“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?”
PDF “How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ‘need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
DUPED NO MORE! says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind
Hey, thanks skylar (xxoo) check out that link on ‘double bind’…
wow: hmm….interesting to say the least.
Thanks for the congrats! Oh yes, gets better all the time now.
I don’t think the hurt ever goes away but I am learning how to reprocess it now.
Love & wishes to you too…
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
The double bind…in schizo’s is an escape from a state of thinking learned from a child as a way of their coping as an adult…they rationalize the difficulties by stepping into a different and altered state of reality where most of it is made up and not real. This is the same kind of thing a drug addict will do when they are short of a fix…their whole being becomes tuned to finding it. Same thing only instead of it being a drug, it is a DRUG for them, inside their own minds: a way to escape reality. So they aren’t really in touch with reality and can’t feel it or experience it.
Interesting. That is why we are so ‘off balance’ with all of this because we were receiving two different messages = confusion. But it was inherent in them anyways and they were conveying it to us. It became a habit for us and now we must try to break that habit.
Our minds were almost conditioned to ‘accept’ and ‘reason’ that double bind just like theirs. We came in tuned and accustomed to it…escaping reality with them. We allowed them to ‘lead’ us right straight into a corner. And when they got us to that corner, it all exploded because they became too confused to see their way out. Like a cougar who is trapped up against a wall…they escaped and left us at the wall…
I still say that we choose and make our own destinies in this life. EVEN THEY HAVE CHOICES.
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skylar says:
Ana,
I think if we all knew how many spaths are actually walking around us every day, we would all :::scream:::!
I know some people probably think that I throw the word “spath” around way too loosely, encompassing the fence sitters with the instigators. But what DO you call “people” who walk around envious? And not only envious, but who take every opportunity to sabotage and create drama while putting on a phony mask of love and friendship? WHO DOES THAT?
spaths.
My parents come to mind. Nobody would call them sociopaths, though my father is an obvious narcissist. They seem very nice and devoted to their spath kids.
But I think it’s a mask.
When I asked them, several times, why they didn’t tell me that they overheard my spath SAYING that he was only with me for my money, they gave me 3 different answers. The last answer was the most telling.
First answer: “We didn’t think you would believe us.”
Second answer: “We DID tell you, you just don’t remember, your father never stopped harping about it.”
It is true, that they told me spath was only after my money, but they never told me they overheard him admit it. Why would I believe their spectulation? They speculate about motivations all the time. So why wouldn’t I give my loving spath, the benefit of the doubt?
The third and most telling answer was:
“Well how much money did you give your mother? hahahahah!” said daddy dearest.
“Oh, about $500, hahahahaha!” said mommy dearest.
“WTF?” said skylar.
“Why are you talking about how much money I’ve given you?”
It took a second for me to understand that my parents envied the insurance settlement that I got from a car accident.
–But wait. I realized yesterday, that when daddy dearest overheard the spath’s comment, I had been in the car accident and was pretty sure I would get a settlement, but I didn’t know how much. At that time, I didn’t have much money. So…WTF?
It wasn’t the money they envied. That became their excuse later to appease their own cogdis. They just envied me for being me.
That’s why I always say “they’re everywhere”. Envy is rampant, it is everywhere.
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Envy is one of the driving forces of a spath.
I believe it is true. That’s what makes them so cunning.
They tell us what we want to hear, suck us in by using our kindnesses and good graces, believing where we were lead and when we expected more, they threw us face first into the ground because they were jealous and this was funny and entertaining to them.
Yes, they are everywhere and the more our society digresses from values and things of virtue, the more prevalent they are going to become in our society. Just my take on it.
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skylar says:
Wow Duped!
The double bind is very interesting too! I’m still reading it.
The cog dis wiki was so intersting. There was a sentence:
Washing one’s hands has been shown to eliminate post-decisional dissonance, presumably because the dissonance is often caused by moral disgust (with oneself) which is related to disgust from unsanitary conditions
This is what I experienced whenever I would visit my spath sis and trojan horse Brother in law. It was an overwhelming feeling of needing to take a shower! This was several years before I knew about spaths or that BIL was a trojan horse. I remember mentioning it to my mother. Their home was very clean and nice, but they made me feel slimed and I wanted to wash after being in close proximity to them.
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
oh yes, the washing of one’s hands…
something spath used to constantly do.
He also carried around those little baby wipes to wipe himself after going to the bathroom. Something he learned in combat, I am sure but to carry that over into real life…I mean, come on…whatever floats your boat, is what I thought but his OBSESSION for cleanliness and neatness and “WHY DID YOU HANG THOSE UP LIKE THAT!” It was just constant…always knew everything about everything…just ask him.
Feeling SLIMED is a good way to put it ~
I always felt that way after he would leave my presence…
To think I actually LOVED “THAT”! EWWWW!!!!
My radar was way off on that one!!!
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Oh, he said, smirking: “Don’t think I am going to waste any time feeling guilty about you nor sorry….I will just be happy to get you out of my life so I don’t have to listen to you anymore, you stupid bitch.” Oh really? Excuse me, DEMON, where did THAT outburst come from? What pit from hell did THAT comment spew from???
Yes: CD….definitely. They are just not in touch with reality. The reality they have is the one they made up from all the lies they have told to get to this point in their life. It’s all lies. Except for the parts that CAN BE substantiated. Their interpersonal relationships are all LIES and manufactured, inside their head. When you don’t give them what they perceive, all of a sudden, you become the ‘bad guy’…”WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? ARE YOU CRAZY?” Yah, right….
Just a big old pretense, all of it.
But, to be fair to us (known to be called blindsided) I must say that they are very cunning and have honed those skills so well, you can’t even see it coming.
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Ana says:
Hey Duped,
My friend spath had a “cleaning” habit also. I guess they must feel somehow; dirty.
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Ana says:
Skylar,
I agree with you, they are everywhere. I just came back from dinner with husband and I asked him if he walks around being envious…he said no.
I know that if I want something someone else may have, I either work to go get it for myself, or I forget about it. I don’t carry envy around..It’s so right on the mark and so weird isn’t it?
Well, that was some revelation about your parents! That onion just keeps getting peeled layer by layer. I’ve had some memories of my childhood come back lately. I tell them to my husband just so they get heard. His parents were not like mine..I think he got the good ones. But, we keep on Skylar. Investigating and sharing here with others helps me. So, thanks.
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Ana: THEY DESERVE AND NEED TO FEEL DIRTY. xxoo
All the cleaning in the whole world isn’t going to wash away those twisted minds!!!!!
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skylar says:
Ana,
the thing about envy, is that it isn’t a desire to have something similar to what someone else has. It is being angry that the other person has it.
I might want to have a nice car, but it also makes me happy to see others with a nice car. It doesn’t make me unhappy.
That’s the difference. Spaths don’t just want what others have, they don’t want the others to have it either.
Your co-worker doesn’t have to hate you for losing weight, she can just lose weight too. Why be envious? Why not be happy when others succeed?
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Ana says:
Skylar,AHH, you’re right. Why not be happy when other succeed? I know that saying “To get what you want, help someone else to get what they want” It sounds nice to me; fair.
You are correct, she could lose weight also, and I would cheer her on. No, on a break of a couple hours I will run to the gym. She runs home to sit in her backyard. I told her I might go to the gym, or go run an errand, but I will not go home and sit on my rear during work hours (we are contractors, not employees). Only because it’s so hard to get back up once sitting on ones rear end! LOL
Being angry that someone else has it…sounds like a child to me. I don’t want it, but I don’t want you to have it either..sooo self centerd…
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
I don’t know about you guys but MY SPATH acted like he was 12 years old when he was upset that JUST MAYBE you had ANYTHING better than IT…IT never wanted me to be happy nor appreciated ANYTHING ‘happy’ I ever had to say to it. It was always a ‘downer’ and encouraged that in others. ALWAYS. Yes, Ana, I noticed that about them: very immature. Especially when they don’t get their own way.
I especially noticed how they despise it so if you are a person of substance or virtue. They just really really really hate that and are so jealous of the strength we have when we show it. I think that’s why mine has always been so hellbent on destroying me – because HE can’t BE ME and HAVE the same substance I have.
And,yes, I truly believe that ‘rabbit hole’ DOES go that deep with them.
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Ana says:
Duped,
Yes, the rabbit hole goes that deep and then some!
The woman I knew was very negative. She hated other women and called all her co-workers the “c” word. I thought geez, I never realized she’s like this ALL the time…she just hated people in general, men, woman, children. She also has a special needs nephew…she always claimed how much she cared/loved him. In the whole two years she lived above us, we saw him 2 times. Yeah, right. She used him as an excuse not to do things she did not want to do. What a disgrace. Actually, she used everyone for everything!
Thank God you are away from it Duped. He sure sounds like a nasty lil spath…Maybe mine, yours, and everyone elses with burn in the same hell they wanted for us!
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Ana: Their hell is only beginning….
They are LIVING their hell and as I told my spath:
“I am not jumping off anymore cliffs with you nor am I going to travel this insane journey you are on.” And, I meant it. It took me FIVE TIMES BREAKING NC to get it right, and it was hell, getting it right, FINALLY, because my conscious was eating me alive and I didn’t realize that was a ‘trauma bond’ not any real loyalty or sense of ‘just’ or ‘rightness’…
He was horrid. Think of the typical ‘possession’ scenario, like maybe in one of those movies – he was just like that once the mask came off and it was difficult getting away from it. It was just a real exhibition, I can tell you. Things don’t usually ‘scare’ me, and I am not really scared now, or afraid, but I am telling you, seeing THAT – the way IT acts, it’s scarey. Yes. And, it’s loose on the streets with you, me and the children in this life. Nobody is safe from it. If he can see a spot, he will exploit it. It doesn’t matter who you are are what you do or have or don’t have…all it takes is giving them the opportunity.
I am getting this so quickly behind me…
soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo quickly….
I believe in sweet karma…
the only thing missing was the head spinning around…
xxoo
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Ana says:
LOL Duped,
What about the pea soup????? It’s amazing how they can zero in on peoples “soft spots” and exploit the livin’ be geebers out of them.
It’s good that we are here and learning to spot new ones!
No more spaths..NUN!
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
ew: pea soup; double ew!
I always have this ‘vision’ of him flying around the room, cracking his bones and his lips all black and the black circles around his eyes, drips of blood coming from his bared teeth…
Like I said (not to be poetic or cute) (seriously) the only thing missing was his head spinning around. NOW THAT IS SCAREY. Almost like it’s not human anymore.
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Ana says:
Duped,
So, yes, the pea soup fits right into that nightmare. I cannot imagine seeing this IT…Good lawd, he sounds horrendous! God Bless ya Duped, stay safe and more importantly: SOUND!!
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
ana if you are in the US – no problem.
I ain’t but they are the same.
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
you know – my sib has this zero in on and exploit capability – she has always had it. for her the exploitation was always to hurt the person, not so much (in my experience of her) to manipulate them.
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Ana says:
Hey One Joy Step,
Yep, I’m in the US. My husband is going to New Hampshire tomorrow, but he’ll be home in the evening. He has to visit his sister who is ailing. Do you know when you’ll be gettin’ the door? When is the big install??lol
Do we have a time difference?? So many questions Ana, please shut up!!
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Ana: thanks, I am alright. I have lots of protection, spiritual and otherwise.
Yah, pea soup: ewwww! You wouldn’t believe what it was like once that mask came off. OMG: It was like something out of a possession movie, seriously. All fidgeting around, eyes blinking, lips rolled back, veins on the neck popping out – wow..I couldn’t be around it more than a few hours. It left me with a chill in my blood and I haven’t seen it or been around it for 3-1/2 months now and I am still shaking and “I” am NOT normally one to do this. I have been through way too much in my life for something like this to upset me so to my core!
Thanks, Ana – it has been more horrid than I can completely explain here, right at this moment. Just reach into the dark depths of a spath mind and try to imagine…
Yes…all of the above.
xxoo
Stay safe, Ana..
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Hens says:
starlight star bright the moon sho is bright tonite….:)
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Ana says:
Duped,
That is horrible. I’m glad you are strong and getting away from it. You sound good in your posts, like you totally get it. I’m glad you are NC for 3.5 months. He does NOT deserve somone like you, No Way.
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skylar says:
good evening Hens!
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Ana says:
Hens,
LOL! Friday was the full moon where I am.
One Joy Step: also known as guru purnima….remember?
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
xxoo Ana: thank you for your encouragement and kindness. It means a lot to me. I am trying to be strong. It has been really difficult. I am starting to get on my feet now and becoming grounded.
HENS: FULL MOON??? Please say it isn’t so…
spath always goes off at full moon!
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Hens says:
howdy howdy ya’ll – dupey I get a little frisky myself when the moon is fulllll – hell I might even go frolic in the pool tonite..nekked ~!
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
hahahahaha: frolic naked…don’t let the moon see ya!
Better yet: don’t shoot the moon! ahahaha
OMG: spath get’s bazonkers on a full moon. That’s why I think he is really a blood sucking vampire. Only when he has morphed into that persona, though. hehehehe Damn them!
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Ana says:
Hens,
LOL Nekked! You full moon crazy! I say Go boy, GO!
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Ox Drover says:
Wow, PARRRRRR-TAY TIME!!!!! Saturday night and no one has a date! LOL Just got back from the auction….had a great time and lots of laughs! Saw some friends and old friends, and even ate an ice cream cone! (cheated a little bit!) G’nite you guys!
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dancingnancies says:
Goodnight Oxy! I wish i had an ice cream cone! Of course, with what I’ve been eating this week, it’s probably better that I don’t.
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
Oh my gosh: I just looked outside at the full moon!
::spath alert::
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Hens says:
Dupey – Go for a walk in the moonshine, be adventurous ~!
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Hope to heal says:
Hens ~ you gave me a giggle with this one! Wouldn’t that be a good way to pickle your feet?? walking in the moonshine… roflmao
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panther says:
Another good one, though it gives me chills.
This part: “sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral.”
To the very T!
He strangled me nearly to death, then took me to the hospital with my torn esophagus. To this day, if you ask him about that night, he will go into a long monologue about how much HE suffers from this experience. I can barely wrap my head around this way of functioning….so basically you strangle your “love” nearly to death and then gee POOR YOU that as such a hard experience. Not EVER did he seem to grasp in the slightest that maybe, just maybe, it was a hard experience for ME too!!!!! I tried explaining this to him, and he would just respond that yes, this is why he suffers so greatly. Reminds me of parents saying: This will hurt me more than it hurts you.
He feels what he tells himself he feels. I think he assigned “obsession” the label “true, selfless love” because he was ready and willing to cut off his own arm (selfless) in order to guarantee his dominion over me, and then he’d go on and on about his arm, the one he himself had cut off, as a way to demonstrate his devotion, but actually to further emotionally warp my senses. How he could rationalize — Poor me! I strangled the woman I love! — just BAFFLED me.
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Bels says:
After nine years without him and having rebuilt my life, some kind person gave him my address and he turned up on my doorstep! I told him where to go and he didn’t bother me for a while. Unfortunately, however, the woman he was with after me and subsequently married committed suicide in the summer (I wonder why!). He then turned up on my doorstep again and every time his mouth moved I knew he was lying. He made me feel emotionally blackmailed because he was crying and carrying on and all I wanted was for him to go away. He then went on to say that he wanted to get back with me and I told him he was wasting his time as that would never happen so he then retorted that he had a girlfriend anyway! I told him I knew his girlfriend and had her number in my phone and that’s when I saw a genuine emotion from him – worry that I may call her and tell her!
Has anyone else had this sort of experience? I’m hoping that my actions may have seen him off but he is so thick skinned and pushy I’m afraid I’m not too optimistic.
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callmeathena says:
Panther
Wow. He sounds so warped. Keep your distance. Distance will give you clarity.
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SuvivorAgain says:
DenialMomma: Keep reading the blog Candy gave you. Be kind to yourself. Get sleep, eat well, and exercise. It really helps.
Believe in your higher being. Mine is God.
I left my spath the first time 10 years ago. I finally left him for good the second time and divorced him 3 years ago. It is very hard, but I know you can do it. Even if you loose everything. It is just STUFF. If you are hurt and your children are because you stay, what good is the STUFF.
Everything can be replaced, but not our previous children and people that we love. DO NOT GO BACK. THEY DO NOT CHANGE.
I made that mistake. Please learn from my mistake. Spath used the “love bombs” with me, telling me that my children need an intact home. NO. They need a loving home.
Talk it out with us. We have been there. We will support you and help you as much as we can. Pray — prayer is very powerful.
Do not waste another minute with this evil monster. They are evil, master planners and manipulative. Save yourself and your previous children.
Good Nite.
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