Comments on: Optical illusions: autostereograms and sociopaths http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:17:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: skylar http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108314 skylar Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:34:02 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108314 Neveragain, I loved those points too. It's very interesting that you have observed this happening in animal abuse rescuers. Rene Girard describes something like this in the scapegoat mechanism. He describes 2 kids fighting over a toy and the violence escalates, then a 3rd kid who happens to be a small weakling walks by and wants to play. The first 2 kids will stop fighting and both start calling the 3rd kid names and run him off. Suddenly there is peace. He describes this transfer as being the origin of language because humans are able to substitute one victim for another. We can use one thing to symbolize another and that is basically what language is. Language is a complex system of sounds or signals that symbolize other things, people or ideas. so interesting... Neveragain,
I loved those points too. It’s very interesting that you have observed this happening in animal abuse rescuers.

Rene Girard describes something like this in the scapegoat mechanism. He describes 2 kids fighting over a toy and the violence escalates, then a 3rd kid who happens to be a small weakling walks by and wants to play. The first 2 kids will stop fighting and both start calling the 3rd kid names and run him off. Suddenly there is peace.

He describes this transfer as being the origin of language because humans are able to substitute one victim for another. We can use one thing to symbolize another and that is basically what language is. Language is a complex system of sounds or signals that symbolize other things, people or ideas.

so interesting…

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]]> By: Ox Drover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108297 Ox Drover Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:03:25 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108297 Dear Neveragain, You bring up some very VALID POINTS! Thank you for discussing this, and I think many times you are right. I had a therapist tell me once that "the only valid (adult human) rescue is to drag an unconscious person out of a burning house." That's a pretty harsh, but you know, the more I live and learn, the more I think she is right. Your analogy of the family dogs is a good one. Thanks. Lots of food for thought here. Dear Neveragain,

You bring up some very VALID POINTS! Thank you for discussing this, and I think many times you are right. I had a therapist tell me once that “the only valid (adult human) rescue is to drag an unconscious person out of a burning house.” That’s a pretty harsh, but you know, the more I live and learn, the more I think she is right.

Your analogy of the family dogs is a good one. Thanks. Lots of food for thought here.

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]]> By: neveragain http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108274 neveragain Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:44:17 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108274 I just want to comment on the original post. If you have a betrayal bond that develops in the mirage, it is very difficult to get out of the mirage. You may understand it all intellectually, but then all of sudden you are overwhelmed with a great longing to see the creep again. In the book BETRAYAL BOND, the author says that is a normal stage to go through and refers to those feelings as cravings. He goes on to discuss the things that support those cravings, the emotional reactivity, such as high arousal. I wish he had spent more time on how to combat all that, he provides some exercises, but not much on a few of the things. As far as the shame, my therapist stressed, put the shame where it belongs....on him. Give him all the shame she told me. Do we have responsibility? Yes, we have the ability to respond. That is responsibility. And next time, we'll know better how to respond. I see the same dynamic in animal rescue work, responding to a cruelty case. The rescuers will inevitably turn on each other....you didn't give the right antibiotic, so that animal died. You didn't get the animals out of there soon enough...etc. Meanwhile the abuser sits in the background, gathering sympathy for how overwhelmed he was, he tried his best etc. BS!!! He caused the whole horrific situation!!!!!!!!! But it is amazing how little anger gets directed to him....even if cruelty charges are filed. Sometimes yes, the rescuers do get angry at the abuser, but since they can't reach the real target, they turn on each other, like family dogs barking at a strange dog outside the fence, who suddenly stop barking at the strange dog, and turn on each other. Transfered aggression, because they can't get to the real target. And we transfer our aggression from the real target (who we can't get to no matter what we do, except through NC and let's face it, that never feels that satisfying), inward towards ourselves. I just want to comment on the original post. If you have a betrayal bond that develops in the mirage, it is very difficult to get out of the mirage. You may understand it all intellectually, but then all of sudden you are overwhelmed with a great longing to see the creep again. In the book BETRAYAL BOND, the author says that is a normal stage to go through and refers to those feelings as cravings. He goes on to discuss the things that support those cravings, the emotional reactivity, such as high arousal. I wish he had spent more time on how to combat all that, he provides some exercises, but not much on a few of the things.

As far as the shame, my therapist stressed, put the shame where it belongs….on him. Give him all the shame she told me.

Do we have responsibility? Yes, we have the ability to respond. That is responsibility. And next time, we’ll know better how to respond.

I see the same dynamic in animal rescue work, responding to a cruelty case. The rescuers will inevitably turn on each other….you didn’t give the right antibiotic, so that animal died. You didn’t get the animals out of there soon enough…etc. Meanwhile the abuser sits in the background, gathering sympathy for how overwhelmed he was, he tried his best etc. BS!!! He caused the whole horrific situation!!!!!!!!! But it is amazing how little anger gets directed to him….even if cruelty charges are filed. Sometimes yes, the rescuers do get angry at the abuser, but since they can’t reach the real target, they turn on each other, like family dogs barking at a strange dog outside the fence, who suddenly stop barking at the strange dog, and turn on each other. Transfered aggression, because they can’t get to the real target.

And we transfer our aggression from the real target (who we can’t get to no matter what we do, except through NC and let’s face it, that never feels that satisfying), inward towards ourselves.

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]]> By: geminigirl http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108260 geminigirl Sat, 26 Feb 2011 11:56:30 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108260 One-Joy, darling you are absolutely right, I was a prig, and I couldnt find my anger, and then WOOOSH!! Out it all came!! SPLATTT!! And you were so forgiving of me being so holier than thou, and you GOT it that at the time it reminded me of spath daughter cussing at me as a teenager. And now I say the F word more than most, and no-one ticks me off or calls me a Hypocrite!Least of all you my sweet sister! I love you. You So get where I am now, and you are so understanding.Yea my wicked humour is coming out now as Im healing! Witty so GREAT to hear you back again with us! Must crash now, just wanted to say I love all you guys. Love, Mama gemXX One-Joy, darling you are absolutely right, I was a prig, and I couldnt find my anger, and then WOOOSH!! Out it all came!! SPLATTT!!
And you were so forgiving of me being so holier than thou, and you GOT it that at the time it reminded me of spath daughter cussing at me as a teenager.
And now I say the F word more than most, and no-one ticks me off or calls me a Hypocrite!Least of all you my sweet sister! I love you.
You So get where I am now, and you are so understanding.Yea my wicked humour is coming out now as Im healing!
Witty so GREAT to hear you back again with us! Must crash now, just wanted to say I love all you guys.
Love,
Mama gemXX

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]]> By: skylar http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108246 skylar Sat, 26 Feb 2011 06:55:44 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108246 I actually had a dream that I met Oxy. She was very young in my dream, around 30 or 35. It was several weeks ago. funny how the brain works. In the dream we were working in the same office building and when I went into her office, there she was and I was so happy to meet her. LOL. Isn't that funny, Oxy? I don't know why I would dream of you, I think at that time, when I was having a melt down over my parents, I just kept thinking of you, and wishing you would save me. Like, you would have all the answers. That's how it felt in the dream, I felt like once I got to meet you, when you opened the door to your office, everything would be OK. but we know that isn't reality. I have to deal with my parental issues just like you did with yours. it sucks so bad that I can't just get it over with. Oh well, we can dream... right? I actually had a dream that I met Oxy. She was very young in my dream, around 30 or 35.

It was several weeks ago. funny how the brain works.
In the dream we were working in the same office building and when I went into her office, there she was and I was so happy to meet her. LOL.

Isn’t that funny, Oxy? I don’t know why I would dream of you, I think at that time, when I was having a melt down over my parents, I just kept thinking of you, and wishing you would save me. Like, you would have all the answers. That’s how it felt in the dream, I felt like once I got to meet you, when you opened the door to your office, everything would be OK. but we know that isn’t reality. I have to deal with my parental issues just like you did with yours. it sucks so bad that I can’t just get it over with.

Oh well, we can dream… right?

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]]> By: DancingWarrior http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108230 DancingWarrior Sat, 26 Feb 2011 05:45:01 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108230 Ox are you around? Gosh I'm feeling so down from my dating flop. Ox are you around?

Gosh I’m feeling so down from my dating flop.

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]]> By: Stargazer http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108204 Stargazer Sat, 26 Feb 2011 04:10:26 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108204 I picture Oxy like a younger version of the granny in Beverly Hillbillies, with the same kind of spunk. ha ha I'm probably waaay off base. BTW, if anyone wants to email with me (LL, Sky, One, Oxy, etc.), it would be fun to exchange pics. I know I can remember people's lives and stories when I can put a face to the name. I picture Oxy like a younger version of the granny in Beverly Hillbillies, with the same kind of spunk. ha ha I’m probably waaay off base.

BTW, if anyone wants to email with me (LL, Sky, One, Oxy, etc.), it would be fun to exchange pics. I know I can remember people’s lives and stories when I can put a face to the name.

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]]> By: lesson learned http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108195 lesson learned Sat, 26 Feb 2011 03:52:29 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108195 Star. Yea Ox, ME TOO!!! I would love to see all your faces to go with your beautiful names! BLESSINGS!!! LL Star.

Yea Ox, ME TOO!!! I would love to see all your faces to go with your beautiful names!

BLESSINGS!!!

LL

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]]> By: Stargazer http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108192 Stargazer Sat, 26 Feb 2011 03:49:13 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108192 Oh, Oxy, I'd kill to see what you look like! I have a picture of you in my mind, but your hair is long. Okay, I wouldn't actually kill anything, but I'd still like to see a pic. Oh, Oxy, I’d kill to see what you look like! I have a picture of you in my mind, but your hair is long. Okay, I wouldn’t actually kill anything, but I’d still like to see a pic.

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]]> By: Stargazer http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/comment-page-2/#comment-108191 Stargazer Sat, 26 Feb 2011 03:46:11 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/20/optical-illusions-autostereograms-and-sociopaths/#comment-108191 Hey, One, I'm so glad I can be counted as a member of your healing family because you certainly have touched my heart too, even though I have never met you and never heard your voice. Sometimes we need others to hold us up when we just cannot do it for ourselves. When I am in my deepest well of pain, I know my real life friends don't have any clue what I have been through and what I go through. Hey, One, I’m so glad I can be counted as a member of your healing family because you certainly have touched my heart too, even though I have never met you and never heard your voice. Sometimes we need others to hold us up when we just cannot do it for ourselves. When I am in my deepest well of pain, I know my real life friends don’t have any clue what I have been through and what I go through.

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