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Moral dilemma: Warning the next victim

Asian business man in mask, concept of hide, cheat, lie etc.Lovefraud recently received the following email from a reader whom we’ll call Alfred. The subject line of his email was, “A moral obligation?”

I’m two years removed from the brutal break-up with my ex-spath and all in all, can say I’m doing quite well and have recovered nicely! It was a LONG journey to get to the place I’m at and it’s a relief to be there after two years of continual obsessing and ruminating – I’ve finally reached the point where I just don’t care anymore. The shock of what I had in my life for 14 years has finally dissipated – the last emotion to go.

That being said, I know I still have some work to do on myself as evidenced by my need to periodically check-up on my ex via social media. I like to think I do so to stay ahead of the game but there’s certainly a thirst to quench my curiosity over what has become of the monster. Not only is he a textbook spath, but he’s also a crystal meth addict! I did a little online research and am now pretty certain that he is dating the person he was triangulating me with towards the end of our relationship. My dilemma is, do I warn that person? There are good reasons in the yes and no columns and I just don’t know what to do.

In the ‘No’ column:

  1. This person/new source was possibly knowingly having an affair with my ex with the knowledge that he was in a “monogamous” relationship so he’ll eventually get what he deserves when he becomes the discarded.
  2. My ex very likely lives a miserable life with few friends/subjects and is in a constant battle vs. his drug addiction – I have some fear about him harming himself as a result of any action I might take and I do not want to be or feel responsible for that.
  3. No Contact has been in place for a year and a half and my stirring the pot, even if I did it anonymously, could be detrimental to me and my continued recovery, as it’s likely my ex would know who was responsible.

In the ‘Yes’ column:

  1. Even though I won the end game (he got $0 from me after I discovered and exposed his drug addiction to his family and close “friends”) and threatened his career (he works with children!), delivering another blow to him would feel really good in many ways.
  2. The new “source” is quite possibly the naïve guy I once was who has been completely love-bombed and deceived as I was and as a good person, I have a moral obligation to try to warn him.

I guess what I’m really trying to figure out is, would I be doing this for myself or the new target? Any advice for me?

Think of yourself first

Alfred,

Congratulations on getting away from the sociopath, on maintaining No Contact, and on your tremendous progress towards recovery.

Many, many people write to Lovefraud with exactly the same question: Am I morally obligated to warn the next victim? Your analysis is thoughtful, and shows awareness of your conflicting motivations.

Here’s what I think: Your first obligation is to yourself.

Your primary concern is your own safety, recovery and peace of mind. If reaching out to the next victim puts you in jeopardy in any way, don’t do it. If the sociopath will retaliate, if you’re worried about being drawn back into the vortex, if just thinking about what to do triggers you, you probably should not get involved.

On the other hand …

But there are other considerations. One of the prime reasons why sociopaths are able to continue their marauding ways is because no one talks about what they do. As a society, we don’t talk about the fact that human predators live among us. On a personal level, keeping quiet about exploiters we know allows them to get away with their cruel, and sometimes criminal, behavior.

So I think that if you can warn someone safely, you should do it.

If you warn, one of three things will happen:

  1. The target will believe you and take your warning seriously.
  2. The target will not believe you, probably because he is being love bombed, and the sociopath has already convinced him that you are the crazy, psycho ex.
  3. The target will not believe you right away, but will remember your warning when the sociopath’s mask slips and he starts to see the exploitative behavior.

If you are going to warn, you need to be fine with whatever happens. If the target does not believe you, you need to be able to shrug and say to yourself, “I tried.”

Another possible option is to not do anything immediately, but wait to see if an opportunity arises.

Sooner or later, the new target will experience the sociopath’s manipulation, deceit and possibly abuse. At that point, he may reach out to you, and be much more receptive to your message. It may be a good time to talk about your experience, as long as you can do it safely.

Moral obligation

So do we have a moral obligation to warn the next victim?

As I said, I believe our highest moral obligation is taking care of ourselves. We are all on our own journey, and our top priority is our own learning, growth and healing.

But being able to warn another person may be a step in our own growth. We may feel that the best thing for our own journey is to take a stand.

In the end, to warn or not to warn a question we must all answer for ourselves.

 



57 Comments on "Moral dilemma: Warning the next victim"

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  1. kalina says:

    Doing the morally correct thing is not necessarily doing the practical thing. As my friends have noted “no good deed goes unpunished”. We, as the mighty who have fallen, have arisen as a result of seeing the world “as it is” and not thru rose colored glasses. Living with yourself is important so is “just living”. Be smart. Be aware. As the saying goes, high fences make good neighbors! Regards, Kalina



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  2. kalina says:

    Learning to let go, just say”no” and move ” on by”, are my mottos. Not feeling the need to be right, or correct the evils of this world, and to embrace what I have, not what I thought I wanted, have become my policies. I believe in re learning new guidelines to replace the old, worn out ones, is what my healing has been about. Not a day goes by when I forget to say, “Thank you Lord for giving me strength and a moral compass that I can rely on”. We are brought together for reasons unknown. Perhaps it is All just one big test. I try and focus on getting a passing grade and on not being the best in the class! Being good and decent are my values and they are easily made to provide the backdrop to most of my moral dilemmas. Thank you all for your support. This site is special to me. Regards, Kalina



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  3. BuBuSpidecky says:

    Easy. One word. Strike up a conversation with the next victim and when they get on the subject of the Spath, tell them “Beware, that’s all I have to say,” and change the subject. Say nothing else about the Spath. The Victim won’t listen anyhow. Yet the simple “Beware” will stick in their head and they will eventually contact you, that’s when you spill the beans.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Been Dealing with a Spath older Brother since I was born, and helping his victims.



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  4. kalina says:

    “Beware”, is a very considerate approach, I feel. Thanks, Kalina



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  5. carriesguns says:

    continuation of a chrystal meth addiction changes the brain, the personality, etc…i might guess to ramp up the psychopathic side of a sociopathic personality? (yes, i believe there often is that “controlled” slant)….you might simply use those parameters as a warning…as in bringing out the more negative behavior. lovebomb victims are more open to “bites”of info rather than overall “judgments”– sometimes. sometimes.



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  6. saneandfree says:

    I have thought long and hard about the question regarding the moral obligation of warning the new victim. My answer is for my situation and may not fit anyone else.

    My xnph was having a long-term affair with the much younger OW whom he has since married. My xnph and I were married almost a quarter of a century. She knew he was married when she met him. Her first line to him: “Oh, why are all the good men taken?” (Sigh).

    Although he wanted to be the playboy, leading a double life, she KNEW he was married. No matter what he told her, she should have checked it out on her own. Who wants to be a home wrecker?

    But, now, after so much involvement and lies and brain-washing by the master of illusion, she would not believe a thing I said about him. He has probably told her not to receive anything from me or if she does — to tell him. They are thick as thieves. He has her mesmerized, totally captivated. She is his new, shiny puppet.

    She allowed herself to be completely deceived by him. Nothing will break into her fantasy world until he decides to D&D her. Of course, it will have to come. That is who the PDs are. My counselor — who told me he was a Cluster “B” type — said he would stay with her until…until she doesn’t please him…

    He is a major malcontent. He is always raising the bar. I am glad I am off the stair-stepper of ever-escalating demands of his.

    She had no problem with driving him to divorce me, believing that EVERYTHING was his. She was willing to drive a homemaker (in her senior years) out of HER home, so they could feather their adulterous bed with my everything. That is heartless and ruthless.

    He took all my birthday and anniversary gifts which he had given me over the years as community property items in the divorce to GIVE TO HER. What kind of woman would be a part of that? I believe that they deserve each other. I do not feel any obligation to try to inform her of what she has gotten herself into. She fought long and hard to steal him, without a thought for me, his wife.

    There is an expression: “They made their bed, now they will have to lie in it.” No doubt the honeymoon is waning, if not over. What once was a bed of forbidden delight, is now just routine and will deteriorate into a bed of thistles, briars and thorns. It is part of the law of sowing and reaping. She may soon discover that she can never have real intimacy with him.

    I believe she actually did me a favor. I was miserable and lonely, in a loveless so-called “marriage” with no hope of ever getting out from under the gaslighting, lies, withdrawal, neglect, cruelty, silent treatment, emotional abuse, and pervasive caustic toxicity. I got set free by her deceit and theft.

    If she were an innocent victim, I might have some feeling of moral obligation to alert her. But, they were both treacherous in their adultery and betrayal. It was planned evil.



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    • AnnettePK says:

      Thank you for sharing the details of your situation and the basis of your decision not to try to warn the OW.

      Even though there are so many similarities in pathological love relationships, there are also many unique factors so that there is no one size fits all course of action regarding warning new victims.

      My ex Psychopath was divorced (not long) when he began targeting me. I had no clue about the existence of spaths so I framed his words and actions as coming from a normal man. I viewed the psychopath through the lens of my first happy marriage (I was widowed 10 years earlier) to an exceptionally good man. I fully expected my second marriage to be as wonderful as my first.

      I believed all the rotten lies the ex spath told me about his first ex wife and first marriage. As our marriage unraveled I figured out some truths and learned some truths. I wanted very much to speak to his first ex wife to get some clarity out of the awful confustion. By this time my ex psychopath was accusing me of most of the same things he had bad mouthed his first ex wife about, so I felt closer to her than I did to him.

      I considered contacting her through her adult son from a prior marriage (the spath’s step son), asking if she were willing to speak to me. I ultimately decided not to because I did not know how she would feel about it and I didn’t want to disturb or upset her. I discovered the spath is a crossdresser and a pedophile and I didn’t know whether she was even aware of it.

      You might consider letting your ex spath’s newest victim know that if she ever has any questions that you are willing to speak with her. You are right that she would not listen during the love bombing stage, and you are right that she does not have good character if she dated a married man, and accepted gifts of things that were given to you.

      When the abuse begins in the marriage, she may wake up from the trance and begin recognizing the truth about everything and everyone, including you. She may also realize her wrongdoing in getting involved with a married man. These days, it is not really widely taught that it’s wrong to get involved with a married man. Modern culture and media influence teach the opposite – that it’s fine as long as it’s somehow justified. Women are not taught that getting involved with a married man harms them and it harms the wife and family. Women are open to the lies the spath tells that justify their behavior – “my wife doesn’t understand me, my wife is terrible, my wife won’t sleep with me, my wife left me, we have an open marriage,….” whatever works in the particular situation with the particular victim to get what he wants. In my case, I was reluctant to date him because he was so newly divorced (within a year) and I thought perhaps they could reconcile. He told me all kinds of lies including that she ‘kicked him out’ when the truth was that he left her.

      You’re right you’re under no obligation to warn your ex’s new victim, but if you wanted to you could let her know you’re willing to speak to her if she ever wants to. She’ll remember this when things get bad and your experience could help her.

      Interestingly, I happened to run into my ex psychopath’s new victim when I didn’t even know he was targeting anyone, as I am no contact. She berated me for all kinds of things that the ex had lied to her about me. It put me on the defensive, but I was able to tell her the truth and I guess she actually believed me. Sadly, the spath then conducted a smear campaign on her and forced her out of a social structure that she was in. I felt for her. He is ruthless.

      You mention “gaslighting, lies, withdrawal, neglect, cruelty, silent treatment, emotional abuse, and pervasive caustic toxicity.” I sure can relate. One thing I learned is that there is no limit to what spaths could be doing and we victims just don’t know about. They are capable of anything.



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      • saneandfree says:

        AnnettePK: Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate how you handled it with the OW. Top notch. I rejoice with you that you have gotten the victory and to such an extent, that you have not only forgiven them, but you want to reach out and help her and love her. Now that is being an overcomer!!! Hallelujah!

        That is where my heart is, too. But…I have been restrained from entering in at all. It has been blocked. But, God has allowed me to see her, experience her person, and hear her voice under different circumstances over the phone.

        Thank God they live in another state far away.

        I don’t want to go into too many details about the encounters except to say that she is totally captivated, mesmerized and brainwashed. It will be a very long time for her to get out from under, if ever.

        One time she called my cell phone (we had never had any personal contact before) and I answered…I called her by her name, and, she went off cursing to him about me having her cell phone, why don’t I get my own phone, curse, curse, etc. I was stunned.

        One, I had my cell phone for 10 years. The cell phone she was calling me on was the one he had purchased to talk to me (way back when). They must have been stoned or drunk or something. When she went over to talk to him, cursing me out, etc. I could see the scene in my mind.

        Two, it was like she was a puppet. He put her up to making the call, trying to triangulate us. He loves for women to fight over him. And, he just kept talking to her encouraging her in her hatred of me and in his belief that everything in creation belonged to him, pulling her strings, reeling her in like a willing, dutiful, devoted fish. Pathetic.

        I don’t know if they knew I was still on the phone or what. But, that was eye-opening for me. We were still married! Here he was having his adulteress call his still wife. I could sense his sheer delight in the set-up. I was appalled. He still professed to be a Christian! Oh, right!

        I saw in that encounter how he had brainwashed her, trashed me, and was manipulating her like a toy, while getting sick satisfaction at wounding me. Lots of supply on that one! Truth is that I did not engage with her; I simply said, “Goodbye.” That is probably why he hasn’t tried that tactic again.

        God has been good to me in ways like that to let me get glimpses of what is going on behind the scenes — in small doses — because I would NEVER have believed it.

        So, as for ever talking to or warning her about things…he has her shut up and isolated from anyone who could clue her in. Been there done that. And her mind is so programmed that she would never let in any information that might be negative against him or contradictory to his narrative. He has her shored up hook, line and sinker.

        I am praying that God will reveal to her what she has done and what he is. I am praying that God will reveal to him what he has done. And, it is not just ordinary adultery. He has gone apostate. Whether there is any hope, I don’t know.

        I am not released from this situation, yet. Court battles drag on so that I am tethered, so to speak. I wonder if that is what this all about? Both of them getting saved?

        My life seems to be consumed with travailing for them, him mostly. I don’t want him back, God forbid. But, I hate to see anyone left like he is. So many sins piling up. I am praying that circumstances will so crush him that he will have to cry out to God like Manasseh.



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        • AnnettePK says:

          Thank you for taking the time to share more of your experience and journey.

          The new victim issue in my case was not so much a challenge to forgive. She was a new victim 2 years after I was done with my ex psychopath. He told her all kinds of lies about me and his ‘marriage’ to me, exactly as he had done to me about his first ex wife, so I could identify with the new victim pretty easily. He only uses women for impression management and because he thinks it will help him get positions of perceived importance in the society structure he operates in. He is not heterosexual in terms of being attracted to adult women. He does child porn, and I suspect gay porn. Like many spaths, he just uses sex for power and control, not for a loving connection and pleasure with/for a member of the opposite sex. Like many spaths, he really doesn’t have sexual gender, similar to demons which as fallen angels don’t have gender according to Matthew 22:30.

          It sounds like you have grounds to resent your ex’s OW’s poor choices, as it was cheating on your marriage and it was the catalyst that broke up your marriage arrangement. We are programmed to be monogamous, and it is unnatural to break the bond with our spouses, and it is natural to feel resentment, jealousy and hatred for those who break the one flesh bond of marriage. Matt 19:6 is pretty clear that no one is to do anything that breaks up a marriage.

          I don’t feel any obligation to forgive my ex spath since he has not repented and asked for forgiveness. He continues to lie, blame me, and who knows what else. Since he did porn for decades through 2 ‘marriages,’ and is a pathological liar, I doubt he would stop now.

          I try to turn it over to God according to Romans 12:19, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” That is God’s promise that He will administer perfect justice at the right time. My discernment is that my ex spath is not pardonable because he doesn’t want to repent/change and be pardoned, so I don’t feel a lot of enthusiasm to pray for him. From what I know he’s had a lifetime of chances and he knows right from wrong (He was a Baptist preacher for awhile.) I trust that God knows exactly what the ex spath needs to be brought to repentance, and whether and when he is unredeemable. If the ex spath has a physical problem that causes his evil behavior I trust that God will heal him at the resurrection and give him a chance to repent before holding him accountable.

          I do pray from time to time for the repentance of some people he manipulated into doing his dirty work against me when he was in the discarding stage. They should have known better.

          I’m sorry that you still have the court battles that keep you embroiled. I will pray that those resolve for you favorably and soon.

          God has heard your prayers, and he knows what is best for the ex. Consider that if you are burdening yourself praying for them, perhaps you are taking more responsibility for his salvation than you have the power and authority to bring about. God will give every person a right and fair chance before He holds them accountable. Only He knows what is truly best for all in the long run. Even God doesn’t force people to repent and do right. He gives us free choice, though He is grieved at the eternal death of those who refuse to stop doing wrong thus making everyone miserable (Ezekiel 33:11). 1 John 5:16 tells us that there is a time when we are not to pray for others.

          If my ex spath truly repented/changed, he would be a different person and I might or might not want to be married to him. I have no way of knowing until it happens and of course it won’t happen. I don’t want him as he is. I wouldn’t have agreed to marry him if I’d known the truth about his desire to abuse, his sadism, his pathological lying, his exploitation, his perversions, his desire for power and control, his lack of natural desire to provide and protect his family, and his general resentment and contempt of everything that is right and good.



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          • undertheradar says:

            AnnettePK

            You are so wise and knowledgeable and I’m so grateful for all of us on here to have your responses. Your explanation about not having a gender identity has finally answered some questions I’d had and the pennies kept dropping to all those situations that caused me confusion regarding some of his actions. Thanks for the clarity!

          • saneandfree says:

            AnnettePK, thank you. This is good to be able to share. It helps; and, it is a special blessing.

            I was moved to hear that your ex was and is into porn. I mean, grieved at heart. My xnph seemed to be uninterested in sex for so long, I just wrote it off. But, in the financial disclosure documents it was revealed that he had spent hundreds of dollars on stuff from Victoria’s Secret. I was stunned and devastated. He really had a secret life. The betrayal I felt was sickening and overwhelming.

            And, that was fast on the heels of another betrayal.

            I had been attending a church, was in the new member’s class ready to sign on board. But, I had a check in my spirit and did not. It was perplexing because I really liked the church and thought the pastor was phenomenal. He was such a family man, so highly regarded in the congregation, was a gifted Biblical scholar and sang bass like an opera singer. In short, it was the church I had searched for for a very long time.

            To cut to the chase — right after Christmas, the pastor resigned. The elders caught him using the CHURCH computers to view porn. Basically, they forced him to resign, cutting a deal where he and his family could stay in the congregation as part of the church family. Apparently he had had the problem when he came 6 years before. He thought he could beat it on his own. They believed in trying to rehabilitate him.

            I had just found out about my husband’s infidelity from our covenant marriage and then to find my perfect pastor guilty of such an egregious betrayal. My world was imploding and reeling.

            I left that church. I could not understand how they let him stay there. I guess I have not forgiven him. The indignation I felt was beyond the pale. The church has since fallen greatly.

            All that being said, what I am getting at — is that in some small way I can sort of understand your sense of grief, betrayal and unbelievable disappointment with your ex. Especially when you had enjoyed such a wonderful marriage and had such a good husband previously. What a stunning, wicked, cruel shock and betrayal.

            Pornography is rampant in the culture; but, that does not justify wrecking one’s home and life over it. Just because the masses are jumping off the cliff is no reason to follow. God gives us the ability to overcome every temptation no matter how strong. But, it is up to us to cry out to Him for help. He will. Some people just prefer their sin. They love the darkness.

            Apparently, — in hindsight, I realize that — my xnph has a sexual addiction. Well, that is just part of his problem. He is more addicted to power and control. In the end, what difference does it make? — it all took him down. How tragic because I never saw anyone with so much potential.

            I understand what you mean about praying for something we ought not pray for. We need to pray in God’s will. There is no question that my xnph is adamantly impenitent. His mind is upside-down and his heart is like granite.

            At one time, he professed to be a Christian. He memorized the entire book of Hebrews and the book of James. He is not ignorant. But, whether he was simply an impostor or is an apostate, only God knows.

            I feel led to pray as long as all this continues. Perhaps it is coming to a close and I can move on. All my times are in God’s hands.

            It has been a spiritual journey. When everything was imploding and I was in the fires of the crucible, I had the Lord. He will not allow more than we can handle and He promises to use it all for our good. He was with me in the fire of affliction. He held onto me with His righteous right hand. He has been more than faithful. I can testify that He is better than ten thousand husbands.

            At a certain point, I was led to read the book, “Hind’s Feet on High Places” by Hannah Hurnand. It spoke to my heart like nothing else. It was so special. I felt like I was on that journey climbing the mountains to escape the life of the Fearings, to get my strong hind’s feet to climb to the heights.

            When I look back over all this and the dark long valley, I can truly say I am grateful for everything that has happened and for every loss (it was all dross). What I had and was holding onto was just temporal stuff which was holding me back. I am so much freer. And, He truly does turn our Valley of Baca into pools of blessing.

          • AnnettePK says:

            Under Radar,

            I’m glad that you’re finding things here to understand things a bit more clearly. I have learned so much from others who share.

          • AnnettePK says:

            Sane & Free,

            My ex could recite from memory the entire 5th chapter of Matthew. James 2:19 comes to my mind, “even the demons believe and tremble.”

            It may be a blessing that the porn addicted pastor was discovered before you got more involved with that organization. It does not seem right that he was not put out of the church. He nurtured his sexual addiction and lied to the congregation in keeping it secret. This is not the same as one mistake that is repented of immediately and not repeated. If he were honestly trying to overcome his behavior, he would resign any church leadership position and put his energy into overcoming his addiction. God promises that he never allows us to be tested (Satan does the tempting but God is in control and only allows it according to His will) beyond what we can overcome (1 Corinthians 10:13).

            Only God knows a man’s heart (1 Samuel 16:7); but God instructs us to discern people by what they do and the results of their choices, that is by their “fruits.” A good person cannot bear bad fruit and a bad person cannot bear good fruit. We can recognize good and bad people by what they do and what comes of it (Matthew 7:16-20).

            People do evil and become evil through the choices they make. Thoughts become actions; actions become habits; habits become character. Spaths try to get us to focus on their words and whatever they say their intentions are; and on who/whatever they blame for their bad choices. Examining people’s actions tells the real story. It’s also helpful to examine how someone’s actions make you feel. Spath’s flattering words are nice, but what they do makes everyone feel terrible.

            We are responsible for our own choices; we are not responsible for any one else’s choices and salvation, no matter what. Most spaths put a lot of effort into blaming their victims for the wrong they choose to do, which makes the victim feel responsible for things she has no control over. Philippians 2:12 tells us we are to work out our own salvation.

    • NotWhatHeSaidofMe says:

      saneandfree
      So many in my community thought my husband was such a gem. And he was. To them. He dropped everything to do whatever they needed. But there was nothing left of him for me or our family. He was too tired to even work sometimes, so we hired a part time employee. (my error in assumptions, truth was he was tired b/c he was “helping” other women)

      In my community, I was thought of as having the perfect husband, he was SOOOO handy! In reality, I was doing much of the work that others gave HIM credit for, because he was busy with his IMAGE.

      After three affairs that I knew of (and many I found out about during my divorce), I used the last woman to get free of my marriage. Like you, the other woman was a blessing in disguise, although at the time, it was a nightmare. She thought she should have the fruits of MY HARD LABOR of nearly 20 years and that I should take a hint and just leave and go get a job, in my 50’s/sick/psychologically beaten down into NOTHING.

      People say the other woman is a victim too, but… unlike me, they knew he was married…. I was the one who didn’t know HE was with them.

      People thought he was SUCH a GREAT Guy! Well, if he was so great… he wouldn’t have put his wife and child through such a nightmare. And they HELPED HIM do it. (evil little minions.) Now they can be GREAT together! And I am GLAD for it because they Deserved Him.



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      • saneandfree says:

        Notwhathesaidofme: I am sorry for your pain. He is a bad person and you paid his bill. It is so unfair and cruel.

        It is grievous and bitter and hurtful no matter how you slice it. It is clear the buck stops with him for the evil-doing. He is a predator and a con, using people for his own selfish ends.

        When we are no longer “in”, but “out” of a relationship with them, we can see more clearly what they are. But, I don’t think that I, personally, will ever stop being shocked at their depravity. It is mind-boggling.

        Their “great together” as you phrased it, is all built on lies and quicksand and will be short-lived. It won’t be so great. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

        I just picked up a book to read, “Saved By the Light” by Dannion Brinkley. The author died and came back. In the book, Dannion relates his experience. Mostly it was about how we live in this life. He had not been a nice person.

        In the book, there was this statement: “Humans are powerful spiritual beings meant to create good on the earth. This good isn’t usually accomplished in bold action, but in singular acts of kindness between people. It’s the little things that count, because they are more spontaneous and show who you truly are” (pp. 20-21).

        When I read that, I thought how true that is! We are paving our tomorrows by our thoughts and actions today. Normal, good, self-aware, caring people want to be kind and good. Good deeds bless their hearts. Their lives get sweeter and sweeter. Their beings bless others. Their hearts enlarge.

        On the flip-side, evil, bad people — or maybe, just not self-aware people — leave a trail of hurt and destruction because of their selfishness. And, all the little wrong thoughts and self-centered deeds add up to a character, a lifestyle and eventually a destiny. Their hearts and souls shrink.

        Normal, good people have no protection against the selfish personality-disordered ones — at least not until they learn that not everyone is who or what they profess to be.

        But, bottom-line, we normal human beings are viewing life through a different prism then their myopic greediness. We learn to be more aware and cautious, almost to the point of not ever trusting again. We can heal; but, they are like rotten fruit, which only gets more rotten and can never be made good.

        Call it Karma, call it “sowing and reaping” — it will all come back on them in time. They will be held accountable for all the hurt, unkindness, cruelty, selfishness and destruction they have done. They eventually lose everything that is good.



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        • NotWhatHeSaidofMe says:

          saneandFree
          Thank you for your very kind reply. It has been years since I left him, and although the level of vitriole and contempt done to me by my husband’s women and their friends still brings me pain, I am much healed now. I made the decision to LIVE, and by doing so, I found myself and my humanity again, and I LOVE and care for others.

          It was the lack of reasoning that inspired me to write a “me, too” response to you… the woman who said “why are all the good men taken?” and she took yours. IF he WAS a GOOD man, he wouldn’t have gone with her. This is the logic I have always thought and why I never looked at a married man… geesh, I never wanted a man who was only dating someone else because that showed a lack of character that I did not want in my life.

          As I have said, I didn’t need vengeance. It was done for me just by him (my ex) being HIMSELF. He was his OWN curse.

          I appreciate your responses here on LF. Your words are so supportive and understanding, full of humanity.



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      • undertheradar says:

        Notwhathesaidofme

        Oh it sounds like you were married to my spath! I see the similarities in so many stories that it would appear that he had over 50 personalities – so many dysfunctions, no wonder we get pushed to the back of the line in the early days and spend the entire marriage trying to figure out why?…

        I’m probably repeating myself but, my spath was admired by everyone, even those that he was a stranger to and because he was so good looking and athletic – he has the “attraction factor! ” During the marriage I’d be quite jealous of the attention he would receive from other women but something changed when I discovered the truth about him. When we’d walk through a shopping center, while married, I’d be thinking “get your eyes off him, he’s mine” but since I’d had to assist the investigators and still spend time with the spath, it all changed to “he’s all yours!” Lol I’d gladly give him to someone else now 😉



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    • undertheradar says:

      Saneandfree

      I’ll sigh right along with you! Given the details of your situation I’d let them burn in hell as well!

      My spath (still debating whether to move to psycho but a whole other tread) had another victim so I felt very protective of her, she was younger than his own son so I considered her a child in my eyes – she never knew he was married until the final days of their relationship when he had no other choice but to let her know why he wasn’t ever going to fully commit. Of course there was a huge dramatic situation that developed between them as a lead up to the end, and I was watching the whole thing unfold using spyware without his knowledge (oh boy did I have the strength of titans during that unfolding) but she was an innocent victim so I spoke to her to try and give her the truth behind his lies…

      This backfired big time! When I finally left the spath, she was the first person he contacted and thanks to the continued feed from the spyware, I was fully aware of the words she twisted to her own liking to slander me – my bad!

      If I’d had my time over again I’d never get personal 🙂



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      • saneandfree says:

        Undertheradar: You are so right — the OW is just programmed to respond like a mini-him with spath-speech and thoughts. The OW is totally loyal no matter what facts argue against him. He would discard her if she were not loyal to the point of self-destruction. Best to stay NC.



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  7. undertheradar says:

    Saneandfree

    Yes…it’s best but…I’m so tempted to go in kicking and screaming!
    The pyscho has finally realised that im not coming back and has started the smear campaign and is also targeting friendships. I knew it would happen but I didn’t know who until yesterday. Trying to convince the people that he had the most to do with is hard – he played the devoted husband and father so well in front of these people! I feel sorry for them because I was just as conned as they were…grr! I’m almost tempted to take his allegations to 60 minutes myself, just so everyone can see the monster he truly is, but I won’t….



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    • saneandfree says:

      Undertheradar: I have a confession to make. There have been times that I wanted to gut my x-spath like a fish and eviscerate him. He deserves it, plus. But…taking the high road is the best way to — not only prevail — but, to see victory. Victory in your vindication and his ultimate destruction.

      I stagger to think about all the lies, slander and malicious smears my x-spath has used. On numerous court documents, in court. The lies were overwhelming — like water rushing out of a fire hydrate, full throttle. My soul was crushed and I feared for my survival. How could I compete against such underhanded outrageous slander? Especially when he looked so “good” and was such an accomplished liar?

      Early on I was convicted that if I wanted God’s help (and I did!) I could not retaliate or even try to vindicate myself. What? Yes. No screaming, “I’m innocent — he’s a LIAR!” It was really useless to try because I am no match for his evil. He lives and breaths it. It is his domain.

      I have cried out to God everyday for my vindication and for the exposure of my x-spath’s lies and character, that the truth would come out. This hell started early 2011, so it has been of long duration. Sometimes the lies, slanders, court documents were so formidable that I thought I was surely destroyed and ruined. At times, it looked like check and mate.

      I think I will write a book about it eventually.

      My point is that I did not return evil for evil, or railing for railing. I trusted in the goodness of God to defend me and that good triumphs over evil. This is not just a pretty platitude. It is fact.

      One day when I was crying out for God’s favor and for shame upon my x-path’s head (that is Scriptural), I was led to write down all the recent deliverances I had experienced.

      I wrote in bullet point with a list of what he tried to do and what ended up happening. It was 8 typed pages with over 50 points. And, not small ones. For instance, he tried to divorce me from another state by surprise attack, stripping me of all funds, leaving me to be frozen out of my home in the dead of a NY winter. Didn’t happen. The whole thing was thrown out. He wasted his money on that lawyer. That’s one.

      He tried to divorce me on grounds of abandonment. Ha! Excuse me? He was living in another state with his — whatever you want to call her. In the end, I divorced him on grounds of cruel and inhumane treatment and adultery. Comment: he was beyond beside himself on that turn of events. But, he still doesn’t get it!!! He is still railing, flailing and blaming…

      That is what I meant by good triumphs over evil. He brought the shame, disgrace and consequences upon his own head.

      They want to attack and hit hard and where it hurts the most. To weaken us. We must press past it all, let the garbage flow off onto the ground. They will try to turn people against us, even our family, friends, lawyers and judges. If we get into a cat fight with them, they win because they can fight dirtier. A pig loves to wrestle with you in the mud, but you are the one who gets covered in mud.

      If people believe the lies and “leave” you, so be it. They weren’t friends. Many people in my life have fallen away. Friends, neighbors, my 1st lawyer. But, in the end, it was no loss to me. I just discovered who and what they are. May I say, “Good riddance!”?

      I am still standing and can testify that the only way to truly win is to let this garbage just fall off…and just take the high road. When all the dust has settled, you will still have your integrity, honor and can hold your head up high. He will destroy himself with all his schemes. Just give it time.

      Batten down the hatches, expect all hell to break loose. It will. But, you will survive this with flying colors and have a GREAT story to tell and maybe write about…



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      • NotWhatHeSaidofMe says:

        saneandfree
        I love your pig reference. It’s nearly the same as advice my friend gave me:
        About mudwrestling…Never wrestle with a pig. You BOTH get dirty. And the Pig likes it.

        I have been divorced three years now but my ex is still at his games. But I no longer take it personally now so while he can still create havoc, it doesn’t make me want to die anymore.

        If there is one thing that I can advise people who have been trapped in a LOVEFRAUD by a sociopath, it’s that YES, they are IN HELL. But unlike their abusers, they can chose to go THROUGH it. And on the other side is a feeling of freedom and joy that no one can ever take away.



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        • saneandfree says:

          Amen, NotWhatHeSaidofMe. So true! If we find we are going through hell, we just need to keep going. It is just a blip in the road.

          It is astonishing that they NEVER quit with the games and schemes. What a life. 🙁



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        • AnnettePK says:

          Speaking of pigs, “Don’t give your pearls to swine” (Matthew 7:6) makes a good case for no contact with an abuser.

          Spaths want us to lower ourselves to their level, to ‘fight’ them, to defend ourselves, to feel the same anger, resentment, hate, and desire for vengeance, that they feel.

          A dear older lady in my church once confided in me that she had prayed for vindication with respect to her ex psychopath abuser and his OW, and when they both died young she knew her prayer had been answered, but she said she regretted it. Nice people usually don’t feel satisfaction at others’ suffering and demise, because it’s not our nature.



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      • undertheradar says:

        saneandfree

        Sorry for taking so long to respond but we’ve got a time difference going on here as I’m in Australia – the so called “lucky country”…not! It’s just as full of spaths as any other country and I seem to be able to attract most of them…

        Oh the attitude! OMG THE ATTITUDE!!! My mind boggles so much I have to say it twice. The arrogance that goes along with their attacks is what confused me for so long. He was always so angry with me that it appeared to be true. I can see your spath doing the same thing. Going at you as if it’s the truth, acting out their sinister plot with the conviction of a victim that wants to right the wrongs? It’s crazy how real a lie can look! I’m an “actions speak louder” person so when he wanted to pull me down, isolate and destroy my confidence, he did it with such arrogance that I was confused into thinking it was the truth – does this make sense?

        I also believe that good triumphs over evil – that dog will get his day and that day is slowly approaching. Your idea to write a bullet point list of deliverances is a great idea and something I’ll do tonight. I do believe that I always land on my feet and that I’m protected from above so I’m just waiting to see what my “beliefs” will manifest as this time – the future is scary but it’s also liberating and I know that one day I’ll be able to look back on all of this with a smile 😉



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  8. serenity12 says:

    I had the opportunity to warn my ex’s new victim(that he was cheating on me with) He wrote me texts and emails saying he wanted me to cook him dinner and have sex (how charming) the next day I saw a girl getting out of his car at a grocery store… I approached her and she said they had been dating for a year!! (we split 6 months prior so that math didn’t add up) I showed her texts, emails, and told her the whole story right there in the parking lot. I even said, do you want to have him face to face with both of us because he WILL lie about this… She said “No I have a pretty tough head on my shoulders” Later that evening he called me in tears saying he just can’t behave properly in relationships and loses everyone….

    The next day I received an email that she was obviously BCC’d on saying I was completely crazy, stocked her and made up the emails and texts and that they were fake…. and then told all of our mutual friends the same….that was almost 2 years ago and they are still together…

    So was it really worth it? The outcome had no difference either way. And I just ended up looking crazy and feeling bad about myself. I think about myself and how many people warned me. I kept thinking it would be different with me and that I would be the one to change him. She is thinking the exact same thing.

    Whatever I got a huge job promotion and moved to Europe a few months later…C’est la vie!! I could care f$”king less now… I have bread, cheese, and wine.



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    • saneandfree says:

      Serenity12, This is such a perfect example!

      You tried to do good to try to warn a person who was another victim. She told him. He re-grouped, played the “pity-me” card with you, and shored up his present source. He twisted all the words, scrambled what really happened into nonsense so that it looked like you (!) were the liar (shifting blame) so he came out looking sweet, kind, pitiful and soooo wronged. And, she got in deeper and more entangled. You came out looking like, instead of a do-gooder — a mean-spirited, crazy, vindictive sour-grapes cast-off. It was all so CLASSIC spath behavior!!!

      Oh, well. You tried. Your conscience is clear. And, looks like you were rewarded pretty good!!! New better job in EUROPE. Ahhh. And, him: still the same (with more guilt) — maybe a little more skilled in his manipulations…and the poor girl just wasting more of her life and setting herself up for more pain and abuse and the eventual discard. Such is life with a spath. 🙁 Wash, rinse, repeat.



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    • AnnettePK says:

      When his new victim experiences the abusive stage and wakes up to what is happening to her, she can remember what you told her and it may help her think clearly and make good decisions to protect herself, despite his gaslighting. Telling her your experience and the truth about him didn’t do any good at the time, but it is in her mind and may help her later.



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      • undertheradar says:

        I agree with Annette (again – wise woman that she is!)
        I planted seeds by just sending an email to several women that said ” you might want to keep this for the day you have questions that need to be answered” and added the date my spath and I got into a committed relationship and when our marriage ended. This was so they knew that he was married the whole time he was love bombing them.
        I never received a response but I knew that someone had said something to the spath by his attitude. One day I know one of them will ask me why…



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    • undertheradar says:

      Serenity

      Enjoy your new experiences and have a wine for me!



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  9. stronginthecity says:

    I am reading here again as I believe my ex is stalking me again and back with the ex wife that he told me he would kill .
    I am beside myself and trying to figure things out for me and not for him or any of the unknown people he would triangulate and confuse me with
    The so called master is being called out by me his creepy family and his own children so I’m reading up on things so I don’t fall into any of the drama.
    Stronginthecity



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