NO contact gives us time to heal wihtout being hit by new arrows every day. Without having to hear their lies and psychological-warfare.

It’s like they are beseiging us and trying to get us to give up. We just have to hunker down most of the time unless what they are doing is illegal and then we go to the court and file for a RESTRAINING ORDER, and we enforce it.l

Change phone number, block e mail, block on FB and tw2itter, tell our real friends that they are NOT TO SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT YOUR, AT ALL. iF his FRIENDS COME TO YOU AND WANT TO TALK–GIVE THEM THE SILENT TREATMENT—walk away.

This is the ONLY “closure” you will get from him if he is like most creeps.

BE SAFE above all else. He will get worse for a while, making more efforts to contact you but you cannot give him ANY contact because that is what is called “intermittent reinforcement” which will make him continue on for a much longer time. Right now any NOTICE from you even a fight is what he wants.

Being shut out by you is a big ego injury and so he will upo the stakes and efforts for a while. If he is the time that might shhow up at your work and make a scene, keep calm, and call the police. Or security. Change locks on your house and you might invest in a small hideable nanny cam set up so if he does break into your car or home you have proof.

BE cool calm and collected around him, do NOT react—go home and cuss and scream and cry but hold it together in any court hearings. The day I spoke to the judge at the bail hearing for the Trojan Horse Psychopath and my DIL who had tried to kill my son, I was shaking inside so bad I was VIBRATING but my son said that I did well when I talked to the judge and he raised the bail to $150,000 (it would have been like $3500 if I hadn’t spoken) so they didn’t bond out hee hee)

I should have won the academe award for BEST ACTRESS that year, because I was SCARED, Terrified, and I apparently pulled it off like a champ—we’ve had to learn to ACT around the Ps to keep from pithing them off, so we are good actors, and sometimes we need to use that for OUR benefit!

It is amazing what talents we have that we don’t even know we have.

Kind of like the woman who had been a stay-at-home-mom and needed a job and she didn’t think she had any job “skills:”

Her friend said, “Of course you do, you are a DOMESTIC ENGINEER, you are a nutrition specialist for children, you are an economyist living on a budget and providing for a family. You aqre a car mechanic in fixing the old heap and keeping it running. You are a nurse, qualified to take care of the sickest children. You are a preschool teacher and have taught your class well, you are a sports coach…..and so on and on….naming all the things that a stay-at-home-mom is capable of and required to do on a daily basis.

We have other skills to that we learned by living with an interacting with the psychopaths that also increase our ability to be strong and to accomplish many things. It is that strength that has kept us alive.

I think you have got strength and determination that he knows nothing about!!!! You GO GF!!!!! ((((hugs)))))

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That is the hardest part….I still miss who I thought he was….I miss that terribly. I miss the fact that I thought I had an amazing love with this man….I the image and now all i see is the monster. But it still hurts like crazy!!!

Ox…why didn’t I have you around when I was with him. He fails all but number 4. I love the reminder that it is ok to EXPECT things of people. I can EXPECT honesty without being unreasonable!!!!

So here is my confession…please dont yell at me. I broke the NC rule. I was so pissed. A new lie was revealed to me and I was just too pissy to let him get away with it. So I confronted him (email). Why I still feel the need for him to acknowledge all the lies, cheats, and manipulation???

Are these typical responses for a spath….

*You’re obsessing and will try an villanize me in any and every way you possibly can to yourself and anyone who will listen.

* There was a period of time where I thought that I could be friends with her and still date you, when I thought we could work through whatever issues and be together. That changed when I decided that it was more inportant to me to see her again.*

Then he said this when I confronted him on another inconsistency

**I didn’t know which day you were talking about, not that it really matters I’ve given up trying to explain anything to you. You don’t think I cared about you, that I conned you out of your money, while “betraying you in every possible way” that’s fine. I know that loved you and then I didn’t. You say that’s not possible, and that I must have lied about loving you in the first place, fine. I’ve apologized to you several times for the way things ended but you’ve always dismissed it so I gave up on that too. You’ll get your 13k back soon trust me, nothing will make me happier.

**iPod… about that. I smashed that f#@&er to little tiny bits after I got the only email I’ve gotten from my uncle since our break up asking me to return it to you.

**If you want to believe that I emotionally and financially “conned” you then that’s up to you but it’s complete garbage.

Yall…he lied to me about everything!!!!! From the day we met he lied about his education, why he lived where he did, having a commission coming soon, his “life”history, relocating on my dime for a job that didn’t exist. Like LJ said he lied about stuff and made stories up that he never needed to….complete fiction that never needed to be told. This man even told someone else that he couldn’t date because he lost his fiancee in the towers on 911….who does this crap.

And then he tells me that “it doesn’t really matter” It matters!!!! Living your life as a lie matters. He has a warrant in Minnesota for credit card fraud….He has started an investment fund lying about his educational credentials and work history. HE ruined his sisters credit by starting a publishing company with her credit and running off to Mexico when it failed. He didn’t pay his taxes last year for cash work that he did…IT MATTERS!!!!!! How can he sit there and say that honesty and hurting people doesn’t matter???!!???

I’m sorry….I am just a person who believes in justice. I believe in write and wrong. I’m just supper pissy tonight after the hurricane blew through!!! OK…lesson learned tomorrow starts NC again!!!!

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I actually sat down and wrote out some “boundaries” that I called DEAL KILLERS—meaning that if someone does this to me or somene else and I know about it, they will NOT RETAIN OR GET MY TRUST and I will not allow them inside my heart again unless there is some real and I mean REAL behavior changes and acknowledgments.

1. People who LIE

2. DIShonesty, or track record of such in the past (exconvict, drunk driving etc) people who take things that are not theirs. People who cheat on their spouse or GF/BF.

3) addictions, alcohol, drugs, or anything else that becomes THE most important thing in their life

4) Just plain nasty tempered and grumpy as a way of life, unkind to others like waiters, etc.

5) financially irresponsible, broke because of bad planning—like not carrying car insurance etc. and then wreck the car, that is a PLANNING PROBLEM not a wreck problem. Don’t pay their child support or whatever….

6) trouble holding a job

Why do I need people with any of those “problems” in my life?

I looked around and you know I had several people in my life who STOLE from me and I was afraid of huring THEIR FEELINGS WHY? LOL I had people who were mooching off me, and I was afraid to tell them NO Why?

I TREAT OTHERS THE WAY I WANT TO BE TREATED

AND

I EXPECT OTHERS TO TREAT ME AS WELL AS I TREAT THEM.

Period, end of that discussion. Treat me the way I treat you or GO AWAY, GET THE HELL GONE, AND DON’T COME BACK. LOL

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I had never come across someone who could lie to you so boldly, ignore you for days at a time and then wonder what your problem was, cry like a baby when you finally got really really angry, dismissive of you if you were emotionally weak and showed distress. Trouble was, I was madly in love with him before these little oddities became apparent, and when we love, we tend to justify/rationalise those little oddities as not really the worst thing, in the scheme of things. They creep up on you, the moments in between so good it’s easy to forget those little oddities until you are on your own, away from their power, in the cold light of day. You suddenly find yourself thinking about one of those little oddities, and wondering. Then things move along quite nicely until the next weird little thing happens, and the next, and they drop their mask just a tad, just enough to make you wonder if they are all they seem. You start doubting yourself, after all, on the whole, well he seems so great doesn’t he? Or does he? Little lies, plausible reasons, bit of doubt creeps in. If you aren’t satisfied by the plausible reason, then you are made to feel bad while he moves into victime mode. If that doesn’t do it, silent treatment.

That’s when my loss of self belief started to creep in. A lot of the lies made no sense – he didn’t really need the lie. Some of them were just downright weird, like telling me he had joined a rugby club in his new location, and he couldn’t wait to play. Telling me about each game in detail. (We lived apart for some time initially as he got a job overseas) Phoning me in excitement to tell me he found a sports shop and bought some rugby boots. Why do I tell you this, you wonder. Well he went to such lengths to tell me about all this. I wasn’t really that bothered, I wasn’t there at the time. But I tried to be interested in it all.

A year later I was to find those rugby boots. Still in the box. Still all wrapped with the labels on. Never worn.

I can remember sitting for a long long time (quite funny really) staring at those boots. All his words kind of floating around my head as I tried to figure out how this could make any kind of sense. And a weird kind of feeling, a bit of dread, creeping up from my stomach as I began to realise I had come across a few things by then that didn’t make sense, but somehow realising he could make this story up, could he make up others too?

Then you would spend time with him, and his charm, his intellect, his (apparent) devotion and affection, and you would doubt you could think such harsh things and there must be some rational explanation.

After a long time of “there must be some explanation” and his realising I was beginning to catch on, his tactics started. Silences. Gaslighting. Confusing me. Denying things, telling me I was unstable. Always done in a gentle, patronising voice, with a smile that never quite reached the eyes.

Yet by then I had the image of him that I believed, and loved, not this image, not this cold uncaring man. I could never quite bring the two images together and see it for what it was.

So yes, by the time I realised I had to get away, I was too enmeshed, too confused, too hurt, to see how I had been taken in, and totally lost trust in my “self”. Where were my boundaries? Where were my values and self respect? Where did they go? Out the window?

I have noticed that like you say, it’s harder to set the line in the sand with people you care for. And that’s when I feel all those old feelings rush up, as soon as someone steps over a line. I find myself doubting, uncertain, a little afraid. You would think I would rise up and punch their lights out really!!

How do you re define your boundaries when your reality has been so confused you don’t even know if boundaries exist?

Perhaps that’s a question I should put out their ?

Thanks again for taking the time to read, and then give me such an insightful response. It does help. Enormously.

LJ

and Hugs back

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Glad to see you back. Your posts makes a lot of sense. I think, for what it’s worth, that we lose TRUST IN OURSELVES to KEEP OURSELVES SAFE.

The self-doubt I felt, the utter STOOPIDITY of being so deceived by so many, being gaslighted, reality twisted, thinking they loved me, realizing they didn’t ACT like it though….left me feeling more that I had let myself down than what they had done. Which was bad enough! It took me more time to “forgive’ MYSELF and to TRUST myself again than it took me to get “over” what THEY did.

Still have some sad or negative days or thought tracks from time to time..

The problem in the past with me was that there was no solid boundary, no point at which I would not let the person back into my “circle of trust”—no matter how painful the betrayal was if they were “family” or “close friends.”

I could stand my ground with outsiders, but not with those close to me….and I let too many people get too close.

Now I can trust myself, because I KNOW I will defend my boundaries and I know what those boundaries ARE. There isn’t any equivocating about “what the boundaries are” or who can cross them and who can’t. THERE is the line, don’t cross it, no matter who you are. LIE TO ME, CHEAT ME, show me you are dishonest or mean and you are OUT of my circle of trust forever. Have a nice life. Go away. Don’t need you. What part of Fark off do you not understand? Bye bye! No second chances, no third chances, I’m DONE!

It seems so simple now, just set limits and enforce them….but it sure wasn’t at the time…and yea, Ellejay, it is OKAY TO GET ANGRY! Anger is our friend! It tells us that someone is doing something nasty to someone! Heck, even Jesus got angry! If it’s good enough for Him, it is good enough for me!

Glad you are making progress! You are relearning to trust yourself agaiin! (((Hugs)))) and God bless.

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Southernman – your words “the relationship and the years of healing afterwards has left a profound effect on me both good and bad…Sadly, I doubt I’ll ever be the same person as before… ” hit a chord in me.

I know that there is a lot I have gained from this experience in terms of growing, learning about myself, clawing my way back up from a pit of despair and dealing mainly with the pain of having this person invade my sanity and try to tear it down. I know that. I read it here in all the positive posts. I feel it most of the time.

But I also know that a little part of me that I once valued so much has gone. I used to have a much greater sense of joy and happiness, I smiled a lot, and I was generally a happy person. I am stronger. I am more aware. I also find I have to work at it a bit harder. It is easy for me to find myself ruminating, even now. The pain isn’t anywhere as intense. But I still find myself unable to really satisfy myself with answers. Every story I read is different to mine, but the same. I have a little tiny core of sadness I just can’t seem to overcome. The sadness is for me. I lost sight of my self, my values, my self esteem, my belief system – they were all badly shaken by my experience. I had to do a LOT of work on myself and how I could allow one human being to have such a deeply disturbing and profound affect on me.

He’s still there, lurking around in the deep recesses of my mind. Rarely a day goes past that he might pop up in my head, even if only for a second or two. A constant reminder of how I was so easily fooled, manipulated, conned. A constant reminder of how powerfully I loved, was spellbound, and yes I think, addicted.

Mine was more the silent type. He could be verbally abusive, but it was more with clever use of confusing words, questioning my reality. It was the way words were delivered with contempt. Even though I realised I was up against something way out of my league to deal with in terms of his supreme intellect and always ahead of the game, I never stopped trying to convince myself that he couldn’t be all that bad. There must be a good person in there somewhere.

His ability to remain silent was astonishing. He could lock me out of the house and still somehow it felt like I deserved it even when my rational self knew that was far from the truth. He would remain silent.

It was through his communication I suffered. He could be so loving and attentive – so ruthlessly cold and dismissive. On one occasion when I had discovered he was texting at least six other women, sexually explicit texts, obviously one or two he had met up with, he asked me cooly and calmly “why do you worry about such stupid and trivial things?” and walked off to bed and went into a deep sleep within minutes, in the face of my distress, leaving me standing with my jaw on the floor. I hadn’t banked on that. I thought he might be contrite, sorry, embarrassed, try to explain. He neither admitted, nor denied. That was one of his cleverest ploys.

I was supposed to “endure” and when I finally left him, without warning, literally fleeing from the home a shadow of the woman I once had been, he admonished me for making a “mistake I would regret” and that he “understood – the bridges had fallen down” – he never once apologised, or asked me to go back to him, instead sending me messages of how I had let him down by showing him I didn’t need him. Not passionately. Just factual statements.

It was the strangest 2 years of my life – it created so much doubt in my head about what was right or wrong any more and I still suffer from that. I still struggle with boundaries. When I feel them being crossed, I am still able to sit and wonder if it’s really ok for me to angry about that. I have done a lot of work, but I still suffer from doubt about my own ability to recognise when I am being treated unfairly or unjustly. I used to even wonder if I was wrong to be angry at him for lying. Madness. Complete madness.

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I too! I now pray for “whatever YOU think I need, God, and I TRUST that whatever happens is what I need, because I know you would not give me something to hurt me!” (ALL things work together for good to those that love the Lord) so TRUSTing is important too.

We have to pray like it all depends on God and work like it all depends on US.

God promised if we had enough faith we could MOVE MOUNTAINS, but he did NOT say that we wouldn’t have to GET A SHOVEL and dig!

I don’t expect to just by “faith” make the rocky mountains disappear but I do believe if I have enough “faith” that I can dig through them and grab a shovel, I can make a dint in them.

So we must have faith and work toward a goal…but not try to TELL God what to do or how to run the universe. You know it runs better now that I quit MICRO-MANAGING GOD! LOL

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I had been set up with my now x and people we worked with thought we’d make a great couple. I wasn’t attracted to him at first and remember thinking he’s not my type. But, after doing what many women do and what used to make me hooked in (having sex too early) I found myself unable to see the red flags or to detach from him after emotionally and sexually “bonding” with him (I have learned A LOT since then!)

He was already doing things that were unacceptable but being invested in him kept me allowing him to be a jerk. I over looked the really important things because he was a physician (and I thought that would mean smart, dependable, have integrity and that my future would be secure). I thought he was honest, kind, GENTLE! and thinking he was so great with pets that I thought he must be a kind person. (WHATEVER! it’s embarrassing to write and hear myself now)

So when he was doing his push pull thing with me I had my future planned out with him…and when he was pulling away I’d pray and pray for a husband. Not pray for the right husband, or a kind man or God’s plan or will but I prayed for him because I had invested myself in him. I pleaded for this man to be my husband. I was ready to be married again. It had been 15 years since my son’s dad and I split (we are very good friends….never should have left him but that is another story). I thoguht I was ready to be a wife and mother again and almost felt desperate (which should have been the sign for me). So, God gave me what I thought i wanted…and wow talk about be careful what you pray for. I sure paid the price for that desperate plea!

Now I pray to be open to do God’s will. I learned a lot of patience having four miscarriages with xspath and then adopting. My D is a BLESSING that I couldn’t have ever imagined in my own pea brain. I learned how to let go and trust in the process…something I am having to do now as well. Already I have grown up so much in just the past month seeing the areas in my life that needed change. It’s humbling that at the age of 51 I am just now growing up!

So Ox I udnerstand completely how blessings come when we think the worst thing has happened to us…now I pray to see the blessings, too. But remembering my prayers for husband I also have changed the way I pray!!

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Due to down sizing, I lost my job at the college health services that I LOVED. I had developed it from scratch and they made it PART TIME, (there goes my insurance!) I was CRUSHED! Cried, mourned! But, couple of weeks later, found a great job, great benefits ONLY WORKING WEEKENDS at a hospital. WOW! 5 days a week off to be home. Shortly after that my beloved step dad was diagnosed with cancer—If I had been working at the college I could not have had the time to be with him. BLESSING!!! Plus, for the year and a half before my husband died I got to spend time with HIM 5 days a week, be with , step father, and spend time outdoors on the farm where I wanted to be.

So losing the job I loved which made me feel like my world had caved in, was a BLESSING setting me up for time with my husband before he died, time with my stepfather during his illness and death and believe me, THOSE HOURS AND DAYS I SPENT WITH THEM ARE THE MOST PRECIOUS MEMORIES I HAVE. If I hadn’t lost that job, I wouldn’t have had time. Also, if I hadn’t lost that job I would not have been able to be WITH MY HUSBAND between the crash and when he died. I would have been at work and there would have been no way I could have gotten to him in time.

I can look back at my life and see HUNDREDS of things that I thought were BAD to one degree or another, but every one of them turned out in the END to have been a blessing in one way or another. I don’t care how “dirty or ugly” the wrapping paper is, just keep the idea in your mind that the GIFT may be much much prettier than you can imagine.

Sometimes it is like a baby parrot, it is BUTT UGLY AT FIRST, BUT WHEN IT IS MATURED IT IS GLORIOUS!

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Also, I think that quote was from Martin Seligman…a psychologist. I wrote a friend of mine said that but mis spoke! sorry! Was posting last night with a severe migraine…

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