“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?”
“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ‘need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
written by Liane Leedom, M.D. • Permalink •
LAMan says:
Again, a helpful read! I wish I could see what medical/psychological journals 100 years from now will say about this disorder.
My recovery is going well, and 95% of the time I am strong, but I have moments of weakness. I googled last night just to see if any new pictures are posted by my psycho (he’s a photographer) and sometimes he posts pics of himself in galleries. I found two new ones and although I am not wishing for the relationship to return (god no!) –I marvel at how he is smiling and looking perfectly happy and unaffected — as if we had never been together.
I know he has this disorder, but he functions outwardly like a “great guy.” It is so confounding.
What you say in this post makes sense and fits my psycho’s profile. Funny, we all “obsess” to some degree with new love, I believe. For psychos, it must be different.
I have to re-resolve to stop thinking about him in any way. The analysis of what happened is good for me as it is leading to a better life for myself and helping to fix what led me to the psycho in the first place. And the disorder is a fascinating condition, we all must admit, on a certain level.
But…too much time spent in the analysis is still a power victory for them. A “reverse obsession” on our part. Fascinating but necessary to control!
Still strong.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 26 January 2007 @ 3:44pm
LAMan says:
Hey Southernman!
I recognized so much of what I went through in your post. I was abandoned as well. I stopped the emailing and called only once because it was degrading to hear that there was no interest on the other end AT ALL any more. Therapy has helped me and it sounds like it has helped you. I keep going to my therapist for reinforcement. You are right. It WAS NOT you. It was her and her disorder. I believe once we understand that, we are more than half way there. I was deeply broken when I believed it was me who was responsible. It is a relief to understand that it was the psycho and their illness, and we just didn’t know their story.
I agree, we are lucky we did not move in with or marry these people — and we are lucky they do not try to re-contact us. Still, we were emotionally abused, no question and our precious time was wasted in a very big way.
On a positive note, five months out of the experience, I can say that I feel a definite sense of strength which I have gained. You are right. Our happiness comes from within first, and then we can attach to others. Not the other way around. It’s one thing to understand that intellectually, but quite another to truly FEEL it inside. Well, now, after the psycho, I get it. The horrible experience has (after much pain and introspection) BUILT my self-esteem. Ironic, but true.
I find myself standing up for the things I want out of a relationship much much more quickly now. It’s a 50/50 thing, and if I’m not getting my 50, well, then it’s not right, period.
I also see that I am the winner here. Strange to say, but true! The fact that I care about others and about myself and spend time making sense of what happened makes me a winner. Also, all the things the psycho accused me of turned out to be TRUE OF THEM. I am the one to be coveted, not them.
I visit this site almost daily. I am obsessed (not ridiculously – you all know what I mean) now with my own recovery and mental/emotional health. That comes first.
I am sorry to hear when people’s children have to go through this. Again, I guess therapy is the way to go for the parent and possibly the child. Hard enough for us adults to recover…
Knowing other people have gone through similar experiences reinforces my recovery. This site helps keep me from getting “soft” about the very disturbed freakazoid I got tangled up with!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 12:34pm
Liane Leedom, M.D. says:
To Southernman
Thank you for posting your story! I have three reactions to it.
First, Your story is important for us because women can also be sociopaths. I am working on a piece about this and you have given me an introduction.
Second, you have done a very great thing for the women who visit this site. Because sociopathy is so common in men, women who have been involved with sociopaths come to believe that good men like you only exist on TV and in the movies. HEAR THIS LADIES EXPECT A MAN TO BE LOVING AND EMPATHETIC THIS IS NORMAL MALE BEHAVIOR!
Third, balance in pleasure is important for balance in life. That is what you maintain when you keep your spiritual focus. None of us know why these relationships happen to us, but it is up to us to learn and grow from the experience.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 2:49pm
southernman429 says:
Dr. Leedom and LAMan………
Thank you both for your kind words. I really only scratched the surface in my story about her behavior. There were many things that she shared with me, during our time together that now, I see as big time red flags… but of course, she wouldn’t do those things to me… I was “special.” I have wondered why after all these months, why I could not move on, why I was consumed by her and the relationship, why the pain was so intense. I must share that I can honestly say that having this happen to me was more painful then losing my wife to death. I think on some levels, it’s because she did these things to me emotionally with a smile on her face, with concern, and love in her eyes. Using projection, manipulation, and just plain cruelty. She was able to make me think and feel like I was the person who needed help with my “emotions” When I think of all the hoops I felt I had to jump through to keep the relationship. when I think of the sabotage she did to it. It would seem like when ever things were going well, or a important date would be approaching, like Christmas, Valentines Day, my birthday, a romantic weekend planned for us… she would suddenly create drama, to make me feel like everything was in jeopardy…. Of course, I didn’t see those things at the time, and also, since my only marriage had also been unhealthy, I came to think that being in a relationship was 50 % good and 50% bad…. It was just the way it would be. My goal in this lifetime is to have a healthy, fulfilling relationship with a woman. I know what that looks like on paper, but have never experienced that in my life. All these months, I have wanted her back. My self esteem was shattered. Before I met her, I was a confidant man, who had no problem meeting women, but after her departure, getting close to someone and trusting them was unthinkable. I have come a long ways in this 10 months, and finding this site, and now knowing that there isn’t something wrong with me, and that it wasn’t my fault…. has made such a big difference. I still am saddened when I think about the woman that I thought I loved… she was perfect, and for some reason, it was almost like I was under some kind of spell…. because, I now just cannot believe that I would have put up with the craziness. I could never understand her ability to totally delete my son and me from her life as if we never existed. I now understand. It was provedto be the closure that I have been searching for. There is one thing I will always miss… and that was the sex… for me, it was spiritual because of my love for her… for her, it was all a game, and in some ways she raped me with my consent.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 29 January 2007 @ 4:13pm
LAMan says:
Wow, there are so many commonalities here! The sex was amazing in my situation, also. I used to miss it. Not any more. You won’t always miss it — you know why?? Because I realized that I was 50% responsible for the hot sex, and I don’t believe I’m a psycho
so that means hot sex is possible with non-psychos because it was possible with me (and with you from what you say). So, therefore, you’ll find it with someone else – who is NOT a disordered personality.
My psycho also would make everything out to be my fault, too, and I bought it for awhile. The arguments were pretty convincing because he took everything I confided to him and used that to nail me!
No more, brother! And you shouldn’t buy it for yourself, either! We WERE abused, you are right – but we got out!
Go back to being the confident guy you remember you were before – only now, you are even stronger because you have seen the nasty side of life – and you know it doesn’t have to be that way!
Just move towards that. Good women will find you. They exist. Evidence: Seems to be plenty of them on this site
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 January 2007 @ 3:25am
will be okay says:
Wow Southernman, Our stories are similar. I too am a widow, my late husband died suddenly at 33 years old, leaving me with 2 kids to raise. I had been alone for 5 years, dated a few but nothing very serious until this seemingly perfect man came into my life. I agree with you, dealing with this is SO much harder than dealing with my husbands death. My daughter was only 3 when her dad died, sociopath knew he was the 1st man I was sure of enough to bring into her life, she adored him and we played family with his little boy, for a year and a half (my other child is much older). It ended very abrubtly when I caught him cheating, he never once mentioned concern for me, or the kids. La Man is right… Knowing what you were dealing with is half of it, now you can begin to heal. For me it has only been 5 months, but I’m doing much better, because of lovefraud and MSN PSYCHOPATH which is a wonderful support group. Good Luck to you.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 2 February 2007 @ 2:53am
southernman429 says:
Hey will be ok…….
I think that being a widow/er made us more vulnerable. The loneliness can be overbearing. I tried very hard to fill that void in my life for both me and my son. By the time I met my P, I had actually stopped trying so hard, so when she came into our life, I really thought that she was there for a reason, a answered prayer. Little did I know that the reason she was there was not what I had hoped for. Like you, we played “family” with her, and like I had stated above, that was the thing I wanted most desperately. that sense of family. My P knew of my pain from my loss, she also knew just how badly I wanted that family unit, and she knew I’d almost stop at nothing to regain that. For the first 6 months of my relationship with my P, there wasn’t a single misstep. Everything seemed perfect. We loved her, she loved us. And because I had wanted this one piece of my life to be complete, I overlooked things that I shouldn’t have. I agree with you and LAMan that now that I know just what I was dealing with in her, the truth has really set me free, and I can feel my true healing begin. For months, I have tried to connect the dots, to try to understand, and I just couldn’t. It was beyond my comprehension, as to how a woman could do this to me knowing of the pain I had gone through with my wife’s death, and further, how could she have done this to my son.. a little boy, who loved her and opened up to her like she was his mother. I still can see my P holding his hand, sitting on the couch reading to each other, her tucking him in at night. It makes me want to cry, because I now know that it was all not real. With knowledge come healing and peace, and I am on the road to that, but also with knowledge comes power. This will never happen to me and my son again. Thank you will be ok…. My heart goes out to you and your children. But we both “will be ok”… ;^)
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 3 February 2007 @ 10:20am
Fighter says:
Even years later we see victims still struggling with this. It may have been someone they just met or had known for years. Trying to make sense of these predators is futile yet, as normal caring people we need to make sense in order to heal.
Great post!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 February 2007 @ 7:59am
Mickey says:
After four years with a sociopath that ended with him assaulting me and BITING me until I bled ala Mike Tyson and Hannibal Lector, I am still trying to figure out what happened to me, how did I allow years of mind manipulation to the point that I was so confused that I had no idea what was real or not real. Every red flag was resolved with a convincing response with what I now realize were pure lies, extreme lies. It baffles me that I actually lived through this. I wonder though if it is just me, am I a target for sociopaths. Is he dating women now who can identify it early on, or are they falling for the same incredible charm and affection he gave to me. I once told him that I just didn’t understand him….and he told me that he is not easily understood. It was perhaps a rare moment of clarity for him, but not for me. So, in the end I found out he spent four years of ongoing non stop dating on his tennis nights, on his nights at work, when he had to get his car fixed etc, and the unimaginable…as a man who pretended to have multiple identities on websites for large women luring them to meet with him, promising them a loving relationship, and many other incomprehensible behaviors. It still doesn’t seem real. I am getting better, but I am not sure I will ever recover.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 February 2007 @ 11:28pm
southernman429 says:
It’s been three weeks now since I made the connection that my ex girlfriend was a p/n. After 11 months of crying, confusion, obsessing, depression, self blaming, weight loss, trying to get on with my life, not being able to focus, worrying about if I was losing my mind, and just plain being miserable and sad, I’m happy to say these past three weeks have been the best in nearly a year. My entire perspective about that crazy relationship, and mainly about her has changed so dramatically. I am starting to feel my worth again, and after reading so much here, and at the MSN sites, things are so much clearer, and all the questions, the doubts, the why’s and the how’s have been answered. For all this time, I just simply could not understand why I could not get over her, especially when she was so cruel and cold hearted. Every night for these past three weeks, I have read for hours the posts, the info, at the MSN Narcissistic Personality Disorder Group, here at Love fraud, MSN Friends and Family Affected by AsPD Group , Dr. Sam Vaknin’s site for the study of Narcissism. It has been truly enlightening, and I know for sure that I will not be a target for another one of these cold hearted women in the future. I have grown so much over these past 11 months. I became a Christian, have not dated, and have tried to heal from this emotional trauma. My friends and family have been very concerned about me these past months. they kept telling me to get over it, or move on, and wondered why I keep it so close to the surface of my existence. I know that unless you have encountered one of these crazy people, you have no idea. I look forward to the nest relationship I enter with a woman, but I do know two things. I can love again, and I’ll never love again with the innocence of a child like I did nearly two years ago when she came into my life. It will be spring soon here in the South, and like the flowers that bloom, and the leaves on the trees, I feel a rebirth, and a resurrection of not just the old me, but the new and improved, and the WISER me. Thanks to all here. This site has done what it was intended to do… inform, and warn.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 8 February 2007 @ 5:36pm
LAMan says:
Hey Southernman!
Glad to hear you are feeling better!
2 reactions to your last post:
1) If you’re like me, it might take some more time to process what has happened to you. I found myself regurgitating every detail, especially after the “Aha!” of figuring out what the psycho was about. Every tiny memory suddenly had a new meaning and the re-evaluation took several months – granted, I felt better during those months, but the “eye-opening” went deeper than I ever expected. It’s a good thing, however.
Only now, after almost 6 months, do I find myself going for long periods without giving the person a single thought and then realizing that I had forgotten them for awhile (victory!)
2) you may never love again with the same innocence, but the real you will return. You’ll be wiser, yes, but you haven’t lost your innocence. Not really. I don’t think I have. That’s how we stay young
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 9 February 2007 @ 12:32pm
dee says:
Thank you so much for posting your experiences!
Like southernman I have been reading here a lot and each time I find another “aha” moment that releases more of the answers to the “whys” and heals me.
But for me one of the best things is finding the self esteem and confidence that had become so destroyed, have started recovering so quickly from all the generous people here who share their stories. Also in part, its the self discovery process wherein before I kept asking myself why I was unworthy, why I was to blame for all of the mess, why I was so deeply depressed after we talked and still the answers to all the basic needs I expressed were they were my own over-reactions, my over emotional mental state, my insanity even, that although he was able to manipulate me in believing all of these about myself, there was also an answer inside myself. I discovered that I carried the seeds of vulnerability and lack of self esteem from most likely a narissistic parenting that make me an easy target for him.
So, the best part of the healing is actually that I have come out of it, finally after 10+ years, a better person, stronger than before, less afraid, and filled with a more realistic sense of idealism, and especially a true sense of self esteem and confidence. AND as ironic as it sounds, no one else understands this but I’ll be people here do, a sense of gratitude to him because IF I hadn’t have had the experience, I may not have found my way to who I am now, and in the future.
Thank you all! I’ll never be able to express my true gratitude to all of you lovely people here!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 February 2007 @ 12:31pm
southernman429 says:
Hey Dee….
Like most here, I too carried the seeds of vulnerability. Losing a spouse, and the aftermath of that expirence, put me in a position where I was desperate to regain some sense of normalcy in my life, which was having that family unit, meaning a wife and a mother in our lives. Like you, going through this expirence has taught me so many things, not just about sociopaths and narsissits, but about my own needs and the way I had gone about and looked at relationships. I truly believe that God allowed my crazy to come into my life for many reasons, which one of them was to teach me about myself. I can see now with much clarity, the mistakes I made in not setting or having boundries, and allowing someone to control a relationship. Many have asked here about being able to love again. I feel that in some ways, I will be able to love in a much fuller, healthy, more well rounded way the next time. One reason is that I know myself so much better, and second, I know the warning signs of unhealthiness, and will not allow those who try to push that kind of agenda in my life. I also know that I will love and respect myself in a whole new way, and will never sacrifice my happiness for someone who does not have my best interest at heart. I am on a internet dating site now. I don’t date often, in fact I have not met anyone from there as of yet, and I respond to few who write to me for obvious reasons, but I would like to share with you all here my written essay. I think it shows that I know exactly what I want, and also that my standards are set high, but hey, why not? Don’t let the romanticness of my words fool you, I will use my new tools very wisely in weeding out any potential predators, or those who bring negetivity into my life. I do look at love and relationships in a positive way, and I would never want to live with a guarded heart, but I can say that I do not have a “hungry” heart anymore. My son and I deserve the very best, so I’m in no hurry…. I know that there are wonderful, healthy people out there who would make great partners. I hope one day to meet one. So, here is my written essay………………………………………….
I would like to have a remarkable woman in my life. I have a wonderful life, and I am blessed with a great son, and I’m ready to share with someone very special. At 44, I don’t want to compromise what I want out of a relationship, and what I would like in a prospective partner and I feel that I’m entitled to a healthy, fulfilling relationship and so are you. And while I’m not in a hurry to marry, I want that possibility. I’m looking for a true, romantic, love that lasts a lifetime. Does such a desirable thing exist? I know that it can’t be bought, stolen, or made to happen. It will take work and commitment, but it also “just simply is”… That’s the hard part.
Like many here, I’ve made my share of mistakes in past relationships. Lost someone I loved more then a few times, and each time it got harder. Had my heart broken more then once, and broke a few as well. I’ve learned my lessons the hard way, but I have no regrets, or bitterness. In fact, I’m so thankful to have lived and loved, lost and learned. Self growth cannot happen without pain, so I made it a opportunity to grow as a man, and I’m thrilled to have evolved into the man I always wanted to be, and into that man God always intended for me to be. I grasp the “Big Picture” in life, and know it’s not about us. It’s about the heart. I’m looking for a woman that captivates me. Someone who thinks outside the box, someone who is different from the rest. Although this romantic/dreamer side of me is a real part of me, I am a grounded man, a realist and live in the real world. So, I want to do this the right way this time. I want to get to know you, I’m in no hurry. I want to see the real you and the gift that lies within.
So, Who Is She?
She will be tender, loving, fun, affectionate, and honest. With a kind, caring and giving heart. An exceptional woman. Someone who wants a committed relationship, and is willing to work at it with that in mind. She will be emotionally available, and has learned from her past, but not be limited by it, so she can and will love me like her heart has never been broken. She loves children, romance, and togetherness, and gives as much as she takes. A woman with good morals and values, and with a enthusiasm, and adventure for life. She would be strong, loyal, determined, and independent without being controlling or selfish. She will be intelligent, and keep me on my toes and challenge me with her depth and her sharp wit. She’ll bring out the very best in me, and place her hand upon my heart. And I in return, will fight for her with all of my being, and give to her, with deep pleasure, the essence of my life, my strength, and the two greatest gifts I could ever bestow to anyone… my undying love, and devotion, and the center, the core of my being .. my heart.
She will be beautiful in my eyes, and when I’m with her, I’ll take her all in, because I don’t want to miss a thing. She will be my confidant, my best friend, my lover, my inspiration, my life partner till my final breath. My love and delight for her will grow and deepen with each passing year, and continue for all the remaining years of my life. Her eyes will see into my soul, her voice will nurture and comfort it. She will stand beside me, sharing with me, our life adventure through the best and the worst of times. She will have a life spark that shines like the brightest star on a mid-winters night. And her love for God, and for me and my son will run as deep and true as the widest, bluest ocean.
When I think about her during our time apart, I will long for her touch and yearn to hear her laughter, as it soothes my heart. And when we are together, I will take her hand in mine, and look into her eyes and know it’s really meant to be… It will be God’s miracle gift, His wonderous plan, intended for us both… always and forever. Our lives will be full of love, happiness, joy, adventure, and promise, and ever most importantly, Peace.
I will always believe dreams do come true
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 11 February 2007 @ 9:13am
dee says:
southernman,
Great ad. I wish you lots of luck with it.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 11 February 2007 @ 9:26am
Liane Leedom, M.D. says:
Dear Southernman,
I too wish you the best. Perhaps though you can meet a woman recommended by someone you trust like your pastor/minister or a friend. The internet is very dangerous. There are matchmaking internet sites that extensively screen but still remember even NASA didn’t get it right.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 11 February 2007 @ 3:45pm
LAMan says:
Lol, the NASA reference made me smile. On a completely 180 degree turnabout note — “Taxi Driver” was on TV two nights ago. The viewing experience was a bit different for me this time. My psycho didn’t shoot a roomful of people (I hope), but Deniro’s performance included a number of incidental behaviors that I recognized, especially in his scenes alone – for example – the calculating and serious meticulous planning facial expressions. I caught my psycho in a restaurant when he didn’t know I was looking at him, and his facial expression was one I had never seen. Deeply methodical and serious, as if he were planning some great procedure.
Freaky…but there you go…
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 12 February 2007 @ 12:53pm
sleeplessinAR says:
SouthernMan429…I could have written your story myself. It’s soooo similar. I was charmed, fell in love, gave everything until I lost myself in him. The departure from your tale is that he wanted to get married…very fast. Should have been a red flag, I know now. I was with him for 2 years and felt everything you described. My intuition told me that despite his reassurances, he wouldn’t be in my life long. My intuition screamed at me many times, but I ignored it. I gave my money, my time, my energy, my heart, my soul – everything. He took it all and gave less, and less, and less. I am embarassed at how little I settled for, actually.
On January 24 he pushed my boundaries (again), picked a fight (again), told me I was crazy, etc. and – disappeared. He left in my car, with my keys, money, debit card, checkbook, even my internet router and phone! He left me and my 5 year old son sitting in our home at 10pm with nothing, and not even realizing he was gone and never coming back.
I had to borrow money and take a taxi to my friend’s house, who happened to have an extra vehicle. I found an old cell phone to text message on…otherwise my son and I would have been sitting there with no car, no money, and no way to contact anyone.
Anyway, after frantically looking everywhere for him; calling his mom in a panic; filing a missing persons report….I was contacted by the police 3 days later. They said he was fine; was out of state; and had requested they not divulge his whereabouts to me.
I felt all the panic and gut-wrenching anquish that you described. I talked to his mom for the first week, but he refused to speak to me. After that, she stopped answering the phone when I would call. I KNEW in my heart for a while that he was a sociopath, and after the first 2 weeks I was able to move a bit through the pain to realize it’s best this way. However, at this point I have no idea where he is; why his mom won’t take my calls; and if I’m ever going to see my car again. I was left holding the bag for all the bills.
I have been awestruck by how someone just completely discards other people…me and the children. He just tossed us away like yesterday’s garbage and didn’t look back. He hasn’t tried once to contact me.
It’s the most surreal thing I’ve ever been through, and no matter how hard I’ve tried to make sense of him, I just can’t.
I decided to grieve the man I loved…and treat it as a death b/c he never even existed. I fell for the facade; the game; the spiderweb he so skillfully wove for me.
I beat myself up for grieving a man who could laugh in my face while I was bearing my soul to him and sobbing my heart out.
That whole devalue/discard cycle is excruciating and hits us like a freight train.
All I can do is work on me. I can understand why I was a willing participant in my own torture; why I couldn’t just leave; why I ignored all the red flags, etc. Counseling and Al-Anon have helped tremendously – and sights like this.
Hearing about the experiences of others allows me to be even firmer in my resolve that IT WASN’T ME.
Now I’m just working on taking care of – ME.
I wish everyone here peace and comfort.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 17 February 2007 @ 9:50pm
sleeplessinAR says:
I forgot to mention that what I like most about these posts is the idea that our sociopaths are our best teachers. In reality, they did us HUGE favors – by opening our eyes.
I know for me, my greatest fears were: 1. being abandoned, 2. being alone.
Well, lo and behold..they both happened, but I’m still standing.
I realize (now) that my ideas about “love” come from trying to “rescue” my alcoholic father from the age of 6. I’ve played the role of “rescuer” my whole life, never focusing on myself. I’ve been addicted to relationships that were tumultous, unpredictable, and unstable…even passing up a GREAT guy for my sociopath.
So now, thanks to my sociopath, I am finally (at the age of 37) facing my fears, understanding what they are, and learning that it’s okay to take care of ME, and that I cannot rescue/fix/control anyone. Nor should any of us have to completely lose ourselves in our partners or become shells of our former selves.
Thanks to everyone for sharing. It’s educational and comforting at the same time.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 17 February 2007 @ 10:01pm
southernman429 says:
sleeplessinAR……….
Like you, I am embarrassed at how little I settled for from her after the devaluation had begun. I had made it so easy for her.. as all she had to do was show up and I took care of all the rest. She would do her “time” with us, then leave for several days until she needed more supply, then she would return. I would wait for her, sometimes not so patiently. Of course it was all such a far cry from the way it started. Like your crazy, my crazy took and took and took and gave less and less as time went by. What baffles me is that I took it, I accepted it, I let this behavior continue. It would seem that when I would be at the end of my rope with her, she would “give” just enough to keep me involved, like some extra good sex, or doing something nice for my son. For me, it was like I continued to search for that woman who was there in the beginning… who couldn’t get enough of me, who supported me, who “loved” me. I know now she never really existed, and that in it’s self has been painful. LAMan was right, I have regurgitated every aspect of that relationship, as I see it all through new eyes. Every little comment, action, has a new and sinister meaning. My days continue to be both good, and then bad. The sadness of knowing that I was nothing more then supply, and then grieving someone who wasn’t really there, and being left with a hole in one’s life that doesn’t make sense, filled with shame and pain. Slowly…. ever so slowly I crawl out of the darkness, sometimes taking two steps back, but then to take big steps forward… the process…. repairing me, seeing my gifts…. the tug of war of emotions….. I am a hard worker…. I am working hard to recapture my essence, my self love… to take back what I unselfishly gave away so innocently to someone with evil in her core.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 18 February 2007 @ 9:10am
LAMan says:
Same situation for me…psycho took more and more and gave just enough to keep me coming back. I kept looking for that person I had initially thought I loved. Even after they abandoned me, I tried a few communications. Like someone said in one of the other posts – I had just been “deleted” from his life.
My shrink compares this to emotional rape. I scoffed at first, but come to think of it, I agree. The violation is that serious. To be targeted and used in such a way.
I agree that this site helps speed recovery immensely! I am much better now. I also agree that the involvement I had with the psycho made me a much stronger and I think, better person. I will tell you that the long-term relationship I had cheated on with the psycho in this, my one and only affair, is thriving now. Reason: I recognize and value the real love that I had lost sight of. The affair with the psycho may end up being the catalyst to saving my real relationship. I am fighting to save my long-term relationship now and the efforts have been working so far!
Although–I don’t want the psycho to be “thanked” for that. Only gratitude I have is for the experience I had with the psycho and what I have learned from it. The psycho can live in his freaky little world for all eternity for all I care!
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 22 February 2007 @ 3:05am
judy cox says:
i am reading all of these stories and crying..still in alot of agony at times…shattered..i am in therapy now but i am forever changed…my story..briefly…i only knew him for 2 months..i joined a Christian gym…i am sure you have never heard of one..i hadn’t either..but anyway..he was the manager..he wore a cross printed on his shirt…Bible verses on the wall…nice music and atmosphere..he didn’t own the gym…he was hired off the street..he told me he had 2 business degrees and spoke 5 languages..this was a temporary job since his wife had died 3 years before…after 18 months of marriage…he said he had a girlfriend for a year and a half after that and she was just horrible and he was treated so badly…he totally went after me…romance like i had never seen..polite..charming..prayed with me and for me daily…held my hand every chance he had..took me out to eat…told me God had been preparing me for this all my life and if i would just give him a chance he would ”love me as Christ loves the church”..and so on..he told me he had never tasted alcohol…i honestly thought he should have a church and be preaching…he seemed almost perfect…and he loved me so much….i thought…..so i married him…and moved all my furniture into a condo we bought together…he wanted my money put into his bank..and 75,000 he talked me into letting him invest…i never saw it again….in 3 months he was not working…he was a binge drinking alcoholic…he would either be praying for me…calling me ”baby doll” or ‘’sweetheart” or you..M.F.B…..and worse.. when i said i was leaving he said ”leaving was not an option”..that he would kill me and kill himself…at times he ordered me to sit and not move and not speak…finally when it was really coming to a head..he told me he had found a job in another state and he wanted us to have a new start..a new home…find a church…and he promised to stop drinking..i reluctantly went…a mistake…he put my things into storage…took the money and moved it to a new acct… hid the cash…i still don’t know where it is….he took me to a friend’s empty home…started drinking…there was no job…in a few days he beat me up badly and abandoned me….i was without food for 3 days..i called 911..got help….made it back to my home state…i have never seen him again…he refused all calls from me or my attorney..i found i was the 4th he has done this to..the wife that died..he overdosed while she had cancer so she was terminal but the family knew he did this…he took 200,000 from her acct. which was for her son..and left her mom 80,000 in credit card debt…he robbed and abandoned his first wife also….he has no conscience….this man who said i was like”his breath and blood” has never been seen again..he stole my furniture and all my money…AND i did a background check…i wish i had when i met him..HE IS A SEX OFFENDER!!!.so i am pretty devastated..i just cry alot…can’t work right now..can’t sleep..very depressed..have felt suicidal..i am in therapy….i will make it but i am in such pain.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 24 February 2007 @ 7:21pm
judy cox says:
hi..it’s judy again…i just got up for a new day after writing to you last night…to clarify…i only knew him for 2 months before i married him..we were married a year and a half…i was only with him a year when he disappeared..left me in another state..not knowing exactly where i was…the judge in my state has granted me a divorce after he didn’t show for court..but i got my name back ..but … he broke my spirit, took my money and things..hurt my body..and i will never trust wide open as i once did…i shouldn’t have trusted like that anyway..but he was very convincing…sociopaths tune in and listen for who you are…i was at a vulnerable time in my life and wanting a new start…he told me i was the greatest and most wonderful woman he had ever met..he told me i was the most beautiful woman he had ever seen…you know what is really bad? the most fulfilled i ever felt ..the most i ever laughed…the most i ever felt truly cherished..and it wasn’t even real…..so the grief has been over the top…i understand so many of these postings..thank you for reading mine..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 25 February 2007 @ 7:20am
judy cox says:
southernman….you really sound awesome…the kind of man i hope to be with…it is wonderful to hear that your heart is still wanting love….it seems all on this site have suffered but were really only wanting to love and be loved…this was my first encounter with a love relationship with such a con…a sociopath robs you of what they can…wounds you but thank God we are still here…and good people!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 25 February 2007 @ 1:44pm
southernman429 says:
Thank you Judy, and I wish you the best in your recovery and in life………….
~Rick~
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 26 February 2007 @ 10:45pm
judy cox says:
hi rick…thank you for posting…please stay in touch…i am beginning to see the light in my life again but i have times of deep sadness..i cry..then i just think about it all…i can’t believe what happened in my life..i always thought i could read people better …i am a Psych RN….and i knew all about ‘’sociopaths”…but when you are the victim..oopps you don’t even realize it…you think they are for ”real”…this site has helped me alot!
thank you all again! judy
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 February 2007 @ 9:30am
robxsykobabe says:
Im having a very difficult time these past few days and Ive slept minimally.
Here is my story…as Ive only shared bits and pieces. My ex and I met on a dating website. We met at a mutually convenient place, and upon seeing him for the first time in person, I was in awe! He was the perfect looking guy, casual, with a tall stature, a beautiful face and such charm. We went into a restaurant but didnt eat. We sat at the bar, and I ordered a drink. He did not, saying he doens’t drink anymore. That was fine with me. We engaged in conversation, and at one point, I had asked him if he had ever been in prison. Why that came to my mind, I dont know…but it did. He said no, and the night continued. We left the restaurant and went to a park near my house and talked all night long. He told me of the person he is and what he stands for and what it is that he wants out of life. He painted a picture that seemed ‘perfect’ in a ‘perfect world’ with ‘perfect expectations”. I told him that night that there had to be something more to him, as NO ONE has things that tightly wrapped up in a package. He assured me this was ‘just him’.
The red flags began shortly after we met. The following weekend he wanted to see me, however, I was not sure I wanted to persue a relationship with him…my intuition told me to slow down. I told him I was busy that weekend. Little did I know, he was already on his way to my house! He became angry with me stating ‘but Im already half way there’. He also told me that we couldnt see each other any other time that weekend, as he was having his son. He forgot though that he already told me it wasnt his weekend to have his son. He simply wanted what he wanted and wasnt concerned about me.
The next couple of weekends we saw each other and things were going well. He wrote me a lengthy email at about week 4 telling me of his mysterious ‘past’ that consisted of him being in prison for 26 months, and how he was ‘only’ trying to save his brother from his drug dealer. I was floored and sick to my stomache at the same time. I cried to him, asking him to tell me it was a lie and that it really wasnt true. He did not. The emails and phone calls came heavily at that time, as it seemed as if he was begging me to stay with him…as he was a ‘changed’ person. I fought with myself for quite some time about the choice I was about to make. I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt, as people do change and become better people.
That may have been my demise. We dated for 4 months and on Christmas Eve Night, he dropped a bomb on me. He had a daughter whom he had never met or saw, but was paying child support for. WHAT!!! I knew of his son, but a daughter?
I was, again, supportive and understanding of what he told me had happened. His daughters mother and him met at a bar, got drunk, had sex, and she got pregnant, only SHE didnt want to have anythign to do with HIM and got back together with her exboyfriend. At that time, he swore no other shoe was gonna drop. This was it…no more surprises. I will admit, I was pissed that it took him 4 months to tell me this, although, in my distorted mind, I thought “wow, this must have been hard for him to tell me’.
We dated for the next year and a half with nothing happening except absolute bliss. We got along great, talked about moving in together, getting married, all the good stuff. In February of 2008, we had an arguement. Over what, I dont even remember. We didnt talk for about a week. We had a wedding to go to on the 16th, and we did speak via email. He was demanding of explainations regardign why I didnt contact him…although he was mad at me. Another red flag. Things got patched up and we went to the wedding, had a great time, and things were on the mend again. Until March…
I found womens phone numbers in his phone (which I never looked in, except for this time) and had my friend call them. One of them happened to be from his long lost love…you know, the one he could NEVER stay away from, but they couldnt EVER be together? They had been talking during the tiem we werent. I confronted him about it, and he lied to my face! I gave him a chance to explain and only after he realized I wasnt backing down did he fess up…during the week we werent talking, he and the ex “met up” at the gym…but nothting happened. He said if anything it gave him some closure to their relationship and he realized he really loved me and wanted to be with me. Ahhhh…here began the blatant lies!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 1:38pm
robxsykobabe says:
From March until September, again, things went well. He and I were getting closer (as that was his excuse to meet up with the ex…he didnt feel close to me anymore). In August, we went on a family vacation to Wisconsin. He and I got pulled over in WI for speeding. The cop came to our car and asked my ex if he had been to Missouri as there was a warrant out for someones arrest that looked just like him. My ex, of course didnt know what he was talkign about. The cop let us go and we thought nothing of it other than it was strange. About 2 miles down the road, at our destination, a detective and sherrif was waiting for us…ON MY FAMILY VACATION! My boyfriend had been in Missouri 9 years ago and earned himself a DUI…that never got taken care of…as well as a charge of forging checks and having drug paraphenalia. Remember, he had already gone to PRISON and upon his release, told me ‘everything was taken care of…clean slate”.
He was arrested and put in jail. I calle his mom to see what she knew and she knew more than I thought. It all some how ‘came back to her’ at that point and she began explaining some things to me. Mind you, I had dated him at this point for 2 years…and NO ONE in his family had given ANY information about ANY OF HIS PAST…I was totally in the blind.
So, August 08 to March of 2009 he was ‘trying’ to get this straightened out…but repeatedly ran into road blocks…or so he said. In March of 09, he got pulled over (after askign me to buy him a motorcycle and beign told no…he decided he didnt want to see me that weekend), and arrested AGAIN for driving on a revoked license (due to the DUI in Missouri that he got caught for in WI). His car was taken, license taken and he had AT LEAST a year of no driving. Mind you, he didnt want to see me that weekend cause he was mad…I had ‘devistated him’ by telling him ‘no’.
In September of 2008…after the arrest in WI, I had found texts on his phone that were sent to “GUS” saying “I cant stop thinking about your kisses”. He SWORE they were sent to me, but I just didnt get them. He couldnt talk his way ouf of this, so he packed his things and left…keys and all…for the third time in our relationship.
Im so sick to my stomache right now thinking about all this…I need a break…please, any pep talks would be helpful right now…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 1:53pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
robxsykobabe,
it’s okay.
you were conned, just like everyone else here. and can you imagine the numbers of people who are conned who never find there way here? ….took me weeks of googling to find a net resource, to use the term ‘love fraud’…to find my way here.
the details of the con matter in as much as they show the path of destruction that we have walked down – and i think they are part of the picture we look at to find our way home to ourselves.
it’s okay; this seems like a detox or a cleansing…and things hurt on the way out, but it seems like they ARE ON THE WAY OUT, NOT IN. and THIS is good!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 2:46pm
style1 says:
Okay… a pep talk is what you want..
I am gong tgo ask you.. WHY DID YOU CONTINUE SEEING HIM after the first time that he was coming over and you told him NO! And he got mad and said that he was already half way there…
Look into yourself and answer that question….
That is what I have been doing… why at the first few red flag did I keep dating the creep….?
Figure that out and heal yourself..
also anyone that states that they never drink yet mets you in a bar and you have nothing to eat.. what is that? A date? Why not meet a hamburger joint….
that was a red flag to me right there….
ask yourself.. why you kept with him after finding out that he had a daughter..? It was clear that he was not being truthful about his life….
Look into yourself… and heal .. get away from him and forget about him.. he sounds like the type that could get you into real trouble..
workout, take a hot bath.. go see a movie… be with friends.. but get this man out of your life.. he is poison..
and continue to read posts on here..
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 3:43pm
style1 says:
I am asking myself why and how did I allow myself to be conned?
That is what I want to know down to the very deepest part of myself…
When I get to the bottom of that, it will never be able to occur again.. I will see the red flags and when I do, I will not hesitate to exit.. say no… say go away! This is not what I want in my life. You are not what I want in my life. GOODBYE!
Instead of cutting them all the slack in the world.. and they keep bringing in new issues…
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 3 January 2010 @ 4:07pm
Renewedhope says:
I have come to a conclusion that I think we have to look at sociopathy in the exact same way as one has to pedophilia. The victim must be removed from the preditor’s grasp and kept away at all costs! If not the preditor will devour us and mentally destroy us forever. In both cases too, the scars are there. We must break the cycle!
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 11:18am
lostingrief says:
style1:
i think we were all simply in too deep. too attached, too hopeful for the right outcomes, too under the spath-spell.
we projected on to them our own expectations of love. but nothing could ’stick.’
seems that when i stopped trying to understand it intellectually … and believe me the questions have no end, still … is when a great ‘letting to’ occured.
we didn’t allow anything. we were trusting and loyal is all. and when the spath-shit hit the fan, the disbelief perhaps kept our jaws on the ground longer than it should have.
my trust is shredded right now. and that’s okay.
being alone has allowed me to undo my belief in the lies. he was a master; they all are.
but i’m not sure we really need to endlessly believe that we ‘allowed’ it all to happen. we allowed what we saw as ‘love’ to come in; and THEY twisted and turned it like a knife. when we finally realized it was just a knife, we all ran for the hills. to ‘allow’ it means never moving on.
maybe we need to not understand every little sick anomaly. maybe we’re now more intuitive than we think, and just don’t yet trust that, either.
i dunno.
(Report abusive comment)
Sunday, 24 January 2010 @ 11:51am
B_G says:
So much good information on here. It really helped me reading it. It’s so late here I can’t go into my story, but I look forward to coming back and reading and posting. My best wishses to everyone.
(Report abusive comment)
Friday, 19 February 2010 @ 11:50pm
ErinBrock says:
BG:
Looking forward to your ‘arrival’ here at LF.
Get some rest…..we are here!
Welcome!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 12:17am
Rosie says:
Lostingreif
I really liked your post. I think we do need to trust our intuition and from what I have read it seems some of us had a niggling feeling early on when we first got to know them but they are ‘masters’ at pandering to our fragile egos by making us feel so ’special’ and tapping into our desires
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:42am
blinded says:
i am still trying to recover from a sociopath, and i thought i had. i am now in a new relationship, but still find myself struggling from this mans abandonment. i feel like a horrible person because i love my new partner, but dont know why the sociopath still has a part of me.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:50am
shabbychic says:
blinded, as the esteemed writer Oxy would say, we are on a journey of healing, so once in a while you will hit a pot hole, or perhaps veer off the road a bit, but just embrace who you are, don’t beat yourself up over your struggles, they will pass, with each day they will pass a little bit more. Don’t feel like a horrible person, you went through so much, it sounds like you are doing very well!! A new partner to love, I think it’s wonderful. I guess a part of us wonders how we could be so hurt by someone but still long for them sometimes. Just let the feelings flow over you, and let them go. Just say “I release this feeling of anger” or I release this feeling of abandonment”. We have all gone through, or are currently going through (like me) exactly what’s happening to you. For me it all seems to calm down, I’m ok, then he slithers back for a sneaky “hello” I wasn’t expecting, which can set me back, but at least not back to square one. I know all this will pass, it will for me, and I know it will for you too!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 5:13am
Renewedhope says:
What did SHE want From me?
Good question!
In 27 years I am sure it changed. When she first met me and learned I wanted her.. Obviously she wanted a houseboy to do everything she didn’t want to do…along with another person’s money. She goes through that S mood cycle like Grant went through Richmond. What ever she faked to me in the beginning.. love, friendship.. never lasted longer than a month or more before that Mrs Hyde persona took over. And then watch out! Everything came out of her like Linda Blair’s green pea soup in the Exorcist! Everything like laying next to her at night and whispering those passionate words” I HATE YOU!” literally behind my back while I slept. To verbally insulting me to my face. Then the “OUT” times where she wasn’t in my life. Back to the friendship stage, where I kept my distance from her but still longed to be with her.(WTF! WHY?) Then me saying something for her to cross that line again from friendship at a distance to I love you and “I wondered why we never got together” Bull crap. Then watching that cycle happen all over again. In 27 years that happened 3 different times.You would think I would know better! And I really wondered this last time.. If you really loved me at all..AT ALL… Why couldn’t she respect the boundaries of friendship and let it go at that? But NO! She had to lie to me that she was DYING soon. Knowing I would expose my feelings to her again..and then running with it again. That was when I realized that this entire relationship for 27 years was just a big GAME with her. That she couldn’t even respect me as a friend. She had to lie about something as moral as death to try to manipulate me all over again!
Thank God I did the homework and woke up to her FINALLY!
She never wanted me. She hated me all along. But she didn’t want anyone else to have me either.
This time she lost big time. This time she lost me for good. And my wife as a friend. And last but not least a mutual friend who has finally realized that she is a sociopath and like me is cutting off all ties to her.
It is about time!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 5:28am
knowledgeempowers says:
Hello Renewedhope, Wow, your story hits home, the cycling part, only in my case it was 18 months and the cycling was much more frequent. I never did hear I hate you though. He NEVER would admit he didnt love me which is what I needed to hear so badly. It was untimatley up to ME to empower myself and just go into NC. While I still have questions the more I read and understand and realise these predators are out there and I am not alone in what I went through the stronger I become, more determined to never go through this again, to find and restore peace and happiness I once had without the P in my life.
Good luck to you, your name says loads about where you are in the letting go and moving on process!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:06am
Renewedhope says:
Dear knowledgeempowers ;
Of Course they would never tell us the truth: That they don’t really want us! They would rather be in CONTROL and string us along like puppets! A good person with a heart would have told us the truth so that we could have moved on. But NOOO! They have to be keep playing us like a child with a bug..and we are the bug. They will tear off all our limbs before they stomp on us for good.The funny thing is.. I KNOW that as mean as she was to me..she could have been alot worse..alot of sociopaths are.. so at least I left with my dignity in tact when I told her that I was on to her and what she was and that I never wanted to see or hear from her ever again. I have had a few week moments but so far- thank God! I have been total NC now for 7 weeks now and counting!
I attribute that success mainly to this site and to you folks here who wave been there and done that! Thanks everyone! Love you for that! XO
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:31am
knowledgeempowers says:
WooHoo! 7 weeks! So proud of you Renewedhope! Way to go! I know its a long hard road, but in the end our rewards, of a life without the P and all the crap, malice, and degredation that goes along with the relationship will be so worth the journey through the unknown and dealing with the emotional after effects.
Yes, this site is so helpful. I did read the bug analogy, bot the spider one and the one about play with it then flick it away, I have my own version of that, play with it, prod it, torture it, then flick it away when the P is done with it : )
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:42am
one_step_at_a_time says:
renewedhope – just want you to know i am out here and listening. i like your model of treating sociopaths as we do pedophiles. makes complete sense. and i think it will take the time for people ot understand about spaths as it has taken for people to understand the prevalence and effects of pedophiles.
keep going into week 8; may you be blessed with a lifetime of freedom.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 10:53am
Renewedhope says:
So..so..NICE to be heard! Thank You all!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 12:47pm
robxsykobabe says:
Id like to address something I have come to realize in my journey, particularly due to all the awesome people on LF…
In regards to the idea of us ‘allowing’ this to happen-
What I have learned is that by believing I was “IN” a relationship, I did the things normal people do while “IN” a relationship. I was skeptical at first, before knowing him, then as he showed me more and more of (a pretend) him, I trusted more and more, putting down my guard a little more and more, and becoming more and more vulnerable. In this process, he kept my confidences up in him with his ability to tap into ‘how he was’ at the beginning, and not unlike a drug that you chase the high of, I too ‘chased’ the image I had of him…relating to the beginning of our ‘relationship’.
I did not ALLOW him to use, manipulate, lie or cheat on me. I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS HAPPENING…and, in spite of feeling something was wrong, I was ‘hooked’ by the drug of MY choice…that he fed me bits and pieces of routinely…the IMAGE of ‘who he was’ at the beginning.
This is what seems to be so disheartening to me. My ‘blinders’ weren’t on totally, as I knew something was off, however, the spaths being MASTERS at hypnotizing and convincing others of the reality THEY want us to see ALLOWS THEM to continue with their game. It’s not us…
If they did present themselves initially as they actually ‘turn out to be’ (which, is in essence WHO THEY REALLY ARE), they would have NO chance with anyone. In order for them to engage in the “game’, they HAVE TO (and I mean this very strongly) pretend to be something diametrically opposite of what they really are…asswipes.
What this means is that when we do KNOW what is going on, then the action takes place. Their game is over…now, at THAT point, when we find out the truth, if we continue with them, THEN we ALLOW it to happen…but for many of us here, the minute we found out/realized what was happening, we were (and are moving) out the door!
To ‘allow’ insinuates we were ‘knowing’ of something but didnt DO anything about it. Really, how many of us KNEW what was going on? I sure the hell didnt…because Im NORMAL and compassionate and healthy, and trusting…and thats ok
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 1:53pm
knowledgeempowers says:
Well said robxsykobabe. I also had some subconscious doubts about him before ever entering into a reltionship with him. That is why I didnt pursue anything with him, while he had been a great fun friend at the time I didnt see him as a perspective partner.
I should have stuck with that and been more alert to my internal radar. But once he professed a broken heart because I was pursuing a relationship with someone else and I felt his feelings were true I opened my heart to him and eventually fell for him.
What a mistake that turned out to be.
Wish I would have gone with my own gut instincts, however dull they are, they are always right!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:02pm
learnthelesson says:
Robxsykobabe -
I agree with almost everything in your post.
Except for me…i really must admit…at the point he stopped presenting himself initially as he did…at the times I caught him in a lie…at the times he stole the money…once the jig was up…I was aware…I wasnt hypnotized or convinced…I was in denial…I was in a fantasy…I made excuses…had falsehope (he didnt mean it, it was just a bad choice, he will make good on it, he will pay back the money, he will never lie again..he wont cheat anymore…) for me I wasnt and didnt move out the door… so that is what I mean when i refer to the fact I allowed this to continue to happen by not making better choices at the very first lie, the very first infidelity, the very first emotional abuse. I was absolutely knowing of something and didnt DO anything about it…. my reasons were confusion, embarassment, feeling love for him, wanting it to get bettter, having compassion, and being trusting…. its all ok…but I was not my healthiest when i was knee deep in it with him – i didnt have the tools to SAY NO MORE..TO WALK OUT THE DOOR…TO NOT TAKE HIM BACK….but I was aware (not initially cuz his mask was on) — just in a fog — just inexperienced — just never before in such a place with a bad person.
Now if a S/P were to enter my life….I could easily never “allow” any of it to continue to happen once the very first lie, cheat, steal happens. Because I have the tools and the self-awarness now of what to do and what not to do. I can deal with the reality of what an S/P chooses to do to me – and I can walk away immediately. I couldnt do that before.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:07pm
knowledgeempowers says:
They so cleverly make things your fault. The first lie, the first infidelity, all put back on me. Too much pressure, I heard that one alot. But it wasnt pressure, it was the desire for him to show me that who he claimed to be he really was, and the frustration that went along with that.
What he claimed was pressure was me wanting him to follow through on promises and plans we had made. They came from his mouth, why wouldnt I expect him to follow through on them?
and yet, i stayed, over and over an over, i stayed for that hope, that dream he presented that he created in my mind and heart, the dream and promises he never intended to follow through wtih, until at last i saw the light and realised they were all empty words and I could take NO MORE HURT!
Tired of the frustration, the doubt, the worry, the guilt, the accusations against me for his own choices and behavior. I HAD ENOUGH!
During my relationship with the P my blood pressure was way up, I had always had low blood pressure my entire life and only during this relationship was it up. To the point the doc wanted to put me on high blood pressure meds. Within a week of NC (and my final decision I was DONE!) I had my blood pressure checked and low and behold what do you know, back to low!!
Its amazing how the stress of these relationships effects us not only mentally, and emotionally but also physically.
Once I was so upset with him I even slammed my fist on the desk out of anger, frustration and hurt. Injured myself but good with this, had a huge bruise and could barely move my hand for days.
Enough was enough!
I am taking my life back! Finding some happiness and joy once again, something I have been lacking for oh so long!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:22pm
knowledgeempowers says:
He can rot in hell and will I am sure for all the hurt he has caused to loads of women. He will NEVER hve a good functional relationship, ever, and you know what? I DONT CARE! I cant help him, I tried, once i realised he was messed up, i thought my love could help him, but there is NO HELP for these ppl. I can only help myself!
He talked always about how miserable his life really was, and in some ways I do believe that was a truth. I have contemplated often if they realise they can not and never will feel love (afterall, that is the best feeling a person can feel) and because of this it makes them even worse?
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:27pm
knowledgeempowers says:
Sorry all, I still have residual anger about this, I am working through it and working on getting to a better place within myself.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 2:45pm
robxsykobabe says:
knowledgeempowers and learnthelesson
Knowledge:
No need to apologize….you are right where you need to be. Sometimes, at least for me, it was difficult to hear other peoples responses because to me they seemed so much further along than I was. Then they would post something about having a melt down and it made me realize the rollercoaster we ALL are on…and its ok. Some days Im strong and others, well, if you read some of my posts, youll see Im crumbling….Its been 14 weeks NC and it DOES get easier…not fast…but it happnes.
Learnthelesson:
Ahhhh…the old falsehope. Yes. They show what their ‘potential’ is at the beginning and creat the FOG. That hope carries us through some pretty shitty ass times and in the meantime, their seams are slowly busting. We, though, are hoping so badly that what they are showing us has a ‘reason’ behind it as it CANT be what it is in front of us!
Nice response…you added insight to my rant…and now Ill think about that one too!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 3:15pm
Rosie says:
Knowledge – you have every right to be angry as you invested alot of time int this guy and gave him the beenfit of the doubt.
There are some great articles on here written by Steve Becker and others..I’m finding them extremely helpful
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 4:46pm
OxDrover says:
Dear R-Babe,
That realizing that no matter how great things are going you can STILL have the occasional melt down, and should not feel ASHAMED of it. I a concept I have had to learn. When I had my latest melt down over a month ago when I got “triggered” by a couple of things at once, one I expected, one I didn’t, I felt so “guilty” and it was difficult for me to post because “I should be beyond that now”—but I decided that to be ashamed and guilty because of MY reaction to a couple of bad situations was not a good reaction, it was NOT MY bad behavior that brought on my melt down, and I had nothing to be ashamed of, I was not the one who lied, I should not feel guilty because the crime wasn’t MINE, but someone else’s.
Sure, I was hurt, and also stressed with the upcoming project I have to do (going through my P-son’s letters etc) and I melted. Even the “strongest” of us melt down from time to time, but the thing I have found is, that (1) those melt downs don’t last as long (2) usually aren’t as deep (3) we ALREADY have the “tools” to FIX THEM. Denying that we have them, or covering them up just so we can appear “stronger” to others isn’t being honest I don’t think. I’m pretty HONEST here, and I DO want people on this site to think “Well” of me, but if I only show my peeps on here jONLY my “good side” I am not being truly HONEST. If I can’t be honest with those closest to me, and to my LF Peeps, then who in the world CAN I be truly honest with?
If nothing else, maybe my example of my melt down will give someone else comfort that their own melt down doesn’t mean they are “losing it” but is just a temporary pot hole in the Road To Healing” and we’ll get back up on our feet and keep on walking.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 February 2010 @ 4:53pm
neveragain says:
Malaria is caused by a parasite. Once you have had it, you are suspect-able to having mild flare ups in times of stress to your system.
Same with the malaise caused by the parasite that psychopaths are. Once you’ve been exposed to one, you are suspect-able to having mild (or worse) flare ups in times of stress to your system.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 March 2010 @ 12:55pm
OxDrover says:
Dear neveragain,
GOOD POINT!!!!
There is TREATMENT for malaria though that kills the parasite in your system! To stop the flare ups! I’m not sure there is such a one-shot treatment for the parasites of the soul though! LOL
I do know that we have to work hard to keep our system healthy and that flare ups will decrease in both frequency and intensity!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 20 March 2010 @ 2:56pm
ErinBrock says:
Peeps have been asking about this topic lately….
trying to get rid of that 600post thread!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 5:36pm
erin1972 says:
Can I please have a day where I am not thinking about this man at all? I would love that. Today I’m thinking about what an idiot he is. I am thinking about boundaries and not selling myself short ever again. I am thinking about Steve Harvey saying to “not give up the cookie for at least 90 days when you’re dating someone”.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 6:00pm
silvermoon says:
Erin,
This can be that day. Your decision.
Ask, what part of yourself did he really speak to? The part that doesn’t feel good enough? And what did he say and do to make that part of you feel taken care of?
What happens if you talk to yourself like you were the parent or caretaker he was supposed to be? What happens when that pleading voice inside you is quieted and not begging for him because it wants that attention?
What if you say to yourself, I will be present in this moment and he is not here in it? What if you say to yourself that you accept his loss and really make yourself feel like you are living in your body by bringing the energy up through it so you can feel and ground every part.
Think this sounds weird- well, it kind of is. I got it off Eckhardt Tolle’s Gateways to NOW and you know what, It worked!
I find that when I slip back out of the present, that is when I get haunted. So I have to come back to now through the process. It gets better and better over time. There are some things that trigger me- some of the songs on the Ipod, so I turned it off and have had a couple of great days.
Yeah, he was an idiot. He had you and all he needed to do was be real and you’d have been right THERE.
Well, ya jes cain’t fix stupid…….:)
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 6:29pm
erin1972 says:
silver-I’m not begging for him and I don’t want him. I am not out of the anger phase yet. I went shock and pain and sadness and that lasted a very very long time. Now I have anger towards him and towards me.
I just can’t stop thinking about it. He thought that it was acceptable to keep me hidden away and wasn’t willing to completely be out in public with me. That is so not fair to me-and I allowed it. He kept someone like ME hidden away-how stupid is he? He passed on me-someone phenomenal to settle with someone average-but thank God he did.
I sold short with him. I don’t know why I thought is was better to have a part time relationship with the man I thought I loved, end it or risk or losing him. He is NO prize. Yeah-he’s gorgeous and sexy but really-that is not enough for a man to hide me. I deserve to be put first. I am still at the point where I want him to suffer large amounts of pain. I’m just mad at all of it.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 6:39pm
silvermoon says:
Oh, I get that and I am sure when its time to settle up in hell. he will be overdrawn on his karma account.
The thing I was trying to say is that the part of us, that connects to them wants to be taken care of. And in a way your anger is you rising to your own defense in a magnificent and beautiful way.
Like a Phoenix, the fire bird which self destructs and rises again from its own ashes.
Where you are is a good place because of where you are going and you’re making a good pace too.
Thank God he did. Phenomenal women desrev WAY better – like being regarded as THE PRIZE.
You can’t be angry with yourself for having thought you loved him. You were doing the best you could at the time. Now, you know so much more about what love is and how it works right that you won’t do that again. Selling short is a market gamble with a lot of risk. I think the new boundaries have much to do with lower risk alternative investments!
I learn more and more from YOU! Keeping up with your reading pace isn’t easy:) and its good that you are doing so much to help yourself understand and recreate.
Nah, he didn’t deserve you and he still doesn’t know what he missed. I promise, I’ll never tell!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 6:55pm
erin1972 says:
silver-you’re sweet-thanks. According to Steve Harvey’s book, I loved him exactly the way a woman is supposed to love a man. He did selective things that would prove his love but I believe they were done only to keep me snared. I can’t say if any of it was legit or not. He did provide for me-on some levels. He was definitely my protector. If a another doctor treated me bad at work, knew about it and suddenly the next day, that guy would be sweet as pie, apologizing and kissing my ass. The biggest thing that he didn’t do was PROFESS.
Steve says that men love differently than women. If a man loves you he will PROFESS, PROVIDE, AND PROTECT-the three P’s. He didn’t profess to anyone but me. If a man isn’t introducing you to his friends, family, loved ones within a few months, he doesn’t see you in his long term plans. He kept me hidden. To me that means that he DID NOT love me. Once I read the book, I quit questioning if he loved me or not. I will make sure to read this book again once I become ready for another relationship-but not until I graduate from the police academy.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 7:19pm
tobehappy says:
Hey Erin….
You need to read the Betrayal Bond. It explains how the “bond” is so difficult for us. Once I realized why…because of the “early bond”…I feel like I’m cured of the “obsession” with him. And, The Power of Now describes how our “minds” and “Thoughts” are controlling US. And, we need to control THEM. Thinking of the past (which is over) and the future, (having anxiety and worrying) is what causes our own SELF DESTRUCTION.
Once I read that and understood how to be anything but in the NOW….I block the past and future out of my mind and focus on what I am doing NOW…..it helps so much.
Its true.. The situations in life that happenned in our past, are over. Can’t go back ..can’t change them…it was what it was.
And, the future….we can only plan just so much…We don’t know tomorrow…if we will be killed by a car backing out of our driveway…or…if we will hit the lottery!
This book explained how all you have is NOW. So, I tried applying what I read…and I feel peaceful.
No sense thinking of what happenned…we learned from it. It was just a lesson that taught us something to help us be a better person.
I saw my socio sister in a store today, and she yelled…”Hey, 2b….” as if nothing happenned. Well, she DIDN”T suck me in again. I kept a straight face and walked in the other direction.
I thought about what she has done to me in the past and I refuse to give her the opportunity to turn on me again. I have saved her life several times..took her in…and all she ever did is stab me in the back…This has gone on for 30 yrs!!
Finally I LOVE ME!!! I will never let anyone hurt me again. I am wiser and stronger and I won’t let my thoughts even think of the xmonster. Oh,…they creep in…and I just Force myself to think about ME….a NEW me…I picture myself riding my bike….
Its like changing the channel! And it works!!!
Get those two books ERin and read them.
You will feel like a new person.
I promise. You’ll realize why you have this “bond” with him…and you’ll learn how to control your thoughts.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 7:31pm
erin1972 says:
tobe-thanks. I got to wait for a bit to get more books. I have been spending a lot lately and I have a big truck payment due by 4/23. I will get more later. I still thought about that stupid woman again today. I don’t what my problem is. Maybe Satan is testing me. I am missing sex so much. It’s hard for me.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 7:36pm
jelltogether says:
Tobe, I see that you have grown so much and I admire it. It seems that in such a short time, you have been able to reconcile all that has happened to you. Good for you.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 7:51pm
tobehappy says:
I understand. All I can tell you is that when I realized that I was dealing with a “disease” …not a person…..I stopped all of the anger and trying to figure it out. It was a dysfunctional situation and I have spent alot of time trying to work on ME now. Why, if I know that I don’t want a “disease” to deal with…was I obsessed with thinking about him? I found my answer in The Betrayal Bond. The answer made me realize that it was “trauma bonding” that kept me thinking about him. Then I realized that evertime…since I was in my early twenties and ended r/s’s with sociopaths….I ALWAYS dwelled on them after I left them! Why? TRAUMA BONDING!!!
Once I understood this…then I was able to stop thinking of him. It left me.
So, I got rid of the “disease”and now I am working on ME. MY dysfunction….which is “trauma bonding” from childhood!!!
Funny, but once I started to work on my inner healing..which the workbook pages have you do in the book…..I had a HUGE weight lifted off of me!!! I RAN to get the book. It will be the best 14 dollars you ever spent. You need to buy that book ASAP! Skip lunch tomorrow…lol FIND the money. It will take the pain away. Its work…but you can do it in one or two nights.
You don’t miss the “sex”. You miss the feeling that you were loved…and desired…and wanted…and on some unconscious level….the “trauma bond” which sex keeps reinforcing!
Its okay to think about things, but you have to work on the dysfunction in you that made you get involved with a “disease”.
Understanding yourself will bring you peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 8:00pm
tobehappy says:
Jell….I had no choice to work this out of me. I have 3 young teenage girls to take care of…a house that I’m trying to save…and lots of stuff going on in my life.
I HAD to get to the root of this. Actually, I was NC for three months last summer and went back with him from October to February. It was over in NOVEMBER in my mind…and heart.
So, its been awhile. I ended it last April. But, I went back and forth since then.
I have read SO much on Narcissism, Sociopaths…etc…
I have also read about MY issues.
Once I validated that I was with a “sick” person….and that I don’t want him or anyone like him ever again….
I started to work on understanding ME.
THe Betrayal Bond had me do alot of work. Its a workbook.
That is what finally made me realize what “I” was all about…how messed up “I” am to keep doing this to myself over and over and over.
I am getting older. I can’t afford to make any more mistakes that will hurt me ….because it will hurt my girls!
I came too far with them to fall apart now. So, I searched for answers and …THANKS to THIS board….I listened to what other people suggested…books to read….articles on here…and I educated myself and its working.
I am DETERMINED and I feel like a new person already.I’ve changed so much. I don’t “people please” anymore…I don’t “like everyone ” anymore…I don’t trust “indiscriminately” anymore. If anything…I am WISER and STRONGER than I’ve ever been in my life!!!!!!!!
And, I am happier too. I don’t even think of the happiness that I felt with the xsocio…..it was all a dream in my own head. I fantasized the whole thing. He sucked me into the fantasy….and then….I WOKE UP!
When I realized that it was one sided….that it was only ME truly loving ….that I was loving a “disease” not a real person……
Well…at this point…I’m glad I got out and woke up.
As good as the good parts were…the bad was AGONY.
Not worth it.
So…its been a long haul…but I am determined to go on and keep on learning and working on making me the best ME I could be.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 8:12pm
erin1972 says:
tobe-I just feel kind of lonely tonight. I miss curling up with a man and being held tightly and all that. I never enjoyed sex until I met him. I hope that one day I will eventually be able to enjoy it again. I’m just afraid that it won’t ever happen. I’m afraid that I could fine”the one” and not be able to have sex with him because of this guy. Idon’t know how I can ever do it without crying. I do plan on getting the book but I am apprehensive. Does it have a lot of stuff about sexual abuse in it? That makes me uncomfortable.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 8:14pm
flowerpower says:
Tobe..I am new here but readiing your post is very encouraging. I can tell you are strong and healing. Such wisdom to live in each day. We cant look back or ahead too far. Today is all we have.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 8:24pm
tobehappy says:
Erin…you will heal and this will all be history, and you WILL have a NORMAL relationship one day. But, you have to change. You can’t stay the same. You have to face your issues. Otherwise you will just repeat the same “trauma drama” over and over in your life..like “I” did!!! I wish I was your age and KNEW all of this!!! It would have saved me years of misery. The book doesn’t have anything about sexual abuse in it. In my case…I was just verbally and physically abused..not sexually, at home. It was enough to mess me up and make me attract more abuse as I got older.
I wasn’t AWARE of it…thats the difference.
Its NOT “comfortable” to face your messed up childhood. I cried more in the past month than I did my whole life. Its called “healing”. I thank God I have support…some good friends and this board!
I NEVER told anyone in this entire world….something that I remembered throught this whole “process”. I was raped at age 12/13 by a city worker in my town!!! THIS came out of me somehow…came up! I NEVER told a soul that! Not even my closest friend!!!!!!! I buried it for so long…and somehow…the night I first got onto this board…when I was having a major meltdown….I THOUGHT of it. IT friggin surfaced!!!
Being conscious of this….made me realize WHY I am so messed up!!! It was actually healing to remember it. It made me realize that it isn’t my FAULT that I was victim AGAIN to a socio….because I was VICTIMIZED by my own mother as well as this older man!!!!! No wonder I NORMALIZED a diseased persons behavior!!
Yes, Erin…if you want to change and grow and learn..its painful. BUt, if you don’t go through it now…and just avoid your feelings…you will just attract another SICK man…
YOU have to be WELL…in order to attract a person who is WELL…not sick.
GOt it??
FLowerpower…….I am happy to hear that my experience can help others…I would never wish my “issues” on anyone.
Thats why I raised my 3 angels SO differently….to make up for my awful childhood!!!
I really love my life now. I like being alone. I don’t miss being used and abused. It was all a fantasy….
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 8:52pm
jelltogether says:
You are so right Tobe, you really do have to face your issues and move foreward. And Erin, I understand that need to be held and comforted. I am recovering from surgery and there were times when I just wanted “him” here to help me and comfort me but then I realized that he wouldn’t be here for me anyway~ he didn’t like to be around if you were sick. It’s all illusion with them and we contribute to the illusion by believing that they were EVER really there for us. They weren’t. Yes the sex was good, yes it was fantastic to be held–for US. They weren’t really present except to get what they wanted from us. They are able to shape shift into what we need to get what they want. They can’t sustain that shape though, they have to morph back into what they really are-the real them.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:03pm
tobehappy says:
Erin…I think that if you found a good therapist to talk to, they could guide you through your “family of origin” issues that made you what you are today. Maybe its too much to do on your own. I just found someone local until I can afford to go to Steve on here. Sometimes we need professional help…someone to GUIDE us through it and validate our feelings. If we don’t go back into our childhoods..to understand things..we just might repeat them.
What you miss was a relationship you THOUGHT you had.
YOu were with a man who is DISORDERED and can’t love or give. LIke Jell said…it was all an illusion….or he would be there with you now.
You have to POP into reality. Wake up and realize that you were dealing with a dangerous hurtful cheating liar.
Don’t you feel you deserve better than that????? Come on Erin!!!! I think you do!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:16pm
jelltogether says:
You definitely do Erin!. You need support and help figuring it all out. I know that I did. I have found a therapist who understands what kind of person I was in a relationship with and it helping me see that I can heal and move forward. Every day right now is a struggle to realize that I can never rationalize what he has done to me and I can move forward without making sense of it. I really do understand your need to feel the way you did when you were with him but just keep remembering the things that he has done to hurt you. Focus on that because it helps you to live in the reality of what he has done and how much you don’t want to feel like that again.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:24pm
tobehappy says:
I agree. You have to heal from the abuse. The only way to heal is to go THROUGH it. From day one of abuse…so that you stop beating yourself up for what happenned.
Once I understood MYSELF and MY role in the dysfunctional relationship…I didn’t DWELL on the r/s. I dwelled on ME.
I realized that “I” NEED HELP!!!
Socios never get help…my x wouldn’t even go to counselling for us…he was SCARED! He said…”Oh..its only one persons opinion..and everyone has one like everyone has an a&&hole”
Can you imagine such an IGNORANT statement??
He will probably not believe his cardiac doctor someday!!!!! lol
Anyway…anyone who is victimized by these monsters has “issues” to work on.
I’m glad that he came into my life…he made me a STRONGER person than I have ever been. I wish I felt THIS confident and strong when I was 18. I would have pursued my career to be a medical doctor!!! I couldn’t handle the schooling because my socio MOM was sucking me into her hell at the time..divorcing my Dad!!! UGH!!!!
Funny, but a text just came in on my phone…from someone…it says…
Concentrate on this sentence: To get something you never had, you hae to do something you never did” When God takes something from your grasp, He’s not punishing you , but merely opening your hands to receive something better.
Love urself.
Hmmmm…from a friend I rarely hear from…..
Its a “Godwink” lol
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:38pm
erin1972 says:
tobehappy and jelltogether, thanks.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 9:44pm
erin1972 says:
I just ordered “The Betrayal Bond” and the “Disease To Please”.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 30 March 2010 @ 11:32pm
tobehappy says:
HEy Erin….I’m so HAPPY you ordered that book. Make sure you take your time and DO THE WORK.
You need to do one thing before you move onto another.
You will “find yourself” and learn about yourself in this book.
Then, the r/s with your x will be irrelevant.
You will realize that it all has nothing to do with him..its all about YOU.
Its all about why you ever got involved with him in the first place…and why….
It cured me…I swear.
I never read the Disease to Please…reading the Power of Now book…pretty profound….
gotta read over and over
Basically….how not to think of the past or future…its a waste of time……
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 8:29pm
Matt says:
erin1972:
One book I also can recommend that helped me immeasurably is “If You Had Controlling Parents” by Dan Neuharth. It helped fill in the gaps I had after reading “Betrayal Bond”. What I couldn’t get my head around was how the hell I became such a people pleaser and so easily controlled. Neuharth’s book cleared it all up beautifully. He breaks it down by the types of control parents use. The book was an eyeopener and I can’t recommend it highly enough.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 8:39pm
tobehappy says:
Hey, check this out. I have my profile on some dating sites and some guy sent me his email address …so Iemailed him for the heck of it. I’m NOT into dating right now…but he lives across the country….
So, he emailed me back and we got onto a chat on yahoo.
We chatted small talk and I asked him about him. He went on and on about his life. He never asked my name. He called me “sweety and pretty woman”…ugh!
I told him that before I met anyone I would need to do a background check on them….
As soon as I did that…he said he was tired and going to bed and never even said goodbye!! LOLOLOL!
I knew he was a phony……
YES.>THEY ARE OUT THERE!!!
The root canal specialist today told me that his daughter is single and dating and keeps meeting men who are LIARS!!!!
OMG……I think I’ll just fall in love with myself from now on!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 8:39pm
OxDrover says:
Dear 2B,
Take down that profile GF! What do you need to go fishing in the sewers for ? Turds! That’s all you will catch!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 8:51pm
erin1972 says:
Matt-thanks you so much. I will do that. If I had done what I wanted with my life instead of being controlled and being the people pleaser, I NEVER would have met this pathetic man and my life would be the way I want RIGHT NOW instead of still waiting for it at age 37. I would have been in my dream career for years already and promoted and done with my PhD and on NYPD-stead of struggling to make the paycut so I can quit this stupid job and be on NOPD. We did I let them run my life once I turned 18? I should have run away like I wanted and joined the military. They were all over trying to get me. My dad wouldn’t sign my away when I was 17 and I should have gone anyway as soon as I turned 18.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 9:38pm
erin1972 says:
tobe-having a profile up like that is really playing with fire, especially now-It will do nothing but keep you in a place where you don’t want to be.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 9:51pm
conomo says:
ToBe: Just checking in here and the first thing i say was peeps telling you to take your profile down…..I REALLY HOPE YOU DID!!~I’ve thought I should at times, but wasn’t allowed…so that tells me you NEED to do this if you haven’t already!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 10:12pm
tobehappy says:
Yes…I know. I get these emails that someone is interested in me…and they are ALL ridiculous! Waste of time and I don’t really want to have a man in my life right now…at ALL!
I will be deleting my profiles tonite…
Thanks everyone!
Goodnight Erin…hope you are doing ok…..
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 10:34pm
conomo says:
Good Girl!! Happy Easter…whatever that means to you….:)
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 10:48pm
tobehappy says:
Easter always meant a NEW BEGINNING to me…
This year…it really IS a new beginning!!!
Happy Easter to all!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 10:52pm
geminigirl says:
Dear Everyone, Yes, Happy Happy Easter to all you FANTASTIC, clever, smart, beautiful, deserving super dooper guys a nd gals on LF!!Eat the chocolate,you DESERVE it! Oxy babe and I KNOW fore SURE that it constitutes one of the main food groups, LOL,{actually there are 4, dark choc, light choc, white choc and cocoa.}Oxy and I have been Nurses, so you gotta believe us!
We are all of us on our way to a Happy Spath free life!
TOWANDA!! And Happy Easter again!
Hope the Easter Bunny doesnt crap all over your Easter cake!
Im all for new beginnings! Remember peeps, when we have a bad day, we USED TO HAVE BAD YEARS!!!LOL!!
Much Love and Easter Huggles,MamaGem,XXXX
Ps There is a new book out by Joyce Meyer, its called”Eat the cookie, buy the shoes!”"Life is short!We will all have a”Hippy Easter”,as choc goes straight to the hips!
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 1 April 2010 @ 2:31am
erin1972 says:
Good morning everyone-getting ready for work and thought I’d say hello. Today is my late day-10:00 to 6:30 but guarateed to be there later and also on call all night. Actually I’m on call four nights in a row-who did I piss off? Oh well-I could use the OT this week I guess. Waiting for some more educational books to get here so I can continue to find out why I am the ultimate s’path magnet. Have a good day everyone.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 1 April 2010 @ 8:37am
Godschild1 says:
I recently just realized a few days ago from a friend that recommended a book for me to read called Why does he do that? That I have been dealing with a sociapath for 10 years of my life. I have tried to figure this man out for the longest and always knew that something was wrong with him, and not me but, going thru the charateristics of a sociapath I see him in every one. I have struggled many years with pain and sorrow, low self esteem because of all the infidelities i found out about and the constant lies. Just living with someone you don’t trust but don’t want to let go of is torture in itself. I just can’t believe someone who tells you they love you and acts crazy about you would treat someone so cold and callous. I have too much to say when it comes to my ex. I still deal with him due to the fact we have two kids together, everything makes sense now and knowing that there was nothing I could have done to save my relationship with him helps me to understand that I did everything I could have done. I hate the fact that I am still being abused by him from the constant thoughts I have every minute of the day of how much I put up with this man. I knew he was troubled it took me some time to grasp that because he lied so much I just felt like I wanted to help him. I can’t wait until the day comes when he is completely out of my system. I am just baffled that these people exist. I recall a time when I would tell him that he is a liar, cheater, manipulater, have no conscience, user, gigolo, coldhearted, mean, when he would treat me bad and have me emotionally drained and upset. The only thing I knew he was good at when I think back on it is that he is very charming and he would just say things that made me feel loved, the sex was great. In realization that was the only time we really got along well together and when I didn’t complain about what he did which was rare, because he was always up to something. He was always secretive, and I never fully trusted him, even after the first 6 months of dating. I have ran through every emotion from feeling stupid, angry, wanting revenge, still loving him, wanting him, hoping he will change, wanting to believe him when he tells me he loves me and the kids although his actions say differently, I don’t know whether to feel sorry for him because of his disorder of not being able to feel love for someone only imitate it. He definitely was a good actor. But I know he also is miserable and have bouts of depression. He sometimes wonders what is wrong with him because he says he loves me he just has a funny way of showing it. He still bothers me from time to time because we have kids together and I have to stay strong because he knows how to push my buttons and have me doing stupid things for him again,like giving him my sex and money. Knowing what i know now I feel that finally I can move on for good because he will never change and even now he is with someone much younger and he tells me she is just a piece of ass, but if she hasn’t picked up the red flags she is definitely getting ready to go on a emotional roller coaster ride. I hope he leaves me alone and doesn’t try to make my life even more miserable because I told him we need to move on from each other for good it’s not healthy for us or the kids and we all deserve to be happy and I have even started dealing with him differently. But he has always told me I’m stuck with him for life. and there were many years I believed that but not now. He tells me I make him suicidal. All in all I just want to get away from this without being a victim and I mean that in a physical way. He has very serious anger problems. I know I’ve said alot and I probably am all over the place, but he has done so much to me in the last 10 years I am just throwing out bits and pieces. Sometimes I can’t even believe how I still care for him. I feel sick! I really need to take care of me and love me to be thinking about this fool. He really lost a wonderful woman and two beautiful kids. He is the loser. To think this is all a game to him just disgust me. Can’t believe I attracted a predator!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 April 2010 @ 4:17am
Donna Andersen says:
Godschild,
Welcome to Lovefraud, although we’re sorry you need to join us. There are many articles in the archives that will help you to understand what you are dealing with and help you be strong as you put him out of your life. Just click on the categories on the left side of the screen.
Best wishes in your journey of recovery.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 April 2010 @ 8:31am
silvermoon says:
Dear Godschild,
We’ll be right here because we’ve been right there.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 April 2010 @ 8:40am
angelforyou says:
Godschild,
Yes. Charming is wonderful. But, not congruent with their actions.
You will find hope, support, validation, and so much more here.
WE want to and try to trust THEM. THEY accuse US, and blame US, and place guilt on US for daring to question further. We are thrown off balance. Bottom line THEY do not RESPECT us.
Red flag. Never being able to fully TRUST him. Why why why. QUESTION FURTHER! Then he turns it around on us. Oh my, WHAT was THAT? DON’T BACK DOWN! BUT they controlled us. And we did back down, not ever knowing the answers. Not allowing full trust.
He is the LOSER, Cheater, Liar, User. NOT to be trusted. Which WE WANT to. It is our core human nature to trust…until they hurt us. Then we are wary. Which says PREDATOR to me.
Welcome Godschild. There is so much good information here to READ.
This site of Donna’s is FULL of respect, insight, information, and is helpful in our soul search. We are all at various stages of healing and discovery.
We are here. We KNOW the feelings.
Going through such SIMILAR things. Same stories. Ups. Downs. Learning. Growing. Finding boundaries. What allowed them to gain entrance and run around in our lives. Hijacking our emotions and souls.
Take Care. And prayers for you and your children,
Angel
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 April 2010 @ 10:00am
OxDrover says:
Welcome Godschild,
Glad you found this place to help you heal! Keep on reading and learning. We start out I think learning about them and what they do, but it eventually becomes a journey about finding out about ourselves and why we put up with this abuse, but we learn to stop abuse in our lives—not only from the psychopath but from abusing ourselves as well, or allowin others to abuse us.
KNOWLEDGE=POWER and we take back our power. Welcome! You are at a good place here! God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 April 2010 @ 10:07am
flowerpower says:
Godschild, so sorry for your experience but you have found a safe and validating place. I just recently joined and am amazed by the similarities in stories when I read members histories.
I did see that you have seen or speak to him??If that is correct, you must have no contact with him to heal.Do not answer his phone calls. Text or email ONLY about the children ONLY.
Block his no. if you dont have the will power yet. Ten years of “brain washing” is hard to overcome. His voice will trigger you. His typed words will trigger. No response to emotional junk…and get ready, because when you do this, he will intensify.
It may even help to have a friend or family member “screen” his emails and tell you how to respond. Protect your mind and thoughts. He is manipulating them with the “suicide” talk etc.
All business, ignore his baits. Email or text for the children’s info only. The only way to escape , reclaim your sanity and POWER…is no contact!! God Bless
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 April 2010 @ 10:31am
hitandrun says:
Hello all. I’ve been lurking in the forum and feel led to share my recent experience. I am confused and hurt and just want to die most of the time. What I cannot fathom is how my ex P could appear so loving and caring to everyone else…taking care of his neices and nephews…everyone thought he was the greatest guy.
But after he’d been drinking, he would say how much he hated people, I seem to be the only one who heard it…hmmm.
Okay, here is what happened. Stupid me allowed him to sweep me off my feet 9 months ago. He said all the right things, was sweet, amazing lover, bought me gifts, emailed and called daily.
Serendipity, soulmates, kismit…this is why I never married before because I was waiting for you…oh geez! The only red flag I saw was when he occassionally went drinking with his buddies, he just got ridiculously drunk and lost things and blacked out…never abusive. This was a long distance relationship and we saw each other every weekend. Neither one of us had been married before(he’s 38 and I am 44).
So he proposed, he asked for my Dad’s permission, got a great ring…everybody loved him. He was never abusive to me.
Just found out at the end he told many many lies. When we started looking for a place to live, he started exhibiting passive aggressive behavior and not following through. He also was pulling back. I asked him if he wanted out or needed time and he insisted he wanted me up there.
After me coming up with spreadsheets for our budget, since he was opening a new restaurant and I was moving my business, he insisted that he had an IRA he was cashing out that we would use to set up housekeeping and elope. There always seemed to be a problem with this check arriving and I called him on it.
I was the one who put the deposit down on the apartment.
One week before I was supposed to move, he sent me and EMAIL after having a great weekend together(he bought me boxes and stuff) and him looking me straight in the eye saying he needed to prove it to me that he had this check and loved me, saying he wasn’t coming and we needed to talk.
The talk was he just couldn’t do it. So I had to scramble to get the lease canceled(he owes me money on this) and keep my place. I felt like I was run over by a mack truck!
He said he didn’t know why and that’s about all I’ve heard from him. He’s living in happy land with his new restaurant open that I pushed into existence, ignoring my request for money, and getting drunk with his friends. His whole family is a bunch of alcoholics and I am not exaggerating(found this out later spending much time with them) Will file court papers tomorrow..just great.
He told me he hadn’t had many serious relationships…liar!
3 years previously he pulled the same sh*t on a 21 year old.
That makes me wanna vomit. Just found this out. Probably told her all the same things he told me.
I loved this man, or what I thought was this man. How does everyone think he is so great? I feel like hell and can’t seem to function very well. I have been erased, like I do not exist.
I am grieving the loss of something that did not exist and a dream is dead. Need to find a new dream but getting out of bed is a major accomplishment these days. And he goes on with a great new life.
Thanks for listening. Any insight advice is appreciated.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 12:28pm
Zen says:
hitandrun:
“I loved this man, or what I thought was this man. How does everyone think he is so great? I feel like hell and can’t seem to function very well. I have been erased, like I do not exist.
I am grieving the loss of something that did not exist and a dream is dead. Need to find a new dream but getting out of bed is a major accomplishment these days. And he goes on with a great new life.
Thanks for listening. Any insight advice is appreciated.”
You loved the person you THOUGHT he was not him. Why do people think he is so great? That is his roll he’s a very good actor and what he wants people to see is a great guy. Watch Dexter~
You’re probably grieving for a lot of things, what could’ve been, grieving the loss of who you thought he was, you’re lonely and one day after you get some distance, you’ll see that you are lucky in a lot of ways. You’re probably saying WHAT?~ many people who have been taken by sociopaths have far, far worse stories, you could’ve married him and had kids or had worse things happen. I know you probably can’t hear this now but one day you will, I promise you that. Take heart!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 2:32pm
CAmom says:
Dear Hitandrun,
They can appear in as many ways as they want, in my experience. And family often don’t see what others can see.
They may see *something* but chalk it up to “That’s just how(insert name) is!” Both good and bad.
I used to think the spaths in my life had “great” lives….I don’t think so any longer. They aren’t great in a way we’d want our lives to be great. My sister is a spath, and her life looks great from the outside. Really great. Tons of money, fans, attention. But very empty inside.
I think that’s important to remember–they are empty. They are not *happy* because they can’t be. They can appear happy, that’s about it.
Feeling like you’ve been erased & don’t exist…yes, know how that feels. They often do that because looking back, trying to make something wrong they did right, or at least explain, or apologize or acknowledge or make amends is not what they usually do. It seems their M.O. is to carry on, move on, and not look back.
What is in their rear view mirror is not important to them. Including their own children, their families (if their family is no longer useful for them) their friends, their lovers.
Grieving the loss of something that did not exist—that’s something most of us here are doing, or have done, or have in front of us.
I am learning to not take any spath crap personally because it isn’t personal–it isn’t about you as an individual. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time…and he probably did tell the 21 year old what he told you. In my experience, they do tend to repeat behaviours they find work for them.
Try not to fixate on his great new life. It isn’t great. It will never be great. It is not a life you would want. And you are fortunate he didn’t go through with the marriage. Really fortunate, although it may not feel that way right now.
You dodged a bullet. (And would you really want to live with an alcoholic?–I grew up with one–it’s hell) My ex husband was a spath and I wish I had never met him. I wish he had just used me for a while and dumped me—it would have been hard, but not as hard as going through a sham marriage was.
And I’d been single (divorced) for 21 years before meeting him. And had a life I enjoyed. You’ve heard of love bombing on this site…that’s what your ex did. He made it all seem so wonderful and everyone loved him? Typical, unfortunately.
I’m sorry this happened. Sorry you are here. It does get easier, getting out of bed will get easier. The loss is hard, but you are mourning an illusion. Classic spath loss. Maybe knowing it was an illusion will make it a bit easier. And knowing you are so much better off that it ended when it did…I so wish I had not gone through years with my ex–horrible years wasted and can never recover them…
Stay here and read and post…we know what you’re going through.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 2:42pm
hitandrun says:
Thanks CAmom.
It’s been 29 days since he dropped the bomb and I just keep feeling worse by the day. I’ve always thought I was a strong person, but I have allowed this to level me. Need to toughen up and focus on what is good…I am being extremely double-minded. It’s not that I want him back, it is more like I wish I had a conscious choice to say
” I don’t want you assh*le.” But I did not get that choice.
And I wonder how you ever trust anyone again…I’m sure I will.
But what compares to fantasy-land,where everything is perfect, until the rug gets pulled out from under you? So naive…I never knew people lied like that except on Lifetime TV.
I see a lot of posts about people leaving the spaths, but not as many being left. Will look for “love bombing.”
All of us have been through bad things in our lives. This , has been far the worst in terms of how I feel inside…like my guts have been ripped out. When does this end????
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 2:57pm
hitandrun says:
Thanks, Zen. I didn’t see your post : )
There is a part of me that knows I got pulled out of a bad situation at the last minute. And there is another part of me that feels like I was emotionally raped. And I want him to feel bad, but he is incapable.
Trying to conjure up my warrior woman and file the court papers.
He’s blown off so many financial obligations in his life, but not this one. Do these people EVER experience their come-uppance?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 3:04pm
Zen says:
hitandrun:
“Do these people EVER experience their come-uppance?”
Honestly I don’t know but I do know two sociopaths and both are female. Neither can hold a job both always getting fired, neither have good relationships or any relationship with their immediate families. Both have had issues with money, lawsuits, not paying bills, not paying traffic violations. Neither have a pot to piss in so to speak, always broke. Both alienate 99% of the people they come across. Both believe that they’re the ones who are always wronged. What an existence! You may believe that everyone loves this person, it takes a LOT of effort keeping up appearances. You can only spin so many plates at a time.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 3:34pm
bluejay says:
hitandrun,
These people lack INTEGRITY. My husband (I’m separated from him) left me, being fine with that. I was at the end of my rope in all ways (emotionally, spiritually, financially, etc.). There were days that I didn’t want to get out of bed (sometimes, I still have these moments) due to all the crap that he pulled, but I forced myself to keep going (I still do). Consider yourself lucky that you learned what he is like before you went any further with him. If I’d known what my husband was like before I married him, I wouldn’t have gotten married, avoiding a boat load of heartache. I am SORRY that you had the misfortune of getting tangled up with a spath.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 7 April 2010 @ 5:19pm
hitandrun says:
Thanks bluejay. I am sorry that ANYONE has to experience this extreme weirdness. I am still in the ” I just don’t get it” phase.
And question, is he really a spath or is it me?
I did get damn mad the lat month before he pulled a Houdini because my intuition was manifesting in my body because I was in huge denial. Things began to not add up, so I would be very confrontational. Of course I blame my non-ability to just be cool and not point out the inconsistencies as the reason he left. Some co-dependent control non-sense. But deep down inside I know I was just reacting to something that was very wrong.
This just plain sucks. Hopefully,the pendulum will start swinging toward the more positive side(hey, I dodged a bullet!) The bad thing is I work for myself and have been very non-productive.
Like I’ve been in a fog and trudging through mud. During times like these, I think it would be best to have a regular job!
Blessings to everyone…we need it after these freakshows play their game on us.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 8 April 2010 @ 12:02pm
FirstThingsFirst says:
Hitandrun:
I like the screen name you chose; it is very apropos. Yesterday you asked, “When does it end?” I am sure that the answer to this question varies from person to person. But when I was “breaking up” with the S/P, a friend of mine told me that it took him about six months to get over a woman whom he had dearly loved (and she was not an SP). I found my friend’s time line to be true. It took me about six months, to experience the sadness, rage, wondering, attempts at some contact and then retreat. IT WILL GET BETTER for you, especially if the S/P is completely out of your life.
LoveFraud helps.
Additionally you said, “I blame my non-ability to just be cool and not point out the inconsistencies as the reason he left.”
Believe me, as much as it hurts, you are fortunate, very fortunate that he left. I was cool; I very often did not point out the inconsistencies because I was too exhausted, because there were too many, because I started to become habituated to not be treated well. Being cool and not pointing out his hurtful, confusing, dishonest, deceptive, and just plain puzzling inconsistencies did not help me. When you pointed those things out, you were saying something is wrong here; you were sticking up for yourself!
I know some S/Ps hang on for years, and I feel very sorry for their victims. But he left because he left. Pointing out his inconsistencies and not being able to stay cool was a good thing. If you had not done that, he would have devastated you further, over a longer period of time, and left anyway when you were no longer convenient. I am glad he left you because you deserve so much more than an S/P.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 8 April 2010 @ 1:39pm
hitandrun says:
Thanks FirstThingsFirst.
It was like a fairytale…I used to tease him that I conjured him up
because he did all the things I had written about in my journal
of what I wanted from a man…kind of spooky.
Since it was a long distance relationship, it appeared that he treated me like gold up until the end(when he started acting weird and things did not add up.) And who knows what he was really doing when he wasn’t with me? Just because he emailed me daily and called several times a day, does not mean he wasn’t going out and getting drunk or other things…who the hell knows.
I do know with his new biz, he is working 13 hour days. Not much time to be a drunk face…ha! Ha! Seems like it is very successful so far and that pisses me off.
Anyway, I wish there was one thing I could nail down to convince me 100% he is a sociopath. Is this what they do?
Total con job with my family, his family and friends, too…right until the end when they decide they are done with you?
It’s still pretty fresh, so I am a bit out of my head.
Thank you all…your posts give me a glimpse of hope and sanity.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 8 April 2010 @ 3:20pm
Thatgirl70 says:
To: hitandrun and all the others.
It’s a repeating theme. Everyone starts with “he said all the right things!” I just thought possibly this person was just as innocent about love or being in love as I was. WRONG. My gut was screaming at me after about 3 months or so to get out, given certain behaviors that were displayed. I also notice there is a recurring theme about irresponsibility. This man has owned a pretty successful business for about 23 years. The odd thing was he would let certain things just go. Outstanding parking tickets turning to warrants not paying registration on his car, and then to boot he stopped paying his child support. I would get on him about these things and his attitude to me, stunk. At the end of the day it wasn’t right.
And with the ex-girlfriend coming back in the scene, I have to tell you guys after being out of it now for 2 months, I am convinced this is some game they play with each other and I was just a pawn. My thought is I was some sort of chess piece while she would come back into his life and then he would declare his love for her to show her how much of a Knight in Shining Armor he is and then they play off each others sickness. He had explained to me how manipulative his ex-girlfriend was and that’s why they broke up. Well, now I know, they both play each other! Mind you, that did happen in person and I was between the both of them. It was very Jerry Springer to say the least. My last words to him…”you two are made for each other, you’re crazier than two sh*t house rats”, got up and walked out! He called and emailed and called and I did NOT respond. Then I noticed he went through anger stage, calling, and she even started calling me. I did NOT respond or pick up calls. These are 46 year olds. That’s crazy!!!! I am just turning 40 and know darn well how sick that behavior is. Best thing I did as my mom told me, completely ignore, just ignore. Give it zero energy…none. And I did, and I feel it has been the best for the entire situation.
Are we all hand picked by these socios? I admit, I am a sucker for thinking everyone has good intention because well, that’s what I project myself. I believe in the good of people, is that wrong? I had awesome roles models as parents and now know that may never be apart of my path in this life, and THAT’S OK! I know now unfortunately what to look for. It just so sad that I’ll have to screen people (which to some degree is sad) for certain behaviors. What has the world come to?
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 3:20pm
OxDrover says:
Dear thatgirl,
Welcome to LF! “What has the world come to?” IT’S THE WAY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN, we just are starting to notice!@ LOL
Yes, it would be wonderful to think this world was safe and that there is nice down inside everyone but it’s not the case, and yes, we do need to screen others for what their intentions are, but the world can still be a good place as long as we keep out of the cross hairs of the psychopaths and their ilk!
We’re all here to learn about psychopaths and how to avoid them and how to heal from the ones we didn’t avoid! Sounds like you are well on your way to realizing how important NO CONTACT is with these creeps! Good show!
S
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 4:32pm
shabbychic says:
Thatgirl70, yeah, I believed in the good of people myself, why didn’t I just put a bullseye on my forehead? The socios seemed to zero in on me. You are right to IGNORE! They hate that, can’t control you anymore!!! They get the message loud and clear!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 8:02pm
Wini says:
Thatgirl70, make no mistake, he will play everyone. Whether that former girlfriend is bending over backwards to keep up with him (remember, he’s telling her what he knows she wants to hear) or she really is a Spath too (doubt that very much) she’s being used and abused too. Everyone is like a piece of tissue paper to them. They blow their nose in the tissue and toss it into the waste basket. Never to think about that tissue again, except for the 2 seconds they needed it to blow their nose.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 10:02pm
silvermoon says:
Y’all,
It really doesn’t matter what you call it, the kind of weirdness you saw that brought you here is the kind that adds up to a bad partner.
We all wonder how we got fooled and I think as we look back, we see all the same things- the fantasy come to life- every thing we wished for turned sour or run away or well, there is always an end to the story.
And the good news is, there was a finite point in yours when you had the chance to be free and to heal.
Here’s to the Brave Hearts new and old who survived this far and all the good things that come from being free again.
Vive la liberty!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 15 June 2010 @ 11:21pm
Thatgirl70 says:
Well thanks everyone for your input. The strangest experience thus far. NOT TO BE REPEATED.
And to Wini: You are probably right. When that episode happened in person, I remember looking in her eyes and seeing, gosh, sadness and weakness if that makes sense? Almost what I could have been, if I didn’t get out. It was my only trip to the Twilight Zone.
I am super hopeful for great, unconditional love though….if that makes me a sucker, oh well! : D
Joy and Light!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 1:24pm
Wini says:
ThatGirl70, you probably saw frustration and fear in that woman’s face. Frustration from her constantly bending herself into a pretzel to please a monster who can never be pleased by another. Fear, because his taste about her is constantly changing. He, like so many others searches outside themselves for healing instead of realizing the simple truth, only they can heal themselves. But, since their ego goes into full throttle during the slightest hint of insecurity … they refuse or can’t/won’t ever come to the conclusion that they have issues … that’s why the continued blame game with EVERYONE. It’s such a sick, perpetual cycle that goes on until someone stops them … but, most people do not have the finances to stop them (thanks to our court systems and all the greedy attorneys out there insuring everyone pays through the nose to get justice). What a mess our country is.
God help us!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 2:51pm
style1 says:
hit and run,
Mine dumped on me..
I had asked him to move out of my house during an argument..
And I had gotten very upset one day telling him that I was tired of being the man responsible for everything..
then he went out of town on business.. and when he was on his way in.. I was hoping that the plane would crash.. How wacko is that..
Then he walks in the door with flowers and tells me that he is leaving for Florida that weekend and moving out.
He slammed me.. just like he slammed me in the beginning..
when he realized that I was on to him and his promises and he realized I was callling him on issues and the way things were.. he leaves…
we communicated for awhile and he visited me.. but he soon became involved with his children.. ones he hadn’t see but once in the year that we were together.. and he wanted me to move to be with them.. it became all about him again..
I then dumped him for good.. but not he won’t even respond when I eamail to inquire what he wants me to do with his things..
This is a short version.. but I was dumped before I could do the dumping and it hurts in a wierd way…
As it is double insulting..and even though I wasn’t happy.. it left me reeling the way that he did it.. with flowers…
And it was like he had little emotion about it.. like now I am here and now I am there.. after all the love love love talk..
I am still wierded out about my experience with this hit and run man…
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 3:54pm
Psyche says:
Hi Hit and Run -
I’m sorry you’ve had a rough time. I does leave us feeling incredibly vulnerable, and quite willing to die sometimes. That’s the ugly truth, or at least part of it.
Regarding your comment: “What I cannot fathom is how my ex P could appear so loving and caring to everyone else…taking care of his neices and nephews…everyone thought he was the greatest guy.
But after he’d been drinking, he would say how much he hated people, I seem to be the only one who heard it…hmmm.”
I think these guys (Spaths and especially Ns) engage in love bombing to gather a group of weak-minded, emotionally needy people around them, to exploit at will, and to use as props on the stage of their fake lives. They like having a cast of characters around them to play with, and play on. It helps them maintain ttheir illusions, each castmember is primed to do that from the get go. They win people over, and get them to lower their guards by excessive praise, doing tons of favors, bonding through adventures and supposedly commonly shared concerns.
Anyway, for whatever light it may shed on your situation, I posted the def. of love bombing on the blog a while ago, and will repost it here:
“Love bombing is the deliberate show of affection or friendship by an individual or a group of people toward another individual. Critics have asserted that this action may be motivated in part by the desire to recruit, convert or otherwise influence.”
If your guy was nice to people he hated, and fundamentally disrespected, this is probably why. He needs to feed that image of himself being the ‘nice guy’ so that he can get what he wants from people.
My Spath ex, if it makes you feel any better, only got involved in helping others if a show was involved. Just one example — we were walking down the street one day, and saw a robber knock down an old man with polio. I immediately started to run to help, but my Spath held me back. He said it wasn’t safe to get involved. Then, after about 30 seconds . . . a group started to gather around the old man, trying to help him, and my ex Spath dropped me like a hot potato, ran over to offer ‘help’ and told the story about his heroism for weeks and weeks and weeks. It was a chance for him to be the star of a show that made my ex interested in this man’s misfortune. Total BS. That’s the bottom line with these guys, inside and out.
I also had that feeling of having been in love with someone who never actually existed. It does come with a lot of pain, and it changes the way you look at the world forever, once you see the truth. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time.
xo, Psyche
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 5:28pm
style1 says:
hit and run,
and mine was like a fairy tale in the beginning … that is in ways.. he was very handsome, brought me flowers all the time.. did things for me .. put himself way out, and put me first.. I mentioned I wanted to go to the Nutcracker and he we went. I mentioned Celine Dion and he got tickets.. it was love love love.. I was his soulmate and he had been looking for me all his life… the way I look was like out of his dreams..
Well, then I find out the day that he moves in that he is about to be evicted…
So he is buying me things when he doesn’t have the money…
Big Shock.. huh.. and pretty typical. .. I was his future and priming me so that he could move in was his job…
Still a year and a half after it is over, I can fall back into that dream that he created.. in my mind I go back to those hopefu feelings.. but it was a dream .. a fairy tale and not real..
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 8:39pm
lostingrief says:
walking home today and hear a voice calling my name. Over here! i look and it’s the Beast. all happy and waving at me. i turned and just kept walking. no reaction. i even shocked myself. then i hear, damn, girl, you got BIG! i melted into myself and wanted to crawl into a hole and die. when i got home, there was a voicemail. ‘you can wave back, ya know. what’s up with that; say hi next time! you got real big. i was surprised to see that. i wish you nothing but the best. peace.
put me in a bad place.
oh, the good news? he was wearing a baseball cap. he HATED hats. it can only mean that the bald spot at the top of his head is E-X-P-A-N-D-I-N-G!
towanda.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 8:47pm
Hopeforjoy says:
Dear lostingrief,
He’s trying to control you with how you react to him by telling you to say hi. If you wanted to call him an a-hole, it’s completely up to you and he has nothing to say about it. Hope his bald spot gets melanoma, and it gets ‘real big’.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 9:03pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
lostingrief: GOOD FOR YOU!!!
funny that someone would expect a wave in return for an insult. duh. dis-ordered!
you live in your own heart – his insult is nothing to you. you know what your weight has to do with, it is your business and yours to be compassionate to yourself about. he is but an ever expanding bald spot on a tick.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 9:42pm
OxDrover says:
Dear LIG,
Sorry that you had to encounter that creep today! UN-expectedly encountering them I think is one of the more painful things, I know it was with me.
The “say hi” carp where they try to diminish you, like “why should you be so upset just cause I abused you it wasn’t any big deal” is such a freaking INSULT and they do NOT get it.
That time I ran into the egg donor in the grocery as I checked out and she discounted me, it just FLEW ALL OVER ME! The thing is though, it did make me realize that I don’t feel that way ALL the time like I used to. So, look at the positive side of this. You had a BUMM EXPERIENCE but it sure as hell beats LIVING LIKE THAT 24/7.
My late husband used to say something along the line of, “Yea, I may be fat, but I can DIET, but you are UGLY and there’s no cure for that!” Your X is UGLY INSIDE and that’s the worst there is. NO CURE FOR THAT!
(((((hugs)))) and hang in there LIG, you know we are here for you! Love Oxy
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 10:10pm
shabbychic says:
LIG, he’s such an a-hole.
I just wanted to tell you that I have always admired
you for the way you handle yourself
and because you seem to always find a bright side to things
and you always say TOWANDA!!!! Yes, he gets you message
loud and clear, and it obviously bothers him. Too bad.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 11:17pm
geminigirl says:
Oxy,Re the comment your late husband made,—
Winston Churchill was in the House of Commons,and had had a bit to drink. One of the female MPs for Liverpool, Bessie Braddock, a very fat woman, accosted him saying,
“Winston, your DRUNK!!”
To which Churchill replied,
“Madam, your ugly. And Ill be sober tomorrow.”.
Gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 11:34pm
hens says:
LIg So sorry that happened to you. What you described is what I fear from an unexpected bump into my X..I know with out doubt he would be like everything is just fine and as soon as I dismiss his presense he will get defensive and intimadating and ugly. And I sure as hell aint gonna say Hello but Kiss my Ass..
My ego got crushed last saturday nite when I went out to a gay bar, I was lookin for a parking place and this hurd of YOUNG queens walk by my truck and one say’s “OH LOOK grandpa came out tonite~!” well I am still stinging from that… but they prolly will never know the blessings of grandkids and maybe never have the chance to live as long as this SILVER FOX GRANDPA`
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 11:40pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
hens – hi sweetie. young queens are f***ing turds.
always have been. always will be. narcissistic little turds.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 11:45pm
hens says:
hi there onestep
I am giggling 
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010 @ 11:58pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
then my work is done
really – they never change. i started going to the clubs in the 80’s…they were like that then….then they grow up into old b**chy queens and become ugly on the outside too.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 17 June 2010 @ 12:00am
hens says:
rotflmao – most peeps that run in hurds are turds..
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 17 June 2010 @ 12:12am
one_step_at_a_time says:
better to be a silver fox in a truck than a young cock scratching your way across the yard….
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 17 June 2010 @ 12:14am
one_step_at_a_time says:
think the heathen neighbours have settled enough that i can sleep now. i have been trying for the last week to get to sleep before 11 – and the new young un upstairs (18 yrs old) is keeping me awake. talked with her older brother tonight – he quite liked my calling him the ‘man of the house’ ( he actually seems to be quite repsonsible – i say seems ’cause his father is a p****, and I am always wary about seedlings) – about her stomping and smoking and swearing whilst sitting on the balcony above my head. don’t know if it will ultimately make a difference. but i sure hope so. don’t want to have to bury them in the woods.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 17 June 2010 @ 12:19am
OxDrover says:
Thanks, Gem, that was what I was trying to remember! In fact, I am reading a book now about how MEMORY is faulty, and boy is THAT the truth! LOL He had another one too that I thought was funny, this was one about a fat male actor (crs can’t remember his name) and this woman said “If that belly was on a woman I would say she was pregnant” and he answered, “It was, madam, and she is” LOL
Henry, those little turds just think they’re cute—they will just go on to be the next generation of “Mikes” and “Jodies” and can’t remember what Matt’s X was called—FAKE is a good enough term. Doesn’t matter if they are straight or gay or in between they are TRASH!
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 17 June 2010 @ 12:31am
geminigirl says:
Hi, Oxy! the other one was by George Bernard Shaw.
This beautiful actress accosted Shaw, and suggested they marry. “Imagine, the child would have my beauty, and your brains!: she cooed.
“Madam, suppose it had MY beauty and YOUR brains?” he said,”What a disaster!”
Love,
Gem.XX
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 17 June 2010 @ 2:54am
Thatgirl70 says:
Hello Wini:
You hit the nail on the head! I had a txt message come through on my phone on Saturday afternoon, it was his new/old whatever thing from the past. Anyway, I was with a bunch of my friends at the beach having cocktails and such when I saw the number I thought…..who? I then put two and two together and the txt message read “You can have him” and I just started laughing out loud and thought oh my lord, you have got to be kidding me? I brought my friends into the loop and the all just shook their heads with disbelief.
This girl whom I don’t even know, A) feels compelled to txt me, why I don’t know B) someone I called a crazy sh*t house rat and C) what in this girls mind makes her think I would even answer or take ANY pity on her anyway? HAH. It takes a lifetime to build beautiful memories and just seconds to kill it with infidelity! Now Wini, I have to ask, what in the world makes this girl to txt me first off…..like I want his grubby a$$ back? Agaggahahaaaa. Peope are just flat out nuts, seriously. She’s like a dog that repeatedly want to get kicked. Wini, you were so right.
Winis words:
“Frustration from her constantly bending herself into a pretzel to please a monster who can never be pleased by another. Fear, because his taste about her is constantly changing.”
You got that straight! I really do hope both of them eventually LOSE my cell number. Ugh. It’s becoming boring now.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 21 June 2010 @ 3:18pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
zimzoomit – please do not put the same post on each thread. once people see your post they will respond.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 4:18pm
zimzoomit says:
o.k…but please let me know on which thread my comment remained (so I won’t have to post again, to reflect that I, at least, posted my message once on this web site. Thanks.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 6:07pm
zimzoomit says:
o.k., I was informed recently, by e-mail, not to post (repeat) the same blog on other links on this web site, and was instructed, in that e-mail, not to do so, by e-mail from the LF administrator. Yet, I need for ONE posting, at least, to stay on this site, if no others after this, and this particular blog spot was the first one I posted to today, so I will post it (and ONLY to it) again, and for the ONLY time I post it (read: I’ll not post it again on any other link on this site; but this was the specific site to which I initially posted my blog, and I think it needs to remain posted, to warn other women. Thank you.) After informed, by e-mail, that I should not post same message to different LF blogs, I understood, but was not, since, informed if my message stayed on any one blog spot on LF, therefore, I post this message to this specific blog, and ONLY to this specific blog (not to any other LF blog on this site.)
I think all Spaths are destructive, thought, I also think that not as many women have had the misfortune to have a DOWN-LOW Spath ruin their lives. Therefore, my blog lines, below:
I was directed to this web site, LF, years ago, when someone posted a comment to my DDHG profile about my ex, who I think was another Spath. I’ve only today decided to post to the LF blog, for the first time up here, and responding specifically to OxDrover’s message to Hen, “Henry, those little turds just think they’re cute—they will just go on to be the next generation of ‘Mikes’ and ‘Jodies’ and can’t remember what Matt’s X was called—FAKE is a good enough term. Doesn’t matter if they are straight or gay or in between they are TRASH!”
Also agree to one_step_at_a_time’s message, “hens – hi sweetie. young queens are f***ing turds. always have been. always will be. narcissistic little turds.”
My ex, a Spath with whom I lived for nearly a decade, was on the DL. One of his wives prior to me confirmed it for me, ..said that during her relationship with him, her gay male friends (more than one) told her they’d had sex with him. She also told me that he wanted to sex role switch with her, which in long, painful hindsight, I now suspect was what he was trying to have me do, as well.
It has been almost 10 years since ending our relationship. He left without reimbursing me half the security deposit (I paid the whole first extra month of rent, when we rented the house; we both signed the lease), so he left me holding the bag, hanging on to a house, not long after my last unemployment check ran out, he left after I’d helped mentor (if not raise) his daughter for that long, and left not long after she was no longer a minor. I was unable to have children of my own.
He drained me emotionally and financially for years..wasn’t like the ordinary break up (hey, I’d handled those in my 20s and 30s quite well..was able to move on like water off a duck’s back, and I always knew when to break it off with someone, early on, when I knew they were not right for me.) Profiles I’ve posted about him show him wearing the expensive clothes that I bought for him. He “fed” off my family’s good graces for years, attending my father’s 80th B-day celeb, at the beach, where I’d also invited his daughter (she ate well, too, that night!), taking advantage of my father’s V-day present to us as a couple: a weekend resort, with a hot tub, breakfasts served; dinners my father paid for my own B-day celebs, at fine restaurants, where he was also invited..for years.
He denied everything to the bitter end, said there was no other woman, etc. There WAS another woman, a woman who had, for a couple of years, pretended to be my friend. She was married, for the second time, when she met us, through mutual friends of hers and mine. So he USED me and my networks to meet and seduce his Ms. Next, his next victim.
Less than one year after he bolted, I was crime victimized. So..first I was sexually/emotionally/psychologically abused by one Spath, for years, then I was physically assaulted, by another Spath, a felon, at my place of work. Healing was slower, with two “crimes” happening back to back, from two different Spaths, one “crime” from who I THOUGHT I knew, another from a stranger and felon. The combination of the two things left me feeling as though I’d been raped.
Recovery has been slow, but I’m determined to “out” the Spath with whom I lived for so long, once and for all.
On one web site, I posted photos of him from his teens through his 50s, asking any gay guys or guy who’s sexed him to please come forward to say when or where that happened to please comment under any profiles on him. He had two failed marriages before living with me, and I suspect is working on a third that will probably fail (he interfered with her 2nd marriage, and seduced her away from her husband, meanwhile he’d advertised himself as bi on a swingers site.)
It wasn’t his first time trying to destroy someone else’s marriage. His first wife told me he (and by his own admission to her) had seduced their neighbor’s wife. He himself admitted to me, when we began dating, that he’d come on to a married woman while married to his 2nd wife, but she told him she didn’t want his problems to become hers. Wish I had done the same thing. That was my RED FLAG and I ignored it. Took a long time for me to forgive myself for having anything to do with the Spath.
Sometimes, the only relief I get from the residual grief (though much less than it was 9 years ago, and certainly minimal, since it didn’t take me long to meet my next partner, with whom I still live, and who I deeply love) is to try to help other women on those profiling sites. But when I post my standard paragraph, I also keep hoping that those gay guys will respond–you know–the gay guys who his first wife said had sexed him while he and she were married.
Is this “normal” to want this kind of final closure, or “obsessive”? I just think the next woman is putting herself at HUGE risk of possibly contracting AIDS. I care not for HER (female with whom he had an affair while living with me and who he left me for) feelings or HER safety anymore, but care about OTHER women who he might con, after her.
I think he also keeps stalking me by directing SPAM e-mail to my addy, and also suspect that it was he who has vandalized my car four times, within the last 9 years. But I refuse to be intimidated to take down my profiles about him on the net, that warn other women.
My car was, again, vandalized, when parked in front of my home, about week ago, and I suspect, again, that it was him doing it. And that SPAM email? Well, that continues, too. Got one just last night. Sent at 9 P.M. (His current “squeeze” should pay attention to what he does on his computer, at that hour, but she refused to listen to the warnings of her former husband’s former girlfriend who remained his friend, who was the sister-in-law of my ex’s first wife.) I ignore the emails. I just delete them. My neighbors and their teen children (who study into the morning hours) are on heightened Neighborhood Watch, because of the vandalism to my car. I REFUSE to be intimidated to remove my posts on DDHG or anywhere else, because of him or his actions. Somehow, I just know that his family members, or at least several of them, KNOW he’s a Spath, but they’ve managed, I think, to enable him and his behavior.
So, yes, I think the vindictiveness of Spaths, described in LF’s page about Spath characteristics, is right on the mark.
I think you LF bloggers might, by now, know who I am, or at least who my Spath was, especially if you read womansavers.com or DDHG profiles, as I do daily (like others read the daily obits in their newspapers.) I come to this blog, finally, because, what the Spath did to me was diminish my friendship circles (he FED ON THEM, to find his next victim!), to leave me feeling very isolated, and it has been a long haul for me, out of the hole of depression.
I’m not a homophobe (as he accused me of being in his last, vulgar e-mail to me.) In fact, I am trusting and putting my faith in my Higher Power, that some KIND gay guy (or guys), that is, who HAVE A CONCSCIENCE or consciences, come forward to help expose him for the DL Spath/fraud he was, is, or has been for years, ..hope that the gay community (at least those gays who believe in monogamy) will help me finally..to expose him, so I can have complete closure.
He refused to get an AIDS/HIV test, when I asked him to, after he decided it was “over.” Though I am cleared (had to wait six months between each test), I am very concerned about other victims of his, after the fact. He had a huge hemorrhoid in his anal area, which very well could be a HUGE red flag, that he might be a “bottom” (or a “versatile”, someone who is both a top and bottom.) He had a gay male porn addiction while living with me.)
Spaths on the DOWN-LOW are the worst! This message, I hope, will remain up here. I won’t post it to any other LF blog URLs.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 6:44pm
zimzoomit says:
Has anyone, on this LS blog, experienced cognitive and emotional “blunting” or deadness of feeling, from the symptoms of Battered Woman’s Syndrome, as I have, subsequent to her years spent living with a Spath, to not know, consequently, where to specifically, and to whom, specifically, to tell their true story? Or, has anyone else experienced disability discrimination, from having Battered Women’s Syndrome or PTSD, as an aftermath of a long-term relationship with a Spath? I think I CANNOT be the only one up here, who has met that unfortunate end, so want to know more and hear more from others up here.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 6:57pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Zimzoomit,
I think if you will go back through the archives of the articles here EVERY ONE of your questions will be answered 100 Xs over.
There is a great deal of information on this site already and I suggest that you READ READ READ. It is okay for you to post on other threads, you just don’t have to cut and past the same comment on each one.
You are welcome here, this is where people who have been wounded come to heal. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER so read and educate yourself to take back your power. God bless.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 7:06pm
Matt says:
zizzoomit:
I agree with OxDrover that the answers to your questions have been answered 100 times over.
However, I do have two thoughts.
First, if you believe that your S-ex has HIV/AIDS many jurisdictions have passed laws which make a carrier who knowingly has sex with people and doesn’t tell them that he/she is infected can be criminally prosecuted. Actual medical evidence is called for her. Going all out to out somebody isn’t the way to do it.
Second, I think you need to ask yourself how your continued efforts to bring down S-ex may impact your current relationship. My partner is a great guy. But, other than briefly telling him about my S-ex, I have learned to put it all in the background. I don’t want the past to slop over into the present and future. He doesn’t need to hear about that relationship, and, as supportive as he is, I don’t want him to hear about it. I have learned that if you stay engaged with your S-ex, even if it is indirectly via trying to out him on websites, you may as well invite a third person into your current relationship. And we all know where that leads to.
Just something to think about.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 7:38pm
zimzoomit says:
Yes, I know all about not letting things “slop over” into the next relationship, that’s why I suspect that others “compartmentalize” their thoughts and expressions, about their prior relationships, especially ones with with their Spaths, but I also think it is not for our next partner not to tell us to limit, or limit, our grief over this situation (would you expect your partner not to let you grieve over the death of a parent or child?) I’ve read many good profiles on DDHG, from women who’ve outed their Spaths. Several even admitted to having posted about more than one former Spath from their past, on the internet, meanwhile exclaiming JOY that they’d finally met their true soul mates since dumping the Spaths, and had enjoyed and intended to enjoy, their relationships with their Healer (partners) with whom they’ve since lived with for years or married, so, I’m not going to be “guilt tripped” into having residual feelings of grief, over my past situation, now and then. I’ve learned not to care what anyone else thinks, because of the Spath. My partner knows I profiled the Spath. I have told him that my reading the profiles on DDHG and other sites is just another way that I know to appreciate him, to know that he is NOT one of “those” guys.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 8:05pm
shana31 says:
edited for seemingly harshness…Maybe it’s just me, but I would prefer to show him how much I believe in him in more subtle ways.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 9:01pm
ErinBrock says:
Zimzoom.
I agree with Matts post. Very wise.
I don’t believe he was offering any sort of guilt trip.
Hey…if it ‘works’ for you…..don’t change a thing!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 9:11pm
zimzoomit says:
I’m not changing a thing, and I honor the space that my partner and I give each other, as well as respect him, and allow him to express his feelings..encourage him to. He’s definitely not a “rebound”, either, but a keeper. The difference is night and day, between my wonderful partner and my ex (the Spath). I truly believe that the “three P’s”, PROTECT, PROVIDE, PROFESS, are what make the true “man” and what make decent relationships, built on integrity (not on subterfuging someone else’s relationship or marriage..something my ex, the Spath did, or tried to do, more than once..he had an history of it..he seemed to thrive on it, and on pitting breeders against non breeders), work, that the three P’s (not faked) are the ONLY way a relationship can work. I had the fake “professing” part of it from the Spath, but certainly not the Protect and Provide (at least not without whining or complaining) parts. o.k., I’ll go back to my studying now, off line for the night. I’d still like to get, from Henry (who I surmise must be gay) what he thinks of how to out a guy on the DL, among the gay community, or see if he feels the same way about guys who lie to both sexes about their alternate lifestyles. I’ll becha most gay guys hate men on the down-low, that they’d rather have a gay guy out than closeted, and bet that they get just as hurt as a female, by a DL Spath’s betrayal. Nighty night everyone.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 10:41pm
ErinBrock says:
ZIMZOOM:
I’m not a gay man….but I have referred to myself as a celebate lesbian once or twice on LF and beyond…..
A sociopath is a sociopath whether gay or straight, male or female….and any info will be received the same.
If he’s into men AND women….and he’s HIV pos. then it’s a problem for all. If you only suspect he’s HIV+ then i’d be careful what you write or say. It must be documented and you must have it in YOUR hands. Medical records are protected.
Unless you have photos of him with men….it’s HIS secret, or you have men who will ’speak’, again it’s his secret and only to beleived by those who CHOOSE to believe you.
I have pics of my spath on his knees with two naked men on a couch I found on CL.
It gives me what I need to ’speak’ about his bisexuality.
I think anyone….gay, straight, bi or whatever hate anyone on the DL. It’s manipulation and deceat.
I urge you to read further on LF…..as you were advised by Oxy….and it applies to these questions too…..it’s all been talked about on LF. Search the archives and you will find all the info you need.
There are and have been many posters here with much experience of which you ask about…..seek and you will find.
Good luck in your research.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 11:04pm
zimzoomit says:
Returning with one last comment for the night (hey..we’re allowed to change our minds, yes?) If he’d wanted to “convert” me to lesbianism by trying to get me to watch films about lesbians, he might’ve been more classy about his choices, like, perhaps to choose films with excellent story lines and cinematography, like “Tipping The Velvet”..sort of a “period” flick, with women wearing Victorian era costumes (much like “The Red Violin”, which was one he picked out, about a womanizing musician, which my ex was; he also chose “Blood Oranges”, “Eyes Wide Shut”, about other sick sociopaths, and one of the only movies he took me to in an actual theatre, when we first dated, was “The Crying Game”. That should have nipped it in the bud for me. I should have seen the Red Flags then. I’ll bet his gay male cousin showed him gay porn when he was a minor, so he wanted to “purge” the experience by doing a similar thing to me..to degrade me, trying to confuse my sexual identity. I just thought he was being “artsy”, and married/intelligent friends of his, who I respected, had recommended “The Crying Game,” so I went to see it with him.) No, instead, he bought and rented hard core, nasty porn, involving gay themes (men on men, women on women, fisting, anal effing, and everything under the sun) that I caught him jacking off to. He should’ve known that I would NEVER..COULD NEVER..be a lesbian..even if he had picked “Tipping The Velvet”, to see. He even asked me once if I thought the woman (who he left me for) was “attractive”..almost as if he was asking if I’d consider having a threesome with her. A very sick man. One trick of a pimp, when he turns out a young innocent girl to prostitution, is to show her porn. I learned that from reading Dworkin’s chapter, “Sister, Can You Spare A Dime, from Andrea Dworkin’s book, Heartbreak. He was such a hypocrite because he’d named his variety band after the Robert Cray tune, “Night Patrol”, which is, I think, a spiritual message about how men shouldn’t destroy the spirits of women, but my Spath did just the opposite! Whenever confronted with, “What’s with all these gay male themes in the movies you bought? Are you gay or bi?”..he would always deny, as if he enjoyed torturing me. And whether or not the woman after me wants to admit she made a mistake, he DID admit to me, after calling it quits, that, when he was a younger man, he’d met gay guys for casual sex in theatres, bookstores, public baths, and the like. Talk about a shock to one’s system. That would be an understatement. I wrote a book about these topics, that took me three years of research and writing, and that I intend to publish as an e-book, for read-by-chapter viewing and payment, when I can manage to get the web site up for it.I believe you when you say a person does both men and women, but I disagree with the term “bisexual”..believe that those who use that word to describe themselves use it to “feed-forward” to society and the world that it’s okay to sex both men and women, when, in actuality, I’ll bet that most of those who call themselves “bi” are SEXUALLY CONFUSED from having been raped as children, and they want to “re-live” their sexual abuse (“purge” if you will) their experience onto their adult female partners. I think this was the case with my ex of many years. He hid his “other side” from me until the very end, and it was SICK, DEMENTED, ABUSIVE behavior. No. I believe the only TRUE “bisexuals” are hermaphrodites..those born with BOTH sets of sex organs, and think that others who try to “promote” the THEORY of bisexuality want to make it SEEM like their SICK, SEXUAL IDENTITY CONFUSION is “normal”. It’s NOT normal. My ex was a “bottom”, too, I would discover, after he joined a swingers’ site, advertising himself as BI seeking BI. His first wife and I had a conversation, finally. She told me he wanted her to “reverse” sex roles with her..for her to be the GUY, and wear a STRAP-ON. Of course, she didn’t comply. One time, he donned one of my wigs and underwear. THAT should have been my BIG PINK FLAG to get out. I just thought he was being silly at the time. He also told me that when he was age 12, his gay male cousin, at age 15, had oral sex with him; that would be enough to mess anyone up in the head, for the rest of his/her life. He cheated on BOTH wives, and both OTHER women, besides them, with whom he lived. After all was said and done, he even tried to project that I was lesbian (I’m not), and I believe he just wanted me as SEXUALLY CONFUSED as he is/was. I am thoroughly SICK of these DOWN-LOW males..won’t call them “men”…just SICK freaks. According to what I’ve read up here, most men on the DL are GIGOLOS, too.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 11:20pm
zimzoomit says:
I have no photos of him with men, but he did show me a pic of him when he was very young, in drag. He said it was a “halloween party”. Halloween party, my foot! I also kept his ad from that swinger site he’d joined, advertising himself as bi, and also kept copies of the confirmation e-mails to/from that swingers site, that he was a member of that site. One time, when we went out on the town to a club he picked, because I said I’d like to see what Salsa dancing was about, he picked a club where, when he went to the bathroom (and took his sweet time in there, while I almost ate all my shrimp scampi), a straight-looking guy approached me at the bar, and told me he was married and that he cross-dressed, so I think it was a hang-out for gays, there. Not that he bothered to tell me BEFORE he chose that place. I was just TOO trusting of him. I have NEVER accused him of having AIDS/HIV. It is just that, with what I gathered from his first wife about his “sexing men” activities behind her back, it “clicked” with me that he’s been in this “pattern” for much of his life, and, it more than “suggests” to me, that he is STILL in the closet, and (o.k..just to be safe, I’ll say “allegedly”) used as many women as he could, to try to convince himself otherwise.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 11:26pm
zimzoomit says:
He also seemed to enjoy, at one point in our relationship, telling me that a long-time male friend of his, a guitarist (whose playing method he described as “like someone carrying two buckets of water..stiff”..so that was CRITICIZING his friend’s guitar style!) who’d been in a variety band with him..said that that guitarist’s first wife had left him for a lesbian. He seemed to have gotten some kind of prurient satisfaction from telling me that. The guy was mentally ill, I’m telling you. The End (for the night, anyway)
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 11:42pm
ErinBrock says:
CLUSTER B disorders are NOT a mental illness…..they are a personality disorder.
This is a common societal misconception.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 29 June 2010 @ 11:45pm
GettingIt says:
not sure I agree with you, ErinBrock: Personality Disorders are a part of DSM Manual which is short for “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders”. All of Cluster B are mental Dis-orders, which means – mental illness. At the time of diagnosis, Personality Disorders are put in Axis II, and Insurance agencies do not believe they can be treated. That is, treatment of a personality disorder may take anywhere from 2 years to a lifetime. But, it’s possible and showed to be beneficial with number of disorders such as Borderline for instance
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:01am
GettingIt says:
Medical diagnosis are Axis III and so forth. Just like Diabetes is a disorder, so is a Personality disorder, which usually comes with number of Axis I traits and disorders: Bipolar, PTSD, Major Depression, etc.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:02am
zimzoomit says:
o.k., I’ll look up “CLUSTER B disorders”, but I’ve learned much about how children’s sexual identities can be confused when they are subjected to incest, and I can provide, later, the links to what I found. I personally, after reading “Rethinking Mental Health Disorders” (or some such title..can’t recall the authors right now, but I can call them up later, if necessary), I distrust the DSM manual’s categories of mental health diagnoses, and think that environmental influences are much stronger on depression levels of women, especially after domestic abuse, and stronger than any “genetic” influence, but that is my personal opinion. I also, after reading that book, don’t buy whole hog, into the CoDependency Theory, which is used in AA meetings, and don’t buy it because I was told my an S-Anon (like Al Anon) steerer, as well as the other attendees at that meeting, at the only meeting I would ever attend, to basically “look the other way”..to “pay no attention to his inventory”. It was as if the steerer was telling the wives of the cheating men to LOOK THE OTHER WAY and “ignore” his behavior! Uh uh. No. I refuse to “ignore” things. I also know that my ex (the Spath, in my opinion) used that jargon he learned in his AA meetings, to flip the switch, to gaslight not only me, but also his 2nd wife, and possibly his own mother, of being “enmeshed”, “over-reactive”, etc., etc…like he’d learned the jargon from AA, and had learned it to ABUSE women. We must be careful which self help books we read. I rather like Joseph Campbell’s tact; Campbell accepts every world/religious philosophy with a GRAIN of truth..seems to see truth in all of the religions. But, as well, “following one’s bliss” can be very destructive, if one is merely using women’s bodies as masturbation vessels and feigning affection (anyone read Desiderata?) So should we be careful of labeling folks “bipolar” or BDP, etc. Much seems truth in those DSM labels, but how can we REALLY be sure? All I know is the COMBINATION of what he told me about his past, about his prior juvie record, and the facts: his ad on that swingers site, his foreclosure on his marital home with his second wife, his bankruptcy, etc.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:06am
one_step_at_a_time says:
zimzoomit – some of your ideas on sexuality are original, to say the least. ‘SEXUALLY CONFUSED from having been raped as children, and they want to “re-live” their sexual abuse (“purge” if you will) their experience onto their adult female partners.’
‘I believe the only TRUE “bisexuals” are hermaphrodites’.
‘“reverse” sex roles with her..for her to be the GUY, and wear a STRAP-ON. Of course, she didn’t comply. One time, he donned one of my wigs and underwear. THAT should have been my BIG PINK FLAG to get out. ‘
sigh. there is nothing ’sick’ about being a bottom. nothing inherently sick or spath in wanting to be penetrated. I am finding your comments about how sexuality, gender and sociopathy relate one another to be homophobic.
there are a number of gay and lesbian posters here. i am one of them. I speak with some authority about orientation and gender as I have studied both for years, and have known many gay/lesbian/bi/ straight and transgendered people. I do not believe that anything you have said about sexuality, except his projection of you as lesbian, (and that is about the projection, not the thing projected) to be inherently spath, and find nothing in homosexuality to be inherently spath.
I do find some of the conclusions you have drawn to be inflammatory.
re healing from the ppath – stop focusing on the gender of the partners…it’s a red herring. what IS important is infidelity, deceit, and having dealt with a projected and predatory sexuality. Those are things you can deal with and heal from.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:10am
Merr5923 says:
I agree totally. The wife before me cannot accept the fact he never loved her. It is the other women in his life that caused all the trouble. Thanks to a very deep belief in God, I see he never really loved me, He wanted. As you say, pure and simple. He controlled and owned. Unbelievable in a country like ours. Taliban you have competition. I am not sure he can be treated. He once made the brag to me that everyone hated him because he was soooooo much smarter then them. How do you treat someone with that attitude?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:17am
zimzoomit says:
Sorry, but I don’t think you read my last comment thoroughly, and it is insulting to be called a homophobe. Sorry, but I DO NOT own that label (homophobic)..have had too many gay friends throughout my lifetime..friends, male and female, who were not heterosexual, and have known and accepted those friends, for years, to accept that label! I think you are confusing apples and oranges..conflating the issues. The difference with those gay friends of mine, is that they THOUGHT LIKE ME..they wanted only to be monogamous..wanted only ONE soul mate and partner, for life, were not polyamorous. That was NOT my ex (the alleged Spath.) He ADMITTED to me that his gay male cousin and he had oral sex when he was only age 12 and his cousin was around age 15. In many states, when a 15-year old “perps” sexually, he is tried as an adult, for an adult crime. Here’s a source for you: “ a sex addict is a man or a woman whose sexual behavior use of pornography, masturbation, fantasy, sexual and/or emotional affairs, humiliating and demanding sexual behavior is harmful to their finances, intimate relationships, careers, self esteem and probably that of the partner as well.’ Some people use sex as a coping mechanism for their personal problems. There are three reasons why people become sexually addicted, they are biological, psychological, and spiritual. The three building blocks of sex addiction are 1 sexual fantasy, 2 pornography, and 3 masturbation.” Source: http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/addict_y.htm
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:22am
Hopeforjoy says:
Quick comment for one-stepper,
That is a very wise post about sexuality, it’s a healthy view of orientation. I think zimzoom was possibly dealing with a sex addict.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:28am
ErinBrock says:
Gettingit:
I can’t find my resources….but Idid find an interesting article that shows ambiguity….
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/reprint/180/2/110
Maybe Steve…..or Liane….can answer this from a medical standpoint.
I know in legal cases (of which I speak, and may have been too soon…) Cluster B disorders can NOT be used as defense of Mental Illness…..
Sorry your honor….I’m a Narcissitic personality…..she asked for it!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:33am
zimzoomit says:
My user name is “zimzoomit”. It is the phoenetic description for the Hebrew word, which is a little blue wildflower (learned it from working on a kibbutz for two seasons, in my 20s.)Hey, I’m not “shy” to debate these issues. My B.A. (though sometimes I think it’s worthless now, given our economy) was in Speech Communication, and not earned until I was age 40, and not until 1990. If not for a lousy first marriage to a verbally/emotionally abusive husband, I probably could’ve pulled a 4.0 GPA instead of a mere 3.3 (therefore maintaining the “3.5 to stay alive” necessary for “shoe-in” to a successful government career path), but that is what domestic abuse will do to a person, it threatens one’s cognitive abilities—can makes people numb and not able to concentrate as well as they might otherwise concentrate if not abused. But let’s not paint me with a wide brush as “homophobic”. Were I that, I would never have agreed to go see “Crying Game” with my ex. My life-long best friend’s third husband was on the DL, too. She nearly committed suicide when she discovered it. Fortunately, her final (fourth..it took experiencing THREE abusive husbands before she finally met her soul mate!) husband healed her. She’s led a long happy life since, raised three beautiful children to adulthood and successful careers, and found her own successful career, after she became empty nested, and I am happy for her (she was not a “homophobe” either; she told me that while raising her son, and after leaving the DL man, another gay guy had helped her out, on occasion, with food, etc., and helped raised her bruised spirits. But she told me that that DL husband of hers even tried to come on to her own brother one night, after everyone had gone to bed (her brother is not gay; he told my best friend what her husband had done in the wee hours of the morning..the DL husband had creeped to her brother, when her brother was sleeping on my best friend’s couch.) Her third husband, the DL guy, even had the gall, during their divorce proceedings, to glibly/smarmily say that anytime she wanted a f**k, to call him up. Had I kept in touch, month to month, year to year, with my best friend, she might have helped me avoid the Spath, to warn me about the Red Flags.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:44am
zimzoomit says:
Yes, (intelligent) commenter above..I AM talking about sexual addiction, but also I wrote about, from where I think his addictions originated–about WHY I think he behaved (probably, I’ll wager, he still behaves) the way he did. He told me, after he ended things, that he’d spoken with his niece, who told him that his own father had come into her bedroom when she was a teen, at night, and molested her. I recall, the whole 8.5 years I lived with him, him telling me that he’d questioned all five of his sisters, asking them, “Did dad do anything ‘untoward’ with you?” He told me, several times, throughout the years he lived with me, that he’d asked each of his sisters this question. I should also mention that when I spoke to (the alleged) Spath’s former (first) wife, she told me that she had become a social worker, and that she thought my ex was like the psycho in “Silence of The Lambs.” Subsequently, consequently, I thought to myself, “her experience with him must have led her to that professional path in life.” I think, also, that at least two of his sisters, the oldest ones, cosseted him, and financially helped him out, when he was in a fix, or so he admitted to me. One of his sisters, he said, even paid off his lawyers’ bills from his second divorce (from his 2nd wife); the other one, the oldest, lent him $17,000, but before he got the cash, she had him sign a document (filed, in court) that stated that if and when he went bankrupt, he COULD NOT write off his debt to her. He did go bankrupt. SISTERS, HAD I SEEN THAT DOCUMENT IN MY FIRST YEAR WITH HIM, I WOULD NEVER HAVE CONSENTED TO THE RELATIONSHIP; BUT HE DIDN’T SHOW IT TO ME UNTIL YEARS AFTER WE’D LIVED TOGETHER! I think she KNEW how irresponsible financially he was and could be. Wise woman! Wish I’d had a heart-to-heart, long conversation with her, in my first year with him. I used to beat myself for not having had that conversation. I forgave myself, finally, for not having it.) Now, finally, I’m going to have a healthy (hopefully) long, uninterrupted sleep (something rare for me.) Good night.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:08am
zimzoomit says:
okay..to be honest, I’m up late tonight, because my partner is working his musical gig. I trust him. Very different from my former partner, another musician, who I recommend no one ever trust, after my 8.5 years with him. Recommended reading:
“Incest and Sexual Addiction” by John Bradshaw (no, I haven’t read the book yet, but will check it out from my library.) Excerpt:
“John Bradshaw presents his perspectives on new concepts of sexual abuse, including startling data on the extent of incest, three levels of sexual addiction, the dynamics of incested families, a profile of sex offenders and predators and a profile of the partners of sex addicts (COSA–Codependents of Sex Addicts). In the computer age, it is possible to secretly and compulsively act out sexual addictions without having an intimate relation. Often, sexual addiction predates other addictions and it is primarily rooted in shame. This revealing lecture series explores and exposes the various causes, index of suspicion and healing for sex addicts. SOURCE: http://www.johnbradshaw.com/in.....ction.aspx
SOURCE 2: “Molestation – incest and sexual addiction”, Expert: Sarah Harrison – 11/18/2009. Excerpt (cited within fair use..I am not asking money for quoting this, merely citing it for educational purposes):
“My brother had to babysit me if he wanted to go out Saturday evenings. The first time he got me to play a new game, I was 6 and he was 17. Our parents had gone to Las Vegas for the weekend. He had me lay down on his bed, pulled my pants and panties off, unzipped his pants and then laid over me. He’d rock his penis against my vagina. I was scared and at the same time I felt it wasn’t happening to me. After the first couple of times I started having orgasms. By the time I was 7 I was masterbating everyday.” [ ] “My brother took photos and said he would show it to everyone and it would kill our parents. The twice a week became every night. I started acting out with a behavior that could of ended badly for me. [ ] A week after my 8th birthday, my brother and father took me on a fishing trip where I was raped by the both of them for 3 days. I should hate sex and instead, I think about it all the time. I constantly choose men who are older than me. I let my father and brother and their friends use me for 9 years (until i moved out) without once telling a soul. My most crazy behavior was going to an adult movie house with a male friend who has issues like me. We sat in an isolated part of this old movie house. Within minutes I had men touching me. Then I almost got raped and left before anything worse could happen. Sometimes I’ve been so needy that I’ll use hitchhiking on back country road near state road to let old guys abuse me. Afterwords, I feel like throwing up”
SOURCE: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Mol.....iction.htm
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:40am
zimzoomit says:
I used to read a web site called gentletouchweb.com, or some such name. It contained “true” stories of incest victims, and I found it very enlightening and helpful. I wondered why that web site was removed. okay, I’ll hit the hay now, finally.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:45am
zimzoomit says:
My point? It could have been a male, describing his incestuous molestation by his male cousin!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:49am
ErinBrock says:
There are a lot of people who are molested and DON”T act out sexually or in other ways.
I don’t think sexual abuse as a child predisposes us to a future of sexual issues of any sort.
I also don’t believe it’s factual that sexual abuse as a child ‘promotes’ homosexuality.
The only scientific research I can give you at this point is MYSELF.
I was molested for 3 years by a brother. 9-11.
I was raped as a teenager.
I have never experienced any of the above or what you speak about.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:50am
GettingIt says:
ErinBrock, Thanks for the good read. I saved it on my desktop for tomorrow. This is the trick with Personality Disorders: only those who wish to change and work at it may be helped. By definition, our dears are way too arrogant to even perceive any type of problem within, so they are least likely to benefit from treatment. However, this is not the case with all personality disorders. Many do want to become more stable & contributing members of society.
BTW, something for all of us to be aware of: I read in a medical journal today that PTSD is linked to dementia, increasing the chance of developing dementia two – fold. The study was done on the Vets. But, I have a very strong feeling that it’ll be true for other PTSD Diagnosed as well. The thread seems to point to abnormal stress and changes within the brain structure (hippo- what?)
Ever thought of self as mentally ill? I do. PTSD is the name of my mental illness. Go figure,
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:59am
ErinBrock says:
It’s ironic how when one is ‘called’ mentally ill, by a spath…it is a ‘catch all’ derogatory statement, usually followed up with…..she/he belongs in a mental hospital. (or in my case….mental institute).
I think we are lightyears away from figuring this all out……
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 3:02am
OxDrover says:
If you look at the word ORDER, it means that everything is IN ORDER, DIS, on the other hand means that things are NOT in order.
I think the line between DISORDER and ILLNESS, as in Mental Dis order and Mental ILLNESS, is simply a game of semantics.
In depression say, there are gradients of HOW DEPRESSED a person is from say 0 to 10 with the person who is depressed a 10 is catatonic and just sits and stares off into space.
We (medical science) know that there are CHEMICAL imbalances inside the brain to cause depression and sometimes medication will help raise the mood.l Sometimes in severe cases Electro convulsive therapy is used in addition to medication to raise the mood.
In some cases, such as PSYCHOPATHY, (called ASPD in the DSM IV) there really isn’t a treatment for that component of their problems, however, if the person also has ADHD and/or Bi-Polar, those aspects of. the persons problems can be treated with medication and/or talk therapy. It still may not make the person less dangerous or make them able to bond to others in a meaningful way. They very well may remain a predator and/or live a criminal lifestyle.
The psychopath does not perceive that s/he has any problems, any difficullties s/he has in life is because of others. Not themselves or their behavior. They lack a moral compass, a conscience, and/or caring for the welfare of anyoone else. (etc)
The Axis II “disorders” are pretty well “set in stone” with little likelyhood of much if any significant behavior changes with either medication or therapy, IMHO.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 11:56am
zimzoomit says:
Merr5923 wrote,
“He once made the brag to me that everyone hated him because he was soooooo much smarter then them. How do you treat someone with that attitude?”
My ex also seemed to “brag”..basically was expressing (it seemed to me, anyway) how much “better” he was than one of the guys (who he introduced me to, and who at that time owned a recording studio in MD, and later still, would be busted for drugs) he’d done juvie time with, because he (the alleged braggart and Spath), at least, had stopped doing drugs. But he didn’t stop his pathological lying.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 12:55pm
zimzoomit says:
Taking a late lunch now, bloggers, which is when I typically comment or blog, when I blog.
About the DSM category talk..personally, I think Cultural Relational Therapy is superior to CBT, or at least better for Battered Women’s Syndrome. It doesn’t “assume” something “wrong” in the Battered Woman’s “behavior” that “brought on” the domestic abusing from the woman’s ex. It explores deeper than CBT. I know someone who saw a (CBT-based) counselor only three times, and that counselor was ready to label her records with “borderline?” after only three days, even though the counselor well-knew that other psychologists before her had diagnosed the patient/client (my friend) with PTSD. We have to be careful to SCREEN our counselors very thoroughly, to ask them what major theories they apply, b/c some of them may be sadists. My friend thought that CBT-based counselor was a sadist. It so happens that one social worker, a male, who’d worked under her, also thought she was sadistic, and left that counselor’s practice. My friend confided these things to me. I believe her, and have never known her to be malicious, nor to ever conflate or distort information (I’ve known her for more than 40 years.) That CBT-based counselor asked my friend if she wasn’t “villainizing” the Spath employer she’d had. My friend said she couldn’t get out of that office fast enough, after that question from the CBT-based counselor, and made it clear that the counselor’s techniques and methods were not to her liking, that she intended to find another counselor with whom she could feel comfortable if she was going to divulge about her past history of abuse, childhood, etc. Thank god she did.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:10pm
zimzoomit says:
Spath counselors can cause iatrogenesis (harm!) Look up the term.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 1:12pm
Wini says:
I believe there needs to be an agency (for both private and public sector) that an employee can make complaints to regarding anti-social personalities they have to endure while in the workplace. I know, I know, people will say that the whistle blowers unit was designed just for this aspect, but, my personal experience with the whistle blowers sections are they are a bunch of sell outs too, giving heads up to management that a renegade or disgruntle employee complained to their agency.
Been there, done that … and the woman who spoke with me regarding my 1st official complaint that my big boss was a psychopath who was getting her kicks out of destroying my career … said to me “you do realize Wini that we have a Republican governor in office now”.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh. Oh, just to update everyone … that psycho Governor was forced out of office, spent a small (pitifully small amount of time for stealing all the money in our state) in prison for being the criminal narcissist that he is. He now has the title of felon attached to his name. I wonder what that woman at the whistle blowers commission thinks now? But, same ole, same ole … his political buddies ensured he had a high paying job back in SIN CITY where he comes from. Good grief and all the whistle blowers that got their lives destroyed still can’t get hired anywhere.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 3:05pm
zimzoomit says:
I can certainly empathize, Wini..agree with your statement, “Good grief and all the whistle blowers that got their lives destroyed can’t get hired anywhere.” So true. I have seen my more-than-fair-share of Spath employers. One of them, when he hired me (it was a state job) asked me in the pre-employment interview, “Do you believe in God? Just asking, because if I didn’t, I wouldn’t have shuffled your resume to the top of the pile.” I’d explained to him I had a disabling joint condition during the pre-employment interview, but didn’t tell him about the Battered Women’s Syndrome symptoms, and I REALLY needed that job. After hired, and he tried to add on a non-essential task of (occasional cashiering, which wasn’t on my predecessor’s job description, and which I cannot do after being robbed at gunpoint by a felon, and held hostage, left bound and bleeding–happened to me while in that task, at a job that wasn’t my main occupation, but in one of two “tide-me-over”, P/T jobs), and I asked him for what I thought was a SMALL accommodation to my 2nd disabling condition (all I asked him for was a cubicle wall installed, around my desk, to allow privacy, so I could concentrate when I had to do “accounting” type tasks, he refused, asked me if my attacker was black or white, to which I answered, “That really shouldn’t make any difference, but if you really want to know, he was black.” Well, being the African American he is, he asked, “Is my face going to morph into his?” He had a chip on his shoulder, I think. He said he’d experienced racism when he lived down south. The guy was an absolute despot, was my opinion, but if I’d ever been racially prejudiced (never have been!), I would never have consented to take the job. When he refused to let me use the EAP state plan for assisting my disability, I complained to HR, and he fired me three days later. The jerk. When I first brought up the accommodation request, he also asked/taunted, “Shall I call your references. I haven’t done that yet. Why don’t you show me a copy of your college degree?” I said, “Sure. I’ll bring it in tomorrow.” Don’t know if what he did was legal, but he’d also asked, before hiring me, to send HR a copy of my last earning statement from my former employer (I don’t think that was legal, either. But certainly the “god-smacking” question, in the pre-employment interview, when it was a state job, I think others besides myself, could’ve been interpreted as potential religious discrimination (as in “failing to separate church and state”) The main HR guy was also in his 50s, another African American, who arrogantly told me, when I filed my EEO complaint, requesting accommodation, “You won’t win. We always win.” He had, just as my boss had, these blood-shot eyes, like road maps running through them, as if he was on some medication or another (or drugs). It’s just sickening these days, as if age discrimination isn’t bad enough, they’ve got to disability discriminate, on top of it, and/or pile on reverse racial discrimination and/or gender discrimination, on top of the other offenses, just because we will not put up with hostile work environments. Yes. I totally empathize. I never experienced job discrimination until after turning age 40; then the sh*t hit the fan. Of course, I was living with that (alleged) Spath while it went down. I was put, illegally, on admin. leave, AFTER I’d passed my probation period with flying colors and high recommendations from my first supervisor; it was the next supervisor who put me on the illegal leave, after I’d complained about (PROVEN!) harassment from two co-workers, one of which had tampered with my time sheet. Though I did get a settlement, I had no option but to resign. Well, the offending supervisor (IMO “despot”), who, when he did his dirty deeds, was also voted out of office “no confidence” by 17 of his peers, because he’d offended them, too, and he was voted out of his position less than 8 months after he’d taken the directorship. I heard it through the grapevine that at least one of the hostile co-workers was also let go, for doing what she did to me. Of course, the (alleged) Spath in my life, gave me little-to-no support, in my opinion, after this happened. To the contrary, he told me that I should’ve just “put up and shut up”..as if I should’ve tolerated hostility in the workplace, when, after filing my legit grievance, I went to work daily, for weeks, with knots in my stomach; he also, in my opinion, tried to control how I spent my settlement money. Nice, huh?
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 3:54pm
Wini says:
zimzoomit, “they” are all over the workforce in the good ole USA aren’t they? “They” do have their own language you know. I’ve learned from my former place of employment that female Spaths will laugh with the interviewer when asked questions as you were asked. Female Spaths make their moves on the interviewer, get asked out immediately for lunch, hired, promoted to at least a supervisor’s position … and the sky is the limit for the female Spaths. Whereas, suckers like us who are in touch with our emotions, get bullied from the very start of the interview. My interview March 30, 1980 went as follows:
I met with the female boss (that I decided to work with) … all went well.
2nd interview was with a male supervisor who bribed me with spending time at the beach on the company boat … and this guy had a crush on me for the 24 years that I worked there.
3rd interview was the final interview of the day with the director who wanted to find out if I made a decision who I would work for. Long story short, all the women in the office pulled up their chairs outside his glass partitioned office where the walls did not go up to the ceiling. We (the director and I) could hear every derogatory word those women (aka cats) said about me. It was so overwhelming that the director stopped the interview and said to me “don’t pay any attention to them, they are just jealous”.
I was floored, to say the least. When I got home that evening, my husband asked me how the interview went? I told him what happened and said “I just walked into the twilight zone”. I worked there for 24 years (could NEVER transfer out, they needed a work horse) but, I never changed my original opinion of “them”.
Peace.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 4:48pm
zimzoomit says:
Wini, well..about that state job under that (alleged) despot who put me on admin. leave illegally, I went through all the legal internal procedures of grievance. The state employment policy, even though I had them hands-down on discrimination, would not allow me to transfer within, to an unhostile area (unlike some fed jobs allow). I got two internal interviews (had to apply as if I were an outsider who’d never worked there) elsewhere in that institution, and things looked real good (I had always landed EVERY JOB to which I’d applied, for almost thirty years, before this snafu) with those interviews (potential supes seemed to like me), but somehow, even though I got two great letters of recommendation from my former supe (before the despot supe who took over his job, but my former supe still stayed in tenure, at the institution), my former supe, for some odd reason, told me not to use those references internally. What a creep. And I got neither job to which I’d applied, before I signed off on the settlement. The state had a policy that if anyone resigned or was let go due to any employment grievance (even if it was the hostile worker’s fault and not mine), no one could get hired at that institution for another two years, after the griever had filed his/her grievance. It sucked. After the two years had gone by, I applied again and again to that same institution, for different positions, but never again got an interview. The whole course of my life changed just because of that situation. Oh, and to make matters worse, it was my ALMA MATER, so instead of having great memories of the college where I was on the Dean’s list my last semester, I had horrible memories of the trauma of being wrongfully “terminated”, would never feel like gracing that place with my presence again, and will NEVER give $ to my alma mater, when they solicit me annually for contributions to the institute (thumb to nose here.) At least you had a husband who was supportive of your situation. I, instead, had that (alleged) Spath..a sex addict and perpetual commitment phobe, living in my home.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 30 June 2010 @ 8:39pm
BloggerT7165 says:
ZZ,
You are quite right in that people should select their counselors with care. They should select their doctors, dentists, lawyers, and any other professional with great care.
The problem is that even good hearted, kind, caring and decent counselors can cause harm. For example if they believe that someone just has to “get it out” and fully disclose things (i.e. sexual abuse) because they will “never heal” unless they do. That may be true for some but it is not true for all and persuading someone to do that can inflict more harm.
As for the whole CBT thing. It is not the CBT but rather the person using it. Taking one’s own personal experience and generalizing it out to the entire world is not such a good thing. I have known good therapists that use various different theories and I have known bad ones that use various different ones. One of the key pieces is to find one that you connect with.
And CBT doesnt “assume” something “wrong” in the Battered Woman’s “behavior” that “brought on” the domestic abusing from the woman’s ex. That assumption would be from the practioner not CBT.
I also wanted to talk about the whole sexual addiction thing you mentioned earlier. Personally I think (my opinion here) that the whole “addiction” label has gotten way out of hand and confused. If someone is a “porn addict” for years and all of a sudden they are cut off cold turkey, I have no fears that they are going to drop dead from it in my office. The same can not be said of things such as drugs and alcohol.
Sex, Pornography, Internet, etc are things that are “habits”. Maybe deeply ingrained habits but habits just the same. Technically if you can become “addicted” to these things you can become “addicted” to almost anything. Not to mention that it often comes across as trying to deny reponsibility. I am “addicted” to the way I tie my shoes and I bet there are others on here that are too.
Example – Get a large group (and try it yourself) and have them tie their shoes the Opposite of how they do it now. So if you start with left over right you would start with right over left etc. See how difficult, how long, and how many relapses and failures there are when it comes to doing a change this simple. You’ll find (if you get a good enough size group) that some can handle it fairly quickly and easily and others will have a horrible time of it and some won’t be able to do it. So are they “addicted” to the way they tie there shoes or is it a habit, a behavior they have done so many times that it becomes a part of them? And yes I know this cuts against the grain of some of the addiction crowd. The end result may be about the same as say an addiction to heroin but there is a difference. Of course as time goes by and the evidence (credible evidence not the junk studies) piles up it could show that I am very wrong and if so I will change my thoughts on it.
So what did that little rant have to do with psychopaths? I think that a good number of them use or try to use anything they can grasp as a “pity” play or excuse. “Really sweetheart, I don’t looove any of these other women. I can’t help myself because I am “addicted” to sex and just can’t stop.” or other similar lines. And for some there is the old (and not wrong) conventional wisdom that sticks with a lot of the addiction services of “once an addict always an addict” and you can see how easy that would be to twist and use.
Anyway just my 2 cents for what it is worth.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 1 July 2010 @ 2:08am
BloggerT7165 says:
ZZ,
You are much more likely to encounter a predator in the “self-help” pop psych movement. James Ray is a good example as shown on ABC the other night – http://tinyurl.com/27rm9re (link to the entire episode)
If you watch the video the piece at the very end is what I found interesting. The reasons they gave (compared to the one victims mother) were all based on what they themselves got out of it. When they said they would do it again even though people were hurt and died. As the one person said “because of what I am getting out of it” or as another said “It is horrible what happened in the sweatlodge, 3 people died but my life is better and I am so grateful for that, I’d do it again in a heartbeat.”
Sounds a lot like they are not much different (thought wise) than the accused.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 1 July 2010 @ 3:01am
OxDrover says:
Dear Blogger,
I saw that show the other night and my mouth fell open when those people he had bilked out of $10,000 to go through the “experience” which killed three people and they were still hooked. I wonder if it is some form of Stockholm syndrome that bonds them to him since he puts them through such trauma.
I sent Donna an article about him, and I think the man is a very adept con man selling “snake oil” to people who want to get rich and happy.
ZZ, I agree with BloggerT on what he was saying to you too about therapists. There are therapists and there are therapists, just like there are bad teachers and good teachers and Excellent teachers, and there are excellent teachers that just cant reach a CERTAIN student for some reason.
For PTSD I used a therapist who used “rapid eye movement Therapy” and FOR ME it worked well and quickly where just straight talk therapy had done very little goodl for me.
Also, keep in mind PTSD or depression etc. is not the SAME in everyone. It can vary in intensity of one part, duration, etc. so it may not respond to the same therapy for A as for BG.
My suggestion is to read all the 700+ articles in the archives here (go by author so you don’t miss the early articvles) there is something in each of them that at one time or another will make you go AH HA!!!!!! Glad you are here, this is a great place.
(Report abusive comment)
Thursday, 1 July 2010 @ 12:00pm
melanie says:
my mother is a narcissist and a sociopath and she is insane and brutal…though im 30 years old she thinks she can control me and has already dsetroyed my life…any interaction i have with her, is her trying to put me down abuse me, insult me or piss me off, then she goes around telling people im angry and putting me down….she is like a demon…im at my wit’s end with her, and another sp ive been dealing with, but when it comes down to it–my mother has destroyed m ylife in many ways and even trhough the legal system…she is cruel sick and like a criminal…how can you deal with these monsters, esp if they are famiyl members….this psychopath will demaen me any chance she gets, she is so sick in the head then blame it all on me….she is also ‘obsessed’ with me in some crazy sick way the same way a male is obsessed with a female he’s really into, that’s how this whackjob is with me….ive never met anyone as sick as he and the way she acts with me…it’s really scary….they do ‘anything’ just to get to you, push your buttons, and anything u say to them they yell scream throw fits….she is deranged….but the worst part is, i can’t get this sociopath outof my life….there are such strong ties….i feel so tied and trapped…b/c of everything she’s done to me…and whatever she continues to do…and when she leaves my place, after putting me through hell, then she has to knock and bang on the door one last time…so she can ‘do something more’ to piss me off….anything to do something i will object, to so then she can insult/harass me more….she is a very sick evil person…..and again i cant get her out of my life….she also does things so im yelling so i look like the bad one…so she or my family can make me look bad to others and badmouth me and say “oh she’s this adn that she has problems”…..how do you deal with these dysfunctional sociopathic people….they seem so skilled at their evils…like u cant fight their tactics….ive never met monsters who are so skilled at destroying another person….its like in their blood to ruin/destroy/upset/piss off, their targets or victims and u cant imagine what kind of tactics they use…then they play victim and throw the blame on you….ive been dealing with this bitch and wench for 12 years now and everything she has done to my life….and the worst part is…u cant get these nutjobs out of your life….they remain there just to destroy/attack/abuse you anyway they can…..and they do so in ways that leave them victorious you furious and you crippled and traumatized from all the abuse you have to deal with…they also just seem to ‘know’ how/when to abuse you at what timse…and what will ruin you the most…it’s almost like some kind of system ingrained in them….which leaves you powerless, upset, furious, confused, hopeless….they go out of their way to destroy your life and soul in any way possible…worse people think that because the fat cow is your ‘mother’ that she loves you and that you should respect her….when she is your worst enemy and not only has ruined your life, but continues to ruin you any chance she gets and every interaction she has…is about dominating/controlling/abusing terrorizing and taking control over you….how can u deal with/fight these monsters…..i cant figure out how….as they do not allow you your own opinions, rights anything…they fight to dominate/destroy…any way they can….no matter what…till the end and they have no remorse, no conscience for their evil sick behavior….and it is shocking to witness, a monster in action out to ruin someone and how sick they are in the head….i watched my own mother destroy her own daughters life for several years, for no reason go around claiming she’s a ‘doctor’ jsut to ruin her own child….do horrid things to her daughter…..and continue to abuse her any chance she gets….and even control her…i had a sadistic ex sociopath who called my mother and tried to tell her, that i had ‘oral sex’ with him…(big deal)…well my mother is now furious that i had ‘oral sex’ with a male….(how crazy as im 30) and is being more abusive as if i did something wrong and acts as if she needs to ‘become strict’ with me…im not sure how to relay to this nutjob that im an adult…and when i explain to this mentally deranged maniac that im an adult…and i can do what i want…she will start yelling “OH YOURE AN ADULT U DONT NEED MY HELP THEN HUH…UR AN ADULT U CAN DO THAT ON YOUR OWN….oh “YOURE AN ADUL”T HUH”?????’ trying to bully me into telling me that im not an adult…..and that i ened to ‘prove to her that im an adult’….i still try to explain to this loud mouthed witch that she can’t do that ot me or treat me that way she gets more furious and abusive….and violent and will start throwing things if she’s around me or even throwing things near me….she is crazy and sick….and people always side with her for some reason and will put me down….im quiet nice but even if i try to stand up for myself this psychopath gets belligerent and abusive….how can someone deal with a sick monster like this…..and she will even threaten to call the police on me if i argue back with her….she seems to think that she’s my ‘mother’ and can do ‘anything she wants’ to me and im a ‘child’..its really scary…..she also seems mentally ill and off in her thinking….and im not sure how to react to the situation…..she has also gotten me involved in things legally and taken control of my life so that i really dont have many rights….she is ruthless and sick…..and im not sure how to deal with aggressive belligerent psychos like that….or how to protect myself from a monster ie ‘parent’…who thinks they can do that to anyone much less their own offspring…..
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 5 July 2010 @ 9:15pm
style1 says:
To express and become more aware http://www.womenexplode.com
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 5 July 2010 @ 9:26pm
geminigirl says:
Dearest Melanie, darling, you will HAVE to do as Oxy has done with her Mother,{her egg-donor,} and Ive had to do with my 2 spath daughtes, NO CONTACT is the ONLY way you will ever win with biatches. like your Mother.
You will have to 1[ change your phone number,2] change your email address, your cell phone,3 change the locks on your front door, so she cant just barge in. Get off Facebook, twitter and MySpace, any avenue she can find you on.If you can move your house or condo, then do that. DONT give her a forwarding address.Leave instructions at your workplace that any calls from her to you will NOT be accepted by you.DONT listen to any supposedly “friendly” advice from family members, it will only backfire on you.You will have to draw on your own “inner spath’ and learn to be as ruthless as she is.
Fight fire with fire!In the meantime until your phone no. is changed, if she rings you, HANG UP right away, or better still go on voice mail, then you can delete her calls.
Hell, move states if you have to!
I had a girlfriend who was in an abusive violent marriage.I do admire her,–this is what she did, No kidding. She got a huge map of Australia,{where I live,}and put it on the floor. Then she blindfolded herself, after getting a pack of drawingpins out of her office. She vowed she would go wherever the pin landed. She lived in Sydney, and the pin landed on GOVE, which is the furthest North you can go in Australia on the Cape york peninsula{known as the :Top End”} without falling off the map into the sea.!!!LOL!!
Then, for YEAR, she worked nights as a barmaid,set up a secret bank account, and squirreled away every cent. {She had no kids yet, luckily.} She rrefused her husband sex fora year, even tho it meant more beatings.Then, she bought a run down old car.She packed a suitcase, and hid it.She booked a one way ticket as far north a s she could afford.to go.
One day when her hubby was a t work, she drove to the airport, got on the plane, left the car at the airport,{she didnt want it.} From the destination she got to, she got a n all night bus to the next point North,then another, till she got to Gove.
When there, she got a job as a barmaid, and kept it. Within a year, shed met a lovely half aboriginal guy, with a good job. They fell in love, and lived together till her divorce in absentia came through. Even tho she was quite ordinary looking, she married a nd had 3 gorgeous daughters by her new husband, and is still blissfully happy. She travelled roughly the distance from London, England, to Vladivostock in Russia{,ie, the whole of Europe and half of Russia} to geta way from her abusive husband.She took NOTHING with her except a small suitcase, and her guts,courage, and belief life couldnt get ny WORSE so it had to get better! Women were so scarce in Gove, that within the year shed had a dozen marriage proposals!Her husband installs swimming pools, works hard, doesnt drink, the girls a re doing well at school, and shes blissfully happy.I so admire this woman, she had guts and she did it!!If she could do THIS,, we can do whatever we have to to get away from the toxic spaths in our lives! TRUE STORY!
Homework from MamaGem, get a large atlas, look up Australia, find Sydney, and then find GOVE on the TOP END nth of Cape York!Then work out how far my friend had to travel to get away from the spath!!!! {{HUGGS!!}} Mama Gem.XXX{Oxy and EB I know youll love this story!!}
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 5 July 2010 @ 11:58pm
shabbychic says:
melanie, pretty much the same advice we gave you about your spath boyfriend…
No Contact!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 6 July 2010 @ 12:39am
kay777 says:
Very helpful read!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 3:56pm
style1 says:
okay guys.. the combined efforts of http://www.womenexplode.com
and lovefraud help reveal a con to a local woman near me.. today…
so our inner change is good…
and read the interview with a man on the blog over and over again until it sinks it.. it is coming out of his mouth and this is a nice guy …. not a con… but the motivation is there..the male motivation.. and it is more intense in a dysfunctional man…
We are going to be doing more articles with men..
http://www.womenexplode.com
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 5:30pm
bulletproof says:
read it over and over again? surely you should be on the mind control thread….
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 5:35pm
style1 says:
Bulletproof,
What a ’strange’ thing to write.
What is your motive for writing such a thing?
The point it that it is so clear in this interview.. clean and clear and if you read something once, you might not ‘get’ it.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 5:59pm
ErinBrock says:
Style:
You have been asked POLITELY NOT to continue to use LF for your own advertising.
I think your starting to piss peeps off a bit with your lack of respect of the requests.
If you think you can shove things down peoples throats and get a decent response…..revisit people skills 101.
I think the information on your page is great for women gossiping about life and whatnot…..but LF is a gender free environment dealing solely with toxic relatinships.
Due to your approach…..I will not support your website.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:26pm
learning says:
Bulletproof,
There are some posts that I just dont connect with, so I scroll over them …
It would be wonderful if we could relate to every single person, but that just doesnt happen in life.
But there is something here for everyone – so its a wonderful place for all of us!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:30pm
OxDrover says:
Style,
Though that “read it over and over” wasn’t addressed to me in particular, thank you, I can read something once and Get it 99.9% of the time.
I am glad that you are very enthusiastic about your web site. However, I have looked at it and found it not very germane to my healing process. While I do realize there are differences in men and women, I don’t think a generalized female slant on thinking or healing is anything I am interested in. For those who are interested in it, fine. There are many many links here that you have put up.
Other people do put up occasional links to their own websites and as far as I know Donna has never made an issue about it, but these people don’t keep on and on on every post they make. They contribute other things besides their “great links” to love fraud and they don’t keep on and on telling everyone how great their own site is.
You might check with Donna and see if she is interested in posting a LINK to your site on Love Fraud as she has some other sites. That way you can save yourself the trouble of posting your own link on a daily basis.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:36pm
style1 says:
Erin Brock
Wow ! What acidity.
Together my site with this one assisted a woman and this is your response. Priorities seem to be a bit off here. Separation is not going to assist anything..
Why so much bitterness on this site from some and at times? There is no threat.. My site is different in contect and agenda but similar in others. Life can be full of fun and enjoyment, happiness and sharing and still assist people in growth.
Think about that and have a nice day.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:40pm
erin1972 says:
Style1- I am the other Erin on LF and I am very tired of you promoting your website as well. It is redundant and obnoxious to keep doing it when people ask you to stop. I definitely will NOT support it. Your repetitive posting has not encouraged me to visit your site.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:46pm
learning says:
Oxy/Erin B
Great ideas for Style… I think previously Erin very nicely suggested Style check with Donna about how to advertise on this site…and Oxy thats a great idea about checking with Donna about posting a link to Styles site, if Donna felt it to be healing and helpful to post a link to the site.
Good ideas for sure!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:46pm
ErinBrock says:
Thanks style….I prefer Caustic!
I think….you can answer your own question.
Donna has worked very hard to build this site…..and if each of us insessantly posted our own venue advertising in the blog……LF would not be what it is today.
“assist people in growth” OR…..shove it down their throats!
I think your approach has been counter productive and a turn off.
Good day to you to!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:52pm
style1 says:
I am more than happy to promote lovefraud on my site and have and I am in communication with Donna, we are linked in on other sites.
Thank you for your well wishes.. and happy thoughts.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 6:59pm
bulletproof says:
I don’t think my response is ’strange’
your approach is irritating, I don’t like the name womenexplode… it excludes men…I’m not a moron…I have been to your site and really embraced it, and I would listen to something twice if I thought it was worth it….and to be frank I don’t really like it because its pushy over there too…. I would hate for that tone to spread over here because I would be gone….so stop trying to project “strange” over here..
Learning…yes I have scrolled over this, and will from now on but style 1 comes back with another spin advertisement where selling the product seems more important that the people it serves…which is bad business in my opinion…
Style 1 You don’t seem to ‘get it’ perhaps you should read my response over and over till it sinks in …but you do not seem to care!!! instead suggesting I’m strange with “motives ” Can I not dislike your “product”
I also will not be supporting your site because of your approach and response to me
EB- you have said it all…I agree with all the points you make, thank you…peace to all…
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 7:23pm
Buttons says:
Style, you’re not respecting BOUNDARIES, here. Please, refrain.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 7:59pm
Rosa says:
I think it should be WomenXplode.com instead of WomenExplode.com.
“Xplode” instead of “explode” is more edgy and creative.
And the female chromosome is the X chromosome, so it all ties together better with what you are doing.
You can make a much more effective logo with WomenXplode than you can with WomenExplode.
The word “Explode” implies a bad surprise.
And the last thing I (your target market) need in my life is another grenade.
So, I’m not sure about the word “explode”.
These are just my thoughts on how you could punch up the title of your site, Style.
I have a background in marketing/sales.
So, I am not just talking out of my behind here.
But, I’ve never actually been to your site, so I don’t know what it’s about.
I’m just going off of seeing your site posted here.
Punch it up a little.
Find your niche and create a need.
Good luck with your endeavors.
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 8:01pm
style1 says:
Rosa, great idea.. Amy and I came up with this idea over lunch, less than a month ago.. then a week and a half later, she is on Washington Business tonight promoting it.
It has taken off like wild fire.. and we will be on some other news programs soon.. and this will give lovefraud advertisemet also. There is enough in this world to go around.
Explode doesn’t mean ‘bad’ surprise to everyone, of course, but, I understand the sensitivities of some on here.
Our site is for fun, epxression and adventure and also healing..and awareness, political.. restaurant reviews.. all sorts of things..happy things, not all down and dirty things. Also, men love our site and are very supportive.
I want to lift the feminine denominator… I am tired of women being demeaned in so many ways and many men agree with this premise.
Great idea about the Xplode… thanks..
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010 @ 8:18pm