Futility: trying to save a sociopath
PDF Dorothy Hooks is a Christian woman who tries to live by the Bible. When she met Cedric Youngblood, she saw a man who never had a chance. His family life as a child had been abusive. He had been in and out of jail. Dorothy saw someone who just needed to get out of the ghetto and learn the meaning of love and family.
In Dorothy, Cedric saw a giving, caring woman who wants to do the right thing and help people.In other words, Cedric saw a target.
Last week, the Cedric Youngblood story was posted on Lovefraud.com. Dorothy courageously talks about her marriage to the man who she now realizes is a sociopath. But for more than three years, Dorothy focused on Cedric’s potential, hoping he would change his abusive behavior.
Again and again, Dorothy gave Cedric another chance. She kept forgiving his cheating and his violence. She knew he could change.
He didn’t.
“I didn’t realize that for a person to change, he has to want to change,” she says. “If that person doesn’t want to change, he’s not going to change.”
Victimizing nurturing women
In his book, Without Conscience, Dr. Robert Hare points out that psychopaths (the term he uses) are experts at identifying and victimizing nurturing women.
There are many people in the world who want to think the best of everyone.Time and time again, Lovefraud has heard from people who have been deceived and defrauded by sociopaths who say, “I never knew such evil existed.”
It does.
Sociopaths make up 1% of the population. That means in the United States, there are 3 million of these predators looking for victims. These people have no heart, no conscience and no remorse. By the time they are adults, their personalities are set. Any attempt to change them is futile.
Discerning those who want to change
Of course, there are millions of people who get into trouble in their lives and deserve a second chance. So it’s important to be able to differentiate those who can be rehabilitated from those who can’t.
The first step is to accept that sociopaths exist. The second step is to know the symptoms of the disorder.
Then we may be able to discern the people who really want to change from the sociopaths who only mouth the words so they can keep bleeding us.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
lesson learned says:
Art,
Find a quiet place, Chica. Think about the marriage and the things that happened during it. WHAT,if anything (discount good times) happened during your marriage that he did that was horrendous. Write those things down. When you’re done, take a look at it. THAT is who he is/was.
Secondly,whenever you think about her, the new woman, think about this. It doesn’t matter whom she is, what she looks like, nothing. She’s buying into the same BS that he fed you spoonfuls of. YOU know the truth. As time moves on because of their MAJOR entitlements, lying, contradictions,lackof empathy, things catch up to them. It is NOT possible for the mask to stay on and often, it fell off while you were with him,or it would slip and you overlooked it. This is why it’s important to write down all the ROTTEN things he did to you. Everything you can think of. This is the ACCURATE portrait of whom he IS and what he WAS.
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one_step_at_a_time says:
LL paying it forward!
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lesson learned says:
(((((((((((( ONE! )))))))))))))))))))
ANd that’s what it’s all about!
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Aerin says:
lesson learned,
Awww…thanks so much again. It was my greatest worry when I was pregnant that her father was going to “tarnish” her upbringing. I had hope that once our daughter was born he was going to see the light and become a better person for her. Well…we know what happened there. He became even worse. There was no way in hell I was going to let his behavior hurt her in anyway. So yes…I know she’s off to a good start. Like you said kids make mistakes. I hope I teach her the wisdom to see between right & wrong, and to more importantly follow her gut instinct. That’s something I had to learn the hard way, hopefully it won’t be the same for her. I know it won’t!
That’s a great story about your daughter’s ex bf (psycho). That probably made both you and your daughter feel so good knowing that she has the power now and he can’t hurt her anymore!! Great story indeed!!!
Your right about for now just living life day to day without toxic people in it! That’s the best thing ever. To have peace of mind!!
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Not-too-late says:
Dorothy Hooks says, “I didn’t realize that for a person to change, he has to want to change,” she says. “If that person doesn’t want to change, he’s not going to change.”
Does that mean that if the spath wants to change, he will change?
Ex has been insisting he wants to change, even saying that that is all he thinks about. Of course, he asked me to help him many times, and finally he gets it that I am not going to help him.
Today he sent me an excerpt from a book (Angry Men and the Women Who Love them) to show that he is now beginning to understand some things. The book says that for men who are violent to their partners, they were abused in their childhood and have arrested development, so that their brains are affected and as adults can’t control their emotional responses. Ex pointed out that in the past he never understood such concepts but now he is going to look into it because it seems to make sense in his situation. I now wish I never mentioned that book to a counselor he spoke to – that counselor asked to see me for my perspective and since I know he tells people I only read secular books, I quoted this one because it is written by a pastor.
So I don’t get it – does all this mean that a spath doesn’t change because he doesn’t want to, but if he wants to, because he knows he will gain more, he will change?
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tobehappy says:
I think that most do not realize how their childhood damaged them.My x socios both refused to look at their lives to see how it messed them up.
I don’t think they can deal with thier painful pasts…..
Anytime I tried to explain how childhood traumas effect people..he would say”I don’t know about that”..
DUH!
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tobehappy says:
He NEVER wanted to talk about his childhood…
they disassociate…..
denial…its a defense mechanism
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lesson learned says:
NOt, are you sure you’re not being manipulated heavily here? They’re so good with tactics. I would put LITTLE IF ANY attention to words, but to ACTIONS…….if he lies, if he is incapable of empathy,, these are the things that only you know from your history with him.
I think you’re being manipulated. If he has a personality disorder, it cannot be changed. Part of the disorder,ironically, is to try to get you sucked into believing that it can. NC sista
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tobehappy says:
Deep rooted issues do NOt change overnight. He would need a professional therapist in order to even try to change.
Very difficult to reroute those neurons….
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lesson learned says:
Yep, what tobe said and good point! Look how long it’s taking some of us and/or has taken some of us. That’s a super good point tobe that also goes to manipulation. A manipulator will make you want to THINK this can be done “overnight”with some sort of miraculous revelation…and really, what it amounts too, is just another lie….
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aussiegirl says:
artheart says:
“I don’t know how to respond to specific posts.”
What I do is to copy and paste as I go along, comments from others I intend to comment on, into the “Post a Comment” box at the end of the thread. Then, when I’m done reading, I go to the box and edit and comment.
“When we were trying to “save” our marriage, I kept reading that it is best to stay with the person you are with, because when the necessary changes happen, then the person ends up being a better husband. If you don’t, then all of your hard work goes to the next person that your husband ends up with”
This can be true if you were with a NORMAL person with NORMAL flaws and issues. If, however, you are with a very DISORDERED person, this does not apply. Several of the Personality Disorders are very resistant to change or treatment; in fact, some of them preclude treatment by their very nature – the PD person does not think that anything is the matter with them, so never seeks or else refuses to be assessed for dignosis and/or treatment. Sociopathy is rarely diagnosed on a voluntary basis and is NOT treatable (anyone who has evidence to the contrary, please jump in here and correct me!)
So – you are trying to compare apples with oranges.
“I also have to see how happy he appears with his new person.”
Yes, but isn’t that how he looked with YOU, at first? It doesn’t mean it’s real.
“He tells everyone that I have done what he has done. He sends me threatening emails ”
Classis spath symptoms. If so, you can bet your bottom dollar that the “happy” look is fake – and that it will not last.
“he actually says with the most sincere heart that he was never unfaithful in our marriage, and this new person and, I think, even his children believe him! He was horrendous during our marriage in so many ways, and he has turned it all on me.”
No. Not with any kind of “heart”, much less a “most sincere” one!!! He says it with a scheming and manipulative mind for an immoral and unprincipled purpose. The truth will out, in the end. Patience. xx
“How do I move past this?”
Read here. Post here. LISTEN here. Much good advice to be had, much healing for your soul and heart and good information for your mind. We will all help one another – THAT’S how we each move past this.
Not-too-late -
“Does that mean that if the spath wants to change, he will change?….Ex has been insisting he wants to change, even saying that that is all he thinks about. Of course, he asked me to help him many times, and finally he gets it that I am not going to help him.”
The only “change” a spath can make is to “change tack”. If he is a spath, then any alleged remorse or any professed repentance is nothing more than a tactical manouvre. Yes, it is true that NORMAL people with NORMAL flaws and issues CAN change if they really want to and if they work hard at doing so.
You need to first determine whether you are dealing with a “normal” person, or a disordered one. If disordered, the chances of genuine and positive change are scant. If they are a sociopath, there is NO CHANCE; but there are plenty of tricks to be played by them while they are fooling you into thinking that they might.
Mine looked so genuinely remorseful that he collapsed on the floor, on his heads and knees, and bawled and wailed like a banshee, shaking and sobbing and begging my forgiveness and saying that I should never forgive him because he had hurt me so badly and I was such a good person who did not deserve to be stuck with the likes of him, and he dry-retched and heaved until the snot ran out of his nose and all over his face and hands.
And I though (mistakenly) – who could fake THAT?
I’ll tell you who – HE could. He has proven ever since that it was all for show. Never underestimate a spath.
EVERYTHING that they do, say and think is for a purpose. All just another part of their MASTERPLAN.
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aussiegirl says:
BTW Lesson – You have turned a corner these past few days. In advising others the same things you have asked about and learned here, you have moved forward in your healing journey. You might not see it or feel it just yet, but those of us who have already been there, know it to be true for you, and we rejoice and wish you peace. xx
TOWANDA girlfriend!!!!!
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lesson learned says:
LOL! Aussie! Thank you!
But you’re right, I’m still in a lot of pain. I do feel a shift happening, but I’m encouraged if it’s noticed. I hope it just keeps going! This site has just been my salvation and it’s helped to help others too.
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lesson learned says:
LOL Aussie,I’m sorry but that line gave me a super big chuckle
Mine looked so genuinely remorseful that he collapsed on the floor, on his heads and knees, and bawled and wailed like a banshee, shaking and sobbing and begging my forgiveness and saying that I should never forgive him because he had hurt me so badly and I was such a good person who did not deserve to be stuck with the likes of him, and he dry-retched and heaved until the snot ran out of his nose and all over his face and hands.
LMAO!!!!!!!!! NICE!!
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Not-too-late says:
So Aussie, what do you think of the rare narc that has supposedly changed? Eg, narcissismcured.com is run by a reformed narcissist and his wife, from Australia. They also once had a guest blogger who was a therapist for victims but was a narcissist herself. Could it depend on what the root of the narcissism is?
Look, I have no intention of reconciling. Goodbye is goodbye for me. Good luck to him if he changes.
I am just curious as to whether one could change if he wanted very badly to – otherwise, it seems unfair that they are doomed to such an existence even if they wanted to change. I am not sure if there is a personality disorder, because his psychologist doesn’t think so, but you know what I think of that psychologist. I personally think it is a combination of childhood invalidation and entitled, violence-supporting beliefs. Some go through abuse as a child but don’t end up being an abuser, so that’s no excuse, as Bancroft would say. But it would help if that part was looked at – it would help his insecurity, shame, rejection, etc.
But apart from that, he does seem to have the thinking errors of a disturbed person – entitled, defiant, egocentric, etc. That entitlement to control other people is so ingrained that he really doesn’t see what is wrong and if he didn’t control, he would feel out of control.
Ex is very good at crying too. He howled the day he left – poor 7 year old son was feeling so bad for him he asked me why he had to go. Not because he felt bonded, but because he couldn’t stand to see him cry. All those who have bothered to call me have told me that he has cried to them and it just shocked them so much they didn’t have the heart to challenge him. I guess it’s not usual to see a man cry. It’s also harder to believe that a man is a toxic dangerous jerk if he is crying as if he was upset at losing his family. Arrgh. Wish he never got arrested – he was just plain obnoxious and aggressive till then. But scary too.
No Contact? Just so hard. We have kids, we have mutual friends, we have joint property (even though we have settled property, we still own them in the same community title). Tonight, his mother arrived from interstate. He dropped her at my place and waited around the corner. Tomorrow she sees the kids again, but I arranged for lunch outside. Already tonight, during the short time at home, she has seen enough to tell him certain things. She is not very close to him anyway, but he is very good at getting things out of people. I couldn’t tell her not to come, because the kids were waiting for their Christmas gifts. She is like him – OK in small doses.
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aussiegirl says:
NTL -
I don’t know enough about Narcissistic PD yet; I’ll have to study up so you think I’m smart! From the little I’ve read, I have reason to believe that my father has NPD.
I did extensive research a few years ago, on Borderline PD, because I was convinced that my ex (the spath) had it. I think I mentioned it on another thread recently. Anyhow, at the time, I still believed that he was genuinely remorseful over the dreadful things he had done and that illness was driving his compulsions to do nasty and immoral things – a bit like the “voices” that a schizophrenic will hear, or the paranoia that someone with untreated Bi-Polar disorder might develop which can cause them to behave aggressively and in ways that they honestly believe mean that they are “defending themselves” against conspirators.
Spath had ALL of the indicators for BPD (although it does tend to be diagnosed more predominantly in females rather than males) BUT it was ME who falsely attributed several of the criteria that I later realised he did NOT meet. For instance, an overwhelming fear of abandonment that leads to BPD’s rejecting first, for fear that they will be rejected later. Spath had no such fears – that was my overly-kind (and admittedly heart-broken and desperate) interpretation of his rejection of me, and of significant others in his life.
Also, BPD’s tend not to have their own interests, hobbies, etc. so they “blend” and “meld” with that of their partners; they have a sense of unreality about themselves, as if they do not exist, do not count for anything and are therefore “invisible” and unimportant, which can panic them and send them spiralling into serious depressive and suicidal bouts. When spath copied everything about me and shadowed and absorbed all of my hobbies, friends and interests, what he was actually doing was holding up that mirror to me – the one in which I would see those things I liked, admired and enjoyed. He feigned complete compatability so that I would think that we were “meant to be together”. When I was trying to understand what was wrong with him, my research of BPD seemed to show that the reason he sucked my personality out of me and into him was that he didn’t think he had one of his own, or that he was “good enough”. Again, this was a way-too-kind take on what he was actually doing, which was a painstakingly cruel and deliberate scam.
Then there was the “remorse”. BPD’s as a rule, will feel terrible regret for their addictive and compulsive behaviours (gambling, drinking, sexing, drugs, shop-lifting, etc.) after the fact and hate themselves for it. Spath pretended that this was how things were with him. It took me a very long time to work out that he was not at all sorry, but was only crying just enough crocodile tears to keep me in the scam. My love for him at the time madely me kindly-disposed and compassionate toward him, as I searched for answers as to why such a “good man” could act so wickedly.
Lo and behold, if the mask didn’t drop just as soon as the psychiatrists wanted to do tests on him! Suddenly, he became angry and resistant to the help he was being offered. Once the switch came, the angry button stayed pushed and has been jammed for over 3 years in the “on” position. The vitriol and bile I have heard spew from that same mouth and the venom I have seen shot at me from those same eyes, have chilled me to the bone. He won’t change because as far as he’s concerned, nothing’s wrong with HIM; I am the “vile and disgusting person” – they were his exact words about me at a court hearing 2 months back.
This is why I believe everything I have read here and elsewhere about spaths never changing.
As for the other Personality Disorders – there are some excellent treatments available for BPD – it is emminently treatable and BPD’s can live a good and peaceful life with proper help. I guess that’s why I wanted it to be BPD so badly.
I don’t know enough about the others to comment, although I did care for a young woman with Bi-Polar disorder for about a year, and found that if she stuck to her meds and stayed away from alcohol and drugs (which were her undoing), she functioned really well and had a productive life.
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lesson learned says:
Not,
My ex POS tried that same garbage with his ex wife too. At her church, to her entire family (they weren’t buying it), all their friends (only one bought it), and to the children. The crying, the reform (he’s still in therapy), reading (still gets the books, reads about a quarter of the way, then they collect dust), and NOTHING has changed in the SLIGHTEST. Not ONE thing. And it can’t because HE doesn’t see that ANYTHING is wrong. He hates therapy and his therapist (it’s not doing me any good), and I believe now that the therapy is apart of the divorce agreement to be able to have joint custody of the children. But he is the same nasty, mean, lying denying manipulative jerk he’s always been.
I know of the site Narcissismcured. I’ve read it and was nauseated. I think it’s INCREDIBLY dangerous. That is just my opinion. ALL of the N’s I’ve known, were NOT curable. I think “cure” is the wrong word even IF by any stretch of the imagination, they were able to be dealt with via medication and/or cognitive behavioral therapy.
I think the manipulation here is huge on his end and YOU are the target.
I think the contact you have with he and his fam, (More than one should be given KNOWING what he is), will make it VERY difficult for you NOT to go back. Just sayin…
Stay strong.
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tobehappy says:
When my xhusb wanted to reconcile right before the final divorce…(which my lawyer said was to wipe out the 2ok he owed me…and he knew my mother was dying and I would be getting some money….HA!)…the top notch therapist..(luckily) who told me that he was a true sociopath..(part of the brain..called the conscience..is missing!)….
This therapist told me that there is NO cure, therapy, or medication for his disorder. He said that if he was bipolar or had OCD…he could be helped.
The divorce judge stated in court…”You are UNREHABILITATIVE”
OMg…Now I know what he meant…he also KNEW that there was NOTHING that would help him….he is EVIL…still is.
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lesson learned says:
tobe,
I just wanted to take the time to say thank you. You have been enormously helpful in processing my experience. While I”m still stuck in some stuff, I’m still in process, but each time you’re willing to share your experience with me, my experience becomes more true and real. I wish there was a way to speed the process, but I know there’s not.
Thank you again.
LL
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Ox Drover says:
In the “for what it is worth” department, as for NPD and BPD and PPD, histriohic PD, dependent DP etc. I think there is a GREAT DEAL of OVERLAP, and I am not sure that there is any more difference between saying one is one of those than saying “a beagle” is a dog and a fox terrier is a dog, they are both dogs, and look somewhat different, or even a beagle vs a mastiff they are all DOGS just a bit different in how big or small, color and so on. Some are more aggressive than others and some are more passive but they are all DOGS. So I think you can say THEY ARE ALL PERSONALITY DISORDERS, and there is a great deal alike about ALL personality disorders.
The only difference is that we can’t LOOK at them and see that they are “different” breeds, yet the SAME SPECIES. I think we spend way too much time arguing with ourselves and each other over which “breed” a personality disordered person is, and it is my opinion IT DOES NOT MATTER, once you see that there are TOXIC PATTERNS you have nailed the SPECIES “PERSONALITY DISORDERED” and that is as far as you need to go. Nothing you do is going to make them change species. You can’t turn a cat into a dog, or a dog into a cat….just not possible. You may be able to dress the cat up to look like a dog but it will never BE a Dog. Same with a PD of any breed, they are PD and nothing will change that….no matter how many manners you teach them, or how much formal education you give them or how much money they get they are still the SAME SPECIES. Bernie Madoff is the same species as Ted Bundy, just not the same “breed” of murderer and rapist, but the SPECIES is the same.
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kim frederick says:
well, I don’t think a true died in the wool spath will ever change. They might pretend for a while, but they can’t keep it up forever. On the other hand, there are a lot of disorders, and many of them are treatable. So, again it all comes back to empathy and remorse…but they can be faked, too.
The fact that you ask this question makes me think you are still hoping you can somehow have a relationship with your X.
Of course, that is up to you, and it’s possible he isn’t a spath, but You might want to take a look at Kathleen Hawks aticalls on denial and bargaining. It might be helpfull to you.
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shabbychic says:
Oxy, great advice, I believe you pointed that out to me a while back
and it is true, whatever they are, they are bad for us.
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tobehappy says:
LL….I appreciate your gratitude towards me. I am on here because it is healing for me to help others.
My experience with the soicios in my life…have prompted me out of desparation, to look at myself ….to understand why I was a socio magnet.
I learned that we really function by default programming…our subconscious…all of the things we were “programmed” to believe…in our brain…from birth!
The reason I got so into studying this, is because I knew that “I” needed to reprogram my neurons to NOT be attracted to abuse. I love Bruce Lipton, because he talks all about this. I am reading his book…The Biology of Belief …and I listen to him on youtube.com.
At my age…53, I am blessed to look young…(people think I am 40)…and I still feel young inside..and after this last experience…I knew that I HAD to do something to change myself so that I don’t ever tolerate lies and abuse from anyone in my life.
Back in February, I was screaming and sobbing …(and THIS site saved my life!), at my sister’s house…that I wanted to take out my brain and smash it!! “I” was in so much pain…because I felt that I would NEVER feel worthwhile because of all of the programming from my socio mom’s abuse. I felt HELPLESS…but I didn’t want to die. I love my children too much….and I love myself…but I HATED my subconscious brain! lol!!!
I logged onto here…and Erin Brock, Oxy, Kathleen….and others …helped me to tuck myself into my bed on a cold icy night…instead of going out for a ride in my car…which could have been disasterous…crying and driving on ice!
I didn’t want my girls to see me breaking down. So, the wonderful people here SAVED my life. I will never leave this board…(wouldn’t a get together in the future be awesome! lol)
Anyway, I made a COMMITMENT to myself…to do whatever it takes to reroute my neurons…I googled it and got a bunch of information.
I learned that all of the pain I survived, was because I was functioning from the subconscious. The “trauma” from childhood never left me. I was determined to learn to live in the HERE AND NOW and not let my OLD beliefs control my life.
The “old beliefs” that I deserve abuse…I’m not worthwhile…people who abuse you love you ….were the reason that everyone in work disliked the xbf, yet I felt sorry for him and trusted him, and believed his act..and let him lie his way into my life. Anyone to fill my void…that I’m not worthy of someone real.
I didn’t go after him…he zoomed into me…knowing that I was insecure with myself…and I could be taken advantage of easily…and used…which he did…he used me.
I stopped blaming myself …and I blame my “childhood programming”…which my socio mom had NO idea what she was doing…She was abused and the cycle repeated. I realized that it was Programming by Default…and that it could be fixed. I could learn to control my thoughts and be happier. And this is the stage that I am at right now.
It is working…I am getting better everyday. I am more peaceful…I broke my addiction to abuse…I don’t want my x in my life ever again…I KNOW that I deserve people in my life that care….nothing less.
So, u are very welcome. I enjoy paying it forward on here.
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skylar says:
tobehappy,
thanks for sharing your steps for deprogramming.
For me, it wasn’t hard to deprogram from the spaths bs, but my parental programming is my problem. I can’t get past the idea that my mom is a perfect saint, then I see little slips of the mask…how she seeds envy between the kids, how she has no respect for boundaries and how controlling she is. But I know she spends almost an hour every night praying. She doesn’t do this for show, she goes into her bedroom and closes the door, but if you walk in she is on her knees with the rosary. Both my parents know that my spath-sister is truly evil but they just keep letting her get away with attempts to destroy her siblings, so she can inherit everything.
I thought, that because I understood my exP, I understood all the disordered minds, but I don’t. I don’t get my parents.
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tobehappy says:
Plain and simple…Your Mom, sorry to say, may be a sociopath….which could be why you attracted one??? I don’t know…I totally analyzed my childhood. All of my siblings as well as myself, have anxiety disorders and issues from our childhood. My youngest brother is in denial and so he is married to my “mother”…his wife is a selfish abusive controlling narcissist.
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Ox Drover says:
Dear ToBehappy,
Darling, THANK YOU for sharing the above. You are a great addition to LF.
Skylar, just because you know how a single breed of dog behaves doesn’t make you an expert in ALL “Canines,”–wolves are a bit different. Still CANINES but have different behavioral norms.
I think that is what gets us trapped into thinking we know more than we do, and feeling safer than we really are. I’ve been there and done that, and who knows may STILL Be doing it to some extent or other. But I am recognizing now that “canines” takes in not only tiny and non aggressive dogs, but also wolves and aggressive pit bull dogs, they are ALL CANINES but very different, and different degrees of DANGER from them.
Psychopaths are kind of the same way—all are “canines” but some are apparently more friendly “beagles” and some are “wolves” and yet, they all LOOK IDENTICAL, only the actions are a bit different, but nothing we can dress them up in (manners or money or status) keeps them from being psychopaths or gives them a conscience or empathy for their victims. Some of them enjoy hunting and killing, and the thrill of the chase, and others seem to like to lie by the fire and calmly gnaw a bone that they don’t have to work for, but they are all still canines. They are what they are, but just a bit different breeds of the same species.
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hens says:
Dear Tobehappy – Your above post @12:48pm could of been written by me, word for word. The f–ked up mother, old beliefs from a disturbing childhood full of abuse.
This site also changed my life. I doubt I will ever have all the answer’s but I have found more peace with-in myself than ever and I am 56. I also have rearranged my neuron’s the best I can. I used to call that subconscience noise in my head Kfuck 102. It never stops it seem’s but at least I have been able to turn down the volume and tune out some guilt and shame that never was mine to begin with…As for the Xspath BF, well he may have been the straw that almost broke the camel’s back and forced me to look at myself and make some changes or die….I wont thank the POS for it tho….thanks so much for your wisdom and humor, honest people like you are what makes LF so great…
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tobehappy says:
You are so welcome, Hens…
I just feel that life is too short to waste on repeating my old patterns. I knew that if “I” didn’t change ….then I was doomed to repeat the same experience again. I even told my attorney on the way out of court …after the divorce from my xhusb…”Put me in a room full of men, and I will be drawn right to Scott Peterson.” That was nine years ago. I didn’t date for 5 yrs after the divorce…afraid that I would only be attracted to a “bad boy” again. I was addicted to the charmers, conartists, liars. I have had relationships with more than just two. I was 22 yrs old and involved with a true sociopath….never knew what he was…I called him a “conartist” back then. He was textbook…now also in Florida hiding from paying child support as my xhusb is!!!
I was sobbing so hard when I hit rock bottom on Feb. 27, last year …I still remember the date! Funny, but I conceived my first child on that day, in 1994! Ironic.
It was actually the day that I was REBORN. I say that because I hit rock bottom and from that day on…I worked on changing myself….to be who I really am..not who I was programmed to be.
I was told that I was “no good, slob, ugly, stupid, worthless”…exact words from my socio mom…over and over. Even after I had my 3 children, right before she passed away, she told me how incompetent I was as a mother…and ignorant, and she told my xhusb that he needed to find a new wife and mother for our children! She was mentally ill.
So, I remained single ….took care of my girls…enjoyed raising them…and I thought I was “healed” when the xbf targetted me. He called me an “angel”….but he was “afraid” of me…and often told me that I was “too good for him”.
Yes, I am an angel. I am good to everyone. I feel sorry for everyone and try to help anyone that needs it. And,” the closer you get to “God”…(or being “godlike”), the more the “devil” tries to steal your soul” …(my aunts favorite quote). Makes sense to me.
I never wanted to believe that there were “evil” people roaming our earth. But, clearly, there are many “sick” people and I am now training my girls how to identify them and how to be strong and stick with people who treat you right.
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Not-too-late says:
Aussie, you’re the first person I’ve come across like me, thinking that ex was BPD. But he didn’t have addiction to substances. I too thought that he felt abandoned easily but now I think that he just felt entitled to have me all the time. And yes he was addicted to power over us and didn’t like the withdrawal of narcissistic supply. So he has been in depression for the past year or so. And that black and white thinking is not just a symptom of BPD, but of the disturbed character as well (see Dr George Simon’s pages on thinking errors in counsellingresources.com).
In any case, personality disorders just compound the domestic violence. Hard enough to change justified thinking, but add to it personality disorders and you have such a complex thing to deal with. No thanks!
No, LL, I have no intention of going back! Property settled, now just have to settle kids issues. Then I have to force the issue of him taking his things out so the place can actually start to look and feel different.
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geminigirl says:
Ive ben reading and re-reading ll your comments about leaving the sick Psychos in your lives. In my case it was my adult children. My grown daughters, now 45 and almost 47. I put up with almost 30 years of mental, and emotional abuse, gaslighting, physical violence from one of them, destruction of my home and art studio and paintings,conning me out of huge sums of money,lies,stealing,incredibly hurttful things like never once being allowe d to see my 2nd daughters 3 kids,being spoken to with patronage, sneering,sarcasm,swearing, lies,shouting,in othe r words, emotional torture and abuse. And thru all this I believer the lie that you “Forgive everything, do everything for your kids, never give up on them, love them both unconditionally.” Well, Ive changed. havent seen the 2nd one in 18 years,{her wish} havent seen the other one for 2 years.Total NC with both of them. I no longer believe there is good in everyone. I no longer believe in unconditional love.
I dont believe their problems are my fault.I have forgiven them, but will never forget the torture they have made me endure, me whose only desire was to love and help them. Do I still love them? I fel very little love for them now, they have killed most of it. Getting free of these sick biatches has indeed been like a coyote gnawing its leg off to get out ofa cruel trap. They dont deserve a Mum like me.Im a good person. I did the best I could.I am free from them, but I still have to work daily to stop thinking about them.They are on their own now.
Love, mama gemXX
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Not-too-late says:
Wow, sorry about that mama gem. I am afraid for my eldest, now 19. I am so relieved she is away now, but due to return soon. I may ask her to leave home if she doesn’t show respect for me now that ex has gone. She shows contempt for me and others very easily. My second one is not like that but strangely admires her older sister and is quite close to her. On the one hand, I want to support my oldest, esp because she suffered a lot in childhood. She doesn’t like victim status and comes across cool and confident, very passive aggressive. I hope I find a flicker of empathy when I see her. Her boyfriend broke up with her and she sent him all his letters back.
I don’t know whether she simply has a wall to protect her broken insides, or whether she chooses to be dismissive and disrespectful. I guess time will tell – I don’t want to presume anything. But I will not be naive, having read about Oxy’s and your story. If I have to eventually go NC with her, I will. And not feel guilty about it. Not my problem.
I am your grown daughter’s age and I feel for you. I love my parents and can’t believe that they could do that to you, but some people just enjoy exploiting others. Sick, but true. You tried your best. You cannot live their lives for them. If that’s what they choose, it’s your choice not to have anything to do with it.
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ConnedInCharlotte says:
Oh goodness, this post really hit home with me.
I knew The Perp had a few screws loose as we were dating, but I felt like if I was kind enough, he would change. I’d catch him texting other women or chatting online, and I would approach him and eventually forgive him. I tried church and praying for him.
He seemed to have lots of past issues–abusive childhood, cancer diagnoses, a former girlfriend he couldn’t get over… and I thought that with enough love and kindness, he would learn to treat me the way I should be treated.
This was the WORST reasoning possible. I’ve now learned that the s-paths don’t feel compassion. In fact, they feel entitled. So when I forgave him for sneaking around… he didn’t feel guilty. He felt it was owed to him. Thinking about that just makes me want to explode in rage.
I tried to change him, by God, and sometimes, I still think that I could. Sometimes, when I am beating myself up over things, I get stupid thoughts in my head like “if I were a better woman, he would have changed for me” or I wonder about the woman that he’ll come across in the future that will change him.
But then I read these replies and realize… it wasn’t that I did anything wrong. And NO woman will change this man. They’ll just fall for the lies and deciet just like I did.
Thanks, all, for the sage words of advice for someone who really needs it!
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DUPED NO MORE! says:
(((ConnedInCharlotte)))
You are starting to see things now….
I am sorry this has happened to your life and your world.
I had all the same feelings as you: “If I just love him enough, he will change…” But it doesn’t work like that. Instead of ‘growing’ from our love and affections, they just suck them dry until there isn’t anything left.
Tame the rage. Rage will only lead you down another horrid path. The only possible justification is no contact and ceasing all participation with this individual. THEN the ‘roadshow’ stops.
Don’t beat yourself up kiddo…
They aren’t worth it.
Leopards don’t change their spots.
Hang in there…we are here for you..
*Blessings*
Remember your value and your worth…
Dupey
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Ox Drover says:
Charlotte,
It is a long road to heal post-psychopath, because it starts out learning about what THEY ARE, and then as you progress and start learning about them, it eventually comes to a part that is learning about YOURSELF. Why did you allow the abuse? Why did you continue to “forgive” him lying, cheating, etc. Not that you are to blame, not saying that at all. But WHY did you stay when he was being abusive? So that it will never happen to you again, this self awareness is very important.
The journey to healing contains many aspects and they are physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual…because the psychopath has effected every aspect of our selves. We grieve for the person we loved, but find out that we only thought they were that person when in fact, they were nothing but a FAKE.
Learning the signs and symptoms of psychopathy is important, but learning to set boundaries for ourselves, that is also important and necessary to our healing! God bless and again, welcome to LoveFraud.
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callmeathena says:
TOBEHAPPY
Hey, totally great post, above, at 12:48. I too have been saved by the great peeps at LF. I was suicidal. I met my spath in 2008, I’ve been here, on and off, from 2009 forward, and I am so damn grateful. I could never do enough to repay Donna and Ox and Sky and everybody else.
Group hug anybody?
Athena
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tobehappy says:
Callmeathena….
I wrote from my heart. I have also been saved by LF!!!…As I stated in my post from way back then…lol…I was a mess! Had I not found LF…I don’t know where I would be today!!
I always tell my girls…since they were little…and “bad” things happenned to us (ie: breaking down on the parkway late at night…etc…)….
“Out of everything bad, comes something good!”
Funny thing…they remind me of that when I have my occasional meltdowns when something “bad” happens! lol!
Well, out of Donna’s devastating experience…SO much good has resulted! She took a “bad” experience and made it into a positive. She has saved lives!!! From one person’s pain and recovery…..countless lives have been saved. By saving MY life….she saved my 3 children’s lives….and everyone who loves me!
How do you repay someone for saving your life…your soul???
I don’t know. I just “pay it forward” by finding time to help others on here!
Thank you, Callmeathena….for appreciating my post. So glad I could help others. We all support each other here and thats what makes this place so wonderful and enlightening.
HUGS, 2b
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one/joy_step_at_a_time says:
happy new year Kim, 2be and LL – good to read you all. peace, health and prosperity in 2012!
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