Comments on: A deeper understanding of love, ourselves and the sociopath http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/ Wake up to the danger of sociopaths Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:06:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ox Drover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-151572 Ox Drover Wed, 01 Feb 2012 23:45:23 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-151572 Carriesguns, I am so sorry for both your daughter and you, and even her daughter. The pain continues to flow down the generations....you (and she) are not alone however, in this...there are many of us walking as best we can the pathway toward healing, stumbling sometimes, or falling down, but getting up to keep on going, moving, traveling toward that bright light in the distance. God bless. Carriesguns,

I am so sorry for both your daughter and you, and even her daughter. The pain continues to flow down the generations….you (and she) are not alone however, in this…there are many of us walking as best we can the pathway toward healing, stumbling sometimes, or falling down, but getting up to keep on going, moving, traveling toward that bright light in the distance. God bless.

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]]> By: carriesguns http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-151564 carriesguns Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:46:46 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-151564 beware the one who cares tooo much for your children. my twenty years ago spath/pedophile took my kids away from me while i worked all the time. (he was wonderful with the kids, i thought i was soo lucky) til i found out he was molesting my daughter...prior to that i had noticed he was always the rewards guy- always the one giving them the toys, the happy trips, leaving the hard stuff for me. at one point i realized my kids only minded me when he told them to. that was a massively horrible eye-opening experience; i started rebuilding things and ousting him and then came the wonderful revelation. however. things had already proceeded so far that - and bear with me here- he had planted a belief in my daughter's young being, that she should be the leading lady of the house...including making decisions, bossing people, all that....lol. and the thing is that she became subltly very competitive with me, her mother. Divide and conquer- to an unimaginable level...same-sex competitiveness, jealousy, the whole realm there. not something in my persona, nor my familial patterns ever. but very definitely in his... i set about "fly-fishing" to retrieve my daughter & her love & trust...and to keep her from leaving home at fifteen, when he went to jail. (this was all from the late 80's to early 90's & there was little /no mainstream awareness of dealing with sociopathic types then, and he could "handle" brilliant beautiful attorneys with one hand tied behind his back) it is only now that i see the long-term ramifications of this. when my daughter's daughter was 2, her father jokingly told her to go call mommy a "b". jokingly...poor taste, but still a joke. and my daughter massively overreacted. and from that little "trigger" came an onslaught of little dynamics that sublty eroded the granddaughter's/daughter's relationship, all without my daughter's awareness of all this too. it became a normal-but-troubled relationship, not obviously, but you could just feel it. i hung around, as a sort of buffer, not even realizing i also was triggering "schtuff" for my daughter, who also didn't realize. until other massively traumatic events happened, at which point she succumbed to internal stresses to the point that my 29-yr old type a personality little hard working, climbing the corporate ladder healthy daughter suddenly collapsed, turned into a physically 90 year old and couldn't even walk up stairs. and was in intense chronic pain. diagnosed with fibromyalgia. at the pain clinic where they did a very thorough intake, the doctor stated that ever single chronic pain/fibromyalgia patient he had -- had a history of molestation as a child. 100%. and counselors? omg. they are just clueless, at least in the midwestern part of the country or the ones we have found. after a divorce, a succession of little life shipwrecks, and the realization she had married a "soul-sucker" herself (N) ..my daughter is dealing with her issues in a very determined way, just falls down again at certain crucial points. i have been close to keep an eye on the developing relationship with her daughter, and only lately realized the extent of internal stress just my presence causes (we do love each other a tremendous amount) now she is again engaged, and is moving far away from me, and the move is causing huge meltdowns for both of us. lol. thanks for listening! 100,000th meltdown here! love you guys for being here, it has been a long and lonely path for me! i surf on here, and try to say little, the explosion of awareness of these people is almost keeping up with the damage they do (not!) but it is so great to not think i really am queen of paranoia & all by myself anymore!! beware the one who cares tooo much for your children. my twenty years ago spath/pedophile took my kids away from me while i worked all the time. (he was wonderful with the kids, i thought i was soo lucky) til i found out he was molesting my daughter…prior to that i had noticed he was always the rewards guy- always the one giving them the toys, the happy trips, leaving the hard stuff for me. at one point i realized my kids only minded me when he told them to. that was a massively horrible eye-opening experience; i started rebuilding things and ousting him and then came the wonderful revelation.
however. things had already proceeded so far that – and bear with me here- he had planted a belief in my daughter’s young being, that she should be the leading lady of the house…including making decisions, bossing people, all that….lol.
and the thing is that she became subltly very competitive with me, her mother.
Divide and conquer- to an unimaginable level…same-sex competitiveness, jealousy, the whole realm there. not something in my persona, nor my familial patterns ever. but very definitely in his… i set about “fly-fishing” to retrieve my daughter & her love & trust…and to keep her from leaving home at fifteen, when he went to jail. (this was all from the late 80′s to early 90′s & there was little /no mainstream awareness of dealing with sociopathic types then, and he could “handle” brilliant beautiful attorneys with one hand tied behind his back)
it is only now that i see the long-term ramifications of this. when my daughter’s daughter was 2, her father jokingly told her to go call mommy a “b”. jokingly…poor taste, but still a joke. and my daughter massively overreacted. and from that little “trigger” came an onslaught of little dynamics that sublty eroded the granddaughter’s/daughter’s relationship, all without my daughter’s awareness of all this too. it became a normal-but-troubled relationship, not obviously, but you could just feel it. i hung around, as a sort of buffer, not even realizing i also was triggering “schtuff” for my daughter, who also didn’t realize.
until other massively traumatic events happened, at which point she succumbed to internal stresses to the point that my 29-yr old type a personality little hard working, climbing the corporate ladder healthy daughter suddenly collapsed, turned into a physically 90 year old and couldn’t even walk up stairs.
and was in intense chronic pain. diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
at the pain clinic where they did a very thorough intake, the doctor stated that ever single chronic pain/fibromyalgia patient he had — had a history of molestation as a child. 100%.
and counselors? omg. they are just clueless, at least in the midwestern part of the country or the ones we have found.
after a divorce, a succession of little life shipwrecks, and the realization she had married a “soul-sucker” herself (N) ..my daughter is dealing with her issues in a very determined way, just falls down again at certain crucial points. i have been close to keep an eye on the developing relationship with her daughter, and only lately realized the extent of internal stress just my presence causes (we do love each other a tremendous amount)
now she is again engaged, and is moving far away from me, and the move is causing huge meltdowns for both of us.
lol.
thanks for listening! 100,000th meltdown here! love you guys for being here, it has been a long and lonely path for me! i surf on here, and try to say little, the explosion of awareness of these people is almost keeping up with the damage they do (not!) but it is so great to not think i really am queen of paranoia & all by myself anymore!!

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]]> By: Ox Drover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135089 Ox Drover Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:53:53 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135089 Justus5, we ALL are/were confused about the future. Without a crystal ball and without being psychic there's no way to see the future either way and "there are no guarantees in life" that is for sure. I definitely understand your fear of the future---probably financially (I'm just guessing here) and in many other ways as well, I think you have kids to raise---how will they react? How will this all impact them? That's also part of the collateral damage they do to our lives and the lives of the ones we love. Keep on reading and learning about psychopaths and about how to heal to help you make decisions. Making THE decision to get away from an abusive mate IS A BIG ONE I understand. But just like no one ever died and thought "I wish I'd spent more time at the office" no one ever approached their death bed and said "I'm glad I stayed with that psychopath." Justus5, we ALL are/were confused about the future. Without a crystal ball and without being psychic there’s no way to see the future either way and “there are no guarantees in life” that is for sure. I definitely understand your fear of the future—probably financially (I’m just guessing here) and in many other ways as well, I think you have kids to raise—how will they react? How will this all impact them? That’s also part of the collateral damage they do to our lives and the lives of the ones we love.

Keep on reading and learning about psychopaths and about how to heal to help you make decisions. Making THE decision to get away from an abusive mate IS A BIG ONE I understand. But just like no one ever died and thought “I wish I’d spent more time at the office” no one ever approached their death bed and said “I’m glad I stayed with that psychopath.”

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]]> By: justus5 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135081 justus5 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:53:11 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135081 Oxy-I have come to the point of excepting responsility for my sitiuation. I think everyday about how to get out of the mess that I have allowed him to create. Still afraid and confused though about the future. Oxy-I have come to the point of excepting responsility for my sitiuation. I think everyday about how to get out of the mess that I have allowed him to create. Still afraid and confused though about the future.

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]]> By: Ox Drover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135061 Ox Drover Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:17:33 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135061 Well, justus5, I guess "better the devil you know than the one you don't know" but if you choose to live "with it" instead of to make a life for yourself independently, then that is your choice. I chose that course with a lot of relation-shits, but I realized finally that FOR ME I would rather live in a tent and eat out of a McDonald's dumpster than to live any where near a psychopath. I found out that I don't need anyone (especially a psychopath) in my life that doesn't cherish me as I deserve to be cherished. Life is much nicer now. Well, justus5, I guess “better the devil you know than the one you don’t know” but if you choose to live “with it” instead of to make a life for yourself independently, then that is your choice. I chose that course with a lot of relation-shits, but I realized finally that FOR ME I would rather live in a tent and eat out of a McDonald’s dumpster than to live any where near a psychopath.

I found out that I don’t need anyone (especially a psychopath) in my life that doesn’t cherish me as I deserve to be cherished. Life is much nicer now.

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]]> By: Ox Drover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135060 Ox Drover Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:15:12 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135060 Dear One/Joy, I know what you mean, kiddo, I sure as HELL DIDN'T COME ACROSS NORMAL...even my therapist thought I was a paranoid nut jobber! LOL And so did the attorney I hired to represent me at Patrick's parole hearing...untiil he got the package of documents I sent him! LOL Anyone who is "normal" and goes into corrections work will not stay normal long. I firmly believe that working around or with these people does a NUMBER on your mind and sanity. It is like working in a pit of vipers, you get to where you cannot walk around a GARDEN HOSE without jumping. PTSD? I do NOT doubt that one bit. AFter my son was caught with a cell phone in his cell (smuggled in of course and actually a felony) he got kicked out of craft shop, and I had to drive 16 hours one way to pick up his gear (several thousands of dollars worth of equipment and supplies) a bunch of expensive leather had been "missing" from his stuff and the warden and the major got together and called me into the warden's office....and the warden was talking to me like I was a convict, I said very nicely "Please don't talk to me in that tone of voice, I am a citizen, not a convict." I thought the warden was going to come across his desk at me, he SCREAMED at me to "get out of my office now!" The major was playing the "good cop" and when I made arrangements for a time to pick up the stuff, he had 4 trollies of stuff with inmates pushing them and he told me I'd have to load it myself....some of it was HEAVY...and so I didn't bite, I just got up in the back of the truck with the first box and started to put it in the bed of the truck. I think he thought I'd beg him to get the inmates to load it, but I didn't, so he smiled and said "get down, I'll get them to load it." Patrick actually had a sexual relationship with a married female major at one place he was housed, she came into the visiting room when we were there once and you could see the "sparks" flying between their eyes. OPENLY FLIRTING. A secretary there a few years ago had a sexual relationship with an inmate AND an officer, and she and the inmate were both found dead in a closet...supposedly the inmate killed her and then cut his own throat, but Patrick thought the officer killed them both. I don't doubt it. I used to be so worried about him, cause he is a small white guy in a tough prison system that is primarily black and Hispanic and the racial divide is rigid...gangs, etc. and he's been beaten up a bunch of times and severely injured, but I no longer worry, he got himself into that place and he can have the consequences as far as I am concerned. He is still better off than the girl he murdered. I'm not sure who is the worst danger in prisons, the guards or the other inmates...but it is a PhD program for psychopaths any way you slice it. In a lot of ways, it gives them the perfect environment, constant risk and games to play with each other. My son is "good at it" and knows all the ins and outs of smuggling stuff in and conning the system. BFD (big farking deal)---he's the smartest inmate in the place, but he's nothing but a not so successful small time thug and murderer. He had enough brains to have invented the cure for cancer, or to have been Bill Gates, and he CHOSE to be a thug. His loss and mine too, only he doesn't have sense enough to realize it. Just like that sociopath that wrote the letter to Donna. Dear One/Joy,

I know what you mean, kiddo, I sure as HELL DIDN’T COME ACROSS NORMAL…even my therapist thought I was a paranoid nut jobber! LOL And so did the attorney I hired to represent me at Patrick’s parole hearing…untiil he got the package of documents I sent him! LOL

Anyone who is “normal” and goes into corrections work will not stay normal long. I firmly believe that working around or with these people does a NUMBER on your mind and sanity. It is like working in a pit of vipers, you get to where you cannot walk around a GARDEN HOSE without jumping. PTSD? I do NOT doubt that one bit.

AFter my son was caught with a cell phone in his cell (smuggled in of course and actually a felony) he got kicked out of craft shop, and I had to drive 16 hours one way to pick up his gear (several thousands of dollars worth of equipment and supplies) a bunch of expensive leather had been “missing” from his stuff and the warden and the major got together and called me into the warden’s office….and the warden was talking to me like I was a convict, I said very nicely “Please don’t talk to me in that tone of voice, I am a citizen, not a convict.” I thought the warden was going to come across his desk at me, he SCREAMED at me to “get out of my office now!” The major was playing the “good cop” and when I made arrangements for a time to pick up the stuff, he had 4 trollies of stuff with inmates pushing them and he told me I’d have to load it myself….some of it was HEAVY…and so I didn’t bite, I just got up in the back of the truck with the first box and started to put it in the bed of the truck. I think he thought I’d beg him to get the inmates to load it, but I didn’t, so he smiled and said “get down, I’ll get them to load it.”

Patrick actually had a sexual relationship with a married female major at one place he was housed, she came into the visiting room when we were there once and you could see the “sparks” flying between their eyes. OPENLY FLIRTING. A secretary there a few years ago had a sexual relationship with an inmate AND an officer, and she and the inmate were both found dead in a closet…supposedly the inmate killed her and then cut his own throat, but Patrick thought the officer killed them both. I don’t doubt it.

I used to be so worried about him, cause he is a small white guy in a tough prison system that is primarily black and Hispanic and the racial divide is rigid…gangs, etc. and he’s been beaten up a bunch of times and severely injured, but I no longer worry, he got himself into that place and he can have the consequences as far as I am concerned. He is still better off than the girl he murdered. I’m not sure who is the worst danger in prisons, the guards or the other inmates…but it is a PhD program for psychopaths any way you slice it. In a lot of ways, it gives them the perfect environment, constant risk and games to play with each other. My son is “good at it” and knows all the ins and outs of smuggling stuff in and conning the system. BFD (big farking deal)—he’s the smartest inmate in the place, but he’s nothing but a not so successful small time thug and murderer. He had enough brains to have invented the cure for cancer, or to have been Bill Gates, and he CHOSE to be a thug. His loss and mine too, only he doesn’t have sense enough to realize it. Just like that sociopath that wrote the letter to Donna.

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]]> By: justus5 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135059 justus5 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:03:34 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135059 Oxy-Your opinion is appreciated. I finally managed to quit being insanely drawn into his dance of anger and fighting, his twisting of reality. I can see him for what he is now I am stuck in fear of being on my own and fear of the nastiness I would have to deal with after a divorce. Oxy-Your opinion is appreciated. I finally managed to quit being insanely drawn into his dance of anger and fighting, his twisting of reality. I can see him for what he is now I am stuck in fear of being on my own and fear of the nastiness I would have to deal with after a divorce.

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]]> By: one/joy_step_at_a_time http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135056 one/joy_step_at_a_time Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:56:55 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135056 oxy - one of the first 'people outside of lovefraud and my immediate circle i told about the spath was an employment counselor. i was booked in to do a mock interview for the job i have now. i wanted to know if i came across 'normal enough' - because i sure as hell didn't feel normal or think that i came across as normal. he was a (youngish) retired corrections guy - he had taught in the prisons. we immediately got into talking about spathy as soon as I knew where he used to work. it was such a relief to tell someone out in the world and to gain his assurance that i came across as 'normal enough', even though i was so mind******. he was deeply affected by working in corrections. it almost ruined his life - he became quite paranoid about everyone - didn't want anyone (including his own family, whom he trusted) around his kids....he has PTSD as his parting gift from corrections. he's a really really nice guy, who has seen way too much evil in this life. oxy – one of the first ‘people outside of lovefraud and my immediate circle i told about the spath was an employment counselor. i was booked in to do a mock interview for the job i have now. i wanted to know if i came across ‘normal enough’ – because i sure as hell didn’t feel normal or think that i came across as normal.

he was a (youngish) retired corrections guy – he had taught in the prisons. we immediately got into talking about spathy as soon as I knew where he used to work. it was such a relief to tell someone out in the world and to gain his assurance that i came across as ‘normal enough’, even though i was so mind******.

he was deeply affected by working in corrections. it almost ruined his life – he became quite paranoid about everyone – didn’t want anyone (including his own family, whom he trusted) around his kids….he has PTSD as his parting gift from corrections. he’s a really really nice guy, who has seen way too much evil in this life.

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]]> By: Ox Drover http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135053 Ox Drover Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:30:29 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135053 Dear Justus5, My opinion, for what it is worth is that if we continue to associate with them once we know what they are, WE are the ones that are INSANE. We just keep doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. That is the definition of "insanity." As long as you associate with them, their contagion will rub off on YOU. It is impossible to have a normal life with a psychopath intimately involved in your life. JMHO. Dear Justus5,

My opinion, for what it is worth is that if we continue to associate with them once we know what they are, WE are the ones that are INSANE. We just keep doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. That is the definition of “insanity.”

As long as you associate with them, their contagion will rub off on YOU. It is impossible to have a normal life with a psychopath intimately involved in your life. JMHO.

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]]> By: justus5 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/comment-page-7/#comment-135048 justus5 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 01:20:25 +0000 http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/04/20/a-deeper-understanding-of-love-ourselves-and-the-sociopath/#comment-135048 Oxy-you said admormal becomes normal (when you are around them). It's funny how quickly I began to except my P's bs when he rolls in once every two weeks. I try to keep my guard up and see most of it for what it is but when he leaves I shake my head at EVERTHING. Someone said someowhere not insane just a sociopath. Thinking mine IS insane. Oxy-you said admormal becomes normal (when you are around them). It’s funny how quickly I began to except my P’s bs when he rolls in once every two weeks. I try to keep my guard up and see most of it for what it is but when he leaves I shake my head at EVERTHING. Someone said someowhere not insane just a sociopath. Thinking mine IS insane.

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