Comments on: ASK DR. LEEDOM: What is the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath? http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:16:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55186 OxDrover Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:56:12 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55186 You are right, donna, once in a while they DO listen, but so many times (most?) you are right, the P has primed them so that they think you are crazy and "the woman scorned" so that it actually "proves" to them that he was truthful because you come off looking like you are what he said you were. I myself have NOT listened to warnings about people who turned out to be cons or Ps (or both) in business relationships etc. I DO LISTEN NOW though, for what that's worth! LOL And again, it depends on what the potential for violence is, and so on, if the guy was a potential murderer, yep I'd probably try to warn the next victim, but without a lot of expectation for success. You are right, donna, once in a while they DO listen, but so many times (most?) you are right, the P has primed them so that they think you are crazy and “the woman scorned” so that it actually “proves” to them that he was truthful because you come off looking like you are what he said you were.

I myself have NOT listened to warnings about people who turned out to be cons or Ps (or both) in business relationships etc. I DO LISTEN NOW though, for what that’s worth! LOL

And again, it depends on what the potential for violence is, and so on, if the guy was a potential murderer, yep I’d probably try to warn the next victim, but without a lot of expectation for success.

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]]> By: style1 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55183 style1 Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:07:16 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55183 and yes, my father has some narcissist traits.. and he was once an alcoholic and he wasn't the perfect father or husband to my mother.. but he did what he said, and took good care of his family. And this is what I can't bring to me.. I bring men that are mostly talk.. not all bad, but use me on some level so that I am left in lack without love, material things or whatever it was that they promised in the beginning. They take from me and they blame me.. but one husband because I kicked him out, sobbered up and thanked me and we are friends. But I marry and date the charismatic cons.. they see something in me that they like and come after me.. And they try to use me and my family and I always make them appear better than they are.. this last one was the most down and out, but elegant appearing one that I have ever been with...and he came across like a giver.. while he was getting exactly what he needed and I felt in lack the whole time.. even as he told me constantly that he loved me .. I didn't feel love from him.. I tend to trust what people say.. because when I say something I am telling the truth..I have come to see that most use words to manipulate.. I am rambling here.. BUt I have come to realize that the guard should be up at all times until you see by actions who the person actually is and this is over time that you trust.. And never move fast EVER! And if someone tries to get you to move fast.. slow it down and if they leave .. they would've anyway.. men use the 'love' word, the compliments, the marriage promise to hook a woman in.. They know what does it.. and it takes nothing to act the part.. contrive the part.. that is one thing I was able to see so clear from reading these posts. How my last guy was so contrived.. the flowers every Friday.. the robotic way that he romanced me..that is why it felt so false, it was false. It was an act. A well-rehearsed act. Men also, talke about money, success and business because a woman wants to be with a man that can support her... they know what to do and say... it is up to the woman to see past what he says... and yes, my father has some narcissist traits.. and he was once an alcoholic and he wasn’t the perfect father or husband to my mother.. but he did what he said, and took good care of his family. And this is what I can’t bring to me.. I bring men that are mostly talk.. not all bad, but use me on some level so that I am left in lack without love, material things or whatever it was that they promised in the beginning. They take from me and they blame me.. but one husband because I kicked him out, sobbered up and thanked me and we are friends.
But I marry and date the charismatic cons.. they see something in me that they like and come after me.. And they try to use me and my family and I always make them appear better than they are.. this last one was the most down and out, but elegant appearing one that I have ever been with…and he came across like a giver.. while he was getting exactly what he needed and I felt in lack the whole time.. even as he told me constantly that he loved me .. I didn’t feel love from him..
I tend to trust what people say.. because when I say something I am telling the truth..I have come to see that most use words to manipulate.. I am rambling here..
BUt I have come to realize that the guard should be up at all times until you see by actions who the person actually is and this is over time that you trust..
And never move fast EVER! And if someone tries to get you to move fast.. slow it down and if they leave .. they would’ve anyway..
men use the ‘love’ word, the compliments, the marriage promise to hook a woman in.. They know what does it.. and it takes nothing to act the part.. contrive the part.. that is one thing I was able to see so clear from reading these posts. How my last guy was so contrived.. the flowers every Friday.. the robotic way that he romanced me..that is why it felt so false, it was false. It was an act. A well-rehearsed act. Men also, talke about money, success and business because a woman wants to be with a man that can support her… they know what to do and say… it is up to the woman to see past what he says…

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]]> By: style1 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55180 style1 Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:32:07 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55180 How to separate healthy self-esteem and healthy optimism from psyhcosis? (And I apologoze for my typos is some of my posts.. I type so fast and am not checking before post...stupid...) That is what 'got' me with mine.. My Dad said that he was foing to do things and he did them.. really great things.. And I think that his example has made me susceptible to men that make statements of things that they plan to accomplish. But the men don't .. they are cons.. so how to distinguish.. many have ideas, plans that they work on and so come to fruition.. and the guy I was with, it had elements of possibility and he worked really hard.. and I was the only women in his life.. he was not a cheater.. he was just arrogant, delusional, controlling, sickening sweet at times, critical, needy and more... but he had some things in his past they made his business deals appear possible.. excpet that he was almost totally broke.. but again, people can be broke and re emerge in success.. How can you really tell? How to separate healthy self-esteem and healthy optimism from psyhcosis? (And I apologoze for my typos is some of my posts.. I type so fast and am not checking before post…stupid…)

That is what ‘got’ me with mine.. My Dad said that he was foing to do things and he did them.. really great things.. And I think that his example has made me susceptible to men that make statements of things that they plan to accomplish. But the men don’t .. they are cons.. so how to distinguish.. many have ideas, plans that they work on and so come to fruition..
and the guy I was with, it had elements of possibility and he worked really hard.. and I was the only women in his life.. he was not a cheater.. he was just arrogant, delusional, controlling, sickening sweet at times, critical, needy and more…
but he had some things in his past they made his business deals appear possible.. excpet that he was almost totally broke.. but again, people can be broke and re emerge in success.. How can you really tell?

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]]> By: kim frederick http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55174 kim frederick Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:56:49 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55174 My understanding is this: All sociopaths are also narcissists, but not all narcissists are sociopaths. In general, I think, the N is more about image and creating a false self. Hence, their enormous ego' and lies about how wonderful they are. They brag, and love the spot light. Everything is always, me, me, me. They're envious to the core. Sociopaths are more manipulative and conniving. They care less what you think of them, they don't care nearly as much about their image. I say this because they don't seem to feel much shame if they're caught in lies. They think of others as targets or marks, and use people mercilessly. I don't think the narcissist thinks about other people much, at all except as fans, or as an audence for his greatness. Just my observations. But either way, being in a relationship with either is like being bled dry. So it doesn't make much difference. They both suck. My understanding is this: All sociopaths are also narcissists, but not all narcissists are sociopaths.
In general, I think, the N is more about image and creating a false self. Hence, their enormous ego’ and lies about how wonderful they are. They brag, and love the spot light. Everything is always, me, me, me. They’re envious to the core.
Sociopaths are more manipulative and conniving. They care less what you think of them, they don’t care nearly as much about their image. I say this because they don’t seem to feel much shame if they’re caught in lies. They think of others as targets or marks, and use people mercilessly. I don’t think the narcissist thinks about other people much, at all except as fans, or as an audence for his greatness. Just my observations. But either way, being in a relationship with either is like being bled dry. So it doesn’t make much difference. They both suck.

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]]> By: style1 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55170 style1 Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:51:49 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55170 Perhaps, there is a bleed through on the personality types and disorders.. is just isn't that clear cut..in some ways they can be put into categories but not all.. Mine was had delusions of grandeur .. they have dead souls are want to kill those around them.. He always talked about the light in my eyes... all the time... but he dimmed my light... he wanted to take my soul.. but I was too strong.. Be strong and take care of yourself... Perhaps, there is a bleed through on the personality types and disorders.. is just isn’t that clear cut..in some ways they can be put into categories but not all..
Mine was had delusions of grandeur .. they have dead souls are want to kill those around them..

He always talked about the light in my eyes… all the time…

but he dimmed my light… he wanted to take my soul.. but I was too strong..
Be strong and take care of yourself…

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]]> By: Donna Andersen http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55165 Donna Andersen Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:58:01 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55165 MeToo, Hello and welcome to Lovefraud. We have discussed the issue of warning the next victim. It is difficult, because, as OxDrover said, while the target is under the "magic spell," they often don't believe the words of the ex. The guy, I'm sure, it telling the woman some version of you are crazy, bitter, paranoid, vindictive, etc etc, to set her up not to believe you. However, I have heard of cases in which the next target listened to the warning and got out. I have also heard of cases in which the target remembered the warning when she started seeing bad behavior from the guy. So sometimes it does work - although you never know. I like to suggest that you at least try to warn, if you can do it safely. If the new target doesn't listen, that's on her. At least you tried. Here's an article we posted on this issue. You might want to read it and the discussion that follows. http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/12/11/should-i-warn-the-sociopaths-next-victim/ MeToo,

Hello and welcome to Lovefraud. We have discussed the issue of warning the next victim. It is difficult, because, as OxDrover said, while the target is under the “magic spell,” they often don’t believe the words of the ex. The guy, I’m sure, it telling the woman some version of you are crazy, bitter, paranoid, vindictive, etc etc, to set her up not to believe you.

However, I have heard of cases in which the next target listened to the warning and got out. I have also heard of cases in which the target remembered the warning when she started seeing bad behavior from the guy. So sometimes it does work – although you never know.

I like to suggest that you at least try to warn, if you can do it safely. If the new target doesn’t listen, that’s on her. At least you tried.

Here’s an article we posted on this issue. You might want to read it and the discussion that follows.

http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.....xt-victim/

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]]> By: OxDrover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55154 OxDrover Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:44:37 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55154 Dear MeToo, Welcome to Love Fraud. The only thing I can tell you is that she will NOT believe you. He has her in the "love bomb" stage of the relationship so that you could have a video of him raping Mother Teresa and it would not make her believe it. She will have to learn on her own just as you did. Oh, BTW, saying he his "great" 70% of the time is like saying a man is a "great guy when he isn't raping and murdering young boys" (John Wayne Gacy) Nah, they are NEVER "nice" except when it suits their purposes, they are EVIL 100% of the time, they just cover it up part of the time. Glad you are here, this is a great place for learning both about them, and about ourselves. Again, welcome! God bless. Dear MeToo,

Welcome to Love Fraud.

The only thing I can tell you is that she will NOT believe you. He has her in the “love bomb” stage of the relationship so that you could have a video of him raping Mother Teresa and it would not make her believe it.

She will have to learn on her own just as you did.

Oh, BTW, saying he his “great” 70% of the time is like saying a man is a “great guy when he isn’t raping and murdering young boys” (John Wayne Gacy) Nah, they are NEVER “nice” except when it suits their purposes, they are EVIL 100% of the time, they just cover it up part of the time.

Glad you are here, this is a great place for learning both about them, and about ourselves. Again, welcome! God bless.

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]]> By: MeToo http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-55137 MeToo Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:50:39 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-55137 While I have no idea if there is a difference I know the devastation of constant infidelity causes. I was married to my husband for 7 years. I was thrilled he had "chosen" me and so deeply in love. Looking back on it I suppose the warning signs were there and I must have chosen not to see them. He is always the life of the party, he is liked by many and he is a cheat and a liar. We were seperated 6 times before finally being divorced. It has taken me 3 years to finally put it all in perspective and let it go. 70% of this man is fun and its great to be with him, its the other 30% however that is truely evil.......... I know of 11 women he was with during our marriage and that is probably the tip of the iceberg. We have a son together and remain in constant contact because of this. I have developed a friendship with him that allows me to be free from the burden of his evil side. Now however there is a problem. He has "fallen in love" yet again with his "dream" blond, wealthy woman who has just divorced her husband. She seems nice and in other circumstances someone I would like to know. They have been trying to hide their relationship (not well enough I guess) and are now planning on marriage. She is deeply in love with him just as I was all those years ago. She believes he is faithful to her - he is absolutely not! I have released myself from any burden of responsibility for this man when it comes to his relaionships and I am not his keeper. However it is hard to stand by and know yet another woman is going to be devastated and suffer such immense pain. How do I come to terms with that? While I have no idea if there is a difference I know the devastation of constant infidelity causes. I was married to my husband for 7 years. I was thrilled he had “chosen” me and so deeply in love. Looking back on it I suppose the warning signs were there and I must have chosen not to see them. He is always the life of the party, he is liked by many and he is a cheat and a liar. We were seperated 6 times before finally being divorced. It has taken me 3 years to finally put it all in perspective and let it go. 70% of this man is fun and its great to be with him, its the other 30% however that is truely evil………. I know of 11 women he was with during our marriage and that is probably the tip of the iceberg. We have a son together and remain in constant contact because of this. I have developed a friendship with him that allows me to be free from the burden of his evil side. Now however there is a problem. He has “fallen in love” yet again with his “dream” blond, wealthy woman who has just divorced her husband. She seems nice and in other circumstances someone I would like to know. They have been trying to hide their relationship (not well enough I guess) and are now planning on marriage. She is deeply in love with him just as I was all those years ago. She believes he is faithful to her – he is absolutely not! I have released myself from any burden of responsibility for this man when it comes to his relaionships and I am not his keeper. However it is hard to stand by and know yet another woman is going to be devastated and suffer such immense pain. How do I come to terms with that?

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]]> By: helpless mom http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-1147 helpless mom Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:21:47 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-1147 Please this is urgent. I feel so helpless. My daughter has been estranged from my family for 12 years. My son has just recently managed to convince her to come home. She did and what a nightmare. She has 4 children and has lived in hell. We were so happy to have them. They were enrolled in a new school, afterschool programs and park sports doing great without HIM. He promised her he would support her choice and things would work out with the kids. This madmad stole the kids filed a Restraining order and lied about her abusing the kids and him. He went to Legal Aid (domestic Violence) and got an attorney. We hired a paralegal. The judge must have listened a little. he did remove the restraining order and gave them both joint custody while they wait for an evaluation. In the meantime the children are being abused, made to lie just like him. What can be done in a situation like this. I feel crazy. Please this is urgent. I feel so helpless. My daughter has been estranged from my family for 12 years. My son has just recently managed to convince her to come home. She did and what a nightmare. She has 4 children and has lived in hell. We were so happy to have them. They were enrolled in a new school, afterschool programs and park sports doing great without HIM. He promised her he would support her choice and things would work out with the kids. This madmad stole the kids filed a Restraining order and lied about her abusing the kids and him. He went to Legal Aid (domestic Violence) and got an attorney. We hired a paralegal. The judge must have listened a little. he did remove the restraining order and gave them both joint custody while they wait for an evaluation. In the meantime the children are being abused, made to lie just like him. What can be done in a situation like this. I feel crazy.

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]]> By: nowIgetitImTW http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/comment-page-1/#comment-986 nowIgetitImTW Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:04:14 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/05/11/ask-dr-leedom-what-is-the-difference-between-a-narcissist-and-a-sociopath/#comment-986 All, our stories contain so many similar if not identical details that it's clear the NPD diagnosis in DSM 1V is right on. A couple of things to share that I found helpful since the catastrophic entry and exit of my N is the discovery of something called "Narcissists Victims Syndrome", found in a nursing journal of health dated 2004. She gives ER and other doctors the symptoms to look for of NPD victims, and the litany needn't be laid out here, we're all living examples. What's helpful though is realizing the VICTIMS are finally getting some attention, rather than NPD's who've been explored and written about in possibly billions of words since the DSM first spotted and categorized them. The second thing is that in 2004 when "Our" couples therapist delivered her diagnosis of my NPD to me, she went into detail about how I was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder--and I see that very clearly manifest in the blogs here, over and again. Even if the N has been gone for 5 years, nightmares persist, people suddenly feel the need to blog again about their trauma. It's very disturbing, and it probably helps to acknowledge that it IS PTSD that drives us back to this site for insights and a sense of clarity and actually, community with other sufferers. The last thought (for the mo) on this: I haven't seen a lot of talk about the correlation between the NPD and a co-morbid substance addiction, but the DSM 1V does clearly link the 2: 50-75% of NPD's have a co-morbid addiction diagnosis...BUT, not the reverse for diagnosed addicts, i.e. 75% of addicts are NOT NPD. It's been amazing to find others insights here while realizing and reliving but also getting strength from what's gone on in others' lives. I had a paralegal in my attny's office say to me the other day in a quiet flat tone: "Look: you've been TORTURED for years by this gorgeous, perfect Monster (who looks like the prez of the Rotary club, better yet John Edwards, and could no doubt give Edwards a run for his money)....So what if he's moved next door with his new 30 year old girlfriend in the same golf course community you've lived in for years. That which does not kill you strengthens you..." Of course, she's right and I am moving on, and continue to, but the healing process...sometimes tough. What amazes me most is that people, outsiders, just don't GET IT. They think that if you're still processing/recovering/healing after a 5 year relationship with one of these beasts, it's somehow because you still LOVE this Godforsaken (yes) creature. How would that even be possible? Quite the contrary: It's the utter devastation that takes time to process and recover from. But I'm a realist: I still have nightmares about him after 7 months, and that may go on, now and then, for a long time....Every day brings the promise of being restored to complete sanity....Peace....TW All, our stories contain so many similar if not identical details that it’s clear the NPD diagnosis in DSM 1V is right on. A couple of things to share that I found helpful since the catastrophic entry and exit of my N is the discovery of something called “Narcissists Victims Syndrome”, found in a nursing journal of health dated 2004. She gives ER and other doctors the symptoms to look for of NPD victims, and the litany needn’t be laid out here, we’re all living examples. What’s helpful though is realizing the VICTIMS are finally getting some attention, rather than NPD’s who’ve been explored and written about in possibly billions of words since the DSM first spotted and categorized them.

The second thing is that in 2004 when “Our” couples therapist delivered her diagnosis of my NPD to me, she went into detail about how I was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder–and I see that very clearly manifest in the blogs here, over and again. Even if the N has been gone for 5 years, nightmares persist, people suddenly feel the need to blog again about their trauma. It’s very disturbing, and it probably helps to acknowledge that it IS PTSD that drives us back to this site for insights and a sense of clarity and actually, community with other sufferers.

The last thought (for the mo) on this: I haven’t seen a lot of talk about the correlation between the NPD and a co-morbid substance addiction, but the DSM 1V does clearly link the 2: 50-75% of NPD’s have a co-morbid addiction diagnosis…BUT, not the reverse for diagnosed addicts, i.e. 75% of addicts are NOT NPD. It’s been amazing to find others insights here while realizing and reliving but also getting strength from what’s gone on in others’ lives. I had a paralegal in my attny’s office say to me the other day in a quiet flat tone: “Look: you’ve been TORTURED for years by this gorgeous, perfect Monster (who looks like the prez of the Rotary club, better yet John Edwards, and could no doubt give Edwards a run for his money)….So what if he’s moved next door with his new 30 year old girlfriend in the same golf course community you’ve lived in for years. That which does not kill you strengthens you…” Of course, she’s right and I am moving on, and continue to, but the healing process…sometimes tough. What amazes me most is that people, outsiders, just don’t GET IT. They think that if you’re still processing/recovering/healing after a 5 year relationship with one of these beasts, it’s somehow because you still LOVE this Godforsaken (yes) creature. How would that even be possible? Quite the contrary: It’s the utter devastation that takes time to process and recover from. But I’m a realist: I still have nightmares about him after 7 months, and that may go on, now and then, for a long time….Every day brings the promise of being restored to complete sanity….Peace….TW

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