Why you can be addicted to a sociopath
PDF Understanding helps us heal from our painful experiences. Understanding also helps us avoid repeating those experiences. What is understanding? Understanding is knowledge gained by our higher-verbal brain that helps it to manage our lower non-verbal brain. Understanding is, therefore, a path to our own impulse control. In the next few weeks, I am going to present a series on the science of motivation. I hope that a new understanding of motivation will help you in your quest for healing.
Where does motivation come from?
The first thing to understand about motivation is that it does not originate in our higher verbal brain (the cerebral cortex). It originates in our non-verbal, lower brain or limbic system. This part of the brain performs the functions of what Freud called the unconscious mind.
The unconscious mind is very much like wind. It is unseen yet very powerful. We know it exists because we see its effects and we can feel it. Yet, we do not know exactly where its force is coming from. Just as an experienced sailor uses his understanding of the wind to travel, one who understands motivation can use its energy to go far.
Motivation starts with the anticipation of pleasure
Motivation research began with the discovery of the fact that rats will press a bar to obtain various rewards. This discovery allowed scientists to study motivation in mathematical terms. For the first time, we had a measure of desire and therefore motivation. If a rat pressed a bar many times, he showed a strong desire for a particular reward. With these measures we discovered that motivation starts with the anticipation of pleasure. Something about pleasure is rewarding in that pleasure causes behaviors to be repeated.
We soon discovered that all the things that act as rewards and that increase motivated behavior are sources of pleasure. These things are food/water, sex, entertainment, possessions, affection, social dominance and substances of abuse. When a behavior causes us to get these things, we repeat that behavior. Thus, by some brain process, an association is made between an action and its outcome—getting a source of pleasure. All rewards influence motivation by affecting the same brain process.
Pleasure is necessary for learning an association between action and obtaining reward. This association, once made, causes behaviors to be repeated. Repeated behaviors are motivated behaviors. Pleasure, therefore, is the beginning of motivation. The things that give us pleasure are necessary for survival and we physically need them. We want and crave these things and we like them because they are sources of pleasure.
Needing, wanting and liking
There is an interesting interplay between needing, wanting and liking. For example, when a person is starving, food is much needed, and thus very pleasurable. Food becomes less needed, and thus less pleasant, for someone who has already eaten. The motivation for a particular type of reward is not constant but waxes and wanes, as does the pleasure from that reward. One piece of chocolate, for instance, can be quite tasty and rewarding. But even a chocolate connoisseur will probably only experience disgust if he or she is forced to eat two pounds of chocolate at once!
Recently, scientists trying to understand addiction have discovered something truly remarkable. That is, although pleasure is required to establish a behavior pattern, pleasure is not required to maintain that behavior pattern. Wanting related behaviors can occur in the absence of pleasure and are called compulsions. The bottom line is that wanting to do something and liking to do that something are not the same.
Cues from the environment become associated with pleasure in the early stages of establishing a motivated behavior. Later, these cues trigger wanting to do the behavior even in the absence of pleasure obtained by that behavior. Addiction is the best model for understanding this aspect of motivated behavior. Long after the addict has stopped feeling pleasure from the addictive substance, things that remind him of using trigger drug cravings and the compulsion to use. The brain pathways that are active in craving, wanting and pursuing addictive drugs are the same ones involved in all motivated behavior. This is why addiction affects all motivated behavior.
Motivation and healing from a relationship with a sociopath
Where am I going with all this psychology? I am trying to convince you that your compulsion to be with a sociopath can continue even after the relationship has stopped giving you pleasure. The sociopath knows instinctively that all he/she has to do is hook you in the initial pleasure phase, and you will continue to feel a compulsion to be with him/her. Sociopaths typically change in their relationships once they sense the other person is hooked or attached.
Just as cues trigger craving in addicts, reminders of the sociopath can trigger a longing for that initial relationship. Furthermore, just as complete abstinence is the only hope for recovery from addiction, staying away from the sociopath is the beginning of recovery.
Even though the maintenance of addiction and attachment to an undesirable person are the same, I do not believe that attachment to a sociopath is a sign there is something wrong with you. The sociopath and the substances of abuse hijack a brain pathway meant to serve survival. Once hijacked, the survival system becomes a path to destruction.
If a sociopath has hijacked your attachment pathway, start to break the compulsion today. Use your conscious mind and stay away from the person, don’t answer emails or phone calls. Remove from your life as much as possible reminders of the relationship. Distract yourself with other pleasures. Lastly, do not isolate yourself from other people. Since the sociopath has hijacked your attachment pathway, if you are “starved” for affection, your craving for him/her will only increase if you are lonely.
Next week we will discuss the brain pathways and hormones involved in the love bond.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
amr says:
Dear Henry,
Great post (from me who rarely posts but reads almost daily and follows all your stories)!
I especially liked : “…but I became responsible for him because of his manipulation.” Very well expressed, and I identify strongly!
I lost about 13lbs (in around only 3 months of the six months in total of seeing this scumbag) – and went from slim to almost gaunt – under the stress of it all, but did not realize at the time what was happening to me.
Re-diagnosing in the past few days (how many rediagnoses have there been?), I have also arrived at psychopathy + BPD.
Good luck with your fishing for “someone real”. I haven’t dared let myself think about this seriously yet and it’s been two years.
(Report abusive comment)
Wini says:
Dear Free: This blog is a process to get back to a peacefulness in our hearts and souls and to allow us to be the best that we can be.
Every one is on their own level of what pain was thrown into their lives. It allows all of us, no matter what works, in our own unique form to release the pain and move forward.
Peace to your heart and soul. Since you wrote this to Donna on an open forum, I thought I’d interject my opinion.
(Report abusive comment)
henry says:
AMR your statement ( but did not realize at the time what was happening to me) I relate so much. I didn’t want him here but I did. I think keeping us stressed and confused is part of the game. I diagnosed Mike as a cluster B, I don’t know if you have read (Learning from Madness) by richard skerrit but I recommend it. You will have to order it online, but it helps to understand what motivates people with these personality disorder’s, and it helped me diagnose him. I am not a physcologist but it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to recognize specific trait’s and habit’s in people. I was alway’s confused as to why am I putting up with this? I knew deep down I was being manipulated. But I felt guilty because in a sence I was lieing too, I didn’t love him, but I was trying too, and I was trying not to. This realization has kinda set me free in a way. Kinda like yeah I was confused and manipulated, but underneath all that I was trying desperatly to hang on too me.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Aloha,
Don’t quit writing your articles, I love your unique way of seeing things….it’s different from mine, and that brings a freshness and another facet to the gems you come up with.
This is kind of a difficult week for me, and I am sorry that some others in their pain and distress took what we offered in love as an attack. That happens sometimes, and especially in cyberspace. I think my analogy of the little dog, hit by a car and injured, lying on the street and when you went to pick it up to take it to the vet, it would likely reach out and in its pain, bite you. Especially if it wasn’t your dog, but sometimes even our own pet dogs would bite us. I don’t hold it against any dog that is injured and hurting and scared if when I reach out to help them they react with aggression. That’s just kind of a “normal” reaction. I’ve done it myself. Once I fell down some stairs and really thumped my shin, had an orange-sized hematoma rise up. The pain was awful, I coudn’t breathe it was so bad, and my husband reached out to take my hand and help me up and I screamed “Don’t touch me!”
All my years of working with patients who are in great pain has given me an awareness of how pain effects us all. How stress and emotional pain effect us. And sometimes it isn’t pretty. I had a patient once who was a wonderful man, so sweet, but we were having to wake him up every fifteen minutes round the clock to care for his physical needs and as a result he became sleep deprived. He was not confused, but just sleep deprived, and he became so aggressive he would take swings at us and when he ran out of curse words he knew, he started making them up! LOL None of the nurses got mad at him for this behavior or even scolded him for this, because we KNEW it was a normal and natural reaction to the pain and sleep deprivation. Two good nights sleep and he was back to being his wonderful sweet self.
I know that we all get cranky from time to time with stress, and even from sleep deprivation—I know I couldn’t sleep right, not restfull sleep, when I was in the worst of my cricses and that also tends to make us more cranky. Our worlds become so egocentric and small when we are under stress. The crazymaking that goes on in the P-experience and afterwards when we are so wounded is a difficult time for us to try to see the bigger scope of things.
After I moved away from my P-bio-father, I was only 19, and I was totally crushed and confused. I did not even have an idea what “train” had hit me. What had been DONE to me, and WHY! I just couldn’t comprehend it. I tried to talk to my mother, to my friends, and NO ONE could understand. I finally kept my experience inside me because I did realize that no one but me “got it.” It took me a loooong time to come to some peace over it, but I still didn’t understand what “train” had hit me. There was still buried anger and rage and confusion. It is only NOW 40 years later that I have processed what actually happened. Only now I can see the big picture of a life time of dysfunctional relationships with Ps. With the programming I got from my mother + the ps in the family + my reactions to them=enlightenment of it all.
No wonder I was vulnerable to the Ps. Yet, I can accept my own part in my lack of boundaries. I don’t beat myself up any longer about not having appropriate boundaries, but I do realize I didn’t have appropriate boundaries. Understanding my own lack of boundaries in CERTAIN SITUATIONS gave me the key to opening the Pandora’s box of all these old, buried, horrible memories and cleansing my soul from their ugliness.
Learning new ways of coping with pain, learning new ways to prevent pain, going out into the world cautious but not paranoid, loving myself, realizing that I DON’T deserve to be disrespected. Truly realizing what an amazing person I AM. Finally feeling that I DESERVE to be loved, just for me, not for what I DO for people. It’s a journey, and at times a painful one, and I try not to think about the “time I’ve wasted” being unhappy and not knowing why. Without ALL the experiences, both good and bad, I would not be WHO I am TODAY. And who I am TODAY is a pretty amazing person. Not perfect. Never will be, but still amazing and powerful and strong. Loving and caring. Kind and compassionate. But NOBODY’S FOOL. I want to go on growing, seeking knowledge and enlightenment. ((((Aloha))))
(Report abusive comment)
apt/mgr says:
Dear Aloha,
I would add my voice too. Sometime ago I offended a poster here. I took from her words that she was wanting encouragement concerning a relationship with God. I’m not a religionist, but she took what I was saying as trying to cram my religion down her throat. That wasn’t my intent. I backed away to rethink my thinking. It was just a speed bump. She took what I said out of context and I figured I’d just make it worse by trying to explain and defend myself.
The one man who could or could not be a sociopath, said something to me one time that really made sense coming from him. I had berated him for something he said to me, and his response was, “the impact was not my intent”. That was probably the only thing he said that made sense. Whether he meant it or not, it could apply here, too.
Just from reading what you write and the pain you endured, you are a caring person and you would just want to put your hand out to ease the fall of someone else. Were you a vindictive person, you wouldn’t be here. You wouldn’t expose your own life for all to see. What we say isn’t always received. Sometimes the message we have to say, affects some and falls on deaf ears of others. I went through many years of my life thinking I had to befriend everyone and please everyone. I set myself up for a major let down.
A natural fixer wants everyone to be happy and to try it “this” way. For me, I glean something from all people. I admit, I sometimes turn a deaf ear, but not often. I receive it, digest it, and use what I can and the rest passes.
From my years as a wife, I despaired of ever speaking again. Nothing I said made a difference. I’ve learned that not everyone hears. They listen, but don’t hear. It’s not the fault of the speaker. It’s what the listener is wanting to hear. They reject some and accept others. It’s taken me time, but I’m learning to not take it personally. And if we can impact 9 people and one walks away, our work isn’t in vain. Neither is yours. There are still lots of people who can benefit from your experience. As long as there are people, there’s going to be hurting people who just don’t get it. Someone has to get the word out.
(Report abusive comment)
Benzthere says:
I’d like to comment to Oxy, AlohaT, Lilygirl, Free and All, and I apologize for my slow response. I wrote it but wanted to think on it overnight before I posted.
Lovefraud is a public site, with many members in various emotional stages. It is a community in support of those affected by sociopathic behavior. Lovefraud has been here for quite some time and surprisingly with little disturbance on these community blogs. That is laudable. We are mostly self moderated here, free to post as we choose, but within reason. But this is not individualized professional therapy nor is this site similar in format to Kathy’s where Kathy directly guided and responded to individual questions and needs.
When you post on a public site, you invite public comment. That’s just how it works. But no one should EVER have to fear an attack. Period. Oxy and AlohaT have been posting here for a long time and their heartfelt concern for others has always been obvious to all and their intent is beyond reproach. Frankly, I was appalled and sorrowful when I read Lilygirl’s post. The most important and obvious difference, to me and I’d guess to most other regular posters as I’ve read, between Lilygirl’s abuser and AlohaT and Oxy, though it may be difficult to grasp because of imperfect presentations and concepts of growth, is intent.
Lilygirl has been hurt and abused, but she is not the only one who has been and that does not give her or anyone lease to strike out in anger and retaliation. If advice given here wasn’t beneficial and instead Lilygirl felt controlled, Oxy and AlohaT still did not deserve Lilygirl’s misplaced attempt at reprimanding their good intentions in the manner she chose.
If Lilygirl felt accosted she had several choices, she could have stated so, and explained why clearly, but without the malice. She writes well and has no trouble expressing her feelings in other instances. I believe the group would have responded very appropriately. I didn’t see the control either, but we are not mind readers nor are we professionals.
And Free, I didn’t see the post questioning you, but I don’t see these responses this morning as bullying either. They are in response to a disruption Lilygirl created. It’s not about grace, I think they’ve given that, time and again. And they didn’t viciously attack back, more grace. I think it is about them defending their boundaries against being attacked, everyone’s necessary right, and reestablishing their normal flow on this site. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
No contact, which seemed to initiate all this, is a common theme expressed here often by the site founders themselves and it too was given without malice or the intent to control anyone. It’s just good advice. Discussing the how’s and why’s is for another time, but it is a most important behavior to investigate. But instead Lilygirl retaliated in anger, and that hurt Oxy and AlohaT, which was obviously her intent.
Not everyone is going to agree here and not everyone is at the same place or needing the same support, but advice given doesn’t necessarily signify control or judgment, it’s opinion, sometimes strong opinion, sometimes lengthy opinion. Take in what helps and ignore what doesn’t. If you discuss, do so with respect. If you can’t do that, then perhaps a public site isn’t a good idea for you. That’s what we are all learning here, good from bad intent and healthier ways to relate. We have a right to our opinions and the right to disagree with anyone on here, but we don’t have the right to harm others. This is not the place for additional drama, conflict, or games. This is a place for open, honest, and considerate discussion for the benefit of all, not one, all. I will also relay that Lilygirl’s behavior reminds me of my abuser’s behavior and having to walk on egg shells if I wanted to avoid a rage or an attack, in his effort for attention or for control. No one here should have to walk on egg shells.
We have been provided a wonderful service by some wise, caring, and dedicated women who expend a great deal of effort to make this site successful for all of us. When we post, we owe it to the generosity of the originators to keep it respectful. If we don’t, past history here assures me that these originators will. They provide this wonderful public service, and I think our attitude and manners should reflect our appreciation.
I look at this unfortunate conflict as opportunity. Lilygirl and Free, your posts are enlightening and worthy. Free, I don’t like to see anyone leave, then we all may miss growth opportunities in both giving and receiving. I’d like to see everyone take a breath, take another look inside, and for now put any anger and hurt aside, and practice some acceptance. Acceptance is like grace, undeserved merit. Acceptance is sometimes difficult, but if you don’t give it you can’t demand or expect it in return. Oxy and AlohaT have both apologized for causing unintentional harm and they are moving on. I think they’ve done their part. No one wishes Lilygirl harm here, and I am confident in making that statement for all. Life is full of choices, I hope we can all learn to make good ones.
I found my answer to Matt. 5:39, a passage that had always troubled me. It is the passage that talks about turning the other cheek. It’s not a message that we should allow abuse as I had once interpreted, as there are many other passages also reiterating that. The greater message I now understand is that when we turn the other cheek, that first response is to show no desire for retaliation, but instead that we choose to give another chance.
Godspeed, Benz
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Benz and Apt/Mgr,
Thank you both for your very insightful and thoughtful posts. Any time you have conflict there is always opportunity for growth. I have no doubt that Lilygirl is in great and deep pain from her P-eperience and she mentioned other conflicts from her childhood, those all seem to come together at the time of your worst pain and increase it even more. I truly was not offended by her outburst, first off because I knew where she was coming from. I was sorry that she was in such pain that she perceived me and/or Aloha as attacking her and that in that perception, she struck back. I do hope that she and Free will take some deep breaths and come back here, because there IS so much healing and understanding here. But I also realize that sometimes it takes a few false steps to get on the right path to healing. I know I have made MORE than a FEW false steps in getting to where I am finally feeling that I am at least on the right road.
You are so right Benz about the Matt. 5:39 passage. Isn’t it amazing how with the FOG GONE we can see the spiritual messages in the Bible so much more clearly?
(Report abusive comment)
Donna Andersen says:
I am very grateful to everyone who takes the time to post comments on this blog, and offer insights to other readers. OxDrover and AlohaTraveler make wonderful contributions, as do all of you–I don’t want to start naming names, because I’m sure to overlook some and I don’t want anyone to feel slighted.
Just know that I am in awe of the love and caring that you all show to each other, people from all over the world whom we know only through screen names. I am touched by the honesty and willingness to share. I know from the e-mail I receive–beyond what is posted in the public blog–that we are making a difference in many shattered lives.
Thank you all.
(Report abusive comment)
alohatraveler says:
I truly appreciate all that have come out of the woodwork to issue little gestures of support. This means a great deal to me.
I feel a bit misunderstood at the moment. It is painful when someone even implies that I am “intolerable.” I was feeling like I was some kind villain. I was surprised to be singled out as someone that has driven another reader away.
I think there is a lesson here for me about those rusty old boundaries that I have. It is hard to refrain from defending myself when I am being compared to an abuser over and over. I don’t understand this. I know I mentioned the same thing to another reader so that might sound hypocritical. But, I appreciate that Benz was willing to say that she picked up the tone and intent of the attack on me and acknowledged it. I was wondering if I was the only person that felt that way? Thanks Benz. I needed that.
I also want to clarify that my question to FREE was about that very thing. I surprised that she didn’t come to my defense, just a little. I thought she “knew” me better than that and would not misunderstand my intentions. I see that several other readers “know” me well enough to realize that an attack on another reader would be out of character for me.
I would never want to hurt anyone at LoveFraud or anyone at all, to be honest. I think of LF as my community and my people. This is the only place where I can talk about the Bad Man without feeling judged. I have yet to have one satisfying conversation about the Bad Man with anyone outside of this forum. People don’t understand. And to use one of my favorite sayings, “They don’t know, what they don’t know.” But here, we do know.
I am truly sorry if anything I said made another reader feel invalidated. For my own peace of mind, I have to say one more time, this was never my intention but I am sorry that someone experienced my comments in that way.
I had switched threads to get away from what felt like continual jabs at me, the LF Bad Girl. But again, my comments and intentions were misinterpreted. In the future, I will be more careful with my words and know that there is always the chance that someone won’t get me.
There’s a lot more I could say, but I won’t. I do not want this issue to fester.
Thanks again to all the wonderful people here, and by the way, I think ALL of the people here are wonderful and I have learned something from everyone who has dared to post their thoughts…. so thank you, thank you, thank you…
Today, I sign off by sending you all my Aloha!
The word “Aloha” is made up for two parts: “alo” and “ha”. “Alo” means face to face presence and “Ha” mean “the breath of life.” In sharing “my Aloha” with you, I am sharing my breath, my presence, my essence. I give you my “ha”… the breathe of life.
I still love Hawaii.
)
A Hui Hou!
(Until we meet again)
(Report abusive comment)
alohatraveler says:
I am back already… I just wanted to say a random thought. I love Oxy’s stories about the farm and the neighborhood squabbles.
For me, her stories bring her points to life. I rather like imagining her on the farm with the animals and such.
And as other readers share the details of their lives, they come to be full characters in 3-D. I liked hearing Lilygirl talk about her son and sitting on the porch with him, talking about life and healing.
And Beverly at the Church Social, treating her S as though he was a potted plant in the corner. I love this!
The way people share here is so rich.
Thanks again to all.
Aloha
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
One of the things I think we all need to keep in mind in dealing with not only each other, but people in general is that when you are in “difficulty”—pain, emotional or physical, from any source it makes us scared and scared people, just like my story of the little injured dog on the road, strike out.
At my facility we had so many people on staff who were verbally attacked by patients and families, mostly families, that I developed a program to teach them how to deal with this. Most of the non professional staff, who took the brunt of this were PERSONALLY INSULTED by the patients and families, and took it personally when it really wasn’t “personal.”
I called this program “Dealing with difficult families and families in difficulty” I talked to the staff about how the family was in crisis because of a sick family member, how their usual functioning was out the window, and that in their anger and frustration they would strike out at the nearest staff member. One big thing was that the family would ring for the nurse or attendant and the nurse or attendant would come promptly but not promptly enough for the family member who was angry at ANY wait. The family member would then attack staff with “I”ve been ringing for 30 minutes” (the staff member would know it was less than 5 minutes) so the staff member would start to defend themselves, pointing out that it was only 5 minutes, of course the family member would then become irate at “being called a liar” and the fight was on.
I suggested to staff that thy IGNORE THE OUTBURST which was NOT true, and say instead, “I’m sorry I took so long to get here, what can I do for you now that I am here?”
Most of the time this would completely defuse the situation that could have gone all the way to the top administration. Also, it took the “personality” out of it for the staff.
I told staff if the first “what can Ii do for you now that I am here?” didn’t defuse it they should repeat it one time, then if that didn’t do it, they were to say “I can see you are really upset Mrs. Smith, let me get the charge nurse for you”
Then, guess what the charge nurse would say? Yep, you got it right “I can see you are upset Mrs. Smith, what can I do for you now that I am here”
And, then if the charge nurse couldn’t solve it she was to get ME.
I have used this kind of thing in many different situations, not just in hospitals, but in business with an unhappy customer, etc.
Unfortunately, sometimes in emotionally charged situations where we feel personally attacked it is difficult to keep in mind where the person who is attacking us is coming from. If they are coming from a position of pain, anxiety and fear, I generally give them some leeway and don’t take it personally.
When they are coming from a general bullying position, I go the other direction and stand my ground, sometimes throwing in a little sarcasm like I did with the “Used aircraft broker” when he tried to bully me—okaaaay, a LOT of sarcasm, you guys know me too well! LOL So how I react to someone going off on me depends on where I think there intent lies, if it is from a position of pain I try to give them a lot of slack and “not take it personally.” If it’s what I perceive as overt bullying, I am not so “understanding” with them.
(Report abusive comment)
alohatraveler says:
Oxy,
You know what… that was so perfect for me today. I have had a few draining days for various reasons. My Dad just lost the vision in one of his eyes due to a “mini stroke.” Bad day at the Group Home. Bad Day at the Children’s shelter. Bad day or two in LoveFraud Land… (LFL)
)
This is off the subject but I don’t think anyone is paying attention to us anymore anyway… so I had a long horrible day working with a “child” that is almost 18. Myself and another counselor were assigned to this child and we spent the entire day redirecting her behavior, following her all over the place while being verbally abused and threatened. She is like that puppy in the street righ tnow. She can’t recognize when people are trying to help her.
I am totally emotionally drained and exausted from this day. It is difficult for me to take the abuse all day.. though you are right, it really isn’t personal… and now, I get paid for it! Perhaps this is a nudge from the universe to remind me what it was like with the Bad Man.
I feel really beat up right now. I have a lot of worries and a lot of sadness…. worried about Dad. Worried about some of the kids that I work with. Worried for my own safety… I don’t want to be assulted by this girl. She has assaulted other staff in the past and you know what.. it was really stressful seeing the looks on people’s faces as she was roaming the shelter. They know her and they know what she is capable of.
It’s funny but I feel like I am having a conversation with you out by the trash heap where we got dumped earlier.
I better go to bed so I will be prepared incase I have another day as super counselot. OOPS! That is funny! That was a typo… How about this… I am Aloha Counselot! I love it.
I feel like I am alone now out here hanging onto the end of this old Blog.
Good Night.
(Report abusive comment)
Beverly says:
I went to a music festival for a few days (on my own) and came back to find Free’s farewell post. No oooo. That saddened me, I am really gonna miss Free and I hope Free decides to come back. We all have our special connections with people here and many of us have stayed open minded, even posting with self confessed Ss – Mr. Green and Secret Monster!.
This is not the first time, that posters have clashed and I am sure it wont be the last. But for the more established posters here, I think each person has a different style of posting and having a sense of confidence in the poster, that however staunchley they say something, we KNOW its coming from a loving heart – like tough love, which is more easily done, when you have built up a rapport with people. For some of the new posters they may be fresh in their situation and feeling more volatile, but as someone here said, upholding respect is paramont. Its amazing how words can be so powerful but I find I get to ‘know’ a poster by their style of writing, whether they are the nervous type, the philosophical type, the calming type, the volatile type etc. I can always tell Oxy’s posts by the depth of thought and amount of words in CAPITAL LETTERS that she uses!! LOL.
(Report abusive comment)
amr says:
Dear Aloha,
Please do keep on writing your wonderful articles! I look forward to them. You have a unique and delicious style of writing, well worth cultivating and refining.
Incidentally, and I meant to mention this a few weeks back, I am also an Aries Rooster (who also doesn’t believe in astrology!), as well as matching perfectly all the more serious criteria presented by Liane recently (adventurousness, truthfulness, and compassion, if I remember correctly). Unfortunately (from my point of view) I am the twelve years older than you kind of rooster!
And I thought you’d like this little tale from “Love Fraud Land” too…
A few weeks back I wrote to Donna to ask her to pass on my e-mail address to “xxx” (not her real pseudonym), a Love Fraud contributor who appeared to be in considerable distress at the time, as we only live about 130kms apart (about 80 miles to all you Americans) here in south-eastern Australia.
Well eventually she e-mailed me – and I e-mailed her back – , and she happened to say amongst other things that she’d ring me when she had her phones reconnected (casualties of big bills incurred ringing her psychopath, a familiar tale).
A few more weeks passed. I was exiting the express lane with my daughter at the supermarket in my local town. And lo and behold it’s MY psychopath not three feet in front of me. I had not caught sight of him or his vehicle in the street for at least six months. He exits by one door (I had to resort finally in the end to a restraining order a few months ago). We exit by another, my heart thumping. Again he crosses the footpath in front of us. We hang back before proceeding out of the building. We cross to where my car is parked. Just at that moment my phone rings. I see a strange number on the display, and in the illogicality of the moment, my heart palpitating at an even greater rate, I think, oh no, it’s some kind of trap, it must be him! Instead an unfamiliar female voice says “It’s xxx from LoveFraud”.
(Report abusive comment)
Wini says:
Hi Beverly: I wrote you several times … but we probably were on this site at different times … and as other people write, our messages get kicked onto the rest of cyber space blog.
I hope all is well with you.
Let’s all pray that Free finds peace and comes back. She was fun to chat with. Yes, I agree, we’re all at different levels of handling this. Have to find patience with those that are at the beginning of this horrific saga and gracefully let them flower to be the best that they can be again.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Beverly says:
Hiya Wini, I was not on site for a few days and with all the threads it is easy to miss personal messages. I am ok thank you. Free is such a gentle soul and had an unwarranted attack launched by someone else and she bounced back, and I hope she recovers and comes back, like she did before, because she knows she has support here. I think it can be easy to misconstrue the kinds of information that people are putting across. A person who doesnt write very much, may come across as shallow and these are all assumptions which lead some people into building up a wrong profile of someone. Of course, with some of the older posters, we have a taste of their ‘essence’ and we know that they mean no harm and only good.
Peace and love to you Wini
(Report abusive comment)
Beverly says:
My apologies to you Wini, I will look back and try to find your postings. I always enjoy reading your posts.
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Aloha,
One of the reasons I retired when I did (about 6 months after my husband was killed) was that my job was sooooooo stressful after the plane crash and the resulting PTSD of being the first on the scene, taking care of my son’s burns, trying to take care of my step-dad who was dying with cancer at the time, etc etc. My job was so stressful because our manager had left for another job, the new temporary manager was trying to get me to take the managers’ job, which I did NOT want to do, and staff shortage along with increased patient census.
I think though it financially impacted me greatly to have no salary coming in that I made a wise decision. We have to look, I think, at the TOTAL stress load in our lives and figure out what we can get rid of in the way of responsibilities or tasks. I have studied the effects of stress on humans for decades. I finally started applying it to ME–I finally realized that it can overcome even ME. I am HUMAN! DUH!!!
I saw my short term memory fly out the window, I saw my judgment fly out the window, I saw my cranky, angry mood fly IN the window, I saw lots of things and I did not feel I was competent in that context to continue to work at a very demanding job that was highly stressful, AND do a good job of taking the responsibility for others lives in my stressed hands. So, I retired.
I can definitely relate to your job where you work. I worked in an adolescent psych unit for a yr and a half and quit that job and went to a much less dangerous, violent and angry job, because the stres sof dealing with violence and anger from patients was too much after a while. Plus, physical safety was definitely not assured at the facility I was working at. Good decision.
I’m recovering now, but I know I still dont’ have the RESERVE strengths to cope with continual stress so I work very hard at decreasing stress in my life. I have been doing that by several methods, one was SETTING BOUNDARIES with others. Since good boundary setting was not “natural” with me, it actually created short term stress for me in “working up” to doing it. But, once it was done and the stress that had caused me to need to set boundaries was there, the NET effect was a decrease in stress.
Things like your dad’s health isn’t anything you can get the stress out of your life, it just IS what it IS, and the timing can’t be changed. Things like your job might be something you might look at and see if you can find another job that is not quite so stressful. Job changing in itself is a stress, but at the same time, if you can get one that isn’t quite so violent etc. maybe the NET effect would be a decrease in stress.
“Burn out” in stressful jobs like you have is not unusual, and so it is something for you to think about.
Cutting out your second job might be an option, though I know you need the extra income to work on your debts etc. but look at ALL the aspects of your life where there is stress and see what you can do to cut down on the stress.
My psych counselor kept pushing me to “get out more” and to “go places” and I coudln’t get him to see that A) that is stressful to me, not de-stressing, and B) I don’t have the extra money to be buying gas to run up and down the road to see my friends all the time (most live at a distance of 30-60 minutes driviing time) C) I LIKE being here on the farm D) I know what stresses me, I’m aware of things that make me more stressed. While HIS idea of destressing might be to visit someone, that would stress ME
Before all this hub-bub of last year I realized that I needed to cut my stress. I had not taken care of MY business interests and had actually lost tens of thousands of dollars in the decline in value of items that I needed to sell. I tried to put limits on the amount of time I spent entertaining my mother. I.e. SETTING BOUNDARIES with her—of course, she resented the heck out of that as she had come to expect that I would put everything on the back burner to take care of her wants, no matter what it cost ME to do so.
I enforced those boundaries, much to my eventual regret when she let the Trojan Horse P move in with her and be her caregiver/companion who was at her beck and call 24/7, and seemingly enjoyed doing it. Of course it was only about a month before he started getting money for her for this or that, plus the salary she was paying him. Plus, I have no doubt that it wasn’t long after he moved in that he started drugging her which made her more feeble mentally as well as physically, and of course made her sleep a good deal of the time which allowed him to rifle her financial papers etc. Then shortly after that he started the affair with my DIL which gave him even more information and power. Before all this my mom, like me, had never fully trusted our DIL, and in fact, not trusting her was one of the main reasons that we had the trust drawn up anyway, because we were afraid that after her dependent son died, she would take off and we didn’t want her to take off with any of my son C’s assets if he had inherited anything before she left. Up until that time we really didn’t know what was going on, and by March (he moved in about Thanksgiving) they already had her convinced I was out to control her and her money and my power of attorney had been revoked (unknown to me) and money transferred to the control of DIL, along with a POA to son C AND DIL. So they were in control by the first of March of not only mother but her money as well. I didn’t find out until May, and by that time mother was so drugged she could hardly stutter out a coherent sentence and could barely walk with a walker.
Of course from DEcember to May it was STRESS CENTRAL around here, and when I found out in early May that TH-P was a sex offender I got a Private Investigator to get me the dope on him which was AWFUL. Of course Mom wouldn’t believe any of these “lies” I had “made up” or even the picture rap sheet that I had “Fabricated on my computer” (since I am the MOST computer illiterate person you could know this was ridiculous) no one would look at my evidence.
KNowing by that time that my P-son was involved with all of this and that he was the master-mind behind it, and knowing the “loop hole” in the trust, that if I died first before mom, he couldn’t be cut out of all family assets, I realized that my LIFE WAS IN DANGER. Thank God at that point I did listen to my GUT and realize I couldn’t be safe in my home with the TH-P living at my mother’s so fled. Which actually added more STRESS to my life, leaving my home, the financial outlay for the RV to live in etc. but the safety of being away did give me some lower stress time. By that time I needed it desperately.
IN August, the TH-P and the DIL were arrested for trying to kill son C who had discovered their affair (but had told no one else) some of the stress was relieved.
It was only by December I felt safe enough to come home. It is only now that I am home, and feeling some better after my tick fever last summer, that I am really feeling like I am healing. NC with mother is the only way to go on that too, as she is not willing to acknowledge her part in all of this, or her enabling, etc. I no longer try to please her or let “what would mother think was right” influence what I do, or how I think.
Stress is a cumulative weigh on our backs, the bigger the stress and the longer we carry it the longer it takes to regain our strength.
I liken it to physical weight. A person can carry a 100 pound sack of potatoes maybe to the next town if it isn’t too far away, but carrying a 5 pound sack of potatoes to the nearest ocean may be an impossible task. Long distance runners that carry a pack cut the handle off their tooth brushes to decrease the weight of their packs by even a half ounce as carrying it a LONG distance makes it very heavy.
Since I have had a TREMENDOUS weight of stress on my back for so LONG I realize it will take me a long while to completely recover my emotional strength and reserves.
REtiring, and thus losing my greatest income was a stress, but the net of that stress reducing move was not so much money, but peace from that stress, so it was I think a good trade off.
NC with my P-son was a stress for sure, but the NET was decreased stress eventually. Ditto with my NC with Mom. The DIL is OUT OF OUR LIVES, and that is a BIG stress reduction. My son moving away was a stress, but our improved relationship is a big positive, so the net there is a big decrease in stress. The TH-P going to prison was a decrease in stress, him maybe getting out was an increase in stress, but I worked with the parole board and he is in til his sentence is done, so that is a big stress reduction.
Being home is a big stress reduction, taking care of my own business needs is a big stress reduction, though I am working harder than ever before in many ways. I can see progress and that helps to keep me motivated to keep on working.
Prices keep going up up up and my income isn’t so that is a stress, but I don’t have any problem cutting out the entertainment part of our budget to make up for that. I provide most of my entertainment here for myself any way. I’m frugal and don’t mind shopping for work clothes at the resale shops or the Goodwill store, who’s gonna laugh at my second hand tee shirt, the donkeys?
I barter for some things I could not do without and that helps too. I now have an expert mechanic who will do things that my son D isn’t expert enough to handle and I can pay in beef which I have a surplus of. I’m happy and the mechanic and his family are happy. I no longer have to repair fences on the farm or cut the weeds, because the people who rent the pasture do that, and they also feed my cattle and donkeys with hay they bale here on the farm, so I have no expense for my livestock which saves a considerable amount of money and work for me.
I have other friends who trade things with me, or trade out labor and barter with us. This helps keep both the financial aspect lower, but also strengthens bonds with people. There are just so many things I can think of that help to decrease the stress load on me, and the easiest one is to say “NO” when I feel no and don’t worry about it. I’m feeling peaceful here again in my sanctuary. Safe again. MY own little domain where I don’t have to dance to any tune but my own, and I am the fiddler.
I encourage all of you to look at your life and see where you are feeling stress from and see if there isn’t some way some how that you can decrease the stresses in your life. It may mean cutting out some friendship that is stressful, or going NC with a particularly stressful person, but it pays big dividends in the end and allows you to restore some of your emotional reserves. Tired isn’t just physical it is emotional too. Like Blondie said about talking to X-P she is TIRED of working on the relationship. Feeling tired emotionally is just like tired physically, you need a REST from it all.
I guess I have rambled on another “novel” —today is the anniversary of my husband’s death, 4 years ago. I had a couple of weepy days, especially when the young man who was 16 at the time and his mother came by to visit. His scars from the burns are so terrible, but thank God his face was spared, and he is doing so well, so it was a bittersweet visit.
Take care all, and keep on the road to healing, it does get better, and decreasing stress is one of the things you can do to yourself and for yourself to make it easier. (((all))))
(Report abusive comment)
Wini says:
Hi Beverly: I guess when we all don’t log in at the same time, we have to have conversations with ourselves (LOL). Hey, I’m used to it now … it’s been over 2 years since my EX moved out. Now it’s just me and my furry children (aka Pets). Speaking of pets. I tried to rescue this little baby bird that fell out of the tree. I don’t know how long he was baking on the sidewalk and when it happened. I feed him with an eye dropper baby food for birds (I have birds) mixed with water. Everything was fine … he ate it all up … I think he was paralyzed due to the fall. I had him on this nice cushion inside a plastic box. He was sleeping … then sadly, he was gone. So I just got in from burying him in my garden. So, I’m not doing good at this writing.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wini says:
Beverly, there is a parable I wrote to Henry chatting with him a few nights back. He was down in the dumps and this parable just popped into my mind. The one about the turtle and the scorpion.
You just never know what people pull out of your brains on these blogs. Something they write or a conversation that you are having … the urekka, out pops a memory they’ve stirred up… so I wrote it back to him.
I also remembered seeing these movies (again) after my EX left and realized he took most of his m.o. from these movies. Clip, clip here, clip, clip there … and that become his lifestyle … along with what I did for him. Sad. It makes me so sad inside knowing that they are ALL so screwed up inside. It just breaks my heart that they live year after year like this … in their BIG EGOS … without realizing God give us everything we need. If we want more, God provides those requests too. Very simple. Yet them living in their egos makes everything so difficult, not only for them, but everyone else they run into on their journey through life. I’m telling you, the courts have got to change things around and not assuming they are all has beens … Tolle explains how the ego works from God’s perspective, not what the egos and their assumptions are. It should be mandatory that Tolle’s book and the Bible are must reads for anyone doing time. Their release should be supervised by those in halfway houses ensuring Tolle’s theories are repeated and encouraging them step by step to go out in the world being humble and reading the word of God instead of living by what they’re egos dictate.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
style1 says:
What a good blog..I was led here from another.. and it just reaffirmed the way that I was hooked in, what good insights.. and how expert the predators are. Do they consciously know what they are doing? Mine was very intelligent and read all the time.. and studied and had a degree in Philosophy, religion, and history and read new age, spiritual type things all the time.. he studied people.. he watched.. was it consious the way that he played me and others? Or out of his neediness to have control and be in a marriage like relationship… I never was totally hooked in so the emotional toll wasn’t as bad as it might have been. I say through him on levels .. his love love love, his I have been looking for you all my life.. his “you are my soulmate”..blah blah blah and blah..
what he needed was a place to live… sure, he wanted that love relationship but he little ability for intimacy… yet he hooked me in my that pathway to pleasure … phone calls, flowers, attention that made me feel so cared for even as it suffacated me…
what a nightmare … what strangeness..
(Report abusive comment)
style1 says:
Yeah.. I just read what I wrote in the blog above and get it.. and it is true..
But just got back from the grocery store and was recallng last year and us being together … and my calls to him about what he wanted and what to cook and this and that…and this year I am with out a partner.. oh, I have spent many holidays with out a partner.. but he and I spent two Christmases togehter..so YEP.. I find myself wondering .. is he thinking of me.. does he miss me … is he with someone else.. BLAH BLAH BLAH…GEEZ! crosses my mind to call him to wish him Merry Christmas… my stomach is queasy…..has he replaced me already? All those thoughts.. too much time to think and remember.. and I wasn’t even all that happy with him last Christmas but he was here with me…
all these thoughts and feelings.. and the ups and downs… Blah!
(Report abusive comment)
eileen says:
Hi Style1 – I just posted something in another thread on what a sadist my S is – he is definitely conscious of what he does – very calculated, refined sadism… I was surprised when I met him first, that unlike other men on a first date he wasn’t going on about himself, but instead he was asking me lots of questions – to find out how best to hook me, of course. Also tried to work out if I had many friends etc. I didn’t realise in real time but I do now. He read a lot of psychology. Only way they can learn about emotions to fake them and manipulate others’. Sorry if I’m a bit blunt there…but if he is a sociopath he doesn’t miss you at all (or maybe he misses the lifestyle/status he enjoyed thanks to you), and yes he is on the hunt for his next victim or already has one, if not a few on the go.
and above all don’t call him! try and limit your thoughts about him this christmas to hoping his turkey chokes him.
Be patient with yourself – I’m the same when I feel lonely I miss the illusion he gave me – that’s the way it goes, try and be rational, keep reading the blog, it will help
(Report abusive comment)
style1 says:
Eileen.. yes.. the seaon has me thinking back to the dream of what he created… He met me three months after the death of his last wife and was in love with me in two weeks..
So yes, we have been apart a long time.. so he has probaly met his next place to live…and I don’t even cross his mind..and when he talked about her .. I felt no loss or affection for her coming from him. But accordng to him it was over in the first few months of the marriage.. but he couldn’t afford a divorce so they stayed together.. he let her live in his out out of kindess even though she was violent.. then she died of a perscriptio overdose.. When I asked him about her.. the only good thing that he said is that she was really good looking.. and he married her after like two weeks of knowing her.. then she got fat because apparently she stayed in bed all the time.. it was a bizarre story.. as it became revealed to me.. and when I would inquire further.. he would say don’t talk about the dead..
And his second wife the one that molested his daughter he claimed was also violent.. and she was also an alcholic.. yet he had two kids with this woman and one died of a brain tumor and her son before him died of an overdose.. his history is a nightmare..
then he meets me.. and accuses me of being violent when I punch him in the arm… and I have never been called violent in my life… and a man that I workout with.. I punch in the arm to make a point and he laughs… I asked him if he thought that I am violent since I punch him in the arm.. and he looked at me ‘Like.. what!?’
Okay.. I am pulling out of my melancholia now… I need to go workout..
So yeah.. if he had the opportunity to meet a woman with resources.. and that he could sell on his romantic, spiritual con.. and the big deals that he has in the works that will enable him to give her the world.. he would move in with her.. and start taking over her life…
!@#$%^&*
(Report abusive comment)
eileen says:
Hi Style – his history… it just doesn’t add up… my guess is that he was the abusive one in all those relationships…you write it’s a nightmare, but it could also be totally part of the scam. They have a habit of turning stories around – they are not that creative in their lies, they use the truth and distort it completely to their advantage. My ex sold me a similar story of family abuse, with him emerging not only as a victim but as a hero protecting his siblings…then blah blah blah whatever – whatever. Nothing was true. He has always been an abuser. Sociopaths thrive on pity but they don’t deserve it…if their lives is a mess now it’s their own fault… he certainly doesn’t deserve your melancholia…
(Report abusive comment)
style1 says:
Eileen… thanks..just talked to my Dad and he asked about him.. and told me that he thought that I had a good one with him.. hen I told Dad that I was feeling a bit lonely this year…
This guy really turned it on for my Dad.. and he acted like he adored me which my Dad thought .. great this man loves my daughter and will take good care of her..
Right! When this guy was setting me up.. I haven’t told Dad the full deal.. why bother…
I again need to go work out..
I agree that his history doesn’t pan out … if he calls me violent when he claims that he was married to a woman that came after him with a knife, molested his children and was an alcoholic…
My friends agree.. something is off in his history.. why so many violent woman and when I asked what triggered their violence.. He didn’t have a clue…
When I punched him in the arm .. I know why.. I was frustrated as all get out….
soooooo one of my girlfriends… known me for 15 years.. told me if this guy calls you violent he can’t see straight.. you are the most not violent and caring woman that there is…
She told me to get rid of him.. that he won’t allow you to show your feelings.. that you must do and feel as he wants..
But I still have this little lonely lost feeling.. that hopefully will vanish after I workout hard….
This site really helps….to vent…
(Report abusive comment)
eileen says:
You should really – work out, yes
– and tell your dad the truth. It helps when your friends and relatives know what you’ve been through. It’s an eye opener for everyone as well – the more people are aware of what sociopaths do the better…I told everyone I knew who had met him (“you know that lovely guy you saw me with – he had other women at the same time took money from me lied about everything and has become a menace since I found him out”) – it’s unlikely they ever see him again so it’s nothing to do with him – but it’s important to share the knowledge. Enjoy the workout!
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
dear eileen and style:
“My ex sold me a similar story of family abuse, with him emerging not only as a victim but as a hero protecting his siblings…then blah blah blah whatever – whatever” MINE FREAKIN’ TOO.
SYMPATHY, EMPATHY, ONE STEP’S SUCKER SIGN ON HER FOREHEAD!
The spath i tangled with had a bunch o’ sock puppets and she GAVE THEM PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDERS…GEEZUS!
Style, I find it ver therapuetic to ‘send them up’, so if you want to get into poking some fun at that POOOOOR sad thang, I’m game!
I actually had a little fantasy today about creating a ‘sock puppet’ video for you tube.
and there would be a ‘really big shoe’ in it also. (the other one that ‘HE’ was always fearing was going to fall on ‘his’ head) it feel alright but not on him/her. IF FEEL ON F**KIN’ ME and the COUNTLESS OTHERS she HAS DUPED.
(of course there would only be ONE sock needed. preferable something I could wear in my work boots for the winter….snort!)
need someone to do the voices for me. accepting audition tapes now.
(Report abusive comment)
style1 says:
Well.. I worked out and feel better.. but still am sad…
My Dad is 85.. I have told him some things about the guy.. but not all.. the deal is that he gave such a good impression o how much he cared for me.. and he was on the board of a bank and his CV was impressive and he behaves so well and is attracted.. that my Dad was sold.. he even offered to pay for our wedding.. to which neither of us said a word.. but he also told him that I had been though so much and that if he hurts me that he will have him killed.. which of course, was just his way of saying don’t hurt my daughter… I do recall when Dad said that he was eating but he kind of gulped…
The whole thing is still bizarre to me at times.. I was looking at photos of us last year… and while I wasn’t happy … it looked like we were.. we looked like the darling middle-adged couple..
I will tell Dad more when I see him next.. he just wants so badly for me to have a good man in my life.. all my men have turned out to be jerks on some level..My first one.. could give Tiger a run for it.. Married him right out of college.. and he lived a double life.. I mean it goes on and on and just one creep after another.. but sophisticated creeps.. educated, looks good but bad.. and I was always the one harmed…. it’s amazing that I am still standing.. it is my faith in God and I liv well and honorably… I have even had to file a sexual harrassment lawsuit against a prominent financial advisor in out community who contacted me to write a book with him..
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
I thought I’d reach into LF’s bag of tricks and bring this one back.
Hens,dear heart, this one is for you….and all the rest of us as well.
I was thinking about you last night as I tried to sleep, and wondered what it was that was triggering your sense of lonliness, and why you were missing him so much.
I feel that way once in a blue moon, now…not often, but occasionally, and it always helps to insist that I be honest with myself. I won’t allow myself to stay long in rose colored glasses land….
When I pull my focus away from the very few and far between moments of contentment, and the fleeting sense I had of happiness; when I force myself to see it for what it was: a rollar-coaster ride through hell, I quite missing him, and become truley grateful it’s over!
Hens, I don’t think you miss HIM, so much as you are just lonely and wanting that special connection that we all want…
But like the above article says, the pleasure we truley got out of the relationship was gone long ago…all that’s left is the craving.
In healthy relationships, we still derive real pleasure, not just a harrowing, crazy making memory that teases and taunts, often drawing us back into hell.
Hope you’re feeling better, Hens.
And here’s hoping all my LF friends have a wonder filled day.
(Report abusive comment)
Buttons says:
Kim, you are so awesome – this relates to everyone’s healing process, I think. God bless you!
(Report abusive comment)