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“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?”

Friday, 26 January 2007 @ 8:23am • My Weblog

“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ‘need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.

I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.

How did he really feel?

In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.

There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.

There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.

The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.

There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.

Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.

What did he want from me?

This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.

If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.

Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.

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written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •

LAMan says:

Again, a helpful read! I wish I could see what medical/psychological journals 100 years from now will say about this disorder.

My recovery is going well, and 95% of the time I am strong, but I have moments of weakness. I googled last night just to see if any new pictures are posted by my psycho (he’s a photographer) and sometimes he posts pics of himself in galleries. I found two new ones and although I am not wishing for the relationship to return (god no!) –I marvel at how he is smiling and looking perfectly happy and unaffected — as if we had never been together.

I know he has this disorder, but he functions outwardly like a “great guy.” It is so confounding.

What you say in this post makes sense and fits my psycho’s profile. Funny, we all “obsess” to some degree with new love, I believe. For psychos, it must be different.

I have to re-resolve to stop thinking about him in any way. The analysis of what happened is good for me as it is leading to a better life for myself and helping to fix what led me to the psycho in the first place. And the disorder is a fascinating condition, we all must admit, on a certain level.

But…too much time spent in the analysis is still a power victory for them. A “reverse obsession” on our part. Fascinating but necessary to control!

Still strong.

(Report abusive comment)

Friday, 26 January 2007 @ 3:44pm

southernman429 says:

Hello…………

I cannot begin to tell you just how helpful your site has been to me. I had a year long relationship with a woman that can only be described as a sociopath. For months after she left us, I have sought answers to just why and how things went the way they did. After reading about the traits of these predators, I had a enlighten realization about just who I was dealing with. I would like to share my story with you. This story is rather long, so please excuse…. After reading the other blogs, I can see now for the first time in months with clarity the how’s and why’s of it all… for me, that was one of the hardest things.. to make sense of someone else’s craziness…..

Well…. where to start?? …ok… .. lost my wife four years ago to cancer. Her name was Alyson. We were together for 16 years. She was sick for 2 1/2 years, and they were very difficult years, and like a lot of people in that kind of situation, our marriage suffered along with her health. Actually, our marriage was in trouble several years prior to her illness, as she was a controller, and her controlling was apparent in every aspect of our relationship. When our son was born, this controlling went into high gear, and after some time, she placed our son between us like a wedge. Her controlling prevented me from being the father I had always wanted to be… this broke my heart, as I had a vision of what our little family would be, and the reality of what it was, so different from the dream…I loved her very much, but I was a disappointed, miserable man……It was such a far cry from the way it all started some 16 years before, as we were the perfect couple, and had so many good times, and loved each other very much. It was hard for me to understand how the journey from point A to point B could be so drastically different. I can look back now at my marriage and clearly see that not only was that relationship unhealthy, but it was abusive as well.

Six months before her death, she “emotionally divorced” both me and our son, Cole.. pushing us away, I think to spare us more pain, but it really gave us more. And from that time on, we rarely spoke at any great length again. Right before she died, she chose to be buried 150 miles away in North Carolina in a small town where her mother lives. I granted her wish, but found out that her mother had told her that I was a young man and I’d remarry and perhaps move to another state, and if she were to be buried here in Atlanta, she’d be all alone. Both of them were selfish, and that hurt me deeply, as no one was thinking about what was best for our son.
After her death, I was racked with guilt and regrets… I was guilt ridden about my diminished role as her husband in those last months, and although it was of her doing, one always thinks that they could have done more..some of the pain I had was over the lack of closure I got. When someone dies suddenly, you never get to say all the things you ever wanted to say to them. You don’t get closure. When someone dies a long, slow death, the trade off is even though it’s horrible to watch them slowly fade away, you get the closure, you get to tell them you love them, you get to say all the things you ever wanted to say… Well, with us, I was cheated of attaining that closure. I asked her many times to talk to me, but in her usual stubborn fashion, she denied this for me…So, in time, I learned to just come up with my own conclusions about what it was all about, and why things went the way they did for us…I found myself beating myself up over what I perceived as my short comings, but with time, and therapy, I worked through all of that, and for the next few years, tried to carve out a new life for my son and I. That was, very difficult as well, as you might imagine. But now I was able to be the father I always wanted to be…. After some time, 6 months (which was waaaaaay too early) I started dating.. mainly to have fun, as there hadn’t been any fun in so long… dated many women, looking for “the one”… looking for true love… looking to fill that hole in my heart…I looked under every rock, and behind every tree…I never found her. Met many users, takers, players, and just plain weird…but I was a determined man, and I wanted to fill that hole … I have since learned, and live my life today knowing that no one can fill a hole in your heart… it can only be filled by God, and one must be comfortable with themselves and their place in life, before they can truly love another, and have a healthy relationship… But at that time.. I just wanted the pain to stop… I’m sure you understand.

Nearly two years ago, a new woman came into our lives and we all fell in love. When I met Lisa, everything changed. She expressed deep feelings for me and I felt them about her as well. I felt like my dreams were coming true as she was everything I thought I ever wanted. Yes, I was vulnerable, because I had wanted to find love so badly. At that time, she said and did all the right things. She told me about her marriages and how horrible and how horrible these men had been to her and how controlling and selfish they were, and that she was scarred from those relationships, and from her childhood. I felt sorry for her. (sympathy, another sociopathic trait) She was fun, funny, smart, beautiful, and she couldn’t get enough of me. I quickly fell in love and actually she was the first one to actually say “I love you” Sex with her was unreal, she was totally giving in that area, and with that said, and her apparent deep feelings for me, I thought that finally everything was going to work out in my life, and Lisa was my inspiration. I spoiled her and loved doing it. I gave to her all the things that I couldn’t give to Alyson. In many ways, it was my second chance to be the good guy, and I invested heavily into our relationship. Lisa seemed to be right there with me on all levels. She helped me with Cole, and told me that being a mother to Cole was the second chance to be a mother since she was a horrible mother to her own daughter. (another red flag) She did many nice things for cole and picked him up from school, took him shopping, spent time with him, and told him and me just how much she loved him. We spent all most all of our free time together, and she stayed at my house four days a week. My family adored her, especially my mother. Lisa was gloating about that, “Your mom really likes me, I have that effect on people” (Another sociopathic trait.. high opinion of one’s self) When I started to talk about marriage, she was very adamant about not wanting to get married. I figured that with time, and proving to her that I was the real thing and that my love for her was true, that I would win her heart forever.

There were other red flags that at the time, I dismissed. Small tests here and there to see just what I’d put up with. Also, she showed a lack of responsibility, she seemed to have anger issues with men, and she always seemedto need to be entertained and would become bored easily. Her maturity level seemed below her age, she was 42 at the time. She would sometimes say something mean towards me for no reason, then put her hand over her mouth and say she was sorry and kiss me. She would make excuses for saying mean things, always saying she was sorry. My good nature prevented me from seeing deeper into just why she would so such things. I noticed that she didn’t give very much, and just took and took…. I once again ignored that. She was so charming and could melt me with her eyes and her smile. I adored her, and made the mistake of placing her upon a pedestal. I did many nice and thoughtful things for her and as time wore on, her appreciating those things and my feelings became less and less. Slowly, over the months, she began to distance herself emotionally from me. I didn’t really notice it at the time, but felt something was different. the abuse has already begun, but I couldn’t see it. She would sometimes show a total lack of compassion for my feelings. My response was to try harder, and I did. I planned trips, we went on 5 in a year. Cancun, New Orleans, Chicago, Dominican Republic, the Florida Keys. I took her to all the best restaurants, we went to hockey games, festivals, the mountains. I was very generous with my love, my time and effort, and my heart. I did many nice and thoughtfull things for her, and I guess I just wanted her to see that I was a exceptional man. It wasn’t just Lisa and I, it was Cole as well. When the three of us were together, it felt like a family. My heart soared, as this was what I missed the most, and wanted the most. In reality, Lisa didn’t want to be anyone’s wife or mother, so I guess the whole thing was a act, fake, an illusion. At Christmas, I bought her a 6000 dollar diamond and blue Safire ring. I loved her so much, and wanted to give her something of substance, as a symbol of my deep love. Two weeks before Christmas, she had a emotional breakdown, and I knew I had to take the ring back. I was hurt very badly. She was sending so many confusing signals…and told me conflicting things… she loved me but didn’t know if she wanted to be with me…, she was confused, and was unsure…, she didn’t want to lose me,… she didn’t know what she wanted….I was a mess… and couldn’t understand… I asked friends and family and my therapist what to do.. they all told me to be patient, and supporting, and just hang in there with her…Everybody including my family… WE ALL FELT SORRY FOR HER!!!!! We went to her Mom’s house for Christmas. Lisa was so fake… she acted like everything was just fine with us. I was hurting so badly, and pissed at her for being able to make everyone think that her and I were fine. I was dumbfounded at her ability to act like everything was so wonderful. What a actress, and it was the first time I actually saw with my own eyes her ability to be so unreal. I wanted tell them what Lisa had done. Her brother in law told me I was lucky to have such a beautiful girlfriend at my side. All I could say to him was”I can’t get a commitment out of Lisa” That whole night, I wanted to cry. I wanted to tell all of you just how badly I hurt. She was smiling, and laughing, sitting on my lap, acting like nothing was wrong. That night when we got to my house, I slept on my couch. Christmas eve, and all the happiness I ever wanted for that holiday was gone. For the Christmas’s before had been horrible. Three years prior, my wife had been in the hospital near death, and the next two years, I had been alone and sad. Now, my girlfriend, the woman I loved slept in my bed, while I slept on my couch. I layied there thinking… “this is f@#$%d up”.As January turned into February, our relationship improved. She began to stay over more often like before, but it was like she lived two lives. One with us and the other was with her female roommate. Both of these lives were capsulated and she would not let them mix..

We talked a lot about our relationship, and I began to think that things were going to be ok. I thought that she just needed time and patience. I sent her flowers at work, I wrote a poem at Valentines day, and took her to the ballet. I planned another trip for us to Costa Rica. March came, and things went down hill. She started fights all the time. Her behavior seemed to be so inconsistent…. it was like… “I love you, I need you, I want you… go away, you’re a intrusion” I was a mess…. what was going on with her? Why was she so mean? On the last day of the month, she came to my house and ended it. She said some pretty insensitive, mean things. She told me that “she wasn’t interested in doing the “family” thing anymore, been there done that”. She wanted her freedom. I told her that she was selfish.. she nodded her head in agreement…. no guilt, no remorse, no empathy. I told her that I had felt like she had just strung me along for a entire year making me think that if I just did this or did that, I’d get what I wanted out of the relationship. I asked her why she did this? Her answer was “Because I care about you” Then she told me that she loved me… I just looked at her in disbelief thinking… “she’s crazy”. She walked out of door and never came back again. Never said bye to Cole. I was heartbroken, shocked and in disbelief. I once again found myself a broken man, as the arrows that she shot into my heart landed in the same place as the ones that were there from the loss of my wife. I tried to move on with my life, but with two losses under my belt with in a few years time, I wasn’t doing very well. I felt used, and was emotionally spent… So I mourned the loss of two…. one was dead, the other might as well be, as there is not any communication between us by her choice….Both of these relationships ended sourly, and it all was out of my control. The next four months are only a blur, as I don’t even remember them. I sent her a bunch of emails begging her to come back, or expressing my anger, my pain. I got nothing. I saw her three times after that. Each time she was cold, and heartless. Saying mean things, or just looking at me with hate in her eyes. I could not believe that this was the same woman who told me all of her secrets, professed her love for me and for my son, the same woman that I had so much fun with, that made me laugh, that made love to me, and told me that I was special, exceptional, amazing, and that I was the man of her dreams. Many sociopaths are in it for the money, and can con someone life savings from them. In her situation, it was more about being entertained, wined and dined, travel, and sex. But, if she had wanted money, or a new car, geez.. I would have given her those things because I loved her and thought she loved us. She was so convincing. I had fallen in love with a woman who was loving and sweet and affectionate and giving, but it seemed that I spent a great deal of time trying to find that woman again. Where did she go? It was like she sold me a bill of goods and then did the old bait and switch.. But now I see, just what she really was. She often referred to herself as the “good” Lisa, and the “bad” Lisa. She had told me some chilling things about her past, and also said some disturbing things directed to me, such as “you may think I’m the woman of your dreams, but I can be your worst nightmare”

As the summer dragged on, I found myself in a deep depression, and my every thought was consumed by my pain, and what the reality of my life and what she did to me, and what I had allowed…… I tried to get answers….. did she love me?, did she love me and fall out of love?, did she just use me? does she even care? I know that I shouldn’t have sent all the emails and text messages, calling her roommate to try to get information… but.. I wanted to get closure, I wanted to get answers, I wanted to know …Why?… It was driving me insane… and I know that it looked to Lisa that I was the crazy person, by not just leaving her alone… it was like I couldn’t help myself….I was now acting like the crazy person… I was obsessed with her… my pain, my hurt, my loss… controlled my life. I hated it… and I wanted her to know it, I was angry that she seemed to just get away with breaking my heart, my spirit, my soul. I know from what she has told me about her previous relationships, that she played these games with many men in her life prior to me. I feel so lucky to have got out of it as cleanly as I did .The fact that after her departure, she exhibited no feeling no remorse, or guilt, or having empathy towards Cole and me always bothered me. I could not understand how someone who supposively loved us, could be so cruel and cold. I would have nightmares about this. In these dreams she would be trying to kill me or physically hurt me.I would wake up crying and shaking. I had let this trauma run my life. Today, I still see her driving along the road, because she lives just a few miles from me. I go 10 minutes out of my way just to not have to go by where she lives. I hate that she still have control and power over my emotions, and yet, I know she does not even think of my or my son not one bit, I’m sure she has moved on to other victims and probably has gone through several in just this past year.Losing Lisa was so much like losing Alyson all over again….. With both of them it was like… “I’m going to be mean to you, then I’m going to push you away, and then I’m out of here, and you can never see me or talk to me again.” I couldn’t date anyone, as I had nothing to give anyone… I gave it all to Lisa…. How could she do this to me? How could she do this to Cole? He loved her as well, and for him, she was the closest thing to a mother since his had died. THE QUESTION THAT HAUNTED ME EVERYDAY WAS….. WHY? It was during the late summer, when I hit rock bottom, that I turned to Christ. I started going to church, and praying.. praying a lot. Last November, I was baptized, and I am a Christian. My relationship with Christ has pulled me through and out of the despair that I had with Alyson and Lisa….. It’s been a slow process… I have to work at it everyday. So.. my heart got broken and the hard part was that as I looked back at that relationship and her, I now see many things that I didn’t want to see….she was superficial, with no depth. She was about herself, and her package. She did not value me, and my passion, my romantic heart, and she grew weary of it, as she placed no value on those things about me…10 months after Lisa left us, I had a major realization, I believe it was enlightenment from God. I have prayed everyday for months about receiving peace about Lisa. Last week, finally after all this time, I put 2+2 together after reading a book I got at Christmas about relationships. In the book it discusses about sociopaths… BINGO… I go .. and read everything I can… and then I found this site. I came to the discover, after reading about the traits of a person with a sociopath personality disorder, that Lisa suffers from this personality disorder. It felt like A great weight had been taken off of my shoulders because for all this time.. I didn’t understand why and how and beat myself up over losing her. I now know that it wasn’t at all.about me. It was her and her disorder..Now all the puzzle pieces fit and her behavior makes sense. She cannot, and is incapable to have any real human emotions. they ones that I have seem, such as love, compassion, guilt remorse were just fake, a imitation of what she has learned from others. It’s been nearly a year now since she left us, and thank god she did. I have not dated anyone during this period, and have focused on putting my life back together, and prioritizing my son. After reading so much information here and at other web sites and reading several “dating and relationship” books, I feel confident that I can make a healthy, wise decision when choosing a partner..I have learned about myself, and what I want, and what I will never put up with. I am so lucky I didn’t end up marrying this crazy woman, because she would have destroyed me. But I will never forget the pain and agony of loving someone who was nothing more then a illusion, and could never love anyone….Ever.

Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 10:35am

Hey Southernman!

I recognized so much of what I went through in your post. I was abandoned as well. I stopped the emailing and called only once because it was degrading to hear that there was no interest on the other end AT ALL any more. Therapy has helped me and it sounds like it has helped you. I keep going to my therapist for reinforcement. You are right. It WAS NOT you. It was her and her disorder. I believe once we understand that, we are more than half way there. I was deeply broken when I believed it was me who was responsible. It is a relief to understand that it was the psycho and their illness, and we just didn’t know their story.

I agree, we are lucky we did not move in with or marry these people — and we are lucky they do not try to re-contact us. Still, we were emotionally abused, no question and our precious time was wasted in a very big way.

On a positive note, five months out of the experience, I can say that I feel a definite sense of strength which I have gained. You are right. Our happiness comes from within first, and then we can attach to others. Not the other way around. It’s one thing to understand that intellectually, but quite another to truly FEEL it inside. Well, now, after the psycho, I get it. The horrible experience has (after much pain and introspection) BUILT my self-esteem. Ironic, but true.

I find myself standing up for the things I want out of a relationship much much more quickly now. It’s a 50/50 thing, and if I’m not getting my 50, well, then it’s not right, period.

I also see that I am the winner here. Strange to say, but true! The fact that I care about others and about myself and spend time making sense of what happened makes me a winner. Also, all the things the psycho accused me of turned out to be TRUE OF THEM. I am the one to be coveted, not them.

I visit this site almost daily. I am obsessed (not ridiculously – you all know what I mean) now with my own recovery and mental/emotional health. That comes first.

I am sorry to hear when people’s children have to go through this. Again, I guess therapy is the way to go for the parent and possibly the child. Hard enough for us adults to recover…

Knowing other people have gone through similar experiences reinforces my recovery. This site helps keep me from getting “soft” about the very disturbed freakazoid I got tangled up with!

Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 12:34pm

Liane Leedom, M.D. says:

To Southernman
Thank you for posting your story! I have three reactions to it.

First, Your story is important for us because women can also be sociopaths. I am working on a piece about this and you have given me an introduction.

Second, you have done a very great thing for the women who visit this site. Because sociopathy is so common in men, women who have been involved with sociopaths come to believe that good men like you only exist on TV and in the movies. HEAR THIS LADIES EXPECT A MAN TO BE LOVING AND EMPATHETIC THIS IS NORMAL MALE BEHAVIOR!

Third, balance in pleasure is important for balance in life. That is what you maintain when you keep your spiritual focus. None of us know why these relationships happen to us, but it is up to us to learn and grow from the experience.

Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 2:49pm

Dr. Leedom and LAMan………

Thank you both for your kind words. I really only scratched the surface in my story about her behavior. There were many things that she shared with me, during our time together that now, I see as big time red flags… but of course, she wouldn’t do those things to me… I was “special.” I have wondered why after all these months, why I could not move on, why I was consumed by her and the relationship, why the pain was so intense. I must share that I can honestly say that having this happen to me was more painful then losing my wife to death. I think on some levels, it’s because she did these things to me emotionally with a smile on her face, with concern, and love in her eyes. Using projection, manipulation, and just plain cruelty. She was able to make me think and feel like I was the person who needed help with my “emotions” When I think of all the hoops I felt I had to jump through to keep the relationship. when I think of the sabotage she did to it. It would seem like when ever things were going well, or a important date would be approaching, like Christmas, Valentines Day, my birthday, a romantic weekend planned for us… she would suddenly create drama, to make me feel like everything was in jeopardy…. Of course, I didn’t see those things at the time, and also, since my only marriage had also been unhealthy, I came to think that being in a relationship was 50 % good and 50% bad…. It was just the way it would be. My goal in this lifetime is to have a healthy, fulfilling relationship with a woman. I know what that looks like on paper, but have never experienced that in my life. All these months, I have wanted her back. My self esteem was shattered. Before I met her, I was a confidant man, who had no problem meeting women, but after her departure, getting close to someone and trusting them was unthinkable. I have come a long ways in this 10 months, and finding this site, and now knowing that there isn’t something wrong with me, and that it wasn’t my fault…. has made such a big difference. I still am saddened when I think about the woman that I thought I loved… she was perfect, and for some reason, it was almost like I was under some kind of spell…. because, I now just cannot believe that I would have put up with the craziness. I could never understand her ability to totally delete my son and me from her life as if we never existed. I now understand. It was provedto be the closure that I have been searching for. There is one thing I will always miss… and that was the sex… for me, it was spiritual because of my love for her… for her, it was all a game, and in some ways she raped me with my consent.

Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 4:13pm

Wow, there are so many commonalities here! The sex was amazing in my situation, also. I used to miss it. Not any more. You won’t always miss it — you know why?? Because I realized that I was 50% responsible for the hot sex, and I don’t believe I’m a psycho so that means hot sex is possible with non-psychos because it was possible with me (and with you from what you say). So, therefore, you’ll find it with someone else – who is NOT a disordered personality.

My psycho also would make everything out to be my fault, too, and I bought it for awhile. The arguments were pretty convincing because he took everything I confided to him and used that to nail me!

No more, brother! And you shouldn’t buy it for yourself, either! We WERE abused, you are right – but we got out!

Go back to being the confident guy you remember you were before – only now, you are even stronger because you have seen the nasty side of life – and you know it doesn’t have to be that way!

Just move towards that. Good women will find you. They exist. Evidence: Seems to be plenty of them on this site

Tuesday, 30 January 2007 @ 3:25am

will be okay says:

Wow Southernman, Our stories are similar. I too am a widow, my late husband died suddenly at 33 years old, leaving me with 2 kids to raise. I had been alone for 5 years, dated a few but nothing very serious until this seemingly perfect man came into my life. I agree with you, dealing with this is SO much harder than dealing with my husbands death. My daughter was only 3 when her dad died, sociopath knew he was the 1st man I was sure of enough to bring into her life, she adored him and we played family with his little boy, for a year and a half (my other child is much older). It ended very abrubtly when I caught him cheating, he never once mentioned concern for me, or the kids. La Man is right… Knowing what you were dealing with is half of it, now you can begin to heal. For me it has only been 5 months, but I’m doing much better, because of lovefraud and MSN PSYCHOPATH which is a wonderful support group. Good Luck to you.

Friday, 2 February 2007 @ 2:53am

Hey will be ok…….

I think that being a widow/er made us more vulnerable. The loneliness can be overbearing. I tried very hard to fill that void in my life for both me and my son. By the time I met my P, I had actually stopped trying so hard, so when she came into our life, I really thought that she was there for a reason, a answered prayer. Little did I know that the reason she was there was not what I had hoped for. Like you, we played “family” with her, and like I had stated above, that was the thing I wanted most desperately. that sense of family. My P knew of my pain from my loss, she also knew just how badly I wanted that family unit, and she knew I’d almost stop at nothing to regain that. For the first 6 months of my relationship with my P, there wasn’t a single misstep. Everything seemed perfect. We loved her, she loved us. And because I had wanted this one piece of my life to be complete, I overlooked things that I shouldn’t have. I agree with you and LAMan that now that I know just what I was dealing with in her, the truth has really set me free, and I can feel my true healing begin. For months, I have tried to connect the dots, to try to understand, and I just couldn’t. It was beyond my comprehension, as to how a woman could do this to me knowing of the pain I had gone through with my wife’s death, and further, how could she have done this to my son.. a little boy, who loved her and opened up to her like she was his mother. I still can see my P holding his hand, sitting on the couch reading to each other, her tucking him in at night. It makes me want to cry, because I now know that it was all not real. With knowledge come healing and peace, and I am on the road to that, but also with knowledge comes power. This will never happen to me and my son again. Thank you will be ok…. My heart goes out to you and your children. But we both “will be ok”… ;^)

Saturday, 3 February 2007 @ 10:20am

Fighter says:

Even years later we see victims still struggling with this. It may have been someone they just met or had known for years. Trying to make sense of these predators is futile yet, as normal caring people we need to make sense in order to heal.

Great post!!

Wednesday, 7 February 2007 @ 7:59am

Mickey says:

After four years with a sociopath that ended with him assaulting me and BITING me until I bled ala Mike Tyson and Hannibal Lector, I am still trying to figure out what happened to me, how did I allow years of mind manipulation to the point that I was so confused that I had no idea what was real or not real. Every red flag was resolved with a convincing response with what I now realize were pure lies, extreme lies. It baffles me that I actually lived through this. I wonder though if it is just me, am I a target for sociopaths. Is he dating women now who can identify it early on, or are they falling for the same incredible charm and affection he gave to me. I once told him that I just didn’t understand him….and he told me that he is not easily understood. It was perhaps a rare moment of clarity for him, but not for me. So, in the end I found out he spent four years of ongoing non stop dating on his tennis nights, on his nights at work, when he had to get his car fixed etc, and the unimaginable…as a man who pretended to have multiple identities on websites for large women luring them to meet with him, promising them a loving relationship, and many other incomprehensible behaviors. It still doesn’t seem real. I am getting better, but I am not sure I will ever recover.

Wednesday, 7 February 2007 @ 11:28pm

It’s been three weeks now since I made the connection that my ex girlfriend was a p/n. After 11 months of crying, confusion, obsessing, depression, self blaming, weight loss, trying to get on with my life, not being able to focus, worrying about if I was losing my mind, and just plain being miserable and sad, I’m happy to say these past three weeks have been the best in nearly a year. My entire perspective about that crazy relationship, and mainly about her has changed so dramatically. I am starting to feel my worth again, and after reading so much here, and at the MSN sites, things are so much clearer, and all the questions, the doubts, the why’s and the how’s have been answered. For all this time, I just simply could not understand why I could not get over her, especially when she was so cruel and cold hearted. Every night for these past three weeks, I have read for hours the posts, the info, at the MSN Narcissistic Personality Disorder Group, here at Love fraud, MSN Friends and Family Affected by AsPD Group , Dr. Sam Vaknin’s site for the study of Narcissism. It has been truly enlightening, and I know for sure that I will not be a target for another one of these cold hearted women in the future. I have grown so much over these past 11 months. I became a Christian, have not dated, and have tried to heal from this emotional trauma. My friends and family have been very concerned about me these past months. they kept telling me to get over it, or move on, and wondered why I keep it so close to the surface of my existence. I know that unless you have encountered one of these crazy people, you have no idea. I look forward to the nest relationship I enter with a woman, but I do know two things. I can love again, and I’ll never love again with the innocence of a child like I did nearly two years ago when she came into my life. It will be spring soon here in the South, and like the flowers that bloom, and the leaves on the trees, I feel a rebirth, and a resurrection of not just the old me, but the new and improved, and the WISER me. Thanks to all here. This site has done what it was intended to do… inform, and warn.

Thursday, 8 February 2007 @ 5:36pm

Hey Southernman!
Glad to hear you are feeling better!
2 reactions to your last post:

1) If you’re like me, it might take some more time to process what has happened to you. I found myself regurgitating every detail, especially after the “Aha!” of figuring out what the psycho was about. Every tiny memory suddenly had a new meaning and the re-evaluation took several months – granted, I felt better during those months, but the “eye-opening” went deeper than I ever expected. It’s a good thing, however.

Only now, after almost 6 months, do I find myself going for long periods without giving the person a single thought and then realizing that I had forgotten them for awhile (victory!)

2) you may never love again with the same innocence, but the real you will return. You’ll be wiser, yes, but you haven’t lost your innocence. Not really. I don’t think I have. That’s how we stay young

Friday, 9 February 2007 @ 12:32pm

dee says:

Thank you so much for posting your experiences!

Like southernman I have been reading here a lot and each time I find another “aha” moment that releases more of the answers to the “whys” and heals me.

But for me one of the best things is finding the self esteem and confidence that had become so destroyed, have started recovering so quickly from all the generous people here who share their stories. Also in part, its the self discovery process wherein before I kept asking myself why I was unworthy, why I was to blame for all of the mess, why I was so deeply depressed after we talked and still the answers to all the basic needs I expressed were they were my own over-reactions, my over emotional mental state, my insanity even, that although he was able to manipulate me in believing all of these about myself, there was also an answer inside myself. I discovered that I carried the seeds of vulnerability and lack of self esteem from most likely a narissistic parenting that make me an easy target for him.

So, the best part of the healing is actually that I have come out of it, finally after 10+ years, a better person, stronger than before, less afraid, and filled with a more realistic sense of idealism, and especially a true sense of self esteem and confidence. AND as ironic as it sounds, no one else understands this but I’ll be people here do, a sense of gratitude to him because IF I hadn’t have had the experience, I may not have found my way to who I am now, and in the future.

Thank you all! I’ll never be able to express my true gratitude to all of you lovely people here!

Saturday, 10 February 2007 @ 12:31pm

Hey Dee….
Like most here, I too carried the seeds of vulnerability. Losing a spouse, and the aftermath of that expirence, put me in a position where I was desperate to regain some sense of normalcy in my life, which was having that family unit, meaning a wife and a mother in our lives. Like you, going through this expirence has taught me so many things, not just about sociopaths and narsissits, but about my own needs and the way I had gone about and looked at relationships. I truly believe that God allowed my crazy to come into my life for many reasons, which one of them was to teach me about myself. I can see now with much clarity, the mistakes I made in not setting or having boundries, and allowing someone to control a relationship. Many have asked here about being able to love again. I feel that in some ways, I will be able to love in a much fuller, healthy, more well rounded way the next time. One reason is that I know myself so much better, and second, I know the warning signs of unhealthiness, and will not allow those who try to push that kind of agenda in my life. I also know that I will love and respect myself in a whole new way, and will never sacrifice my happiness for someone who does not have my best interest at heart. I am on a internet dating site now. I don’t date often, in fact I have not met anyone from there as of yet, and I respond to few who write to me for obvious reasons, but I would like to share with you all here my written essay. I think it shows that I know exactly what I want, and also that my standards are set high, but hey, why not? Don’t let the romanticness of my words fool you, I will use my new tools very wisely in weeding out any potential predators, or those who bring negetivity into my life. I do look at love and relationships in a positive way, and I would never want to live with a guarded heart, but I can say that I do not have a “hungry” heart anymore. My son and I deserve the very best, so I’m in no hurry…. I know that there are wonderful, healthy people out there who would make great partners. I hope one day to meet one. So, here is my written essay………………………………………….

I would like to have a remarkable woman in my life. I have a wonderful life, and I am blessed with a great son, and I’m ready to share with someone very special. At 44, I don’t want to compromise what I want out of a relationship, and what I would like in a prospective partner and I feel that I’m entitled to a healthy, fulfilling relationship and so are you. And while I’m not in a hurry to marry, I want that possibility. I’m looking for a true, romantic, love that lasts a lifetime. Does such a desirable thing exist? I know that it can’t be bought, stolen, or made to happen. It will take work and commitment, but it also “just simply is”… That’s the hard part.

Like many here, I’ve made my share of mistakes in past relationships. Lost someone I loved more then a few times, and each time it got harder. Had my heart broken more then once, and broke a few as well. I’ve learned my lessons the hard way, but I have no regrets, or bitterness. In fact, I’m so thankful to have lived and loved, lost and learned. Self growth cannot happen without pain, so I made it a opportunity to grow as a man, and I’m thrilled to have evolved into the man I always wanted to be, and into that man God always intended for me to be. I grasp the “Big Picture” in life, and know it’s not about us. It’s about the heart. I’m looking for a woman that captivates me. Someone who thinks outside the box, someone who is different from the rest. Although this romantic/dreamer side of me is a real part of me, I am a grounded man, a realist and live in the real world. So, I want to do this the right way this time. I want to get to know you, I’m in no hurry. I want to see the real you and the gift that lies within.

So, Who Is She?

She will be tender, loving, fun, affectionate, and honest. With a kind, caring and giving heart. An exceptional woman. Someone who wants a committed relationship, and is willing to work at it with that in mind. She will be emotionally available, and has learned from her past, but not be limited by it, so she can and will love me like her heart has never been broken. She loves children, romance, and togetherness, and gives as much as she takes. A woman with good morals and values, and with a enthusiasm, and adventure for life. She would be strong, loyal, determined, and independent without being controlling or selfish. She will be intelligent, and keep me on my toes and challenge me with her depth and her sharp wit. She’ll bring out the very best in me, and place her hand upon my heart. And I in return, will fight for her with all of my being, and give to her, with deep pleasure, the essence of my life, my strength, and the two greatest gifts I could ever bestow to anyone… my undying love, and devotion, and the center, the core of my being .. my heart.

She will be beautiful in my eyes, and when I’m with her, I’ll take her all in, because I don’t want to miss a thing. She will be my confidant, my best friend, my lover, my inspiration, my life partner till my final breath. My love and delight for her will grow and deepen with each passing year, and continue for all the remaining years of my life. Her eyes will see into my soul, her voice will nurture and comfort it. She will stand beside me, sharing with me, our life adventure through the best and the worst of times. She will have a life spark that shines like the brightest star on a mid-winters night. And her love for God, and for me and my son will run as deep and true as the widest, bluest ocean.
When I think about her during our time apart, I will long for her touch and yearn to hear her laughter, as it soothes my heart. And when we are together, I will take her hand in mine, and look into her eyes and know it’s really meant to be… It will be God’s miracle gift, His wonderous plan, intended for us both… always and forever. Our lives will be full of love, happiness, joy, adventure, and promise, and ever most importantly, Peace.

I will always believe dreams do come true

Sunday, 11 February 2007 @ 9:13am

southernman,

Great ad. I wish you lots of luck with it.

Sunday, 11 February 2007 @ 9:26am

Dear Southernman,

I too wish you the best. Perhaps though you can meet a woman recommended by someone you trust like your pastor/minister or a friend. The internet is very dangerous. There are matchmaking internet sites that extensively screen but still remember even NASA didn’t get it right.

Sunday, 11 February 2007 @ 3:45pm

Lol, the NASA reference made me smile. On a completely 180 degree turnabout note — “Taxi Driver” was on TV two nights ago. The viewing experience was a bit different for me this time. My psycho didn’t shoot a roomful of people (I hope), but Deniro’s performance included a number of incidental behaviors that I recognized, especially in his scenes alone – for example – the calculating and serious meticulous planning facial expressions. I caught my psycho in a restaurant when he didn’t know I was looking at him, and his facial expression was one I had never seen. Deeply methodical and serious, as if he were planning some great procedure.

Freaky…but there you go…

Monday, 12 February 2007 @ 12:53pm

sleeplessinAR says:

SouthernMan429…I could have written your story myself. It’s soooo similar. I was charmed, fell in love, gave everything until I lost myself in him. The departure from your tale is that he wanted to get married…very fast. Should have been a red flag, I know now. I was with him for 2 years and felt everything you described. My intuition told me that despite his reassurances, he wouldn’t be in my life long. My intuition screamed at me many times, but I ignored it. I gave my money, my time, my energy, my heart, my soul – everything. He took it all and gave less, and less, and less. I am embarassed at how little I settled for, actually.
On January 24 he pushed my boundaries (again), picked a fight (again), told me I was crazy, etc. and – disappeared. He left in my car, with my keys, money, debit card, checkbook, even my internet router and phone! He left me and my 5 year old son sitting in our home at 10pm with nothing, and not even realizing he was gone and never coming back.
I had to borrow money and take a taxi to my friend’s house, who happened to have an extra vehicle. I found an old cell phone to text message on…otherwise my son and I would have been sitting there with no car, no money, and no way to contact anyone.
Anyway, after frantically looking everywhere for him; calling his mom in a panic; filing a missing persons report….I was contacted by the police 3 days later. They said he was fine; was out of state; and had requested they not divulge his whereabouts to me.
I felt all the panic and gut-wrenching anquish that you described. I talked to his mom for the first week, but he refused to speak to me. After that, she stopped answering the phone when I would call. I KNEW in my heart for a while that he was a sociopath, and after the first 2 weeks I was able to move a bit through the pain to realize it’s best this way. However, at this point I have no idea where he is; why his mom won’t take my calls; and if I’m ever going to see my car again. I was left holding the bag for all the bills.
I have been awestruck by how someone just completely discards other people…me and the children. He just tossed us away like yesterday’s garbage and didn’t look back. He hasn’t tried once to contact me.
It’s the most surreal thing I’ve ever been through, and no matter how hard I’ve tried to make sense of him, I just can’t.
I decided to grieve the man I loved…and treat it as a death b/c he never even existed. I fell for the facade; the game; the spiderweb he so skillfully wove for me.
I beat myself up for grieving a man who could laugh in my face while I was bearing my soul to him and sobbing my heart out.
That whole devalue/discard cycle is excruciating and hits us like a freight train.
All I can do is work on me. I can understand why I was a willing participant in my own torture; why I couldn’t just leave; why I ignored all the red flags, etc. Counseling and Al-Anon have helped tremendously – and sights like this.
Hearing about the experiences of others allows me to be even firmer in my resolve that IT WASN’T ME.
Now I’m just working on taking care of – ME.
I wish everyone here peace and comfort.

Saturday, 17 February 2007 @ 9:50pm

I forgot to mention that what I like most about these posts is the idea that our sociopaths are our best teachers. In reality, they did us HUGE favors – by opening our eyes.
I know for me, my greatest fears were: 1. being abandoned, 2. being alone.
Well, lo and behold..they both happened, but I’m still standing.
I realize (now) that my ideas about “love” come from trying to “rescue” my alcoholic father from the age of 6. I’ve played the role of “rescuer” my whole life, never focusing on myself. I’ve been addicted to relationships that were tumultous, unpredictable, and unstable…even passing up a GREAT guy for my sociopath.
So now, thanks to my sociopath, I am finally (at the age of 37) facing my fears, understanding what they are, and learning that it’s okay to take care of ME, and that I cannot rescue/fix/control anyone. Nor should any of us have to completely lose ourselves in our partners or become shells of our former selves.
Thanks to everyone for sharing. It’s educational and comforting at the same time.

Saturday, 17 February 2007 @ 10:01pm

sleeplessinAR……….

Like you, I am embarrassed at how little I settled for from her after the devaluation had begun. I had made it so easy for her.. as all she had to do was show up and I took care of all the rest. She would do her “time” with us, then leave for several days until she needed more supply, then she would return. I would wait for her, sometimes not so patiently. Of course it was all such a far cry from the way it started. Like your crazy, my crazy took and took and took and gave less and less as time went by. What baffles me is that I took it, I accepted it, I let this behavior continue. It would seem that when I would be at the end of my rope with her, she would “give” just enough to keep me involved, like some extra good sex, or doing something nice for my son. For me, it was like I continued to search for that woman who was there in the beginning… who couldn’t get enough of me, who supported me, who “loved” me. I know now she never really existed, and that in it’s self has been painful. LAMan was right, I have regurgitated every aspect of that relationship, as I see it all through new eyes. Every little comment, action, has a new and sinister meaning. My days continue to be both good, and then bad. The sadness of knowing that I was nothing more then supply, and then grieving someone who wasn’t really there, and being left with a hole in one’s life that doesn’t make sense, filled with shame and pain. Slowly…. ever so slowly I crawl out of the darkness, sometimes taking two steps back, but then to take big steps forward… the process…. repairing me, seeing my gifts…. the tug of war of emotions….. I am a hard worker…. I am working hard to recapture my essence, my self love… to take back what I unselfishly gave away so innocently to someone with evil in her core.

Sunday, 18 February 2007 @ 9:10am

Same situation for me…psycho took more and more and gave just enough to keep me coming back. I kept looking for that person I had initially thought I loved. Even after they abandoned me, I tried a few communications. Like someone said in one of the other posts – I had just been “deleted” from his life.

My shrink compares this to emotional rape. I scoffed at first, but come to think of it, I agree. The violation is that serious. To be targeted and used in such a way.

I agree that this site helps speed recovery immensely! I am much better now. I also agree that the involvement I had with the psycho made me a much stronger and I think, better person. I will tell you that the long-term relationship I had cheated on with the psycho in this, my one and only affair, is thriving now. Reason: I recognize and value the real love that I had lost sight of. The affair with the psycho may end up being the catalyst to saving my real relationship. I am fighting to save my long-term relationship now and the efforts have been working so far!

Although–I don’t want the psycho to be “thanked” for that. Only gratitude I have is for the experience I had with the psycho and what I have learned from it. The psycho can live in his freaky little world for all eternity for all I care!

Thursday, 22 February 2007 @ 3:05am

judy cox says:

i am reading all of these stories and crying..still in alot of agony at times…shattered..i am in therapy now but i am forever changed…my story..briefly…i only knew him for 2 months..i joined a Christian gym…i am sure you have never heard of one..i hadn’t either..but anyway..he was the manager..he wore a cross printed on his shirt…Bible verses on the wall…nice music and atmosphere..he didn’t own the gym…he was hired off the street..he told me he had 2 business degrees and spoke 5 languages..this was a temporary job since his wife had died 3 years before…after 18 months of marriage…he said he had a girlfriend for a year and a half after that and she was just horrible and he was treated so badly…he totally went after me…romance like i had never seen..polite..charming..prayed with me and for me daily…held my hand every chance he had..took me out to eat…told me God had been preparing me for this all my life and if i would just give him a chance he would ”love me as Christ loves the church”..and so on..he told me he had never tasted alcohol…i honestly thought he should have a church and be preaching…he seemed almost perfect…and he loved me so much….i thought…..so i married him…and moved all my furniture into a condo we bought together…he wanted my money put into his bank..and 75,000 he talked me into letting him invest…i never saw it again….in 3 months he was not working…he was a binge drinking alcoholic…he would either be praying for me…calling me ”baby doll” or ‘’sweetheart” or you..M.F.B…..and worse.. when i said i was leaving he said ”leaving was not an option”..that he would kill me and kill himself…at times he ordered me to sit and not move and not speak…finally when it was really coming to a head..he told me he had found a job in another state and he wanted us to have a new start..a new home…find a church…and he promised to stop drinking..i reluctantly went…a mistake…he put my things into storage…took the money and moved it to a new acct… hid the cash…i still don’t know where it is….he took me to a friend’s empty home…started drinking…there was no job…in a few days he beat me up badly and abandoned me….i was without food for 3 days..i called 911..got help….made it back to my home state…i have never seen him again…he refused all calls from me or my attorney..i found i was the 4th he has done this to..the wife that died..he overdosed while she had cancer so she was terminal but the family knew he did this…he took 200,000 from her acct. which was for her son..and left her mom 80,000 in credit card debt…he robbed and abandoned his first wife also….he has no conscience….this man who said i was like”his breath and blood” has never been seen again..he stole my furniture and all my money…AND i did a background check…i wish i had when i met him..HE IS A SEX OFFENDER!!!.so i am pretty devastated..i just cry alot…can’t work right now..can’t sleep..very depressed..have felt suicidal..i am in therapy….i will make it but i am in such pain.

Saturday, 24 February 2007 @ 7:21pm

hi..it’s judy again…i just got up for a new day after writing to you last night…to clarify…i only knew him for 2 months before i married him..we were married a year and a half…i was only with him a year when he disappeared..left me in another state..not knowing exactly where i was…the judge in my state has granted me a divorce after he didn’t show for court..but i got my name back ..but … he broke my spirit, took my money and things..hurt my body..and i will never trust wide open as i once did…i shouldn’t have trusted like that anyway..but he was very convincing…sociopaths tune in and listen for who you are…i was at a vulnerable time in my life and wanting a new start…he told me i was the greatest and most wonderful woman he had ever met..he told me i was the most beautiful woman he had ever seen…you know what is really bad? the most fulfilled i ever felt ..the most i ever laughed…the most i ever felt truly cherished..and it wasn’t even real…..so the grief has been over the top…i understand so many of these postings..thank you for reading mine..

Sunday, 25 February 2007 @ 7:20am

southernman….you really sound awesome…the kind of man i hope to be with…it is wonderful to hear that your heart is still wanting love….it seems all on this site have suffered but were really only wanting to love and be loved…this was my first encounter with a love relationship with such a con…a sociopath robs you of what they can…wounds you but thank God we are still here…and good people!

Sunday, 25 February 2007 @ 1:44pm

Thank you Judy, and I wish you the best in your recovery and in life………….

~Rick~

Monday, 26 February 2007 @ 10:45pm

hi rick…thank you for posting…please stay in touch…i am beginning to see the light in my life again but i have times of deep sadness..i cry..then i just think about it all…i can’t believe what happened in my life..i always thought i could read people better …i am a Psych RN….and i knew all about ‘’sociopaths”…but when you are the victim..oopps you don’t even realize it…you think they are for ”real”…this site has helped me alot!
thank you all again! judy

Wednesday, 28 February 2007 @ 9:30am

robxsykobabe says:

Im having a very difficult time these past few days and Ive slept minimally.

Here is my story…as Ive only shared bits and pieces. My ex and I met on a dating website. We met at a mutually convenient place, and upon seeing him for the first time in person, I was in awe! He was the perfect looking guy, casual, with a tall stature, a beautiful face and such charm. We went into a restaurant but didnt eat. We sat at the bar, and I ordered a drink. He did not, saying he doens’t drink anymore. That was fine with me. We engaged in conversation, and at one point, I had asked him if he had ever been in prison. Why that came to my mind, I dont know…but it did. He said no, and the night continued. We left the restaurant and went to a park near my house and talked all night long. He told me of the person he is and what he stands for and what it is that he wants out of life. He painted a picture that seemed ‘perfect’ in a ‘perfect world’ with ‘perfect expectations”. I told him that night that there had to be something more to him, as NO ONE has things that tightly wrapped up in a package. He assured me this was ‘just him’.

The red flags began shortly after we met. The following weekend he wanted to see me, however, I was not sure I wanted to persue a relationship with him…my intuition told me to slow down. I told him I was busy that weekend. Little did I know, he was already on his way to my house! He became angry with me stating ‘but Im already half way there’. He also told me that we couldnt see each other any other time that weekend, as he was having his son. He forgot though that he already told me it wasnt his weekend to have his son. He simply wanted what he wanted and wasnt concerned about me.

The next couple of weekends we saw each other and things were going well. He wrote me a lengthy email at about week 4 telling me of his mysterious ‘past’ that consisted of him being in prison for 26 months, and how he was ‘only’ trying to save his brother from his drug dealer. I was floored and sick to my stomache at the same time. I cried to him, asking him to tell me it was a lie and that it really wasnt true. He did not. The emails and phone calls came heavily at that time, as it seemed as if he was begging me to stay with him…as he was a ‘changed’ person. I fought with myself for quite some time about the choice I was about to make. I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt, as people do change and become better people.

That may have been my demise. We dated for 4 months and on Christmas Eve Night, he dropped a bomb on me. He had a daughter whom he had never met or saw, but was paying child support for. WHAT!!! I knew of his son, but a daughter?

I was, again, supportive and understanding of what he told me had happened. His daughters mother and him met at a bar, got drunk, had sex, and she got pregnant, only SHE didnt want to have anythign to do with HIM and got back together with her exboyfriend. At that time, he swore no other shoe was gonna drop. This was it…no more surprises. I will admit, I was pissed that it took him 4 months to tell me this, although, in my distorted mind, I thought “wow, this must have been hard for him to tell me’.

We dated for the next year and a half with nothing happening except absolute bliss. We got along great, talked about moving in together, getting married, all the good stuff. In February of 2008, we had an arguement. Over what, I dont even remember. We didnt talk for about a week. We had a wedding to go to on the 16th, and we did speak via email. He was demanding of explainations regardign why I didnt contact him…although he was mad at me. Another red flag. Things got patched up and we went to the wedding, had a great time, and things were on the mend again. Until March…

I found womens phone numbers in his phone (which I never looked in, except for this time) and had my friend call them. One of them happened to be from his long lost love…you know, the one he could NEVER stay away from, but they couldnt EVER be together? They had been talking during the tiem we werent. I confronted him about it, and he lied to my face! I gave him a chance to explain and only after he realized I wasnt backing down did he fess up…during the week we werent talking, he and the ex “met up” at the gym…but nothting happened. He said if anything it gave him some closure to their relationship and he realized he really loved me and wanted to be with me. Ahhhh…here began the blatant lies!

Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 1:38pm

From March until September, again, things went well. He and I were getting closer (as that was his excuse to meet up with the ex…he didnt feel close to me anymore). In August, we went on a family vacation to Wisconsin. He and I got pulled over in WI for speeding. The cop came to our car and asked my ex if he had been to Missouri as there was a warrant out for someones arrest that looked just like him. My ex, of course didnt know what he was talkign about. The cop let us go and we thought nothing of it other than it was strange. About 2 miles down the road, at our destination, a detective and sherrif was waiting for us…ON MY FAMILY VACATION! My boyfriend had been in Missouri 9 years ago and earned himself a DUI…that never got taken care of…as well as a charge of forging checks and having drug paraphenalia. Remember, he had already gone to PRISON and upon his release, told me ‘everything was taken care of…clean slate”.

He was arrested and put in jail. I calle his mom to see what she knew and she knew more than I thought. It all some how ‘came back to her’ at that point and she began explaining some things to me. Mind you, I had dated him at this point for 2 years…and NO ONE in his family had given ANY information about ANY OF HIS PAST…I was totally in the blind.

So, August 08 to March of 2009 he was ‘trying’ to get this straightened out…but repeatedly ran into road blocks…or so he said. In March of 09, he got pulled over (after askign me to buy him a motorcycle and beign told no…he decided he didnt want to see me that weekend), and arrested AGAIN for driving on a revoked license (due to the DUI in Missouri that he got caught for in WI). His car was taken, license taken and he had AT LEAST a year of no driving. Mind you, he didnt want to see me that weekend cause he was mad…I had ‘devistated him’ by telling him ‘no’.

In September of 2008…after the arrest in WI, I had found texts on his phone that were sent to “GUS” saying “I cant stop thinking about your kisses”. He SWORE they were sent to me, but I just didnt get them. He couldnt talk his way ouf of this, so he packed his things and left…keys and all…for the third time in our relationship.

Im so sick to my stomache right now thinking about all this…I need a break…please, any pep talks would be helpful right now…

Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 1:53pm

one_step_at_a_time says:

robxsykobabe,

it’s okay.

you were conned, just like everyone else here. and can you imagine the numbers of people who are conned who never find there way here? ….took me weeks of googling to find a net resource, to use the term ‘love fraud’…to find my way here.

the details of the con matter in as much as they show the path of destruction that we have walked down – and i think they are part of the picture we look at to find our way home to ourselves.

it’s okay; this seems like a detox or a cleansing…and things hurt on the way out, but it seems like they ARE ON THE WAY OUT, NOT IN. and THIS is good!

Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 2:46pm

style1 says:

Okay… a pep talk is what you want..
I am gong tgo ask you.. WHY DID YOU CONTINUE SEEING HIM after the first time that he was coming over and you told him NO! And he got mad and said that he was already half way there…
Look into yourself and answer that question….

That is what I have been doing… why at the first few red flag did I keep dating the creep….?

Figure that out and heal yourself..

also anyone that states that they never drink yet mets you in a bar and you have nothing to eat.. what is that? A date? Why not meet a hamburger joint….
that was a red flag to me right there….

ask yourself.. why you kept with him after finding out that he had a daughter..? It was clear that he was not being truthful about his life….

Look into yourself… and heal .. get away from him and forget about him.. he sounds like the type that could get you into real trouble..

workout, take a hot bath.. go see a movie… be with friends.. but get this man out of your life.. he is poison..
and continue to read posts on here..

Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 3:43pm

I am asking myself why and how did I allow myself to be conned?

That is what I want to know down to the very deepest part of myself…

When I get to the bottom of that, it will never be able to occur again.. I will see the red flags and when I do, I will not hesitate to exit.. say no… say go away! This is not what I want in my life. You are not what I want in my life. GOODBYE!

Instead of cutting them all the slack in the world.. and they keep bringing in new issues…

Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 4:07pm

Renewedhope says:

I have come to a conclusion that I think we have to look at sociopathy in the exact same way as one has to pedophilia. The victim must be removed from the preditor’s grasp and kept away at all costs! If not the preditor will devour us and mentally destroy us forever. In both cases too, the scars are there. We must break the cycle!

Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 11:18am

lostingrief says:

style1:
i think we were all simply in too deep. too attached, too hopeful for the right outcomes, too under the spath-spell.
we projected on to them our own expectations of love. but nothing could ’stick.’
seems that when i stopped trying to understand it intellectually … and believe me the questions have no end, still … is when a great ‘letting to’ occured.
we didn’t allow anything. we were trusting and loyal is all. and when the spath-shit hit the fan, the disbelief perhaps kept our jaws on the ground longer than it should have.
my trust is shredded right now. and that’s okay.
being alone has allowed me to undo my belief in the lies. he was a master; they all are.
but i’m not sure we really need to endlessly believe that we ‘allowed’ it all to happen. we allowed what we saw as ‘love’ to come in; and THEY twisted and turned it like a knife. when we finally realized it was just a knife, we all ran for the hills. to ‘allow’ it means never moving on.
maybe we need to not understand every little sick anomaly. maybe we’re now more intuitive than we think, and just don’t yet trust that, either.
i dunno.

Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 11:51am

B_G says:

So much good information on here. It really helped me reading it. It’s so late here I can’t go into my story, but I look forward to coming back and reading and posting. My best wishses to everyone.

Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 11:50pm

ErinBrock says:

BG:
Looking forward to your ‘arrival’ here at LF.
Get some rest…..we are here!

Welcome!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 12:17am

Rosie says:

Lostingreif
I really liked your post. I think we do need to trust our intuition and from what I have read it seems some of us had a niggling feeling early on when we first got to know them but they are ‘masters’ at pandering to our fragile egos by making us feel so ’special’ and tapping into our desires

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:42am

blinded says:

i am still trying to recover from a sociopath, and i thought i had. i am now in a new relationship, but still find myself struggling from this mans abandonment. i feel like a horrible person because i love my new partner, but dont know why the sociopath still has a part of me.

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:50am

shabbychic says:

blinded, as the esteemed writer Oxy would say, we are on a journey of healing, so once in a while you will hit a pot hole, or perhaps veer off the road a bit, but just embrace who you are, don’t beat yourself up over your struggles, they will pass, with each day they will pass a little bit more. Don’t feel like a horrible person, you went through so much, it sounds like you are doing very well!! A new partner to love, I think it’s wonderful. I guess a part of us wonders how we could be so hurt by someone but still long for them sometimes. Just let the feelings flow over you, and let them go. Just say “I release this feeling of anger” or I release this feeling of abandonment”. We have all gone through, or are currently going through (like me) exactly what’s happening to you. For me it all seems to calm down, I’m ok, then he slithers back for a sneaky “hello” I wasn’t expecting, which can set me back, but at least not back to square one. I know all this will pass, it will for me, and I know it will for you too!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 5:13am

What did SHE want From me?
Good question!
In 27 years I am sure it changed. When she first met me and learned I wanted her.. Obviously she wanted a houseboy to do everything she didn’t want to do…along with another person’s money. She goes through that S mood cycle like Grant went through Richmond. What ever she faked to me in the beginning.. love, friendship.. never lasted longer than a month or more before that Mrs Hyde persona took over. And then watch out! Everything came out of her like Linda Blair’s green pea soup in the Exorcist! Everything like laying next to her at night and whispering those passionate words” I HATE YOU!” literally behind my back while I slept. To verbally insulting me to my face. Then the “OUT” times where she wasn’t in my life. Back to the friendship stage, where I kept my distance from her but still longed to be with her.(WTF! WHY?) Then me saying something for her to cross that line again from friendship at a distance to I love you and “I wondered why we never got together” Bull crap. Then watching that cycle happen all over again. In 27 years that happened 3 different times.You would think I would know better! And I really wondered this last time.. If you really loved me at all..AT ALL… Why couldn’t she respect the boundaries of friendship and let it go at that? But NO! She had to lie to me that she was DYING soon. Knowing I would expose my feelings to her again..and then running with it again. That was when I realized that this entire relationship for 27 years was just a big GAME with her. That she couldn’t even respect me as a friend. She had to lie about something as moral as death to try to manipulate me all over again!
Thank God I did the homework and woke up to her FINALLY!
She never wanted me. She hated me all along. But she didn’t want anyone else to have me either.
This time she lost big time. This time she lost me for good. And my wife as a friend. And last but not least a mutual friend who has finally realized that she is a sociopath and like me is cutting off all ties to her.
It is about time!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 5:28am

knowledgeempowers says:

Hello Renewedhope, Wow, your story hits home, the cycling part, only in my case it was 18 months and the cycling was much more frequent. I never did hear I hate you though. He NEVER would admit he didnt love me which is what I needed to hear so badly. It was untimatley up to ME to empower myself and just go into NC. While I still have questions the more I read and understand and realise these predators are out there and I am not alone in what I went through the stronger I become, more determined to never go through this again, to find and restore peace and happiness I once had without the P in my life.
Good luck to you, your name says loads about where you are in the letting go and moving on process!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:06am

Dear knowledgeempowers ;
Of Course they would never tell us the truth: That they don’t really want us! They would rather be in CONTROL and string us along like puppets! A good person with a heart would have told us the truth so that we could have moved on. But NOOO! They have to be keep playing us like a child with a bug..and we are the bug. They will tear off all our limbs before they stomp on us for good.The funny thing is.. I KNOW that as mean as she was to me..she could have been alot worse..alot of sociopaths are.. so at least I left with my dignity in tact when I told her that I was on to her and what she was and that I never wanted to see or hear from her ever again. I have had a few week moments but so far- thank God! I have been total NC now for 7 weeks now and counting!
I attribute that success mainly to this site and to you folks here who wave been there and done that! Thanks everyone! Love you for that! XO

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:31am

WooHoo! 7 weeks! So proud of you Renewedhope! Way to go! I know its a long hard road, but in the end our rewards, of a life without the P and all the crap, malice, and degredation that goes along with the relationship will be so worth the journey through the unknown and dealing with the emotional after effects.
Yes, this site is so helpful. I did read the bug analogy, bot the spider one and the one about play with it then flick it away, I have my own version of that, play with it, prod it, torture it, then flick it away when the P is done with it : )

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:42am

renewedhope – just want you to know i am out here and listening. i like your model of treating sociopaths as we do pedophiles. makes complete sense. and i think it will take the time for people ot understand about spaths as it has taken for people to understand the prevalence and effects of pedophiles.

keep going into week 8; may you be blessed with a lifetime of freedom.

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:53am

So..so..NICE to be heard! Thank You all!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 12:47pm

Id like to address something I have come to realize in my journey, particularly due to all the awesome people on LF…

In regards to the idea of us ‘allowing’ this to happen-

What I have learned is that by believing I was “IN” a relationship, I did the things normal people do while “IN” a relationship. I was skeptical at first, before knowing him, then as he showed me more and more of (a pretend) him, I trusted more and more, putting down my guard a little more and more, and becoming more and more vulnerable. In this process, he kept my confidences up in him with his ability to tap into ‘how he was’ at the beginning, and not unlike a drug that you chase the high of, I too ‘chased’ the image I had of him…relating to the beginning of our ‘relationship’.

I did not ALLOW him to use, manipulate, lie or cheat on me. I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS HAPPENING…and, in spite of feeling something was wrong, I was ‘hooked’ by the drug of MY choice…that he fed me bits and pieces of routinely…the IMAGE of ‘who he was’ at the beginning.

This is what seems to be so disheartening to me. My ‘blinders’ weren’t on totally, as I knew something was off, however, the spaths being MASTERS at hypnotizing and convincing others of the reality THEY want us to see ALLOWS THEM to continue with their game. It’s not us…

If they did present themselves initially as they actually ‘turn out to be’ (which, is in essence WHO THEY REALLY ARE), they would have NO chance with anyone. In order for them to engage in the “game’, they HAVE TO (and I mean this very strongly) pretend to be something diametrically opposite of what they really are…asswipes.

What this means is that when we do KNOW what is going on, then the action takes place. Their game is over…now, at THAT point, when we find out the truth, if we continue with them, THEN we ALLOW it to happen…but for many of us here, the minute we found out/realized what was happening, we were (and are moving) out the door!

To ‘allow’ insinuates we were ‘knowing’ of something but didnt DO anything about it. Really, how many of us KNEW what was going on? I sure the hell didnt…because Im NORMAL and compassionate and healthy, and trusting…and thats ok

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 1:53pm

Well said robxsykobabe. I also had some subconscious doubts about him before ever entering into a reltionship with him. That is why I didnt pursue anything with him, while he had been a great fun friend at the time I didnt see him as a perspective partner.
I should have stuck with that and been more alert to my internal radar. But once he professed a broken heart because I was pursuing a relationship with someone else and I felt his feelings were true I opened my heart to him and eventually fell for him.

What a mistake that turned out to be.

Wish I would have gone with my own gut instincts, however dull they are, they are always right!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:02pm

learnthelesson says:

Robxsykobabe -

I agree with almost everything in your post.

Except for me…i really must admit…at the point he stopped presenting himself initially as he did…at the times I caught him in a lie…at the times he stole the money…once the jig was up…I was aware…I wasnt hypnotized or convinced…I was in denial…I was in a fantasy…I made excuses…had falsehope (he didnt mean it, it was just a bad choice, he will make good on it, he will pay back the money, he will never lie again..he wont cheat anymore…) for me I wasnt and didnt move out the door… so that is what I mean when i refer to the fact I allowed this to continue to happen by not making better choices at the very first lie, the very first infidelity, the very first emotional abuse. I was absolutely knowing of something and didnt DO anything about it…. my reasons were confusion, embarassment, feeling love for him, wanting it to get bettter, having compassion, and being trusting…. its all ok…but I was not my healthiest when i was knee deep in it with him – i didnt have the tools to SAY NO MORE..TO WALK OUT THE DOOR…TO NOT TAKE HIM BACK….but I was aware (not initially cuz his mask was on) — just in a fog — just inexperienced — just never before in such a place with a bad person.

Now if a S/P were to enter my life….I could easily never “allow” any of it to continue to happen once the very first lie, cheat, steal happens. Because I have the tools and the self-awarness now of what to do and what not to do. I can deal with the reality of what an S/P chooses to do to me – and I can walk away immediately. I couldnt do that before.

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:07pm

They so cleverly make things your fault. The first lie, the first infidelity, all put back on me. Too much pressure, I heard that one alot. But it wasnt pressure, it was the desire for him to show me that who he claimed to be he really was, and the frustration that went along with that.
What he claimed was pressure was me wanting him to follow through on promises and plans we had made. They came from his mouth, why wouldnt I expect him to follow through on them?
and yet, i stayed, over and over an over, i stayed for that hope, that dream he presented that he created in my mind and heart, the dream and promises he never intended to follow through wtih, until at last i saw the light and realised they were all empty words and I could take NO MORE HURT!
Tired of the frustration, the doubt, the worry, the guilt, the accusations against me for his own choices and behavior. I HAD ENOUGH!
During my relationship with the P my blood pressure was way up, I had always had low blood pressure my entire life and only during this relationship was it up. To the point the doc wanted to put me on high blood pressure meds. Within a week of NC (and my final decision I was DONE!) I had my blood pressure checked and low and behold what do you know, back to low!!
Its amazing how the stress of these relationships effects us not only mentally, and emotionally but also physically.
Once I was so upset with him I even slammed my fist on the desk out of anger, frustration and hurt. Injured myself but good with this, had a huge bruise and could barely move my hand for days.
Enough was enough!
I am taking my life back! Finding some happiness and joy once again, something I have been lacking for oh so long!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:22pm

He can rot in hell and will I am sure for all the hurt he has caused to loads of women. He will NEVER hve a good functional relationship, ever, and you know what? I DONT CARE! I cant help him, I tried, once i realised he was messed up, i thought my love could help him, but there is NO HELP for these ppl. I can only help myself!
He talked always about how miserable his life really was, and in some ways I do believe that was a truth. I have contemplated often if they realise they can not and never will feel love (afterall, that is the best feeling a person can feel) and because of this it makes them even worse?

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:27pm

Sorry all, I still have residual anger about this, I am working through it and working on getting to a better place within myself.

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:45pm

knowledgeempowers and learnthelesson

Knowledge:
No need to apologize….you are right where you need to be. Sometimes, at least for me, it was difficult to hear other peoples responses because to me they seemed so much further along than I was. Then they would post something about having a melt down and it made me realize the rollercoaster we ALL are on…and its ok. Some days Im strong and others, well, if you read some of my posts, youll see Im crumbling….Its been 14 weeks NC and it DOES get easier…not fast…but it happnes.

Learnthelesson:
Ahhhh…the old falsehope. Yes. They show what their ‘potential’ is at the beginning and creat the FOG. That hope carries us through some pretty shitty ass times and in the meantime, their seams are slowly busting. We, though, are hoping so badly that what they are showing us has a ‘reason’ behind it as it CANT be what it is in front of us!
Nice response…you added insight to my rant…and now Ill think about that one too!

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 3:15pm

Knowledge – you have every right to be angry as you invested alot of time int this guy and gave him the beenfit of the doubt.

There are some great articles on here written by Steve Becker and others..I’m finding them extremely helpful

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 4:46pm

OxDrover says:

Dear R-Babe,

That realizing that no matter how great things are going you can STILL have the occasional melt down, and should not feel ASHAMED of it. I a concept I have had to learn. When I had my latest melt down over a month ago when I got “triggered” by a couple of things at once, one I expected, one I didn’t, I felt so “guilty” and it was difficult for me to post because “I should be beyond that now”—but I decided that to be ashamed and guilty because of MY reaction to a couple of bad situations was not a good reaction, it was NOT MY bad behavior that brought on my melt down, and I had nothing to be ashamed of, I was not the one who lied, I should not feel guilty because the crime wasn’t MINE, but someone else’s.

Sure, I was hurt, and also stressed with the upcoming project I have to do (going through my P-son’s letters etc) and I melted. Even the “strongest” of us melt down from time to time, but the thing I have found is, that (1) those melt downs don’t last as long (2) usually aren’t as deep (3) we ALREADY have the “tools” to FIX THEM. Denying that we have them, or covering them up just so we can appear “stronger” to others isn’t being honest I don’t think. I’m pretty HONEST here, and I DO want people on this site to think “Well” of me, but if I only show my peeps on here jONLY my “good side” I am not being truly HONEST. If I can’t be honest with those closest to me, and to my LF Peeps, then who in the world CAN I be truly honest with?

If nothing else, maybe my example of my melt down will give someone else comfort that their own melt down doesn’t mean they are “losing it” but is just a temporary pot hole in the Road To Healing” and we’ll get back up on our feet and keep on walking.

Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 4:53pm

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“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?”

53 Comments to ““How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?””

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one_step_at_a_time says:

style1 says:

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Renewedhope says:

lostingrief says:

B_G says:

ErinBrock says:

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blinded says:

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Renewedhope says:

knowledgeempowers says:

Renewedhope says:

knowledgeempowers says:

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Renewedhope says:

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