215 Comments to “ASK DR. LEEDOM: FAQ #1 “Why is this so hard for us mentally?””

1. Mickey says:

   I understand all that Dr. Leedom is giving as reasons why we are unable to get beyond our experience with a sociopath. I agree that depression has a lot to do with it. But from someone who has lived through the “trauma” of life with a sociiopath, I have to add that I believe it is the singlemost dramatic and horrifying experience of my life, including the death of loved ones. There is nothing that I can give you as an example, nothing that I could even make up including stories of unbearable physical torture, that could compare to the mental anguish and torture that sociopaths perpetrate on their victims. I am quite sure that I will never be the same person I was before I fell into his web of deceit and destruction.

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   Friday, 4 May 2007 @ 9:21am

2. hislastdance says:

   I agree with all Dr. Leedom has said. I wish someone could wave
   a wand over my head and make it all go away.
   I haven’t gone for therapy because it is expensive and there was
   no blood shed, I get tired of being told to “move on and don’t dwell
   on this anymore”
   Medicine turned me into a couch zombie and without it I cry.
   I think us victims are our own best therapist because we know
   what we know, and cannot convince others of the truth.
   This man didn’t dangle diamonds in front of me, but twisted every detail of his problems and life around to make it seem I was the
   unstable one. Investigations have since proven the truth, I have
   been fortunate I am not his first victim or his last and there are
   many in between, but I have been advised that I have done all
   that I can do to recover. Depression and fear can be overcome
   but it sure takes time. It has been eight months for me and the
   fear seems to be subsiding, the depression, anger, rage, confusion is changing into motivation, exactly how I do not know, maybe just with time. The mental anguish is worse than
   anything I could have felt from him if he were physically abusive.
   I find that social support is a great help too, once I get out there
   and have some fun, I find I have less anxiety at least for one
   more day, and this experience is an hour to hour game of
   survival, the opponent is gone. I do want an answer someday
   though as to whether or not he has short term memory or does
   he recall everything he did to his victims.
   And how far in advance do these mentally ill perpetrators plan
   the outcome, ie, buying the house, planning the trip, having an
   affair, are they impulsive or do they know? From my experience
   I can see that he planned it because I was his patient at his medical office and I remember the appointment where he didn’t wear his ring, took my arm and apologized for running late,
   asked me to bring my dog by the office so he could see him,
   returned medical calls late at night… and on and on. The thing
   is I saw it coming but he had me frozen and I couldn’t do anything about it till the end, he was finally arrested and I was
   set free.

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   Friday, 4 May 2007 @ 11:52am

3. aha says:

   I think the pathologicals are running an old time swindle. Similar to what carnival barkers and salesmen run, although they now call themselves CEOs and fraud fortune 1000 companies, in essence they are slimey pathological crooks bait and switch artists, junk peddlers, robbers and con men.

   The old sucker con on wall street is to let a target win the first time, same with gambling cons, then after the first big win, the target is then robbed in all subsequent trades, the target throws good money after bad to try to RECOUP THIER LOSSES and get back to the intial win, that first win was staged by the pathological(s) as the bait.
   The pathological plays the very same BAIT AND SWITCH game in love romance marriage cons because women and children are easy targets to the pathologicals sick mind, it is hard for targets to forget because instinctively the targets want to RECOUP THIER LOSSES, be they emotional losses or financial losses. So the targets ruminate to try to figure out a way to recover thier losses.
   More frauds needs to be prosecuted in courts as pathologicals only understand cause and effect.
   Also the worthless concept of ‘romance’ is the perfect cover for todays robbers. Crooks are having a harder time robbing in the 9 to 5 world so most of the predatory practice is going on after 5PM in the love romance marriage cons. To rob a womans paycheck, credit, signature, inheritance, etc is the primary goal of the pathological. Do a test, tell a patho you have an MBA and watch a pathological males eyes light up like a xmas tree.
   Like pigs snorkling for truffles in the mud, todays pathological males are all looking for a working womans paycheck to rob, stealing her childrens milk and cookie money. That is the essence of a patholoigical male, stealing childrens milk and cookie money. As they age, pathological males can be found hanging out near schoolyards looking for 5 year olds at recess time.
   Prison work camps and restitution paid to victims would be a good way to teach pathological males cause and effect, by forcing a pathological to pay restitution, a cause and effect message is sent to the pathological predator and parasitical male.
   Targets ruminate to try to recoup thier losses in this old time bait and switch, predatory, love romance marriage con run by pathologicals. Fraud convictions and restitution would, I believe, ease some of the ruminating of those targeted by a pathological.

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   Tuesday, 8 May 2007 @ 6:37pm

4. soloflyer1961 says:

   I am just starting the process of getting over a sociopathic relationship. It was 6 years in the making and he left 3 months ago with no warning–but with over 60,000 in gifts, cash and a new car he took from me. When I found out he had an affair, lied, cheated etc. I had a heart attack and am still trying to get out of the house. I have 3 children and a full time job, I am at risk for losing my job because I can not stop crying-my kids are due to come home for the summer from college and I am dreading it–I don’t want to leave my room. I have tried counseling, medication, hypnotism–nothing gets him out of my head. He blackmailed me, called me every name in the book and then would spend hours convincing me I was the “love of his life” the only one he would ever be with–I swear it feels like he cursed me. He is off with a new person as happy as can be and I am left in total devestation. I suffered for 6 years with his ups and downs, his ranting and screaming -mixed with charming talk of a future together. I had major surgery a year ago and he was not there for any of the testing–too busy out with friends. I needed him to help take care of me after the surgery and because he lived 60 miles away–the only way he would help was if I signed a loan on a car for him because of course he has no credit. Now I have no credit–no money-no relationship and can’t leave my house. I am full of anger, mistrust, jealousy and honestly–I feel I will never ever get over this. I have read everything, tried everything, I have no contact with him at all, am pursuing legal action to at least get the car back that is in my name–but I feel guilty for that–WHAT IS wrong with me???

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   Wednesday, 9 May 2007 @ 7:02am

5. Liane Leedom, M.D. says:

   Dear Soloflyer,

   You said he left 3 months ago and

   “I have tried counseling, medication, hypnotism–nothing gets him out of my head.”

   3 months is not long enough for the things you mentioned to work. Medication can take 6-12 weeks to begin to work. The question is, “Will you recover faster with medication and therapy?” I know that when you are suffering every minute counts.

   Recovery starts with changing, “I can’t leave the house” to “I don’t want to leave the house” to “I will choose to do what will give me well-being”

   If you make the right choices minute by minute, praise yourself for making good choices. Over time, the good choices will add up. I do not speak these words with any belief that what I propose is easy. I only know that, nearly everyone who recovers, does it this way.

   Take comfort in knowing that others have also travelled this same path, and at the end there is peace and joy to be found.

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   Wednesday, 9 May 2007 @ 9:46am

6. lovelyt says:

   Dear Soloflyer,

   I’m a survivor of a sociopath and I wanted to give you some words of support. I dated a man for over 3 years and experience many of the same things everyone experiences with these types of people. The last time he moved out while I was at work and the kids were at school, so literally unexpectedly, was in January of 2007. When everything first came out about all of his lies about 2 years ago, I was completely devastated. I felt like I was falling and spinning at the same time, I didn’t even know which was up or what the real truth was. At that time I decided to stay, becasue I didn’t really know he was a sociopath and I didn’t even know what it meant. Over the last two years more and more lies came out and there were times I just wished he woudl leave. I was so distraught at times, I couldn’t even think straight. Each time he moved out I felt better and disconnected even more. The last time he moved out in February of this year, I was upset, sad, depressed, and discombobulated, but somewhre deep down inside I felt tremendous relief. My suggestion to you is to search you soul for those feelings that are the highest parts of yourself that tell you the truth about him and about yourself, the truth that says you are much better off without him. I still sometimes think about him, but then I go on the web and read blogs like this and my mentality changes immediately to a positive attitude about my self. I didn’t let him come back because I found the strength to search for the truth and ACCEPT that truth this time. You have to accept what you know about him as truth and once you do that you will begin healing. What helped me to do that was reading these blogs each and everyday, and I also started learning as much about the personality disorder as possible. One of the best newsletter I got is from tearsandhealing.com. By learning more and more about the disorder, I started to develop more and more personal power within myself. I had to read each and every day at first, several times a day, but now I only read maybe a couple of times a month to keep in tune. Time heals all wounds, give it some more time and work on yourself in the meantime. The stronger you are the faster you’ll heal and the more abundant you life will be.

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   Wednesday, 9 May 2007 @ 12:06pm

7. soloflyer1961 says:

   Thank you for the words of encouragement—-I feel too old anymore to deal with this-I am 45—I have a beautiful home and 3 grown children which I almost completely lost the respect of because of him. He convinced me to do things I would never in a million years do–He said if I loved him I would—so I did–He would force me to have sex with his friends so he could watch and take pics–now he is using that as blackmail and threatening to mail them to my kids at college! I am beyond upset, heartsick and depressed as to what I let him do–what I believed in and how this all ended.

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   Wednesday, 9 May 2007 @ 1:59pm

8. Fighter says:

   We recommend this book to all our victims:

   http://www.emotional-rape.com/

   Its worth a read.

   Most of our victims say its about 18-24 months before things ease up.

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   Wednesday, 9 May 2007 @ 10:10pm

9. deedee says:

   I had a relationship with a sociopath which ended 3 months ago. I am no quite sure if i am depress or not, but I’ve been having a lot of up and down lately, mostly down. I will be fine for a couple of days, and suddenly I have a bad day or a silly fight with a friend or my mother, and then i start crying and cant stop. I dont really know what is happening to me. I feel fragile, like the smallest of things is enough to upset the balance. I cant seem to understand why it’s happening now, i was doing fine, most of the time, I am doing fine.

   When you stop smoking, they say that the third week and the third month are the hardest. Maybe it’s the same when you leave a sociopath. I mean the first two months, I was so determined to move on and to stop being his victim, and now I just realize all the damages done to my sense of self, to my ability to relate to others and to move on, and i dont know what to do, i feel so lost

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   Friday, 11 May 2007 @ 10:10pm

10. noanger says:

    I am so glad I found this! I have been away from him for a year and a half. I had three therapy sessions about two months after I escaped with my children. The things that went on in the 8 years we were together are beyond description. I don’t even know how to explain it. Anyway I think I was in a “honeymoon” phase for quite a while after I left him and was just happy and relieved to be free. To this day I feel no anger towards him and what he’s done to me and the children. We all have nightmares, my oldest who suffered the most has been diagnosed with PTSD and ADHD, and my youngest seems to be ok. I started dating a man a few months after I left him and things are going very well.
    My biggest problem is with fear. I worry incessantly about saying things to my man because I don’t want to make him mad or have him not want to be with me anymore. I know on one level that he’s not Him and not anything like personality wise. It’s the “replay” level that I can’t seem to get past. It doesn’t help that memories of “him” are triggered almost constantly now because of the ongoing legal processes for divorce/division of property/custody. He filed up where he’s from for everything. Jurisdiction was given to the state where I reside, he fought it a little, but never showed up for ANY court dates nor did he file answers to any of the custody filings. I now have sole custody with no contact of both our children, but it hurts so much to know that I lived with someone who would rather fight me for a house that I paid for and put my own labor into than to see the kids. On one hand I’m grateful that we’ll probably never have to deal with him b/c of visitation and such, but on the other hand… I don’t know why I can’t feel anger at his treatment of me or the kids, I pretend because I know that’s what’s expected, but I don’t. Can anyone offer me something to understand why this is?

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    Tuesday, 22 May 2007 @ 7:55pm

11. hehadlastlaff says:

    This is a very interesting website – I found it by googling “con artists”.

    In 1998 I was ripped off by a con artist, whom I met through a personal ad. I was going through a very serious depression at the time, and that’s when I met him. He seemed like a breath of fresh air, very intelligent, different than other men I had met. He seemed very supportive of me, and what I was going through with my depression.

    He asked me “what are your goals”. I realize now, that this is how he tricked me – into believing that he was going to help me achieve a few things–I said I wanted to move into a home – he helped me find a home – but guess who was paying the high rent of the home??? ME. Once I moved in with him, he had COMPLETE control of me, and was using my credit. He convinced me to order a variety of credit cards, and buy all types of things for this home that we were living in, stating that he had money invested in the stock market that would take care of it all.

    When I look back on it now, I realize how stupid I was, but at the time, I was going through a very serious depression, was not thinking clearly, and allowed this jerk to manipulate me. He would go into these screaming rages, and this is one of the ways he controlled and intimidated me into doing what he wanted.

    We were only together for six months, because when the money ran out, he was gone. While I was out of town, he took off, and moved a lot of the possessions (which I paid for) out of the house.

    I had to declare bankruptcy, my good credit was ruined, and I lost an apartment that I had paid for – as he convinced me to take out a mortgage on my apartment & he would invest the money for me, and I would get an excellent return on the money.

    I was too devastated to pursue the guy in a civil law suit, and am trying to move on with my life – this happened almost 9 years ago, but still remains fresh in my memory as though it were only yesterday.

    How does one ever get over the heartache of being taken by a con artist??

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    Thursday, 31 May 2007 @ 12:44am

12. pokeybanana says:

    I read a comment on this blog last week where the reader said that she stopped trying to figure out what was “real” and what was a lie. Intead, she finally accepted that it was all a lie, and it became easier in her mind. I don’t remember where the comment was posted, but I think I’m paraphrasing her correctly. At least, I hope I’m paraphrasing her correctly because when I read her remarks, I realized that in the past month, I have started to feel a sense of freedom in my mind. I still have days, times, when I will remember something that had touched me when it originally occurred only to be quickly followed by the sudden reminder that it was all a lie. And those times are painful. This time of year is especially difficult. My father passed away 12/22/2003, and at the time, my sociopath and I were heavily involved. I get angry because I can’t grieve the loss of my father without remembering HIM. It was one time when he was especially comforting, and I don’t want to remember that. Whatever “softness” he displayed was fake, a lie. I can only hope that one day, when Christmas rolls around and I’m reminded of my dad’s passing that I’ll be able to recall the way my dad made me laugh instead of how this sociopath made me cry.

    And, as an FYI, I am suing my ex-boyfriend for damages he did to my house in the way of unfinished projects. I’ve already sent him a final negotiating/demand letter, which resulted in him calling to bluster and thunder and call me names and tell me he would ruin my life, blah, blah, blah. And for the first time since meeting him, I felt no fear, no regret at “upsetting” him, nothing — except a sense of victory as I heard him become irritated at the fact that he couldn’t upset or rattle me. Even his parting words, “If I were you, I’d watch for your safety,” made me laugh. Do I fear for my safety? No. And when I replied, “go ahead,” his frustration hit its high and he hung up on me. I do not fear justice. I fear never loving anyone again. I fear never trusting anyone again. I do not fear doing what is right; I fear doing nothing at all.

    Happy New Year, everyone!

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    Tuesday, 1 January 2008 @ 2:04am

13. kim says:

    that is what i need to do make him pay for all the holes in my walls broken remotes and phones and how long until we can be strong all day long i try to do the everything was a lie or is a lie to keep myself from guessing but i still care and i hurt alot i want to hate him and he left me 3 weeks before christmas wouldnt even talk to me knowing i could loose my house and now 2 weeks after christmas he wants to hang out with us and try to lay rules if he were to come home and the things that i do wrong reasons that he left or is at his mommys ( he is 44) wow when i reread what i write i know the advice i would give but why wont i listen had a fit because i took our daughter to see sesame street where did you get the money how did you pay your housepayment i must be rich because i had 2 doc appt. and i used gas to get there he knows i am struggling and dosent even offer to help who is this man well he has lived here on and off for 3.5 years never helping financial 2 months he didnot like where i was working so he finally says i will help you with the bills so i quit and guess what he moves out all of the sudden starts fights accuses me of running around on him dosnt like my friends now. so he knows that i am not working and was dependent on his portion of the money i have other sources so i always brought more money into the household but i had quit my job and the kids would be out of school for 3 weeks for christmas and i was stuck no babysitter and no job last time he moved out if forget why this time he was over my house on thursday nd friday spent the night had no money for his daughter left sat morning with a probably be back this evening and took another female out sat night of course it was my fault because i was working at a place where my old old boyfriend would go (reastaurant with a bar) so i was running around on him i wasnot i just needed a job and this one worked around the hours my children (2 of them) were in school i could take them in the morning and be home when the bus came by. our child is only 2.5 and when we went to child support ct but he told them he lived with me ( he just moved back when i forgave him for the date with other female) so he was not ordered to pay child support help me someone i still hurt nicbranmia@yahoo.com

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    Wednesday, 16 January 2008 @ 1:37pm

14. jofary says:

    Noanger: I don’t know that there’s any point in questioning why you don’t feel angry.

    Everyone grieves differently (browsing the blogs shows a huge range of emotion) and anger is only one stage of a process that can last several years. You may reach it and you may not. It may simply not be “safe” for you to really feel the anger right now because you’re still dealing with your divorce and you need a cool head to get through it, so you’re denying this feeling to exist just yet.

    Also, indicating you are fearful of saying or doing the wrong thing to your new man may mean you don’t feel safe acknowledging your anger in general (because you may misplace it on your man – and then you’ll definitely be saying/doing the “wrong” thing!).

    Please be careful in your new relationship. You don’t sound like you’ve finished the grieving process and, if you haven’t noticed from the other blogs, you – a newly separated woman with children – are prime pickings for sociopaths. I’m not suggesting your new guy is one, but definitely pay attention to any red flags.

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    Wednesday, 16 January 2008 @ 2:30pm

15. change06 says:

    I am psycho too! Or am I just in reaction to his tactics to bring it out of me? This is my third day on the site and I am a recent victim of the sociopath. I have been left feeling as we all express, depression, anxiety, questioning and acting crazy. After his conning, manipulation, lies, and his twisting things around and accusing me that it was my fault. Making him angry. I should just keep my mouth shut and listen to him. I stuck around thinking I would beat him at his game. When I was able to lure him to were I wanted I would drop the bomb on him….It doesnt work- and he got me good. Taking my heart, sanity, and now money. His family members are all disturbed in their own right and he is the greatest manipulator of them. They believe his lies and excuses that his actions are in response to everyone elses wrong doing to him…Me included! Once they were part in sucking me in and now they think I am just a psycho….because of the light he shown on me. This last time he left me I have made continual calls of all kinds to him (one reason is because I wanted my money back) the other reasons I am figuring out now. I feel I am pulling myself out of a cult situation. I still want him, love him and want to fix him. WHY??? Im Working on that and keeping close contact on the blog is helping me one day at a time. One minute at a time!! I suggest the people who are in a close area,(I am in NJ) we should meet and form a support group. SS annonymous…Sociopath Survivors. If anyone is interested please email me at princessonewitch@yahoo.com

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    Wednesday, 16 January 2008 @ 3:53pm

16. Beverly says:

    Change06. I tried to beat my ex at his own game, thought I could outsmart him and I did in some things – I played the double double bluff on him and he doesnt know everything. But I took an emotional beating for not following his plan. There was so much anxiety, grief and pain for someone who did nothing for me. He was very good at pretending and rolling things along now and again to make out he was investing in me – but I saw through it.

    Disconnecting from them, as you will read from the survivors who have been down this road – have all been through similar – missing them, wanting them back to fix them – this is all part of the addiction that keeps us hooked into such bad relationships. Like any addiction, complete withdrawal is essential if possible and going through the difficult fallout feelings and thoughts that many of us have been through. It helps alot to get support and someone trusted to talk to who wont judge you. I find expressing myself through this site helps too and meeting like minded people.

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    Wednesday, 16 January 2008 @ 4:23pm

17. peggywhoever says:

    I have found this to be the most helpful and fascinating website I have encountered. My sociopathic boyfriend is a classic, with all of the symptoms. Grandoise, charming, manipulating, conning, pathalogical lying. Of course we (my children and I) didn’t know any of this. It is the most painful experience of my life, as I trusted him implicitly. He is a predator and has now moved onto another victim. It has been 4 months and I am just now beginning to feel normal, “whatever that is”. I mourned him, and actually thought he had a brain tumor because his behaviour became erractic, emotionally and verbally abusive. I have done (honestly) 500 hours of research and have found broken past relationships including: 1) cheating his ex-wife out of her share of their jointly owned home, 2) swindling former best friend 3) “stealing” money from business partners 4) broken family relationships…including identical twin 5) only one long-term friend. He presently has a new girlfriend who he thinks has money, and/or her family has money and he is trying to swindle them. I called her and her family and tried to warn them, but then got a call from the police that I couldn’t contact her family anymore. So I won’t. But he’ll take everything from them too, his favorite saying is “it’s all about the money”. Fortunately or unfortunately, he is also very good in bed and is extremely convincing, so he’s really clever and capable of trickery. I have never experienced anything like this before, it’s like a nightmare, extremely emotionally devastating. Thank goodness I have finally figured out what happened, so can be on the road to healing and recovery. My family and friends have had a difficult time understanding how I have become “obsessed” with trying to figure out what happened. I was faithful and true, loving and kind with him and thought he was my best friend. He was not. Thank goodness I didn’t invest financially with him, he tried to get me to do this through many ventures, and I would have lost my shirt. Blessings to all of you who are going through or have gone through this experience it is not fun. You may e-mail me if you wish peggywhoever@yahoo.com

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    Wednesday, 16 January 2008 @ 7:38pm

18. alohatraveler says:

    Dear Peggywhoever,

    It’s strange but it seems we all have gone through the slueth stage and the research stage. We end up here from doing research, I suspect.

    I applaud you for attempting to warn the other woman about this man and what happened to you sounds pretty typical. The Sociopath will be in a honeymoon phase with his new victim and he will already be filling her head with stories of all the women who didn’t understand him like she does… topped with over the top compliments, affection and as you said… hot in the sack sex. You can be sure that he has already primed the pump so that when you show up and try to warn someone, you will sound like the psycho ex that he made you out to be. You know how convincing they can be so you can understand how she would believe him. After all… she is in LOVE! Right?

    It’s sad really but the truth will come out and don’t be surprised if one day she contacts you back after she has been destroyed emotionally and financially screwed.

    About being “obsessed.” Here at LoveFraud, no one will call you obsessed because we all have gone through the same process of healing and letting go. Part of letting go, I think, is being obsessed with figuring it out for awhile. It won’t ever make sense but that is the conclusion you have to come to on your own. I spent plenty of time trying to figure out my man when I was still with him and I love what you said about a “brain tumor”. I totally get that. Their behavior is so perplexing and out of our range of experience most of the time that we think of all kinds of crazy reasons until we stumble on the definition of a Sociopath. How did you feel the first time you read the criteria and there you saw all his behaviors like a shopping list? If you haven’t found it yet, look for “DSM-IV” definitions on the internet. They are very helpful.

    As for me, my early attempts to warn others backfired and ended with more people calling me crazy which at the time, I wasn’t sure if maybe I was… because feeling like you are “losing your mind” is just one of the neat benefits of your sociopathic encounter. The good news is when you realize there is nothing wrong with you… you will be stronger than ever. And I am lucky in one way… I discovered that one brave soul posted a warning in Sept. 07 about my sociopath on Craigslist in Hawaii where I used to live. That one brave person sparked a landslide of warnings.. (I have thrown a few in there myself).. that continues today. I don’t know how many different individuals are posting but I think it’s a lot as my ex, I call him “the Bad Man”, uses CL constantly to try and meet new victims. He has sex with them and then flips out on them and sends them volumes of vicious emails. If you go to CL Hawaii and use “search” feature on the left side bar, you can search for “merman” in the personals. All the emails that come up are about the Bad Man. When I was with him, he didn’t use CL back then. I am not sure if the Bad Man is a sociopath because he seems to have lost his slick side in the past few years but either way… he is dangerous, exploitive, vicious and bad news for anyone unfortunate enough to be seduced by him for even one day.

    Anyway, welcome to LoveFraud and here’s to your recovery.

    Aloha…….E.R.

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    Thursday, 17 January 2008 @ 2:04pm

19. moraira43 says:

    I never learned to drive because I met P at a young age and we made an agreement that he would learn to drive first and then me, he said we couldnt afford to learn together. We got our first car and he started giving me lessons, he was so impatient and critical and joked that i wasnt a natural. I frequently just stopped and got out of the car. When I started lessons with a proper instructor my confidence was gone, I was so anxious that my knuckles would be white gripping the steering wheel and I would be physically sick before the lesson. I dont drive at all, I never passed my test because i struggled so much with the anxiety. I was driven everywhere by P, dropped at work and picked up, very convenient I thought, but I hadnt thought about the control aspect, because I dont drive I only go out with him.

    The anxiety mentioned has been a constant problem for me, that awful churning, nausea and shakiness when i realised he had done something else that I found it hard to accept. I really struggle with this, because I have told him to go it is worse than ever and I cant eat, I have lost a lot of weight due to this.

    I never associated these problems with him, that has given me evenmore of a reason to get rid

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    Tuesday, 30 September 2008 @ 7:28pm

20. OxDrover says:

    Dear Moraira,

    I you don’t drive, and he still has the keys, but you want to sell the car, like I said on the other thread, let the air out of the tires (at least two) you do this by removing the cap (it screws off) of the valve stem on the tires. Inside after the little cap is off, is a thing that looks like a tiny button in the middle of a small metal circle. Push down on the buttton with something small and it will spew and his the air out. When the tire goes flat, do another one. He will not be able to drive the car til it is fixed. Be sure and put the cap back on after the air is out.

    When he is gone, call a tow truck and have them open the car (they can do that) just say you have lost the keys, and then have them tow it to some place safe where you can get the VIN number (look on the other thread for how to find it) and then call the dealership and have the keys made from that number there. Then you can have someone drive it to a hiding place from your Husband.

    Good luck dear, and keep your anxiety in check, come here and post all you need to dear! YOU CAN DO IT for you and your daughter! (((hugs))) and I am keeping you in my prayers!

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    Tuesday, 30 September 2008 @ 7:38pm

21. moraira43 says:

    thanks OXY X

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 30 September 2008 @ 7:45pm

22. ReardenTech says:

    Dr. Leedom,

    First, let me just say that my best friend is a student of yours, and what he learns in your class is frequently injected into our conversations and debates. It sounds like he is learning from the best, and I agree with very much of what you say!

    This post in particular was incredibly illuminating. The following quote describes one of my friends perfectly:

    “At the beginning of a relationship, sociopaths determine what a victim’s most sacred dreams are. They then proceed to convince the victim that they are the answer to those dreams. Victims often feel that the sociopath is their dream come true, not realizing that they told the sociopath their dreams and the sociopath then used the information to deceive. No one wants to give up his/her most sacred dream. Sociopaths know this and count on it. This fact makes victims enter a state of denial in order to preserve the illusion that these dreams have come true. When that state of denial is finally broken, depression sets in. The depression is about a feeling of hopelessness that the things wanted most in life will never be achieved.”

    It seems like she is totally resigned to learned helplessness, has lost any concept of love with non-sociopathic guys and that her only recourse is wistful daydreaming about who the sociopaths in her life were before they became their true selves. It’s actually very sad. I care about her greatly, and it’s painful watching a once happy (and still very sweet and kind) girl transform from a life-loving person to a hollow, emotional shell of her old self.

    But, such is the nature of the beast I suppose…

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 6:58pm

23. ReardenTech says:

    As an aside, it’s amazing that sociopaths can con women in spite of their awful pasts. The man my friend is currently dating, for example, used their first date to discuss how he spent 10 years blowing cocaine, passing out at bars, sleeping with random women, getting engaged 3 times (all failures), being duped into thinking he fathered a child with one of them (it wasn’t actually his child, so he says) and oh yes, he’s 28 while she is not even 21.

    But in addition to all of that, he acted extremely interested in her, called/text messaged her daily, told her how great she was, and acted very eager to make their relationship “official” so he could “treat her right” the way her last boyfriend did not. (The prior boyfriend was also a sociopath.)

    Now…as an outsider, I found it nothing short of shocking (and infuriating) that a man with such a history could win a girl’s heart so easily. But I guess, as you say, that’s exactly what they are best at doing.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 7:07pm

24. victimx says:

    I have been in and out of a relationship for four years with a sociopathic marcissist. When he gets angry he just leaves without any concern for my worry for him at all. It is like he is punishing me for not seeing things his way. He has pushed me to the point that I have felt so hopelessly alone and miserable I wanted to die. In fact, I did try to hurt myself on four different occasions. I figured it was better to die than go on with the pain of what he was doing to me. What I wish someone could explain to me is WHY I allow this man to continually tear me down, rip me apart, tear my world completely apart and then step on it as if it were just manure. I want to understand why a seemingly healthy, normal, welll-adjusted woman allows a man to call her bitch, whore, piece of —-, etc. I am 52 years old, an x-model and have had a wonderful career. Sometimes when I am all alone, I wonder so ofter why I don’t give the other guys a chance. Why can’t I even think about building a relationshiop with another person? This man is charming, handsome but souless. I know this, I have known it for a long time but why do I desperately want him in my life? For example, when we would go to the movies, he’d carress me and hold my face in his hands and I absolutely melted into him. Then, he and I could be walking out the door and if he noticed me even looking innocently at another man, he would go nuts. He would berate me, curse me, be so horribly abusive to me that I couldn’t say a word and the hell of it is, he temporarily had me convinced that everything was my fault. I would constantly be apologizing to him for this and that when I knew in my heart and soul, I had done nothing wrong, I hadn’t even thought anything wrong! I am new to this site and it is helpful to read about so many experiences that seem exactly like my own. With that said, I am still miserable, still ashamed I have let another human being destroy me in every way and I know I still love him and I shouldn’t. He has bedded five different women that I know of while he and I were together. He would use our fights as an excuse to justify his behavior. Frankly, right now, I still don’t want to go on without him yet I also know if I do I will be miserable for the rest of my life. This hold he has on me is unlike any other experience I have ever had with other men. Why am I so trapped? Why can’t I just turn my back and walk away. In Sept. of 2008, he had accused me of flirting and we had a huge argument. I couldn’
    take his berating any longer and I overdosed. When he realized I had done this, he demanded I leave or he would call the police. I was barely able to walk and when he shoved me out the door, I made it to the steps and fell down them hitting my head at least three times in my attempt to get up. He heard me fall, he told me he did later, but he merely took a look at me and walked away. A neighbor called 911 to help me because I couldn’t get up. I was dying and I knew it and I wanted to. The entire time the EMS was there, he never once came to my aid, never asked how I was and worse yet, never visited me in the hospital or make a single phone call as to how I was. My God, he wouldn’t leave a DOG
    hurt and helpless at the bottom of the stairs but this guy did. After I got out of the hospital, about three weeks later, he contacted me wanting to get together again and try to make it work. I WENT BACK TO HIS JERK!!!!! Not only that, I allowed him to continue to berate me, curse me for overdosing, minimizing me as a human being to absolutely nothing. As of today, he has decided that it is over yet again. I know he will come back after he does whatever it is he wanted to do while I was in the picture. I know he is shallow, I know he is emotionally void and I know he is totally souless but what do I do about myself when all I will allow myself to think about is him and not upsetting him? I feel as though I am in prison and he is my guard and he makes all the decisions, all the rules and does all the berating, criticizing and bullying. I am so tired of this cycle I could die but all the while, I want him here with me, shallowness and all. My God, what is wrong with me? Someone, please help. I am at the end of my rope in more ways than one. I just want to understand this pattern of abuse and why I allow it to happen to me.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 10:47pm

25. Iwonder says:

    Victim: I was once where you are. I was with my ex 2 years. He accused me of looking at guys and would flip out on me all the time. He controlled my every move. He would start fights as a reason to leave the house to cheat on my with another woman..in his head his cheating was justified. All the verbal assaults I took. I was the one who kicked him out when I found out about the cheating. I grieved for that month and wanted him to come back. I kept thinking of the honeymoon phase and desperately wanted that back. But, after away from him for awhile, I started to see the truth, accept the lies and started feeling like me again. Every month that passes, I feel more like myself. I think we crave for that honeymoon phase to return. . . but it never will. If you end it and distance yourself, you’ll see things differently. You’ll start to think about how you should be treated. All I have to do is think of the horrible things he did to me and I don’t want to go back there: He grabbed me by the throat spit in my face, called me a “wh%#!” took all my money, cheated, lied, all the time calling me “fiance” and telling me he loved me. You call that “love?”

    Sounds like a very unhealthy relationship spiraling downhill. Things will get worse. I would get out while I can. God doesn’t want us to suffer at the hands of people who claim to love us. If this man truly loved you, he would not treat you that way. Period. And, you are not loving yourself and want to die. Over what? Him? Is he worth it??

    Maybe you can tell him you think you need time alone to get some distance. Also, if you do get the courage to leave, I wouldn’t jump into a new relationship right away.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 11:29pm

26. Jen2008 says:

    Victimx, You need to immediately go NO CONTACT with this guy. No answering the phone, the door, just cut him out of your life RIGHT NOW. You are in the grips of sociopathic manipulation and the ONLY way to break free and get your head clear is to cease absolutely all contact with him, no matter how difficult it might be.

    Also google stockholm syndrome and traumatic bonding and read up on it–lots of websites have good information on it–and that will help you get a bit of understanding as to why you might feel “attached” or “bonded” to this sonofabitch. But breaking that bond will be one of the most difficult things you have ever done. (and the bond is NOT dependent on just “love” feelings, but can also still be there even if you’ve developed some feelings of hate).

    Unfortunately, you are probably right that he will attempt to come back once he has done whatever it is he is doing because he will assume he has you under such control that it doesn’t matter how he treats you, he can always return when he gets in the mood to do so. BUT if you go no contact, and that means literally NO CONTACT, because even one phone call that you answer will leave yourself open to being manipulated by him again. You don’t have to really understand at this point WHY, just understand that regardless of why, you are still very susceptible to him, thus the need to take no calls, do not open the door to him, just cease contact.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 11:37pm

27. Jen2008 says:

    Victimx, If you have not already done so, you really should also see both your Doctor and also a therapist and discuss your suicide attempts, and get help with your depression. A good support system can help you in coping with your feelings. And keep posting at Lovefraud, and vent your feelings and doubts here. We understand as we’ve been there too.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 11:54pm

28. OxDrover says:

    Dear Victimx,

    I’m sorry you have been in such agony for so long, but you have made a step in the right direction, you have acknowledged what your “boyfriend” (for lack of a better word) is and that is the first and biggest and hardest step.

    We can’t change them, or the way they treat us, and they don’t want to change how they treat us. The best thing we can do is to get away from them, out of the chaos and insanity that they have mad eour reality into.

    You do not deserve to be treated this way, to be cursed, blamed and belittled. No one who loves you would treat you this way.

    Learning about how they act (almost by the sociopath’s play book) willgive you knowledge and knowledge will give you power and strength. YOU CAN DO IT. Jen’s suggestion of NO CONTACT AT ALL, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZERO, absolutely no contact, no phone, no mail, no answering the door is the way to escape and will lead you to sanity and peace. It will be a long hard struggle, I admit that, but it is WORTH IT TO BE FREE. YOU ARE worth it. God bless you.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Sunday, 12 October 2008 @ 11:57pm

29. victimx says:

    I sincerely thank all of you for your advice and I know I should have zero contact with him but there is a part of me that “thinks” I need him and I know in my heart, if he would call right now and ask me to come back, I probably would. I would do it knowing full well that the cycle will happen again and again. What is wrong with me? I attempted suicide and this last time I almost succeeded. I want to live. I have four wonderful, successful children and a beautiful grandchild. Somehow he takes all that away from me, tells me I am fat, ugly, sick, crazy, etc. I am not those things but I am controlled by him and I don’t want to be. I am in counselling and my counsellers very words were: “Some day I want to seer you walking down the street and when I talk to you I want you to tell me that the SOB is out of your life and you will never let anyone in this world treat you like crap ever again”. I want to get there, you have no idea how badly I want to get there but this “hold” he has on me is absolutely blowing my mind. I used to be strong, determined and confident and now I am afraid to speak a sentence, make a move for fear of reprisal from this jerk. What is wrong with me and moreso, how to I get away and STAY away?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 12:44am

30. OxDrover says:

    Dear Victim X,

    Your question “how do I get away and STAY AWAY?”

    You start with saying NO CONTACT. Then if you want to contact him, you come here, you call a friend, you hide in your closet and pray, you put duct tape over your mouth so you won’t answer the phone, you nail your feet to the floor, you stay home with all the blinds down, you hire a goon to smack your hand if you reach for the phone when he calls. You have a concerete storm shelter installed in your yard and the door welded shut—you do whatever you have to do to keep yourself safe. (Some of that is a joke, but I am not making fun of your pain) I think everyone here can tell you how difficult it is to go NO CONTACT, you are like an addict wanting a FIX. You know that ifyou get a fix you will die, but your brain wants it anyway, so you do whatever you have to do to STAY SOCIOPATH FREE. Once you “sober up” (and you will) you can start to heal, but as long as you are “mainlining” there is no hope that you can quit, or get out of the relationship. It is just like with AA or NA you have to stay 100% away from the “substance of choice” (in this case the man).

    I CAN TELL YOU IT IS TOUGH, BUT IT IS WORTH IT!!!!!

    You have acknowledged that you have let this person have power and control over your life and that doing that is making you try to hurt yourself. If you want to live for your lovely children and grand child, do it for them. I’m not trying to “guilt” you (ok, well I am I guess) but if you commit suicide do you have any idea how that will HURT THEM? If that is the only thing that will keep you from harming youself, or going back to this man, then USE THAT. Use anything that you can, but CHOOSE TO LIVE. My sociopaths were my own blood family, I had to cut myself off from them in order to live, I CHOSE TO LIVE and I am so glad I did. God bless and keep you, X. I will keep you in my prayers.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 1:12am

31. victimx says:

    Thank you so much OxDrover, for the advice. Believe me, I want to be free of him but at this point, he is still in control. I am trying so hard to break away. My childtren HATE him, my friends HATE him, etc. Everyone around me thinks I am totally insane and I am. I taught school for 30 years and worked with children of abuse, etc. and God knows I know what abuse is and he is it but I never realized the strength and power and deceript of a sociopathic person. I have been manipulated, controlled and abused and I let him do it knowing he was doing it. That is what floors me. Am I that stupid, to let a redneck jerk hit me, bruise me, walk over me, abandom me and criticize me to everyone I know? This man left me to die, literally walked over me and I let him. Something is wrong with me to let a person do that. I have taken many children into my own home to give them stability, support, love and guidance because they were hurting so terribly. I told them all the things you are telling me. Some of those precious children are dead or in prison or mental institutions and I hurt for them so badly. I think about them all the time and I want to help myself but I can’t. I almost feel like I just don’t deserve to be saved because I allowed this scumbag into my life and he ruined it. I feel isolated, alone, confused, betrayed and lied to. What or how do I go forward; My heart is broken, my life is in shambles because of this man. He has taken my home, my self respect, my dignity and honor, my money and most importantly the respect of my children. They look at me, shake their heads and get angry with me because I continue to allow him in my life. I don’t know which way to turn or what to do. I feel so unimportant and lowly and as insignificant as a dead ant!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 1:32am

32. OxDrover says:

    Dearest Victimx,

    You keep telling me how POWERLESS YOU ARE, and that is NOT TRUE. You are as powerful as YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE. You must change your BELIEFS. You CAN change them.

    You are not any more “stupid” than the rest of us were/are, you have been gullible, and you have allowed him to abuse you, but YOU CAN STOP WHEN YOU ARE READY TO.

    YOU CAN TAKE BACK YOUR POWER. YOU ARE ABLE TO TAKE BACK YOUR POWER.

    YOU CAN FORGIVE YOURSELF FOR ALLOWING ALL THIS.

    I am 61 years old, and I have been the victim of Ps and toxic enablers my entire life. I am a smart, competent, outgoing, caring, kind good woman and I have allowed these people to use and abuse me over and over and over, some for years, and some for less time, but I’ve NEVER BEEN TRULY P-FREE my entire life. I lived it trying to do good, and trying to please God and please my mother and please my sons and on and on.

    They used me like a roll of toilet paper until I was near the end, nothing left but the cardboard center. I was literally in fear of my life (they tried to kill me) but I FINALLY GOT IT, I AM WORTH LIFE, I can take back my POWER.

    I HAVE DONE IT AND SO CAN YOU. I don’t care how “stupid” or how “low” or “worthless” you think you are, or how “embarassed” at yourself you are for “being stupid” you HAVE A CHOICE, LIVE OR DIE.

    I can’t make that choice for you, YOU MUST MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR YOUSELF. I can’t save you, YOU MUST SAVE YOURSELF.

    Remember when you were in labor with your children? How it hurt and how you wanted it to be over immediately but you had to go through the labor yourself? No one could do it for you, you had to do it for yourself. You can “give birth” to a NEW YOU, a you that is WORTHWHILE, that is WORTHY, but you have to PUSH AND PUSH and it hurts to push, and you have the choice to lay there and NOT PUSH and DIE. There is no physician that can do a “C-section” for a new birth for YOU. You have to do it yourself. I can, and the others here on love fraud can, be your COACH, but we can’t go through the labor. We can and will hold your hand, encourage you, support you, wipe the sweat off your brow, give you sips of water, but YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MUST GO THROUGH THE LABOR.

    I hope and I PRAY that you will choose life, that you will not let this DEMON destroy you, will not let him bring sorrow to your loved ones by them seeing that you have allowed him to take your life from you. Do not let this “addiction” to this man deprive your children and your grandchildren of the mother and grandmother that THEY DESERVE. Or you of the LIFE that you DESERVE.

    You can do it, but you must CHOOSE to do it.

    Read here, read all the articles in the archives. There is one I wrote a couple of months ago (can’t remember the exact date) on FORGIVIING YOURSELF FOR BEING HUMAN, forgiving yourself for allowing the abuse and making errors in judgment etc. Read that article as wellk, and FORGIVE YOURSELF. Learn to love yourself again. Peace, love and prayers.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 12:28pm

33. victimx says:

    Dear OxDrover,

    Thank you so much for your words of wisdom and of support. I don’t want to die but I don’t want to live like this either. I feel powerless to do anything about it. I had finally gotten enough of being hurt about a month ago and I made a phone call to his emoloyers about his behaviors and he may loose his job. Now, I am letting him make me feel horrible guilt for doing this. I do regret it, I shouldn’t have taken out revenge against him but I did and I do regret it and now he has even more power over me because of this. I know I allow it but I don’t know how to not allow it. What do I do? I am in turmoil.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 1:13pm

34. kerisee04 says:

    Victimx:
    Does he ever feel regret for any of the ways in which he has hurt you? Have you ever bruised him? Have you ever walked on him? Have you ever made him feel any kind of REAL emotion? He will NEVER return to you the love you have given away to him.

    He knows exactly where to push your button. You have to hide that button from him, and the ONLY way to do that is to NOT TALK TO HIM.

    He is NOT where life is at. You cannot define yourself or your life by him. I remember helping my husband to disengage himself from his ex-wife, and he was even in love with me at the time. It was still hard for him. Extremely hard.

    You cannot help a sociopath. They cannot help you. If you’re depressed, get on antidepressant drugs, join a support group, find a family member or friend. You’re starting out by posting here, and I thank you for that. You raised your children. You’re not done with them, and they aren’t done with you. You can get rid of this dark cloud in your life. The less you allow him into your life, the sooner he’ll tire of hurting you. DON’T LET HIM TAKE ONE MORE OUNCE OF YOUR SELF-WORTH! It’s not his, and he’ll never appreciate it. It’s YOUR self-worth. You’re worth way more than that.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 1:56pm

35. OxDrover says:

    Dear VictimX,

    What you did may have been for the “wrong reason” (revenge) but does it make any of what you said to his employers any less valid? NO!!! The hurt that they do to us, the injury, has a normal response of wanting to hurt them back. That is NORMAL. It isn’t good, but it is NORMAL. Now, GET OVER IT, quit the guilt. JUST QUIT IT! You can do it.

    You regret that you did it (that is repentence) and you will not do it again. Good. Now you no longer have to feel guilty about it. Go back in the archives and find the article I wrote about “forgiving yourself for being human”—I too have hurt people, even people I loved and that loved me BECAUSE I WAS IN SUCH PAIN I STRUCK OUT—I couldn’t fully heal until I FORGAVE MYSELF and quit feeling guilty for the past. You cannot change the past and you can’t change the future, you can only CHANGE TODAY, THIS MINUTE, THIS SECOND. So change TODAY. Just ONE DAY AT A TIME. Make today a good day, forgive yourself because you struck out in your pain.

    You are right YOU ARE LETTING HIM “MAKE” YOU FEEL TERRIBLE GUILT. But you CAN STOP THAT. You must take back your power for him to control your feelings. YOU CAN DO IT. YOU CAN DO IT BY JUST “DOING IT”—SAYING IT, BELIEVING IT. As long as you BELIEVE he can control you, he can control you, and the VERY MOMENT YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN TAKE BACK YOUR POWER, You can DO IT. It is all about what you BELIEVE.

    I spent time in Africa years ago as a wild life photographer and I have seen people who BELIEVED that a “witch” could put a spell on them and that they would die, do JUST THAT because THEY BELIEVED IT. I do not believe a witch can put a spell on me and make me die, so their “spells” have NO POWER OVER ME. It is all about what we BELIEVE.

    God bless you and start TO BELIEVE IN YOURSELF and you will HAVE POWER. YOUR POWER. TAKE IT BACK!!!! (((HUGS))))

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 2:08pm

36. Stargazer says:

    VictimX:
    I have nothing to add to the very sage advice you have received already. I just want to point out that your express yourself very beautifully through writing. Keep writing! I hope one day you will be on the other side of this, and maybe you will write a book that will help others.

    You have taken the first step in admitting that you want to break the addiction. In my opinion, the next thing to do is to pray, whether you believe in God or not. Pray as if you believed with all your heart that God exists and he/she will help you. Pray for the right supports to come into your life to help you. I wish there were rehab centers for people recovering from sociopaths. But since there aren’t, you will have to create your own personal rehab center. Maybe there is a support group in your area for victims of domestic abuse. And by all means, keep blogging with us!

    NO CONTACT!!! I cannot stress this enough.
    Hugs,
    StarG

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 13 October 2008 @ 2:56pm

37. Sabinne says:

    It’s amazing. Anyone of you could be me. I felt so alone with this; I am so grateful that I found this site.

    I would post my story, but honestly, reading your stories is almost exactly like reading my own. All of you give me the strength I need to get through this. You are all kindred spirits.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 3:42pm

38. OxDrover says:

    DEar Sabinne,

    Glad you found this site, and it is a healing place! I’m sorry you “qualify” for membership in our “club” but at the same time, if you qualify then you NEED TO BE HERE….looking back over this older thread, I see the names of people who came here months ago, and are no longer posting here (I don’t know if they are still reading here) and I wonder where they are, did they finally get free of their Ns and Ps and are they still working on learning and healing.

    I won’t tell you the road to healing is smooth and bump free, because it isn’t. It is learning about them, and learning about ourselves, and why we allowed them to abuse us for so long. The road to Healing is a fearful place sometimes, and may feel lonely,, but come here and read and learn and when the night seems so dark and you seem so alone, you will know you are NOT alone, and that there is comfort, understanding and support here in this healing place. Welcome! Hope you stay around a while. ((((hugs))))) and God bless you.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 4:06pm

39. keeping_faith says:

    Last night I started to write some thoughts directly related to this subject. I’m not sure if this makes sense to anyone else, but I look at it a little differently that just depression. I don’t doubt that depression is part of it all but it seems to me that it’s more about our heads (and reason) catching up with our hearts. That fog is so think in the beginning and nothing NOTHING can clear it but time. Just bear with me for a moment:

    Last night I started writing down what I knew about the S/P in the beginning and all the reasons I loved him. He was:

    dedicated
    loyal
    a military hero of sorts
    protective
    affectionate
    desireable
    treated me well
    took me places
    wanted my time
    hard working
    thought I was beautiful and friendly to all people

    Then I wrote down from month five to month twenty…..all the things he did that defy all that I knew about him, all the times he ditched me, abused me, argued with me for silly reasons:

    cheated on me several times
    lied about military background
    told many stories of torture and being a diving and explosives expert….all lies.
    he wasn’t protective he was controlling and angry. He threw me out of a hotel room to drive home 3 1/2 hours alone after midnight.
    made plans and stood my up often, including flights to several places on vacation. On one occassion he went and took another woman.
    left me often for days at a time.
    He wasn’t hard working. Everything he has was given to him or won in law suits.
    He hated that I was friendly and accused me of sleeping with everyoone I spoke to. In front of my children he called my lesbian friend a dyke, because he was even angry about my relationship with her. He deleted male contacts from my work cell
    he was verbally abusive…..and on and on and on.

    So you see……all of the negatives should negate all the good things, but they don’t right away. it’s like we wanted so badly to see what we saw initially that our heads are spinning from the farse, the mask, the deceit, that we can’t compehend the gap between the initial person that we want so badly and the abusive, pathalogical lying person. WILL THE REAL SLIM SHADY PLEASE STAND UP?????? Then we beat ourselves up for not seeing it sooner and letting go earlier.

    I don’t think it’s so unusual for us to feel all that we do and want what we had and because we want it so badly we made excuses when all the negative stuff occurred. We wanted that guy to go away……..but he never does. It doesn’t matter which is real, they both are, neither are. The bad one is REALLY BAD. We jsut need to realize that earlier next time and not let them cross the good solid boundaries we put in place.

    ANd we need to forgive……ourselves.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 5:03pm

40. Sabinne says:

    OxDrover,

    Thank you for your support. My family and friends have no idea what this is like. They don’t understand and actually blame me. I know I bear responsibility for allowing something I knew was unhealthy to continue, but it doesn’t make it any easier to accept. I still feel like a stab victim that doesn’t heal. My soul feels like it’s going to bleed out of my body soon.

    Today is kind of bad, but not nearly as bad as some days have been. It’s the kind of day that I’m simply too busy to break down. If given the opportunity, I would probably sit and weep in the bathroom again.

    I feel like screaming.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 5:20pm

41. Matt says:

    Sabinne:

    Welcome. You’re in the right place. I came in from the cold 3 months ago.

    People here are from all walks of life, gay, straight, men, women, every profession you can think of. So, you can be sure you’ll get some really balanced perspective on things.

    If you log onto another post you’ll find that several of us have been advising another member of the club on her filing a complaint with her congressman’s office.

    Point is, you don’t need to censor yourself here. Trust me when I say collectively we’ve done it all and seen it all with the sociopaths we had in our lives. Or put it another way, been there, done that, have the T-shirt to prove it.

    You may be grappling with how the hell he did this to me? I wrote a post in December entitled “Criminal Defense Attorney Falls for Sociopath”. Other members have told me I wrote the playbook on how these creatures operate. You might find it helpful. Also, read “Without Conscience” and “The Betrayal Bond.”

    In any case, read, read, read. Knowledge is power.

    And yes, we can all relate to family, friends etc not understanding and blaming us. And yes, we can all definitely relate to feeling like screaming.

    Hang in there. It gets better.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 6:38pm

42. keeping_faith says:

    Sabinne,

    The XS/P also led a double life…..triple maybe. I can relate. When I realized all the lies, it hit me like a ton of bricks. How long since you had contact? I’t been over a year for me.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 7:17pm

43. Sabinne says:

    Thank you all so much. It’s been almost two months since I spoke to him. Let me say that’s not because of him. I actually didn’t ask him to explain anything to me; it would be a lie anyway.

    I did ask him if he would agree to stay out of my life. I only asked him for this because he likes to come back over and over to bleed me dry. He would not answer my texts or acknowledge my request in any form or fashion. He also knows that this is like twisting the knife in me by negating my existence and the fact that he has destroyed my life means anything to him, because it doesn’t. He enjoyed all of it. I know because I broke into his voice mail (I wanted to know if there were more women than me and the woman I found). He would keep my voicemails so that he could listen to me beg him to please leave me alone; to set me free. I would delete them and they would be back there the next day. He was enjoying them.

    I didn’t know what he was at the time. I couldn’t understand someone who would love to watch another person suffer so much pain. It puzzled me that anyone could do that to a person. I sat down to research the kind of people that lead double lives. I found so much information and eventually, I found all of you.

    Knowing what he is helping me, but sometimes it’s so hard to keep going, but I do it. I even forced myself to start dating again. Yes, I know it won’t work, but it keeps me from sitting and crying all night. It distracts me from my pain. It keeps me from smoking (which I’d given up years ago) and from thinking about the same things over and over.

    I only want the day to come when I don’t think of him anymore.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 10:43pm

44. Savannah says:

    Hi Everyone,
    I’ve been reading here for at least a year and it’s a healing place. (I have just read the new “Bargaining” article and that’s my life right now, will tell the story later). I just came across this article/thread and started reading the posts and I’m wondering if “kim” is ok. She is the last post in January 08. It seems nothing was said to her and I felt compelled to say to her if she is still reading that it will get better and I hope she is ok and to stay here with us.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Monday, 16 February 2009 @ 11:57pm

45. OxDrover says:

    Dear Savannah,

    There are so many people that come here and post and then “disappear” off the blog and I wonder where they are, and how they are. Some, I am sure, go back to their P to “give it another try” they walk back into the FOG. I imagine there are 1000 “reasons” they never come back here, though some will go away for a while and then come back and say “Hey, I went back, it didn’t work, and I’m back to recover”

    I pray for all these people and for their safety and happiness and healing. The road to Healing is a tough road, and it is a lifelong journey, not a destination. At first it is filled with broken glass and deep pits and ruts and mud and stones, but as you traverse the road, it will get smoother, and you have companions here who know the road, to hold your hand and to support you. That’s why LF is such a healing place, the wonderful and supportive and accepting people here.

    When the going gets tough, come here—night or day—there is usually someone here who will post back before long. Good for you for being NC and for learning and reading. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER and we have to take back our power.

    Glad you are here and thanks for posting!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 12:17am

46. Sabinne says:

    Thank you, None. I’ll try to keep that in mind.

    I honestly can’t see the forest for all the damn trees right now. I try to tell myself that what I feel is normal and that it will not always be like this. Over and over in my head when I start to cry or be upset, I tell myself that it’s not always going to be this way, not always, one day this will stop, one day I’ll wake up and never even think of this again.

    It’s how I made it past other difficult times in my life.I sure as hell hope it works this time too.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 12:55am

47. Rune says:

    Sabinne: Keep breathing and knowing that in every exhale you breath out the toxins and in every inhale you breath in your new future.

    So many of us have been through something like your experience. No one can know exactly what you are going through, but the sociopaths tend to have similar ways of operating. Because no one prepared us for this, each of us has crawled our way to this website from some place of inconceivable damage.

    Hang in there. To feel devastated, overwhelmed, and all those other words, is normal. And this is survivable. And you have found a community that can understand.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 1:15am

48. OxDrover says:

    Dear Sabinne,

    I second what Rune says, and it WILL pass, it just is like the labor of child birth, when you are in labor and in pain, you feel like each second is unbearable and it will never pass, never end, but I promise you it WILL and in the end, if you hang in there and breathe and push, you wil “give birth” to a NEW YOU, a better you, a better life for the future.

    Learning about the psychopaths and how they are, and also learning about yourself, why you were vulnerable to the fantasy they presented will help you heal.

    If we don’t heal our own vulnerabilities, we end up getting involved with another one, just as I did, and many others here too. We have to keep repeating the lesson until WE GET IT RIGHT it seems. I took “remedial psychopath 101″ until I got it right, and I think I have finally at age 62 gotten it right now. I see the PATTERN in them, and the PATTERN in me, why I was vulnerable to them. I was a “slow learner” but you don’t have to be, so hang in there and read and learn.

    The people here have all suffered at the hands of these monsters, and we can validate you and support you, cause we have had similar experience(s) in our own life. Thre are people here on every level of the healing road, some just stepped on, and some have “Post Doctoral Studies” and others are in kindergarden, but we all support each other and that’s the great thing in this community. I’m glad you are here.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:48am

49. Sabinne says:

    Rune: This is the best place that I could have ever found. I wish I’d known to look two years ago; I could have saved myself so much trouble. The fact is that I didn’t know what he was. I knew something was wrong, but I couldn’t figure out what it was. Somehow, I have to figure out a way to stop these people or if not stop them, then make a warning system.

    Has anyone ever thought about writing Oprah?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:19am

50. greenfern says:

    Dr Leedom said:

    “Sociopaths increase helplessness in victims by their exploitive care-taking behavior that is disguised as love”

    Bingo!
    I struggle with this concept a lot. Just putting 2 and 2 together with the help of my therapist. I did not understand that he was a s when I first entered therapy, not much after splitting with the s. I kept thinking how can he be such a monster in my mind? He helped with so many things, unsolicited. The last year of the relationship I barely did anything, he took everything out of my hands. When I did do some stuff, he would correct it or redo it. Then he projected it onto me. He purposly burned thanksgiving dinner that I was preparing and said “you think that I can’t do anything right” Total mind game.

    Now that I am on my own, I realize that I am actually better than average to take care of things myself. I can put up shelves, I can patch walls etc…

    I think I fell for the unsolicited help of the s is because all my life previous to meeting him I had to do everything on my own. I had no help from my parents or anyone. I probably subconsciously wished that I could have a partner who can sometimes share the burden. The s picked up on this vulnerable aspect of me.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:55am

51. Tood says:

    Greenfern:

    Exactly! I too had always been the one to take care of business. If you read “Women Who Love Psychopaths,” you find that many of us have the qualities of “natural leaders.” People look to us to solve problems, make decisions, or manage in a crisis.

    Some of us had a lifetime of this. And when the S/P showed up with all his/her “confidence” and what looked to us like the counterpoint to OUR nature, we exhaled and let go. We, perhaps for the first time in our lives, relaxed and let someone else take the reins. I know that’s what happened in my case.

    I read long ago about a study of successful women and why they had such trouble finding good relationships. The study found that women preferred men just a bit higher than they themselves were in dominance, and the higher up the ladder a woman is, the smaller the sample of available men. That is what made us so vulnerable to these con artists and soul-rapists.

    We thought we were getting our soulmates, but what we were getting was our own reflection contained within a hollow shell called the psychopath.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 12:31pm

52. greenfern says:

    Maybe I should check into that book about Women Who Love Psychopaths.

    I am kind of put off by the title. I would rather read a title as Women Who Were Once Involved with a Psychopath and Trying to Put It Behind Them.

    But regardless, it might be good reading.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 1:39pm

53. CautionaryTale says:

    “We were only together for six months, because when the money ran out, he was gone. While I was out of town, he took off, and moved a lot of the possessions (which I paid for) out of the house.

    I had to declare bankruptcy, my good credit was ruined, and I lost an apartment that I had paid for – as he convinced me to take out a mortgage on my apartment & he would invest the money for me, and I would get an excellent return on the money.

    I was too devastated to pursue the guy in a civil law suit, and am trying to move on with my life – this happened almost 9 years ago, but still remains fresh in my memory as though it were only yesterday.”

    I went through a very similar experience 10+ years ago with a man who came recommended by my church’s pastor. My kids adored him until, as you can guess, the day we married and the mask slipped. Cops turned a blind eye to domestic physical abuse and property damage.

    He gleefully destroyed my good credit as well as my business (among other things, making impossible promises which I only learned about when customers complained). A civil suit would never have born fruit because he owns nothing of value. I felt doubly victimized being denied help in holding him accountable.

    Naturally, my efforts to warn his then-current victim were to no avail. She lost 2 homes and even served time after he planted drugs in her house. Did I ever dodge a bullet there!

    I did get caught up in the “why” but eventually decided I’d rather not understand because, not only would it take me down to his level of thinking, it was a waste of my time. Hateful is as hateful does and I am not that.

    Though I hardly ever think of him anymore, THE CONTINUING FINANCIAL AFTERMATH PERPETUATES MY EMOTIONAL TRAUMA.

    Depression rooted in PTSD is a natural and reasonable response to such an intimate encounter with Satan Incarnate. Major paradigm shift! Could this be why it’s so notoriously difficult to treat or to recover from?

    First I gave myself 3 years. Then 5. I thought that volunteering would help until I realized how many people scam THAT system and, among the volunteers themselves, kindergarten never ends.

    I made a mistake and though I forgive myself, I must live with the consequences. I no longer pressure myself to “get over it.” After watching CNBC “American Greed” and “House of Cards,” I’m even more OK with staying down until my foxhole is no longer under fire. They’re literally everywhere.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 1:55pm

54. Tood says:

    It’s a very validating book.

    I’m reluctantly coming to the conclusion that, once a person has been through what we here have been through, there is no “putting it behind you.” You learn so much about yourself, about life, about humanity, about good and evil, that you DO emerge from the experience a new and better person. You can’t forget it, but you can USE it and you can TRANSFORM yourself into something even better.

    You can definitely put THEM behind you, though. And the faster you do that, the better.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 1:55pm

55. Rune says:

    Greenfern: “Women Who Love Psychopaths” is the book that reassured me that I am OK, and he is not. The research is astounding: those of us who were targeted by these creatures share many qualities, and those qualities are very, very good.

    As you read the posts here in the LF community, you see compassion, cooperation, sincerity, concern, responsibility . . . and guess what! That’s WHY they picked us!!! We gave them great cover for their evil deeds. We were trusting and loyal . . .

    I found the book to be a major step in my own path to recovery.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 3:34pm

56. Rune says:

    Cautionary: I could have written what you said, except my experience was within the past four years, and I walked away two years ago.

    You said, “Though I hardly ever think of him anymore, THE CONTINUING FINANCIAL AFTERMATH PERPETUATES MY EMOTIONAL TRAUMA. Depression rooted in PTSD is a natural and reasonable response to such an intimate encounter with Satan Incarnate. Major paradigm shift! Could this be why it’s so notoriously difficult to treat or to recover from?”

    I wonder the same. I also watched “House of Cards,” astounded at the breathtakingly accurate portrayal of psychopaths operating in coordinated efforts to destroy what was fine and good. Some days I want to crawl into my foxhole and cover over the entrance, but I still hold out hope that as we educate others, we may be able to ease some of the pain and limit some of the damage. If I had only known then what I know now . . .

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 3:40pm

57. OxDrover says:

    Dear Cautionary,

    For what it is worth, I have been a serial victim (but mostly members of my own family were the Ps) but I have found that “healing” takes more than a little effort and a lot of work, self examination etc. I “got over” the early devestations but never really healed or examined what it was about ME that made me vulnerable to the next psychopath that came down the pike.

    Now I am not only resolving the pain and trauma (PTSD etc) ane the other devestation, but I am coming out of my fox hole, and “locking and loading” my defense mechanisms so that I no longer have to hide in the fox holes of life to avoid being “shot” or “targeted”—-I am putting on some ARMOR of Knowledge, belting it down with GOOD BOUNDARIES and good sense, and walking upright. I can’t fix them, but I can educate myself what it takes to defend yourself from these monster, what it takes to “see” them early on before they hurt you, etc.

    That is what LF has done for me, I have opened the wounds and cleaned out the infection, let it drain away with my tears, and the wound is healing all the way to the bone. I will not be a victim again! Knowledge=Power and I am taking back my power. I love, and I trust, but my love and my trust is not given away indiscriminately any more. No matter what the relationship is—did they give birth to me? Did I give birth to them? Doesn’t matter if they treat me with disrespect, I don’t need them. NC FOREVER!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 4:12pm

58. muldoon says:

    Hello everyone..just letting you know I am still socio free..9 weeks today, cant believe I have done it this long..things been quiet…the odd threat here and there but then two nights ago he began leaving sexually explicit voicemail, saying he was masterbating and wanting me, he said say the word Im there in ten mins,if he wasnt masterbating, he was doing a good impression…the full hit, heavy breathing, erotic language and some down right filth…dont know what to make of it…it was the babys birthday on the 14the he rang and said on way I said dont knock wont answer..and he did just leave a present and a card…the calls came three days later

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 4:56pm

59. Rune says:

    Muldoon: Keep those barriers up! Good for you. If he calls, don’t bother listening even to the voicemail. You know what it’s about, and you don’t need to hear it.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 5:13pm

60. CautionaryTale says:

    Education is a seemingly noble goal but, if it worked, the self-help industry would have put itself out of business and the world wouldn’t be facing catastrophe on increasingly multiple fronts.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 5:56pm

61. Elizabeth Conley says:

    Cautionary Tale:

    “I thought that volunteering would help until I realized how many people scam THAT system and, among the volunteers themselves, kindergarten never ends. ”

    ROFLMFAO Boy have I been there! Hang in there. There are decent people in the world.

    Personally, I’ve found that since I’ve become assertive and occasionally even cranky, people have been much more well behaved in my presence. Who knew? It seems counterintuitive!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 6:57pm

62. Sabinne says:

    I just found out today that my P has filed harrassment charges against me for some websites that I put up detailing what he is. They weren’t up for very long, in fact I took them down about two weeks after putting them up.

    I don’t know what to do. I live in Tennessee and he lives in New Jersey. I don’t have the money to fly up there and come to court. What am I going to do?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 8:01pm

63. Wini says:

    Sabinne: Good. Let him take you to court… on his dime. Then you can tell the truth in a court of law … detailing all the ruthless deeds he did to you.

    Peace sweetheart. This is great news.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 8:51pm

64. Wini says:

    Sabine, the sooner the courts realize they are criminals … that take advantage of us “Joe and Jane Average Citizen” the quicker it should be OUT of CIVIL court into CRIMINAL court were it belongs.

    My EX is a criminal. Instead of robbing banks with a gun to be possibly shot by a police officer, the coward dates and marries women and takes us for what we worked for. We are his business.

    I wished he’d take me to court. I’d shame all of them by speaking the truth of what this coward did to me.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 8:55pm

65. Sabinne says:

    He has me though. He told me I’d never get rid of him until I made him go away and so I did try to make myself a nuisance to him. Everything he has though is just me over and over asking him to let me go. He can’t let go of me, even this is a way of controlling me and forcing me back into his life.

    I am a poor student. I can’t afford all of this. Isn’t there a way to ask for a change of venue?

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 9:10pm

66. Matt says:

    Sabinne:

    Criminal law is generally a matter of state law. I’m assuming he swore out the complaint there. With respect to state criminal law cases they can’t be transferred out of state.

    That said, I would be highly surprised if he actually got a District Attorney’s Office that would be willing to prosecute a case like this. They’ve got more important things to do than chase someone half-way across the country on a non-violent felony. Are you sure he isn’t just jacking you around?

    Most colleges and universities have lawyers on staff that deal with students that have run afoul of the law. I’d go ask the Dean’s Office or STudent Affairs Office what they can do for you.

    Also, you said something that I think you need to do a little mental reframing about. You said “just me over and over asking him to let me go.”

    I think you need to take you power bac k. Draw a line in the sand and say “I’ve given him his marching papers and not letting him back into my life.” Try it. YOu may find it empowering.

    I’m speaking from experience here. I was a basket case by the time I drove m S off. Still don’t know where I found the strength. Best thing I ever did for myself mentally and physically.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:00pm

67. Stargazer says:

    Sabinne,
    I don’t think you have kids with him, so you’re lucky. I would cut off every avenue that gives him contact with you. Change your phone number and email address and stay off internet forums he is likely to find you at. If he continues to find ways to harass you the police should definitely be involved. As far as his harassment suit against you, will you have to show up in court somewhere? Whatever you do, don’t get emotional. Simply give the facts of what happened and what he did. Give dates and times whenever possible. Present a solid poker face if you have to be around him, and don’t reveal any feelings. This is the best way to deal with a S until you can have total NC.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:17pm

68. Sabinne says:

    Look, I know my weaknesses and he was one of them. He told me flat out that he would never leave my life unless I made him. At the time when I was asking him to stay out of my life it was the best thing for me. Otherwise, he’d show up at my door one day, leave notes on my car or start calling me again. I could not live waiting for the other shoe to fall and it would fall someday. I thought if I forced him to give me up or made myself too much of a bother, then he’d gladly give me up.

    I was stupid. I didn’t know what he was. I didn’t know how much fun this is for him and that controlling me was such a game for him. Even now that he can’t control my life directly, he’s using this to do it indirectly.

    I live in another state and I have to go to court. I can’t even afford the airfare. I’ll have to sell my pearls or something.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:27pm

69. Wini says:

    Hi Matt, StarG and Sabinne.

    Sabinne, I know you’ve only been with us for a short while, but, one thing you will notice in the majority of our blogs is THEY DON’T SPEND THEIR MONEY ON ANYTHING BUT THEMSELVES. So, I don’t seriously if he’d ever hire and attorney, never mind pay the attorney for his time.

    Matt, I’m glad you are blogging with us to help with the basic legal advise. You know Matt, I think this venue would be your new career … fighting for our rights.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:29pm

70. Wini says:

    Sabinne. Go out and buy yourself some heavy duty BUG spray.

    Keep the can out so every time you look at it, it will remind you of what a PEST he is.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:31pm

71. Stargazer says:

    Wini, after all these months of blogging, your new hip hop user name finally popped into my head. Win-E. LOL (Get it? StarG, OxD, etc.)

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:37pm

72. Wini says:

    StarGeeZeee, I’m glad you are getting your sense of humor back. That’s the best part of the healing process.

    Piece of Cake, piece of pie.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 10:43pm

73. Stargazer says:

    Win-E. My sense of humor never went away. It has saved my life.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:10pm

74. Wini says:

    StarG: I was so serious for 6 years during the turmoil with my bosses. It took years of healing from them … the peeling of an onion, one layer at a time.

    I remembered during that painful, painful time in my life … that all I wanted was my sense of humor back.

    I’m glad you never lost yours. For, humor is the best medicine.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:27pm

75. alohatraveler says:

    Wini,

    Bug Spray? Pest?

    I love it!

    Good one!

    )

    I am all about visual aides!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:34pm

76. Stargazer says:

    Win-E, the place I crack up the most is on the reptile site. It was non-stop fun over there. I miss it so much. We would start with a serious thread with snake talk and then start goofing around. It was like a party. We would all even have a drink together and get really silly. It sounds odd because it’s an internet forum. But I enjoyed it so much. I really haven’t found anything to fill the void. I can only hope that one day the sociopath slips up over there and somebody will expose him for the fraud that he is. Then maybe I could come back. I may also try to get my own site going some day.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:39pm

77. Wini says:

    StarG: Put in free blogs and see what comes up in your search engine. I know they are out there.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Tuesday, 17 February 2009 @ 11:58pm

78. Wini says:

    AlohaT: Long time no blog with. How are you? I see you come on once in a blue moon. Hope things are going better for you.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:06am

79. Stargazer says:

    WinE. I already know all the reptile forums, and the S is on most of them. The ones he’s not on, he will show up eventually.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:28am

80. Stargazer says:

    Anyway, the point is, it’s not just about any internet forum. Those were my friends. I have known them for 2 years. I knew them better than some of my real life friends. We have inside jokes. I am “Auntie Stargazer” to all their snakes. We have visited each other on occasion. You get the drift. It takes time to recreate that somewhere else. The S ripped all that away from me. I was hoping to be part of that community for life.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:30am

81. Stargazer says:

    I am really grieving for the loss of that site. There is nothing out there that can replace the friends I have come to know and love for 2 years. I hope I can go back some day.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:31am

82. Wini says:

    I hear you StarG: Maybe, just maybe his computer will crash (LOL) … and he won’t have anyone in his life that is will lend them their computer or buy him a new one (LOL).

    Just a thought (LOL).

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:38am

83. Stargazer says:

    LOL, Wini. I haven’t given up hope on him somehow sabotaging himself. As con artists go, he’s a really stupid one. You know I’d miss this site too if I had to leave.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:43am

84. Wini says:

    StarG: You can always get another handle and log on without anyone knowing it is you. This way, you still get to chat and your EX has no clue it’s you.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:57am

85. Stargazer says:

    But I don’t want to see HIM there. That’s the point. If I see him playing my friends, I will want to shoot him.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 12:59am

86. Wini says:

    StarG: Then pray. That’s all I can suggest. God doesn’t like when these fools prey on his children. That’s the thing … we want instant gratification … but, it’s on God’s time frame … is when God steps in and throws their entire MOs into smitherines. Some times we get to witness it, other times God insures we are sheltered from it. I got to witness what happened to the majority of the game players against us at work. It was incredible. Even my EX couldn’t believe I got to witness all those bosses demotions and early retirements … and told they no longer can be employed there … ever again. As for the managers that got demoted … they no longer can oversee employees. They have a job, but not on a managerial level and absolutely, positively can no longer supervise or manage another to be able to hurt anyone else’s career.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 1:15am

87. Stargazer says:

    Actually, the tactic I’m going to take is to do everything within my power to help the case along. Then I’m going to try to forget about it. I just want him out of my mind. I especially don’t want that slime ball ruining my prayers. I have seen some bad people get their karmic due. But I’ve seen it work the other way too. My parents, for instance, should have gone to prison but they never did. I prayed and prayed as a child for my mother to leave my abusive stepfather. She never did. Sometimes praying has helped, Wini. Sometimes it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, I’m not gonna lie.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 1:33am

88. Wini says:

    StarG. Just maybe, maybe God had your mom stay with your stepfather for reasons that you will never know. It may NOT have seemed right in your eyes … but there is more to every situation and maybe it would have been worse for both your mom and step dad if they did separate.

    Peace.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 1:41am

89. Stargazer says:

    Wini,
    You are saying that things could have been worse if my mother had left the sociopath? I doubt it. She was certainly capable of supporting us on her own. But she is a narcissist and very co-dependent. She would rather be in a bad relationship where her kids were being abused that be without a man. I think you are thinking in terms of normal, loving parents. Mine were not like that.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 9:05pm

90. Stargazer says:

    P.S. I have now had two members of my reptile site emailing and messaging me. Apparently, they are talking about my leaving on one of the threads over there. One of the members told me the bad person hasn’t posted there since the 14th and he thinks it’s safe to come back. I think otherwise. I hear he has a second user name on there with the same IP address. So he is probably pretending he is someone else. This is gonna be hard. I know a lot of people are gonna start begging me to come back. And it will be very tempting. I may be able to use my popularity as leverage to have one of the moderators kick him off the site. It would be great. But I’m not counting on it. Besides, he could always come back under a different IP address. This just sucks. I miss my “family” there so much.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 @ 9:24pm

91. Is opn says:

    Stargazer: I am sorry about this situation with your favorite website.

    A few months ago, I joined a singles site, never did that before and never will again. But after being on there for a while I would get these IM’s from this one guy, who would say strange things, such as my ex S would in a sorted way. He made reference to having had a wife who they had a loss of a child and she tried to stab him in the back blaming him. Once he said this I knew it was him. How sick. To get to me. To get me off of the site. He had a picture posted of someone else. But I am almost sure it was him. I never again answered his IM’s.
    The next week he had a new photo, a new name, and a child pictured with him, to seem to be the legit. I talked with this new one a few times by IM, and when he tripped up and said his daughter, he told me earlier he had only one child it was a boy. I called him on it and told him to get lost I knew it was him. I no longer wanted to be there.

    I understand the frustration and violation you are feeling.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Thursday, 19 February 2009 @ 12:58am

92. Sabinne says:

    I’m driving home from work this evening when it hit me all over again. He was sleeping with another woman the entire time. He used me and now he’s trying to destroy my life. How can he do this to me?

    I know it’s because of what he is, but it’s so horrible, painful and unfathomable. There are days when my mind won’t wrap around it; when my heart breaks over and over again. I can’t wait for this to be over.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 6:56pm

93. learnthelesson says:

    Sabinne – How did you find out that he filed harrassment charges? Did HE inform you? Because I would seriously consider the source if thats the case. I actually read somewhere about a case where the same thing happened and the judge ordered the victim to remove the website. I agree with whoever said that its unlikely anyone would take the case. Timeframe, different locals, credibility and the fact that the site no longer even exists! No Contact. No Contact. No Contact. Its so hard to wrap our minds around everything. But the first step is simply removing yourself from any contact or information. He cant ruin your life when is unable to be in control of informing you of anything in anyway. I actually am at the point where I feel so sorry for the other women in his life. And Im so glad Im no longer one of his pawns/puppets. Gain back control and dont allow any contact – make it be over – because you want it to be over. Your heart will break, your mind will be confused, but you will re-emerge with the help and support you reach out for. Even here at LF, everyone here has experienced the emotionally draining experience of an S/P. Eventually we start to heal – ever so slowly – when we commit to NO CONTACT.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 7:34pm

94. Sabinne says:

    learn,
    I received the notice from the court in the mail. I just don’t understand why he’s doing this really. I did take it all down, I haven’t contacted him and I won’t. I think it’s revenge for finding out the truth and then exposing it, but it’s overkill. He’s already done enough damage that sometimes I wonder if it’s ever going to be possible for me to ever be whole again.

    I know I’ll be smarter and stronger, but I don’t want to be. I want to be innocent, happy and loved. I will never be that now.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 8:02pm

95. learnthelesson says:

    Sabinne – Wow! Im really surprised he went that route. Unless the site really infuriated him – GOOD FOR YOU for EXPOSING THE TRUTH. Theres never anything wrong with the truth except in the eyes of a S/P! Once this is all behind you – you will be a whole new and improved version on YOU!

    Hey – how bout you’ll be smarter, stronger, happy AND LOVED by someone who is actually healthy and able to treat you with kindness and goodness. They are out there!!!!

    In the meantime, just follow the instructions on the notice. With any luck he will not pursue it further — maybe was just a scare tactic? Maybe you can even call the county clerks office and ask them how they suggest you handle harrassment charges against you from someone you believe to have a mental illness.

    Other than that, you have the best defense there is … the truth. You will absolutely get through this. Its just another way of him trying to have control over you. But HE CANT!!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 8:23pm

96. Sabinne says:

    The truth won’t help me in court. They don’t want to know why I did it, they just want to know if I did. That’s it. He has an arrest record for domestic violence and my attorney says that not even that matters.

    Funny, how the victims keep being victims and the perpertrators are able to destroy them over and over again.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 8:48pm

97. learnthelesson says:

    There are multiple sites on places like Facebook and elsewhere – posted by women who have been wronged and victimized by men whom they believe to be S/P’s. One even list numerous wives, girlfriends. Alias names the guy has used. Photos of the guy, etc. Somehow that might be able to add to your defense.. There must be something somewhere that allows the truth to be told by victims. Maybe seek another attorney who supports victims of S/P’s. I agree that its awful that the victims have to always be advocating for themselves. But dont let it discourage you. This too shall pass.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 8:56pm

98. Sabinne says:

    learn,

    I don’t think I’ll be getting out of this. I suppose all I can do is hope and keep breathing. I have no other options.

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 9:15pm

99. learnthelesson says:

    Sabinne, Im not sure if I agree with you. But time will tell. Who knows what will happen between now and then. Maybe he will end up in jail, or since you are do amazing by not reacting to it and contacting him, etc. perhaps he wont follow through (they are very well known for that!) I dont suppose that theres alot that will come out of it especially since you removed the site. Being hopeful and staying focused on your recovery from this ordeal will help you get out of whatever comes your way. Please keep giving updates. Hang in there!!

    (Report abusive comment)

    Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 9:21pm

100. Sabinne says:

     I would never contact him. I am hurt by realizing what he really is, but I’m not stupid. He enjoys this game and that’s about it. He loves watching me suffer and hurt. It’s what gives him pleasure. I simply have to get through this final torture and then I’ll be free. I’ll be broke, heart broken and afraid of love for the rest of my life.

     Sometimes I dread the future so much I want to shower with a hairdryer. I really have no hope sometimes.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 9:31pm

101. learnthelesson says:

     Sabinne – Well youre already stronger/wiser than I am! Because Im not sure I could have contained myself and not had some kind of reaction like what in the world are you doing Ahole!!!!! But you are further along in that area!!! Yep you just have to get through this final bout and then be finished with this chapter. You are already FREE!!! And Are you a fortune teller?? ) None of us can predict the future, so hold and sit tight – you may even be surprised – even 6mths to a year from now – you might look back and say look what I went through and how far Ive come! Something funny, for you, when I was little, my father had this thing about not turning the heat on in the house (he ran a local ice skating rink) and we think he enjoyed the temperature in the rink so much he wanted it at home, as well as wanting to save money. So my sister and I would literally sleep with our hairdryers on under our covers!!! ) Did you smile yet? ) Sabinne, I know how you feel, its seems so overwhelming and alot to deal with. But IT WILL GET BETTER. I felt the same way too. But we are getting through it day by day.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 9:49pm

102. Jen2008 says:

     Sabinne, Are you being charged with dmv-harrassment, misdemeanor? Of course, if it is being handled thru the DA’s office it is not costing the socio a penny as the tab is being picked up on his end by the taxpayers.

     Do you have any documentation in the form of saved voicemails or snailmail, such as notes, or any other documents that could be used as proof that what you alleged on the site is true? Or do you have anyone who could give sworn statements? If you do, I would certainly take that documentation with me as it might help your case. I would also go talk to a domestic violence advocate and see what they might advise you do in the way of preparing your defense as they might also have some good suggestions. I don’t know if Legal Aide handles things like this, but it seems to me it wouldn’t hurt to try to get some additional legal advice (a second opinon) to what your lawyer already told you.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 10:13pm

103. Sabinne says:

     I don’t know what the hell it is exactly. I think it’s a misdemeanor. I didn’t know he was doing this and I went through and deleted all traces of him from my life. I’m trying really hard to get some of the stuff back, but most of the stuff is simply unrecoverable.

     All I have are his police records to show that he’s violent, but my attorney said it won’t really help me. She says I should have filed a restraining order against him. I would have but it would have been useless. I really thought he was done making my life hell. If he wants to hurt me, no restraining order would stop him. He’d do it or get someone that owes him to. My door was almost kicked down the same I week I busted his scam open by some guy who lives less than an hour from him. According to my attorney this doesn’t matter either. The law is not on my side.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 11:06pm

104. OxDrover says:

     Dear Sabinne,

     First off ((((Hugs))))) BUT, you get a BOINK on the head for saying “I just want to shower with a hair dryer!” BOINK BOINK That’s three BOINKS for even thinking that way!!!! It is OK with me for you to have homicidal fantasies, but never suicidal ones! ((((hugs)))))

     Yes, yes, YES! They make us “crazy” and it IS ALL SO FREAKING UNFAIR, and HE IS THE ONE WHO DESERVES A REAL HONEST TO GOODNESS “BOINK” ON THE HEAD OVER AND OVER AND OVER WITH A REAL IRON SKILLET, NOT THE CYBER KIND!

     I do hope you have saved the voice mails and e mails or whatever evidence you can get together, and sounds to me like your attorney isn’t very empathetic…you might want ot seek anothe rone. Keep us POSTED, PLEASE! ((((hugs)))) and my prayers along with the BOINKS and as Jim said, “Say 10 Hail Oprahs and SIN NO MORE!”

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 11:15pm

105. Rune says:

     Sabinne: Any chance of the ACLU helping? As a matter of free speech? Especially given that he appears to be a real piece of work.

     This is when we really need to have “the system” educated about these losers. I am so sorry for your situation. I also agree that possible an advocate from the battered women’s shelter might be able to help.

     Hugs to you. If this is a misdemeanor, I’m sure it feels embarrassing, but you can just get on through it. Keep breathing. And know that we’re SO VERY MUCH on your side!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 11:23pm

106. Jen2008 says:

     Sabinne, Matt probably would have the answer to this, but wouldn’t you need an attorney in the same state where the case is to be tried so the attorney can accompany you to court? I agree with Oxy in that your attorney really sounds unempathetic and seems more geared in telling you what you shoulda woulda coulda done (past tense) instead of telling you how to prepare for the NOW. And for Gods sake, find out what the exact charges are!

     Every state is different, but my former state considered harrassment in a boyfriend/girlfriend case to be domestic violence harrassment, meaning if a conviction occured you would have a domestic violence conviction on your record. But even at that, even if you were convicted there were options for what the punishment could be and somehow or other if you agreed and met certain conditions, the charges would be removed from your record. I forget now what all the options were and exactly what this was called. But at any rate, you need a GOOD attorney on YOUR SIDE to help you explore your options. You don’t want a permanent domestic violence conviction showing up on your record forever. Hock something if you have to, but get yourself some good legal advice. That is my two cents worth.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 21 February 2009 @ 11:37pm

107. Sabinne says:

     Thanks for your suggestions and your support. I’m at a terrible disadvantage–all of this is in another state. He knows that and loves it. He loves that I have no one to help me and no money to buy help.

     I can’t talk about this anhymore right now. I’m in hell and he loves that. LOVES IT.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 22 February 2009 @ 12:05am

108. OxDrover says:

     DEar Sabinne (((((HUgs))))) hang in there! We are here for your support! Love and prayers. Oxy

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 22 February 2009 @ 12:44am

109. Rune says:

     Sabinne: I had an ex, who I now know to be an S/P, who sued me for child support in a different state, and he used an address that was a vacant lot. When I contacted the state, I spoke with the state employee who was trying to collect, and suggested that perhaps she didn’t want to get mixed up in THIS FRAUD!!

     Now, my solution may not be your solution, but REALLY!! Who wants to prosecute you for telling on a predator-A$$hole like this? Hold your head up. You were trying to do the right thing.

     You know you have tremendous support with all of us here. Be strong. And feel all the love we’re sending you.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 22 February 2009 @ 1:02am

110. Rune says:

     Oh, by the way, this was one of those S/Ps who used every trick to defraud along the way, and suing ME for child support was just one of them. This wasn’t about taking care of children. It was about hurting me. I was glad I could at least stop one of his tricks.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 22 February 2009 @ 1:04am

111. OxDrover says:

     Rune, they are cool aren’t they?

     There is a little neighbor girl here who is getting the shaft from her soon to be X. They built and paid for a home, but the home was located on HIS parents’ land and in the parent’s names….well, he is trying to get out of giving her any money for her share of the home….but so happens HIS MOTHER is divorcing his father, and the two women are working together, so in the end, both the TREE (father psychopath) and the APPLE (son psychopath) will get their just financial deserts!

     And, GUESS WHAT NASTY OLD BAT GAVE THEM THE IDEA!!!! So the two women working together will help both women overcome the problem with the land title. The “Tree” psychopath went out the other day and just for the hell of it, locked the girl’s horse back in the woods on remote land where there was neither food nor water this time of year, and locked all the gates, but since the “Tree’s WIFE” has a right to that land, SHE opened the gates so her DIL could get her horse out and get her personal items out of her home legally.

     They will use ANYTHING that you value, horse or child, to hurt you just because they know it will.

     Sometimes though, there are ways to block the damage. I know this young woman and her three small children age 8 to 18 months still has a long road ahead of her, but at least for the time being her P is working out of town (has been for a yr and a half) so maybe he won’t come back here and the NC is giving her some SPACE to clear her head. Just the legal and financial devestation and UNSURE stance on things legally (and lawyers are sometimes dunces! or just don’t want to bother) Sorry Matt, not all are like you!

     Just like it “takes a village to raise a child” it takes a COMMUNITY of support to overcome a Psychopath! Thank God for Lovefraud community, and what it teaches us, we can share in the outside world. TOWANDA!!!!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 22 February 2009 @ 11:21am

112. Sabinne says:

     Matt, you don’t happen to practice law in NJ do you?

     (Report abusive comment)

     Tuesday, 3 March 2009 @ 1:55am

113. OxDrover says:

     MATT:

     I just got a brain fart tonight while talking on the phone with a dear friend who has also been around the track a race or two with P’s, and I was mentioning you, and you losing your job etc. and the two of us decided your next JOB–if you don’t mind us telling you how to run your life! LOL

     Get on the love fraud “referal list” and offer TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS with advice (not specific advice for a particular state but just general information and strategy) so that you are not overstepping your license which I assume is state issued. That way people could pay through PayPal or whatever for an affordable time consultation by telephone. It would be an affordable service for the client and give you some income. I know there are “attorneys” that you click on the link, type in your question etc. but we know squat about these guys and we KNOW YOU KNOW ABOUT PSYCHOPATHS. Your comments (for free) are wonderful and it would not be legal advice per se, but a CONSULTATION on how to manage the lawyer handling the case for them. Like a “second opinion” or a direction for them to go. What’ya think? I think I am SO SMART to have thought of this! If you’re such a smart lawyer, why didn’t you think of this first? LOL (((hug))) Here I am again, hugging a lawyer even after I had to tell him what job to take and how to do it! LOL ROTFLMAO

     (Report abusive comment)

     Tuesday, 3 March 2009 @ 2:51am

114. Rune says:

     Hey Matt: I think Oxy’s onto something. (Not ON something!)

     Seriously, the first 5 hours of a lawyer’s time could be spent trying to explain that we were dealing with someone clinically dysfunctional. You are ahead in the game in understanding this, and you can help and get paid, and still save time and trauma for others who are dealing with this creatures.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Tuesday, 3 March 2009 @ 4:34am

115. Sabinne says:

     Oxy, that’s brilliant. You’ve got a great idea!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Tuesday, 3 March 2009 @ 8:29pm

116. Sabinne says:

     I had to go through my old computer and look for proof to try and defend myself. All I found were our pictures. I can’t stop crying now. I don’t want to do this anymore. I’m so tired of crying and I don’t know what to do anymore.

     I don’t think I can do this anymore. I think I’m going to have a nervous breakdown.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 12:12am

117. Rune says:

     Oh Sabinne: I am so sorry you are facing this right now. People who have not been here in this place of betrayal cannot imagine what this feels like.

     Turn your head away from the pain. In this moment, control yourself by putting up walls to protect you from what you don’t have to see right now — reminders of the fairytale.

     Somewhere, somehow, there is the proof you need, or the angle that can help.

     Right now, though, be very, very gentle with yourself. Tell yourself how strong and amazing your are to have figured this out at all.

     You have so much support behind you, so many caring people here. And we know the truth. And we send you our best hugs.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 12:59am

118. shabbychic2 says:

     Sabinne: I have gone through this myself, I have read on LF how crying can actually help rellieve some of the stress, so if I have to cry… I cry. I’ve been reading your posts and you have really been standing up for yourself, you will get through this, don’t give your power away to one person, somethng I always did, but I have my sister here to yell at me.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 1:12am

119. Kathleen Hawk says:

     Sabinne, this sounds like a terribly difficult time right now, and you sound really upset. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

     From what I’ve read in your previous posts, you’ve heard that he’s trying to instigate a legal action. Not that he’s accomplished that. And you don’t even know if this is really true.

     You don’t have to react right now. The fact that you are reacting so powerfully is reason enough to back away.

     Part of healing is paying attention to what’s good for you. This is clearly not good for you right now.

     More than that, he’s succeeded in upsetting you. Which is not what you want.

     Rune gave you some great advice. I’d add to that the suggestion that you do something else. Take a bath. Read a book. Or do some exercise, or go fool around in the kitchen. I suspect that something more physical might be helpful.

     If you can, just stop thinking about it. Make an agreement with yourself to pick it up again tomorrow or in a few days. It will wait.

     A huge hug –

     Kathy

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 1:17am

120. henry says:

     Sabinne – I remember saying I was having a nervous breakdown that was way over due. Now I see it as a nervous break through. When I came here a year ago all I wamted was to find the easy button and stop hurting. It doesn’t happen that way. I think most of us have hit bottom when we google (sociopath) and find this place. I can tell you that this feeling of despair and heartbreak will ease up each day. It takes baby steps, but only you can do it. This is a life lesson, one we don’t want to take but we must. I hope you have gone no contact. You will recover, you will feel normal again. Please take care of yourself. Sleep if you can, eat well and go someplace you have never been and just walk or sit and reflect. Crying is good. I don’t cry often but I remember a few snot slobberin screaming crying episodes that got so much toxin’s out….you have alot of living to do and you are learning so much about yourself now…hang in there..

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 1:25am

121. Sabinne says:

     I wish I could stop and look away, but the court date is next week. If I don’t do something now, then I’m setting myself up for so much trouble. I have no choice. If I don’t do something then this man is going to ruin my career and make it so that I can’t even afford food. Not to mention that I have pour over every little detail, every photo and any scrap of evidence I can find. That man is killing me without even touching me.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 1:27am

122. shabbychic2 says:

     Sabinne: I wish you could hear in yourself what I hear in your posts, that you are a strong person who is going to do something to stand up for herself. I admire that. A lot of people can’t do that. Henry is right, there is no easy button… but you are going to start feeling better.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 1:41am

123. Sabinne says:

     I want to thank you all for being there for me last night. It seems I need your support so often these days, but you all never fail me. I appreciate you so much.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 12:37pm

124. OxDrover says:

     DEar dear Sabinne,

     I am glad that everyone was there for you last night, I logged off early so my son could have the “air card” and so didn’t see your post til just now. (nearly noon here) I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time with this,, and the POINT OF IT ALL IS TO UPSET YOU, and the more upset you are, the less you will BE able to fight it. GET MAD!!! The anger will help you, don’t let him make you despair right now (you can despair later! LOL) HATE HIM!!!! Heck, he is doing it to you and not me and I HATE HIM FOR YOU!!! (((((hugs)))))

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 12:57pm

125. Matt says:

     Sabinne:

     I didn’t see your earlier post until now — I was out the last few nights. Unfortunately, I’m not licensed to practice in New Jersey.

     One thing I was thinking you need to do, if your attorney hasn’t suggested it already, is make a time line of what transpired. Take the emails, letters, photos, etc and try to set out a timeline that puts them in context. For example, “this email dated x/x/x (EXHIBIT A)was in response to Mr Y doing Z. Then, at the back of the timeline have the email tabbed “EXHIBIT A”.

     I think doing this will help you to get really clear on what went on so that if the judge asks you any questions you can answer it concisely and back up what you’re saying.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 2:40pm

126. Sabinne says:

     Matt, Ox, thank you so much. Those are really great suggestions. I promise to try to be stronger and smarter than I’ve ever been. With all you behind me, how could I not?

     (Report abusive comment)

     Wednesday, 4 March 2009 @ 3:00pm

127. Sabinne says:

     Matt, will the judge be able to ask me questions? Is this not like the trials you see on tv where the defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty?

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 5 March 2009 @ 1:01am

128. Sabinne says:

     I thought I’d let you all know that I did get an attorney. She has adjourned the matter or me until after my final exams, so at least he won’t be able to interrupt my school year. Nice, huh? It was hard getting that money, but I managed.

     Sometimes it’s still tough to handle everything, but most times I feel fine. It’s the once in awhile in the wee hours of the night that get me now. I’ll bet by the time my new court date comes even that will be gone. I’ll be free.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 10:25am

129. learnthelesson says:

     Sabinne – This is good news. Nice is RIGHT! Your positive thinking will go a LONG , LONG WAY. The once in a whiles, pop up, but less and less and less…and more manageable each time. Good luck with your exams… and with your (Socio)Freedom!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 10:35am

130. Jim in Indiana USA says:

     Sabinne-good news! I think Rune was asking about you earlier, remembering this might be an important day…the chance to finish school without that distraction will help.

     Free is good, will be good!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 10:44am

131. Sabinne says:

     I wonder if the court called him to let him know it was adjourned or if had to show up to find out? These are the things that I wonder. I hope he had to go and waste his time. I know that this sounds petty, but so is this ridiculous case.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 11:08am

132. Matt says:

     Sabinne:

     This being in Municipal Court, I can almost guaranty that nobody bothered to tell him the matter was adjourned. So, yes, he had to haul his sorry ass down there.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 12:00pm

133. OxDrover says:

     Dear Sabinne,

     Believe me, these little muni courts are not like”Perry Mason” but more like “night court” that show on TV years ago. LOL

     It is more like an assembly line thing and it isn’t anything to be terrified of. You can probably get it put off again for any little reason and I would advise you to keep on putting it off as LONG AS YOU CAN just to delay will keep stabbing him. LOL

     Focus on school, not on this thing—they are NOT going to give you “llife without parole” no matter what! Chances are when you waltz into that court room looking the soul of proproiety, like “Miz Manners” and conduct yourself like a LADY who is so far above this low life creep that he would get a nose bleed if he came up to your level, the judge will see you and realize this whole thing is a “set up.” Gosh I would love to be there at your court hearing.

     But since we LF’ers can’t be there,, think like that telephone commercial where the guy has the NETWORK behind him of all these people supporting him no matter what happens. WE WILL BE THERE IN SPIRIT!!! Visualize your NETWORK BEHIND YOU cheering you on!!!! ((((big hugs))))) Keep us in the loop, I want to know how this turns out!!!!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 12:30pm

134. Jim in Indiana USA says:

     Sabinne….there aren’t any bench warrants out for him? Sometimes in my little town, they show up trying to cause someone else trouble and end up in jail…that would be nice.

     Of course you don’t know…but it would be funny….LOL

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 12:51pm

135. Jen2008 says:

     Sabinne, I’m so happy to hear you were able to get the court date delayed till after your exams. Like Oxy said, maybe you can keep getting it delayed. With enough delays and inconvenienes to the S, he may find something else to amuse him (translate that as someone else to torment) and maybe he’ll just eventually lose interest and drop the whole thing. Anyway, congrats.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 1:14pm

136. Matt says:

     Jen2008:

     I was just going to post that same thing. I suspect a few delays and he will lose interest — once he discovers it is going to start costing him time. That’s what it always boils down to with these creatures — you have to make it costly enough for them so that they leave you alone.

     Sabinne:

     If you do have to go into court, think funeral when it comes to your attire. Basic black, hair pulled back, no makeup.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 1:30pm

137. Sabinne says:

     Matt,

     Do you really think that’s the way to go? All black? I will try to have it adjourned as often as I can. I hope he’ll get tired of waiting and the game he wants to play. It doesn’t cost me anything extra no matter how long it takes. I’m glad he had to show up to find me not there. That’s a pleasant thought. Thanks guys for all the great advice and support.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 3:45pm

138. OxDrover says:

     Matt,

     May I agree with you on the attire, “funeral” is great, very tasteful, but not morbid, mournfull, or TOO severe, and as far as the “make up” it should also be “funeral” but NOT None, just not like she is going out dancing, and VERY TASTEFUL, almost like she is not wearing any VISIBLE make up. Without any make up in court I would look like I was the CORPSE! LOL But I do keep to the idea that “Less is more” and at my age I have cut the make up down to what is NOT visible as make up at all, but don’t want to look totally dead and dried up. Just basic good grooming and NEAT (shoes polished, matching handbag or NO handbag visible etc) NO VISIBLE JEWELRY EXCEPT WEAR A NICE SILVER OR GOLD COLORED CROSS, one that looks like it is your “regular” necklace. That is what my lawyer told me to do for a court case that I am still iinvolved with. He is one of THE TOP attorneys in his field in the US—he is even going so far as to get a “fake” jury and have me give my testemony in front of them for critique before we actually go to trial so that he can coach me. “Smoke and mirrors”! But IMPORTANT!

     Also, Sabinne, he may show up 2-3-4 times and it is canceled, and then he MAY NOT SHOW UP ON THE REAL DAY, thus getting the whole thing thrown out of court.

     Remember “it ain’t over til the fat lady sings” and I have NO intention of singing HIS TUNE!!! LOL

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 4:44pm

139. kindheart48 says:

     guys i have a question here as i think im in the bargaining phase from what i’m reading. I told the s that if he didn’t return my phone calls i would not speak to him again and if he wanted to spend time with me he was to take me to this place where i have always wanted a cowhide from. The thing is i shouldn’t have any contact whatsoever and i know how absolutely cheap he is and know he won’t want to do anything that i give him conditions on, as that is his domain. Now im hurt again like a fool and the reality is i should tell him to spend his cheap money on the cheap women he doesn’t know the difference between. Anyway i could use some suggestions as i know what im doing now that i saw some of you write about the bargaining. Im bargaining for something i should n’t even be bargaining for. It’s driving me nuts. It’s a no win situation any way i look at it so why the hell would i pull this trick anyway. love kindheart

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 7:23pm

140. OxDrover says:

     Dear Kindheart,

     You may be in the “bargaining phase” but the point that is the really LOSE-LOSE part of it is that you are having ANY CONTACT WITH HIM AT ALL.

     As long as you are having ANY contact with him, you are in the LOSING PHASE. Until you stop that, NOTHING WILL HELP YOU GET TO HEALING YOURSELF.

     I cannot say it any more plainly than that. You are defeating yourself. It is your choice, you are over 21 and can do what you please, but if you continue to do what you KNOW IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, how can I help you by giviing you advice?

     What difference does it make if he is cheap? He isn’t going to change. What good is a cow hide from him? Or a new car? Or a big long boat, or a fur coat, or a diamond ring? Would it make him better or you better or the relationship better?

     You are still paddling down the “RIVER DE-NIAL” and violating the “11th commandment” which is ‘THOU SHALT NOT FOOL THY SELF.” Get real, Kindheart. Wake up and smell the coffee, until YOU decide to get better, you are going to keep on doing things that are not going to help you, the very same things that brought you here.

     I AM speaking plainly with you, and I do not mean to offend you in any waya. I have been where you are, and I know until some people spoke plainly to me, I didn’t want to face reality—but it is the only way you CAN get out of this quicksand mire. ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 7:32pm

141. akitameg says:

     has anyone noticed that if you are alone for too long/isolated/home alone– whatever–
     it is not healthy?
     I came back to VA last nite and had to clean this apartment all day. Studio apt.
     My mind is now obsesses with “How much you wanna bet his exwife took him back?”
     I saw signs of him trying to get back with her (They always want what they can’t have)– when we were dating, but he denied it and acted like I was nuts for “imagining” such things>
     YOu guys– why do I care????
     maybe b/c if she did go back to him (He is gorgeous, NOW RICH and incredible in bed and they have a beautiful 6 year old)– that would say even more how I was just a rebound whore for him. All those lies to me and I was just a joke! My mind, body, future, finances– spirit– destroyed for a guy to go on a two year thing?
     Any support? This sucks. I am in so much pain. It has been 5 months NC.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:09pm

142. kindheart48 says:

     Thanks Ox for your post and toughlove, i will continue to read your post until i drill it into my thick skull. thanks again for laying it on the line and not sugar coating. And as i said i will read it more than once but please know i do not want to be doing this merry go round anymore. I’ve gone to so many lengths, two months in trauma away from home was extremely hard but i do understand what you are telling me. love kindheart

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:16pm

143. akitameg says:

     I would like to share this.
     I was taken by a coworker to the ER the day after the N physically assaulted me and discarded me. There were NO bruises or anything- he is waaaay to smart to leave evidence,
     but I was in some type of shock. I lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks, diarreha everyday, blah, blah…
     so– I got a bill the other day for 500 bucks for the doctors in the ER and my insuracne would not cover it. They had put “anxiety” down as a diagnosis and my mental care (from being with the N in the first place) had run out!!!!
     So– yesterday I put in=t on my credit card. I do not have a job and I am so upset b/c you guys—
     SHOULDN’T HE BE PAYING FOR IT.And– he became a millionaire the day he discarded me (A coincidence? I think not.)
     what do I do????? I am soooo pissed!!!!!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:18pm

144. OxDrover says:

     Meg,

     His apparent “success” is just that APPARENT, but NOT real.

     You are who you are, you are NOT MEASURED by who you are with, who loves you or who doesn’t—YOU ARE YOU. YOU ARE IMPORTANT. HE IS NOT THE YARDSTICK BY WHICH YOU MEASURE YOURSELF….or it should NOT be.

     Money won’t buy him a soul, nothing will. He can be rich as Midas and it still doesn’t make him REAL.

     You are only “destroyed” as long as you measure yourself by his yard stick. Quit doing it! BOINK!!!! ((((hugs)))) love and peace! HE IS THE LIE!!! Now write that 500 times and turn it in when study hall is over…;.and go back to being the MARVELOUS MEG!!!!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:18pm

145. learnthelesson says:

     Meg.. I just logged on.. are you still online?

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:39pm

146. Matt says:

     akitameg, kindheart 48, and anyone else who is even remotely considering the possiblity of assigning human values and/or longng for these one-man weapons of mass destruction:

     I have just started reading Ann Rule’s latest book “Too Late To Say Goodbye” about this dentist in Georgia who not only killed his wife, but a girlfriend of his in dental school and possibly a third woman he was involved with. I hate to sound cruel, I hate to sound blunt, and I don’t mean to bitch-slap you, but, this book is an eye-opener.

     From page one, all the sociopathic elements employed by the sociopathic killer were leaping off the page at me. I am only 1/2 way through, but all the elements of my ex are ON THE PAGE IN BLACK AND WHITE.

     Maybe none of you want to believe us. Maybe you don’t want to believe Drs. Hare or Stout. We can’t convince you that there is no “good soul/good heart” under that sociopathic exterior.

     Hopefully this book will. Ms. Rule aptly points out, there is no reforming these creatures. There is no happily ever after.

     Read this book. Maybe it will open your eyes. If nothing else, after you read this book, you may be grateful you are alive, unlike the 3 women in this book who aren’t.

     Sorry to go on a tear here, but, that’s the way I’m feeling tonight.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:42pm

147. learnthelesson says:

     Meg… Where were you in your life before you met him? How was your life pre-S? Were you in a fairly good place? Were you recovering from a previous breakup? What was going on in your world before you encountered the Sociopath and the ensuing chaos…

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 8:48pm

148. akitameg says:

     ya’ll are so wonderful!!!!

     thanks for boinking me Oxy.

     Matt– you are funny–
     “the possibility of assigning human values and/or longing for these one-man weapons of mass destruction.”

     I love it! Perfect!

     Learn the lesson–
     I was going into a major depression when I met him. I was attractive and a singer– and a musical therapist. He was a photographer and asked me to work with him. Ughhh!
     I had just found out that my sperm donor– an S– had died– called me before he died saying how he loved me so much-
     and then did not leave my any inheritance (I was his bastard child that he found when I was 20– hence I left college over it!). But he left it to the dghtrs of his marriage–w ho are both lawyers– so in court–even with me DNA proven- I had no chance. It was really, really sad.
     I was also losing my singing voice from acid reflux– and working my butt off in anursing home where everyone expected Meg to make the place happy–
     I was at least much physically healthier however. NOt the waif with no appetite that rights to you now with nitemares every night and 800 bucks in medical bills. and no job.
     this all sucks.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:03pm

149. akitameg says:

     matt– thank you. going to get that book hopefully tomorrow.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:06pm

150. penelope says:

     Matt,
     Martha Stout says that whether or not a sociopath is a murderer depends only on how he likes his power. If he likes having power over life and death he’ll be a murderer. If he likes power over money he’ll be an embezzler. If he’s like mine and likes enslaving women emotionally to pay them back for the power they have over him sexually he’ll spend a life time playing one woman off another and crafting humiliating manipulations.

     So much of the stuff we talk about here regards how male Ps scheme to get sex out of women, but are the dynamics similar with gay men? I’d think that a pyschopath satisfying himself with other men would find the promiscuity he craved much easier and that he’d use his scheming for other things. I’ve heard that gay men tend to be more accepting of open relationships which can only work in psychopaths’ favor.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:20pm

151. Matt says:

     akitameg:

     Don’t mean to come down hard on you — I’m guilty of trying to romanticize and explain away all my S’s bad behavior. But, sometimes we really need to see to what extremes these — people — will go to just to meet their own needs. None of us like to believe that the person we so freely loved could possibly go to the extreme of murder. Fact of the matter is they will — if we happen to get in the way of what they want.

     This isn’t a momentary bad mood they are going through. They are seriously disordered and capable of anything.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:22pm

152. learnthelesson says:

     Meg.. Ok. Well Im glad you brought everything up to date. I was actually thinking your story might be more like mine prior to meeting them. But you had way more, in fact LOTS MORE on your plate than I did going into it with mine. Mine was alot more about past trauma.. sounds like you were involved in alot of trauma leading up to and before meeting him. And probably even more vulnerable than most.

     Yes, you write to us now, thats a big PLUS, BONUS and CHANGE FOR THE BETTER IN YOUR LIFE … your posts are honest and real and raw … and even some quick witted funny ones at times…

     As far as being/getting physically healthier – thats something you have the power to do WITHIN you. Its a choice, you know that!

     The medical bills can wait… you Meg, cannot. What you have shared and gone through before during and after the S is surely enough to knock any one of us off our feet.. for a loop..and leave us feeling sad and depressed. You need to pick yourself up by your bootstraps, socks, slippers, flipflops WHATEVER… and get through this like you have every other major setback/obstacle/depression in your life…

     And speaking of, what are you doing to manage depression? Because dealing with that and getting that under control. Someone asked me how did you get through.. and my first response was we all have to check our level of depression and decide where we are with that. I exercised. Dragged myself to the gym, ran the track, walked the park. Sometimes through tears, but I knew it was either get out of it or I was going to end up in a really bad place. Its a choice Meg. At some point its no longer about him, its about what you want for you. Because sometimes we cant get through this with just ourselves and our support system, our bodies and minds need more support during the most difficult times.

     I want you to start thinking about Meg…

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:23pm

153. kindheart48 says:

     akitameg, you just brought back a memory. Even though my s is a coward and is probably more afraid of me than i of him as he’s too clever like yours to ever physically hit someone. he is also a weakling to boot. But i remember him telling me that when he and his last ex a 20 year younger woman who finally stopped letting him kick her out with her little girl, prob on advice from a lawyer decided to stay until she got a settlement. By this time i beleive she didnt’ care any longer and did whatever she pleased in the house of horror as she called it as he is over the top OCD. I recall him telling me that if he ever had hit her he would have killed her. This of course went right over my head as i was in shock over my marriage ending but i beleive the only thing that kept him from hitting her was he’s a coward and woulnd’t last a minute in jail. Your guy is dangerous and i wish my s asshole as my gf said would have hit me just once and i would have been gone or he would have been gone but they are too smart. Not worth taking a risk and now you have to pay for what he did . I hope karma give him something nice in return. Sorry to sound so vengeful but sometimes life is not fair and im sorry you are getting the short end of it,

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:26pm

154. OxDrover says:

     Yep, we must accept that some of them (many?) ARE CAPABLE OF MURDER and they are so arrogant they think they will get away with it.

     Even my X-DIL thought she could murder my son C and almost did it, but fortunately he survived and got through to 911.

     Go down to one of your local book stores and read through the “true crime” sections, go to your local police station and read through some of the logs—you will see that this is not a “nice” world we live in. People do some horrible things to each other. Hitler killed 6 million people—Chairman Mao killed 60 million (that is six-0 million) etc etc. People ARE capable of more evil than we can even imagine, and we need to accept that our Ps are capable of a lot of things.

     Look at that Clarkk Rockefeller creep—they haven’t as far as I know proven he killed that couple, but…OJ Simpson, Scot Peterson, Ted Bundy, Charlie Manson….I could go on but you get the idea. These people ARE capable of killing others, and how many women die at the hands of their “lovers” and “husbands” each year, how many children die at the hands of their parents? Even in my little state which has only 1/3 the number of people that LA or NY have, every night there is 1 or more killings on the news, babies killed by parents, wives by husbands, parents by kids—-IT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE JUST LIKE US, by people just like our Ps.

     I’m with Matt—-

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:27pm

155. Matt says:

     penelope:

     I don’t think you can categorize it down to sex. I think most people on this site rage about the sexual betrayal committed by their exes because it was the worst betrayal imaginable. We love sociopaths, we forgive them everything under the sun. The thing that pushes most of us over the edge — after everything else — is discovering they have been lying to us and betraying us sexually.

     This gay man made it very clear to the S I was involved with that I expected fidelity. I always have and always will believe that the minute you “open” up a relationship to a third party the realtionship is doomed because you have just destroyed the intimacy that is required in order for a relationship to work.

     I don’t agree with Martha Stout on how she categorizes them. Based on what I saw with my S, I think they are creatures of the moment. It wasn’t until my S was desperately hooked on drugs that he decided to steal paychecks from his employer and try to cash them. I have no doubt that is his employer was walking around with 20 grand in his pocket, he would have killed his employer to get the cash.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:28pm

156. Rune says:

     Matt: Thank you for the major heads-up. What we keep forgetting is that these people are CRAZY!!! Not just strange . . .

     If any are retrievable, it won’t be by us. And, by the way, Ann Rule is the same woman who worked a crisis hot line in a locked room with “that nice young man, Ted Bundy.”

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:30pm

157. akitameg says:

     Matt–
     I do not think you can imagine how much I know of what you are speaking. That is why I had to leave the state! His family are known for their vindictive nature (Which I found out fro a cop after the assault) and now that he was up for a huge inheritance and I knew the truth about him?
     People- even two lawyers who knew what he was about and were at my deposition were worried.
     I saw in his eyes that nite– that if he could have killed me– he would have– if he could n=have NOT GOTTEN CAUGHT.
     I keep thinking Matt– that, well, maybe with another woman– he will be the wonderful prince again that he was for me for two years– but with her– he will stay that way and this sick shite won’t come out.
     He did sexually assault his beautiful, educated, hard working and gorgeous wife from Japan before me however. He had just cried and cried about how she was lying. After he did what he did to me– I knew– she was not lying.
     I need this blog. You guys get me back into reality. MOnsters. Please keep reminding me.
     What do you all thinking about what I wrote about maybe with heir next “victim”– they really will love them and never turn bad? Is that just stinkin’ thinkin’–from the trauma of all of this.?

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:31pm

158. akitameg says:

     Learn the Lesson–thank you sooo much for that last post!
     from now on guys– can I not thank everyone when they leave me a message? I just want you to know how much I appreciate you and your advice–

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:34pm

159. kindheart48 says:

     Matt thanks i am writing the name of the book down as well as i need to look at reality as Ox earlier posted and sounds like the book is a good dose of it.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:37pm

160. akitameg says:

     I am soo frickin’ angry at myself for not seeeing that he was mostly after sex!!! I am an idiot!
     How do I get over that? I was a whore– this is the worst.

     Mine never cheated with a real person. Porn online when I was not around. Does that mean he is not an S? I think it means that he enjoys the easiness of just having one chic to deal with– the safety- and the security that she will keep coming back. He never cheated on his wife, but he discarded her when she told his parents he tried to have sex with her when she did not want to.
     Also– I was a sex goddess dang it. Even my exhusband has talked about that. Oh well– I’m half Italian and have some Argentinian in me.
     I feel like a jpiece of trash and this sucks.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:46pm

161. Matt says:

     akitameg:

     Shoot just lost the post. I’ll start again.

     What you are going through is way past “stinkin’ thinkin’”. What you are doing is what we refer to on this site as MAGICAL THINKING — if I only do X, he’ll do Y. If I do Y, he’ll see how much I love him. Maybe the right person will bring out the ‘real” X and the sweet person I know is underneath that monster will finally come out.

     NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Magical thinking falls into the same category as the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus. Don’t exist. Never will.

     You have got to focus on you — and how terribly he treated you. No magical thinking. You need to think of every rotten thing he ever did and focus on that. And don’t tell me about how “yeah, he treated me badly 30 times in a row, but one time he…” Doesn’t work. Love is never easy, but it sure shouldn’t hurt the way you’ve been hurt. And love definitely doesn’t result in you ending up in the ER for assault.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:47pm

162. OxDrover says:

     Meg,

     QUOTE: “What do you all think about what I wrote about maybe their next victim–they really will love them and never turn bad?”

     BOINK!!!BOINK!!!BOINK!!!!

     YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT MEGGIE, DEAR!!!! LOL

     I used to tell my kids a “stupid question” was one YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO— Boink! again for good measure!

     Now, dear, you have to write 1000 times this time, “HE WILL NOT EVER CHANGE, HE WILL VICTIMIZE THEM ALL.” And I want it turned in in good cursive by day light or you will get an F for today and have to sit in study hall for the rest of the week! LOL ((((hugs))))) and always my prayers Meg!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 9:49pm

163. akitameg says:

     thank you so much Oxy and Matt. YOu honesty and prayers are appreciated.

     I am going to bed. Or at least watch a little tv. Pray I don’t dream of him all damned night! It is crazy.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 10:03pm

164. kindheart48 says:

     matt, i was reading your post about the sex and mine could care less about sex. He’s more on the narcissistic side and only uses sex in the beginning to get you hooked. That’s what is so perplexing but when you understand that he’s a mysogynist(hates women) it makes more sense. Of course he doesn’t see it this way, like to think he likes women, but he only likes to objectify them. I’d say he’s asexual if anything which has made me wonder if he isn’t a latent homosexual or bisexual but he manages to get women hooked even though he sucks(pardon the punn) at sex and i mean terrible. Women i’ve talked to before me have all concerred that he is a poor lover to say the least. His is the mind f*** and he’s good at it because he knows the sex is all in his head. I remember him asking me once early on if i was orgasmic and i thought what kind of a question is that. Prob taking my pulse to see and sad part is i overlooked sex for 5 years of my life from 42 to 48 years of age and im far from ugly but now i have issues the other way. Everything with him was so weird , that the weird has become normal. habitualized to pretend sex , it’s all just too over the top to even get into. I just hope when i meet a nice guy i remember what it’s like as i feel like he made me into some madonna as he also has the madonna/whore complex which also goes with narcissistic personality disorder. What a wast e of pretty as i saw on a show. He might as well have been in a wheelchair and i would have been a faithful pathetic irish setter. i know im going to be mad over this one someday soon.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 10:07pm

165. Matt says:

     kindheart48:

     Same drill with mine — the sex was scortching the first couple of months — he made me feel like I was the best lover on earth. And then the gobi desert phase set in — bone dry in bed. At the end, when he made himself available all I would think is “what do you want now?”

     (Report abusive comment)

     Thursday, 12 March 2009 @ 10:16pm

166. DancingWarrior says:

     Dear Liane,

     I can identify with “exploitive care-taking behavior that is disguised as love”

     I definitely recognize my learned helplessness as I deeply believe that my husband took care of me in every possible way. In retrospect, I see that he did so only as long as it benefitted him, and how vindictively he was ready to take away these “gifts” or supports as soon as I filed for divorce this summer. Then the fear of NOT having these supports kicked in big time making me paralyzed to move forward, feeling absolutely helpless, left, alone without his “help” or goodwill.

     FIr him, money is a huge symbol of exchange of “goods and services” in a relationship. Rules go something like: “you play by my rules and give me the aggrandizing mirror I need, act submissive and helpless, fulfill my demands, and in return I will provide material support. If you seek to be separate from me, have your autonomy, disagree with my desires, I will punish you, and you won’t get a penny for child support” He has used words like, “I know you don’t care if I live or die as long as you get every penny I have, but you won’t get it!! My father gave YOU half a house to raise YOUR family in and you are so ungrateful!”

     It is hard to see a calculated cold human being where I am used to seeing him as my family, my friend, father of my child, my “protector.” Almost impossible.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 6 December 2009 @ 12:37pm

167. HeatherM says:

     My ex made me very dependent on him, and I didn’t realize it til just recently. I have felt so abandon and like I can’t do anything for myself anymore. I’ve given up on so many things, and that is just what he wanted. I am trying to regain control of my life but it is beyond difficult.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 11:14am

168. OxDrover says:

     Dear Heather,

     Welcome to Lovefraud, you have come to the right place for learning and healing, and your life is NOT out of control, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER and you can learn here and take back your power. It may be painful, I don’t tell you that it isn’t, but it will be MORE THAN WORTH THE JOURNEY!

     Read, go back through all the old archived articles and read each one. some of them may not be helpful to you right now, but many will. they will show you that this is NOT your “fault” this is abuse, and you are the only one that can stop the abuse as he never will. I am glad you are here, but sorry that you have been hurt. Read and learn and blog, there are people here who understand and empathize. ((((Hugs)))) and god bless you.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 11:43am

169. one_step_at_a_time says:

     ‘The depression is about a feeling of hopelessness that the things wanted most in life will never be achieved.’

     i hit this right after i figured out ‘he hadn’t died’. and it seared me. at first it wasn’t a depression – there was just this intense pain that said – will never have these things: never be loved, cared for, taken care of. i spent most of my life very independent, but in the last few years of spiraling difficulties I have come to wish for rescue. and seeing no way out of the spiraling difficulties (’cause i try and i ask for help and i believe am always on the look out for some way….) the only option i could come up with was a rescue of some sort.

     and ‘he’ presented it. and i wanted it sooo bad that i was willing to hang in their awhile and see.

     i was out of step with my generation as a girl – too independent, too aware of the limitations placed on me because of my gender, of access denied, of what felt like love withheld, too aware of male privilege. I didn’t have words or theory as a young one. found them in my 20’s. Then I became very aware of being further ostracized because of my ‘radical’ beliefs and non conforming behaviour. but that’s what our 20’s are for

     by the time i was in my early 30’s i was aware that i didn’t want to live as a separtist, that my politics might make me a very good member of a subculture, but i found the sub culture stifling also. I integrated my politics and moved into a more mainstream life, I took up more space.

     I know i have given up important things to be part of ‘wider’ culture. especially in a small place like this. which is why i wnet to the web in the first place – things missing from my life. important things. I met two people there (not counting the sock puppets, ’cause really…) over the last 5 years: one N and one spath.

     I dated the N. I obsessed about the N….I let go of the N when as my x, she raised her fist to me. SHE was a piece of work.

     The spath – sigh. what can i say. Much deep work to do when the time comes. I deeply miss that connection. Many have mentioned that they don’t have a sense of humor – we laughed all the time. I suspect that the chemicals released by that was a big part of my staying on. and that mixed with the drama/trauma of his never ending dying and then the burgeoning abusiveness of the sock puppets hooked me on a physiological level QUITE NICELY.

     I keep thinking about printing some of the pictures of ‘him’ and the REAL PERSON BEHIND THIS CON (there are a few on the internet) and cutting them up into tiny strips and weaving them together….

     ………then lighting them on fire.
     daily.

     

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 11:53am

170. henry says:

     HO HO HO Happy Christmas and Merry Everything – I am off to spend more money I dont have….~!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 11:59am

171. one_step_at_a_time says:

     henry,

     now why did you post this under the blog entry of , ‘why is this so hard for us mentally’? LOL.

     have much fun.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:03pm

172. henry says:

     spending money you dont have is very hard mentally – besides I have to stick my nose in here ocasionally so ya’ll wont forget me….

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:25pm

173. OxDrover says:

     Dear henry,

     Well, HO, HO HO! TO YOU TOO! Our Christmas spending was done at GoodWill! Actually got some nice NEW clothing the guys would like but couldn’t do retail at all. So got some nice things for the guys taht they could use, they got me a couple of books and one DVD for us all, so very “cheap” christmas but a very GOOD one in spite of that. I baked special things for the guys and we watched the DVD together.

     And you know, this has been one of the most relaxing and peaceful holidays and NO STRESS HOLIDAYS in my life time. It is amazing what PEACE does to your life.

     The apostle Paul advised the early Christians to be CONTENT with what they had and what they were, even if there were things that they could nto change, like even being a SLAVE. If you could change it, of course do it, but if you could not, then ACCEPT it and be CONTENT! That’s pretty good advice to me.

     There might be some things in my life I would LIKE to change but are not in my control, so I will ACCEPT those things and be content anyway!

     I really don’t miss the hectic holidays with tons of packages under the tree and then tons of paper thown everywhere and too much to eat and a belly hurting from over doing it, and chaos and stress as a SIDE DISH, I’ll take what I have now and AM CONTENT! HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO EVERYONE!!!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:25pm

174. henry says:

     Being spath-free is the best xmas present I could do for myself. That cruel creature ruined my ‘christmas’s past’ three years in a row. I am keepin busy so I dont focus on that. I hope he get’s ran over by a big fat reindeer.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:31pm

175. henry says:

     or a hippo with diahrea.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:33pm

176. OxDrover says:

     Dear Henry,

     I think we posted over each other. Yea, I know it is difficult when you feel like you “have” to spend money you don’t have for something in order to keep someone else from being upset. Like Christmas or BDs when people expect a gift. I know you have grandkids and taht makes it even tougher, but you know, at the same time, I think it is perfectly okay to get a token gift even for a kid and just tell them “grandpa can’t afford more.” Or give an alternative homemade gift.

     One of the things my step dad enjoyed the most that I ever gave him was a little scrap book and a letter I wrote to him telling him how special he was to me. I could have bought him something but the thing I made for him meant more. He kept it on his dresser top til the day he died and I saw him frequently look through it.

     Last year for Christmas my son D and I made a CD of all the old songs we could find bout “thank God and Greyhound she’s gone” for my son C for Christmas and he ROARED said it was the best Xmas present ever! Only cost us 99 cents to down load that one song off the internet, we had the rest of them on our CDs.

     This year I baked for the guys (we’ve already had our celebration since son D is going out of state tomorrow) and the little things we got for each other didn’t cost much at all, but were individually chosen with care and love.

     Just having love and Peace in the house and no stress or unnecessary spending is a good thing! Hope your holidays are lovely Henry, you DESERVE IT! Love an dhugs Oxy

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:33pm

177. OxDrover says:

     O, Henry!!!! (I like that as O. Henry is one of my favorite authors!) you are tooooo toooo much!

     You make me laugh as I have a very visual mind. I can just PICTURE that collision on the highway! Poooo everywhere! LOL

     Keep in mind though, Henry, he is his OWN worst enemy and is ALWAYS covered in his own poo because he wallows in it. He will never have a P-FREE day much less an enjoyable holiday!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 12:36pm

178. helplessangel says:

     I can’t get over the feeling of being so stupid! I saw this coming, I saw the signs, knew the behaviors weren’t normal or rational. This person had me in such a hypnotic trance I came back for more abuse. I was the idiot. He knew what things to say to me to manipulate me. It was sick stuff. Now I know, but too late.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 2:33pm

179. Rosa says:

     Henry:

     I have been taking care of my niece ever since she was a baby.
     When she was 2-3 years old, she went through a phase when she came to my house.
     She would always ask, “Do you have something for me?” everytime she came to my house.
     And, I would always respond, “Yes, I have something for you….MY LOVE!” And then I would give her a big hug and kisses.

     Now, she does not require a lot of things from me, even though her mother is a MAJOR HOARDER, and totally obsessed with things.
     But, part of it was my own fault, because I was giving her a lot of things back then. But, I stopped it when she started asking, “Do you have something for me?”

     My mother and I have really tried to stress to this child that life is not about things.
     It’s about love.

     I guess my point is that kids don’t require as much as you might think they do.
     Dr. Leedom even writes that children can become over-stimulated with too many things in her book, “Just Like His Father.” And that’s not good.
     Just give the kids what you can, and tell them the most important part is, “I love you.”

     ~I’m not a parent, so I don’t know if this is the right advice, but it seems to be working for me…at least for now.

     Henry, did I read somewhere that your granddaughter carries a sword?
     My niece carries a gun (a Nerf, not a Glock).

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 2:33pm

180. lostingrief says:

     dear helpless,
     we ALL saw it coming to varying degrees.
     i stayed in it for 20+ years, knowing full well what he had done to others. i never thought he’d do it to me, too. but it just wasn’t my turn … yet … and when it was … holy crap! i ended up almost dead from the stress and depression. let’s not talk about stupid!
     it’s sick alright, but it’s never too late.
     we will all reclaim ourselves in time.
     until then, be kind to yourself. remember, they choose those with big hearts, generous spirits and gracious manner.
     i don’t plan on becoming cold and wicked because he is, although i went there for a while. we must remain part of the solution to all of the sickness and hatred in this world.
     peace.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 4:37pm

181. helplessangel says:

     thank you lostingrief. I appreciate your support. You are right, he targeted me, he told me he did.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 6:10pm

182. henry says:

     HelplessAngel _ Welcome, and if your and idiot so am I. I look at it like they are imposter’s, vampires that cast their spell on us. I was not stupid but ignorant. I was surrounded by vampire’s. When all our blood is gone they move on to fresh humanity, too ignorant people. I can forgive myself for being ignorant. If I fall for another vampire then I am stupid, because I know better now..this happened to us for a reason – a life lesson – so dont be hard on yourself – just heal and be the good person you are and wear garlic around your neck to avoid them in the future. They are unnatural beings, it can happen to anyone..

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 6:39pm

183. henry says:

     Rosa – My granddaughter wears a pink balarina outfit and carrys a plastic sword and wont let her dad fire up the fire place until after santa comes….

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 6:48pm

184. recovering says:

     Dr. Leedom’s article and Mickey’s comments offer crucial reasons we have difficulty getting beyond our experience with a sociopath that have to do with depression, anxiety and and “trauma”– the mental anguish for victims as a result of the N/S’s web of deceit, manipulation and destruction.

     I believe another part has to do with the sense of “unreality” — slowly embracing the unsettling realization that we were dealing with abnormal/disordered individuals who do not operate from basic rules of human engagement.

     For me, there has been a “Twilight Zone” after-taste to the experience. While doing well detaching emotionally (by falling out of love, losing interest in the disordered person), there’s been an intellectual component of cognitive dissonance. While I don’t readily recall fond or sentimental memories that trigger loving feelings when I think about my ex, I often have moments of “Wow — who the hell was that person?”

     My ex-N/S mirrored my values and mimicked other human qualities while disguising his core dysfunction in ways that were very confusing for a while, until I gradually and finally figured things out. I experienced many moments of both sadness and anger on the unfolding journey of understanding to “know with humility” and grow toward acceptance.

     Lovefraud and other websites made a big difference in giving me the foundation of support and knowledge to alleviate the confusion and frustration and re-empower myself as I continued to practice boundaries and limited contact, then gradual and ongoing NC a day at a time.

     It still feels just amazing/incredible — a mind-blowing shock to the system, to say the least, that I thought I was dealing with a real person with rational faculties and capabilities for human emotion.

     It is taking time to fully overcome this sense of having had a “Twilight Zone” experience. I’ve decided to cut myself some slack during the Holiday season by not working as hard, and doing fun reading, other playful lolligagging and putting limited pressure on myself as I continue on the path of healing to return to a full sense of normalcy.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 7:20pm

185. henry says:

     Recovering -You descibe that Twilight Zone effect so well. I often said it was like an episode of the TZ. You make sense of describing what I was feeling..

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 8:03pm

186. one_step_at_a_time says:

     recovering and henry,

     this is how i feel too.

     i think i will try to explain this to my friends. i am feeling so cut off cause i am still in the TZ.

     i have been feeling guilty ’cause i felt like i had one foot in my previous life and one foot in the rarefied air of the relationship with the spath and i cherished this sense of duality – it made me feel powerful, and now i am definitely in two worlds still and neither of them are very nice, and i am thinking i ‘deserve this’ – cause i was so happy to be off and away before.

     erggh.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Saturday, 19 December 2009 @ 8:54pm

187. recovering says:

     one_step_at_a_time and henry — I bet it’s so good to know that we weren’t in outer space/TZ alone…LOL.

     I’m sure part of the TZ feeling also included second-guessing ourselves because the disordered ones can show oh-so-normal periods of time and otherwise come across as very enlightened/intelligent in other moments.

     In our shared experiences, daily or weekly reading at Lovefraud is a life-line for groundedness — like attending virtual group therapy.

     As we continue to let the reality of our full N/S experience soak in more and more, and question our perceptions of them less and less, clarity returns.

     Not so much that we become know-it-alls, but simply people who have survived inhumane encounters and found hard-won wisdom. This allows us to reclaim our personal power, the basis for owning for our ongoing stability and sanity beyond the TZ experience.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:02am

188. one_step_at_a_time says:

     recovering: i am still in the TZ – that oh so special place, I am just there without the spath now. but she gave me the ticket and i will have to find my own way back.

     i am full of swear words tonight – ones that i don’t use (and you will notice that i swear a fair amount. I reread some of the last emails from one of the sock puppets – supposedly a sister of the spath’s (it was the spath) and i am reading that stuff with FULL knowledge now of who she is, that ‘they’ are all one and a growing knowledge of WHAT she is.

     funny, the ‘boy’ character who i loved was really great – see, it was split like THAT for me – thought I was dealing with a group of peeps, that were, in reality ALL HER. but he was the one who came across as enlightened. oh you wouldn’t believe the amazing qualities i attributed to him….AAARRRRGGGHH!

     fucker.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:11am

189. recovering says:

     One-step — How did this person have the time to live such a made-up, phony life with multiple characters?

     One thing I’m noticing about a lot of the stories with the S is that they put a lot of time into the relationships with the “love-bombing,” catering, calling a lot or texting. Talk about over-kill.

     Unless they are independently wealthy, how do they find the time to give that much attention to a new or multiple love interest?

     Definitely will be a red flag next time some guy wants to pursue me as much as my ex-N/S did or take up so much of my time/make me the center of his world. Seem to be part of their steps toward creating dependence on them and isolating the victim after a while. I’ll have to ask whether he has a legitimate life of his own.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:20am

190. henry says:

     Recovering – Yes virtual group therapy.. I am at almost 2 years no contact and I still find great comfort reading here. Your post are so ‘right were I am at now’ how long have you been no contact? I am questioning the N/S less and less because I dont care about him, but the more I learn about personalitys like him the better I am at setting boundaries and avoiding them.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:28am

191. one_step_at_a_time says:

     recovering:

     how she has time, I don’t honestly know…but she has been doing this shit for decades.

     She spent about 2 hours a day on the phone with me – then there were email and email from the sock puppets—-and she also had to deal with whoever else she was conning too.
     basically, the rest of us are just slackers

     I remember one day when i must have spent 5 or 6 hours with ‘him’ and the sock puppets. that was one of the ’suicide’ attempts.

     oh lordy, was i ever suckered in.

     I swear, no other personality could have gotten like ‘he’ did. but from what i have leanred here, ‘he’ was tailored for me, both as a risk taker with big empathy, and as the woman with the personal traits, likes, needs, desires and values I have.

     i don’t think she works. most con and sleaze there way around. lots of them have more than one ‘family’ at a time. oh, and i hear she has married (a man). no REALLY! But i think she only targets women, and as a man. here i was all excited that i met A BOY i liked. hahaha. wasn’t turned after all!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:33am

192. henry says:

     OneStep – you never physically met this person did you?

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:35am

193. one_step_at_a_time says:

     Henry –

     Noooooo, and I TRIED SOOO HARD, BUT HE KEPT DYYYYYING!

     I was on line and on phone since late march/early may. daily. with him and his 2 sisters and bf and bestfreind and ………….

     i met hm on a fetish website. his 24/7 dom was dying of cancer….so i responded to his journalling.

     he was supposedly AHDH, dissociative, ASD, hypoxic, had 2 open heart surgeries duirng this summer, had been abused by his dad and used to ‘pay’ his dad’s gambling debts, had been blah blah blah…………………………………………………………………………………..and on and on and on.

     AND the sweetest most open guilless creautre, whose ‘religion was kindness’ ( inkow the dali lama will forgive her that one)

     ‘he’ died in sept. then his incestuous sister killed herself 2 days later, then his ohter sister started up a relationship of friendship with me, then his new boyfriend killed himslef a month later, THEN ‘he’ rose from the dead and fucking called me on the phone.

     then his sister threatened me. then the lastes sock puppet threatened me online for about a week. I didn’t respond to this shit.

     she carries on unhindered online.

     She is a career spath. Someone else is suing her. I will help in any way I can.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:45am

194. one_step_at_a_time says:

     ouuuu, i left out the three suicide attempts AND the dying phone call.
     and the being airlifted to houston from ireland for experimental heart surgery………..

     and would you like to see my cache of 50 pictures of ‘him?’ someone else on the site says there were hundreds in total.
     I WANT TO KNOW WHOSE FUCKING LIFE SHE STOLE!

     I am quite pissed about this tonight.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:49am

195. henry says:

     OneStep – I didnt meet my X online..but after the split I spent way too much time on the net. At one point I had it turned off for about 6 months. It was very sobering. There is life with out the internet. I really came face to face with me. We can get caught up in the machine.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 1:01am

196. one_step_at_a_time says:

     henry:
     I am glad that you walked away from the machine.

     I have not spent much time online in terms of meeting people. a couple of months before i met my ex N, and about a week when I met the spath. pattern?

     It is hard to meet people – I know i have expressed this before to you. not only lesbo, but kinky, so not so easy in the small uni town. and i didn’t want to be alone anymore- spent 18 years alone. And i already belong to a gardening club

     I work online. I wish that I did not.

     I also have many contacts from traveling and living overseas, so the internet has always been a way to keep in touch with them. Because i traveled so much all my music is loaded on my laptop – i should burn some Cd’s so that i don’t have to fire up the computer.

     lots that lures me to it. and being real poor – it is a cheap way to entertain myself.

     yes, i spend too much time online.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 1:15am

197. henry says:

     I didnt mean to offend you.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 1:32am

198. henry says:

     I certainly understand how the computer can become our friend and companion and a source of intertainment. I have my addictions as well. I grew up in a world with out the machine and I can see the negative things it has done to me and the world just my humble opinion as I sit here staring into the box…

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 1:40am

199. one_step_at_a_time says:

     henry –

     you didn’t offend me.

     i didn’t touch a computer until i was 30…

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 2:10am

200. libelle says:

     Dear all, I have to vent again. X wrote me yesterday a card stating that he now is drinking the wine I brought when we were together for happy occasions, and which I told him a year ago (after the split up) either to bring to my sister who lives in the same town or to have them for himself (as a fee for the psychological help as an eye opener). He wrote that he wanted “to make it clear to me that he is now drinking those bottles, with good manners and dignity, i.e. without my girlfriend, and opening each bottle he cheers to my happiness. Kind regards, merry holidays and lots of love X.”

     I shivered while getting the letter out of the letter box yesterday, and just opened it today. It was a major trigger as he never ever referred me being HIS GIRLFRIEND (he always stated me being his PARTNER), and I felt sad. Not being part of his world anymore, imaging us drinking this wine in the corner of his cozy kitchen, with the special lamp he bought; but then I looked at the letter with the stamp on it with the airplane on it and I remembered the moment when the mask fell when he told me after a beautiful day when we were flying and he was the pilot that “he does not care who is in the back seat”!

     On friday I also had the yearly evaluation with my boss who for the first time acknowledged that I could have been mobbed by his crew and that he failed to prevent it (in the same breath he mentioned that it is my fault too!) Because I did not go to the commity on Mobbing in the hospital (no use as all the members are friends either with the boss or the main mobber), I got a special bonus for “Loyality”! And I made sure that he knows I have something in my hands to ruin his impeccable reputation as a marvelous boss. No use to waste any more energy on this jerk!

     And he has no clue that I will resign in 10 days or so!

     Thanks for letting me vent. I sure trashed the card of X, and I made a vow today not to open any of these poisonous messages from the past anymore but trash them unopened.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 6:01am

201. one_step_at_a_time says:

     libelel,

     i am so glad that you figured this out sooo quickly.

     I came to see that, ‘to make it clear, or i see clearly now, or I want to make sure you understand’ were preludes to sentences dripping with serious mind f*&kery; ALWAYS exceptionally manipulative.

     the spath i tangled with wrote a pulbic note to someone else she duped – a rant agaisnt the woman taking legal action against her, that ended with ‘love ya too. mean it too. and raise you a miss ya.’ THEY ARE JUST INSANE and I a glad that you are away from him.

     And VERY glad that you will be moving away from this horrid job situation. GOOD FOR YOU! HANG IN THERE!!

     one step

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 12:25pm

202. recovering says:

     Henry, congratulations on being almost 2 years no contact.
     My relationship lasted 1.5 years, but I have had limited phone contact with my ex in the last few months because I still owe him money he loaned me for my business — he checks in periodically, and I feel it’s rude for me to hang up on him (that would make me like an S, wouldn’t it? — to completely discard someone whom I still owe money). He is a N/S, but I also participated in the situation — the relationship dynamics and accepting the money from him.

     So I have NC physically. Like you, I find great comfort and support here at Lovefraud to keep my resolve to stay focused on learning and not get into the la-la land of false hopes. It’ll probably be 3 to 6 months before I can pay him back in full, even with deductions I’m taking out, which I told my ex I will do.

     I am able to practice boundaries with the ex even with periodic phone calls about repayment of money. Although I sometimes still chew him out, I cut the ex off when he attempts pity stuff. I remind myself that it was hard to have a healthy relationship with the equality and co-responsibility I need, and this is important for me as someone who has been working most of my adult life on recovering from co-dependency issues from my family-of-origin.

     I have embraced my own Shadow and love knowing I have a choice about how to think and behave. I simply trust myself more and no longer feel overly obligated to engage with toxic people beyond certain points, same as I set boundaries with some family members who are still in my life but do not directly impact my daily life. That brings freedom in itself to know one has options about terms of engagement — no more enmeshment, or feeling one has to carry most of the weight for such relationships — just let things be.

     In some ways, the experience with my ex served me well because it forced me to these new levels of self-awareness and taking greater ownership for my own well-being. So I’ve become less angry at him and see more of the blessings that have evolved, including less interest in co-dependency control tactics and more acceptance that there are different people in the world who want different things.

     Like you, the more I learn about personality disorders, the more I’ve moved away from being interested in potential mates who need “fixing” (this was an unconscious motive obviously — another result of being a caretaker in my family of origin where I had adult responsibilities as a child and “nurtured” several alcoholics in my family). No wonder I went on to get a master’s degree in the helping professions.

     So it is what it is. I understand why complete NC is the ideal –the blocks of time completely away from my ex have helped me mentally detox from the non-sense, and my current situation is manageable. I’m now doing lunch outings with new men, some with potential to become friends — a big step in knowing I’m slowly opening to new M/F relationships.

     I believe maintaining boundaries and knowing my limits will keep me clear about focusing on my needs while also respecting the right of others to be who they are — whether they want to grow and become mentally healthier or not is their choice.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 1:56pm

203. one_step_at_a_time says:

     recovering,

     my spath promised me money. i never thought about how that would be if it had actually come through . thanks for this post cause it gave me some info.

     i understand and applaud your sense of ethics re paying him back. and in my ‘death and destuction to all spaths phase’, i’d love it is ONE OF THEM LOST MONEY. forgive me. I am not suggesting it, just saying….;)

     one step

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 2:05pm

204. henry says:

     thanks to you all for being here.. I dont trust myself to let him talk to me – it’s about that twilight zone thing…I dont like that feeling of having to look over my shoulder again – two years and no sight of him – sheesh – my friend says I was the best thing that ever happened to him and he is trying to get his foot back in the door – i think it was LOOK at me _ I am fine with out you…

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 2:39pm

205. OxDrover says:

     Dear One-step,

     You mention reading or rereading e mails from the/a spath that targeted you.

     I suggest that you go NC with this person and that you do not either READ any of her blogs, or e mails or anything else. This person never really existed except as a FAKE, and rereading those e mails keeps you involved emotionally with this. The REASON that NC is so important is that it keeps them from being able to “reinjure” even emotionally our souls by contact with their toxic logic.

     I know it is “natural” to want to keep up with what they are doing or saying or posting on web sites, but I think strongly that if they are on a web site, we need to avoid it—what do we care what they say about us to people we really don’t know or interact with in RL. It is a cyber world, not the real world.

     While I “love” this site, if it began to give me pain and was frustration and fighting all teh time I would leave here. It is not worth it to get myself upset and stay that way. One of the reasons I have been around 2+ years is that Donna runs a good ship and there is seldom any flamming or problems here, but I left another site because it had too many frequent problems and I would do the same here if this became problematic.

     I have lots of “friends” here that I adore, and would lose contact with them if I left this site, but at the same time, if staying here was problematic, I am not going to tolerate problems in my life. I have removed REAL PEOPLE out of my life for drama and such, so removing a web site is NOTHING compared to that if it is TOXIC and painful.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 2:53pm

206. libelle says:

     Dear Henry, I just would like to repeat what my mother told me this morning as I told her about the “Happy letter” X was writing to me.

     X is NOT HAPPY!!! If X was happy he forgot about you and the rest of the world and would wish you the same happiness he is experiencing but he would not bother showing it to you. X wants to reel you back in in case the truck-guy kicks X out (and he will sooner or later kick X out!).

     “I dont trust myself to let him talk to me – it’s about that twilight zone thing”.

     I think you already talked to him BY NOT TALKING.

     Remember 80% of conversation is non verbal. You stepped out of the twilight into bright lights! Towanda, I just can repeat myself. You did great!!!

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 2:59pm

207. one_step_at_a_time says:

     hey oxy

     i am moving my way through this situation the best I can. reading and learning from the wisdom of others, and using my own wisdom.

     i went to that email because it was in my mind a lot – going to it allowed me to SEE her insanity. and that is important. and to put it here is a way to reveal it – to have support and let the light of day settle on it.

     i do not spend time on her sites. i went recently to catalogue things for the lawyer. i also do not spend time on the site where we met. this is a BIG shift from having gone several times a day compulsively just a few short weeks ago. I DO have someone watching her, and i am unravelling what that is about for me.

     ‘he’ was real to me. that although ‘he’ wasn’t in my physical life, ‘he’ was in my day to day life on phone for months. i am not removing a website- i am removing a person, no less real or fake than any other spath. Different than having them in hardcopy – yes. but, so what?

     I see the wisdom in NC. It takes as long as it takes each of us to come to different stages. respect that this is a process for me.

     (Report abusive comment)

     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 3:24pm

208. witsend says:

     One Step,
     Being emotionally invested with an S/P/N is being in love with an illusion, no matter how you look at it. So I have no doubt that your investment emotionally isn’t much different than anyone elses. When broken down it is like being in love with something that isn’t REAL anyways, even if there was a physical “body” involved.

     But the N/C part of it would be the same…..The reason N/C begins to help us detach is that we do not know of the daily drama/whereabouts/or ongoing affairs, cons or whatever the person in question might be doing.

     Even “hearing” this stuff from a third party of what is currently “going on” with your X can be harmful to you in the respect that it keeps “stirring the pot” so to speak.
     It is like picking the scab off of a wound every time it begins to heal….There is that “re-injury” everytime you hear “new” news about what they are “up to”.

     I think that is what Oxy was saying to you….

     You might have your reasons for not going complete N/C, but there will also be the side effects. And the side effects are that it will SLOW down the healing process considerably. And it is very easy to get “stuck” there.
     Any space in your head that is consumed with “them” is less space AVAILABLE for thoughts of you and what is in your best interest as far as healing goes. It keeps that anger simmering and other emotions you are feeling towards the X as well.
     Does that make sense to you?

     There really does have to come a time when it isn’t ABOUT them anymore. Not why they did do it to you or why they continue to do it to others.

     It is all easier said than done, of course. But by not having complete N/C it is almost impossible to not take up valuable space in your head. That is why this is something everyone here continues to talk about…..Total N/C is the only thing that has proven to be something that gives us the power that we need to take back, in order to move forward.

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 4:14pm

209. recovering says:

     one_step_at_a_time: thanks for getting that it is about my own sense of ethics re: paying someone back for a loan I got.

     I also understand your challenge about and reasons for not going complete N/C, and the potential “side effects” mentioned by witsend.

     I think being honest with yourself is the most important thing, especially when you have unfinished business with someone. I’m sure you will take Oxy’s comments into consideration as well.

     As someone who has occasional phone contact with movement toward full NC, I have to stay cognizant of the potential for sly manipulation from my ex in the form of being nice, because he was very helpful to me with work-related chores (my business is home-based). I know this could be risky, so want to be aware at potentially vulnerable times like when we have major snowfalls/ice and I need help shoveling or around the Holidays when most of my family is not nearby. My biggest challenge from the occasional call is to not allow myself to get irritated enough with non-sense from the ex that I might go into “counseling” mode –it helps when I tell him I’ll charge for the phone time and deduct more money from what I owe him. LOL

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 7:37pm

210. henry says:

     libelle Thanks. I have not felt that twilight zone thing for a long time, only when I think back to the whole toxic episode when he was here. I have moved on so far, I am really making progress in disecting what happened in my past life that brought me to that low point with him. I have been no contact close too two years. Has been a struggle but I feel like I had no other choice concerning him. You are right about verbal communication, if I knocked on someones door knowing they were standing on the other side refusing to answer, I think that would speak volumes to me. I have no third partys to convey any news about him. He is not happy, I could see that through my bamboo shades enuff to see that nasty scowl on his face. He is misersable. His family dont want anything to do with him on holidays, so I guess he is feeling unloved and decided to harass me for intertainment. But what you all here know about they way he has affected me, he will never know or care or understand. And I sure as hell will never let him know how much energy he has taken from me..hes a sad scarey guy, I tried to help him, but ….he see’s it like he has done nothing wrong – like he was the one that wronged…whats he doing driving 45 miles to see me if he has a beau at home?

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 7:55pm

211. henry says:

     recovering – the fact that you are repaying any debt to him – fair or unfair shows you respect yourself. And you are a good person despite the asshole he is…

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 8:06pm

212. recovering says:

     henry — thank you for your kind words. I’ve changed somewhat because of the TZ encounter with the N/S — I integrated my own Shadow in positive ways to serve me well with a little bit of edginess, no longer obligated to allow all who want to be part of my life to do so unless they are capable of reciprocal relating — but my core values remain in tact.

     So, your ex is driving 45 miles to see you even though he has a beau at home. And acting as if he’s done nothing wrong, like he was the one that wronged. You are definitely being tested after almost two years of NC.

     Do you still feel empathic/tugged at to want to help him in any way as you tried to do in the past?

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 8:35pm

213. OxDrover says:

     Dear Henry,

     To answer your question—he was just overcome with sentimentality about the cat he abandoned 2 years ago and he just had to come out and search for her here at Christmas time, he just couldn’t stand the thought of her being cold and hungry! LOL ROTFLMAO HA HA HA AH HA CHOKE, SNORT!

     Brings a tear to your eye about his caring, doesn’t it? NOT!!!!!

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 9:04pm

214. henry says:

     Nope – not in the least, glad he is doing well and driving a expensive truck, he was homeless and on foot with no drivers license when I took him on. I told him once ” why dont you find a sugar daddy with money instead of sticking around here pretending to love me just to keep a roof over your head?’ this just makes it even more apparent that he is heartless and mean spirited..

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 9:09pm

215. henry says:

     oops posted over you Oxy – my Nope response was to Recovering…Ox the fact that he walked around my house before knocking was ballsy..then he drove over to neighbors was even ballsyier as they know he is a physco… I noticed he didnt stop at the old hags place across the road to get him some tho – but her husband was home or he prolly would of..

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     Sunday, 20 December 2009 @ 9:13pm

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