A deeper understanding of love, ourselves and the sociopath
PDF Although we think of love as an emotion, it is really more like a drive. Emotions come and go, whereas drives, like love, tend to persist. All emotions are associated with distinct facial expressions, whereas love is not. Love (like all of the basic drives I have discussed in this blog) is difficult to control. Furthermore, the most recent scientific research indicates that all drives, including love, are associated with activation of the brain pathway called the mesolimbic dopamine pathway.
Attraction: the first stage of love
Love, like other drives, is associated with wanting to get something. That something we are talking about here is a partner. The first stage of love, then, involves seeking out a partner. Scientists have called this the attraction phase. It is important for each person to understand how the attraction phase works within himself/herself. There are both conscious and unconscious parts to attraction.
The attraction phase involves the senses, primarily sight and smell. There may be chemicals that activate the brain through smell that we are not consciously aware of. Similarly, we may like the way someone looks and not be sure why. Our conscious mind and unconscious mind may be looking for different things in a partner. The unconscious mind plays a big role in our partner selection process.
It is important to realize that we can be taken over and captivated by attraction. Some of the symptoms of attraction or falling in love are “butterflies in the stomach,” clammy hands and racing heart. These symptoms are direct evidence of the physical nature of the love drive.
There is pleasure associated with getting the objects of our drives. In the brain, this pleasure involves many important chemicals like dopamine and the endorphins. Contact with the lover is also pleasurable because it releases oxytocin. This chemical produces reward by calming us down. (It doesn’t matter that it is the lover’s fault that we need calming.) Oxytocin is a powerful, natural anti-anxiety chemical.
The attraction phase usually lasts no more than 18 months. The reason for this is that it is too consuming. People have to be able to function, and when our energies are over focused on a lover, we aren’t as productive in other areas. Furthermore, the attraction phase has only one purpose. That is to get us hooked. When the pleasure chemicals and anxiety relieving chemicals are released in the brain, a compulsion is formed. That compulsion is to be with the lover. So the love that starts out as pleasure in the company of the lover becomes a compulsion. When the compulsion phase sets in, we feel compelled to stay with our lover no matter what. That is when we know “bonding” has taken place.
So the stages of love basically involve attraction, followed by great pleasure, followed by bonding. I would add a fourth stage, caretaking. Normal people feel an urge to take care of others toward whom they feel bonded.
Sociopaths and love
Ability to love, then, involves attraction, pleasure, bonding and caretaking. How is the sociopath’s experience of love different from what I have described? First, I never met a sociopath who did not do exactly what he/she wanted. I have to conclude from this that the attraction phase operates relatively normally in the sociopath. In fact, many sociopaths hang around only as long as the attraction phase lasts. There is evidence that emotional arousal is abnormal in sociopaths. So I would also assume they experience the pleasures of attraction without the “butterflies.”
It is blatantly obvious that sociopaths do not bond in the usual sense. Their love drive is thus stuck in the attraction gear and they can go no further than attraction. But don’t stop there! As the sociopath experienced the pleasures of his/her latest object of attraction, his/her drive for conquest was also activated.
The sociopath simultaneously experiences pleasure in attraction and pleasure in conquest or power. In other words, although the sociopath cannot form a love bond, he/she can acquire a possession which he/she strongly believes belongs to him/her.
If I enjoy something and I work very hard to get that thing, it is mine! I feel entitled to something I enjoy and work for. That thing also should keep giving me pleasure and satisfaction in order to stay wanted. If a possession is no longer pleasant and appealing to me, I throw it in the garbage. Now, if someone breaks in and tries to steal my possessions, I am angry and feel violated. Does any of this sound familiar?
Unlike the caretaking of the true love bond, the caretaking behavior of sociopaths is only self serving. I take care of my stuff because I have to. If I want people to envy me, I make the outside of my house look good and wax my car. Then people driving by see the great looking house with the new car in the driveway and think I really have it made. My stuff gives me status. If I don’t take care of my stuff, my status goes down.
So again we see that although sociopaths have a rudimentary love drive, in the end their drives are all about power and status. Don’t be fooled by the occasional care taking behavior, it is not motivated by empathy or a true love bond.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
icanseeclearlynow says:
miss k – His mother is just as effed up as he his. The ex sociopath I was with had his sister call me from across the country in an effort to get back together. I told her everything he did including beating me. After going on and on about her own effed up relationship and how I should be more supportive and understanding of him…blah blah blah she asked me, “Did you hit him back?” I was shocked by this question. The guy practically knocked me out cold and then proceded to threaten me further while was I was down on the floor in mortal fear, with his fist in my face. I said, “No.” Her twisted reply to that was, “Well, good.” Yeah…a perfect victim.
(Report abusive comment)
myboysmattermost says:
Thanks all…I just could not believe the progression of the messages when I told him I had moved on…and how untrue his accusations are and probably just to bait me and hurt me…that is what led me to this site and a beginning to understanding what his true intentions are.
I have an attorney who is not representing me (he cut off all my access to our funds) but I am filing pro-se and he is looking over my paperwork. I have laid it out exactly as I want it to happen as it appears I may get a default judgement. I am also thinking of waiving child support for him to sign the waiver of citation as I don’t think I will see it anyway and it will give him a “trade off” so he will leave me alone. I am not yet ready to date but I don’t feel it is right to bring this kind of drama into another man’s life when I am ready…I just want to be rid of him and my boys do too. My 12 year old does not want visitation but I put in supervised visits only so I appear fair to the judge…??
His mom has been horrible and we lived 2000 miles away most of our marriage, towards the end though, he was spending hours on the phone with her each day and she was telling him I was having an affair and I loved my boys more than him…
His sisters also live with his mom (in their 50′s) and have horrible prescription drug habits…
My mom is worried I am going to lose my trusting nature and I am not sure…it seems this is what got me into this horrible mess in the first place…but I think if I give myself time to heal and grow and pay attention as outlined on this site that I will end up with the man I deserve…at least I hope so!!
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
So Ive been reading some of the posts as I had a meltdown on Tuesday of last week. I have comments…
This bait and hook theor is right on. After my ex broke up with me and almost 2 months of NC…and poems written to me and sent to me…but never responded to…we spoke (this was a while ago) via text. His ‘concern’ was clear right away…”I thought you were leaving me behind” (he had no license and I was picking him up all weekend long–told him I had enough—he broke up with me…among other things too).
In any case, he tried guilting me for setting boundaries. Fine. He also was VERY concerned over whether or not I was ‘seeing’ anyone new or if I had ‘gone on any dates’ during out breakup. I hadnt but didnt tell him this and responded very evasively with ‘thats not the issue…the issue is that now IM pissed that you can call and demand I explain MYSELF to YOU”.
He ‘babied’ me this and that, sent pictures of himself ‘missin me’ at home and work, blagh, blagh, blagh for a little while. I had to tell him what my family decided regardign him…he was no longer welcome at my parents home…a place he seemed to LOVE to go. This pissed him off soooooo bad and he delcared this ‘wasnt gonna work’ for him then and again DEMANDED I talk with my ma and dad and tell him things were ‘fine’. Of course, I didnt and told him I wouldnt.
So, we ‘dated’ again for about another 2 months and in that time I began to see SO clearly who he was despite the fact he ‘wanted this more than anything’. He wasnt able to hold himself together for ANY time this time around and I began to question whether or not who he presented this time was even who he was when we broke up! It had progressed so much in such a short time.
I have had NC since November 11, 2009-which even sounds like a recovering substance abusers “ive been SOBER since…” I have a bad of belongings he has not called for which I find strange. It is only clothes and shoes, although, Im torn with understanding why he hasnt wanted to get them.
When we broke up in June, he immediately asked when he could get his stuff. Maybe its because I initiated the NC this time and for him to contact me it would be like HE”S vulnerable?
It sounds so trivial, but its been weighing on me. Does this make sense to anyone?
(Report abusive comment)
timeheals says:
robx
It’s probably his way of keeping a connection…his clothes are there…then HE is there. And since HE is always in control (in his mind anyway), he will call or not and get the clothes, or not! The only thing that makes sense with them, is they do whatever in their pea sized brains they think will benefit them somehow in the long run. It’s been said here over and over…they do what they do, because THAT is what they do. In a nutshell…
Congrats on NC, but I can see how having the clothes leaves that door open…do you send them to him etc…how about you throw hi…I mean them in the incinerator and if he ever does ask…don’t respond…and if you have to respond simply say “I don’t have your clothes” HAH!
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
Yeah, timeheals:
I am giving it til Feb 11 (90 days…my ma works for the public defenders office!)…but that bag of his shit in my hallway is wearing on me. I NEED to get rid of it…
I thought about that too..the connection being kept. I can see him texting something like ‘hey, do you still have those nice dress shoes of mine?” just to get a response when he’s really needing some attention…it makes sense and sometimes I think I just need validation regardign MY reality…
I will have NO contact with him…EVER AGAIN! I can be a stubborn bitch
and this is ONE time it will come in handy! In a text he had sent me after he broke up with me, I had said something about not gving up on the realtionship and he said ‘yes you did, you just couldnt see it’.
In texting, I said something about having boundaries and him not liking that…his exact response was this “we both want and need different things from a partner. Your boundaries blocked out alot of what I needed most”.
Ive not been able to sort out what he needed most…that he didnt think he got.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
robxsykobabe: hi darlin!
yup, the clothes are his foot in the door.
and what are they to you? some vestige of……? and …………..?
and ……………………………?
I know, i know. hugs,
one step
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
robxsykobabe –
we posted over one another.
‘Ive not been able to sort out what he needed most…that he didnt think he got.’ well, that would be every last drop of your energy.
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
One Step:
You know what they are to me? They are sad reminders of a person who I THOUGHT was there…who really isn’t. As they lay in the GARBAGE bag they were put in, items neatly folded by me, but thrown around carelessly, they are symbols of my attempts at construting order out of chaos while he sat and did nothing. OHHHH WEEEEEEE…where in the hell did that just come from! IM HEALED…IM HEALED
Seriously…I welcome the day that he tries to make contact and I AGAIN can NOT answer…just because I can!
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
One STep:
So what youre saying is my ‘boundaries’ which defined him from me were solid and healthy enough and what he ‘needed’ (which still TRIPS me out) was for me to have no boundaries which would mean he had FULL access to my entire life…money, car, house, food, whatever! What kind of idiot jagoff thinks people do that?
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
response to your last post:
Yup,
and Spaths.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
This whole post is SO AWESOME robxsykobabe !!!!!
You know what they are to me? They are sad reminders of a person who I THOUGHT was there…who really isn’t. As they lay in the GARBAGE bag they were put in, items neatly folded by me, but thrown around carelessly, they are symbols of my attempts at construting order out of chaos while he sat and did nothing. OHHHH WEEEEEEE…where in the hell did that just come from! IM HEALED…IM HEALED
Seriously…I welcome the day that he tries to make contact and I AGAIN can NOT answer…just because I can!
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
Strangely enough, he constantly tried ‘doggin’ me for these boundaries I had…or he called them walls–not realizing he HAD keys to my house, I allowed his child to come over when he had him, he showered at my house, washed his clothes, ate my food, etc…and in HEALTHY relationships you dont have EVERYTHING of each others…
What a f*%$tard!
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
ouu, that’s my new fave swear word!
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
Im here to help!
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
(Report abusive comment)
timeheals says:
nice swearword…haha it’s the language of love…….fraud! Just like relationshit and TOWANDA. I personally like to refer to their hissy fits as spath rath…anyone have other terms they like??
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
I am particularly fond of my ‘spath spit’ (residual of their toxin)
Well, and ‘spath’ – which i read/say as s-p-a-t-h, and not sociopath.
I say i have been ‘s-p-a-t-h-e-d.’
like Oxy’s ‘pithed off’.
(Report abusive comment)
timeheals says:
eeewwwww makes ya want to take a shower don’t it? might as well get spewed on by some alien winged lizard thing…same diffefence
(Report abusive comment)
robxsykobabe says:
makes me want to scream at his family too and tell them EVERYTHING he’s done…at one time THEY were his victims and he caused MUCH damage to their relationships.
they are just as sick as he, although in order to keep him in their lives, they must have to be. his mother will NOT acknowledge what he’s done to me, only how he’s affected her life…and then say she just ‘loves’ him so much.
how long can a family continue keeping his lies? i had a really hard time accepting that his family keeps their mouths shut about him at ALL costs. i knew NOTHING about any of his shit, other than what HE told me…and hes a liar. after datign for 3 years and having conversations with his mom, the person who dealt with all his shit, wouldnt you think she would share something with me?
his sister told me one time ‘(my ex)caused so much problems between my mom and I that we didnt talk for 3 months.” but NO ONE ever told me what those problems were!
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
robxsykobabe – i wonder if they keep quiet out of shame.
(Report abusive comment)
TooLate says:
I’m confused. Does the spath really feel attraction to the other person?
I met my Spath online … “back in the day” before dating sites. The only news stories you heard about people meeting online were those where someone set up a meeting and later one of them was found dead.
I was not looking for a significant other when I met my Spath, and he claimed the same. But looking back, I think he was looking for a victim. I think he was looking for someone with a good income to support him and to help care for his teenage son.
After my first divorce, I put myself through LPN school. I made a decent income, had a brand new car, a brand new computer, and had just begun my “online experiences”. I was naive.
I was honest online and didn’t hide anything about myself.
Although the first year with him was blissful for me … I distinctly remember him trying to tone down my physical desires toward him.
Later in the marriage, I often felt that, to him, I was only a paycheck. He rationalized staying home so our children wouldn’t have to be in daycare. I now believe that he was simply lazy. As though his only goal was to find some stupid idiot to work a lot of overtime so he could sit on around for years and do nothing. When the kids started school, he did work, but always for cash under the table … and his working relationship with those that hired him always went sour in a hurry. He often worked only a couple of hours a day, but billed his employers for an entire 8 hours. They were not there … so of course they didn’t really know how long he worked.
Looking back, I honestly doubt that he ever held any desire or affection toward me. I think he did only what he felt he had to do to lure me in and set my adoration and love for him solidly in place … and then he quit trying. Once I was hooked, he didn’t need to. His excuses were believable at first … and years went by before I really started to question the truth. I wanted him to want me so badly that I was blind. He still told me he loved me, but all physical signs of affection disappeared completely.
I kept the flame of hope for far too long. When I started to become depressed, he’s hold out a little carrot of hope … just enough to keep me there longer.
How stupid could I be? Never again!!!!! NEVER!
(Report abusive comment)
midlifecrisis says:
I have a word for the rage = “spath attack” or “going spathstick” lol sorry I know it isn’t funny at all but I have to laugh sometimes or I will go mad!
TooLate – mine used me for sex and money and a personal maid, life coach, organiser, cook, cleaner, tidy upper, laundress, counsellor, friend, parent and any other way he could use me. It was actually when I pulled away from the sex that I started to see things a lot more clearly. The sex he used as a kind of ‘romantic and intense bonding experience’ – of course it was nothing of the kind for him, but for me – it was the ONLY form of intimacy I got. Any and all touching had to be sexual – he wouldn’t just hug or kiss me without trying to make it lead somewhere. At first it made me feel sexy but pretty quickly it was abusive – he would sulk and tantrum if I said NO.
I think he kind of knew the sex was a complicating factor and was ‘keeping me under a spell’ as he tried to keep it going even when I split with him. I couldn’t though as I was totally repelled by his character by that point and I am not the kind of woman who can engage in sex without feelings – I don’t see anything casual in it at all. As soon as I was able to stop the sex, I really started to see him clearly for what he was – a sick man who cared nothing for me or my feelings.
Research on sex proves that oxytocin released at the point of orgasm and from contact with semen induces deeper bonding for women – less so for men and zilch for the psychopath. It is a snuggle substance – makes us feel warm and safe and bonded. Some part of me knew I couldn’t see clearly while we were still sleeping together. So although you might be bemoaning the lack of it, things would have been much more complex with lots of sex.
He was definitely a parasite to you – leeching off you in such blatant ways. You have leverage over him though if you ever need it in the future – find out if there would be any implications for you re taxation if you reported his under the table earnings. Don’t report if it will harm you … but you can always use it as a suggestion with him if things turn really nasty. Just drop a hint
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
One-step, No, they have NO SHAME. NEVER. But they are capable of inducing false shame in others. I am a witness to this.How is it, now that Ive “blown the whistle ‘ on my spath daughter, and tried to make contactthru Facebook with a former so called “girfriend’and boozing buddy of hers.I did this,{foolishly,} In order to try to get some kind of explanation or closure of my daughter and the GF trashing my home and studio all these years ago. Neither of them has EVER said they were sorry for this. Now the GF has “ratted” to my daughter, who has stripped her name of every contact I know and gone “underground”. How is it that its ME who now feels shame and guilt, not her? WTF??WHY??
This is gaslighting, something she did to me for years and years, but then I didnt know what it was. Just felt like I was losing my mind, and going stir crazy.Even her ex is now saying to me, “M, she is never going to change or apologise to you, maybe it would be easier if you just accepted her the way she is?” WHAT!?? Act like 30 years of lies, abuse ,con tricks, gaslighting, fleecing me of thousands of dollars, wrecking my home and art studio,IM SUPPOSED TO ACT LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED?? Play,”Lets pretend, give her the upper hand and power again, be her stooge, slave and doormat? her whipping boy??NO NO NO!!NEVER AGAIN!!Knowledge is power, Im on to her now! Shes a n A! super BITCH! She doesnt love me, shes never loved me, not since around the age of 10, maybe. She is POISON to my stricken soul.Shes NOT my dear little girl any longer, shes the enemy, and believe me, she HATES me. She is TOXIC to me. I know I cant see her ever again, and as a MUm, this still shocks me. Im in a double bind. Im glad Im fairly strong mentally, I think a weaker person would go stark staring mad with all of this. Love, Gem.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
(((((((((GEM))))))))))) – there are limitations to this forum; you and I are far away from one another and are talking through electronic waves…
…and really I just want to give you a big hug and sit a while with your bettered and angry self.
best,
one step
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Gem,
When we break NC it always rebounds on US not them. We have to keep in mind and in our hearts that the only closure we have available is what we MAKE OURSELVES FOR OURSELVES. I know you know that intellectually, but sometimes our emotions weaken and we do an EMOTIONAL choice because it seems so important to have it. You and I are fruits from the same tree, Gem. I tried so hard for so many years.
But it is like trying to find the rattlesnake that bit you and get him to understand just how painful the bite was, how your foot and leg swelled to three times it normal size, turned black, and you had to be in hospital for a month, and how pain killers would not stop the pain, and how in the end, though you didn’t die, you lost four toes and will limp the rest of your life. Try to make that SNAKE understand and after that, go work on your daughter. It isn’t going to happen, Gem.
For so long I wrote letters, 10-12-14 page typed letters crying to my P son about how he had hurt me, betrayed me, or to my egg donor. They neither comprehend nor care, if anything, the more pain I suffered the more joy they get/got.
Our dear Lily never gave up on her MALIGNANT HOPE (even if ever so small) that her daughters would “get it” or “care” and I think it haunted her to her last breath. Gem, I don’t want to let that specter haunt me forever. I can’t allow it, I have to fight it. When I feel those urges (which thank God are rare now!) I have to sit myself down and have a “talk” with my “inner Oxy” and straighten that old woman out!
When you feel those urges, come here and let me BOINK you on the head a good one with the CYBER SKILLET. LOL ((((Hugs)))) and always prayers.
(Report abusive comment)
TooLate says:
midlifecrisis,
I was so in love with my spath! Every night I would lay next to him and want him to just reach out and touch me. I wanted affection of ANY kind. I wanted him to hold me in his arms, to snuggle me, and yes … to make love to me. We were together for 13 years, and in the last 8 years we were together, he intentionally withheld ALL intimacy and affection. Every single night for 8 years, I lay there beside him and was rejected. He carefully placed a pillow-moat between us. A line of pillows that he claimed he needed for arm, leg, and stomach support. I can’t describe the pain that this caused me. His words of “I love you” were only that … words.
It became so unbearable, that I found it easier to sleep on the couch in our last year together. Yeah, I wasn’t having intimacy with a man, but there was no man on the couch to reject me.
I felt trapped at first. I was married to him. I didn’t see any solution for the problem. I loved him, so I didn’t consider divorce. An affair was equally repulsive to me. I loved my HUSBAND. I didn’t want another man … I wanted HIM. After years of forced celibacy, I finally cracked.
One night I was drinking some wine. I was lonly and feeling desperate for any kind of intimacy. I had been “alone” for SO long and the pain was unbearable. I couldn’t remember what it felt like to have a man put his arms around me.
I was in a situation that put me alone in a room with another man. I had never looked at this man with desire EVER in the past years I had known him. He wasn’t my type. I had an affair with him. To be honest, it could have been ANY man sitting there … a homeless man, a bum … anything with a working penis. Sad, isn’t it? It was my idea … driven by desperate feelings and alcohol, I made the suggestion.
For months afterwards, I felt devastated by my lack of control. I am not proud of what I did. I know it was wrong. I had given up my last shred of self respect then. I have never been able to regain that. It’s another tragic loss for me.
Sadly, now I have lost any sense of connection between love and sex. It just doesn’t matter anymore. You want sex? Come and get it. I don’t care. It means nothing to me.
I have lost all interest in sex. I have lost all faith in myself and others. I trust no one.
I want to be alone for the rest of my life. Sex? Sure, why not? Love? Forget it, I’m through.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Toolate,
I hear the pain in your post above. That kind of rejection you describe is so painful. Many times I think when we are so rejected we pull within ourselves and are afraid to risk intimacy again because the rejection IS so painful. That is a natural and normal withdrawl to keep ourselves pain free, but it is lonely behind those walls as well.
It doesn’t have to last forever though. As we heal, we can learn to trust again…to trust others, and to trust OURSELVES to keep us safe from that kind of rejection and pain. Keep your faith, first in YOURSELF to keep you safe from predators. Learn to take baby steps in trust with friends and others, and then again, maybe at some time, you can also learn to trust yourself to find compassionate and loving sharing with another, for both love and sex. God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
witsend says:
Dear Mamma Gem,
Oxy has some wise words to share…
However I know where you are coming from. It seems hard to “get there”.
The emotional turmoil, especially the CONFLICTING feelings that exist when the toxic person in your life is your child. This conflict of emotions most days seems impossible to get beyond.
On any given day I feel like I take 2 steps forward but then the next day 5 steps back.
Often, when I take my steps backwards though, is when I hear some “news” about him. And generally speaking that news comes from the school or from the family that he is staying with. (and the news is either bad or troubling at best) Emotionally, where I AM right now…..NO NEWS is good news. And because of his age, I will continue to be contacted by the school regardless of where he is “living”.
I am only at the begining stages of trying to “tough love” this situation. It isn’t EASY. Most days it seems damn close to impossible. And it is ALWAYS torture to my heart.
Gem your heart is broken. A part of your heart will ALWAYS be the “mother” that you were. Regardless of WHAT your daughter has done. This process is ALL about acceptance.
Accepting that the hole in our hearts is something we need to learn to co-exist with.
Accepting the fact that love is not enough to save our kids. That even if your daughter wrote you a 12 page letter of apology, for what happened between the two of you, it wouldn’t MEAN anything. It would not FILL that hole in your heart. It wouldn’t erase any of the pain that you have endured. It wouldn’t change how she would continue to treat you. If you recieved an apology it would be part of a ploy. Or a con, to take even more from you.
Look at our dear New Lily….Her adult children didn’t come to her when she was “living” they came when she was dying. To LITTLE, to LATE.
I pray she is at peace.
The more you look into what your daughter is doing in her life, the more pain you are inflicting on yourself. I know this is hard….To know “nothing” about what goes on in your own daughters life….But you are almost better off, by not knowing. Knowing, just rubbs salt in the wound.
Spread your loving heart to her children, your grandchildren. They are deserving of your love and your heart.
xxxx
(Report abusive comment)
midlifecrisis says:
TooLate
What you did you were driven to. I myself started up net friendships with men – I didn;t physically cheat, but I was desperate for some intellectual intimacy. Or even just a hug. Have you ever thought that perhaps this was all planned by the P? That he set you up for it so to speak? I can just about guarantee he witheld deliberately hoping you would have an affair so then he could go mad about it and blame you for being the ‘whore’ he always knew you were. It’s a sick mind- of course you are not a whore. I just want you to forgive yourself for this – you were driven to it. As surely as if he had slipped rohypnol into a drink and invited someone in to take advantage of you. If someone ignores you for years – then what can you expect?
As to sex – be careful with it. I was on the fence when I left him. I could have went down the route of looking for meaningless casual flings, or I could just retreat inside myself. I decided the latter = I didn’t need to feel any worse than I already did. Sex causes bonding for women whether we like to admit it or not. I have memories of friends having one night stands and then desperately hoping the guy would call the next day (of course he never did). What I did in the end up was to form platonic friendships with men – I needed to heal my view of them and being exploited for sex just wasn’t a good idea for me at that time. Having them as friends is definitely healing me – I see that not all men are bad and selfish and parasitic. And if I have ‘needs’ … well there are tools I can buy for that! At least it is sex with someone you love lol
Look after you – you are as precious as gold. Don’t cast yourself among those who don’t deserve you and don’t see your light. You are worth so much more than that. Try journalling about the sex and how it has changed your views of what it is … you might be surprised at what comes out for you – I certainly was!
You sound already much better than when you first came here – just wanted to share that with you – the pain has died down a little and you are very clear about what is going on. Good work!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
kindheart48 says:
Too Late , reading your post was heart wrenching . I know i tried everything with the s, dressing sleasy oh yea he’d tell me how to dress to degrade me and then when he couldn’t perform i was degraded and rejected all over again. For six years i went through him either rubbing up against me or getting whatever thrill it gave him to see me dress exactly to his liking and not once did i get anything back only a little cuddling exactly for how long he decided. Your blog is making me so pissed just thinking of my own situation. The detective i was trying to help because like midlife i craved some affection and the farthest we got was cuddling and lots of massages. Thankfully all i was looking for was some affection and he the same as i think he’s loyal like me he was just so love starved and i the same. I rmember once just lying on his chest nothing too earthsattering, the poor guy went on and on ” wasn’t that the calmest peace you’ve ever felt” he couldn’t beleive that he was cuddling and had never experienced that peace in 23 yrs of marriage nor had he ever been given a backrub. But he is back with her and yes i get ticked thinking why are all the warm cuddly people with these cold detached ones but life is not fair. Just reading your post sure brings up the reality of what i sacrificed myself something im really thinking about alot these days but it’s good, keeps things in perspective. Funny before i read your post i was in kitchen thinking that asshole, i never once got to do anything i wanted or watch anything i wanted or eat anything i wanted , you get my point . I think this is just a stage im going through and i hope im passed the worst of it. Im on guard if he calls as m y pattern is to want t o be sarcastic and he loves any attention, giong to try a new tactic i’ve never used , no madness, no niceness, just nothing. love kindheart “i must be progressing as it’s never occured to me to just really truly ignore him from the heart finally/ love kindheart
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Gem,
The “not knowing” is what NC is all about, because each time we “know” more, it is only painful to us. By getting information about them, what they are doing, thinking, saying, we end up being more hurt because it is “breaking” NC.
Of course we never wanted this kind of relationship (or lack of one) with the little children we loved, but these ADULTS are NOT those babies we held and had such great hopes for—they are STRANGERS. And, not only strangers, but strangers who have not only no love for us, but rancor and anger and hate toward us.
That is why I “buried” my baby boy some years back, I buried that baby and young boy just as I buried my grandparents. Now, I can think about my little boy and miss him, but still think happy thoughts about him, ,talk about the funny cute things he did when he was little, before he “died”—-and smile about those things. The MAN however, is just another convict—he is NOT the child I loved. Maybe my “compartmentalization” of my thinking is “crazy” but it helps me to cope. It helps me to hang on to that wonderful CHILD I loved, while distancing myself from the MAN WHO IS SO EVIL.
I will never stop loving my baby, but I fooled myself for too long that my baby boy was the same person as the evil man. They are not! I wish you and Wits PEACE. Love Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
Rosie says:
My ex was very affectionate when we met and even held my hand when we walked down the street.
A year later he was so unaffectionate he wouldn’t put his arm around me in a photo taken at a freinds birthday dinner…even after his freind urged him to!
He also denied ever holding my hand in public, telling me my memory was wrong.
(He knew my memory was a bit shonky and would milk this weakness for all it was worth).
Anyway…just glad all that confusion and hurt is over!
I’m enjoying reading these posts and gaining insight into his behaviours.
I count myself lucky that I had the opportunity to talk at lenngth with his ex-gf of 5 years..who told me all the things he did to hurt her..and she said “he has no conscience” although she didn’t use the word sociopath.
I’d be interested to hear of anyone else who had the opportunity to talk to thier socio’s ex partner/spouse
(Report abusive comment)
Rosie says:
Oxdrover that is so sad
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
I had a chance to talk to the partner. The lies and compulsive cheating just came right out.
I think that this is the understanding that we need to begin the healing process and to begin to unravel the knots in our own misunderstandings of love.
You can’t fix these people, but you can change yourself. Improtant to get real understanding of what love relationship work like, smell like and feel like when they ARE healthy.
(Report abusive comment)
cordelia says:
I found this forum because I suspect my brother is a sociopath and armed with this information i now feel helpless. I cant “get out” of a relationship with a brother! I am being manipulated and have no where to turn. He has got our mother under his control and our father does whatever our mother says. We own a business together and my brother has all but cut me out from the daily operations. He has used his sociopathic powers to do this, turning employees against me and even out mother because he is also a homosexual and is using that to get his way. I am called intolerant because I am Catholic. Even though I have read the Catetchisim (sp?) to him which states that homosexual attraction cannot be helped, it is a disorder and we love the person and are to show no discrimination towards them WHICH I dont. However he twists whatever i say into an argument so that I am the bad guy! He has an attraction to a 20 year old which he KNEW was gay when he saw him in a local store and asked him to apply for a job at our restaurant. I had no idea till after that he was a homo and that my brother wanted around him for the sexual attraction. This relationship has caused more problems for me. The 20 year old is now in jail but set to get out in 5 months. I had a “ah ha” moment with my brother when I confronted him and said that the reason he has been causing trouble for me with everyone is that so I would move out of our shared apt so he could move the 20 year old in when he got out of jail ( he had already promised him his old job back). Brother’s reply “its probably not going to happen”. I guess the best confirmation of what is really going on from a sociopath.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
These realizations run deep and are deeply troubling because they invoke everything we know about ourselves and what we believe to be true.
Its a tough day for me too. I am tired and when I am tired, I find that I am most easily distressed by the feelings of fear and anxiety and inability to do something mighty to change my situation.
It is these days, when I find the best things to turning a bad day into a productive one is to first come here, to second perfomr the more mundane and mindless tasks of daily living and then to make lists of what is to be done, what resources are required and what steps.
I don’t hold myself to account fo rthe limitations because the first step is to define the problem and make it as big as possible.
Then, to go back and loook at solving each of the smallest components in order.
This is how Eisenhower go DDAY planned and executed. We can do this. We just need techniques. We need to rely on our faith and we need to go somewhere to downlaod emotionally until we can find a quiet place in our minds to think about the tasks which must be performed. Even making a plan is productive.
And like the great generals knew, any battle plan changes on first engagement with the enemy….
(Report abusive comment)
justus5 says:
silvermoon:
That must be it, I am tired. I hope to be able to regconize when I am tired and down at the same time, in the future. Yes, the list thing, I just made a step by step list of the order in which I wanted to do laundry. Someone on here had wrote that to me awhile back, don’t remember who. Ok. I got to get.
(Report abusive comment)
dolleyes555 says:
I just got out of a relationship with a guy I think is a sociopath. We were together 5 years, during which time I was completely confused and bewildered by his odd behavior. I wasn’t the only one who noticed, EVERYONE I KNEW would tell me:”There is something wrong with that guy, how can you stand him?”
He was charming enough, so people put up with him. They would make excuses for his behavior just like I did. He had a different job every 6 months, he has no friends (besides the ones he picked up through his relationship with me). He makes sexually innapropriate comments on the fly and used to grab me inappropriately in public a lot. Before we went out for the night I would tell him that he “better not” embarass me and he would literally BEG me to help him. He would want to know what he should wear and how he should act.
I guess what I want to know is, are there different levels of sociopathy? There are things my boyfriend did that weren’t very indictive of a sociopath.
First of all, he learned to control his verbal and physical outbursts, the innapropriate comments and all of that ultimately dissappeared in public. He seemed to have progressed as I made suggestions to him, which I am told a sociopath cannot do.
His sex drive was intense, and we had “kinky” sex, but he was always really concerned with my satisfaction and he was romantic in bed. He prefferred to look into my eyes, and to kiss me. He wanted to take baths together and massage my feet. He did all of the cooking in our relationship, nearly all of the cleaning. He couldn’t keep a job, but he did attempt to make me happy and to contribute. He didn’t steal anyting from me, and every single time I suspected him of cheating I would investigate and find out that my concerns were unfounded. I used to drive by his house at night to see if he was home and feel stupid when his car was in the driveway.
He has a kid, who appears to amuse him, but I don’t know about the “love thing”. He treats his son how his Father treated him (his father appears to be sociopathic on a much more intense level).
He appears to feel things when he listens to music. He will get goose bumps from certain songs he hears.
After our break-up we had a talk about our “sex lives” and he was hurt when I indicated I’d had sex. He said that it literally made him sick to think about, and he said that his stomach hurt and he couldn’t eat his lunch. He then divulged to me that the sex he had sucked, and that all he kept thinking was that the girl he was with wasn’t me. He asked detail after detail, almost pulling off to the side of the road in his anxiety. But he was respectful. He said that it was his fault I had to have sex with someone else because he was stupid, and that he didn’t want to hear anymore. But he kept asking and asking, getting more and more anxious but making sure to get as many details as possible. (PS: I didn’t give him many details)
Now that we are broken up I really miss him and we talk on the phone a lot. He has a job right now, and hopefully he will keep it.
I just don’t know whats going on. I don’t want to get rid of a good guy because I suspect him of being a sociopath. Diagnosing something like that is tricky, there are alot of people who are LIKE sociopaths but are really just insecure idiots who lie a lot because they find themselves boring. How can you tell the difference?
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Dolley,
It doesn’t sound to me like he is a sociopath at all, it sounds to me like your relationshiip was maybe not all that mature, but it doesn’t sound to me like he was cruel to you in any way.
I would decide what you want in a relationship and if you think he could provide that then talk about it with him, see if that is what he wants. If not, then just go your separate ways.
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
I’m feeling very triggered today.
Yesterday I found an excellant site that deals with BPD issues and went there specifically to see if I could find anything about MALE borderlines. I have always believed that all of my serious relationships have been with men with some kind of disorder, (and yes. I know what that says about me.)
I thought my Xhub was an N, and my Xspath an addict who displayed ASPD traits, but had always wondered if he might really be a borderline.
I found some insightfull articles about these relationships, and now I think we are all borderlines.
It talked about the care-taking male BPD who hooks up with the female waif BPD so he can rest assured she won’t leave him, and so he can be in controll. BINGO, military Xhub.
It talked about the male waif BPD who hooks up with a female siren type BPD. BINGO, Xspath.
I think my Mom was BPD…I fit the profile…the younger of my two daughters has been diagnosed with it, and now the oldest of her two daughters is really worrying me.
She is using a lot of manipulation to be noticed, and to get attention. She loves men, and will hardly say hello to me, wont answer me, in short snubs me. She has a lot of the “mean girl ” charictaristics firmly in place.
My daughter has battled anorexia, and now my GD is showing an abnormal interest in food, hungar, eating habits, and not wanting to eat. Control, control, control.
I’m 51, and I’m not interested in having intimate relationships anymore…I function pretty well in other kinds of relationships.
I don’t want to spend the rest of my lfe in therapy, drudging up those things that hurt sooo bad. I do try to be self aware, and call myself on my behavior.
I recognize myself in my GD…her needyness, her lack of power, her manipulations and it is really triggering alot of unwanted emotion.
Do you’ll think I should stay away from the BPD site?
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
By the way, my daughter functions well, in the world, and is a good mother.
My GD pushes my BPD buttons. It is all so familiar to me.
Sorry, guys. most of the time I don’t bring this up, here, but you guys are my support group!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Kimmie,
((((((Hugs))))))) I know you would like to just “get on with life” and quit the self examination and thinking about it all.
I would too!
Where I have an “issue” that is causing me trouble, then I have to have TIME to THINK about and ANALYZE what is causing the trouble. Why I am feeling “not so good” or there is trouble in my life.
Persons with BPD are like people with depression or any other thing, it can be not too bad to function, or all the way up to catatonic and can’t get out of bed (using depression for the scale of symptoms.)
I do suggest that you listen to your triggers. If there are triggers we have more stuff to work on, and ignoring painful things doesn’t solve them, it is called DENIAL and that ain’t a river in Egypt, Chickie! LOL
Anorexia is a SERIOUS medical/mental health issue, and I’ve had patients literally die from it, and others it was more or less fixable.
There are a lot of theories on BPD being the “female version” of PPD, but I really don’t think that is the case….but the ones who kill etc. that are diagnosed with BPD I think are really Ps and misdiagnosed, but that’s just my OPINION.
Do good things for yourself, and DO NOT TRY TO FIX OTHERS, and know what your issues are, and CALL yourself on them or ask a good friend to call you on them if you don’t see the issues yourself sometimes (we are all blind to our own issues sometimes I think even when we try to “see” them)
Also, remember that SELF DIAGNOSIS is dangerous, even for a medical or mental health professional. That’s why I go to a DOCTOR myself.
What’s the old saying “a lawyer who represents himself has a FOOL for a client and his lawyer” (same thing for doctors)
So I suggest you get in a group like Al-anon, or go to therapy (I know, you don’t want to be in therapy the rest of your life) ((((Hugs))))) Kimmie, I can SEE how far you have come since you came here to LF!!! TOWANDA for you! But if this is triggering you, then you might want to think about some more therapy or a support group. God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Thank-you, Oxy. I woke up feeling sooo sad this morning…so much wasted time…time I can’t get back. So much wasted emotion and energy.
I came to this site trying to recover from the last spathing, but have found so much unresolved pain from my marriage to my X military hub. I wanted that marriage to work so bad, and his emotional withdrawl hurt so bad for so long.
When I look at it now I realize he never really loved me and we got married for all the wrong reasons. I couldn’t keep up all the enormous energy it took to ADORE him, and I’m sure that hurt him a lot. He pretty much much moved on, but stayed married, and I never had a clue what happened.
At the time I blamed it all on him, but now see how we were both wounded and damaged souls who didn’t stand a chance, and now I see that I hurt him too!
At least he tried. The other one was like an incorrigable boy.
Makes my skin crawl. I used to say he was like a dog you could neither keep in the yard or out of the yard.
He came and went as he pleased.
Anyway, thanks for answering. A little encouragement goes a long way.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Kimmie,
This healing journey starts out about finding out what was wrong with them, and ends up about US—and what we need to fix in ourselves. Mostly I think is developing boundaries, at least for me. But not only boundaries for how we allow others to treat us, but boundaries for how we TREAT OURSELVES.
Sometimes realizing that we contributed to our own failures in relationships makes us sad (It would be so nice if we could blame others for all our troubles like a psychopath would! LOL) I think though, that by exploring all this carp, it is like peeling an onion, you peel off one layer and there’s another layer underneath. Eventually you get it all peeled down to the core—and that is what I am still working on it.
Spend some time DIGESTING what you have learned on the BPD site, and don’t overwhelm yourself. When most of us came here to LF we were OVERWHELMED with problems, but now that those of us who have been here for a while and learned and grown and developed a few internal resources, we can work on things without being overcome or over whelmed. So just an itty bitty bite at a time, but it will make you stronger.
Burying it won’t do a bit of good, we all know that! (((Hugs) you don’t have to face everything at once. Rest a bit, then take another go at it. Love Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
bluejay says:
kimfrederick,
I hope you feel better today. The past is done. Today is a new day, hoping that your mood lifts. I am feeling low too, so I am going to have a quiet time, possibly reading some helpful books. Take care.
(Report abusive comment)
AmAir says:
I am new to this site, and new to learning about social psychopaths, etc., and am trying to figure out whether my ex is a social psychopath, because she does show a lot of the signs of one, but…. diagnosing someone as essentially having no soul is very difficult. How do you all know your ex’s, etc., are psychopaths? A person is so dynamic, and there can be so many reasons why people do what they do… or don’t do.
Not that it makes much difference really, but in case of potential confusion with my use of pronouns- I am lesbian….
Please forgive if this gets long… it’s complicated to sum up.
MANY of the stories on here resonate a great deal with my ex’s personality, but still I am reluctant to call her a psychopath. Another factor in our relationship is that we met online, and she was in Canada while I was in the U.S.
She wrote me beautiful letters… we facebooked… and then we began talking on the phone a lot. We talked about everything under the sun. She looks like a model and is so intelligent, well spoken and has a huge vocabulary… mostly I was hesitant because of her age… she was 23 when we met…. A couple red flags were that she said she was a commitment phobic, and had a lot of short term relationships that she didn’t call “dating” she called it “dealing.” I didn’t think that was too odd, because of her age however, and because as fem lesbians with higher educations- finding a match is already like finding the last unicorn.
What did stand out was that she “dealt” with a lot of women who were clearly not her match on every/many fronts…. she toyed with them… and claimed that they were not her equal, so the only thing she got out of it was the chase- seducing them and then with no explanation discarding them. She comes from money too, attends an Ivy League University (to be a psychiatrist), and lived with her parents, so she never needed to take advantage financially… not at first at least. Also the fact that her only friends were her little sister, and a girl her age who puts zero expectations on her, and enables her lies/secrets. She can charm ANYONE- she is tall, charismatic and strikingly attractive.
I finally couldn’t take wondering if we were a match, so I bought her a plane ticket to come see me when I lived in Los Angeles. She put up a fuss because she felt bad/guilty about my paying for it (she didn’t have credit cards), and insisted on buying all the food and drinks once she arrived- which she did. She came, and it was animal magnetism right off the bat. She seemed so nervous and timid at first… which made perfect sense for the circumstances. It was really unique, because we were already in love with each other mentally before we met in person. Or so I thought at that time. She was so unbelievably sweet and an amazing listener… so insightful.
The sexual chemistry was off the charts, and she was such a sexual giver too- very sensual and dominant (but so am I)…. however, it came out that she had been raped when she was 14-15- lost her virginity to her equestrian coach…. so she was timid about/had issues with penetrative sex- but still had high sex drive. That was not spoken of much again after that except for a few random mentions of nightmares of him over the year we were together. Anyway- right off the bat after meeting me, she was eager to put her commitment phobia behind her and have me be her GF… she felt that I was the one.
So… with her help (limited help), I sublet a place in Canada to explore our relationship further. I bought her a ticket, again, to fly back to drive the long trip there together. I made it special, and took it on myself to pay for it all, because she only had a part time job while she was in school. We went so many places. Physically- she was so affectionate- held my hand everywhere we went- we never walked without her reaching to hold my hand… slept all night in each others arms… took showers together… she was so complimentary… so affectionate… so sure of our connection… it was magical feeling… I had never been so comfortable around someone.
On this trip it started to become apparent that she had issues expressing emotions. She was moody, but apologetic for it. She said that because of her cold upbringing, and a neurotic, emotionally abusive mother made her learn to “stuff” (suppress) her emotions long ago… that showing emotion in her household caused more damage than it helped…. that her mom and dad favored her sister (but oddly she would later say that her sister had an ability to connect with them in a way she never could)…. that she was diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder as a child…. that she had ADD which is the reasoning she often used for not calling when she said she would…. or her mother was taking her phone… taking her computer…. etc…. being punished for being gay, etc. Tons of blame and excuses for her lack of follow through on things.
Only 9 days into my being in her city- she was already talking about how she couldn’t believe that she met someone she could spend the rest of her life with with such concrete assuredness… at the same time she started getting secretive, and picked a fight with me over nothing- out of the blue, so she could leave for the night and not come back. I was suspicious of something not being right. She said she was going to spend time with her sister, and then I saw her sister online 2 hours later, and she told me she was 2 hours away and def not with her sis. Came to discover she secretly met with an ex, and lied to me about it… she was so unruffled when I confronted her about the lies- no emotion showed on her face- she just broke into hives… she said that the hives must be anxiety (whenever a moment where emotions would be appropriate- she’d break into hives instead and maybe get glossy, sorrowful eyes), but that she wasn’t sure, and magically manipulated and seduced me. She spent all her time around me when she wasn’t at work, and her ex was not even a little attractive- also not very intelligent or classy, so I bought it.
Then another week later… she left her email account open on my computer with an email chain to her ex… throwing me under the bus pretty badly… saying how I was triggering her “commitment phobia” and that she missed her, but couldn’t get away while I was in town- even dedicated a song to her ex that I had dedicated to her… really hurtful stuff. Everything in her letters was the complete opposite of what she told me about her feelings. Her ex was desperately grasping at any crumb she threw… of course. When I confronted her about seeing the emails- she said that she was feeling smothered and scared… and that things were going too fast- when I told her that she was the one WANTING it to go at this pace- she said she was intimidated by her intense feelings for me, and her ex was simple and predictable- what she was used to…. used to not caring, and having control…. and with me- it was real love, it was beyond her control and freaked her out. Again- I bought it. She even made me feel like I had invaded her privacy by reading her emails.
When we were eating around town a couple times- she ducked to hide when she saw certain women walking, and freaked about not wanting “drama”. I thought that was very odd, and got upset about it… and I noticed that these women were often very unappealing, sloppy… of a type that wasn’t matched…. She had a seamless explanation- “Well at least you know I am not shallow, and you should feel confident that you are extraordinarily gorgeous.” I was feeling insecure that I had driven all this way, found work, and bent time and space just to be there with her (I already had considered moving to Canada before meeting her, so I thought it was fate)… and that she was cavalier about how she was handling our relationship when she wanted me there “so badly.” I even found out she still was cyber winking at women on the dating site we met on- she said she didn’t see the big deal- she was just bored at work.
This is getting long! Weeks after she realized I was looking for another sublet to extend my stay another month- she popped it on me that she was unable to get out of the family trip to Europe… leaving me in a position where I had to make last minute plans to meet my mom in NY at family that was about a 10 hour drive… arranging plane tickets for my mom, etc., in under a week- wasting money. She said she wanted to drive with me to meet my family. She charmed the HELL out of my difficult to impress family (my mom has worked with the mentally ill my whole life)- they loved her, and how we were together. She didn’t have money for her return strip to Canada- and refused to allow me to pay for a plane, and took a 14 hour bus trip. On the bus platform, with tears in her eyes she told me that after meeting my family she felt so privileged to be with me- and that she would miss me terribly while she was in Europe for 3 weeks (over my birthday too). [Passionate kiss- end scene.]
I drove 12 hours to get home with my mom directly after that. When we finally arrived to my mom’s… I opened my computer, and AGAIN, my GF had left her email AND her facebook logged into. I discovered that she had set up to meet her ex once she got off the bus I paid for. I managed to stay logged into her account for a week without telling her anything… but she could tell I was upset…. she always could read me (they say psychopaths can’t read sadness or anger but she could)… I set her into a trap- lied to do it…. created a fake email pretending to be an anonymous friend of ex’s contacting me to tell me that I was being played and cheated on and that I needed to get a clue. I used phrases from their letters to each other to make it more real- included all of her ex’s info/telephone #/email… to scare her.
Again… she managed to manipulate me with fears of my being American, and money, and that loving me so much made her fear falling apart if we couldn’t be together…. and all the obstacles mixed with her fear that she messes everything up. Then she went to Europe, and never called me once- not even on my birthday when she swore she would. She barely emailed, but when she did- it was an excuse for why she wasn’t calling- she did facebook me on my bday.
I went back up to Canada when she returned- because she told me that she had decided to take a year off from school to figure out if she really wanted to be a doctor- that she wasn’t sure… that her parent’s told her since she was a child that she would be a doctor- one way or another…. that they were so controlling she said. That being in Europe made her realize that she didn’t want to keep dating the predictable, “safe” woman. She wanted to give it a real shot with me, and go back to California with me so we could figure out how to work it out- she had saved a couple thousand dollars at her job.
She also gave me all her passwords to her accounts…. for the next 7 months we lived together. Because of this- I found out that she didn’t voluntarily take a year off from school, but that she was actually on her 2nd academic probation for poor performance. I knew she had a big issue about the invasion of privacy thing, but I decided to bring it up anyway… because it was yet another significant lie. She was REALLY pissed off that I read her email trying to get readmitted (without telling me) as soon as possible, because she suffered with ADD and was seeing a therapist for it, and on and off of meds. And then I started to wonder if she was just using me for a place to be that was warm during the winter… she said she had seasonal affective disorder. She managed, again, to quell my concerns.
We rarely fought except for when her money ran out, and she was struggling to make money as a Canadian in the states. She did more chores, she did under the table work she didn’t like at all- for very little money… she modeled/had her hair butchered. We couldn’t get married (not legal in the US)…. her parents very rarely contacted her… didn’t on Christmas even…. I even made her send gifts and a card from us both. When we fought about stupid stuff- she was always so endearing about apologies… they were so damn thorough! She read books all the time- a lot of books on psychology- even People of the Lie…. she could break down the human psyche like a champion. Problem was- she apologized amazingly well- but she frequently reverted back to the same behaviors she apologized so well for.
She was so loving to all animals- got upset at TV shows that revealed animals being hurt. She got scared about paranormal shows, and would sometimes be unable to sleep because she had convinced herself something was there (fear). We had so much fun together- drinking a couple times brought out a different personality. One time she got really angry and went around telling women (this is LA mind you) how fake they were… how they were trying to hard…. insulting…. she would tell me how much she hated the city and the people. She never made friends or connections… she started out saying how she knew she would love my friends, and she was sweet to them, but was irritable about “dealing” with them. Regardless- everyone LOVED her… and thought we were the most beautiful, striking, intense, and perfect couple…. I have a lot of very loyal friends, but she’d always seem to have a good time, and when we went home- she would say how different she was- none of them were like her, or were the kind of people she could befriend. We did fight about this too come to think of it.
One night she got drunk and changed personality. She was severely angry at me for going off with a friend for 20 minutes… lashed out, pushed me, and I almost fell onto the street… and then she tore off down the sidewalk, and started intimate conversations with bums and a blind man trying to keep me from taking her home. Finally I grabbed her and said- I AM NOT LEAVING YOU ON THE STREET ALONE… she jerked her hand away and pushed me into a street light post, and when she saw that I hit my head- she snapped back into her normal personality (someone who holds my hand everywhere we walk, doesn’t let me carry anything and protects me when crossing the street), and she looked so sorry and remorseful.
On the drive home- I went to a romantic spot overlooking the city lights- where I took her the first night she met me… to make-up… she was still pretty inebriated… and a woman who NEVER cries (her eyes only got glossy before this)… just started howling and sobbing in a pain that seemed like her soul was being torn apart…. for like 2 minutes…. and as quickly as it began- she stopped and went back to repose. When I asked her why she was crying- she said… I don’t know… and nothing more.
When we got home… she told me that an acquaintance of mine (a niece of a celebrity who also fancies herself to be a psychic) who was at the bar we were at… told her, after I left, that she would just end up hurting me extremely badly. So my GF felt that she needed to break up with me, because that was her worst fear… because she always ends up hurting people, and she so desperately didn’t want to hurt me. I started to cry- I even had an anxiety attack… because I was utterly head over heels in love by this point- ready to marry her… and this bar happened to be the location of my last break up 3.5 years before too.
She ended up comforting me- helped me take a shower to calm down, and then changed her mind as she became sober again…. saying she was naive and vulnerable to listen to that woman.
Turns out that we thought she was allowed to stay in the country for a year, and then she found out it was only 6 months… and she had already overstayed…. so she called her parents and had them book her a flight home. She gave me the sweetest letter on valentines day the outlined the 100 things she adored/loved about me… and the details she wrote about still will bring tears to my eyes- no one has ever said such beautiful things to me.
So we made a plan that she would go home… get enrolled into school… and work on her parents to agree to pay for school- she would get a job, and we would get an apartment up there together. She would fly back and help me pack and move, etc. Once we were settled up there- we would look into getting married in Canada. Her parting words to me at the airport were, “I know now, more than ever that you are the love of my life, and I want to spend the rest of my life with you… no matter what happens, I swear I will see you soon.” She left a lot of clothes, make-up, gifts I had given her, books, etc.
Her first day home she called me and told me that her father had just bought a 1.5 million dollar rental property, and she thought that meant we might be able to live there. I put in my month notice at my apartment I had lived in for almost 9 years… and started packing.
I got paranoid about her cheating on me with her ex, because she reverted back to not calling or writing when she said she would (I couldn’t call her because she still didn’t have a cell phone there yet)… and after months of not checking- I went to sign into her accounts, and the passwords were changed. I freaked and threatened to break up with her. She told me she was angry that after all this time that I didn’t truly forgive her… and was again attempting to violate her privacy to snoop on her.
The next day she wrote me an email that essentially said that she had thought long and hard, and decided that we should indeed break up, because if I didn’t believe in her love- that there must be something to that. That I was a beautiful and intelligent woman, and she wanted me to be happy. I texted her (she finally had gotten a phone but international calls were too expensive): “You propose marriage and then 2 weeks later break up with me in an email? Please call.” She texted back: “I want to talk to you too, but my mom blocked long distance calls on the home fon.”
20 minutes later she calls me from a pay phone with a phone card. I give my plea for work on things, and she responds with no emotion, “I’m exhausted. I have no money. I don’t have a job. I live with my parents. My dad said he thought about committing suicide while I was in Los Angeles being a gypsy lesbian. My parents say they won’t send me back to school if I continue with you. I don’t see how we can be together.” I responded with, “That’s it? You don’t see how we can be together?? I am not locked into moving out… I’m 2 weeks away from moving. Everything is set.” She responds, “You should leave LA anyway- that city sucks. And as things are I won’t be leaving Canada for the foreseeable future. I’m sorry. This is hard for me too. I am completely and utterly in love with you, but there is no way we can be together.”
She proceeded to not respond to my texts, my messages no matter how heart broken… my emails POURING my heart out… I sent her care packages with sweet gifts/books/movies/mixed cds, and she would only text to say “Got the package- I enjoyed the letter.” Then I saw that she was reconnected with her ex (thanks facebook) who she claimed to have no feelings for- her facebook was utterly inactive (but she was watching my every move, and would leave rare signs of being there). My friends even contacted her, and she ignored them.
It wasn’t until I wrote an email telling her she was evil, and that she could f*** off… that she responded an hour later with “I’ll call you tomorrow.” When she called her voice was hollow when it was once so sweet…. and she barely spoke… she just listened to me cry. And I found out that some of her initial reasons for not talking to me weren’t true, because she told a different story and denied she said the other stuff. She said that I deserved better than her. That she had decided that she was fine with spending the rest of her life alone. After meeting me now knew she’d never meet someone better, and since she couldn’t make it work with me- she would be alone her whole life.
She said she had to go after only talking with me for about 20 minutes… never answering my questions about her dating other people… and then disappeared again. Except to text me to stop sending her packages- that it was really sweet, but I was going bankrupt. I found out through mutual acquaintances I met while I was up there- that she was out with the ex GF at clubs.
I was so depressed as I prepared to move out of my apartment… I couldn’t afford to get another one in LA, because rent had gone up so much after the many years I had lived there…. and my savings had dwindled so much from supporting both of us…. I lost 25 pounds- couldn’t even keep water down half the time… couldn’t sleep from anxiety attacks…. was so confused…. so I had no choice but to move back across country to live with my mom, and recoup.
I flew up 2 separate times to see her since I moved back (she left to go back to Canada in May)… she lies about everything now… the person I knew is not there….. I told her I knew she was dating her ex and she snapped “No I’m NOT!” I said- you’re staying at her place more than half the week…. she gave no response beyond a shrug. I asked, “If you aren’t at all attracted to her, and you don’t even like her that much…. think she’s simple… what do you get out of it beyond money?” She responded, “If I told you that- you’d think I was a complete asshole.” When I asked, “You told me that I was the love of your life and you wanted to marry me… where did that go?” She responded with, “I was miserable when I lived with you in LA. You were happy, because I had to pretend to be something I’m not. I’m tired of feeling guilty for being different from you. Just because i am different from you, doesn’t mean I am bad.” I asked, “When you said you were in love with me, and that I made you so happy was that a lie?” She said, “NO… I am completely and utterly in love with you… I fit in your family better than my own. I couldn’t be more attracted to another human either… and that’s exactly why we can NEVER be together. EVER.”
When I started to cry… she put her arms around me and comforted me with the heart broken look in her eyes… eyes glossing again… hives…. and said “I’m so sorry I am such an asshole. I just don’t know what to do, so I avoid you. I miss you like crazy and having no contact with you is EXTREMELY hard, bur I know that I cannot be with you. So I don’t want to make things even harder than they already are. I honestly just wish that I had you as a friend, in the very least…this is why I hate relationships…they f*** everything up. I f*** everything up in them. I have never been a relationship person…they smother me. They slowly kill me…and it is the slowest death possible. And I am tired of demonizing something that is just natural to me. I am sick of hating myself. I am what I am and I need what I need. I’m tired of feeling guilty about it.
I don’t want to be a source of hurt and pain for you….but I feel that maybe that is all I can be, when I am my true self. That is why I have been avoiding contact with you. I want you to be happy…and I know that I will ultimately just make you miserable. I can only make people for short periods of time…that is until the monster rears its ugly head.
I have always left a trail of destruction in my wake. I am always hoping that it will be different and that I will change. I wish I knew why I was so restless…so basically dissatisfied and unhappy. I wish I knew why I am so erratic, fitful…I never know what to expect from myself and it scares me shitless. Because of this, I cause pain…lots of it.
I miss you and I will always love you…but in this case I know that it isn’t enough.”
She says she wants so badly to be my friend, but she never follows through… unless I am in Canada- then she sees me, but still lies about stupid things, avoids answering questions, is duplicitous… never lets me pay though. I’ve stopped talking to her/reaching out in any way now for 16 days…. I suggested she had commitment phobia- the disorder… she agreed, and said “I don’t see the point in getting therapy for it, because I’m not unhappy… and you’d have to be committed to going to therapy and how exactly is that supposed to work?” I suggested that she might had Rape Trauma Syndrome… she never responded to that beyond “poking” me on facebook. But yesterday when I posted an article on the nonviolent psychopath- mask of sanity- she deleted me as a friend about 5 hours later.
I can’t get her out of my system… I fell completely in love with her…. and I don’t know WHAT to think. Sorry I wrote a book here…. I just had to get this off my chest once and for all.
(Report abusive comment)
bulletproof says:
AmAir
Wow that is so much to get off a chest! it’s a great start….I can really see the slow gradual descent into distress, anxiety and despair…the hallmarks of ‘experiencing’ a sociopath…so it’s by Looking at YOU and feeling your journey I suspect major gaslighting/ crazy making and what is ultimately psychological/emotional torture that has caused you to lose your center and the confusion now is at crisis point.
Grappling with the details of the story is a nessecary part, but I feel like telling you not to bother with who is right and who is wrong…and just accept something is seriously amiss and no amount of analysis seems to be giving you answers…this is typical of a sociopath hit…it leaves you babbling in the gutter of your own disbelief…a truly horrible place to find yourself…nothing seems to add up or make sense so of course you are distraught trying to figure it out in your head.
The best way to stop the decline of your sanity and take back your own power and actually get a nessecary HANDLE on the situation is to go NO CONTACT….you need space and time to process your feelings, grieve the losses already mountain high and take stock of the situation for YOURSELF…she is okay…they always are, we are the ones who lose our sleep worrying about them and they are always grand…
sociopaths think therapy is for losers, they never NEED it because they do not see there is anything wrong with them…in fact they have a very handy skill of shrugging off “problems” and distracting themselves with the next intrigue…whatever that is most sociopaths are very proud of being able to do this, and it’s their trump card in messy situations….the more upset you become the more defective you are in their eyes and they move off…
Thank your lucky stars she is moving off…she would crush you like a bug and you sound like a person that does not deserve it.
I understand you shared the most beautiful moments of your life with this person and she really allowed you be all that you are AT ONE STAGE but now she twists and turns it back into you like a knife…you have Got to take the knife off her, forbid her the power to do that anymore….enough is enough.
You need to look after YOURSELF at this point. Cups of tea, keeping safe, avoiding drama and more confusion because there is only so much you can take before you really go under with it.
It’s brilliant you are talking here…keep talking…get some comfort and interaction here with people who understand the level of anxiety it produces..keep it coming OUT as it is toxic and sickening so talking, getting angry, bashing pillows, crying, wailing, sobbing..all normal just share it here so you are not alone…bless x
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Hi Amair. I can’t say for sure that your x is a sociopath, but I would say for certain she’s some kind of “path”, meaning pathology. Dont worry too much about whats wrong with her, just know that something is, and try to evict her from the space in your head she’s renting. I know it’s almost impossible, but at least make that your goal.
I’m sorry you’re going through this awful pain, but I’m glad you’re here and hope you keep coming back.
(Report abusive comment)
Hopeforjoy says:
AmAir,
You articulated yourself so well in your story. I can see that you are still sad at the loss of your relationship and you need to allow yourself to grieve. Your ex sounds like she is unhealthy, in the least, probably one of the cluster “B” personalities, perhaps bi-polar.
The most important thing to realize is that your ex doesn’t have the capability to love you in the way you deserve to be loved. You may have had some passionate moments, these people can be very intense and sexual, but her emotional immaturity can’t progress to a deeper level.
I have been trying to figure out how I could have been conned for 20 years. It’s a journey. You were taken in by who she claimed to be, not who she really is. For me, the hardest thing to accept was that he has no remorse for the pain he has caused. Your ex was self absorbed and she will never be able to see beyond her own wants and needs. She may know the right things to say be she doesn’t back it up by her actions. She is not someone you could ever trust.
Let her go and know that you did everything you could to be a loving partner, you can’t change her and she doesn’t want to change. It’s a bitter pill to swallow.
Don’t check her facebook or any other networking sites she may be on, it’s best to move on and go no contact. It’s hard but you will feel so much better without all the drama.
Best wishes~
(Report abusive comment)
Ox Drover says:
Dear AmAir,
The specifics of your story which you articulated very well by the way, really don’t matter—she is TOXIC, she is UNTRUSTWORTHY, she is DISHONEST, and she does not treat you as if she loved you. Love is a VERB, it is how someone treats you, not what they feel about you. Love is DEMONSTRATED by ACTIONS not words.
I know it is hard to cope with the pain from what you see as a BETRAYAL, and to give up the dreams you have spun with and about this woman.
I’m glad you landed here at Lovefraud. Read articles in the archives and learn, and learn some more. It will take time, but you will heal. God bless.
(Report abusive comment)