“Will I ever be the same” (Part 2)
PDF A syndrome called post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can affect victims of sociopaths. The trauma of losing love, friends, family, possessions and of enduring psychological/physical abuse is the cause of this disorder. To fight the symptoms of PTSD, it is helpful to understand the symptoms and how they relate to loss and trauma.
As I read through the current literature on PTSD, I quickly discovered that there is a fair amount of controversy regarding this disorder. We can actually learn about the disorder by listening to the arguments. The first question on which there is much disagreement is, “What trauma is severe enough to cause PTSD?” There were several editorials by experts disparaging the fact that everything from giving birth to a healthy baby to a boss yelling at an employee is now said to cause PTSD. Most experts are in favor of reserving this diagnosis for people who have suffered truly unusual life experiences, like kidnapping, rape, war, 911, etc.
The problem is that many people do experience severe stress reactions to difficult life circumstances. It remains to be determined what we should call these reactions.
Those of us healing from our relationship with a sociopath often vacillate between accepting the trauma and minimizing it. Thus, the argument about what kinds of trauma are severe enough to cause PTSD has a direct effect on us. The argument can leave us feeling weak, like we should be able to get over this. After all it wasn’t as bad as 911, Iraq or Katrina—or was it?
The second question is “what symptoms constitute PTSD?” The following table shows the most common symptoms seen in a group of 103 British men and women diagnosed by psychiatrists with PTSD (Current Medical Research Opinion, 2003):
| Symptom | Frequency (n=103) |
| Insomnia | 98 (95%) |
| Anxiety at reminder cues | 96 (93%) |
| Intrusive thoughts, images, sounds, sensations | 94 (91%) |
| Irritability | 93 (91%) |
| Poor concentration | 93 (91%) |
| Diminished interest in significant activities | 88 (85%) |
| Recurrent dreams of trauma | 86 (83%) |
| Avoidance of activities or places associated with the trauma | 85 (83%) |
| Foreshortening of expectations about the future | 80 (78%) |
| Detachment from others | 78 (76%) |
| Avoidance of thinking or conversing about the trauma | 75 (73%) |
| Poor appetite | 69 (67%) |
| Hypervigilance | 55 (53%) |
| Startle reactions | 46 (45%) |
| Acting or feeling as if the event was recurring | 37 (31%) |
| Inability to recall parts of trauma (amnesia) | 19 (18%) |
I put up this table because I thought that a number of you would also endorse these symptoms. Notice that “acting or feeling as if the event was recurring” was really not that common. But similar symptoms, like “Intrusive thoughts, images sounds and sensations,” were very common. Amnesia was also uncommon. Startle reactions were only seen in half of the subjects.
A feeling of a foreshortened future is a particularly debilitating symptom because it impairs a person’s ability to plan for the future and leads to a sense of hopelessness. I will expand on this further, but I strongly believe this feeling of a foreshortened future has to do less with our thoughts about our past, and more with our thoughts about our present.
As I look at this list of symptoms, I am struck by the fact that many, many of those writing into Lovefraud complain of these symptoms, particularly nightmares. There is something special about having had emotional involvement with an aggressor that seems to produce nightmares. Since so many have all of the most common symptoms, I think it has to be that the trauma of life with a sociopath is severe enough to cause this disorder in many people.
Here’s where defining exactly what trauma is gets sticky. Rachael Yehuda, Ph.D., said in a recent article published on MedScape, “One of the things that biology has taught us is that PTSD represents a type of a response to trauma, but not the only type of response. It is a response that seems to be about the failure to consolidate a memory in such a way as to be able to be recalled without distress.” Well, this is precisely the definition that is too broad. I personally have a lot of memories that I experience or re-experience with distress. Yet these memories are not accompanied by the list of symptoms in the table above.
For me what made the experience traumatic was the truly life course-changing nature of the trauma. The answer to the question, “Will I ever be the same?” for me defines trauma significant enough to cause PTSD. The trauma that causes this disorder redefines us in a way that is different from other emotionally significant experiences. This trauma strikes at the core of our identity.
The final controversy surrounds the treatment of PTSD. Interestingly, there is no question that medications (SSRIs, particularly Zoloft) are very helpful. The problem is though that when a person goes to a physician and receives a medication, he/she is by definition “sick.” Assumption of a “sick role” or “victim identity” is one of the many factors that slow recovery from PTSD.
Many therapists are of the belief that “debriefing” or retelling the story is necessary for recovery. One group of researchers reviewed the studies on debriefing and concluded that there is no scientific evidence that it prevents PTSD. Instead, the evidence points to post-trauma factors like social support and “additional life stress” being most important.
How can we put this all together? Considering last week’s post, those who experience trauma serious enough to have stress hormone overdose as manifested by dissociation, are likely to also develop PTSD. An examination of the symptoms of PTSD reveals that at the core of the disorder is the fact that the person really doesn’t believe in his/her heart that the trauma has ended. PTSD is about ONGOING, not past, trauma. For those of us whose lives were assaulted by a sociopath, there is ongoing stress. The stress is the social isolation, financial ruin, and threatened further losses long after the relationship has ended. Those who recover from this without PTSD work hard to put the trauma behind them in every way.
Putting the trauma behind you does not mean you can’t take medication to help with the process. It does mean facing those bills, former friends, and other personal issues you want to avoid. Remember AVOIDANCE STRENGTHENS FEAR.
Above all, stop the ongoing trauma by ending contact with the sociopath. Do not assume a sick role, instead, work to stay healthy. Fight to be the person you want to be. Don’t allow this single experience to define you. Make living for today the place you love to be. As Louise Gallagher says in her recent post, “This is, in many ways, the greatest challenge of recovery – to accept the past is simply the route I took to get to where I am today, a place I love to be. The past cannot be changed. It cannot be altered. It cannot be made ‘better.’ It can only be accepted so that it, and I, may rest in peace with what was, eager to accept what is true in my life today.”
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
Louise says:
Superkid:
Wow, yay…good for you!!!! I am soooooo proud of you. VERY proud of you!!!!
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Ox Drover says:
Well, back for a bit this morning to catch up on the rest of the convo from last night (I was dead tired and went to bed early) Turns out I have ANOTHER case of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever….so no wonder I’ve been feeling “lethargic” and tired lately. Sheesh!
Anyway, I have LITTLE TO NO CONFIDENCE IN MYERS BRIGGS test. Yea, I know there are “professionals” that do have, and all that, but Dr. J. Reid Meloy also uses the INK BLOT TESTS as well and they have pretty well been DE-bunked by most professionals.
Frankly, there are lots of folks with PhDs in psychology that are themselves psychopaths and/or nut jobs! LOL So I don’t have a lot of confidence in “surveys” or “self reported” questions unless the answers are more or less OBJECTIVE rather than SUBJECTIVE.
Actually this is one reason that it is so difficult to get agreements on various psychological diagnoses because there is no “blood test” for depression, or bi-polar or psychopathy etc. that can say, yep, he has it, or doesn’t have it, and it is 100 on a scale of 0-1000.
So, realizing that, accepting that, the only way a “diagnosis” (or label) can be drawn up is to use OBSERVATION and SELF REPORTED behaviors and thinking which is a pretty inexact way to come up with a definition of behavior. B. F. Skinner did a lot of more scientific studies of behavior though, using the dogs (Sorry One/Joy LOL) and the bell ringing before feeding them so that they associated the bell with food, and their body started to respond to the BELL as if FOOD was present, so there was something that could be MEASURED…
Right now there are scientific studies being done on people who are OBVIOUSLY PSYCHOPATHIC (generally prisoners) with the fMRI scans—again, though, I’m not sure I have a LOT of confidence in the fMRI scans as there has been some evidence that they may not be as accurate as some people think, but it is a START. It is a way to look at thinking and behaviors in an OBJECTIVE way rather than SUBJECTIVE.
Baron-Cohen’s studies of Autism and his BELL CURVE of empathy and his divisoning of it into Zero-empathy + and negative, with the two extremes, one in which the person (autistic) has zero empathy but doesn’t use that to hurt others or enjoy other’s suffering, and the person with zero empathy who somehow gets gleeful rewards from hurting others.
None of us have 100% empathy and few individuals have Total zero empathy 100% of the time…so there is some variation in the amount and quality of empathy that someone feels and displays. If we had 100% empathy we would never be able to drive by a homeless man on the street without taking them in.
I need another dog like I need another hole in my head, but yesterday my son came home from a weekend of working staff at the Boy Scout ranch and brought home the ugliest, but sweetest, little hound dog who had been out there for weeks and was doomed to be shot before long….she is well behaved, sits or lies down when you tell her to, is house broken, and gets along with cats, but he was already bonded to her and I allowed my love and empathy for HIM to overcome my good sense that we don’t need another dog…LOL but the likelyhood is that when we get another “abandoned” dog dropped off out here and it hangs around looking pitiful and hungry and sick, that most likely he or I will put it down rather than see it starve. People in town who get tired of a dog or can’t afford it seem to think that dropping it off in the country will secure it a home, but most times it only secures it a death by “Lead poisoning,” if it is lucky, or attack by coyotes if it is not. The newest member of our family is a very lucky little dog.
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Louise says:
Oxy:
Sorry to hear you are sick
I hope you get over this soon.
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Ox Drover says:
Thanks, Louise, This makes my third round of Rocky Mountain Spotted fever…and my little dog, Bud, has has another variety of tick borne disease but is finally over it now it seems…but that is one of the hazards of living in the country…and my cats brought up a DEAD (thank you kitties!) baby water moccocin snake this morning, about half the size of a pencil and about half as long…and since that kind snake gives birth to live babies from 6-10 at a time, I am sure he has some sibs out there that the kitties didn’t find and kill. GOOD KITTIES!!!!!
So while there may be SNAKES IN SUITS in town, there are some SNAKES in SKINS out here in the boonies and parasites that harbor diseases that make us sick….just like psychopaths.
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darwinsmom says:
Wow, EB… how much that anaesthetic reveals he saw you as a tool. Yes that would surely influence your sexual experience, even now.
Don’t think I’ll stay celibate for a long time. I have good sexual memories to fall back on, even if they were only for one night. I think I can enjoy sex in not so distant time again with a man, but for the first time I’d have a great difficulty with letting sleep over. So, I’d probably require them to leave so I can sleep in peace by myself.
I did that test on those 9 profiles and I don’t buy it. It couldn’t give a conclusive answer… making me either a 2 or 7 (equal highest score), and neither which I fully agreed with. It does not describe temperament much imo. It seems more like a personality description from a horoscope.
I actually like the Meyers Briggs temperamental types. And you can easily find your basic 4 temperament pillars without an extensive questionnaire. 4 questions is enough to define your type.
I once heard an axplanation regarding personality, comparable to an onion. At the heart is the temperament. This is was you are born with, and therefore genetic or physical. You can never alter your temperament. If you try, you end up risking an identity crisis. Extraversion and Introversion is innate for example. It has to do with how you re-energize. An extravert gets re-energized through social contact and events, and often has a surplus of energy and needs to let off steam. They can enjoy being by themselves, but it will more likely mess up their energy balance to be alone for too long. An introvert needs to retreat once in a while to re-energize. They can love social contact, but it costs them energy.
Anyway, the layers of the onion around the heart of it, are built up in stages with life’s experience: from direct family environment, education, etc. Therefore the complete personality can change over time and life, except for the temperament.
I suffered from an id crisis when I was 24, because of a relationship with an introvert. He didn’t like to go out much or for long, and was annoyed with me when my extraverted nature relished when we did go out. He also could not understand why I could be upset at certain things, such as the news, not understanding it was a vehicle to let off steam of excess energy. I was young and didn’t know how energy use could be so different, and I lived like an introvert for 5 years. No wonder I felt deflated and was out of touch with myself. I felt cooped up.
The everlasting problem of psychology and the research of the mind. Yes the behaviourists such as Skinner and Pavlov found a way to measure certain things… but they could only measure behaviour, the outcome of the mind in comparison to an external input. They could not however say anything about what happened between input and output. Neurology is an important part of pyschiatry, but once again, it can only research the brain as a physical object with all its chemical processes. It cannot go into the mind of people. The only way to actually determine at the moment what people think and experience is still subjective. A science that tries to create mind models is cognitive science . They do this by making computer and robotic models of processes. Thus they create a type of simulation model, based on a hypotheses on how the mind may work for certain aspects (such as how does the mind ‘see’, how does the mind ‘hear’, how does the mind make visuals when they hear a word like ‘dog’ even if there is no dog around, etc…). At the very best though, they can only say, it is very probable that the mind uses model x to accomplish y, because the computer/robot can do it this way and its the simplest data way to accomplish it… But for all we know, nature does it totally differently.
Anyway, if you are interested in psychology and mind processes using objective tools, then cognitive science is worth looking at.
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Louise says:
Oxy:
Wow, three times. Sorry to hear that. So funny though that it seems you can’t escape the SNAKES no matter where you are!
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superkid10 says:
I can’t believe he numbed you up for sex.
Asshole.
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skylar says:
EB,
mine didn’t numb me, or chizzle me. he really really wanted me to get off and form an addiction to him. So he brought me a vibrator too. Interesting…
And yeah, I think maybe he regretted it too.
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dancingnancies says:
wow EB. I just read what you wrote about what he did, and I am absolutely appalled and plain repulsed. To be honest, it blows my mind that anyone could even conceive of doing anything like that. Seriously… it is beyond the sphere of my imagination. That is sick.
I am so sorry that you had to go through that.
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ErinBrock says:
….
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Ox Drover says:
EB,
It is strange how we start to remember things that happened so long ago.
The VIALS were medication meant for injection, but applied topically, they would numb the mucus membrane of the genital areas and would keep him from having a premature ejaculation. They would also keep you from experiencing much in the way of sensation as well. What a selfish person he was. Also, what a pedophile! What a pervert! What a CREEP!
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superkid10 says:
ErinBrock
It was the same with my spath.
I don’t recall one single date where it wasn’t about sex. Not one.
Sex everywhere, every time.
Last time, I ran out of the house screaming and crying.
There isn’t going to be a next time.
SK
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ErinBrock says:
.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
Constantine – think you are correct about my n ex being a 3. I did the test a while ago, but i don’t remember what my number was. i am so different now than how i have been most of my life that i don’t feel comfortable doing this sort of test.
why do i feel like i have written this before???
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Constantine says:
One Joy,
Yes, be skeptical of any online tests. As I said before, the best resource (for those with an interest) is Richard Riso’s “Personality Types.” For a few odd dollars on Amazon, I think it’s well worth it. (And in the book there are no “tests” per se. You just sort of open it at random and start reading….)
Skylar,
I know you are a five because you are quirky in a lot of the same ways that I’m quirky! For that matter, even your name “Skylar” (i.e., “protection through knowledge”) pretty much defines the very quintessence of “fiveness.”
But again, it’s important to remember that ALL the types are equal at their healthy levels, and each has it’s own peculiar charm. (This fact is not made terribly clear on the various online sites.) So EB, for example, might well be an “eight,” but I would say she’s a very healthy eight. In the same way, I’m sure there are many “threes” here (i.e, my spath’s number, but at the disordered level), who are nevertheless well into the agreeable and healthy ranges of “threeness,” etc. etc.
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ElizabethBennett says:
My spath was all about sex too-I guess primarily because I was the OW. I don’t know what’s up with me today. For some reason I am feeling bad about all that stuff. And other stuff. I had the worst interview with a very spathy nurse manager for an ICU job. I had to interview with 2 men, which is unusual. First they made me wait for a half hour. They spent the whole time trying to intimidate me and make me feel small, and it worked like a charm. This guy gave off the vibe that he hated women and was very creepy. Toxicity was screaming at me after spending less than two minutes in there.
It appears that my N next door is trying to turn other neighbors against me. What is this-high school? I am just so freakin sick of all of them today. I hate narcissists so much.
EB-what happened to you with the lidocaine was evil. What a selfish inconsiderate POS to do that to you. All this talk about sex is a little triggering today. It reminds me of the fact that all I was was sex to him. I feel so dirty-like I did when I was raped. It’s amazing how one interview with a spath can take all my confidence down so low. I can’t put my finger on why I feel so worthless today. It’s amazing how you can be doing so well and then relapse like thi
It’s been a long time since I felt this way and I don’t feel comfortable like this anymore. I have been feeling about 2 inches high all afternoon.
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darwinsmom says:
Oh, EB… that sounds just total sick of him. It ust be rough to peace all that together so many years later, but I think you wouldn’t be unless you were finally ready for the big picture of that. I’m so sorry for your teen and adult self, who had only that for a chronic experience.
BTW, mine insisted on having my pubic hair shaved as well. I never minded trimming it somewhat, but anything further I used to regard as ‘plucken chicken’ and rather ‘pedo’. Anyway, he bugged and bugged me about it. Told him I didn’t wanna look like a ‘plucked chicken’ and that ‘I was a grown woman, not a 12-year old.’ Then one day under the shower begged me to do it for me. He did it carefully though. Was a weird experience. He convinced me with the ‘excuse that it would be nicer to give head.’ The last time we were together in Nicaragua though I stopped razing it fully. Told him that it was uncomfortable and actually troublesome, because it dried out the pubic skin, which lead to rashes, not to mention all the prickling irritation when the stubbles grew back.
And as for the hea: Well he didn’t give all that much head, and when he did it was insufficient. Plus he complained about taste and odor. It really hurt the first time he said that. I kicked him out of bed for it. Got the whole ‘Can’t I make an observation? I’m not syaing it to hurt you.’ I woke up from a memory of that moment in May one time, finally feeling the tremendous hurt those words had caused, knowing he had meant it to hurt me in a way that I could not argue. So, I call that total BULL! I was hygienic and showered every day, and after sex. But while I was with him I had to use a whole range of products. Strangely enough, I agree about the odor… It wasn’t until the last time in Nicaragua that I realized it was because of his semen… the two fluids together were apparently incompatible.
As a result, when I had that one night stand with the Peruvian young man with whom nothing was wrong, but triggered me lots anyway, I jumped in the shower instantly after sex, even though we used condoms. He even wondered why I was jumping in the shower all the time. Well, it’s because of that stupid SPATH FREAK
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
Constantine – i have done the true colours/ personality dimension tests. myers-briggs and some other test i don’t remember the name of.
i did true colours many times over a 3 yr period – always in the context of work/ career. the last time i did it, i had time to venture in to the communication style section (as I had done the work related pieces often enough to not need to bother). It was quite interesting. In general i am an ‘orange’ – the entrepreneurs. And after I started my own business that became even more pronounced.
What i found in doing the communications segment, is that i have a bit of ‘gold’ in my communication pattern, which explained a lot to me – because there is something in communication pattern that has bugged me for a long time. ‘Golds’ are almost diametrically opposed in traits and needs to ‘oranges’. Knowing this has also been a big help for me. When i run into golds i can deal with their needs as gate/ culture keepers and then there will be space for me to fly through the room. If i don’t pay attn to their needs they will think i am bringing a hail of toads down on them and the org. with my seeming ‘fly by the seat of my pants’ behaviour. this was really important info. for me in my working life.
In terms of work I am dramatically an orange – with almost no gold, and a bit blue (strongly empathic/ relationship focused ), and less green (researchers, big thinkers). I would like to do the other segments I haven’t done before (one for personal relationships).
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
EB –
your story has been sitting with me all day. it was sexual abuse, and he needed you young to manipulate you. to use you like a blow up doll. what an incredible despicable piece of shit he is. and this is how he conceived his children….
your post points out the very real need we have to protect ‘our children’ from spaths. i am sorry eb – i almost have no words for his perversity. i feel it in my gut, and i am very very sorry.
but, you will be free; and he will always be a despicable piece of shit. hopefully a dead one sooner than later. any chance you could mess up one of his drug deals and get him erased? sorry…you know where I go….
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ElizabethBennett says:
EB-it really almost sounds like rape to me. Hearing you talk about it was hard to read. He is a despicable piece of shit. I am so sorry for what you went through with that.
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ElizabethBennett says:
Darwin’smom-I was just reading something the other day about incompatibility of fluids. I have been convinced that my spath had given me something but the tests were negative. Then I read that if you don’t use condoms it gets stuck in there and causes odor-something about sperm dying and showering may not help the problem. It’s interesting how they act like odor is YOUR fault but he obviously has a part in it if he has nasty semen. Some guys have nasty semen and my spaths was vile-I know TMI.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
EB, Towanda my girl!
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ElizabethBennett says:
That’s awesome that you are getting some help EB from law enforcement. I know a lot of cops get a bad rap for being spathy, but some of them are really out for good. I hope they catch him soon.
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Hens says:
lizzy YAP tmi
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
EB – i so admire that you immediately gave the police this info. ’cause this is no light shit you are processing.
predatory
despicable
piece of shit.
and people don’t believe me when i say that if it were legal i would personally kill them. ha. he’d so be on my list.
((((((((((((i am thankful that you lived. that you got out, that you continue to free yourself from the bondage to the obscene. ))))))))))))
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
you know EB – we often don’t get into details here, and every now and then someone puts something out there that really brings it all home. so thank you.
peace out all.
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Louise says:
EB:
I want to tell you also that your story is horrid. I hate that you had to endure that and because you were so young, you really didn’t even KNOW what you were enduring. Yeah, I am with One/Joy…it’s a good thing murder isn’t legal…he would be on my list!
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Hens says:
if murder was legal i would be dead for sure..~!
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ErinBrock says:
.
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ErinBrock says:
!!!!!!
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ErinBrock says:
Who was protecting ME?
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ErinBrock says:
HOY…..If it was legal….I could name a few persons who’d be eaten dirt about now!
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ErinBrock says:
.
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Ox Drover says:
EB it is all about the “let’s pretend we are a nice normal family” routine, and if we “appear normal” to the community, then no matter what kind of perversions we have at home, ALL IS WELL.
It isn’t just a mask on a personal level, but the psychopath wants a mask on a family level, a financial level, and educational level, etc.
I can relate to WANTING to murder a few people, of feeling a rage, a wrath that was all consuming and hot as fire, but I thank God I didn’t give in to that rage, and maintain that wrath (which is cultivated anger that’s been allowed to fester and grow.)
Anger as defined by Wiki is “Anger is an automatic response to ill treatment. It is the way a person indicates he or she will not tolerate certain types of behaviour.”
It continues: “, anger can be destructive when it does not find its appropriate outlet in expression. Anger, in its strong form, impairs one’s ability to process information and to exert cognitive control over their behavior. An angry person may lose his/her objectivity, empathy, prudence or thoughtfulness and may cause harm to others.[8] There is a sharp distinction between anger and aggression (verbal or physical, direct or indirect) even though they mutually influence each other. While anger can activate aggression or increase its probability or intensity, it is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for aggression.[8]”
It’s important for us, because we do have a conscience, that we don’t let our anger, rage or wrath push us into doing murder, because we WILL have regret, unlike the psychopath. We, unlike the psychopath, cannot do murder with emotional impunity. Even if we were not to be caught and punished by the law, our own conscience would punish us.
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ErinBrock says:
.
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Constantine says:
EB,
No, your “processing” didn’t gross me out at all! In fact, it’s impressive that you could go through such horrible experiences, and still turn out so well!
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ErinBrock says:
!
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ErinBrock says:
??
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darwinsmom says:
EB,
IMO it does not just show what a perv your ex spath is, but also how weak. The easiest prey to manipulate and dominate sexually are teen girls. Feeling accepted and regarded as a grown up who can do grown up activities is first on their mind, so they are often prone to appease. Plus without sexual experience they are most likely to think someting is wrong with themselves, instead of the partner: they have no experience to compare it with to begin with.
I reckon it was rough and hard to relive it as you did yesterday, but you turned it into some productive and gained a better perspective, perhaps painful but clearer. It wasn’t you. He was the sick bastard.
I remember an Italian guy I had a crush on when I was 16. He was 21. He realized this soon and started to seduce me. What I did not truly know was that he was also fooling around with an older English girl (she must have been 20-21 or something) who followed him around like a bitch in heat. I refused to copulate, but he taught me to do a blow job. And to be honest, I hadn’t really been ready for that yet. My parents kinda knew what must have been going on, and whereas I had no nighttime to be in my tent on the campsite in Italy prior to being with him, they suddenly decided I had to be in my tent by 3am the latest. What they didn’t know was that I also snuck again, but ok. They also told me where the condoms were in the caravan and reminded me that they hoped I would choose a man who I loved and whom I felt deserved it for my first time… they reminded me that I had to feel I was ready for it. That reminder was enough for me not to allow it to go any further than it did. However, he one time had me do the blow job at 3 am near a bathroom block. If anyone had gone there in the middle night, they would have caught us. And afterwards I felt forced, manipulated and dirty.
My parents later explained me that they had seen him hang around me, as well as hang out with the other young woman, and they did not trust him. They didn’t want to take too much chances, but did not want to lock me up either. They hoped the curfew would ensure he could not just do as he pleases.
We spent a holday there the next summer. I was with y best female friend. Didn’t sleep at y parents’ caravan anymore. Our tent was at a total opposite area of the campsite. But we had to appear for breakfast and dinner each day at the caravan of my parents. So, I was 17. My best female friend was 18. The Dutch female friend of the same campsite also was there, as tent neighbour, also with a female friend of hers. And that Italian guy had his tent right underneath our camp terrace. Of course, I was the first thing he hoped to get back in his clutches. But I didn’t want to be a total fool anymore, so played more hard to get. He actually woke us up with some of his friends and got into my tent, but truly surprised i was wearing my jeans (I kinda suspected he might do such a trick). By the next night though he hit on the friend of my Dutch friend who went willingly along. And I ended up kissing a friend of his. (4 Italian boys and 4 teen girls). The boys left, but visited us again by next week. When he saw the pictures I had of him of the year before that he got all puffed about himself. Of the 4 pairs only he and the Dutch girl were a ‘couple’ again… but as they left with the promise to come and get us for a night out at a disco a few days later, he propositioned to me behind the Ditch girls’ back. I turned him down, saying that he was with a friend of mine, had made his choice, and I was not gonna stab her in the back. He then begged me not to tell her. I did tell her though as soon as he drove off in the car. He couldn’t come along to the disco, but we met the 3 other Italian boys, and ended up making 3 pairs. It turned out that I actually really liked his friend that I had kissed. He didn’t pressure me. He was into me, but at the same time allowed me to be a girl hanging out with her friends and have fun. ANd I had fun with him too.
I remember we all went to the beach together after that, and he was there as well… without the Dutch girl, and me in love with his best mate. He had absolute zilch. There is one picture that I think I will keep for the rest of my life. One of the girls took a picture of me on the beach. On the background you can see the Italian I had chosen over him, and the good Italian watching me with interest and a look of being in love. I didn’t know it at the time, but when I saw that picture after development I knew I had chosen the good guy for that holiday.
Strangely enough, whenever my mother asked me what kind of man I wanted in my life, I always replied that good Italian boy, even though I didn’t know him long. But even now, 20 years later, I’d give the same answer.
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LouiseGolem says:
Hi folks — it’s been awhile, probably close to one years, since I posted here. I’ve been working hard to get over my ex-psychopath boyfriend. I only was with him for 2 years, but he sure left an impression on me. This article describes it best — I have been diagnosed with PTSD. After seeing a domestic violence counselor, I moved on to a trauma therapist. I’m doing EMDR now. My therapist is away for two weeks, so I’m in a ‘trench’ so to speak — the memories have been coming back, but I’ve no place to put them. So I guess that’s why I”m here again.
But most significantly, I;m in a new relationship. He’s a very nice man, and I’ve been VERY happy. But the problem is: whenever I get happy, I start having panic attacks and something akin to flashbacks — I’m so afraid this man will turn on me like the last one did. (The psycho turned on me after he was certain that I was truly “in love” with him. That was when the abuse started.) Anyway, so now I’m in a happy relationship and scared it’ll turn. There is nothing to indicate this — my new boyfriend is actually very social: he has lots of friends, has a normal family (he’s a widower), people LIKE him, and everyone tells me he’s a great guy. This past week, I confessed to my new male friend why I was having panic attacks. And now I”m afraid he’s going to decide I’m too big of a risk and leave me. Well, he hasn’t indicated that, but I’m still so afraid of it.
So I thought I’d turn to my old friends at LoveFraud, and see what advice you might give — has anyone had these kinds of problems in new relationships? How can one deal with them. I really want this to work, and I think it can. The man has said he wants to to last for a long time. So do I. But I’m so afraid I’m going to mess up!
Any advice? I really do appreciate your help!
LoveFraud was the place that helped me, two years ago, identify what was happening to me, and gave me the power to pull out. I’m really happy to see you’re still helping folks –
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Alex says:
there is tons of info on ptsd there is even breathing excersises that i am currentely using, and they are helping!
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skylar says:
LouiseGolem,
I can understand the panic. It’s a known fact that those of us who have encountered a spath will encounter another one, unless we understand what our vulnerability or “hook” was.
Being able to see the red flags is the number one priority in keeping us safe. I think the second one is knowing what to do, when you realize you’ve encountered one: show no emotion. Channel a gray rock until they slither away.
If you want to, you can tell us more about your BF and maybe we can see if there are red flags that you might have missed. You have to take it from there and decide if he is worthy of you – and you of him, as well.
Alex, I’m glad you are finding relief from the physical symptoms. Those physical symptoms are a hurdle to overcome. Time brings relief as well. I think every 6 months or so, I get more strength, though I’ve had to fight for every ounce of it. It’s a Godsend.
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Alex says:
15 minutes in the morning and 15 at night, has helped me start to get some sleep
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Alex says:
skylar
the biggest red flag i missed was her past relationships, funny how they all ended the same. didnt even think about it now im like wow, had lunch with one of them last week our stories where twins.
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darwinsmom says:
Alex, yes… once you recognize the pattern, and that you and your relationship belong to the same pattern of the ex-spath, it is eye-opening. I was very grateful of learning the stories from ex-es. That’s when I realized the spaths behaviour was innate, and had nothing to do with me. Freed me from any envy over the new victim as well.
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darwinsmom says:
louisegolem…
I think your responses and triggers are pretty normal.
Even when the past relationship was with a normal, healthy individual, but didn’t work out, it is very common to start having dreams about the ex when you enter a new relationship for example. This happens even when you have completely moved on. No matter how much you work on yourself and heal by yourself, the last of the insecurities the prior relationship created within you can only be healed through experiencing reassurements in a new relationship. Most of those internal, hidden little wounds are then solved in dreaming of the ex, and often confuses the dreamer that they start to wonder whether they still have feelings for their ex-partner. Not really… it’s just healing the last that needed to be healed, and the new relationship triggers the need to heal it.
The above is for ‘normal’ past relationships. We did not just experience the loss of a relationship that was over… we experienced almost constant trauma, deception, stress, blaming and gaslighting. We were betrayed and deceived as deeply and totally as a human can be betrayed. Our trust has been massively wounded. Even when we healed very well and enjoy life again, feel we can function again and are confident… a new relationship will trigger the need to heal the last, that can only be healed through a trusting relationship, just as with a normal ex- relationship… but the triggers will be stronger, because the scar is just so much bigger.
This is one of the reasons that people need time before getting involved again. And spath victims need it even more. I know for myself I’m far from ready to willingly step into a new relationship, because I know I would be massively triggered, and I’m not ready to handle those kind of triggers on top of rebuilding my life. I had one intimate encounter since the past 7 months, and while there was nothing wrong with the guy, it was a night where I acted on hyperstress. I showered compulsively, I was grumpy to be woken up, and when something wasn’t where I thought I left it (because I had already stowed is safely away), the poor guy was almost half interrogated by me.
You know for yourself how much you healed already before having this new relationship and how strong you are now to handle the triggers. If he’s a stable, healthy individual, he’ll be able to understand and reassure you. With each reassurement, your triggers will slowly resolve themselves.
Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with you for being triggered. Just make sure that the triggers are from old wounds, and not by red flags. Don’t use the ‘its normal that I’m triggered’ to excuse red flag behaviour away.
Good luck!
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Jorja says:
Is it possible to have PTSD many years after leaving my spath?
Although I saw counsellors for 2 years after the abuse, I was never given I formal diagnosis of PTSD, yet I showed most symptoms and still do today. Counselling did not help and I saw 3 different counsellors (psychologists), the mediation they gave did not help which I did not take for very long as it seemed to increase the insomnia. I am almost scared to have a PTSD label on me and my ex find out. He will surely use this against me in Family court.
Pretty bad that I am scared to get help just because I know my spath will (as in the past) use it against me if he somehow gets his hands on this information.
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Hens says:
Jorja – I am no professional but I would say yes it is possible to have pstd years afterwards and years before, if you were among toxic people who exploited your kindness.
If you feel you have the symptom’s of pstd then you probably do – but why make this public knowledge? Most of my healing has been done without ” professional help ”..peace
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