How do you help someone snared by a sociopath?
PDF Lovefraud recently heard from a woman who was concerned for her daughter. Here is her e-mail:
Currently, our daughter is married to a sociopath. He has taken us (her parents) for thousands and thousands of dollars, then turned her against us. These people victimize people and are somehow able to make themselves look like the victim. They have 2 small children.
He has completely isolated her from her family, including her sister. He completely hates me and has made me the enemy, for I started seeing through him. Do you have any idea how I can possibly reach her to make her see the pattern? This man has felonies on his record for scheming to defraud; he has cheated people all his adult life. I have found out many other disturbing things about his past that she is not aware of. I want to inform her of these things, however many people feel she won’t believe it. Like your sociopath, this one said he was in the Gulf War; he never was. Instead he went AWOL from the service. He said he had a masters degree in accounting, but he has no college degree of any sort. He’s had over 20 jobs and moved over 30 times. He is 12 years older than our daughter, has a terrible temper. We worry about her and the babies all the time.
What’s a mother to do? On the one hand, she sees knows that her daughter’s husband is toxic. On the other hand, her daughter is a grown woman making her own decisions.
Sociopathic manipulation
The woman’s daughter is being manipulated by a professional. Sociopaths gradually draw in their victims with flattery and half-truths. Then they hold on to their victims with empty promises or threats. Eventually the victims, confused by the alternating charm and rage, are emotionally off balance and doubting their own perceptions.
It happened to me. It happens to everyone snared by a sociopath.
The problem for me was that I didn’t know about sociopaths. I had no idea that it was possible for a man who consistently claimed that he loved me, to lie, cheat on me, and take my money. I had no idea such evil existed.
Friends and family
Sociopaths put a lot of energy into maintaining the charade for their victims. They don’t put the same energy into manipulating people on the periphery. Consequently, the friends and family of the victim can often see the deception when the victim doesn’t.
I think friends and family should speak up, in whatever way will get through, while maintaining a relationship with the victim. I also think friends and family should not enable the sociopath by continuing to give money or whatever else he is demanding. The sooner the supply ends, the sooner the sociopath will leave.
I suggested that the woman do her best to maintain contact with her daughter, even though the sociopath has isolated her. At some point, he will abandon her. When he does, I recommended that the woman not be judgmental toward her daughter.
I know the devastation of being victimized by a sociopath. Once I realized the truth, what I needed was not criticism, but the support of people who cared about me.
written by Donna Andersen • Permalink •
blueskies says:
Butttons – yes:)x You said: It’s all about control with the spath – simple, complete control, and this I will not allow. I am there. I wont allow. but its new to me and I havent got myself round it yet…or what to do after the ‘I WONT ALLOW IT!’…. I think its okay to keep going round and round for a bit until something more clicks in.x
And you go fight for your space to create! (your work). As far as I’m concerned, creativity is the most important thing we have as humans. It is the pure essance of humanity and the best answer to ‘why are we here?’ that I can think of. Its the key to all our progress and is f all to do with money.:)xx
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bluejay says:
blueskies,
I read your post, being disappointed in the woman who misled you about placing your child in the after school care program (where she works). Most people would be upset by her attitude, her behavior. Don’t ever apologize to her because you don’t owe her any apologies – she complicated an easy task, enrolling your son in a program, prolonging the process. She should apologize to you, but that’s not gonna happen. I hate when people are rude toward each other. Take care and try not to let her awful behavior get to you. She’s a jerk.
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blueskies says:
Definately bluejay:)x My internal reactions to this stuff, because her behaviour is so reflective of OTHER stuff….is what I really struggle with.
BUT I know…regroup. Pull on my big girl pants. keep calm and carry on.:)
Thank you for your supportive words:)x
And thanks for the opportunity of sharing.x
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OxDrover says:
Buttons, I have been where you are, with my oldest son C, who was influenced and “controlled” by the P-son, and I gave C the “benefit of the doubt” and he was also naive as well, so I let a lot of his choices actually be “blamed” on the Ps —his x wife, his P bro etc. but I came to realize that most if not all of his choices were because HE CHOSE THEM FREELY not because someone else forced him into them….
Wanting to SAVE my son, and HELP him like you want to help and save Mike is my “fall back stance” in my enabling. Unfortunately, when C lied to me, he crossed the line and I WAS DEVESTATED and fell into the emotional abyss of realizing what I had not seen, glossed over, trivalized, etc. and that is HIS JUDGMENT IS POOR, his impulse control is poor, he wants to “believe the best” of BAD people and HE IS AN ADULT AND IS NOT GOING TO CHANCE until HE sees a need or has a desire to do so, and he has SO FAR REFUSED to do either of those things.
While we are FRAGILE in our healing, and even lo these many years out, I realize I am STILL FRAGILE and don’t have the bounce back ability I once had, I think taking on the “helping” role for someone else is “IFFY” at best.
Last year this time I took on a homeless victim of psychopathic relationships. She was living in a small and I mean TINY RV. I let her come here to park. That was all I gave her in the way of assistance (nothing financial in other words) but before long she was eating my life with a large spoon, EMOTIONALLY and TIME WISE. Fortunately since I really didn’t know this woman,, I kept a CLINICAL DISTANCE from her but within a couple or three months I relaized she was a psychopath DOWN ON HER LUCK and was doing her best to get me to give her money or invest time wise in some of her kooky schemes. She cried daily about how others in her cyber connections were abusing her and ya da ya da.
She of course couldn’t take a menial job, she was trying to get a job using her creative writing skills, but when she was offered some editing jobs over the internet, she never finished them. The point is that nothing I suggested was implemented, and she was not interested in doing the things she had an opportunity to do.
Eventually, I realized the mess I had let MYSELF get into, and so after consulting by telephone with a friend of mine about it all, I told the woman that “she had not used the opportunities I had made available to her to advance her situation in life” (like no job, etc) and that therefore I thought it best that she move on down the line to where she might be able to find a place that would benefit her. I handed her $150 in case she didn’t have gas money to go somewhere she could safely park (never got a thank you) and in fact she began instantly berating me for ABUSING her! Refusing her needed medical care, dental care, and on and on. I pointed out that I had offered to take her to the free dental and medical clinics and she had declined to go, of course she turned that back to my fault that she didn’t go. It was an eye opener when I stood there and OBSERVED without emotion how a psychopath functions, and I realized I didn’t feel any empathy for her, because I KNEW THE TRUTH—but I also realized that my lack of empathy for her must be the way the psychopath feels when we beg and plead for them to stop hurting us. She was doing her best to get me to feel sorry for her, and SHE WAS HURTING because she had just lost her SUPPLY and she didn’t know where the next supply was comiing from.
I realize your motives to help Mike are PURE and unselfish, but Buttons, it will take a GREAT DEAL of energy that you may not really have no matter how much you WANT to help, or how much you FEEL FOR him.
At this point you are feeling that Mike is a VICTIM and that his father and P brother have used him (and they most likely have) but it doesn’t mean that he has not been a volunteer or that HE SEES A NEED to change his opinions, or thoughts, or choices. The woman who came to my farm had a CHOICE in how she continued to run her life, but she chose to remain in the same RUT she had always been in, even though she was not a “winning” psychopath, in fact she was a VICTIM of HERSELF.
I know what I am saying may not be what you want to hear Buttons. I kept on hoping too that I could help that woman, and that I could help my son C….and in both cases, I wasn’t able to accomplish either—because I can’t fix someone else and I am too fragile to keep on trying and not damage myself in the process. My OBLIGATION is to ME—and I have to concentrate my limited resources, energy and time on taking care of me FIRST. ((((Hugs))))) and my empathy and my prayers. And my tears as well because I know from whence your feelings come. (((hugs again!))))
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blueskies says:
Dear Oxy,
x I hope you are doing okay yourself.xxx
Just wanted to say hello:)x and to thank you for continuing to share what you know… whether it resonates immediately with us slow coaches or not right away, whether we are affronted or otherwise
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OxDrover says:
Dear Blueskies,
Yep “doing pretty good for an old broad!” That is a quote from a lady (forget her name) who was an Olympic quality horse show rider that I met once 30 years ago when she came to ride and evaluate a horse my husband had for sale. She kind of reminded me of Kathrine Hepburn in riding pants! I couldn’t wait until I got old enough to use that quote! LOL
Thanks for asking though! Life gets more peaceful the longer I am away from the psychopaths! I think that’s the key is keep away from them and keep the stress low!
Hope you are also doing well. (((Hugs)))))
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Buttons says:
OxD, thank you so very, very much for your wisdom. It makes sense and it IS what I need to read. If Mike is still a victim, it’s by his choice. I agree that defining him as a victim does NO good – it’s a label, and a convenient excuse. Time to pony up, Mike – time to get down to the business of growing the heck up.
Mike has to heal himself – I can’t (AND, WON’T) take that responsibility on. I’m not responsible for his current “condition,” and I don’t ever want that kind of power.
Today, we engaged in a discussion about interpretation – he chose to misinterpret something I said which gave him an “excuse” to fall into The Silent Treatment. He tried to defend his silence saying, “You don’t understand. When I get like that, I CAN’T speak.” Of course, I said, “Bullshit. If you’re in a bad mood, or you don’t want to talk about something, then SAY SO – I’m not walking around on eggshells because you chose to misunderstand something that I clearly stated.” Word games – twisting and mincing words – was a favorite game of the ex spath and, in turn, the spath brother. It don’t fly in Button’s house!!!!
The “bone of contention” was that he wanted “more time” to “adjust” to his new surroundings before he made appointments for dental and counseling. Bullshit. He AGREED to tend to those responsibilities, and there’s no “reason” or “excuse” to avoid them. And, that was the end of the discussion.
I’m still working on those boundary foundations and altering them as situations change. I refuse – REFUSE – to even entertain the behaviors that his spath father and spath brother do. And, I made this very clear, today. Yeah, I had my trigger reaction and I handled it poorly. Too bad – time to move on. Next time, I’ll handle it better, and the time after that, even better, and so on.
I’m with you, OxD – I think that we are forever “fragile” after enduring abuse of any kind. Every experience has to be a learning one, and I have to give myself credit for not going postal any more than I did! LOL!!
I must also guard my Self with tooth and nail. My energy belongs to ME, and if Mike isn’t interested in helping himself, then so be it. I offered him the option of returning to Virginia – his brother apparently “owns” a home (with no employment? HAH!) and has offered a “sweet game room” if Mike comes back. Throwing that option out on the table shut Mike up, mighty quick. When I asked WHY he wasn’t living with his brother, his answer was (quote), “The reasons are very, very personal.” Fine. But, he’s going to either take his emotional bull by the horns and wrestle it down, or he’s not. I can’t make him do it, and I can’t help him – only he can help himself.
When Mike is ready to put his feet on his healing path, we will be there beside him, but we’re not going to drag him out there and say, “Now, then. Walk and heal, RIGHT NOW!” LMAO!!!! And, as per his agreement, he will go to counseling whether he engages in it, or not. He can sit there and pick his nose for 40 minutes, but he’s still going to live up to his agreement. First lesson for Mike: YOUR WORD IS YOUR BOND.
Grrrrrr………tomorrow is going to be a productive day for me!
Thanks, again, OxD – and, everyone else who offered their sound suggestions and encouragement. This, too, shall pass.
Brightest blessings!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Buttons,
Yea, It sounds like the “the reasons are very personal” means that for whatever reason Brother isn’t falling for his manipulating. LOL
A couple of years ago some “friends” of mine who, frankly, had been mooching off me for years and off others as well, I let move out here in their RV and park on my land as well…but ended up about 8 months later having to tell them to leave too because they had decided that somehow THEIR NAME got on the DEED to this place and some how I was theirs to boss around—WRONG!!! Well, it had worked in the past so Ii can’t fault them for trying really! But the good part is that I LEARNED THROUGH them just like I did wsith the homeless woman, to SET BOUNDARIES and quit letting them walk over me. I insisted that they KEEP THEIR WORD, BE RESPONSIBLE and so on.
Mike is just testing the waters to see what he can get over with you. One of the things I did with my sons as teenagers was to have WRITTEN agreements, very SPECIFIC, signed by both parties. Re-negotiable monthly. And BTW it was NOT a “democracy” it was a DICTATORSHIP—I had the final vote on anything. MY HOUSE, MY RULES. I was willing to LISTEN but not allow someone to walk over me. I should have kept that up as they got older!!!!! LOL But we live and learn.
You might also point out to Mike that he is an adult and that you really love him but if he isn’t happy with the way things are at your house, you will help him carry his bags to his taxi! LOL
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Hopeforjoy says:
Dear Buttons,
It sounds like you are doing everything right in your communication with Mike. He knows that his decisions are his alone, if he choses not to schedule appointments, he still made a choice.
I have struggled with boundaries with my 23 yr old daughter. She has been a procrastinator with scheduling appointments and following up on her responsibilities. I realize we all make mistakes but I had to quit enabling her lifestyle. She asked me for a loan (she does have a job), to get out of debt and pay off her college loan. I will not co-sign a loan when she doesn’t manage her money very well. She has to learn these lessons herself. She likes to eat out and will buy things she doesn’t really need. Her apartment was too expensive and she wanted me to make up the difference. The old me might have tried to bail her out, not the new me. No way.
You have let Mike know that you care about him and are giving him the tools to take control of his own life, I hope he rises to the occasion. It’s frustrating to see them mess things up but they have to make their own mistakes. It might take him a little longer to get it together and a counselor will definitely help him get on the right path.
Glad to read your posts! Its nice to know you are out there. Hope you are making some great pottery!
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Buttons says:
After reading up on the “rules” article, I’m almost giggling through the morning. Mike has been taught and has learned that “rules” are for other people. Well, this old broad is finally getting the picture – and, he’s going to have to make his mistakes (which, oh-by-the-way, we encourage) and learn from them….or NOT.
BUT, the one thing that Mike is going to learn the hard way is that keeping one’s word is demanded in my home. If I say I’m going to do something, I will do it or have a very good reason for why I didn’t. REASON is not the same as EXCUSE. And, as it stands, Mike has no excuses and no reasons, either, for not attending to his responsibilities.
This is going to be a long, long, irritating side-trip. This is the first time in his life that Mike will ever be held accountable. It’s a new hurdle for him to overcome, but he’ll get there in the end, even if it takes a good, long while.
Thanks so much for your support, gals. It is so helpful to me!
Brightest blessings!!!
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OxDrover says:
Dear Buttons,
You have a difficult road ahead of you, to “house break” someone who has been so influenced by the psychopaths in his lives. Even if he is not a psychopath or high in the traits himself, he may not decide to live by the “rules” of responsibility.
I realize, looking back, that though my son C is not a psychopath, he is not always willing to abide by his word, or to do the responsible thing, and he will fall back on his USUAL FALL BACK PLAN, telling lies to cover up what he is doing. He will bury his moral compass, so that he doesn’t have to feel so guilty, because he makes someone else out to be the “mean guy” and so therefore it was “okay” to do what he did…ya da.
Thinking back through some of the things he did and how he acted when he was married to the psychopath, I realize that many things that they did as a “couple” I “blamed on her” but in fact, it was his choice as much or more so as hers. But, she did give me an EXCUSE for his bad behavior. LOL “he’s so easily dominated by that nasty witch.” NOT!!!!
It has been almost 3 years to the day since his wife and the Trojan Horse psychopath tried to kill him when he discovered their affair–but for the year prior to that, he and his P brother, and his P wife, and my enabling egg donor were PERSECUTING ME, and son C knew that—he knew what was being done to me was nasty, immoral and in some cases illegal. He may not have known that the ultimate goal was to kill me, I actually don’t think he did, but…who knows now? It’s something I will never know for sure.
For most of the three years after his wife and the TH-P were arrested, he was in a HYPER-alert state of PTSD, and he clung to me and His brother D even though he was living out of state for 18 months of that. When he came home, he was still so hyper-alert if I yelled at the dog while he was asleep 4 rooms away, he would hear me and come awake and ALERT and feeling terrorized immediately. After about six months that decreased though. He got back to more normal state of alertness. Less fear, went back to work at a job, continued to have a good attitude D and I thought, but then it started to go down hill as he put more and more time and effort and his money into his video games. While they may not be as “addictive” as booze or drugs, I think they ARE addictive with the “pleasure” centers of the brain…sure it is also an “escape” for him from reality, which is less than ideal for him, but it has become his LIFE, his ONLY interest, and far more important than the only relatives he has left (D and myself). The only friends he wants to associate with are people he plays video games with.
I am sorry that he has that attitude, but I can’t change his attitude. I can’t make myself or anyone else important to him, and I will NOT allow him to lie to me and still give him the benefit of my trust or assistance.
When we “help” someone, the idea is that that person will grow until they no longer need our “help”—that they will become INDEPENDENT. However, there are times when the helper can delay or even block the growth though by continuing to offer “help” when the person is making no effort to assume responsibility for themselves.
In Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus lays down a principle about people who “sin against us.” (and don’t repent of that sin) Basically a literal translation is that Jesus is saying if a “brother” after having been given several chances and being talked to refuses to either repent or stop this abusive behavior toward you, that you should treat them like a “tax collector.” In other words, NC, and the purpose of this is to show the sinner that s/he needs to change their way. It isn’t just to exile the person, but it MAY end up being that if the person does not stop and repent of harming you.
My son C was given every opportunity (each time) he lied to me and said he repented to have my trust in him restored. Unfortunately, the NEXT TIME he lied to me or helped someone else do something nasty to me, he was also restored to trust as soon as he said “I’m sorry”—-unfortunately, now, he has betrayed my trust so many times that though I can “forgive’ him (get the bitterness out of my heart) I can never trust him again. Some philosopher (I forget who) said “it isn’t that you lied that upsets me, it is that I can never believe you again.”
Buttons I hope that your Mike does become accountable—and that he DOES get there in the end. However I want you to write down 500 times and turn it in by the end of the day. “IT IS MIKE’S CHOICE TO BECOME ACCOUNTABLE OR NOT. I CAN ONLY GIVE HIM THE OPPORTUNITY”
I felt like a failure that C didn’t become accountable or truthful either…but it wasn’t my failure, it was HIS CHOICE. Since he CHOSE to lie to me, though, I CHOOSE not to trust him. God bless you Buttons! (((Hugs))))
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Buttons says:
{{{{OxD}}}} Yepper – 500 times!
“I’m sorry” doesn’t cut it with me – it’s hollow and self-serving. Now, if someone says, “I’m sorry I said ______ to you and that I hurt you,” that’s a sincere and acceptable apology.
What was so funny – humorous now – about Mike’s reluctance to engage in counseling was that he said, “I have to make an important, private call.” I replied, “Okay, to whom?” He says, “I told you – it’s private.” I responded, “I didn’t ask you what you were going to discuss, but you’re living in my home, and I am entitled to know who you’re going to be calling. I’m not preventing you from calling, but you have to tell me whom you’re calling.”
Well, of course, I knew who he wanted to call: spath brother. We believe that he has been instructed by the spath brother NOT to get involved in anything other than lounging around and doing nothing. Bullshit. LOLOLOLOL It’s predictable, now, and I’m almost finding it comical if it weren’t so tragic. Oy-VEY!!!!
HUGS BACK ATCHA, OxD! {{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}
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Buttons says:
Well, well…..it’s been quite a while – no internet and a move back to a place where I have family, friends, and a network of support. I only have dialup, now, but I’ll check the boards on occasion when it doesn’t take too long to connect! LOLOLOL
Mike has, for all intents and purposes, chosen to burn every bridge of support and help behind him after his return to his spath brother. The people who cared for him during the last 5 months of high school are now the target of ridicule and slanderous comments on Mike’s “Facebook” page. Of course, he’s posting outrageous things about me, but it’s the family that opened their home to him that seems to be drawing the most venom, at this point – this is all as a result of a report from the mother of Mike’s once-best friend.
So, to make a long story short, I shall now have no contact with Mike, either. I was fearful that this would be the outcome, but it’s truthful and must be faced with courage and resolve.
I went through a brief process of grieving, and I made some serious decisions to alter my whole life, make a move, and go back to the place where I was most comfortable.
For those who are just beginning to reel from their experiences with a sociopath, please….take this as 100% truth: a sociopath will NEVER change, they cannot change, and they will damage as many people as they possibly can with malice, with intention, and with a complete lack of remorse.
I cannot help a sociopath. I cannot cure a sociopath. I cannot help or cure the direct and collateral victims of a sociopath. The only thing that I can do is to remove myself from their line of fire and get my feet firmly planted on my own healing path.
Towanda, everyone….. Brightest blessings, and thank you all for having helped me through this dark, dark experience. Every day is a new day and a day further away from the intentional damage of a sociopath. What a glorious day, indeed. I’ve survived, yet again.
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bluejay says:
Buttons,
I have missed reading your posts. I’m sorry about what you are going through. You did your best, attempting to help your son get on a better path in life. Hopefully, he will take better care of himself, turning his life around. I remain hopeful because that is how I am wired.
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hens says:
Buttons It is good too see you here and feeling so powerful and positive…I wonder how many of us have bad mikes in our lives..yikes mikes…
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OxDrover says:
Dear (((((Buttons)))))
Darling you did the best you could, and taking Mike in and TRYING to help him was a futile effort, but wihtout giving it a TRY you could never have felt for SURE that you did ALL you COULD do.
So don’t beat yourself up for TRYING. Sugar, I did my BEST and I failed miserably to accomplixsh what I wanted to accomplish more than anyting—to save my sons from themselves. With P son it was a given that there was NO hope, and I should have accepted that a lot sooner, like when he was 17, but I didn’t. With Son C, he was collateral damage and dystunctional, not Psychopathic but for sure TOXIC to himself if on one else. He is also able to be in denial about his own bad behavior to excuse it, but I can’t change that, and I can’t help him because he is like Mike, he wants to do what he wants to do and doesn’t look forward to the consequences.
You gave it the old “college try” and that is all a jack ass can do, is the best it can do. There are just some things that no one can accomplkish.
Take care of yourself, work on things for YOUR healing, and just keep telling yourself you did the best you could with what you had to work with. Can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, no matter how you spin it, it is still a sow’s ear. ((((Hugs))))) and my prayers.
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Hopeforjoy says:
Buttons,
Only time will help heal this wound. I am so sorry to hear about Mike and his choices. They are his choices alone, you can lead a horse to water, and all that. As parents we take it as a personal failure when our kids make bad choices but it’s not your fault. Keep repeating that to yourself, it’s not my fault.
I’m glad you moved to a place where people can support you. It must have been hard to pick up and leave but (even with dial up), it’s still better to have a system of support to help you through the rough patches than to be without.
Know that you have helped me through some pretty rough spots and I hope that I can be here for you as well. You have a heart of gold!!! I have been posting less but still reading and I had been wondering where you had gone. Glad you’re still here because I missed you.
You are in my prayers tonight.
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purewaters3 says:
Oh, boy. Helping someone in a relationship with a sociopath — SEND THEM GOOD LITERATURE ON SOCIOPATHS. Slip these books into their purses, onto their car seats, on their nighttables… bookmark and underline with highlighter…
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