Divorce, custody and personality disorders
PDF Lovefraud frequently receives e-mails and phone calls from people who are divorcing a sociopath and are afraid they’re going to get trashed in court. They know the sociopaths will lie—smoothly and convincingly—and are terrified that the manipulator will end up winning the money, the house, and custody of the kids.
If you’re facing family court battles with a sociopath, I recommend that you buy and read Splitting—Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist, by William A. Eddy. It may be the best $25 you ever spend.
Eddy, the author, is both a therapist (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) and an attorney. He understands the law, the courts and how people with personality disorders can manipulate them. You need to understand all of this as well.
The book explains the court process; the roles of attorneys, evaluators and other professionals; how to gather evidence; and generally what to expect.
Tactics and strategies
As the subtitle suggests, Splitting refers to people with borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, whom Eddy calls “persuasive blamers.” References to sociopaths are limited. Still, the tactics and strategies he suggests would be helpful in dealing with a sociopath as well.
One of Eddy’s main points is that you must be assertive right from the beginning of your case. The blamer may accuse you of infidelity, mental instability, child abuse or sexual misconduct—accusations which the court will take seriously. You must be prepared to respond to the accusations immediately. Once the court issues judgments and rulings—even if they are based on lies—it is very difficult to get them undone later.
Eddy discusses the importance of documentation, and how it can bolster your case. In fact, the book includes an interview with a man who aggressively gathered documentation to prove his wife’s pattern of behavior to the court evaluator. Four former husbands gave statements indicating that she had done the same things to them that she was doing to him.
Should you mention the disorder?
Eddy also has a chapter devoted to whether or not you should have an expert testify about the personality disorder. He recognizes the dilemma:
If you are too aggressive about raising this subject, the judge may be angry with you for seeming to attack someone’s personality.
Yet if the judge does not fully understand the personality dynamics beneath the surface, the court may misunderstand your case and get it backwards.
From my experience and the input of others, it appears best to gently present this information to the court, but not rely on it being accepted.
Eddy then outlines ways in which psychological information may be presented, and how it may affect the outcome of the case, even if it is not explicit in court rulings.
Splitting is available online from BPDCentral.com. If you’re going to family court against a sociopath, read this book.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
silvermoon says:
In Va
serving anulment
had to get permission from USMS to serve him in regional jail and it has been SITTING with no explanation for 3 weeks.
don’t understand!
Don’t know who to call because the attorney did his part- why would clerks/sheriffs not just get job done?
Am thinking about going to my congressman to ask why the USMS would block the service- that’s the only reason I can think of?
Thoughts?
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
What I found out was serving someone in Jail (especially an out of state case) is problematic with different ‘juristictions’ or agency’s….
I’d contact the warden or (whoever is in charge at jail) AND the Marshalls, EVERY DAY, until you get a return receipt of service….
And MAKE SURE your attorney knows you wish to be notified IMMEDIATELY upon service.
Why were the marshals involved? Just for service….they dont have anything to do with the jail do they?
I was lucky to have my business Spath served in Jail in another state…..and found there are lots’ of service issues when someone is in jail…
Become the pig they want to shut up….
Get certified copies of the service docs….so you can do this yourself…..the groundwork….and if you need to contact the politicians….it’ll cost you less to do the groundwork.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
I just found out the problem- they moved him out of state and I bet the people here don’t even know it.
Boy am I pissed!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Can you do an inmate search…..
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
yeah I did. Thats how I found him…..
he’s in an FCI now a few hundred miles away in another state.
No wonder this is dragging.
that *.*ing attny – I am so angry I could spit nails cuz if he knew he didn’t tell and I bet he doesn’t even know because he’s busy chasing ambulances.
Its not right but its done and now I have to find out what to do about it.
(Report abusive comment)
pollyannanomore says:
Some points to think about
1) Use the assistant wherre possible – they know about your case and are cheaper
2) Only go into the office when you need to discuss something or sign papers
3) Make use of email and phone calls to stay informed of what is happening – appointments are more expensive
4) The lawyer is a hired gun – you are paying them for their expertise like any other professional – so don’t be intimidated. They can give you advice but at the end of the day as the client they need to carry out your wishes
Totally agree with others who highlight knowing the process and documenting everything – this saves you money and makes life much less stressful.
Remember Ps always make a few fatal errors – if you can find proof of them you will be in clover!
Good luck to everyone fighting against one of these monsters – it does eventually come to conclusion but you need the patience of a saint to see that day!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
contact the jail yourself and ask them their protocal to have their new inmate served.
Id’ do it myself, if you can.
This is what we preach….follow up….cuz shiat like this happens ALL THE TIME!!! And WE are the ones left hanging….
You will take care of it….your a spath bulldozer!!!
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
I told him over and over thatTIME IS OF THE ESSENCE in this case and he poo pooed me.
Well, now I am going to tell him that the cost of service in a Federal country club is on him for waiting and stalling and bing uninformed and see if that flies.
I did follow up and they gave me the business, Now, its going to cost a fortune! And take months. And ruin my plans . I handed him the case all he had to do was serve it.
today has been the worst day of my life. good news?
it doesn’t get worse than this?
LOL!
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
No….don’t go down that bleek, bleek road…..
It shouldn’t be a biggie….just figure out WHAT needs to be done/requirments and geterdone YOURSELF.
Find a service co…..OR JUST Fed ex it to the new jail….with your counties proof of service forms to be sent back to you.
Don’t get discouraged…..and If you can NAIL this attorney….NAIL him….it’s typical attorney behavior…..
(HEY….and just an FYI……I said that for years….and each time I said it …..something knew got added to the ‘buffet’….so DON”T EVER SAY THAT…cuz life may just prove you wrong…)
It’s doable….YOU KNOW THIS….
Just a little setback! At least you KNOW ABOUT IT!!!
Keep your head up….and PLOW FORWARD!!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Its a solveable problem.
yes, I will get the attny’s head on a platter.
By the time my family gets done, Mosby’s Ghost will be stealing his punch lines! This isn’t funny.
It isn’t ok either.
(Report abusive comment)
geminigirl says:
Silvermoon, sweetheart, just want to give you a hug, a Hi 5, and a stiff scotch! All at once. you can do this gal!
Just remember, THIS TOO SHALL PASS> And when its a ll over you still have an intact soul a brilliant mind, and a great wit, to name just 3 of your attributes.! The spath, on th other hand, will NEVER have a soul,is doomed for Dantes seventh circle of Hades.{Or rather Inferno in Latin!} hang tough girl!
Praying for you!
Hows the cyber scotch? Single malt OK with you?
Love, and {{HUGS!!}}, Mama gem.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(Report abusive comment)
Quantum Solace says:
Too bad this advice came about 13 years too late for me and my children. If I’d only known then what I know now, things would have worked out much, much different than they did.
(Report abusive comment)
Buttons says:
Silvermoon, you’re doing the best that you can and, at the very least, managing legal issues with a spath is one of the most difficult challenges that we have to face.
You are “allowed” to feel anger, rage, and all of the rest. But, it’s important to remember that there’s a fine line between acknowledging the frustration and getting sucked further down into that emotional cesspool that the spath has created.
A very, very good suggestion above was to use that angry energy to your advantage! Anger is a very powerful energy and a lot can get accomplished by focusing on one task at a time. I used to have to write out a list of tasks that needed attention, and work through each one, individually.
With regard to your attorney, HE/SHE is on your payroll and you have the option of firing him/her and hiring another attorney who is familiar with sociopathic behavior. The suggestions made were very sound and they will not only help in cutting the attorney fees, but provide you with tasks to accomplish. Draining our resources is one of the worst aspects of legal proceedings. I lost both of my sons to my ex because I simply ran out of resources, and the legal system isn’t interested in the flaming hoops that we are forced to jump through.
As geminigirl aptly stated, this too shall pass. Right now, this whole situation seems so overwhelming that it’s just too much to bear. If you have to say it aloud, remember that this is just temporary. Keep posting, keep venting, and use that angry energy to your advantage. Don’t be afraid to be assertive – “assertiveness” isn’t the same a bullying. And, don’t be afraid to tell your attorney that you want a comlpete inventory of his/her services to date, along with the accompnaying fees.
You’re in my positive thoughts and prayers, silvermoon. Remember, the best revenge is to live a happy, productive life – something that the spath will never, ever experience.
Brightest blessings.
(Report abusive comment)
Harmonyman says:
Hey LF,major difficulties with soon to S she is bringing out all the bad things ,she has overwhelmed me with paper for the courts …saying things that r not true ,asking about evrything, she knows about some of my skeletons in the closet!! so she is bringing these things out …my attorney blasted back..just got more shit back, she is relentless,persistant and is hell bent bound and determined to crush me anyway she can… it seems to be working ..really has me alomost shutting down..I MUST KEEP fighting…there is so much more to say..tuff day yesterday..went to a friends funeral/memorial when i signed the book it hit hard ..I just put my name..really tuff..it was a realization that she was not there and that seemed to hurt and upset me left there had to pull over and balled like a baby!!!Each time we go back with something to her attorney, they come back with more paperwork an she knows what this is doing to me…I am not a good records keeper..she has everything ..the first check she wrote after we got married…need answers ..please help!
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
Hman,
Your attorney has the right to ask her for every scrap of paper or record there is as process of discovery. You have to go through it with fine tooth comb but they can ask for everything. Sounds like you have an active discovery process.
Skeletons in the closet? Better make sure your attorney knows them ALL before hers finds them.
Best defense if offense. Get legal advice from a good attny and FOLLOW IT.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
HMan:
Okay dear…..I’m gonna be tough…..
DIVORCE IS NEVER EASY……and tactics involved are harsh…..and we exploit our former partners in the process…..
DIVORCE IS WAR…….you don’t hold the ‘enemy’s’ hand during war, you don’t offer bandaids……you BLAST away….for keeps!
I’m a bit surprised your so low….at this stage in the game….
and if your gonna make it though……your gonna have to pick up your balls and separate your emotions OUT OF THE PROCESS!
Your gonna have to learn to be organized and NOT let anything get to ya.
She’s trying to break you……
Everything she ‘knows’ about you…….CHANGE…..become good at paperwork…LEARN how to organize and file….by the schoool of hard knocks….LEARN IT, DO IT, and chaulk it off your list of ‘bothers’ or Im not good at’s…..cuz there is a lot in life you may not be good at……BUT YOUR SINGLE NOW….and YOUR GONNA HAVE TO DO THINGS FOR YOURSELF!!!!!
This is very empowering.
I think this
attitude your sharing is the same one which may have lead you to this ‘place’.
If I recall, you were not single long after your wifes passing……
I think you look to be rescued……
It didn’t work for you, and I highly suggest……you reevalueate your romanticized thinking, spend time learning aobut YOU and learn to take care of YOURSELF and your own emotions……
You can’t look at everything in a ‘romantic’ nostalgic manner……because if signing a memorial guestbook’s gonna getcha…….dude….your in for a long mind game here……
She knows your weaknesses…..she’s gonna exploit every single one of them…….MAKE THEM A FORMER WEAKNESS and prepare for the war!!!!
If your in discovery……you have only just begun. DOn’t wait for it, the requests to come it……send it all. Be proactive.
Change your approach.
Yes…..Skeletons……I suggest you have a long chat and reveal ALL of them to your attorney…..
You pay your attorney to spin….and if he doesn’t know what to spin…..he can’t spin.
This is hard because your gonna have to admit them ‘out loud’…….
Your attorney won’t judge you……he’ll give you advice and deal with any of it as it comes up.
I will tell you my ex kept it all a secret…….and his attornies fired him, then the last one was made a fool of in court.
A FOOL……and this hindered his case 100%.
#1~ You MUST be honest with your attorney…..if you think it’ll come up…..disclose it to attorney!!!!!!!
Good luck…..YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!
XXOO
EB
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Dear Harmony man,
Sorry things are going to be really nasty, but that is the way it goes with a psychopath.
Now, I agree with ErinB, whatever your skeletons in the closet, from robbing a bank to messing around, TELL your attorney.
Then, tell him to quit being a pussy and GO ON THE ATTACK, there is nothing to win by just being defensive. I am sure she must ahve some skelletons in the closet too.
First off, you married this woman straight after your late wife died….have your attorney use that as an “excuse” of why she was able to take advantage of the poor heartbroken bloke. less than a year after my husband died I got involved with a psychopath looking for a “respectable” wife to keep his harem off his back.. His previous wife had finally caught him, and kicked him out, now all his GFs wanted to get married so he was in a rush to get married to me, so he could keep the “tramps” content with just the affairs. I had been so lonely and needy I just opened the door and let him into my heart. Fortunately he couldn’t stop cheating untiil he got me married, and I found out what he was doing. It broke my heart for months. Thank God I didn’t also have to divorce him.
Now put your big-boy boots on and get out there and stomp her butt! GO GET’ER COWBOY!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
flowerpower says:
Hman…I agree with above posts. You are romanticizing pain.
Pony up with the attorney. You are in for the fight of your life. She will play it all dirty and you best be prepared.
No crying, you are NOT a victim but she will stomp you if you keep thinking you are. Get angry or whatever it takes to fight.Secrets are toxic and she will use them to poison you.
(Report abusive comment)
silvermoon says:
His previous wife had finally caught him, and kicked him out, now all his GFs wanted to get married so he was in a rush to get married to me, so he could keep the “tramps” content with just the affairs. I had been so lonely and needy I just opened the door and let him into my heart. Fortunately he couldn’t stop cheating untiil he got me married, and I found out what he was doing. It broke my heart for months. Thank God I didn’t also have to divorce him
Well Hell OX, I KNOW THAT STORY TOO! WoW! Only difference is I didn’t find out until after we Married. Fortunately, he forgot to get divorced in his hurry!
(Report abusive comment)
OxDrover says:
Silver, well at least eventually your “marriage” will be null and VOID. I think at that critical point if I had been married to him I can’t imagine what it would have done to me emotionally., It hurt bad enough as it was!
But I’m rid of him and didn’t step into that BEAR TRAP and have to chew my leg off to get out!
Harmony Man, the tears for your friend are natural sadness, but Flower is right, you need to get ROARING MAD and activate your FIGHT sense! Don’t get so mad it blinds you to the truth, but DO GET ANGRY enough to DEFEND yourself with an aggressive stance. Good luck!
(Report abusive comment)
flowerpower says:
PLEASE! Need advice on what to say at informal meetings to upcoming judicial candidates..reference books, articles,… to educate them to these types! How to speak intelligently for them to understand..we now have 2 public examples in the news ..others?
(Report abusive comment)
myboysmattermost says:
Two weeks ago, being counter sued for divorce for cruelty…pulled out all the stops. Don’t hear from him at all and then on Saturday morning, message from his mother that I am sick and a demon…yesterday he emails begging me back…no apologies, no regrets…WE have to work on this and despite it all HE STILL loves me…geesh…today, the love bomb starts….he misses me, loves me, needs me back, has to see me, hear me, touch me…WTF????
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
myboys – well, they are twisted little @#$%^& aren’t they?!
hmmm, now what exactly could he be after?? for you to stop the divorce proceedings? for you to ask for less, back down because he is SOOOOO in love with you? or did his mamma kick him out?
(I did email Donna asking to forward my email to you, but haven’t heard anything.)
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
Flower – have you emailed Donna and asked for a list of resources? She must have one that she uses when speaking.
(Report abusive comment)
myboysmattermost says:
one_step…I sent you an email about 10 minutes ago.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
myboys – Will send someting by the end of the week. ty. I have a megablast virus at home and I am offline until there is a patch for the darned thing. I have been coming to the library to catch up on email and lf.
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
Hi, One-step? How’s it shaking?
(Report abusive comment)
myboysmattermost says:
Great no problem. Sorry to hear about the virus, that is a pain!!
As for the stbx- I feel like he is wanting me to “rescue” him yet again…
“You are still my wife. Lets talk about doing things right this time. For the sake of our family please This is not where we were meant to be at this point in our lives. We need each other more than ever…”
Well, I don’t need him and I am proving that to myself every day! I do think this is where I am meant to be and he has been gone for five months! If I let him back, he would just be the same in five months (if it takes that long).
He has IRS problems, he is unemployed, house going into foreclosure, tons of stuff I am dealing with and I want to deal with him again too…?? He went to counseling ONCE – one time…one time fixes NOTHING!!
And my boys have made it clear they like it better without him. And what would he do with his mom?? Feed her to the alligators? I certainly do not want her back in my life for any reason at any time. I am even petitioning the courts to have her stay far away from my boys.
I am sure he is telling his mom one thing and me another, and he is willing to just dump his mom or would that be a problem down the road too…no doubt!!
I am still his wife, but not by my choice. My divorce was supposed to be final last Monday until he swooped in.
He sent the 1st email once last night and three more times this morning and then the second. I have a feeling if I continue to ignore them, the nastiness will return.
Plus he told his lawyer he has no interest in visitation with the boys yet now he loves us all so much?????
I am proceeding with the divorce…he can come back in three or four years and prove he is healthy and has really changed and grown and then compete with my new beaus for my affections!! I am not taking that chance again.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
myboys – can you block his email address? unless you need to collect his email for court purposes, I’d block his email address.
I changed eveything but my phone number (it was a business line also), but i blocked unnamed calls and both her numbers.
i have been practising my ‘hang up’ buttom push, in case she ever gets through to me. also a profanity or two.
(Report abusive comment)
one_step_at_a_time says:
KIM! well, still without computer
but i got some money from welfare, so maybe i can get it fixed now. i have been trying to kick the damn virus, but it keeps mutating – everytime i go online to update my THREE virus protection programs it loads more crap I can’t kick. i think it has a keylogger, also, so i am afraid to type webiste url’s or passwords in. making things a bit complicated.
making some progress on a few things. have been getting up early in the morn and getting soem writing done, both work search and personal, and enjoying the quiet of the birds.
lots of pain in my body, and it’s makin me a bit crazy. but got shoes today so hopefully that will help with some of the knee pain. thankfully i have a good cache of pain killers. i would really like to get soem body work done, but can’t afford it. it would help so much. I did get some money from wlefare and friends brought some veggies, so i am okay for the moment. and that is great.
the computer says i have 13 minutes left. it may be lying.
(Report abusive comment)
kim frederick says:
You sound so good, lately…I’m so glad. Glad also that help has been forthcoming. It helps us to begin to reaffirm our faith…..in something.
I don’t blindly trust anymore….especially computers…they have to earn my trust….I think you’re right, it MAY be lying.
(Report abusive comment)
ErinBrock says:
Flower and others:
Here is a copy of my letter I sent to all judges/candidates running in the last election.
I got a very positive response and was able to speak to ALL the candidates at length, either in person or on the telephone.
GOOD LUCK!!!!
Dear Judge X/Candidate X,
As far as your judicial and legal experience, I would like to ask a few questions of you.
I know it may not be a common question about a common topic, but I so want the awareness to be in the courtroom and you have the forum to educate others in the field.
I would gladly place my confidence in you with my vote. First, I need to be assured that YOU ‘Get it’.
There are thousands of victims that pass through the courtroom that need help. It is important you are aware of Cluster B personality disorders and able to recognize the behaviors involved.
I am finding that most professionals in the legal field have no idea how to proceed with personality disorders, I/e narcissistic and sociopathic, borderline disorders.
Cases are looked at as black and white, and these personalities are not black and white; to deal with them as such, only confirm the behaviors and victimizes families further.
These people have no conscience. They have no ability to tell the truth. They are not blessed with empathy or compassion. They have no issues breaking the law, they live with entitlement, and they lie to you directly in the courtroom. They are masters at projecting their behaviors onto the victims. They ‘muddy’ waters, complicate issues to confuse people, this is the design. This is called ‘splitting’.
Consequently to the judge, the accusations seem like they go both directions and judges shut down and punish both parties. This reality is helpful to the Cluster B person, and again harmful to the victim. The Cluster B’s are masters at portraying themselves as victims. Further more, Cluster B’s do not seek professional counseling, due to the fact that they will 100% of the time blame others for their behaviors. They are rarely diagnosed. Typically, they only enter counseling when threatened with the loss of ‘supply’ or legally ordered to attend. The loss of a marriage, job, family…. we are only ‘supply’ to Cluster B. They may attend 3 counseling sessions, under duress, and will not address any issues, because…..remember THEY do not have a problem. It’s US (everyone else).
So ordering the Cluster B’s to counseling is worthless.
A Cluster B disordered person will do and has done anything to destroy lives. They use all they have, money, children, assets and extended family etc… They have the mindset of; If I can’t have it, either can you. They will outspend the victim, because typically they have depleted everything the victim had access to, prior to coming to your courtroom. The victim has no way to respond to endless motions etc… They know this. They drained the accounts; they isolated and drained the victims.
Cluster B disordered persons are not authentic in any way. They live a masquerade, they are polished actors, although outwardly they are mostly productive members of society. Please do not expect them to ‘rise to the occasion’, just because you made a ruling. They do not respect authority, sometimes they are drawn to it, but not in this forum.
Cluster B’s break the law continually, most are drug or alcohol dependant. They live secret/double lives. They will not follow your orders.
At very least, if you make the harsh ruling, it gives the victims the legal avenue to protect themselves, their children and assets to start rebuilding their lives.
The public has the perception that Narcissists, Sociopaths/Psychopaths are all like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy type, dirty looking serial killers….. but do you remember Darrin Mack, Scott Peterson….. these men fit nicely into society, nice looking, good jobs, the appearance of good parenting, strong familial relations. Both were men most people would invite to dinner and have a glass of wine with.
Men such as these two come into the courtroom daily, they have family, friends, bosses bamboozled. They were protected and defended, but yet they are both exhibit classic disordered behaviors. How would you have handled these men, now looking back? If you were the judge, would you make changes in rulings, now that you are aware of the behaviors?
The victim and they’re attorney can deal with the Cluster B’s a specific way in court so as to ‘bring out’ the personalities so the judge can see the behaviors in a short period during a hearing, assuming the victims attorney ‘get’s it’ (I am finding they too look at it all as black and white).
My question to you is~ what do YOU do when you see this type of behavior in YOUR courtroom?
The courtroom is another forum for these people to continue to abuse their victims and get away with it. When judges are bamboozled by these behaviors, it only confirms the behaviors and it ups the ante for the perpetrator. It heightens the abuse and offers another forum to abuse with. I understand you must act within the confines of the law, yet there are things you can do to help these victims.
*First, clarity in your orders. Specific to a ‘T’ orders. When orders are violated and the victims come back in to court, and get assigned another judge, there is no question of intent. Punishment may be handed down, as specified by you in the original hearing.
*Please do not give them chances. This is the loophole in life they use to continue to victimize; it confirms the behaviors are ‘not that bad’. It is human nature to want to give chances…..Cluster B’s use chances as just another opportunity to exploit the system and their victims.
*Please listen closely to the contradictions and lies. They all have meaning. As a judge, you must know that if someone lies, there is something being hidden. That’s the part that is black and white. You tire of the lies, but please do something about it, let them reflect strongly in your rulings.
*Remember, they are not capable of telling the truth. The attorney representing them goes to bat on ‘their’ orders, their lies. Cluster B’s love this idea; they have someone lying on their behalf. By their attorney continuing their ‘story’….it offers ‘supply’ to them and confirms their behaviors.
*If you recognize a Cluster B personality disordered person, Please speak more directly to the parties in the courtroom. Don’t let the disordered hide behind the attorney. If you ask the parties a few ‘key’ direct questions, you will certainly be confirmed of the behaviors from the Cluster B.
*If they don’t answer your questions directly ……spot it. This will be an attempt to ‘muddy’ the waters. Please call them out on it. A Cluster B will try to run your courtroom.
I don’t mean to sound condescending, you are a highly educated and experienced person. If you have not lived with a person of this sort, you will not understand the devastation and avenues a Cluster B uses to abuse.
I never understood the bazaar behaviors myself…..until one day I woke up and it hit me like a ton of bricks. A Dr. brought this to my attention, and then I researched Cluster B personality disorders.
The decades of abuse, lies, manipulations, projections, splitting and deceit. It became clear, they do not experience love and feelings like ‘normal’ humans experience….they have motives. We are all a ‘means’ or ‘avenue’ for the disordered. They do not think or act like ‘normal’ persons. Yet, we stay in these relationships, we try to protect our kids, we do not understand. We think we are crazy (as they tell us), we try to change, we seek help, we think it’s us, we spend years trying to make it good, change approaches, appearances etc….nothing is good enough. We will never be able to make it ‘better’. They continue to abuse.
I understand, you have limited time in the courtroom, the dockets are full. You are not psychologists, But, these behaviors are really not hard to spot, IF you’re looking. You see them daily from the bench. You can move it along by shutting this person down on the first go around. No chances. Let them know by your rulings that they are not fooling anyone. You will not change their behaviors, but you will not confirm them and victimize the victim further.
Recognize these behaviors, be tough, stand firm with your words to the Cluster B and follow thru by your rulings. You have the ability to change lives for the victims of these persons.
It is very important that Judges recognize these behaviors.
It is important that Judges and attorneys are not only schooled in Law, but awareness of psychological behaviors that you see daily. Awareness is key.
You have the ability, as a judge to save the courts time and the taxpayers’ dollars by recognizing these behaviors early on, and not allowing the courts to be bogged down by these people and the behaviors. Once you have the evidence of the behaviors, you have the ability to stop the insanity.
How do you handle people in your courtroom who exhibit these Disorder’s?
How do you, within the confines of your position, stop the victimization to protect the victims?
What education do you have to recognize these issues? Are you willing to receive further knowledge on these disorders and how they affect your time on the bench and the parties in your courtroom?
There are ways you can make a difference. I urge you to seek information on Cluster B personality disorders and how this affects your daily work.
I would like to hear from you specifically addressing these issues in YOUR courtroom, and your approach, and how you feel you could do more to educate yourself to help the community, seriously affected by these issues in the courts and save the taxpayers’ money.
I appreciate your efforts and time, making XX County a better place to live.
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
X
**Various signs of Cluster B personality disorders~
• Can not take perspective; hence situations are blown out of proportion
• No empathy.
• Preoccupied with her/his personal distress
• Cannot accept authority and hence has little concern for morals or the law
• Will try to be seen as superior
• Lies, cheats and steals
• Hypersensitive, cannot accept any form of critique
• Exploitative, vain and not self-sufficient
• Amoral/conscienceless
• Care only about appearances
• Contemptuous
• Cruel
• Envious and competitive
• Feel entitled
• Grandiose
• Passive-aggressive
• Secretive
• Self contradictory
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OxDrover says:
Dear ErinB,
The only thing I see “wrong’ with your letter is that it is longer than 10 words and unfortunately, lawyers and other judges seem to want the Reader’s Digest Condensed version of the problems. Can’t maybe you lop it down to 10 ords or less? lol
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ErinBrock says:
Yes….it’s long….
But in order to have a conversation with a ‘voter’…..they are forced to read it…..
To know what I was saying…..
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shabbychic says:
EB, the letter and the fact that you spoke with all the candidates are both very impressive. I am in awe of your strength and the time you took to prepare this letter and to prepare yourself for the conversations you had with the candidates. Bravo! You are fabulous!
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shabbychic says:
Henry & Oxy, I have been reading some of your posts
that I copied and pasted to my journal last year,
and you are both fabulous too!
You guys are right on.
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ErinBrock says:
CHIC:
Thanks!
I wrote it two years ago….after I received a flyer on my door from a judicial candidate.
I was heading to court in a few weeks and I had an AHA moment….and frantically wrote this out…..
I SOOOOO wanted to reach the judiciary….and maybe even ‘my’ judge!
It was the first time in my life I gave the judiciary election any thought at all……
I got my responses and sent out emails to EVERYONE in my area with my picks…..and WHY.
I found others never took notice of who we elected onto the bench either….
Pretty eye opening…..
It kind of took on a mind of it’s on……which was cool.
So….thank you very much chic….for the kudos…..I DO want to ‘spread’ the word!
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henry says:
Shabby Chic i have no ideal what I said yesterday let alone a year ago. Sometimes I go back in the archives and find some of my old post and I am so embarrassed at what I said. I remember feeling so much the victim and blaming my past childhood drama for the reason I got involved with sociopaths.. I even thot I was co-dependent or love addicted, maybe a touch of cluster B with a dash of histrionic. But whatever I was I am not that person anymore. I used to believe what ever a person said to be the truth. I used to be a people pleaser and thot kindness and compassion was the only way I could be. I have taken off my blinders, I recognize exploiters and people with bad intentions or not so good motives. I cherish the people that are good in my life and walk away from the ones who are not. I have learned to avoid the bad and live in peace with myself and let go of the burdens of my past that can not be undone..
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conomo says:
I love you Henry…So do you make me feel excepted…I know you’re of the other persuasion…Fricking gay??? It’s a hard life whatever way you look at it…My best friend many many years ago was a self determined gay man…he was 16…and never been with a man…so what…I loved him…he loved me…we haven’t been in touch since…so what????life goes on…
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conomo says:
Ok…it’s ok…I am the lone poster..cuz … I am not sure…cuz I am the drinker and poster…when I feel able….I am workin on that toot…but I will testify to the havoc that the “whatever you want to call them” does to a life!!!! As I said ..I am lucky…
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shabbychic says:
henry, no, these were strong, powerful posts that were not necessarily directed at me, but spoke volumes to me. I have been reading all the posts I saved because since I saw the S a couple of weeks ago… many feelings that I thought were gone have barfed themselves back up. Ha ha… I said barfed.
I’m feeling weak and confused, so I am re-reading the journal I kept everyday I was seeing him, in addition to many posts I kept from LF. It’s sure a sad thing to see how much I wanted things to work out with him, I twisted myself into a pretzel. I can’t ever do that again with anyone, I have to be me, not what they want.
Love your “This is a life lesson, please don’t fail it” and also you wrote once that they are like a tick on our ass! That was a goodie!
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shabbychic says:
EB… yes, the letter is great, and I am shamed to admit that I never know who any of the judges are that are on the ballot. I wonder… since I live in such a large city… if they would even see (or bother with) a letter from me. I should try it anyway!
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ErinBrock says:
Yes…..they would ‘give you the time of day’…..during election process…..
They don’t know your NOT alone with your votes….they don’t know ‘who’ you are……
They want to get elected…..so they will listen……
Be a tick on their ass!
I sent out the letter via email….with my phone number asking them to contact me……I gave the ones I didn’t hearfrom a week…..then I called THEM!!!
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geminigirl says:
OXY! Ive posted a blog to you on the thread,”Are they just evil people?”
Its a bout the South African lady from Cape flats who killed her Tik addicted son.I managed to find a sentence about her in the “Cape Argus” newspaper,{online,} and from that, I found out about a book,{not available on Amazon} about this lady, and Ive ordered a copy .
Her name is Ellen Pakkies.
Can you find my blog, and get back to me?
Thanks,
Love, Gem.XX
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Harmonyman says:
Hey LF, I havent posted since EB busted my butt..we have steady been working towards a strategy we have pretty much gotten most or all of my financial things together that S and her camel jockey attorney.. ( her attorney was a member of 2 circuses as a camel handler and rider in Alska before comomg toour small town. just opend up her practice in jan 09 about a month before she was hired) )my attorney’s plan is to show that I am not worth what she thinks I am and that she could only get 1/2 of what Ive got.. which really is nothing to sneeze @. When I was weak. and dammit EB I didn’t want to be rescued.,I was rescuing her.. I was in such a disarray that I thought god had brought her to me and my 8 year old son..I tried to and tried to tell her so many times I didnt want to get married ..I could not stand my ground long enough her continual persistence finally beat me down.. I gave in …she prepared a prenuptial her self(remember she’s worked for attorneys for over 20 years) which somehow convinced me everything would be alright! oh well! btw my attorney has amotion im place about the prenup.. his argument is that by the wording in the prenup she gave away all her rights to everything except alimony.. before and after.. we havent heard anything yet ..they r taking me back to court thursday to try aand get more attorneys fees , money for depositons. ect.. I am already paying her 3000.00 a month.. I am trying to remain strong ,I am praying to God that something is going to bite her in the ass…where is karma. when you need it! thank you for all your help..LF
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OxDrover says:
Dear Harmony man,
Wow, you know I think I need to get married to you after you get out of this divorce, I promise I will be everything you want and mirror back to you anything you want me to say, and hey, I’ll settle for HALF WHAT SHE’S GETTING WHEN WE SEPARATE! Sorry—-the devil or EB’s sense of humor made me say that! I know it is NOT A JOKING MATTER! (hanging head in mock shame!)
Glad you are back here on LF though! Sigh, it won’t be easy though I can definitely tell you that. Even if she doesn’t get what she wants, she will do her best to destroy what you have rather than walk away and see you intact! That’s the down home truth, and it AIN’T PRETTY!
Take care and keep your head us and keep praying!!! (((Hugs))) and God bless.
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ErinBrock says:
Harmonyman:
I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings….I was calling it like I saw it…..Take me for what i’m worth….(and my worth depends on who ya talk to).
YOU SOUND STRONG!!! I LIKE, I LIKE!!!
GO GETEM DUDE!!!!
This is the strength and resolve you NEED to fight a spath, stand up for your rights and protect those you love from further harm…..
They don’t play nice…..DON”T YOU!!!
Big hugs and more hugs to ya…..
XXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOO
EB
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honestkindgiver says:
EB: they don’t play nice. Yes, NO kidding. Nasty nasty, worthless pieces of shat. We do need people to tell us to toughen up. We do need to keep getting up and dusting ourselves off. It’s reading this website that gives me strength. It gives me the courage to break the code of silence that they cast upon us. I kept his dirty little secrets. I told a friend of mine once that I loved being with other people and always wanted to socialize “because he’s nicer to me.” I don’t even remember saying it, but how farked up. Now I see it – he wanted the IMAGE of being a nice guy in public, but treated me like dirt in private.
Your letter to “the judge” is brilliant. I am getting myself a copy of it and gonna go work on my divorce.
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ErinBrock says:
Honestkindgiver;
I found it very helpful to my case and protecting my kids and I…….to find my inner spath and stand up and fight like a spath…..but with boundaries of not walking outside the law….
I went ‘covert’ and dug up all kinds of documentation…..(hence the ErinBrock name)…..I realized that I didn’t have to follow each court order to a ‘t’. But I stayed with the appearance of doing so. I placed the burdons back onto him, of which i carried for 28 years! Burdons to take me back to court etc….. I played with him legally. Just like a spath does.
I started out playing by the ‘rules’…..and was going down fast. BROKE……and out of credit to pull from. I stopped responding to his accusations and told my attorney I refused to address anything that he said…..unless he could show documentation of his accusation. (I knew I had done nothing wrong). I sat back and listened to his accusations and took notes….because….each one was a road map to what HE was doing….or planning! I used it all against him!
It’s important for us to ‘get involved’. And an easy way is during the elections……..we shouldn’t introduce ourselves as if we have a current case…..but as a voter and a voter only! Introduce the idea’s of what these judges encounter…..and plant the seeds of cluster B’s in the court…..have discussions and let the thoughts run in their minds……I have found…once the seeds are planted…..and we are sure they have ‘taken’……the nurturing is done by the recepient.
YOU be the nice guy in public…..and whatever you do behind closed doors…..WELL……in a case of dealing with a spath…..is up to YOU!
Good luck in your divorce! IT CAN BE DONE!!!!
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Hopeforjoy says:
Dear Honestkindgiver,
The court system seems to be skewed toward the spath but if I could give you any advice it would be to document, document, document.
Don’t overdo it when you talk about the ex, be rational and calm. Like Erin Brock said, plant the seeds, don’t be too obvious. If you have some psych tests that show his disorder, definately use those. You could request them too.
My soon to be ex spath was and is very sneaky and getting proof of his lies is very difficult. I have had to give more than I want to but I just want to be rid of him so either way I’m the winner because he’s out of my life!
Saw him yesterday to sign some things and he patted me on the back and said how nice it was to see me. I really get the willies when he touches me, I think the intuition is starting to work again. My hair actually stands up.
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