is bad, the tree is bad (i.e. if the behavior pattern of a person is bad, the person is bad” ) That is not judging, but OBSERVING.

If a person is a chronic liar, abuser, user, thief, etc. then we are advised to get away from them, don’t associate with them, “don’t even eat with them.” GOOD ADVICE!

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 7:23pm

brenda1213 says:

my x socio had the local police convinced that i was the crazy one, he would go on his rampages (as me and my family call it. ) finally i got an order of protection so he cannot menace me or itimadate over phone, email, or in person. The judge dropped it on my kids(he can pickup at curbside)he convinces the judge he should be in there lives and is working on geting a job and a place where the kids can visit. and the judge gave it to him. so he convinced a judge he should still see his kids and the local cops that i get PMS really bad.

Tuesday, 4 November 2008 @ 10:55pm

Dear Brenda1213: Remember, courts need to stay neutral, having both parties interest at heart … that does not prevent professionals from children and youth services in your area to be overseeing the interests of all parties involved, you, your Ex, and the children.

I hope you remember to make the call to those professionals to help in your situation.

Peace to your heart and soul as you heal.

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 5:09am

Oh, and Brenda1213: Remember too, police are not judge nor jury, nor attorneys … they are to intercede in between … not to make judgments … but to do their jobs without taking sides. What you perceived at the time that they were taking sides, could have been that they were showing both you and your EX respect … not getting involved … just doing their jobs.

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 5:12am

to wini, thankyou for your input it makes sense, i still feel like his victim sometimes. i am seeking therapy for me and my kids, and my daughter has a social worker from MHA(mental health assoc.) i am healing, i just worry so much about my kids and him having a relationship with them, cause i know how dangerous he can be. peace to you

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 7:41am

brenda1213: I know how you feel … when our backs are up against the wall and we want to scream to the hill tops for everyone to naturally understand our concerns at that particular point in time … we loose site that others are there to intercede and protect all parties involved.

Remember, TRUTH floats to the top, no matter how many lies are piled on top of it … it does eventually surface and becomes victorious… you just need to be patient … it’s not instantaneous, even though we want so desperately for truth to surface.

Peace to you and your children as everyone heals.

I hope this is can be of some consolation to you … there is a reason for every thing to happen at the time it is happening … but it is on God’s time frame, not ours.

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:26am

Jen2008 says:

When we first met, my x P was all full of praise for therapist, in the sense of saying he thought communication was the key to relationships and that people ran away from problems too much (in reference to his former wives), and in his next relationship he had decided if any problems arose, he would be willing to do whatever it took to work thru the problems, even willing to go for couple counseling blah blah. HAHAHAHAHA!

In reality, this man hated therapists and the very idea of one. Late in the relationship, when I started seeing a therapist he was furious. Fortunately, when I said I had gone to see a therapist, I did NOT say the therapist name and there were quite a few in the area. He ranted about me seeing a therapist (how stupid it was and how I must be crazy if I was seeing a therapist). He also made the comment that when he went on his “serial killer spree” that the therapist I was seeing was gonna be tops on his list of people he wanted to knock off. I only saw that therapist six times, but I never did tell him the therapist name in spite of his badgering. Probably just an idle threat to try to get me to stop going, but by that time I realized he was dangerous and I wasn’t about to tell him who I saw.

But when he was court mandated to go to drug/alcohol class (conducted by a therapist) after his 30 day jail sentence due to another DUI, he was a model d/a participant. I know this because the therapist allowed family to come and he often wanted me to go with him. To listen to him in discussions you would have really believed he saw the error of his ways and was really focused and determined to clean up his life. He actually had me convinced that he was “working” towards giving up the booze (and drugs) permanently. That is, until he started bragging later (in front of me) to people about how he beat the random drug test because he STOLE a test (out of the therapist box of drug tests that the therapist left on a table in the lobby) so he could later use that stick to give to the therapist instead of the one he actually peed on during the random drug test. The therapist would accompany them to the bathroom, watch them pee, then send them out in the lobby to sit with their test until the colors on the stick processed. He was still drinking and doing cocaine the whole time.

He also stole sticks from the “clean” people out of the trashcan (the trash can was sitting outside the bathroom door and people woud throw their sticks in it.) Of course he wasn’t the only one stealing clean sticks out of the trash and tossing their dirty sticks in. I saw several people do it over time.

BTW, I also heard alot of discussions (immediately after each class) from some of these men and women, who were comparing notes on where to go to score drugs after class. And one night, one woman bent over to tie her shoes and her crack pipe fell out of her jacket pocket!!!!

Although I am sure some people in the class really wanted to beat their d/a problem, from the conversations I heard during break and after class, it seemed most of them (although certainly not all of them were sociopaths) were “conning” the therapist in the sense of telling him what they needed to say to make it thru the class, only attending because it was court ordered, and they seemed not in the least interested in giving up drugs.

I tend to think people who seek out a therapist would have a vested interst in being honest with the therapist, but someone who is court ordered into therapy or who has a spouse or family member pushing them into therapy, may tend to con or lie to the therapist, whether they are a sociopath or not, simply because they aren’t really interested in being there and getting help to begin with.

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 8:49am

BTW, I do not do drugs at all and was quite naive about them and drug users habits. I attended roughly 3/4’s of those classes and I will say it was one of the most educational/informative things I have ever done. It also gave me some great tools in being better able to spot a dug user that I may be associated with. If you ever get a chance to attend a drug program, I highly recommend you GO!

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 9:06am

Dear Elizabeth andJen2008–
Thank you for your responses. They are my first. There sure seem to be a lot of smart and compassionate people here.
So–anyone—HOW DO I RELEASE/LET GO/STOP OBSESSING over how I wish I could write or email or call or let that psychologist (By the way– yes– he was there b/c his mommie was paying for it– at the age of 39!) and convince him of WHAT he is working with– that he is part of this guy’s narcissistic supply?? Then again–I would now look bad b/c of the drama this guy has created to distract the truth being seen (His own deceit and evil.)
pure evil. That’s all I can say. But how do I let go of the above?? Or do I write a letter? Advice!
Wini– thank you for the comment on truth!

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 10:12pm

akitameg

OxD wrote sept 9 tue in archives

Forgive yourself for being Human

Also Aftermath:Surviving Psycopathy Google this good stuf Love jere

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 10:18pm

Dear Akitameg,

It takes a while to get over that “need” to contact them and “tell them off” or to “get closure”–the only way that is successful is to NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND. No phone calls, no letters, no texts, no voice mails. Don’t listen to them, don’t read them, no contact at all. Don’t even talk to someone (other than here) about them, don’t let anyone tell you about how they are doing or deliver messages for them to you.

Thisis important to let your mind free up from the FOG they have had you in. It WORKS, but it does take time.

Come here and read and read and learn about them, the articles here are very informative and interesting and will give you insight into how they have twisted your mind and spirit. THE FUTRE IS BETTER, it will be better, but it is WORK and hard work at that, but you will find that it is worth it. COMPLETELY worth it! I speak from experience on that, and I have cried buckets of tears, screamed thousands of “bad words” pounded my head into the pillow, the floor and the wall. But now I am FREE and I am happy, and I have a life again! Life is GOOD! God bless. Hang in there.

Wednesday, 5 November 2008 @ 11:35pm

Thank your Jere and OcDrover!

ARe we allowed to talk about sex with the psychopath (Sounds like a book in itself.)?
I do not want to break any boundaries. Nothing graphic.

Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 7:17pm

Dear akitameg,

This blog talks about just about everything, and as long as it is not “prono” then I don’t think there would be a problem, but if you have a question, you can e mail Donna Anderson, the owner of this site and ask her, or e mail her the thing you want to post and ask her if it is okay with her. She is a pretty cool gal, and no topic has been labeled “off limits” except flaming another member or “preaching” religion or philosophy to someone else. This is one of the nicest, most friendly sites that I have ever been on.

We have some pretty diverse opinons here but everyone seems to respect every other poster’s position. Glad you are here, this is a healing and safe place. Welcome.

Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 8:39pm

Is gr8tful 70×7 still around?
just read an old post of his and would really, really like to contact him.

Thursday, 6 November 2008 @ 10:09pm

Here Here Why can’t we say People instead of male or female ????

Bloogert1765?

it’s us Human beings it’s not male or female

Sexual exploitation has always been here ! For a male to be taken advantage of by a female is Old school boy redneck backwoods RIGHT OF PASSAGE! And most of the time the male is plum happy to be taken advantage of !

But the laws have changed this because they could’nt be seen to keep looking the other way and there is $$$$$$ involved !

I don’t condone any of it but ! The right of passage to man hood In american Indians is 10 ! when will america wake up from purtain ideals ?

Drinking laws 21 to give your LIFE 18 ?????????????

Dont ask dont tell??????? Don’t get caught! LOVE jere

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 1:00am

I am a new victim and the biggest problem I am facing believe it or not is
> that–
> Here I was– in love with this man. My sex life with him- for two years
> was wonderful. Euphoric actually.
> Six weeks ago–I find out he is a sociopath and needless to say– I would
> never contact him again– much less be intimate.
>
> So– why is it literally depressing me and causing me EXTREME hurt and
> anxiety to think of this person– or the person he pretended to me– being
> intimate with someone else????
> This makes me sick. I thought he was “forever” and he continuously said
> that he was–
> especially during love making.
> We also had fabulous chemistry– I am 39– trust me– I will not find this
> again.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this? Here I am– thinking of how he will be
> with– and most likely is already with another woman and I feel sick and
> jealous???? What?
> Wait a minute! This man has no conscience. had NO empathy for me. Lied
> to everyone and created smear campaigns about ME– Made me out to be a nut
> with his family, friends and therapist so that when he was “done” (His mom
> died and he is going to inherit)– that he could blame me. The sweet girl
> who is a therapist with Alzheimer’s’ residents everyday!!!
>
> I hope to God that what someone wrote yesterday (Fighter?) about being
> attracted to abandoners is true. Maybe my subconscious knew what he was?
>
> Then again– if I had followed God– I never would have had sx with him.
> And this never would have happened.
>
> Ughh.
>
> Feeling very, very scared, alone and hopeless that I will never get over
> this sx part.
>
> I am lusting over a Ted Bundy type.
> This is really sick.What is wrong with me?
> And yet– I feel one reason it was so good- was that he had sooo deceived
> me into believing he was “forever. I trusted him. The words, the tears,
> the stories of persecution.
> And he was gorgeous. Physically that is.
> thanks
>

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 9:52am

Stargazer says:

A strange thing just happened to me. I went on Amazon.com to buy an exercise dvd. You won’t believe what the first sale item was that popped up on the home page!!!??? It was the book “How to Spot a Dangerous Man.” Needless to say, I took it as a sign and bought it. It was only about $7.50.

akitameg. There is nothing wrong with you. You were duped and deceived. You are in love with the image he wanted you to be in love with, but that person doesn’t exist. It is like being emotionally raped. I’m so sorry you have to go through this (we have all been there). It is a major trauma, and it will take time to heal. The sociopath I dated for only 2-1/2 months fell in love with me and I with him in a short time (or so I thought). He also professed undying love for me. Until I found out he was married and trying to defraud the military out of a fake medical discharge. The way the story unfolded was unbelievable and the lies that came out in the end were incredible. He seemed like the real thing. I am a pretty smart cookie, and he certainly fooled me and my friends too. The sex was also great with him, though the relationship was brief. And sex is very bonding. It will take you some time to get over this. Stick around here. You will find some very compassionate listeners who understand what you are going through.

Before I met this guy, I never knew such people existed. What a wake-up call.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 11:20am

thank you Stargazer.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 11:43am

I am experiencing huuuuge depression. was discarded by my S 6 weeks ago. He had even conned a shrink who kept telling ME I WAS in the wrong when I doubted this man’s comittment.

I have left my job and the state in which I resided for 10 years. Have no money..No insurance. Staying with friend in one room apt in a major city.
Need job- how can I even function?
Losing my mind. Have no kids.
Any advice?
What if I do not survive this pure/raw evil?

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 12:07pm

Beverly says:

Dear akitameg. At 39, time is on your side, but I really feel that if you are feeling depressed, that you should treat yourself in the most delicate fashion and enlist all the loving and practical support you can get. Coming out of this type of relationship is like coming out of a disaster zone and has a deep impact on the physical and the psyche. During this phase, I treated myself ever so gently.

Those with PDisorders are very accomplished at creating the ‘fizz’ in relationships, but lets face it, if they are liars and cheats, then it doesnt matter how attractive they are, your wellbeing will be always at risk. Also I kept telling my ex to stop putting me on a pedestal, they raise you up and then drop you from a great height – crunch. I will never again fall prey to that kind of a relationship, yet this kind of relationship is ’sold’ to us through songs, stories and films. The other part of the physical side, is that we mix our energies with our partner and hence the deep connection. You will survive and you will heal. I am convinced I developed cancer through the stress and I survived that.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 1:34pm

Hey everyone–
You now what my brain is obsesses with and it makes NO SENSE? Here this guys was undoubtedly a P. My brain/mind keeps getting jealous with thoughts of him like– meeting a new girl (which I know he already has) and living happily ever after. I feel he will all of a sudden be the perfect man I thought he was, not be a P anymore and make someone a wonderful husband.
I should have known. His exwife was this gorgeous woman from Japan. Great cook. Made great money. Sweet. he cried “victim” to her “abuse”.
Damn–he did to me what he did to her. The whole fam did.
Does anyone know what I mean by thinking they are going to meet a perfect partner and live happily ever after?
I think this shows that the almost unconscious undermining he did of me– really got to my psyche.
I also have obsessive thoughts about him going back/conning his exwife. God I hope she has learned that he is an N.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 4:07pm

Dear Akitameg, I know exactly what you say. In the early days of the breakup, I had to resist the temptation to drive past his place and when I drove past recently and I saw he had new bedroom curtains, a part of me felt jealous. And I had thoughts that he is just fast tracking through different partners until he finds the right one. But hey, when I pull my thinking together, and keep reminding myself of the way he treated me, when I was so good to him, I cant imagine that he will ever have a successful relationship with anyone – not the kind of successful relationship I would like. He will just find someone else to put up with his behaviours and believe me, he will not be able to stop his behaviours showing up. I gave him every chance and was always questionning myself, perhaps I should have been more accepting, perhaps perhaps?? But where am I in the scenario. And I ask you the same question – where are you in the equasion??

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 6:05pm

Iwonder says:

Hi Akitameg,

It’s been awhile since i’ve posted. I’m 6 months post-sociopath. I was with my ex 2 years also. I gave him money, a free roof over his head for him and his son, bought him clothes, paid his bills, took out a car loan for his car and put his name on the deed to my home. Only to find out there was another woman in the picture the entire time and he was telling her he was going to leave me for her. He wasn’t really. He was using both of us for money and he’d go over her house after causing fights with me. He was manipulative, jealous, conrolling, dominating, verbally and physically abusive. He got me fired from a great job.

I find myself crying less. Around 10 days ago, I dropped off his stuff he was keeping in the garage to him at his GF’s. Then ex mailed me the keys back to my garage last week. I find myself crying less but still depressed but it’s more like anger instead of hurt. I’m angry at myself for being taken for a fool. I could have lost my condo and the car I got him so things could be worse but I’m flat broke. Don’t be jealous. She’s gonna get hers..just like we got ours. All I have to do is think about the way he used me, cheated on me, lied, and abused me and I never want to have that happen to me again. It’s frightening sometimes thinking about how it happened. It was so well planned-out and methodical. An evil plot to take me down and use me up and then go onto the next to do the same. Truly sickening.

It’s so hard to focus on my job during the day and hard to focus on everyday tasks like paying bills, shopping, etc. It’s like I’m in shock and on auto-pilot until the shock wears off.

What sucks is that I became very attached to his 15 year old daughter. She got pregnant so the ex turned his back on her. It’s like he’s punishing her for making a big mistake in her life. I emailed her today and she was happy to hear from me. She said she misses her dad and cries herself to sleep in the night. He won’t look at her or have anything to do with her. I just let her know there’s nothing she can do but pray and maybe send him a letter telling him how she feels. He discarded his own daughter who needs him the most right now. But this story isn’t new. He has 5 other kids out there he discarded and never knew. Just awful. An awful person. Twisted.

Does anyone believe that perhaps sociopaths are being influenced by the devil or possessed by demons? I know it sounds far-fetched but there are stories in the Bible where Jesus cast-out demons of mentally ill people.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 8:35pm

Ewwwww!! When I think that my ex would go to the OW’s house for s-e-x and then come home to me for some more, I wanna barf.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 8:38pm

OMG. I just thought of something funny though. 2 months after i kicked him out he called and wanted me to pick him up (remember, i took the car back,) maybe he didn’t really want to wind up living there but she was good to have on the side. Now he’s stuck there (i didn’t pick him up of course.) How funny is that? He made his bed with her now has to “lie” in it everynight! LOL! LOL!!

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 8:41pm

What up, wonderwoman? I was wondering where you went!!! (I’ll bet that’s the most w’s ever used in a sentence).
I’m glad to see you in good spirits.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 8:54pm

Hey Superstar! You are my super hero because like me, you didn’t lie down and roll over when you were taken for a ride. I got the filed copy of the deed to my condo from my lawyer today. I’m just trying to pull myself together. It’s a slow-go cause I was with him 2 years.

What still haunts me are two scense I play back over and over again in my head. The first was last year a few days before Christmas. He started a fight with me and grabbed me by the throat, spit in my face and called me a ho. I’ll never forget the look on his face staring me down. I thought he wanted to hurt me bad. Then he stormed out to go to the OW’s house. I think of that scene and the last time I saw his face…10 days ago when I dropped off the crap from the garage. This time, the face was shaken, scared. He couldn’t even look me in the eye. He was powerless. Do you know why that is? He knows that I know who he is. The devil himself. And he knew what I was…..afraid no more!

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 9:06pm

Hey, Wonderwoman,, missed you lately!

To answer your question–IMHO–if I believe in God, (goodness) then I also have to believe in Satan (EVIL) and I do believe that we (humans) have a choice (except for those poor folks who are not in touch with reality and don’t know right from wrong) and I believe the Psychopaths have CHOSEN the “dark side” (Just like in Star Wars).I believe they chose to embrace and enjoy evil. I believe that there comes a point where it is impossible for them to change that choice. The Bible talks about people’s hearts being so “hardened” that they refuse to listen to the truth, to humble themselves.

I don’t believe that God or the universe “makes” anyone choose EVIL, that a person is ust created “evil” and has no choice. I beleive that even Satan had a choice, and he chose EVIL. Of course all these thoughts are JUST MY OPINION, and there is no objective evidence one way or the other. This is in the realm of philosophy, faith and belief. So my opinion is just that, my opinion.

I wonder, you talked about him having sex with the OW and then coming home to get more from you—that is a CHOICE. No one forced him to do that. Even if there is biology and genetics involved in psychopathic personality disorder, never the less, nothing forced him to DO THAT, he chose to do it. He knew it was wrong (if he hadn’t known it was “wrong” he wouldn’t have hidden it).

If that makes him “possessed by a demon”–then I guess he is/was. But I think because he had “free will” and “a choice” the responsibility is HIS.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 9:07pm

Hey Ox,

I know you know your Bible stories. I think about Job. How satan told God he could test Job’s faith if God would so allow. Therefore, God gave satan the green light and said, ok, go and inflict all these things on Job and you’ll see his faith is true. See, it think God lets satan roam the earth and tests our faith everyday. But you must be right about free will because it was Job’s “free will” not to curse God for the inflictions he had to suffer.

We have to remember, sociopaths don’t have a conscience and don’t feel empathy. This is the problem I struggle with. Is it the physical mental health problem that causes them to do the things they do or is it because satan has entered their hearts?

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 9:18pm

Here is my answer to that question. It doesn’t matter–they’re just bad news. (bowing to NC)

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 9:58pm

Wonderwoman, NO one deserves to be treated the way you were. If someone even treated one of my animals like that, I would stomp their face to the ground. (Sorry, that’s not very ladylike but it’s true).

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 10:02pm

No, I didn’t lie down and roll over, Wonderwoman. I turned my ex in when I found out what his con was. They told me he was on suicide watch. For a few hours I felt guilty, like I was ruining his life or something. Then I remembered that I was genuinely suicidal for a month after I found out how he played me. They make their own bed. Like Martha Stout says, if you want to know whether someone is a sociopath, just follow their lives. In the end they usually end up murdered, in prison, or in some other pitiful condition. It’s not our job to save them or protect them. For those who feel sorry for a sociopath who’s had a bad childhood, let me just say that I had a horrendous childhood. I don’t steal, lie, and con people.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 10:08pm

Star: I know he’s a sick individual. I got confirmation he did the same thing to the woman before me. That was his wife. She and I email a few times a week. She hasn’t been with him for 3 years and she’s been in Jersey all the way to Florida since Sept to see if she could get him to cooperate with divorce papers. She mailed him the final signed paper a month ago and he’s dodging her not letting her know if he got the paper to the courthouse. It’s all about control. She moved on and wants to re-marry in the near future but he’s being an arse. Not answering the phone or texts. She wants to get back to Florida and get on with her life but he’s got that on hold.

Writing to the wife was helpful with healing. It lets me know it wasn’t me and lets her know it wasn’t her….it’s him. He’s not right. He treated us like objects. He wouldn’t let her out of the house and cut her off from friends and family and abused her…just like me.

My ex knows I chat with the wife and of course doesn’t like it. He is totally exposed. All these red flags and the current victim is ignoring them all.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 10:17pm

Star: Do you know how mean this guy is? We were engaged and he referred to me as “fiancee.” The reason I put his name on the deed was per his request. I told him ok, as long as we are getting married. On the day he was signing the deed papers and getting them notorized, he called me on the phone and said, “you know, I really don’t have to turn this property back over to you. it would be a civil matter and my word against yours. I reminded him I put his name on the deed because we were going to get married. He denied it. He said, “what? we never spoke of marriage.” “I didn’t move in with you to get married” “YOU insisted you put my name on to make me feel comfortable in your home.” I said “why are you lying? We went to look for rings, saw lawyers about getting your marriage to your ex annulled, etc.” How lousy is that? I asked, “are you lying saying these things because (OW) is there? So you don’t look so bad in front of her??” UGH. I know she was there listening. He’s got her believing who knows what. Can’t she see? Can’t she smell something stinks???? Doesn’t she feel like a piece of Charmin?

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 10:40pm

Wow, he gaslighted (gaslit?) you! I can’t imagine what that did to your soul to have to stoop to his level to communicate with someone so crazy and evil.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 10:43pm

Star: He called me while getting the papers notorized asking me to put something in writing stating he wouldn’t be responsible for property taxes. Then the argument ensued..with him starting it. We saw 2 lawyers 2 different times for his divorce. I paid $250 the first go around for the consultation, another $250 for the 2nd go-around consultation, gave the AH a check for $1250 to have the lawyer do the filing (he spent the money on God knows what) and then the 3rd time I paid $65 at the courthouse for him to file. I reminded him of this and he said, “you must be going senile in your old age….we never saw attorneys or anything!” UGH!! When I dropped off his crappy TV’s at the OW’s house 10 days ago, I put the file of the paperwork for the 3 divorce filings in a box and left that too. All the paperwork was completed by him…in his handwriting. I hope the OW took a gander at that. What a lousy liar. When we were arguing on the phone he complained about me taking the car away from him and claiming he had financing to put the loan in his name. I reminded him I gave him that opportunity but he had no credit so I took the car. I asked him if he has a car now…he does not. Let me see, if he has financing for an auto, then why doesn’t he have a car?? Wow. He needs some serious psychiatric help. I hope the OW enjoys driving him around in her car.

Friday, 7 November 2008 @ 10:50pm

You must feel so much lighter without this leech sucking the life out of you. Wonderwoman, when did you first suspect something was amiss in your relationship with him? Did it take a while?

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 1:54am

Good Morning Star:
The first 6 mos of our relationship was great but I did notice jealousy signs. I ignored it thinking it would go away in time. After 6 mos I was so hooked on him he started getting worse…and worse. I guess it was gradual. During the next year he became verbally abusive, controlling and dominating. I kept trying to correct him but nothing worked. It was a crazy cycle. After a verbal assault, he’d leave to “cool down” and come back saying he wanted to work things out. What he was doing was going to the OW’s house after the fights.

He did the same thing to the woman before me. I doubt things have changed.

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 9:41am

I think 6 months is a long time and I can understand how you can get hooked in much less time. It only took a few weeks in my case to get hooked in. I’ve heard it can take 6 or more months for the controlling behaviors to come out. Thank God I didn’t stick around long enough to see that. You are doing great! I’m very proud of you. It takes a while, I’m sure, for the toxicity of the relationship to wear off. In any dysfunctional relationships there is toxicity, but I think in the case of the sociopath it is much worse because their capacity to take responsibility is zero. They project EVERYTHING. It’s creepy.

BTW, did you see that I logged onto Amazon.com to buy a workout tape, and “How to Spot a Dangerous Man” popped up on the home page? I took it as a sign and bought it.

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 11:06am

Hi Star:
Yeah, he got me hooked good. He moved in 8 months after we were dating. I remember he said he could never cheat on a woman while living with her. What a lie. We were together 2 years and all the while, he had been calling other women and actually acted upon starting a relationship with the OW 6 months after he moved in. It’s the same pattern. 3 mos after he was with the one before me, he married her. 6 mos later, he left her for me. Seems like he can take one-on-one for 6 mos at the most.

There was a huge difference between me and the woman prior to me. When he left her, she was sick over it for the entire 2 years until I called her to let her know I kicked him out and what he did to me. She kinda just slid away hoping someday he’d contact her. With me, I didn’t crawl under a rock. He wasn’t going to get away with it again. She joined forces with me to expose all of the untruths in his face. Let me tell you Star, when I saw the ex 10 days ago, he looked like SH.. and he actually looked broken. All the lies he told to his wife and me. There was no empathy on my part at all, God forgive me. I know he’s using the OW now just for a free roof over his head and for his son to have a place to be with him.

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 3:03pm

Of course he’s broken. I’m sure if you follow his life, he will come to some sorry end like the rest of them do. Imprisoned for fraud, or an early death. Thank God you didn’t go down with him!

Good news. I just came back from the reptile expo. I did NOT see my ex there. I have to admit, I was a little jumpy and did scan the room a few times for a 6′3 bald guy, but thankfully, didn’t see him. I got in, cuddled a few snakes, got the frozen rats, and left. Got in, got out, got on with my life.

And for Indigo, who knows what these are, I got to cuddle some baby retics! These are my favorites–the tigers, super tigers, and albinos. They were the cutest little things I’ve ever seen that grow to be 20 feet long!

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 3:38pm

Thats albeanooooo dwarfs>right ! ~~~~~

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 6:58pm

As a matter of fact the albino was a dwarf. I wanted to take him home so bad. He wrapped his little tail around my purse strap and tried to climb into my camera case. So apparently it was mutual.

Saturday, 8 November 2008 @ 7:57pm

inthebreach57: I’m answering you on a smaller post … the filled up posts make this old computer slow down.

Yes, any anti-social personality always has to have control (that’s one of their insecurities that they haven’t resolved) and they do cause drama all the time because they don’t read the Bible to learn wisdom, so they stay as fools, fools that listen to their own big ego … instead of reading and learning Wisdom from the Bible.

I don’t care what name you want to give them, they all have ulterior motives when they get involved with real, caring, loving, decent people.

When we try to love them, they give us lip service … telling us what they think we want to hear. Behind the scenes, they use us for whatever they want to use us.

Good advice to stay at arms length from that aunt of yours. You can’t change her … just send her love.

When you get the chance, read former bloggs throughout the site and read all the articles that you can read to ensure you get a good education to learn what others know about the likes of “them”.

Any time you want to chat, just write. If I’m on-line, I’ll write you back.

Peace.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 5:43am

I will have none of this blogging to others Winch you will make me breakfast now and my coffee is not hot enough and the car needs the oil changed and I have lots of things to keep you busy while I watch football and you need to go to the store I am low on BEER !

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 5:59am

What’s the matter Indi … do you miss your EX so much … you need to imitate his bad behavior? LOL … this is just another good reason we need to stop focusing on what they are about … and focus on how great are healing is doing ….

Just a minute, I forgot where I put my arsenic … a little tsp goes a long way in coffee ya know? Get’s the job done 1st thing in the a.m.

Peace brother, peace.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 6:08am

Winch Get to work ! What do you mean ya can’t buy beer at 6am? Yes you can! Go to the HOOD they have a package lounge that sells anything at any time ! I want Grits too and hash browns I want my eggs over easy my toast just right and a big glass of milk ! Don’t forget to walk your dog! Hey are you LISTEN to me winch? Where did she Go Now !

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 6:13am

Indi, I was putting my 2 cents worth of advice on Larry King’s blogg.

Therefore, can’t be in 2 places at one time.

Besides, I told you that a tsp of my magic potion would do the trick … so ya can forget barking all the other orders out … you won’t get past your first sip.

Wink, wink … That’s my Palin imitation … DID SHE BRING HER POM POMS OUT YET? YEAH, RAH, RAH, GO ELITES… Just go.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 7:09am

Good Morning Wini:
I’m having my morning cup of coffee and read your post about sociopaths not reading the Bible. Mine can quote verse no problem. Mine can praise the lord and stay up to watch the Trinity Broadcasting Network. Then he can turn around and use the Bible to show you how much of a sinner you are. He said I shouldn’t cut my hair. . it’s in the Bible that a woman’s hair is her veil. Then he turned around and said I shouldn’t wear the clothes I wear because men will look at me with lust in their hearts and committ sin. Then he’d turn around and abuse me and say it’s in the Bible that the woman has to submit to the man and that a woman will never be equal to a man. And here he is. The liar. The devil himself. God Forgive me.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:40am

Indigo: You crack me up. I saw a guy posted on match.com recently that he was looking for a woman who wouldn’t mind staying home and keeping his house clean and that she really didn’t have to be very attractive. It cracked me up! At least he was honest. He was looking for a slave woman. I wonder if he got any responses to that one. LOL!

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:45am

lostingrief says:

indigo: you’re quite a character. where are you from?

Iw: you don’t have to ask god for forgiveness. there is no intent behind your words. all you did was love. it’s very human — and natural — to want some degree of justice, right?

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:47am

Winch HEAL or I will get up outa my chair and mess up your kitchen and kick your dog and step on your cats tail and spank your children for your insiboardnation ! the bibke say bow to me winch ! And that reminds me where is my BEER ? it’s friggin 9am suday mornin And I ain’t got no Beer winch If I have to get it my self I am going to need your credit card and your car NOW Winch! ~ LOVE jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:53am

Winches !

The South ! Oh well Florida home of the GAY mouse !:)

FLORIDA Where We VOTED for OBAMA Yes Yes Yes !

Now look at that vote map and YawLLl see where the south really IS ~ LOVE jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:57am

Indi: Get in your own car, get your butt down to the liquor store and buy yourself a case of booze with your own cash or credit. And when you come back, I need you to massage my feet and clip my toenails. There. HEALED.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:58am

LOL

But sweety PIE ,LIGHT of my life my sky ,my Breath , My MOON , my sun!

I ain’t got no $$$ ain’t got no Credit ain’t got no car! Please Sweatyyy The Game Is comming on inan hour! Love jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 10:02am

Indi: What about my itty bitty toes? Aren’t they important to you at all? It’s always about you and your needs.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 10:05am

Winch all you ever do is beoch , moan , nag ! Me Me Me is all I ever hear from you ! Winch after you go get my Beer you can Mow the yad ! Wash da car and clean ou t da Gayrage then I might let ya watch football with me after ya fix me Lunch! LOVE jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 10:10am

Indi: let me bend over so you can kiss my behind.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 10:11am

Indi: Your comment about the car was a sore spot. I’m such an idiot. I put $1500 down payment on a car, made his car payments for 16 months = another $4,800. Had to fix a dent he put in it for another $800. Oil changes, brakes, etc = another $1,000. Total = $7,100 I put into that car and when we split he felt he should be the one to keep it. I said, “what about the $7,100 I invested? Answer: “Well I don’t know what to tell you about that.” Also, “Do the right thing and let me keep the car.” “Keep the loan in your name and I’ll make payments until I get financing.” Reply, “What do you think, I’m an idiot? A finance company???” “The bank is closed!!!”

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 10:19am

UGH! A week before I discovered the OW, he took my credit card and went to GNC and charged $100 worth of protein powder he took for working out. Nice.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 10:33am

IKNOW

I bailed my PSYCO outa jail he had been in for like almost two months ! I had to put up my JEEP title for collateral ! I paid $40.00 for the cab ride to my place from jail they always let you go after midnight ! I took him to Silver Glen park the next day to snorkel and hunt for snakes and play Frisbee !

When it came time for me to get my title back He was to busy w/work to do any of the work ! I did it all and I said to my self thats the last time I do this he can rot in jail w/his friends next time ! LOVE jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:07am

Indi: I also had to do all the work to get the title to my condo back in my name. I had to mail letters out to courts to get dispositions regarding judgments against him. I had to make all the phone calls to follow up for those papers. I had to beg for him to drop those papers off to me after he got them. I had to beg him to go to my attorneys office for 2 months for him to sign the final papers..he ignored my calls and texts. I had to do all the work and pay $550 to my atty to finalize the papers, and on the day he signed the papers, he called telling me he didn’t have to do it if he didn’t want to (yeah, I blackmailed him so he had to.)

I bought his son shoes, clothes, put food on the table for both of them, cooked, cleaned, made sure his son did his homework, took them to museums and fun places. All he did was wake up and he was taken care of. The last few months we were together, he played video games on my computer. He ordered memory cards on my Dell account to make it go faster. He worked out in the garage where he called his girlfriend on the cell phone I paid for. He and his son did not lift a finger to help me with anything. I paid all the bills, mortgage, food and he treated me like an animal.

GREED, SLOTH, VANITY, ENVY, JEALOUSY, LUST

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:16am

Iwonder: You asked me that question before about your EX reading the Bible all the time … and can quote scripts to use against you.

My EX too can read the Bible.

Anyone can read the words on the page … It’s when you humble yourself to read the word of God is when you obtain wisdom.

Big difference of EGOS reading the words … they are and stay just words.

Remember, God knows what is in your heart when you do anything … open your heart when you read the Bible, and God’s wisdom will come out of the pages to you. If you are having trouble deciphering what is meant when you read any passage … pray to God to help you understand. That too, is written in the Bible.

I’m glad you wrote this blogg to me again.

Peace to everyone heart and soul as well heal from their abuse, move through the pain to be the best that God wants us to be.

SMILE, it’s contagious.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:20am

” For The , Lord , Will Bless the righteous; with favour will He surrond the , as with a SHIELD.” Psalm 5:12

” He shall cover you with His feathers , and under His wings shall you TRUST.” Psalm91:4

LOVE jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:26am

almost almost almost Totally UnFathomable ! TRUTH is stranger than Fiction! LOVE jere

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:31am

We have to remember that even though we are not with the exes anymore, we are not alone. God is holding our hands. There is NO ONE first before God. Our relationships should be with GOD FIRST. So when I get lonely, I talk to God and let him know that I know He’s there and I am not alone. Once we establish our relationship with God and feel we need no one else to love us except for Him, I believe truly, he will send us the right people in our lives and bless us and keep us safe from harm.

We have to remember when the next person enters in our lives, to ask God to bless the relationship and ask Him to guide us. Ask Him to take away that person if he is not right. Ahmen sisters (and you too guys.)

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:35am

Iwonder: God is always there for you and will never forsake you.

Whereas, humans are humans with all their flaws and frailties.

Humans can let you down, God never will.

What we see in our EXs is their fears and frailties. They are lost … pray for them to find their way.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:52am

so guys– how the heck do we forgive ourselves for being entrapped?

If I had stayed close to God while dating psycoboy–
I would never had stayed in his web of deceit. Too many red flags. Damn that bible is right on about so many things.
did anyone else make their P their higher power?

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 1:00pm

Believe me, this was a big thing for me too. I wrote an article called “Forgiving ourselves for being Human” you can look it up in the archives. This was the hardest part for me, even harder than forgiving them. I will never trust them again, but in order to heal I had to forgive them (get the bitterness out of my own heart) but I don’t believe that even God demands that we “trust” them again when there is NO sign of any sincereity or repentence in them.

My own healing has been greatly benefited by not only forgiving them but by forgiving myself, to quit hitting myself over the head with my “iron skillet” (that’s kind of a joke around here on the blog, cause if some of my well known friends who are bloggers here do somethign really “stupid” like put themselves down, I threaten to hit them with my skillet!) LOL

Seriously though, forgiving ourselves is difficult. Most or many times at least we have spotted the RED FLAGS that told us they were BAD NEWS but we made excuses for them, or did (in my case) some things I am not proud of, or struck out at them in our pain (me) but I’m human, and humans make mistakes, and make bad choices sometimes, so I can’t expect myself to be perfect, so when I am less than perfect, I must forgive myself and quit being bitter toward myself, and quit “BOINKING” myself over the head with the iron skillet! (((hugs))))

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 2:55pm

That would be Tue. 9 Sept 2008:)~

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 4:06pm

For me It was Realizing that Forgivness does not elimenate accountability or responcability!

When God forgives Us He Forgets ! Sin What sin?

People can Forgive but it’s a whole nother thing to forget!

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 4:10pm

Can someone give me advice about…
I have been obssessed today with writing a sincere letter to the psychologist that this man has completely conned. TEll him the truth and abuse behind the scenes.
Do I do this?
thank you for your time—thanks oxdrover

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 4:20pm

I wish I could give you an “answer” that I knew was the right one, but I don’t have one.

The psychologist might believe you and might not, but the thing is, Akita, that even if they do believe you, they are not going to be able to benefit the psychopath with it, because he will never change.

I can tell you what I would do and why. First, I would not send the letter, and the reason is (the paragraph above) and the second reason is that it might backfire on you. How? I’m not sure, but everything I did to try to help my mother see what was going on (she was part of the abuse but also a victim too) and it backfired on me.

The best thing is NO CONTACT, I think, and that means even “back door” contact–either telling others about them or listening to others tell you abut them. The LESS you can have anything to do with them, the better off you will be, I think–my opinion only. There are those here that will disagree with me, and that’s okay. I am not sure my answer is “right” anyway, but I also know the NEED to warn others about them, and the NEED to tell them off is strong in some of us (all of us?) but I did mine by arguing with them in my head as I drove down the road, screaming at them sometimes, but only I heard it. I also wrote letters and letters and tore them up. It seemed to help some in venting the stuff out. I also blogged on here as well.

Some people gave me some advice on this and other blogs that I wasn’t ready to hear and I “blew it off” but eventually I came to see that they were right, when the time was right for me to accept that advice. You will too. The healing road is bumpy, with stones and pit falls, and broken glass and sometimes we lose our shoes and the going is painful, but eventually, it will smooth out, be less up hill, and your strength will improve. As long as you stay NC you will be gaining strength every day, if you break NC you will go back and “not collect $200 dollars”—sometimes back to square one.

If you are not around them there is no opportunity for NEW injuries, and if you are NC the scabs start to heal. NC tears those scabs off and the wounds bleed again.

So, it may not be right, but I suggest that you do nothing where he is concerned unless he is doing illegal activities and you can prove it, then go to the police. Unless you have evidence though, they may not believe you or just think you are a “woman scorned” and blow you off.

Hope that helps, but it is a “definite maybe” and not really an answer that you can take to the bank, just one with some points to think about. (((hugs))))

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 4:46pm

Akitameg,

Don’t do it. That’s my advice. Pure and simple

If the Psychologist were the kind of person who could see your ex is a Sociopath, s/he would have seen it for him/herself. Since s/he can’t see it yet, telling her/him about the sociopath will only cause him/her to further pathologize you and ignore the evidence s/he already has that your ex is an Sociopath.

The quickest way to cause an educated adult to become convinced that you are unreasonable is for you to accuse someone else of being unreasonable. It’s one of the most hackneyed mantras of our time, this idea that only the unreasonable find others unreasonable. (Say that 5 times fast!)

That’s just reason #1. Reason #2 is a bit more convoluted, but more important. It’s time you realized that for now, “it’s all about what’s between the thumbs!” (YOUR THUMBS, NOT THE S’s!) It’s time for you to take care of yourself, and forget about loserboy. Trying to take care of the shrink and any other dupe involved with the S is a distraction from getting you well and whole again. Don’t do it. Zero contact isn’t just about getting away from the S’s bad behavior. It’s also about taking your time and energies back for your own use, and denying the S “rent free space in your head.”

Of course, I’m not telling you what to do. Go ahead, write the shrink. Maybe it will be cathartic. Maybe it will help someone else. After all, it strikes me as odd that you two were in some kind of joint counseling, but you weren’t married. (Is that true? Did I get that right?) If so, his success in manipulating the therapist might have been a tool that helped him to successfully manipulate you. Maybe if he sets up the same game with a 2nd victim, the Psychologist will get wise.

Just search your own motives carefully before you mail that letter. What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to score points off of the Psychologist? Something like: “See, I was right to mistrust him. He hurt me. You helped him hurt me. You should feel ashamed.” If your motives are something like that, you may want to rethink the strategy. I don’t think that making another normal person (the shrink), feel bad about being fooled by the Sociopath will make you feel better. It’s no substitute for making the Sociopath feel bad, and let’s face it, that’s not happening!

Best of luck with all of this. Personally, I think you need to get really selfish for a while. Focus on your next job, your career, your next home, etc. Make “Me, Myself and I” your mantra for a while! It’s OK to do that when you’re in a really bad place. Friends and family will understand.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 4:59pm

Trinity says:

I just bought this book on amazon and just finished reading “The Sociopath Next Door” does anyone know anymore good books to educate and help yourself heal?

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 7:54pm

Dr. Robert Hare’s book “Without Conscience” is a great one. “sharks in suits” is another one.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 8:38pm

Gemini_Fairy says:

My list:

“Without Conscience”
“Women Who Love Psychopaths”

Haven’t read “Sociopath Next Door” but heard it’s great.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 8:55pm

Hi Gem: What’s the gist of “Women Who Love Sociopaths?” Does the author write that we are needy? Nurturing? I haven’t read it but if you have, share a little. I did read “The Sociopath Next Door.” Wow. That was a good one.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:04pm

IWonder: The book is by Sandra L. Brown and Liane J. Leedom and it talks about women who are the women who have relationships with psychopaths. Here is a bit from the back of the book. “In the book we have: developed a “profile” of women who have attracted psychopaths, identified risk factor’s in women’s lives that contributed to them becoming a p’s victim, isolated specific temperament traits that are in many women who have long term relationships with p’s, described the unique love dynamics, and defined predictable aftermath symptoms which form the common syndrome of inevitable harm.”

Like I said, that’s just from the back of the book but let me tell you I have almost every other page highlighted with post-it notes. Easy read too. I read it cover to cover in one night. And it definitely does not highlight us as needy. They specifically mention that too often we are told that we are co-dependents which is often wrong.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 9:17pm

Oxdrover and Eliz–
I cannot thank you enough for your posts. i will be reading them and rereading them FOR SURE.
I feel support! I can’t thank you enough.
Akita

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:14pm

Elizabeth
conley–
you see– YOU PICKED up on the fact that no– we were NOT MARRIED AND yes– I have figured out that seeing this doc together was the biggest way he manipulated me. I TRUSTED THE DOCTOR. He was seeing him– folks paying for it. I should have known there but he cried “victim” of an alcoholic/abusive family.
Anyway– you see– you picked up on it- and the psychologist did not??
I hope you make more money that he does.

Sunday, 9 November 2008 @ 11:20pm

You’re welcome. I can see you are going through a rough patch right now. I hope things get much better soon.

Gemini Fairy – “specific temperament traits that are in many women…”

It’s only sane to ask, “How do I end up in these silly situations?”

Since becoming more aware through this blog, I’ve been absolutely stunned by how strong my drive to make “everyone happy all the time” is. It really cuts into my productivity and effectiveness. It makes me stressed out, and it often drives my beloved husband absolutely nuts! We have conversations that sound like those cartoon chipmunks, Chip and Dale. “What to you want to do? No, What do YOU want to do? Well, whatever makes you happy…, No, I asked you what YOU want, I want a straight answer!!!” That last bit is him, getting annoyed. It’s just as bad with the kids. We took a short holiday this weekend, and as I watched myself in action, I was amazed at how much I worried about making each member of the family happy, happy, happy 24/7. When I thought one of them wasn’t, I became very anxious. Boy, I’m gonna have to get a grip here. Luckily my husband and children are kind and gentle, but this behavior of mine does explain why exploitive people in various organizations love to toy with my marbles. It’s so darned EZ!

Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 10:55am

Trinity–
Two books that helped me a bit
“High Risk” and
“People of the Lie”

Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 3:39pm

”toy with my marbles” — that’s HYSTERICAL! never heard it before. gonna bite it!

Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 4:56pm

ughh–
I sooo believe and respect what two of you have said about me not writing the psychologist that he has also conned.
For some reason– I have become obsessed with it again tonite.
it is like being raped– worse actually. I want the cops to know who did it. I want the shrink to know that I AM NOT THE CRAZY ONE as the S made a smear campaign the day he was done with me.
And the mask of sanity to come off.
Maybe I will write a letter than I never send.
How am I supposed to live with all of the evil and the evil secrets that ONLY I know.
Thinking of talking with a priest soon.
This is sooooo unfair. if someone stole a tube of toothpaste they could be prosecuted. My life? My health?

Monday, 10 November 2008 @ 6:12pm

robxsykobabe says:

Hi all…

This post is interesting as just today, while teaching at the gym, one of my participants whom I used to run with asked me if I ‘ever ended up dating THAT guy?” I had talked to her about ‘him’ in our VERY VERY VEEERRRRYYYYY early stages of being in a ‘relationship’ as we were on long runs together.

This caught me off guard, 1. because she remembered our talks and 2. because I remember telling her bizarre things he was saying/doing AT THAT TIME that didn’t stop me from persuing the relationship!

I told her he is a sociopath and I asked her ‘wasn’t he doing strange things then (3 years ago) that I was talking to you about?” Her response….”yes, he sounded crazy.”

WHY DIDNT I LISTEN!!! I can vividly remember our runs, one in particular, where I was telling a story that JUST DIDNT SOUND RIGHT and asking her ‘dont you think thats weird?” You see, I know I KNEW something was ‘off’ the day we met…and I continued to KNOW things were ‘off’ as I checked my perceptions agains others. I just dont KNOW why I stayed…and actually feel sorta goofy ‘processing’ everything that’s happened…as if I didn’t already KNOW on some level he was ‘crazy.”

Wednesday, 10 February 2010 @ 10:45pm

one_step_at_a_time says:

robxsykobabe – so why do you think you pursued it?

Wednesday, 10 February 2010 @ 10:54pm

learnthelesson says:

Robx-

This was and at times still is an interesting stage/phase/process along the healing path.

I found myself drawn with curiosity and shellshocked with him sometimes. And sometimes I refused to believe it was the “real him” – surely he was joking – playing games – really not meaning what he says/does… WRONG

Also it shows just how little I believed in my instincts …how little I trusted myself and what little strength and tools I had in handling something uncomfortable for me back then. I stayed thinking nobody could REALLY be that way for real…. false hope kept me there too…that he would change.

Lots of valid and in hindsight valuable information I learned about myself during this stage of the healing process. How to not only notice the red flags = but now act on them. How to practice and always keep in place my self-trust and self-worth and self-respect (self-everything) because when Im in tune with that – I can easily process someone who is not now– not only with themself but toward me.

Also, I think didnt want my fantasy of who I thought he was, what I thought we had to be ruined by reality. It wasnt until I forced myself to accept the reality of his personality, his lack of self-everything, his disrespect and inability to take anything seriously — that I was able to no longer stay — because I finally saw I was with someone who was toxic to me – and most anybody who crossed his path – and chose to not address the uncomfortable oddities about him – until they too get burned by him.

Wednesday, 10 February 2010 @ 11:06pm

Dear R-babe,

We SEE these RED FLAGS, even without any “training” or “education” about psychopaths, they strike our gut somehow and it goes “ZING! danger, danger” but because there are other things about them that are APPEALING, we tell our gut to “shut up” because if we LISTENED, we would break off the relationship.

As the relationship grows, we keep getting these signals but we keep smacking the signals down!

The thing I think I learned is that I have to SET BOUNDARIES and then when ANYONE crosses one of these “deal killers” (no matter WHO they are or how much I have “invested” in them) I have to DISENGAGE MYSELF from these people ENTIRELY.

Now, there are things we have to take NOTE of, and there are DEAL KILLERS. We have to look within ourselves in ANY relationship and weigh the RISK vs BENEFIT of that relationship, just like a BUSINESS venture. What are we getting out of it that is positive and what are we having to “pay” for that positive benefit. Is it a worthwhile investment.

The DEAL KILLERS for relationships that I have set for myself with people within my CIRCLE OF TRUST—whether they are co-workers and I have to “get along” with them to keep my job, etc. is that I don’t let them hook into me or stay hooked into me EMOTIONALLY and TRUST them if they violate ANY ONE of the DEAL BREAKERS.

DEAL BREAKER #1) LIES #2) ANY sign of dishonesty or cheating on a spouse #3) not being generally RELIABLE #4) HISTORY of serious law breaking of any kind (not that people can’t reform after crime, but I don’t want to risk getting emotionally involved with a former felon) #5) a person who is chronically rude or hateful to others #6) DRUG or alcohol problems

Those are just MY “deal breakers” and they are pretty stringent as far as I am concerned. Anyone who lies and steals, is a chronic cheat on their spouse (I realize that sometimes even a good person can do this ONCE) etc. are not the kind of person I want to be closely involved with.

I now LISTEN to my gut and when I spot a RED FLAG, I STOP, LOOK and LISTEN and then I ACT on it. I distance myself from this person at least emotionally.

I realize we have to live in a world where there are people around us, living next door, in the market, at work, etc. that we do not want to become involved with any more than we have to be, and we can’t go live on a desert Island to get away from them, but we don’t have to let them into our CIRCLE of TRUST and embrace them, OR give them a chance to wound us.

LISTEN TO YOURSELF. Predators give off signals most of the time, so when we get that “gut feeling”–STOP, LOOK AND LISTEN and then ACT to keep yourself safe.

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 12:10am

ErinBrock says:

“when I spot a RED FLAG, I STOP, LOOK and LISTEN and then I ACT ”

Now I react like I do when I’m on fire….
I STOP….DROP…..and ROLL…..right on outa there!

Not willing to be ‘burned’ again!!!

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 1:46am

I guess I prided myself on not wanting to ‘judge’ him and in doing so, I opened the door. Things that he exposed to me, which were the ‘red flags’ I tried accepting as ‘what he did’ not as ‘who he is’. I guess my mantra was ‘he hasn’t been (mean, rude, a cheater, lieing, etc) to me, so who am I to judge?”

The mysteriousness about him intrigued me, although at times, it felt downright disrespectful. I would ask and ask and ask for him to SHARE with me WHO HE WAS as, anyone who knows me (and maybe some of you have picked up on this as well) knows that Ive got nothing to hide and am an open person. I can see now that him avoiding sharing himself in that way with me was a way to keep me intrigued and mostly off balance. If I knew about what he ‘did’ either in other relationships or just in general life, I HOPEFULLY would have ran as fast as I could away…

This brings up another memory…One time I emailed his mom because I was so frustrated with hearing how ‘bad’ he has been and ‘was’ that I wanted to know what was sooooo ‘bad’ that I didnt know about. His moms response (because he did and STILL DOES live at home….at 36) was this…”I would caution you over knowing too much. I dont necessarily think knowing everything would help your relationship as much of him was a nightmare.”

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT! Well, Ill tell you, its another red flag! She knew the level of destruction he is capable of causing…and now that Im thinking about it…I seem to remember other emails she and I had, particularly when he did something really stupid where she would ALWAYS end her responses to me with ” I dont blame you if you want out….” or “I understand if this is too much for you to handle…”

Ok…the signs were all there and I didnt take heed…however-I WILL NOT beat myself up anymore for HIS idiocy and manipulations…

I got rid of his things today…and smiled!

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 10:01am

robxsykobabe –

one of the ways i was set up was that the character himself, and the other sock puppets talked about how damaged he was. he was also so lovely. so whenever he went on about how damaged he was, i went, no, no, no, you are so lovely.

it meant i accepted a spirally worsening scenario as he got sicker and sicker (not so much directed AT me, but general conditions which meant i worked harder and harder and got less and less).

duped duped duped.

and about what your spath ex’s mom said – not a red flag, but a legion of red flag carriers coming right at you.

and the bag is gone! good for you!

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 10:20am

One Step:

I agree…a legion of red flag carriers coming at me, although none of them could divulge any information. It was like I had to ‘find it out’ on my own, but they were all there with their sirens blaring…

I also understand though that I was possibly manipulated by his mom as well. She would tell me over and over and over again how PROUD she was over the MAN he had become…how much PROGRESS he had made…how he is that WONDERFUL PERSON she always knew he could be…

And then she would write me those emails saying ‘I dont blame you if you left…”

What a whirlwind! I said to him after we broke up “you know, it was like I watched you spiral further and further down as an outside observer”…I was right!

Thanks One Step

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 10:26am

This IS his pathology…I got to see it first hand! I was a witness to who he is and what he does…just like my family and friends are witnesses to who I am and what I do…but for good…

He’s such an ass!

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 10:27am

robxsykobabe – i’ll call you ‘ass’ and raise you a ‘creep’.

Thursday, 11 February 2010 @ 10:34am

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BOOK REVIEW: How to Spot a Dangerous Man

106 Comments to “BOOK REVIEW: How to Spot a Dangerous Man”

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