When women are sociopaths/psychopaths
Nearly all of the research into sociopathy has involved evaluating the personality traits of adult men in prison. The reason for this is that researchers have easy access to adult prisoners and more prisoners are male. Think about it—how else would a researcher find sociopaths to study? The problem with studying sociopathy in male prisoners is that we learn nothing about sociopaths who never get arrested. We also don’t know if the research results apply to women.
There is actually very little research data available regarding sociopathy in non-criminals and in women. The little research that has been done reveals that sociopathy in women entails two or three main features that are similar to those found in men. Namely, female sociopaths lack empathy and enjoy manipulating and exploiting others. Violent and impulsive behavior is less common in sociopathic women. This fact may make them more dangerous, as they more easily blend in with the rest of society.
The key traits of sociopathic females
A recent study of adolescent girls in detention performed by Crystal L. Schrum, M.A. and Randall T. Salekin, Ph.D. of the University of Alabama and reported in Behavioral Sciences and the Law, revealed the core qualities that best described young female sociopaths. The teens were callous and lacked empathy, had a grandiose sense of self worth and were conning and manipulative. They were also likely to engage in impersonal sexual relationships. Importantly, the researchers revealed that female sociopaths did not necessarily have “shallow emotions.” Again the lack of impulsivity and shallow emotions may make a female sociopath more difficult to spot.
Please read the true Lovefraud story of Michelle Drake. Notice that female sociopaths victimize other women as well as men. This vignette illustrates many of the core qualities of a female sociopath. As I read this case, I was painfully reminded of the male sociopath who was once part of my life; so perhaps the similarities between male and female sociopaths are more important than the differences. What struck me about the story is the elaborate con she perpetrated for really very little money. This case illustrates something truly amazing about sociopaths—the degree to which they derive pleasure from conning others. Their hoaxes are often outlandish and grandiose.
A friend of mine, who was once in law enforcement, says that conning is the sociopath’s profession and that that he/she may not even do it for the money. Conning is instead the work they have a passion for. As my friend says, “When a sociopath wakes up and opens his eyes in the morning, it’s show time!” I can envision Michelle saying that to herself as she donned the fake pregnancy costume.
The public and the courts are sympathetic toward female sociopaths
The case of Michelle Drake also illustrates something else about female sociopaths. The courts are more likely to go easy on them. This attitude of the courts may reflect the fact that many people excuse the behavior of female sociopaths and feel sorry for them. Look at the cases of women in the news lately. We don’t know if the women involved are sociopaths, however, these cases do illustrate the double standard that exists in how we judge female as opposed to male antisocial behavior. Several women teachers have been found guilty of sexually exploiting students. They were treated very leniently for the same crimes that would have put a man in jail for many years.
The NASA astronaut arrested for attempted murder is another example of the way people treat women differently and don’t take their crimes seriously. This week, a restaurant owner in Florida held a benefit night to raise money for the astronaut’s family. News commentators have been quick to voice sympathy for the astronaut, yet I have not heard a one express sympathy for the victim. I remind you that it is alleged that the astronaut sprayed her victim with mace and planned to kill her.
In conclusion, sociopathy is less common in women. Women who are sociopaths may not appear as shallow as men who are sociopaths. They are also less angry and impulsive compared to men. Although violence is less commonly perpetrated by women, if you are the victim, these statistics don’t matter.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
modelman360 says:
i was married to a female sociopath for almost 18 yrs. the things we found out about her and her double life! the saying love is blind is true. she showed no feelings even while watching a tear jerker of a movie. in a 7 hr trial over custody, she was made to read outloud a 3 page love letter she wrote to one of her boyfriends 22 yrs younger than her!, showed no feelings or emotions! my oldest son testified against her, it seems the only way to hurt a sociopath is through money. i feel so bad for my sons, they lived all this and they didn’t deserve it! i had to put a restraining order on her when she attacked me in front of my sons. my oldest said to me later, dad i don’t know how you didn’t just beat the hell out of her!……..i said i can’t raise you from a jail cell can i?……..i feel like the whole thing was like a damn soap opera!.when i got custody and she had to pay me child support, she lost it, she destroyed my motorcycle with a hammer and threw paint all over my javelin……….i didn’t care all i wanted was my sons………she is with a ex con now who is 13 yrs younger than her, and i thank god every day we are away from her!…………..the sociopath will lie to your face without blinking an eye!……….it is scary as hell! there has to be something missing in the genes or something. it’s been almost 10 yrs since all that happened, and sometimes the pain comes back when you try to understand it all, but these people will destroy themselves, my sons want nothing to do with her at all and haven’t seen her in almost ten yrs she has missed out on so much and doesn’t even know she will be a grandmother!, in a way you have to feel sorry for her……………………..not! even these people have a choice, they are adults not little kids if anyone has ever gone through this and would like to talk my e mail is modelman360@yahoo.com……thanks
Wednesday, 21 February 2007 @ 8:37am
why-cant-they-see? says:
All Names are Pseudonyms.
In 2001 my ex-sociopath shot a 20YO man named “Dale Woods” nine times including three times in the back of the head while he lay face down on the floor, she claimed it was self defense despite her weight of 180lbs and his of 140 and no weapons.
In 2004 after my ex-wife (my family calls her “T-Rex”) began another affair I took her back four times; she arranged for strong sedatives to be prescribed for me and they disappeared. She tried to kill me at least two times while drugged. I taped one episode when I knew weird stuff was happening (90 hour digital recorder). I have been paid criminal compensation by the state for one attempt, but she has never been charged for any of the 290 documented crimes against me since separation. It is as if law enforcement just wants us all to go away. (Small county of about 20-30,000)
I first met Dale’s mother Misty in 1999 to discuss the purchase of the home belonging to the estate of her late in-laws. The home was next door to our Victorian home in a rural Iowa town which was one of two relatively large homes in the town. T-Rex and I had decided to commit a substantial amount to renovating our home but were concerned about the state of the abandoned house next door. It was a wreck; unoccupied for years and in need of a new roof, paint, windows, doors or maybe a bulldozer. The “street appeal” differences between the grand Victorian and the hodge-podge Iowa cottage could not have been wider.
We were told by Martha Higgles that the home was owned by a Hospital because the Woods’s were unable to pay the medical bills for the deceased parents. Martha introduced herself to us within days of us moving to Pleasantville and seemed to know everything about everyone and demonstrated little restraint in making her knowledge known. Martha is such a significant character in this tale that she has earned at least one chapter to herself. Martha’s rumor was the first of many rumors that proved false in this bored little town. I am sure that my family’s debut into Pleasantville society has fueled the town’s propensity and love for rumors for many years to come. This is of course “generally speaking”; which is something I usually avoid doing at all costs; my sincere desire at this time is to emphasize that there are some wonderful people in the little town of Pleasantville. However, the emotions felt when recalling the words and actions of the shameless minority that I encountered during my brief time as a resident tends to overwhelm the impact of the noble and discreet majority.
Misty did an exceptional job in clearing up the liens on the old Woods family home and we were able to purchase it for just a few thousand dollars. We then invested tens of thousands more renovating the home in order to convert it into an office for my then growing business.
In Late1999 Misty was sitting in our living room with T-Rex and me. We were discussing the progress of the house sale. We somehow got onto the topic of her husband Bob and his problems with Alcoholism and his relationship with his children. It was what many would consider “too much information” but I tend to have that effect on people, probably because I am guilty of the same thing. Being and open book can be a good thing sometimes but it can be taken too far. As an evangelical Christian I turned the conversation to issues of the heart and the only place I knew that a remedy could be found for the burdens Misty described. Misty was initially hesitant to take this turn, but with gentle persuasion she participated in the conversation with cautious enthusiasm. Over the next hour or two I had described my “testimony” with respect to the wonderful things God had done in my life and the “hope that is within me”. I asked Misty if she thought I believed what I was saying or if I was mad, she indicated that she didn’t think I was mad so I then invited Misty to take a blind step of faith to God’s open invitation to the world to join him on His terms in a love relationship. Misty accepted, I explained to her the prayer that I prayed when I first truly believe on the Lord as well as the sacrifices required to follow Him. Namely the very real possibility that she would be labeled and a nut-case by family, neighbors and others that have not tasted or comprehended God’s amazing love. I told her it would be like trying to make them understand how a strange and exotic fruit tastes that they had never seen, smelled or touched. Misty accepted the challenge with apparent enthusiasm and we prayed together. Misty was beaming and had happy teary eyes. No sooner than Misty’s exit and T-Rex poured water on the happy time by bluntly announcing “you know she only did it to get close to you don’t ya?” I responded “I’ll take Misty’s prayer at face value until her fruit proves otherwise”; I was referring to the fruit produced by her “new life in Christ” which is the only way scripture gives us with which to determine the authenticity of another’s faith.
Within a few days Misty asked if I would help her with her troubled son Dale who was then 18 or 19. She went into great detail about his addiction to computer games and his lack of friends from an early age. With a heavy heart she recounted how even family would react when she and her children would arrive at a gathering. Apparently at the sight of Dale there would be eyes rolled and backs turned. Misty described Dale’s relationship with his father Bob as almost non-existent due to his drinking problems and because Bob had effectively given up on Dale. I have heard some conflicting accounts to this subsequent to Bob’s tragic suicide at Dale’s grave a year after T-Rex killed him, but it may have been in response to the pity felt for the broken man as opposed to having any basis in fact. For the record, I NEVER observed Bob and Dale together, so I have no direct knowledge on the subject, however, a close friend that had a very emotional run-in with the grieving father shortly before his suicide has convinced me that Bob truly loved his son.
Misty asked if I would be willing to spend some time with Dale and to tell him about the same good news that I had shared with her. We brain stormed a few ideas and she asked if I would teach him about gun safety and target shooing; a sport in which I was seriously involved at the time. I had just bought a new target rifle which needed to be “broken-in” so I agreed to take Dale with me. Misty said Dale had been involved with some National Guard youth program and enjoyed the program. I warned her that it may be a little boring because the break-in process takes considerable time in that one bullet is fired and then the barrel has to be thoroughly cleaned before the next shot and the process repeated.
Misty brought Dale to my home a day or two later for introductions, it was either the following weekend or possibly one day after work that I packed up the shooting gear and picked up Dale. During the twenty minute drive to the rifle range I engaged Dale with topics such as “what do you want to do with your life?” Dale’s response to this question had me laughing until I realized he was serious and a little annoyed by me response. The reason I laughed was because Dale said he was going to invent a “time machine”. Not knowing the best way to react I humored him and asked what qualifications he had in quantum physics. Dale then began a detailed explanation of how the machine would work. I recognized some of the dialog as having been sampled from various episodes of Stargate, Star Trek and maybe the BBC’s vintage “Dr. Who”.
After listening to Dale’s theories and explanation, and having recently noticed his annoyance at my initial rejection (or scoffing as he may have perceived my laughter) I decided that rather than rejecting his ideas out of hand I would approach the concept of career alternatives by asking about his “back-up plans” should there be a bug in his worm-hole theories…. there was none, not even to join the Army which tends to be the universal back-up plan anywhere in the world for young men without specific ambition. I should add that I consider a military career to be a noble choice and that many young men deliberately choose and purpose to be professional warriors.
At this point Dale began asking questions about my business, once I had given him an overview he began expounding on his considerable computer talents, it was painfully and uncomfortably obvious that he was pitching himself as a potential employee. Dale’s fear of rejection coupled with his suffocating arrogance and unwillingness to consider the counsel of others if it any way conflicted with his ideas was becoming very apparent. Later that day after privately recounting the experience, I determined that this arrogance may have been a defensive mechanism or “wall” built to shield him from rejection, ridicule and disappointment which was by all accounts the story of his life.
Dale and I spent two or three hours at the rifle range where I gave him basic safety instruction and explained ballistic trajectory as it relates to wind, humidity, distance and velocity. Dale “seemed” to know everything so the conversation was scaled back to small talk.
In the following months I tried to include Dale in a few activities, his mother and sisters accompanied him to a church service once and he also came to a presentation on “creation science” at a local church. On the way home he questioned the logic of my faith and we had a very in-depth discussion on the logic and science that backs up biblical Christianity. The conversation continued for almost 50 minutes in my SUV with the engine running in his parent’s driveway that snowy night. In that time I laid out for him the same good news that I shared with his Mother some months prior.
There was a terrific group of young men from a local church that played paintball regularly. I explained Dale’s situation to them and my commitment to mentoring him and they agreed to let him participate. I was excited about Dale experiencing unconditional acceptance by local guys of similar age, none of whom had met him previously. Dale only played twice, maybe three times; unfortunately he wore out his welcome because he would not retire from the field when tagged (hit), he would continue to shoot paint balls at the other team despite numerous and painful tags to himself. On the last time he played Dale stole paintballs from two young men and a small piece of equipment from me. On the way home I explained that I had a very busy life and could not justify investing any more into our relationship under the current circumstances. I told him that he should take a few months to think about the friendship I offered and to let me know if he felt it was something he wanted to salvage. In the last conversation we had I asked him if he had given any more thought to God’s invitation to join Him in a personal love relationship. Dale’s response was simply “well I’m not stupid”. I do not know exactly what Dale meant, but by the tone used I sincerely believe that Dale was trying to tell me that he couldn’t argue with the argument for Christianity. What he did as a result of this conclusion God only knows. I said “does this mean you have made a decision for Christ?”, he gave a non-committal response. At that point I asked “are you familiar with the account of the thief on the cross besides Jesus at the crucifixion?” He was. I told him that this is an amazing example of God’s mercy and love in that a criminal, a thief and maybe even a murderer who lived a selfish and probably violent life, in his very last words acknowledged Christ as Lord, and as a result gained eternal life. I told Dale that after noon “It is my prayer that if you don’t make a decision about God before your time comes that the Lord will have mercy on you when you die. Whether it is tomorrow or in sixty years, I hope that you will know that you are going to die and that you will have enough time to remember the thief on the cross, and that at that time you will call out to Jesus and that as a result I will see you in Heaven. Who knows, maybe you’ll be hit by a bus and you’ll have five or ten minutes to consider your fate”.
Those were the very last words I had with Dale Woods; the irony is that according to the autopsy, the crime scene and T-Rex’s account of the shooting, he did have at least a few minutes before dying. Dale was shot six times in the torso by a 40 caliber Beretta pistol; he then lay broken, bleeding and probably paralyzed on my bedroom floor for several minutes. If he was conscious, which T-Rex claims he was, he was laying on his left side slightly facing the ground.
T-Rex claimed he was on his back trying to get up into a kind of fetal position which was her justification for shooting him in the head. However, crime scene photos and autopsy may suggest an execution style shooting in the back of the head. Copies of the autopsy and these horrific images are available. He probably paralyzed by the first 6 hollow point 40 caliber rounds
T-Rex had already left the room after shooting him the first six times, some time later he would have heard T-Rex walk up from behind him, he was facing away from his killer as she approached, he was powerless to do anything, he heard her stop and then he was shot twice in the back of the head with the 40 caliber Beretta and then once more by a .357 magnum revolver, also in the back of the head. According to T-Rex the first of these head wounds was a warning and that she aimed away from him.
The crime scene was horrific, the town clerk and her husband graciously volunteered to clean up the mess after the forensics team finished. They were just finishing when I was allowed to return to the home (I had been out of town for 2 days). There was blood, bone and brain matter everywhere, it was on the floor, on the walls and even splatter on the light fittings. The smell was like butcher shop, it was overwhelming. I am very thankful to Mr. & Mrs. Town Clerk, and sorry that they had to experience that task
T-Rex was never charged, she is still free and after this homicide and three subsequent attempted murders and other crimes too numerous to mention. She is living at the time of this writing as primary care giver to our two children My Son 8 and My Princess 6 while I am living in Europe in fear for my life from her and those acting on her behalf.
Subsequent evidence revealed 3 or 4 separate $1Million Life policies on me without my knowledge. The theory of the crime is that T-Rex asked dale to kill me when I was to arrive home at about midnight from the business trip; he refused and she killed him to cover up the crime.
She has managed to have me arrested twice, one night in jail and convinced the judge in our divorce case that I should not be permitted to have a firearm for self defense in my home, her dad is a dirty ex-cop with about 150 guns hidden in the walls of the house where T-Rex lives with him and my two beautiful kids. All charges against me were unfounded, but hey, the men are guilty till proven innocent in these matters right?
I am seeking expert witnesses to help in a modification of child custody:
Psychiatrists with expertise in female sociopaths
Psychologists with experience in parental alienation syndrome
An Excellent attorney offering pro bono or an extremely deferred payment plan
(I am now effectively bankrupt)
Dr Leedom & Donna both know who I am, so if anyone can help, please let them know.
Sincerely
M
Wednesday, 21 February 2007 @ 9:43am
pixelphoto says:
This sounds so much like my ex wife and her two younger daughters its not even funny. Now in their teens they have learned from the best con their own mother. It took me only 7 months married to her to figure out she wasn’t the person I married. After the divorce she trashed the house, and left me with 25,000 dollars in credit card bills I didnt even know I had. She had gotten cards in my name as the main person and her as the co person which left me with all the bills. I didn’t even know about them until I got a call one day asking when I was going to pay my bill I asked what bill? They said you are overdue our collection agency has been trying to reach you. I told them to send me the bill at my parents address and immediately did a credit report on myself. I had several credit cards I hadn’t ever seen or signed up for before. So not only did she do over 17,000 dollars worth of damage to the house after I got her evicted (holes in the walls, writing on walls, cut wires in walls, etcetc trash everywhere door jams busted locks changed etc) She also took all the appliances which were to be left with the home as it was my mothers home which we lived in rent free. All in all we figure over 65,000 dollars between repairs replacing things she stole and credit card debt and more. The problem is shes very smart and very sneaky she opened up a post office box in my name and had bills forwarded there. She stole my mothers credit card number and ordered things with my email address which were tracked back to her computer and I.P. address by the local sherriffs department.
The problem is she hasn’t been charged with anything. Shes so smug and defiant she believes she can do whatever she wants and will get away with it. Unfortunately she may be right. When she stole all the items out of the house she took my file cabinet as well which had all the paperwork for all the appliances and more with all the serial numbers and receipts in them. The cops told me well no serial numbers we cant help you. So shes gotten away with that.
She also filed false injury reports at several places shes worked to get workmans comp checks I know one place she got over 25,000 and another a little less and just did one other place here recently so 3 places in all for the same injury. Also she was fired from one for “defrauding a retail store” in the cost of over 5,000. thn went to work at her next place and 2,500 came up missing and reported stolen as it didnt show up in the drop box for th nightly deposit. She was the manager on duty and was the one to take the drop.
Somehow none of the places do background checks or check references and no one sues her or pursues jail time against her some how.She has gotten away with so much for so long no one can stop her.
She has been evicted multiple times and has done damage to every house she has lived in. One was burnt to the ground. Stolen items were found in all the yards reported by other people who lost items in the neighborhood. After they moved out peope found what was left of their items in her yard. No convictions there either.
The good news it may have caught up with her. Now if they only fine her with something. She is in a local jail on multiple charges. One is unpaid rent from the last guy she lived at s house. And not sure of the other charges. Her daughters have been caught by YDC and family services failed drug test and had them visit the house in 4 different counties she has lived in. I’m sure the girls have wrap sheets a mile long. One was arrested for stealing a lawnmower and that was recovered. But being minors all their records are sealed so once they grow over 18 no one will know what they have done in the past.
Amazing.
I just want there to be a paper trail for others to see what all she has done and continues to do but somehow she sweet talks her way out of things and no judge takes it seriously enough.
I have had to take a restraing order out against her and her kids and I know they have broken a restraining order once before in florida because that is on her record down there. I have also had to file 4 contempt of courts and one no show.
I cant believe how ballsy this woman is.
I will stop ranting now I need a break but I hope others see that there are these fake caring loving so sweet and innocent Ive had a hard life story kind of people who then take advantage of you and take you for everything that they can.
Wednesday, 21 February 2007 @ 5:41pm
sunrising says:
Reading these histories is frightening! But it is true that there are female sociopaths, they are more subtle than their male counterparts, and the legal system protects them.
My fiance is trying to finalize his divorce now from a woman who I believe is a sociopath. They were married in 1979 and separated three times during the course of the marriage. They separated in 1998 and have not lived together since that time. He took her name off everything — bank accounts, credit cards, etc. He has filed his taxes separartely since 1999. He bought a house in 1999 where she has never lived. However, their two sons came to live with him there and they still are living there today.
However, last week in one of their useless court appearances she claims that he has been supporting her for all these years, that she is very depressed and can’t work because he promised he would nnever divorce her and would always take care of her; she claims they have a “father-daughter” relationship although she is only three years younger then he is (and she is no Anna Nicole Smith!). She has also been living with her boyfriend since 1999!
She claims that she lives on less than $20,000 a year but her expenses are $75,000! And her bills are all up to date because “friends help her.” By the way, she holds TWO mortgages in her name and both mortgages are paid up to date. However, the woman has not filed an income tax return since 1999. She collected HUD money for Section 8 apartments she was renting out in two houses that she owned — one house she and her lover had their names on, the other house she put in the two sons’ names.
There is much, much more — businesses she has started during the past three years that she put in the older son’s name. The older son, now almost 27 years old, has never held a job in his life. He has only “worked” with his mother doing real estate schemes, etc. We have eveidence of them filing fraudulent loan applications, etc.
This woman’s divorce lawyer says her client needs therapy becauyse she is so distruaght over her husband seeking a divorce and her helplessness.
There is so much more but the bottom line is that the judge’s law clerk is very sympathetic to this woman. And the older son is has been totally brainwashed by her. He accuses his father of “destroying hte family” even though his father had custody of the two boys and has been supporting them all this time. In fact up until two months ago, we were paying the mortgages on both hte house where we currently reside and the house where his sons reside. Two months ago, he asked his sons to pay rent. They both work — one in law enforcement and the other with his mother. The older son and the mother are running their business out of my fiance’s house!
The real devastation is that this woman will destroy the relationship he has with his sons. She is trying to destroy him by refusing to come to any sort of settlement agreement in the divorce case, forcing him to now commit to a lengthy and expensive trial. She is angry that he wants to marry me because I will get “get all the benefits she is entitled to and steal their sons’ inheritance.” I guess she thinks everyone thinks and acts like she does — despicably.
There is no honor, no ethics or morals between this woman, her lover and the oldest son. Sometimes my fiance fears for his very life because now he just doesn’t know the full extent of what she is truly capable of doing. The older son threatened his father if he insists on going to trial thereby causing all of their financial records, etc. to be subpoenaed.
I pray every day for a resolution to this so that we can just move on and focus on creating our lives together. I pray for a good relationship with his sons but sometimes it is very hard!
Tuesday, 27 February 2007 @ 8:07am
glummerman says:
Althought I am not willing to use the lables “sociopath” or “psychopath”, I think my ex wife is a just an old fashioned “She Devil”. She turned out to be the most domineering, deceptive, abusive and manipulative person I ever met. Let me provide examples to illustrate, in case you’re doing what even I would do if I read a man writing something like that (doubting him). It might help some other poor sap out there trying to wrap his mind around the living hell a she devil has placed him in.
I really don’t know what she was in terms of lables, and don’t know if it matters. She constantly lied, manipulated, mislead, withheld information, got drunk regularly to “decompress”, acted absurdly jealous, and talked down to me every day in a way that reminded me of one of my frat brothers joking around and trying to “punk me”. At first, I laughed it all off.
Nevertheless, I was the greatest fool. The first red flag I chose to ignore came when she spit on the guy parking the cars on our first date when we first me. It was so far out, I thought it was amusing. Looking back, I see how stupid this is. Next, she told me in seriousness that she would shoot her step father dead if she saw him again. I laughed and jokingly offered to help, thinking she had to be joking about some really powerful feelings she was trying to get over. So I can’t say she didn’t come with a warning lable. Nevertheless, I married her, because I though she was unique, funny, smart, beautiful and basically a good person (yes, I can be very stupid sometimes).
Soon after we married, the hell began. She accused me of working her like a slave, and called the police on me as a reflex at least 10 times over 2 years, lying right to their faces in order to punish me. I stood by the truth, and was never really hurt too badly, but it was always gut wrenching when police took my liar’s word a face value time and again, in spite of her pattern of deception. However, let me say that I was once nearly killed, was falsely arrested and jailed, was professionally investigated the entire time, was robbed of thousands by check fraud and credit card fraud, was falsely detained based on her report that I was carrying drugs interstate, and was humiliated in front of friends and family, and was many more things that would have made the TV news if it were the other way around. It seems the system counts on that (men not making too much of the harm they suffer vs. protecting woman from the well known and broadly publicised danger of wife beating, which was made so in wake of OJ. They call it the “OJ effect” as one policeman put it). I like to call it “superbowl sunday syndrome”, because of the national PR about all the wife beating that takes place when losing team fans take out frustrations on their wives.
On the other hand, there is my reality. My wife once ran me over with her car. After getting out of the ER, where the doctor told me I was nearly killed (the massive trauma was close to the liver), I reported it, and the police did nothing, telling me it was a “he said, she said” situation, even though I had emergency room documentation. Police just told me over and over to leave, stay away and get a lawyer. When wifezilla was questioned, she just walked out of the police state “to feed the meter”, and bragged to me about never going back. She is a licensed private detective, and the most unethical professional person I’ve ever seen in action.
When we went for therapy the first time and the therapist was no good because she read the definition of love from the bible to us. At that point, I didn’t know she needed thousand of dollars in fertility treatments for us to have a chance at having a baby, time was running out, and it was all my fault from her point of view.
The second therapy we went for was worse, as I found out she could not have children, was blaming me for it, and was demanding we adopt ASAP, even though we were broke. With the second psychologist, I found that she was calling him each week privately to voice her problems with me, trying to get me to go for private sessions. I found out later she was lying to him about me when the truth about us came out in due course. Soon thereafter, this second therapist’s work came to an end when she got the answer to the question she ask him: “is a person who has had several love relationships harder to treat, or is a person who has never been in love, or had few (by the age of 40)?” He told her a person who has lived without loving anyone was harder to treat, and she quit because that was her. She thought she had proof that our problems where really just mine because I had several relationships in 20 years, where feelings of love existed. She thought she would establish that I was at fault in some way more than she. But she was shocked when the psychologist told her it was harder to treat someone who did not really feel love toward anyone for 20 years (since childhood). On the ride home, she just smoked hard, pulling all the smoke she could, and saying “huh” (as in suprise) all the way home for 20 minutes.
When the next therapist asked her if she was molested, she said she was (which she never admitted to me until then), until a week later when she told me she was just lying to the doctor about being molested. She’d done that before, when she told me that she tried to commit suicide when she was 15, then told me months later that this was a lie. She never could answer why she’d lie when asked. She did it again when she told me her best friend proposed to her after we were engadged, but with a special plan. He said he would marry her “when our marrage did not work out”. There again, months later, she said it was a lie too. So it was month after she told me all her male friends ask her to have sex when she told them she was getting married.
When I left, she trumped up an affair to push her agenda, which is still ongoing. While she admits to “never trusting” me, she calls herself “a pioneer” for marrying me (whatever that means). Every time she got angry with me, she’d post a personal ad online, with a false age and marital status. She told me it was a way of “releasing”. She has trouble with booze too. There are just too many instances of fraud and lying to recount. Whether it’s to “protect herself”, or some chemical thing does not make a bit if difference to anyone who’se living the nightmare.
So is there a bias? It does not matter brother, if you are dealing with a she devil like mine. You just better listen to people around you and run like hell, no matter what you heart or chemicals, are telling you, because you can bet the only thing her heart is telling her is to pick your bones Jim. It’s reptile or insect politics, and you are just dead meat; your fear, obligation or guilt are just wasted energy when you are outrunning at crocodile.
Sunday, 23 December 2007 @ 11:53pm
lostmother says:
Anyone any comments on coping with an adult daughter?
Mine fell back into our home 3 months ago, having been evicted after promising to sort out rent for a year (even back then both her father and I refused to be guarantor - we already knew in our bones, but had nothing enough concrete), with an astronomical amount of debt that she just doesn’t care about, and has fleeced EVERYONE close to her, including her little 15 year old sister.
Every day has been a shocking disaster, with promises and appointments broken, our home swamped with rubbish (possessions) that’s never sorted out.
I’ve busted myself trying to get some order and routine going, and to get her to get a job, but again she’s slipped the net, and is moving onto the boyfriend’s house, having convinced them what an unreasonable mum I am.
Every tomorrow she’s going to pick up her stuff, but no phone call, no appearance. If I cave and call her, I can already hear the tears, and the relentless patter of lies and excuses………..
The list goes on and on - the night she landed, she smashed up the car we’d given her only 3 months earlier, and that was the 3rd we were silly enough to give her. At least we refused to sort that one out.
I just twigged what was happening 3 days ago, and since finding these websites ( thank you google for making information accessible), it’s finally for the first time since she was 13 starting to make sense.
Any odd expressions I use, you’re reading English from New Zealand, last stop befor Antarctica!
I’ve also lived through her accusing her stepfather and a previous boyfriend of molesting her, and she’s been stalked, molested and raped by so many men over the years!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Saturday, 19 January 2008 @ 8:15pm
change06 says:
Lostmother- So glad you found this site. You recognizing the situation is first step. And keeping close to the blogs here will help. I suggest a good counselor, one who understands the dynamics of a sociopath personality and the persons close to them. One plus you have is that you are aware and can educate yourself not to be a victim and fall into the manipulation and conning trap. I am not in your particular situation, yet understand it must be devastating being that it is your own flesh and blood. You not buying into the lies and excuses will not make you much of a candidate for the role she needs you to play. Therefore, she will move onto someone/s that will be part of the game. Hang in there, be strong, keep reading and get help if you can.
Sunday, 20 January 2008 @ 12:42pm
relly59 says:
Finding this site was a blessing. I am frightened for my female friend as I believe her mother is a psychopath and may actually carry out her threat to kill her. The mother has assaulted her and had the police arrest my friend for the assault, hopefully we will be able to expose what she really is in Court next month!! My friend is the product of her mothers’ first marriage and mum detests her with a passion as she reminds mum of her first husband and cannot stand the sight of her or any successes she has, she wants to destroy her any way she can. MUm is also extremely manipulative and convincing, conning the authorities to permit her to take care of her grandmothers financial affairs. (there are 4 generations in this family) I also believe mum is after her own parents estate as she was taking all the right steps to get control. I have stepped in and removed some of those to protect the grandparents of my friend at this stage, and I hope it’s enough. Mum has also got two other daughters who are just like her - frightening - and they all know how to ‘play the system’ to their advantage. I’ve never seen anything like this before, how unbelievably good they are at acting - they deserve an Academy Award for their performances, yet people fall for their lies even despite ‘Evidence’ to the contrary. To say this is scary as well as frustrating is an understatement. My friend is terrified her mother will kill her, and /or her grandparents for their assests and / or set her up for their deaths, and I have seen enough to be totally convinced and extremely concerned, but don’t know enough about what to do to help protect them from mum at this stage, but I’m learning, I just hope fast enough. The lawyer we have spoken to said mum fits the classic definition of a female psychopath, so we’re hoping he will have enough skill to expose her lies and manipulations in Court.
Fingers crossed. Any advice from others who relate to this?
Monday, 9 June 2008 @ 5:32am
OxDrover says:
Somehow I missed this thread until Relly brought it up to the recent comments list—unfortunately, most of these stories describe my P-son’s “behavior” and his “wild A$$ plots”—-plots that would sound like a bad novel no matter how true they are.
These stories of female cons and psychopaths are truly scary. They seem so much more filled with RAGE than the average male Psychopath—a sneaky rage that seethes and festers. Of course this may just be because so many of the female Ps actually go undetected and only the really blatant ones get reported in the news. If we only judged psychopaths by the “serial killers” maybe we would get the same picture of most male psychopaths as we seem only to get the media notice of the really outrageous females.
The female prison population IS rising faster than the male prison population, so maybe they are being prossecuted more, but certainally not enough, and not harsly enough. My X-DIL-P got only 5 yrs probation and a felony conviction, while the Trojan Horse-P, her BF got 3 yrs for one crime, with a long list of previous crimes (all felonies, including child molestation X3)
Apparently she has moved on to her next male victim (probably met on the internet) since I was successful in making sure her BOy Friend did NOT get out on parole quickly after she got out of jail, and owuld be in there at least another two years, and she wasn’t about to wait for him to get out and support herself in the meantime. She seems to have an aversion to working at a job to earn money for her own support. She seems to think that it is easier to steal from old ladies who trust her.
I am just grateful to God that this woman is out of my son’s life and that he is OUT OF THE FOG of trying to make that “marriage work.” Without her actually trying to kill him, I’m not sure he would have ever given up and divorced her, so it is an “ill wind that blows no one good.” This ILL WIND did in the end, blow a LOT of GOOD—she is out of our family. My son sees the truth. Praise God from whom all blessings flow, and her exposure was a BLESSING I am SO grateful for!
Monday, 9 June 2008 @ 8:39am
Wini says:
You don’t know where to find female sociopaths. My God, I worked with them for years. Really look in any office in the country, they are there behind the powers of any company USA. Destructive, totally destructive. They come off like they are sweet angels, when in reality, they know exactly what they are doing. Playing everyone for every thing they can get. And yes, they play the system for everything it is worth and hide behind their female helpless role, poor little me baloney. They are usually the presidents’ secretary or administrative assistant or right hand person of whatever title. They ensure they get the ear of the boss and fill the poor man’s/woman’s head with their nonsense. Ruthless, nonsense that has destroyed more careers than I care to think about today, including mine. Oh, and they tell you how they went to church on Sunday. Give me a break here with all these self serving creatures slithering on our earth. These women ensure they sleep with more than their share of executives in the company … ensuring there is a circle of the elite in the center of things running everything. Open your eyes as to what and how they take over a company. You can read all the by laws of the company and all the equal rights and opportunities, all their laws and all the fairness of employees rights etc. and they (the inner circle) will ensure you are done under any time you figure them out or your qualifications are a threat. You are up against a wall of them … all former and current lovers, doing you under. I know in my heart of hearts that none of these creatures ever read the Bible, but they’ll quote a few memorized scriptures just to throw you off. It comes down to people in positions of authority in this country, from politics, to the courts, to law enforcement to teachers, to clergy, we’ve got to insist people are well versed in reading our Bible and stop passing these airheads threw the system and allowing them to get into positions of power that affect us all. Anyone, and I mean anyone should be grilled incessantly of what their knowledge is of God’s word. Period. Our country was built on the word of God, did we all forget this? It’s time for all of us to stop being lazy and read our Bibles, ensure our politicians read their Bibles, ensure all our officials sitting in positions of authority read the Bible, not just attend church which is community, but to actually pick up the world of God and read it to obtain and learn wisdom. If anyone gets just one passage wrong, give them a make up exam … let them go back and read that scripture until they get the answer correctly. Now this is an easy way to ensure the right person is sitting in a position of authority. Reading, studying, knowing the word of God.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 5:06am
Free says:
I have worked with female sociopaths in the office. My sister is a sociopath as well. Absolutely no conscience. Doesn’t matter whether you are male or female. No conscience is no conscience, it doesn’t discern gender.
My mother is a daughter of a sociopath and although she is not one herself, she grew up disordered so that she was abusive. Emotionally and physically. My mother even through all this abuse DOES have a conscience, of which I now recognise and she suffered from No Contact from me for five years and hasn’t been abusive since I initiated contact last year. Even though she was abusive, she was unmothered and I honour her today.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:00am
patriotdad says:
I take exception to your ending statement of this article.
“In conclusion, sociopathy is less common in women. Women who are sociopaths may not appear as shallow as men who are sociopaths. They are also less angry and impulsive compared to men. Although violence is less commonly perpetrated by women, if you are the victim, these statistics don’t matter.”
It is this myth that helps many female sociopaths to continue to prey on the public at large. This myth has been busted regularly but lives on with a life of its own.
An extensive scholarly summary of research on this article can be found at http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
This is just one of several summaries which can direct to the actual studies. These are all peer reviewed and critiqued.
Also, the U.S. Dept of H&HS maintains a site with DV statistics and their data shows a much greater balance of DV and when the numbers include children who are DV victims, the figures on who perpetrates the majority of all DV becomes very difficult for some to comprehend in this period of time where the media and certain political ideologies maintain an anti-male witchhunt that makes Salem appear pale and un-inspired.
Violence is a human condition and for now we are finding it in all men where it exists in a minority, but excusing it for nearly all women. The first step to controlling DV is to level out the investigatory, prosecutorial, judicial, and sentencing guidelines to a gender neutral standard. As it is half of our society, women are immune except in the most extreme and even then as with the Tennessee Preachers wife and her shotgun, the penalties are shamefully lacking. This does nothing but perpetrate and actually multiply the incidences of children of both genders who grow up to be abusers. Giving a sociopath custody of children is not a very bright social policy. But we do it with socio/psychopathic women every day, all day in our family courts. As a matter of fact the more disturbed and willing to scream obscenities and make outrageous and improbable false allegations a woman is the more likely to obtain custody of children, property, and future income from some innocent man. I have seen one socio/psychopathic man win custody, property and income using this tactic and an attorney known for being sadistic in professional circles.
These myths hurt our society beyond measure as well as destroy individuals. I hope you research this further before making such claims about DV. This myth was originally perpetrated upon the media and Congress for the politcal advancement of certain supporters of an extreme misogynistic feminist movement. It was a mega-example of the method that works in court, scream obscenities and make improbable false allegations at the top of your voice long enough and someone begins to believe.
My ex and the mother of my daughter is a sociopath with psychotic episodes. I have spent 14 years of constant court activity just to protect my child from some of the more extreme abuses. My ex has been kept as sole managing conservator in spite of her open court admissions of felonies involving our child and the conviction of one of her family members for abusing our child and others. My chilid after 14 years of this, at the age of 16, thinks that her life is normal. She once told me that the individuals her mother openly admits to being child abusers in her family are “OK, and just people being people.” the courts ignore even my ex’s own litigation experts who give me glowing diagnosis and opinions.
As an activist court watcher, I am beginning to see more and more women become victims of this tactic that was once solely allowed to be used by women against men. When the pandora’s box of myths used as reality is opened, who will put each one of these evil demons back into the box?
Gender bias is the primary tool of female socio/psycho paths in maintaining a ‘business as usual’ abuse of others, even other women.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:30am
Free says:
I agree also with patriotdad regarding the statement about sociopathy being less common in women. Sociopathy is not gender specific. From my experience women can be just as emotionally manipulative and just as destructive as a male sociopath, but for some reason it is more accepted from a woman as it is described as mere bitchiness or jealousy. Perhaps because it is more covert? I’m not sure. But, from my experience I thought this behaviour was normal until I realised it wasn’t when I finally opened my eyes to see the truth. Male or female? It doesn’t matter. If there is no conscience, there is no conscience. Evil comes in all shapes and sizes and in any sex.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:41am
patriotdad says:
I can fully identify with glummerman as to the personal attacks of all categories, including murder attempts. It is the threats towards our child that are the most frightening. I, too, have been jailed on false allegations. The courts do not want to count the documented volume of allegations made by my ex against all who anger her. I have documented over 20 sex abuse allegations alone against over 12 people. And, she never has been held accountable. It has cost me well over 7 figures in 14 years to try to minimize the harm to my child and protect myself enough to be able to stay in touch with my child. The thousands of issues created and raised in the past 14 years since the divorce can fill volumes. The file in the court is contained in two boxes. Half of the court’s file is now “missing” some of the more graphic and revealing exhibits and filings. Some of the specific events of the past 14 years in my case have been documented in Dr. Stephen Baskerville’s new book, “Taken Into Custody”. I have watched even worse cases than mine as an activist court watcher in our local courts. The judges are very much aware of who the innocent and who the guilty are, but will laugh away from the courtroom about doing the PC thing when it comes to gender rulings. It is OK for others children but they would go ballistic if these things were happening to theirs. I have known people driven to suicide and self-destructive behavior after being hounded, stalked, and harassed for years in every aspect of their life by a sociopath/psychopath while the courts found humor and employment for their fellow attorneys.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:49am
Wini says:
I did my own research on female and male anti-social personalities as they came in and out of my 52 years. I always asked the victims of female anti-socials (that I knew were of this making), that’s after they licked their wounds and brushed themselves off and picked their lives out of the gutters to start life all over again … about their sex life with a female anti-social. First thing out of a man’s life was the sex. Not the love making … the sex. The sex with these women were intense. I then asked how was the “love making”, for which most responses were “what LOVE making”? If they had to look back and answer this question truthfully, they realized their was no love making what-so-ever with an anti-social personality. It’s all show, it’s all intense, it’s all done to make you feel like you are the most important man in her life. I worked with many anti-social women who hated decent bosses that believed in God, believed in their wives and home life, believed in truth and justice … that they did everything to ensure those bosses were out the doors and soon. These women detested working for decent bosses that they could not manipulate first sexually. After manipulating sexually, all the other tricks to their trades came out to play and every one is fair game to them. Lies are told behind everyone’s back to ensure they get their own way. I remember telling several of them (after they jumped into my life and snared me into friendships with them for years) that friends like you, I don’t need any enemies. Answer from the lead anti-social personality that controlled and manipulated all the other anti-social female personalities in our work place “she’ll be back, just wait”. I never gave my response directly to them … but my response got back to them “they don’t own me, I owe them nothing, I can’t change them, I can’t fix them, I send them love and peace, but I am not staying involved with any of them … they are on the wrong path in life”. Well, you never tell an anti-social personality that they are jerks, because, they are jerks. Jerks that jerk your life into the ground. The rest is history, this conversation took place in 1988 … they worked all the years from 1988 on to nail me… which started the beginning and the end of my career in 1998 until I retired in 2004. Six years of enduring the wrath of all the anti-social personalities that booted all the decent managers out of their positions and installed their anti-social cronies in their places and all the checks and balances were gone. To run that place through CHAOS, anti-social CHAOS. To say or do anything they wanted, when they wanted. Many people lost their careers during this time, but those anti-social women are still there, still allowed to weave their dark evil magic on all the new comers, still collecting paychecks, still getting promotions, still destroying careers and personal lives, still sleeping with bosses, still running the show from behind the scenes … and then some, still keeping the chaos growing. Bottom line, who in position of power does NOT read their Bibles. Who in the court systems doesn’t read their Bibles. And the chaotic saga continues until we ensure those we in trust with authority over our lives … Read the word of God.
2nd final note … Do not underestimate anti-social personalities … they are very good at putting a thought into a person of power’s mind … then backing off for years … out of sight and allowing this dark suggestion to flourish. Do not think they are up front and in the spotlight for anything destructive that they do … and they all have their fall person(s) to take the hit for them. That is their specialty. Planting the dark seed and allowing it to grow … and stepping back into the shadows to watch the fireworks that they lit the match years ago.
3rd Note … quotes from female anti-social personalities that I personally knew “I hate nice guys, they make me sick, they make my skin crawl”.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 6:51am
patriotdad says:
I once had a female psychologist, Dr. Anne Wheeler, tell me that evey man she knew had at least one brush with one of these women (with no boundaries they can cover a lot of ground) but most managed to get disentangled before too much damage was done. She also used the analogy of why these wome are so successful is what she called the “intense spotlight of their attention that can blind you of all else” until too late. Over more than a decade of now informed observation, I find her observation more revealing now than then. I was one of those deer in the spotlight of a poacher. Who warns us of these types of people? No one. Women are taught the signs of an abusive man. Men and boys are taught that all women are innocent, until too late.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:02am
Free says:
Men and boys are taught that all women are innocent, until too late.
Not my boy patriotdad. My son who is 18 soon, was burnt so badly last year by someone who lied and cheated him too. Was she a sociopath? No, I don’t think so. She was just finding her feet and unhappy with her life that she felt that she had to lie about her intentions. People can be cruel. I don’t believe that men and boys are taught that all women are innocent. Not at all. I don’t think you can generalise about such things. Women, are not taught the signs of an abusive man. If they were, I wouldn’t have gone through what I have been through. Perhaps men, have not been taught to voice their experiences or not felt comfortable that they can. You know, to voice your feelings is not manly enough?
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:11am
Free says:
In saying that, whether you are man or woman… to voice abuse… is something we have been tongue tied for too long. I know I was. It takes guts to find our voice… male or female.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:13am
patriotdad says:
Dear Free, My child is girl in high school. They have had programs for years for the girls, talking to them about abuse and spotting abusive males. There is nothing in the schools. Yes, I generalized. I admit. There will be a minority who do receive some formal presentation on how to spot a female abuser. But as with your son, who was lucky to get off so light, most of us have to learn the hard way (me for one). I grew up in a relatively happy and non-abusive home. Women as abusers were a real world shock. At 60 years of age, I have watched the steady degradation of women’s roles in our society from decent, caring, responsible citizens to an position of super rights and privileges for the least lawful and most abusive. I am amazed at the volume of young women who are now beginning to reject this concept and are working to regain their decency and to help men recover a position of full rights as citizens. Many of these good women are working to normalize or societies views of gender at great cost to themselves. It is my generation, the youth of the 60’s, who planted the seeds of feminism, based on the mythical generalization that all men were abusers for which we all are now harvesting.
You may want to look up ifeminist.com. Wendy McElroy is just one of these strong voices speaking to return to sanity and to stop putting our female sociopaths into a special privilege category that gives them blanket immunity to harm men, children, and even other women.
There are some very destructive male sociopaths, but our laws and society put up more than a few obstacles for these guys.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:28am
patriotdad says:
Incomplete third sentence in my post above. “There is nothing in the schools for boys on spotting female abusers.”
Just to clarify.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:30am
patriotdad says:
Free,
I like your screen name. After many years of being entangled with a s/p-path because of my precious daughter, I wake up each morning grateful that I am both “Free and Alive”. I thank God each morning for those two things. That would sound overly dramatic to anyone who has not survived these wars. But it is so very true.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:38am
Free says:
It doesn’t sound dramatic to me patriotdad. Thank God too that I am FREE…. Sociopathic people do too much damage… too much… but luckily for us who are here at lovefraud, we are healing.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:45am
Free says:
Patriotdad, I worry about my son. He has learnt from me that abnormal behaviour is normal. Because that is what I learnt. Luckily though, through my experience, I am able to point out NOW and advise that he needs to love himself and to have boundaries. To follow his heart and make sure that he is loved. I hope and pray, that he doesn’t fall for a sociopath… like his mother did… once upon a time.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 7:48am
scout says:
Hi,
I’m hoping that someone out there can help me with my female sociopathic neighbour.
She portrays herself as wonderful to my neighbours, while constantly harassing us when no one is looking. She constantly throws debris on our property, steals from us, damages our plants, smashes her car or lawnmower into our fence, throws excrement on our property all the while trashing me verbally to my neighbours. ( I suspect that she is accusing me to my neighbours of doing these things too her.) Three of my immediate neighbours no longer talk to me(which i don’t really care about)but what bothers me is that she interferes with our enjoyment of our property and is hell bent without conscience on screwing us over.
Once i threw the stuff back, and she called the police, and she portrayed herself as a damsel and convinced the cop that she had to fear for her personal safety. we took this woman in when she moved here, gave her a key to our house, and made her meals while her home was being renovated and in return she calls the cops who threaten to charge me with criminal mischief! she took photos of my husband talking to the cop so she could tell her stories around the neighbourhood.
I’ve tried ignoring her as she is just trying to provoke us, but I feel victimized in my own home. We’ve tried talking to her, but she denies there is a problem. Last weekend I photographed her while she was smashing her lawnmower into our fence and she looked around to see if anyone was looking and dropped her drawers.
We just want to live here in peace and hey, if you don’t like us, you live on your property and we’ll live on ours…but this woman is hell bent on destroying us.
Please help by sharing your opinion and advice as to how to deal with this situation please.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 9:41am
OxDrover says:
Dear Scout,
I wish I could tell you that there was a way to reason with this woman.
My suggestion is to install video survelience cameras (they make them small now and ones that even “see” and record in the DARK. Point them in the direction that will best catch her at her mischief and then RECORD the action.
I would also get a small pocket sized voice recorder and keep in ON and in my pocket if you ever have to talk to her, or if she starts screaming at you then you can push “record”
With this EVIDENCE you should be able to prosecute her with the LAW which should get your neighbors off your case as well.
This woman may be a psychopath or she may be mentally disordered or ill, but the problem doesn’t matter, it is causing you grief.
PROOF beyond a shadow of a doubt is I think your only option.
The price of the equipment to get PROOF is coming down and you can either install it yourself or get someone else to do so. It can even be disguised in light fixtures or other “normal” things, so it doesn’t look like cameras.
Good luck!
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 10:00am
scout says:
Thanks OxDrover for your suggestions. I’ve been thinking of cameras…whether they should be obvious or hidden but i’m leaning towards obvious as a deterrent.
I know that this woman hates exposure which is why she is so sneaky and an incorrigible liar.
She may be mentally disordered or ill or a sociopath, but one thing is sure; she is able to pick and choose her victims, is able to fool others with her lies, and is able to control when she chooses to act ( at night or out of the sight of neighbours) which indicates to me that she intends to target me, is aware that it is socially unacceptable and doesn’t want others to know. She has discredited me to everyone already, as I can see in their changed behaviour towards me that they believe her lies even though they have never seen me do anything to validate this.
Ugh, I’m frustrated and just need to vent to someone who has an idea what people like this are REALLY like. Damn, they could win an Academy Award for Acting. And those that suspect she is malicious and dishonest are too intimidated to say anything because they’re afraid she’ll turn her wrath on them.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 10:34am
OxDrover says:
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. If it were ME, just being the stubborn witch that I am, I would use the hidden cameras and then prosecute her with the law, just to show the neighbors that SHE was the problem all along. But, that’s ME.
Maybe SHE will move then! When she is outed! LOL
Good luck!
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 12:48pm
patriotdad says:
Cameras and digital pocket audio recorder are a must. They have kept me out of jail on so many occasions I can not count them. My ex, on exchanges of our child, would call the police at least once a week. She would claim violence, threats, assaults, property damage, etc……. I had a video monitor system with a power inverter from Sam’s club in the trunk with the little cigarette packet sized camera mounted with velcro so that I could just stick it up no matter what the angle I parked. I would start the tape when I left home an hour and a half away and not turn it off until I got home. She would claim I would come to town early or leave late and stalk her, etc…..
I proved so many felony false reports and perjuries, my attorney quit counting. Nothing was done to her. But I was regularly being stopped by police, followed by police and in court bringing the tapes and recordings. The expenses were enormous but without them, I would be in jail like so many other innocent men.
OxDrover gave you the best advice ever and supported by four of my attorneys and more litigation psychologists than I ever wanted to know much less have to pay.
My ex even managed to make my self-protection tapes look like stalking and somehow “bad” that I used them to prove my innocence over and over again.
If she is really exposed, she may move out. These people are all about the image. How else can they maintain their scams.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 1:05pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Patriot dad,
You are a man after my own heart! Good job with the tapes for the child custody and visitation!
My X-BF-P burned his prior girlfriend’s house, after I broke up with him I figured he might try something similar on mine, so I made sure he knew that I had video survelience AND that my two sons would seek revenge on him. I wouldn’t have let them even if they had wanted to, but the P didn’t know that so having him afraid of my kids didn’t hurt anything either. So he hasn’t burned my house! LOL I even told him that if lightening sturck my house and I SAW the strike, I would still blame HIM! LOL
Good job, dad! Maybe you can use the same tactics against the neighbor, EXPOSURE will take the acadamy award out of her performance. LOL
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 1:30pm
Beverly says:
Dear Scout, I sympathise with you and it is so unfortunate that you are living next door to an anti social. It is a horrible feeling to be fearful of what you may find when you get home, or be afraid to leave your home for fear of damage.
Where I live we pray for rain, because that keeps the anti socials in, the darker evenings keeps the younger ones in. I have endured a fair amount of anti social behaviour where I live and we do not look forward to the long school summer holiday. I never go on holiday for more than a week, because I fear for my property. Alot of trouble is causing by a minority of the same teenagers and small children. Poor parenting I think is probably the root cause. There is one particular young man who lives a few houses up from me who has an ‘anti social behaviour order’ from the police. He doesnt go to school, his named is tagged on walls with drug pictures and because he is often up to tricks at night, speeding up and down at 3am on an unlicenced motorbike, he wakes everyone up. I have spoken to him and his mother on more than one occasion when he was lobbing bricks into my garden, but it is obvious that he cares not a jot. The geographical layout, where I live, makes it easy for them to get away with it. I have spoken to these children and their parents on many occasions about damage done to my property and I usually get abused. Most people here keep their heads down. There is a climate of fear, and I have spoken to people who have challenged and have also been abused, and this scares them off taking it further.
There is no community, so people are on their own. People here get away with behaviour that in more upper class areas, would not be tolerated at all. I think there were some articles written about anti social children in the UK - well I live in one such area and I have seen and experienced first hand, what they do and how they do it. I have my house for sale!
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 2:35pm
Beverly says:
Dear Scout, In the UK, you would be advised to keep a log of events and pictures that you can show to the police. In my experience, I have tried ignoring anti socials, often they just move on, but if they feel like targeting my property, they just do it. So in my mind, either way is not a total solution, confronting them just inflames them and they will be sure to get you back another day - like anti socials do - they want to make you pay. If you ignore them, they step up the action. I used to work as a community worker and when people group together there is much more power. Unfortunately when one person is bearing the brunt of the trouble, neighbours will often not intervene. In the good old days, people would not have tolerated this kind of behaviour.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 2:42pm
OxDrover says:
Well, Beverly, in some ways the “good old days” are here in my rural area–after the Crazy across the road SUED me for $50K$ for my husband “trespassing” on his land to DIE in the plane crash, the neighbors RAN HIM OUT OF THE COMMUNITY! The store wouldn’t serve him, the local veterinarian wouldn’t treat his animals, etc. so, sometimes the neighbors will help. Since my family has lived here since 1833 and he had only moved in here 10 yrs before, and had already alienated everyone anyway, the law suit for “HIS” DAMAGES–mental suffering! LOL
It never got to court of course, but my attorney told his attorney that IF IT DID there was not a jury in this county that would give him a dime, and there was a good chance they would TAR AND FEATHER him on the way out! I actually did have people offer to kill him for me! NO joke.
Of course in Scout’s situation HIS OX is the only one being “gored” so the neighbors who are NOT a “community” just keep their heads down. Which is a shame our society has come to that. One of the reasons I moved back here was I loved the SENSE OF COMMUNITY here, even now. Maybe not as much as it was when I was a kid, but still a sense of something besides a “house” among people you don’t know.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 3:14pm
Beverly says:
OxyD is that the guy who wouldnt pay you for renting your land? LOL yes, it is all crazy isnt it. It just shows you where people are at in their heads when they want to sue for a tragic accident on their land - where are their priorities??? We have a big suing culture here in the UK too. Some people make a living out of repeatedly tripping over paving stones in the street, so that they can sue the local council for compensation - even members of the same family have done the same thing!! LOL
Community is the one thing I mourn in its passing. People here have become very insular. Its is shame and also very dangerous. Things have changed alot.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 3:20pm
scout says:
patriotdad: thanks for the advice. your scenario with your ex sounds like an emotionally draining endeavour but it sounds like you have some good ways of disproving the lies.
beverley: when you say that confronting them inflames then and ignoring them causes them to step up the action…BINGO! there is no winning. this woman is hell-bent as i said on making life miserable. I have great difficulty understanding how anyone can be so mean spirited…it seems like such a waste of energy to spend time being so hostile and destructive. What is the satisfaction or payoff for her?
and no, i’m not moving. we built this house and i’ll be darned if anyone is going to run me out…but ignoring her doesn’t seem to help. beverley, how sad you’re moving because of nitwits interfering with your right to live in peace on your own property.
re: the camera suggestions: in canada we have privacy laws. i could only place the cameras to watch my property. she could continue to heave stuff over the fence without entering my property to do so and i would have no photo of her face, just the crap being flung over and be out the cost of the camera. any other ideas.
thanks again for your input, oxdrover, patriotdad and beverley.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 3:45pm
Beverly says:
Dear Scout. I understand and hear what you say. It is hard to say what the payoff for her is. Is she mentally ill? Was she living there before you built your home there? Do you have any dialogue with any of her family? Why is she so angry?
I have made my place into a lovely home and I have a beautiful garden. When people come to look at my place, they have all said, we like the house, but we dont like the area. For me, it is no good living in a beautiful house, if I feel under seige just over my wall. I value my peace of mind and contentment at the top of my wellbeing list, so I will just make another beautiful home somewhere else.
Here in the UK, if you report harrassment to the police, they will set up a camera. But I see your dilemma, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. There must be clauses to the privacy laws. The same here, local councils have cameras all over every town, I think the UK has a huge amount of cameras everywhere. The local councils had started to film people dropping litter, but they are not allowed to do that, because of peoples human rights.
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 3:59pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Scout–I thinnk I would figure out some way to GET A PHOTO of her doing it–then maybe confront HER directly and say, LOOK, if you do this again I will show this to all theneighbors—then if she threatens to take it to the police–when the police show up, say “WHAT FILM?”
I think that she is doing this for EXCITEMENT and malice, she has nothign better to do so she wants to create chaos–so if you can get proof, you can make her back off. That kind of person is soooooo careful of their “reputation” and if she knows you can expose her (even “illegally”) she should back off.
Just like me making my X-BF-P think that my kids would take revenge (like burning his house) as long as HE THOUGHT it, it put the brakes on him. SOMETIMES A GOOD BLUFF is all you need. You just have tomake sure that the person you are bluffing won’t CALL YOUR BLUFF. So picking your subject is important. your neighbor is doing this I think so she will have some “gossip” and some “sympathy” from the neighbors because her life is BORRRRRRING–she gets ATTENTION.
So if you can convince her that you will EXPOSE her for a FAKE to the neighbors—she will DO ANYTHING to keep that from happening—including LEAVING YOU ALONE.
It is the only way I can see that you can “win” in this one.
Beverly, no, this was NOT the same guy who wouldn’t pay the rent on the land, this was a neighbor who came in and bought land across the road from us. He was ADHD and very socially incompetent, he was a pest and a nuisence and was always over at our airport telling wild tales about what a “hero” he was, a CIA, NAvy SEal, FBI, 5,000 parachute jumps, etc. He didn’t even know enough to tell a believable lie, but he thought he would “impress” everyone and they would like him. Just a pest. I finally got to the point I would tell him to GO HOME, when the plane crashed he was the first person there besides me, my cousin and our hired hand, and he started asking questions and saying things like “I guess I better go call my insurance agent about all this damage” (there was $20 worth of damage and I paid that) He didn’t even offer to call 911 when people were on FIRE! I told him in NO uncertain terms to get the F**K away, and ran back to the house to call 911. HE WANTED TO BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION at my husband’s death and the severe burning of three other people. I am sure he sued me to “get revenge” for my “embarassing” him at the scene of the crash.
When news of the suit got out (those things are published in the local paper) he DENIED that he had done it. Then when confronted about that lie, he said “Oh, I just turned it over to my ATTORNEY and HE did it” LIke an attorney will file suit for you and you don’t even know about it. LOL
I can laugh about it now, but at the time (a couple of days before the first anniversary of my husband’s death) when I was served with the papers I about LOST IT. Heck, WHY MINCE WORDS, I did lose it! LOL
It is nice that he is gone out of the neighborhood though. He still owns the land but it is up for sale and he has moved.
Sorry about the harassment about your home, I can definitely relate before the TH-P went to prison. At least they aren’t trying to kill you though, maybe that’s some consolation! LOL
Tuesday, 24 June 2008 @ 4:43pm