Divorce, custody and personality disorders
Lovefraud frequently receives e-mails and phone calls from people who are divorcing a sociopath and are afraid they’re going to get trashed in court. They know the sociopaths will lie—smoothly and convincingly—and are terrified that the manipulator will end up winning the money, the house, and custody of the kids.
If you’re facing family court battles with a sociopath, I recommend that you buy and read Splitting—Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist, by William A. Eddy. It may be the best $25 you ever spend.
Eddy, the author, is both a therapist (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) and an attorney. He understands the law, the courts and how people with personality disorders can manipulate them. You need to understand all of this as well.
The book explains the court process; the roles of attorneys, evaluators and other professionals; how to gather evidence; and generally what to expect.
Tactics and strategies
As the subtitle suggests, Splitting refers to people with borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, whom Eddy calls “persuasive blamers.” References to sociopaths are limited. Still, the tactics and strategies he suggests would be helpful in dealing with a sociopath as well.
One of Eddy’s main points is that you must be assertive right from the beginning of your case. The blamer may accuse you of infidelity, mental instability, child abuse or sexual misconduct—accusations which the court will take seriously. You must be prepared to respond to the accusations immediately. Once the court issues judgments and rulings—even if they are based on lies—it is very difficult to get them undone later.
Eddy discusses the importance of documentation, and how it can bolster your case. In fact, the book includes an interview with a man who aggressively gathered documentation to prove his wife’s pattern of behavior to the court evaluator. Four former husbands gave statements indicating that she had done the same things to them that she was doing to him.
Should you mention the disorder?
Eddy also has a chapter devoted to whether or not you should have an expert testify about the personality disorder. He recognizes the dilemma:
If you are too aggressive about raising this subject, the judge may be angry with you for seeming to attack someone’s personality.
Yet if the judge does not fully understand the personality dynamics beneath the surface, the court may misunderstand your case and get it backwards.
From my experience and the input of others, it appears best to gently present this information to the court, but not rely on it being accepted.
Eddy then outlines ways in which psychological information may be presented, and how it may affect the outcome of the case, even if it is not explicit in court rulings.
Splitting is available online from BPDCentral.com. If you’re going to family court against a sociopath, read this book.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
will be okay says:
My ex vilified his ex wife to everyone, and does to this day. Yet they seem to have a decent relationship dealing with their son, my guess is because she knows what kind of man he is and doesn’t make any waves.
He loves to tell this story… When his ex told him she was going to use it against him in court that he is so ‘anti religion’.. He went out and got a ministers license!!!
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Wednesday, 3 January 2007 @ 12:14pm
will be okay says:
PS.. Forgot to mention.. He laughed about ‘How he could marry people if he wanted to’. I guess it’s no suprize he never renewed the license when it expired.. it had served it’s purpose.
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Wednesday, 3 January 2007 @ 12:26pm
ErinBrock says:
MYBOYS…I’m over here…..
this thread has way less posts and it’s on topic.
Okay…heres what I want you to do today….
Call the court clerks office where you filed….and ask them….step by step what the process is IF Mr. S doesn’t respond to your divorce petition….you don’t necessarily need to give anything about your case….just ask these questions.
DON”T ask your attorney….call the court yourself.
I want you to be clear on the process……
Were you given a court date with your petition.
If so….MAKE SURE, come hell or high water…..you or your attorney don’t change that date!!!!
Any changes, and the S will have to be served….and you know how that goes…..
I want to tell you……even though this is a ‘legal’ process….my experience has been that courts don’t hold to a ‘t’ deadlines…..like IF he responds tomorrow or next week, or shows up at the hearing (if one was set)….then the courts may allow him to be heard….because he has a ’stake’ in the proceedings.
This is NOT right…..but it is what judges tend to do….stretch the laws for schlaggs……they see it all the time.
Now it’s important you keep level and balanced…..this is where the pain in the ass happens…..
I don’t believe it’s as easy as just ‘being divorced by April’…..
Youve got to prepare yourself….for anythign…..and NOT be disappointed….
He could come back with all sorts of chit…..like….your honor, I was out of the country…..I wasn’t served properly (sis has lead up to this)…..OR….he could hire an attorney NOW…..
The court won’t turn him away….UNFORTUNATELY.
Just don’t look at this as a ’slam dunk’.
Light a fire under your attorneys butt and tell him you want to proceed with HASTE!
IF you can figure out a better way to have him served….figure it out……it’ll costs you less than if your attorney just does protocol service…..
Remember, your attorney will do things standardly……
YOU CAN DO THE GROUNDWORK on your case…..such as trying to locate him, job…etc….keep tabs on him for this purpose ONLY!!! NOT the emotional purposes…..you MUST SEPARATE……It’s NOT a divorce…..this is a lawsuit….and you can’t get emotional!!! That’s the balance……hard one!!!
So….hope this helps ya….but get on that phone and call the courts yourself right now!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 12:54pm
OxDrover says:
Dear ErinB,
Great advice.
Unfortunately for most of us the “laws” are pretty complex and Judges and attorneys have great leighway in how they use the laws.
I don’t propose that ALL of us go out and get a law license or attend law school,, but it is GOOD SENSE I think to learn something about LAWS and how they might effect you.
I took a course in BUSINESS LAW and kept my text book for reference and it has saved my ARSE in multiple occasions.
One for example, we (my husband and I) had a business deal with another person that involved him working on an aircraft, that we had bought for the intent and purpose of selling after he did the work. His compensation was a percentage AFTER the sale of the plane. We wanted this to be drawn up in a CONTRACT to protect both him and us. SO we hired and paid an attorney to do this.
When the attorney gave us the contract, because of my knowledge of BUSINESS LAW, I immediately spotted SEVERAL GLARING holes in the contract. One of which was, HOW LONG HE HAD TO COMPLETE HIS PART OF THE PROJECT, and what happened if he did PART OF IT and never finished it, and what would happen if he DIED IN THE MIDDLE OF IT?
So, if I hadn’t known something about contractual laws I would have missed these entirely. As it did turn out, HE TOOK LONGER TO COMPLETE THE WORK THAN AGREED ON, AND HE DIED BEFORE HE COMPLETED IT. If We had not had those clauses in there (which the attorney didn’t think of) we would have lost our underware in the deal. As it was, we lost our pants, but we at least kept our underware.
I think it behooves each person dealing with an attorney to double check some of the legal aspects and to learn about whatever it is that they are dealing on.
There’s an old joke about physicians—-”what do you call the doctor who finished LAST IN HIS MEDICAL SCHOOL CLASS?”
The answer is DOCTOR.
Same for ATTORNEYS, you call them John Doe, “esquire.”
Sometimes things are SO complex you have to have a “second opinion” from another doctor or attorney if you cannot study the problem and come up with some reasonable answer yourself.
Or if you are so EMOTIONALLY involved in the problem that you can’t think straight. I’VE BEEN THERE and got the TEE on that last one as well. I would have done much better if I hadn’t been so emotionally involved and had gotten better control over my emotions and thinking, and it is DIFFICULT TO DO when you are in a chaotic and emotional situation.
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 1:28pm
ErinBrock says:
Oxy.
I have always hated being ‘out of the loop’ on situations going on IN my life….(although I let the spath keep me out of loop!)…..any property I purchased, I wanted to know the process……wha’ts next….who orders what, who pays for what….what is YOUR job, what is expected of ME. This has served me well.
During the divorce, this behavior served me VERY WELL!!!
It always pays, to be an informed consumer and with the internet….there is really no excuse.
I’m watching my GF, who went to final divorce hearing in early Jan…pay out the butt for her forensic accountant and her attorney…(who BTW…took off for a months vacation to Egypt several days after her hearing)……WHo do ya think paid for that trip?????
Her divorce is still NOT signed…..the accountants and attorneys are milking them…..and we aren’t talking peanuts……SHE has paid alone…over 300K for accountant and attorney…..PATHETIC….
I keep telling her to do the figures herself……..do the research herself…..because whatever they present to her is hoblygogbly to her anyways……they make sense to the accountant…..but not her…..then he goes back to the drawing board ON HER Dime!!!
If she was more involved and figured out UPFRONT what she wanted and what she would settle for…..she wouldn’t have spent her alimony on the pro’s.
Currently they are fighting over a 2000. child support payment NOT made in January…..It’s cost them about 15K to fight about that…..
THIS IS FIGHTING TO FIGHT!!!!!
She talks the talk…..but she ain’t walking the walk….
I go through her docs with her and hightlight points……but she doesn’t do the work to know what I’m talking about to approach her attorney…..and just let’s the attorney ‘go’ with whatever the attorney does……AT HER COST!!!
I think, the more we are involved, the more we can design HOW it goes, and set a precident to not allow the attorneys to have ulterior motives with our case….(like to take a trip to Egypt or pay off a car etc)…..
Think of the peeps in our lives we KNOW are informed…..that get what they want out of situations…..
Because they are less likely to be taken advantage of…..and drive the car they are riding in!!!!
Yes, it takes great work and commitment to push the emotions aside……but it is a MUST!
Deal with em later…..get business taken care of first!!!!
Crumble later.
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 1:51pm
ErinBrock says:
I would be surprised if the hearing date doesn’t have to be served on him……
I’m not an attorney…..just sayen….
Just as long as YOUR clear on the process…..
It is my understanding you also can’t collect alimony for a default divorce…..
and how about CS?
Any properties owned, assets…..don’t ya gotta list everything you owned together……
AND have him sign off?
Are there assets? Sorry I dont’ recall.
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 1:59pm
myboysmattermost says:
I am like you EB…I like to educate myself as much as possible…the info is out there just waiting to be learned. That is how I found LF…
My attorney is new, very new…but good! He actually got the judge to sign off on substitute serving a TRO – almost unheard of!!
He has two mentors he consults with my questions, so he is learning at the same time. I am one of his first divorce cases, so he is getting an education in sociopaths and their behavior too…I hope he takes that experience forward and help victims in the future.
Best of all, he is affordable and on top of that, has been discounting my fees…making it VERY affordable. I feel so blessed.
CS is going though the AG and the court date is April 8. That is a separate matter.
As I don’t get alimony, etc in a default divorce, I do get all the community property. As he is at fault in this divorced and abandoned the home and spent our funds frivolously the last few months and I have proof, I will be able to put the bulk of the marital debt on him.
The home is going into foreclosure – it is in his name only and will not affect my credit. The home needs to much work at this point (collapsed sewer line, no heat/air, and he trashed it before he left. My son will not sleep in his room (where the stbx holed himself up and went off the deep end) as that is what he calls the “drug den and says he sees the “ghost” of his father in his white sweatshirt” in there…so we are moving…I am saving up money now to do so…can prob stay here until it gets too hot to go without AC.
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 2:07pm
ErinBrock says:
Do your homework girl…..
Make a LIST OF ALL ASSETS…..and make sure you know what you need to have HIM (S) name taken off of….
THIS is what I’m still trying to deal with….even thoguht i was awarded everything…..trying to get his name off things is the problem, the house is the biggest…I need him off….or he’s gonna meet me back in court!!!
I’m gearing up for this.
Also another thing I have learned is….jsut because a divorce is final…..that’s when the real work begins…..it doens’t end…just the legal ties of it…..the cleanup is messy!!!
Go getem girl!!!!!
You sound like your right on track!!!
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 2:17pm
myboysmattermost says:
I just want to get the divorce done with right now and then tackle the rest after…
According to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure 245, I do not have to serve him with the trial date unless he responds at any time between now and the final date.
And my requirement is:
to serve papers at her last known address, DONE
the Citation is returned to the clerk’s office with proof of your service, DONE
If all of this is done then all you need to do if prepare the final divorce decree for the judge’s signature. A brief hearing may be held at which the judge will sign the divorce decree making it official.
I have already provided my attorney a list of all assets and how I want it divided – the majority of our furniture was willed to me by my Grandmother…
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 2:26pm
myboysmattermost says:
And I do have a resource for keeping tabs on him. It is how I am finding his addresses and proof he is in Florida.
I am using it to provide info to the AG to track him down for child support.
I am also doing quite a bit of the groundwork for the divorce…I had it all ready to go to do by myself when he all of a sudden started calling out of the blue…that is when the attorney who was reviewing my papers for me suggested I hire my attorney just in case. It has made it easier to get through the courts and faster than doing it myself…
It is not a slam dunk…yet…he could mess it up in so many ways…I am just hoping for the best while expecting and preparing for the worst…
I do need to get his name off my truck…don’t use joint accounts, opened up one of my own…
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 2:44pm
myboysmattermost says:
Please let me see if you see any holes/gaps in what I am doing. I fully realize part of the learning process is to take other perspectives into consideration…
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 3:07pm
OxDrover says:
Dear My boys,
As far as the CHILD SUPPORT, you mightr actually be better off letting him “disappear” and doing without the money if it would KEEP HIM OUT OF YOUR AND YOUR KIDS’ LIVES.
Many times if they “abandon” the kids, and don’t pay support and./or visit with the kids, you can later (if you remarry) have your new husband adopt the “abandoned kids.”
My P-sperm donor never paid support and only visited me 1 x when I was about age 2 after my birth, and that was used to have the state declare me an “abandoned child” and my step father was able to legally adopt me. This “safeguarded” me from if my egg donor had died, my sperm donor could not have gotten custody of me.
Something to think about. Usually even if you get child support AWARDED Then YOU still have to figure out how to collect and they are so slippery you spend more trying to get the money than it may be worth, and many times a man trying to skip out on child support succeeds.
Just some things to think about.
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 3:23pm
OxDrover says:
EB I agree with you, you (we) must be PROACTIVE in these things or an attorney can make himself money just dragging their feet. Many times probate attorneys do this in a will contestation and so on. Get the realtives to fight and the sharks get the money! That may happen to me as well when the egg donor passes on, but I went and got some ADVICE NOW before it is needed from an attorney who didn’t charge me much ( he handled my husband’s estate) and the thing is that I know this guy is honest. He is retiring so I have to go retain another attorney in my county—my county is so “good old boy system crooked” that I wanted a recommendation of which CROOK to hire from someone who knew who had the power and who didn’t. I still haven’t gone for an appointment with the recommended crook yet, but will very soon. Want a PRE-NEED set up so I can POUNCE when the time comes.
Also have to be very careful that “word doesn’t get out” to my egg donor before this NEED is there either. When I took her to court before, WORD GOT TO HER before I got done with the FIRST appointment with my attorney (who BTW was a poor choice done in HASTE)
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 3:31pm
myboysmattermost says:
thanks again…writing it out helps me to process it but I have deleted the details…
I have a plan…I know where this is going and I am discovering it was a lot easier to get married than to get divorced.
Marry a lot more carefully next time if and when the opportunity presents itself;)
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 5:27pm
ErinBrock says:
MyBoys:
This sounds more accurate.
It’s never as easy as it seems…..and this was the warning I wanted to give you last week…..about ‘new’ things coming up…..expect everything and take what you get….
Just when we think we ‘got it down’ and understand the process……something comes up.
DON”T LET THIS DISCOURAGE YOU……just expect anything.
I’m sure he will throw a cog in the wheel….but I hope not….but expect it….your dealing with a S……this is what they do!
If you go into it….spearheading the ‘prize’…..the end result…..remain focus and educatated, with every step…..then you’ll come off this ‘rollercoaster’ in good shape.
I think you should expect a longer timeline and the first thing i’d do is try to find him (covertly) and keep tabs on his location and any money he may be making….
HOWEVER you can achieve this…..
Service is your NEXT PRIORITY….to move things along…..
Ya wanna see him sweat……get him served wherever he is hiding out……this drives my s CRAZY…..I alwyas know where he’s at…..because I made connections and get fed info.
I also hunted him down personally at times….did drivebyes, out of state etc….WAY ERIN BROCKOVICH style……
Until I’m done legally with him…..I’ll keep tabs on him……until the TPO is up….I’ll keep tabs on him……I wanna know when he’s gonna be in town…..for safety AND service reasons…..
Y0ou otta see their faces when you have em served at a friends house in ‘ eastern Istanbul’……it freaks them out…..
Mine was convinced I had a PI on him full time for years…..uh, yeah….that’ll teach em to discount us! he never gave me credit for being savvy!
As far as CS….I’d get an order…default if needed….then report ALL unpaid support immediately to the DA’s office , or whoever collects in your state. You might not get anything right away…..but it NEVER goes away…..so later on down the line. IF YOU SO CHOOSE….you can go after any assets……
Don’t expect payments…..but If I remember right….your youngest is 13 or 14 ish…..so you don’t have many years left……
It’s just another layer….
Typically, these guys, when they know the kids don’t want em…they will go away and reappear after 18…..because it’s YOUR FAULT they don’t like me…..you’ve poisoned them against me….yadayada…..
and if he doesn’t have money to fight in court…..or any smarts….he’ll go away……
He will use his family….so expect that too. Play them if you have to.
Play the ‘little woman’ if your cabable….Don’t dog the S…..to them….it won’t behoove you….you’ll never get them on ‘yourside’……so just play em to gain information.
And use it as you need to …..BUT REMAIN UNEMOTIONAL and kepe your cards covered…..Play counter control and remain in that mode throughout the process……NO EMOTIONS……business only.
So…..get on it girl…..the only thing that will hold you back is service. So…..hunt him down…..but COVERTLY!!!
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 5:40pm
ErinBrock says:
Use cash…..Keep cash……keep all receipts…keep all kids expenses in separate binder…..expensed out.
Also….If your car is registered in Jane Doe OR John Doe….go get the title in you name only NOW…..
If not….get the docs from the DMV ready to be served after the vehicle is awarded to you.
Do YOU have the title?
You wouldn’t by chance had a POWER OF ATTORNEY signed by him would you?
Does he have health insurance under your policy still? You can keep tabs on him this way too…..where he visits dr’s….get the records through the ins. co.
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Monday, 29 March 2010 @ 5:57pm
myboysmattermost says:
And that’s the way it is!!:)
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Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 12:07am
ErinBrock says:
GOOD!!!
You sound strong….KeEp it up…..and geterdone!!!
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Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 1:25am
Harmonyman says:
Morning all…little help….I am going thru the divorce proceedings now I filed back in march of 09…I fell back in to her trap several times…I have been fair and honest…with my attorney…S has worked for attorneys since Ive know her she is cunning ,clever and has not been straight with her attorney of course(her atty was a camel jockey in a circus ) no really! they are dragging this out…her atty is feeding her crap and she is feeding her atty crap….I have to go to court 2moro(april fools day) for a motion to delay more because atty hasnt had time for discovery…it been a year…Im hoping the judge will rule in our favor the trial is set for APRIL 19th….help ..going to talk to a therapist today…hope fully he can help me …I feel like Ive been hit with a 4 x 4 right sg n the frontal lobe…I not sleeping well…or thinking as clearly as I normally do…help pleas…thank you to all!!!!
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Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 7:52am
silvermoon says:
hman,
Divorce is a legal process for seperating the essntially business and legal aspects of marriage. The decisions are based on a fain discovery and division of assets.
The negotiations must be based on facts to be acceptable to a judge.
So, stick to facts. Stay close to YOUR attorney and remember that most of the he said/she said that goes on has very little to do with the negotiations.
The basis for any of the stuff that is worrying you ins positioning to negotiate for property settlement and financial assets.
At the bottom line, its a business negotiation.
If you have been fair and honest with your attorney and consistently worked from facts which are proveable, then you have the upper hand.
Stick with the facts. Keep your pencil sharp on the numbers and stay close to your attorney. Let them do the negotiationg if your are shaken emotionally. Its what you are paying them for! And they know the ins and outs of the law better.
What governs divorce is the assets and income. The divorce is going to divide them between you. It will make no judgement about her character. However, any failure to disclose or untrue information about the assets and income won’t be regarded highly by the judge.
I understand the hit by the 4X4 and most of us here have shared that experience. Don’t let the way you feel throw you for a loop. Its normal to be nervous and feel distressed.
Therapy is a GREAT IDEA. Let us know how that goes for you, I hope it helps. It has been good for me in the past when I was really distressed.
Sleep helps too! That’s a biggie! If your sleep is off, don’t forget to use excercise a walk? as a way to help yourself get centered.
Mst of all, as simple as it sounds- don’t forget to breathe deeply, ground yourself and BE HERE NOW.
We’ll be right here.
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Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 8:07am
one_step_at_a_time says:
Harmony man – can you take benedryl? it’s an over the counter antihistamine. it can help you sleep.
look – i know most of us care about being fair an djust and proceeding with integrity. but spaths don’t and it only matters in court to he extent that it doesn’t pith off the judge and shows you in a good light.
being a good person isn’t a strategy. and you need a strategy. silvermoom has given you some info. Help from both Matt and ErinBrock here would be very useful. EB is here everyday, matt not so much.
Keep writing, keep the faith, get a strategy!
(Report abusive comment)
Wednesday, 31 March 2010 @ 8:20am
Harmonyman says:
omg i have been typing for 25 minutes and just lost it all befor getting to post…shit..telling u all what is going on…dammit damit..shit omg..she is trying to crush me!!
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 11:43am
Harmonyman says:
she is trying to take evrything…she is a thief she been charged with 30 counts of fidutiary theft… to the tune of 50,000 thousand ..I cant believe I lost all that effort..i really was laying it out…oh man this is so frustrating..
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 11:46am
learning says:
Harmonyman,
When that happens I want to SCREAM!
Take a deep breath… remember the key word with regard to your ex…is she is “trying”… she hasnt succeeded… she is just trying… it may be to absolutely no avail… so keep your balance as best as you can. Two feet firmly planted and on the ground…through chaos and confusion you can find the harmony in yourself
sounds tacky but Ive seen your Myspace page and I know you have the spirit and light to regroup within.
Stay strong. Sort out the facts. Stick to the basics. Stay on course.
Right now in this moment … just breathe…and know you are going to be okay. Take one day at a time. Expect the unexpected with her and stay on course with your lawyer. Do not let her get the best of you… she can try all she wants… she will NOT succeed.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 11:56am
Harmonyman says:
she has worked with attorneys as long as i have know her..shes an exceptional organizer..and lier…when it comes to this stuff
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:14pm
Harmonyman says:
i have a myspacepage?
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:15pm
learning says:
OH MY GOODNESS …. oops.. If not — Im totally mistaken and I totally apologize
I really thought you were the person who shared his myspace page here at LF… thank you for clarifying… so while I feel soo embarrassed right now, my advice still remains that she is just “trying” — she has yet to succeed.
She may be an exceptional organizer and liar…but you WILL have your say too. Focus on that – what you can do, what you can bring to the table…You have a chance at being heard too — focus on your truth and bring it all to the table.
Again, my apologies for mistaking you for another poster at LF.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:21pm
Harmonyman says:
I looked I do have a myspace page..I think a friend must have set it up..not much there..u could have me mistaken though..please dont apologize
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:29pm
Harmonyman says:
I cant believe ilost all of that post …thank u Learning…I am going to get on the tractor…cut some fields and tear something up!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:34pm
Harmonyman says:
SHE IS A LYING GOLDDIGGER THAT NEVER QUITS TILL SHE GETS HER WAY,I WANT TO KICK HER LYING ASS…… IN COURT
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:36pm
learning says:
Harmonyman – I definitely mistook you for another poster… the page Im referring to has sooooo many quotes and uplifiting sayings/photos… it was quite some time ago – so Im not sure how I made the connection to you, other than possibly something similar with the names…
You made me laugh when you said ” I have a myspace page? after I just finished raving about it! I should probably find the link and forward it to you just so you can get energy and strength from his harmonious page!
In the meantime, I hope you can take one day at a time and remember she is only in the process of “trying” to get the best of you. Dont let her. Easier said than done, I know…but still possible when you gain back focus and control and simply do your best on your end.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 12:37pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Harmonyman – doing something intense and physical will release the pent up rage. i hope dropping those shares into the ground helped.
post a bunch – and people will be able to help you get focused on how to move through the legal proceedings.
i said it before and i will say it again – being decent and honest only matters to people who are decent and honest. with her, you need strategies for dealing with spaths and the people within the systems you are dealing with – who will often not have a clue or WANT to have a clue about what she is.
hang in there – evil has been around forever, and your job is to learn how to out maneuver it in service to your own sanity.
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 1:27pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Harmony man,
I live out in the sticks and have a problem someitmes in losing interent connection and then posting (before I check) so you can type your post into word or some other document and then paste into the comment box, or you can type on the comment box and SAVE it to your ocmputer in case it croaks and you lose it.
I’ve lost a couple of longn posts here lately because I didn’t save it…oh, well, I figure it is the universe’s way of telling me I didn’t need to post that right now anyway. LOL
I hear your frustration and anger! It is just so UNREAL seeming sometimes that anyone, even a psychopathic monster could thinkk of all the things they think of to do!
There just doesn’t seem to be a reason for all of this except EVIL…just pure evil!
I don’t know how to combat it myself sometimes and I just want to bang my head into the table! Other times I can “handle it” okay—your reaction to get on the tractor and go destroy something, tear something up, is a pretty good reaction I think!
Or go play some music to soothe your savage soul! Maybe she will go to jail over this and you can write a “jail house blues” song just for her!
(Report abusive comment)
Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 4:37pm
hgg522 says:
I would like to thank lovefraud first of all. This is my first post, but I have been reading for a few years now. I wont get into the gorry details of the last 6 years of my life and trying to disconnect from my s/p ex on this post. Maybe later. Too many details. We have children involved and I am sure many of you can relate to the distress the s/p is causing to me and my children. I want to comment on this post, though, because I bought the book Splitting and read it front to back. Very good information. However, there is a forward in the book from an IL attorney that claims to know much about this subject. I called this attorney and had contact with him and told him my situation. I even thought of using him for “co-counsel” advice, paid advice of course due to the extremes of this case. Well, needless to say he is now representing my ex s/p. And he is very well versed at all of the tactics William Eddy describes and warns of. He is also a member of APA and is using his knowlege of high conflict divorce and custody to twist and flip the truth. He is big on PAS and is trying to say I am alientating my kids from my ex when in fact it is the other way around. My ex has managed to, with the guide of his attorney, to turn this case into a “he said/she said” case. Not to mention paying off the court appointed evaluator who took over a year to submit his report that took everything I said and my concerns as accusations and every thing my ex and his wife said as truth. (His wife who by the way is a product of an affair). There is no easy way out of an s/p’s life. He said he was going to ruin my life. My hope for all that are in this type of mess, keep moving forward. The devil is a liar and operates thru fear and intimidation. But the bible says that God does not give us the spirit of fear…but of power, of love, and of a sound mind. The truth will prevail. Stay strong and disengage emotionally as much as possible. They never loved you so why give them your power by responding. I am so greatful for this site. It has taught me so much. I always new there was something wrong in our marriage and with my ex, but I could never put my finger on it. Now I can and knowledge is power. There are so many people hurting because of these concsiousless shells of darkness. The best we can do is be a good example for our kids. Teach them what we know when they are old enough to understand. We have to be their rock..Thank you for listening…
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 8:16pm
OxDrover says:
Dear HGG,
Well, glad you are here and glad you are somewhat versed in all of this chaos. Thanks for posting and sharing! Sounds like a good book for those that need it.
God bless and good luckk in your court case.
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 9:20pm
GettingIt says:
HGG, I feel your pain. On the day of my trial I woke up and I was afraid of how the court will percieve me. Out of the blue, in my mind I had a vision of Jesus. he was judged by the court. He was human and the court was human and he was judged wrongly. So, that helped me realize that no matter what the Humans think of me in that court room, I know the truth, I have the integrity and the power of being a mother. I wish I got safety for my child. I did not. But, I got my sanity back and that is the best I could do for my child at this time. I don’t know if it was a spiritual message or it was my interpretation of what I had learned, but since this vision, I had not been nearly as afraid and I trust that my child will be OK until such time that I can regroup and bring more evidence forth (hope not to have to).
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 9:29pm
silvermoon says:
It is always important to understand and have faith in the possibility that there is a plan greater than our own, and when things don’t work out the way we want or hope, that in the longer run they may even better than we dreamed.
Remember, “Faith Hope and Love and the greatest of these is Love”.
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Saturday, 10 April 2010 @ 10:27pm
Harmonyman says:
gotta post…extremely MAD and ANGRY s just had the grandchild call and say “POPs can u get the key (to the house where gran was living the courts made her leave because of the past aggressions it on the other piece of property about 2 miles by road and 3/4s by the woods) I want to go see my room..she was crying and very upset..4 yrs old ..HOW THE F?^&..can someone do that 2 a child…what a sick BITCH…now I really want her ass KICKED in the courts of course…Im sitting hear in tears..I am soooo PISSED >>I have to keep this anger …I need to keep this anger until court may 24th…I will keep this anger..damn !!!luv yall!!
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Sunday, 11 April 2010 @ 6:00pm
ErinBrock says:
Harmony:
It’s all angering……especially when a child is involved….
You MUST remain balanced……and find a way to cope with these triggers from your Gbaby.
It’s NOT going to stop…..so collect yourself and find a way to use it against her.
Document this……
It’s covert abuse…..and it’s gonna be hard to prove.
This baby is going to be used to ‘get to you’…..you have to be the ‘adult’ and explain in 4 year old terms……simple, yet concise….
Shes’ gonna be in for these ’sad days’ alot living in the environment she’s in….
The serenity prayer should be your friend……..
The quicker you learn to ‘expect’ this shiat from the spath…..the quicker your gonna be able to ‘cope’ with it without letting it send you orbital!!!!
Find the control, find the strength, and document….
XXOO
EB
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Sunday, 11 April 2010 @ 6:43pm
Buttons says:
ErinBrock, you have the best information with regard to coping with a legal battle against a sociopath.
The only thing that I can reiterate is DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. Phone calls, dates, exact quotes, expenses, everything and anything, even if it seems irrelevant. I actually kept a notebook on hand, at all times. I also made copies with periodic updates that I gave (in sealed envelopes) to trusted individuals just in the event that “Something Happened.”
When children are involved, it is they who suffer the most – the misinformation and demands of loyalty, etc. Do your very best to leave them out of all adult issues. It’s bad enough for them to have the sociopath ripping them apart, but two parents splitting the baby is too much for them to bear.
I’ve been through it, myself, and each and every one of you who is involved in this ugly legal dance are in my most positive thoughts. Best regards…Buttons
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Sunday, 11 April 2010 @ 8:23pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Harmonyman,
I agree with the postings above! Keep coming here and blogging, let your anger rage here, but KEEP YOUR COOL, it is important to keep our cool heads. I got so emotionally involved in it all, so angry that it blinded me so much Ii came off sounding like a NUT CASE!
It is important that we not let them “crazy make” us and they will do everything and use everyone they can to make us look like the nut job. They stand there like “Joe cool” and we end up slobbering like a sick dog.
Keep your anger, but cool it down to a COLD ANGER, and keep your head about you! I won’t tell you it was easy, but I learned the HARD WAY so hopefully my “losing it” will forewarn you and give you an advantage! God bless you!!!! My prayers!
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Sunday, 11 April 2010 @ 10:06pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
…and slowly we turn into stealy creatures, in protection of our honest loving hearts and those of others.
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Sunday, 11 April 2010 @ 10:45pm
ErinBrock says:
Buttons:
I only hope my experience and information I learned through my journey can help others…..
Trial and error…..just the school of hard knocks……
I studied the laws and pressed ahead in the courts and was successful.
I believe dealing with a spath in court is a VERY DIFFERENT GAME…..
My first attorney’s secretary looked at me early on and said….EB…THIS IS NOT A CHESS GAME…..
I fired them shortly after…..
Contrair my dear…..IT IS A CHESS GAME…..and every move counts!!!!!
I beleive success CAN be achieved……with the right moves.
Keep on plugging along…..we ALL do it for different reasons.
I’m glad my input is helpful to some…..
I want EVERY SPATH to be exposed and every dupe to be successful…..
It’s not an easy road….we all know this.
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 12:35am
silvermoon says:
harmony-
You are angry. Good. That means you have energy. Now conserve it and USE it for result. Forge the heat of it into something as cold and hard as steel and use it as the weapon to defeat this monster in court.
What she is doing to that child is WRONG. And that is what you are fighting for.
Until you are soveriegn, you may not fight for the little one. Get cool and clear and go to court like Ike went to Normandy!
Fight for it!
And we will be here to support you.
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Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 12:38am
silvermoon says:
I can’t stand it! Another day has gone by and that means I have waited three whole weeks for my filing to be served to the SPATH in JAIL.
I don’t understand why this isn’t getting done and nobody seems to know who has the ball or how to get it downfield.
I could just scream. They got their money and now nothing.
The legal system is a pain in the ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the meantime, the small town in Colorado where I have a house that I rented has decided they don’t like my tenant so they are going to leverage me to run him out and then the drunk next door gets to harass the next one and the next one.
I am so tired of the tire treads over me.
I can’t fight all these battles by getting angry but I can’t help feeling really stressed.
The system doesn’t work for people – just the crazies and drunks that have time to play it.
I could just scream! Just!
Remind me it was my idea to quit smoking today.
One hell of a day for it.
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Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 5:06pm
hgg522 says:
That is just what these s/p’s expect for us to be is ANGRY..then they can go tell their little “hate army” crew what angry people we are. We have a right to be angry. The bible even says”be angry and sin not”. Anger is an emotion that is for our protection. I get angry but am not an angry person. They try to tell my kids..”ohhh, your mom is an angry person”. That is what they are pushing us to be. The best thing we can do is to take care of ourselves, eat right, exercise and retain our peace. Not giving them the response they are looking for is the best way to fight back. My ex s/p and his wife certainly do not live right. He is in a rock band, up all night, they both drink heavily, possibly doing drugs (his wife’s son OD’d recently). They eat out at restaurants all the time..,you better believe this type of lifestyle will eventually catch up to them. They are not as young as they think or as resiliant. I just found out they actually left the 7 y/o child (my ex’s step child)behind when they went to the restaurant. They got there and realized she had been forgotten. I guess they have a lot on their minds..ya think? It is somewhat survival of the fittest as well as making the right moves. When we treat our selves right, our minds are sharper and we can stay one step ahead. Get angry rightfully, but dont stay angry, keep your power and dont give them your emotions. I want to make a bumper sticker “EXPOSE SOCIOPATHS”! What do you think…
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Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 11:27pm
ErinBrock says:
hgg:
GREAT IDEA…..got a spot on my car for it!
“It is somewhat survival of the fittest as well as making the right moves. When we treat our selves right, our minds are sharper and we can stay one step ahead. Get angry rightfully, but dont stay angry, keep your power and dont give them your emotions. ”
Couldn’t be more accurate a statement!
it’s part of the recipe to success in dealing with a spath through the courts and in life afterwards…
GOOD CALL!
Ya know….Vistaprint.com makes up all sorts of stickers/stationary, and CAR MAGNETS…..
Wouldn’t a car magnet be perfect….big and removable for inappropriate places…..that you don’t want to appear ‘angry’….
You could do a series of sociopath stickers….
the circle with line through it…NO sociopaths…
Sociopaths suck
Do you Know where your CLUSTER B is?
My ex was sociopath of the year in XX town.
Google CLUSTER B.
Do you know what a personality disorder is???
Cluster B’s and Domestic Violence go hand in hand.
I see a home business here girl…..
(Report abusive comment)
Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 11:47pm
silvermoon says:
Eb-
We need a t shirt for you that says Spath buster!
Who ya gonna call???
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Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 11:55pm
ErinBrock says:
LOVE IT!
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Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 11:57pm
ErinBrock says:
Silver:
Remind me what docs your serving in jail?
And in Ca?
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Monday, 12 April 2010 @ 11:58pm
silvermoon says:
In Va
serving anulment
had to get permission from USMS to serve him in regional jail and it has been SITTING with no explanation for 3 weeks.
don’t understand!
Don’t know who to call because the attorney did his part- why would clerks/sheriffs not just get job done?
Am thinking about going to my congressman to ask why the USMS would block the service- that’s the only reason I can think of?
Thoughts?
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:05am
ErinBrock says:
What I found out was serving someone in Jail (especially an out of state case) is problematic with different ‘juristictions’ or agency’s….
I’d contact the warden or (whoever is in charge at jail) AND the Marshalls, EVERY DAY, until you get a return receipt of service….
And MAKE SURE your attorney knows you wish to be notified IMMEDIATELY upon service.
Why were the marshals involved? Just for service….they dont have anything to do with the jail do they?
I was lucky to have my business Spath served in Jail in another state…..and found there are lots’ of service issues when someone is in jail…
Become the pig they want to shut up….
Get certified copies of the service docs….so you can do this yourself…..the groundwork….and if you need to contact the politicians….it’ll cost you less to do the groundwork.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:11am
silvermoon says:
I just found out the problem- they moved him out of state and I bet the people here don’t even know it.
Boy am I pissed!
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:22am
ErinBrock says:
Can you do an inmate search…..
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:30am
silvermoon says:
yeah I did. Thats how I found him…..
he’s in an FCI now a few hundred miles away in another state.
No wonder this is dragging.
that *.*ing attny – I am so angry I could spit nails cuz if he knew he didn’t tell and I bet he doesn’t even know because he’s busy chasing ambulances.
Its not right but its done and now I have to find out what to do about it.
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:35am
pollyannanomore says:
Some points to think about
1) Use the assistant wherre possible – they know about your case and are cheaper
2) Only go into the office when you need to discuss something or sign papers
3) Make use of email and phone calls to stay informed of what is happening – appointments are more expensive
4) The lawyer is a hired gun – you are paying them for their expertise like any other professional – so don’t be intimidated. They can give you advice but at the end of the day as the client they need to carry out your wishes
Totally agree with others who highlight knowing the process and documenting everything – this saves you money and makes life much less stressful.
Remember Ps always make a few fatal errors – if you can find proof of them you will be in clover!
Good luck to everyone fighting against one of these monsters – it does eventually come to conclusion but you need the patience of a saint to see that day!
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:44am
ErinBrock says:
contact the jail yourself and ask them their protocal to have their new inmate served.
Id’ do it myself, if you can.
This is what we preach….follow up….cuz shiat like this happens ALL THE TIME!!! And WE are the ones left hanging….
You will take care of it….your a spath bulldozer!!!
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 12:47am
silvermoon says:
I told him over and over thatTIME IS OF THE ESSENCE in this case and he poo pooed me.
Well, now I am going to tell him that the cost of service in a Federal country club is on him for waiting and stalling and bing uninformed and see if that flies.
I did follow up and they gave me the business, Now, its going to cost a fortune! And take months. And ruin my plans . I handed him the case all he had to do was serve it.
today has been the worst day of my life. good news?
it doesn’t get worse than this?
LOL!
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 2:02am
ErinBrock says:
No….don’t go down that bleek, bleek road…..
It shouldn’t be a biggie….just figure out WHAT needs to be done/requirments and geterdone YOURSELF.
Find a service co…..OR JUST Fed ex it to the new jail….with your counties proof of service forms to be sent back to you.
Don’t get discouraged…..and If you can NAIL this attorney….NAIL him….it’s typical attorney behavior…..
(HEY….and just an FYI……I said that for years….and each time I said it …..something knew got added to the ‘buffet’….so DON”T EVER SAY THAT…cuz life may just prove you wrong…)
It’s doable….YOU KNOW THIS….
Just a little setback! At least you KNOW ABOUT IT!!!
Keep your head up….and PLOW FORWARD!!!!!
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 2:10am
silvermoon says:
Its a solveable problem.
yes, I will get the attny’s head on a platter.
By the time my family gets done, Mosby’s Ghost will be stealing his punch lines! This isn’t funny.
It isn’t ok either.
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 2:23am
geminigirl says:
Silvermoon, sweetheart, just want to give you a hug, a Hi 5, and a stiff scotch! All at once. you can do this gal!
Just remember, THIS TOO SHALL PASS> And when its a ll over you still have an intact soul a brilliant mind, and a great wit, to name just 3 of your attributes.! The spath, on th other hand, will NEVER have a soul,is doomed for Dantes seventh circle of Hades.{Or rather Inferno in Latin!} hang tough girl!
Praying for you!
Hows the cyber scotch? Single malt OK with you?
Love, and {{HUGS!!}}, Mama gem.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 3:18am
Quantum Solace says:
Too bad this advice came about 13 years too late for me and my children. If I’d only known then what I know now, things would have worked out much, much different than they did.
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 7:46am
Buttons says:
Silvermoon, you’re doing the best that you can and, at the very least, managing legal issues with a spath is one of the most difficult challenges that we have to face.
You are “allowed” to feel anger, rage, and all of the rest. But, it’s important to remember that there’s a fine line between acknowledging the frustration and getting sucked further down into that emotional cesspool that the spath has created.
A very, very good suggestion above was to use that angry energy to your advantage! Anger is a very powerful energy and a lot can get accomplished by focusing on one task at a time. I used to have to write out a list of tasks that needed attention, and work through each one, individually.
With regard to your attorney, HE/SHE is on your payroll and you have the option of firing him/her and hiring another attorney who is familiar with sociopathic behavior. The suggestions made were very sound and they will not only help in cutting the attorney fees, but provide you with tasks to accomplish. Draining our resources is one of the worst aspects of legal proceedings. I lost both of my sons to my ex because I simply ran out of resources, and the legal system isn’t interested in the flaming hoops that we are forced to jump through.
As geminigirl aptly stated, this too shall pass. Right now, this whole situation seems so overwhelming that it’s just too much to bear. If you have to say it aloud, remember that this is just temporary. Keep posting, keep venting, and use that angry energy to your advantage. Don’t be afraid to be assertive – “assertiveness” isn’t the same a bullying. And, don’t be afraid to tell your attorney that you want a comlpete inventory of his/her services to date, along with the accompnaying fees.
You’re in my positive thoughts and prayers, silvermoon. Remember, the best revenge is to live a happy, productive life – something that the spath will never, ever experience.
Brightest blessings.
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Tuesday, 13 April 2010 @ 8:46am
Harmonyman says:
Hey LF,major difficulties with soon to S she is bringing out all the bad things ,she has overwhelmed me with paper for the courts …saying things that r not true ,asking about evrything, she knows about some of my skeletons in the closet!! so she is bringing these things out …my attorney blasted back..just got more shit back, she is relentless,persistant and is hell bent bound and determined to crush me anyway she can… it seems to be working ..really has me alomost shutting down..I MUST KEEP fighting…there is so much more to say..tuff day yesterday..went to a friends funeral/memorial when i signed the book it hit hard ..I just put my name..really tuff..it was a realization that she was not there and that seemed to hurt and upset me left there had to pull over and balled like a baby!!!Each time we go back with something to her attorney, they come back with more paperwork an she knows what this is doing to me…I am not a good records keeper..she has everything ..the first check she wrote after we got married…need answers ..please help!
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 8:15am
silvermoon says:
Hman,
Your attorney has the right to ask her for every scrap of paper or record there is as process of discovery. You have to go through it with fine tooth comb but they can ask for everything. Sounds like you have an active discovery process.
Skeletons in the closet? Better make sure your attorney knows them ALL before hers finds them.
Best defense if offense. Get legal advice from a good attny and FOLLOW IT.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 9:00am
ErinBrock says:
HMan:
Okay dear…..I’m gonna be tough…..
DIVORCE IS NEVER EASY……and tactics involved are harsh…..and we exploit our former partners in the process…..
DIVORCE IS WAR…….you don’t hold the ‘enemy’s’ hand during war, you don’t offer bandaids……you BLAST away….for keeps!
I’m a bit surprised your so low….at this stage in the game….
and if your gonna make it though……your gonna have to pick up your balls and separate your emotions OUT OF THE PROCESS!
Your gonna have to learn to be organized and NOT let anything get to ya.
She’s trying to break you……
Everything she ‘knows’ about you…….CHANGE…..become good at paperwork…LEARN how to organize and file….by the schoool of hard knocks….LEARN IT, DO IT, and chaulk it off your list of ‘bothers’ or Im not good at’s…..cuz there is a lot in life you may not be good at……BUT YOUR SINGLE NOW….and YOUR GONNA HAVE TO DO THINGS FOR YOURSELF!!!!!
This is very empowering.
I think this
attitude your sharing is the same one which may have lead you to this ‘place’.
If I recall, you were not single long after your wifes passing……
I think you look to be rescued……
It didn’t work for you, and I highly suggest……you reevalueate your romanticized thinking, spend time learning aobut YOU and learn to take care of YOURSELF and your own emotions……
You can’t look at everything in a ‘romantic’ nostalgic manner……because if signing a memorial guestbook’s gonna getcha…….dude….your in for a long mind game here……
She knows your weaknesses…..she’s gonna exploit every single one of them…….MAKE THEM A FORMER WEAKNESS and prepare for the war!!!!
If your in discovery……you have only just begun. DOn’t wait for it, the requests to come it……send it all. Be proactive.
Change your approach.
Yes…..Skeletons……I suggest you have a long chat and reveal ALL of them to your attorney…..
You pay your attorney to spin….and if he doesn’t know what to spin…..he can’t spin.
This is hard because your gonna have to admit them ‘out loud’…….
Your attorney won’t judge you……he’ll give you advice and deal with any of it as it comes up.
I will tell you my ex kept it all a secret…….and his attornies fired him, then the last one was made a fool of in court.
A FOOL……and this hindered his case 100%.
#1~ You MUST be honest with your attorney…..if you think it’ll come up…..disclose it to attorney!!!!!!!
Good luck…..YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!
XXOO
EB
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 9:24am
OxDrover says:
Dear Harmony man,
Sorry things are going to be really nasty, but that is the way it goes with a psychopath.
Now, I agree with ErinB, whatever your skeletons in the closet, from robbing a bank to messing around, TELL your attorney.
Then, tell him to quit being a pussy and GO ON THE ATTACK, there is nothing to win by just being defensive. I am sure she must ahve some skelletons in the closet too.
First off, you married this woman straight after your late wife died….have your attorney use that as an “excuse” of why she was able to take advantage of the poor heartbroken bloke. less than a year after my husband died I got involved with a psychopath looking for a “respectable” wife to keep his harem off his back.. His previous wife had finally caught him, and kicked him out, now all his GFs wanted to get married so he was in a rush to get married to me, so he could keep the “tramps” content with just the affairs. I had been so lonely and needy I just opened the door and let him into my heart. Fortunately he couldn’t stop cheating untiil he got me married, and I found out what he was doing. It broke my heart for months. Thank God I didn’t also have to divorce him.
Now put your big-boy boots on and get out there and stomp her butt! GO GET’ER COWBOY!!!!
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 9:34am
flowerpower says:
Hman…I agree with above posts. You are romanticizing pain.
Pony up with the attorney. You are in for the fight of your life. She will play it all dirty and you best be prepared.
No crying, you are NOT a victim but she will stomp you if you keep thinking you are. Get angry or whatever it takes to fight.Secrets are toxic and she will use them to poison you.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 10:05am
silvermoon says:
His previous wife had finally caught him, and kicked him out, now all his GFs wanted to get married so he was in a rush to get married to me, so he could keep the “tramps” content with just the affairs. I had been so lonely and needy I just opened the door and let him into my heart. Fortunately he couldn’t stop cheating untiil he got me married, and I found out what he was doing. It broke my heart for months. Thank God I didn’t also have to divorce him
Well Hell OX, I KNOW THAT STORY TOO! WoW! Only difference is I didn’t find out until after we Married. Fortunately, he forgot to get divorced in his hurry!
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 10:31am
OxDrover says:
Silver, well at least eventually your “marriage” will be null and VOID. I think at that critical point if I had been married to him I can’t imagine what it would have done to me emotionally., It hurt bad enough as it was!
But I’m rid of him and didn’t step into that BEAR TRAP and have to chew my leg off to get out!
Harmony Man, the tears for your friend are natural sadness, but Flower is right, you need to get ROARING MAD and activate your FIGHT sense! Don’t get so mad it blinds you to the truth, but DO GET ANGRY enough to DEFEND yourself with an aggressive stance. Good luck!
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 11:37am
flowerpower says:
PLEASE! Need advice on what to say at informal meetings to upcoming judicial candidates..reference books, articles,… to educate them to these types! How to speak intelligently for them to understand..we now have 2 public examples in the news ..others?
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 12:55pm
myboysmattermost says:
Two weeks ago, being counter sued for divorce for cruelty…pulled out all the stops. Don’t hear from him at all and then on Saturday morning, message from his mother that I am sick and a demon…yesterday he emails begging me back…no apologies, no regrets…WE have to work on this and despite it all HE STILL loves me…geesh…today, the love bomb starts….he misses me, loves me, needs me back, has to see me, hear me, touch me…WTF????
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 1:05pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
myboys – well, they are twisted little @#$%^& aren’t they?!
hmmm, now what exactly could he be after?? for you to stop the divorce proceedings? for you to ask for less, back down because he is SOOOOO in love with you? or did his mamma kick him out?
(I did email Donna asking to forward my email to you, but haven’t heard anything.)
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 2:03pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
Flower – have you emailed Donna and asked for a list of resources? She must have one that she uses when speaking.
(Report abusive comment)
Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 2:04pm
myboysmattermost says:
one_step…I sent you an email about 10 minutes ago.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 2:34pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
myboys – Will send someting by the end of the week. ty. I have a megablast virus at home and I am offline until there is a patch for the darned thing. I have been coming to the library to catch up on email and lf.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 2:38pm
kim frederick says:
Hi, One-step? How’s it shaking?
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 2:49pm
myboysmattermost says:
Great no problem. Sorry to hear about the virus, that is a pain!!
As for the stbx- I feel like he is wanting me to “rescue” him yet again…
“You are still my wife. Lets talk about doing things right this time. For the sake of our family please This is not where we were meant to be at this point in our lives. We need each other more than ever…”
Well, I don’t need him and I am proving that to myself every day! I do think this is where I am meant to be and he has been gone for five months! If I let him back, he would just be the same in five months (if it takes that long).
He has IRS problems, he is unemployed, house going into foreclosure, tons of stuff I am dealing with and I want to deal with him again too…?? He went to counseling ONCE – one time…one time fixes NOTHING!!
And my boys have made it clear they like it better without him. And what would he do with his mom?? Feed her to the alligators? I certainly do not want her back in my life for any reason at any time. I am even petitioning the courts to have her stay far away from my boys.
I am sure he is telling his mom one thing and me another, and he is willing to just dump his mom or would that be a problem down the road too…no doubt!!
I am still his wife, but not by my choice. My divorce was supposed to be final last Monday until he swooped in.
He sent the 1st email once last night and three more times this morning and then the second. I have a feeling if I continue to ignore them, the nastiness will return.
Plus he told his lawyer he has no interest in visitation with the boys yet now he loves us all so much?????
I am proceeding with the divorce…he can come back in three or four years and prove he is healthy and has really changed and grown and then compete with my new beaus for my affections!! I am not taking that chance again.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 2:49pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
myboys – can you block his email address? unless you need to collect his email for court purposes, I’d block his email address.
I changed eveything but my phone number (it was a business line also), but i blocked unnamed calls and both her numbers.
i have been practising my ‘hang up’ buttom push, in case she ever gets through to me. also a profanity or two.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 3:01pm
one_step_at_a_time says:
KIM! well, still without computer
but i got some money from welfare, so maybe i can get it fixed now. i have been trying to kick the damn virus, but it keeps mutating – everytime i go online to update my THREE virus protection programs it loads more crap I can’t kick. i think it has a keylogger, also, so i am afraid to type webiste url’s or passwords in. making things a bit complicated.
making some progress on a few things. have been getting up early in the morn and getting soem writing done, both work search and personal, and enjoying the quiet of the birds.
lots of pain in my body, and it’s makin me a bit crazy. but got shoes today so hopefully that will help with some of the knee pain. thankfully i have a good cache of pain killers. i would really like to get soem body work done, but can’t afford it. it would help so much. I did get some money from wlefare and friends brought some veggies, so i am okay for the moment. and that is great.
the computer says i have 13 minutes left. it may be lying.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 3:08pm
kim frederick says:
You sound so good, lately…I’m so glad. Glad also that help has been forthcoming. It helps us to begin to reaffirm our faith…..in something.
I don’t blindly trust anymore….especially computers…they have to earn my trust….I think you’re right, it MAY be lying.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 3:26pm
ErinBrock says:
Flower and others:
Here is a copy of my letter I sent to all judges/candidates running in the last election.
I got a very positive response and was able to speak to ALL the candidates at length, either in person or on the telephone.
GOOD LUCK!!!!
Dear Judge X/Candidate X,
As far as your judicial and legal experience, I would like to ask a few questions of you.
I know it may not be a common question about a common topic, but I so want the awareness to be in the courtroom and you have the forum to educate others in the field.
I would gladly place my confidence in you with my vote. First, I need to be assured that YOU ‘Get it’.
There are thousands of victims that pass through the courtroom that need help. It is important you are aware of Cluster B personality disorders and able to recognize the behaviors involved.
I am finding that most professionals in the legal field have no idea how to proceed with personality disorders, I/e narcissistic and sociopathic, borderline disorders.
Cases are looked at as black and white, and these personalities are not black and white; to deal with them as such, only confirm the behaviors and victimizes families further.
These people have no conscience. They have no ability to tell the truth. They are not blessed with empathy or compassion. They have no issues breaking the law, they live with entitlement, and they lie to you directly in the courtroom. They are masters at projecting their behaviors onto the victims. They ‘muddy’ waters, complicate issues to confuse people, this is the design. This is called ’splitting’.
Consequently to the judge, the accusations seem like they go both directions and judges shut down and punish both parties. This reality is helpful to the Cluster B person, and again harmful to the victim. The Cluster B’s are masters at portraying themselves as victims. Further more, Cluster B’s do not seek professional counseling, due to the fact that they will 100% of the time blame others for their behaviors. They are rarely diagnosed. Typically, they only enter counseling when threatened with the loss of ’supply’ or legally ordered to attend. The loss of a marriage, job, family…. we are only ’supply’ to Cluster B. They may attend 3 counseling sessions, under duress, and will not address any issues, because…..remember THEY do not have a problem. It’s US (everyone else).
So ordering the Cluster B’s to counseling is worthless.
A Cluster B disordered person will do and has done anything to destroy lives. They use all they have, money, children, assets and extended family etc… They have the mindset of; If I can’t have it, either can you. They will outspend the victim, because typically they have depleted everything the victim had access to, prior to coming to your courtroom. The victim has no way to respond to endless motions etc… They know this. They drained the accounts; they isolated and drained the victims.
Cluster B disordered persons are not authentic in any way. They live a masquerade, they are polished actors, although outwardly they are mostly productive members of society. Please do not expect them to ‘rise to the occasion’, just because you made a ruling. They do not respect authority, sometimes they are drawn to it, but not in this forum.
Cluster B’s break the law continually, most are drug or alcohol dependant. They live secret/double lives. They will not follow your orders.
At very least, if you make the harsh ruling, it gives the victims the legal avenue to protect themselves, their children and assets to start rebuilding their lives.
The public has the perception that Narcissists, Sociopaths/Psychopaths are all like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy type, dirty looking serial killers….. but do you remember Darrin Mack, Scott Peterson….. these men fit nicely into society, nice looking, good jobs, the appearance of good parenting, strong familial relations. Both were men most people would invite to dinner and have a glass of wine with.
Men such as these two come into the courtroom daily, they have family, friends, bosses bamboozled. They were protected and defended, but yet they are both exhibit classic disordered behaviors. How would you have handled these men, now looking back? If you were the judge, would you make changes in rulings, now that you are aware of the behaviors?
The victim and they’re attorney can deal with the Cluster B’s a specific way in court so as to ‘bring out’ the personalities so the judge can see the behaviors in a short period during a hearing, assuming the victims attorney ‘get’s it’ (I am finding they too look at it all as black and white).
My question to you is~ what do YOU do when you see this type of behavior in YOUR courtroom?
The courtroom is another forum for these people to continue to abuse their victims and get away with it. When judges are bamboozled by these behaviors, it only confirms the behaviors and it ups the ante for the perpetrator. It heightens the abuse and offers another forum to abuse with. I understand you must act within the confines of the law, yet there are things you can do to help these victims.
*First, clarity in your orders. Specific to a ‘T’ orders. When orders are violated and the victims come back in to court, and get assigned another judge, there is no question of intent. Punishment may be handed down, as specified by you in the original hearing.
*Please do not give them chances. This is the loophole in life they use to continue to victimize; it confirms the behaviors are ‘not that bad’. It is human nature to want to give chances…..Cluster B’s use chances as just another opportunity to exploit the system and their victims.
*Please listen closely to the contradictions and lies. They all have meaning. As a judge, you must know that if someone lies, there is something being hidden. That’s the part that is black and white. You tire of the lies, but please do something about it, let them reflect strongly in your rulings.
*Remember, they are not capable of telling the truth. The attorney representing them goes to bat on ‘their’ orders, their lies. Cluster B’s love this idea; they have someone lying on their behalf. By their attorney continuing their ’story’….it offers ’supply’ to them and confirms their behaviors.
*If you recognize a Cluster B personality disordered person, Please speak more directly to the parties in the courtroom. Don’t let the disordered hide behind the attorney. If you ask the parties a few ‘key’ direct questions, you will certainly be confirmed of the behaviors from the Cluster B.
*If they don’t answer your questions directly ……spot it. This will be an attempt to ‘muddy’ the waters. Please call them out on it. A Cluster B will try to run your courtroom.
I don’t mean to sound condescending, you are a highly educated and experienced person. If you have not lived with a person of this sort, you will not understand the devastation and avenues a Cluster B uses to abuse.
I never understood the bazaar behaviors myself…..until one day I woke up and it hit me like a ton of bricks. A Dr. brought this to my attention, and then I researched Cluster B personality disorders.
The decades of abuse, lies, manipulations, projections, splitting and deceit. It became clear, they do not experience love and feelings like ‘normal’ humans experience….they have motives. We are all a ‘means’ or ‘avenue’ for the disordered. They do not think or act like ‘normal’ persons. Yet, we stay in these relationships, we try to protect our kids, we do not understand. We think we are crazy (as they tell us), we try to change, we seek help, we think it’s us, we spend years trying to make it good, change approaches, appearances etc….nothing is good enough. We will never be able to make it ‘better’. They continue to abuse.
I understand, you have limited time in the courtroom, the dockets are full. You are not psychologists, But, these behaviors are really not hard to spot, IF you’re looking. You see them daily from the bench. You can move it along by shutting this person down on the first go around. No chances. Let them know by your rulings that they are not fooling anyone. You will not change their behaviors, but you will not confirm them and victimize the victim further.
Recognize these behaviors, be tough, stand firm with your words to the Cluster B and follow thru by your rulings. You have the ability to change lives for the victims of these persons.
It is very important that Judges recognize these behaviors.
It is important that Judges and attorneys are not only schooled in Law, but awareness of psychological behaviors that you see daily. Awareness is key.
You have the ability, as a judge to save the courts time and the taxpayers’ dollars by recognizing these behaviors early on, and not allowing the courts to be bogged down by these people and the behaviors. Once you have the evidence of the behaviors, you have the ability to stop the insanity.
How do you handle people in your courtroom who exhibit these Disorder’s?
How do you, within the confines of your position, stop the victimization to protect the victims?
What education do you have to recognize these issues? Are you willing to receive further knowledge on these disorders and how they affect your time on the bench and the parties in your courtroom?
There are ways you can make a difference. I urge you to seek information on Cluster B personality disorders and how this affects your daily work.
I would like to hear from you specifically addressing these issues in YOUR courtroom, and your approach, and how you feel you could do more to educate yourself to help the community, seriously affected by these issues in the courts and save the taxpayers’ money.
I appreciate your efforts and time, making XX County a better place to live.
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
X
**Various signs of Cluster B personality disorders~
• Can not take perspective; hence situations are blown out of proportion
• No empathy.
• Preoccupied with her/his personal distress
• Cannot accept authority and hence has little concern for morals or the law
• Will try to be seen as superior
• Lies, cheats and steals
• Hypersensitive, cannot accept any form of critique
• Exploitative, vain and not self-sufficient
• Amoral/conscienceless
• Care only about appearances
• Contemptuous
• Cruel
• Envious and competitive
• Feel entitled
• Grandiose
• Passive-aggressive
• Secretive
• Self contradictory
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 4:12pm
OxDrover says:
Dear ErinB,
The only thing I see “wrong’ with your letter is that it is longer than 10 words and unfortunately, lawyers and other judges seem to want the Reader’s Digest Condensed version of the problems. Can’t maybe you lop it down to 10 ords or less? lol
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 6:46pm
ErinBrock says:
Yes….it’s long….
But in order to have a conversation with a ‘voter’…..they are forced to read it…..
To know what I was saying…..
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 6:57pm
shabbychic says:
EB, the letter and the fact that you spoke with all the candidates are both very impressive. I am in awe of your strength and the time you took to prepare this letter and to prepare yourself for the conversations you had with the candidates. Bravo! You are fabulous!
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 7:20pm
shabbychic says:
Henry & Oxy, I have been reading some of your posts
that I copied and pasted to my journal last year,
and you are both fabulous too!
You guys are right on.
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 8:37pm
ErinBrock says:
CHIC:
Thanks!
I wrote it two years ago….after I received a flyer on my door from a judicial candidate.
I was heading to court in a few weeks and I had an AHA moment….and frantically wrote this out…..
I SOOOOO wanted to reach the judiciary….and maybe even ‘my’ judge!
It was the first time in my life I gave the judiciary election any thought at all……
I got my responses and sent out emails to EVERYONE in my area with my picks…..and WHY.
I found others never took notice of who we elected onto the bench either….
Pretty eye opening…..
It kind of took on a mind of it’s on……which was cool.
So….thank you very much chic….for the kudos…..I DO want to ’spread’ the word!
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Tuesday, 20 April 2010 @ 11:14pm
henry says:
Shabby Chic i have no ideal what I said yesterday let alone a year ago. Sometimes I go back in the archives and find some of my old post and I am so embarrassed at what I said. I remember feeling so much the victim and blaming my past childhood drama for the reason I got involved with sociopaths.. I even thot I was co-dependent or love addicted, maybe a touch of cluster B with a dash of histrionic. But whatever I was I am not that person anymore. I used to believe what ever a person said to be the truth. I used to be a people pleaser and thot kindness and compassion was the only way I could be. I have taken off my blinders, I recognize exploiters and people with bad intentions or not so good motives. I cherish the people that are good in my life and walk away from the ones who are not. I have learned to avoid the bad and live in peace with myself and let go of the burdens of my past that can not be undone..
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 12:04am
conomo says:
I love you Henry…So do you make me feel excepted…I know you’re of the other persuasion…Fricking gay??? It’s a hard life whatever way you look at it…My best friend many many years ago was a self determined gay man…he was 16…and never been with a man…so what…I loved him…he loved me…we haven’t been in touch since…so what????life goes on…
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 12:36am
conomo says:
Ok…it’s ok…I am the lone poster..cuz … I am not sure…cuz I am the drinker and poster…when I feel able….I am workin on that toot…but I will testify to the havoc that the “whatever you want to call them” does to a life!!!! As I said ..I am lucky…
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 12:40am
shabbychic says:
henry, no, these were strong, powerful posts that were not necessarily directed at me, but spoke volumes to me. I have been reading all the posts I saved because since I saw the S a couple of weeks ago… many feelings that I thought were gone have barfed themselves back up. Ha ha… I said barfed.
I’m feeling weak and confused, so I am re-reading the journal I kept everyday I was seeing him, in addition to many posts I kept from LF. It’s sure a sad thing to see how much I wanted things to work out with him, I twisted myself into a pretzel. I can’t ever do that again with anyone, I have to be me, not what they want.
Love your “This is a life lesson, please don’t fail it” and also you wrote once that they are like a tick on our ass! That was a goodie!
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 12:41am
shabbychic says:
EB… yes, the letter is great, and I am shamed to admit that I never know who any of the judges are that are on the ballot. I wonder… since I live in such a large city… if they would even see (or bother with) a letter from me. I should try it anyway!
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 12:47am
ErinBrock says:
Yes…..they would ‘give you the time of day’…..during election process…..
They don’t know your NOT alone with your votes….they don’t know ‘who’ you are……
They want to get elected…..so they will listen……
Be a tick on their ass!
I sent out the letter via email….with my phone number asking them to contact me……I gave the ones I didn’t hearfrom a week…..then I called THEM!!!
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 12:58am
geminigirl says:
OXY! Ive posted a blog to you on the thread,”Are they just evil people?”
Its a bout the South African lady from Cape flats who killed her Tik addicted son.I managed to find a sentence about her in the “Cape Argus” newspaper,{online,} and from that, I found out about a book,{not available on Amazon} about this lady, and Ive ordered a copy .
Her name is Ellen Pakkies.
Can you find my blog, and get back to me?
Thanks,
Love, Gem.XX
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Wednesday, 21 April 2010 @ 2:56am
Harmonyman says:
Hey LF, I havent posted since EB busted my butt..we have steady been working towards a strategy we have pretty much gotten most or all of my financial things together that S and her camel jockey attorney.. ( her attorney was a member of 2 circuses as a camel handler and rider in Alska before comomg toour small town. just opend up her practice in jan 09 about a month before she was hired) )my attorney’s plan is to show that I am not worth what she thinks I am and that she could only get 1/2 of what Ive got.. which really is nothing to sneeze @. When I was weak. and dammit EB I didn’t want to be rescued.,I was rescuing her.. I was in such a disarray that I thought god had brought her to me and my 8 year old son..I tried to and tried to tell her so many times I didnt want to get married ..I could not stand my ground long enough her continual persistence finally beat me down.. I gave in …she prepared a prenuptial her self(remember she’s worked for attorneys for over 20 years) which somehow convinced me everything would be alright! oh well! btw my attorney has amotion im place about the prenup.. his argument is that by the wording in the prenup she gave away all her rights to everything except alimony.. before and after.. we havent heard anything yet ..they r taking me back to court thursday to try aand get more attorneys fees , money for depositons. ect.. I am already paying her 3000.00 a month.. I am trying to remain strong ,I am praying to God that something is going to bite her in the ass…where is karma. when you need it! thank you for all your help..LF
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Monday, 26 April 2010 @ 3:33pm
OxDrover says:
Dear Harmony man,
Wow, you know I think I need to get married to you after you get out of this divorce, I promise I will be everything you want and mirror back to you anything you want me to say, and hey, I’ll settle for HALF WHAT SHE’S GETTING WHEN WE SEPARATE! Sorry—-the devil or EB’s sense of humor made me say that! I know it is NOT A JOKING MATTER! (hanging head in mock shame!)
Glad you are back here on LF though! Sigh, it won’t be easy though I can definitely tell you that. Even if she doesn’t get what she wants, she will do her best to destroy what you have rather than walk away and see you intact! That’s the down home truth, and it AIN’T PRETTY!
Take care and keep your head us and keep praying!!! (((Hugs))) and God bless.
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Monday, 26 April 2010 @ 3:43pm
ErinBrock says:
Harmonyman:
I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings….I was calling it like I saw it…..Take me for what i’m worth….(and my worth depends on who ya talk to).
YOU SOUND STRONG!!! I LIKE, I LIKE!!!
GO GETEM DUDE!!!!
This is the strength and resolve you NEED to fight a spath, stand up for your rights and protect those you love from further harm…..
They don’t play nice…..DON”T YOU!!!
Big hugs and more hugs to ya…..
XXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOO
EB
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Monday, 26 April 2010 @ 4:32pm